Well it’s official!

Illinois notorious dead-beat dad/congressman Joe Walsh will be skipping President Obama’s job speech next week!

Maybe he has a more pressing engagement, like, a second job at Taco Bell to PAY BACK the $117K he owes in CHILD SUPPORT!

Joe Walsh Skipping Obama Jobs Talk

Congressman Joe Walsh (8th) has made a congressional career out of criticizing President Barack Obama.

The freshman Tea Party Republican just yesterday used a perjorative to describe the president.

“How idiotic is this president?” Walsh said to the GOP crowd Wednesday night in Nunda Township, according to the Northwest Herald. “I don’t want to be disrespectful, but he’s going to bring forth a jobs plan next week. Think about that for a minute. He’s been in office
for three years. He’s destroyed job creation systematically for three years.”

Thursday he told Ward Room that he will skip the president's job speech - rescheduled to Thursday - and instead hold his own Town Hall meeting in his district "with the people who really create jobs."

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Joe-Walsh-Skipping-Obama-Event-128900983.html#ixzz1WjQHK2E5alsh

Hint to the babies daddy – it’s NOT President Obama who’s the IDIOT!

The level is DISREPECT leveled at the President is truly astonishing!

For years now the people on the right have been complaining that 40 – 50% of the American people do not pay taxes or they just do not pay enough while they are trying to cut the taxes on the richest 2%. These claims have been misrepresented in trying to lend some sense of justification for lowering the taxes even further on the top 2% and increasing the taxes on the other 98%. Currently income taxes in general are the lowest they have been in 60 years. The effective income tax rate for the top 2% is about 18%. For the rest of us it is about 23-25% and the TP/GOP wants to lower still the top 2% and increase the other 98%. Hedge Fun Managers, some of the richest people in the world, only pay 15% because they get a tax break in that their income is treated as capital gains. The TP/GOP want to eliminate the “capital gains tax” – hence these fund managers would pay NO Income Taxes at all. Warren Buffet would in effect have an almost 0% effective rate instead of the 14% he paid last year.

Either way, the claims are false. And the other day at the Iowa State Fair, the Newt had this to say which correctly states that nearly all working Americans pay taxes in some form:

As reported by ThinkProgress:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/12/295052/gingrich-rebuts-gop-talking-point-on-taxes-virtually-everybody-pays-taxes/

KEYES: There’s been a lot of discussion on the number of people who aren’t paying income taxes. Do you think people are paying enough in taxes?

GINGRICH: Well, first of all, virtually everybody pays taxes, ’cause if you go to work, you pay into Social Security and Medicare taxes. We have property taxes. Most states if you buy something, you pay a sales tax. So I don’t find too many Americans who think that they are under, or they are not being taxed enough. [...]

It’s technically true of the income tax. It’s not true of taxes in general.

Gingrich is correct. As ThinkProgress has repeatedly noted, Americans who are not subject to the income tax — primarily senior citizens, students, the unemployed, and the poor — do pay taxes in other forms, whether through payroll taxes, sales taxes, or state income taxes. Less than a quarter of American households do not contribute to federal tax receipts.

As for the richest one percent of Americans, they’ve continued to see their tax rates fall, even as income inequality continues to grow to unfathomable levels.

Below is an excerpt from a CBPP Report: - Emphasis Added by me.

MISCONCEPTIONS AND REALITIES ABOUT WHO PAYS TAXES

By Chuck Marr and Brian Highsmith – CBPP

May 26, 2011

Executive Summary

A recent finding by Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation that 51 percent of households owed no federal income tax in 20091 is being used to advance the argument that low- and moderate income families do not pay sufficient taxes. Apart from the fact that most of those who make this argument also call for maintaining or increasing all of the tax cuts of recent years for people at the top of the income scale, the 51 percent figure, its significance, and its policy implications are widely misunderstood.

* The 51 percent figure is an anomaly that reflects the unique circumstances of 2009, when the recession greatly swelled the number of Americans with low incomes and when temporary tax cuts created by the 2009 Recovery Act — including the “Making Work Pay” tax credit and an exclusion from tax of the first $2,400 in unemployment benefits — were in effect. Together, these developments removed millions of Americans from the federal income tax rolls. Both of these temporary tax measures have since expired.

In a more typical year, 35 percent to 40 percent of households owe no federal income tax. In 2007, the figure was 37.9 percent.2

* The 51 percent figure covers only the federal income tax and ignores the substantial amounts of other federal taxes — especially the payroll tax — that many of these households pay. As a result, it greatly overstates the share of households that do not pay any federal taxes. Data from the Urban Institute- Brookings Tax Policy Center show only about 14 percent of households paid neither federal income tax nor payroll tax in 2009, despite the high unemployment and temporary tax cuts that marked that year.3 This percentage would be even lower if federal excise taxes on gasoline and other items were taken into account.

* Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students, most of whom subsequently become taxpayers. (In a year like 2009, this group also includes a significant number of people who have been unemployed the entire year and cannot find work.)

* Moreover, low-income households as a whole do, in fact, pay federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data show that the poorest fifth of households as a group paid an average of 4 percent of their incomes in federal taxes in 2007 (the latest year for which these data are available), not an insignificant amount given how modest these households’ incomes are — the poorest fifth of households had average income of $18,400 in 2007.4 The next-to-the bottom fifth — those with incomes between $20,500 and $34,300 in 2007 — paid an average of 10 percent of their incomes in federal taxes.

* Even these figures understate low-income households’ total tax burden, because these households also pay substantial state and local taxes. Data from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy show that the poorest fifth of households paid a stunning 12.3 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2010.5

* When all federal, state, and local taxes are taken into account, the bottom fifth of households paid 16.3 percent of their incomes in taxes, on average, in 2010. The second-poorest fifth paid 20.7 percent.6

It also is important to consider who the people are who don’t owe federal income tax in a given year.

* Some 70 percent of people who owe no federal income tax in a given year are low-income working households. These people do pay payroll taxes, as well as federal excise taxes (and, as noted, state and local taxes). Most of these working households also pay federal income tax in other years, when their incomes are higher — which can be seen by looking at the low-income working households that receive the Earned Income Tax Credit (see next bullet).

* The majority of EITC recipients receive the credit for only one or two years at a time, such as when their incomes drop due to a temporary layoff; they pay federal income tax in other years. In fact, EITC recipients pay much more in federal income taxes over time than they receive in EITC benefits. A leading study of this issue found that taxpayers who claimed the EITC at least once during an 18-year period paid a net $473 billion in federal income tax over that period (in 2006 dollars).7 This finding shows that — while in any single year some taxpayers will receive refundable tax credits whose value may exceed their payroll tax liability — EITC recipients as a group pay significant federal income taxes over time in addition to the payroll and state and local taxes they pay each year.

People this is all BS from the right. It is nothing more than another attempt to redistribute more wealth and power to the top 2% and make the other 98% pay for it. The rich get richer and the rest of us get poorer. The rich pay even less than they are paying now and we pay more. The wealthy will have Health Care and be able to send their kids to good schools and colleges, the rest of us will not.

From CNBC.com: The US economy created no jobs and the unemployment rate held steadily high at 9.1 percent in August, fueling concerns that the US is heading for another recession.

Welcome to the new and "improved" America, brought to you by Barry Obama and all the lefty liberals that voted for him. America was, once upon a time, the greatest country in the world. Now it has become a wannabe European socialist welfare state and should be looking to former world powers like Spain, France, and England to see what the future will be like.

This news is one more bit of information that supports my decision (made when the Republican's became no better than spendthrift Dems by passing Medicare Part D) to gradually move my retirement investments out of US and European based stocks to areas in the world that have far better economic growth prospects.

It's really too bad that a talent for reading speeches off a teleprompter couldn't be sold for a profit and the 25 million unemployed and underemployed Americans could all be hired as White House speechwriters.

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear what the teleprompter has to say about the "big new jobs program" next Thursday. Hopefully the good stuff will be frontloaded before kickoff time.

Zero.

What an appropriate number for President Obama.

Another month, another dismal jobs report.

Net jobs created in August? 0. ZERO. NONE. ZIP. NADA. A big goose egg. And 9.1% unemployment isn’t the number Libs. People have just quit looking, that number is much higher. So what are the excuses Obama and his economic team of idiots have this month? Let’s see, earthquake, hurricane, strike by Verizon workers, it was hot some places, and cold others, some people went back to school, others didn’t, and they inherited the problem. And besides, it’s all Rick Perry’s and the Koch brothers fault. Oh, and of course, it’s racism.

A 0 for the O-man. Many would call it draconian.

Yeah, when people vote next year, they’ll certainly want four more years of this nonsense.

Can’t wait for Obama’s speech next week, because speeches create jobs.

How Much Beneath Zero Can the Corporation CEOs Go?

So GOP House Speaker John A. Boehner in a letter Tuesday said that the administration is considering seven regulations that would each cost the U.S. economy more than $1 billion per year.

How ‘bout that report of the 25 corporations which paid more to their CEOs last year than they paid in taxes? Yet debate is raging in Washington about how to bring jobs back, with President Barack Obama to outline a new plan before a joint session of Congress on September 7. But in this country, an alarming number of people are focused on where their next meal will come from.

I hardly think paying "0" nada, zilch, in taxes deserves a tax cut.

They proposed the same date, knowing Boehner would say no. Now we have the scene set, once again the right says no, and others are worried about a football game, while the President is trying to get a jobs bill proposed to help the American people.

GOP how low can you go?

The Tea- bagger sock puppets in Congrees want a financial crisis in this coutry because they want power and greed

Barry is finally facing the sad reality of his election as President: If the majority of voters really want a European style socialist welfare state, then they will be forced to accept the accompanying slow economic growth and high unemployment, just like Europe does. Any low information lefty liberals (Yeah, I know that’s redundant) that thought America could have the best of both worlds: a cake of a vibrant, growing capitalist economy with a thick, rich, sweet, layer of socialist welfare state icing on the top, is now stuck with the FACT that the reality of that dream sucks.

From CNBC.com:

White House Sharply Cuts U.S. Growth Forecast

President Barack Obama Thursday sharply cut estimates for U.S. economic growth, underscoring the difficult challenge he faces in spurring a stronger recovery and creating more jobs.

The president, who must curb high unemployment to improve his chances of winning re-election in 2012, will give a major speech Sept. 8 on how he plans to lift hiring and growth.

"The economic projections make clear there is a real need in the short term to kick start economic growth and get on a sustained higher growth path,'' White House budget chief Jack Lew told Reit Rating.

As a result, it offered an alternative economic forecast based on what has happened in recent weeks. This projects GDP growth this year of 1.7 percent, compared with 2.7 percent expected back in February, with 2.6 percent forecast for 2012, down from a 3.6 percent prediction in February.

The White House review predicted unemployment to average 9.1 percent this year and 9.0 percent in 2012, when Obama faces re-election.

BTW, a wise poster said yesterday: It’s a recession when your neighbor loses their job, it’s a depression when you lose your job, and it’s a recovery when Barack Obama loses his job.

Not everyone is interested in re-litigating the Wednesday calendar chaos.

That's good to hear!

Poor Chuckie Todd sure had his panties is a bunch yesterday...

It was painful to watch... ;o)

Great way to end the week, Navy and Feisty.

• C rying
• O ver
• N onproductive
• S elf-serving
• E cumenical
• R hetoric
• V itriol
• A nd
• T antrums
• I nstead of
• V iable
• E conomic
• S olutions

Compliments of another viner who goes by the name ol docgold...

JoAnnaSmith1

Another month, another dismal jobs report.

And besides, it’s all Rick Perry’s and the Koch brothers fault. Oh, and of course, it’s racism.

Lady Sniff that is precisely right. The job numbers would be even more dismal had it not been for Perry, and the fifthly KOCH money.

How bout this why not have the Koch give theieer money to create jobs and repair hurricane damage Cantor doesn't want to give?

Joanna- I can't wait for the Boehner speech, myself.

Which reminds me- why do I have to wait at all? Can't he get it out there any earlier??

Whatcha think?

JiA: President Barack Obama Thursday sharply cut estimates for U.S. economic growth, underscoring the difficult challenge he faces in spurring a stronger recovery and creating more jobs.

Sure. Obama doesn't rush to excellence, he just lowers the bar and says being mediocre is just fine with him.

America will be a great country again, but not while this goof is President.

Joanna- I can't wait for the Boehner speech, myself.

Me either - in typical John Boehner style, he'll down a 'shot' everytime he says the word(s) TAX CUTS!

If history is any indication - the speech should last all of 4.5 minutes before he passes out cold! lol

I find it a bit strange that when I opened this string, it said that the story was posted "12 minutes ago" but somehow the first posters seemed to have their times listed on their posts about 5 or 6 minutes BEFORE the story was posted. There seems to be an appearance of impropriety or favoritism involved. Moderators -- Want to comment on that?

Feisty

That is a great explanation of the CON job the Gop and Tea-baggers are pulling to re -post.

GOOD on the poster, ol docgold.

Crying is so applicable to BOO-HOO JOHN Boehner, the Grimm Weeper of the House.

Another bad jobs report this morning. Time to ramp up the rhetoric for Congress to pass a "jobs bill." Time to bash those evil Republicans for standing in the way of progress when they oppose it.

No matter that government "created" jobs consume tax dollars that put a further drag on the economy, while the real jobs created in the private sector actually generate the wealth necessary to fuel a sustainable economic expansion. No matter that declining unemployment is typically a LAGGING indicator characteristic of an economy that has already been expanding, so government "created" jobs specifically targeted at lowering unemployment kind of get the relationship with the economy bassackwards.

But Obama and his leftist buds don't care about such realities, they're wedded to the increasingly discredited Keynsian view that government spending spurs economic growth. No matter that almost a trillion dollars in stimulus spending has given us an anemic economy that is barely growing and threatens to stall again. So the world is going to pieces, led by an incompetent president who has been in over his head from day one.

But as Charles Krauthammer points out in his column today, if the impending apocalypse comes during the summer he'll be waiting for it at the ballpark taking in a Nats game. As for myself, I'll be prepping for a glorious Ravens run by watching the Packers-Saints on TV next week. As with millions of others, I'd rather watch the bag of air those folks will be tossing around rather than listening to same in a campaign speech from you-know-who.

Previous Naval Drivel:

President Obama will go down in History as the man that tried to move this country forward. The repubs will go down in History as the ones that moved us backwards, caused the greatest recession since the great depression and caused the Credit Rating down grade and destroyed democracy as we know it.

So you admit that Obama hasn’t moved the country forward. He tried but failed. Obama had the House, the Senate, the Office of the President, the liberal main stream media – he had everything for TWO YEARS – and failed.

Repubs moved us backwards?

Pathetic if you have complete control for 2 years and you can’t accomplish anything. The tea party comes along and in a few months, a few freshmen Congressmen in 1/3 of the government roll Obama and Reid? Pretty funny how weak and effete Barry and Harry are, huh?

Caused the greatest recession since the great depression?

So you admit that Obama’s stimulus has to be considered a complete and epic failure - Obama spent a trillion dollars and we ended up with the “greatest recession since the great depression?”

[BTW – For the record, the actual “recession” peaked in September 2008 and was officially over by June 2009, 6 months into the Obama administration and before he took any meaningful economic intervention, or any action had time to effect. In other words, the actions of Bush and the natural cycles and forces effected the end of the recession. The past 2 years have been a recovery – and yes – the worst recovery since the great depression – by a wide margin. The average recovery lasts 2.3 quarters with no recovery of the last 11, with the exception of Obama’s, exceeding 3 quarters. Obama is at 8 quarters with no improvement in sight.]

Caused the Credit Rating downgrade?

Yea …. And the world markets crashed again when Michelle Bachmann flubbed up Elvis’s b-day.

Destroyed democracy as we know it?

Isn’t democracy supposed to be a representative government where Congress makes law?

Were the tea party / repubs the ones that usurped the democratic process and the will of the American people by installing Cap & Trade through executive fiat using the EPA…..

Were the tea party / repubs the ones that usurped the role of Congress and the will of the American people by installing the Dream Act through executive fiat using the DHS and ICE …….

Were the tea party / repubs the ones that usurped the role of Congress and installed card check by executive fiat through the NLRB …….

Were the tea party / repubs the ones that usurped Congress and the American people to enter us into a war that serves no national security interests …….

Well, zero jobs this month. The liberals have destoyed our economy. They have put this country in a position that only total elimination of regulations that hamper business growth and lower taxes for corporations are going to pull us out of this mess. Our private sector has basically told the Liberals they are not going to operate in this environment they have created and are waiting for the next election hoping these people are voted out of office. We can only pray that this will happen and we can gets some supply side solutions implemented as was done in the 80's to start moving our economy foward again.

Bev:

JoAnnaSmith1

Another month, another dismal jobs report.

Funny how the economy and job market went to hell with the arrival of the 112th Congress. Funny that the tea baggers forget to mention that fact.

The 112th Congress is the worst in American History and responsible for the first "Credit Rating" downgrade in our history. And these people want to control our country again??

Just in 2011 alone the TP/GOP has blocked 4 jobs bills - People it is not President Obama who is holding up America - it is the TP/GOP with their "Obstructionism", "No Compromise" and their new "Hostage" agenda.

This was their goal as vowed by McConnell and the only promise they have kept to date.

Where are the jobs they campaigned on?? Instead we get a tax cut and regulation repealing proposal from them. Nothing that will create jobs now or in the near future.

President Obama 2012

I decided to give the Rev. some time after he became the official MSDNC 6:00 stooge before commenting on his show. It looks like MSDNC has him working with speech therapists so he doesn’t sound so much like the moron that he really is. So far, it is only working for the first five minutes or so. Then he’s right back to his passing acquaintance with the intricacies of the English language. One thing the speech therapists really need to work on is his Elmer Fudd r-w transposition, like “Pwesident Obama”. Before they do that, I’m hoping I get to hear him say:

“Dat Wick Pewwy is one wascaly wabbit”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

There seems to be an appearance of impropriety or favoritism involved. Moderators --

Poor Bennie - you really should of skipped that second helping of paranoid juice this morning... lol

How many times do we have to tell you SLOW & STUPID is NO way to go through life sonny?

Funny how the economy and job market went to hell with the arrival of the 112th Congress. Funny that the tea baggers forget to mention that fact.

Shhh Navy!

The tea baggers NO likey when you remind them of that FACT!

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

The attack on the Middle Class and the Working Poor continues this week

Navy that is typical of the wingnuts on the right. It won't stop this week or next week until fight back and vote these hobbits out.

The GOP War on Voting

In a campaign supported by the Koch brothers, Republicans are working to prevent millions of Democrats from voting next year

Just as Dixiecrats once used poll taxes and literacy tests to bar black Southerners from voting, a new crop of GOP governors and state legislators has passed a series of seemingly disconnected measures that could prevent millions of students, minorities, immigrants, ex-convicts and the elderly from casting ballots. "What has happened this year is the most significant setback to voting rights in this country in a century," says Judith Browne-Dianis, who monitors barriers to voting as co-director of the Advancement Project, a civil rights organization based in Washington, D.C.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830

ALEC Exposed!!!

Through the corporate-funded American Legislative Exchange Council, (ALEC)global corporations and state politicians vote behind closed doors to try to rewrite state laws that govern your rights. These so-called "model bills" reach into almost every area of American life and often directly benefit huge corporations. Through ALEC, corporations have "a VOICE and a VOTE" on specific changes to the law that are then proposed in your state. DO YOU?

Worker and Consumer Rights
Tort Reform and Injured Americans
Privatizing Schools and Higher Ed Policy
Health, Pharmaceuticals and Safety Net Programs
Environment, Energy and Agriculture
Democracy, Voter Rights and Federal Power
Taxes and Budgets
Guns, Prisons, Crime and Immigration

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

============================================================

This is not the United States Abraham Lincoln, Dr Martin L King Jr, civil rights groups, and our brave service men and women gave their lives to for us to be free. Freedom means having the ability to vote.

Navy your post is a great way to put a reminder to people looking for economic justice, freedom and equality.

Navy thinks the GOP jobs plans are all smoke and mirrors? Okay.

Remember one thing- Obama's smoke and mirrors cost trillions- four, in fact, so far- and create no net jobs. In fact, he's still three million in negative territory.

You guys are so far from reality you don't remember what it looked like.

Joe Walsh, Deadbeat Dad of the year. Why isn't this man in jail? It's where he belongs until he pays up his back, and currant, Child Support.

Besides, who cares if he doesn't show up for the Presidents speech? I'm sure the President doesn't.

Think Progress, now there is objective reporting! Don't ever lets the facts get in the way, or the results of the President's failed policies.

Obama's solution, give a lecture....ops I mean speech. It really is time for a President who can lead and unite the nation. All the allienating and agitating certain segments of the population by Obama will not solve the economic problems. We never needed a community agitator in the first place.

Navy Boy: Funny how the economy and job market went to hell with the arrival of the 112th Congress

Too funny. Didn't know you do standup comedy Navy.

You didn't pay much attention during the 111th Congress, did you Navy? The economy was just roaring along with the Pelosi/Reid juggernaut in charge. That Congress set the pattern back then for the economy we're seeing today. You can't see it though because you have all those stars in your eyes when you see Obama. You love him so much, you certainly can't hold him responsible for anything.

Star Struck Navy Boy. Obama's biggest fan.

NB: President Obama 2012

And someone else in 2013.

@Feisty -- I know what I saw and I am able to add and subtract. Making fun of the slow and stupid is unbecoming of a progressive who supports the rights of the physically and mentally handicapped.

I'd like to hear from others who will look at when the story was posted and when the first posts 1,2 & 3 were made and let everyone know if they see the same difference.

Nasty redhead

You and your lefty friends post the same drivel everyday that FR just has to cut and paste yesterdays drivel. There's never anything new from you. Get some new stuff because you look STUPID repeating yourself day after day.

Maybe you could aswer these questions: What do you think of the jobs report today? How about the approval rating of our President? If the 112th Congress is so bad, why did Debbie Schlutz say on MTP that the country has produced over 1 million jobs since the start of the year? She also mentioned that this administration OWNS this economy. Is she proud of that? Or is she just stupid?

That Congress set the pattern back then for the economy we're seeing today

BUT...BUT...BUT...

According to the tea baggers they were sent to congress in record numbers to BREAK the PATTERN...

Or was that just another fib?

Either way; EPIC FAIL!

PS: You really need to think about some time off smiff - your feed bag is slipping... lol

Marr & Highsmith -- a perfect example of "liars figure."

That is all they know. What they can repeat. It is just like a broken record, the same stuff over and over. Just like Obama's failed policies, the same stuff over and over.

Get some new stuff because you look STUPID repeating yourself day after day.

Nah! If it's all the same to you - I'll continue to post what I want, when I want & where I want to!

After all, it's keeps you coming back for more...

Knowing it set the RWNJ's hair on fire is enough for me! ;o)

Since coming to power in January Conservatives have systematically blocked any and all action that would create new jobs. In the statehouses tens of thousands of public workers PER MONTH have been fired, adding to the ranks of the unemployed. Their only idea for creating jobs is to cut taxes for the rich and corporations at a time when the wealthy elites are the ONLY ones gaining in net worth and corporations are sitting on $3T in cash reserves because there is no demand in the marketplace.

The GOPTP program of Laissez-Faire and Supply Side economics has consistently failed through history. It has no answers for a lack of demand.

Judge Joey:

Judge Joe:

Before they do that, I’m hoping I get to hear him say:

“Dat Wick Pewwy is one wascaly wabbit”

Now you've gone and done it, your honor. I loves me some rascally rabbit, but after this, how will I ever look at rabbits the same way again?

Sigh.

On a lighter note, given the dismal jobs numbers, the corresponding dive underway in the market, the prospect of not just one but two big storms hitting the US in the coming week, and the President's dismal forecast for the next few years, we can only hope that he goes BIG next week.

Because anything less is NOT going to cut it.

But I still don't get why all those jobs creators aren't using all those tax breaks they've been given to do their patriotic duty and create some jobs.

Answers, anyone?

Ben lotsa numbers, you know what you saw but you can't figure it out so you accuse the moderators of impropriety. Not so, and some day you'll notice something and go---duh!

US Navey

You wrote; "A Hedge Fund Managers making $2,400,000.00 per hour - which is what it would be same income for a middle class worker earning $50,000 per year for 47 Years - This Hedge fund manager makes it in one hour and since his income is treated as Capital Gains (15%) – They would now pay nothing. Not one penny in Income Taxes".

The Hedge fund managers income as you explained is payroll and subject to payroll taxes, his tax percentage would be much higher than the middle class earner due to the higher amount earned, it dose depend on his W-2 filing. Capital gains are derived from investments with after tax money that have appreciated over time, not the same as employment based income, the investor also risked loosing his money where no tax credit would be give, unless an overall profit was made and then deducted from any gain, never a credit for negative gain/ loss. After the 15% capital gain tax, the remaining amount is added to the total income earned putting those into higher tax brackets, the 15% is in addition to income taxes due.

What time is Obama giving his daily speech today? Looking forward to him telling us about the economy "turning the corner," and about the "green shoots of job growth," and that "much work remains".

It's a good speech. And it's one he has memorized.

Maybe he'll tell us to "eat your peas".

@Jody -- Not every one can figure things out. That's why one asks questions and yes I'm sure even you have one of those "duh" moments. I said "appearance" and did not accuse. I just wonder if the moderators have the guts -- if they are stand-up unbiased individuals -- to explain it to me and dispel the appearance since all the defensive progressives on here can do is attack a person's intelligence andnot answer questions.

If you want good news next Thursday you better be a football fan.

John B.

You're wrong about the public sector workers being fired. They are being laid off because the Obama economy is terrible. Except in Wisconsin, they are retiring in droves to take advantage of their overly gracious retirement. They are leaving this year so they get more money. They really were just there for the kids weren't they?

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit

@ Taxpayer --

And your point? It's still an obscene amount of money, and it's still paid for doing not much but manipulating financial markets. Hedge fund managers do nothing whatsoever to make anyone else's lives better -- except maybe for the manager's own family -- and what they do contributes absolutely nothing to society, if one judges only by the job creation numbers associated with this era of obscene earnings for people who do nothing more than stand next to the stream of commerce and dip their hands in it now and then and pull out a handful of cash. They care little or nothing for how this impacts on anyone else, how many jobs are lost or gained, or the despair that others face. Rather than pay a relatively small amount more in their own taxes, which would affect their lifestyles not one jot, they prefer to argue that Granny and public school teachers should take the hit for them so they can continue on in their obscene obliviousness.

Where on earth is there any worth or nobility in what these people do that somehow says they should not pay taxes.

JH:

Except in Wisconsin, they are retiring in droves to take advantage of their overly gracious retirement. They are leaving this year so they get more money. They really were just there for the kids weren't they?

Your self-righteous smugness and ignorance is amazing to behold.

If only you knew what is REALLY happening in Wisconsin now that all constraints have been removed. I have seen what some of these school districts are doing, and a lot of it has nothing to do with kids, but is merely punitive -- like taking away coffeemakers and microwaves from the teachers' lounge. What on earth does THAT have to do with education, especially when the teachers are the ones who provided those things themselves. Last evening, one of my teacher friends regaled me with stories about what has been happening in his district now that the incompetents have been left in charge.

The people who retired would have taken an immediate $10,000 per year hit in their income, meaning that their average highest earning years for the Wisconsin Retirement System were behind them. There was nothing more financially to be gained by staying and plenty to lose. A private-sector guy like you should admire their savvy in getting out when the time was right, rather than deriding it. That's what any CEO would do, and that's for sure.

What you will find, as time goes on, is that these folks WERE there for the kids, and the Governor most definitely is not.

Now you've gone and done it, your honor. I loves me some rascally rabbit, but after this, how will I ever look at rabbits the same way again?

Sigh.

_________________________________________

Now, THAT'S funny!!!!!!

You and your lefty friends post the same drivel everyday that FR just has to cut and paste yesterdays drivel. There's never anything new from you. Get some new stuff because you look STUPID repeating yourself day after day.

Maybe you could aswer these questions: What do you think of the jobs report today? How about the approval rating of our President? If the 112th Congress is so bad, why did Debbie Schlutz say on MTP that the country has produced over 1 million jobs since the start of the year? She also mentioned that this administration OWNS this economy. Is she proud of that? Or is she just stupid?

When are you goingto get a new rant?? I think it is you who is looking pretty stupid right now.

Yes, President Obama numbers are down into the high 30's. BUT - the TP/GOP controlled House is at 12%. President Obama's approval rating is about 3X that of Congress - Did you forget to mention that.

And what about the 4 job bills that the 112th congress has blocked just this year??

Navy,

Funny how the economy and job market went to hell with the arrival of the 112th Congress

Unemployment rate in:

December 2008 (Bush) - 7.2%

May 2009 - 9.4%

December 2009 - 10.0%

November 2010 - 9.8%

December 2010 (month after the 112th was elected) - 9.4%

January 2011 (112th Congress in session) - 9.0%

February 2011 - 8.9%

March 2011 - 8.8%

The employment rate hit 9.4% in May 2009 under Obama and the Dems.

It was never that low again until the 112th Congress was elected.

Since the 112th has been in session - it has never reached 9.4%.

Are you ignorant, or just a blind, pathetic, political bigot?

As for 'Deadbeat Dad' Joe Walsh......why wasn't his congressional salary garnished?

He's hiding in plain sight.........any other federal employees' salary would have been sliced!

@Anna -- You know what -- it's not your place nor anyone else to tell someone what an obscene amount of money is and disparage how they make it as long as it is legal. You want them to pay more taxes, change the code. Is the a difference between American citizens as to who can and who cannot take advantage of the tax law??? Does one have to feel bad because he or she can afford the est tax attorneys and CPAs to advise them??? Your envy is showing through and green is not a good color for you.

As for 'Deadbeat Dad' Joe Walsh......why wasn't his congressional salary garnished?

That's what I want to know!

I won’t place one more dollar of debt upon the backs of my kids and grandkids unless we structurally reform the way this town spends money!” Rep. Joe Walsh (R) IL

Before getting elected, he had told Laura Walsh that because he was out of work or between jobs, he could not make child support payments. So she was surprised to read in his congressional campaign disclosures that he was earning enough money to loan his campaign $35,000.

⁠“Joe personally loaned his campaign $35,000, which, given that he failed to make any child support payments to Laura because he ‘had no money’ is surprising,” Laura Walsh’s attorneys wrote in a motion filed in December seeking $117,437 in back child support and interest. “Joe has paid himself back at least $14,200 for the loans he gave himself.”

And this scumbag believes he was sent to DC to SAVE the country!!!

vet: Boy do you have it wrong. The attack on the middle class has been from the socialist left. Obama has done everything he can to destroy our system. When you attack every aspect of the private sector and use "stimulus" money as a public union slush fund, it's no wonder jobs aren't being created. Obama has, in his 4 years in office, raised the nations debt from $9 trillion to $16 trillion! It's no wonder the economy is in shambles. Bad economics designed to punish those who create jobs naturally results in stalled economy, nervousness about the future and companies trying to just survive the chaos. This bozo in office actually proclaimed that the way to create jobs is for employers to borrow more money to hire employees! How clueless can you get? It's his reckless spending that has brought down our credit rating, which will end up costing the taxpayers more money to borrow money. Pretty much the same as individuals with lower credit ratings having to pay higher interest rates. I'm sure you think that's "unfair." But, that is the way it works. The riskier the investment, the higher the rate of return. Although the federal government will always be able to pay its bills, the concern of investors is that the money they receive will be worth less because of the spending resulting in inflation. All this is Obama's doing. You wait until next week. It's a certainty that he will propose more of the same. It hasn't worked yet and has never worked before, yet the blind will continue to follow him. If we want to have the same prosperity that we all grew up with, he has to be stopped. It's that simple.

But I still don't get why all those jobs creators aren't using all those tax breaks they've been given to do their patriotic duty and create some jobs.

Answers, anyone?

___________________________________

Because they are scared sh!tless about the future of this country. As they see it move ever closer to being a European social welfare state, they are hoarding cash as a fallback position. Unlike me, the small business owners don't have the luxury of easily moving their assets out of America's slow/no growth economy to more productive growing parts of the world. At the same time they see no reason to put their cash to work in America's slow/no growth economy by investing in new plant and equipment and hiring new employees to run them. Tax breaks are helpful to accelerate business activity when the business owners see some light at the end of the tunnel. When they believe the light is really a socialist welfare state train aimed directly at them, not so much.

Ben: @Anna -- You know what -- it's not your place nor anyone else to tell someone what an obscene amount of money is and disparage how they make it as long as it is legal.

Sure she can. Ya'see, Annie is a Liberal, and therefore she has the right to comment and make statements on things she knows nothing about. It's the right of Liberals to tell people how to run their lives, how much money they should make, where they should live, and what they should do. Annies heart is as big as the moon, and her head is as hollow as a bass drum.

Annie is the typical Liberal.

Bob, the answer to your question is "yes".

They cling to Obama's failed economic policies, while ignoring the longest economic expansion in the history of this nation. Why?

Oh. Well, Reagan ignited it- using economic policies completely at odds with Obama's beloved Keynes.

It's deliberate ignorance of the facts, combined with worship of a failed president who will never succeed because he cannot acknowledge any failure as his own. You cannot learn from your mistakes unless and until you admit that you have, in fact, made them.

Obama never admits any failure is his- he blames others. His predecessor. Acts of nature. Uprisings in other countries.

That there are those who still approve of this immature failure of a president speaks of a delusional mindset. There is no way on this green earth he gets reelected- and they are going to lose everything,because Obama worship is all they've got.

Sad- but not as sad as what they've done to my country.

Taxpayer lotsanumbers:

I do not find any substantiation for your contention that "carried interest" is taxed at any more than the capital gains tax rate of 15%. I cannot state with certainty that you are incorrect. Would you be good enough to direct me to a link that shows carried interest being taxed as earned income? Thank you.

Wow 0 jobs created by the job man again. But wait he's giving another speech and that will employ the handfull it takes to set up all his teleprompters, lol. Yea here he comes dribbling in again, misses a layup, shucks and jives, spits and sputters, reads the telepromptors, shakes his finger at the crowd, lies, lies somemore, then dribbles out as he misses another layup. Mean while fiesty is cramming popcorn, drinking wine straight from the bottle as a warm feeling flows down her leg. Navy is proudly singing Anchors Away. What a great night for the big idiot and all the little idiots. After all he only has a little over a year and several jobs speeches to go. Huh oh, theres this "Fast and Furious" thing could this be the downfall, the Watergate, the Waterloo for the first African American President born from the womb of a caucasian women. Who knows, popcorn please.

Yes, President Obama numbers are down into the high 30's. BUT - the TP/GOP controlled House is at 12%. President Obama's approval rating is about 3X that of Congress - Did you forget to mention that.

________________________________________

Mothballed Navy: That's like being really, really, proud of the fact that you are the parent of the best student at a school for morons (i.e. government).

Is THAT the best you can do to pump up Barry's dismal numbers??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll bet President Obama is glad he didn't allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in January.

We'd have just entered a 3rd consecutive quarter of contraction (as opposed to the anemic levels of growth in the 1st and 2nd quarters) on the way to another recession.

Still might end up there, yet.

There will be no tax increases in the near term, in this economy...regardless of what President Obama says to his base, only one year out from the 2012 election.

Watch what he actually does.

@JAS1 -- If I may steal from others -- kudos. Great post!!! Way to finish the week!!! We are on the same page today (and everyday) ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Trying to figure this out????? Bush's fault, Bush's fault, Bush's fault who lost control of congress in 2006.

112th congress' fault who just took over in Jan. of 2011.

Nobody else to blame in between?!? Really? You are delusional. This is why we will get our asses handed to us again in 2012 just like 2010. Wake up dems/libs.

Hillary 2012 You know I'm right.

Feisty -

Boy, you got them fired up today. I love it. (Giant Smile). Don't let them bother you (though I doubt they do).

By the way ---

Have you noticed that all the new posters with the numbers (#) behind their names appear to be Repugs and T/POTTY posters? Looks like a whole group bought by the Koch Brothers to spill their drivel in to the web site. My what a surprise. LMAO.

@ Ben -- If that's your attitude, then I hope never to hear you, or anyone else out here, tell anyone what a public sector worker or any union member should or should not make or what benefits they should have. It's just not your business, Ben, and when you do that, your own envy is showing.

But you know what, Ben? You may be right. Green may not be a good color for me, after all.

And thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I love it. (Giant Smile).

Thanks Tom!

They don't bother me a bit, in fact what it tells me is they are very afraid of what I have to say... lol

If they weren't they wouldn't continue with the intimidation tactics! ;o)

I feel so special to have my very own pet 'troll gallery'

Have you noticed that all the new posters with the numbers (#)

I have - especially the 'bob's - there's a freakin epidemic! lol

Funny how the economy and job market went to hell with the arrival of the 112th Congress

Really, some loony liberal just posted that "fact".

@ Doug Ponders --

Take a look at the chart on this page:

http://money.cnn.com/

And see what has happened to jobs numbers since the 112th Congress took office. This month, they're down to zero.

What conclusion would you draw from it?

That businesses are uncertain of what to do due to increased regulations (got a chart for that?)and the impending implementation of ACA.

You know, the facts and what people who are actually in business are reporting. Not blame it on people who have been in control of one branch of Congress for less 9 months.

The Tea- bagger sock puppets in Congrees want a financial crisis in this coutry because they want power and greed

LOL Bev Babe.....I keep tellin ya, you've gotta put the glass d!ck down every now and then. It's clouding your good judgement....lmao

Hey! No ebonics today! You're getting better. Keep practicing Babe! ;o)

Hint to the babies daddy – it's NOT President Obama who's the IDIOT!

The level is DISREPECT leveled at the President is truly astonishing!

LOL....Joe's about as insignificant as you Crusty. Yeah right, I'll just bet you're astonished....lol...Let it go Baby and just 'member, big girl panties!

Yes, President Obama numbers are down into the high 30's. BUT - the TP/GOP controlled House is at 12%. President Obama's approval rating is about 3X that of Congress - Did you forget to mention that.

Man, awesome strategy! Liberal Dems running from Mr. Obama' record for fear of losing their jobs!...lol

Freaky Friday strikes again with the Stuck on Stupid, loon crowd!

*popcorn*
*yawns*
*crickets*

The main points I see in all your posts is that

1. Your all very good at vitriolic nasty venomous comments. So much so that I sometimes feel I have to respond in kind and it always makes me feel dirty. However I choke when I want to be apologetic! So much so that I almost posted my info to prove to Feisty I was telling the truth, but then I had a sunday come to Jesus thought and realized how bad that would be!

2. You all feel the incessant need to take money from people who's money it is!

JAS1 Sparky, Ben, njnbnj and the rest of you have a great holiday weekend.

Navy

Call me names and say I look stupid. But why can't you answer my questions? I didn't expect an answer from Nasty but you responded to my post and still can't answer a few simple questions. If you can't find it in some ultra liberal blog you don't have anything to say. Try to think for yourself. Who looks stupid?

1/20/2013 - the end of an error

It is quite alarming that both left and right continue to hold to the fiction that the success of today's economy must be measured against the statistics of the past. Folks, this ain't your Daddy's economy! This is all new to us. The United States is not the center of the universe any longer.

We now have serious manufacturing competition from abroad and we are losing our manufacturing base to low-wage employers outside our borders. We continue to expend vast amounts of BORROWED capital to police the world. (If you give this a moment's thought you will realize that we are actually using capital to destroy assets and wealth. That is utterly anathema to capitalism.) Our education system is in accelerating decline. Our reliance on foreign sources for our energy continues to increase. Our infrastructure is in absolutely horrible shape. We are facing enormous problems and we flatly refuse to face them.

The solutions to those problems and many more are not going to be found in the past. Both Republicans and Democrats are tools of Big Money and Megabuck Monstrocorp - the Republicans marginally more than the Dems. No matter how you cut it, no matter what statistics are trotted out, the indisputable truth is that wealth continues to concentrate in the hands of a very, very few people.

How crazy does this get? Yesterday, Bob numbers, in a show of blinding ignorance, denigrated dams. Hmmph, beavers build dams, he said. The fact is, during the Roosevelt Administration, the four largest public works projects in the history of the world were under construction - at the same time. Those were dams. Private enterprise could not and would not have been able to bring those projects to fruition. We did it. The government! Us! Not the rich. Not private enterprise. US! Oh yeah, beavers build dams.

I point this out because other massive public works projects have also been built at enormous cost to taxpayers. Of course, we have also reaped benefits. We did it. For ourselves, for prosperity, and for our children. Now, in Texas, Rick Perry proposes to sell those public assets to his buddies. That's only one example. Walker in Wisconsin, Kasich in Ohio, Scott in Florida - they'll do the same. Hell, we've already turned prisons into profit centers for private enterprise.

This is the future. We sell our country to the rich for a few pennies. Of course the filthy rich will eventually get even those few pennies. Surely, they aren't going to let us use their roads for free. They will gouge us for water. And on and on and on.

When you get right down to it, the Republicans simply propose to fast-track us to serfdom. The Democrats simply slow the process a bit. Wake up America, what Congress represents is greed.....not you.

"Debt, Downgrade, Delay" has defined the Republican congressional strategy. Republican Leader McConnell has espoused said strategy and crowed it to the press many times over the last 30 months.
Despite that, Barack Obama prevented a full-on Depression.

Despite the Republican party's mission to crash the economy & despite their relentless message of doubt, disdain, denigration and despair: Democrats continue to work to create a good future for ALL Americans.

To all Americans: END THE GOP WAR ON JOBS.

END THE GOP WAR ON OUR RECOVERY.

Anna Molly

YOU are calling someone self righteous and smug?

Why don't you research the Kaukauuna School District in Wisconsin and get back with your report. I know you won't because it tell a story of things turning around for their district because of the changes in the laws. And did you hear about just how much EVERY School District is going to save just because they can now buy insurance from a different source that the UNION insurance company? Governor Walker is the best thing that ever happened to Wisconsin. I can't wait to see how many teachers will continue to send in union dues since they no longer are required to to. What's your guess? I'll bet over 75% will stop.

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit

Doug Ponders:

You know, the facts and what people who are actually in business are reporting. Not blame it on people who have been in control of one branch of Congress for less 9 months.

Too funny. Those same people were trying to take credit for positive numbers even BEFORE they took office, based on the mere fact that they had won.

JH:

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit

You should be so lucky, and chances are, you never will. Just one more misogynist authoritarian to mark for ignore. Already done, in fact.

But before we part company, perhaps you should review this article, which is not just one anecdote snagged from the Governor's press release or lifted from a conservative website, but based on a survey of ALL 424 Wisconsin school districts. This may give you a different view.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_4d0c0d30-cdd7-11e0-93dd-001cc4c03286.html

But if it doesn't, so what? See you later. Or not.

Navy, dont you ever get tired of putting the same misleading, contrived cut and paste propoganda that does nothing to advance the discussion all the time? Fiesty, in our own state, do you have some answer for why our economy run 100% by the democrats with the same policies that Obama has endorsed and put in place nationality is last in the country? Can you explain Quinn's huge corporate tax increase and then $200 million give back to Caterpillar, Sears etc to keep them in state? I dont see you complaining about him like you did at Walker who did the same thing in Wisconsin? So instead of being able to puff out our chest and claim all of these wonderful grand accomplishments from Obama, the new campaign strategy is to blame it on someone else? Each day we see the same thing, its Bush's fault one day, the next day its the Teabaggers, the next day its obstructionist GOP, the next day its because Obama is black, so today its the rich again and Navy railing on tax policy with misleading missing half the facts inconsistent and certainly not accurate most of the time diatribe.

Instead of using this historically failed approach to campaigning as when has blaming others ever won an election, Navy and Fiesty why dont you actually put something on the table that hasnt been cut and pasted from some silly wacko nut job site (your words) in your own words that would be something Obama should run on. Navy it would be good to hear you put forth a tax reform plan for Obama. Fiesty, tell us how Quinn is going to fix Illinois? Anna Molly, instead of telling us whats happening in Wisconsin and blaming it on Walker, explain to us what has happened that wasnt already in the budgets when he took over and what is directly associated with his programs. Give us the number of teachers that went back to work this week directly associated with his new programs? Isnt that the same thing that Obama claims in the stimulus when he gave money to the states to shore up budgets that already called for teacher cuts? Tell us Anna Molly what you would have done differently? If you think balancing the budget with tax increases was the right thing for Wisconsin put that forth we could then compare it to Illinois and see which has worked better?

Come on you progressives, tell us something new but the class warfare punish the successful, lets take money from the 5 hedge fund managers that make too much money but in the meantime lets not talk about the millions of small business owners that would pay more. Lets let Navy talk about all those millionaires that pay 18% tax rates while he forgets to tell you that many of them are seniors (where do you think the wealth is aggregated) who are collecting dividends and interest on their retirement income and pay reduced tax rates. I love the call for the GOP bills when they have introduced hundreds of job bills, just not the kind the democrats want because their job bills are eliminating job killing bills like Obamacare, EPA funding, oil drilling bans, Dodd-Frank, incentives to invest, tort reform (dont want to hurt those trial lawyers right democrats) etc. Tell us what the democrats should have done or what their accomplishments have been to date and how they are going to work instead of blaming others.

Navy, Fiesty the blaming others has only pushed Obama farther and farther in the polls. The new ones are worse and in the electoral states he needs he is running very far behind. Blaming others doesnt work no matter how much you guys keep trying. All it does is bring out your 10 friends to say Nice Post. By the way I havent noticed any growth in the number of posters in here who are part of your group hug--hope thats not a sign of anything.

How government policy affects economic health/ job growth is subject to endless debate, this debate is what keeps me coming back to reading FR comments. One man's progress is another man's poison. Both sides make convincing arguments, passionate pleas, angry attacks. Fascinating.

What I rarely see is any discussion on We, the People's responsibility. The U.S. is way too big for a one-system-fits-all economic solution - what ever policy may in place at the time is just not going to please everyone. It is certainly healthy to debate policy and work to effect change but when it comes down to it I believe it is our responsibility as citizens to make every effort to adapt to policy and conditions as they exist. Recessions are greatly a result of perception and reaction. We can rarely control circumstances and conditions but we can and must control our reaction - a riot being the ultimate breakdown in that control.

I realize this is an exceedingly simplistic statement and I wish I had time to develop my argument more completely. I work in an exceptionally volatile industry that gets punched in the face on a regular basis and the companies that survive are the ones that channel their best energy into adaptation.

TonyC said:

Don't ever lets the facts get in the way, or the results of the President's failed policies.

and

Just like Obama's failed policies, the same stuff over and over.

What's this about over and over...Hmm...intersting. I bet i can find more of that if i scratch the surface.

If that's your attitude, then I hope never to hear you, or anyone else out here, tell anyone what a public sector worker or any union member should or should not make or what benefits they should have. It's just not your business.

__________________________

AM: As long as the public sector worker is being paid with MY tax dollars, I have every right to a say in what they make and and what benefits they get. If they don't like that, they can get a job in the private sector.

BTW, "no comment" on my answer in #1.51??

Fiesty, I have a meeting in Chicago next month, could we get together for a drink or dinner?

I often wondered why all the far left posters on this board were always kissing each others rear ends. I figured it out. They put anyone who actually has a different opinion, usually the right opinion, on their ignore list. So all they ever read is their own talking points over and over again. And you know what they say about lies, you repeat then often enough they become the truth. Don't you guys understand that a mind is a terrible thing to waste?

Anna Molly - you are so wrong about the Wisconsin schools. They are going to really get moving in the right direction with the reforms that are in place. The unions are going to really be hurting when most of the members quit payiny their MANDATORY dues that are now optional. The union insurance company will probably go out of business if they don't lower their rates to a competitive amount. They had a monopoly and were basically stealing from the school districts. Somebody should be arrested for that behavior. It's good to see the changes.

1/20/2013 - the end of an error

@ JH ~

If you look very carefully at the bottom of every collective bargaining AGREEMENT that provided for using WEA Trust insurance, you will find the signatures of union representatives AND school board members.

If there was anything monopolistic about it, then it occurred with the full complicity of elected officials, who had to take a vote in public session to ratify the agreement.

If anyone ought to be in jail for that, then it might be the school board members, wouldn't you agree?

According to Ben, after all, as long as it's legal, people should get paid whatever they can get. Or does that only apply to hedge fund managers?

This is the part that conservatives never get. If they get lousy deals with teachers and other unions, they have only themselves -- and perhaps their elected officials -- to blame.

That's why they call it BARGAINING. If you don't like that, then all you have to do is get a spine.

Because heaven knows you'll need one should you ever get lucky enough to have someone bend over for you.

p.s. I happen to know firsthand that WEA Trust never had a "monopoly" on insurance with school districts, and that there are plans that are also pretty good that school districts do bargain for successfully. This is, and has always been, a solution without a problem.

Like voting rights and oh, so many things that conservatives under the thrall of ALEC have convinced the ignorant need to be changed. Be careful what you wish for, JH.

JH - Anna Molly - you are so wrong about the Wisconsin schools. They are going to really get moving in the right direction with the reforms that are in place

Ohh, JH, that was a personal attack (at least Anna would say so), and now you're probably on her Ignore list. It's a big list too, Annie probably holds the record for having her fingers in ears when it comes to not listening to a dissenting opinion.

mmnord1969

The Tea- bagger sock puppets in Congrees want a financial crisis in this coutry because they want power and greed

mmnord1969
Tell me why those Tea- bagger sock puppets in Congress said they wanted to default on the Country's Credit? Have Republicans and tea-nuts not lost sight of the country's welfare? Of course they have!!!

LOL Bev Babe.....I keep tellin ya, you've gotta put the glass d!ck down every now and then. It's clouding your good judgement....lmao

Glass d!ck? You're a f***ing pervert.

Hey! No ebonics today! You're getting better. Keep practicing Babe! ;o)

You do not know nothing about black sensibility and I thank you very f***ing much Big Boi for your interest. But, since do the funky chicken, what difference would it it make? Your ghostface a@@ would only cut and run from your best interest.

You really need to stay an informed part of this electorate.

Hint to the babies daddy – it's NOT President Obama who's the IDIOT!

No, the idiot is the Republican Congressman Joe Walsh Deadbeat Dad who owes back child support I'm solid on that .

The level is DISREPECT leveled at the President is truly astonishing!

LOL....Joe's about as insignificant as you Crusty. Yeah right, I'll just bet you're astonished....lol...Let it go Baby and just 'member, big girl panties!

Leave it to the lynch mob to show DISREPECT and be so ignorant as to not know whateverr they do it's not working for their color arousal and this country.

So now, Get the "H" out of here and learn something!

Anna

You just spelled it out perfectly. The collective bargaining was being done by a group who really didn't care how much tax money they gave away as long as the union members kept filling the campaign coffers of their elected officials. The insurance company that was required to be used by the school districts was owned by the union and their rates were sky high compared with outside companies. I know you are blinded by the color blue but you must be able to see how wrong that was. And you still haven't given me your best guess on the percentage of teachers who will quit paying dues now that it isn't mandatory. What do think? 20%, 40% 60%, 80%? I'm going with at least 75%. It's a good thing.

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit

Fiesty, I have a meeting in Chicago next month, could we get together for a drink or dinner?

_____________________________________

Looks like the Nasty Redhaed has a groupie.

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit

_____________________________

When MSDNC started using that line in their advetising, I knew it sounded familiar, but, I couldn't figure out why.

I just made an appointment for my annual physical and it hit me!!!!

That's what my doctor says seconds before he does my prostate exam.

OUCH!!!!

Joe

MSNBC is full of crap and I thought that is why they picked that phrase. They have all their followers LEAN FORWARD so they can retrieve more crap to spew. The phrase fits them very well. But don't tell them because I would hate to see them come up with a new one. This one is too much fun.

Please STAND BACK everyone, I see something that may collapse. I don't want to see anyone get hurt.

Ben-636050

@Jody -- Not every one can figure things out. That's why one asks questions and yes I'm sure even you have one of those "duh" moments. I said "appearance" and did not accuse. I just wonder if the moderators have the guts -- if they are stand-up unbiased individuals -- to explain it to me and dispel the appearance since all the defensive progressives on here can do is attack a person's intelligence andnot answer questions.

Boy is that EVER a loaded comment. Ben, we've been telling you for a long time now that you don't seem able to figure things out.

When you do,...it's going to be hysterical. But since you haven't for over a year now,...me thinks you never will. What is that line from the movie, The Princess Bride, "Get used to disappointment".

PS. The moderators never gave US info. In fact, it seems they have been pretty impressed with a number of things we've managed to figure out. I bet you're a real hoot in business, too? I mean why won't Steve Jobs tell you how he built that platform? What IS that secret sauce, anyway? How do you return to the 'gold standard'? LMAO. sorry if this is so snarky; but you seriously struck my funny bone today.

BTW, "no comment" on my answer in #1.51??

_____________________________________

AM: Do I have to find you in contempt of court and throw you in jail to get an answer?

Joe:

AM: As long as the public sector worker is being paid with MY tax dollars, I have every right to a say in what they make and and what benefits they get. If they don't like that, they can get a job in the private sector.

Well, then, Joe, get thee to a local school board and SAY something about it. Use the power that you already have, instead of whining about it. By the way, MY tax money goes for their wages, too, but I happen to think that people have a right to earn a decent wage and be treated with dignity, regardless of whether they are public employees, and I'm prepared to pay taxes to support that.

BTW, "no comment" on my answer in #1.51??

Sure, but I just sighed to myself and skipped over it because we would never agree about it. It's just the same old "uncertainty" argument versus my response that unless someone gets off the dime and spends some money there will be no demand created, and therefore no jobs.

It's hard to keep going over this same old ground because I don't know what more conservatives want -- the President is bending over backwards for you. It's just as good as having a Republican president, from your perspective. So why don't you take advantage of that to start making some money? Or wait, maybe you've figured out how to make the money without creating any jobs, and jobs aren't really your ultimate goal.

Yeah, I figured that one out already.

AM: Do I have to find you in contempt of court and throw you in jail to get an answer?

Does it involve handcuffs? If so, then yes. ;-)

Judge Joe:

Looks like the Nasty Redhaed has a groupie.

Sounds like someone is jealous. ;-)

enjoy your labor day weekend everybody. I sorry that the prez had such bad news before his speech and that the late night talk show host were making fun of both Boehner and the prez.

I also find it humerous how feisty calls out the right wing whinners as she whines, but it makes me laugh so I will enjoy the show. One day you will realize that a great leader can overcome party differences and get results and your blaming the other party is just another way of saying he is NOT an effective leader. Do not take it so hard, Bush was not a great leader either.

The sad thing about it all, our choice of President is a reflection of our "nation's emotional state". People were mad at the state of the nation and we voted Obama in; will the same happen to him???

Bev, Feisty, US navy... have a great weekend;o))

It's just the same old "uncertainty" argument versus my response that unless someone gets off the dime and spends some money there will be no demand created, and therefore no jobs.

_____________________________________

So, maybe if the "uncertainty" (Dem anti-business philosophy) is eliminated........ well, you can fill in the rest of the sentence.

Does it involve handcuffs? If so, then yes. ;-)

Yes. And leather, too!!!

Everyone posting to Navy should remember he has never had to think for himself, the Navy told him what to do up until he retired and now fisty with the red hair tells what to and what not to post. So don't blame him just feed him peanuts.

Got an email today that pretty much sums up the journalistic integrity of the First Read Authors

A Harley biker is riding by the zoo in Washington , DC when he sees a little girl leaning into the lion's cage. Suddenly, the lion grabs her
by the cuff of her jacket and tries to pull her inside to slaughter her, under the eyes of her screaming parents.

The biker jumps off his Harley, runs to the cage and hits the lion square on the nose with a powerful punch.

Whimpering from the pain the lion jumps back letting go of the girl, and the biker brings her to her terrified parents, who thank him endlessly.
A reporter has watched the whole event.

The reporter addressing the Harley rider says, 'Sir, this was the most gallant and brave thing I've seen a man do in my whole life.

The Harley rider replies, 'Why, it was nothing, really, the lion was behind bars. I just saw this little kid in danger and acted as I felt right.'

The reporter says, 'Well, I'll make sure this won't go unnoticed. I'm a journalist, you know, and tomorrow's paper will have this story on the
front page.. So, what do you do for a living and what political affiliation do you have?'

The biker replies, 'I'm a U.S. Marine and a Republican.'

The journalist leaves.

The following morning the biker buys the paper to see if it indeed brings news of his actions, and reads, on the front page:

U.S. MARINE ASSAULTS AFRICAN IMMIGRANT AND STEALS HIS LUNCH

That pretty much sums up the media's approach to the news these days.

Ben-636050

I find it a bit strange that when I opened this string, it said that the story was posted "12 minutes ago" but somehow the first posters seemed to have their times listed on their posts about 5 or 6 minutes BEFORE the story was posted. There seems to be an appearance of impropriety or favoritism involved. Moderators -- Want to comment on that?

Ben, haven't you figured this out yet? Feisty and US Navy are aliases of the First Read Authors, Carrie Dann, Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Brooke Brower....or it's possible one of them may be Plouf, the Moveon.org guy...or someone from ThinkProgress advertising their writing.

That's why their posts have zero credibility.

Feisty, I applaud Joe Walsh's decision to go talk to the people rather than attend another useless campaign speech given by Obama. After all, he was elected by the people to represent what they wanted, not what Obama wants.

...and do you really want to get into criticizing the personal lives of Illinois politicians? It would be hard to pick which Democrat to start with.....Jesse Jackson, Jesse Jackson Jr, Blagojovich, Schakowsky, Bobby Rush, Roland Burris, Dan Rostenkowski....I could keep going.

Joe, you could keep going; but none of the names you have listed are currently in office,...(okay, Jr is serving in the State House - but other than that,...)

Relevancy Fail.

PS. Feisty is really Rachel Maddow,...

You're wrong about the public sector workers being fired. They are being laid off

However you want to spin it. Our Tea Party governor closed 37 Workforce Development offices and all those folks are out of a job. The state parks normally hire 3,000 seasonal employees, this year it was 300. Teaching positions were eliminated all over the state. The same thing is going on in states all over the union where the legislature and/or governor's mansion are controlled by Republicans.

Those are all people who now have little or no money to spend, and the result is a slowing economy. The failed Republican economic agenda that brought us the Great Recession in 2007 continues to hinder our progress. Conservatives try to minimize that with the belittling retort "you claim it's all Bush's fault." As with most distortions there's a grain of truth...GW Bush was President when the crash came.

Beyond that it's just one more symptom of how the whole Conservative Movement is to blame.

John B.

The crash came in 2008. Who controlled Congress in 2008? Spin it all you want. Congress controls the economy in this country. You lefties lied for eight years about the damage that bush was doing. You claimed that if we elected dems in 2007 they would fix everything. Instead they ruined everything. This administration is a total failure as well as the democrats in Congress. We need the shellacking to continue in 2012. And I'm betting it will.

The left always blames someone else. But the proof is in the facts. This country didn't fall apart until 2008 when the dems were in control.

John B:

The same thing is going on in states all over the union where the legislature and/or governor's mansion are controlled by Republicans.

Yes, indeed. It's going on here, too. We lost 3,400 public sector jobs in June, notwithstanding Scott Walker's promise that if only the public workers caved in to his demands, those jobs would be saved.

According to a survey of all Wisconsin schools, the vast majority will be working with leaner staffs this fall, despite the governor's promises that this would not happen if only the school administrator were given the "tools" they needed to take care of all problems. What I hear is that they are not exactly competent in wielding those tools, yielding Keystone Cop results in many cases.

And of course, the current fixes are merely one-time fixes. Many school officials foresee that they will be right back in duck soup next year and the year after that and the year after that.

It's sort of a Rick Perry band-aid type solution that wrecks everything at once without fixing anything, and just comes back again tomorrow.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_4d0c0d30-cdd7-11e0-93dd-001cc4c03286.html

After losing all those public sector jobs in June, we gained about the same number of public sector jobs back in July, mostly because thousands of teachers and other public workers retired rather than work another day under the yoke of our new plantation owner governor.

So that's a sum zero number, even considering all the attrition.

And despite all the hype from our governor based on one month's results, the average number of jobs "created" in this tourist state for each of the past THREE months -- the summer tourist season -- has been 700 -- 700 jobs per month, most of which are probably seasonal, low-paying, no benefits jobs.

Our unemployment rate has ticked up .3 percent during that same time period from 7.5 to 7.8 percent.

In July alone, we lost 12,500 PRIVATE SECTOR jobs, despite Walker's alleged focus on creating private sector jobs. That's what all these "shared sacrifices" were supposed to be all about. After taking credit for the seasonal jobs created in June, Walker predictably refused to take any blame for the offsetting losses in July, shifting the blame for that to economic uncertainty.

And despite all the evidence of their eyes, the ignorant, like JH and some others out here, continue to buy into the demonization rhetoric. You'd think that they'd wise up eventually, but it does support the theory that you can fool some of the people all of the time.

Then you're admitting it's the Republican's fault the economy slowed beginning shortly after they took over the House of Representatives and a whole group of statehouses in January.

It's most entertaining to watch the Conservatives on this thread try to wriggle out from under this one. All up and down the page FR Cons are proclaiming the bad economy to be Barack Obama's fault. Now that I point the finger at Republicans you want it to be the fault of a Democratic Congress when the recession began.

Conservatism isn't about consistency of thought or principle, it's just a series of independent messages designed to sell policies beneficial to the wealthy elites.

As yourself who's being consistent here; Liberals, tracing trouble in the American economy all the way back to the rise of Supply Side economics in 1980 with echoes in the Great Depression and panics of the 1890s, or Conservatives who want it to be the fault of Congress when it's controlled by Democrats, the President when he's a Democrat.

mixed bag: Actually, the spin will be that he "regrets not raising taxes. If he'd raised taxes then more people would have been hired!" Don't ask for the logic of that, it's just the spin that they will put on it and the clueless libs will eat it up.

So, witchrunner, I'm one of those clueless libs, and I could benefit from your obviously superior wisdom and understanding.

If higher taxes are not the answer, then how did we get where we are with tax rates the lowest they've been in 50 years?

And if your answer is deficit spending, then please address the relationship of where we are to the unfunded prescription drug program, the unfunded tax cuts during the Bush administration, the two unfunded wars, and the raid on the Social Security trust fund that were all a part of the "low tax" strategy.

Also, please address why the stimulus program did not create more jobs when almost 40 percent of it went to tax breaks and another 30 percent was earmarked for actual job creation.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/candidatesandtheeconomy/a/Obama_Stimulus.htm

And if you don't mind, explain exactly the mechanism by which tax cuts create jobs and give me at least two historical examples, with appropriate citations, where tax cuts have in fact actually created jobs.

And also explain, if you can, how the spending cuts of 1937 impacted the recovery from the Great Depression.

I REALLY could use your help, witchrunner, because I'm such a confused liberal.

I see a lot of posts on here blaming the President, or congress for making "thousands of laws" that get in the way of business. Would these be the same laws that allowed for record profits? Or are these the laws that provide for CEO's of major corporations making 325x what the average worker makes? Are you talking about the laws that allow huge corporations to avoid paying taxes and provide huge tax refunds? Are we talking about the laws that allow corporations to move their profits off shore to avoid paying taxes in the USA while corporations "defer" these tax payments indefinitely?

"Among the 25 companies that rewarded their leadership while dodging the U.S. Treasury were Boeing, Coca Cola, Dow Chemical, eBay, Ford, General Electric, Honeywell, Motorola, Stanley Black & Decker and Verizon. Eighteen of the 25 firms operated subsidiaries in offshore tax haven jurisdictions.

The average paid to the 25 leaders was $16.7 million. John Lundgren, the CEO of Stanley Black & Decker, took home $32.6 million while his company claimed a net loss and did not pay corporate income taxes."

20 of these corporations paid more in lobbying than they did in taxes.
And yes, they lobbied both parties!

So, if they have large amounts of money off shore, can afford to pay CEO's record high salaries and incentives and have millions of dollars for lobbying, where are the jobs? If you eliminate taxes and regulations then what? More CEO pay? more lobbying? What would happen if the corporations really were concerned about this country? hey, they might create jobs - hire people - and increase their consumer bases.

It's a matter of simple greed. And don't tell me they made the money because they were hard working. I know hundreds of hard working people who simply work and pay bills and have no money for discretionary spending.

It's really amazing that people of lower and middle-lower economic status continue to make the ultimate sacrifice for our country through the armed forces, yet major corporations refuse to do their share to support this country. They are thinking short-term self centered profit and not long term growth which would help boost the economy, create a customer base and ultimately increase their own profits.

Bryan, The President's polices have failed.....look at the data on the economy.......merits repeating......

Too funny. Those same people were trying to take credit for positive numbers even BEFORE they took office, based on the mere fact that they had won.

Are you kidding? You are a joke! A poison on rational thought process. I would say you are 1 SFB but that would be rude.

Little wonder the nation can't move forward. We actually have stupid people like AM that are allowed to vote.

anna molly: It's really quite simple to understand. First of all, here is a link for wikipedia which has an explanation of the bill with cites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

In reading that, you get towards the bottom where there is a breakdown of the tax breaks and spending.

You can see that there were $288 billion in tax "incentives." Of that, $237 billion went to individuals. None of these encourage the creation of jobs and all of them merely transfer money around. There was no wealth creating incentives there. Assuming a balanced budget, then all it did was take money out of the hands of some and gave it to others. Of course, we know that all of that money was borrowed, thus increasing the federal debt.

That left $51 billion classified and incentives for businesses. Of these, $11 billion was a wash. It just prevented the government from collecting 3% from government contractors under some law scheduled to go into effect in 2012. No hiring incentive there. Another $15 billion is considered to come from extending the look back period for income averaging to 5 years for businesses who have been experiencing losses. No incentive to hire there. $13 billion to extend tax credits for renewable energy. All this does is try to encourage to by something they wouldn't otherwise buy, in effect, trying to divert money from what a business would ordinarily spend its money on to something that it wouldn't ordinarily spend its money on. No hiring incentive there. The $7 billion is like the $11 billion mentioned before. No hiring incentive there. The final one, the $5 billion for increased depreciation deduction, is the only item that might encourage a company to spend more money than it otherwise might, because it can get a corresponding deduction. But, this is very limited and doesn't amount to but a drop in the bucket. There is no real hiring incentive here because no single business will be able to claim that its business will increase to such an extent that more employees would be required.

On the spending side, I could go through the same process. There is nothing there that is really going to increase jobs. If a business was fortunate to get one of the infrastructure improvement contracts, they would most likely try to do with the people they have. If they needed to hire people, it would only be temporary, until the project is done, because this is not a permanent increase in business activity. If you haven't heard it before, this is a great example of how government doesn't create any wealth. There is no new and improved product that will result in continuing growth that is created through these spending projects.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what a waste this stimulus bill was and how it did nothing to "create" jobs. Absolutely nothing in this was "permanent." So no permanent new jobs were created. Plus, if you are an employer, you know that, with all the talk by the dems of raising taxes, you have be be prepared to whether that. If you want to survive in business, you have to have the cash to pay the bills. If you are anticipating your taxes going up, yet no discernible increase in economic activity, you will naturally save your cash to pay the increased taxes and try to survive the terrible economy.

That's the long and short of it. Hopefully, you are now more educated. If you've taken economics classes and your professors haven't explained this to you, you might want to consider trying to get your money back, you deserve it for such a poor education.

Anna Molly - your wrong.

"Compared to a year ago, private sector jobs increased by 42,400 seasonally adjusted. Without seasonal adjustment, private sector jobs increased by 51,900 from May to June, and by 42,200 year-to-year."

From the Department of Workforce Development in Wisconsin.

http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/newsreleases/2011/unemployment/110721_june_state.pdf

In Wisconsin, Federal, State and Local Government has cut 4,700 jobs. You are correct that your unemployment percentage did go up slightly, but it's down 0.7% from June last year. I know you hate it...but Wisconsin is showing positive signs of job growth...in fact, I think they are in the top five states in the country in new jobs.

By the way, these numbers are concurred by the Department of Labor.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.htm

Now take a liberal State...like Illinois. Illinois is down jobs...and losing more daily. Do some state by state research John and Anna and you'll see it's the liberal states that are failing faster.

Every day Tony C shows up to brand 26 months of GDP growth as "failure" and "economic collapse."

Imagine how much better the numbers would be had the GOPTP not blocked 400 bills in the last Senate, and 4 different job creation initiatives just this year.

The Conservative war on the middle class continues.

feisty,

"The level is DISREPECT leveled at the President is truly astonishing!"

Disrespect for our president?! You gotta be kidding. This guy is the lamest president since Herbert Hoover. But I know you'll blame everyone else (especially Bush) for all the ills this country is suffering from today. You will also say that this presidents' policies are not affecting this country even though he has been in office for over two and one-half years. And I assume you will also blame anyone who opposes the democratic party line, no matter how minor the issue.

I'll also but you can read braille.

John, by any measure the GDP growth you point to dismal. The economy is not recovering. Housing is not recovering. Job growth is not recovering. You can paint this any way you like and mis-represent facts all day long. Obama continues to push blame on whoever or whatever will fly. At the moment it is Congress. An easy target. If Obama spent as much time developing solution by encouraging people to work together instead of finding new excuses and placing blame, things would be a lot better. Obama's constant agitation and attacks just tend to allienate and drive people further apart. That is what has happened and will continue as long as he continues to make someone or some group the villian. This is a total lack of leadership ability. By the way we have now experienced 32 months of economic stagnation, with the trends not so good. Deny it and make excuses, that What Obama does, and it won't work for him either. Obama's government solutions have not worked and will not work.

Yes, GDP growth is weak...so why have Republicans blocked 4 job creation bills this year? Why did they block tax breaks for small business? Why do they prevent an end to tax breaks for offshoring jobs? Why do they protect the rampant oil speculation that's been such a drag on our economy? Why are they working so hard to soften the economy by eliminating tens of thousands of government jobs per month? It's hard enough to bring the economy back from what was very nearly a second Great Depression without an opposition party doing EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to make things worse.

Actually, You described Obama's policies quite well in terms of results. You seem to not believe there is a difference in what people believe will create jobs. You brought this up before. Also, most small business owners would tell you those proosals would have done nothing. Again, short term government "sugar" highs will not create long term jobs. Just like you cannot legislate prosperty. Obama seems to think you can.

We've been through this before, but as a Conservative schill you failed to answer those positions previously and now have conveniently developed amnesia regarding the prior conversations. Government spending isn't intended to create prosperity by itself. On one level it's intended to be the kind of long term investment required to support a modern society. That covers a variety of things ranging from public education to courts and police, and includes infrastructure such as highways, public buildings, flood control, parks, and a myriad of other things.

Weak economic times are ideal for temporary increases in that spending, because it puts people on the job when the private sector is having trouble doing so. By that mechanism people have money to spend in the economy who otherwise would not, and as such helps build momentum toward recovery. It's a short term mechanism to build demand to a level at which the private economy will begin to respond, a mechanism which has been repeatedly proven over the last 75 years.

Meanwhile the Conservative program is to give further tax breaks to businesses that are sitting on $3T in cash because the low level of demand doesn't demand further investment (and of course their wealthy investors as well), and deregulate industries that aren't hindered by the current level of regulation as shown by their record profits...even in a weak economy.

That's a program that failed to produce a robust economy in the last period of expansion, allowed egregious though thanks to deregulation legal abuses of the financial system, and resulted in one of the greatest economic collapses in American history.

Conservative Republicans, you see, also seem to think you can legislate prosperity. The difference is they only intend for that prosperity to fall upon the wealthy elites while the middle class stagnates and withers.

Government spending will never create prosperity. The tax code, both for individuals and corporations need to be reformed. All the political nonsense is just that. Businesses are not going to invest due to all the uncertainty created by this administration. Regardless of what you believe the uncertainty is due to the regulatory issues on the table and actions taken by these agencies as well as all the other less than business friendly statements coming from the White House. Your premise is incorrect. It is in businesses and wealthy investors best interest for everyone to have as much disposable income as possible. The policies of this administration have failed. That is the bottom line.

A Conservative lie, plain and simple;

McClatchy reached out to owners of small businesses, many of them mom-and-pop operations, to find out whether they indeed were being choked by regulation, whether uncertainty over taxes affected their hiring plans and whether the health care overhaul was helping or hurting their business.

Their response was surprising.

None of the business owners complained about regulation in their particular industries, and most seemed to welcome it. Some pointed to the lack of regulation in mortgage lending as a principal cause of the financial crisis that brought about the Great Recession of 2007-09 and its grim aftermath.

Wolfson's firm is readying to open a Hampton Inn this year in Miami on land purchased from a condo developer during the housing downturn. His business could be in line for higher taxes if President Barack Obama allows the current, lower rates on the richest Americans to expire in 2012 and return to previous levels.

That didn't seem to bother Wolfson, who through his partnership declares profit and loss as a pass-through on his personal income taxes, as many small businesses do.

"Higher taxes are not good for business, but some of the loopholes and deductions should be looked at," he said.

The answer from Rick Douglas — the owner of Minit Maids, a cleaning service with 17 employees in Charlotte, N.C. — was more blunt.

"I think the rich have to be taxed, sorry," Douglas said. He added that he isn't facing a sea of new regulations but that he does struggle with an old issue, workers' compensation claims.

Douglas told The Charlotte Observer that he's hired more workers this year, citing pent-up demand from customers.

"My theory is that the people that do have jobs are working harder and they have less time to clean. People were holding back for such a long time, and then they started spending a little more," he said.

Then there's Rip Daniels. He owns four businesses in Gulfport, Miss.: real estate ventures, a radio station and a boutique hotel/bistro. He said his problem wasn't regulation.

"Absolutely, positively not. What is choking my business is insurance. What's choking all business is insurance. You cannot go into business, any business — small business or large business — unless you can afford insurance," he told Biloxi's Sun Herald.

Since 2008, Daniels has opened one business and expanded another, hiring as many as 15 people thanks to lower labor costs and an abundance of overqualified job candidates. He credits the federal stimulus effort with helping to keep some smaller firms afloat.

"It allowed those folks to spend and have money and pay for the essentials," said Daniels, whose business pays corporate taxes. He grudgingly supports closing some business tax deductions to reduce the federal budget deficit.

"Who wants to pay more? I certainly don't. I want to pay my fair share, and I do," Daniels said, adding that he wouldn't resist loophole closures to cut deficits.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html#ixzz1WwdPQdyo

And:

Other small firms say their problem is simply a lack of customers.

"I think the business climate is so shaky that I would not want to undergo any expansion or outlay capital," said Andy Weingarten, who owns Almar Auto Repair in Charlotte. He's thinking about hiring one more mechanic.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html#ixzz1WweJlPiK

You've memorized all the Conservative talking points, but you can't refute the facts. If regulation were killing business they would be devoid of profit. Far from it, many businesses are reporting RECORD profits in the midst of a slow economy. Economists everywhere say it's lack of demand. You have little choice but to deny that because the GOPTP has no solution for lack of demand.

You were right about one thing, all the political nonsense is just that. It's time for Republicans to stop the obstruction and start doing what's needed for the American people.

Uncertainty in the near and long term is the issue. Business is in business to make a profit. No one should have to apologize for creating wealth. The problems in Washington are not one sided. The Democrats do an excellent job of painting it that way. Exaggerations and mis-information are supported by the mostly liberal press. Lack of demand is a symptom, not the cause. The cure is to allow the free entrprise system to work on all cyclinders, something the Obama administration is not going to do. It will be their downfall. Again, this boils down to a President who cannot lead. The examples of his poor leadership are throughout his 32 months in office.

The private sector is the engine of growth. Looks like the first opportunity for that to happen is 16 months away. We need a President who can create optimism and that can separate the "person" from the problems. Conflict is a shared problem that a leader can conquor working together with people without placing blame. Obama proves he can't lead in every lecture.....ops..speech he makes.

No one asked anyone to apologize for creating wealth. That's yet another in your unending series of empty Conservative talking points.

The rest of your argument is simply nonsensical. Management is PAID to ANTICIPATE, MANAGE, AND ADAPT TO uncertainty. The "uncertainty" argument is yet another excuse Conservatives make in order to funnel still more middle class wealth to the already rich elites in their unending war on the average American. Capitalism is BY DEFINITION a system by which people are rewarded with profit for taking risks.

The problem is that the "certainty" language reveals what the real game is, which is certainty in top executive pay at the expense of the health of the enterprise, and ultimately, the economy as a whole. Cutting costs is as easy way to produce profits, since the certainty of a good return on your "investment" is high. By contrast, doing what capitalists of legend are supposed to do, find ways to serve customer better by producing better or novel products, is much harder and involves taking real chances and dealing with very real odds of disappointing results. Even though we like to celebrate Apple, all too many companies have shunned that path of finding other easier ways to burnish their bottom lines. and it has become even more extreme. Companies have managed to achieve record profits in a verging-on-recession setting.

Indeed, the bigger problem they face is that they have played their cost-focused business paradigm out. You can't grow an economy on cost cutting unless you have offsetting factors in play, such as an export led growth strategy, or an ever rising fiscal deficit, or a falling household saving rate that has not yet reached zero, or some basis for an investment spending boom. But if you go down the list, and check off each item for the US, you will see they have exhausted the possibilities. The only one that could in theory operate is having consumers go back on a borrowing spree. But with unemployment as high as it is and many families desperately trying to recover from losses in the biggest item on their personal balance sheet, their home, that seems highly unlikely. Game over for the cost cutting strategy.

And contrary to their assertions, just as they've managed to pursue self-limiting, risk avoidant corporate strategies on a large scale, so too have they sought to use government and regulation to shield themselves from risk.

Businesses have had at least 25 to 30 years near complete certainty -- certainty that they will pay lower and lower taxes, that they' will face less and less regulation, that they can outsource to their hearts' content (which when it does produce savings, comes at a loss of control, increased business system rigidity, and loss of critical know how). They have also been certain that unions will be weak to powerless, that states and municipalities will give them huge subsidies to relocate, that boards of directors will put top executives on the up escalator for more and more compensation because director pay benefits from this cozy collusion, that the financial markets will always look to short term earnings no matter how dodgy the accounting, that the accounting firms will provide plenty of cover, that the SEC will never investigate anything more serious than insider trading (Enron being the exception that proved the rule).

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/08/14/business_certainty

Lack of demand is AT LEAST as much a cause as it is a symptom. It is certainly a symptom of the corporatist approach. It is a symptom of years of cost-cutting in which wages have been driven down in a never-ending quest for short term increases in profit. That's EXACTLY the outcome alluded to in the link above, one in which a large number of operations doing what they perceive to be good for themselves end up hurting the larger society.

Now what HAD BEEN a failure of Conservative policy and short-termism in the corporate world, a stagnating middle class, has become the problem that keeps us from moving forward. Average Americans don't have money in their pockets. They can't buy at the level they could before. Had wages over the last 3 decades followed their historical pattern of advancing at the same rate as productivity the median wage would now be over $90,000/year. How much more demand would their be in the economy if the average family had an additional $40,000 to spend each year? How many more movie tickets, meals out, family vacations, cars, living room sets, major appliance...the list is endless, would be sold if not for the misguided, ridiculous, radical, Ayn Rand inspired Conservatism that has done serious, long-term damage to the American economy? How many more Americans would be looking forward to a comfortable retirement?

Conservative, Supply Side economics, by impoverishing the middle class which once was the engine of the world's most powerful economy, has slowed the economy of the world. Nice going.

Here’s the bright and shiny development for Obama:

Despite the weak employment growth, the jobless rate is expected to have held steady at 9.1 percent as more people gave up the job hunt and dropped out of the official labor force.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/slumping-u-confidence-likely-curbed-august-hiring-040159335.html

Something for Obama to campaign on. He can say “I kept the jobless rate at 9.1% because people got so discouraged, they just stopped looking.”

Excellent plan Mr. President. A true winner. But also, make sure you also blame others. You're just so good at doing so.

I wonder if you realize that repeating the same thing, over and over, that republicans blocked all Obama's really good plans for the economy, just makes you look delusional?

The Omnibus spending bill of 2009- with it's nine thousand plus earmarks- PASSED.

The Stimulous bill- all $840billion dollars of it, with a couple billion going to companies that have since either declared bankruptcy, or moved their manufacturing to China- PASSED.

The HCR- with its related job creation costs, PASSED.

Do you, honestly, think that the American people do not know it? Do you think you can somehow convince them that these things, with the or attendant costs of four trillion dollars added to the debt, are figments of their fertile imaginations?

How did that work out last November?

Here is reality- there were NO net jobs created in August. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. In addition, it seems their math was a little off for June and July- those already weak numbers were revised DOWN by 57,000.

All of Obama's juvenile, ill- conceived economic policies have failed. Every. Single. One.

The president, (whoever is president), gets the BLS numbers before the public. Now do you understand the childish move to release to the public the date for "The Speech" before coming to an agreement with the Speaker?

It's all he's got.

Obama will propose more of the same policies that have been completely ineffective to date, by cleverly renaming them. "Investment in infrastructure" will replace "shovel ready jobs". He's not actually bothering to rename "rebuilding our schools"- he's recycling that one because he believes we are too darn dumb to remember that it was a part of the original stimulous package.

"Investment" replaces stimulous, as unity of purpose has replaced hope for change.

It's all baloney- and no one is buying.

He's failed. He could not hope to succeed, since he stubbornly insisted on implementing failed economic policies. Obama insists that he has mystical powers that will make a square wheel roll.

He can't, and the best thing he could do for this country is to admit his failure, and resign.

That will probably not happen until elephants roost in trees, but he will get unceremoniously booted from office next November. The wife should start packing.

Obama shelved in 2012.

The race card does not work. Obama's failures are not related to his skin color- but to his stubborn insistence on relying on economic policies are have been proven to fail whenever they are implemented.

Get real.

He's lost the support of the very people who put him in office. Not the democrats, not the republicans, but the independents. Telling them that noticing Obama's failures renders them racists will earn you the same reaction as Navy's insistence that none of Obama's really good plans got implemented- incredulity.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over in the expectation of a different result. I am going to add that the definition of delusional is believing that the results are different from what the facts show the result to be.

I guess the mystery is solved- Obama is insane, and his worshippers are just plain crazy.

I guess the mystery is solved- Obama is insane, and his worshippers are just plain crazy.

Oh yeah, say what you really think, Obama is an insane, Negro, @!$%#, Black Boy, Monkey.

More lies coming from the stuck on stupid.

How convenient, when things don't go your way, or you disagree with another persons view, you call them racists. Your prejudice is showing....not the person you accuse.

You know who you are.

Job1:

Right on target - we see it here everyday and just like Karl Rove taught them with his 15 point Roveian Doctrine, they deny it and then blame somebody else for exactly what it is that they are doing. It is all about deception and deceit.

What can you expect from a Party that "renounces" its sworn oath to the Country in favor of some BS lobbyist ideology.

The(TP/GOP) has turned their collective backs on America a longtime ago and it is now starting to become evident as to what they really are - and supporting American values is not it.

Thanks Navy. So True.

No its Rule number 13 in your Alinsky Rules for Radicals when you cant win on the merits attack personally. We have never seen you do that have we Navy?

This time around, instead of the candidate of "Hope And Change", President Obama will be the candidate of "Slash And Burn".

Looks like the always reliable tactic of playing of the race card is being kicked into high gear.

What an uplifting, inspiring strategy.

This is going to be a very different campaign from Obama 2008, isn't it?

Sad.

"Debt, Downgrade, Delay" has defined the Republican congressional strategy. Republican Leader McConnell has espoused said strategy and crowed it to the press many times over the last 30 months.
Despite that, Barack Obama prevented a full-on Depression.

Despite the Republican party's mission to crash the economy & despite their relentless message of doubt, disdain, denigration and despair: Democrats continue to work to create a good future for ALL Americans.

To all Americans: END THE GOP WAR ON JOBS.

END THE GOP WAR ON OUR RECOVERY.

What we do know is that republicans hate America and the American people.

How do you republicans feel about the right being more than happy to raise your taxes, but no new taxes on the rich, they just can't afford it.

Tell us how proud you are that the republicans will raise taxes on you the working poor and the middle class. You are out here on the front lines defending them and then they raise your taxes.

This is just more proof that if you are not rich, the republicans will throw you under the bus with the rest of us. The only difference we liberals are smart enough not to vote for them, are you?

GOD Im sooooo tired of the BS dogcrap POS rambling on about the Now called Rovian hollywood manuscript! Im still waiting for my autographed and signed copy of this amazing document that seems to be the Harry Potter book of the year for Liberals. MOVE on will ya! I cant imagine what any of your homes are like, crap broken all over from tantrums, holes in the walls from throwing things when your angry and broken microwave from all the popcorn and butter!

Americansfirst........ Here is what I do every month and YOU can too! Go to irs.gov and open up a account. you enter your SSN and use your debit card to donate any amount of money you would like. I donate every month what I can afford I suggest you do too! It goes to the general fund and will be used to help americans. Jump right in froggy put your money where your mouth is, or is it just other peoples money your wanting?

This is the response you will receive!

Thank you for using Online Service at www.irs.gov. This email confirms that your donation to the federal government was received and processed on 8/15/2011 8:30 AM CT. The IRS will transfer this donation to the general fund. Typically, it takes the IRS 5 to 7 business days to post this payment to your account. Your confirmation number is ########. If you would like a paper receipt, please visit www.irs.gov and select the Verification option.

Again, thank you for donation. Please feel free to bookmark this site for future Federal donations, and if we can be of any service to you, please contact us!

Hmmmmmmm "Silence is golden......Golden!

JOS: GOD Im sooooo tired of the BS dogcrap POS rambling on about the Now called Rovian hollywood manuscript!

Then you should stop using the tactics. Until then...

Best thing I ever did was put jolly old soul on ignore.

fielden thank you for responding you are a stronger soul than me to read jolly's crap.

Lmao...... you totally missed the entire point of the second statement and actual response from Our goverment. You make a statement I offer a solution and yet.......chirping crickets. AF igores anyone he cant do the lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalal fingers in he/she/its ears.

LOL, you liberals are almost as easy as it is to get rich in this country. Jolly makes way too much sense for you to read anyway.....

Thanks TonyC I dont get ignoring people unless they are threatening or attacking you for no reason. If you cant answer the question or handle the heat dont chat. I get frustrated with Feisty and Navybouys constant incessant flow of excrement but I dont ignore them. I want to see the day they actually say something important or original!

Job1 you can spin it anyway you want, but the truth is the President and I were both carried in the wombs of caucasian women. Therefore it is a fact that finding fault with your on race is not grounds for prejudice. However claiming the President is black because his father is black while his mother is caucasian and the fact you are a male makes you sexist. While your ranting gives proof that you are juvenile or immature. You are the one with issues.

jolly. That won't happen....your last sentence that is. It is funny and sad that closed minded bigots call people that have a different point of view a closed minded bigot. These liberals get real upset that there are a few of us who disrupt their mutual admiration society, cut and paste side show and the mis-information and exaggerations of the facts. To your point, then run and hide when their exaggerations are exposed.

Funny how Conservatives are the only ones talking about "Rules for Radicals". I'd heard of Alinsky but couldn't have told you the name of any of his works or anything else about them until Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity wouldn't stop talking about him. As everything the GOPTP does shows they're the party being run by radicals it isn't hard to see their intense level of interest in the work. Since it's Conservatives who started the Alinsky conversation and continue to bring it up daily it clearly fits the Rovian strategy;

Accuse your opponents of what you are doing yourself.

What? Isn't there a socialist worker party rally you can attend tonight? They will agree with you.

I'm a capitalist, not a Socialist, so I probably wouldn't have a lot in common with them. Fifteen years plus in management, but don't hesitate to continue throwing empty Conservative talking points. Apparently that's all you've got.

Really! Thats interesting......I will pay more attention, count on it. Not all I got, believe me.

Jody:

Another great wrap up this week. It seems the political system is so screwed up that they cannot even agree on when to meet anymore. Everybody is trying to make the other guys look bad instead of trying to create jobs, get spending under control and move this country forward.

The August numbers (Jobs) is another reflection on how the contrived and manufactured "Debt Ceiling" crisis has damaged this country. These August numbers are on the shoulders of the TP/GOP. It was their agenda to hold America "Hostage"for their political agenda and both the markets and jobs have suffered because of them. This has also stalled the economy - everything that the TP/GOP prayed for and it fact made happen.

President Obama 2012.

More fallout from Obama trying to schedule his speech over the top of the Republican debate.

Obama sent his moron press guy Carney in front of the cameras to “give permission” to NBC and the Republicans to change their previously scheduled debate date so Obama could get his way to give his speech on Wednesday. Give permission? Who does Obama think he is? He doesn’t give permission to anyone to when they can have their debate.

Mark Halperin was right. Obama is a dick.

It is easy to understand why liberals feel Speaker Boehner was disrespectful because it has been a trademark of the GOPTP since Obama took the Oath.

They've exhibited downright RUDE behavior!

John Boehner has turned down EVERY invitation extended to State Dinners & refused to ride on Air Force One with the President to Tuscon!

It's almost like he's afraid to get to close to him - some color might rub off....

PS: I sprayed some NJ nut job repellent - hopefully it will repel her from leaving a steaming pile on your porch! ;o)

PPS: Sorry for the double post - first one ended up in the wrong spot! ;o)

Jody:

Excellent!! Absolutely excellent!

"Mark Halperin was right. Obama is a dick."

Smiff- I could be wrong, but I bet you wouldn't recognize a dick if you saw one.

Well, JoAnnaSmith, everyday you rise to a new level of disrespect. Life must be one miserable day after another for you because hate is all consuming. BTW, Mark Halperin is the "dick" and a disrespectful hack pretending to be a journalist--real journalists criticize the policies not the person.

dbo: I could be wrong, but I bet you wouldn't recognize a dick if you saw one.

Certainly if you were the one doing the demonstrating.

DBO and Jody:

I do not need to take the resident JS1 off ignore, just reading your posts tells me she is still a despicable self-centered hack spilling the same hate speech with no ideas whatever.

We should all pity her for her life must really be awful to be so full of hate. People like that are not worth your time and energy. Do not let her drag you down to her level, she just is not worth it - period.

Ms. Water's said it best when she told the TP/GOP to go to hell - they can take you know who with them.

I do wonder though, if when the liberal group that posts every morning pats each other on the back when they leave the welfare office.

Thats right Navy just keep your head in the sand. Don't allow your mind to expand by listendg to others that may not agree with you.

Good Morning Jody, another homerun...out of the park.

The level of disrespect towards our President is disgusting. It is to be regretted as our troubles deepen, nothing will be solved when disrespect and rudeness are the only way to get a point across.

The jobs report is disappointing, but what else would it be as the Government, Federal and States lay off more and more people. The private sector grew but the government layoffs created the net loss.

Most of all I am sickened at the number of posters here and elsewhere who are taking delight in America's woes, these are e I expect the usual Godfearing, mostly white, undereducated Christians, who call themselves, Patriots.

Gingerbread Mamma, it is troubling that so many conservatives seem to take such delight in the pain and suffering of others. In my view, they sold their hearts and souls to the highest bidder.

Tony C, it seems you buy what the GOPTP tells you--all liberals are worthless, lazy no goods who never worked a day in their life and live off conservatives. Tony, lazy is a bi-partisan affliction. Since you know nothing about the liberals who post here, their jobs or their incomes, it is wise not to make accusations you cannot support. I don't care what you do for a living, how much money you make or for that matter if you are what you accuse liberals of being--I just know that I disagree with your politics.

Wonderful Jody. Thanks

Thats right Navy just keep your head in the sand. Don't allow your mind to expand by listendg to others that may not agree with you

It is better than where you tea baggers have your head.

Nice try on the spin, but I am not buying it.

I said I was wondering......Hit a nerve did I? I must say, your points are valid. No, I do not believe all liberals are lazy, etc. That would be a foolish belief. I believe, people are much better off providing for their own well being and not become dependent on a government. Of course there are people in need and we should take care of them. However, the results of the liberal approach shows that too many people end of feeling "entitled" and have become "enabled" and take advantage of the system, and are not using their God given ability to make a living. You are correct, this is a bi-partisan affliction, inflicted by liberals.

Tony C, you get points for making sense until the last three words. It is a fact that prior to social security trust savings (think 401K) and medicare, most seniors worked until they no longer could and subsquently lived in poverty; they had no access to health care because it was too expensive. One only needs to look at the historical statistics and records, use Google, to see that both programs had a profound and positive impact on a better life for the elderly, the sick and the disabled. Why is that considered some liberal plot to make people dependent? It doesn't make them dependent, it makes them independent in their old age, it makes the contributors to society and to the economy. The evil is starving the Nation of revenues needed to continue American exceptionalism. When did we become a Nation of selfish and greedy people who think only about themselves? This is the first Great Recession most of us have ever lived through yet it is also the first "Selfish" recession this country has ever known. Those who have the wealth should be asked to contribute a little more to aid the country that provided them with the opportunity to become wealthy.

What troubles me is not that conservatives think social safety nets are wrong but that they have been carefully taught to think so. I was a republican until Ronald Reagan transformed this country's thinking into something unrecognizable as a Nation, the country previously believed in shared responsibility to collectively make the country strong and provide some measure of security for everyone of us. Anti-government, anti-tax, anti-union, rhethoric has had a profound and negative impact on what this country is today.

Tony I agree there a lot of people who abuse the system, but in this recession there are a lot of people who got screwed by no fault of their own, I have often heard it stated: "I have never worked for a poor man" that being said what do people do when the people who have all the money refuse to hire anyone? Who they going to work for?

Jody:

Mixed feelings about your post. It's thorough, entertaining, and simply excellent. On the other hand, I have to wonder how much worse can senility get, when I realize that a good deal of what you have reported has either slipped by me OR I forgot.

One point about Perry and the incarceration issue. You mention both jails and prisons. Typically, jails are run by Sheriffs. They simply bill the feds for the costs of detaining illegals and are routinely reimbursed. Now, those illegals that are in prison are housed there for violating state law. That cost rightfully belongs on the state. They broke a state law, not a federal law. You might even look at it as one of those 10th Amendment things. Gosh!

Yeah, I think the rich are beginning to feel entitled to tax cuts that our country has to borrow the money to give them. Why shouldn't American go into more debt to give even more tax cuts to the rich? They expect it and every republican is trying to give them.

Especially notable when the republicans are ready to raise taxes on the working poor and middle class. Defend raising taxes on the middle class while the republicans are protecting the rich from tax increases. Tell us how happy you are to be paying more taxes brought to you by the party you have been defending.

How does it feel being under the bus with the rest of us?

This

Monday is a public holiday.

On Tuesday congressionals travel back to Washington after 5 weeks' vacation...

Wednesday was President's first choice, Wednesday being first day of Fall Congress.

Thursday is next day and Obama took it.

Friday Congress goes home.

This House works two weeks and then takes a week off on a rotating schedule.

Thank you Jody and friends,

So far half a million public employee jobs have been cut. This includes first responders, police, fire fighters and teachers. Just when we need them most.

All those Republican Governors who cut thousands jobs in their state and then gave that money to corporations ~~ have taken food out of our children's mouths.

Jody, the safety nets have to be reformed to survive. Scoring political points with exaggerations and mis-information from some liberals in Congress when proposals are put forth is not going to save these programs.

Years ago, medical costs were not an issue. Lawyers were not driving the bus so to speak back then. So, I am not so sure access and cost associated with healthcare was so much of an issue back then. I am old enough to remember having my employer pay my entire healthcare costs. A great deal of workers were covered in retirement. Healthcare costs is a problem, and Obamacare will not solve it. Conservatives do not believe social nets are wrong. Not true. Those programs need to have better management and control. Anti-government etc also is not factual. Government has gotten too big. Labor got as greedy as some business owners. The tax codes need to be reformed. Exaggerations from the far left paint an incorrect picture of the facts. What I see, is a President who encourages class warfare by segmenting groups of Americans as the enemy. Obama tends to allienate and agitate as part of a solution, it is not and it won't unite people to work together. His speeches tend to have the same profound and negative impact as well. I have the same view as you do, sort of, but just because I worked my a-- off and made a few bucks should not mean I owe anybody anything. Those of us who have, are not the enemy. Get tired of Obama saying so.

Tony, The GOP and their TP corporate lackeys are serving the masters of mis-information and delusion. After years of stabbing us all in the back to squeeze out more & more $bucks and using us up, taking our jobs and denying us work at this point is easy meat. Conscience and moral faculty is gone...ask Cantor and Paul on FEMA

They're marching on the orders of ALEC, Koch, Norquist and Big Money and it cannot be disguised, even if the right wing media covers it up.

It has taken years of planning to bring the country to such a point and all in the name of making the rich endlessly richer. The right wing is destroying government so they can privatize our world. Disenfranchizing ordinary Americans and making sure they are without affordable health care, education, food or gas or future is the evidence. You are looking at it.

END THE GOP WAR ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Really! LOL

What a sad way to go through life....full of bitterness and hate .in a country full of opportunity......Man you were born in the wrong country....

Tony, the republicans are going to throw you under the bus with the rest of us. With your great intellect you just haven't figured that out yet.

How about the republicans raising your taxes, Norquist gave the okay to raise your taxes but not the rich. Think maybe you voted for the wrong party?

Jody, excellent as always.

Here's an article showing what a boon (doggle) that Florida law has been:

http://www.wftv.com/news/28908436/detail.html

Only idiots and morons would pursue it at this point,...but mark my words, it will be pursued.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

GBMama

as state budgets continue to contract,...expect MORE government job loss, and potential private sector job losses. This is a normal reaction to budget cuts, no? You'd think somehow this concept was JUST begun. PS. Don't forget - striking workers AND FAA workers STALLED due to Congressional ineffectiveness. I'm sure C O N S E R V A T I V E S are rubbing their hands at this 'turn' of events for our country. Americans are FAR less enamored, I assure you.

I will gladly pay more taxes. Only after there is a requirement that the additional tax dollars reduce the national debt and not be spent. Regardless of what you think, this nation cannot continue to rack up debt with borrowed and printed money. I am the one trying to save you from being run over. I dont want anyone to hit by a bus. But if this wild spending doesn't stop, we will drown in debt. Too bad you see this as a one sided issue.

Hold it am I hearing this right...only the liberals IGNORE people! GASP...lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala!

Tony C, I didn't say the social safety nets did not need fixing now did I? The easy fix, raise the cap on income up to $1 million or eliminate the cap altogether to name one. There are others that do not require dismantling the programs. Right now, the country needs to increase revenues and invest in America to grow the economy--the debt must be addressed but the best way is to spend $$ to create jobs in the short term.

David W. I know that every state, town bills the feds for federal prisoners but I couldn't resist poking fun at Perry because he and the TPers preach "state's right, leave us alone" so often.

Well said, Jody. Everyone acknowledges adjustments need to be made, Conservatives want to contrive a crisis like the world is about to end.

Jody, I just made the statement, didn't say you didn't understand. I agree with you when it comes to social security. Raise the cap by all means. Not every Republican idea is the right fix. But, exaggerations of what is being proposed with no counter proposal so that a meaningful solution can be arrived at is a problem. The best way to create jobs is to support American business with policies that will give Business owners the confidence to invest. Obama has done the opposite. The engine of economic growth and greater tax revenues is good old American free enterprise working on all cyclinders. If the last 32 months have not proved that point to you, I don't know what will.

Aren't you confused? You are talking like the country was in fine shape when Obama was elected. Obama has done the opposite of Bush or what? Or are you talking about Dodd/Frank trying to prevent another stock market crash after the laws after the 1929 crash were gutted and we were robbed again. Only this time instead of jumping out windows we bailed them out and now the republicans are fighting to keep their tax cuts. Not fair to ask the rich, especially those rich to contribute to America.

If you are so concerned about spending, I would think you would be hollering about Afghanistan at what 10 billion a week.

If tax cuts created jobs we would be rolling in them. What we need are people with good jobs and money to buy the goods being sold. That needs new revenue to do a real jobs bill and the poor rich republicans just need to suck it up and pretend they are Americans too and accept fair taxes for the rich.

If you truly cared about our country and you truly care about the debt, It would be a no brainer to raise taxes on the rich.

So Tony with your concern that the new taxes be paid only on the debt are you telling us you bring home more that $500,000 a year and you spend your days on here?

You do know that the republicans are going to raise taxes on the middle class and you won't have any say so on how the money is spent.

Don't worry they will keep protecting the rich from tax increases like anyone believes you are that rich.

You will never move forward, it seems. Time for leadership in the White House, not constant reminders of how we got in the mess or "who done it". By the way, you seem to not understand something that is very basis about the many ways income is derived. As usual you just rant and complain and assume your exaggerations somehow are accurate. Where did you get the $500,000 number? This will really throw you for a loop, I don't even go to work (traditional job).

And you continue to minimize the importance of how we got in this mess. You don't get to start from where you want to be, you have to start from where you are. Where President Obama started was the trough of the worst recession since the Great Depression, with a weak middle class due to 3 decades of wage stagnation and a permanent structural budget deficit...all of which were caused by the dominant position of Supply Side economics. It started with Ronald Reagan's Laffer Curve, continued through years of bowing to the every wish of St Alan Greenspan and a steady stream of burst economic bubbles caused by deregulation, culminating in a crash of epic proportions in which all those things conspired to create an economic catastrophe unseen in our lifetimes.

My point is after the history lesson, it is time for work, time to stop looking backwards. The focus has to be on curing the disease not reminding the patient how he got it or from whom. If I hired someone for a tough job and every conversation was about who causes the mess, I would fire him and get someone else who understood why they were hired. OK, Bush did it. Now can we move on to the business at hand? If Obama was smart he would have got the history lesson out of the way and told his staff, look we are here to get it done. No more excuses. Again, Obama shows a complete lack of leadership ability.

Obama is really hurting himself when in speech after speech his prelude is not my fault, here are my excuses. I do not expect the next speech to be any different. Most Americans are getting tired of his attitude. The only person more arrogant and condescending when they speak is Mika on Morning Joe.

Pure Conservative propaganda, from minimizing 3 decades of Supply Side failure as "Bush did it" to pretending that Barack Obama hasn't taken responsibility for the economy. You can't even decide which misrepresentation to stick with, "Barack Obama promised to fix the economy in 3 years" or "Barack Obama hasn't even taken responsibility for the economy." That's because Conservatism isn't about consistency of thought or principle, it's a series of messages designed to sell policies designed to benefit the rich.

Which reminds me, you haven't yet explained how increasing liquidity of the wealthy and corporations sitting on huge piles of cash serves to create demand where there is none.

John, nothing I said was propaganda. Our economy is in bad shape. I spelled out what I believe would be a better strategy for a leader to have taken to address the economic issues. Re-read what I said. Obama has for the past 32 months proven my point. You may not agree. Fine. Obama doesn't agree, I am sure. The economy will not improve if this President continues on the current path. I don't believe he will change course. He will not be re-elected. We will see who is right next November.

Thanks, Feisty, for giving that new bug repellent a try. Time will tell but it might take more than one application.

Jody--thank you for the update--great as usual! I would like to add that we are coming up on our Labor Day holiday this weekend. Time to remember all of the sacrifices made by US WORKERS (the "small" people) to give us our five day workweek, our 40 hour workweek, safety in the workplace, minimum wage, paid benefits, as well as other benefits to make our working lives better!

Dave 138....:

I agree with you. The time for this stupid self-serving crap is over. It is time for them to listen to the American People and not Wall Street, Big Business and the 2% crowd.

If the middle class goes away - there will be no Wall Street or Big Business. The middle class is the engine that keeps this country running - not the 2%. If we do not have money in our pockets we are not going to be buying the goods and services. It is that simple. Even with all the wealth they have they alone can not keep this country whole, they need to have the middle class viable - not slave labor.

It History has taught us anything, the new TP/GOP agenda is not compatible with democracy as we know it and this agenda has failed in country after country. Google it - this is the wrong path for moving this country forward.

Dave, so true. I've followed politics for decades and have never seen such dysfunction, such inability to rise to the troubled times by putting aside ideology and working for the people who pay their salaries. Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan must be shaking their heads in disbelief.

US Navy says: If the middle class goes away - there will be no Wall Street or Big Business. The middle class is the engine that keeps this country running - not the 2%.

================================================================

US Navy I disagree, wall street and corporate America have effectively divorced themselves from main street. They took the money the U.S. taxpayer was forced to give them and loaned it to entities overseas and invested it in off shore businesses, that's why even though the stock market is doing quite well main street is destitute, one no longer effects the other, if wall street or the big banks want some more money to piss off they just have the FED print some, at 0% interest, and not one dime of it ever makes it to main street. Wall street and the big banks got bailed out and made whole after the crash in 08, for them the recession ended long ago, main street never got a bailout and the recession has never ended for them and is getting worse by the day. Main street is obviously of no concern to anyone in the beltway, and that's the way they intend to keep it.

w bush:

Thanks, I stand corrected. You got my vote - touche' my friend and have a great weekend.

@JohnB -- How is that a change??? Why are you twisting what was reported and in the manner it was reported. Are you that desperate to try to find issues that you make them up?

The story said they were "eyeing" and generally supported the measure but declined to have a strategy at that time. After assessment, ATR decided not to seek an immediate dropping of those taxes. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?????

Remember -- the pledge was no new taxes -- a pledge already broken by this failed prez when he said no one making under $250k would see a tax increase.

John B:

Excellent post to end the week. The fact are the facts and thanks for putting them up. I am sure the rightieswill go crazy, they never liked facts - they get in their way of the lies they keep fostering day in and day out.

Just watched Rummy again with his Jobs lie. These guys have no shame at all, leave out the real facts and make things up as they go.

Why are you ignoring the sum and substance of the post -- that the Conservative Movement is run by wealthy elites from behind the screen of ALEC and other groups?

Why do you insist it's not a change, when the cited information quotes Grover Norquist that he still wants to eliminate the tax within the next 2-5 years?

@John B -- What do you expect? Do you think the progressive movement is run by poor dumb people living in dirt??? Your point is SO WHAT!!!!!??? The Bilderbergs are the poorest people on the planet right? You people are laughable and the biggest hypocrites on the planet. You make a big deal out of something one side is doing while ignoring the same thing your side is doing. As I was told earlier --

How many times do we have to tell you SLOW & STUPID is NO way to go through life sonny? In your case girlie.

John B, well done, informative post. Makes you wonder how it is King Grover Nordquist has such power in Congress--we the people did not elect him. I don't recall at which legislator's town hall it took place, but voters demanded answers about the Pledge to Grover; one constituent even asked if there were any other pledges that voters should know about.

No, Ben numbers, it is conservatives who are laughable because they fall for what the King Grovers of this country sell them without ever realizing they've been sold down the river.

@Jody -- For God's sake lady, don't your remember the Golden Promise the democrats signed? A pledge with Americans United For Change and being lead by the nose and sold down the river by labor. This is just a perfect example of my statement of the left being laughable and hypocrites.

http://www.americansunitedforchange.org/news/clip/investors_business_daily_dems_lining_up_behind_pledge_to_fight_social_secur/

http://www.americansunitedforchange.org/blog/entries/signing_the_golden_promise/

So Ben, according to you, it is the laboring class that is the cause of our problems. FYI, my view is NO legislators should sign any pledges to anyone or any group. It is one thing to promise to work toward a goal but no one should sign on the dotted line. The only oath they should take is to the Constitution.

I think the only reason King Grover is allowing this tax to continue is because of people taking notice and beginning to fight back. He doesn't want too much of a backlash to build up.

Norquist would just as soon wait and do it when our backs are turned and we are not paying attention.

He has a loyal following on this board, they hate America and the majority of liberals who elected President Obama just as much as Grover and his rich friends hate us.

Don't you just love that Norquist has okay-ed raising taxes, your taxes on the middle class?

Rich First-Country Last the new republican motto.

For the love of America Obama 2012

@Jody -- No Jody, I am not saying it is the laboring class causing problems. I am pointing out an example of democrats doing the same the left attacks the right for doing. It is commendable that you condemn the dems when they signed the Americans United for Change pledge.

The Americans United for Change pledge is out there in public, limited in scope, and dedicated to helping the average American. The Grover Norquist pledge comes from someplace unknown, runs by rules that seem to be known only to Norquist, in support of an agenda decided in secret by organizations like ALEC, at the whims of wealthy elite including the Koch brothers.

Big difference.

Bravo, JoAnne PA!

I can definitely relate to that, last October 30 of us were laid off in one day. Most lived in company housing and were given 2 months to move and some had been with the company for 30 years.

My friend and co-worker and also laid off is quite overweight and tried to take a job as a cashier at Von's and standing in one place caused her a lot of pain and after a week she quit and now she has been denied unemployment even though at 55 this is the first time she has ever applied for unemployment.

I was the 2008 employee of the year for my innovative collections and success in my endeavors. I have put out hundreds of applications and have had 3 interviews. The job market is that bad. I am 62 and this is only the second time I have filed for unemployment in my life. I am not lazy and want to work and all I hear from the republicans is how I should be punished because I can't find a job.

Vote them out any republican who pledged with Norquist before America.

Stop the republican obstructionism to jobs vote all Democrats 2012.

Fine post, JoAnne.

I love this post. It puts the personal tragedy that is the current economy into the spotlight. The current times do not call for hatred, name calling, and other un civil acts of conscience. They call for deliberate discussions of what needs to be done.

On that score, I have not yet heard anyone put forward a proposal that addresses the issues. No man, or woman, can individually solve the current crisis that is the result of years in the making. I don't care how we got here, I just care about how we move ahead. But therein lies the rub.

Discussion of tax rates, no tax rates, high tax rates, etc is a waste of time if there is nothing to tax. Sure, some people have survived the current situation reasonably well but many others haven't. And in the Great Depression, that no one has yet argued failed to occur (unlike the Holocaust), many people did manage to get through with limited impact. That is what is America is all about. Some people are just more successful, or luckier than the others.

Corporations are not generally evil doers. They do what they can to make the most money they can because that is why they exist. It might be different for a small business owner whose identity is tied up in his/her business and wants the businesses image to favorably dispose their own image. But large corporations, with hired management and unattached shareholders exist to make money.

I do not know of one company that consistently does what is right for society but most of them do things that ultimately is good for society. I do not need an iPad but glad that Apple designed one. Sure they make their products overseas but why should we rail against them - it is what they are supposed to do to maximize profitability. When the world's barriers came tumling down in the last decade or so, this is what happens. Businesses go where they are incented to go. If they didn;t, they would ultimately cease to exist.

Businesses also go where the customer is. If demand is greater in China, India or whereever, and the company's products can be produced less expensively in those markets, why would anyone think they would build factories in America? it's not like we have all the secrets to effective manufacturing, especially if capital is employed to eliminate human error and inefficiency.

What we need to do is find a level playing field where there are no disincentives to creation in America. We probably have the cleanest environment and safest work places in the world, but that comes at a price. Should we lower our standards (and resultant lower cost structure) so we can compete with the rest of the world? Or should we try to get all of humanity to enjoy the safety and cleanliness of our society? Even if it were possible, it will take time for the rest of the world to catch up.

i don't have the answers to our current economic situaiton. If I did, I would certainly share them for everyone's betterment. I do know that we were all nice and happy prior to 2007/2008 and now we are not. In most cases, not much has changed to our economic system (depsite all the calls about increased regulations, socialist policies, etc) to have created such a deteriorated economy.

It is possible we were living on borrowed time when everything was dandy, and now we have to make up for that extravagence. Reducing our debt load as a percent of GDP is necessary so we can have the financial stability to encounter negative trends. But doing so today will only exacerbate the negative economy in the short term.

So who has the better policies, Republicans or Democrats? Answer: neither. A few extra percent of tax rates even for everyone is not going to change much in the short term. We have enjoyed the lower rates for nearly the past decade, and they have done nothing to prevent nor change the course of the last three year's economic malaise. We had been running deficits for better than the past decade and they have not prevented nor changed the course of the last three year's economic malaise.

Maybe there's a differernt route that is required. i only hope that trying to say so and so failed, or so and so is to blame stops because it does nothing to change the course we are on.

Thanks, Jody and Mark in SoCal.

Americans First - I expect I'll be in your shoes sooner or later - probably sooner. I've been there twice before, once after 28 years on the job and again after 34 years, so I can appreciate what you're going through even though I survived the cut this time. It hurts in so many ways beyond just the loss of income. People might be surprised to learn that one of the few politicians I ever heard speak that truly "got" that was Joe Biden, and it was an honor for me to get to tell him so afterwards. Best of luck in your search.

peteslat - Your response was both honest and thoughtful. I don't have the answers either, but I know we'll never find them if we don't - as you said - change the course we are on. Hope you'll post more often; I'd enjoy hearing more of what you have to say.

Democrat Soldier - no one wants to tell the truth because the fact is most Americans don't want the truth, and the second fact of importance is that the media doesn't seem to understand the truth.

The truth is we're a shell of an economic superpower, in a macro sense trying to come to terms with what comes next, and in a micro sense squabbling to retain our respective slices of a shrinking pie.

Do you really expect a politician to say that? Of course he won't. It's all the BS about what can be done to "restore our great country to the great greatness we can greatly have again." And in the void created by that bi-partisan lie lies the media - with its members virtually untrained in anything other than journalism - meaning it can't even screw in its own lightbulbs, but can only report what others say about those lightbulbs ought to be screwed in.

Thank YOU, Democrat Soldier. You and I seem to be pretty much on the same page this morning.

Democratic Solider:

Great post to end the week. Kudos and right on point. Thankyou for the well written and factual information. Have a great Holiday weekend.

Paul M:

I sadly agree with you. For about 4 years now, I've known that the USA has hit the end of its run as the "ruling empire" of the world. Observations of history show that there are a few phases in the era of any ruling power. Unfortunately we're in the final stage, which is all about corruption and decadence. The people, ethics, and innovation of a young and hungry country is far different from our current incarnation.

There are two paths our nation can take. We could follow the path of the Roman Empire and focus on revitalizing ourselves through military expansion. However this path ultimately leads to a more spectacular implosion when we finally go under. Or you can slowly ease off of the reigns of power and go into a quasi-retirement state. The British Empire actually managed to follow this path towards the end of their reign, which has left that small country in a "wise old uncle" type of position.

Let's be honest. Does the USA really want to hear a message like that? Are we ready to accept that kind of thing either intellectually or emotionally? No, of course we aren't. Like any ruling power towards the end of their reign, we're in complete denial and will rage against any comments or information that are contrary to this position.

Wiser with Age;

Very interesting post. Thank you. Keeping my fingers and toes crossed and hope we call pull away from the abyss. If it is not already to late. It seems to be that it takes years longer to repair years of abuse.

Well said, The Democrat Soldier. Never in my many years of following politics have I seen the dysfunction in Washington that exists today. Previously in bad times, both parties put aside politics and ideology and did what had to be done.

Paul M, Wiser with Age, thougtful and honest posts as well.

Morning Jay: Obama has Failed by His Own Standards

This year, net confidence in the government hit a recent low. That suggests to me that Obama has failed by his own standards.

"...a review of the Obama administration’s actions to date reveals a White House that time and again has chosen the special interests over the public good."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/morning-jay-obama-has-failed-his-own-standards_592025.html

Is Cost correct?

Dear dangerfield:

No, he is not. Special interests purchased this country long ago. President Obama is forced to negotiate with those actually in power, namely the special interestst, to get the needs of we, the human people, addressed in any way at all.

That is the reality that the punditocracy faults the President for being unable to bend.

Now, I have addressed you as if you were a person of good will looking for answers. That is officially my good deed for the day! :o)

Funny, I addressed you as someone who might actually read something and comment on THAT.
JAY COST is the author, HE is the one asking the question. It seemed only fitting that the question be addressed to the President's #1 defender/FAN here, as who else would be better equipped to refute his contentions or provide a spirited counterpoint to them?

______________________________________________________________________________

Here is a leading progressive voice, Cenk Uygur, of "The Young Turks" NOT ME, expressing his opinion. Do you also disagree with him? Is HE a "phony independent", too?

The audacity of weakness

Another embarrassing fail betrays a White House in a bubble

Here was the headline on Yahoo News tonight: "Obama bows to Boehner on jobs speech."

Bows to Boehner: I can tell you what any progressive who has been paying attention thought, "Oh boy, here we go again."

snip

Here is what all voters, and especially independents, despise and disdain in a politician -- weakness. Nobody wants to see their leader get beat to a pulp every night and then bow his head again.

There is no secret, brilliant strategy. This White House is in a bubble. They think they're winning when the roof is about to cave in.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/09/01/cenk_obama_boehner/index.html

______________________________________________________________________________________

The questions about leadership, strength and abandoning his principles, from the left, right and center, are not mine, though I do share some of them, as do most Americans, whether they support the current administration or not.

Like a small minority here, I am looking for answers, as opposed to already thinking I know everything, so highlighting intelligent thought form different political viewpoints and maybe starting a discussion, is MY good deed of the day...

Have a great Labor Day Weekend...

NF: No, he is not. Special interests purchased this country long ago. President Obama is forced to negotiate with those actually in power, namely the special interestst, to get the needs of we, the human people, addressed in any way at all.

What'd you expect dangerfield, a real answer? Just more vague excuses and pointing of fingers at shadow non-existent figments of the liberals imaginations. It's not like Obama is President or anything. He has no say about what's going on.

It is quite entertaining to see how agitated folks get when presented with the reality that President Obama has done a masterful job under some of the most trying conditions in U.S./World history.

But hey, there are folks who make a living complaining and stirring up nontroversies, and we do need jobs, so whine away folks, whine away.

It's a living.

Nashville Fan says;

"President Obama has done a masterful job under some of the most trying conditions in U.S./World history."

____________________________________________________________________________________

(Complainers?, whiners?, NONTRAVERSIES?) Is that really all you have left to defend this administration?

These are trying times...but does anyone else believe that the President and his administration has been "MASTERFUL"?

Anyone? And if so, how so?

JS1:

The President could never be as great as NF believes, and could never be as bad as you believe...both blinded, but by a different light...:)

NF: It is quite entertaining to see how agitated folks get when presented with the reality that President Obama has done a masterful job under some of the most trying conditions in U.S./World history.

Yup. Masterful. August - 0 jobs. Exquisite.

Some people have high standards, some people have low standards. To be an Obama groupie like Nash here, you have to have no standards.

dangerfield:

I am not blinded at all. The reality is that no one has outlined a reality based way that the President could have accomplished more that what he has with what he has got.

It is easy to make suggestions, but not so easy to get all these bright ideas through the disfunctional Congress.

So folks whine instead . . . which is fine with me. That is everyone's right as an American to say and believe what they want, which is what I did as well! :o)

It is difficult for folks to face the reality that our problems did not begin with President Obama, and will not end with him either. The laser like focus on people instead of policies is actually a part of the problem, not the solution.

But I appreciate the President for his efforts at steering our country in a new direction, because one is surely needed.

NF: But I appreciate the President for his efforts at steering our country in a new direction, because one is surely needed.

So you're okay with the 9.1% unemployment, zero job growth, $1.3 trillion dollar deficits, and 1% GDP. That's not quite the "new direction" most people are happy with.

Nicely said, Nashville Fan. Reality never was the strong suit of the right.

The reality is that no one has outlined a reality based way that the President could have accomplished more that what he has with what he has got.

___________________________________________________________________

Your take on "reality" is not shared by either the two authors I have cited today nor most anyone else.

Are you blaming congress for the executive branch's failures (READ the Cost article, or at least read the Uygur piece.) and dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with you, as "whiners"?

What REALITY does that represent?

No one thinks that our problems BEGAN with this President, or that he was going to solve them all, that's just not a REALISTIC point of view, and no one here, even the worst of his right wing detractors would be foolish to say that, but the REAL reality is that there are more problems and bigger problems than when he took office and he has been far less effective in prioritizing and addressing them than most of his supporters ever imagined when WE elected him.

You are in an increasingly diminishing minority of those who believe in this administration, but even you have only shooting the messenger(s) and blaming the congress as the final arrows in your quiver.

Is that reality?

If the President is indeed "steering our country in a new direction"...the direction is to the right, and away from the democratic party, just 3 short years after an electoral landslide and control of both houses. That is the real reality.

And Jody...There's at least as much criticism from the left and center...

dangerfield:

Perhaps I overlooked it, besides restating your case again, and again, and again, have you presented an alternate path the President could have taken with the current Congress to achieve a different result?

Did either author which you linked to?

The answer would be no.

I am not trying to convince you of anything dangerfield. It is not about "supporting" the President, it is about not wasting a lot of energy complaining about stuff that doesn't actually matter, thus taking oxygen away from stuff that really does.

Feel free to vote as you see fit for the person who you think will solve our country's problems. For me, President Obama is that person, and I am proud to stand up and say that I am working WITH my President to make progress, not win political fights and create good optics for the media.

Peace.

"...no one has outlined a reality based way the President could have accomplished more than what he has with what he has got."

Really, Nash?

President Obama was sworn in on January 20th, 2009. He entered office with a 256-178 Democratic majority in the U.S. House Of Representatives.

For much of 2009, President Obama operated with a U.S. Senate majority of 60 Democrats-40 Republicans (58 Democrats, plus two Senate "Independents" caucusing with the Democrats.)

That's "reality", Nash...whether you choose to accept it or not.

If it's "not"...

What other President (of either party, in recent years) has enjoyed that level of support in Congress?

Could you please tell us all how President George W. Bush, President George H.W. Bush, or President Ronald Reagan were blessed with more advantageous numbers for enacting their agendas in Congress, than President Obama enjoyed after Inauguration Day, 2009?

Because I'd love to hear it.

Stop your incessant whining, Nash.

Accountability's tough.

Every President...even President Obama...has to contend with it.

That's the deal, Nash.

Sorry.

Mixed Bag:

Your selective amnesia is acting up again . . . maybe when health reform kicks in, you can afford your meds again! :oP

MB_

"Could you please tell us all how President George W. Bush, President George H.W. Bush, or President Ronald Reagan..."

_____________________________________________________________________

President William Jefferson Clinton is conspicuously absent in the list of recent Presidents in your well thought out critique, why?

And NF-

You really don't seem to be able to present a cogent argument at all any more, just tired insults. The man presented FACTS, which you once used to value.

dangerfield:

Being lectured by you about anything is just too precious. You and Mixed Bag are being ignored for a reason, and it is not because of your factual posts.

Now run along and play with folk who don't actually know you for who and what you are, mmmmkay?

Oh yeah, Happy Labor Day.

lol

Lets see if I can explain this to mixed bag. The other presidents operated under a different set of rules. Parties actually compromised to get bills passed. I am 62 and remember how different things use to be.

The very first day of President Obama's term they were already denouncing him as a failure and vowed to make America fail before they would work with him.

Now it takes a majority of 60 in the senate to even bring something up to the floor and not be filibustered.

You really counted Lieberman as one of the 60 even though he campaigned for McCain. You republicans do love to twist the facts and then lie as if they are true.

Again with the insults and no cogent argument?

Where do you get the idea that I'm being ignored? by the AW's logic, I have more "votes" than you do here so that means that you are the one being 'ignored" doesn't it?

You are the one who is increasingly alone in your views, and the one reduced to petty insult. I am sure that Mixed Bag didn't expect the unmerited insult about his "meds", as an answer to a legitimate question, but sadly that appears to be all that's left for you.

Oh yeah, in the very same spirit of cordiality as you expressed

Have a great weekend!

______________________________________________________________________________

AF-

You really should READ something.

Do you know what "caucusing" means?

Do you know who sen Lieberman "caucuses" with?

You are either a kid or none too bright, so I'm going with kid to be kind.

Here, try to read something;

Joseph Isadore "Joe" Lieberman (born February 24, 1942) is the senior United States Senator from Connecticut. A former member of the Democratic Party, he was the party's nominee for Vice President in the 2000 election. Currently an independent, he remains closely affiliated with the party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman

Can you tell me how he voted on the major legislation passed by the administration?

I'll help you, but you'll have to read;

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53278

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=300067&tab=votes

________________________________________________________________________________

Some would say that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm SHOWING you that you don't know what you're talking about.

You're welcome...:)

Good question, dangerfield!

The omission of President Clinton was tailored to annoy Nash...not intended to annoy you.

Of course President Clinton didn't enjoy the Democratic Congressional majorities that President Obama did when he assumed office in January, 2009. And, things actually got worse for him in that respect, didn't they?

AND...he was still able to govern effectively.

Go figure.

Actually, I'd guess you'd have to go back to President Johnson in January, 1965 to find an example of a U.S. President with the sort of Congressional support President Obama enjoyed when he was inaugurated.

That's only a guess, though.

dangerfield:

I am ignoring you . . . and today's "conversation" was a great reminder why.

Mixed Bag:

I am flattered that you intended to annoy me . . . means you care . . . awwwww! :oP

American's First:

Great comment . . . thanks for sharing it . . . although, sadly it is wasted on the likes of dangerfield and Mixed Bag . . . they are here only to create a distraction . . . and they are good at what they do . . . which is why I usually just ignore them and sweep their poop off my porch! :o)

hahaha...Once again your own "poop" hits the Nashville Fan...You must be splattered after today!

Who are you to tell anyone else what THEIR purpose or motives are? You can't possibly know so it's just your own emotional upset and insecurity bubbling up and has nothing to do with why I, MB, or anyone here writes.

Do you really think anyone cares about or BELIEVES your sad attempts to discredit what you can't refute?

We are "chuckling" (That's for you MB) at your scato-logic, that apparently is all you have left in your intellectual "arsenal" and which you are full of.

And I am laughing at someone who claims that they are ignoring me but replies to every post. Please Ignore me until you have something civil, intelligent or pertinent to the topic being discussed to say. Based on this thread, that could be a long time.

___________________________________________________________________________

MB-

I would guess that you're right, but it was a different WORLD back then, with liberal and centrist republicans replacing the southern "Dixiecrats" who later became republicans, in the coalition that passed medicare and the voting rights act.

It is pretty funny that though we differ on many issues, we always respect each others intelligence, and point of view. I guess that just isn't the First Read way...

You claimed Obama had a super majority in the senate and he didn't. Just because Lieberman caucused with the democrats didn't mean he would vote with them even to end a filibuster.

Does it make you feel better to pretend he had a super majority and could have done anything he wanted, except he didn't.

Are your criticism suppose to be more authentic because you said you voted for Obama? You sure do seem to parrot a lot of the right talking points for one who says they voted for Obama.

You claimed Obama had a super majority in the senate

I did? WHERE?

just because Lieberman caucused with the democrats didn't mean he would vote with them even to end a filibuster.

Did you look at senator Lieberman's voting record? I gave you the link. How often does he vote with the Democratic majority? I dare you to provide the answer.

Does it make you feel better to pretend he had a super majority and could have done anything he wanted, except he didn't.

What does this even mean? It's nonsense. I'm sorry but ut really doesn't make any sense.

Are your criticism suppose to be more authentic because you said you voted for Obama? You sure do seem to parrot a lot of the right talking points for one who says they voted for Obama.

My opinions are no more or less "authentic" than yours. Which "talking points" am I parroting? Can you list them for me so I am able to review them?

Failing to be able to make a factual argument, you have been forced to try and "shoot the messenger"

If it makes YOU feel better to believe that everyone who is critical, disappointed in and disillusioned by the current administration has become a "right", as you so eloquently put it, you are going to find that the vast majority on the left and center are failing or have already failed that litmus test.

For the sake of the nation I hope he doesn't.

Obama's lecture ..ops...speech will contain the same "talking points". Obama will single out segments of the population as evil and not paying their fair share, etc, etc. Then after the blame and excuses he will propose the same short term "sugar" highs he calls investments, wich are nothing more than government spending programs that will not result in ecomonic growth in the long run. Also , he will call for raising taxes on some Americans and reduce taxes on others. "Redistribution" of wealth. Plain and simple.

We need a President who will lead, not encourage class warefare and allienate and agitate thinking that somehow that will solve the problem....We never needed a community agitator in the first place. Sadly that what we have.

Tony proclaims: We need a President who will lead, not encourage class warefare

==================================================================

Tony, dude, the rich have been waging war on the middle class and poor for over 20 years, I think it's way past time for the middle class and poor to fight back. Why is it that class warfare is ok when the rich wage it unopposed but when the poor and middle class try to fight back it's bad?

You have the talking point down pat. You can put the crib notes away. Ed Shults will be proud of you. Can you explain how the "rich" wage war on the middle class and the poor? That is really a stupid statement that will accomplish nothing. This idea that somehow wealth is the enemy is really crazy. It does prove that these liberal socialist text books seem to convince some people that it works. The spruce goose looked good on paper too. A real live example is Cuba. There is a reason this socialst utopia looks like 1959. It doesn't work.

Tony you can deny the obvious if you choose but the rich in this country have spent billions on lobbyists and bribes over the past twenty years getting absolutely ludicrous tax policy written, laws that are self-serving put in place that give them the upper hand against the consumers, I could go on all day about how the u.s. government is a tailor built entity designed to make the rich richer and to protect that wealth, it is a fact Tony, anyone that can't see that would be the stupid one. As for the usual reference to Socialism being evil and a failure, hate to break it to you Tone but all the best countries to live in today are some form of Socialist society, fact is our country is a text book example of how Capitalism can fail it's people, Capitalism + immoral greed = failure.

so you are a socialist... go for it.......how about Greece? If you think immoral greed and political influence is not present in a socialist country, you are wrong. Sadly wrong.

This country has opportunity that does not exist in the rest of the world, too bad you can't see that.

Opportunity is there for all. You either go for it or complain, your choice. For me it is not about just living, it is about success. If yo want to just live then by all means go to a socialist country. The governmen will take care of you, not all that well, but they will.

Tony being that the republicans are trying to make America into a third world country, while don't you just move to one.

Believe me the rich corporations have plenty of countries that have no EPA and they can pollute at will. Is that what you really want for America?

Knowing how much the republicans hate Americans especially the majority of us that voted for President Obama, that death to the planet is preferable to raising taxes on the richest or constraining their profit margin with having to clean up after themselves.

I think the republican tea party bloggers on here are always forgetting we are the majority. We are the majority that voted for President Obama and if you think your constant lies and daily hate for our President is going to change our minds, you are crazier than you sound.

The righties on this board prove daily that voting for another republican for anything would be the worst mistake this country could make. They are illogical and repeat the daily talking point lie and are ever faithful as the republicans throw them under the bus with new taxes for them but not the rich.

Changing your mind never crossed my mind. Exaggerations and out right false statements like the ones you make are really what most Americans are starting to see through. The liberal "talking points" and mis-information along with the just stupid statements will not benefit your cause. Keep it up. It won't get Obama re-elected either.

The President does not pass bills so the Congress must be held at least equally responsible for the lack of jobs.

Brad:

Let us know if you get those answers. Many of us Libbie's have been asking them for a long time now and they just cut and run and scurry back under the rocks.

Have a great Holiday weekend.

Brad- good luck getting responses to your two quesitons.

May I suggest that if you don't, you post them every day on every thread until you do.

And not just "yeah, but YOUR guy.." BS responses- real responses.

@Brad -- Here is the answer to your first question where you wrongly all encompass that the Right ran on a jobs platform. I can probably find more if needed, but I think you get the point. Only in the teenie, tiny closed minds of the left does that exist. You'll probably find most of the freshman congressmen having the same platform.

Here is Rand Paul's campaign platform. I don't see jobs mentioned.

http://www.randpaul2010.com/issues/

Here is Alan West's campaign platform. His jobs area is tied heavily towards tax cuts and reduced spending.

http://www.allenwestforcongress.com/issues

I'll try to look into your other question but neither one deserves a response or have any merit. Sorry, but I believe a quick check on the facts will show that the democrats in about 1975 were responsible for today's cloture policy in the Senate.

One thing the Repubs in the House have been very good at is naming post offices. That's about all they've done of note, other than acting like animals in a zoo when Obama gives a speech to them. I wonder what buffoonery they'll engage in next week when he gives his address on the economy.

Ben-636050

Here is Alan West's campaign platform. His jobs area is tied heavily towards tax cuts and reduced spending.

What? No deregulation??? Get real. That isn't a plan, it's just the usual talking points Republicans have been parroting for the past 30 years.

Ben-636050,

Your comments do not answer my questions. I asked what specific bill has been introduced and how many bills are stalled in the Senate. Please do not "talk around" the questions, but I'm looking for specific answers.

How can you say with any sincereity that my questions lack merit? Republicans in the House have done nothing to create jobs, and Rebuplicans in the Senate have done nothing but block all the job bills previously passed by the formerly Democratic controlled House. Why are these facts 'meritless"? Now, a third question you refuse or can't answer.

Congress would not pass new laws with regulations which would greatly hamper job creation such as Card Check and Cap & Trade. But the President is trying and end run around congress while trying to enact legislation through bureaucratic regulations. Can the President be held responsible for these job killing acts of what appears to be a act of an imperil presidency?

@Brad -- My point is that since the Republicans (especially the freshmen) DID NOT run on a jobs platform, they do not have to come up with a specific jobs bill that fits into "your" criteria. Your premise is wrong. If in fact the answer is "no" when it comes to your criteria, well so be it. They never ran on it.

No one can create jobs in this economic and regulatory climate. Your opinion of jobs bills stalled in the Senate is different than mine. I see the Republicans doing their job in stopping the destructive democrat platform. Besides, you might want to consider asking this question: When the democrats owned Washington when it had a super majority in both houses of Congress and the presidency, why couldn't they stay together and crush the filibusters to produce jobs bills?

I'd say the dems were complacent and did not have conviction for their issues. That lead to the 2010 midterms. Unless something drastically changes in the economy in the next 15 months, the dems will not take back the House and will probably lose the Senate. So, unless the presidency changes (get Hillary to run), nothing will get done.

Ben,

I don't care what the "criteria" is, I just want job bills introduced. To date, the Rebuplicans have not introduced a single jobs bill, no matter what the criteria is.

Is the Republicans' job to stop the "Democratic platform", or is to govern? What is wrong with allowing bills to proceed to the Senate floor for debate? Where the Republicans can put fourth their ideas and negotiate a bill that will help this Country. But, they choose to do nothing but oppose this President, and the American people be damned.

Brad,

Okay. What do you envision a jobs bill to include? What exactly is a jobs bill?

Also, what is wrong when the House passes a bill and sends it to the Senate, for Reid not to table it and call for debate and a vote?

Ben

I'm asking you the question. The Right always wants to deflect answering questions by asking other questions. It's a simple question: What single jobs bill hav the Republican controlled House introduced since taking control?

It takes 60 votes to bring a bill to the floor of the Senate. At one pont the Dems controlled 58 seats, with 2 Independents, Lieberman and Sanders. The Democrats allow differing opinions. They don't vote in lock stock and barrel like the Right does.

Let's debate..Let's get these bills to the floor of the Senate and then debate them, improve them. What ever happened to majority rules? Why should it always take 60 votes to let a bill be debated on the Senate floor? That was not ever the "norm" before the current administration was elected

John-3353456,

Are you able to answer my 2 questions? Or are you here only to flame others?

Feisty and US Navy, every day it is the same old rhetoric from you, just like when the president makes blah, blame, blah, blame speeches. You two need to get a life or get a job. And president needs to look for a new job. For he is about to join the unemployed.

And this BS from you is new. You clowns are so lost it is pathetic. Yes you are destroying this country - no doubt about it but I think the American people realize who is the blame for this ongoing mess and it is not President Obama.

President OBama 2012

Check Obama's approval rating.....yes before you mention Congress, I know......I also know real data and facts will not play a role in your thinking. Leaders take responsibility and losers make excuses. Obama has been in office for 32 months making excuses.

Tony C,

And the Republicans have done what?

What is your point? Obama is the President. For the first 2 years the Democrats had total control. Still control the senate and the presidency. If Obama didn't get what he wanted, why did he declare "recovery summer" a year ago? If he was blocked so much he would have not claimed success.

My point is this President is a failure and the voters are figuring this out...

My point is it is the responsibility for elected officials to govern, not obstruct. We have 3 branches of Government; the Executive, Judicial, and Legislative. The Republicans, as well as the Democrats in the Senate and House are responsible for Governing. To date all I see the Republicans doing is obstructing.

Tony just loves to repeat the total control lie as he counts Lieberman as a Democrat after he campaigned for McCain. He knows that it is not true but boy he feels so proud to lie for the party of the rich.

My point stands. Obama's approval rating is low and going lower if he continues to do things that are counter productive to growing an economy.

I understand the structure of government. The obstructing "talking point" is just that.

As far as the loon, Americans First, I have no idea what he is talking about. He just rants and complains. I am sure what ever has transpired badly in his life was someone else's fault.

My shovel was ready...was yours? LOL

Harginger, the Bureau of Labor Statistics tells us since the first stimulus the US economy has lost a net 2.4 million jobs. If the second stimulus works that well we will have unemployment at 25% or 30%. Telling us it worked is political demagoguery, looking at the statistics is political reality. With 37% job approval, the President has no political capital outside of the far left to use to drive this program. When you do the same thing as failed before and expect different results in the definition of stupidity.

Ray W. what is the Republican silver bullet to put people back to work? I mean you cats blather on mindlessly every day about how everything that's been tried is a colossal failure, say everyone in Congress were Republican and you had a Republican President, what is this magical Republican revaluation that they are going to pull out of their a$$ and save eveyone going to be? Do tell.

Quoting Eugene Robinson? You might as well be quoting Lenin or Mao.

Don't forget Castro....

These guys will never, never hold Obama accountable. Heck, Obama doesn't hold himself accountable. If it wasn't for blame and excuses, his lectures,,,ops speeches would only last a few minutes.

BUSH is the cause and that is a Fact.

Job1 I don't disagree that past Presidents have caused some of the mess we are in today. I do not however know of any job where you get a pass on your performance based on how bad the last guy did. How well would that work for you in the real world? Time to stop making excuses, playing politics and start making progress.

The problem is we need a cure...what we got was blame and excuses for the past 32 months......looks like we are in for more of the same for the next 16 months. Obama is finished after that....

Obama spends all his time reminding himself and us of the problem and doesn't do anything that works to fit it. If he was a repair man of some type he would be long since out of business.....

KSW

You are barking up the wrong tree with Job1. "The Real World" unfortunately for Job1 is the 10th grade. Homework, dances, football games....

I believe Job1 is the Child of one of the "Popular" Left posters here, hence the inane drivel that he offers each day.

Eugene Robinson? You have got to be kidding. I don't even think Feisty would quote Eugene Robinson.

It's kinda like, White Collar Trash, is the leader of the low information, stuck on stupid voters that post on this site.

Thanks Job1, well written piece with way too much truth for the righties on this board. Thank god they are the minority.

To put it in perspective in a new poll, the tea party were less popular than Muslims and Atheists. You wouldn't know it from all these hate filled post defending the rich before country.

I wonder if the Ryan bill and all the tea republicans voting to privatize social security could be part of the reason for all their new found unpopularity?

For the love of America Obama 2012

We have watched the republican obstruct any bill that could have a chance to create jobs or turn our country around. I would think that as a republican you would be ashamed of what you have done to this country.

The republicans took a thriving country and turned it into a disaster, the Democrats have had to fight republicans every step of the way to make the gains we have made.

The majority of us voted for President Obama and your lies about what the Democrats have done are not believed by anyone with the IQ of a 10 year old.