At this point I'm not sure why the President should even bother giving the speech...

It's 'carcass' continues to be picked to the bone by the vultures & it's already been called a failure.

I'm consoled knowing we have so many clairvoyants here in the good old U S of A! lol

On another note - am I the only one who has a sneaking suspicion that Slick Rick is gonna slither out of tomorrow nights debate?

Will Chuck Todd throw another hissy fit?

I wouldn't doubt he will slither feisty. He would not know honor if it were staring him straight in the face. Eventually though, america will see what a phony he really is.

Seems he wouldn't debate last year;

The League of Women Voters of the Houston Area and the Harris County Department of Education are hosting a debate for our Texas Governor’s Race.

This debate will be held at 6PM Sunday, October 3 at the Harris County Board of Education building located at 6300 Irvington Boulevard in Houston.

(Above–Incumbent Governor Rick perry refuses to debate this year. I think the League should set up an empty chair for the Governor. Above you see a Saddle Chair. Maybe the Governor would attend if he could imagine himself a cowboy during the debate.)

http://www.hcde-texas.org/docs/221-TXGub-invite-eblast6.pdf

"I'm consoled knowing we have so many clairvoyants here in the good old U S of A! lol"

Speaking of clairvoyant, heck, going out on a limb here....

Prediction: even if Obama's pants fall down, he trips over the podium, or declares martial law, or faints on stage, old Feisty will like her hero Obama's speech. She will think it is brilliant!

Obama doesnt have the skill set to lead this country on jobs. Let's vote for change in 2012!

Feisty will like her hero Obama's speech. She will think it is brilliant!

_____________________________________________

Nasty doesn't have much of a life. Labor Day weekend is the last big party weekend of the summer for most normal people. Just for a laugh, I decided to skim through the weekend FR stories this morning and she had the first post on pretty much every one of the eight or so FR stories over the weekend. Imagine spending YOUR Labor day weekend doing that!!!

In one sense, it's sad, but, it's also Hillaryous!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's face it in 2008 alot of inexperienced voters made a terrible mistake. A human resource manager at a McDonalds reading Obamas resume back then would have questioned his management and leadership skills. It's encouraging to listen to these same voters realize a mistake was made and they can correct it in 2012. Most of you know I was against handing this country over to such an inexperienced leader prior to the election of '08. How ever I do know many young people who learned a valuable lesson in selecting thier political leaders. I witnessed this same regret when Jimmy Carter was replaced by Ronald Reagan. The country can be fixed. It just takes better leadership. VOTE FOR CHANGE IN 2012!

It will be a Great speech. However, the stuck on stupid folks most likely want like it.

A Jobs Plan Showdown -- What would be nice is if there really was a competition to see which Party could create the most jobs. Instead it will be the usual President Obama/Dems trying to find solutions, and the Grand Obstructionist Party trying to thwart any positive, viable progress for our nation.

Hi Feisty,

A good point. Old Slick Rick could chicken out of the debate.

Describe "big". It's a pretty relative term.

From where I sit, Obama will-

Ask for a honeypot. He will call it an "investment bank", which rhymes with "slush fund". He needs money so he can pay off this year's donors tenfold with taxpayer money, the way he did with stimulous funds.

He will also ask that the payroll tax holiday be extended.

He will ask congress to amend patent law.

He will, ludicrously, ask Congress to approve three free trade deals he HAS NOT SUBMITTED TO CONGRESS. One of you professional journalists want to call him, or that idiot Carney, out on that some time? I mean, is it not your job?

He will then ask for bipartisanship, because, after all, it is for the good of the country that he get his own way, on every issue, and congress stops making him look bad when he asks them to sign on to things like a "grand bargain" that is so awesomely wonderful that he can't write it down. The glow from the ink would blind mere humans.

He is, after all, the only "adult in the room", which is why his debt negotiations went along the lines of "I'm thinking of a number. . ."

Actually, the best thing he could do was announce that he's resigning. Or, at the least, not running for reelection.

Of course, that will happen when elephants roost in trees.

Oh, yes, I almost forgot-

It won't matter what he says- the swooners will swoon, while the rest of America says WTF.

Feisty, I'm on the same page. Saw that question raised earlier today and wondered if he'll pass. He's a good little slitherer, isn't he? Not known for being slick Rick for nothing.

steveiam

yawn

steve-i-o A message for you.

http://i.imgur.com/mjbaU.jpg

Wake up

Obama already "blew" the previous stimulus on more entitlements; no jobs were gained from it.

Then, Obama "blew" more money on the energy company bail-outs: Solyndra, Evergreen, etc., who went bankrupt.

Why would America give this fool anymore money ????

Will Chuck Todd throw another hissy fit?

FIESTY,

It pays his salary.

i think it was good of his man hoffa to give us a glimpse of bam bam's "final solution"

Job1- in case you did not know it, there is a serious wildfire burning in the Austin area of Texas. Perry had committedmto DeMint's forum, but cancelled to return to Texas during what is, in anyone's estimation, a pretty severe crisis.

I hope he is there to debate tomorrow evening, but certainly understand that he might not be.

Not every elected official ia comfortable ducking responsibility for political purposes- to say nothing of their own self indulgence.

I am in mind of a certain politician who ordered an invasion, then hopped on a plane foe Samba lessons. Wife, kids, motherinlaw in tow.

President Obama is far more intelligent than anyone running against him. I hope he sticks with the American people, who are sitting back, holding their breaths, hoping he'll stick it to those who refuse to work with him in Congress. So much time lost.

If Congress does not want to work with him on his Jobs Plan, then he ought to just out and out name names. For the entire country to hear it.

Someone told me this morning that he had read an article recently about President Obama's time as a community organizer, and that this had hurt him. Because of this experience, President Obama is too willing to work with people. It has been drilled into him from an early age that the best way to get things done is to do it together.

This is how low we have come now. Working with people has now become a negative. This doesn't surprise me though. Beginning in the '80's, it has been every man for himself. It is now considered a weakness to work alongside someone in a professional, dignified manner to get things done.

A weakness.

I'm not sure anyone would have thought we would have a United States Government who refuses to do anything to see us succeed, because it would mean helping our Democratic President. But they get away with it, mainly because the media covers for them.

President Obama is head and tails above the Republicans in integrity, grace, manner, and work ethic. I hope the Nation sees this again Thursday night.

Think Progress wrote today that Romney's article today in USA was full of lies. So what else is new?

Will anything come of Koch calling our President a terrorist? Certainly not. The Koch Bros. are the ones who want power. It's why they're spending so much money.

A vote for an R is a vote for the Koch Brothers. As nasty two men as you will ever ever meet here in America.

"Charles and David, the third and fourth richest men in America, first gained notoriety in the fall, when a remarkable expose by Jane Mayer in the New Yorker showed how they'd funded not only the Tea Party but also the hydra-headed campaign to undermine the science of global warming, all in the service of even more profit for their oil and gas business."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mckibben/koch-brothers-the-us-cham_b_834462.html

______________________________________

To the working people of America. If you vote for an R, life as you know it is over in this country. The Republicans want cheap labor, at you and all our expense.

Unions do one thing perfectly - they work together. We all should. And get rid of the Republicans. They are no GD good.

A good point. Old Slick Rick could chicken out of the debate.

Saw that question raised earlier today and wondered if he'll pass.

Job1 & Gingerbread Mamma - Slick Rick has a documented history of refusing debates...

The weasal can run but he can't hide forever...

Not every elected official ia comfortable ducking responsibility for political purposes- to say nothing of their own self indulgence.

Get back to me when Slick Rick is on the front line with a hose will ya?

The President will likely give yet another great speech on Thursday.

He generally does.

It's leading, governing, and implementing effective policies that he can't seem to get a handle on...he's pretty much state-of-the-art at giving speeches.

Hey NOJO - isn't funny in a really sad way that neither Job1 or Feisty understand that Perry isn't "ducking" anything. In fact he is doing his job - he's the executive of Texas.

But I guess we need to cut them some slack - they voted for and got Obama as the country's executive. Obama very clearly had no experience or idea what that means.

In fact this new jobs speech will be bitterly disappointing to the libbies, of that there is no doubt. The only actual issue will be how low the market will go on Friday.

The Old Gal:

Get back to me when Slick Rick is on the front line with a hose will ya?

Absolutely stunning in its insight - Feisty really is that clueless about what being the executive, being in charge and being the boss actually means.

In libbie-Land - it's just the guy that makes the speeches.

Truly and totally astounding. Thhey really are that ignorant about how the world actually works.

Poor Feisty.

Pat, Boston, MA

Pat. in response to the note you left me in FT I could not reply because the computer went down

Obama Most Disrespected President Ever

Since taking office, President Barack Obama has faced a barrage of disrespect.

From conservative pundits constant slip-of-the-tongue references to Obama as "Osama," Glenn Beck claiming the president "hates white people" and even Donald Trump's overhyped demands to see the president's birth certificate, critics have levied some very brazen, almost radical assaults against Obama.

And while some say it's just politics as usual, others are questioning whether race is making Obama the most disrespected U.S. president in history.

The "You lie!" shout during the president's speech on health care reform before the joint session of Congress in Sept. 2009

The recent posturing, walk-outs and tantrums thrown over the debt ceiling debate, which eventually led to our country's credit being downgraded.

Newt Gingrich referring to the president as "the food stamp president" and saying that Pres. Obama "knows how to get the whole country to resemble Detroit."

Glenn Beck: "Hey Let's Kill Obama…I Mean Bin Laden"

The question among some of us who love this country and want to see it succeed is what all of this is all about? Because it just seems there is a pissing contest going on, but the only ones getting wet are the American people; many of whom are suffering through the worst economy of their lives.

http://newsone.com/nation/washington-watch/thegrio1/obama-disrespected-president/

Spanky-

The Old Gal:

Get back to me when Slick Rick is on the front line with a hose will ya?

Absolutely stunning in its insight - Feisty really is that clueless about what being the executive, being in charge and being the boss actually means.

In libbie-Land - it's just the guy that makes the speeches.

Truly and totally astounding. Thhey really are that ignorant about how the world actually works.

Poor Feisty.

Spanky- the ignore you button is on

The subject was jobs, but there was NoJo with her nasty diatribes against our current President. On a more serious note, the situation in Texas is dire, and whether it should or not, it may cost Gov. Perry this chance at a Presidential run. One of the downsides of being a sitting governor (as opposed to Govs. Romney, Huntsman, Palin and Johnson) is that when something terrible happens, the governor is in the spotlight and cannot necessarily do anything about it. Much as he would like, Gov. Perry won't be able to stop the wildfires, and he will have to accept FEMA assistance and it will cost his state government a lot of money and lost jobs. It will also mean that he has to either let go of his national aspirations for a time, or leave his state unattended. No Jo might notice that Gov. Chris Christie was also pretty subdued by the floods that were not something he could control.

Right Feisty, he's good with the one liners in the slap on the back cowboy world, but when his feet are put to the fire, he folds like a cheap suit.

However, at this stage he will have to debate if he wants the nomination and then if he is successful there, which I doubt, he will be in the big leagues. Then we can really see what he's made of and if there is anything more to him than a good hair do.

It's at this very point that I might ask why God hates Texas so much, but that would be beneath my dignity, wouldn't it?

Bevy: Spanky - the ignore you button is on

Pity.

Can someone on the tech team of First Read tell us what the buffer size is for each individuals "Ignore" list? You got to figure the Liberal posters here have gone over the limit by adding every one they disagree with to that list. So maybe the list size is 100, or maybe 200?

How many did you put on the list before it kicked back an error for you Bev?

Uh, Bev. dear, like with Feisty, it would appear that the word "ignore" does not mean what you think it means.

And kate - it actually will help him. This is about leadership. Obama has failed, and the other candidates are all yapping about their ability to lead.

Yet Perry is out there actually leading right now. See he, unlike Obama or the other candidates has been a leader for many years.

It really is to his benefit. Funny thing is it's precisely the Feistys of the world that just do not get that, cause they have no idea what a CEO is or does.

You think Feisty has ever been in an executive? Leader?

Of course not.

AM: but that would be beneath my dignity, wouldn't it?

Don't think anything can get that low Annie.

Then we can really see what he's made of and if there is anything more to him than a good hair do

Afterwards, Slick Rick & Willard can go out for a beer & swap styling tips! ;o)

Not sure about asking this question here at Obama World (First Read)...but, hey...that only makes it MORE fun:

Has President Obama really been shown less respect, overall, than President George W. Bush was shown? (Do any of you guys actually remember what you said about Dubya?)

Or...

How about President Clinton?

"Cause I'm just not seeing it.

Whether you preferred one over the other...

Both of those guys took an awful lot of "incoming".

Especially if you consider an impeachment disrespectful.

Most of you are really just whining, aren't you?

Rick Perry refused to debate Bill White D during the campaign. He did however debate Kay Bailey Hutchinson and some Tea Party candidate during the primary. Let me tell you he is not a polished debater. Hutchinson crushed him. I have heard him debate he is fuzzy on details, numbers and ideas. He is about the sound bites, swarmy statements, swagger and a lack of details on what he would do. After the first presidential debate he participates in I don't think conservatives will see him as the second coming of Reagan.

Concerning him going to Texas in lieu of the recent debate, it is proper for him to help provide state services and help coordinate if required with municipalities in the fires way. By the way, Austin's outlying areas as well as Possum Lake outside of Fort Worth (funny sounding name, I know) has been beseiged by wild fires again. I know some people who work in central office that are affected and have had to abandon their homes.

FRH - Get back to me when Slick Rick is on the front line with a hose will ya?

Just as with the hurricane, real life, real conditions and real people are affected. It is not worth throwing out political cracks in times like these.

"Hey NOJO - isn't funny in a really sad way that neither Job1 or Feisty understand that Perry isn't "ducking" anything. In fact he is doing his job - he's the executive of Texas."

So....Will Perry be manning an axe, a fire hose, or an extinguisher? Driving the fire truck? Seems to me these fires have been raging for weeks, if not months now. Where was he then? Making shady deals for 'nookaler' waste burial?

"One of the downsides of being a sitting governor (as opposed to Govs. Romney, Huntsman, Palin and Johnson) is that when something terrible happens, the governor is in the spotlight and cannot necessarily do anything about it.."

He could..............................quit.

It's a funny thing, Kate. . .

I name very particular issues- like the fact that billions of taxpayer dollars got funneled to companies headed- or heavily invested in- by Obama donors- which have either relocated to China, gone bankrupt, or both. . .

That Obama is asking Congress to approve three trade agreements he has not yet bothered to submit. . .

And you have nothing to say, but to direct a nasty comment to me for saying it.

It's kind of a pattern with you.

Sad.

So, the problem is, you don't want to know these things?

Ooooh, dob...

"...sitting governor..."

Sitting President, maybe?

Applying that standard up the food chain...

We'd be looking at Joe Biden vs the GOP nominee in 2012.

Naw...

I'm sure you didn't mean that to be a "big picture" analogy.

Too bad.

Time to think outside the box, dob.

An American Tragedy

Beverly, thanks for the article. I hadn't seen it.

The problem we are facing is that our media is just as arrogant as anyone else. They don't care. They are full of themselves. All.of.them.

How many people I have met in the course of the last 6 or so months who have said they are tired of OPINIONS - that all they want is the news. It's astounding really.

I suggest you turn away from cable. Turn away from talk radio.

The Republicans and their supporters (which includes most of the media) are not worth your time. They aren't doing real journalism any longer.

There is voting irregulatory going on, which is anti-democratic; there are the Koch Brothers who are trying to turn away every regulation that protects you and me and our children.

There are problems with the unions. The people who actually work for a living. The Republicans want to get rid of them, so they can just hire cheap labor.

There is a United States Government who does nothing, all because of a Democrat in the White House.

And you know what's sad - people still aren't putting two and two together.

It is the blogs who have to do the work these millionaire dollar salaries in the media aren't doing.

Journalists were supposed to stand up and speak for us. They were supposed to stand up against the racism against our first African American President. They don't. They don't stand up for anyone any longer. They're now "corporate". Which as you know, is where you can't trust anyone.

And that is the tragedy here. It's all happening right under the noses of the United States media, which used to be the best in the world.

No more.

Has Obama really been shown more disrespect...

Mixed Bag - For his offense, I think that as far as the comedians and general public is considered what was done to Bill Clinton was a very personal, salacious attack. In that way there is no comparison.

However, as far as what has been done publicly to Obama for political reasons by the opposition is shameful. I see a disrespect that I have never seen before. His faith is questioned, his allegiance to American, his patriotism is questioned even his citizenship is argued.

Great job highlighting the point Drive By:

So....Will Perry be manning an axe, a fire hose, or an extinguisher? Driving the fire truck? Seems to me these fires have been raging for weeks, if not months now. Where was he then? Making shady deals for 'nookaler' waste burial?

Spoken like someone who has never been the boss. Awww, just yanking you chain Drive By - I know that CEO is number one on your C.V.

No Way Mixed - I assure you Drive By was not commenting on the big picture [as the analogy clearly passed him by] but rather was a swipe at Palin, who of course is not running.

Just good old Palin deffaingment syndrome for our boy Drive By.

Cause man, if he was trying to highlight the "big" picture, he nailed it.

"The Republicans and their supporters (which includes most of the media)..."

Uh-oh, Pat.

Your condition is deteriorating.

Everyone knows that the Political Director of NBC News and the NBC News White House correspondent, Chuck Todd, is a right-wing extremist.

That much is a given...here at the comments section of First Read, anyway.

But, really..."most of the media" agrees with that maniac Todd?

I'm sorry, Pat.

"Grassy knoll"?

I MIGHT be able to buy it...

But THAT?

No way, Pat.

NO way.

DBO - Perry, he should just quit.

No Jo - Obama, he should just quit.

Looks like it's time to go home for the day.

Mark-

If you don't already know, I enjoy your posts, but I also respect your opinion.

So...

I'll simply rebut.

President Clinton was impeached...and, this discussion isn't about the merits of that, one way or the other.

The topic on the table was "respect for our President".

President Clinton, President Bush, or President Obama.

Correcting a bit for the general escalation in the nastiness of U.S. politics, generally, over that span...

Obama supporters are whining.

A lot.

Think Progress: Romney Today.

To accompany his jobs speech in Nevada this afternoon, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (R) released a packet that laid out his plans. On page 16 of the packet is a chart highlighting statistics from past economic recoveries and is presumably supposed to show how poor Obama’s record compares to past presidents. The chart, however, calls the period of time from 2007-2009 the “Obama recovery,” blaming him for the poor job numbers over that three-year period. As Romney surely knows, however, George W. bush was serving as president in 2007 and 2008, and Obama did not take office until January 2009.

___________________________________________________

Typical Republican idiot.

George Washington was hung in effigy in front of his personal residence by protesters

Abraham Lincoln was perhaps the most vilified President in our history while in office...by the NORTH!

Criticism goes with the job title, and no President has gone unscathed. This President has endured his share of criticism, no more, no less. I am sure If you asked his two most recent predecessors, they would argue that they endured as much, if not more.

All totally true dangerfield.

But some of us are simple people. If a tree falls in the woods and I don't hear it.....

Besides everyone knows there was no First Read back then.

Pat-

I'm no Mitt fan,but did you actually READ or look at the link you posted? 'cause I did...you probably should have...

http://mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2011/09/president-obamas-failure

Uh, Pat...

So...

Everyone should vote for Mitt Romney, right?

Still not sure about that, Pat.

Good thing is...we all have more than a year to think about it.

Thanks for keeping an open mind, though...

All the squealing today from the right wing nuts about Hoffa's comment, I wonder what they have to say about this doozy!

"We have Saddam Hussein," declared billionaire industrialist Charles Koch, apparently referring to President Barack Obama as he welcomed hundreds of wealthy guests to the latest of the secret fundraising and strategy seminars he and his brother host twice a year. The 2012 elections, he warned, will be "the mother of all wars."

Charles Koch would probably not publicly compare the president of the United States to a murderous dictator. (As a general rule, he and his brother don't do much politicking or speechifying in public at all.) But Mother Jones has obtained exclusive audio recordings from the Koch seminar, a private event that took place in June at a resort near Vail, Colorado

http://motherjones.com/

You want a war?

You better be careful what you wish for!

John Birch needs a below neck haircut.

We know Richard - "let's kill those sons of bitches."

Yep, we got it.

Civility, it's what's for dinner.

So when is Gabby coming back to congress. I wonder what she felt when she heard the esteemed Mr. Hoffa.

And how ironic that it's Hoffa spouting off a line like that. How old was he when his dad got taken out?

But some of us are simple people. If a tree falls in the woods and I don't hear it.....

Then you have one hand clapping.

Glad to see the Zen in you, Spanky.

Really.

Pat,

dangerfield was right, you should go back and read the link.

No joe: " Actually, the best thing he ( Obama) could do was announce that he's resigning. Or, at the least, not running for reelection."

I would have respect for Obama if he did that. It would make him a PATRIOT.

Leona please!

You will never respect Obama. He is already a Patriot, which you are not.

Paul, A patriot does whats right for the country, NOT the Unions only.

Unions are a part of democratic processes and representation. They are good for the middle class of any country.

PAUL, I work in the private sector. We do NOT get bail outs or pensions like the UNIONS do. I resent the fact that if there are union bail outs and greater pension contracts, that money comes from people like ME ( the taxpayer).

Goldman Sachs, AIG, and the other investment banks are certainly part of the "private" sector. They all got bailouts from the taxpayer and the Federal Reserve Bank; zero interest loans amounting to $4 TTTrillion , of which they have returned only $2 TTTrillion. TARP has been repaid. The entire private sector was bailed out by the saving of the financial system. Stop kidding yourself.

Paul, and just WHO decided to bail out these banks? OH WAIT, wasn't is your favorite President, Obama?

TARP was begun by Paulson and Bush. Obama can't tell the Federal Reserve what to do or not do.

Bob: The idea is the President will "go big" and come up with a huge stimulus plan , that he knows will not pass Congress?

That seems to be Obama’s plan. Politics over finding a solution.

Bob: Understandably Obama does need to run on something, so he will try to be Harry Truman redux running against Congress.

But half of Congress is controlled by his own party. One thing you won’t see is Harry Reid putting any bill that supports Obama’s plans before the Senate. That would mean all the Democratic Senators would be forced to vote for Obama’s plan, and run on that vote next year. The Democrats are already going to lose the Senate, they’ll lose it by a lot more if they vote for Obama’s plan.

Bob: This is seen as brilliant politics, going further Left , for an electorate sick of Big Government failures?

Yeah, that about sums it up. Here’s what Obama will be running on if he “Goes Big” – “I already spent $4 trillion in deficit spending, and still there are no jobs, so vote for me and my party so I can do it again.” Not exactly winning politics.

Bob: Didn’t the liberals just savage the Republicans for "going big" in trying to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment? The fact everyone knew it wouldn’t pass the Senate was derided as "playing politics" and "wasting time".

Don’t worry, the newsies will cover for the Obama and the Democrats. They’ll be singing the praises of Obama’s plan, calling it“Bold and Innovative” when it’s nothing more than more Keynesian economics.

JAS is that the only thing you have in your vocabulary "Keynesian", have you ever been there, do you know a lot about economics, never seen your name with a college behind it. Published any papers on the subject, you do not even know what is in his speach only what is being hinted at. Like they say you do not even have to see it to be against it. This is what we need in this country, more open minds, wide open empty spaces. At least wait until you hear it then tear it down

TtS: Published any papers on the subject, you do not even know what is in his speach only what is being hinted at.

I know how to spell "speech".

Might be time for you to ditch your "Hooked on Phonics" tapes.

Bob, its not that the republicans want a balanced budget is HOW they want to balance it. You try to balance any more on the workers back and they may kick you in the teeth which I am waiting for. MCWSB live only 39.95 on the WWF channel.

TIS,

Are you saying that "Keynesian" is a place? I'm thinking you think this because you asked if JoAnna has ever been there.



If balancing means, stop spending, than I'm all for it. Let me ask you a simple question, when the government spends all this money it doesn't have, who do you think pays for it? Would you like a hint? The workers. So why are you angry at the people that want to stop the spending? I'm sick of paying to see my money get wasted!!

JAS, is that the best you can do is touch on spelling. Rocks and glass houses do not go together, but if that the best you got so be it. Got what I expected the only thing small minded people can do "Attack" like a one trick pony. At least we know what you will do next.... attack

Paul: Are you saying that "Keynesian" is a place? I'm thinking you think this because you asked if JoAnna has ever been there.

Slow down Paul. TtS is still working out this "speach" thing. Let's work through one fumble at a time, we don't want to overload her/him.

TtS: is that the best you can do is touch on spelling.

So lets talk about this "Keynesian" thing of yours TtS. Is that just south of Ethiopia?

Bob188... from what I have read, the President's plan includes some of the very things that the Chamber of Commerce and the Republican golden boy, Marco Rubio, have said are needed, specifically improvement to the nation's infrastructure. Now, I realize that this will undoubtedbly create jobs, which would reduce unemployment and doing so would end the TeaPublican plan to destroy American, but we all have to make some sacrifice, right ?

Paul, stay in Florida you are safe there. JAS is referring to Kenya D.A. As for who is going to pay for it, how about we equalize the tax structure so the mega rich and corporations start paying at least the rate you do in taxes, sound fair. Also putting more people back to work means more income taxes paid which pays for the jobs. Really it is simple math the more people paying income tax means more money in the coffer, and yes we still need to control spending but we can do both at the same time not everyone has your limitations. So to answer your question Yes the worker pays for it once he has a job and so will his boss for a change. Like you I am tired of wasting money as well. Lets stop paying congress and the senate until they decide to start doing their jobs. I have no doubt if you did your job as they do theirs, vacation every third week, only say no, you would be unemployed and not paying taxes. Think a little further than the end of your $@%#.

Bob-1887910

The idea is the President will "go big" and come up with a huge stimulus plan , that he knows will not pass Congress?

But, it'll pass the electorate

http://i.imgur.com/mjbaU.jpg

So lets talk about this "Keynesian" thing of yours TtS. Is that just south of Ethiopia?

Lady sniff, if it fits your narrative it does.

Gees, why not Bob? The Teapublicans passed the Paul Ryan Hood budget privatizing Medicare to give to the rich, and the balanced budget amendment, basically taxation without representation with spending cuts so severe and zero in revenue as to cause collapse of our nation as we know it -- Both so far to the right and so draconian as to be treasonous. But they LOVE lay claim to how successful they were in passing this symbolic chicken crap knowing full well it could never become law.

Bob, JS1, Paul, njnb, et all -- It must suck to be you. I'd rather drink ferret urine than live in your American Nighmare world view. So how about you and the rest of your Echo Chamber do a count on how many real, viable solutions are offered during the Teapublican debate on Wednesday versus the president's speech on Thursday.

Paul-Florida

If balancing means, stop spending, than I'm all for it. Let me ask you a simple question, when the government spends all this money it doesn't have, who do you think pays for it? Would you like a hint? The workers. So why are you angry at the people that want to stop the spending? I'm sick of paying to see my money get wasted!!

Paul-Florida I have a better idea why don they just GTHOH? Then they can forget about spending. Hell, they don't like America anyhow.

JAS, not my thing its in all your post, still not seeing anything to back up your experience in economics, like basic math. Just attack attack. boring. Same bat channel same bat time, tick tick tick come on you have to have something else, you can take me I am only a lefty really.

TtS:, not my thing its in all your post, still not seeing anything to back up your experience in economics, like basic math.

Here's some basic math for you TtS. $4 trillion in Obama's deficit spending in 2.5 years, and no jobs. And you want to do the same thing again.

TtS: Just attack attack. boring. Same bat channel same bat time, tick tick tick

Dude, you need some serious rehab.

TP: Bob, JS1, Paul, njnb, et all -- It must suck to be you. I'd rather drink ferret urine than live in your American Nighmare . . .

Ferret urine is the #1 drink at the DDI. Served on the rocks.

Either you guys are all doing some kind of comedy routine or there is some serious cognitive issues going on.

I'm just not sure which is worse - a Kenyan with a "speach" impediment, or a" Keynesian" with math issues.

No wait, I know - its the USA producing ZERO jobs last month.

Now let's resume "killing them Tea Party sons of a bitches."

Libbie power, activate.

JAS, oh this is fun. 2010 Republicans run on creating jobs jobs jobs. As you said NO JOBS. So no I do not want the same republican bull @!$%# again lie lie lie. We need jobs not snow jobs from anyone. So what have you done to create jobs beside attack, bitch and lie. How about any ideas how to create jobs, no I did not think so. Keep attacking its entertaining.

Why would the workers be angry at all that spending on workers like unemployment insurance, and middle class programs they pay into like Social Security? And why would the workers be angry at union-busting and abolishing the minimum wage and off-shoring of American jobs?

I mean, we certainly can't expect shared sacrifice by asking the rich and corporations sitting on piles of cash to pay their damn taxes. Sure, Supply and Demean is great economics -- The average CEO now makes 815 times more than the average worker -- no problem there. Just think, if we taxed the poor on everything they have, we could raise the same amount of revenue we lose from capital gains tax loopholes from the top 25 hedge fund managers alone -- no problem there.

Really, Dude, seriously?

Bev,

I don't know what GTHOH means and your statement is a bit confusing.

TIS,

What do you mean I'm safe? Are you saying it's dangerious where you're at? I travel all over the place, I was just in Seattle last week.

I think if you have the CEO of GE pay their taxes then you would have an agruement, but I believe he's Obama's buddy if I'm not mistaking.

Flat tax, everyone pays!

TtS: 2010 Republicans run on creating jobs jobs jobs. As you said NO JOBS. So no I do not want the same republican bull @!$%# again lie lie lie. We need jobs not snow jobs from anyone. So what have you done to create jobs beside attack, bitch and lie. How about any ideas how to create jobs, no I did not think so. Keep attacking its entertaining.

Yes, please go on. There are several talking points you haven't brought up yet (hint: Koch brothers).

TP,

Now why would it suck to be me? Is it because I don't believe in your views or is it that I might be correct in a way that it pisses you off and you have to go negitive?

Don't hate player, it consumes too much energy.

Spanky, glad to see you up and around again. I know you have said you are not a republican, tea party or wing nut. I do not see anyone creating jobs and you can not create them by complaining about no jobs. So Spanky how do you create jobs, what is your idea to create jobs, what is anyones idea to create jobs. I still do not see jobs being created by anyone, Left, Right or Lunatic fringe. You and JAS can tell us we don't have them now tell us how to get them. I am sure there are a lot of out of work people who are just waiting to here both of you come up with something, anything, hay JAS how about hooking. At least that would be productive...... oh, no payroll tax, just a thought.

TP: I mean, we certainly can't expect shared sacrifice by asking the rich and corporations sitting on piles of cash to pay their damn taxes. Sure, Supply and Demean is great economics -- The average CEO now makes 815 times more than the average worker -

But Obama will fix that Thursday night, right?

Paul-Florida: that I might be correct in a way that it pisses you off and you have to go negitive?

Do not say p*sses to someone that willingly drinks ferret urine.

So Buffet's company owes $4 billion in back taxes, yet here he is calling for increases in taxes.

Too funny.

Sorry TruePatriot - but what other people choose to do with their "piles of cash" is none of your concern. The issues dies the second we pay our taxes.

And again - you really ought to look up who it is who wrote and contrlos the tax code. I know you will be very amused.

Now YOU could go out there and russle up a "pile of cash" of you own, or some of those fine "average workers" could man up and become CEOs.

Me, I didn't like working for others. I was just no damn good at it. So guess what? I opened up my own shop. I have been growing it and doing my best to amass as many of the lovely "piles of cash" as I possibly can.

Simple solution - flat tax. Too bad the politicians will never give up all that control.

Why is that TruePatriot? Don't dems love all the people, and especially the poor?

TIS? I most definitely am a republican, I love the tEA pARTY AND HOW IT'S IDEAS ABOUT TAXES RULE THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, and I sure as hell am a wing nut.

Tis - I created a business. I employ 8 and 1/2 people. I am in the process of hiring another, and more importantly I think that one of my guys is headed out on his own, which makes me super proud.

I produce services, which I "sell." When business is good I hire. I want to hire as many people as I can in a profitable manner. It's in my best interest to hire. But I also have to carefully manage costs. Making payroll is the most important thing, and it can be hard.

Bottom line Tis - the GOV is not the answer, and it cannot provide any long term solutions. It gets money from only 3 sources, all of the bad for us.

[caps cause shift locked inadvertantly, too lazy to fix.]

"Ferret urine is the #1 drink at the DDI. Served on the rocks."

Wow.

Simply........wow.

Spanky, OK I had my tongue way in my cheek when I said you were not rep, wing nut or looney toon. I am curious who the 1/2 is you employ and if the economy is so bad how can you hire and no one else. In a perfect world the Government would not be the answer but we do not live in a perfect world. We have what we have and that will not change anytime soon. Right now the Government is the only solution and it only needs to be short time, once you push a ball over the edge to start it rolling you do not need to keep pushing. I agree a flat tax is the way to go and has been for sometime. No write offs, no deductions, but we do need some form of Government we have seen the results of self governing. It did not work out so well, greed got in the way. People will take advantage of others if given the chance. What would happen if you fired all the police and firemen today since they are part of the government establishment. Would crime go away, would the murders stop. We still need government to monitor and control what we are yet unable to control, ourselves. Until we step out of the cave we need a government in some form and it has to be paid for, no one is going to do it for free.

Holy sh*t..The spankster produces a service and employs 8 1/2 people..I wonder if he knows the difference between payroll and income taxes. Ya know connies seem to blur income and payroll taxes. How many of those employees are 1099'd so he can avoid paying his share of ssi and that medicare thingy for grandma. I will agree that government was the problem in creating the current recession. Our government created a regulatory environment that allowed banks to bundle home mortgages and sell them on wall street and around the world. Our government also created the environment that allowed wall street to sell insurance policies on those mortgages. Remember these "products" did not exist prior to 1990. My suggestion: 1. Pass Cram down legislation and allow BK Judges to modify home mortgages. 2. Outlaw credit default swaps as a financial product. We both know that that will never happen because of the pimps on Wall and K street and their whores in Congress.

Tis - I share a receptionist with the lawyers across the hall.

If and when "the government is the only solution" I'm cashing in and heading out. Been watching a lot of House Hunters, Caribbean lately. Looks nice.

Ah Torpedo, you want to start talking about taxes? You understand that tax information is private and in fact protected, correct? But you don't need to worry your pretty little head about my office - all employees receive W-2s. I have actually had a class or two in economics, accounting and TAX. I have also dealt directly with exempt v. non exempt status.

Fun stuff, right? So how come whenever I read your comments Torpedo the voice in my head sounds like James Cagney?

Because...."I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy, Yankee Doodle do or die. A real live nephew of my Uncle Sam; Born on the forth of July." And why spankster when I see your comments, does Alfalfa come to mind?

I'm far more partial to Darla, but Spanky in this context has nothing whatsoever to do with the Little Rascals.

So are we exempt or non-exempt? And it's been a while - which one gets overtime, and which one gets hosed?

As I recall it's the exempt that take the shaft. I think the last paycheck I ever got with overtime in it was back in the mid 1980's while working construction. All since - accounting, clerking, lawyering - no overtime pay, just the joy of doing the lord's work.

Cause that's what I call it now when my guys do it.

Spanky, holy crap being a lawyer is gods work. doomed I say we are all doomed, run for the hills, get out of the water, lock your doors, pick up the dog, get a gas mask, Oh s&*t god is a lawyer that explains everything. What do you have when a lawyer is in mud up to his ankles...... a good start. But now it is the lords work. There is nothing Godly about the legal system or its practice. It was created by man to rule over man. Spanky owners of businesses never get overtime and small business owners rarely make more than the employees unless you are in the legal system charging how much an hour to tell someone what, what may or may not happen, what you can or can not do for them. Because to understand the laws you have to go to law school to understand the double speak, yeh now I know you are a nut job, it has to be the lord's work because that what you call it. Do you walk on water too.

Paul wrote: Now why would it suck to be me?

Your question has already been answered.

Tis the Season mockingly wrote: ...doomed I say we are all doomed, run for the hills, get out of the water, lock your doors, pick up the dog, get a gas mask...

Conservatives live in fear -- fear of change, of anything different from them, science/intellectualism, etc. A great nation is only great when doing great things, looking forward not backward, when there is hope and the American Dream. Not this "we're too broke to be a great nation" crap, or worse the End Times and obsession with religious wedge issues.

DBO wrote: "Ferret urine is the #1 drink at the DDI. Served on the rocks."

Wow.

Simply........wow.

I know, what a come back. You wait, they'll copy the term later. They have no originality either. As for the punk, how long do we have to ignore him before he'll go away?

Just got a chance to watch the video with sound. Congratulations Alan, NJ for having your question picked. Great question.

I loved what Mark and Dom said about Grover Norquist vs the Industrial Military Complex. Not often you hear political journalists acknowledge the substance of the debate about taxing and spending must include defense spending. It's not all "entitlement reform."

PS I really enjoyed Meet The Press on Sunday and urge everyone to watch the video on the MTP website. Doris Kearns Goodwin's son was on, and gives an important perspective from a young man who joined the army after 9/11.

Ahh, TIS, and you were doing so well up until that last post.

Or have you found that YOUR tongue has separated from YOUR cheek?

So Todd bails from the show this am and Clizza subs in. Uh, Dom, Mark?

Why not one or both of you? Clizza is not very good.

House Hunters Spanky? Too funny, I too watch, but eyeing Costa Rica or Panama. Stay away from the islands, nice to visit, not nice to live.

the President's speech sounded like a Jobs Plan SLOW down to me ! I think MSNBC said "jobs plan SHOWDOWN" by mistake. haha

Hey Candyman, tell us how you really feel.

Nothing like intelligent debate.......

WOW

It would appear that the Left has officially gone 'round the bend............

Talk like that will continue the more and more we hear on TV about THE FAILED PRESIDENCY.

Even MSDNC used the term FAILED PRESIDENCY more than a couple times when talking about Obama this morning.

It's like I have been saying around here for a while - this is where they will be going from here on in. It's all they got.

Party of No - Obstructionists-Lock step-neo nazi- racists-

To "let's just go kill the sons of bitches."

Debate over. Sever depression will be setting in as the denial begins to fade away.

Sorry libbies - you all elected someone with zero real world experience. You now get to reap what you sewed.

And it really sucks for the rest of us.

Right now, they are on intractable and/or insoluble problems- none of which are Obama's fault.

How long until they trot out that the country is "ungovernable"? That was the trope when Carter failed, miserably.

Of course, even Carter had the sense to ship grain to the Soviet Union to keep their people from starving. Not Obama- warned that North Africa and the Middle East were in danger of political cataclysm due to food shortage, he arranged a tee time, rather than shipments of corn, wheat, and soybeans over to the region from our reserves.

The other difference? It would be impossible for me to believe Carter was dishonest. Obama, on the other hand, uses billions of tax payer dollars to pay back his big- dollar donors tenfold. Thus, the need for an "infrastructure bank". Any way you slice it, that is corruption on a large scale.

I wonder if the "No Label" democrats will be able to resurrect their party from the ashes?

You forgot Terrorist, that's a big one in my book. It's funny, I deployed 3 times (01-08) and for once the terrorist I've seen were not Americans, well maybe they were, I didn't have time to ask them. So in my life time I've gone from:

Fighting terrorist for 20 years in the Army to be called one by the Director of Homeland Security and then by the people of the United States because I don't believe the their views that I swore to defend! Sh*t, I think I just went full circle!!! F-me!!

Spanky, how are you suffering what sad story have you to tell. Are you out of work, have you lost your home, no health insurance, poor health. Just how does it suck for you, your stock portfolio has to look good right now. If you bought gold you are doing fine. Just how does it suck for the rest of you poor people. Besides don't feel sorry for just the libbies. The right has Boner and friends that is enough to gag a maggot. I think there is enough pitty for everyone.

G W Bush = Failed Presidency

Obama = Clean up Crew

The economic downturn, i.e. the current recession is terrible for all.

But what really sucks is the systemic structural debt. Our kids are doomed. See we used to have money for parks, pools, potholes. But even though revenue has gone up, costs/entitlement have blow'd up. So now there are no services and entitlements are on the way out.

And who would have thunk Rhode Island would have won the race to the bottom? Cutting current pension payments is happening now, not in Cali ot Ill., but in tiny little blue RI.

And look at our precious Amy, she of the Trapper Keeper love. God bless you Amy, someone has to keep the love alive.

I know it must really piss you off that the whole world seems to be turning against your boyfriend.

Amy - would you agree that someone who has never saved for retirement, has no supplemental insurance, and generally has no plan at all is in fact a "me firster?"

Paul-Florida

Stop it.

Amy- the phone is ringing again.

Yeah, Spanky, I'm just one of those "little people" no one cares about, a single woman in a pink collar job (sometimes two), who has worked in day care, taken care of disabled people, worked in a call center for a major catalog company, waitressed and cleaned houses. I'm up to my neck in student loans for a teaching degree I can't use, and I'm nobody special, certainly not as important as a hedge fund manager or the CEO of a company. But thanks for reading this. At least you care.

PF, its 10 years for terrorist, not 20 I know time can fly and you have my graditude for serving and no one should be calling you a terrorist unless you have done something we don't know about? Kidding, Its only been since 911 that we have officially gone after terrorist, before that is was Bosnia. Question why would the Director of Homeland Security call you a terrrorist as you indicated.

Amy - I know you don't believe me, but I do care.

I really do like you. And Jody and Navy and BEV, and yes, even Feisty. You all are just easy examples to use to highlight certain points.

None of this is personal. And I am aware that I tend to come across as a condescending POS. Kinda been this way my whole life. And rest assured Ms. Spanky busts me everyday for it.

And for some reason I thought you were married.

Also the hedge fund managers and CEO are no better of worse than anyone else. And while they make more money, that isn't always a good thing. Ms. Spanky is a Family law lawyer - she has deal with them and their messed up lives in divorce and custody issues. And man, does it get ugly and nasty.

Appreciate the small stuff. It's all we really got anyway.

In any event I do wish the best for you.

Well, Spanky I have a family law lawyer in my family too, so I know what you mean rich people divorcing - nasty!

( Wouldn't it be funny if we were related. Plenty of Tea Party types in my family. Makes Thanksgiving a tad uncomfortable.)

Not only that Amy - but obviously I can never, ever divorce Ms. Spanky.

She'd crush me in the divorce.

And rest assured there are several libbies in my family - it's what makes family so fun and sucky, all at the same time.

TIS,

Be glad to answer your questions:

Well I served in the Army for 20 years. I went to Bosnia in 97 and guess what they had there? Terrorist camp, told to stay away from them, let them be, if you don't mess with them they won't mess with you kind of thing.

Our fine lady Janet Napolitano stated:

"the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks"

"Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists,” it says. “DHS/I&A is concerned that right-wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize veterans in order to boost their violent capacities"

See TIS, what I did in the military I also did in the civilian world. Before 9/11 and shortly after, many State and Local law enforcements didn't have bomb squads and used us. So if someone planted an IED in the states we took care of it, now we called this terrorism, domestic type. 1993 NYC was a good example, 1995 OKC is a good one too, the unibomber is a classic. This whole terrorism thing wasn't big "New" until 9/11 for most folks.

Paul - Florida

I'm confused by your comment. McVeigh and Nichols met in the military, were right-wing extremists and killed 168 people including 19 children. And Janet Napitano was warning about domestic terorists with military backgrounds. I don't get your point.

Amy: "G W Bush = Failed Presidency Obama = Clean up Crew"

My version:

4 More for Freeloaders President = Obama

Hope and Change ( this time for REAL) = GOP

I for one, like the new & improved Grump! ;o)

I am too old to be "New and Improved", that would be false advertising, but I guess you are never too old to improve. I just wish I new why all of a sudden since Friday afternoon I could not do anything except read the posts on first read, I could not expand any of the collasped posts, vote on a post, or send my own posts. I can't seem to get any tech help from anybody on Newsvine's or my end so I fixed it myself by becoming Forrest Grump 2.0. I just wanted to wish everybody a happy Labor Day friday afternoon going into the weekend but couldn't, sorry I'm late.

That's OK Forrest. Monday was real slow on the vine. Didn't have any of the usual stuff from Bob-188, Fiesty, Bev, Spanky, either Paul, No Jo, or any of the usual suspects. Those who did post had some good points, but usually not as articulate as yours. Good to have you back, with whatever numbers you need to follow your name. Hope you had a good weekend.

I will be forever curious as to what happened to my account. I had a great weekend and thank you for the compliment, you are too kind. Got run now, got to go to work for a spell tonight, maybe I'll see ya later if your up late.

Probably eliminated as part of the Teapublican plan to stifle thought and free expression of ideas...LOL :)

Please - no more than red meat for the base - no worse than Beck or Limbaugh, the only difference is those two actually mean it...

@Mav so you are saying Hoffa is as crazy as Beck? My father belonged to the UAW for 40 years and believe me a lot of union guys are thugs.......

My how the story has grown, now it is up to mass murder.

You just need to hear the whole sentence, it was about taking out country back. By eliminating the end of the sentence, it changed the whole meaning of what he was saying. Republicans can never pass up a good lie.

Faux does censored news so well.

So important that everyone hate unions. Important when you are killing America, you need to break the backbone first. Look at Wisconsin, they stood up to the republicans, now is the time to vilify unions. Can't have none of the people standing up for their rights.

Why would thugs work for 40 years at a car plant ksw#'s. How about I say some wall street bankers steal, most wall street bankers are republican, a lot of republicans are thieves. You like how that logic works. Thugs don't show up for work day in a day out on an assembly line for 40 years, teachers, nurses, bricklayers, plumbers are not thugs, nor or they in cahoots or controlled by thugs. Can you find some bad apples, sure always but then why don't you say a lot of clergymen are child molesters, or a lot of gun owners are domestic terrorists. I will say one thing whatever you think of the UAW your father was paid well for his hard work, and probably has heath care coverage and a retirement plan so that he does not have to depend on government programs and charity in his old age, so those "thugs" may have taken better care of his interests than say Paul Ryan would.

Back up what? They were right - they should get voted out of office. By the way, that's what they actually met. How is that when the right speaks "metaphorically" its okay, but the left does it its blasphemy?

Mav --- that's typical of a liberal....see bad behavior and point to other bad behavior to excuse it. I see it time and time again on these boards.

And by the way if instead of the word "tea party" someone said "obama" is an SOB and should be "taken out". the secret service would be at their door.

Rob in ma, That goes with the job title not the person D.A. and you wonder why the libbies think so little of you.

paul.... economics 101... demand. look it up. even the high school version will tell you the regulations and taxes have NOTHING to do with the lack of hiring, its the lack of DEMAND> The only thing which will turn the country's economy around is to increase DEMAND.

Union Baby, and look at the tax rates in the 1960's.... from 20% up to 90%! Yup, those high tax rates sure did hurt. Its time we abrogate all of the "free" trade agreements and get back to America first. Tax the heck out of any products which could be made here (or are being made here) so that they are subject to the same regulations as US Products. No more lead painted childrens toys. No more poisoned food products. Inspect everything and charge fees to have inspections. Put people to work inspecting products entering the country, and charge for the inspections.

We could call it "Bring your kid to work and leave them there day", count me in.

heaven forbid the TeaPublicans gain control of the entire US Government. The Teapublicans only agenda then will be how quickly can they eliminate the middle class and kill off the poor.

My only question then will be, what will you do when there is no one left to kill.

JEP, been reading the news, no one is in love with the right either so I doubt it will be jobs jobs jobs 2010 again. Since we still have no jobs, that was a right promise remember. OOPS!

Oh please. Australia has Universal Heathcare. Europe has Universal Healthcare. Japan has Universal Healthcare. The United States is alone among the first world countries without universal health insurance. We don't have coverage for everyone but we DO have a Republican Party protecting the tax loopholes of oil companies EVERY DAY.

Connection?

"Golden Republican Seal Of Approval"

What exactly does this bit of ridiculous mean? Are you advocating single party dictatorships? Are you saying that your approval is more legitimate than mine? That your values are the only ones that are important? The absolute arrogance of that dribble is disgusting.

Should it not actually say "American Peoples Seal of Approval". We're all parts of the same whole.

Amy,

please explain, if you would, the talking point;

"tax loopholes of oil companies'

Oil companies are a business and have the same ability to take deductions as other businesses. No more, no less. Where are these loopholes? I support closing them, surely. Or is is just the usual class envy of hate , and soak, the rich?

More to the point, if you dont want "tax loopholes" i.e., special favors found in the thousands of pages of the IRS code, then why dont you support a simplified flat tax? Dump the corrupt IRS Code! All evil 'oil companies" would pay the same as any other business.

The reason liberals wont support a flat tax is that they SUPPORT using the tax code to bribe their friends and punish their perceived enemies. They are all about government power.

bob, here's one example.

From NJ.com-

Oil production is among the most heavily subsidized businesses in America, with breaks available at virtually every stage of the exploration and extraction process.

According to a report by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, and covered in the New York Times (July 4, 2010), capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry.

As to your "flat tax" idea the, problem is and has been proven many times to be a severely regressive tax that places an unfair load on those at the bottom of the wage scale in this country. Tax reform is without a doubt needed but to try to oversimplify a very complex issue is at best disingenuous.

what vwterry said

Great now tell us who wrote that provision vweterry.

See the government decided a long time ago it likes capital investment so the tax code is replete with them.

But you got to get your terms right - this is not subsidizing. Money is not going from the government to the oil companies. Just less oil co. money in the form of taxes goes to the gov. - because that what the government want[ed] to happen.

You think the oil companies write the laws? Nope. Gov. picks winners and losers everyday, and it's really, really bad at it.

Kinda like the fat "subsidy" I got when I bought my SUV. I bet you didn't get a giant tax break when you bought your last car. Like I said - winners and losers, and brother it seems like the government likes me a lot more than it like you.

Subsidizes is what happens in the green industries. Gov. money is given directly to one or another company - like the super low interest loans to Solydra (?)

Flat tax is the only way to fix what is a broken tax code.

Flat tax is the only way to fix what is a broken tax code.

A flat tax is bogus.

Graduated, Spanky.

Catching the Zen?

Yes, you are.

The "evil oil" taxbreak argument is silly. Disingenuous. And usually, when argued by the enemies of "evil oil" just plain wrong.

Just once I would like one of them to start their argument with "I know Exxon paid X amount of dollars but they should have paid (this) amount."

But they can't. It's not their fault they can't. It has everything to do with the factual information available.

One thing is seems certain. When the oil industry is no longer given incentives, the cost of fuel (and much more) will rise. Another unfair "tax" on the poorest.

Yay lefties.

Why should I be responsible for answering a question that was not asked. boob wanted to know what special treatment the oil industry was receiving and I showed him at least 1 example. It is not relevant how it came about, just the fact that it is.

If you want to learn the origins of the provision I'm sure you can find the details on your own.

[Why should I be responsible for answering a question that was not asked.]

Spanky is all questions, and no answers...it's just easier for him that way...no accountability...

Spanky...always striving for mediocrity...

Mr. Parent, I see you have the same thought I do: the wealthiest 1% conspiring to block the re-election of a Democratic President because he threatens to raise their taxes. That's why they're sitting on their burgeoning profits. Kind of like how the Iranians wouldn't release the hostages until Carter left office.

President "W" was "A Uniter, not a divider"

Sen. Barack Obama said the country needs to 'fundamentally change how Washington works.

Did President Bush unite the country?

Has President Obama "Fundamentally changed how Washington works"?

The answers are pretty obvious...

Dangerfield, you still get no respect, W was a Uniter, Did Bush unite the country, hell no! he and chaney did everything they could to divide it and successfully. Has President Obama changed Washington not likely, one man can not change a corrupt organization no matter how much he may want too. Relality hit him as well. And before anyone gets a chance Yes one or two men can make a corrupt system more corrupt since they will have all the help they need.

No Amy in Portland,

First of all, I was refering to all the small businessmen in America, not the wealthiest 1%.

While it's true that companies are sitting on their resources and playing a waiting game, it is really the uncertainty that is making them cautious. Are they going to be taxed more?? What about more expensive energy taxes (cap and trade)?? More expensive regulations coming?? Foreign competition picking up?? All enough to make them take a wait and see attitude.

There first order of business is to stay in business. To weather the storm. And if that storm happens to be this administration, they may well just wait till after the 2012 election to see what course of action they want to take.

So, when I state that, after the current President is shown the door, the hiring will start, I wasn't joking.

They have no extra business Joseph, no extra customers to service or supply, if they did they would hire plain and simple I never knew of a businessman that would turn down a buck today because he did not know what the taxes on that buck would be next year, it is ridiculous. The only thing they are uncertain about is will enough customers walk in the door to keep them in business. Nobody turns customers away because they don't have the employees to handle those customers because they don't want to hire until they know what the tax rate of the future will be. Pretty silly stuff Joseph. Business hires when they need the extra people to meet their customers demand and they lay off when they have more employees than necessary to meet that demand, manpower has nothing to do with taxes. What do taxes have to do with how many checkout clerks you need on Saturday before people get tired of waiting in line and walk out? What do taxes have to do with how many bricklayers it will take to build a particular structure. Customers, contracts, orders placed, the demand in short determines hiring, not taxes. One thing that is certain for business is that if you don't have sales you don't need any help and you won't owe any taxes.

I agree with Forrest. I've heard conservatives like Maria Bartiroma and Paul Gigot makes this argument that corporations won't hire because they are "uncertain" about taxes, and it doesn't ring true to me.

I used to work for catalog company L.L.Bean, and they would hire a ton of people in the fall to handle the back-to-school, Christmas rush, then lay us off by the end of December. Eventually I worked up to year round employment, but after 9/11, when business tanked, I was laid off. I bet I could walk in there today and get a job, no hard feelings, they'd say. Businesses have no compunction about hiring and laying off people, and a business that size could find a way to make a profit off having to give part-timers health insurance, I guarentee it; L.L. Bean really knows how to manage it's work force. (Heck, they sold us returned, damaged goods and convinced us it was a "benefit." Employees were a big part of the customer base.)

I owe my soul to the company store, 16 tons and what do you get? Did they pay you in LL Bean script, they would if they could, I think.

What's the difference? A Federal Reserve Note is nothing more than company script to the privately held Federal Reserve Bank. We are all debt slaves to the IMF, Central Rothschild Banks, and the NWO. Our fiat currency has become our undoing. And we had no say over the matter.

The dollar is really only worth 38 cents, but I will give you 50 cents for every single one you can get your hands on.

Cute..............................but you're not helping me make my point. Your acceptance of the debt-slave mentality; make whatever you can by whatever means you can, ignores the reality that a fiat currency only has value because it is th only form of payment accepted by the government which prints it. It is an instrument based upon debt alone and has no other value.

I was just having a little fun Paul, and my offer still stands. I understand what your are saying, but teenagers can't count my change back so how they going to deal with assaying silver and gold.

Hey thetotas

I hope those days are not gone forever, but I can tell you I am usually a very optimistic person, and I would say we are in danger that maybe they are gone, or that something so terrible would have to happen to bring them back, you would not even want to imagine it. Look at this blog and how we sometimes treat each other, it is not so easy to see it as us verse them at every level when you work everyday with all different kinds of people, face to face, day in day out, you realize that we all are pretty much the same, we worry about the same things, have the same dreams, and want the same things for our wives and kids. We are very polarized in our politics, to the point where compromise is a bad word, but nobody is leaving, we are all here to stay, so we better figure out how to get along and work together better than this or all will suffer. The shame is that the young people who don't even vote, are paying the price, their immediate future looks bleak, I feel ashamed, I hate to think of it because we owe them more than this, we had better, and we should have delivered better than this to them. We can do better and we must, shame on us if we don't, all of us. I was at Children's hospital last week and I was thinking how I get all wound up about politics sometimes, but it occurred to me that if you asked any kid or his parents in that hospital if they are republicans or democrats, or asked them if they are liberal or conservative, they would look at you like you are the stupidest bastard they ever seen. I think a lot of people are starting to look at Congress just like that.

I don't agree, Richard. If G.W.Bush could win re-election, arguably one of the worst Presidents in modern times, than President Obama, under whose watch Osama bin Laden was fiinally killed, and who saved us from a Depression following the financial crisis, deserves a second term, this time with a Democratic House in 2012.

Very astute observation Richard. He doesn't stand a chance. He may or may not be such a bad guy but the problem for the Democratic Party is not one man but philosophy.

Think Hillary will challenge? Not that she'll win. Obama is doomed for a single term but any break in the ranks will make it that much worse.

The problem with the Democrats is they hide all the sane ones and showcase people like Pelosi and Wasserface-Schultz, Waters, etc.....

Aren't there any true Democrats left anymore? Enough with the radical class warfare poverty pimps.

Yes, Doug, there are true democrats left, but, be use they are democrats, they are walking around with paper bags over their heads, calling themselves the "No Labels" party.

Kinda like the Montreal fans a few years ago- the team stunk, the fans could not stay away, but they showed up wearing paper sacks to hide their heads.

Got their points across- management took notice, and shook things up.

I wonder of the democrats will do the same? It seems to me they have never faced the kind of cataclysm Obama is bringing down on them.

I'm pretty sure I saw the mother in law wearing a Perry button- although, maybe it was a Romney button- it wasn't a great shot.

Anyway, it didn't say "2012", which is the slogan Obama adopted after "I need four more years to finish the job" proved to stoke the fears most people had, and WTF proved too apt.

Waters was interviewed tonight and she said we needed about a trillion dollars for infrastructure, you know the code word for stimulus.

Obama is looking for something short term to get a boost, but if we are talking about infrastructure again, are you telling me now we have shovel ready jobs?. I can tell you just the EIR could take months or even years and its not cheap. So what are we really looking at?

Was there an EIR done before we started in on Oak Ridge? The environmental impact of fixing what we've already built and let fall apart should be well understood and predictable, and simple to mitigate. It is no excuse for holding up progress.