Feisty, funny that all of the Republicans except Cain are basically career politicians and elected office holders. Running as an outsider, or a simple business person is a fantasy.

Enjoy Labor Day everyone. Remember the workers in all walks of life that make make this country work each and everyday. Thank you union workers past and present, that build our buildings, fly our airplanes, tend to the sick , teach our children , fix things that are broken and others too numerous to mention.

A recent poll of GOP voters in Iowa showed that only 35 percent of respondents believe in evolution -- and a mere 21 percent believe in climate change.

You won't be surprised to learn that 32 percent of those same voters incorrectly
believe that President Obama was born outside America.

This is just depressing.

The scientific consensus disagrees with both A and B, and C is just incorrect. And this is the biggest problem with the GOP of "today." - Ignorance.

I think we have "W" to thank for this. His folksy ineptitude was a dog whistle that basically said, "Hey, you TOO are dumb enough to be President."

Now every joe, sarah or rick thinks they'll try it too. Yeehaw and you betcha'.

The Tea Party is pretty much and Fox News / Koch Bros creation.

If a Tea Party member wins the POTUS in 2012

Does this not make R. Murdoch the most influential, non-elected, non-American, non-patriot men in our nation's history?

Do the TP members waiving around their "I love Fox News" banners have any idea the role they are playing?

Romney can pretend to be part of the Tea Party.

Well, he can certainly pretend to be a bigot, and he can tout his hatred for the black man in the white house.

But, he has to be careful about religion. He can blast gays, and say that women don't need planned parenthood, but he can't hold a "Come to Jesus" rally in a stadium, and summon the gods to make it rain. And to destroy the non-evangelicals.

He can say that the president is Muslim, but that is on a slippery slope, as he is an outcast himself to the "gimmie that ole time religion" set of puritan old white folks that are supporting inbred Tea Party candidates on the right.

Slick Rick, Texas is burning! A young Mom and her baby have perished in a fire in Bastrop.

Show some leadership......return to Texas and do your job......(whatever that is).

Guess you need to hold another revival since obviously your prayers haven't been answered. Is it Gods fault or will you find some 'charged' rhetoric to blame President Obama?

God did it, my prayers not answered.......Obama did it, failed ......Texas is burning!

Awwwww... can we please keep religion out of it?

Marilyn-2098599 Awwwww... can we please keep religion out of it?

Agree Marilyn, but Bachmann and Slick Rick keep injecting God into politics!

Thank you union workers past and present, that build our buildings, fly our airplanes, tend to the sick , teach our children , fix things that are broken and others too numerous to mention.

And Thank you to the 93% of workers who are non union, who do probably more than 93% of America's building our buildings .......

Thank you for doing a great job at a fair free market price without poltical manipulation, without coercion, bullying and 2 bit thuggery.

Thank you for not forcing legislators out of a state to protect a priviledged status, trashing state capitals when you don't get your way.

Thank you for not being part of destroying jobs by holding up 3 free trade agreements for 5 years.

Thank you for not not being part of destroying jobs such as preventing Boeing from building a new plant in S. Carolina.

Thank you for not being part of the destruction of great American cities like Detroit, the former car capital of the world; Akron , the former tire capital; Pittsburg, former steel capital ........

Thank you for not being part of the Honda plant mess in Ohio which preceeded Honda's decision to build their next plant in Mexico. It's truly sad when unions and liberal presidents make a third world country over run with drug lords and cartels seem more attractive than America.

In short, Thank you for not being part of the demise of America.

But most of all, Thank you for upholding American values. Values such as freedom of choice / to work without belonging to a corruption, freedom of the secret ballot ...... the spirit of free enterprise.

Oh yea, on behalf of President Obama, let me thank you for working his birthday party in Chicago...... obviously a tribute to your ability to get the job done - and done at an affordable, fair price without a lot of needless difficulty and petty union hassles.

Thank you Unions for Child Labor Laws!

Thank you Unions for the 40 hour work week!

Thank you Unions for minimum wage laws!

Thank you Unions for safe work places!

Thank you Unions for retirement systems/benefits!

Thanks for all that you have done that non-union workers enjoy-- and will continue to do on behalf of all workers, including perhaps having this day off--Labor Day!

Thank you horses for providing transportattion and helping America become the great nation became.

Thank you, but your time has passed ........ we need you and the tons of horsecrap in the streets and cities about as much as we need unions and their crap in the streets and cities.

Don't think that is how the Tea Party wants to work. Over on Fox said I supported Romney and was told I wasn't a Republican and was a liberal. One said RINO.

Personally I want Obama out. So want a candidate that can attract moderates and Independents and think Romney can. The Tea Party keeps saying they are the majority but that looks like more Rhetoric.

Bachmann and Perry are to far right to get the independent vote.

Pretty good call Matt. But let's see how this next round of debates shapes up for the remaining candidates. And, especially, let's see how they fare in the first primaries.

The Tea Party isn't a political party. It has no definite leader. It is just an expression of a certain cross section of our society that is fed up with certain aspects of our government and how it operates. Or should I say, how it doesn't operate.

Does the Tea Party have political influence. Well, obviously it does. This is a normal offshoot of our age of communication. People are paying attention to what goes on in Washington like never before. This is healthy.

The silent majority isn't quite so silent anymore. They are questioning everything and their numbers are huge enough to make elected officials start worrying. Again, this is healthy. Government by the people.

Bachmann has already promised to default our government. Yes the tea party and their downgrade are so good for our country. That's if you want a broken country being sold off piece by piece to the rich.

Every road, like Perry is doing in Texas could become a toll road. No taxes per the we are taxed enough already party but it will cost you $5.00 to drive to work on the foreign owned roads. No taxes but if you are working a low income job, you can't afford to send your children to school. No taxes, but it will now cost you like in Texas $600 a year to ride the school bus per child.

So much fairer, no taxes, but everything will cost more as each company has to make a profit off the people. Soon it will be like where I lived, where they charged you a fee of $40 per month just to have water delivered through the pipes to your house even if you use $10 per month of actual water. Your bill will be $50 for $10 worth of water. Edison water so cheap.

No taxes, but you will pay way more for everything than you ever paid in taxes. This is to benefit the rich, not you.

If the Tea Party is the "silent majority", then why do they have such dismal approval ratings? They must be seriously self-loathing.

The Tea Party is not new. They are the same as the "Moral Majority" (which was never a majority either) and the John Birch Society. Their primary goal is propagating their religious beliefs and securing power for themselves, but most Americans don't like being lectured to by some holier-than-thou preacher demanding that they submit to a superstitous doctrine. We like our liberty and freedom too much for that brand of authoritarianism.

They can pretend to be something else, but the more America gets to know them, the more they realize who they really are underneath their facade. And the more they see the true face of the Tea Party, the more they don't like it.

Nathan, the Tea Party has 'dismal approval ratings' among liberals, the rest of America agrees with them! Sarah Palin is not even running, yet the libbies get into major hissy fits whenever she gets an article in the newspapers, lol! I for one love it.... proves that the left cannot defend Obama's record, so they focus on Palin! I know it doesn't make sense to me either, but that's what is happening!

All the libbie posters at First Read can do is attack Palin and Republican nominees (mostly with viterol and little substance) yet they refuse to answer a simple question: "Why would Obama's truly dismal record over the last 3 years be rewarded with a second term?" No one can provide an answer to that one..... there will be a change in 2012, I just don't know who it will be yet. And thankfully the liberals can only sit back and wait for the inevitable!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147308/Negative-Views-Tea-Party-Rise-New-High.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=plaintextlink&utm_term=Politics

Self described moderates and independents also view the Tea Party unfavorably. Guess there must be an aweful lot of libbies out there. Maybe even a <gasp> majority. Or maybe your definition of "liberal" includes anybody with even a vague grip on reality.

Simple answer to your question: the lesser of two evils. The field of Republicans is that scary with a robber baron, a shamelessly corrupt career politician, and a fundamentalist hypocrite leading the way. Another simple response using your own argument: after the even more dismal failure of the Republican administration preceding Obama, why would anyone trust them with government again so soon?

You're the one bringing up Palin as a distraction, Steve. I don't need her to be afraid of a Republican led government again.

If the right wing wants to make themselves relevant to this independent voter, they need to clean house. Break with the fundamentalists and the anarchists and come up with some ideas to improve government rather than destroy it. That's all I'm asking. Give me a legitimate alternative.

Mitt says he is a businessman. Maybe he used to be a businessman, but what exactly does he do when he is not running for President?

Mitt "Gordon Gekko" Romney is out there putting the president down. I wish we could put it to a test, with Romney as POTUS in 2008 against a hypothetical Democratic obstructionist Party of No, and see how well things would be now for him or anyone else. The GOP/TP are posers, who would have failed miserably even with a cooperative congress.

SteveH USA -- Aside from answering your question above about three years of a poor economy and placing blame at the feet of the Grand Obstructionist Party, further to Nathan's points, here is what Teabaggers really are -- This from the Pew Research Center:

But the precise nature of the Tea Party has been less clear. Is it solely a movement to reduce the size of government and cut taxes, as its name -- some people refer to it as the Taxed Enough Already party -- implies? Or do its supporters share a broader set of conservative positions on social as well as economic issues? Does the movement draw support across the religious spectrum? Or has the religious right "taken over" the Tea Party, as some commentators have suggested?¹

A new analysis by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life finds that Tea Party supporters tend to have conservative opinions not just about economic matters, but also about social issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage. In addition, they are much more likely than registered voters as a whole to say that their religion is the most important factor in determining their opinions on these social issues.² And they draw disproportionate support from the ranks of white evangelical Protestants.

This from the American Sociological Association:

The analysis shows that most people who agree with the religious right also support the Tea Party. But support for the Tea Party is not synonymous with support for the religious right.

Tea party voters are more likely to fear change and harbor negative attitudes toward immigrants, according to a study presented Monday at the American Sociological Association's annual conference in Las Vegas.

The study, called "Cultures of the Tea Party," also claims voters who felt favorably toward the tea party movement valued deference to authority and libertarianism. The report concludes that the tea party movement is not a new political phenomenon, but rather "is best understood as a new cultural expression of the late-20th-century Republican Party."

This from a Harvard/Notre Dame study:

"Our analysis casts doubt on the Tea Party’s “origin story.” Early on, Tea Partiers were often described as nonpartisan political neophytes. Actually, the Tea Party’s supporters today were highly partisan Republicans long before the Tea Party was born, and were more likely than others to have contacted government officials. In fact, past Republican affiliation is the single strongest predictor of Tea Party support today.

What’s more, contrary to some accounts, the Tea Party is not a creature of the Great Recession. Many Americans have suffered in the last four years, but they are no more likely than anyone else to support the Tea Party. And while the public image of the Tea Party focuses on a desire to shrink government, concern over big government is hardly the only or even the most important predictor of Tea Party support among voters.

So what do Tea Partiers have in common? They are overwhelmingly white, but even compared to other white Republicans, they had a low regard for immigrants and blacks long before Barack Obama was president, and they still do.

More important, they were disproportionately social conservatives in 2006 — opposing abortion, for example — and still are today.

All the studies conclude that the Tea Party is and always has been a minority in the Republican Party who want more religion, not just less government, and also a bunch of bigots.

Even in Goldwater's day, or now Ron Paul, the true fiscal conservatives do not mix religion with politics. The current Republican Party is being run by folks who want a theocracy. Way to go Romney, you signed the Marriage Pledge.

I agree with you ~

This Tom Bell offered his thoughts on Romney's relationship with the Tea Party.

"He doesn't really subscribe to Tea Party principles, and he's going to claim to be a tea partier," said Bell.

Bell added that he was considering supporting Rick Perry in New Hampshire.

Hate to inform Bell but Rick Perry does not subscribe to Tea Party Principles...

He said he agreed with Vicente Fox's dream of open borders with the US,,,,(don't think that's Tea P)..

He gave illegals the Dream Act and free college. He gave them free medical and even gave free medical to Mexicans on the Mex side of the border.

He appointed many Hispanics to high offices and that did not qualify.

He's just a crook like Obama...

Palin/2012 ~ Mitt Romney as her VP ~ the only two honest ones of the bunch.

24,000 emails and she comes out smelling like a ROSE..

Romney would come out clean also, I'm sure.

Would like to see Sheriff Joe, Cain, West, Bachmann in her cabinet

Sheriff Joe to replace Janet at Homeland...

Someone to replace that piece of garbage, Salazar at the EPA....

.

"While President Obama keeps at it, 24/7 with dignity and grace."

Except for lots of golf...and lots of vacations....and lots of fundraising trips where he gets huge corporate contributions from bigshots like Comcast 's CEO, the owner of this very Obama shill network, MSNBC. And crooked public employee unions.

It is good Obama doesnt "keep at it" 24/7.....what he is 'keeping at' is destroying the private sector economy, and making America become a failed socialist downtrodden European- like state....

Bob, haven't you heard? MSNBC doesn't like the President. They supported him in the general election in '08 over McCain/Palin, but well, he's not progressive enough for them. And they feel stabbed in the back by him. It's personal.

Sort of like how us Democrats/Obama supporters feel. We supported these MSNBC hosts, we talked about them all over the internets, every single day, trying to get people to watch them. We rooted for them, day in, day out. We did the same with progressive internet sites. And what do you know?

They don't want us now any more than they want to see the president re-elected. Forget us, the President's supporters. We're invisible these days. To be laughed at.

Not nice people. I am the first to admit that I haven't been 100% on board with every decision he has made. But he's my Democratic President , someone I admire, someone I like and someone I will work hard for next year.

Vacations? Ridiculous statements from the GOP. Immature nonsense. Is Congress back yet from their month long vacation? The House works what - every other week? The House that is controlled by Republicans.

As far as the golfing goes, I think it's good for any president to take up golf. It's healthy, it's outside in beautiful weather, away from the gawkers and crowds.

It's a good sport to take up for those who need some time to themselves.

Fundraising. He needs to do it. Most of the wealthy ones are with Romney, since they feel that President Obama, you know - stabbed them in the back.

Such petty nonsense everywhere these days. A bunch of spoiled rich brats. All around us.

So, Pat, what about the fruits of Obama's labors?

He added four trillion dollars to the national debt in two and a half years, and what do we have to show for it?

Unemployment at 9.1%, but only because so many million have been recategorized out of the labor force in two and a half years that the civilian labor force is at 1983 levels. Add those people back in, and unemployment is 13%.

GDP growth for the first quarter of this year at 0.4%, subject to yet another downward revision. Quarter two revised down to one percent from its measly 1.3%- again, subject to further, downward revision.

He ordered one-just one- EPA regulation halted until the magic year of 2013. Do you think businesses don't know what that means? Meanwhile, he has done nothing to address the rest of the staggering number of regulations churned out by his administration- 13% growth in two years. Still wondering why firms are not hiring?

He was so indifferent to the warnings that food shortages would cause chaos in the Middle East and North Africa that he could not be bothered to take the minimal action of opening up our wheat, corn, and soybean reserves to ship to that region. Thus, we see the overwhelming chaos there- with the threat to Israel as a bonus. Some think this was deliberate, and a sign of his basic anti-Semitism, pointing to the ravings of the Reverend Wright, whose church he attended for twenty years.

I see it as another sign of his complete ineptitude.

You rail at the Progressives who have turned on him. I, personally, haven't seen it, but, suppose you are right. Do you not see that they recognize the realities of his failures, while you deliberately blind yourself to the same?

Perhaps they are angered and aggrieved because he failed to live up to the hype he presented. Perhaps, in the words of a song, they suffer from " the anger of having been a fool".

Perhaps they are furious, because they know that he cannot win reelection, and the Democratic party has destroyed, by his hand, the party's center. You do recall that the DLC closed its doors recently, do you not?

So, the Democratic party has been reduced to a fringe party- at Obama's hands. Were I still a member, I might be somewhat peeved myself. Even Carter did not destroy the Democratic party.

Obama has, however, single-handedly done what no one believed possible- he resurrected the Republican party. For that, I thank him.

For what he has done to my country? He will go down in infamy. His dwindling band of worshippers will never admit his failings, but the rest of the cow try sees them, clearly.

Obama shelved in 2012.

Oh, and Pat?

Here is another example of Obama's "success"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/world/africa/05migrants.html?_r=1

I guess the New York Times is backstabbing him by printing stories that do not reflect on the glory that is Obama?

Too bad. At least First Read avoids any unflattering stories, right? They still the good guys? Still waving those pom poms?

What a sad creation the Obama cult is- cheerleading the destructive policies of a little tin god.

Oh, and no joe -

From The People'sView:

Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left The Cult by Mike Lofgren:

To those millions of Americans who have finally begun paying attention to politics and watched with exasperation the tragicomedy of the debt ceiling extension, it may have come as a shock that the Republican Party is so full of lunatics. To be sure, the party, like any political party on earth, has always had its share of crackpots, like Robert K. Dornan or William E. Dannemeyer. But the crackpot outliers of two decades ago have become the vital center today: Steve King, Michele Bachman (now a leading presidential candidate as well), Paul Broun, Patrick McHenry, Virginia Foxx, Louie Gohmert, Allen West. The Congressional directory now reads like a casebook of lunacy.

It was this cast of characters and the pernicious ideas they represent that impelled me to end a nearly 30-year career as a professional staff member on Capitol Hill. A couple of months ago, I retired; but I could see as early as last November that the Republican Party would use the debt limit vote, an otherwise routine legislative procedure that has been used 87 times since the end of World War II, in order to concoct an entirely artificial fiscal crisis. Then, they would use that fiscal crisis to get what they wanted, by literally holding the US and global economies as hostages.

The debt ceiling extension is not the only example of this sort of political terrorism. Republicans were willing to lay off 4,000 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) employees, 70,000 private construction workers and let FAA safety inspectors work without pay, in fact, forcing them to pay for their own work-related travel - how prudent is that? - in order to strong arm some union-busting provisions into the FAA reauthorization.

John P. Judis:

"Over the last four decades, the Republican Party has transformed from a loyal opposition into an insurrectionary party that flouts the law when it is in the majority and threatens disorder when it is the minority. It is the party of Watergate and Iran-Contra, but also of the government shutdown in 1995 and the impeachment trial of 1999. If there is an earlier American precedent for today's Republican Party, it is the antebellum Southern Democrats of John Calhoun who threatened to nullify, or disregard, federal legislation they objected to and who later led the fight to secede from the union over slavery."

__________________________________________

The Republican Party is one big insane asylum. No fear no joe - the media is on your side, including so-called progressives. The true sell outs in this country.

What they're doing to President Obama, they did to Carter & Gore. Not liberal enough they said.

You want a do-nothing government? You've got it. You want a president strictly for the rich? You just might get it.

Congratulations.

The downgrade the tea party brought us that was good for the country?

Destructive policies, you can't mean like a party that would borrow money to give tax cuts to the richest and then start two wars, and for the first time in American history, did not raise taxes to pay for the wars. Magically we now have a debt problem due to tax cuts during war time.

What is the republicans answer for this, lets attack social security. Most of all, we cannot raise taxes on the richest that caused our problem to begin with.

You be sure and keep that blindfold on, so you don't see who has the real destructive policies for our nation.

Wow, Pat- a 28 year congressional staffer retires, (and, Mr. Lofgren? It's "compelled", not "impelled"), and I'm supposed to take that as a sign of, what, exactly?

Perhaps you will be so good as to explain why you believe the poor economic record of the Obama administration is the fault of the media reporting it? I honestly do not understand your precept. Facts are facts, Pat. Do you expect them to lie about the numbers?

The media reports every month that the public blames Bush for the start of the economic meltdown. Well and good.

Here is Obama's problem- when your washer breaks down, you don't blame the repairperson for the breakdown. However, if his attempts to fix the problem actually exacerbate it, you DO understand that he does not know how to fix it.

If you have any sense, you call another repairperson. From another company.

That's what's going to happen in 2012, Pat.

Mitt Romney is a liar.

Think Progress:

Back in June, Romney said states shouldn't receive FEMA money. That to him, it was immoral.

Embracing a radical anti-government ideology from the most extreme elements of the Tea Party, Romney said that the victims in Mississippi, LA, TN MA and other communities hit by tornadoes and flooding should not receive governmental assistance. He argued it is “simply immoral” for there to be deficit spending that could harm future generations-

At The Zoo, Wayne Schneider has some questions for Romney:

You said in the debate that borrowing more money to provide disaster relief was “immoral.” Was it immoral when you did it? Flooding and severe winter storms have been a problem for your state, and you accepted federal aid for it in 2004, 2005, big time in 2006 and again in 2007. There may be other examples, but I found those after a brief search of the internets. Was it moral for you to ask the federal government to borrow money to help your state with disaster relief back then?

If Romney actually cared about the welfare of future generations, he would take action to arrest global warming pollution instead of supporting the oil company agenda, and would cut subsidies for billionaires instead of balancing the budget on the backs of the poor and vulnerable.

___________________________________

"Let Detroit Go Bankrupt". Mitt Romney

MSNBC doesn't like the President.

Demonstrated ever so elequently by Chuck Todd's hissy fit last week over the debate debacle...

The media is nothing but a joke albeit a BAD one!

It's going to be up to us Pat, to keep the truth front & center!

I asked you a question, Pat. Instead of answering, you copied and pasted an article from think progress.

Leave aside my opinion that those who wish to read think progress can do so without its dissemination by its loyalists on other sites- how about answering the question?

no joe, what this individual spelled out was facts. And President Obama's record is far far better than any Republicans. You are a Republican. Why this party inspires you I'll never know. They have blocked President Obama, hence the people, every step of the way as he tries to clean up a mess brought upon us by Wall Street and the two wars. Haven't you learned yet? The GOP doesn't care about you.

If that's what you want, go for it. You have plenty of company. Watch MSNBC. They are your friend. You should especially like Pat Buchanan.

I'm a Democrat. Always, forever. And I'm not just a Democrat when it suits me. Not just when the progressives decide their party screwed up (the GOP) under GWB & btw, Reagan. Because that's what most of them are.

Former unhappy republicans. They voted for Reagan. They wanted it all, which was what Reagan was selling. Big big big mistake. And they're going to let it happen again. I know them well. I grew up with them.

President Obama has a Congress (both parties) who don't give a **** about us. So he goes next year, they hope, instead of working harder for more D's.

They have no clout. They are quitters. Always were. And terribly terribly cruel. Especially to faithful Democrats. But they know best. Evidently.

Perry. Romney. Big difference from President Obama. Yet they treat the President as if he were one of 'em.

_____________________________________

"Let Detroit Go Bankrupt." Mitt Romney

no joe, don't tell me how to answer a question.

How would the republicans know whether or not President Obama's policies would help America. As far as I can see we have not tried any.

Obama only got half of the stimulus he wanted and then half of that had to go to tax cuts demanded by the republicans.

Then many republicans like Perry used the money to bolster his states economy and then lied and said how the stimulus didn't work. But, watch Perry brag about his state and not mention the stimulus and the part it played in saving his state from higher unemployment. Now that the stimulus money is run out, watch the Texas miracle dissipate.

The republicans have obstructed every bill that could help America, yet we can trust them. The fantasy is that once Obama is out of office, the republicans are going to turn into human beings and start caring for America again.

The truth is that if the republicans gain control they will end social security and sell our country to the lowest bidder. After all their rich friends have to make money on their investments, the republican politicians bought and paid for with tax cut money from their grateful benefactors.

For the love of our country Obama 2012

Feisty, I have always been hesitant to go after Chuck Todd, because this is his blog isn't it? But I don't like his "reporting". It's more gossipy than journalism.

I see that the President has something like 90% support of the Democratic voters? Yet we don't seem to be too important. They only provide interviews with those with negative opinions.

There's plenty of us who like President Obama. Not happy with everything. Yet know he is a hard worker, with very little to work with.

The press like republicans. Always have.

"Let Detroit Go Bankrupt". Mitt Romney

TACTICS FOR EFFECTIVE CONSERVATIVE BLOGGING By Karl Rove

#2 - Attack: Attack the source. Any Liberal website or information source must be marginalized, trivialized and discounted. Let the blogosphere know that Truthout.org, thinkprogress.org, the nation and moveon.org are Liberal rubbish propaganda. Discredit Liberal sources of information whenever possible.

So, in other words, Pat, no matter how destructive, inept, and hopelessly out of his depth the candidate might be, if he or she is a democrat, he or she has your vote?

Good to know you put party before country.

Me, I'm a little different. I campaigned for Carter- then realized that he was hopeless at the job. So, I voted for Reagan. He broke inflation, and started an economic expansion that was unprecedented in post-War years.

I voted for GHW Bush, including for his reelection, because, (first), I wanted Reagan's economic policies continued, and (second), because we were at the threshold of lasting peace in the Middle East, thanks to Saddam Hussein's overreach, and a coalition of the free world- and the Middle East, which had no desire to be "next". We could have a different world today, were it not for that lunatic Perot, and his personal grudge against Bush.

That said, I voted for Clinton for reelection. I had problems with Dole- he seemed to lack the proper temperament to be president. I liked his national security agenda, but did not like his domestic policies. So, I voted for Clinton, who was doing a much different job since December 1994, all the while pretending to fight the republican congress.

Clinton was a master politician- and I mean that as a compliment.

So, here is the difference between us- were Obama a republican, I would not be planning to vote for him, because of his record of failures. In fact, I would be writing to the White House, urging him to reconsider even standing for reelection.

You prefer to blame the media for reporting his failures. Suppose they do as you wish- if there are no reports about the unemployment rate, does that mean more people are employed? If there are no reports about anemic GDP growth- does that make it more robust?

Of course not- but you prefer to blame the messenger for the message, rather than admit the truth: Obama is a failure, with no clue how to succeed.

Oh, and it's really your fault- he should never have been put into this position. Things would be much better in this country if Hillary had been the nominee.

I do commend you for being honest enough to admit that no failure will sway your vote. At least you are honest- you're a democrat, not an American, first.

Good to know.

But I don't like his "reporting". It's more gossipy than journalism

I had a lot of respect for Chuck in 2008 when he was the numbers guy, since then, he's evolved into another run of the mill partisan hack & Andrea Mitchell as well... IMHO

I see that the President has something like 90% support of the Democratic voters? Yet we don't seem to be too important.

Am I the only one who has noticed the RWNJ's feverishly working overtime to create some phony controversy surrounding Democratic unity?

Why all the Hillary chatter lately?

Nothing more then a feeble attempt to stir the pot!

As if I would EVER vote for any of the current contenders in today's Republican party! ;o)

There's plenty of us who like President Obama. Not happy with everything.

Where the hell is the DNC? Why aren't they out there everyday like we are & fighting just as hard?

Enjoy your holiday Pat!

I had a lovely BBQ at my house yesterday and am taking it easy today while enjoying the touch of fall in the air.

"MSNBC doesn't like the President."

Pure nonsense, Pat.

Let's think this through, shall we?

One day of viewing MSNBC's prime time line-up leaves no doubt whatsoever about the leftward slant of the network...we know MSNBC has no use for conservatives, the GOP, or conservative political movements like the Tea Party.

Now...

As a liberal/progressive oriented media organization, if MSNBC really, REALLY didn't like President Obama, they'd be arguing for an alternative candidate from the left.

They would let it be known that they favor a primary challenge to President Obama, and be offering a forum to those on the left (and there are more and more of them every day, even at an unabashedly pro-Obama website such as our own First Read) who would prefer a Democratic candidate other than President Obama.

But MSNBC doesn't do that.

In fact, they get rid of people who they feel have spent too much time criticizing President Obama.

Case in point:

Cenk Uygur criticizes President Obama's leadership, and is soon replaced by Obama sycophant Al Sharpton.

It doesn't get any more blatant than that.

MSNBC loves President Obama...and they're not about to allow anyone, not Cenk Uygur or anyone else, to change that, Pat.

And Feisty...

Chuck Todd is the Political Director of NBC News as well as its White House correspondent.

When he offers balanced coverage (and that, believe it or not, includes criticism) of the Obama Administration, it could be argued that he's actually making a good faith effort to do his job.

Good to see no joe getting all the tea people GOP republican talking points in this Labor day.

In your analogy of the washing machine breaking down no joe. In his attempts to fix the washer the company (aka republicans) didn't give him the parts he needed to do the repairs, so when he got there he couldn't fix the problem, and the problem just got worse, the customer kept asking the company (aka republicans) to please give the repair man the parts he needs to repair the washer but they kept refusing, saying it cost to much. It's not that he doesn't know how to fix it, it's that he doesn't have the parts. See no joe it's you that doesn't understand. And that other company (aka republicans) you want to call, well they don't have a clue on how to fix the washer. Get it now no joe?

Dennis, you think your lie has any credibility left?

You post lines from a document that purports to have been written by a professor of communications at a fifth rate college- not Karl Rove.

In fact, it is nothing more than poorly re-written tropes from Alinsky's Rules for Radicals- a point I mentioned when emailing said professor.

I questioned whether it was, in fact, his work at all- since that kind of blatant plagiarism would cost any professor- tenured or not- his or her position.

Gee, I hope none of you treehouse kids planted that on the Web. It would be too bad if this poor soul lost his job because you juveniles thought it would be a great stunt.

TACTICS FOR EFFECTIVE CONSERVATIVE BLOGGING By Karl Rove

#2 Engage Demand an elaborate, time-consuming comparison / analysis between your position and theirs. Entangle Insist that the Liberal put their posts in their own words. That will consume the most time and effort for the Liberal poster

They will be unable to spread numerous points on numerous blogs if you have them occupied. Allowing a Liberal to post a web link is too quick and efficient for them. Tie them up. We are going for delay of game here. Demoralize Dismiss their narrative as rubbish immediately

a point I mentioned when emailing said professor.

Hope you were more successful then you were in your pathetic attempt to get Mark Murray fired! ;o)

Dennis-

Attack the source...

Like Pat's absurd assertion that MSNBC doesn't like President Obama?

And Feisty's assault on Chuck Todd?

Pat and Feisty are "Rovians"?

Who knew?

no joe, I'm not an American?

Well, here we go with that crap. Again. Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't born in Boston? You know something I don't know?

The day I vote "R" is the day I sell out to my fellow Americans. I'll never do it. Never ever.

Where was I born (as I scratch my head). Hmmm. And all this time I thought my ancestor's daughter married one of the children who came over on the Mayflower. And actually founded a town right here on the south shore. From what I understand, he was a liberal preacher who was loved by all. (He got kicked out of England for being against the Church of England). A rebel with a cause.

I love how people from other states tell me I'm not an American. LoL. It's what you call dictatorship. I don't pass the "real American" test.

Joseph McCarthy anyone?

And with that, I have to head out now and buy a birthday present for my grandchild. 5 days off went fast. Back to work tomorrow.

Happy Labor Day no joe. The real American. I guess.

Read the line, Pat.

YOU were the one who stated, categorically, that you were a Democrat, first and foremost. Therefore, you are a democrat, not American, first.

Not my words, Pat- your words.

You want to twist what I said? Fine- but, perhaps, having it set down in print will cause you to reconsider your unwavering support for an inept failure of a president, simply because he is a democrat.

Hope springs eternal. Then again, you could follow high priestess Jody's example, and just pull out your book of Obama speeches to have your faith restored.

Then you winder why I refer to you as a cult.

I guess today the only Real Americans want a Dead America.

Let's kill FEMA, let's kill taxes altogether, let's kill the American government, let's kill the unions, let's kill social security, let's kill medicare and medicaid, let's kill education, let's kill public roads, let's kill the EPA, let's kill health care, let's kill welfare, let's kill food-stamps for the poor, let's kill a woman's right to choice, let's kill anything for the American people and then call ourselves the Real Americans.

If that is what it takes to be a Real American, I am not sure I want to be one.

I'll just stick with being an American that loves her country and doesn't want to see it die at the hands of the rich republican tea party, who just pretend to be Real Americans.

Hey, before I forget. I went to the Commonwealth Museum here in Boston, which is next door to the JFK Library. They had some really lovely artifacts from hundreds of years ago.

They took us into this room where we were told beforehand - DO NOT TOUCH! The documents in this room had a value of $300 million dollars.

There were three documents - an original copy of the Declaration of Independence, an original copy of the Bill of Rights and I believe the original Massachusetts Constitution, written by John Adams.

It was something to behold. All set at 25 degrees. One of the documents (I forget which) you could see had been folded up and put in a drawer for many many years before it was found. LoL.

I never really knew much about William & Mary, but learned a lot about them on my visit to the museum. Mary was Dutch. In all my reading, these two people are never really mentioned much. They go way back, before the Revolution.

Looks like that's my reading material for a while; they both sound quite interesting and now that I have read just about all the spy books I could find this summer, it's time to move on.

Ended with a bang with Tom Clancy's Patriot Games, which I had never read. It was a bit over the top. I'll stick with Daniel Silva, Len Deighton, David Liss, Philip Kerr and some others I discovered this summer.

So sorry to see the summer end.

Now I'm a cult. Geez. I had no idea. I really have to get with the GOP talking points program. Been out of the loop for a while.

Enjoy your day everybody.

"Now I'm a cult."

Is there a rule that says "If unable to rebut...deflect."?

You "Rovians" are as devious as your master, Pat.

lol

;-)

Is that the new talking point, if you disagree with a republican tea party person, you are a cult member?

I guess I would rather be in a Democratic cult that loves America, than a tea party cult that only wants death to America and have signed a pledge with Norquist to aid him and his rich friends in killing America.

"...phony controversy surrounding Democratic unity..."?

Really, Feisty?

This is Matt Stoller (that's OpenLeft.com's Matt Stoller, Feisty) writing at Joan Walsh's Salon yesterday:

"Democrats may soon have to confront an uncomfortable truth, and ask whether Obama is a suitable choice at the top of the ticket in 2012. They may then have to ask themselves if there's a way they can push him off the top of the ticket."

And;

"Obama has ruined the Democrats."

Again, this is a liberal/progressive (Matt Stoller) weighing in at a liberal/progressive website (Salon) in a piece entitled "What Democrats can do about Obama", Sunday, Sep 4, 2011.

There's no controversy, Feisty...phony, or otherwise.

Mo -

The company (aka republicans) didn’t give him the parts he needed to the repairs, so he couldn’t fix the problem.

Let’s look at it another way. A Consumer Protection Group (CPG -aka Republicans) is advising the company not to give the parts to the repairman. You see, the CPG knows the repairman is looking to replace some parts which might make the washer wash a couple more loads, but the fix is weak and won’t save the washing machine in the long run. Rather, the honest thing to do would be to say the fix is going to cost the customer more than the washing machine is worth. It’s just a better idea to get a new one. That the repairman was willing to simply rig the machine with a short term fix, look like a momentary hero to the customer and a crony to the part suppliers and charge the customer a fee, shows he is inept, dishonest, and isn’t looking out for the best interest of the customer. Time to either get a new machine, or a competent and honest repairman.

I had a lot of respect for Chuck in 2008 when he was the numbers guy, since then, he's evolved into another run of the mill partisan hack & Andrea Mitchell as well... IMHO

Perhaps, in Chuck's case, he has become more pragmatic in his judgement and reporting of the President, choosing to base it on facts and performance as opposed to the cult of personality some still cling to. He is still the numbers guy, but the numbers suck for Obama. As far as Mitchell goes, she's just a left winger disappointed that Obama has revealed himself incapable of the hype created for him in 2007-08. IMHO.

They won't push Obama anywhere. To do so will further shred the Party.

Too funny, no jo: One is impelled when one does something of one's own volition. One is compelled when coerced, for example if the Republican Party had kicked him out. Mr. Lofgren is correct.

Is that really you NDD?

If so a HUGE welcome back - you have no idea how much I've missed your voice! ;o)

Yep. I laughed myself silly over dear Pat's conversation with no jo. Thought to myself, "Self, enough sulking, get on with it." Don't have too much time to spare just now, but will pop in when I can.

Thought to myself, "Self, enough sulking, get on with it."

You have made my day! *hugs*

Hugs right back Feisty!

Oh, goody, look who's back.

From what I've read, Lofgren was a casualty of the budget cuts the House applied to itself. He was one of the lucky ones- he retired with a pretty nice package.

Unwillingly, I might add- hence the whiney op Ed.

Thus, he was "compelled", not "impelled".

There is a difference.

I laughed myself silly over dear Pat's conversation with no jo.

As you can see the NJ nut job is as bitter, delusional & dishonest as evuh!

Not that you would of expected anything different! ;o)

Sorry, no jo: You are wrong. Lofgren is writing about the choice he made. Therefore, he was impelled. It is a subtle difference, but one that is important all the same.

I have a comment. Waters and Carson were quite correct.

Yea you started it in 2010, and look where that nonsense got us.

Yes fire all those republican tea partiers that want to kill our country for the rich. The ones that pretend to care about the debt so much so they just can't bring themselves to tax the rich. The party that doesn't serve America, but they serve Norquist and his rich friends and have even signed pledges to the rich before America.

We need people with enough intelligence to know how to compromise. The republican tea party has proved that is not them.

Term limits, that is the only thing that can hope to save us. Can Americans file petitions and have it put on the ballots? Can we do it state by state? Then we could add strict financing laws and no retirements, just the same social security as the rest of the American people? At least then the republicans wouldn't be in such a hurry to kill social security if it was their retirement too.

The republicans in congress have a retirement, a good retirement paid for by the people. Just more of the I have got my retirement paid for by you and you can just suck rocks for all we care.

Your social security retirement is unconstitutional and my retirement is well, paid for by you and you can be sure my vote won't be changing it.

Leon, Very thoughtful post. I agree that the middle class as consumers are not the solution to the recession. Wages have been stagnant for decades, barely keeping up to inflation. So I look forward to the Presidents proposal for a Jobs bill. We do need a huge public works project to fix bridges, roads , build new schools etc. Also need investment in research and higher education for the long term.

Also need a policy for the housing crisis which has contributed to the loss of real wealth for the middle class with sinking housing prices.

We see this every day in Texas where we have legislators that run private schools , and have vested interests in educational software making decisions about public schools that in reality directly benefit themselves(such as cutting Texas education by almost 5 billion).

So they benefit by cutting off their funding? How so.

DFL, you thought this thoughtful?

Northstar,

For claiming to be "Progressive" the Infrastructure Bank and focus on building roads is "Regressive" back to the vision of the 30's and 40's. I'm afraid you all are envisioning the millions put to work by the WPA building the interstate with picks and shovels. The truth is the road that took thousands to build 60 years ago, takes one tenth the manpower now. Manpower has been replaced by machinery.

Of the 12-16 million unemployed, only 25% have usual occupations in the construction trade. What do we do for the other 75% service and professional workers?

I understand your heart might be in the right place, though.

Candice, During the Depression the WPA and other government agencies brought electricity to rural areas. Bridges were built, state highways and roads gave good access into our state parks and forest. Buildings were constructed in rural and urban areas in our state. Our city hall of St. Paul is a fabulous example of art deco style with beautiful finishing details of wood, iron, glass, and even onyx built during the depression.

Our interstate highway system was built during the 50"s. Many farmers joined construction crews in MN as our portion of the interstate was built. It brought additional income and new business to towns along the interstate.

Today, big infrastructure projects of building bridges, roads and schools would also include all kinds of professionals due to our modern society. You would have architects, technology providers, media vendors, furniture makers, window makers, carpets, tiles, lighting, landscaping designers all needed to build a school for the 21st century.

Building a bridge would involve, scientists, geologists, hydrologists,engineers before the concrete is even poured.

All these projects would also have contracts, insurance, payrolls. So lawyers, accountants, insurance agents, HR folks, would have business. And best of all the communities who will use these things will see investment they can use, not some far off financial product they cannot even understand, or a cheap accessory product that breaks or is out of style in six months.

Candice, yes only 25% have construction trades, but who will feed them while at the work site? Venders. Who will take them to the work sites, buses, their own cars (gas), trains, subways. Will they need new work clothes, boots, gloves, some one makes them. There will be many more jobs and workers and money put back in the economy then just construction workers.

Northstar and Derf,

Points well taken. I'm just afraid you all are expecting too much from another very expensive, misdirected and unsupervised infrastructure program or worse, WPA like program. The last infrastructure push, included in Stimulus One, had little effect.

Hello Candice,

[The last infrastructure push, included in Stimulus One, had little effect.}

I agree. I believe this was due to way too much "pork" involved which funneled money away from which it was originally intended.

But I do think the projects that did manage to get off the ground (and I saw many here in New York State, both public AND private) benefitted not just the contractor who got the job, but everybody from the local trucking firms to the local asphalt/concrete plant to the local stores to the local hotels/motels to the local restaurants...

Hello, Mickey.

Okay. But when the projects ended, was there a lasting effect? Or was it a short term fix?

There were many projects that actually allowed some (not all) businesses to remain in business. A little shot in the arm so to speak. From my perspective, it had a lasting effect, for most, but not all. This is what makes it so confusing when the detractors say that the "stimulus failed". I beg to differ. I think that saying the stimulus programs were a failure is being naive. The TARP Banking Programs actually made approximately $7 billion dollar profit.

No doubt he'll be on the ballot.

He just won't win.

--Romney is part of the rich power structure

And your point would be?

Do you think Obama has your best interests in mind? If so, why he and not Romney? Because he shares your warped view of the world? I would rather have a man who has made his own money than a bought and paid for puppet.

I don't think you have anything for sale. I don't think you've earned anything. But check with Obama, he's still got some hope and change he's selling.

I would rather have a man who has made his own money than a bought and paid for puppet.

So Doug...... looks like you won't be voting Republican then?

He jabbed at the repubs quite a lot, as he ought to.

I watched the speech & was relieved to see some fire in his belly again! ;o)

He's fired up & ready to go & so am I!

Hilda Solis is unqualified. So unqualified and such a partisan hack she didn't either know or didn't want to acknowledge Texas has led the nation in job creation over the last decade. Did you catch her interview?

She is typical of what is wrong with the Obama administration. I wonder what she did to get her position.

He jabbed at the repubs quite a lot, as he ought to

Really? Because once one becomes President, he's supposed to be working for all the people. Guess he forgot about that "putting country over party" thing he was talking about yesterday.

Glad to hear our Divider in Chief held a good pep rally. Now, if he would only use the same energy to help govern the whole country.

Texas leads the nation in government jobs made with stimulus money old trickie Rickie said he didn't want.

Was it on CNN already?

MSNBC ran it live - I was looking for you in the crowd... ;o)

Judging by the reception from the crowd - all the pontificating from the pundits about the President's base being unhappy was only more bullsh!t!

xx (Hollywood smooch on each cheek).

Right back atcha! *XX*

Since you have already seen the President's speech I will see if I can send you a copy of Aretha's preamble.

That would be sweet! ;o)

Can you grasp at any more straws?

Well said Jarhead 57 ! I am confused by the T Party and their avoidance of the fact that Palin just up and quit her job. There was never any uproar about her childish action and the rationale was never fully discussed by the right or the media , save for the excuse that she was saving the state money by avoiding more legal scrutiny. How can the Tea party with the loud claims of moral supremacy, and personal responsibility condone such a cowardly and immature action?