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AP
Republican presidential candidates former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and Texas Gov. Rick Perry.
TAMPA, FL -- While Social Security was widely expected to dominate this debate in retiree-rich Florida, entitlement reform took a back seat to other issues on Monday as Republican candidates engaged in the most aggressive GOP slug fest since Rick Perry entered the race.
Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum teamed up to skewer Perry on his support of mandated vaccination of girls against HPV, a sexually transmitted disease known to cause cervical cancer. In the debate last week, Romney offered an olive branch to the Texas governor, saying that Perry's "heart was in the right place" on the issue and he should consider his poor handling of the legislation "a mulligan." But Bachmann, largely quiet for the first half of the debate, did not offer such a pass, lambasting Perry for forcing government "injections." She also shone a national spotlight on a story that has simmered in Texas for years -- that Perry's chief of staff worked for the company (Merck) that manufactured the vaccine.
Santorum chimed in to assist. "He's saying that his policy was right," he said. "He believes that what he did was right. He thinks he went about it the wrong way. I believe your policy is wrong."
Team Bachmann viewed the exchange as enough of a success to warrant an email fundraising blast highlighting it less than two hours after the debate's conclusion.
The Tea Party-heavy crowd applauded both of Perry's rivals, but it saved its harshest response of the night for Perry's explanation of Texas's policy of offering in-state tuition to the children of illegal immigrants who are working towards citizenship.
As Perry explained: "If you've been in the state of Texas for three years, if you're working towards your college degree, and if you are working and pursuing citizenship in the state of Texas, you pay in-state tuition there. And the bottom line is it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is. That is the American way -- no matter how you got into that state, from the standpoint if your parents brought you there or what have you."
That statement drew raucous boos from the audience and a bewildered reaction from Perry, who generally thrives in encounters with national Tea Party audiences.
The boos turned into applause when Bachmann pounced on the comment: "I think that the American way is not to give taxpayer-subsidized benefits to people who have broken our laws or are here in the United States illegally. That is not the American way."
It's worth noting that these two issues have long caused some uneasiness with Tea Party conservatives in Perry's home state. (see:
Medina, Debra). The Statesman's Jason Embry points out that Kay Bailey Hutchison used the HPV/cronyism argument against Perry in 2010. Palin (of "crony capitalism" slams) campaigned for Perry in that race.
But now we're seeing them on the national stage, and -- at least here in Tampa -- it wasn't pretty for the governor.
Leave a Comment:
You know you're in some serious trouble when well respected Republican strategist 'Tweets' this about you:
Astounding someone who is so anti-gubment - would FORCE teen-age girls to be vaccinated against STD's...
Follow the money, always follow the money...
What ever happened to abstinence only?
You know it's worked out SO well in the Palin household... lol
Who calls you Feisty? Who gives you the tab that a new article is coming? You do realize if this were a publicly traded company it would be called insider information... LOL.
It's unfortunate for President Obama that he has set the bar so low in terms of his job performance.
Almost anyone can claim the ability to achieve more, and be credible in doing so.
What kind of cheese would you prefer with your whine?
Remember all the high expectations for this guy? Every speech he delivered was to contain profound and mystical answers to the ills that faced the country. 3 years in, Obama speeches are all the same, lets spend more money, and it's all the Republicans fault.
Looking at the damage Obama has done is like wondering if a chimp had a machine gun.
Feisty,
I think they usually like limburger on hardtack with a jug of Thunderbird. It's that special combination of aromas, y'know, with the scintillating quality of screw-cap jug wine, and the bets they get to place about who breaks the first tooth on the maggotty crackers. Winner gets some extra limburger.
Perry's real problem is the "crony capitalism," more than anything else. When it's combined with a state mandate to boost sales of the vaccine - not out of concern for the girls' health, what a cynical crock that is - there's serious concern about misprison in office. More such sweetheart deals are going to come out - he's cut a load of them that we already know about.
I'll give Ron Paul some points for integrity last night, although as far as I'm concerned his basic platform is right out of the loony bin. By contrast, Perry and Romney both are now exposing themselves as snake oil salesmen with no integrity at all.
And it was not $5000 that he received for campaign contributions from Merck - more like $30,000. So Perry was offended that Michelle accused him of doing this for money - but he says he is offended if she thought he could be bought for $5000.
So how much can he be bought for - since $5000 isn't enough? Only $30,000! Yes Perry can be bought - hurry up lobbyists!
Actually John A, I like colby jack. Maybe the entitlement class of people that dems love so much would prefer Thunderbird... you must have me confused with someone with your ideology. I happen to like Zinfandel. Could be Thunderbird is all you are familiar with.
You are wrong about Perry. His biggest problem is that he's a New World Order person. He has personal ties to the Bildenburgs.
Fiesty - did you have to give a snappy answer back to me? Didn't you recognize the LOL at the end of the statement... that would indicate it was a joke.
Isn't it amazing how when we're discussing an article about Perry, all the paid troll tea people GOP republicans can do is stutter and say, well well Obama is bad.
Feisty
so happy the country is getting a chance to know my governor as we Texans know him. I knew he would stumble when confronted about something if he had not been briefed before hand. One thing you said:
maybe someday someone will ask Perry why Texas has one of the highest number of teen pregnancy's, oh and the distinction of the highest in repeat teen pregnancy.
Perhaps it has something to do with the number of people in Texas that live in poverty, or maybe the 66% graduation rate has something to do with it. I dunno!
Mixed re It's unfortunate the President has set the bar so low, in terms of job performance, that almost anyone can win. Almost anyone, perhaps but not this mixed bag of losers the GOP is running. LOL. Now the GOP is faced with a very real threat. The reason for all the drama on the jobs bill is so America can see the GOP obstruct this latest jobs bill. You know it's not the first one they've filibustered or killed. Time for them to stop trying to beat Obama and start trying to help the country.
Did anyone ask Romney to expound upon his "mulligan" philosophy of governing?
There goes the so-called Republican 11th commandment. Welcome to prime time, Governor Perry.
You guys on the left are just way too concerned about what the right is doing. Tell me, is it fear... or is it something else? Geeeezzzz - this is only the preliminary... the way you act reflects a real concern about who is going up against Obama. If you weren't so worried about how Obama is going to do, you would totally ignore what any of these candidates are doing. I couldn't care less at this point what Romney said about Perry, or how Bachman cooks her hamburgers... or a blimp is over her tent. What difference does all that make at this point?
Brianb -- educated voters want to know what their choices are. You are posting on this site all the time -- does that make you a "guy on the left?"
Four years ago the so-called front-runners for the GOP at this time of the election cycle were Fred Thompson and Rudy Giuliani.
Rather than let the pundits pick the candidate, maybe we should let the voters do so?
Brianb, every American citizen should be fearful of what the "right" is up to, and what they has already done, but don't worry most are not which is why we are in dire straits as a nation and society.
Brianb---it is called love for our country and wanting what is best for it. If you and your colleagues on the right are correct, President Obama has no chance of being re-elected. In that case, one of these people would be the next President---I would want to know how they handle themselves in public and what their past can tell us about their future behaviors.
If my liberal colleagues are correct and the President will be re-elected, well---it is kind of intesting to watch them turn on each other.
Its only educational for you the voters that havent made up their minds. Which posters on this site havent already made of their minds--please just name me one. Its really condescending to explain to us that its for love of country as if us fiscal conservatives dont love our country. I wonder if you took a vote from the military those that are willing to die for this country and if Obama would win? Kind of doubt it dont you think? Maybe us fiscal guys love our country too just disagree with the path Obama has taken us--its not personal just because Fiesty is bigoted dont put us in the same category.
@Kirk...
AMEN BROTHER!
Educated voters my A$$! Did you see the line above? "knowing your choices"... Like any of the liberal loons on this site would even consider voting for a GOP Candidate...
What liars!
Let me rephrase it a bit. The left is so bound up in ridicule over these candidates... Not a single thing you say filters back to them. Unfortunately the amount of put downs, the open snarkiness, the ridicule in general only make you look very weak. If you were to speak in intelligent fashion, removing the slang like "tea potty," "repukes," and a various number of other names, your case would be better spoken, don't you see that?
I don't spend my time ridiculing Obama... the things I post about him are the obvious... it would be completely immature of me to use a slang for his name such as Obummer, or O bla bla... I realize a lot of posters on the right do that, but I consider them immature as well.
Kate - no it doesn't. I'm just tired of all the immature remarks... the left can do much better than that. Why resort to name calling?
w bush - you can say the same thing about the left. There are many things to be "fearful" of when it comes to their liberal ideology.
Steeler Fan - again, it's all the ridicule and name calling that's getting over the top. If the left is serious about wanting to discover these candidates, they should stop the ridicule. You may not agree with their policies... state that. You may not like the way he/she combs their hair... good... just stick to the reality instead of the drama... and if you joke about someone... state that it's a joke so some of the left/right tension will get back to normal levels.
Kirk - I haven't made up my mind yet. I can't stand Perry or Romney. I am hoping for a dark horse that will provide much clearer answers and a true leadership role to step forth. It's a complete shame that this country is stuck with only voting for dems or repubs. Anyone else doesn't stand a chance.
Kirk---I was not suggesting that conservatives don't love their country---I think that is one of the things that unite us. And I suspect that the military is divided as well---some of them probably like the President and some don't. I've seen pictures of the President with troops who are obviously glad to be meeting him & shaking his hand.
brianb---you are right that there is too much ridicule and name-calling here. Each side would probably point a finger at the other side. For myself, I try to use a person's proper name and title.
What do you think Brianb, I am still toying with the idea, should I throw my hat in the ring as a republican, do you think I could be the darkhorse. I am fairly fiscally responsible my personal finances are in pretty good order, I raised a nice family and have those values, I never send pictures of my pecker over the internet or anything like like that. Almost all of the money I would spend would be right here in the states, so guys like you who know how to build things can build things, things we need, no building a bridge, then building a river to go under it. If you think I got a shot I will discuss my platforms in more detail.
Well Forrest - a lot would depend on your VP choice. If you chose say... Cameron Diaz, you might have a great chance. She may not know alot about politics but she would add the beauty to your campaign. Remember if you do decide on running, you'd be up against New World Order Perry, or Romney and his plastic electric band.
If the ultimate occurs and you are forced to move to Pennsylvania Ave... I want a top spot in your cabinet... you can make me construction czar or something like that.
Brianb, well said post and I have tried to say the same thing over and over but seem to fall on deaf ears. Probably not saying it as articulate as you. I am fine with Romney but I probably like Christie better. I like Guilianni but he is unelectable as a GOP candidate. I am interested in how Rubio or NickI Haley does on a national stage. I actually liked some the democrats prior to 2008. I thought Kerry wasnt as bad as the GOP labeled him although kind of stiff. Loved Clinton hated Gore but not a big Hillary fan.
Forest, can I be the ambassador to Italy?
Cool I got a construction Czar, and an ambassador to Italy. I know Brian can work with his hands, can you talk with your hands Kirk cause you will need that skill as our Ambassador to Italy. I don't think I can get the Cameron Diaz thing past Mrs. Grump, she would feel better if I went with maybe say Betty White.
Forrest, not only can I talk with my hands, I can talk out of both sides of my mouth which should be very helpful in a political position. I am sure my wife would have the same issues as she is half Italian and knows that I have a thing for Italian women.
I worked in Ca. for a decade as a landscaper Brian and one thing I can tell you from those days is that just because I was not afraid of Rattle snakes and scorpions did not mean I would ignore or turn my back on them. Same applies to the GOP. LOL The difference all this makes is they are showing their true colors. I love to see them fall on their own swords by their own tongues. I can't wait to see if they fall into the Presidents jobs bill trap. Should be very entertaining. LOL
Leona. So if he always tells the truth can you tell me why he reversed his stance on Social Security when he realized it was un popular? = )
In my prior post about rattlesnakes and GOP I failed to mention I feel pretty much the same about the Democrats and I consider the T P'rs as much more of the same.
Could someone explain what Gov. Perry's "mandatory" program involved? All innoculations given to children have to have a parent sign, explaining that the parent understands what side effects may be involved, etc. Were the Gardasil shots (all three?) given during school time by a school nurse, or were they administered at clinics that parents took children to? Were they part of the required shots that students need in order to attend school? (like meningitis?) As noted before, Rep. Bachmann was really milking the rhetoric on her objections, calling 11-year-old girls "little girls," and calling the innoculation "government injections." To what extent is she correct?
Kate,
I would like to know the answer to those questions as well. Also was this vaccine approved by the FDA, and was it recommended by the FDA. Further, was there an option for the parents to refuse the vaccination?
As far as Rep. Bachmann I believe she is grasping at straws hoping to get some traction. As a conservative republican I can assure you that Bachmann will not be the republican nominee.
Interesting questions. As for the vaccine, yes it has long been on the FDA's "approved as safe and effective" list. There are actually two pharmaceutical companies that have different versions of the vaccine on the market.
Since the vaccines became available, there's been a back-and-forth debate about whether every young girl should be inoculated. I haven't the time to do this for you, but I believe if you visit the U.S. Surgeon General's websie you'll quickly find the latest "official" opinion.
Michelle Bachmann said today that last night she talked to a woman whose daughter was vaccinated with the HPV - mother told Michelle that her daughter is now retarded from the vaccination. Now what do you believe? Bachmann lying about the mother and was never approached or the mother actually told her this last night??????????
I'm very leery of any forced vaccinations at this point in my life. I realize that MMR have been almost totally irradicated in this country because of them... but there has been some fallout over the series of shots. Notice the rate of ADD has risen in the past 30-40 years... There are more kids on Ritalin these days than ever before. Some have claimed that the shots cause the ADD effect. I've read about other stories that children can develop Aspergers from the vaccines too.
The fact that immunizations of various types eliminate disease, doesn't make them 100% safe. But the use of them does protect the body...
Kate, there was an "opt out" on that vaccine. The parents had the ability to "opt out". I don't understand why this is a big deal. I "opt out" of all vaccines for my kids and have never had a problem!
Perry, Romney, who cares they are all protectors of the wealthy’s wealth, the “republican guard”, if you will, of the rich and powerful. It is amusing how the republicans say the term “class warfare” with such disgust. The republicans have embraced “class warfare” for decades now, of course only the wealthy have been fighting. When a nation of working Americans that have been screwed by republican policies for years decides to fight back, then “class warfare” is bad. Not to worry though repubs the rich won, they own all three branches of the federal government, they have all the nations wealth, control the media, hell they have it all. I don’t know why all you people get on here and bicker back and forth for, the day has long since past when “change” could have taken place in this country by the voting someone in or out of office, your vote is irrelevant has hell, no one cares how you vote or what you think in the beltway, the American Citizen has became nothing more than something to control and be suspicious of to the powers that be, something that might try and get some of it’s stolen money back, the republican party has been charged with the duty of not letting that happen, and they are a good choice for that considering what an extraordinary job they done of screwing the American people out of that same money.
Now we're seeing the REAL GOP:
They support public government executions and letting sick people die in the streets.
They support cervical cancer.
They oppose education and anything that smacks of science.
The GOP can't be bought for $5,000, but $30,000 will get them to cave on their principles.
They think Social Security is illegal and a Ponzi scheme, but they're not willing to do away with it.
They support a state's rights make their own laws, but if they disagree with those laws the states do make, then we need a national Constitutional amendment to force the states to tow the Republican line.
Hypocrites....all hypocrites....
The republicans have spent decades concentrating the nations wealth in the top 2%, mission accomplished. Now they will fight to the death making sure that it stays there. And that my friend is the entire republican agenda, nothing more, everything else is just background noise to keep the peasants entertained and confused.
MkeMke-- a little hyperbole dont you think? So if you want to embellish like that lets do the opposite does that mean the democrats and Obama are for
They support rapists, murderers and pedophiles and want to coddle them and release them back into society?
They want generational welfare and a nanny state punishing success so that everyone can live in poverty
They want choice for abortion but no choice when it comes to vaccines
They recognize that we have a failed educational system run by the unions but oppose any change in order to close the education gap that is prevalent in society
It takes less than 30k to be bought in Illinois, CA and NY those wonderful guinea pig states of big government, pro unions and high taxes
They think social security is just fine the way it is so they want to reduce the standard of living for our kids and grandkids by bankrupting the country now in order to save benefits for the wealthiest demographic in our society our seniors
They want choice until they dont want choice
They want goverment out of the bedroom but want to make sure they can personally reach into your pocketbook to spend on things they want--of course as long as it doesnt apply to Rangel, Waters, Geithner etc
Hypocrites, all hypocrites
BRAVO! Kirk BRAVO!
I thought the question regarding the gentleman deciding because he is young and healthy to give up his health care, then to discover that he has a fatal disease without health coverage. What would you do - was asked to Ron Paul.
Did you hear his answer?? Wolf asked him would you let him die. Ron Paul said the churches will help him or the HOSPITAL!!! I certainly heard the cheering to let him die from the audience. But he said the hospital would help.
Mike got 10 votes for his post that the GOP "supports cervical cancer".
Very telling, the number of leftist zealots lurking at MSNBC....
Bob, tch tch Bob, Bob, Bob. We marked it up for his tongue in cheek review that was meant to say all politicians are bad. Sorry you missed that but keep blindly attacking the left while the left, right and new off off center rip us all up.
Bravo Mkemike! Kirk numbers--can't handle the truth. Your parrotting of the old Teabag story (let's call them Republican party now-they are after all) is tiresome and unoriginal.
What are you talking about? I am not parroting anything but mimicing MkeMke's hyperbolic little list by showing what the opposite of what he said means the democrats must stand for. Do you see know how embellishing your statements makes you lose all credibility on these issues. I dont really think the democrats are for any of that nor do I think the GOP is for the MKE's list. I was sort of pointing out the pointlessness of his post--do you finally get it?
Kirk,
Your assumption that Democrats are for whatever Republicans are against is false, therefore your crazy comparison crumbles.
I wrote my comments based on the responses of the candidates and the audience. I was not shocked at the cruel, selfish, and unconcerned way that the GOP looks at anyone that isn't wealthy. I've come to expect them to be jerks. For you GOP religious zealots, what would Jesus do?
Would he be for public executions? Did he execute anyone that attacked, tortured, and even murdered him? Would he let sick people die in the streets, go hungry, or without medical care because they didn't have insurance? We currently require people to have auto insurance in order to drive, yet somehow not having medical insurance is considered a sacred constitutional right by the GOP. You people are hypocrites. You site the Bible, and yet take money and rebuke your principles to benefit the vaccine manufacturers. I'll say it again. Hypocrites, hypocrites, hypocrites....
While Obama chastises the TP/Republicans for stalling job growth his thugs on the NLRB are doing what ever they can do to destroy Boeings chances of staying competitive with the Dreamliner. Imagine instead of moving to South Korea Boeing decides to move some jobs to South Carolina and they get sued by the Obama administration for thier efforts. We Desperatley need better leadership in the White House. I'm not convinced it's Gov Perry but it's certainly not .3 term senator Obama.... VOTE FOR BETTER LEADERSHIP in 2012!
Perry is not an arch-conservative idealist. He is not a true-believing fundamentalist. He is not a radical libertarian. He is a crooked politician who will do or say whatever benefits his ambition and his bank account the most. He's actually a lot more like Romney or Gingrich than he is like the rest of the field, especially Bachmann. The difference is that he's better than Romney at faking extremism, but not as good at explaining or rationalizing his positions.
Nathan you make no sense whatsoever. I am not a Perry fan but he isnt anything like Romney or Gingrich but if what you are trying to say is that he is like all other politicians in that he will do anything to get a vote, I assume you mean he is also just like Obama who has done everything he can to appease each voting constituent that he thinks would vote for him right? Unions, Latinos, Gays, environmentalists you have noticed right all the bills and things Obama has done to appease his voters right? Or did you mean something else?
John Kerry might be a better Democratic analog. What makes you say that Perry is unlike Romney and Gingrich? Other than being dumber and having an accent, I mean. Perry is pretty much the second coming of Mike Huckabee, and Huck and Gingrich are practically twins.
Obama is more of a relentless pragmatist, which is admittedly a stark contrast from the idealist that he campaigns as.
Both Romney and Gingrich are much more idealogically in the middle and its painful at times watching them try to pander to the right base. Lets face it Romney got elected in governor in a very liberal democratic state so he is used to pandering to the center and left to keep votes. Gingrich is much more intellectual in his positions and pragmatic just unelectable. I dont believe for a second that Perry is like Huckabee, this is a guy that was a democrat at one point and is comfortable with very centrist even left positions in governing his own state to get votes. Perry is just much more comfortable pandering to the christian base voters. Thats why he scares the far left because progressives see Perry as a idealogue because he is so comfortable pandering to the far right. Thats why he is so like Obama. Conservatives are scared of Obama because they see him as an idealogue because of how comfortable he is pandering to his radical left base even though as you say, he is much more pragmatic in office but his rhetoric and campaiging say a different story.
Ok why does no one ever mention the circumstances and the perosn who was ousted by Romney as the Governor in MA? It was not so much a Romney win as a hate vote against the idiot in the office prior to him.
Mike, Kirk, although you both went a bit overboard you are both somewhat right. POLITICIANS are self serving hypocrites. Period.
JT, that was my point and I completely agree. All politicians will pander do consitituents go get votes and will sell their sister for a vote and campaign money.
Amen Kirk!
Say what you want about Perry but he never minces words ( unlike the current President) and always tells the truth whether people like it or not. That is refreshing, to me, even though I do Not always agree with Perry's positions on issues. Contrast that with Mr. "I will bring transparency back" Obama.