The Loyal Opposition is no more:

I can remember a time when the “Loyal Opposition” was in fact, loyal. It didn’t matter if a Republican or Democrat lived in the White House; the minority party was still loyal. Those were the days when in spite of differing political opinions, both parties put the country first. There was no talk about wanting a President to fail or a political party having their number one goal defeating the current President in the next election.

Today there is a ton of evidence that opposition party is no longer loyal. Shortly after President Obama’s inauguration Rush Limbaugh was on talk radio saying he wanted President Obama to fail. What happens to the country did not seem to matter; the conservative right was committed to doing all it could to make Obama a one-term president.

If it had to do with stabilizing the economy with TARP money, Republicans were against it. If it had something to do with jobs creation, Tea Party Republicans were not interested. If it had something to do with educating our children to be more competitive in the world, the Republicans said we couldn’t afford it. If it had something to do with raising the debt ceiling so America could pay its bills, the conservatives preferred to hold Americans hostage by voting against the increase. If it had something to do with closing some corporate tax loopholes so we would have money to fix our roads and bridges, Republicans favored supporting their corporate masters, and were willing to let our roads crumble into potholes and our bridges fail.

So if the GOP/TP is no longer the traditional political party of Ronald Reagan that once believed in being the loyal opposition, what has it become? Sadly, it has become an intensely ideological authoritarian party committed to limiting a government that was Constitutionally designed to serve all Americans. Its tenets come from the likes of Ayn Rand; its money comes from billionaires like the Koch brothers and international corporations, and its message is delivered by Fox News and talk radio. It’s not the GOP/TP candidates that concern me; it is their ideas and beliefs.

AnaBanana-1782128

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!"

This was the start of a lefty liberal post whining about Romney’s jobs plan yesterday. It would also fit very well as the first sentence in a post about what it appears Barry’s plan will be in tomorrow’s “new jobs” speech. Everything I read seems to indicate it will be a Mini-Me version of the failed 2009 Porkulus bill. The only thing that’s different is that “shovel ready projects” will be rebranded as “infrastructure spending”.

You’re doin’ a heck of a job, Barry.

From Politico:

Obama jobs plan has $300B price tag
By: Tim Mak
September 7, 2011 06:02 AM EDT

With the economy struggling and his reelection campaign gearing up, President Barack Obama plans to propose a jobs package worth $300 billion to boost the economy, mostly in tax cuts, infrastructure spending, and direct aid to state and local governments, according to reports on Wednesday.

The two central measures to be taken in the package will be a one-year extension of a payroll tax cut, and an extension of expiring jobless benefits, according to the Associated Press. These two measures alone would total around $170 billion.

Obama will also consider a tax benefit to those businesses that hire the unemployed, with a price tag of around $30 billion. Public works projects will also be included, but the AP reports that this will be less than $50 billion of the package.

The president will also continue, for one year, a tax break for business that allows them to deduct the full value of equipment.

Obama will ask Congress to offset the cost of these measures by raising tax revenue in later years, as part of a long-term deficit reduction package. However, White House spokesman Jay Carney said that he did not expect Obama to lay out a long-term deficit reduction package in his jobs speech.

Meanwhile, Republicans predicted that the jobs speech that the president is scheduled to make on Thursday would end in failure. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said that he expected “more of the same failed approach that’s only made things worse over the past few years.”

The president is under pressure to create jobs, especially with last Friday’s jobs report, which showed the unemployment rate stagnant at 9.1 percent, and a net gain of zero jobs.

Mother Jones will reveal the keynote speaker at that Koch party, today.

Any guesses?

Also, I look forward to seeing Parry show up in his firefighter suit, tonight.

Should be one heck of a debacle - I mean debate.

So Feisty, Mother Jones claims they have some "Secret Tapes" from a "Secret Meeting" of "Wealthy Conservative Donors" and claim that Koch called Obama - Saddam Hussein.

1. Where is this "Secret Tape"?

2. So what? If he did, it was in a private setting, not even close to the very Public announcement that I heard in Detroit on Monday. 3. In this very Public setting I have seen you call for violence against Sarah Palin and littered these pages with an absurd amount of name calling including "terrorist" against public candidates and private posters.

This evening we are going to be treated to a "debate" among the Republican contenders to find their nominee. What that really means is Mitt Romney and Rick Perry. (The media have decided to exclude Ron Paul, because they know better than anyone, right?)

In any case, here's Romney who - apparently inspired by his magic underwear - is going to solve the nation's ills by creating a magic "jobs machine". If his machine is anything like the one he had when he was a "businessman", that machine will be to job creation what a chipper/grinder is to re-forestation.

He will be facing off against Perry whose nine-month-old book, Fed Up, contradicts just about everything he says today. His Texas' balanced budget that he so loves to tout makes a smoke and mirrors approach look rock solid. He couldn't have done it without the federal government - you know, the guys he hates.

What's with those two? Do they pour their brains into a blender each morning, set it to "puree", and then pour the concoction back in? It doesn't matter what they stood for yesterday. What they say today is what counts. The problem is that in 24 hours, today will be yesterday.

Now, we're told that there may be another entry into the Republican race - Chris Christie. I don't believe it myself; not after he's threatened suicide rather than running for the Presidency. Of course, there are some who might suggest that running for President is tantamount to suicide.

Given the number of entrants in the G.O.P. race, it appears we may have many more throw their hats in the ring. In fact, the only person who couldn't run for the Republican nomination - if he were alive today - would be Jesus Christ. He simply couldn't meet G.O.P. standards. He warned of the evils of money. He believed in free health care. He was concerned about the poor. He was just a rotten Republican.

After all that shakes out, the "winner" will be running against President Obama, who has made the "Hope and Change" slogan look ever so much like the standard "Lesser of two evils" choice we have had since I first started voting.

I'm willing to give him a pass on his foreign policy. In fact, I think he's doing a good job. What the media seem to miss is that he is slowly but surely isolating the most dangerous country in the world - Pakistan. Does anyone notice this is a virtual motel for terrorists, and that motel has nukes?

However, on the home front, he has given the bankers a free pass. This twenty-billion-dollar settlement doesn't even rise to the level of a slap on the wrist! They stole TRILLIONS. On top of that, state attorneys general are not allowed to prosecute. Have we forgotten that President George W. Bush did the same thing? His administration locked out local law enforcement. That worked out just great, didn't it?

The President has decided to forestall pollution regulation. What happened, did his laundry accidentally get mixed up with Romney's? Pollution is going to magically disappear?

We're told that he is going "big" with his jobs proposal - 300-billion-dollars. You're kidding, right? Big? That's nothing more than a pathetic holding action, and all it will do is add to the deficit. It is literally borrowing time - not even a year's worth.

Right now, I'd bet that the President will win re-election. His opposition is simply so incredibly horrible/scary/stupid you almost have no choice but to vote for him. That's painful for me because Mr. Obama is the first candidate I ever voted for who won at the Presidential level. You might make the case that I threw away my vote. It sure is looking like that more and more each day. I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils. That's no different than throwing my vote away - AGAIN. I won't do it.

So Feisty, Mother Jones claims they have some "Secret Tapes" from a "Secret Meeting" of "Wealthy Conservative Donors" and claim that Koch called Obama - Saddam Hussein.

Conservative dirty blogging trick #3:

Attack Attack the source. Any Liberal website or information source must be marginalized, trivialized and discounted. Let the blogosphere know that Truthout.org, thinkprogress.org,
the nation and moveon.org are Liberal rubbish propaganda. Discredit Liberal sources of information whenever possible. Confuse Challenge the Liberal position with questions,
always questions. The questions need not be relevant. The goal is to knock the Liberal poster off their game, and seize control of the narrative

2. So what?

2 sitting Supreme Court Justices are sitting in attendence when threats like this were made;

The 2012 elections, he warned, will be "the mother of all wars."

That's WHAT!

The AP is reporting that Obama is expected to propose $300 billion in tax cuts and spending.

Certainly Obama has his new piggy bank full of (borrowed) cash from Congress raising the debt ceiling by $2.4 trillion, and he aims to spend every bit of that money while at the same time burdening the costs of any program to future American taxpayers.

And what is in this "new" plan of Obama's? Over half of the $300 billion includes a tax holiday (33% reduction of what workers pay for their SS) and unemployment extensions. Sure unemployment payments create jobs, just ask Nancy Pelosi. Oh, Nancy, 0 jobs in August dearie. Just tell'n ya.

So over half the new money is to continue two old programs that haven't worked. Brilliant.

A $30 billion tax credit for businesses to hire the unemployment. That's been tried to before. No jobs.

Advocates want $50 billion for schools construction - got to give the unions something I guess. The WH said that amount will be smaller.

Another year of tax breaks to allow businesses to deduct the full value of new equipment. Just another warmedover old program, and did I say there were 0 jobs created last August. Barry my friend, it's just working.

And Obama will propose long term long term deficit reductions to pay for his spending today. We've seen that one too Barack, and we know it's a lie.

Nothing from Obama about reducting corporate tax rates. Nothing about Simpson/Bowles. Nothing about regulation reform. Nothing about entitlement reform. Nothing about a FY2012 budget that supports the payment of any of these programs. Just more nothing at all, and it costs $300 billion.

Just more of the same failed policies. Just another day in ObamaLand, more spending of money we do not have.

I guess for Obama, that's "Going Big!

How loyal were you to George W. Bush, Ron?

Didn't see a whole lot of the "Loyal Opposition" thing from the left during Dubya's Administration.

Nor, a whole lot of it from the right during the Clinton years.

Stop whining.

President Obama's supporters consistently insist that he's being treated in an unusually disrespectful manner.

Get back to me when he's been impeached.

President Obama's real problem is that he's being held accountable for the results of his leadership.

As every U.S. President has been and always will be.

Get used to it.

I know that's unbearable, especially here at First Read, but that's the way this thing works.

The link is right here, WCA.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/exclusive-audio-koch-brothers-seminar-tapes

Anyone who wishes can listen for themselves.

Mother Jones will reveal the keynote speaker at that Koch party, today.

Can't wait - OUT these treasonous bastards!

Apologies for the multiple post - the dreaded 'bubblegum' error! lol

x

x

The TP/GOP dogma about free market economics and reduced 'statism' isn't even an American idea. Everything they spout comes from a group of (dig this) Austrian immigrants. In name they are Ludwig von Mises, Friedrick Hayek, Joseph Shumpeter, Karl Popper, and Peter Drucker. Von Mises and Hayek are the 'grandfathers' of the Chicago school of free-market economics. Shumpeter is best known for his works on "creative destructive" powers of capitalism, Popper always spoke of "open society" and totalitarianism. Drucker, of course, is best known for his publications on management.

According to Hayek, high taxes inhibits growth and efficiency, governmental regulations stifles initiative and entrepreneurship, the smaller the state the healthier the society and so forth (sound familiar?). So, when they spout their pablum, they are echoing a debate that took place over 70 years ago. It was flawed then and its flawed now. Proof of this is: the numerous banking, mortgage, private finance and hedge fund scandals.

Keep in mind that behind every banking executive and trader is an economist, assuring them that from a position of unchallenged intellectual authority that their actions are publicly useful and should in any case not be subject to any form of oversight. They continue to argue the very same Hayek doctrine. Our biggest problem today is that we haven't yet found a way to communicate outside of this proverbial "Hayek box." Instead, we continue on with no form of planning which results in extremist politics and economic chaos. We need to develop new language in order to free ourselves from this situation.

As John Maynard Keynes stated, "Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Mad men in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back. I am sure that the power of vested interests is vastly exaggerated compared with the gradual encroachment of ideas."

Geez, Feisty, again with the Saul Alinsky stuff? I thought you might be done with that? Show me where I attacked the source. I asked where is the tape?

Is that not a fair question? If they publish a report about a tape, shouldn't we expect that it exists and could be listened to by the public?

If not, something stinks, and the coincidence of this report coming up for the Left moments after Hoffas remarks is just astounding.

WCA: So Feisty, Mother Jones claims they have some "Secret Tapes" from a "Secret Meeting" of "Wealthy Conservative Donors" and claim that Koch called Obama - Saddam Hussein

Senator Ted Kennedy did the same calling Obama "Osama". Just a slip of the tongue.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YaRpx3LphI

WCA: Is that not a fair question? If they [Mother Jones] publish a report about a tape, shouldn't we expect that it exists.

Not in LibbyLand where innuendo, rumors, and lies fuel the mindless Libs past the brink of total hysteria.

$300 Billion isn't enough I agree. President Obama can be too damn conservative. People need to get back to work. We don't care about tax cuts. We need jobs for people.

We need jobs.

Other than that, I don't for one minute believe I wasted my vote. He's just too damn conservative. Where are his advisers? Who is he listening to?

I don't want to take the time to look it up, but evidently one of Romney's economists was featured in the movie "Inside Job". He's a piece of dirt.

That's what you get with Romney.

Inside Job (2010) is a documentary film about the late-2000s financial crisis directed by Charles H. Ferguson. The film was screened at the 2010 Cannes Film Festival in May and won the 2010 Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature.

Ferguson has described the film as being about "the systemic corruption of the United States by the financial services industry and the consequences of that systemic corruption."^[3] In five parts, the film explores how changes in the policy environment and banking practices helped create the financial crisis.

The question becomes, does Bachmann run as a third party candidate if Romney gets the nomination? She is, after all, a "true believer". That means she is going to have a great deal of trouble accepting that someone of a different religious persuasion, and who has been on both sides of many issues, becomes the nominee.

I finally got a chance to review what Mr. Hoffa said during the speech that had the right wing in lather. Here is what the right likes claim that Hoffa said : "Let's take these sob's out and give America back to America where we belong." Despicable, right? Over the line, purely inflammatory and encouraging violence. Until you read Mr. Hoffa's entire remark " Everyone here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these sob's out and give America back to America where we belong."

The right to vote. The right to have a voice in one's own destiny. THAT is what Mr. Hoffa was talking about. Creative editing, conspiratorial thinking, all of these are taking this nation down a path of destruction. It used to be that no matter how the personalities in leadership felt about each other, they kept in mind their first duty, which was to this nation. Their oath of office was the only oath they swore. Now, through the good offices of the far right wing, we have elected officials doing homage to EVERYTHING except their duty to this nation. That it is tolerated and expected by those on the right is something I will never understand. The founders certainly didn't see it that way, there is nothing in the Constitution that mandates loyalty to special interests, their expectation was an oath of fidelity to this NATION. All of us. Left, right and independent. We have lost something very dear, and I wonder if we can get it back?

Didn't see a whole lot of the "Loyal Opposition" thing from the left during Dubya's Administration.

Nonsense.

Democrats didn't procedurally die up the entire Congress to make sure no business was done.

Democrats didn't crash the nations credit rating because it's "a hostage worth taking."

Democrats didn't put holds on HUNDREDS of Bush political appointments just to hinder the Administration.

Great Rovian tactic -- accuse the opposition of what you're doing.

$300 billion in new stimulus spending?

Forget about whether that'll pass muster with the right... worry about what Krugman's going to say about a paltry, trifling, mere $300 billion in new stimulus spending.

Maxine wants at least $1 trillion.

Krugman's number is almost certainly far closer to hers.

Thanks for the Link John B. Glad the tape exists, I go again to points 2 and 3 in my first post.

Now that this "Shiny Object" for Feisty has been reported, I am sure I can expect you all to beat it to death today.

Again, No comparison between a private meeting and a very public introduction for the President of the United States.

Now, about that speech tomorrow........

Private sector production creates wealth and jobs, not government "stimulus." That's why the president's speech tomorrow will be a snoozer. Are you ready for some football instead?

Riight, it was a "slip of the tongue" to call Barack Obama "Saddam Hussein." The names are so similar one could hardly help doing so.

Welcome back newday . . .you were missed!

Joe in Albany,

Thanks for reposting a favorite "Republican" quote. Wish they would do what they say but Wisconsin's Walker is living proof that what they say and what they do are two different things. They say the popular stuff and do whatever the Koch Brother and ALEC tells them to do in favor of corporate America. I am disappointed in Obama's jobs plan. I don't think it is enough and it will be weakened even more by Congress. Nothing bold about this. Wish he would do something bold. Well, at least he keeps us safe. No "deer in headlight look" from this man.

Can't wait for the debate tonight. It's popcorn time. No softballs from NBC. Let's see who out crazies whom tonight.

Missed you too Nash, like crazy!

Romney's jobs "plan" announced yesterday was nothing but a re-hash of the Grover Norquist stock line. He offered absolutely nothing new - we've tried that garbage for 30 years, and look at the mess the world is in. Expect to hear a chorus of the same, tonight, at the so-called debate.

Mainly, we can expect a lot of petty posturing as the candidates attempt to define the marginal differences among them, and attempt to negatively define their opponents. The old Republican Party is dead, it seems, and the new one is committing hara-kiri in public.

By the time the GOP convenes in Tampa next August, there is a real possibility of a repeat of the 1912 convention. Then incumbent Taft won renomination, but Teddy Roosevelt bolted from the party, establishing himself as an alternative candidate under the "Bull Moose Party" banner. This time, either a moderate GOP wing may bolt, or the Tea Party, following its theme of the politics of disaffection, could separate and name its own rival candidate.

The GOP has nothing this time.

WCA: Thanks for the Link John B. Glad the tape exists, I go again to points 2 and 3 in my first post.

Now that this "Shiny Object" for Feisty has been reported, I am sure I can expect you all to beat it to death today.

Why? The Left did have any problem with Hoffa physically threating the Tea Party. Why would they be upset about anything the Koch's say?

No comparison between a private meeting

It was private alright - in fact, so private that Gov. Scott & Gov. Perry denied attending.

neither Perry nor Scott initially disclosed the trip to their constituents. A Perry spokesman acknowledged his attendance only after the Austin American-Statesman tracked the tail number of a plane belonging to one of the governor's top donors from Texas to Colorado. He described the summit as a "private gathering of business leaders

Now why do you suppose that is?

Aren't sitting Governors required by law to disclose their locations at all times?

Shoot - maybe they were pulling a Mark Sanford! ;o)

Well NDD-R, you all keep hoping for a third party candidate, it will be your only hope.

The desperation here from the left is pretty thick.

Probably didn't think when you had to sign up for that new account, that you put an "R" after your abbreviated name, eh?

John B.-

Glad you brought it up.

Whatever happened to the bleating by Democrats in the U.S. Senate majority about changing the procedural rules regarding the filibuster for the new 112th Congress? The ones they used to insist were so subject to abuse?

Haven't heard Senate Democrats complaining much about that recently.

Have you?

I'm suspecting hypocrisy is at the bottom of this, John B.

Just as it's at the bottom of whining about the "Loyal Opposition".

Feisty 2 xs, one more and you will have triple x, are you sitting in your birthday suit this am? what gives

Not allergic to "R"s WCA. But I enjoyed the chuckle, thanks.

So spending $4 trillion in deficit spending in 2.5 years hasn't worked to create jobs, but spending another $300 billion on the same things will work?

Where's Krugman? He needs to explain this.

DD, thanks for that excellent, concise treatment of the background of the Tea Party ideological background. It is also discussed in considerable length in Naomi Klein's fine and very readable book, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism.

The Austrian school - and subsequently Friedman and the Chicago School - were heavily influenced by Ayn Rand. A branch of the Austrian school today is known alternatively as the "economic anarchy" school of thought.

Their record is one of misery and disaster everywhere.

Aren't sitting Governors required by law to disclose their locations at all times?

_______________________________________________

Nasty: Can you be specific about which law do you think requires such a disclosure??

As much as the lefty liberals would like it, I don't think we have become Soviet Russia yet.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DummyD, informative post; well done. You brought up some names long forgotten but quite relevant to the GOPTP thinking of today.

Tonight will be the same old worn out argument of lower taxes for the so called job creators,. But, anyone with half of a brain knows that the Republican-Tea Potty Plan is nothing more than the same failed Voodoo Economics.

I get so tired of the right wing argument to have smaller government, cut spending and the American People have spoken. It's all bull crap. First of all the United States is not a country that can operate with small government.

We need a big government to manage the events going on here in our country while being involved in the events around the world that can affect us all. The problem we have is that we have to manage big government a heck of a lot better then we are currently doing so now, and stop the perks to the special interest.

As I said before, it was proven by FDR that we have to spend money within our country for growth. So, where do you cut spending? To listen to the right it is social programs and cut taxes. Well, again more bull crap. We have the super rich and the dirt poor, with the middle class being pushed to the category of the dirt poor, while the rich get richer, with their perks and level low taxes they pay. Remember budget cuts mean job cuts.

So, quit giving all of the perks to the rich and please bring back the Clinton era take levels and quit playing these games. Then do away with the tax subsidies that the tax payers give big oil and companies that ship jobs overseas.

Then of course you will also hear the same old social issues debate being bought up that really don't matter to the majority of the American People.

Gosh, how long will these sheep continue to follow this same old Republican-Tea Potty failed plan?

Well, someone said there were going to be some kind of debates tonight at the Reagan Library. Is there really, or is there going to be some folks on stage, taking every shot at Obama that they can think of? Kind of like what we see every day on here, from the No Jo’s and Joe Albany’s and Joanna Smiths. Since the day he took office, all they ever have done is criticize and ridicule, without even waiting to see if anything he did or said proved to be positive. Hell, just look at the moniker “No Jo No Bo”-She wasn’t even going to wait to see how well or not the President did.

And by the way: I understand K Street has some significant ties to the ‘debate’ panel, too. Hmmm…..

Will tonight be anything different? Oh, sure, they’ll all say “if I win, I’M gonna do X, Y, Z…” then, fail or refuse to explain just how they plan to do it. Either that, or if they do explain, it will be more of what got us into this mess in the first place.

Anyway, that’s my humble prediction. Let the Great ‘Dickweed Debates’ begin.

Rick Perry attended the "secret" Koch Brothers meeting and kept it a secret from Texans, put nothing on his schedule. Trouble is Perry forgot one thing and the Texas media tracked the plane's tail number (the plane Perry generally uses) and followed him to Colorado. Only then did Perry admit where he was.

Job 1 -

You brought up some important points, and also brought back to mind the theme that Mitt Romney took yesterday. He claimed he was going to focus on the middle class.

But he made a mistake. The middle class is not the primary recipient of his proposed largesse in eliminating taxes on capital gains, interest and dividends. Nope that's the upper-middle class folk.

What Romeny really porposed was to further impoverish the middle class. He brought up the same old tired garbage that has afflicted America for 30 years and reduced the earnings and asets of the middle class.

Yeah, Romney targeted the middle class with his proposals - he painted a great big bull's eye on the middle class, and hefted an elephant gun he wants to shoot on his first day in office.

So true John. Thanks

"Let the Great ‘Dickweed Debates’ begin"

Drive By, I just blew coffee through my nose.

This is the same as the Rove hollywood manuscript! Made up smoke and mirror stuff people move on....nothing important here! Now if any of the Liberals were watching The Today show must have blown up over the comments about Mr. Obama made by Tom Brokaw! Oh yea Feisty I actually went to the speech since it was a hop skip and a jump to Union Central! Aretha was great as usual, and even though Mr Hoffa's "fiery" lol speech was "gasp" fun to watch, considering how his dad met his demise! The one thing I did notice and I confirmed this, by yep chatting with a Union Steward that after the speech that the Detroit Public employees union would be cleaning up all the trash that was strewn all over the plaza...... and since it was a holiday, you guessed it double time! Gotta love the care and love of the environment by those pesky unions!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Imagine my surprise when I found this article on what goes on behind closed doors at the notorious semi-annual Koch Brothers retreats.

Sorry, Feisty. The mainstream media has chosen not to cover this story, so it can't be of any importance. The story about Hoffa using language far less violent than Bachmann, Palin or Perry, is the nontroversy of the day that we must all obsess about. Jake Tapper spent several minutes badgering Obama's press secretary about it at yesterday's press conference. Jobs crisis? What jobs crisis?

The teeth gnashing from the right yesterday regarding Mr. Hoffa's remark was amusing given the fact that heated, hateful rhetoric from the right is hardly anything original.

I hate to tell you Feisty, but it is probably a lot worse. The Koch brothers probably even walk around in the boxers, scratch themselves, fart, take dumps in their "private" homes.

How big a moron do you have to be to not understand the difference between what is said in private "secret" meetings and what is said in front the national news media?

How big an idiot do have to be not understand th difference between campaigning as the Great Unitier, lecturing America ......

"We should be civil because we want to live up to the example of public servants like John Roll and Gabby Giffords, who knew first and foremost that we are all Americans, and that we can question each other's ideas without questioning each other's love of country and that our task, working together, is to constantly widen the circle of our concern so that we bequeath the American Dream to future generations."

....... when you mock Americans for their "guns and Bibles", "slurpees", "punish your enemies", 'they can ride in the back", "alligators in moats" on and on ......... to have a Vice President that refers to Americans as "terrorists", "barbarians at the gate" ....... to lead the party whose elected representatives tell Americans to "go staight to hell", refer to the opposition as wanting to see blacks hanging from trees .....

What cosmic hypocrisy! What a pathetic political party.

Gnashing teeth? Hardly ..... we know how petty and vile libs are, especially when they are losing the debate.

Actually, it has become comical. Navy had his "Go Straight to Hell" Week a week or so ago where just about every day Old Navy quoted "Ms." Waters….." the 'tea party' can go straight to hell" and told her he agrees with her….. (he's a such a sweet guy).

"Go straight to hell, huh? …….

My first thought was …… You two of you haven't noticed where Obama has been taking us for the last 2½ years?

Second thought was …… Well, for the sake of argument …… ok ……. but ……

Can "Ms." Waters' constituents create their own jobs / support themselves?

Is Navy going to pay for all those free abortions.

Hoffa? Who does he suck his fat cat union boss salary and benefits off of without big corporations?

Weird that .......

What have you and your leaders not said about the GOPTP right?

What vile disdain has not been expressed?

What group of people on the face of Earth have you ever voiced more hate and contempt for?

....... yet you can't exist without dependence on the very people you loathe ...... you need to suck off them .... they don't need you.

God it must suck to be a liberal.

Oh well ...... carry on.

So spending $4 trillion in deficit spending in 2.5 years hasn't worked to create jobs, but spending another $300 billion on the same things will work?

Where's Krugman? He needs to explain this.

The truth is:

The actual number is 2.4 Trillion related to President Obama. Remember, Texas got 17.5 billion to balance their budget, not to mention other states. Also, 500 billion was tax cuts.

I am a bit confused by the headline to this article on the main page... "Get ready for a Perry pounding time..." And on this page you have..." All Eyes on Perry..."

It sounds to me like MSNBC is endorsing Fuhrer Perry for President. If this is not so better change the words in the headlines eh?

Ah, the "big debate" tonight. OOO, the "big speech" tomorrow.

Feisty's got her new, same as the old boogeyman and Alinsky may or not be in the house. Civility has now been tossed aside by all. Odd, cause it was just a few months ago the old NewDay blew a gasket over Palin's cross hairs. Now, Carney looked even dumber than normal yesterday trying to get away from Tapper.

We got ZERO jobs last month, $3 million in new debt a minute, and what's Obama's answer?

More Stimulus. Proof positive the last stimulus failed, and proof positive he has no new ideas. It didn't work before, we have less money to waste now, yet away we go again? huh.

That ain't good guys. Fact is, it's real bad.

So any of you libbies care to predict the market fall come Friday morning?

Obama is just going to demand more $$$ for his union thug supporters he knows his Leftist policies turning the entire country into an utter failure like Detroit means no one will vote for him unless they're on the dole like the unions.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Barack Hussein Obama the "historic" food stamp, downgrade, spending, deficit and union payoff via executive order President.

The truth in what Jimmy Hoffa said.

Watch the video

He said, "Everybody's got a vote, and let's take these SOB's out."

There is nothing wrong with that statement. So, let's take these SOB's out.

Funny I was there!

We don't need perry's thoughts, this guy sold his soul to the devil. This bible thumping dirtbag worships the rich and if he ever got into office he would piss on the middle class like he did in Texas.

"We got ZERO jobs last month,.."

Well, now- that has to include Texas, right? What has Mr Perry done to become such an 'epic fail' in just one month, "counselor"?

I hope at the debate tonight someone asks Perry whether it's odd that someone who wanted to secede from the US now wants to be its President.

Will Perry "pray" for our economy tonight?

Funny I was there!

Well then you saw and heard what I saw and heard. No bad at all.

It's just a case of fake outrage by the right wing.

The same cliff that the right wing crazies are pushing the country over.

I plan to watch the debate tonight. I have always enjoyed a good tap dance. Rick Parry is going to have to do some real hard dancing to get away from "Fed Up." Rick Parry is the leader right now, but remember 2007, Fred Thompson and Rudy Guilliani were in the respective positions of Rick and Mitt.

With any luck, sanity will return to the GOP, Jon Huntsman will be the nominee and the Tea Party will go the way of the Bull Moose Party.

Has anyone actually seen what was in Romney's plan yesterday?

Romney's Economic Plan Includes $6.6 Trillion Tax Cut For Rich & Corporations

According to our new analysis, the economic plan offered yesterday by GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney would deliver a massive $6.6 trillion tax cut that would primarily benefit the very wealthy and corporations. After accounting for the added interest costs that we’ll have to pay, the total cost of Romney’s plan grows to $7.8 trillion over the next 10 years.

Romney lays out several tax policies, all of which primarily benefit the super wealthy.

Given these facts, it is odd that Mitt Romney also supports an amendment to the U.S. constitution that would require balanced federal budgets. Romney’s plan doesn’t even come close to balancing the budget, instead resulting in unsustainable deficits and growing debt.

So, how does Romney deal with the fact that his own fiscal plan would be unconstitutional if President Romney got his way? He doesn’t. Either he hasn’t done the math, or he’s hoping you won’t notice his numbers don’t add up. Either way, it doesn’t reflect all that well on him or his economic “plan.”

http://thinkprogress.org/

_______________________________________

We'll ask yet again - where are the freakin' jobs from all the tax cuts?

This is a bogus talking point. Tax cuts do not create jobs.

I read also his plan includes getting rid of Unions. Ad Obamacare, which he instituted here in MA.

What an unbelievable creep this Romney guy is.

And then you have the other guy Perry.

Under Gov. Rick Perry (R) this year, Texas slashed state funding for the volunteer fire departments that protect most of the state from wildfires like the ones that have recently destroyed more than 700 homes.

Volunteer departments that were already facing financial strain were slated to have their funding cut from $30 million to $7 million, according to KVUE.

The majority of Texas is protected by volunteer fire departments. There are 879 volunteer fire departments in Texas and only 114 paid fire departments. Another 187 departments are a combination of volunteer and paid.

For that reason, aid from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) could be more important than ever to the state where wildfires have recently been raging.

At a press conference Monday, Perry promised to seek federal disaster relief and said that FEMA would be in the state by Wednesday.

While the Texas governor has been highly critical of FEMA in the past, he told CBS’ Erica Hill Tuesday that now was not the time to worry about reforming the agency.

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/09/texas-cut-fire-department-funding-by-75-percent-this-year/

I was hoping some of the regular FR lefty liberals would be criticizing NBC and MSNBC for sponsoring a Presidential candidates debate jointly with Politico, whom the FR lefty liberals have derided as a "right leaning" news source. Apparently NBC and MSNBC consider Politico to be a credible and responsible news organization. If it's good enough for them, it should be good enough for they FR lefty liberals.

Maybe the next debate NBC and MSNBC sponsors will be done jointly with thinkprogress.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting. All of the right wing have already divined the content, direction and details of what the President will present in his speech.

Naturally, their just-say-no attitude means they have already determined it is all bad.

And yet, not a word has been spoken.

They just followed the path created by the left wing loonies. Hey thats a repeat post about perry. I see that you are still using biased information to rant with.

Job.......nope the only thing anyone in the crowd could hear was the take them out comment, then rousing screaming and vitriolic comments. followed by about 300 Public union workers being paid double time to clean up the plaza! There were several events in that area this past year. None of them looked that bad when finished.

Well the proverbial cat's out of the bag as, the double secret guest of honor at the Koch Brothers cult gathering is none other then Govenor Krispy Kreme himself from NJ!

Hell, he even did a John Corzine impersination, who would of guess fat boy is so talented? lol

They sure do know how to put on a show... that's for sure!

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/audio-chris-christie-koch-brothers-seminar

The big jobs creation plan includes extending JOBLESS benefits and spending another 300 billion we don't have? This is the best Obama can come up with? We are in deep trouble!

Holly Hell Drive By - are you trying to be ignorant, or does it just come all natural to you?

So, brother, are you actually saying you have no idea how the jobs figures are calculates, or is it you just failed out of your statistics class.

You remember - the mean, mode and medium?

Drive By - I am really starting to get the feeling you didn't actually graduate from college.

Is that possible?

And the Roll of Shame grows longer: More Tea Party Republicans boycott the President's speech:

• Sen. Jim DeMint
• Rep. Paul Broun
• Rep. Joe Walsh
• Sen. Marco Rubio (although his absence apparently is due to his mother's illness)

These arrogant, obdurate ultra-right-wing people have no respect for the Office of the presidency, and no clue about how badly this nation needs to address serious economic issues. Their rigid ideology blinds them. Rep. Broun is expected to keep up a running, sniping commentary on Twitter, as he did during the last State of the Union address, utterly without a care for the nation.

The Tea Party - as earlier posts revealing the secret planning and financing by the Koch Brothers, et al - is indeed a "vast right wing conspiracy" shown to be an effort to change this country's basic principles. It aims to establish a cartel political economy, similar to Japan's, that borders on the economics of fascism. And just how well did that work out for Spain?

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/more-republicans-skipping-obama-jobs-speech-205144814.html

"Hiya Kids! Hiya, hiya!" Froggy

I have some predictions regarding the great debate tonight.

1. Perry will do very well. He will stick to his talking points and refuse to be baited. The crowd will go wild and immediately begin scheduling his coronation and torch-light parade at the GOP/TP/LDS convention.

2. Huntsman and Cain will leave the race within a week. Santorum to follow closely afterward.

3. Bachman will hang on to see if she can wedge herself into a run-off or something akin to that. In politics a three-horse race usually ends up favoring the number three horse. Number one and number two take each other out and number three gets the nomination. She'll hang on. But, when Romney gets the nomination (and I still believe he will) she will attempt a third party run.

4. Romney will engage Perry, or at least attempt to do so, but will finish in second place according to most observers.

It's Perry's night and his to lose. He's slick. He's teflon. If he's smart he'll stick to the script and let the others bark with futility at his heels. These are my predictions.

"Twang your magic twanger Froggy!" Cap'n Andy. (The late Andy Devine)

American held hostage day 250.

Obama/Biden 2012

The Left did have any problem with Hoffa physically threating the Tea Party.

NO ONE was physically threatened, that's a lie. It's been debunked repeatedly, but you continue to spread the lie. I notice you have no problem with David Koch comparing the President of the United States to Saddam Hussein, however.

Rovian Tactic #3; Accuse your opponent of what he/she is going to accuse you of.

Rovian tactic #3 is well used by the liberals and the parrot bloggers out here. They both seem to have become grandmasters at the old #3.

How big a moron do you have to be to not understand the difference between what is said in private "secret" meetings and what is said in front the national news media?

A fascinating comment. Conservatives are OK with making public policy behind closed doors, but object strenuously when people object to that.

John B: It's been debunked repeatedly, but you continue to spread the lie. I notice you have no problem with David Koch comparing the President of the United States to Saddam Hussein

Maybe it's time to re-post some John's Great Moments from back when Gabby Giffords was injured. You were sure pretty indigent about hostile language back then Johnny Boy.

And remember Obama? He was out front and center after the Giffords shooting, calling for everyone to tone it down. Things appear to have changed at the WHite House though. Now we hear:

In an interview with the WMAL Morning Majority Wednesday, White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer said the Obama administration is not going to be drawn into the "gotcha game" of reacting to comments made by Teamsters President James Hoffa, Jr.

Source: http://www.wmal.com/article.asp?id=2279665&SPID=28718

So Obama is no longer into lecturing the country about hostile language, seeing it's his side that is producing most of it.

Uh, John - was it the republican that crafted all of that fine healthcare legislation behind closed doors?

Every thing you all accuse republicans of doing is done by dems.

Open your eyes and complain about something real for a change.

John - did the dog eat Obama link to C-Span?

Skip:

Just off the phone with Buster Brown. Says the actual quote is, "Plunk your magic twanger." He also says it's getting very crowded in that shoe.

Perry's greatest accomplishments in Texas:
•A 34 billion dollar budget deficit
•Texas Ranks #1 in population living below the poverty line ( 17.2 % ).
•Worst environmental record in the United States
•Ranks #1 in illiteracy
•Ranks # 1 on the poorest gun regulations in the US and highest per capita gun murder rates in the US
•Ranks #1 with the highest real estate taxes per $1,000 value of a home in the United States
•Ranks #1 in the lowest high school graduation rate
•Ranks #1 with the highest interest rates “pay day” companies can charge
•Ranks # 1 in those making below minimum wage
•Ranks 50th ( dead last ) in Teacher Pay
•Ranks # 1 (26.5%) who lack health insurance
•Ranks # 1 (20.3%) of children who lack health insurance
•Ranks # 1 in the highest per capita executions in the world
•Ranks # 50th in $ spent for Medicaid for the poor and children
•Ranks 50th ( dead last ) in $ spent on its citizens
•Ranks # 1 in the # of food insecure children.
•Ranks 49th ( the 2nd lowest ) in Medicaid $ given to nursing homes
•Ranks 2nd highest in teen births
•Ranks #2 with the highest home insurance rates
•Ranks #2 with the highest sales tax
•Ranks 49th in $ funded for the mentally ill
•Ranks #1 with the highest overall pollution rate
•Ranks #1 in adults under correctional control
•Ranks #1 in adults under probation

ughh - and he's polling at the top? Go ahead make our day. Guess all of America is goin cowboy.

Whoever wins the presidency better win with a majority in the senate. For,nothing will get done otherwise. With that, work like hell to get these SOB's out of our lives once and for all. Obama must win with a majority in both houses. And then kick like hell for the next four years.

David, I probably have to take the rap for the misquote - I brought up the line the other day and wrote it obviously with the mistake.

One of my favorite things as a kid was watching Froggy drive Andy Devine utterly nuts by putting words in his mouth.

Given the level of analog television technology at the time, the producers of that show did a lot to pop Froggy all around.

[Holly Hell Drive By - are you trying to be ignorant, or does it just come all natural to you?]

Oh, so insignificant, Spanky...

...tick tock, "counselor"...tick...tock...

Sp, Now, you know the Healthcare debate was openly shown on hundreds of hours of C-Span and about 80 committees in Congress.

There were smaller meetings all over the Capital towards the end. To cover ALL of it on C-Span would have taken up all of their airtime.

How about a little Koch/ALEC indoctrination & legislation writing along with your favorite GOP congressionals like Perrry on the telly, or more likely pay-per-view?

Calls for civility when Gabby Giffords was shot are no longer significant. Republicans never joined in that civility, killing it. The head financier for the Conservative movement has declared the 2012 elections to be "the mother of all wars." As a Liberal I'd best be prepared to react appropriately lest the authoritarians prevail.

Well Feisty, if you can't wait, go to Motherjones.com; it was released at 6:00AM this morning. Chris Christie. And can you believe it, he said that we need to save the country from insolvency. OMG, the horror of he and others saying that we need to save our country before it's bankrupt. I'm not seeing the problem here.

A fascinating comment. Conservatives are OK with making public policy behind closed doors, but object strenuously when people object to that.

Kind of like the number one visitor to the White House being Andy Stern?

I read the story on mother jones and can't find a single thing that was said that I disagree with.

From the mother jones story:

It was time to tackle the "big things," he said, like "Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security systems, because they are bankrupting America." In New Jersey, the big things were to "return our budget to fiscal sanity by cutting spending and under no circumstances raising taxes"; "reform a pension and health benefit system" that was underfunded by $120 billion dollars and had New Jersey, too, "careening towards insolvency"; and "reform a broken K-12 education system…where the feelings of adults were given more respect than the needs of children."

Oh my god, how terrible.

John A, I see you are talking about Joe Walsh the teanuts top dog, what a nice guy he is ? Joe was on Fox bull$hit news talking his $hit about Americas debt & Obama when he lost his condo to foreclosure for owing $300,000.00 in back payments. What a loser. Also Teanut Joe Walsh said on Fox trash news that the children in America should be our #1 priority, he also said l won't place one more dollar of debt upon the backs of my kids, but their is a problem, this nutjob has. this crazy clown owes his ex-wife $117,500.00 in child support. This guy is a total loser and has no shame. This is what the teanuts are all about.

While the ultra-right ideologues and unmoveable Obama-haters spew their trash, the rest of the country is waiting expectantly for reassurance and hope when they hear the President speak tomorrow. The people don't want the kind of failed crap the GOP/TP promotes - they want the President to put his foot down with Congress and go big.

http://news.yahoo.com/obamas-jobs-speech-americans-want-hear-200000188.html (seeded to the 'Vine now)

It's not only the traditional unemployed who fret about jobs. It's college students. Seniors. Military veterans. Single parents. The middle class. It's Americans of all backgrounds, and they all will listen closely to President Obama's jobs speech Thursday evening. They say they need Obama to tell them something -- anything -- that will give them hope and restore faith in the sleepy U.S. economy.

"It is very hard not to live in fear," says Angela Loreto DeMeyer, an unemployed New Yorker.

She is a 99er, one of the nation's job-seekers who has exhausted her 99 weeks of unemployment benefits. "Those of us going without benefits the longest want to hear there will be help on the way in the form of an extension. Many 99ers have already lost everything. Now we just want, and need, to survive."

When Obama addresses the nation, he'll speak to Americans like DeMeyer. He'll also be talking to the 9.1 percent of Americans who are unemployed.

jollyoldsoul1

You are WRONG. Watch the video.

David, John, I take full responsibility for the misquote. I remembered it as "Twang" as well but was afraid to use the phrase for fear it would be misinterpreted by the un-informed youngsters on this blog. But, since John used it, I figured "what the hell" and will use it.

Agent99, sorry amigo, BUSTER BROWN was a children's program in the 1950's. It featured the late Andy Devine and a puppet called "Froggy". The sponsor was Buster Brown Shoes for children.

Since most of the posters on this blog act like children, I thought it was appropriate to open my daily contribution with Froggy's famous salutation and will end it from now on with Cap'n Andy's famous "PLUCK your magic twanger, Froggy." Which was the signal for the fun to begin.

Nothing political. Nothing off color. Just seemed appropriate.

America Held Hostage, day 250

Obama/Biden 2012

As I posted elsewhere, Romney's Economic Plan was written by Glenn Hubbard -- Former Bush adviser who "designed" the Bush tax cuts. The debate will be to see who has the biggest...tax cuts. Cain is in the lead with a 9% corporate rate. If folks want a Bush sequel, vote Republican, because they are all preaching the same old failed policies of the Bush era.

...And back 70 years as pointed out above. What's with rehashing all the stuff that was settled years ago, from Roe v Wade on? Like we don't have enough new problems to solve, the Teapublicans want to dredge up old crap. If only they had some originality.

Now, I'm a big fan of yours, David Walker. But if progressives don't get out the vote, the Teapublicans will, even if they have to hold their nose when they pull the lever--they did it with McCain/Palin. It is worth casting a vote against the radical right-wing that the GOP has become, for many reasons including appointments to the Supreme Court. And it's not just the presidential race, but representatives at the local level.

We all know the true "tax and spend" Party is the Republicans, who only become fiscally conservative when a Democrat is in the White House. If President Obama is given a Democrat majority in congress again, we will finally be able to see progress. We can get back to where we were at the end of Clinton's administration, with a surplus and being on track to pay off the debt.

About the president's job plan...President Obama will put country first. He will propose what he feels has a chance of being passed, which will be many Republican ideas, and will be viable in the eyes of the American people. He can ask for an up-or-down vote on each idea rather than trying to pass it as a large omnibus package. This will put the GOP/TP on record for the American people to see. Something may actually get passed, which would be good. If not, the voters will have a clear choice in 2012.

Skip and John:

Buncha damned old people here. Just so you know, Buster is registered as a Democrat. He said he was just tired of getting stepped on.

I was reading a story in the local paper at lunch saying the Postmaster General is testifying before Congress that it will be broke within a year and not have enough money to meet payroll and benefits.

Another creation of the federal govt going broke. Who ever woulda thunk it!!!

THAT explains those recent annoying commercials from the postal workers union claiming they don't any taxpayer money.

America is being set up for another huge bailout of a bloated bureaucracy larded up with lavish pensions and retiree health ins bene's.

I don't know about you, but, in this electronic age no more than 5% of my mail is anything I want/need/ or even look at. 95% goes right in the trash.

Why do we even have the Postal Service??

JOB......Which part of I WAS THERE dont you understand. Are you going to tell me how my first combat experience went too. How about the birth of my children......something I forgot maybe! Your as funny as that other putzboy John B. directing me to the gov stimulus web site to see the work that was done in my area......when it was done on MY street while I watched! Geesus Can you be any more related to a cement block!

David -

Well, Buster also was getting real tired of all the teasing abouot his Little Lord Fauntlery outfit and that ridiculous big bow tie. The hat wasn't exactly a winner, either.

That brand of shoes was actually quite high quality. In the big family I came from, I was always the one who got the best shoes, since as eldest, I'd outgrown them long before they were badly scuffed or worn out, so the next size down could inherit them. Of course, Dad's habit of sitting us all down every Sunday afternoon before dinner to clean and polish our shoes and get our clothes ready for the coming week meant things lasted longer, too. There was some benefit to the training he got in a British Army reserve unit before WWII broke out.

jollyoldsoul1

Remember, FOX News edited their video

Actually fact checked on what Hoffa said with the real video and transcript.

"Everybody here's got a vote. If we go back and we keep an eye on the prize -- let's take these sons of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong."

AtlasWillShrug wrote: ...we need to save the country from insolvency. OMG, the horror of he [Chris Christie] and others saying that we need to save our country before it's bankrupt.

That's precisely why the Teapublicans need to be thrown out in 2012. The austerity bullsh!t and voodoo economics is what will cause the nation to go bankrupt. But most of all the "Do Nothing Congress," specifically the Republican Majority/Teabagger Caucus in the House.

The Republicans caused the majority of the debt, then lied about jobs to get reelected, then promptly turned their attention to religious issues and attacking the working class instead of creating jobs (where's the legislation from the House?), and of course obstructing in every way possible any solutions to improve the economy.

Christie doesn't want to run for POTUS for a lot of reasons, such as revelations like this, but mostly he doesn't want to deal with the far-right "crazies" as he calls them. Stuff like this will continue to come out about all the Teapublicans, including those who are boycotting the president's speech. Their pay should be docked for not showing up for work. And Joe Walsh, what a douche-bag. I'm surprised he hasn't been recalled.

Nicely done, Job1. As you can see it really gets under JOS1's skin when you prove him incorrect. If you prove him wrong on the same point multiple times he starts calling you names.

As discussed in an earlier post, the GOP/TP platform this year is a rehash of failed policies of the past 30 years. And when Mitt Romney said he'd be aiming at the middle class, what he really meant was that he'd smash them flat first of all.

Now comes a statistical study that shows how, in fact, the American Middle Class has fared since the Reagan Regime - and who were the ones who got hurt the most by failed Republican policies:

The American Dream of upward social mobility has stalled for some people, according to a big new study from Pew.

The study checked in on a bunch of middle class teenagers from 1979 to see how they were doing 25 years later. Notably this survey was performed before the Great Recession, so most of these numbers would be worse today.

Pew found that 28% of the sample group had fallen out of the middle class. This number was significantly higher for certain demographic groups including divorced women and black men.

http://langewinckler.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/07/7653185-shrinking-middle-class-who-the-right-wing-ideology-has-actually-hurt

Wow, we are the oldest, old farts on this blog. I have found memories of those shows. My family was too poor to afford Buster Brown shoes. I always wanted a pair, but we just couldn't afford them. I loved that show and was especially fond of the rascally Froggy.

Later, old dudes.

Obama/Biden 2012

Actually, Skip, my family was pretty close to the same condition. I got the good shoes because that way for my next two younger brothers, no additional shoes were necessary for years. Buying good quality was really an economy move that worked. And were my younger siblings ever glad when I moved out for college .....

John A.: you're talking "hand me downs" as the youngest boy, I was very familiar with those. Vowed (to myself) that I would never have my children do that, hated the slightly worn jeans and not new shoes with a passion. Now with only two children of my own, the only thing they have had to share is the TV remote.

Great post, John A. The wealth of the middle class is rapidly being transferred directly to the very richest among us, with the share of income held by the top 0.1% increasing more than fourfold since 1974. By 2007 they held 12.3% of ALL income, a vast increase in income unprecedented in American history. http://bostonreview.net/BR36.3/archon_fung_winner_take_all_politics.php

Connect the dots, we always say, and the numbers simply demand acknowledgement that the Conservative war on the middle class has been incredibly successful.

dirp101 -- that's the American Dream, isn't it? Wanting something better for each generation, the poor having hope of moving up to the middle class, owning a home, etc. It's not just the vague "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness." Our grandparents and parents did a lot for us, most notably infrastructure such as dams, etc. The least we could do is maintain that for our kids.

GOP/TP say we're too broke to do such things--too obsessed with debt being passed on, like kids out of college care about the debt more than jobs. We will have lost an entire generation, from those nearing retirement with no nest egg to college kids with nothing but student loans to pay. They say the long-term unemployed are permanently affected from it, becoming anti-social for the rest of their lives.

We have the Republicans and voodoo economics to thank for all our misery. Yet they want more tax cuts for the rich, more deregulation, all the things that caused the economic meltdown. Litigation? Tort reform is a drop in the bucket populist BS that Perry so loves. Austerity along with a Do Nothing Congress, thanks to the Grand Obstructionist Party, will be the final blow. Teapublicans are about as depressing as it gets. It's mind bending why anyone would want them in power.

Tort reform is hillarious. Instead of judging each case on its merits, you have all of the cases are the same. If pain and suffering is limited to $250,000, EVERYONES pain and suffering is worth $250,000, from the person whose breast implant is slightly lopsided to the person whose wrong leg is cut off. And in EVERY state that has had tort reform for medical malpractice, there is NO reduction in malpractice premiums, none, zip, zero, nada. The only thing that happens is the insurance companies make greater profits..... sounds familiar, doesn't it.

As to the American Dream, yeah, I am living it. First person in either of my parents families to go to college. Now the %$$%# Tea Party wants to remove Pell Grants and government backed loans and eliminate the Dept. of Education. That is one sure way to eliminate the middle class.

What will the TeaPublicans do when they have made all of the middle class poor and killed off all of the poor ?

For the record, I could care less what Perry has to say. I like Romney and Paul.

The moderator Harris is a jerk. Get him off the air.

Let's see here, this is September. The elections are in November, a year from now. Lots can happen in a year and doing the 'rah-rah my guy is better than your guy' schtick might make you feel better but while focusing like a laser on today, well, time will tell. I get the impression that Obama is losing steam. His hair, like all his predecessors, is really getting gray. I think were it not for his pay-back obligations he'd tell the whole crew adios amigos.

Maybe when Obama actually put a "plan" in writing. Both documents can be published.

Lliberals need to stop the mis-information and exaggerations. Smaller government doing what government should be doing is what conservative believe is in the best interest of the country.

Asking for assistance from the federal government is why the government is there -- to help and protect this country's citizens. It's not there to dictate. There is a distinct difference and one which you overlook i your errant comparison.

P.S. -- I see where you just joined. So who are you in disguise? Navy? Feisty? Beverly? etc.?

The smaller government plan is all bull crap.

Asking for assistance from the federal government is why the government there..." Sorry, no Ben. Not when Perry constantly demands to get the Federal government off the back of Texans. You really can't have this both ways. Either the government is an aid to people, or it is a hindrance. Perry keeps claiming the Feds are in his way. If he asks for Federal assistance, he becomes the nation's biggest hypocrite. If he doesn't, he sabotages the people of his state for his own political gain. Pretty pickle, don't you think?

And i want to know what ghetto! I keep looking out my window at the one I live in! Well job1 I would suggest you start donating more of your pay check like I do to the Gov. I think then you can say just about anything you want. Its easy go to IRS.gov and open an account. You can use your debt card, only thing is ....its not tax deductible !

@NDR -- That analogy is only in the minds of idiots, the ill-informed, the close minded. There are two separate issues and any one with a third grade education could discern that.

ghettoforever, so true, they can't have it both ways. They either want government out of their lives or they don't.

It is amusing to read comments like Ben's who recognize that government does have a role to play while excusing the likes of Perry, Romney, Bachmann and too many other TPers who have said the opposite.

So your mode is to attack me personally when you don't like being caught out? Do you believe that helps your credibility Ben? I didn't attack you...I asked you a reasonable question. Perhaps you can respond in kind.

Slick Rick says he wants to make the federal government "inconsequential" in our lives. That would mean letting Texas burn rather than meddle in a situation that's the responsibility of the state to solve. Not that I would favor that; the wildfires are one county over from where I am right now. I'd prefer that government be consequential wherever it can have a positive effect on our lives. FEMA, the agency nearly destroyed by George W. Bush, is one of those agencies that does have a positive effect it's not messed around with by Republicans.

So NewDay what do you think of Hoffa speech?

Member all the way back to what you said last Feb.?

Such a long time ago, tight?

Spanky-

So NewDay what do you think of Hoffa speech?

So, Spanky, what do you think of Rick Perry calling the head of the Federal Reserve a traitor and suggesting he'd be lynched if he came to Texas?

Wow Houston, mangle quotes much?

Please show the quote where Perry called the head of the Fed a traitor.

Bet you lunch that you can't find it.

Obama wants to extend unemployment benefits again? It didn't work last time, all it did was save jobs, and now we are here again. We need tough love from this president not another extension. What will motivate people to go out and look for a job? No more extensions, force them to go out and find a job.

Also, reported was money going to states. Well I know California will jump on that puppy, the Union hands must be itching.

If what they are reporting is true, Obama will have sealed his fate.

WCA,

Perry said he'd get treated "pretty ugly" if he came to Texas. ...

Since Perry wanted to secede from the US, what's his plan if he becomes President--to break Texas off?

Dude - the Federal Reserve is the biggest Ponzi/fraud/scam going.

Or do you think there is not a reason they will not allow an audit?

Our Federal Reserve is on the hook for so much crap it is astounding.

In fact I used to support Paul in his calls for an audit. Now I don't want to know. If the truth ever came out the entire global economy would collapse.

So what's that you were saying there Houston?

And NEWDAY - is this in fact a New Day, or just the same old crap where you continue to speak out of both sides of your mouth? Shall we go back in the way back machine and repost some of your comments from last February?

Might be super fun.

White Collar Auto

Wow Houston, mangle quotes much?

Please show the quote where Perry called the head of the Fed a traitor.

Wow, Whitey. Selective memory much?

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/16/news/economy/perry_bernanke/index.htm

During an appearance Monday in Cedar Rapids, in what appeared to be a backyard, Perry invoked folksy language to explain what he'd like to do to Bernanke if the chairman decides to engage in more quantitative easing.

A reporter asked Perry what he would do about the Federal Reserve.

Standing next to a "Perry President" sign, the governor replied, "If this guy prints more money between now and the election, I don't know what y'all would do to him in Iowa, but we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas."

"I mean, printing more money to play politics at this particular time in American history, is almost treacherous, or treasonous, in my opinion," he added.

A Federal Reserve spokesman said the central bank had no comment.

Spanky-

Dude - the Federal Reserve is the biggest Ponzi/fraud/scam going.

The Federal Reserve was created in 1913. Somehow, the United States became the greatest economic power in the world while running that "ponzi/fraud/scam."

NDD, that's why I'm glad you're back. Thanks for pointing out the position of most Conservatives;

"When the government does something for someone else it's wasteful. When it does something for ME it's essential!"

Odd, is it not-

The argument over the merits of a central bak go back to the founding of this nation.

Alexander Hamilton was a strong proponent, who lost the argument at the time.

Wilson brought it into being.

It's water over the dam, folks- like the direct election of Senators. I would have taken a position against that, were I alive at the time

Water over the dam- nothing going to change it now.

I would have opposed the Income Tax amendment, too- the U.S. supreme Court declared such a tax unConstitutional no less than five times- so congress fixed that by adding it to the Constitution.

Water over the dam- which does not mean it cannot be fixed by flattening rates and doing away with exemptions. All of them.

Maybe by Constitutional amendment.

Spanky likey to play the "he said, she said" game...and you keep spouting the same bull@!$%# about Hoffa's speech, but you know damn well what he was saying, right "counselor"?

C'mon, man up...WCA can't stand to have his rubber band wound any tighter than it already is...

...now that would be "Super fun", right?

John, is that all you can do, is draw generalized statements and take things out of context thinking you can fool everybody? Of course government has a role. The misinformation and exaggerations of the conservative position is just flagrant in the liberal meda. Try supporting your position and not just criticizing using misinformation and exaggerations. Who are you Nancy Pelosi?

John, Grover,

With Perry and the Tea Party, it's all bid'ness.

The only thing in their sights is more tax cuts and profits for the corporates ~and mangle up whatever is in their way. And all the rest of us 98% is in their way, regardless of party.

FEMA/NoFEMA, Fed/NoFed: Whichever wind blows more power, there you will find Governor Perry.

Houston, you said he called him a traitor.

He said that IF the Fed printed more money at this time in history it would be a treasonus act.

Mangled quotes there Houston, mangled quotes.

You owe me Lunch. I like the veal parmigiana at the Roma Cafe in Detroit. Lunch is around $30. Send me your credit card info and I promise I will only use it this one time.

Houston......I think Bernie Madoff did too! lmao....did Houston just call you "whitey" OMG!

WCA I had Dinner at Andiamo's down town on Monday, the Veal piccita was fabulous!

History does not look like it’s on Barry’s side for tomorrow’s big speech.

From MSDNC.com:

Big White House economic speeches that failed

7 times the president has addressed a joint session on the subject — with 7 flops

President Barack Obama will give a speech before a joint session of Congress Thursday night, in which he will lay out a job creation plan. There have been only seven speeches about economic and business issues before a joint session of Congress since the end of The Great Depression. 24/7 Wall St. has reviewed these speeches and found that they had virtually no effect on the economy, despite the detailed proposals.

Of the seven addresses, two were about labor trouble, and both by Harry Truman: One about the railroad strike in 1946, and the other about the steel strike in 1952. Neither speech was effective. The strikes were settled by labor and management irrespective of the speeches. As a matter of fact, the railroad strike ended the day of the president’s speech.

The balance of the speeches addressed different crises such as soaring energy costs, inflation, and recession. Each of these speeches offered specific road maps for economic improvement. While each president gave a broad description of the trouble, most offered a specific set of solutions. Rarely were any of the plans adopted, either because of political opposition or because the problems resolved themselves. In many cases, the economy got worse after the presidential address. It is impossible to trace any recovery to the presidential proposals in almost every case. Those that were enacted into law were so substantially changed by Congress that they barely resembled the presidents’ suggestions.

Hey white collar:

If this guy prints more money between now and the election, I don’t know what you would do with him. We would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas. Printing more money to play politics at this particular time in American history is almost treacherous — or treasonous in my opinion.

— Texas Gov. Rick Perry, campaigning in Iowa, commenting on the possibility that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke will increase stimulus spending before the 2012 election, Bloomberg reports.

That the quote you're denying?

Oh, that's very different...accusing someone of committing treason is different from accusing him of being a traitor.

Not only is that a distinction without a difference, it isn't even a distinction.

All of which merely deflects from the complete inability of the Republican, Supply Side religion to create demand by throwing more money at the rich and balancing the budget on the backs of the middle class.

John B.: you are so correct. That's why the FED did not go for a QEIII. They discovered that QEII really did not work. They tried to pump up the money supply, but discovered that no one was taking. The only real effect of what they did was to improve the banks profits and allow them to get larger (i.e. even more too big to fail.)

Supply side economics will never work when there is no demand. Cutting governement spending further reduces demand, which reduces growth, which curbs the revenues the goverment gets, requiring additional cuts, which reduces growth and the race to the bottom continues.

Yeah John B, it is different. The Fed knew printing money would be a bad idea, gee maybe even treasonous, so they didn't do it.

Perry made his point, and you guys got all flustered.

You still owe me lunch.

Thanks, dirp, and you made a great point as well. The Supply Side devotees are flailing for answers when they have none, explaining why the long-discredited Laffer Curve has begun to be held up almost daily by Conservatives here on FR. Republicans and Democrats alike were good stewards of the economy for many years, but the radicalization of the GOP has made them a danger to the economy.

The Laffer curve does work, to a point. When rates were cut below the optimum point, the baseline assumptions no longer applied. That is why revenues as a % of GDP have been declining, for almost 8 years. Combined with the fact that Laffer based his observations during an improving economy, while the current economy has declined (stagnated) for the last 4 years, you end up with nothing for the GOP/TP to utilize.

Sure, it relies on a very specific set of circumstances. Unfortunately Conservatives treat those conditions as if they're unchanging and continue to believe "tax cuts pay for themselves" as an article of faith.

Thanks for sharing this, IR. This is a sad week as we remember 9/11---who will ever forget the horror we felt that day? I would like to think we learned lessons from the death and destruction but am afraid that the two polarized sides of our political system learned different lessons.

Wonderful IR, as always.

Good morning IR,

As always a great one.

Thanks

Terrific post, IR. So true, we don't need to invade a country using "shock and awe" to be effective.

The economic mess we have today, the huge national debt are proof that war is costly in both treasure and lives. Bush/Cheney never once asked for Americans to sacrifice to pay for their wars, they charged both. While the first Bush tax cuts legislation was signed prior to 9/11 and should have been rescinded at the end of the year, the second round of tax cuts was signed by Bush after he started the second war in Iraq. The Bush Administration and the GOP Congressional majority are the true examples of failed leadership, of irresponsible policy and both have had a profound and negative impact on this Nation both economically and morally.

Lets be upfront with the Cheney/Bush tax cuts. They were strictly to buy votes in the 2004 election. That's why all you hear from the tea people GOP republicans is about tax cuts to buy votes, with tax cuts for the rich. BTW the tea people GOP republicans are good at telling the uninformed that those tax cuts are really for you not the rich.

And when Obama copied those tax cuts in 2010?

Who did Obama say they were for Mo?

Care to wager on the number of tax cuts Obama will unleash tomorrow night?

He really must just be a filthy Tea Partier, eh?

Or was cutting taxes the "secret" part of his platform in 2008?

You all are too funny. Are you ignoring, or just pretending that Obama is doing the exact thing you loathe so much - cutting taxes and spending?

It’s a good lesson to remember: Too often, the American reaction to any challenge is a knock-out blow. In our determination to win, we tend to throw men and money at problems, and then worry about how we’re going to use our enormous resources — and pay for them — later on.

If Bomb Bomb McCain had been president back in May, he would have obliterated several city blocks around bin Laden's compound with air strikes or cruise missiles, and we'd never know if we had really gotten him or not.

Are you ignoring, or just pretending that Obama is doing the exact thing you loathe so much - cutting taxes and spending?

Some of us have noticed and haven't ignored it. However, since Obama is following the GOP playbook, why not start cheerleading for the President? Heck he even stopped the EPA from going forward with those scary regulations that the GOP fear. In reality the GOP are the funny ones who call a clearly right of center president a socialist. The left are whiners while the GOP bemoan the lack of uncertainty and keep asking for more and more of their failed tax cut policies. Yeah right.

Talk about the hypocrisy of the right, they try to portray the left as entitlement driven, when the GOP believes they are entitled to perpetual tax cuts. Oh I get it, not enough tax cuts yet? More are coming Thursday night.

Sorry Spank not going to bite on your stupidity. Have a nice day though.

[Sorry Spank not going to bite on your stupidity. Have a nice day though.]

Oh, go on Mo...give it a whirl...Spanky LOVES the attention (he can't exist without it) which in fact, he has been getting less and less of these days, and as you can tell, he's craving him some attennie, right "counselor"?

Schpanky, remember what I said about mediocrity and insignificance? ...tick tock...

All kidding aside "counselor"... I have asked you some legitimate questions recenty that you failed to address...you got me on iggie, bruh?

It's cool Mo. I get you.

Heck I sure wouldn't want to have to answer that "stupidity" either if I were you.

But see Mo, Yellow Dog is neither afraid or dishonest. He gets it.

Although I suspect you do too.

Yellow Dog - looks like Obama is all in on the no new regulations thing. You are right he is very much just Bush lite at this point, and I would consider changing my overall views of him. But we all know that all bets are off if he gets a second term.

Right now it's looking like a landslide against him. Dems are very unhappy. Just wait until the next round of his tax cuts.

Spanky - Your post is going to make me a persona non grata around here.

Regarding Obama's re election chances, put me in the same boat as Dangerfield #7.8 below. It will be very hard for Obama to win. If he does I see the margin of victory very slim. Hypothetically if the election was held tomorrow, Obama might lose based on the economic situation.

To be fair and give us more time for things to develop on the GOP side and the economy to improve, lets say the election was held this November 2011 in lieu of 2012. I think Obama could win because the country is upset at the outcome of the recent debt ceiling debate, where most reasonable people would agree that the right was unwilling to compromise. I still don't see a lot of confidence in a candidate from the GOP supporters, but that is what the primaries are for.

Preface: In 2012 if conditions do not improve steadily: If Perry is the nominee, I see him winning in a squeaker, winning a crucial swing state. Popular tallies will be somewhere between Bush/Gore and Bush/Kerry levels. If Rommney is the nominee he wins by five or six percentage points and about 2 to three swing states - twenty or so electoral votes.

Just wait until the next round of his tax cuts.

I agree the tax cuts will dissapoint some, but I think November 23rd when the spending cuts are released. Whoa.

On a last note, to answer you from yesterday, I say that the stock market goes up about 150 to 200 points on Friday after Obama's speech. Wall street will use any news to get excited about the confidence instilled with proposed tax cuts and stimulus spending.

PS. What did you do with Ira Lapin?

You yellow bellied bastard Yellow Dog.

There I hope that helps with your credibility issues. Me, I have no friends, never win popularity contests, and I am rarely concerned about what others think of me.

As to your points - the economy is only going to get worse. The are no short term solutions for the structural debt, and everybody just figure out the emperor has no clothes. It's not all Obama's fault, he just makes it worse.

Plus ou forget about Europe. Merkel is about to get medievil on the Euro's ass. Funny how even the socialists in Europe jump ship when the going gets tough. And right now it is mighty tough over there.

I think we are in for a 100+ point decline. I will be on a white sand beach in Cancun, pounding Captain Morgan and cokes at the all inclusive, adults only resort.

The “underwear bomber,” the “shoe bomber” and the “Times Square bomber” were all stopped by alert passengers and wary bystanders.

They were all stopped by failed devices. Anne didn't do her homework.

Ha. Thats Ha, like the way Chris Mathews does it on his show.

Some truthful points in your post. No short term solutions for the debt, not all Obama's fault and the atmosphere in Europe could continue to deter the market.

Market will go up Friday. I'll wager you a Captain Morgan to my V8, after all we are talking about Friday lunch and I want to keep my yellow, belly lean. Have a good trip.

:)

You lost yellow, ante up.

Great minds think alike JohnB - I like your comment better! ;o)

John B:

There is a very interesting contrast here. For some time, I have watched as the very low-information voters, who are so slavishly devoted to the right wing, continue to support the very people who would reduce them to serfdom. As you well know, they are big on name-calling. They repeat with mind-numbing regularity the talking points of the right-wing propaganda/prevarication machine. They can be very vicious.

On the other hand, we have union workers who are angry. Hoffa says what's on his mind, and the very proper and polite, considerate, and genteel Republicans are deeply offended; their delicate sensibilities have been trampled. Imagine teamsters - a group of folks who are characterized by their sensitivity and cultured approach to injustice - referring to their enemies as S.O.B.'s. Shocking!

Why does that word "projection" keep running around in my mind?

You know, we might actually get something done if teamsters can share some of that sensitivity and culture with the spineless clowns who run the Democratic Party.

And there's some kind of proof that this tape was not made by the same person who "punked" Governor Walker?

Didn't think so.

Even if it is legitimate- so what?

Hoffa was fomenting VIOLENCE against a group of Americans who oppose the policies of this administration- and Obama said he was PROUD of the remarks.

The next day, he claimed not to have heard them.

In other words- he lied again. Another way he differentiates himself from Carter- and not in a good way, either.

Except Hoffa was not fomenting violence, no jo; he was reminding people of their right to vote. I have listed his entire comment 1.17.

Sort of like "targeting" their opponents. Oh I see. We have to look at the context in which the inflammatory speech vehicles are used. Very good point and I'm sure you look at both sides in the same light -- right?

Here are Hoffa's exact words

We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They've got a war, they got a war with us and there's only going to be one winner. It's going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We're going to win that war," Jimmy Hoffa Jr. said to a heavily union crowd.

"President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong," Hoffa added.

I defy you to find the words "vote" or "ballot box" in there. I defy you to find the word "election" in there.

Hoffa was fomenting violence- period. Obama claimed to have been "proud" of the words spoken by Hoffa.

Yesterday, the story was that he had not heard them.

Either way, he's a liar- he either claimed to be,proud of words he did not hear, or he's lying about not having heard them.

So much for civility in discourse.

Union thugs calling for bloodshed in order to prop a failed president- that's certainly "civil".

And, newdaydawning- I read your revised words- they're YOURS, not Hoffa's.

The quote is above, in its entirety. No amount of spin or rewrite changes the FACTS of what Hoffa said- and refuses to apologize for, or even put in context.

He is fomenting violence against American citizens, and Obama is proud of him.

Sick, twisted, and disgusting. Even I did not think Obama would sink so low-

And, obviously, neither did you, since you felt the need to amend the statement yourself. Tell me, did you run that by Hoffa?

@no joe -- You mean someone on here would purposely leave out portions of what they claim to be an exact quote?????? ROFLMAO. Hypocrites all they are. Pathetic.

Sorry no jo: but you are wrong. I didn't make the quote up, in fact, I went looking for it on several sources since I don't like language that seems to inflame violence. You can easily Google the quote, and find out what happened, but here is a source that presents the timeline (Which you will reject, but lists the sources.) Fox Doctors Hoffa Speech to Fabricate Call for Violence 9/5/11 Matt Gertz, Media Matters. If you look on line, you will also find the original, unedited videos. Now, let's see if you and I can start over, and you can be honest about your misstatement that those words are mine. Honesty counts, no jo.

NDD-R, I was at the speech. I actually went with some Union friends of mine. As Hoffa spoke the anger in the crowd rose. It would have been laughable had it not been so sad. Had I spoken out, at that point, against what Hoffa was inciting, I would have been in trouble.

Trust me, James Hoffa Jr., was channeling his father. Interesting (Ironic) that he was calling for the action against his enemies that befell his father. Nobody in that crowd thought he was talking about "Ballot Box" removal.

The majority of Union folks I know are good hard working people. The majority of Union Stewards and Chiefs I know are thugs. Power is what they want and they know how to get it in Detroit.

Secret tapes ooOoOooOoOoOoOo Next they will find secret passages in Fiestys bloomers leading to the lost temple of doom. Where by Indiana John will crack his ahem (bullwhip) and shake 12lbs of popcorn butter off the left side causing a marked limp!

Hoffa was angry, WCA: and he has a right to be. We are watching a lockout of workers locally, they have lost their pay, medical insurance all. It wasn't the union that refused to negotiate, it was the business. They are seeing their opportunity to get rid of the union. The union had offered to work under the old contract, which would have given them a negligible pay raise, if they could avoid language that put their jobs at risk. Unions aren't always wrong, WCA.

"...I have watched as the very low-information voters, who are so slavishly devoted to the right wing, continue to support the very people who would reduce them to serfdom."

Ah yes...the old "What's the Matter with Kansas" argument.

Pure, undiluted, insufferably arrogant, liberal/progressive condescension. And, who better to express that view than you, David?

There might be a tiny kernel of truth in your remark, though.

Because honestly, I believe that you could effectively argue, on the merits, that the left should have the allegiance of ALL of the the nation's "very low-information voters".

Although...if First Read is a reliable indicator...you guys already have plenty of them, David.

The quote I posted, in its entirety, I copied from the realclearpolitics transcript of the tape.

So, it was not YOU who amended the remarks, but someone from media matters? Big deal. It is still an unauthorized amendment of the remarks, in a lame attempt to make something they are not out of them.

There is nothing mistakable about what Hoffa was stating- and no amount of spin changes it.

For any Obama worshipper to state that honesty matters is laughable. He lies, and you all swear to it.

NewDay......I was there and I can assure you that NO ONE in that crowd heard anything after "take them out"

When outrage over Hoffa’s quote swept over Twitter, I hadn’t seen the clip yet, but the quote sounded so familiar that I took a look for another source, with broader context. Sure enough, CNN reported the quote this way:

“Everybody here has a vote,” Hoffa said Monday. “If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize. Let’s take these sons of bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.”

The full quote (Hoffa actually says “Everybody here’s got a vote,” and, employing the colloquially approved plural for sonofabitch, “let’s take these sonofabitches out”) is almost identical to something Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out

The full Hoffa quote was also run in a clip later in the day by Fox News, and Fox Senior White House Correspondent Ed Henry took pains to clarify the Hoffa quote via his Twitter feed following his initial report, which omitted “Everybody here’s got a vote”:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediaite.com%2Ftv%2Fjames-hoffas-full-take-these-sons-of-bitches-out-quote-everybody-heres-got-a-vote%2F&ei=-nxnTqrTJ-WNsALgrLmRDg&usg=AFQjCNFptitZ1q5XQfnJBghQyLU_jiz4fg

By golly if you can't trust Fox News these days, WHO can you trust? lol

No jo: would love to see you be honest about this. I have put down the exact quote. You have accused me of manufacturing what was said, which I didn't. Now, I would like to have reasonable discussions on FR with those of a differing viewpoint. We can do that with honesty. Do you agree that I did not make up that quote? Remember, honesty counts. JOS: you cannot determine what others heard. Putting a spin on it does not help the debate. Unless you talked to EVERY person there, don't tell me what the crowd heard, and how they interpreted those remarks.

And by the way no jo: Media Matters did not make up the remarks either.

No, dear, you put forth the doctored quote. Of course I thought you made it up- you, after all, did not post a source for your doctored quote.

So media matters doctored it- so what? The quote I posted is the EXACT quote- from the realclearpolitics transcript of the video.

No amount of spin changes the factsmof what Hoffa said- and he refuses to back down from it, so adding words he did not say is a pointless exercise, and one he presumably does not appreciate.

Considering who we're dealing with, whoever is doing the doctoring should be careful- Hoffa is one nasty piece of work.

And, please stop trying to defend the indefensible.

Well NDD, I never said Unions were always wrong. Hoffa may be angry, but he does not have the right to incite his members to violence. The Union isn't the only one in the Auto Industry who took a hit. Just the only ones who have political capital to get it covered.

We all took a BIG hit. Suppliers out of business, Diners shut down, Barbers out of work. Everyone in South Eastern Michigan is feeling the pain. Now the President wants to raise CAFE to unreachable levels.

You can not regulate or legislate technology, if there is a better engine or drive-train that people will buy, someone will build it.

Finally, as you can tell, I am fairly passionate about the Auto Industry. I get very frustrated with the mis-information from the "Bloggers" here when it comes to the Auto Industry. Been in it my whole career. It's what we do when we grow up in Detroit. Did you know the UAW/Big 3 is in contract negotiations as we speak? Because of the Government Bailouts, GM and Chrysler can not strike and will be forced into binding arbitration if they can not reach a deal, but Ford can strike and 97% of the workers have authorized a strike. So some things never do change.

Deadline is September 14, 2011. We, in Detroit, take this stuff very seriously.

WCA: He was inciting his members to vote, seems reasonable given the circumstances, don't you think? No Jo: Here is my frustration....you almost get it, and almost admit you were wrong, and then you back away. I have presented the comment that Hoffa made, my source was Hoffa. I have no need to doctor it, neither does Media Matters, you have to ask yourself who gains by doctoring it? Could it be Fox News and the right wing? If Hoffa had made a comment that was clearly inciting violence, I would be the first to say he was over the line. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT OTHERS AT RISK. But, I still think that honesty counts. Be honest about what was said. Now, I have to get to chores, spent too much time here, but wondered if we could speak without anger..

Who cares what, or HOW Hoffa said what?

The guy is right on! The teabaggers and obsructionists are causing this great nation to nose-dive, all because for whatever reason, they hate Obama.

Then, when someone calls them on it, they are all 'oh....poor me" and hurt and outraged. The hell with 'em. They need their collective butts kicked. No- wait, the people that need their butts kicked are the 'grassroots' manipulators like Armey and Koch Bros. The teabaggers aren't smart enough to engineer all this garbage on their own. They are being taken, and don't even know it. All they see and hear is 'Obama has to go', even though they will lose, too, and lose big when the have-mores have it all.

Mixed Bag

"...I have watched as the very low-information voters, who are so slavishly devoted to the right wing, continue to support the very people who would reduce them to serfdom."

Ah yes...the old "What's the Matter with Kansas" argument.

Pure, undiluted, insufferably arrogant, liberal/progressive condescension. And, who better to express that view than you, David?

Yeah, how terribly arrogant to consider the 34% of the population who think Obama raised their taxes (60% of teabaggers) when he actually cut them are "low information voters." Idiots might be a better description.

As predicted Conservatives are fine with the financial head of the Conservative Movement comparing President Obama to Saddam Hussein but take huge offense that a union leader would urge his members to vote.

I wont even try to take credit for that, it was as predictable as the sun rising.

Houston-

I was quite certain you'd be fluent in "liberalese"...no matter.

You intuitively recognized that "low information voter", roughly translates as "idiot".

The irony is that so many on the left are "low information voters".

Go back and watch the 2008 Will i am video with the mindless, scary, cult-like "Oh Bah Mah" chant, solemnly repeated, again and again, by celebrity entertainment figures...if you've got the stomach for it, that is.

Then tell us all where the "idiots" reside on the political spectrum.

Did you chant along with it, Houston?

Are you still chanting?

[You mean someone on here would purposely leave out portions of what they claim to be an exact quote??????]

Maybe you can email Fox "news" about their role in "purposely leave[ing] out portions of what they claim to be an exact quote"...FOX was airing doctored clips of Hoffa's speech like it was the end of the world as we know it.

...simply put...FOX "news" lies...

I guess you never listened to the real liars. The likes of Rachael Maddow, Ed Schultz, Chris Mathews and Lawrence O Donald Duck. They love socialism too!

nojonobo:

The quote is above, in its entirety. No amount of spin or rewrite changes the FACTS of what Hoffa said- and refuses to apologize for, or even put in context.

Are you just gullible or dishonest, or both? I suspect choice # 3. The Detroit Free Press has the transcript of Hoffa's speech, which shows what Hoffa actually said in context. But naturally, nojonobo prefers the quote that was doctored by wingnuts to the real quote:

http://www.freep.com/article/20110906/NEWS15/110906056/Transcript-Teamsters-Jim-Hoffa-s-speech-Labor-Day

That’s what we are going to tell America…..When he sees what we are doing here, he [the president] will be inspired, but he needs help. And you know what? Everybody here has got a vote. If we go back, we keep the eye on the prize, lets take these sons-of-bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.”

He was clearly talking about taking the SOBs out AT THE BALLOT BOX. Whoever "quoted" Hoffa in nojonobo's post made sure to delete the sentence in bold in order to get people like nojo all riled up.

And, by the way, I agree with Hoffa 100%.

Bag:

Go back and watch the 2008 Will i am video with the mindless, scary, cult-like "Oh Bah Mah" chant, solemnly repeated, again and again, by celebrity entertainment figures...if you've got the stomach for it, that is.

Yeah, those scary black people chanting. Had something to do with the Mau Mau, you think? Whatever you think about the merits of that video, it has nothing to do information or the lack thereof, any more than the chants of "Four More Years" that both parties use when their guy is in the White House. It's the reasons people have for doing that chant that indicates whether they are informed voters, low-info voters, or just plain idiots.

See now why our resident Conservatives are so intent on arguing about what Hoffa did or did not say, despite clear evidence that they're editing his quote to convey violent intent? It very effectively prevents anyone from arguing the larger point, the one that's more important in the life of every American;

Winner-Take-All Politics is concerned first and foremost with economic inequality in America. The book cites a mountain of data to show how the very highest tiers in the nation’s income distribution—not just the top 10 percent, but the top 1 percent and the top 0.1 percent—have become much wealthier while income growth has stagnated at the middle and bottom. In 1974 the top 0.1 percent of American families earned 2.7 percent of all income in the country. By 2007, Hacker and Pierson write, “the top 0.1 percent have seen their slice of the pie grow . . . to 12.3 percent of income—a more than fourfold increase” (emphasis in original).

But why, other than in service of envy, should we care how much more the rich rake in? One reason is welfare—greater redistribution would help those who are less well off. A second reason is democracy. In pondering the question of how much equality democracy requires, Rousseau answered, “no one should be so poor as to have to sell himself, nor so rich that he can buy another.” From this vantage, the danger of inequality is not immiseration (though there is plenty of that), but domination.

http://bostonreview.net/BR36.3/archon_fung_winner_take_all_politics.php

From John B.

In pondering the question of how much equality democracy requires, Rousseau answered, “no one should be so poor as to have to sell himself, nor so rich that he can buy another.” From this vantage, the danger of inequality is not immiseration (though there is plenty of that), but domination.

That's a good quote. Rousseau would be considered a communist today for saying that. To Republicans, the rule is: "whoever can buy off the most politicians wins."

My mistake, Houston...and, I acknowledge it.

Still...watch it just one more time.

I don't know why I was able to see the faces that weren't black chanting for candidate Obama....but unaccountably, the black faces were the ONLY ones you saw. Odd.

But...I do have some thoughts about why you didn't see the the others.

Anyway...

Whatever.

Truth is...you didn't answer my question, did you, Houston?

Did YOU chant too?

And...

Still chanting?

Mixed Bag

Did YOU chant too?

Uh, no. Most of us IT people are a little too left-brained to get into chanting. You have any more of your trademark stupid questions today?

Hoffa's pissed his loons are disappearing. I find it amusing the union goons talk about "evil rich" and Hoffa's one of them. He got rich off the backs of workers (and maybe stolen cars). Where's the outrage?

Union members made up a little over 11% of the workforce last year. Down about a point from the year before. Public sector union workers make up half of all union members. And they're losing ground everyday.

No wonder he's pissed. His kids might actually have to get a real job.

Doug Ponders

Union members made up a little over 11% of the workforce last year. Down about a point from the year before. Public sector union workers make up half of all union members. And they're losing ground everyday.

Yes. And middle class income has declined and the income of the wealthiest has increased as union membership has declined. Think there may be a connection there?

Houston: thanks for chiming in on the Hoffa comments. I went to realclearpolitics and found the quote that no jo said was on there, and sure enough...it is the right wing edited version. But, they are majority owned by Forbes after all. Sometimes, when I listen to the spin from the right, I feel like I am in Alice in Wonderland"s world, where down is up. Later.

Geez, Houston...

YOU initiated the discussion...as always.

lol

Not true. At 4.3 NJ said;

Hoffa was fomenting VIOLENCE against a group of Americans who oppose the policies of this administration

Rovian tactic #5 -- the BIG LIE.

Please post the link to the line. I'd like to get in on the action.

Ronald Reagan and tax cuts are all you'll hear at the debate.

Go to a bar and make it a drinking game, one shot for each candidate who invokes Ronald Reagan. But be sure to have a ride home, guaranteed that 1/4 way through the debate, you'll be bombed, which might not be a bad way to watch.

Chances are you'll be passed out before the first stump speech is over.

Well said, Steeler Fan. It is a shame than John Huntsman was not included. While I understand the 1% rule for debates to keep down the size, how can Huntsman ever get above it if, in these early debates, he is not included.

You'll hear the same old debate. The moderator will ask a question, the candidate will respond with their stump speech, after they've given their stump speech, the moderator will move on without making them answer the question. Debates are as worthless as the tea people GOP republicans.

I wish our President could answer just one of those questions.

dont forget to ask 'if you fail in your proposals are you willing to resign afterwards?'

Actually Nash, for the most part those are good questions that deserve answers. Each answer should begin with "More than Obama has done." Let's see if they stay away from the stupid "gotcha" questions that add nothing to the debate.

White Collar:

President Obama answers these questions and more each and every day. And then ya'll ask him for his birth certificate. Seeing as we are no longer losing 750,000 jobs a month, no longer looking for Osama bin Laden, and no longer fighting endless and undefined wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think the President's answers are clear to see for folks not getting their news from bought and paid for corporate shills.

Obama quotes:

If I can't fix Bush's failed economy in 3 years I do not deserve a second term"

Bush took out a credit card from China and wants our children to pay the debt. That is unpatrotic.

The Republicans can come along for the ride while I fix the economy, but they have to ride in the back seat.

Seems his "plan" is now to have a "plan". 32 months later......

Excellent questions Nash. For both tonight and for the general election.

Tony C:

What is the Republican plan? What are the Republican answers? You gots nothing but whining and lies.

Nothing.

The Republican plan in 2012 is very similar to the Democrat's plan in 2008, replace an unpopular president and his failing policies, hopefully picking up majorities in both houses to boot. And their answer is "No".

The question (to the electorate) is "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago"...

The elections of the past 3 congressional cycles have been expressions of disappointment with the incumbent party, and the election of 2012 looks like it will be also.

President Obama won in large part because he wasn't President Bush, whose approvals were in the low 30's.

If President Obama's approvals are below 50% and unemployment is over 8%, the election will not be determined by which candidate has the best hypothetical answers to questions, but whether or not the electorate believes that they have been inadequately addressed by the incumbent in the previous 4 years.

So exactly which of those questions has Obama answered? They are excellent questions by the way, but unfortunately I fail to see where either side has provided a legitimate answer thats good for the country.

What specifically will you propose as President to address the high unemployment rate in this country?

How about we provide money to repair the failing infrastructure in this country. Repair or replace roads and bridges. Improve and update the aging power grids. Start with ways to implement high speed transit between major hubs.

Etc. But you can bet none of these questions will be answered to our satisfaction because it wouldn't be politically correct

Those same questions are really questions that you should ask Democrats and the President. The Republicans have submitted plans on various items only to be criticised and put down with misinformation and exaggerations. No counter "plans". Post a link to one Obama "plan" in writing with specifics and details that can be scored by the CBO. Bet you can't.

Tony C:

Each and everything that has happened that actually matters over the past 3 years was as a result of President Obama's plans, also known as "dithering" by the shoot first and ask questions later crowd in the GOP.

You gots nothing Tony. Nothing. Just like the GOP.

You means Obama's failed "stimulus plan" full of "shovel ready" jobs? You mean "cash for clunkers"? You mean the mortgage assistance that resulted in more defaults in the long run? You mean unemployment at 8% and under? You are right, Obama certainly dithers. Talk about nothing. That is exactly what Obama delivers and you seem to subscribe to the plan...Oh yea more plans than jobs created last month.

Tony:

If there were no shovel ready jobs, then how did the Republicans pose with all those big a$$ checks in their districts claiming credit for the stimulus jobs created?

White House Challenges Republicans Claiming Credit for Projects they Tried to Stop

Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.) is pictured above presenting a $625,000 check to the City of Cedartown in 2009. – Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.), who is shown posing with a giant check in a Nov. 5, 2009, article in the Cedartown Standard. Gingrey presented Cedarville with $625,000 in stimulus money to "fund new sidewalks, landscaping and other improvements to the downtown area," according to the article. – Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), praising a $106,901 Recovery Act grant to the Alma Police Department as a "local initiative" that would help "toward solving local problems that policies set in Washington [sic]." According to the White House document, Kingston also took credit for four additional Recovery Act projects, including a $108,652 grant to the Blackshear Housing Authority and a $2.7 grant million for low-income families in Savannah. – House Minority Leader Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio), who issued a statement on his Web site that he was "pleased that federal officials have stepped in" to order Ohio to use its stimulus funds for "shovel-ready" construction projects. – Rep. John Mica (R-Fl.), who applauded the Recovery Act's $8 billion for high-speed rail investment in a press release. He later said that he “applaud[s] President Obama's recognition that high-speed rail should be part of America's future,” according to the document. – Rep. John Carter (R-Texas), who hailed a $621 million stimulus grant for new hospitals at Fort Hood after initially charging that the stimulus would "pile debt on future generations.” – Rep. Mary Bono Mack (R-Calif.), who praised a $4.2 million stimulus grant to her district to prevent homelessness, asserting that the "funding will provide much-needed assistance." – Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), who, after voting against the stimulus, posted to his Twitter, "Stimulus Incentive Is Very Generous! Up to 8k! Check It Out!" – Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-Texas), who said that an $8.6 million grant for a Veterans Affairs extended care facility would help to "spur growth in Texas communities." – Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), who applauded $2 million to build a new volunteer fire department in Bethlehem and told the Hickory Daily Record, "We're not accustomed to federal dollars in that magnitude finding their way to North Carolina.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/02/white-house-challenges-republicans-claiming-credit-for-projects-they-tried-to-stop-/

So, is Obama going to pose with a $535 million dollar check to Solyndra?

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/583962/201109061842/SolarGate.htm

This is corruption at its finest.

If he won't quit- impeach him.

The stimulus provided short term "sugar" highs that did not create long term employment nor create jobs anywhere close to the numnber of jobs that Obama claimed it would. Also, these jobs and the money that was spent locally by state and local governments ran out and the layoffs that were postponed happened. This is the problem with government solutions. The engine of real job growth is the private sector. Unless Obama changes course, the economy will not recover. The last 32 months prove this. More people working in the private sector paying taxes will save the economy and save the budgets in states and local governments. Government spending will not do this.

Hmmm, that sounds like a threat Tony. Too bad its not your decision.

P.S. Better to invest in America and lose than drop billions in Iraq never to be seen again.

Nashvile, what are talking about? I will say it again, the economy in the next 16 months will look no different than today, maybe worse. Obama will not change. He never admits his mistakes...Obama just makes excuses. Hows that? Better. LOL LOL

Leaders take responsibility....Losers make excuses....Obama is the king of excuses with a side of blame for every excuse.

I didn't realize cash for clunkers was a disaster. I thought people bought new cars in amounts greater than before. Even allowed that ungracious Ford Motor company to survive without that dreaded government support. What a fool am I.

I can't prove a negative, so I guess the stimulus plan must have failed. Not losing more jobs can never be ascertained, and the increase in private sector jobs just doesn't count as success, especially in the face of declining public payrolls caused by the bad economy. What a fool am I.

I guess continuation of the so called Bush tax cuts have proven to be a success. Somehow I thought the creation of zero net jobs would be considered a failure. What a fool am I.

I guess that tax cuts in the stimulus (a large percentage of the package) didn't work since everyone seems to hate the stimulus and we still have high unemployment. Maybe we need more tax cuts so we can finally prove that they work. What a fool am I.

Somehow corporations with more cash than they can effectively employ need greater tax cuts so they can have more money not to effectively employ. We should give it a shot because the evidence to date is inconclusive. What a fool am I.

Let's make sure that the EPA is eliminated so we can all watch the annual Cleveland river fire on the fourth of July. And I thought the fireworks in New York and Boston were just fine. What a fool am I.

Let's get rid of the department of education so we can eliminate all that red tape that eliminates all hope for actually educating someone. I thought the regional educational discrepancies of the past had been eliminated. Yet, the DoE has managed to make everyone's educational pursuits impossible regardless of region. How much success can we stand. What a fool am I.

Let's eliminate all that entitlement stuff. It only soaks up the funding for more useful capabilities- like being able to eliminate anyone on this earth without really trying. Especially those who won't kiss our feet when they are told to do so. What a fool am I.

I can see the future, and it is bright (like a nuclear bomb blast). It's been staring me in the face all this time, only I didn't see it.

What a fool am I!!

peteslat -

Cash for Clunkers was a failure. It artificially inflated vehicle sales for a short period of time. As soon as it was over, the demand went away and sales went down. So instead of a steady volume of vehicles being sold over a normal length of time a creating a stable plant environment, a high volume was built in weeks and chaos ensued.

Plants went into overtime (which the Union loved because it meant time and a half pay) and then plants shut down because demand was not there (which the Unions loved because idled UAW workers recieve 95% of their pay), so it cost the Auto manufacturers, it did not help them.

A.Complete.Disaster.

Moreover, peteslat, it removed salable used cars from car lots- raising the price on those left- which precluded the poorer buyers from purchasing useable vehicles.

It also benfited foreign car manufacturers far more than domestic manufacturers.

But do go on believing it was a "success"

You said it brother! You're a fool! How much are you short this month? You need some free money, I'm paying!

I see Tony never tires of having the same conversations repeatedly. He was working those same lines -- and failing with them all weekend.

HoJoBloMo:

[If he won't quit- impeach him.]

Jesus H. Christ on a pop sickle stick...impeach him ON WHAT GROUNDS?

So tell us, if you think there was ANYTHING impeachable about the president, don't you think the GOP/Teabaggers would have jumped all over it by now?

C'mon, tell us that you're not that stupid...or do you actually believe that impeachment crap you wrote?

...NJNB...?

...Bueller...?

...BUELLER...?

...no wonder nobody believes the crap you post...well, almost nobody...Schpanky seems to have a thing for you...

Who started the Iraq War boondoggle?

Who fought two wars with no way to pay for them?

Who borrowed money to give the rich a tax cut?

Who turned a surplus into a deficit?

Who presided over the housing, stock market, and job market imploding simultaneously?

What stopped the "job creators" from creating jobs during the 6 years the Republicans controlled the Congress and White House? Why did President Bush have the worst job creation record in history?

More paid trollisms from the corporate disinformation department.

Transparent and ridiculous.

You certainly are "laser focused" and "shovel ready" along with the name calling and hateful tone. You represent the normal liberal "civil" approach to constructive dialog. But, I bet you subscribe to "compromise" in word, not deed. Something along the lines of Obama...

The hemorrhage started a long time ago with two lost wars and 7,168 American lives wasted. $4,000,000,000,000 flushed down the drain accounts for about 1/4th of the debit we have run up. Bring bush and cheney to trial. No skip the trial and just go on with the executions!

I'm sorry, I must have missed it, did you answer any of the questions? It's all about your "feelings", eh?

Poor baby.

Because if one posts ignorant questions does not mean any one has to answer them. Why would any one want to give any credence to worn out stupid questions?

Ben:

Because the answer is President George W. Bush and his allies in the private sector and Congress used this country as their private piggy bank and sucked this country dry. They sent our jobs overseas, ignored common sense regulations, and hid their stolen money overseas. And then they used the media outlets to spread disinformation and lies about what they did.

Now that is just the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And their ain't a damn thing you can write or say to change it.

I defer to Ms Wasserman-Shultz, I believe you know the rest of the statement. Your fearful DNC spokesperson!

I posted a statement of fact. The same old worn out "talking" points as questions as a response to what I posted just shows that after 32 months of this administration blame and excuses are the primary focus. I sure want to see Obama's campaign speeches that he made before he got elected played over and over before the next election so that people can see and hear that what they got was all talk and that is what we are still getting, all talk with blame and excuses. Leaders take responsibility. Losers make excuses. The latest excuse is Congress. Don't get me wrong, Congress is a problem. Interesting that everything that happened during the Bush years according to Obama was Bush's fault. Now Obama, still in the excuse mode, found a east target, Congress, to divert attention away from his failed policies.During the Bush years it was Bush. Now during the Obama years it is the Congress. Obama is all about shifting blame.

Well, the 9/11 ten year anniversary is just days away. Can't wait to see all the liberals telling us that it was all Bush's fault.

I just read a story about the ticket agent that gave Mohammed Atta and the others their boarding passes. He said he was thinking to himself "if these guys don't look like Arab terrorists, I don't know who does." But there was nothing he could do about his suspicions. He's been living with the guilt the last decade that he had this gut feeling and that the liberal religion of political correctness that has infected our nation would not let him say anything. That was on Sept 11, 2001.

But here we are in Sept 2010 and liberals STILL won't let people act on their gut feelings or use their common sense when it comes to Islamic Terrorism. Libs have done everything they possibly can to undermine and weaken our fight against the Islamofacist threat. Any extra scrutiny on muslims is met with liberal cries of "profiling" and "racism." Goddamn all you treasonous bastards.

Tony C:

Please explain what it is that you are expecting the President to do without Congress to address the problems we are currently facing.

It is not an excuse if it is true Tony. Just because you refuse to acknowledge the truth does not mean it ceases to exist.

What can the President do by himself? Do tell.

Damage:

Is that really your best effort this morning? I mean, that is pretty sad. . . all you gots is some 9-11 flavored BS?

Wow. Wow. Wow.

He can follow in Mr Clinton's foot steps, which I think we are going to see soon. If he wants any chance of re-election!

@Nash -- And the unsubstantiated answers to your own questions -- unless of course you were part of the Bush administration -- mean absolutely nothing. So what if it is the truth? The only result is that it will make you and your ilk happy?? If so, how pathetic. The past is the past and there are no "Mulligans" or do-overs. What needs to be addressed now is that we can not afford more of the same from 10 years ago not from 3 years ago and current. The dems need to take over the House, secure a super majority in the Senate and keep the presidency and then march in unison if your agenda is to move forward. Short of that, having this failed president re-elected is no more beneficial to this country than having President Bush re-elected.

The problem, Nash, is that Obama is following the insanity plan- doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

By all accounts, he is going to ask for another $300 billion slush fund- purportedly so out of work carpenters, Sheetrock tapers, and plumbers can go build roads. You know, those shovel ready jobs he jokes don't exist.

In actuality, this is a honeypot to attract big dollar donors- like the last stimulous.

He really does think we're too dumb to figure it out.

Ben:

Unsubstantiated claims? The policies of the Bush Adminsitration led us to the hole we are in now. There is absolutely just no question about that. What is the truth? Read that first sentence again. You say you don't want "more of the same", but what is the current Republican party offering other than more of the same?

The President has not failed. We are better off now than when he was elected. That too is a statement of fact. And this in SPITE of the Congress, who has offered absolutely NOTHING in the way of reality based policy to help anyone other than their damn selves.

So you can say you don't like President Obama, you can say you won't vote for President Obama, but what you can't say is that anyone else is offering a better alternative. Because they aren't.

The President can start by not attacking segments of the American population which only serves to divide, not unite. Obama needs to separate the "person" from the problem so to speak. Conflict is a shared problem that a leader can conquer by bringing people together without a prelude full of blame.

Job creators are in the private sector. Obama has established a tone of anti-business and anti-wealth creation. His approach needs to change if there is to be job creation.

I will say it again. Bush made stupid mistakes. Bush was not a good President. Who is it that can't handle the truth here? Obama has proved to be a poor President as well. You own statement is interesting. You refuse to acknowledge the truth which doesn't mean it ceases to exist. Obama shows a total lack of leadership ability and the economy is not recovering. All true.

Tony:

If saving the banks, auto industry, and Wall Street, along with delaying EPA regulations, creating numerous tax breaks for small business, plus all the "secret stimulus" being delivered by the Fed is setting an anti-business tone, then "business" can kiss my a#@.

Hope that is clear enough for ya.

The "corporate people" got every damn thing they wanted under President Bush and all we have to show for it is subprime mortgages and high unemployment.

Because the "corporate people" own Congress AND the Supreme Court, the pretty much are still getting EACH and EVERY thing they want.

So again I say, if that ain't enough, tough titty.

I really and truly am feeling very little empathy for their greedy, corrupt, and lying a$#@.

They are the problem, not the solution, and you know that as well as I do, but are being compensated handsomely to "feel" differently.

Answer me this Tony, if the private sector is so great, where is there plans to help anyone other than their damn selves? Who is stopping them?

Ok Nashville. Would you like me to ask you again to explain your idea that Whites who have good jobs and have acted responsibly, had it all handed to them from their ancestors?

Damage:

You can ask me anything you want to sweet cheeks. I mean, that really is all you got, so I wouldn't want to deprive you of it. Week after week, you and race. It is eating you alive. Sucks to be you.

@Nash -- I don't have your rose-colored glasses that distorts one's common sense and blinds one to actual reality. The vast majority of Americans in reality and in the polls are way worse off then they were three years ago. There are no facts to back up your claim -- especially that lame list of accomplishments being regurgitated on Newsvine which includes appointed committees, etc.

The cold hard facts are that people -- this country is suffering -- and a leader who can not get things done no matter what adversity is put in his way can not be tolerated for four more years unless your party can deliver the necessary majorities in the House & Senate and then march in unison. You can't see that???? No amount of name calling will change the outcome if Obama is re-elected. You are not going to shame the other side no matter how hard you try -- and that is also a cold-hard fact!

The Republicans/TP will not work with this failed president. He has burnt one too many bridges. The dems need to realize this and run Hillary in 2012 if they wish to salvage anything. Or else you are committing suicide.

Nashville, you are just a bitter hateful person. You need to really accept that everyone is not going to agree with you and that your opinoin is no better than someone else's. I will not respond to your jabs. This country is full of opportunity. You can either take advantage of the opportunity or go through life being hateful and bitter complaining about this or that. Your choice.

The economy is in trouble. The Fed is treating the symptoms, the cause is in the White House. The cure is 16 months away......

Nashville....they help their employee's and investors! I know I appreciate my employer and the Corps I invest in for their returns! Business is not in the business of helping you. Thats YOUR job!

Ben and Tony C:

You. got. nothing.

I am not trying to convince either of you of anything. I am simply using the TRUTH to point out that ya'll don't know wtf you are talking about.

Sorry if that ain't what you wanted to hear, but enough is truly enough.

jolly:

Uh huh. Funny how it is everybody's job to help business, but nobody's job to help actual people. WTF is the government for? The Founding Fathers said the government was of the people, by the people, and for the people, but the corporate owned clowns tell us we are supposed to pay taxes to so they can get a tax break.

No deal.

D123: Ok Nashville. Would you like me to ask you again to explain your idea that Whites who have good jobs and have acted responsibly, had it all handed to them from their ancestors?

Nash: You can ask me anything you want to sweet cheeks. I mean, that really is all you got, so I wouldn't want to deprive you of it. Week after week, you and race. It is eating you alive. Sucks to be you.

A respectfully asked question, followed by a hateful response. Liberals are unable to back up their loony statements. And that's most true for NF.

Nashville, your misinformation and exaggerations do not qualify as the truth.

Here are more facts for you: After 32 months of Obama

Trending up - The national debt, job layoffs, gold prices and healthcare costs

Trending down - The economy, the dollar, job creation, and home values.

The American people are figuring it out, more every day. Look at the polls. Truth man.

I bet everything that went wrong in your life was someone else's fault.

Tony:

Please tell me one thing I wrote that was not true. (I know, you can't. And I know, you are paid by the word. Just had to ask.)

JoAnna (referring to D123): A respectfully asked question

And yet, only a few paragraphs above, D123 had the following to say:

Libs have done everything they possibly can to undermine and weaken our fight against the Islamofacist threat. Any extra scrutiny on muslims is met with liberal cries of "profiling" and "racism." Goddamn all you treasonous bastards.

Respectful? Really?

Tony C, JAS1, no joe are all paid trolls for Karl Rove. All you have to do is read their responses to other posters. They follow the Rove play book to a tee.

It's time for us Liberals on this site to just skip over their posts and ignore them. If we don't respond to them their posts won't mean anything, we're the ones keeping them relevant.

Interesting you ignore facts and ask me to tell you what you posted that was not true. Take your pick. All you post are rants and hatful comments. You can't dispute the data on the economy so you just rant about what and who you don't like. Really funny, I will take the complement. I am really good at this. I should be paid. LOL

PS I don't need the money....

Mo, yep, go run and hide. LOL. You from Wisconsin? LOL. Too bad you can't hold a "civil" discussion. Can't handle other views can you? Guess what, enough voters are figuring it out. You will be the one ignored along with your socialist ideas, after the next election.....buy a crying towel...LOL

Mo: It's time for us Liberals on this site to just skip over their posts and ignore them.

Mo, these type of decisions should be done in Executive Session in the LibsRUs II chat room. And please do take care to verify those privacy features this time.

Also, you guys haven't come up with any silly acronyms that only you understand for a while. What's up with that?

And I won't ignore your posts Mo. They are just too entertaining.

When confronted with their lies, the subject is quickly changed. Now, instead of politics and policy, they want to discuss individual posters and their feeeeeeelings.

Checkmate.

Nashville, You talking to yourself about youself.....wow.

Nashfans:

Checkmate.

Nash, any time anyone challenges you on policy you do your stale old "You're dismissed" line and run away.

Anything Nash had to say was complete right here;

The "corporate people" got every damn thing they wanted under President Bush and all we have to show for it is subprime mortgages and high unemployment.

Conservative economic principles failed in the Great Depression, they've been failing for the last 30+ years, they've failed in other nations as documented by John A, and they'll continue to fail in the future.

It is a bankrupt policy that will continue to bankrupt the nation if we let it.

Hi Jody--I think it might be a battle for which one is really the"annointed of God" to bring our country "back to its roots"! Bring on the popcorn!

"We have met the enemy and he is us!" Pogo by Walt Kelly

So,

Tonight is the night of the disloyal political debate eh? The debate that the cry baby John of Orange used to committ treason in refusing the President of the USA (First time this ever happened) a joint session of congress. At least we now know where the Republican't party stands on jobs. And that stand is not to stand on Jobs at all but to work for the defeat of Obama and nothing else.

In 2012 ladies and gentlemen, lets vote out every single Teabagger and Republican't from office and lets make sure their next job is working at McDonalds flipping burgers.

Pretty elitist and condescending wouldn't you say?

lets make sure their next job is working at McDonalds flipping burgers.

Jody, I don't expect any more out of tonight's debate than I do out of tomorrow's speech. Going to be pretty much the same old stuff.

I know the Left will hope for either a huge gaffe by Perry or some "In-Fighting", tonight, that will make MSM headlines, but in the end nothing substantial from the speech or the debate.

Tax baby Tax, and spend baby spend.

Must be easy to say Job1 when you're not the one paying taxes eh?

You must be confuse with Hoffa's comments and Obama's "remarks" on Labor Day.

Darn right. Take these SOB's out by voting these right wingers out.

I notice job put the voting thing in there!

The truth in what Jimmy Hoffa said.

Watch the video

He said, “Everybody’s got a vote, and let's take these SOB's out.”

Job I was there, its was only a few miles from my home! I can tell you NO one heard anything after the take em out portion of the speech!

I did watch the video- the words "vote" "ballot box" or "election" are not there.

They do appear in his interview with ABC- the next day. Not in front of his bloodthirsty crowd, but in a telephone interview- where he talks about voting, but also claims that the TEA Party declared war first.

He is a loathsome individual of whom Obama is "proud".

Good one, lilbear68!

Your remarks are as intelligent as a "hampster".... .

More like the little pellets that fall out of a hampsters butt!

Nice post, Robert 1960. You pretty much summed up the sum and substance of Rick Perry which is "all hat and no cattle".

Which is why he got elected to a third term. . .

no joe.

He did get elected to a third term, you are right and I was disappointed that only 4 million out of 17 .5 million registered voters in Texas actually voted.

Rick Perry got 2,733,784 votes

Bill White got 2,102,606 votes.

Perry did not carry any of the large cities, Houston, Austin, San Antonio and Dallas all went blue

When people do not care enough to vote you can't gripe about who is Governor. Besides the Governor here in Texas is more of a figure head, the Texas Constitution limits the Governors powers. The Lieutenant Governor is the one actually running the show, Perry is the token politician here.

According to realclearpolitics, Perry got 55.1% of the vote, and beat White by almost 13% points.

That is a clear majority. Moreover, it would seem to me that if he was such a terrible governor, more people would have been moved to get out and vote for White- but did not.

I'm thinking that you are a liberal unhappy living in a conservative state. Might I suggest you relocate to California?

no thanks and not a liberal just calling it like I know it. Perry lost all of the large cities here, he is a joke in my humble opinion. Because I am not a liberal I can't call out an idiot like Perry? I just do not align myself with any party ideology

I am not defending George W but they both were/are my governor and I assure you Perry does not even come close to Bush in terms of a leader and someone that gets stuff done. I want him out of Texas but certainly not at the expense of America.

LEB, "Republican Taliban" this is what you have for us that don't vote like you. The liberals have really shown their intolerant and RACIST colors here. You are proof. You are the only ones who can talk this way, we would be thrown under the bus for calling you this.

hood winked an entire state for years. Thats pretty good, is texas a big state...lots of voters? Keep insulting them, Im sure they love it.......NOT!

MRWSR, where did LEB say anything about race? Seems you have a reading comprehension problem.

Yea, we are so bad off here in Texas. Lets see, my house never went down in value, actually up a small amount. The economy is good. No state income tax. Good job market. Good place to live all things considered. Right now the liberas wil find fault, it is dig dirt on Perry time.

Jody, Repulican Taliban is enough for me. This not only refers me to being a terrorist, but discriminates. But you people of "comprhension" can use them freely without account.

Tony C-2383666

Not sure where you are but my house and all of them around me lost value. Mine alone lost 25K in three years so the county raised taxes to adjust the lost income so I paid almost the same amount as before my house lost so much value.
Good economy? average wage in Texas is 14.61 per hour, 26% of all Texans have no health care, 1 in 4 kids live in Poverty here, education ranks 47th, 10% of Texans make at or below minimum wage tied with Mississippi, each bordering state has lower unemployment than Texas, 66% graduation, highest teen pregnancy and highest repeat teen pregnancy. There are about 127,000 available jobs and 474,000 available unemployed workers. You are right no state tax but one of the highest sales tax near highest cost of living regarding property taxes. Texas is in graet shape.

Robert, it is a fact that values in Texas overall have dropped far less than some states where values are down 50%. In my area, not down. Schools are great around me. They actually tried to raise my value even higher for tax purposes. Texas has some problems, mostly in the large cities for lots of reasons. That is where the population is and that is what drives the numbers. Most if not all of those large cities are controlled by Democrats. Still the state is better off than a lot of the country. Explain the growth and the 4 new House seats in Congress? You think, maybe, the federal government plays some role in the problems in every state? Check Monster and Careerbuilder. The available jobs total more than that. There are a bunch of unfilled high paying jobs.

Tony, yeah I just moved from Tarrant County to Dallas. My home in Tarrant co. is the one that lost so much value, thank goodness it was paid off. Dallas is the one that raised property tax to offset the loss of Taxes from property values went down.

Robert, I am in Denton County. There are parts of Denton County where values are down as well. But overall only a few percentage points. I am not sure about the sales tax claim you made. When I travel it seems, the sales taxes are higher where I go.

Don't you love it. California. A state that is almost bankrupt with 12% unemployment and what do they worry about? Babbysitters and drink cups. No surprise they vote Democratic.

Obama in 2012

No more Hope, never saw the Change. The guy has a record this time. And it's not good.

You got it California Tom, Obama/Biden 2012!!!!

Sorry, JS1, I disagree on not seeing a change.

Civilian labor force down to 1983 levels is a change.

Unemployment, if those people are added back in at almost double when Obama took office is a change.

Consumer confidence so low you need to look up to see it is a change.

Inflation up is a change.

Iran running their nuclear reactor is a change.

There's been plenty of change- what people forgot was that not all change is good.

Sometimes it's disastrous.

So, yes, Obama brought about change. Change along the lines of a train wreck, but, nonetheless, change.

Nice post, Job1.

What worked in the 1980's won't work now. In fact, what took place in the 80's is exactly the failed policies that the GOPTP put forth as new ideas today. Even Reagan realized his trickle down economics really was voodoo as Bush 41 had said, and within a year had raised taxes and continued to do so for the rest of his term--only he never did much to raise them on the wealthiest 2%. Reagan did, however, overhaul the tax code to eliminate the special interest tax subsidies but slowly, those subsidies in the form of tax breaks have been reinstated.

I know this is not politically relevant, but the photo that greeted me on the way to this discussion made me want to pack my bags and become a hermit on a mountaintop.

Perry HAD to have studied SEVERAL of W's 'deer in the headlights photos to come up with that expression.

This is getting very scary, Mr. President. Your 2nd term is indeed in terrible jeopardy. Your supporters are sooo disheartened that many are going to pull a 'sheeple' by voting(or not voting) against their own interest in 2012. You have creatated a foundation for doom by believing that we have nowhere else to go.

The repugnicrite plan and execute/ push the message/attack attack attack MOD may finish you off and then us.

and the Koch brothers decide which candidate they can purchase so they own the country soon!

Better than Jimmy Hoffa...

koch koch koch......rove rove rove Be boop da doo wop be my baby!