Ron Paul won this debate just like he has won many others (look at the last election debates). The media and those that own the media are working overtime in their attempt to ignore Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul worried me today when he thought even aviation didn't need regulation. That plane flying over my house and yours is a bomb. We saw that on 9/11. Bombs need regulations. Even our cars are bombs. Bombs need regulations. Yes Ron Paul actually worried me today. Huntsman was the only sane candidate and as he stated #1 at creating jobs while governor of Utah. Not #47. Obama was the clear winner tonight but having to pick one of these men and lady. My pick is Huntsman.
Why can't the companies that own those planes regulate their planes. I think businesses can handle their own security. Don't let the establishment keep you in constant fear, that is exactly what they want.
Just because we speak our minds and don't just give up like the rest of you when things are as screwed up as the bias of this debate... That is how we let this country go down hill in the 1st place...., Thinking we can't do anything to change it cause we have no voice compaired to the $ of the lobbyists... I think it's funny that Mitt, "compaired to the 2008 election" has done a complete 360 and sounds more and more like Ron Paul alone with Perry and Newt. Ask, Newt who has been pushing for the Fed to be audited for the last 1o plus yrs and ask Perry where he heard and got his term he used tonight to label the type of economics that we are using today and that aren't working...? The bottom line is if you take the best parts of all the candidates and put them together you get Ron Paul...! Then look at their records and the choice is easy, Ron Paul...!
Obama won the debate. None of these 'candidates' made a bit of sense. They all signed the Norquist pledge, except for Huntsman - and they sounded like the parrots they are. Very boring. No ideas - just the usual line that reducing taxes creates jobs. Mental midgets - the lot of them!
Who are they fooling? They are going to get their clock cleaned in 2012 and that will be the end of this Tea Party crap.
Absolutely right Cynthia! The media dictators are once again trying desperately to pick the winners. They would love to have Perry vs. Obama or Romney vs. Obama, because either way they've got "their man." It's all about putting a puppet in office that will give you the payback you expect. And the media industry is putting their stock in both of these lying, corrupt politicians. Paul is their enemy because he won't give them a dime!
Ron Paul is leading the poll by 18% over Mitt Romney and yet the green bars make them appear at first glance to be neck and neck as they are exactly the same size. What's up with that?!
Ron Paul clearly won. moderator to Rick Perry ''can you name a scientist that refutes global warming?" Rick Perry:'' well ugh lets see?'' redirect and not answer the question Moderator to Rick Perry again''can you name a scientist that refutes global warming?" Rick Perry:''ugh lets see BLOWING SMOKE?'' This guy Perry he just is not that bright. But he is handsome and his hair looks good? Mitt Romney very impressive IMHO.
Ron Paul all the way. He rocked it with the manipulation the media and others try to pull by simplifying his answers when they are too complex for it.
The ID and fence comment I think went over the heads of many people though that do not know his reasoning behind his stance. Funny thing about all the candidates promoting the fence is that it was in Reagan Library and the clip of tearing down the wall was played in promotion yet they all want a militarized fence here in the US.
Dr Paul will get my vote even as a write in. It's not about R or D for me but principle and the future.
Attention Ron Paul: "privatizing" is not the answer to everything; there is no business incentive to privatize activities with no profit potential, like airport security screening.
It's time for someone to show Mr. Paul back to his room at the home.
''Obama won the debate.'' Obama has no clue about turning our economy around all he knows about economics is printing more money and giving it to his banker friends!
You news people are crazy! Governor Huntsman is a clear outstanding, plans forward winner of the debate. Stop trying to influence who is choosen by only seeing Gov. Perry or Gov. Romney as the front winners. They were all no detail, party line spin. Shame on you newscasters!
We wouldn't need airport security if we'd listen to Dr. Paul who says "bring our troops home, get out of the Middle East and give Israel a free hand to deal with her enemies". But he didn't get to express those views tonight because MSNBC, APAC and Big Oil didn't want the American People to hear truth and sanity.
Not a bit of substance for the majority of the Perry and Romney show. Rick Perry probably believes the Earth is 5000 yeard old..notices I didn't say thinks, there is a reason. Romney is just more of the same old rehash. Paul gets my vote in the primary and he is a write in if he's not on the ballot. How about let each of them get interviewed for an hour and be able to elaborate more than 1 minute on very complex issues. Ron Pauk woud shine, Americans would realize Perry is noting more than a zealot and Romney only takes a stand if forced to.
Ron's idea of deregulating everything, and trusting capitalists to do the right thing is RETARDED!!!
You'll get exactly what you deserve if you let this country go that direction. The hand that supposedly feeds you will slowly kill you for profit. They'll poison your entire life. They'll ruin the entire world. You'll beg for mercy, and wish you has tried to stop it in the end.
There is potential for profit in airport security screening. Would you fly an airline with a reputation for providing safe, secure travel? Yes your ticket would cost more, but perhaps your share of the deficit would be much smaller..net gain. Competition brings out the best, government beauracracy creates waste.
I don't know why they put down MSNBC. Afterall, it's not only MSNBC that negelects to give Ron Paul press. And it's not MSNBC that will pass over nominating Paul again in 2012.
Don't get me wrong Floridavoter. Airlines should be providing their own security. Airport security complacency caused 9/11. Get rid of this bogus unconstitutional fascist police state we've built since 9/11. Slash military spending back to where it was in the 1990s. There are much smarter and cheaper ways to defend this nation than what we've been doing. What we've been doing is bankrupting us.
We played this game of chicken with the Soviet Union called Guns vs. Butter. We conned them into making too many guns, and not enough butter. Their economy fell right on it's face, although we also came precariously close to doing the same thing. Now Bin Laden, with the help of the GOP over the past decade, has tricked us into going all in on that same non winning strategy.
I think we are on the same page Gendolkari....and Ron Paul is the one that will unwind our fascist police state. Perry wil tilt at every wind mill that aint christian, Romney will try to not make waves, which means status quo and Obama, well don't get me started on that whack job. Sad to say it looks like we will have romney or perry vs obama. More regurgitations of the same ol garbage.
I agree with Ron Paul about a lot of things, but removing federal regulation over capitalism isn't one of them. However, Federal regulation agencies can and should be drastically improved and made much more efficient. Properly managed regulation is a system of checks and balances between government and capitalism. It can't be too restrictive, but it can't be too loose either.
Capitalists all too often loose sight of the long term detriments to society and environment their plans can cause because of their short term and short sighted profit goals. Regulation is a check on that bad habit.
Wow. That bar graph is really not helpful deceptive(?). Not a Ron Paul supporter. But I do watch the Daily Show, and I am wondering if Jon Stewart's not onto something re Paul and the media...
GendoIkari you can keep bashing capitalism by repeatedly posting nonsense, but it won't help your cause.
Capitalism built America... oh, you forgot that? America is going down the tubes because of the very type of logic you display here. Socialism (which I'm sure you're all for, considering you're against capitalism), is sucking this country dry.
Tell ya what GendoIkari, next time your welfare checks comes in the mail, spend a bit of it on some history books; you may learn something.
And GendoIkari, complacent airport security did not CAUSE 9/11. That statement is beyond insane. Even if you said airport security failed to prevent 9/11, that is still a moronic statement. They hijacked the planes with freakin box cutters. Not guns. Not bombs. BOX CUTTERS MAN! and if they wouldn't have been able to get box cutters on the planes they would've taken plastic shives for God's sake. If you really think sexually molesting every damn passenger would prevent that... pfft. Get real.
I think it's awesome that Ron Paul has more votes then the next three candidates combined. I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that Gov. Gary Johnson (my choice) has once again been banned from the debate. He's a young Ron Paul who is getting the same treatment Ron Paul got in '08. All that said, I think Huntsman won the debate hands down.
Ron Paul, huh? What about the majority of Americans that don't want to go back to the labor contitions of 1903?
We might just as well name the white house/capital complex "White Square" and elect a politburo to direct us each to our own respective corparate owner.
Tim, you're way off if you think that Libertarians are socialists. They are something much more dangerous, even to you're rural republican way of life. They are ultra-capitalists, almost to the point of anarchy with corparations being the only ones in control. Like the very early 1900's, only with corparations so huge, and ways of squeezing every last bit of work out of a person that it would make the 1903 look like the New Deal. It's not that different from the Soviet Union in contolling peoples lives, they would just have the private sector do it instead of the government. They are some of the most dangerous idealogs you will ever meet if you ever have any hope of improving your lot in life, because, under their policies, the Company would control every aspect of your life, from education (learning to use your required tool and nothing else) to when your children start working, to what you can buy from the Company store.
Actually, if I was going to vote for any of these people, it would be Jon Huntsman. He's the only one who made any sense. Glad I watched it, but that's it for me. I don't need to see anymore.
People - please note that the media (MSNBC) is once again trying to influence voters by the manner in which the bar chart is drawn. It is not drawn in the proper proportion. If Ron Paul has 47% of the votes and Romney, the next closest, has 19%, his bar should be less than half the length of Paul's. The chart is drawn so that Romney's bar is almost the same length as Paul's, which is incorrect and misleading.
Don't allow the media to influence your perception of who the voters think won the debate.
Glad to see MSNBC is FINALLY displaying a graph that is reflective of Ron Paul's true lead over the other idiots...uh...candidates. It was almost comical the way they were trying to skew the results earlier.
@theCavalier Are you retarded??? To suggest that a Libertarian wants corporations to control the world is one of the stupidest things I've heard yet. If anything, a Liberatarian is the opposite. We are opposed to the definition of a Corporation as an "individual" because it clearly is NOT and we do not like how they have used the 14th Amendment for their own advantages. It is the corporations that are currently running our government when you think about it. A Libertarian is for individual freedom and limited government. What is so crazy about that??? These are the same ideals held by the Founding Father's of this nation. Do you honestly enjoy having the government dictate areas of your life that should be your own concern??
As a Independent who voted for president obama I am looking to vote for someone who stands for the citizen over the elite last election was still the best of what we had to choose from remember hiliary ,liberman palain, macain.) all chosen for us.i see they are trying to do it again. the press wont make my chice for me.Dr. paul does not wavier and explains himself well (whenever he gets coverage in this stacked game of politics. but we the people are feed up with the so called elite telling us how we should think
I don't know... I just picture Ron Paul being a super-stubborn president with no desire for compromise. No compromising with extreme small federal government and big state government views doesn't fly for being the head of the federal government. Not sure I could take his "whining" in larger doses. Can you imagine he and Harry Reid arguing?
Mitt's one and only foundation as "the businessman in the room" and all about jobs was never "all about jobs". His "jobs plan" hurt him more than his debate.
Perry is Perry. You gotta like the guy, but more as a next door neighbor with a beer in his hand than president. His Bush likeness hurts him bad. Combine that with extreme views on science and Social Security and I actually counted him in the "out" column.
Bachmann? Uh..
I like Huntsman. Maybe good VP?
Newt looks good in this field. He always looks better in a field. He needs to stay in a field.
BTW, for people that constantly spew that government cannot create jobs, they sure claim to have created a lot of jobs while in government... the BS alert was high last night.
Talk about swaying the results! MSNBC can't even get their graph right. Look at Ron Paul's 46.xx% compared to Mit Romneys 18.xx%? The graph bar for Mit's 18.xx% should be less than half the length of Ron Paul's 46.xx% but it's not even a 1/4th less! I wouldn't trust mainstream media to report the straight stuff with a 10 foot pole.
Actually, that was not said about President Obama. Paul is the perennial candidate, he is becoming as much of a joke as Adlai Stevenson was in his day, and he is not electable.
MSNBC needs to look hard at their voting on who won this debate. I think the results were "gamed" by the Ron Paul folks. There is no reason 50,000 people thought Ron Paul won this debate and came in number one in the MSNBC POLL.
I have yet to hear a serious commentator on both sides feel Ron Paul was the overwhelming winner. Also these 'voters" if you look - this is their first posting on MSNBC.
Since the media has already decided the front runners are Perry and Romney. I would pick Romney. He seems the lesser of two evils. Ron Paul is the most intelligent but will be passed over since he lacks charisma. I sincerely hope America will realize we don't need a radical George Bush clone (Rick Perry) at this point in time.
Get real. You can never expect any corporation to regulate itself except when it comes bringing in more money. They will cut costs wherever they can and continue to do so until there's a reported scandal of some kind. Then they say Sorry we won't do it again (until they do it again).
You're crazy if you think a corporation will ever put your best interests first.
Wall Street was poorly regulated and that's what brought us here. You want more unregulation??
Cami2012 - I had told myself I wasn't going to say anything on this topic. I didn't watch the debate, so...
But, you comment that Libertarianism is antithetical to Corporatism (sp?) is just silly. Oh, you may be against it, but, how would you stop them once you have removed any regulations on them?
I have been going through the 'data' here and I think Huntsman is coming in a far off 2nd.... It seems he's 'moderate in a room full of extremists' but Ron Paul has dominated every page I've looked at and 6.9% for Huntsman sounds reasonable for the amount of people he has voting for him.... all the rest was below that FOR SURE!!
The media attention to those two losers calling them a winner, compared to the poll by the american people that clearly shows Ron Paul by more than 2:1 over Romney? This is just more proof that the media is attempting to control the political outcome. People, do not be fooled. Ron Paul says what he means and means what he says. I just wonder if this is a precursor for a rigged election. nah that's the conspiracy theroist in me talking now. =P How come they are so afraid of Ron Paul? Is it because that fake ass federal reserve is going to be shutdown? I mean how the hell can they print money with no value and lend it to us at interest? Biggest scam of them all if you ask me......
I paid close attention to Ron Paul in the debate, because so many people think he's the greatest, but I was disappointed in his answers. He was not very coherent. His positions may be popular, but his articulation of them last night was pretty weak. I've seen him do much better.
Attention Ron Paul: "privatizing" is not the answer to everything; there is no business incentive to privatize activities with no profit potential, like airport security screening.
NO PROFIT IN AIRPORT SECURITY SCREENING? 21st Century Patriot, my fellow American: TSA is fast becoming one of the largest single parts of the military-industrial complex PAID FOR NOW BY YOUR TAX DOLLARS, WHICH THEY HAVE ROBBED FROM YOUR FUTURE SOCIAL SECURITY ACCOUNT TO PAY FOR 'COUNTER-TERRORISM'! Do you realize how much those machines cost? Do you realize whomever makes & sells those to the government is making a KILLING, lobbying for the contract, writing the laws, and making backroom kick-back campaign financing deals?? Do you know they plan to put those machines in ALL government & quasi-government buildings and on and on? (They have already started that years ago-- it's not just for airports!) Do you know how many people they employ from the logistics and the planning and the moving and the building of the machines down to the man who feels you up when you refuse the machine? Do you know they are now planning to hire INexperienced minimum wage people to feel you up and they will call that 'job creation'? And this is all falling under the GIANT umbrella of 'national defense' spending? Oh my goodness, PRIVATIZE THAT AIRPORT SECURITY AND SHARE THE WEALTH WITH THE oh-so-FAR-better-equipped-to-handle-it-and-care-to-carry-it-thru-properly AMERICAN PEOPLE! PS: A few well trained gun/explosive-sniffing & drug-sniffing DOGS & handlers would do a far better job on the front end without any need to 'profile' or ever feel up any little Girl Scouts!
Yeah. Just what we need. Another gov from Texas as president. The last 2 worked out so well: Lyndon Johnson gave us escalation in Viet Nam and Bush-2 gave us Iraq. Let's learn from our mistakes. No more Governors from Texas!!!
I wrote Ron Paul in on my ballot in the last election. If you truly believe in Ron Paul's platform, as I do, then you have to friggin' VOTE for the man. Don't talk . . . . . DO IT!!!!!!!
Paul and Cain's extreme libertarian viewpoints are reminiscent of the age of social Darwinism in american history, around the time when Upton Sinclair exposed the horrors of the meat packing industry, and immigrant children worked 14 hour days in dangerous factories. The free market is good at one thing only, and that is making the highest profits possible regardless of any ethical problems associated with achieving those profits. Paul's ideas that the free market will regulate itself is entirely unrealistic. Beyond that they are both too far right on the political spectrum to ever have a chance in a general election.
Perry is pretty much done now too after the SS ponzi scheme statements he dropped and given that the republican base is very much rooted in older voters, who by the way vote in greater numbers than any other demographic.
Bachman and Santorum never had more than a one in a million chance at the primaries.
That leaves Romney, Gingrich, and Huntsman as the only legitimate candidates left with any chance of winning in the general election
Kraig, you just don't understand the fundamentals of free market. It works if the people are engaged, involved consumers and workers. The fact of the matter is, corporations don't force anything, people are just complicit for whatever reason of their own. Boycotting is one way people can control a free market. I boycott Walmart; problem is most people don't give a crap, and will go wherever they think they can get the cheapest price. People are usually the problem.
Companies didn't force children to work at gun point. If parents didn't allow their kids to work at all, then it wouldn't of happened. The simple fact is that people back then had a different mindset. Children grew up working on farms and family stores. Schools would let out for harvest, so the kids could help. So having children work wasn't an evil back then. Also families were larger, upwards of 6-15+ kids, so the older ones would drop out of school by 8th grade(just throwing a grade out there, it varied) and go to work to help pay for the family's needs. It was a sad mess, but it was society that allowed for these things to happen, not corporations. They did exploit, and abuse societies positions in life, but the only person to really blame is oneself.
It's the whole personal responsibility concept. And people don't like taking personal responsibility, cause then they'd have to face up to the fact that they want as much profit in their coffers, gained through labor, just as much as a company wants profit from the products they sale and the labor they use. If people worked in poor conditions it's because they were willing to do so. No one forced anyone to do it. People just accepted their lot in life resulting in them putting up with anything in fear of not getting what they feel they need. If no person would work in bad conditions, then the company couldn't exist. They need the labor to live on, just as much as people need to work in order to live. The problem comes when one person says, "I won't work in that condition," and walks away; just to have someone else gladly fill that position. So you see, it's really us, the people that create our own mess. This is why when unions go on strike they get pissed that others will still go into work, or replace them, cause it makes their strike less of an impact on the company. Now if customers would say, hey I agree with the workers plight and not buy the product the company would be forced to change. One wouldn't need unions if workers and consumers would just get off their butts and take control. Don't you see? People hold the reigns in a free market system if they just get involved. But people are freak'n lazy, they don't want to have to think about how their purchasing and work habits impact society, so they just want to leave it up to the gov. to regulate labor and production. This is where corruption and bought out politicians take root. What we have now I call Corporate Socialism, where companies become, "Too big to fail." Consumers and workers lose their power over the market, and corporations and politicians create bureaucracies with revolving doors. Ron Paul believes in the people, and believes we've grown as a society, and that we're ready to take back personal responsibility and live by our convictions; and to not let corrupted politics, corporations and unions rule our lives. That is the freedom Ron Paul talks about.
ps, I know I rambled a little bit, but I hope I got my point across.
Kate, you make several valid points, there is nothing inherently wrong with children working it is more the working conditions that are the issue; companies generally don't force people to buy products at gun point; I will point out though that during a number of strikes in the industrial era people were literally forced to work at gun point (The homestead strike and the Pinkerton agency comes to mind here) and many died for the labor rights we have today. I agree that people are entirely capable of keeping control of a free market system through choices they make in what they purchase, where they work, how much they will work for, and eventually people will stand up for their rights once things are bad enough. The problem is that most of the population is either ignorant or apathetic towards problems until they feel the direct effects. Yes we do bring these problems on ourselves through our own devotion to self interest. I do agree that the government has become too involved in the free market system. I am equally concerned however with statements Ron Paul makes about removing the minimum wage entirely in an effort to help lower income people or abolishing the TSA. Without any minimum wage companies will happily higher more workers but at wages that won't be beneficial to those receiving them. Our founding fathers constructed the constitution based on the entirely valid notion that people will always act out of self interest. The fact is that most people see self interest as a bottom line. The only account taken is a monetary one which is why we end up with institutions like Wal-Mart and MacDonald's (of which I am a patron of neither). As for the issue with the TSA and FAA it may be very possible to do these things privately but the way Ron Paul described in Wednesday's debate was vague and worrisome.
Just to go back to the child labor idea, I was really referring more to the small girls who lost fingers in textile factories and so forth, family farm labor wasn't really the issue I was referring to. The problem that existed in the late 1800's and early 1900's was that low income families needed the money that every child brought back from the factory to survive. They felt they had no choice and in many ways they didn't. I believe many of the concepts Ron Paul put forth about removing government involvement and bail-outs are good to some degree. He has just either failed to communicate them correctly or they really are as extreme as they sound in which case he will be unable to win a general election. The free market does many good things but ethical action and self regulation are not on that list. Car companies never put seat belts in cars and food was never labeled until those things were required by law. I agree that the regulatory agencies that exist today are corrupt and broken but I don't think removing them entirely is a good idea. "The people are a great beast" according to Alexander Hamilton (at least I think it was him) and I am inclined to agree. Neither corporations nor people, unions or politicians will do the right thing unless it is to their immediate benefit. That is why we have laws and regulations in place. They are the method by which the people can make a collective choice to end certain practices in the corporate and political world they disagree with. Many regulatory agencies have become corrupt but they should be fixed rather than abolished. Anyways thank you for taking the time to type a legitimate and thoughtful answer rather than most of the garbage that ends up posted here
It seems you and I agree, more than disagree. I think people today focus so much on disagreements, that the divide widens so much they can't make a bridge on their agreements. I mostly blame pundits on either side of the political spectrum for this.
I understood you meant children in the cities working in factories. I by no means think this should have been allowed, and I know much good came out of resulting laws. But the fact is all these laws and regulations are reactive, not proactive. The people's ideas and understanding in society changed first, thus resulting in such laws, not the other way around. And what I meant was, it's the mentality of children working, even in dangerous conditions that was accepted as a part of life back then. Before the industrial revolution children mostly worked on the farm and in stores, so when the industrial revolution came into play the parents didn't see much of an issue with the children working in factories. I wonder how many parents made their girls quit working when they lost a finger, or if they just said, "well that's a part of life," and sent their daughter off to work the next day. I do understand that children worked to help out with family needs. I mentioned that in my second paragraph.
As for the Homestead incident, they were not forced to work at gun point. The Pinkertons were called on by Frick, who managed the steel plants for Carnegie, but before the Pinkertons even got off the barges there was a gunfight resulting in deaths on the union side and the Pinkerton side. Then the Gov. of PA sent the militia in to take over the plant that had been shut down by Frick and subsequently taken over by the workers. So this was done by workers already organized, and not people who tried to organize. The union ended up being disbanded and the factory reopened, but no one was forced to work. And the strike was just a general strike by all union members regardless of industry, so it's not like the workers had a specific problem and went out into the streets to protest it. Also the Pinkertons weren't called in till after the workers highjacked the plant.
Anyways, thanks for your great reply as well. I wish more people could have intelligent discourse.
when Bachman won the Iowa poll it was front page, I had to dig for this story...WHat will the media do when Ron Paul is the front runner? It will be hard to dismiss him as crazy this time around seeing as all his predictions have come true.
If the debate would have included Newt, he was the clear winner. Unfortunately he was not given equal time because he was the smartest person in the room and that intimidated the media jack-ass from Politico, John Harris, what a dip-wad.
Newt Gingrich is an intelligent man,but he has zero chance at being our next president,tooooo much baggage! Ron Paul can take on Obama one on one and win that debate hands down, I also believe Mitt Romney could take on Obama and clean his clock on jobs and the economy! Rick Perry looks good in a suit like Obama.
Paul was great, but too bad he can't win. And by can't win, I mean he can get the most votes and win the election in a landslide, but he can't win. We must focus on Bachmann, and Perry and Rick Santorum, he probably won't even win in his household. Once again, Ron Paul 2012. He won this poll, but he can't win. It's almost as though they're telling us that because they won't let him win, as in CANNOT win, which is all the more reason to get out there and wake people up and get this done. We've got a little over a year. Enough time. But that means everybody has to get involved. Even you. I know you don't normally do anything nor think we're talking about you. But we need you and you need to help us.
Yes. The "Paul-bot" army. Did you ever wonder why there isn't a Mit-bot or Rick-bot, or Michelle-bot army? Why is Ron Paul the only one who can inspire his own army? Could it be that there are a lot of people who like the idea of a free market, true liberty, gold backed currency so the government can't just print money on demand, low (as in NO) taxes, and a non-interventionist-mind-our-own-business foreign policy?
Could it be that not that many find the other, essentially interchangeable, candidates all that inspiring?
I hate to point this out, but it would appear that your prediction has gone in the wrong direction. Dr. Paul now has about half of the votes. He could take on all of the other candidates combined. It's going to be interesting how long it takes for the media to realize we're not doing what we're told and they can't ignore him anymore.
MSNBC needs to look hard at their voting on who won this debate. I think the results were "gamed" by the Ron Paul folks. There is no reason 50,000 people thought Ron Paul won this debate and came in number one in the MSNBC POLL.
I have yet to hear a serious commentator on both sides feel Ron Paul was the overwhelming winner. Also these 'voters" if you look - this is their first posting on MSNBC.
Something fishy......
I think the Ron Paul folks have figured out a way to skew this poll.
Ron Paul can't win because his "virtual" internet support has never ever translated into real world support at the polls. Yeah, people always post the Ron Paul internet polls to places like dailypaul.com, and Ron Paul ronbot supporters, never the biggest fans of reality to begin with, think that these polls determine reality. So they go, and they flood the internet polls, resulting in ludicrously skewed results. If they were choosing the next flavor of Mountain Dew this might work, but we have actual elections with actual polling places, and when people go to these polling places and cast their votes, Ron Paul doesn't win.
And every presidential election year, when that inevitably happens, the ronbots blame the media for their candidates shortcomings. When really, they should blame themselves, for confusing fantasy with reality.
What do I have against Ron Paul? Well, he's opposed to reproductive choice (not just abortion, but federal funding for birth control, condoms, stuff like that), he's opposed to gay marriage, he's opposed to the separation of church and state, he's opposed to the EPA and controlling industrial pollution, and he's opposed to the minimum wage. I have my reasons.
Nobody I have spoke to LIKES the MSM telling us Ron Paul isn't 'worthy of support' Their JOB is to report the news NOT LIE ON THE POLES AND IGNORE THE FRONTRUNNERS no matter who that may be. This is the response to that :P I believe Ron Paul is a plant to get us to destroy the system bringing down America's power which is exactly what the elite want so we can be enslaved and I would like to say that MSM/CNN/FOX ....have children who will be enslaved in this same system they are trying to create 'for profit' by accepting the 'money for commercialism' .... greed is the destruction of America and the reason they are succeeding is because of MSM and their going to put up news that isn't true just for the Elite to enslave them and rid them of fair and balanced NEWS.... ruining our 1st amendment that protects yourselves is ignorant....sorry MSM it's the truth and every time you do it you are destroying your own children's future's, if freedom is anything you want for them.
I have yet to hear a serious commentator on both sides feel Ron Paul was the overwhelming winner. Also these 'voters" if you look - this is their first posting on MSNBC.
Too bad the commentators don't actually pick our presidents. It's probably best that they leave it up to the voters, and it would appear that the voters are not listening to the media...
jabbausaf, guess who got the previously unknown, voted "present" senator and current commander-in-chief elected? Chris Hughes.
We all constantly lament about how our goverment is doing things the wrong way constantly. It is time for a change. A real change. I believe Ron Paul represents that change.
@21stCentury how hard did that horse kick you in the head? There's no incentive for making sure your planes don't get hijacked? What is wrong with you? Even if they don't care at all about the safety of their passengers, pilots, and flight attendants, don't you think the PR alone would cost them millions if something were to happen? Don't you think there's a marketing incentive to make their planes safer than others? Don't you think that if a plane were hijacked and crashed somewhere that the cost in insurance payouts as well as the lost equipment and fuel is an incentive? I really want to just go off on you right now but I'm trying not to swear so I don't know how much of the frustration your stupidity is giving me is really coming through.
@Jabbausaf - Do you really not think the media plays a role in these elections? Do you really think that if a particular candidate is ignored by the media for any reason that it drastically reduces that candidate's chances? Do you really not think that if a candidate is not given a fair shake and is made out to be a loon in media coverage that that candidate is fighting an uphill battle? And if so, do you really think that WE'RE the ones who are disconnected from reality? Do yourself a favor and proceed to the nearest hospital to get your head examined.
You are free to form your own opinion and disagree with Ron Paul all you want, and that doesn't make you stupid or crazy. But what DOES make you stupid AND crazy is not thinking that the media is part of why he hasn't been successful in presidential races. I mean the guy is a 12-term congressman, so obviously when people are allowed to actually hear his message it resonates with them.
Furthermore, these debates are structured in such a way that makes genuine discussion about the issues very difficult. Candidates get a limited amount of time to respond, which is understandable, but it means that they have to condense their arguments into easily digestible sound bytes. It waters down the issues and it makes the American people stupider because they are only exposed to simple arguments and not given the chance to listen to a more articulate and complex argument, like the kind Dr. Paul makes.
I don't agree with everything Ron Paul says. I am personally undecided on abortion; I think there are good arguments on both sides. But I don't think we need to be spending federal tax dollars on condoms. Condoms are neither expensive nor are they absolutely necessary. Birth control? Yes, expensive. But having sex with no condom because the girl is on the pill is dangerous, so a condom is still the best choice. If you want to have sex but don't want to shell out three bucks for a pack of condoms then you have two choices - don't have sex, or do the irresponsible thing and have it anyway. By taking that decision out of people's hands, all we're doing is continuing the practice of turning all responsibility over everything over to the government and away from the individuals in this country. And when you don't let people make their own decisions, you deprive them of the intellectual capability of being responsible about their own decisions. Responsibility comes with practice, and without it we are becoming a nation of irresponsible people. And as a former teacher I can say that with absolute confidence, because I have seen what happens when people grow up without ever having to make a decision and deal with the consequences.
I don't agree with him about the EPA either, except that the EPA has been about as effective as the FDA, which recently finally admitted that sugar substitutes can lead to brain cancer after years of silence or ignorance on the matter because enough private scientists finally started saying it. Where there are regulations, there are ways around the regulations. This goes back to the responsibility issue. Now, given that I personally have a great deal of respect for Ron Paul because I've taken the time to read his books and not just based my opinion of him on what CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News want me to see of him, I am willing to trust him enough to go along with his ideas about pollution, even if I don't fully agree with them. Clearly, you do not, so i don't expect you to go along with them. But my hunch is that you haven't read enough about what his proposed solution to that problem is, or about the solutions to the other issues you mentioned. If I'm right, then you are just basing your disagreement with him on the paradigm of American politics that so many people have bought into; there's the left and the right, and they are opposite, and each has their own solution to each problem and the party members all fall in line. You're probably not willing to consider that someone might have an idea that falls outside of one of the mainstream choices that might actually work. If I'm wrong, then I apologize. I don't mean to assume. But you should carefully consider this and make sure that's not actually what's going on in your head.
But really, though, you're way off base about the role the media plays in an election. And if you really are so blind that you can't see that, then maybe you should just sit this election out, because you'll just be voting for more of the same.
How can these sets of republicans who claim God on this side and against abortion be so anti poor. What bible are these set of people reading? Are they the people Jesus warned about when he talked about hypocrites or the richman who claimed he had done everthing right and when Jesus asked him to sell all he owned and follow him, he took off.
Fellow Americans, read between the lines. It is stupid to vote against your best interest. At this point, it should not matter whether you are a Dem. or a Republican. Let vote so that all is better of.
An alternate reality? He actually is IN reality. He is the ONLY candidate who knows what the reality of America is right now. Ron Paul understands economics, the success of free market and the ideals of our founding fathers. I think you need a reality check, AnIndividual.
But many issues and truthful ones at that - how can he be worst then anyone else. He is the best we could have and everyone should stand behind this man, no matter his age or small, small faults. No one is perfect, but he is damn close to being what this country needs, other than lots of prayers and the good Lord above.
Ron Paul 2012! The more the media tries to ignore him, the more it only confirms what most of us already know. *They* don't want someone in power who isn't part of the status quo. They can't control Ron Paul. No one is pulling his strings. He can't be bought by big pharma, like i'm willing to bet Romney & Perry have. Romney is against medical marijuana... so is big pharma.. they are against anything natural. If you can grow the cure in your backyard, that's less $ for them. Perry is all about vaccines.. There are some that are necessary, that actually prevent stuff like Polio, TB, etc.. but in La they are trying to FORCE employees to take the flu shot & make them sign a liability waiver. So, not only are we forced to take a shot we don't want in order to keep our job, they want us to waive our right to sue in the event something happens. Best part is, getting the flu shot doesn't guarantee U won't get the flu. It just means U won't get last year's strain. You can still get another strain of the virus. I never get flu shots & I never get the flu. Everyone I know that gets flu shots, still get the flu every year. Perry is just the type to get in office & play along with what the New World Order wants. 1st it's forced vaccines, then it's RFID chips, and they will claim the chips are going to be to keep the illegals out. This will all be done "for our own safety" but in the end it's our LIBERTIES that will be taken away. Wake up people! Fight the NEW WORLD ORDER!
Obama doesn't even need to campaign against any of these arrogant delusional clueless buffoons. HE's got it in the bag. What a pathetic crew of wackos... ALL of them. Ok..well actually the only ones that didn't sound like complete ASSES were Santorum and Huntsman. Man am I glad I'm a liberal. The GOP has jumped on the CRAZY TRAIN and it needs to be DERAILED.
Crazy train? did you even watch the debate? You are crazy if you vote for Obummer again, the guy has no idea how to fix the economy...if anything, he is intentionally ruining the economy. If someone were to try to ruin the economy, they would do exactly what he is doing...spend money we don't have and raise taxes. Obummer needs to go, and I'll take anyone of those GOP candidates over him. Hopefully Perry, Cain, Newt or Bachmann, but Perry is the only one of those four that has a chance. Wake up buddy, Obummer is a disaster and needs to go.
I don't agree with him on a bunch of things but I'll have to give Ron Paul this much...He was the only candidate up there who was real and stood for what he believed in. The others strike me as they'll say anything at all to win, even if they don't believe it.
Can you guys fix your graphs and your post debate coverage to accurately show who won the debate? Ron Paul still won and MSNBC gave him nearly nothing to work with...you should be ashamed of yourselves. Journalism is dead in this country. I'd rather to listen to documentaries from the nazi party.
Gimme a break.. most of your voters in this poll are liberals and would love to see Paul as the Republican Nominee . It would allow them to have their Obama wet dreams and not worry their long term love affair with their pimp-daddy has to end..Hate to be the messenger for your imaginary coitus interuptus nightmare ,but Ron Paul is a no brain er. It's over for Obama. Perry has it locked.
Yeah, Don I'm pretty much where you are - especially on the skewed voting and Paul as well - not as sure about Perry - not sure about his conservative credentials yet - hey, did ya hear that corvair guy's comin' after Obama again - what's his name ..... Darth Vadar ...... no no wait ...... Ralph Nadar LOL
An alternate reality? He actually is IN reality. He is the ONLY candidate who knows what the reality of America is right now. Ron Paul understands economics, the success of free market and the ideals of our founding fathers. I think you need a reality check, AnIndividual."
Ron Paul, as well as the rest of these Republican Tea Party bozos, have no clue as to how to get this country moving forward. More tax cuts for the rich, eliminate all regulations, eliminate the IRS, eliminate the EPA, eliminate the Dept of Ed?
These are the ways they would create jobs, instead of putting money into the middle class, who buy the goods, that creates the demand, that causes businesses to hire more employees?
All of them should go back to school and take ECO101.
I can't believe anyone would vote for Ron Paul, he knows nothing about national security ... The Supreme leader of Iran said word-for-word he wishes to wipe Israel off the map and America is evil, yet he still doesn't care about their nuclear program... He says OPEC has no oil, when they are the #1 oil producing nations in the world and gas prices are through the the roof ... I speak to the military and they want support, he doesn't support our troops ... I Am vexed ...
pduck- you are the one that needs to go to school. o wait, you probably already did- a government indoctrination camp. Government does not produce anything! They are a drain on the economy. Taxes are taking from one person and giving to another. It is moving the resources around, NOT creating resources. Time and time again you will see private sector doing a much better job of ---well anything. Jobs are created by the private sector. Public sector jobs are an illusion of economic health. You are the one that needs an economic lesson. Plus we have done nothing but grow the government for the past umpteen years. Following your logic our economy should be booming! Ha- how's the hopey changey working for you?
There is absolutely no way Ron Paul won this debate. And there is no way he could seriously be considered a serious Presidential candidate. He is simply another "Harold Stassen" who always runs and never gets anywhere.
The Elites and the MSM will push to make you vote for B.O. or any of the candidates -- except Dr. Ron Paul who terrifies them. Ron Paul will end the FED/Bankster looting of America. Ron Pauls reply to Bachmann's promise of $2.00 a gallon gas in future, should she be elected, was classic. "I can give you a gallon on gas for a dime, right now -- a silver dime". That says everything you want to know about the FED and inflation.
The people who think Paul won the debate are as nuts as he is. I try to follow what he is saying but he is all over the place, the only thing I understood was get rid of all the mandates. He could never be voted in as President he needs to take some lessons from his son on how to stay with one thought at a time. Newt by far did a much better job then all of the rest of them, he would give Obama a run for his money and thats what we need a strong, confident person who can articulate the American peoples ideals and get this country back running again, but...if Sarah Palin runs I'm campaigning for her. Obama OUT 2012!
Americans only want sound bites. They won't take the time to educate themselves on the Constitution and the economy. Ron Paul knows both inside and out. He wins debates because he knows what he is talking about and he has a superb track record on the issues.
Debbie, I understood him perfectly well. He was not all over the place. He didn't have the same amount of response time, so he would try to answer/talk about previous questions during his time. He wasn't allowed to go on and on like Perry and Romney.
You just couldn't comprehend what he was talking about cause he doesn't use talking points/rhetoric like Palin and all the others. It's a form of propaganda. Having a degree in journalism, I see what's going on. It's not hard to see that the media is trying to force out Paul, and make this a race between Perry and Romney. There were hundreds of stories written hours before the debate about how this was going to be about Perry and Romney, the "front-runners".
Gallop did a poll a couple weeks ago about the Republican Presidential hopefuls against Obama. Among registered voters Romney polled ahead of Obama by a couple points, Perry tied with Obama, and Paul was merely 2 points behind Obama. Can you imagine Paul's numbers he he actually got equal time in the press? Paul can win, and if people would educate themselves, he will win.
These are excerpts from Edward Bernay's book "Propaganda" written in 1928. This is the man that perfected the science of rhetoric.
"THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
...it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons—a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million—who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.
It is not usually realized how necessary these invisible governors are to the orderly functioning of our group life. In theory, every citizen may vote for whom he pleases. Our Constitution does not envisage political parties as part of the mechanism of government, and its framers seem not to have pictured to themselves the existence in our national politics of anything like the modern political machine. But the American voters soon found that without organization and direction their individual votes, cast, perhaps, for dozens or hundreds of candidates, would produce nothing but confusion. Invisible government, in the shape of rudimentary political parties, arose almost overnight. Ever since then we have agreed, for the sake of simplicity and practicality, that party machines should narrow down the field of choice to two candidates, or at most three or four.
...We have voluntarily agreed to let an invisible government sift the data and high-spot the outstanding issues so that our field of choice shall be narrowed to practical proportions. From our leaders and the media they use to reach the public, we accept the evidence and the demarcation of issues bearing upon public questions; from some ethical teacher, be it a minister, a favorite essayist, or merely prevailing opinion, we accept a standardized code of social conduct to which we conform most of the time. ..."
This is the father of spin/ the father of propaganda. You learn about all this at university. People really don't understand how manipulated they are. It's sad and disgusting. This is why people think Paul can't win, cause it's been the media mantra in the last few months. And so many people fall for it. Sad, so sad.
Ron Paul 2012. I've heard a few negative comments on here about him.. Yea everyone has a down side. But what makes anyone better? At least he has always stood by his decisions and stuck to them no matter what people say. And what do I say? Thank god. Better than any Romney who cant even decide if he is pro-choice or pro-life. Where he is one till he wants to be elected then changes his platform so that people like him better. No thank you. I will take a polition that knows what he wants out of his terms. And doesn't change his entire platform for the public vote.
Ron Paul 2012. How do you ask a question about healthcare and ignore the one doctor on stage? Or how do you ask a question about foreign policy and skip the only anti-war candidate on stage? Shame on you MSNBC. We all lost tonight as your debate was not well run or organized.
Ron Paul was ignored during the debate, but answered his questions well with the few he got. Santorum was asked more questions than Paul? Ron Paul 2012!
Ron Paul won this debate just like he has won many others (look at the last election debates). The media and those that own the media are working overtime in their attempt to ignore Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul won this debate just like he has won many others (look at the last election debates). The media and those that own the media are working overtime in their attempt to ignore Congressman Paul."
Why all of this fuss over Ron Paul? The American people have spoken, on several occasions and have told him that they don't want him as president. You would think that he would have gotten the message by now.
We should be wary of any candidate, who espouses simple solutions to complicated problems. Yeah, just get rid of all regulations and let capitalization flourish and that will solve all of our problems.
Businesses know best for America. Let the airlines do their own security. Bring back "buyer beware". Let them pollute as much as they want and, eventually, the marketplace will dictate that they stop polluting when their own neighbors and employees can't breath.
Let's bring back states rights and let the states decide whether a woman has the right to an abortion or whether or not to reinstate segregation and Jim Crowe laws.
Let's get rid of the Fed and let the business cycle do what it is going to do, without any Federal government intervention. And we should stop regulating Wall Street.
Ron Paul....just another Republican Party empty suit with a populist message that has no basis in reality.
Get over it. You will be stuck with Rick or Mitt as your nominee and Obama for 4 more years, unless you can come up with a better candidate than what you have now.
I will consider voting for a moderate Republican, but they are as scarce as unicorns and hens teeth.
It looks like 19 people agree with me and you agree with yourself.
The American people have spoken, on several occasions and have told him that they don't want him as president. You would think that he would have gotten the message by now.
Oh, so if you don't win the first time, you're not allowed to run again? If you look at the numbers above, it appears that about half of the people here would prefer Congressman Paul to the media favorite, Rick Perry who is polling at under 15%. I'd say he's got a pretty good shot.
We should be wary of any candidate, who espouses simple solutions to complicated problems.
Yeah, if he speaks in a manner that most people can understand and keeps his promises that definitely disqualifies him. But actually we should be wary of people like you and the media that would like us to vote for their picks because "our candidate simply can't win".
Sorry, but we're not going to vote for who we're told to vote for this round.
Two winners last night, President Obama, and Ron Paul. Unfortunately, Paul has same problem Adlai Stevenson had: he's much too intelligent for public consumption. NO GOP person last night had even ONE new, original idea---roll ALL those losers into one lump of mediocraty and Repujblicans cannot come up with a single winner against President Obama. IF there ever was a "race"--it's over folks. Our current President cannot lose in 2012. PS: There is NO one anywhere that can overcome the devisivness of attitudes in our country today, nor can any one person "rescue" the financial mess handed over to our President in 2008.
it's not over until it's over. It's WAY too early to say that. You may be woefully underestimating the thoughts and hearts and POWER of the American people, especially the young people and the active troops.
And secondly,
PS: There is NO one anywhere that can overcome the devisivness of attitudes in our country today,
that's where you're dead wrong. The only reason we are here today talking about the things we are is because there is ONE MAN who has indeed overcome such, among ALL the people who actually know and learn about him, not by himself alone, but by uniting us that we may draw on the strengths of each other. RON PAUL speaks of freedom, for every person, regardless of their party or class or race: and RON PAUL LIVES, AND VOTES, AS HE SPEAKS! RON PAUL does not see people collectively as group, therefore he cannot divide them, neither in his mind nor outwardly; and in his presence they are at once the many and yet each uniquely one.
This country was built on the utmost sacred protection of the rights of the INDIVIDUAL, and each individual's equality as endowed by his or her creator. That is how we evolved so quickly as a one GREAT nation of many many diverse individuals, more and moreso each being allowed the freedom to succeed as well as to fail; the freedom of each to be safe in her person and her property, and each to do as he himself sees fit, as long as he does not tread upon these self same rights of any other.
Our elected leaders for the most part have turned their backs on that Great American legacy, which did usher in THE AGE OF REASON to the world. But The People have not all turn their backs! The people cry out for justice and humanity! And Ron Paul has answered.
AND, RON PAUL SPEAKS THE TRUTH. ALWAYS. EVEN WHEN IT'S INCONVENIENT AND UNPOPULAR. Only by being allowed to speak, and speaking the truth, can we begin to see ourselves, our errors and our strengths. YOUNG PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZE THIS AMAZING, AND SADLY RARE, TRAIT OF RON PAUL. By his obvious wisdom, he can be relied upon to tell us what is actually happening, and he can be relied upon to use that same wisdom to know and separate his own ego from his sworn duty to this country. And he can be relied upon to ask no person to save this county alone-- that cannot be done; but rather he has and will at every given opportunity, time and time again it has been shown that he will BOLDLY LEAD by his own example, even when it seems at first that he is all alone, he will carry on and join together with anyone and everyone to work toward the common ideal of LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
For us here who have seen and come to know the works of such a visionary man, these words are no longer empty cliche. By demonstrating REAL TRANSPARENCY AND BIPARTISANSHIP, RON PAUL has won the hearts and minds of so many people from all walks of life, everyone who actually stops, listens and learns. We learn that he has spent his life on a CAUSE, not a campaign.
Even if he does not win this last run toward the executive office, he has turned our faces in the direction of truth and the real immediately problems in this country; and so the young people CAN AND WILL carry on now. By his 40+ yrs of writing & speaking to the youthful populations, regardless of vote eligibility, Ron Paul has already set us on a path to healing: RON PAUL has ALREADY WON!
And finally,
nor can any one person "rescue" the financial mess handed over to our President in 2008.
In the spirit of Ron Paul Truth, I must say, yes, no single person can fix all the problems we have within such a short term. Every president in my voting lifetime --(I'm 45yrs old and have always voted in all elections since I was of age)-- every single president has had a hand in this mess and current self-destructive path we are on as a nation. But we must start somewhere! The plain truth is that Obama did NOT start anywhere near a path to hope or change. He continued some of the most detrimental of the previous administrations' policies, and he has even re-doubled some of those and dealt a few more CRUSHING blows of his own.
I would ask of all Americans, that they listen to the educated minds and hearts and untainted spirits of our nation's youth, and our active troops: please let them have this choice in their own future path. They are much wiser than we may know, and they would be so very uplifted if their voices were heard!
But, regardless of this one election we have what we need, in no small way, but in large part due to the life and times of Dr. Ron Paul, we now have what we need to overcome.
FREEDOM UNITES ALL PEOPLES ! PAUL/KUCINICH 2012 !!!
Newt's ideological belief that a smaller government provides more freedom for its people.
He understands History in politics. Those that dont...are doomed to repeat it.
He will be an excellent debater and will stay on point. I doubt he would absolutely need to have a teleprompter to give a speech on any subject he believes.
Newt is wiser than most...and he can talk in simple everyday English--- he will bring America together again ala The Gipper
Will he be elected, no, because folks can only see his baggage and not his strong leadership ability.
akel....I agree. I personally despise Newt, but he did seem at ease and confident and certainly seemed to have good answers to the few questions he was asked. His experience showed. I still would not vote for him but I think his performance will keep him in the race a lot longer.
Newt is very knowledgeable and excellent in a debate. In a debate he would do well against Obama as well. His weakness is his voting record and he had some personal issues that would be brought up. I have no doubt that if he did what he says he would do, he would make an awesome president. Unfortunately, his track record in this regard isn't stellar. Fortunately there is another candidate that has always done what he promised.
America only works when Americans are working. Newt has a pro-growth strategy similar to the proven policies used when he was Speaker to balance the budget, pay down the debt, and create jobs. The plan includes:
Stop the 2013 tax increases to promote stability in the economy. Job creation improved after Congress extended tax relief for two years in December. We should make the rates permanent.
Make the United States the most desirable location for new business investment through a bold series of tax cuts, including: Eliminating the capital gains tax to make American entrepreneurs more competitive against those in other countries; Dramatically reducing the corporate income tax (among highest in the world) to 12.5%; Allowing for 100% expensing of new equipment to spur innovation and American manufacturing; Ending the death tax permanently.
Move toward an optional flat tax of 15% that would allow Americans the freedom to choose to file their taxes on a postcard, saving hundreds of billions in unnecessary costs each year.
Strengthen the dollar by returning to the Reagan-era monetary policies that stopped runaway inflation and reforming the Federal Reserve to promote transparency.
Remove obstacles to job creation imposed by destructive and ineffective regulations, programs and bureaucracies. Steps include: Repealing the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which did nothing to prevent the financial crisis and is holding companies back from making new investments in the U.S; Repealing the Community Reinvestment Act, the abuse of which helped cause the financial crisis; Repealing the Dodd-Frank Law which is killing small independent banks, crippling loans to small businesses and crippling home sales; Breaking up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, moving their smaller successors off government guarantees and into the free market; Replacing the Environmental Protection Agency with an Environmental Solutions Agency that works collaboratively with local government and industry to achieve better results; and Modernizing the Food and Drug Administration to get lifesaving medicines and technologies to patients faster.
Implement an American energy policy that removes obstacles to responsible energy development and creates jobs in the United States.
Balance the budget by growing the economy, controlling spending, implementing money saving reforms, and replacing destructive policies and regulatory agencies with new approaches.
Repeal and replace Obamacare with a pro-jobs, pro-responsibility health plan that puts doctors and patients in charge of health decisions instead of bureaucrats.
Fundamental reform of entitlement programs with the advice and help of the American people.
Does anyone else have a plan, or is all smoke & mirrors?
THAT's the 'plan'? Listen, you can't solve these problems with that rhetoric. Have you even looked at Ron Paul's plan? Please do take a look, and you'll have to look at the FULL page on EACH ISSUE. But let me just say, that nobody in US can "reform" the Federal Reserve. It is an international stock company NOT SUBJECT TO US LAW. Reagonomics?? pfft. Nixon nixed the gold standard. Everything after that is where you'll find your "smoke and mirrors". None of that balancing and 'growing the economy' and 'controlling spending' is even possible with this Fed Reserve system, and THEY ALL KNOW THAT. USA has a Treasury Dept, you know. Why not use it? END THE FED. And where's your Newt's FOREIGN POLICY?? Oh, we can't touch that now can we? You CANNOT separate FOREIGN POLICY FROM ECONOMIC POLICY, PERIOD. Where do you think all that funny money is going? THAT WHOLE LIST IS SMOKE AND MIRRORS.
Ronald Reagan, 1964, the infamous "Time for Choosing" speech, which was an endorsement of Barry Goldwater: "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing." --THAT'S THE RONALD REAGAN RON PAUL ENDORSED. (The Reagan who LOST the nomination to Ford.)
Reagan took office as President in January 1981. BUT Ron Paul, the bold unpopular TRUTH speaker, said: "Ronald Reagan has given us a deficit ten times greater than what we had with the Democrats. It didn't take more than a month after 1981 to realize there would be no changes." --and your Newt wants more of that???? (I don't think so, I think he just wanted to say "Reagan".)
Oh, and PS: Reagan in 1983 sent Marines into Lebanon and later expressed regret in his memoirs: "I never realized the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics".
I can't believe this stuff. Nobody, not even law makers, are expected to read or write anymore?? Is this a contest to see who can SOLVE THE COUNTRY'S PROBLEMS IN 400 WORDS OR LESS?
Anindividual / best post on the board ... this debate means nothing ... it's way to early to draw any meaningful conclusions ... all have a good day ...
If there's anyone that could make Fox News look fair and balanced, it's MSNBC with that absurdly biased debate tonight. What did you do - throw 3 awful questions at Ron Paul compared to 25 to that idiot Huntsman? He won 69 votes in Iowa Straw Poll!
This debate should be called the "Perry and Romney Show". They got more face time than all the other candidates combined. Paul held up well despite being asked loaded questions. Meanwhile the two media darlings got softball questions. What a joke!
He wouldn't make it past election night, even if he had a bat's chance in hell at winning, a bizarre accident would take place. There are people that take care of problems like Ron Paul, to stop his BS from infecting the economy!
MSNBC & Politico, I don't even know where to begin. From your complete lack of fairness to the candidates, to your questions (If you can even call them that... more like attacks on certain people and open ended on others), I really would like to know how you can consider yourself a credible news source. I think you maybe should have advertised this as a Mitt Romney and Rick Perry jerk off commercial, that would have been much more accurate. Maybe next time, give the other candidates a fair chance to respond in EQUAL amounts.
The majority of the time was given to the candidates who were the current front runners in the polls. the media may influence this somewhat but they don't create public opinion. MSNBC gave the time and questions to the candidates they thought viewers wanted to hear from. In the end its about viewer ratings and they did what they thought would give them higher ratings. Like it or not, as of September 7th Romney and Perry were winning the polls by a landslide. If this debate changes public opinion in favor of another candidate then he or she will likely receive more time in the next debate. The fact is no one wants to hear from the lesser candidates because they won't make. They aren't important until they get a significant following in the polls.
They really do worship Ronald Reagan don't they ! As far as I am concerned, his thinking is what led us down the road to fiscal disaster and a mushroom cloud of debt, but they actually worship him.
Finally some honesty.... Ron Paul's statement about supporting Reagan's message but not what transpired under his administration was tacit admission that the Republican party is enamored with the myth of Reagan rather than the reality.
They really do worship Ronald Reagan don't they ! As far as I am concerned, his thinking is what led us down the road to fiscal disaster and a mushroom cloud of debt, but they actually worship him."
The Republican candidates like to give lip service to Ronald Reagan, but if Ronny were running today, he could not get the nomination because he is too liberal, compared to this bunch of Right Wing loonies. The Tea Party would toss him out on his ear.
What! Really? Ronald Regan helped create more wealth for this Nation as a whole than had been created in the 200+ years before him. He also worked with Mikhail Gorbachev to prevent World War 3!!!
The worship stems from a complete distortion of the facts. He did not cut taxes and he raised the debt. He is given credit for cutting taxes and reducing the debt which just isn't true. Denial is not a river in Egypt!
WOW- I like the Ron Paul supporters- Ron Paul has zero chance of getting the nomination but it is nice to see that his supporters are having fun with this poll and the comments. I think when Ron Paul was speaking that Reagan was turning over in his grave.
Ron Paul has zero chance of getting the nomination lol ........well hang on to your seat and get ready for the Ron Paul 2012 white house ride...... People are tired of the same old BS year after year
michael54: "I think when Ron Paul was speaking that Reagan was turning over in his grave." You need to look up some history. They were friends, they were both friends of Goldwater, and they stood on the Goldwater conservative platform. Reagan was not able to stay on that path. Ron Paul cannot be swayed, this much he has already proven. Ronald Reagan AND Nancy Reagan were proud to see ONE TRUTHFUL TRUE CONSERVATIVE in the Reagan Library.
If Republicans go with Ron Paul, they will easily win due to cross-over votes. With anybody else, Republicans will lose again. I am a life-long Democrat, but Ron Paul is clearly the most intelligent and thoughtful politician to come to Washington in decades. More importantly, he is right on his assessment on all of the ailments of our country, and the cures. I would vote for Paul in a heartbeat!
I suppose we should privatize the FAA because it's not in the constitution. Flying in a plane under the direction of the lowest bidder controlling air traffic gives me real warm feeling. Paul lives in a parallel universe but I suppose those who support him will still be pushing for his presidency after he's dead.
Well, the air traffic controllers are already sleeping and drinking on the job under government supervision, how much worst can it get, plus they are piling up rights to pensions, benefits and too much in the way of union perks that they don't deserve for sleeping and drinking on the job. Maybe privitization isn't such a bad idea there ART- FART!!@!!
Art, who has more incentive to keep the planes from crashing or being blown up, government bureaucrats or airports? Government bureaucrats or the owners of the airplanes?
Well, the air traffic controllers are already sleeping and drinking on the job under government supervision, how much worst can it get, plus they are piling up rights to pensions, benefits and too much in the way of union perks that they don't deserve for sleeping and drinking on the job. Maybe privitization isn't such a bad idea there ART- FART!!@!!"
Yep, just when you thought that airline safety couldn't get any worse, some idiots actually propose that we privatize the FAA. If that happens, then a couple of sleeping or drunk air traffic controllers will be the least of our worries.
Hey, why not just eliminate the FAA and let the airlines provide for their own safety, as well as their own security?
Get the Federal government out of the airline business and save the taxpayers billions of dollars. I'm sure the flying public is on your side, especially if they can save a few bucks on an airline ticket.
So why don't you vote for Ron Paul in the primary? That way if he wins the nomination you can vote for him the general election too. Don't tell me your afraid to cross party lines, I do it all the time because I base my vote on the person not the party
Exactly right tommy. Anyone who is registered as a democrat or independent needs to register as a republican before their states primary so they can help get Ron Paul the republican nomination and then the presidency. Don't wait, do it soon before you forget.
Hey, why not just eliminate the FAA and let the airlines provide for their own safety, as well as their own security?Get the Federal government out of the airline business and save the taxpayers billions of dollars. I'm sure the flying public is on your side, especially if they can save a few bucks on an airline ticket.
Damn right, Duck! The blinsdspot that causes so much fear in those who don't get Dr Pauls message about REAL free market reform is nothing more than a 'boogey-man' knee jerk reaction caused by keying in on the media driven soundbyte, instead of really LISTENING to what Ron Paul says about the subject in it's entirety.
None of his bold reforms would even be able to happen without other supporting reforms to ensure the desired effect. Take the TSA or FAA. (First of all, he NEVER said we couldn't have them if we wanted them...you see he does NOT want to 'rule' over us....but this is tangental to the point I'm getting at.)
OK. The part about letting the airlines handle their own security that is missed is this; Ron Paul says individuals and corporations MUST be accountable for their actions/neglect. Gov't regulation does NOT ensure greater safety. It actually shields the corporations, (whose LOBBYISTS actually craft the legislation to FAVOR THEMSELVES, and stiffle real competition)....remember the investment bank bailouts? from having to be liable or only liable to a minor degree. Under Dr Paul, government does not shield 'business' from liability, but makes them responsible. Remember, individuals have the right, through a REAL court system to bring a company doing harm to its knees.
Play the game the constitutional, free market, Ron Paul way, and see how fast the corporations step into line. The other path is suicide. They will design security and safety systems that will not alienate passengers, and provide a degree of safety that the FAA and TSA can't even DREAM of!....and their employees will be top notch, unlike the public employees who couldn't get jobs securing their local grocery store.
With the understanding that it requires the parts of the system to WORK TOGETHER, instead of against each other,(which is how we got the Dept of Homeland Security....remember, no communication or cooperation between the various federal police agencies FBI, CIA, NSA etc.) it is far beyond me to understand just what is so 'scary' about Dr Pauls ideas
Well said AUricle. I listen to liberal talk radio on Sirius XM, and they do not seem to fully understand the actual free market system that libertarians champion. I think that the smart ones do understand, but then they would not be able to push their communist, um I mean "progressive" ideas. Regulation and gov control is a stepping stone to Communism. This is what socialism is according to Marx and Engels, the transition from Capitalism to Communism. I call our current market system Corporate Socialism, with concepts of "Too big to fail." But in actuality it's more like a strange marriage between socialism and fascism.
What gets me is, liberals and those on the mainstream right say libertarians want anarchy, cause they espouse smaller government. The truth is both sides of the isle want the largest gov they can get; Because they want control. They might take different paths, but the destination is the same. And libertarian tea party types (not the fake Tea Party Express that the Republican party is using to become relevant again, but the true first Ron Paul Tea Party types) scare the crap out of both mainstream big gov politicians and their media mouthpieces.
What I find ironic is, if one reads the works of Marx and Engels, one will see that the ultimate goal of communism is to have no government. So in essence, if one takes to heart the philosophies of Marx and Engels, then they are in fact an anarchist. Yet people are so stuck in the socialism transitional part of the Marx/Engels utopia that they can't imagine life without a huge overbearing regulating gov machine. They're so scared of corporations that they'll give everything over to gov in exchange for gov control.
I think some regulation can be an asset to society, but I see the problems/corruption that comes with controlling such regulation and the "revolving door" between such bureaucracies and corporations. And as you pointed out the lobbying that comes into play as well.
The analysis after the show must not have been about the debate. I did not see the same debate they were discussing. It looks like they were trying to make news not report it. There comments were totally misrepresented and take out of context. Debate good. After debate comments by MSNBC poor
What I've been hearing from a lot of people who aren't brainwashed kool-aid drinking Ronbots is that Romney won it. If the Republicans manage to be smart enough to nominate Romney, they'll probably win.
What I've been hearing from a lot of people who aren't brainwashed kool-aid drinking Romneybots is that Paul won it. If the Republicans manage to be smart enough to nominate Paul, they'll probably win.
Romney shows his ignorance by defending Perry's Executive Order mandating all girls, before they enter the 6th grade, be experimented on with Gardasil... a Vaccine for a Sexually Transmitted Disease. And why was it only Girls that he and Merck wanted to experiment on, especially given the significantly higher risk of genital warts and anal cancer caused by HPV among gay men?
And it is fiction that there was an easy 'opt out'... the executive order (so graciously) allows parents to "to submit a request for a conscientious objection affidavit form" i.e. Submit a request for a FORM to be considered by the Executive-On-High. s/news/executive-order/3455/
There was indeed an easy opt out...all you had to do was tell the doctor "NO" and sign a form that showed you are opting out....I know personally due to fact I have 3 girls and 1 boy. Please get your "facts" straight before posting.
yea but what they didn't say that the vaccinations killed girls.. people will often take a doctors advise, 46 people did there kids all died. even after that Perry tried to amend it into law before it was slapped down by the legislator after the fact the fact that the kids died. that's why there was a overwhelmingly amount of support against it. go do your research.
As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination: 17,958 reports among females and 346 reports for males, of which 285 reports were received after the vaccine was licensed for males in October 2009. VAERS received 423 reports of unknown gender. Of the total number of VAERS reports following Gardasil®, 92% were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious.
Deaths
As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil® . There were 54 reports among females, 3 were among males, and 11 were reports of unknown gender. Thirty two of the total death reports have been confirmed and 36 remain unconfirmed due to no identifiable patient information in the report such as a name and contact information to confirm the report. A death report is confirmed (verified) after a medical doctor reviews the report and any associated records. In the 32 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine and some reports indicated a cause of death unrelated to vaccination.
The facts are a lot worse than that, your are just noting the US deaths, not worldwide. Over 12,000 women have had negative effects from this shot worldwide.
12,000 negative effects among the world you say? And thats out of how many doses? Because in the U.S. 35 million doses with only 68 deaths constitutes barely even a percentage of those vacinated. There will always be risks with any form of medicine. Can't please everyone.
While the press has tried to ignore Ron Paul, they won't be much longer,since his ideas are winning over not just Republicans but Independents as well.
Do you believe there are even 35 MILLION 12 year old girls here in America?
'Distributed' means nothing. I assume you are trying to show how "low risk" the vaccination is.
Just because you have pharmacutical reps doling out millions of doses to doctors, does not mean those doses have been ADMINISTERED. In fact, the real 'dosages administered' /to deaths from the drug ratio, would give ANY parent pause. Perry sold out to big pharma. No matter how he tries to soft peddle it.
So does this mean that Pres. Obama won't get millions from the banksters like his last election? I bet the banks give both big gov politicians millions, just to cover all bases, so that they have their man, no matter who wins. You know who doesn't get millions from large corporations? Yep, Ron Paul.
What gets me about Rick Perry is that he's just like Palin and all these other mainstream Republicans who jumped on the Tea Party Train in order to appeal to conservatives and independents who were/are tired of mainstream politics. So after Ron Paul got the train steaming down the tracks, the political bums hopped on for a ride, and wrote books and started talking like Paul. It's all fake people. Palin is a fake, Perry is a fake, Romney is a fake, Bachmann is a fake, and Obama is a fake. Only Ron Paul walks the walk.
I agree, landolincoln1 - whether you agree or disagree with Paul on the issues, he may be the only candidate not in someone's pocket. He stands firm for his convictions and hasn't changed his mind about anything that I can recall. But the media won't give him the time of day.
Thetotas I'll tell you about Ron Paul's foreign policy..he is dead on. Bring our troops home. Stop being the police force for the world. Mind our own business. We have enough problems of our own then to involve ourselves in everyone elses affairs. Border patrol? Bring our troops home and have them secure our borders. Ron Paul is the smartest most qualified candidate out there, He's a doctor for Godsake. And if you think we can continue to print money and spend our way out of debt, your out of your f'ing minds. There is absolutely nothing backing the dollar. That is the true Ponsi sceme. Ron Paul is so far above these other clowns it's not even funny. The Main Stream Media is a joke. The internet can get Paul elected. Thought news was suppose to be impartial. They will not be able to ignore Ron Paul forever. He has a huge following and getting bigger all the time. There plan to highlight others will end up backfiring as it is proving to everyone how biased they are. RON PAUL 2012!!
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What a joke of a debate!
Try as hard as you can MSNBC to put down Ron Paul!
All you're going to do is make us work harder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron's the man, the rest are a scam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't like MSNBC, then what are you doing here?
Making sure everybody knows the truth! The mainstream media can only hide it for so long. Revolution!
Ron Paul won this debate just like he has won many others (look at the last election debates). The media and those that own the media are working overtime in their attempt to ignore Congressman Paul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xEyA_5yZEM
They ignored him before and they are doing it again. Cynthia is 100% correct.
...because this is where the debate is...RP 2012!
Ron Paul worried me today when he thought even aviation didn't need regulation. That plane flying over my house and yours is a bomb. We saw that on 9/11. Bombs need regulations. Even our cars are bombs. Bombs need regulations. Yes Ron Paul actually worried me today. Huntsman was the only sane candidate and as he stated #1 at creating jobs while governor of Utah. Not #47. Obama was the clear winner tonight but having to pick one of these men and lady. My pick is Huntsman.
@AnaBanana - Cars are bombs...do they need regulation? Do I need to be molested by the TSA before I drive to work every morning?
Why can't the companies that own those planes regulate their planes. I think businesses can handle their own security. Don't let the establishment keep you in constant fear, that is exactly what they want.
Just because we speak our minds and don't just give up like the rest of you when things are as screwed up as the bias of this debate... That is how we let this country go down hill in the 1st place...., Thinking we can't do anything to change it cause we have no voice compaired to the $ of the lobbyists... I think it's funny that Mitt, "compaired to the 2008 election" has done a complete 360 and sounds more and more like Ron Paul alone with Perry and Newt. Ask, Newt who has been pushing for the Fed to be audited for the last 1o plus yrs and ask Perry where he heard and got his term he used tonight to label the type of economics that we are using today and that aren't working...? The bottom line is if you take the best parts of all the candidates and put them together you get Ron Paul...! Then look at their records and the choice is easy, Ron Paul...!
Ron Paul supporter will vote Ron Paul, whether or not he is on the ballot.
Obama won the debate. None of these 'candidates' made a bit of sense. They all signed the Norquist pledge, except for Huntsman - and they sounded like the parrots they are. Very boring. No ideas - just the usual line that reducing taxes creates jobs. Mental midgets - the lot of them!
Who are they fooling? They are going to get their clock cleaned in 2012 and that will be the end of this Tea Party crap.
Nope. I won't vote for anybody but Ron Paul regardless of circumstance. The rest are literally vortexes of moral and political compromise.
Absolutely right Cynthia! The media dictators are once again trying desperately to pick the winners. They would love to have Perry vs. Obama or Romney vs. Obama, because either way they've got "their man." It's all about putting a puppet in office that will give you the payback you expect. And the media industry is putting their stock in both of these lying, corrupt politicians. Paul is their enemy because he won't give them a dime!
It's time for us to decide whether or not we are going to vote for who the media likes or if we are going to vote for the best candidate.
Ron Paul 2012!!!
Ron Paul is leading the poll by 18% over Mitt Romney and yet the green bars make them appear at first glance to be neck and neck as they are exactly the same size. What's up with that?!
More media manipulation, Lisa...
Ron Paul clearly won. moderator to Rick Perry ''can you name a scientist that refutes global warming?" Rick Perry:'' well ugh lets see?'' redirect and not answer the question Moderator to Rick Perry again''can you name a scientist that refutes global warming?" Rick Perry:''ugh lets see BLOWING SMOKE?'' This guy Perry he just is not that bright. But he is handsome and his hair looks good? Mitt Romney very impressive IMHO.
Ron Paul all the way. He rocked it with the manipulation the media and others try to pull by simplifying his answers when they are too complex for it.
The ID and fence comment I think went over the heads of many people though that do not know his reasoning behind his stance. Funny thing about all the candidates promoting the fence is that it was in Reagan Library and the clip of tearing down the wall was played in promotion yet they all want a militarized fence here in the US.
Dr Paul will get my vote even as a write in. It's not about R or D for me but principle and the future.
Attention Ron Paul: "privatizing" is not the answer to everything; there is no business incentive to privatize activities with no profit potential, like airport security screening.
It's time for someone to show Mr. Paul back to his room at the home.
ranran Obama is on Barack Obama's side not yours, But if you have $35,000.00 you can join Jeffrey Imelt and other corporate donors for dinner? Imelt and GE are busy sending whole divisions to China at the same time he is advising Obama on jobs? Where in Shangai?
RanRan
''Obama won the debate.'' Obama has no clue about turning our economy around all he knows about economics is printing more money and giving it to his banker friends!
You news people are crazy! Governor Huntsman is a clear outstanding, plans forward winner of the debate. Stop trying to influence who is choosen by only seeing Gov. Perry or Gov. Romney as the front winners. They were all no detail, party line spin. Shame on you newscasters!
We wouldn't need airport security if we'd listen to Dr. Paul who says "bring our troops home, get out of the Middle East and give Israel a free hand to deal with her enemies". But he didn't get to express those views tonight because MSNBC, APAC and Big Oil didn't want the American People to hear truth and sanity.
Not a bit of substance for the majority of the Perry and Romney show. Rick Perry probably believes the Earth is 5000 yeard old..notices I didn't say thinks, there is a reason. Romney is just more of the same old rehash. Paul gets my vote in the primary and he is a write in if he's not on the ballot. How about let each of them get interviewed for an hour and be able to elaborate more than 1 minute on very complex issues. Ron Pauk woud shine, Americans would realize Perry is noting more than a zealot and Romney only takes a stand if forced to.
Ron's idea of deregulating everything, and trusting capitalists to do the right thing is RETARDED!!!
You'll get exactly what you deserve if you let this country go that direction. The hand that supposedly feeds you will slowly kill you for profit. They'll poison your entire life. They'll ruin the entire world. You'll beg for mercy, and wish you has tried to stop it in the end.
There is potential for profit in airport security screening. Would you fly an airline with a reputation for providing safe, secure travel? Yes your ticket would cost more, but perhaps your share of the deficit would be much smaller..net gain. Competition brings out the best, government beauracracy creates waste.
I don't know why they put down MSNBC. Afterall, it's not only MSNBC that negelects to give Ron Paul press. And it's not MSNBC that will pass over nominating Paul again in 2012.
Don't get me wrong Floridavoter. Airlines should be providing their own security. Airport security complacency caused 9/11. Get rid of this bogus unconstitutional fascist police state we've built since 9/11. Slash military spending back to where it was in the 1990s. There are much smarter and cheaper ways to defend this nation than what we've been doing. What we've been doing is bankrupting us.
We played this game of chicken with the Soviet Union called Guns vs. Butter. We conned them into making too many guns, and not enough butter. Their economy fell right on it's face, although we also came precariously close to doing the same thing. Now Bin Laden, with the help of the GOP over the past decade, has tricked us into going all in on that same non winning strategy.
I think we are on the same page Gendolkari....and Ron Paul is the one that will unwind our fascist police state. Perry wil tilt at every wind mill that aint christian, Romney will try to not make waves, which means status quo and Obama, well don't get me started on that whack job. Sad to say it looks like we will have romney or perry vs obama. More regurgitations of the same ol garbage.
I agree with Ron Paul about a lot of things, but removing federal regulation over capitalism isn't one of them. However, Federal regulation agencies can and should be drastically improved and made much more efficient. Properly managed regulation is a system of checks and balances between government and capitalism. It can't be too restrictive, but it can't be too loose either.
Capitalists all too often loose sight of the long term detriments to society and environment their plans can cause because of their short term and short sighted profit goals. Regulation is a check on that bad habit.
If we let Capitalism run completely amok as Ron Paul suggests, it will destroy everything in sight except the Heavens above.
Wow. That bar graph is really
not helpfuldeceptive(?). Not a Ron Paul supporter. But I do watch the Daily Show, and I am wondering if Jon Stewart's not onto something re Paul and the media...GendoIkari you can keep bashing capitalism by repeatedly posting nonsense, but it won't help your cause.
Capitalism built America... oh, you forgot that? America is going down the tubes because of the very type of logic you display here. Socialism (which I'm sure you're all for, considering you're against capitalism), is sucking this country dry.
Tell ya what GendoIkari, next time your welfare checks comes in the mail, spend a bit of it on some history books; you may learn something.
And GendoIkari, complacent airport security did not CAUSE 9/11. That statement is beyond insane. Even if you said airport security failed to prevent 9/11, that is still a moronic statement. They hijacked the planes with freakin box cutters. Not guns. Not bombs. BOX CUTTERS MAN! and if they wouldn't have been able to get box cutters on the planes they would've taken plastic shives for God's sake. If you really think sexually molesting every damn passenger would prevent that... pfft. Get real.
I think it's awesome that Ron Paul has more votes then the next three candidates combined. I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that Gov. Gary Johnson (my choice) has once again been banned from the debate. He's a young Ron Paul who is getting the same treatment Ron Paul got in '08. All that said, I think Huntsman won the debate hands down.
Attention: MSNBC, your bar graph at the top of this page is not representative of the percentages.
Ron Paul, huh? What about the majority of Americans that don't want to go back to the labor contitions of 1903?
We might just as well name the white house/capital complex "White Square" and elect a politburo to direct us each to our own respective corparate owner.
Tim, you're way off if you think that Libertarians are socialists. They are something much more dangerous, even to you're rural republican way of life. They are ultra-capitalists, almost to the point of anarchy with corparations being the only ones in control. Like the very early 1900's, only with corparations so huge, and ways of squeezing every last bit of work out of a person that it would make the 1903 look like the New Deal. It's not that different from the Soviet Union in contolling peoples lives, they would just have the private sector do it instead of the government. They are some of the most dangerous idealogs you will ever meet if you ever have any hope of improving your lot in life, because, under their policies, the Company would control every aspect of your life, from education (learning to use your required tool and nothing else) to when your children start working, to what you can buy from the Company store.
Run away from libertarianism. Far, far away.
Actually, if I was going to vote for any of these people, it would be Jon Huntsman. He's the only one who made any sense. Glad I watched it, but that's it for me. I don't need to see anymore.
People - please note that the media (MSNBC) is once again trying to influence voters by the manner in which the bar chart is drawn. It is not drawn in the proper proportion. If Ron Paul has 47% of the votes and Romney, the next closest, has 19%, his bar should be less than half the length of Paul's. The chart is drawn so that Romney's bar is almost the same length as Paul's, which is incorrect and misleading.
Don't allow the media to influence your perception of who the voters think won the debate.
Glad to see MSNBC is FINALLY displaying a graph that is reflective of Ron Paul's true lead over the other idiots...uh...candidates. It was almost comical the way they were trying to skew the results earlier.
@theCavalier Are you retarded??? To suggest that a Libertarian wants corporations to control the world is one of the stupidest things I've heard yet. If anything, a Liberatarian is the opposite. We are opposed to the definition of a Corporation as an "individual" because it clearly is NOT and we do not like how they have used the 14th Amendment for their own advantages. It is the corporations that are currently running our government when you think about it. A Libertarian is for individual freedom and limited government. What is so crazy about that??? These are the same ideals held by the Founding Father's of this nation. Do you honestly enjoy having the government dictate areas of your life that should be your own concern??
As a Independent who voted for president obama I am looking to vote for someone who stands for the citizen over the elite last election was still the best of what we had to choose from remember hiliary ,liberman palain, macain.) all chosen for us.i see they are trying to do it again. the press wont make my chice for me.Dr. paul does not wavier and explains himself well (whenever he gets coverage in this stacked game of politics. but we the people are feed up with the so called elite telling us how we should think
I don't know... I just picture Ron Paul being a super-stubborn president with no desire for compromise. No compromising with extreme small federal government and big state government views doesn't fly for being the head of the federal government. Not sure I could take his "whining" in larger doses. Can you imagine he and Harry Reid arguing?
Mitt's one and only foundation as "the businessman in the room" and all about jobs was never "all about jobs". His "jobs plan" hurt him more than his debate.
Perry is Perry. You gotta like the guy, but more as a next door neighbor with a beer in his hand than president. His Bush likeness hurts him bad. Combine that with extreme views on science and Social Security and I actually counted him in the "out" column.
Bachmann? Uh..
I like Huntsman. Maybe good VP?
Newt looks good in this field. He always looks better in a field. He needs to stay in a field.
BTW, for people that constantly spew that government cannot create jobs, they sure claim to have created a lot of jobs while in government... the BS alert was high last night.
Talk about swaying the results! MSNBC can't even get their graph right. Look at Ron Paul's 46.xx% compared to Mit Romneys 18.xx%? The graph bar for Mit's 18.xx% should be less than half the length of Ron Paul's 46.xx% but it's not even a 1/4th less! I wouldn't trust mainstream media to report the straight stuff with a 10 foot pole.
I am always amused at the slavish devotion of the Ron Paul cult. Sorry, folks, he is unelectable, and you are the only people that don't know that.
That's what they said about Obama remember
Actually, that was not said about President Obama. Paul is the perennial candidate, he is becoming as much of a joke as Adlai Stevenson was in his day, and he is not electable.
MSNBC needs to look hard at their voting on who won this debate. I think the results were "gamed" by the Ron Paul folks. There is no reason 50,000 people thought Ron Paul won this debate and came in number one in the MSNBC POLL.
I have yet to hear a serious commentator on both sides feel Ron Paul was the overwhelming winner. Also these 'voters" if you look - this is their first posting on MSNBC.
Something fishy......
Since the media has already decided the front runners are Perry and Romney. I would pick Romney. He seems the lesser of two evils. Ron Paul is the most intelligent but will be passed over since he lacks charisma. I sincerely hope America will realize we don't need a radical George Bush clone (Rick Perry) at this point in time.
@newday: keep thinking that, drone.
eb-4050555 #1.8
Get real. You can never expect any corporation to regulate itself except when it comes bringing in more money. They will cut costs wherever they can and continue to do so until there's a reported scandal of some kind. Then they say Sorry we won't do it again (until they do it again).
You're crazy if you think a corporation will ever put your best interests first.
Wall Street was poorly regulated and that's what brought us here. You want more unregulation??
Cami2012 - I had told myself I wasn't going to say anything on this topic. I didn't watch the debate, so...
But, you comment that Libertarianism is antithetical to Corporatism (sp?) is just silly. Oh, you may be against it, but, how would you stop them once you have removed any regulations on them?
OK, Holiday Cheer beat me to it...
I wish Hillary would run - She'd make short work of Obama in a primary and would make a great President.
I have been going through the 'data' here and I think Huntsman is coming in a far off 2nd.... It seems he's 'moderate in a room full of extremists' but Ron Paul has dominated every page I've looked at and 6.9% for Huntsman sounds reasonable for the amount of people he has voting for him.... all the rest was below that FOR SURE!!
Throw the koch paid bums out before they destroy our country-America U.S.A.
Would anyone else have liked to see Gary Johnson in the debate?
The media attention to those two losers calling them a winner, compared to the poll by the american people that clearly shows Ron Paul by more than 2:1 over Romney? This is just more proof that the media is attempting to control the political outcome. People, do not be fooled. Ron Paul says what he means and means what he says. I just wonder if this is a precursor for a rigged election. nah that's the conspiracy theroist in me talking now. =P How come they are so afraid of Ron Paul? Is it because that fake ass federal reserve is going to be shutdown? I mean how the hell can they print money with no value and lend it to us at interest? Biggest scam of them all if you ask me......
I paid close attention to Ron Paul in the debate, because so many people think he's the greatest, but I was disappointed in his answers. He was not very coherent. His positions may be popular, but his articulation of them last night was pretty weak. I've seen him do much better.
NO PROFIT IN AIRPORT SECURITY SCREENING? 21st Century Patriot, my fellow American: TSA is fast becoming one of the largest single parts of the military-industrial complex PAID FOR NOW BY YOUR TAX DOLLARS, WHICH THEY HAVE ROBBED FROM YOUR FUTURE SOCIAL SECURITY ACCOUNT TO PAY FOR 'COUNTER-TERRORISM'! Do you realize how much those machines cost? Do you realize whomever makes & sells those to the government is making a KILLING, lobbying for the contract, writing the laws, and making backroom kick-back campaign financing deals?? Do you know they plan to put those machines in ALL government & quasi-government buildings and on and on? (They have already started that years ago-- it's not just for airports!) Do you know how many people they employ from the logistics and the planning and the moving and the building of the machines down to the man who feels you up when you refuse the machine? Do you know they are now planning to hire INexperienced minimum wage people to feel you up and they will call that 'job creation'? And this is all falling under the GIANT umbrella of 'national defense' spending? Oh my goodness, PRIVATIZE THAT AIRPORT SECURITY AND SHARE THE WEALTH WITH THE oh-so-FAR-better-equipped-to-handle-it-and-care-to-carry-it-thru-properly AMERICAN PEOPLE! PS: A few well trained gun/explosive-sniffing & drug-sniffing DOGS & handlers would do a far better job on the front end without any need to 'profile' or ever feel up any little Girl Scouts!
I get tired of so-called debates moderated by CFR members, ie: Brian Williams.
He and NBC/MSNBC/CNN and most ALL lideral media are mearly Obama cheerleader/bootlickers.....socialists
Rick Perry.
Yeah. Just what we need. Another gov from Texas as president. The last 2 worked out so well: Lyndon Johnson gave us escalation in Viet Nam and Bush-2 gave us Iraq. Let's learn from our mistakes. No more Governors from Texas!!!
Folks,
I wrote Ron Paul in on my ballot in the last election. If you truly believe in Ron Paul's platform, as I do, then you have to friggin' VOTE for the man. Don't talk . . . . . DO IT!!!!!!!
They are truly sad people that do not have a clue!!!
Paul and Cain's extreme libertarian viewpoints are reminiscent of the age of social Darwinism in american history, around the time when Upton Sinclair exposed the horrors of the meat packing industry, and immigrant children worked 14 hour days in dangerous factories. The free market is good at one thing only, and that is making the highest profits possible regardless of any ethical problems associated with achieving those profits. Paul's ideas that the free market will regulate itself is entirely unrealistic. Beyond that they are both too far right on the political spectrum to ever have a chance in a general election.
Perry is pretty much done now too after the SS ponzi scheme statements he dropped and given that the republican base is very much rooted in older voters, who by the way vote in greater numbers than any other demographic.
Bachman and Santorum never had more than a one in a million chance at the primaries.
That leaves Romney, Gingrich, and Huntsman as the only legitimate candidates left with any chance of winning in the general election
Kraig, you just don't understand the fundamentals of free market. It works if the people are engaged, involved consumers and workers. The fact of the matter is, corporations don't force anything, people are just complicit for whatever reason of their own. Boycotting is one way people can control a free market. I boycott Walmart; problem is most people don't give a crap, and will go wherever they think they can get the cheapest price. People are usually the problem.
Companies didn't force children to work at gun point. If parents didn't allow their kids to work at all, then it wouldn't of happened. The simple fact is that people back then had a different mindset. Children grew up working on farms and family stores. Schools would let out for harvest, so the kids could help. So having children work wasn't an evil back then. Also families were larger, upwards of 6-15+ kids, so the older ones would drop out of school by 8th grade(just throwing a grade out there, it varied) and go to work to help pay for the family's needs. It was a sad mess, but it was society that allowed for these things to happen, not corporations. They did exploit, and abuse societies positions in life, but the only person to really blame is oneself.
It's the whole personal responsibility concept. And people don't like taking personal responsibility, cause then they'd have to face up to the fact that they want as much profit in their coffers, gained through labor, just as much as a company wants profit from the products they sale and the labor they use. If people worked in poor conditions it's because they were willing to do so. No one forced anyone to do it. People just accepted their lot in life resulting in them putting up with anything in fear of not getting what they feel they need. If no person would work in bad conditions, then the company couldn't exist. They need the labor to live on, just as much as people need to work in order to live. The problem comes when one person says, "I won't work in that condition," and walks away; just to have someone else gladly fill that position. So you see, it's really us, the people that create our own mess. This is why when unions go on strike they get pissed that others will still go into work, or replace them, cause it makes their strike less of an impact on the company. Now if customers would say, hey I agree with the workers plight and not buy the product the company would be forced to change. One wouldn't need unions if workers and consumers would just get off their butts and take control. Don't you see? People hold the reigns in a free market system if they just get involved. But people are freak'n lazy, they don't want to have to think about how their purchasing and work habits impact society, so they just want to leave it up to the gov. to regulate labor and production. This is where corruption and bought out politicians take root. What we have now I call Corporate Socialism, where companies become, "Too big to fail." Consumers and workers lose their power over the market, and corporations and politicians create bureaucracies with revolving doors. Ron Paul believes in the people, and believes we've grown as a society, and that we're ready to take back personal responsibility and live by our convictions; and to not let corrupted politics, corporations and unions rule our lives. That is the freedom Ron Paul talks about.
ps, I know I rambled a little bit, but I hope I got my point across.
Kate, you make several valid points, there is nothing inherently wrong with children working it is more the working conditions that are the issue; companies generally don't force people to buy products at gun point; I will point out though that during a number of strikes in the industrial era people were literally forced to work at gun point (The homestead strike and the Pinkerton agency comes to mind here) and many died for the labor rights we have today. I agree that people are entirely capable of keeping control of a free market system through choices they make in what they purchase, where they work, how much they will work for, and eventually people will stand up for their rights once things are bad enough. The problem is that most of the population is either ignorant or apathetic towards problems until they feel the direct effects. Yes we do bring these problems on ourselves through our own devotion to self interest. I do agree that the government has become too involved in the free market system. I am equally concerned however with statements Ron Paul makes about removing the minimum wage entirely in an effort to help lower income people or abolishing the TSA. Without any minimum wage companies will happily higher more workers but at wages that won't be beneficial to those receiving them. Our founding fathers constructed the constitution based on the entirely valid notion that people will always act out of self interest. The fact is that most people see self interest as a bottom line. The only account taken is a monetary one which is why we end up with institutions like Wal-Mart and MacDonald's (of which I am a patron of neither). As for the issue with the TSA and FAA it may be very possible to do these things privately but the way Ron Paul described in Wednesday's debate was vague and worrisome.
Just to go back to the child labor idea, I was really referring more to the small girls who lost fingers in textile factories and so forth, family farm labor wasn't really the issue I was referring to. The problem that existed in the late 1800's and early 1900's was that low income families needed the money that every child brought back from the factory to survive. They felt they had no choice and in many ways they didn't. I believe many of the concepts Ron Paul put forth about removing government involvement and bail-outs are good to some degree. He has just either failed to communicate them correctly or they really are as extreme as they sound in which case he will be unable to win a general election. The free market does many good things but ethical action and self regulation are not on that list. Car companies never put seat belts in cars and food was never labeled until those things were required by law. I agree that the regulatory agencies that exist today are corrupt and broken but I don't think removing them entirely is a good idea. "The people are a great beast" according to Alexander Hamilton (at least I think it was him) and I am inclined to agree. Neither corporations nor people, unions or politicians will do the right thing unless it is to their immediate benefit. That is why we have laws and regulations in place. They are the method by which the people can make a collective choice to end certain practices in the corporate and political world they disagree with. Many regulatory agencies have become corrupt but they should be fixed rather than abolished. Anyways thank you for taking the time to type a legitimate and thoughtful answer rather than most of the garbage that ends up posted here
It seems you and I agree, more than disagree. I think people today focus so much on disagreements, that the divide widens so much they can't make a bridge on their agreements. I mostly blame pundits on either side of the political spectrum for this.
I understood you meant children in the cities working in factories. I by no means think this should have been allowed, and I know much good came out of resulting laws. But the fact is all these laws and regulations are reactive, not proactive. The people's ideas and understanding in society changed first, thus resulting in such laws, not the other way around. And what I meant was, it's the mentality of children working, even in dangerous conditions that was accepted as a part of life back then. Before the industrial revolution children mostly worked on the farm and in stores, so when the industrial revolution came into play the parents didn't see much of an issue with the children working in factories. I wonder how many parents made their girls quit working when they lost a finger, or if they just said, "well that's a part of life," and sent their daughter off to work the next day. I do understand that children worked to help out with family needs. I mentioned that in my second paragraph.
As for the Homestead incident, they were not forced to work at gun point. The Pinkertons were called on by Frick, who managed the steel plants for Carnegie, but before the Pinkertons even got off the barges there was a gunfight resulting in deaths on the union side and the Pinkerton side. Then the Gov. of PA sent the militia in to take over the plant that had been shut down by Frick and subsequently taken over by the workers. So this was done by workers already organized, and not people who tried to organize. The union ended up being disbanded and the factory reopened, but no one was forced to work. And the strike was just a general strike by all union members regardless of industry, so it's not like the workers had a specific problem and went out into the streets to protest it. Also the Pinkertons weren't called in till after the workers highjacked the plant.
Anyways, thanks for your great reply as well. I wish more people could have intelligent discourse.
when Bachman won the Iowa poll it was front page, I had to dig for this story...WHat will the media do when Ron Paul is the front runner? It will be hard to dismiss him as crazy this time around seeing as all his predictions have come true.
If the debate would have included Newt, he was the clear winner. Unfortunately he was not given equal time because he was the smartest person in the room and that intimidated the media jack-ass from Politico, John Harris, what a dip-wad.
Newt Gingrich is an intelligent man,but he has zero chance at being our next president,tooooo much baggage! Ron Paul can take on Obama one on one and win that debate hands down, I also believe Mitt Romney could take on Obama and clean his clock on jobs and the economy! Rick Perry looks good in a suit like Obama.
Romney/Gingrich 2012
Interesting....
Paul was great, but too bad he can't win. And by can't win, I mean he can get the most votes and win the election in a landslide, but he can't win. We must focus on Bachmann, and Perry and Rick Santorum, he probably won't even win in his household. Once again, Ron Paul 2012. He won this poll, but he can't win. It's almost as though they're telling us that because they won't let him win, as in CANNOT win, which is all the more reason to get out there and wake people up and get this done. We've got a little over a year. Enough time. But that means everybody has to get involved. Even you. I know you don't normally do anything nor think we're talking about you. But we need you and you need to help us.
Yes, the Paul-bot army is always quick to jump on the internet polls. Midday tomorrow, he will have slid to his proper place; midway to the bottom.
Yes. The "Paul-bot" army. Did you ever wonder why there isn't a Mit-bot or Rick-bot, or Michelle-bot army? Why is Ron Paul the only one who can inspire his own army? Could it be that there are a lot of people who like the idea of a free market, true liberty, gold backed currency so the government can't just print money on demand, low (as in NO) taxes, and a non-interventionist-mind-our-own-business foreign policy?
Could it be that not that many find the other, essentially interchangeable, candidates all that inspiring?
Cavalier,
I hate to point this out, but it would appear that your prediction has gone in the wrong direction. Dr. Paul now has about half of the votes. He could take on all of the other candidates combined. It's going to be interesting how long it takes for the media to realize we're not doing what we're told and they can't ignore him anymore.
Ron Paul 2012!!!
MSNBC needs to look hard at their voting on who won this debate. I think the results were "gamed" by the Ron Paul folks. There is no reason 50,000 people thought Ron Paul won this debate and came in number one in the MSNBC POLL.
I have yet to hear a serious commentator on both sides feel Ron Paul was the overwhelming winner. Also these 'voters" if you look - this is their first posting on MSNBC.
Something fishy......
I think the Ron Paul folks have figured out a way to skew this poll.
If you familiarize yourself with Paul's district you will see that there is a lot of industry and energy there.
Ron Paul can't win because his "virtual" internet support has never ever translated into real world support at the polls. Yeah, people always post the Ron Paul internet polls to places like dailypaul.com, and Ron Paul ronbot supporters, never the biggest fans of reality to begin with, think that these polls determine reality. So they go, and they flood the internet polls, resulting in ludicrously skewed results. If they were choosing the next flavor of Mountain Dew this might work, but we have actual elections with actual polling places, and when people go to these polling places and cast their votes, Ron Paul doesn't win.
And every presidential election year, when that inevitably happens, the ronbots blame the media for their candidates shortcomings. When really, they should blame themselves, for confusing fantasy with reality.
What do I have against Ron Paul? Well, he's opposed to reproductive choice (not just abortion, but federal funding for birth control, condoms, stuff like that), he's opposed to gay marriage, he's opposed to the separation of church and state, he's opposed to the EPA and controlling industrial pollution, and he's opposed to the minimum wage. I have my reasons.
Nobody I have spoke to LIKES the MSM telling us Ron Paul isn't 'worthy of support' Their JOB is to report the news NOT LIE ON THE POLES AND IGNORE THE FRONTRUNNERS no matter who that may be. This is the response to that :P I believe Ron Paul is a plant to get us to destroy the system bringing down America's power which is exactly what the elite want so we can be enslaved and I would like to say that MSM/CNN/FOX ....have children who will be enslaved in this same system they are trying to create 'for profit' by accepting the 'money for commercialism' .... greed is the destruction of America and the reason they are succeeding is because of MSM and their going to put up news that isn't true just for the Elite to enslave them and rid them of fair and balanced NEWS.... ruining our 1st amendment that protects yourselves is ignorant....sorry MSM it's the truth and every time you do it you are destroying your own children's future's, if freedom is anything you want for them.
Too bad the commentators don't actually pick our presidents. It's probably best that they leave it up to the voters, and it would appear that the voters are not listening to the media...
The Revolution is catching on...
They did. They voted.
If the media favorite doesn't do well, and he's not, it must be a vast right wing conspiracy...
jabbausaf, guess who got the previously unknown, voted "present" senator and current commander-in-chief elected? Chris Hughes.
We all constantly lament about how our goverment is doing things the wrong way constantly. It is time for a change. A real change. I believe Ron Paul represents that change.
@21stCentury how hard did that horse kick you in the head? There's no incentive for making sure your planes don't get hijacked? What is wrong with you? Even if they don't care at all about the safety of their passengers, pilots, and flight attendants, don't you think the PR alone would cost them millions if something were to happen? Don't you think there's a marketing incentive to make their planes safer than others? Don't you think that if a plane were hijacked and crashed somewhere that the cost in insurance payouts as well as the lost equipment and fuel is an incentive? I really want to just go off on you right now but I'm trying not to swear so I don't know how much of the frustration your stupidity is giving me is really coming through.
@Jabbausaf - Do you really not think the media plays a role in these elections? Do you really think that if a particular candidate is ignored by the media for any reason that it drastically reduces that candidate's chances? Do you really not think that if a candidate is not given a fair shake and is made out to be a loon in media coverage that that candidate is fighting an uphill battle? And if so, do you really think that WE'RE the ones who are disconnected from reality? Do yourself a favor and proceed to the nearest hospital to get your head examined.
You are free to form your own opinion and disagree with Ron Paul all you want, and that doesn't make you stupid or crazy. But what DOES make you stupid AND crazy is not thinking that the media is part of why he hasn't been successful in presidential races. I mean the guy is a 12-term congressman, so obviously when people are allowed to actually hear his message it resonates with them.
Furthermore, these debates are structured in such a way that makes genuine discussion about the issues very difficult. Candidates get a limited amount of time to respond, which is understandable, but it means that they have to condense their arguments into easily digestible sound bytes. It waters down the issues and it makes the American people stupider because they are only exposed to simple arguments and not given the chance to listen to a more articulate and complex argument, like the kind Dr. Paul makes.
I don't agree with everything Ron Paul says. I am personally undecided on abortion; I think there are good arguments on both sides. But I don't think we need to be spending federal tax dollars on condoms. Condoms are neither expensive nor are they absolutely necessary. Birth control? Yes, expensive. But having sex with no condom because the girl is on the pill is dangerous, so a condom is still the best choice. If you want to have sex but don't want to shell out three bucks for a pack of condoms then you have two choices - don't have sex, or do the irresponsible thing and have it anyway. By taking that decision out of people's hands, all we're doing is continuing the practice of turning all responsibility over everything over to the government and away from the individuals in this country. And when you don't let people make their own decisions, you deprive them of the intellectual capability of being responsible about their own decisions. Responsibility comes with practice, and without it we are becoming a nation of irresponsible people. And as a former teacher I can say that with absolute confidence, because I have seen what happens when people grow up without ever having to make a decision and deal with the consequences.
I don't agree with him about the EPA either, except that the EPA has been about as effective as the FDA, which recently finally admitted that sugar substitutes can lead to brain cancer after years of silence or ignorance on the matter because enough private scientists finally started saying it. Where there are regulations, there are ways around the regulations. This goes back to the responsibility issue. Now, given that I personally have a great deal of respect for Ron Paul because I've taken the time to read his books and not just based my opinion of him on what CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News want me to see of him, I am willing to trust him enough to go along with his ideas about pollution, even if I don't fully agree with them. Clearly, you do not, so i don't expect you to go along with them. But my hunch is that you haven't read enough about what his proposed solution to that problem is, or about the solutions to the other issues you mentioned. If I'm right, then you are just basing your disagreement with him on the paradigm of American politics that so many people have bought into; there's the left and the right, and they are opposite, and each has their own solution to each problem and the party members all fall in line. You're probably not willing to consider that someone might have an idea that falls outside of one of the mainstream choices that might actually work. If I'm wrong, then I apologize. I don't mean to assume. But you should carefully consider this and make sure that's not actually what's going on in your head.
But really, though, you're way off base about the role the media plays in an election. And if you really are so blind that you can't see that, then maybe you should just sit this election out, because you'll just be voting for more of the same.
How can these sets of republicans who claim God on this side and against abortion be so anti poor. What bible are these set of people reading? Are they the people Jesus warned about when he talked about hypocrites or the richman who claimed he had done everthing right and when Jesus asked him to sell all he owned and follow him, he took off.
Fellow Americans, read between the lines. It is stupid to vote against your best interest. At this point, it should not matter whether you are a Dem. or a Republican. Let vote so that all is better of.
Hmmm, RINO neo-cons versus Ron Paul. I'll take the Constitution for $2000, Alex...
Will people please listen to Ron Paul he's the only canidate not in the pockets of big business
he may not be in corporate's pockets, but he is in an alternate reality
one issue does not make a good candidate
An alternate reality? He actually is IN reality. He is the ONLY candidate who knows what the reality of America is right now. Ron Paul understands economics, the success of free market and the ideals of our founding fathers. I think you need a reality check, AnIndividual.
But many issues and truthful ones at that - how can he be worst then anyone else. He is the best we could have and everyone should stand behind this man, no matter his age or small, small faults. No one is perfect, but he is damn close to being what this country needs, other than lots of prayers and the good Lord above.
Ron Paul 2012! The more the media tries to ignore him, the more it only confirms what most of us already know. *They* don't want someone in power who isn't part of the status quo. They can't control Ron Paul. No one is pulling his strings. He can't be bought by big pharma, like i'm willing to bet Romney & Perry have. Romney is against medical marijuana... so is big pharma.. they are against anything natural. If you can grow the cure in your backyard, that's less $ for them. Perry is all about vaccines.. There are some that are necessary, that actually prevent stuff like Polio, TB, etc.. but in La they are trying to FORCE employees to take the flu shot & make them sign a liability waiver. So, not only are we forced to take a shot we don't want in order to keep our job, they want us to waive our right to sue in the event something happens. Best part is, getting the flu shot doesn't guarantee U won't get the flu. It just means U won't get last year's strain. You can still get another strain of the virus. I never get flu shots & I never get the flu. Everyone I know that gets flu shots, still get the flu every year. Perry is just the type to get in office & play along with what the New World Order wants. 1st it's forced vaccines, then it's RFID chips, and they will claim the chips are going to be to keep the illegals out. This will all be done "for our own safety" but in the end it's our LIBERTIES that will be taken away. Wake up people! Fight the NEW WORLD ORDER!
Obama doesn't even need to campaign against any of these arrogant delusional clueless buffoons. HE's got it in the bag. What a pathetic crew of wackos... ALL of them. Ok..well actually the only ones that didn't sound like complete ASSES were Santorum and Huntsman. Man am I glad I'm a liberal. The GOP has jumped on the CRAZY TRAIN and it needs to be DERAILED.
Crazy train? did you even watch the debate? You are crazy if you vote for Obummer again, the guy has no idea how to fix the economy...if anything, he is intentionally ruining the economy. If someone were to try to ruin the economy, they would do exactly what he is doing...spend money we don't have and raise taxes. Obummer needs to go, and I'll take anyone of those GOP candidates over him. Hopefully Perry, Cain, Newt or Bachmann, but Perry is the only one of those four that has a chance. Wake up buddy, Obummer is a disaster and needs to go.
I don't agree with him on a bunch of things but I'll have to give Ron Paul this much...He was the only candidate up there who was real and stood for what he believed in. The others strike me as they'll say anything at all to win, even if they don't believe it.
The only train about to be derailed is the American economy if Obama or any of these flip flopping Republicans win the election (besides Paul).
Can you guys fix your graphs and your post debate coverage to accurately show who won the debate? Ron Paul still won and MSNBC gave him nearly nothing to work with...you should be ashamed of yourselves. Journalism is dead in this country. I'd rather to listen to documentaries from the nazi party.
Gimme a break.. most of your voters in this poll are liberals and would love to see Paul as the Republican Nominee . It would allow them to have their Obama wet dreams and not worry their long term love affair with their pimp-daddy has to end..Hate to be the messenger for your imaginary coitus interuptus nightmare ,but Ron Paul is a no brain er. It's over for Obama. Perry has it locked.
Yeah, Don I'm pretty much where you are - especially on the skewed voting and Paul as well - not as sure about Perry - not sure about his conservative credentials yet - hey, did ya hear that corvair guy's comin' after Obama again - what's his name ..... Darth Vadar ...... no no wait ...... Ralph Nadar LOL
"Steffi-
An alternate reality? He actually is IN reality. He is the ONLY candidate who knows what the reality of America is right now. Ron Paul understands economics, the success of free market and the ideals of our founding fathers. I think you need a reality check, AnIndividual."
Ron Paul, as well as the rest of these Republican Tea Party bozos, have no clue as to how to get this country moving forward. More tax cuts for the rich, eliminate all regulations, eliminate the IRS, eliminate the EPA, eliminate the Dept of Ed?
These are the ways they would create jobs, instead of putting money into the middle class, who buy the goods, that creates the demand, that causes businesses to hire more employees?
All of them should go back to school and take ECO101.
I can't believe anyone would vote for Ron Paul, he knows nothing about national security ... The Supreme leader of Iran said word-for-word he wishes to wipe Israel off the map and America is evil, yet he still doesn't care about their nuclear program... He says OPEC has no oil, when they are the #1 oil producing nations in the world and gas prices are through the the roof ... I speak to the military and they want support, he doesn't support our troops ... I Am vexed ...
pduck- you are the one that needs to go to school. o wait, you probably already did- a government indoctrination camp. Government does not produce anything! They are a drain on the economy. Taxes are taking from one person and giving to another. It is moving the resources around, NOT creating resources. Time and time again you will see private sector doing a much better job of ---well anything. Jobs are created by the private sector. Public sector jobs are an illusion of economic health. You are the one that needs an economic lesson. Plus we have done nothing but grow the government for the past umpteen years. Following your logic our economy should be booming! Ha- how's the hopey changey working for you?
There is absolutely no way Ron Paul won this debate. And there is no way he could seriously be considered a serious Presidential candidate. He is simply another "Harold Stassen" who always runs and never gets anywhere.
wasted or not he will get my vote.......
The Elites and the MSM will push to make you vote for B.O. or any of the candidates -- except Dr. Ron Paul who terrifies them. Ron Paul will end the FED/Bankster looting of America. Ron Pauls reply to Bachmann's promise of $2.00 a gallon gas in future, should she be elected, was classic. "I can give you a gallon on gas for a dime, right now -- a silver dime". That says everything you want to know about the FED and inflation.
The people who think Paul won the debate are as nuts as he is. I try to follow what he is saying but he is all over the place, the only thing I understood was get rid of all the mandates. He could never be voted in as President he needs to take some lessons from his son on how to stay with one thought at a time. Newt by far did a much better job then all of the rest of them, he would give Obama a run for his money and thats what we need a strong, confident person who can articulate the American peoples ideals and get this country back running again, but...if Sarah Palin runs I'm campaigning for her. Obama OUT 2012!
Americans only want sound bites. They won't take the time to educate themselves on the Constitution and the economy. Ron Paul knows both inside and out. He wins debates because he knows what he is talking about and he has a superb track record on the issues.
Debbie, I understood him perfectly well. He was not all over the place. He didn't have the same amount of response time, so he would try to answer/talk about previous questions during his time. He wasn't allowed to go on and on like Perry and Romney.
You just couldn't comprehend what he was talking about cause he doesn't use talking points/rhetoric like Palin and all the others. It's a form of propaganda. Having a degree in journalism, I see what's going on. It's not hard to see that the media is trying to force out Paul, and make this a race between Perry and Romney. There were hundreds of stories written hours before the debate about how this was going to be about Perry and Romney, the "front-runners".
Gallop did a poll a couple weeks ago about the Republican Presidential hopefuls against Obama. Among registered voters Romney polled ahead of Obama by a couple points, Perry tied with Obama, and Paul was merely 2 points behind Obama. Can you imagine Paul's numbers he he actually got equal time in the press? Paul can win, and if people would educate themselves, he will win.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/149114/Obama-Close-Race-Against-Romney-Perry-Bachmann-Paul.aspx
These are excerpts from Edward Bernay's book "Propaganda" written in 1928. This is the man that perfected the science of rhetoric.
"THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
...it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons—a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million—who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.
It is not usually realized how necessary these invisible governors are to the orderly functioning of our group life. In theory, every citizen may vote for whom he pleases. Our Constitution does not envisage political parties as part of the mechanism of government, and its framers seem not to have pictured to themselves the existence in our national politics of anything like the modern political machine. But the American voters soon found that without organization and direction their individual votes, cast, perhaps, for dozens or hundreds of candidates, would produce nothing but confusion. Invisible government, in the shape of rudimentary political parties, arose almost overnight. Ever since then we have agreed, for the sake of simplicity and practicality, that party machines should narrow down the field of choice to two candidates, or at most three or four.
...We have voluntarily agreed to let an invisible government sift the data and high-spot the outstanding issues so that our field of choice shall be narrowed to practical proportions. From our leaders and the media they use to reach the public, we accept the evidence and the demarcation of issues bearing upon public questions; from some ethical teacher, be it a minister, a favorite essayist, or merely prevailing opinion, we accept a standardized code of social conduct to which we conform most of the time. ..."
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html
This is the father of spin/ the father of propaganda. You learn about all this at university. People really don't understand how manipulated they are. It's sad and disgusting. This is why people think Paul can't win, cause it's been the media mantra in the last few months. And so many people fall for it. Sad, so sad.
Great post Kate. Love it.
Thank you Four Points. Just trying to awaken the sleeping herds.
Ron Paul 2012. I've heard a few negative comments on here about him.. Yea everyone has a down side. But what makes anyone better? At least he has always stood by his decisions and stuck to them no matter what people say. And what do I say? Thank god. Better than any Romney who cant even decide if he is pro-choice or pro-life. Where he is one till he wants to be elected then changes his platform so that people like him better. No thank you. I will take a polition that knows what he wants out of his terms. And doesn't change his entire platform for the public vote.
SPC. Donald Imboden Army Disabled
Ron Paul 2012. How do you ask a question about healthcare and ignore the one doctor on stage? Or how do you ask a question about foreign policy and skip the only anti-war candidate on stage? Shame on you MSNBC. We all lost tonight as your debate was not well run or organized.
It was well organized along the Carroll Quigley game plan of excluding the truth.
Mark,
What do you think about Ron Paul's foreign policies?
MSNBC tried to ignore Ron Paul, but Ron spoke up and called them out! Shame on MSNBC!
Ron Paul was ignored during the debate, but answered his questions well with the few he got. Santorum was asked more questions than Paul? Ron Paul 2012!
Ron Paul won this debate just like he has won many others (look at the last election debates). The media and those that own the media are working overtime in their attempt to ignore Congressman Paul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xEyA_5yZEM
They ignored him before and they are doing it again. Cynthia is 100% correct.
"Ben-1671313
Ron Paul won this debate just like he has won many others (look at the last election debates). The media and those that own the media are working overtime in their attempt to ignore Congressman Paul."
Why all of this fuss over Ron Paul? The American people have spoken, on several occasions and have told him that they don't want him as president. You would think that he would have gotten the message by now.
We should be wary of any candidate, who espouses simple solutions to complicated problems. Yeah, just get rid of all regulations and let capitalization flourish and that will solve all of our problems.
Businesses know best for America. Let the airlines do their own security. Bring back "buyer beware". Let them pollute as much as they want and, eventually, the marketplace will dictate that they stop polluting when their own neighbors and employees can't breath.
Let's bring back states rights and let the states decide whether a woman has the right to an abortion or whether or not to reinstate segregation and Jim Crowe laws.
Let's get rid of the Fed and let the business cycle do what it is going to do, without any Federal government intervention. And we should stop regulating Wall Street.
Ron Paul....just another Republican Party empty suit with a populist message that has no basis in reality.
Get over it. You will be stuck with Rick or Mitt as your nominee and Obama for 4 more years, unless you can come up with a better candidate than what you have now.
I will consider voting for a moderate Republican, but they are as scarce as unicorns and hens teeth.
Duck,
It looks like 19 people agree with me and you agree with yourself.
Oh, so if you don't win the first time, you're not allowed to run again? If you look at the numbers above, it appears that about half of the people here would prefer Congressman Paul to the media favorite, Rick Perry who is polling at under 15%. I'd say he's got a pretty good shot.
Yeah, if he speaks in a manner that most people can understand and keeps his promises that definitely disqualifies him. But actually we should be wary of people like you and the media that would like us to vote for their picks because "our candidate simply can't win".
Sorry, but we're not going to vote for who we're told to vote for this round.
Ron Paul 2012!!!
Two winners last night, President Obama, and Ron Paul. Unfortunately, Paul has same problem Adlai Stevenson had: he's much too intelligent for public consumption. NO GOP person last night had even ONE new, original idea---roll ALL those losers into one lump of mediocraty and Repujblicans cannot come up with a single winner against President Obama. IF there ever was a "race"--it's over folks. Our current President cannot lose in 2012. PS: There is NO one anywhere that can overcome the devisivness of attitudes in our country today, nor can any one person "rescue" the financial mess handed over to our President in 2008.
H Miller: I agree with you, to a point. First,
it's not over until it's over. It's WAY too early to say that. You may be woefully underestimating the thoughts and hearts and POWER of the American people, especially the young people and the active troops.
And secondly,
that's where you're dead wrong. The only reason we are here today talking about the things we are is because there is ONE MAN who has indeed overcome such, among ALL the people who actually know and learn about him, not by himself alone, but by uniting us that we may draw on the strengths of each other. RON PAUL speaks of freedom, for every person, regardless of their party or class or race: and RON PAUL LIVES, AND VOTES, AS HE SPEAKS! RON PAUL does not see people collectively as group, therefore he cannot divide them, neither in his mind nor outwardly; and in his presence they are at once the many and yet each uniquely one.
This country was built on the utmost sacred protection of the rights of the INDIVIDUAL, and each individual's equality as endowed by his or her creator. That is how we evolved so quickly as a one GREAT nation of many many diverse individuals, more and moreso each being allowed the freedom to succeed as well as to fail; the freedom of each to be safe in her person and her property, and each to do as he himself sees fit, as long as he does not tread upon these self same rights of any other.
Our elected leaders for the most part have turned their backs on that Great American legacy, which did usher in THE AGE OF REASON to the world. But The People have not all turn their backs! The people cry out for justice and humanity! And Ron Paul has answered.
AND, RON PAUL SPEAKS THE TRUTH. ALWAYS. EVEN WHEN IT'S INCONVENIENT AND UNPOPULAR. Only by being allowed to speak, and speaking the truth, can we begin to see ourselves, our errors and our strengths. YOUNG PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZE THIS AMAZING, AND SADLY RARE, TRAIT OF RON PAUL. By his obvious wisdom, he can be relied upon to tell us what is actually happening, and he can be relied upon to use that same wisdom to know and separate his own ego from his sworn duty to this country. And he can be relied upon to ask no person to save this county alone-- that cannot be done; but rather he has and will at every given opportunity, time and time again it has been shown that he will BOLDLY LEAD by his own example, even when it seems at first that he is all alone, he will carry on and join together with anyone and everyone to work toward the common ideal of LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
For us here who have seen and come to know the works of such a visionary man, these words are no longer empty cliche. By demonstrating REAL TRANSPARENCY AND BIPARTISANSHIP, RON PAUL has won the hearts and minds of so many people from all walks of life, everyone who actually stops, listens and learns. We learn that he has spent his life on a CAUSE, not a campaign.
Even if he does not win this last run toward the executive office, he has turned our faces in the direction of truth and the real immediately problems in this country; and so the young people CAN AND WILL carry on now. By his 40+ yrs of writing & speaking to the youthful populations, regardless of vote eligibility, Ron Paul has already set us on a path to healing: RON PAUL has ALREADY WON!
And finally,
In the spirit of Ron Paul Truth, I must say, yes, no single person can fix all the problems we have within such a short term. Every president in my voting lifetime --(I'm 45yrs old and have always voted in all elections since I was of age)-- every single president has had a hand in this mess and current self-destructive path we are on as a nation. But we must start somewhere! The plain truth is that Obama did NOT start anywhere near a path to hope or change. He continued some of the most detrimental of the previous administrations' policies, and he has even re-doubled some of those and dealt a few more CRUSHING blows of his own.
I would ask of all Americans, that they listen to the educated minds and hearts and untainted spirits of our nation's youth, and our active troops: please let them have this choice in their own future path. They are much wiser than we may know, and they would be so very uplifted if their voices were heard!
But, regardless of this one election we have what we need, in no small way, but in large part due to the life and times of Dr. Ron Paul, we now have what we need to overcome.
FREEDOM UNITES ALL PEOPLES ! PAUL/KUCINICH 2012 !!!
Newt's ideological belief that a smaller government provides more freedom for its people.
He understands History in politics. Those that dont...are doomed to repeat it.
He will be an excellent debater and will stay on point. I doubt he would absolutely need to have a teleprompter to give a speech on any subject he believes.
Newt is wiser than most...and he can talk in simple everyday English--- he will bring America together again ala The Gipper
Will he be elected, no, because folks can only see his baggage and not his strong leadership ability.
akel....I agree. I personally despise Newt, but he did seem at ease and confident and certainly seemed to have good answers to the few questions he was asked. His experience showed. I still would not vote for him but I think his performance will keep him in the race a lot longer.
Newt is like a coach whose team is down 49-3 in the fourth quarter. Doesn't matter much what you do, so you might as well have some fun.
Newt can speak as though he knows something but alas it is the same old untruthful statements! Truth please!
Newt is very knowledgeable and excellent in a debate. In a debate he would do well against Obama as well. His weakness is his voting record and he had some personal issues that would be brought up. I have no doubt that if he did what he says he would do, he would make an awesome president. Unfortunately, his track record in this regard isn't stellar. Fortunately there is another candidate that has always done what he promised.
Ron Paul 2012!!!!
The Gingrich Jobs and Prosperity Plan
America only works when Americans are working. Newt has a pro-growth strategy similar to the proven policies used when he was Speaker to balance the budget, pay down the debt, and create jobs. The plan includes:
Does anyone else have a plan, or is all smoke & mirrors?
THAT's the 'plan'? Listen, you can't solve these problems with that rhetoric. Have you even looked at Ron Paul's plan? Please do take a look, and you'll have to look at the FULL page on EACH ISSUE. But let me just say, that nobody in US can "reform" the Federal Reserve. It is an international stock company NOT SUBJECT TO US LAW. Reagonomics?? pfft. Nixon nixed the gold standard. Everything after that is where you'll find your "smoke and mirrors". None of that balancing and 'growing the economy' and 'controlling spending' is even possible with this Fed Reserve system, and THEY ALL KNOW THAT. USA has a Treasury Dept, you know. Why not use it? END THE FED. And where's your Newt's FOREIGN POLICY?? Oh, we can't touch that now can we? You CANNOT separate FOREIGN POLICY FROM ECONOMIC POLICY, PERIOD. Where do you think all that funny money is going? THAT WHOLE LIST IS SMOKE AND MIRRORS.
Ronald Reagan, 1964, the infamous "Time for Choosing" speech, which was an endorsement of Barry Goldwater: "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing." --THAT'S THE RONALD REAGAN RON PAUL ENDORSED. (The Reagan who LOST the nomination to Ford.)
Reagan took office as President in January 1981. BUT Ron Paul, the bold unpopular TRUTH speaker, said: "Ronald Reagan has given us a deficit ten times greater than what we had with the Democrats. It didn't take more than a month after 1981 to realize there would be no changes." --and your Newt wants more of that???? (I don't think so, I think he just wanted to say "Reagan".)
Oh, and PS: Reagan in 1983 sent Marines into Lebanon and later expressed regret in his memoirs: "I never realized the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics".
BRING THE TROOPS HOME!!!
I can't believe this stuff. Nobody, not even law makers, are expected to read or write anymore?? Is this a contest to see who can SOLVE THE COUNTRY'S PROBLEMS IN 400 WORDS OR LESS?
.
Anindividual / best post on the board ... this debate means nothing ... it's way to early to draw any meaningful conclusions ... all have a good day ...
That's right, it's not over till it's over. Don't count the We the People out YET.
If there's anyone that could make Fox News look fair and balanced, it's MSNBC with that absurdly biased debate tonight. What did you do - throw 3 awful questions at Ron Paul compared to 25 to that idiot Huntsman? He won 69 votes in Iowa Straw Poll!
This debate should be called the "Perry and Romney Show". They got more face time than all the other candidates combined. Paul held up well despite being asked loaded questions. Meanwhile the two media darlings got softball questions. What a joke!
THE FIGHT IS FIXED, EB! If Ron wins they will kill him.
He wouldn't make it past election night, even if he had a bat's chance in hell at winning, a bizarre accident would take place. There are people that take care of problems like Ron Paul, to stop his BS from infecting the economy!
And the r3VOLution would turn into a REVOLUTION without the LOVE!
MSNBC & Politico, I don't even know where to begin. From your complete lack of fairness to the candidates, to your questions (If you can even call them that... more like attacks on certain people and open ended on others), I really would like to know how you can consider yourself a credible news source. I think you maybe should have advertised this as a Mitt Romney and Rick Perry jerk off commercial, that would have been much more accurate. Maybe next time, give the other candidates a fair chance to respond in EQUAL amounts.
P.S. - The media can @!$%# off.
The majority of the time was given to the candidates who were the current front runners in the polls. the media may influence this somewhat but they don't create public opinion. MSNBC gave the time and questions to the candidates they thought viewers wanted to hear from. In the end its about viewer ratings and they did what they thought would give them higher ratings. Like it or not, as of September 7th Romney and Perry were winning the polls by a landslide. If this debate changes public opinion in favor of another candidate then he or she will likely receive more time in the next debate. The fact is no one wants to hear from the lesser candidates because they won't make. They aren't important until they get a significant following in the polls.
They really do worship Ronald Reagan don't they ! As far as I am concerned, his thinking is what led us down the road to fiscal disaster and a mushroom cloud of debt, but they actually worship him.
Finally some honesty.... Ron Paul's statement about supporting Reagan's message but not what transpired under his administration was tacit admission that the Republican party is enamored with the myth of Reagan rather than the reality.
"MM-584706
They really do worship Ronald Reagan don't they ! As far as I am concerned, his thinking is what led us down the road to fiscal disaster and a mushroom cloud of debt, but they actually worship him."
The Republican candidates like to give lip service to Ronald Reagan, but if Ronny were running today, he could not get the nomination because he is too liberal, compared to this bunch of Right Wing loonies. The Tea Party would toss him out on his ear.
What! Really? Ronald Regan helped create more wealth for this Nation as a whole than had been created in the 200+ years before him. He also worked with Mikhail Gorbachev to prevent World War 3!!!
So if you guys are mad at Reagan, you must REALLY hate Obama.
The worship stems from a complete distortion of the facts. He did not cut taxes and he raised the debt. He is given credit for cutting taxes and reducing the debt which just isn't true. Denial is not a river in Egypt!
WOW- I like the Ron Paul supporters- Ron Paul has zero chance of getting the nomination but it is nice to see that his supporters are having fun with this poll and the comments. I think when Ron Paul was speaking that Reagan was turning over in his grave.
Ron Paul has zero chance of getting the nomination lol ........well hang on to your seat and get ready for the Ron Paul 2012 white house ride...... People are tired of the same old BS year after year
michael54: "I think when Ron Paul was speaking that Reagan was turning over in his grave." You need to look up some history. They were friends, they were both friends of Goldwater, and they stood on the Goldwater conservative platform. Reagan was not able to stay on that path. Ron Paul cannot be swayed, this much he has already proven. Ronald Reagan AND Nancy Reagan were proud to see ONE TRUTHFUL TRUE CONSERVATIVE in the Reagan Library.
Where do I vote on this web site?
Ron Paul, the real deal, the rest are statist and will continue to drive the U.S. into a deeper hole.
Ron Paul, the real deal? So was Jim Jones and you should remember how that worked out for his Kool-aid drinking followers.
Same as the Obama Kool-aid you drink in 2008 I bet
If Republicans go with Ron Paul, they will easily win due to cross-over votes. With anybody else, Republicans will lose again. I am a life-long Democrat, but Ron Paul is clearly the most intelligent and thoughtful politician to come to Washington in decades. More importantly, he is right on his assessment on all of the ailments of our country, and the cures. I would vote for Paul in a heartbeat!
I have the exact same story and will assert the same message until he either wins it, or the power structure silences him.
You guys make me so proud! I know Democrats, Independents, Undecided and the Anti War voters will come to the table before it's all said and done.
Ron paul has it right on the wars. Everything else he's a selfish nut.
Bryandb,
I think the oppsite. How is he selfish?
the media fears paul's message . what's so scary about integrity and liberty ? funny how both sides are afraid of letting the truth be told.
I suppose we should privatize the FAA because it's not in the constitution. Flying in a plane under the direction of the lowest bidder controlling air traffic gives me real warm feeling. Paul lives in a parallel universe but I suppose those who support him will still be pushing for his presidency after he's dead.
Well, the air traffic controllers are already sleeping and drinking on the job under government supervision, how much worst can it get, plus they are piling up rights to pensions, benefits and too much in the way of union perks that they don't deserve for sleeping and drinking on the job. Maybe privitization isn't such a bad idea there ART- FART!!@!!
How dare any of you liberal scum reporters at MSLSD set foot anywhere near the Reagan library.
Against your best wishes, Ron Paul clearly won the debate.
Reagan looks fondly down from heaven! Yes, I said something religious in America! You wanna force me into submission into being an atheist? MAKE ME!
Art, who has more incentive to keep the planes from crashing or being blown up, government bureaucrats or airports? Government bureaucrats or the owners of the airplanes?
"Tavius Sims
Well, the air traffic controllers are already sleeping and drinking on the job under government supervision, how much worst can it get, plus they are piling up rights to pensions, benefits and too much in the way of union perks that they don't deserve for sleeping and drinking on the job. Maybe privitization isn't such a bad idea there ART- FART!!@!!"
Yep, just when you thought that airline safety couldn't get any worse, some idiots actually propose that we privatize the FAA. If that happens, then a couple of sleeping or drunk air traffic controllers will be the least of our worries.
Hey, why not just eliminate the FAA and let the airlines provide for their own safety, as well as their own security?
Get the Federal government out of the airline business and save the taxpayers billions of dollars. I'm sure the flying public is on your side, especially if they can save a few bucks on an airline ticket.
"Jason-4052829
How dare any of you liberal scum reporters at MSLSD set foot anywhere near the Reagan library."
Most conservatives, today, consider Ronald Reagan to be "liberal scum", although they don't announce it publicly.
So why don't you vote for Ron Paul in the primary? That way if he wins the nomination you can vote for him the general election too. Don't tell me your afraid to cross party lines, I do it all the time because I base my vote on the person not the party
Exactly right tommy. Anyone who is registered as a democrat or independent needs to register as a republican before their states primary so they can help get Ron Paul the republican nomination and then the presidency. Don't wait, do it soon before you forget.
'Puddle Duck'
Damn right, Duck! The blinsdspot that causes so much fear in those who don't get Dr Pauls message about REAL free market reform is nothing more than a 'boogey-man' knee jerk reaction caused by keying in on the media driven soundbyte, instead of really LISTENING to what Ron Paul says about the subject in it's entirety.
None of his bold reforms would even be able to happen without other supporting reforms to ensure the desired effect. Take the TSA or FAA. (First of all, he NEVER said we couldn't have them if we wanted them...you see he does NOT want to 'rule' over us....but this is tangental to the point I'm getting at.)
OK. The part about letting the airlines handle their own security that is missed is this; Ron Paul says individuals and corporations MUST be accountable for their actions/neglect. Gov't regulation does NOT ensure greater safety. It actually shields the corporations, (whose LOBBYISTS actually craft the legislation to FAVOR THEMSELVES, and stiffle real competition)....remember the investment bank bailouts? from having to be liable or only liable to a minor degree. Under Dr Paul, government does not shield 'business' from liability, but makes them responsible. Remember, individuals have the right, through a REAL court system to bring a company doing harm to its knees.
Play the game the constitutional, free market, Ron Paul way, and see how fast the corporations step into line. The other path is suicide. They will design security and safety systems that will not alienate passengers, and provide a degree of safety that the FAA and TSA can't even DREAM of!....and their employees will be top notch, unlike the public employees who couldn't get jobs securing their local grocery store.
With the understanding that it requires the parts of the system to WORK TOGETHER, instead of against each other,(which is how we got the Dept of Homeland Security....remember, no communication or cooperation between the various federal police agencies FBI, CIA, NSA etc.) it is far beyond me to understand just what is so 'scary' about Dr Pauls ideas
Well said AUricle. I listen to liberal talk radio on Sirius XM, and they do not seem to fully understand the actual free market system that libertarians champion. I think that the smart ones do understand, but then they would not be able to push their communist, um I mean "progressive" ideas. Regulation and gov control is a stepping stone to Communism. This is what socialism is according to Marx and Engels, the transition from Capitalism to Communism. I call our current market system Corporate Socialism, with concepts of "Too big to fail." But in actuality it's more like a strange marriage between socialism and fascism.
What gets me is, liberals and those on the mainstream right say libertarians want anarchy, cause they espouse smaller government. The truth is both sides of the isle want the largest gov they can get; Because they want control. They might take different paths, but the destination is the same. And libertarian tea party types (not the fake Tea Party Express that the Republican party is using to become relevant again, but the true first Ron Paul Tea Party types) scare the crap out of both mainstream big gov politicians and their media mouthpieces.
What I find ironic is, if one reads the works of Marx and Engels, one will see that the ultimate goal of communism is to have no government. So in essence, if one takes to heart the philosophies of Marx and Engels, then they are in fact an anarchist. Yet people are so stuck in the socialism transitional part of the Marx/Engels utopia that they can't imagine life without a huge overbearing regulating gov machine. They're so scared of corporations that they'll give everything over to gov in exchange for gov control.
I think some regulation can be an asset to society, but I see the problems/corruption that comes with controlling such regulation and the "revolving door" between such bureaucracies and corporations. And as you pointed out the lobbying that comes into play as well.
Winners: Romney, Gingrich, Cain
Loser: The commentators
The analysis after the show must not have been about the debate. I did not see the same debate they were discussing. It looks like they were trying to make news not report it. There comments were totally misrepresented and take out of context. Debate good. After debate comments by MSNBC poor
Hank Blackmon
What I've been hearing from a lot of people who aren't brainwashed kool-aid drinking Ronbots is that Romney won it. If the Republicans manage to be smart enough to nominate Romney, they'll probably win.
What I've been hearing from a lot of people who aren't brainwashed kool-aid drinking Romneybots is that Paul won it. If the Republicans manage to be smart enough to nominate Paul, they'll probably win.
*Fixed (See what I did there???)
Romney shows his ignorance by defending Perry's Executive Order mandating all girls, before they enter the 6th grade, be experimented on with Gardasil... a Vaccine for a Sexually Transmitted Disease. And why was it only Girls that he and Merck wanted to experiment on, especially given the significantly higher risk of genital warts and anal cancer caused by HPV among gay men?
And it is fiction that there was an easy 'opt out'... the executive order (so graciously) allows parents to "to submit a request for a conscientious objection affidavit form" i.e. Submit a request for a FORM to be considered by the Executive-On-High. s/news/executive-order/3455/
NOT TRUE!!!!
There was indeed an easy opt out...all you had to do was tell the doctor "NO" and sign a form that showed you are opting out....I know personally due to fact I have 3 girls and 1 boy. Please get your "facts" straight before posting.
yea but what they didn't say that the vaccinations killed girls.. people will often take a doctors advise, 46 people did there kids all died. even after that Perry tried to amend it into law before it was slapped down by the legislator after the fact the fact that the kids died. that's why there was a overwhelmingly amount of support against it. go do your research.
Wolfgang - Ron Paul is a doctor.
From the CDC website
Reports to VAERS Following Gardasil®
As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination: 17,958 reports among females and 346 reports for males, of which 285 reports were received after the vaccine was licensed for males in October 2009. VAERS received 423 reports of unknown gender. Of the total number of VAERS reports following Gardasil®, 92% were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious.
Deaths
As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil® . There were 54 reports among females, 3 were among males, and 11 were reports of unknown gender. Thirty two of the total death reports have been confirmed and 36 remain unconfirmed due to no identifiable patient information in the report such as a name and contact information to confirm the report. A death report is confirmed (verified) after a medical doctor reviews the report and any associated records. In the 32 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine and some reports indicated a cause of death unrelated to vaccination.
The facts are a lot worse than that, your are just noting the US deaths, not worldwide. Over 12,000 women have had negative effects from this shot worldwide.
12,000 negative effects among the world you say? And thats out of how many doses? Because in the U.S. 35 million doses with only 68 deaths constitutes barely even a percentage of those vacinated. There will always be risks with any form of medicine. Can't please everyone.
While the press has tried to ignore Ron Paul, they won't be much longer,since his ideas are winning over not just Republicans but Independents as well.
Puddle Duck,
OK. You're a Perry lackey. I see now.
"35 million doses DISTRIBUTED"
Do you believe there are even 35 MILLION 12 year old girls here in America?
'Distributed' means nothing. I assume you are trying to show how "low risk" the vaccination is.
Just because you have pharmacutical reps doling out millions of doses to doctors, does not mean those doses have been ADMINISTERED. In fact, the real 'dosages administered' /to deaths from the drug ratio, would give ANY parent pause. Perry sold out to big pharma. No matter how he tries to soft peddle it.
Just like he'll cave to 'big banka'. See the following: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/19/300026/caught-on-tape-bank-of-americas-director-of-public-policy-tells-rick-perry-well-help-you-out/
So does this mean that Pres. Obama won't get millions from the banksters like his last election? I bet the banks give both big gov politicians millions, just to cover all bases, so that they have their man, no matter who wins. You know who doesn't get millions from large corporations? Yep, Ron Paul.
What gets me about Rick Perry is that he's just like Palin and all these other mainstream Republicans who jumped on the Tea Party Train in order to appeal to conservatives and independents who were/are tired of mainstream politics. So after Ron Paul got the train steaming down the tracks, the political bums hopped on for a ride, and wrote books and started talking like Paul. It's all fake people. Palin is a fake, Perry is a fake, Romney is a fake, Bachmann is a fake, and Obama is a fake. Only Ron Paul walks the walk.
I agree, landolincoln1 - whether you agree or disagree with Paul on the issues, he may be the only candidate not in someone's pocket. He stands firm for his convictions and hasn't changed his mind about anything that I can recall. But the media won't give him the time of day.
Julshep,
What do you think about his foreign policies?
Thetotas I'll tell you about Ron Paul's foreign policy..he is dead on. Bring our troops home. Stop being the police force for the world. Mind our own business. We have enough problems of our own then to involve ourselves in everyone elses affairs. Border patrol? Bring our troops home and have them secure our borders. Ron Paul is the smartest most qualified candidate out there, He's a doctor for Godsake. And if you think we can continue to print money and spend our way out of debt, your out of your f'ing minds. There is absolutely nothing backing the dollar. That is the true Ponsi sceme. Ron Paul is so far above these other clowns it's not even funny. The Main Stream Media is a joke. The internet can get Paul elected. Thought news was suppose to be impartial. They will not be able to ignore Ron Paul forever. He has a huge following and getting bigger all the time. There plan to highlight others will end up backfiring as it is proving to everyone how biased they are. RON PAUL 2012!!
AMEN!