Along with the Roveian Doctrine of the early 1990’s the New TP/GOP tactics of holding American Citizens “Hostage” for political gains is back in the news. Last week we heard about No Federal Relief funds for the earthquake victims unless the funds are offset by Spending Cuts – Cantor. Just like the crap they (TP/GOP) pulled in the contrived and manufactured Debt Ceiling crisis. Well now as reported by the Washington Post Cantor is at it again. This time with hurricane Irene that many say will be one of the 10 most costly storms to hit this country (maybe even one of the top 5) and 40 deaths and counting.

“Despite the devastation caused by Hurricane Irene this weekend, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) today stood by his call that no more money be allocated for disaster relief unless it is offset by spending cuts elsewhere. The Washington Post reported this morning that FEMA will need more money than it currently has to deal with the storm’s aftermath and is already diverting funds from other recent disasters to deal with the hurricane, but Cantor’s comments suggest Republicans won’t authorize more funds without a fight”.

I told you all that the TP/GOP was going to use the “Hostage” tactic every chance they get. Wait until November when this comes home to roost again.

The TP/GOP has no plans for a meaningful Jobs bill at all. To them it is going to be about Tax Cuts and repealing regulations. This is their job bill. The problem is that this plan has not worked in the past, just look at the last 10 years under the lowest overall tax liability in this country in 60 years has not created a ton of jobs and they want to get rid of some of the regulations that prevent Wall Street from another meltdown. This is not a jobs bill any more than the other bills proposed by the TP/GOP were about “Fiscal Responsibility”. This is just more smoke and mirrors to hide their real agenda of destroying our government and the working class in this country.

Bachmann claims the Hurricane that has killed 40+ people and on target to be one of the 10 most costly says it is a message from God. This lady is now a full fledge flake. She tries to walk it back now – too late Michelle, the bell has been rung.

Perry still on the kick that Social Security is a “ponzi” scheme. Perry claims he never said “Medicare” was unconstitutional. The problem is that is exactly what he said in his book “Fed Up” where he says Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are all “Unconstitutional”. “Liar Liar Pants on Fire”

Do you see the pattern? Big lies all of them and then they try to either deny it or walk it back. They all make Karl Rove “proud”. These people have no shame and will say what ever they think they can get away with to try and win back the White House.

A real interesting series of three graphs from:

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152201/3_reality-based_charts_your_right-wing_relatives_will_have_a_hard_time_ignoring/

#1: Government spending increased dramatically under Bush. It has not increased much under Obama. Note that this chart does not reflect any spending cuts resulting from deficit-cutting deals.

#2: The Budget Deficit – President Obama has not increased the deficit/debt more than President Bush. I have written about this many times but now there is a very easy to read graph.

NOTE: The numbers in these two charts come from Budget of the United States Government: Historical Tables Fiscal Year 2012. They are just the amounts that the government spent and borrowed, period, anyone can go look then up. People who claim that Obama "tripled the deficit" are either misled or are trying to mislead.

#3: Did the Stimulus Work – Well yes it did. I have written on this as well. See the graph.

These easy to read graphs show that President Obama did increase spending but not at the levels the TP/GOP claim, nor did he increase the debt/deficit more than President Bush and the Stimulus did work and it did not cost $1 Trillion Dollars. It was about $800 Billion and 50% of that was tax cuts. The actual Stimulus piece was about $400 Billion and it did work, the problem was that it was not any where near big enough and it was not targeted.

Politico has a story this morning about Barry’s big new jobs plan to be revealed after Labor Day (excerpts below). After reading the whole story, it seems the “big new jobs plan” is just more of the same old, same old, Keynesian deficit spending stimulus that didn’t work with the 2009 nearly $1 trillion Porkulus bill. All I can think of is what Albert Einstein said in defining insanity: “it’s doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

The second point that is clear in the article is that the looney left isn’t really interested in creating new jobs. They want Barry to go with a huge Son of Porkulus bill that everyone knows cannot pass in congress to score political points to be used in the 2012 election.

Why am I not the least bit surprised about both of these issues??

BTW, today is St. Warren of the Left’s 81^st birthday. Since he believes he doesn’t pay enough in taxes, may I suggest he celebrate his birthday by sending Barry a check for $1,000,000,000? Barry could then issue a proclamation that recognizes St. Warren for sponsoring six hours worth of today’s deficit spending.

Will Obama go bold on jobs plan?
By: Carrie Budoff Brown
August 30, 2011 07:58 AM EDT

As President Barack Obama prepares his long-awaited jobs plan, a major question is driving the debate inside the White House: How bold should he go?

Liberals are pressing the president to shoot big, urging a dramatic infusion of cash and warning against a Republican-lite proposal that fails to boost the economy or his reelection prospects.

But so far, Obama and his senior aides are describing the package in more down-to-earth terms, as a “reasonable” set of proposals that Republicans will be hard-pressed to reject.

This disconnect suggests Obama risks another clash with his progressive base, which sees the post-Labor Day speech as critical to salvaging not only his bid for a second term but also his legacy as president. The liberal wing is launching a public and private offensive to shape the package, concerned that the president will once again write a plan weighted more toward enticing Capitol Hill Republicans than winning over a jobs-starved public.

For their part, progressives aren’t content with waiting to see what Obama offers up.

After two years of feeling burned by a president who repeatedly sought Republican votes, with little success, a coalition led by labor unions, MoveOn, and the Campaign for America’s Future is urging Obama to ditch his “jobs-lite” agenda. They want him to go for the domestic equivalent of shock-and-awe — a stimulus bill with hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending on veteran and youth jobs programs, infrastructure, mortgage assistance and direct aid to states.

“Even though [Obama] knows Republicans will not allow it to pass Congress, this is a debate that will be settled only by the election, and he needs to go into the election telling the truth about what it will take to get out of this perpetual high-unemployment rut that we’re in now,” said Roger Hickey, co-director of the Campaign for America’s Future, a progressive strategy group.

President Obama goes big all the time. Tea- Pottys take the low road evertime.

Blame Eric Cantor and His Tea Bag Chums

Despite the devastation caused by Hurricane Irene this weekend, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) today stood by his call that no more money be allocated for disaster relief unless it is offset by spending cuts elsewhere.

With initial damage assessments from the storm potentially in the tens of billions of dollars, the Obama administration will need to request supplemental funding from Congress, possibly provoking another fight over federal spending as a new congressional “supercommittee” prepares to identify trillions of dollars in government spending cuts.

Last week, after a Virginia earthquake that rattled much of the East Coast, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said that any new money for FEMA disaster assistance would need to be offset by spending cuts.

On Saturday, House Appropriations Committee Chairman Harold Rogers (R-Ky.) called on the Senate to quickly pass the House GOP’s version of the annual Homeland Security spending measure, which includes $1 billion in additional money for the disaster fund this year and $2.65 billion for fiscal 2012.

The Obama administration “has let the fund reach critically low levels, putting continued recovery at risk, without a plan for the future or a clear method for dealing with new disasters,” Rogers said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/fema-to-pay-for-irene-damage-delays-funds-for-rebuilding-in-tornado-ravaged-areas/2011/08/28/gIQAJsDQlJ_story.html

I guess that it is all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstrap--

MLK quote

Hey, ERIC PANDER, cut the funds from your rich buddies. That money would be a tremendous help to the lesser.

TIDBIT:

President Obama will outline a plan to create jobs rebuilding roads, bridges and schools. Obama also plans to discuss his strategy on getting his policies passed despite the Republican opposition, and his battle for re-election over the next 17 months.

President Obama also will share some insight on the impact of Hurricane Irene and what he had planned to say during the postponed dedication to the Dr. Martin Luther King Memorial.

The president’s interview will be re-broadcast in its entirety on Monday, Sept. 5th.

http://www.rolandsmartin.com/blog/index.php/2011/08/29/president-obama-on-the-tom-joyner-show-tomorrow-morning/

What we should be asking is what is the TP/GOP controlled House going to do to create Jobs. After all this was their campaign promise to Americans - Jobs Jobs and Jobs.

We know what President Obama wants like a targeted infrastructure bill, could really use it now after Irene. Keep the payroll tax holiday, trade agreements etc. He has had 4 Jobs bills blocked this ear alone by the 112th Congress. Last year they blocked the infrastructure bill as well. President Obama is trying and the TP/GOP is blocking. That is where the problem is -

We still have no idea what the TP/GOP is going to propose other than more tax cuts for the 2% and repeal the regulations on Wall Street and Environment Controls on the big polluters of our air and water supply. That is not a jobs bill.

President Obama needs to go HUGE!

_______________________________________

I have the perfect spokesperson for that effort. There is an upstate NY car dealer named Billy Fuccillo that puts out the worst, most annoying TV commercials, and they're on all the time on every channel.

His tag line in every one is 'IT'S HUGE!!!!!" lol!!!

http://www.fuccillo.com/

We all wait with bated breath for the president to reveal his new plan for kick starting the economy next week. But if the nomination of Alan Krueger as new chair of the Council of Economic Advisers is a clue, we'll just be seeing more of the same failed policies of the past. The WaPo describes Krueger as "a center-left economist in the mold of many top economic policymakers in the Obama administration like Austin Goolsbee and Larry Summers." OMG, just what we need…

The real problem is an administration that has been scaring cash-hoarding businesses into a historic hiring paralysis with nonstop talk of higher taxes, more national debt, more regulations, us vs. them class-warfare rhetoric, threatened government shutdowns of private plants, and higher-priced energy. That's what the former apostle of hope and change has brought to the table, and until he recognizes the error of his ways and repents for these egregious sins there will be no light at the end of this economic tunnel.

So the real issue isn't going "big" or going "small" in the president's forthcoming economic plan. The real issue is tacking right vs maintaining a leftist course of failure. And with the Krueger nomination, it doesn't look like this president will be changing that course any time soon.

The American public (especially independents) is no longer in favor of stimulating the economy by spending more money, but they do want some REAL solution to this wheezing economy.

Well then how about some more of those stimulating tax cuts?

I mean, they've proven to be such a success... right?

Let's be honest here - the Tealiban will continue to hold this country hostage in their transparent attempt to make sure the President serves one term...

This country and the people who are suffering be damned as long as they GET theirs!

Permission to Impeach:

MA Police Arrested Obama For Drunk Driving Wednesday Night—Hits Police Car, Fails Breathalyzer!
http://michaelgraham.com/archives/ma-police-arrest-obama-for-drunk-driving-wednesday-night-mdash-hits-police-car-fails-breathalyzer/

After all, Onyango ‘Omar’ Obama, the guy arrested last week in Massachusetts for allegedly ‘operating a vehicle under the influence of alcohol’ and who was allegedly not legally in the United States, is the son of ….. deep breath, let’s get this right ….. the President’s grandfather’s third wife (the President’s father was born to his grandfather’s second wife).

In other words, Onyango and the President are almost one, they are so close

=======================================================

The wing nuts are so into the Obama frenzy they will do anything to discret him including running false headlines.

No wonder it's been said the T-Party can go "staight to hell"

Boy ole boy, The Republican Congress has had a running scared five weeks off. Where were the large town hall meetings? It looks like they are getting the message that the American people are getting tried of them and their attacks against the working class and their loyalty to the likes of the rich and Grover Norquist. These Republicans are the same people who are in bed with the economic mafia, whose members consist of people such as the Koch Brothers.

The Democrats are more seriously eager to embrace tax increases, and their message is being hammered home to the American People with polls showing that’s what we want instead of cutting spending which may mean serious cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, and that has had at least the potential to change the politics of the tax issue.

Hopefully, the Republicans who have signed the Grover Norquist pledge know that their time in office could be limited. You can’t cut deep into domestic spending that hurts the poor and the middle class. They are the only group that is being asked to sacrifice. It’s all common sense that the Republicans just don’t understand. The secret is to raise revenue.

When it comes to jobs the let’s hope that the President will continue to use the bully pulpit and take off the gloves and challenge these Right Wing Extremist in front of the American People, and not take no for an answer. The President can keep hammering the jobs issue home which will force these Extremist in Congress to put up or shut up and make them do what’s right or force them to tell the American People NO to jobs.

The American People will rally and once again, We the People will be working with the President and shut this Right Wing Extremist and this Economic Mafia up, and force them to work with the President and do what they promised to do, and that is to create jobs and stop the focus on deep cuts, and instead raise revenue.

Feisty -

President Obama needs to go HUGE!

At this point he has nothing to lose!

Wow Feisty, that certainly smacks of desperation on your part.

You are right though, the president has already lost everything, so it doesn't really matter what he does now.

Feisty:

The TP/GOP has no Jobs Bill, why do you think all the RWNJS are screaming at President Obama forgetting that the TP/GOP has blocked 4 jobs bills just this year alone and the Infrastructure Bill was blocked by filibuster last year with 59 Yes votes.

See, it is the same crap again. Trash every single Job Bill that our President proposes and then blame him for NO jobs.

They make Karl Rove "Proud" do they not. Trash all the jobs bills and then blame President Obama for what they actually did.

How many Job Bills have the Democrats Proposed this Year (2011)

June 21, 2011

http://democrats.senate.gov/2011/06/21/reid-if-republicans-block-another-jobs-bill-it-will-be-clear-they-care-more-about-right-wing-ideology-than-creating-jobs/

Washington, D.C.–Nevada Senator Harry Reid made the following remarks today on the Senate floor regarding Republican attempts to block the Economic Development Administration reauthorization. Below are his remarks as prepared for delivery:

This afternoon we will have a cloture vote on reauthorization of the Economic Development Administration, a law we've depended on for going on 50 years.

This is the fourth jobs bill Democrats have brought to the floor this year. I hope Republicans will not allow it to be the fourth jobs bill to wither on the vine thanks to their obstructionist tactics.

This is a good piece of legislation with decades of helping American businesses in economically distressed communities to innovate, grow and hire.

In the last five years alone, the Economic Development Administration has created 314,000 jobs. It has successfully turned every one dollar in federal investment into seven dollars in private sector investment.

It is good legislation that will create good jobs for Americans who need them. Unfortunately, that's not enough to win bipartisan support among the Republicans here in D.C. who are more interested in destroying Medicare than creating jobs.

The Small Business Innovation Research bill was a good piece of legislation, too. That also died in the Senate last month under a pile of unrelated amendments.

The bills the Senate passed this year reauthorizing the Federal Aviation Administration and reforming America's patent system were good legislation, too. They would have created or saved half a million jobs. They made it out of the Senate alive, but now they are languishing in the Republican-controlled House.

Will the Economic Development Authority suffer the same fate? I certainly hope not. Because the American people need jobs. And if Republicans block another jobs bill – their fourth this year – it will be clear that they are more interested in right wing ideology than creating much-needed employment.

None of the 90 amendments – most of which have nothing to do with this bill – is important enough to stop a jobs bill that could put hundreds of thousands of people to work.

Once again, today's vote is about priorities.

Americans have been very clear: job creation is their number one priority.

Democrats share that priority. Republicans don't. We will never stop bringing jobs bills to the floor. And we will never stop fighting the other side's obstructionism to try to get them passed.

Again, Republicans have a different priority: ending Medicare.

They have worked hard to block three bills that could have created and saved hundreds of thousands of jobs during tough economic times. But they have pushed even harder for their ideological plan to kill Medicare as we know it.

The Republican plan would put insurance company bureaucrats between seniors and their doctors. Every senior would pay $6,400 more for health care in its first year alone. And it would force more than 7 million seniors to pay more for cancer screenings and treatments beginning next year.

Americans have been clear about this, too: they have resoundingly rejected this ideological plan to hurt seniors.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a shred of evidence that my Republican friends are getting the message on Medicare. Today they'll have a chance to show the American people whether they've heard the message on jobs. I hope they have, because so much is at stake. And America is watching.

And this does not include the $50 Billion Dollar Infrastructure Bill that would have created 35,000 jobs for every $1 Billion invested. This Bill was 100 % paid for by repealing the incentives to Big Oil. It passed the House, got a majority vote in the Senate and was filibustered by the right – So no jobs bill.

The point is that President Obama has been trying to create jobs and the GOP/TP has been busy stopping him and then lies and try to claim the President Obama has done nothing. This is not true. The only thing that is true is that the GOP/TP has opposed and blocked virtually every single bill that would create jobs and stimulate the economy.

It is the GOP/TP that created this mess to begin with and are doing everything in their power to make it worse by adopting the same failed agenda of the previous administration.

The GOP/TP has blocked the creation of millions of jobs and has demanding spending cuts that are going to cost us hundreds of thousand more. This will increase the deficit not lower it. Much needed revenues will be driven down at both the State and Federal Level. This will further put pressure on a weak economy and do not be surprised if the Tea Party causes another Credit Rating downgrade. The 112^th Congress will go into the record books for causing two Credit Rating Downgrades under their LEADERSHIP. They are already in the record books as the most "dysfunctional" and "unproductive Congress" in History and the cause of one Credit Rating Downgrade. So what do they do, put us on track for another downgrade.

"President Obama needs to go HUGE!"

As in WPA huge!

Time to pull the plug on the GOP obstructionists.

Go big, there's simply no question. Average Americans understand the GOPTP is failing...they want a President who proposes something DIFFERENT, not one who tries to calculate something that's just enough different to have some effect. Propose a REAL solution and fight the Conservatives hammer and tong. How can that be the wrong approach when the Republican Party has a 59% disapproval rate?

Oama does it again. Puts some taxpayers cash on the table and buys a "clunker" big or small.. LOL Same result.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Feisty:

The TP/GOP has no Jobs Bill, why do you think all the RWNJS are screaming at President Obama forgetting that the TP/GOP has blocked 4 jobs bills just this year alone and the Infrastructure Bill was blocked by filibuster last year with 59 Yes votes.

See, it is the same crap again. Trash every single Job Bill that our President proposes and then blame him for NO jobs.

Navy

Wow I was thinking tat same thing. Where is the jobs plan? Really its a JOB-LESS Plan

It's all about cutting taxes on wealthy individuals and corporations—is just an amplified version of the same tax policies that helped get us into our current mess.

Great post Navy. Hopefully, the dimwits will look at the graphs and realize numbers don't LIE!

Propose a REAL solution and fight the Conservatives hammer and tong.

If the hostage takers continue it will soon lead to pitchforks & torches!

I has the opportunity to talk to a reasonable Republican (yes, I know, they are not extinct, yet) lol

Even though he is not a 'fan' of the President he is ashamed & embarrassed at the freak show the once Grand Old Party has evolved too...

And MAD as HELL at the gridlock the obstructionists are causing in Congrees!!!

As he said, this is about the PEOPLE not the PARTY!

Great post, Job1. Everyone I talk to asks the same question -- why is it that the middle class has to sacrifice while Wall Street got us into this mess and continues to have everything handed to them?

Here are some interesting questions that I can't wait for the answers:

If liberal approaches work so well, why are so many people choosing to pack their bags and desert some of the most progressive, pro-labor, big-government states in the union?

And if uncompromising conservatism is a cruel, fraudulent disaster, why do small-government, pro-business, low-tax, gun-toting, and churchgoing states draw such a disproportionate number of America’s internal immigrants?

The story goes on to say the following:

In the emerging presidential campaign, it’s easy to see a version of these questions dominating the debate. Why should anyone choose to endorse liberal, Democratic policies when a single year (2009-10) saw 880,000 residents packing up their belongings to place Barack Obama’s Illinois in their rear-view mirror, while 782,000 new arrivals helped drive the robust economy in Rick Perry’s Texas?

The shift in national demographics has already rearranged the playing field for the upcoming presidential election. States that Barack Obama carried were the biggest losers in the reapportionment that followed the 2010 Census, with New York and Ohio dropping two electoral votes each. Texas, meanwhile, gained a whopping four votes all by its Lone Star lonesome self. Even in the unlikely event that Obama carried exactly the same states he carried in 2008, he’d still win six fewer electoral votes in 2012. Even more tellingly, if the epic Bush-Gore battle of 2000 played out on the new Electoral College map, with the two candidates carrying precisely the states they each won 11 years ago, the result would have been a far more clear-cut GOP victory margin of 33 electoral votes (instead of the five-vote nail-biter recorded in history books).

Great article from Michael Medved and the reason the looney left is scared and crapping in their pants. Their comedic attempts on here are just that -- jokes.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/27/census-data-shows-people-are-moving-from-blue-to-red-states.html

Great information, USN -- why do we have to rely on common citizens to publicize this? Where are the Democratic spokesmen working to get this out?

To the Democratic party -- WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET OUT THERE AND GET YOUR MESSAGING IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC?

President Obama needs to go HUGE!

I think we know that this is liberal wishful thinking. The liberals have been trying very hard to coach Mr. Obama for the last few weeks on what they'd like to see him do.

"Back Congress into a corner Mr. President." "Make them oppose your jobs bill Mr. President." And by "congress" they mean Republicans.

Thi void aurgument and bumper sticker slogan from the left "Where's the jobs Boehner?" is a very valid question. I want an answer too.

My question is where were you for the last 2 1/2 years when it was ok to worry about Cash for Clunkers, Dollars for Dishwashers, ObamaCare and DADT instead of jobs, jobs, jobs?

Hypocrite: the man who murdered both his parents... pleaded for mercy on the grounds that he was an orphan. ~Abraham Lincoln

Why won't you on the far left just admit that President Obama is a failure? He bought the job he has and he doesn't have a clue what to do. He hires a bunch of wall street people and carreer politicians to totally screw up this country. He has failed. It is time for the left to find a viable candidate for next years presidential election.

Whatever Obama and his administration come up with you can be sure that it will target the wrong areas and have no real affect on job creation. Obama lacks the experience and key leadership skills necessary to devise policies that will actually stimulate job creation. Instead, he will create policy that will further plunge this country into debt. We need serious leadership in the WH and Obama is not it!

As he said, this is about the PEOPLE not the PARTY!

EXACTLY why the Tea Party came t fruition in '08!

American citizens -

Please remember in the upcoming elections when you go to the polls the actions and arrogance of people like Cantor, the Republicans and the TPOTTY people when you go to vote. Remember the destruction and turmoil they have caused to our Country. Vote them all out.

early release of jobs speech outline:

infrastructure, children, investment, congress bad, Tea Party=terrorists, tweet.

margin notes: do not use: saved or created, shovel ready, or green jobs.

To the Democratic party -- WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET OUT THERE AND GET YOUR MESSAGING IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC?

Umm, I think have been for the last few years but the majority of Americans aren't agreeing with the socialist message.

Job1:

Outstanding Post.

What goes around comes around. I saw a piece where one of the Norquist loyalists got questioned by a audience member on why he "renounced" his oath to the American People in favor of a vow to a political pundit.

This is where the AINOS crowd has gone. They basically have turned their collective backs on the plights of the American People. The really repugnant part is these are many of the same guys McConnell, Boehner, Cantor and others that created the problem. These people have no moral or shame at all. The people in WI have banned the TP/GOP from the Labor Day festivities.

California Tom

We will remember the destruction that this administration has brought to the country. If you think the 2010 elections were a fluke you just wait until the public is reminded of the first two years of this progressive/liberal administration.

1/20/2013 the end of an error.

EXACTLY why the Tea Party came t fruition in '08!

mmnord -

The 'John Birchers' have been around for a lot longer than 2008.

@John B -- The answer to your questions is -- The Democrat Party is smart enough not to spread lies.

The average recovery time for a recession is 2.3 quarters.

Out of the last 11 recessions, no recovery has exceeded 3 quarters.

Obama's recovery is at 8 quarters and worse is showing no signs of moving.

Simply appalling.

Giving Obama more money to create jobs is like buying a laptop for a monkey to research bannas.

Neither one have a clue what to do with it.

Please remember in the upcoming elections when you go to the polls

Thanks for the reminder Tom!

No where in all of their crowing & cock walking about the shellacking in 2010 do they mention only 39% of the electorate VOTED!

Now we have to live with the results of apathy & complacency...

Obama/Biden 2012 - get you butt out there and VOTE!

Why won't you on the far left just admit that President Obama is a failure? He bought the job he has and he doesn't have a clue what to do. He hires a bunch of wall street people and carreer politicians to totally screw up this country. He has failed. It is time for the left to find a viable candidate for next years presidential election.

Why do you people on the right not admit the the TP/GOP Party is the New Neo-Nazi/Fascist party?

Look, I do not hate people – I hate some of their ideologies. I will never support any party that wants to repeal our “Civil Rights”. I will never support a party that is anti-gay, racist, sexist and religious intolerant. I will never support a Party that is NOT pro Education, Science, Medical Research or does not believe in Social Programs that help people get back on their feet to become productive citizens again. I will never support a Party that has an “Oligarchy” agenda that creates a “Society” of “those that have and those that NEVER WILL” and does not believe in Women’s Rights, etc, etc. I guess that means I will never support or vote for the New TP/GOP Party since these are your new found values and they are not American Values – not by a long shot.

With all the crap and lies that the TP/GOP has been touting as truth and the American way Ms. Waters said it best.

"I'm not afraid of anybody, This is a tough game. You can't be intimidated. You can't be frightened. And as far as I'm concerned, the 'tea party' can go straight to hell."

Ms. Waters I agree with you and so does many real Americans if the recent polls are to be believed. While President Obama’s numbers go up and down like a yoyo, one thing remains consistent – the numbers of Congress and the TP/GOP are lower and in many cases by double digits.

President Obama in 2012 –

California Tom
Please remember in the upcoming elections when you go to the polls the actions and arrogance of people like Cantor, the Republicans and the TPOTTY people when you go to vote. Remember the destruction and turmoil they have caused to our Country. Vote them all out.

Only the people of the 7th district of Virginia will have the opportunity to vote for Mr. Cantor. As I have said before, politics is a local game.

Today is St. Warren of the Left’s 81^st birthday and it looks like he gave himself and his Berkshire Hathaway stockholders an early birthday present with BH’s $5 billion investment in Bank of America. For a guy who professes to believe he’s not paying enough in taxes, he sure does know how to work the Internal Revenue Code for all the loophole goodies it’s got. Today’s WSJ editorial page has a piece discussing the fact that this investment will earn BH $300 million a year and that the IRC allows a 70% exclusion on dividends a corporation receives form an investment in another corporation. That means that BH will earn $210 million a year completely free of any corporate income taxes. Also, since BH doesn’t pay any stockholder dividends, Barry won’t even get the 15% 1040 personal income tax on shareholder dividends. Let’s also remember that St. Warren is using an estate tax loophole to avoid paying tens of billions in federal estate taxes.

Way to go, St. Warren. You are the P.T. Barnum of the early 21st century.

"The Washington Post sums up the current debate in the West Wing regarding President Obama's upcoming economic plan: Does he go big and pick a fight with Congress? Or does he try to craft some smaller measures that could pass a divided Congress?"

Nothing he can do at this point will make a difference - his job killing legislation to date has made that impossible, and he's more interested in the 'blame game', which is his only chance in next year's elections.

He will 'Go Big' even though he knows that it won't pass because he thinks he can find someone or something to blame for his dismal performance - Bush, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, the Euro, the Middle East, al Qaida, the Republican House, hot weather, flooding, Wall Street, greedy businesses, the 'rich', anything but himself.

And how's this for the 'Blame Game' - The total amount of spending cuts imposed for 2012 by those "Radical and Extreme" Tea Party Republicans in the House amounted to a whopping $20 Billion, which is about one-half of 1% of the estimated $3.7 Trillion in spending for 2012. I can see why they were characterized as "Terrorists" by top Democrats - how could they be so Draconian? By way of comparison, Obama increased spending in 2009 alone by $535 Billion, an increase of 18% over 2008.

Feisty, are we sure it is going to be Obama on the ticket? Will Clinton throw her hat into the ring?

The 'John Birchers' have been around for a lot longer than 2008.

Tell me when you used the term or name "Tea Party" before 2008? No different than the term "Progressive".....Progressive was just a bogus term at an attempt to rebrand the far left.

Bill, Fairfax VA

So the real issue isn't going "big" or going "small" in the president's forthcoming economic plan. The real issue is tacking right vs maintaining a leftist course of failure. And with the Krueger nomination, it doesn't look like this president will be changing that course any time soon.

Bill

Remember, Senate Republicans had repeatedly blocked President Barack Obama’s nomination of Diamond, an MIT professor of economics and the 2010 Nobel Prize winner. Even someone who won a Nobel Prize for economics wasn‘t good enough for a bunch of tea- nuts and the rest of the GOP.

The course will change when Tea-NUTS and corporate puppets in their body stop being lap dogs.

The more these nuts block nominations, stall legislation, and impose bigotry on people unlike them the more things will change for them. In other words they go down and mire in their own hell they created .

So if the President goes big does that mean Stimulus 2 will be structured the same way as Stimulus 1?

Will it contain tax cuts because there aren't enough "shovel-ready" jobs?

Does it mean that states will receive funds to spend as they wish?

The biggest question is, if it is as big or bigger than Stimulus 1, and the current debt ceiling is projected to rise by 2.3T simply to get the Administration through to 2013, where is the money going to come from?

We will remember the destruction that this administration has brought to the country. If you think the 2010 elections were a fluke you just wait until the public is reminded of the first two years of this progressive/liberal administration.

Yes, we will remember that the 112th Congress is the worst in US History and the people responsible (TP/GOP) for the first every "Credit Rating" downgrade in our History and the TP/GOP is working on making it worse yet. They are still taking "Hostages" for political gain - the very thing that the S&P said caused the "Downgrade".

It isthe TP/GOP of the last 10 years that has the sh!ty record and it will be in the History Books. President Obama will go down in History as the man that tried to move this country forward. The repugs will go down in History as the ones that moved us backwards, caused the greatest recession since the great depression and caused the "Credit Rating" downgrade and destroyed democracy as we know it today.

Get you facts straight.

No where in all of their crowing & cock walking about the shellacking in 2010 do they mention only 39% of the electorate VOTED!

EXACTLY on par with mid term elections since 1960....lol....And btw, I cannot even remeber the last time I "Cock Walked" LMAO....tool

Eric Cantor is proposing that any additional funds needed for disaster relief should be offset by corresponding spending reductions elsewhere in the budget. And the left is aghast.

There's nothing wrong with a government role in responding to disasters, presuming of course government agencies can actually get their acts together and provide meaningful relief to the afflicted. But there is something wrong with insisting the government provide assistance regardless of the fiscal consequences. It's that very mindset that has helped mightily to get us into the mess we're in. Yet the left continues to ignore fiscal realities to jump on increased spending as the preferred solution to this and other problems.

The tempest created by Cantor is just a microcosm of the real issue: The left is part of the problem in this country, not the solution. And until they recognize the futility of their philosophy – or more likely, are tossed out of office en masse (again) – our current problems will continue to defy solution.

@Beverly -- It seems to me that the efforts of the left loons on here are misdirected. The Republicans will not change and if they control one or both of the houses of Congress (or at least have that ability to stop legislation even when they are in the minority LMAO), re-electing obama will be futile. Nothing will change! I know you want to hope but you also have to be realistic. Is the looney left just trying to look to blame someone else for their failures?? Does that make you feel good??? It shouldn't. That's why Hillary in 2012 should make more sense for the dems than obama. Just sayin'.

P.S. -- Still crickets from my 1.21 post. I wonder why that is?

How's this for the 'Blame Game' - The total amount of spending cuts imposed for 2012 by those "Radical and Extreme" Tea Party Republicans in the House amounted to a whopping $20 Billion, which is about one-half of 1% of the estimated $3.7 Trillion in spending for 2012. I can see why they were characterized as "Terrorists" by top Democrats - how could they be so Draconian? By way of comparison, Obama increased spending in 2009 alone by $535 Billion, an increase of 18% over 2008.

It deserved its own post, since the amount of 'blame' cast upon the 'Tea Party' is completely out of whack with what really happened. The left makes it sound like that $20 Billion cut will "cast the whole World into a depression".

By the way - Any 'promises of future cuts' by the current Congress beyond 2012 are meaningless, since the new Congress that will be elected in 2012 will not be bound by anything said by the current Congress. Each new Congress gets to set its own Budgets.

Why does it come as NO suprise the idiot from Albany is a used car groupie

_______________________________________

Nasty Redhead: As I said in my post he "puts out the worst, most annoying TV commercials". In fact, he is the only human being that I have ever seen that could give you competition in a contest for the title of Most Incessantly Useless Human Being on the Planet.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mmnord1969

The 'John Birchers' have been around for a lot longer than 2008.

Tell me when you used the term or name "Tea Party" before 2008? No different than the term "Progressive".....Progressive was just a bogus term at an attempt to rebrand the far left.

Except that Progressives are not bigots. The John Birch cabal are ardent racists

The JBS simultaneously discouraged overt displays of racism, while it promoted policies that had the effect of racist oppression by its opposition to the Civil Rights movement.

http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/jbs.html

The 'John Birchers' have been around for a lot longer than 2008.

Tell me when you used the term or name "Tea Party" before 2008? No different than the term "Progressive".....Progressive was just a bogus term at an attempt to rebrand the far left.

An admission that "Tea Party" is just a rebranding of the John Birch Society. Nice.

Straight from the Albany Ideologue: "Politico has a story this morning about Barry’s big new jobs plan to be revealed after Labor Day (excerpts below). After reading the whole story, it seems the “big new jobs plan” is just more of the same old, same old, Keynesian deficit spending stimulus that didn’t work with the 2009 nearly $1 trillion Porkulus bill. All I can think of is what Albert Einstein said in defining insanity: “it’s doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” (See his post at 1.2.)

Two points. First, let's look at that insanity thing. Republicans have been trotting out tax cuts as the only answer to our economic problems. Jeez folks, we've had them for eleven years now. They don't work. Let's hear it from the Republican sheep - "Hey, what we need is tax cuts." Same old, same old! Insanity, anyone?

As far as Keynesian deficit spending - this is part of the continuing effort to dumb down the G.O.P. Deficit spending is deficit spending. This has nothing to do with Keynesian theory. Indeed, Keynesian theory is nothing more than a rehash of principles laid out long ago by a fellow named Joseph. (You will find a summary of his work in a book called The Holy Bible.) The truth is that Keynesian Economics have never been implemented anywhere.

Feisty has called our attention to the Rovian Playbook as presented by a couple of political science scholars. US Navy actually enumerated the plays. John B noted their posts and correlated their worthless talking points with the plays as enumerated by USN. Skip Nicholson even told the shills that they were following the points, even as he laughed at them manically, and still they continued. (Nicholson was hammered on one valid point. I believe it was jollyoldsoul who took him to task for using the name "Skip". Now there's some serious, substantive criticism for you.)

That's what these clowns do. The President is "Barry". The stimulus that actually worked is "Porkulus"? Yup, those third-grade taunts as well as the outright lies are quite persuasive, aren't they? Unfortunately, that leads directly to the question of the day.....

Should President Obama go big? It is so tempting to say, hell yes. Grab a megaphone and tell the truth. The Republicans are obstructionists, they fight every single attempt to get the economy going, and they are determined to reduce us to serf status.

While that is the absolute truth, the problem is the G.O.P. spin machine has worked its wonders. Too many people continue to believe that the deficit is very, very important. That's true, and many Republicans believe this, but they don't know why except that they're Republicans, so it must be true and they don't need to know why.

They have no rational explanation for their belief that cutting spending is the ONLY answer to balancing our budget. It is an arithmetical fact that spending cuts alone will not balance the budget, unless we are willing to collapse the world economy and throw most Americans into complete poverty. Add to this group of math-challenged Republicans, the factions that include the right-wing bigots, the evangelicals, and the know-nothings, and you have a sizable force that can actually put a Republican in the White House.

Fact is, if President Obama goes big, Democrats, true independents, and Republicans who are deathly afraid of the group that has stolen their party had better line up behind him. They'd better make it clear they have his back. They had better convince a friend to vote for the President, and they'd better get their fannies to a voting booth on election day.

Except that Progressives are not bigots. The John Birch cabal are ardent racists

LMAO Bev Babe! I have NEVER read any more racist comments than the ones left by you on FR.

Are you secretly married to Rev. "Resist We Much" Al?

Ben-636050

@Beverly -- It seems to me that the efforts of the left loons on here are misdirected. The Republicans will not change and if they control one or both of the houses of Congress (or at least have that ability to stop legislation even when they are in the minority LMAO), re-electing obama will be futile. Nothing will change! I know you want to hope but you also have to be realistic. Is the looney left just trying to look to blame someone else for their failures?? Does that make you feel good??? It shouldn't. That's why Hillary in 2012 should make more sense for the dems than obama. Just sayin'.

Ben,

Hillary will be the person to answer that question. In reality since you say nothing will change who support the President? That's right Clinton-nites.

Keep having your Nightmare. Obama will be re-elected President not matter who much it scares you.

Most of the Republicans operatives; even Karl Rove knows it. Why do you think they have resigned to these whackos run amok? It's because these idiots have taken the GOP so far to brinkmanship, Karl Rove et al have decided to try and regroup in 2016; if it's possible.

#3: Did the Stimulus Work – Well yes it did.

I'm sorry, perhaps I missed something, but how does spending $850 Billion dollars and loosing 2 million more jobs since he took office work? You leftist are a sad, you plans are obvious failures in the face of everyone and yet you can't admit it. SS is a ponzi scheme, take the money here and hope you have enough to pay there, well as you see this generation don't have enough money to pay SS for your generation...you really should go look up the definition of a ponzi scheme. The best Jobs Plan Obama could put in place is his resignation, he had no clue what he was doing when he started and 32 years later he is still trying the same failures over and over. Honestly, I like a lot of things the left comes up with, its the retying of failure that drives me away from your side. When something doesn't work try something new, not think by some miracle that the laws of physics have changed and it will work this time.

WOW! I never thought I'd hear the quad group of liberals writing on First Read to ever publish something like this line:

One gets the sense Team Obama is surprised by how much damage the president suffered during the debt ceiling debate. Many folks in the president's circle thought he'd get more credit with the public for looking like the reasonable guy in the room. A miscalculation?

Funny how the liberals on First Read seem to think that the republicans took the largest hit. Surprise, surprise, surprise. When the liberal media admits this, it only proves the liberals here were wrong. How many times did we listen to liberals saying that the American Public is holding the republican/tea party to blame. I never thought that... but only thought the little world of the collective liberals here thought that. I guess my thinking was correct.

A miscalculation? This entire administration is a miscalculation.

@Beverly -- You are correct. An obama re-election scares the heck out of me and most sane, economically sound, open minded people in this country. Nothing will change.

Since you didn't answer my other questions, I'll try one more. Hypothetically speaking, what would your reaction be if Hillary decided to throw her hat into the ring?

bob-1805084

"The average recovery time for a recession is 2.3 quarters.

Out of the last 11 recessions, no recovery has exceeded 3 quarters."

SO, all recessons are of the same severity and scope? Who knew??

You a smart guy, Bob. Neat post. Keep 'em coming.

Bold reforms are needed in my humble opinion to spur both consumers and business. Tax reforms first and foremost to bring certainty to all. An initiative that marries employers with the unemployed with incentives aimed at on the job training with a commitment of 2 years max. End the tax break on SS.....it is too small to have any impact and tax reforms would likely put more in the pockets of everyday working people. Spend on infrastructure. (A win win for all and it has to be done anyhow.) Negotiate for 'repatriating" profits. While it may not spur employment any revenues gained could be targeted to specific initiatives. Businesses could use their portion to innovate and invest in America as well as shore up retirement obligations and balance sheets. (A savings to taxpayers in the long run.)

mmnord1969

LMAO Bev Babe! I have NEVER read any more racist comments than the ones left by you on FR.

Are you secretly married to Rev. "Resist We Much" Al?

You have a problem with Rev Al because he knocks you off you racist white haven stances ?

Do you think fighting for rights of Black people is racists or a crime? Do you support suppression of voters, and JIM CROW?

Rev Al & I don't.

FR:

The American public (especially independents) is no longer in favor of stimulating the economy by spending more money, but they do want some REAL solution to this wheezing economy.

In other words, the American public wants something for nothing. You get what you pay for, and we've got the kind of economy the American public is willing to pay for, I guess. Me personally, I'd rather pay a bit more in taxes if it meant my investments didn't crater like they did during the Bush Recession (and would have done so again during the Teabagger Downturn at the beginning of August, if I hadn't gotten out of stocks in time).

JH-479998

US Navy Retarded

Where do you get the stuff you print here? I hope you will some day see how wrong you are. Most of your posts are OPINIONS with very little FACTS. You know what they say about opinions?

I know what "they say" about opinions. The same could be said about you.

For anyone to argue the 2nd stimulus did not work is saying you do not agree with your taxes being lowered......

Two points. First, let's look at that insanity thing. Republicans have been trotting out tax cuts as the only answer to our economic problems. Jeez folks, we've had them for eleven years now. They don't work. Let's hear it from the Republican sheep - "Hey, what we need is tax cuts." Same old, same old! Insanity, anyone?

Now, I'm no defender of Bush, and I opposed the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, but the unemployment rate during the Bush Administration was around 5% (actually a little under). The Bush Administration implemented a de-facto Keynesian policy by running a deficit for 8 years which for the most part was very effective in the areas of employment and growth. So how do you support your contention that tax-cuts don't work?

Spending approximately $1T didn't work either so why is that being proposed again?

Maybe both sides ideas don't work anymore.

Obama needs to go away. The Obama loyalists are worse than the Bush loyalists in 2004.

Obama lied about transparency. I would of never held him to change. Anyone with half a brain knew that was just a slogan to rally the less intelligent.

Obama will not win in 2012, the only part that disturbs me is the choices besides him. I will never accuse a political party of being smart, however if the democrats were smart they would find another candidate.

Pres. Obama, it's time to go big, something that will really help, infrastructure and on down the line. To hell with the Teapubs, it won't matter to them, they will oppose what ever you say. Demand what is good for the nation, and to hell with politics. If it makes sense, we, the people will back you big time. If you go small and get bogged down again with the naysayers, it will make them look bad, but it will make you look bad, too. The only thing we care about are jobs! The time is now.

Again US Navy Disable Veteran can not find a single fact that not from a left wing site that can not provide a reputable source, I dream up and how grand world without a fact to support it but it is funny that they got one graph that has some facts to it as far as spending and debt, unfortunate it is labeled incorrectly as normal is it attributes spending to Bush as a president when spending is controlled by congress and the Democrats controlled both houses in congress during this spending spree and the drop in spending under Obama occurred when the GOP took control of the house. I have noted this probably half a dozen times to ?ex-Navy? and he can not refute because it is fact and the truth, but continues to make the claims again and again post numerous posts using the same misguiding lies in the hope to bolster other weak and lazily minded individuals to follow his sad lead. I got tire of pointing this out in nice polite ways because he is gutless in his method of lying continuation without comment to the facts. I have tried to contact him personally but he would not reply one on one and I have my doubts to the truth of his logon name is he shows no signs of the honor and integrity of a former US Military soldier but then again you could be John Kerry (egg shell in your eye is weak and accepting a purple heart insults all soldiers especially those that actually deserved one) that's the only type of soldier I can see you being by your actions and level of honor.

dont carry it,

Ther problem is government does not know how to spend it.

Most economists have been urging for a goodly time that a second stimulus package be implemented - or risk being in a stagnant state for a long stretch into the future. Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz has written that major spending cuts right now are "suicidal" - the term he used to describe Simpson-Bowles - and that the first stimulus has at least two problems. The first, he wrote, was that it wasn't big enough. The second, he pointed out, was that too much of it was in relatively small tax cuts that did not go into the economy, but rather into savings.

So the economists have aleady called for the President to "go big."

I've written before that the GOP/TP "slashonomics" is a technique that has failed dramatically already. The Friedman approach to economics and public policy has been tested and found wanting - it has caused the global meltdown in which we are now mired.

The President is in almost precisely the same situation in which President Roosevelt was in 1936-37. By becoming something of a deficit hawk at the time, FDR saw the country slide from recovery back into recession. He eventually realized his error, and in the face of some very fierce opposition in Congress, President Roosevelt dispatched fully-formed bills to Capitol Hill with orders to get them passed. I strongly urge President Obama to emulate that technique.

---------------------------------

On another note from FR:

"It is an insult of the highest magnitude that for the first time in the history of the VFW, the White House has apparently decided that this great and iconic organization of combat veterans and all of its members are not worthy of its notice by not at least offering a first-tier speaker from the administration," wrote its national commander. An administration official tells First Read that in addition to Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs W. Scott Gould (who will be addressing the group), the White House offered UN Ambassador Susan Rice, the Air Force secretary, and the director of the National Guard. The VFW declined those offers, though a spokesperson for the VFW disputes this claim.

The VFW refused our UN Ambassador, the Air Force secretary and director of the National Guard - on grounds they were not important enough? That is pure arrogance and intentional political posturing.

--------------------------------

In reference to the discussion above about the Tea Party's origins and history: In American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us, the new book's authors detail data they examined about the TP. Robert D. Putnam and David E Campbell actually were looking at the religious features of the Tea Party, not doing a political study, but they found these details:

- Most TP members are white males

- Most are not the "political newcomers" of myth, but have been Republican activists for a long time

- Most are fundamentalist Christians

- Most are hostile to immigrants and Blacks

In terms of ideology and tactics, the Tea Party is the inheritor of the John Birch Society's playbook, and is now being heavily influenced by ultra-right strategist Grover Norquist. Norquist, who cut his political teeth as a protege of Jack Abramoff (who is cutting his teeth on the bars of a Federal prison cell), is fronting for such organizations as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and multinational corporations, in alignment with the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, and the Club for Growth. The Tea Party is an unwitting tool of a movement to "reform" the U.S. into a political cartel economy comparable to that of Japan.

Who's stopping you from paying more taxes, Houston? If you think it's such a good idea, do it; the IRS will gladly accept whatever amount you wish to contribute. As a matter of fact, get all of your lib friends to pay more taxes too; just think how good it will make you all feel! (See tax.com for details.)

Ben-636050

@Beverly -- You are correct. An obama re-election scares the heck out of me and most sane, economically sound, open minded people in this country. Nothing will change.

From your cognitive dissonance and lack of intelligence let you tell it nothing changed today except the President frightens you. I know mean it because you are too stupid to realize the President saved US from a near depression, got financial reform, Health Care Reform for nearly 40 million people uninsured and under insured, which by the way Hillary didn't, got Somali pirate, Bin Laden, two out Al-quadia leaders, kept your ass safe, and prepared for a natural disaster; something Georgie boy couldn't on all the above issues. See progress frightens cowards.

Since you didn't answer my other questions, I'll try one more. Hypothetically speaking, what would your reaction be if Hillary decided to throw her hat into the ring?

What would be your reaction if I told you to pull something else stupid out of your ass; PUMA?

drive-by

Nope recessions are different.

Reagan had to deal with higher uneployment than Obama.

Reagan inherited big time inflation - Obama is creating it.

From my perspective it matters not what President Obama says or does at this point. His opposition is so entrenched with a single-minded determination to see him fail that I believe until the next elections federal government will continue to be crippled by in-fighting and rendered completely ineffective. Washington lies moribund playing the zero-sum game.

Mr. Obama, like all presidential hopefuls, is in campaign mode now, and will be until the election. I think he needs to "go big," looking past 2012, 'cause I just do not see a whole lot of change or anything significant happening between now and then.

One gets the sense Team Obama is surprised by how much damage the president suffered during the debt ceiling debate.

I'll clue you in Mr. President. America is fed up with both sides and is launching blame at everyone in all directions. The Democrats lost the House in a landslide because in 2010 they came to Washington with a "healthcare mandate"--NOT.

The Republicans will lose the House in 2014 for the same reason.

This morning, First Read informs us that the White House is confused and disappointed that President Obama hasn't received credit from the public for his role in the fiasco surrounding the raising of the debt ceiling...yet another example of this Administration's near-complete political tone-deafness.

The public at large isn't buying the "only adult in the room" talking point so favored by Obama supporters at sites like First Read.

Polling consistently shows President Obama with dismal approval numbers on the issue of the deficit, and has for months and months.

Although Congress routinely receives dismal approval numbers from the public, for many, Congress is a faceless, largely amorphous body.

The President was easily the most recognizable face during the wrangling over raising the debt ceiling.

Given the conduct and the outcome of the debt ceiling talks, he's lucky his job approval numbers haven't sunk even lower.

The possibility that anyone in the Obama Administration seriously believed the President might emerge from those talks with an improved reputation for firm, sure-handed leadership is simply astonishing.

Again...a truly impressive degree of political tone-deafness.

You have a problem with Rev Al because he knocks you off you racist white haven stances ?

Do you think fighting for rights of Black people is racists or a crime? Do you support suppression of voters, and JIM CROW?

Rev Al & I don't.

Some people are absolute twits.

Rev "Resist We Much" Al and his ilk are nothing more than opportunist playing the fears of blacks and the guilt of whites in an attempt to line their pockets. Greed.

Every minister, father, preacher, priest, rabbi that I have ever known have ALWAYS preached peace and love, not division and baiting. Tell me which one Tawana Brawley's buddy resembles most.

“White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” - Rev. "Resist We Much" Al Kean College 1994

LOL....fools

President Obama should offer big and bold plans. Let the Rebpublican obstructionists develop the nickel and dime plans.

The President is then in a position to accept amongst the Republican proposals (as compromise) and still deride the Republicans for going small. If the Republicans offer their 'NO' plan (expected) - they will be seen as obstuctionist, not problem solvers. Republicans proposing more 'tax cuts' will simply look like budget busting idiots. Republicans shouting about the deficit/debt will be seen as wanting to create another House sitcom and further downgrade the US.

President Obama can control the narrative in this fight. Anything the President offers will be opposed by the Republicans - that gives President Obama control of the debate.

Bev said:

You have a problem with Rev Al because he knocks you off you racist white haven stances ? No Bev. I don't have any problem with Rev Al. He hasn't knocked me off any racist white haven stances because I am not a racist. Now to you, a black racist, he builds you up. He edifies your dream of black supremacy. In certain circles, blacks have more advantages than whites do. Ever hear of equal opportunity? It's geared towards the minorities and places white people on a disadvantaged list. In other words, minorities get preference over whites. I guess in your world, that's fair.

Do you think fighting for rights of Black people is racists or a crime? Do you support suppression of voters, and JIM CROW? I'd like to know what century you are talking about Bev. Do blacks need more rights? Last I checked, blacks have the same rights as I do. Let's talk about voter suppression. What is your opinion on the Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly? Eric Holder (the black attorney general) totally dismissed the case without even listening to it. Do you consider it fair that the black panthers did what they did? In today's age and time. Don't go back 50 years ago... we are talking about today.

This administration has no ability to do anything big except spend, spend, spend. Beverly: It wasnt your precious obama that has kept this country safe by killing terrorist leaders, that is compliments of the U.S. military that does that. Your precious obama only wants to decimate the defense budget and prosecute soldiers for smacking around the very same terrorists you seem to think that your precious obama is protecting us from. Your precious obama is a joke. Why dont you go have a few drinks with obama and his D.U.I. loving uncle. The three of you can drive down the street, cause a huge accident, injure and kill people, then blame it all on bush. You are such a parrot.

Can someone answer me why when the president talks about a jobs bill it requires spending. Let's let the private sector create the jobs, the government needs to do nothing but level the playing field and that is free.

Let's let the private sector create the jobs

Okay - I'll play!

The private sector has had 11 years of continuing tax cuts & is currently sitting on 3 TRILLION dollars...

After WE the tax payers bailed their greedy asses OUT!

So, where are the JOBS?

The playing field is slanted alright - in FAVOR of the I got mine screw YOU crowd!

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

The people in WI have banned the TP/GOP from the Labor Day festivities.

THAT'S GREAT. It will probably happen in many other festivities around America until election.

The water boy, Hannity, and the rest of the sycophants over @ the Fear Factor Channel aka FOX NOISE have their work cut out for them try to make people believe the repressive agenda of the T-Potty is viable.

Don't they even know America want J-O-B-S, Housing, Education, and religious freedom not FOX LIES and 18th century rhetoric?

"Spending approximately $1T didn't work either so why is that being proposed again?" -- Alan, NJ

Agreed. This is nothing more than doubling down on the original near trillion dollar, failed, agenda-driven, political handout filled, "thank you to our supporters", boondoggle that was rammed down our throats in 2009.

It's funny watching the administration vacillate. First we were told we were headed for economic "catastrophe" not seen since the Great Depression so that they could push the boondoggle through. The boondoggle was going to save us from this "catastrophe". Now that the trillion dollar boondoggle has -- as expected -- failed, they're disingenuously claiming "We didn't know how bad it was!"

Note to Obama administration: Almost nothing is worse than a "catastrophe". To first claim it was a "catastrophe" and now say you didn't know how bad it was is frankly not believable at all.

Now they want a second round of more of the same. What's the saying? "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me."

ROY WILSON-336103

How's this for the'Blame Game' - The total amount of spending cuts imposed for 2012 by those "Radical and Extreme" Tea Party Republicans in the House amounted to a whopping $20 Billion, which is about one-half of 1% of the estimated $3.7 Trillion in spending for 2012. I can see why they were characterized as "Terrorists" by top Democrats - how could they be so Draconian?

Ah come on Roy, you know exactly why we called the Tea Party terrorists. It was not their policy, it was there willingness to trash the worldwide economy in order to get their way.

The Tea Party held a gun to the head of the world, insisting they get 100% of what they want, or else they would pull the trigger.

Hell, even their threat of that violence was a major cause of the recent turmoil and the credit downgrade.

You know better sir. Terrorism is the act of using violence to achieve political goals.

The Tea Party fits that characterization.

Nasty redhead

The private sector was doing a very good job of keeping people employed until 2008. That is when the democrats had already had over one year to "fix" what the republicans had screwed up. The Democrats lied to us in 2006 to get elected and they have failed us. The shellacking will continue. You better find a viable candidate for next years election.

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit.

Optimistic one - please cite the violence you claim. The TP people are the only ones who have kept their promises to the American people. Good for them.

You know, for once I agree with Fiesty... Obama should go HUGE... he should propose specific gigantic spending increases to "stimulate" jobs... a $2-3 Trillion dollar plus package that gives more money to unions (almost shovel ready jobs)... more money to green companies and offshore energy interests (while gas and oil exploration are shut down in this country).. more money to GE (whose CEO leads his jobs commission while planning an aircraft joint venture with China in direct competition with Boeing jobs), more money to the bureaucracies that create banking, energy, land use, emissions, and labor regulations (so that businesses large and small can't possibly know what additional paperwork, regulations, taxes, penalties, and other obstacles they'll face in the upcoming years)... he should propose enormous increases in entitlement spending (welfare, unemployment, food stamps, zero interest housing loans, free cars, universal cell phone service, etc) and he should advocate huge tax increases to pay for it all... at least a ten percent tax increase on everybody making more than $50,000 a yr... then it would be apparent what his end game is, and no sane human that's not already living in the entitlement ghetto-plantation could possibly mistake his intention... a Marxist Central Planned State...

Bev,

Does that mean you support segregation?

The private sector was doing a very good job of keeping people employed until 2008.

Only in ConservatiVille does hemorrhaging 700 thousand jobs a month = a very good job! lmfao!

I swear you can't make this stuff up! ;o))

Houston, JH was sharing his opinion about people trying to pass opinions off as facts. JH was loosely trying to point out that opinions simply point out view of someone whether informed or not. If you want to think with a part of your anatomy above the waistline you need to look at facts and think not blindly believe what you are told to think. There is material that will show that the country is going in the wrong direction who is responsible; people need to know the truth not opinions and lies. To many people provide mis-information, opinions and name calling which is about all I see you contributing, either you are part the problem and or part the solution.

Can Fiesty and Navy or John A and especially Jobs1 explain how tax increases will create jobs? I understand where we might have additional government revenue to spend or reduce the deficit but given that interest rates are at historical lows, dont see how that helps in the short run. Can anyone provide an economists view that increasing taxes creates jobs? Can anyone explain how increasing the costs to corporations (regardless of them sitting on cash) will create jobs? So if Obamacare increases the costs of insuring their employees via the regulatory mandates that continue to come out, how is that creating job growth. If Obama wants to punish corps in a manner that either taxes them more or basically reduces their competitiveness and reduces their stock value impacting the endowments, 401k accounts and union pension plans that are the biggest owners of these companies, how does that impact job growth positively? Seriously, please progressives point me in the direction of the economist and historical track records of presidents or states that have done so successfully? Is Illinois your model? How about California? NY? Name me a state that has used that approach successfully?

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit

Waaay Funny! Exactly what I was thinking as I was watching the commercials with Ms. Maddow.

Speaking of which, why does she try so hard to look like a little boy?

Ridgelon:

First the $850 Billion included 50% for tax cuts. Only $400 Billion and change went to the stimulus. Virtually every leading economist of note says the Stimulus did work, the problem with it was it was not big enough. You can blame the TP/GOP for it not being bigger.

To date President Obama has created 2.2 Million Private sector jobs - go look it up. When he took office we were bleeding 700,000 jobs per month.

Do some reading instead of coming here with old debunked talking points about the Stimulus and Social Security which by the way is still viable until 2036 at 100% of benefits - those are the facts, your post is just more Roveian BS.

I have written this many times over the year that the Stimulus Did work. Attached below are the URL’s from my previous posts that prove the point.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/24/1003682/-Evaluating-the-stimulus:-Yes,-it-worked,-but-theres-more-to-thestory?via=blog_1

“The phrase "failed stimulus" has been a staple of Republican rhetoric since the fall of 2009. But it was wrong then and it’s wrong now, at least according to the people most qualified to judge it. As David Leonhardt wrote in the New York Times”: “Perhaps the best-known economic research firms are IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s Economy.com. They all estimate that the bill has added 1.6 million to 1.8 million jobs so far and that its ultimate impact will be roughly 2.5 million jobs”.

“That was in February of 2010. Fifteen months later, in May of this year, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that, as of the most recent quarter, the Recovery Act had increased the number of people employed by between 1.2 million and 3.3 million and increased the number of full-time equivalent jobs by 1.6 million to 4.6 million compared with what would have occurred otherwise”.

“And just a month ago, the president's Council of Economic Advisers came up with similar estimates (2.4 to 3.6 million jobs) using its own forecasting models. You'll find a few critics on the right who dispute the reliability of these models, but they are a distinct minority and it's not as if they have a compelling alternative theory. Keep in mind, by the way, that the administration had predicted the Recovery Act would create 3.5 million jobs, which is on the high end but in the same ballpark as most other estimates”.

“For more evidence, Dylan Matthews reviews the "nine best studies" and concludes, "I'm inclined to believe that the preponderance of evidence indicates the stimulus worked."

Other sources about the Stimulus:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-08-30-stimulus30_CV_N.htm

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/wait-did-the-stimulus-work/

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2910

Jobs will never be created until consumers start spending again. Consumers will not spend until they know their money and investments are secure. This is not hard to understand. Government needs to improve infrastructure. That's all they can do do stimulate an economy.

Case closed.

lmao.......banned! So how do you manage that one! And I do hope that Mr Obama goes BIG .....In Fact Huge is not Big enough. I hope and wish he will announce the biggest spending bill ever in the history of the United States. I will be standing up in my home (well one of them) clapping and cheering for the HUGE spending bill that assures America jobs by the hundreds of thousands. You Go Mr Obama! god that hurt!

Finally! some intelligent debate that will help the economy rather than dumwads on the right debating the value of science !!!!

Cautiously Optimistic One "ROY WILSON-336103 Ah come on Roy, you know exactly why we called the Tea Party terrorists. It was not their policy, it was there willingness to trash the worldwide economy in order to get their way."

So a $20 Billion cut in spending for fiscal 2012 (one-half of 1%) is going to "trash the worldwide economy"?

I can see that you bought the Democratic talking points "Hook, line and sinker".

Thanks for the laugh.

"I hope and wish he will announce the biggest spending bill ever in the history of the United States."

He can. And lets hope he does!

"The most galling thing about pundits stating with such certainty that the government cannot create jobs is the implication that the government has no business employing people. In actuality, however, the law requires the government, in particular the President and the Federal Reserve, to create jobs."

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/11-0

Alan, NJ:

I am late to the First Read Party today, and so I have not read anyone's comments above. However, I did read the article you linked yesterday and I must say, it sounded quite rational in the economic sense . . . farfetched in the political sense. In any case, thanks for sharing it . . . it renews my hope that you are a real live human person seeking solutions like myself . . . gets hard to tell around here sometimes! :o)

For those interested, the link to the article Alan posted yesterday follows (with an excerpt):

Yes, We Can Do Stimulus Without Adding Debt. Here’s How.

by Robert Shiller

" . . .

In reality, stimulus can easily take a balanced budget form: The government can simply raise taxes and raise expenditures by the same amount. The idea that balanced budget increases could save an economy stuck in a bad equilibrium goes back to the work of economists Walter Salant and Paul Samuelson in the 1940s, and it’s been taught in introductory economics courses ever since, though somehow it has been absent from public discussion of the current economic situation. Salant and Samuelson argued that in a very weak economy the balanced budget expenditure increases would translate into a one-for-one increase in national income. . .

In fact, the returns on a balanced budget stimulus are likely to be even greater than that. If the government raises taxes to hire the unemployed, then the unemployed who now get jobs will likely quickly spend all the money they earn on new consumption, since they have been strapped and now have jobs. The currently employed, who will see their taxes go up, will likely not cut their expenditures as much because they are habituated to their current level of consumption. And it is unlikely that a balanced budget stimulus would “crowd out” private expenditures on goods and services by pushing up interest rates. The Fed has already committed itself to keeping interest rates at zero until 2013.

The big problem with balanced budget stimulus is political, namely that there is a huge opposition to tax increases right now, primarily among Republicans. But their resistance might be softened if they were made aware that a balanced-budget stimulus would not lower average after-tax income: Every dollar of increased taxes could go toward giving someone extra income. . . "

http://www.tnr.com/article/economy/94275/shiller-infrastructure-debt-stimulus

JH-479998

Optimistic one - please cite the violence you claim. The TP people are the only ones who have kept their promises to the American people. Good for them.

JH, please give me a break. The Tea Party threatoned to block raising the debt ceiling unless all of their demands were met.

This is economic violence. Their acts have created hunger, unemployment and death around the world. Just so that they can get "that man" out of the white house.

I call that violence.

Roy Wilson you are talking through my words.

Try to read this. It was the Tea Party threatening to block raising of the debt ceiling that was the evil.

NOT the policies.

The Tea Party is willing to use threats of violence to get 100% of their way.

I see the AINOS are doing it again up top. Just a reminder people from yesterday:

The Karl Rove Play Book

I want to thank Feisty for an excellent post Friday on the Karl Rove tactical agenda authored by Art Silverblatt, Jane Bruns and Gina Jensen (the URL is below). The article she (Feisty) used should be read by all who post here at: The information is priceless to the understanding of what is really going on in the political arena today. It is all about the political agenda and how to get he agenda implemented. It has nothing to do with what the American People want or need. It has nothing to do with moving this country forward. In fact it is a dangerous path being laid out for the destruction of democracy as we know it today. Read It, make a copy and refer to it often.

This is not a document of what he (Karl Rove) said per se but rather a very detailed analysis of the tactics and agenda of Karl Rove and the Republican Party going all the way back to the early 1990’s. It labels over a dozen or so tactics we see in Radical Right Wing political rhetoric and dirty tactics that they are using today. In fact we see many of these lately on this board as well, like attacking the source of information but never proving the facts wrong, or even putting up their own facts. When they lie and get called out they get defensive and cry foul. The constant lies like Tax Cuts for the 2% create jobs and stimulate the economy, death panels in HCR, the bigger the lie the better. People the tactics are exposed, please read them; I guarantee you will recognize most of them very quickly and you can then determine who (which party) uses them the most.

Among them: These are just the headers – read the document for all the details.

http://www.webster.edu/medialiteracy/journal/FINALKARLROVE.pdf

Tactic #1: Take the Offensive

Tactic #2: Attack Your Opponent’s Strengths

Tactic #3: Accuse Your Opponent of What He/She is Going to Accuse You Of

Tactic #4: Go Negative, Then Cry Foul

Tactic #5: The “Big Lie”

Tactic #6: Appeal to Moral Values

Tactic #7 Sell the Bush Persona

Tactic # 8: Sell an Adolescent Worldview

Tactic #9: Exploit the Media

Tactic #10: Create Straw Issues

Tactic #11: Employ Surrogates

Tactic #12: Use Emotional Appeals

Tactic #13: Rely on Expert Testimonials

Tactic #14: Rhetorical Devices

Tactic 15: Use of Language

You AINOS are so predicatble. You have not debunked any of the posts above that do include facts by the way and appropriate URL's. And those that are just opinions are just that but many are based on hard facts as well. This is what we get from the righties more and more BS everyday.

You Roveian wantabees are off to a good start again today - you make Karl Rove "Proud", nothing like a bunch of little mislead troops going blindly into the night for their Roviean Commanders. You people better wake up and take a look around you. Your little kingdom is starting to crumble.

With a 12% approval rate - Congress isn't exactly in the 'cat bird' seat at the moment!

Congressional approval ratings are totally meaningless. When you ask the same people what they think of their own representatives, as opposed to the entire congress, you get a much different result. So don’t think you’re going to see a massive turnover in the next election just because the entire congress has a poor rating. Congressional approval ratings are rarely above the 40-50% range anyway.

God Im too the point that I hope someone takes that dumbazzed made up concocted Hollywood manuscript and shoves each page individually up your loose azz! LMAO Pheew that felt good! You remind me of the kind of kid who acted like a fool until someone had enough and hauled off and knocked you out...... then you would cry and run back yo mommy!

JH-479998 -

You are most seriously in error. Following the dot.com recession of 2001, and then the 9/11-spurred recession of 2002, the "recovery" became known as the "recovery without jobs." During the G.W. Bush Administration there was a net loss of over 4 million jobs - and employment was crumbling faster than a mud wall in an earthquake when President Obama took office.(*)

President Bush, whose entire Administration was a record of gross incompetence (some of it deliberate) (#), literally abandoned his post in late 2008 to let President-elect Obama begin dealing with the economic collapse. Mr. Obama went to work with a will, before officially in office, and began the difficult process of rescuing America and the world from a Depression.

The view that "let the private sector create jobs and get government out of the way" is completely insufficient. It is known that public stimulation of economic activity is the surest means of enabling private employment to grow. The opinion that government is the problem rather than the solution is a slanderous lie sold certainly since the Reagan Regime.(@) Reagan, who headed the most corrupt Administration in U.S. history, began the process of both crony capitalism by stocking Federal agencies with people from the very industries being regulated, and in some cases intentionally rendering the agencies incompetent - to make his declarations self-fulfilling. It continued unabated in the first Bush Administration. (#)

Some of the cronyism continued under Clinton, but it was brought back with a vengeance under G.W. Bush. Conclusion: Best way to make an institution fail is to starve it, staff it with its enemies, and drive out those staff members who actually knew their jobs and sought to perform them. (#)

--------------------------------------

(*) Joseph E. Stiglitz, Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy

(#) Thomas Frank, The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Ruined Government, Enriched Themselves, and Beggared America

(@) Robert Scheer, The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street

Navy's answer to everything is "BLAME THE GOP/TP." Nothing is EVER the fault of the democrats/liberals. Talk about a closed mind that is impenetrable. I guess that's what is wrong with the liberal line he possesses. It's only a talking point to Navy when he can somehow spin all things wrong to the GOP/TP. I guess the administration disagrees with Navy... since they are reeling because of the damage done to the White House over the public's view of how Obama looks in light of the debt ceiling issue.

Well at least we know Navy is not objective. Mind as tight as a frogs behind.

Top o' the morning gang. Man the libbies are taking a real beating already on this fine day.

Navy - I get that you were never the captain of the debate team, and clearly have never studied effective argument techniques, but man it is now readily apparent that you lack even basic logic skills.

Or maybe you can tell us why you are trying to say that the stimulus worked at the exact same time you are calling for another huge stimulus?

Navy - if it worked, why on earth would we need another? See, Obama said very clearly that if it passed the stimulus would do a bunch of wonderful things for the economy. Unemployment below 8.5%, jobs created and saves, yada, yada, yada. Well it passed so by Obama's measure and you argument that it worked unemployment in now below 8.5% and it saved and created all those jobs.

Navy it did do those things, which is why you can say with a straight face it worked, right?

Navy is your face straight?

Good morning, everyone. It's nice to see everyone so active, but it sure is hard to get a word in edgewise around here this morning.

I can't possibly top all the excellent posts above me, so I'll just sum up what I've read so far as follows:

Sex may, indeed, be all in the mind, but size still matters ... at least in jobs programs.

Go big or go home, Mr. President. Do what you should have done to begin with and dare the Republicans to block you.

Because we are out of time. And this time, it will be all on their heads.

Have a happy, happy day, everyone, and I'll see you on the later threads.

Spanky:

Or maybe you can tell us why you are trying to say that the stimulus worked at the exact same time you are calling for another huge stimulus?

Navy - if it worked, why on earth would we need another?

And which debate team were you captain of, Spanky?

The answer to this is obvious.

The 1/3 of the stimulus that went to actual job creation created jobs. The 2/3 that went to tax cuts and other stuff, like unemployment insurance benefits extension, didn't create any jobs.

So we need another stimulus to make up for the one we misdirected the first time. Never mind whose fault that is. It's on the President AND his conservative advisers. But blaming them doesn't get the job done.

And now it's time to make up for lost time and do what should have been done the first time.

By the way, if I were the President, I would actually sell this package by admitting up front that (1) the advice I was working from for the first stimulus was wrong, (2) tax cuts for the wealthy don't create jobs, and (3) this is why we need additional stimulus.

How on earth would Republicans ever counter that, given where we are?

How on earth could honesty hurt you now, Mr. President?

@ Wink Wink ~

I must say that seldom have I ever seen a single comment more worthy of getting its author banned for a LONG, LONG time. You should be ashamed of yourself, and whoever voted for it should also be ashamed of yourself.

John A.

You are just as full of BS as the rest of your far left cronies on FR. Look at the unemployment rates throught the Bush years. And please go to an official government site and get real numbers. Now you will see that the unemployment rate didn't start the drastic fall until the dems took over Congress in 2007. And it is very kind of you to point out that President Bush "abandoned" his job in 2008 to let President elect Obama take over. I will 100% agree to that because 2008 was the year that the dems started us on our journey to hell. How's the ride been for you? I don't care what you libs spew, I look at the facts and the facts say this country went to hell on a democratic watch.

Brianb-999431

Bev said:

You have a problem with Rev Al because he knocks you off you racist white haven stances ? No Bev. I don't have any problem with Rev Al. He hasn't knocked me off any racist white haven stances because I am not a racist.

Okay if you say so; you're not a racist but you are an un-educationed fool.

I'd like to know what century you are talking about Bev. Do blacks need more rights? Last I checked, blacks have the same rights as I do. Let's talk about voter suppression. What is your opinion on the Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly? Eric Holder (the black attorney general) totally dismissed the case without even listening to it. Do you consider it fair that the black panthers did what they did? In today's age and time. Don't go back 50 years ago... we are talking about today.

That shows how ignorant you are. You must think I'm going to agree with the Black T- potty fools. You got Allen West making tainted statements like he is a modern day Harriet Tubman. When nothing could be further from the truth. In reality he is a modern slave catcher wanting to return the Black race to the repressive and submission views of the days slavery and Jim Crow

Permit to borrow these lines from John A.-40047

- Most TP members are white males

- Most are not the "political newcomers" of myth, but have been Republican activists for a long time

- Most are fundamentalist Christians

- Most are hostile to immigrants and Blacks

If you can't see that I guess then you must be apart of the mix.

The New Black Panther Party is a FOX NOISE Meagan Kelly creation and some remnant chump from the Bush backwards a**minstration string the racial pot.

Of course, Blacks need more rights because we still haven't gotten freedom justice and equality as other ethnic nationalities; even to this day

By the way, if I were the President, I would actually sell this package by admitting up front that (1) the advice I was working from for the first stimulus was wrong

Then why on God's green earth would we agree to another based on who you pick to give you advice?

Let's face it, Mr. Obama is experiencing his lack of executive experience. Good leaders surround themselves with good advisors.

John A, I thought Clinton's cabinet was the most corrupt in history with the most indictments etc. Certainly the Reagan era was nothing for any Reagan era supporter to be proud of but certainly in terms of numbers, indictments, scandals they were the tops. I wonder if there is a connection given that both Reagan and Clinton presided over unprecedented GDP growth, job growth etc purely based on statistics. Please dont respond criticizing Reagan as thats not my point, lets just keep it based on statistics for the moment. Also your being somewhat disengenous about Bush 2 (I think he was a terrible president so no supporter) but he did have significant job growth coming out of the internet recession, 9/11 through 2007. It was only the collapse in 2008 that gave much of that back.

JH, numbers - sorry but your trolling that bull manure just doesn't fly. In fact, rising unemployment and other indicators of a recession were showing up in mid-2006 before the mid-terms. I recall writing about it then and warning that the personal debt the Bushies urged on America was already unsustainable and a crash was coming. Nitwits like you laughed at me at the time and said, "look at the stock market!" Well, the stock market wasn't the issue - the liquidity of Americans and the falling savings rate was part of it, as was dropping or stagnant middle class wages, and many other factors.

Take your phony spin and sit on it. I put up solid citations. You are just falsifying history, ding dong.

Beverly in Chicago
That shows how ignorant you are. You mist think I'm going to agree with the Black t- party fools. You got Allen West making tainted statements like he is a modern day Harriet Tubman. When nothing could be further from the truth. In reality he is a modern slave catcher wanting to return the Black race to the views of the days
slavery and Jim Crow

Man, it's tough to be this right ALL of the time. Thank you Mrs. Bev Sharpton.

A "slave catcher"????? Are you for real?...lol

"Hypothetically speaking, what would your reaction be if Hillary decided to throw her hat into the ring?"

Ben -
It wouldn't at all surprise me to see Hillary replace Biden on the upcoming ticket, then succeed Obama in 2016.

(*) Joseph E. Stiglitz, Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy

(#) Thomas Frank, The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Ruined Government, Enriched Themselves, and Beggared America

(@) Robert Scheer, The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street

Joseph Stiglitz - writer for Vanity Fair - avowed liberal. Left leaning, big government, 68 year old.

Thomas Frank - Author of "The Wrecking Crew," a complete teardown of conservative governance... another liberal wack job.

Robert Scheer - Another ultraliberal author - He's still confused about what happened on 911.

No wonder JohnA's mind is so confused. He reads liberal authors and has become so engrained in liberal thinking it's not a surprise that his opinions are filled with mistruths and a misguided view of what conservatism is all about. You are what you read JohnA. Maybe you need a vacation from all the liberal spin you consume. Try investigating the Light side of the Force... it may just open your mind and get you off the dark side.

President Obama does not need to spend huge to craft a big - bold plan. President Obama should focus on intitiatives for small business. That means addressing capital investment and available employees. The small business sector ($25 to $50 million) cannot expand right now because of lack of capital, lack of employees, and inability to compete globally. The President can focus on SBA loans, SBIR grants, modifying patent law, some reporting and compliance regulations, job training credits (as an extension of unemployment), payroll taxes, trade agreements, and some needed government expenditures on infrastructure. The President should also include revenue (taxes) in the plan - probably to simplify the tax code favoring small business.

Big and bold means to change the emphasis from the corporate 'welfare queens' to the parts of the economy that actually works. Multinational corporations and Wall Street have had their day - it is time to move on from the failed 'financial services' economic model. It is time to move the economy back to grass roots business.

I doubt President Obama has the guts to carry through - but the plan should tie the Republicans to Wall Street and corporate welfare. Main Street needs the attention now.

We are beyond trying to 'recover' the economy the Republicans gave us - financial services, offshoring, big business welfare have all failed. We need to rebuild the economy and that will depend on small business.

mmnord ~

Then why on God's green earth would we agree to another based on who you pick to give you advice?

Are you really this dumb?

He got the advice from CONSERVATIVES, like Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, and the other guys who presided over the Wall Street crash in the first place.

The REAL question is why we would ever ask THEM for an opinion about the economy, ever again, WHOEVER the putative leader may be.

US Navy

Here's a more accurate portrayal of the EDA. Use this as a guide for the Democratic "job bills".

Reid is the typical left winger. Takes credit for successes that don't exist and blames the "other guys" for his failures.

http://civilcandor.com/reid-is-wrong-end-the-eda/

Once again, expecting the Government to create jobs is rather a ludicrous position. The only jobs they can create are Government jobs (we certainly do not need any more of those). In the private sector, if there is no demand, there is no job - my belief is that until the housing industry turns, there will continue be a weak economy. Who will not hire people, even with a tax break, if the demand is not there - Economics 101. SO - why does the left keep harping on the congress to show the jobs they created - ain't gonna happen with either party. Look at the stimulus money that was wasted, for the most part, "creating jobs" - the cost certainly outweighed any perceived gain.

The 2/3 that went to tax cuts and other stuff, like unemployment insurance benefits extension, didn't create any jobs.

So we need another stimulus to make up for the one we misdirected the first time.

____________________________________________

OUCH!!!!

AM, are you really saying that Barry and the Wicked Witch of the Left that Barry commissioned to write the original Porkulus bill f***ed it up BIG TIME??

I think her Wickedness is on video record as saying "Let me say that unemployment insurance… is one of the biggest stimuluses (sic) to our economy."

And Barry wants to extend the 2% SS "tax cut" gimmick throught the next election.

And now you are advocating giving these same clowns another loaded gun with which to shoot the American people in the foot??

See my reference above (#1.2) to Albert Einstein's comments on "insanity".

He actually was an early "rocket scientist".

LOL!!!

John A, I agree that the signs of weakness were beginning to show up maybe in 2006 but certainly in 2007 as the spending binge americans were on was unsustainable. Bush and both the GOP congress and the Pelosi congress in 2007 increased spending to unsustainable levels regardless of the Bush tax cuts and he certainly put us in a war in Iraq that in hindsight was a terrible mistake. So we agree with that basic premise, but it seems to me that the progressives on here still think the spending spree that Obama went on and continues to advocate is not a bad thing even though the Bush spending spree wasnt. I understand the revenue side and agree that tax reform that is serious is needed but that isnt going to cover the size and breath of the current spending spree no matter how many jobs it does or doesnt create. Even with some government induced temporary hiring via infrastructure projects etc, sustainable job growth has to come from private side investment. Nothing in the tax cuts of the stimulus package or Bush tax rate extensions did anything to incent investment. That certainly was the fault of the dems in 2008 and the GOP and teaparty continued that stupidity last year in an attempt to reign in spending. I am lost at what you and the president are really advocating here. You may not agree with Reagonmics or Clinton's modified version of Reagonomics with his passing of the Contract of America policies but they took a stand and believed in it. What is Obama's economic policies? Does he truly think long term GDP growth comes from temporary government spending? Is it QE 1 and QE 2 which were meant to create inflation and devalue the dollar in order to spur investment to allow the government to inflate its way out of the deficit issue? The message coming from the President is certainly not coherent at the moment.

Anna Molly

mmnord ~

Then why on God's green earth would we agree to another based on who you pick to give you advice?

Are you really this dumb?

He got the advice from CONSERVATIVES, like Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, and the other guys who presided over the Wall Street crash in the first place.

The REAL question is why we would ever ask THEM for an opinion about the economy, ever again, WHOEVER the putative leader may be.

Tsk, tsk, tsk......name calling. I think my feelings are hurt.

Who is our Treasury Secretary?

Obama should just give everybody making less than $250K per year all the tax money they have paid for the last 10 years and be done with it. If he is going to take the economy down with his failed policies, at least we can throw one heck of a party and go down happy.....

To listen to the Tea Partiers and their twin the Republicans, all the economic ills of the country began on January 20, 2009 when the Kenyan, Keynesian, Indonesian Muslim, Socialist, Marxist, Communist, et al moved into the White House.

Now if we can just get him to move out all will be right with the world and the debt and deficit will be taken care of with Paul Ryan’s nifty Budget Plan. Or you take your pick:

Michelle Bachman and/or Rick Perry have ALL the answers to our economic woes. Just send a letter to Washington beggin’ for a little Stimulus money. That is precisely what those two mentally unstable individuals did when confronted with their own fiscal woes in their respective states. Now that’s leadership.

Oh Goody!

The stimulus worked to a degree. However, America has not experienced a "recession" as big as this since the "great depression". To turn ones back on a problem does not make the problem go away, I would argue it prolongs the problem. This is a problem that requires something from everyone. Business leaders from all walks have an opportunity to go public with specifics on what they require to create the certainty they feel is necessary to promote hiring. Emphasis on specifics. Let the negotiations begin. The citizens need certainty that tomorrow another Congress will not come along and change the rules to exert their control over our lives. Does government have a role in stimulating economic growth....of course it does anything less is abandonment of governance.

Brianb -

Joseph Stiglitz - writer for Vanity Fair - avowed liberal. Left leaning, big government, 68 year old.

Thomas Frank - Author of "The Wrecking Crew," a complete teardown of conservative governance... another liberal wack job.

Robert Scheer - Another ultraliberal author - He's still confused about what happened on 911.

From Wikipedia:

Joseph Eugene Stiglitz, ForMemRS, FBA, (born February 9, 1943) is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University. He is a recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences (2001) and the John Bates Clark Medal (1979). He is also the former Senior Vice President and Chief Economist of the World Bank. He is known for his critical view of the management of globalization, free-market economists (whom he calls "free market fundamentalists") and some international institutions like the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.

In 2000, Stiglitz founded the Initiative for Policy Dialogue (IPD), a think tank on international development based at Columbia University. Since 2001, he has been a member of the Columbia faculty, and has been a University Professor since 2003. He also chairs the University of Manchester's Brooks World Poverty Institute and is a member of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. Stiglitz is also an honorary professor at Tsinghua University School of Public Policy and Management and a member of the Executive and Supervisory Committee (ESC) of CERGE-EI. Stiglitz is one of the most frequently cited economists in the world.^[1]

Yeah, right, again ding-dong. NOT. Stike one!

Same source:

Thomas Frank (born 1965) is an American author, journalist and columnist for Harper's Magazine. He is a former columnist for the Wall Street Journal, authoring "The Tilting Yard" from 2008 to 2010.

Frank is a historian of culture and ideas and analyzes trends in American electoral politics and propaganda, advertising, popular culture, mainstream journalism and economics. With his writing, he explores the rhetoric and impact of the 'Culture Wars' in American political life, and the relationship between politics and culture in the United States.

Oops, Strike Two!

And here's the windup, then the pitch:

Robert Scheer (born 1936) is an American journalist who writes a column for Truthdig which is nationally syndicated in publications such as the San Francisco Chronicle and The Nation. He teaches communications as a professor at the University of Southern California and is Editor in Chief for the online magazine Truthdig.^[1]

After graduating from City College of New York with a degree in economics, he studied as a fellow at the Maxwell School of Syracuse University, and then did further economics graduate work at the Center for Chinese Studies at UC Berkeley. Scheer has also been a Poynter fellow at Yale University, and was a fellow in arms control at Stanford, the same post once held by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

I know Scheer personally through my former career in journalism.

Strike Three! Yer outta here! Check off Tactics 1,2,5 on the Karl Rove system of avoiding factual debate and speading confusion (post #1.102, above).

Nerm L - in fact President Obama signed just such a small business bill into law in 2010. It did everything you proposed and more. The issue of stimulating economic activity that ecourages small businesses to take advantage of that program is what is necessary new. And for that, most economists recommend a more jobs-focused, rather than tax relief-focused, stimulus plan much bigger than the one before.

How on earth could honesty hurt you now, Mr. President?

__________________________

"I admit that my earlier policies on reviving the economy were wrong, and didn't work, and tens of millions of American's are suffering because of my mistakes, but, if you elect me to a second term I assure you I will get it right on the second try."

My 2012 campaign will be the opposite of my 2008 campaign of "Hope and Change", 2012 will be ALL about "Change and Hope...."

Yeah, right........ you've earned my vote.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I have written this many times over the year that the Stimulus Did work. "

Just because you wrote it does not make it true, try checking with reality, our unemployment in truth is near 25%. We were told that this stimulus of $850 Billion was needed or the economy of the US would collapse and if passed the jobless rate would never go over 9%, well it passed and everything they said turned out to be a lie. There are no shovel ready jobs, the unemployment rate exploded after it's passing, we lost 2 million jobs while the bulk of the money ended up in the pockets of Obama's cohorts. Your left' idea of passing legislation to "see what is in it" instead of actually reading what the bill states and how it will completely screw our economy is what got us here. The only jobs created have been government jobs, let me explain this to you...it takes taxes to pay for a government job, they do not produce and positive income for the economy only stagnation. I understand that you can skip economics 101 if your are a democrat, but you people truly need to be reeducated. You people on the left have delusions of being smarter than everyone else, yet they are simply that...delusions.

Anna Molly - re your post 1.123 .... The President took a giant step forward when he named his nominee to lead the Council of Economic Advisors.

Reading the exploits of Geithner et al in the books I cited earlier, as well as Matt Taibbi's Griftopia I am compelled to agree with your observations.

John A, not sure how those descriptions respond as not left leaning radicals? Certainly Stiglitz is known as anti capitalist which if you believe in historical USA market economics he would be considered radical so not sure how what you put up proved him wrong. By the way, not sure that makes them or you wrong but it frames your arguments and positions. Doesnt mean your right either.

Ridgelon: someone who doesn't understand that government workers spend their money the same way everybody else does has no business lecturing other people on "economics 101".

The fact is, the economy came close to collapsing, but because of the stimulus, it did not. The stimulus that passed was too small to do any more than that. Blaming Obama for the stagnation now is expecting too much to be done with too little.

Kirk -- The truth is the economy fell apart when fraudulent bubbles were created in the housing market. In the late 90"s the technology boom and bust at least weeded out the weak and created solid companies with strong growth. When you create a bubble out of nothing (mortgage derivatives) it creates of vacuum that sucks out wealth so we are left with nothing but a nation of a debt of about 9 trillion and a lost decade of real growth.

If ever there was a time for huge spending measures by the government it would be now. I hope Obama comes out with several trillion dollars spending stimulus package, why not? We desperately NEED to spend much more money, hell, the stubborn 9.1% unemployment numbers scream for a govenrment stimulus, imagine how much more we would need if the unemployment numbers got into the teens? Let's spend those trillions of dollars to make several hundred thousand dollar jobs, we can do better than the last stimulus, like how many jobs, thousands hundreds, of jobs were created out of the billions of stimulus money?

Hopefully, this time the money will actually go to help the economy rather than pay-off campaign contributors and unions.

Obama has racked up plenty of tactical legislative accomplishments, but he hasn’t gotten credit for them.

Well we keep trying to give him "credit" for his tactical accomplishments but he keeps saying his accomplishments are Republicans fault.

Honestly if you listen to him and the Democrats talk you wouldn't think they controlled congress for the last 4 years, and had two years where the Republicans didn't even have enough votes to filibuster a bill.

Obama Accomplishments = (downgraded credit rating, health care bill that has been found unconstitutional, stimulus after stimulus that has produced no jobs but is high in fraud, no Olympic games, wars continued and expanded, housing continuing to decline, and the continued destruction of the dollar- just to name a few)

Bev said:

You have a problem with Rev Al because he knocks you off you racist white haven stances ? No Bev. I don't have any problem with Rev Al. He hasn't knocked me off any racist white haven stances because I am not a racist.

Okay if you say so; you're not a racist but you are an un-educationed fool. Uneducated, eh? Seems as though I caught you at a pristine moment. Your only response is that I am uneducated... no other comment to back that opinion up... just calling me a name sure does substantiate your intellectual prowess Bev. Next, I'll be expecting more name calling from the enlightened racist. Deny you are a racist Bev... I'm waiting to read those words from you. Tell us how much you love white people. How white people are your bestest friends in the entire world. I'll be looking for the ice cubes in hell while I wait.

I'd like to know what century you are talking about Bev. Do blacks need more rights? Last I checked, blacks have the same rights as I do. Let's talk about voter suppression. What is your opinion on the Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly? Eric Holder (the black attorney general) totally dismissed the case without even listening to it. Do you consider it fair that the black panthers did what they did? In today's age and time. Don't go back 50 years ago... we are talking about today.

That shows how ignorant you are. You must think I'm going to agree with the Black T- potty fools.

Um... Bev... I didn't mention anything about the Tea Party. It was the Black Panthers that were supressing votes in Philly... it wasn't the Tea Party. The news crew interviewed the BP member standing in front of the door and he said he hated white people. Since you deflected the comment I'm going to take it you agree with him.

You got Allen West making tainted statements like he is a modern day Harriet Tubman. When nothing could be further from the truth. In reality he is a modern slave catcher wanting to return the Black race to the repressive and submission views of the days slavery and Jim Crow

So you know all about Allen West. Have you been following him? He's not running for president, BTW. I guess you dismiss his stellar military service to this country. I guess you totally dismiss the common sense he delivers at his speeches... Calling another black man names doesn't fit your hate whitey approach Bev.

Permit to borrow these lines from John A.-40047

- Most TP members are white males - So? I guess since you hate whitey this really matters to you.

- Most are not the "political newcomers" of myth, but have been Republican activists for a long time

- Most are fundamentalist Christians

- Most are hostile to immigrants and Blacks - This is an untruth. You substitute the word ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and then it becomes truth. Blacks - a complete fabrication by the liberal left.

If you can't see that I guess then you must be apart of the mix. How about you have fallen prey of the liberal left that spreads lies and rumors about the Tea Party because they are completely afraid of them. I sympathize with you Bev... there is nothing worse than being completely blinded by your ideology.

The New Black Panther Party is a FOX NOISE Meagan Kelly creation and some remnant chump from the Bush backwards a**minstration string the racial pot. So you are denying the New Black Panther party exists... how come I've heard interviews with the leaders of the party? I guess you will deny those interviews too. They don't exist. Nothing so grand as being as blind as a bat. How do you find the bathroom Bev?

Of course, Blacks need more rights because we still haven't gotten freedom justice and equality as other ethnic nationalities; even to this day. Really? You'll have to explain this to me. Tell me how they don't have the right to vote. Tell me how they are oppressed. Tell me how they can't utilize any service, business, government office, building, vehicle, street or home that I can. I really want to hear how the blacks don't have just as much freedom in this country as I do. Maybe it's just that people can't stand you. Did you ever think that might be a possibility?

The President needs to put forth the greatest plan for recovery since the New Deal of FDR. Only by doing so will he be able to get anything accomplished. Mr. Obama need only look to his adopted home town of Chicago to see the truth of the need for planning big:

“Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will themselves not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will not die.” Daniel Burnham, who designed the City of Chicago following the Chicago fire.

What was true in the design of Chicago holds true in every major endeavor a government can undertake. From the Lousianna Purchase, the Erie Canal, the Hoover Dam, the CCC, D-Day, the nuclear bomb, reaching the moon, and to building the Alaska Pipeline every time a great thing needed to be done, government led the way. And every time the cost was born and the benefit spread to all.

The same thing applies to the recovery. It is past time for our country to replace its crumbling infrastructure, much of which was built over 60 years ago. Those improvements must be paid for, which does mean tax increases. That is a fact and it is past time for this President to step up and call out the Congress to act like they want America to succeed. Continued adherance to a flawed philosophy of no tax increases in light of the fact that they don't lead to jobs or an improved economy is simply foolish. It is past time for the foolishness to end!

LogicRequired, it only takes one person to filibuster something, and 60 votes to overcome it, which the Democrats didn't actually have in practice at any point.

Please go look up how many bills the Republicans actually filibustered since Obama took office, then come back here and tell us again where the blame goes. For heaven's sake, they've worn their anti-Obama agenda on their sleeve! Their only priority, as explicitly stated, was to ensure that Obama doesn't get a second term. They literally have not cared about anything else.

Ridgelon

We were told that this stimulus of $850 Billion was needed or the economy of the US would collapse and if passed the jobless rate would never go over 9%, well it passed and everything they said turned out to be a lie.

I guess logic just escapes some of us.

1) It was the view of economists that without a stimulus, unemployment could go over 10%.

2) Obama took heed, put together a stimulus, and repeated the dire forecasts from the economists.

3) Obama explained that the stimulus was estimated to cause a net 2% less unemployment and should keep it in the 8% range.

He didn't lie. It was an estimate. The fact that unemployment went into the 9% range does not mean the stimulus didn't work it's 2% magic. It surely means the economy got worse that the economist estimates. It surely provided SOME jobs and did SOME good... we saw the jobs. And per Republican begging, the states were given control of the spending. THE STATES used the money to fund their local governments in many cases and the money never made it to "the projects".

So the oft repeated statement "Unemployment went over 8% so the stimulus didn't work" is more a testament as to how gullible the right are and how they are apparently incapable of logical and critical thinking.

BTW, yes, Feisty, Obama needs to go HUGE on this one. He'll get a great deal of backing if he does... and will have more room to negotiate... and will then have history on his side.

The President took a giant step forward when he named his nominee to lead the Council of Economic Advisors.

___________________________________

Yeah, since everything I read/hear about this appointment is that he will be no different than Goolsbee, except more left leaning on labor issues, Barry is saying "Full Speed Ahead!!!!" to the economic engine room of his Titanic Presidency.

Good luck with that.

Amusing....here is Obama scrambling with budget woes when he could have done just about anything with a supermajority in power not long ago. So sorry the GOP & Tea Party candidates had to call attention to it; otherwise it would still be spend spend spend with not a worry!

Did he not care then?

Did he forget back then to do it?

Or, more likely is he just plain inept?

PS. It's a COMMENTARY US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired, save your long winded liberal diatrab for the articles you help create on First Read. Really, do you think anybody reads it except for your cohearts? (they probably don't either....just a "check" whenever they see your name)

Brianb -

- Most are hostile to immigrants and Blacks - This is an untruth. You substitute the word ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and then it becomes truth. Blacks - a complete fabrication by the liberal left.

You have your head in the wrong dark crevice, again.

That is a citation from the data the authors of the book named - American Grace. They explained it in considerable detail, and how they learned the facts. If you wish to dispute it, write the authors. They wer quite specific that the TP is mostly hostile to ALL immigrants.

The only time you get to take the bases after Strike Three is if you foul-tip the ball in striking out, and then outrun the throw to first. Head to the showers, loser.

Dont carry it all--the housing bubble wasnt fraudulent and it was real. Do you know what a mortgage derivative is? They werent false and the bubble was a long time coming. All the derivatives did was make mortgages cheaper and too much cash available reducing underwriting criteria. Just like any bubble too much cash was invested into a class of assets that created huge speculative swings in value. People who had no ability to buy or own a home were able to do so and when it crashed just like a stock market crash, it impacted all of us. Everyone was to blame from lenders who eliminated their underwriting criteria to congress dating back to the 90s that pushed Fannie and Freddie to loan to people unable to afford homes. Speculating in mortgages through derivatives by leveraging up the leverage to the point that it took one domino to knock them over was certainly not regulated enough. Unfortunately the current fed policies pushed by Obama in which we are taking the band aid off so very slowly in order to prop up banks and values is keeping us from really moving the housing market back to being stable. We needed to take the band aid very quickly and take the pain and put real estate back in the hands of those who should own it instead of banks. As bad as a foreclosure is, letting them take 2 years to happen whether commerical or residential is just keeping us stagnant. Inventory needs to be flushed through the markets even if real estate hedge funds make a profit.

Ash Plissken

Ridgelon: someone who doesn't understand that government workers spend their money the same way everybody else does has no business lecturing other people on "economics 101".

The fact is, the economy came close to collapsing, but because of the stimulus, it did not. The stimulus that passed was too small to do any more than that. Blaming Obama for the stagnation now is expecting too much to be done with too little.

What saved the economy form collapsing was the Feds backing of all the worthless paper the banks and hedge funds had. The 1 trillion dollar bailout was given to banks so that they wouldn't go under taken others down with them. It also insured lending continued so there wasn't a freeze on money.

Obama's 700 + billion dollar "stimulas" did nothing. Even with the inflated numbers they have of jobs saved and jobs created the tax payer still spent over $240,000 for every $59,000 dollar job created. With the billions in fraud and waste, this was a complete FAILURE and we are actually debating if we should try it again?

Using Chicago as what you want to base your decisions on is LOL funny.

Welcome to Stimulus 2.0, but they'll call it "growing the infrastructure" instead.

The Republicans will vote it down because it's a humungous waste of money that we can't afford.

The Democrats will run to the press and scream "JOB KILLERS!", although the last stimulus failed miserably at creating jobs.

Welcome to Obama's Job Plan.....the plan to try to keep his job.....

Baggers are preventing real Republicans and conservatives from getting the job done. If I were the President, I would go all out, because Baggers don't do anything anyway. What is the point of compromising with them? Boehner is a skilled negotiator and should make sure he gets what he and his allies want, while getting the Baggers put right back in the corner of nothing they belong in.

LogicRequired: If it failed because of the fraud and waste, then how about we try it again without the fraud and waste this time? And how about we actually put money in the hands of the poor and middle class, so that they can increase consumer spending and promote job growth that way?

JohnA - You have your sources and I have mine. Mine all indicated LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL. Sorry, but dems the facts. I don't swing at balks. You balked 3 times so that puts me one base away from home plate... and you are facing a whole bunch more conservatives. Bless your little heart for trying so hard. Your hard left stance doesn't even phase me. Like Navy, your mind is so closed, it's water tight.

Albany Joe:

AM, are you really saying that Barry and the Wicked Witch of the Left that Barry commissioned to write the original Porkulus bill f***ed it up BIG TIME??

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying, except that the "wicked witch" as you call her (I assume you mean Christina Romer) has always complained about having been denied access to the President by Larry Summers, so I think he and the other conservatives who were advising the President have to shoulder THEIR share of the blame, as well.

http://www.newser.com/story/97401/obama-adviser-christina-romer-reportedly-quitting.html

"She has been frustrated," an anonymous source tells the National Journal. "She would be giving different advice than" Summers. The story also quotes a banking consultant who says Summers should be taking the fall for badly underestimating how high the jobless rate would go.

Don't know the truth of all that, but whoever did it was WRONG, and I said so at the time.

In case you didn't hear me, let me say it again:

Placating people like you was WRONG, Joe. It didn't work.

I can't believe you liberals trying to blame Republicans for the fact our economy still sucks. YOU HAVE HAD CONTROL FOR YEARS, and yet you take no responsibility for where we are at? Democrats had control of the House and Senate for Bush's last two lame duck years, then controlled them with super majorities for the next two years while Obama was president, what have you done in that time frame???? Why would anyone vote for a party who continues to take no responsibility for where we are at when they were leading.

You have two choices, one you were in control and your ideas sucked so the economy hasn't improved, or you have been in control but listened to Republicans and the outcome has been an economy that sucks. Either you are to incompetent to have any ideas so you went to the Republicans, or you yourself are incompetent and have no good ideas other then trying to blame others.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Now we have to live with the results of apathy & complacency...

Why should today be any different than any other day?

Apathy and complacency are major characteristics of the liberal-left's constituency.

Kirk -- To create a product out of thin air using other peoples assets for speculation and profit without potential for growth or any tangible benefit to the whole is theft my book. The bubble was real you are correct we just disagree on whether it added value to our society.

I agree that banks need to clean their books up now in totality and quit riding the gravy train of socialized losses. Only then will we find a bottom to this mess.

mmnord --

Who is our Treasury Secretary?

LoL Conservatives always make a big mistake by thinking they can pin me down with this kind of nonsense.

Don't look at me -- Geithner isn't MY Treasury Secretary. I'm no apologist for the President, as those who have been here longer would know.

Looks like my "name-calling" was just about right. Take your stereotyped thinking somewhere else, please.

If ignorance and hypocrisy were currency, this nation would never have a budget deficit.

And how about we actually put money in the hands of the poor and middle class, so that they can increase consumer spending and promote job growth that way?

You mean like Bush did with his stimulus checks?

John A.

I say you're still full of BS. But I still agree with you're statement that Bush "abandoned" his job in 2008 and let Obama take over. That is why we are in the trouble we are in today. And as far as YOU calling the impending doom and writing about it in 2006, why didn't you scream it a little louder so your far left leaning loons would hear you? The Bush administration tried to tell your loonie friends about the impending crash of the housing market as early as 2004. But the aholes in the Congressional Black Caucus and Barney Frank said Bush was wrong. You lefties have caused enough damage to this country so please take your lies and go away. You can continue to bash the Chamber of Commerce and corporations and the rich but it will only make your lives worse. The entitlement seakers in this country can not keep this country going. You will find out, hopefully before it's too late, that you are going to need businesses to keep this country going. By the way, I find you to be a nitwit also. So I guess we are just two nitwits with different views. And your views and ideas are hopefully going to be trashed at the voting booths next election.

Re-posted from my 'Vine article of some time ag - seems like every once in a while, the discous needs substance of a more solid sort:

Several analysts have produced articles that go into detail about the severity of spending cuts necessary to immediately address the current Fedeal defecit and long-term national debt. They paint a pretty thorough picture - and present what is ultimately an "austerity plan" plan more drastic than those imposed in either Greece, Portugal or Ireland.

Such deep cuts not only would be answered with public fury, they are undesirable while the economic crisis persists - cutting spending in the face of recession is a serious mistake. Beyond that, the focus on short-term defecit and debt reduction ignores the broader importance of using government spending as a major policy tool - and ignores the lessons of history. But little matter, in the view of the more conservative Republican members of Congress - they see the cuts as a pathway to alter government at its very roots.

While most authorities agree that debt must be reduced, it is in the matter of approaching that issue that progressives and conservatives have differences. For example, under the new GOP-dominated House rules, every new dollar a measure would spend must be matched by a dollar of cuts from current expenditure. That overturns the prior "pay-as-you-go" rule, which permitted either offsetting spending cuts, or offsetting revenue increases.

The philosophy, according to new Speaker John Boehner, is that "we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem."

To some extent, that is not a bad point of view - in that determined efforts to restrain government spending, and at least very serious consideration of those purposes for which spending is committed, create a more responsible and somber judgement about government expenditures. Nonetheless, revenue is in fact an issue, especially when tax policies discourage job creation at home, long-term capital investment in American business, and expansion of American manufacturing for goods desired in the global marketplace.

Also, the flat denial that sometimes spending, and government debt, have benefits that override pure fiscal conservatism is a serious error on the part of the Speaker and those who agree with him. And the denial that there is a revenue problem is likewise a significant error - but it is a duplicitous position, too, masking the intent of the House now to protect corporate and higher-income tax loopholes, exemptions, and policies that are extremely unpopular in the country.

In broad terms, the conflict is one of a philosophy of government - today's House majority wishes to change the philosophy that has evolved since the FDR Administration, in which government is seen as:

• distributing national resources where needs exist,
• developing institutions to oversee business practices,
• protection of natural resources (environmental regulation),
• safety of the food supply,
• promote public health and respond to epidemics,
• encourage American commerce abroad,
• promote education,
• protect civil rights,
• regulate labor relations,
• invest in public infrastructure,
• stabilize the money supply,
• and in times of economic distress mitigate the effects of recession while helping to bring the economy back to health.

In contrast, one faction in the GOP House majority takes the view that virtually all of those functions, where they are even admitted as a government function, are more properly the task of state governments. Some of the House majority would eliminate virtually every one of those functions.

The emerging mechanism for implementing the conservative philosophy of government is so-called debt reduction by deep cuts in government spending.

However, the spending cuts are not debt reduction, although theyn will aid in reducing current Federal defecits, which of course in time add to the national debt. Still it is impossible, and even undesirable in current conditions, to attempt to match present public expenses with present revenues.

Those who liken managing government fiances to running a business or keeping the household books do not recognize that the government is not a business and that depending on circumstances, debt is both necessary and desirable.

Governments engage in very expensive, long-range activities that are not conducted for profit, opposite to the activities of a business. Whether those activities include costly wars, as the U.S. has been doing for 10 years, major highway construction, as the country is constantly doing, or massive emergency programs answering the demands of an economic collapse, as has been the case since 2008, they are undertaken in the public interest and paid for with long-term debt.

This practice evolved beginning in the 1690's, when the War of the League of Augsburg (1688-1697) financially exhausted Britain and France. France attempted to fund the war with short-term, high-interest loans and current receipts, eventually becoming so stressed that she accepted the Peace of Ryswick in 1697 with virtually nothing to show for the years of struggle.

Britain, however, in 1693 recognized that short-term defecit spending without making timely payments to vital suppliers, sailors and soldiers, was undermining the country and causing terrible hardship among the merchants, farmers, lumberjacks and all others involved. So in 1694 the Bank of England was born and the beginnings of a principle of national debt, amortized over time, was born. It ultimately financed England's industrialization and empire, enabling the country to weather economic troubles and wars and ultimately prevail in the contests of European powers for more than 200 years.

(See Peter Padfield,Tide of Empires, Vol. !!, 1654-1763, Routledge & Kegan Paul, Ltd., London, 1982)

Similarly, some public debt is called for under present circumstances in the United States. While the character and terms of the financial institutions' bailout is open to considerable criticism, the fact of its necessity is not. Neither was the preservation of a core American industry, auto manufacturing (despite the Libertarian ideology to let it fail, a bankrupt view in its own right).

Regardless of the carping of the right wing ideologues, the stimulus program of 2009-2010 clearly succeeded. And unlike many prior recessions - notably those of the early Reagan Administration, the G.H.W. Bush Administration, and the 2001-2002 recession of G.W. Bush's Administration - this recession is being accompanied by a slow but accelerating rate of job creation. Only 1.2 million jobs were created in 2010, but an economists' survey by CNN recently forecast between 2.5 and 3 million new jobs, at minimum, in 2011.

These and other events under President Obama's stewardship prevented both the risk of full-blown Depression, and preserved an economic foundation for more robust recovery than was anticipated in recent years. And it required that the government undertake debt in order to pursue that vital public interest.

The present GOP House majority is taking a very short-sighted view of the national debt and current-accounts defecit. In contrast, during his messages in 2009 and 2010, the President clearly outlined a long-range approach toward first, reducing defecit speding in a relatively few years, and second, attacking the size of the national debt. That approach is consistent with responsible broad management of public policy and obligations.

The President's approach also keeps faith with a philosophy of government that seeks to create social stability, enhance opportunity for individual advancement, encourage not only growth in small businesses but also (for the first time since 1980) rebuild American manufacturing capacity, sustain the health and well-being of all Americans, provide for the future through education, and nurture the helpless.

This philosophy of government is neither socialist nor Communist, as some on the far right complain, but instead a system in which the benefits of an open and vigorous society are accessible at all levels of the economic scale - and enable greater mobility for those willing to strive and create or sieze opportunity.

In contrast, the philosophy of government espoused by the GOP House majority now aggravates the stratification of social and economic classes, uses tax policy to transfer wealth from the middle and lower classes to the higher income class, promotes depression of wages and benefits for workers, abandons the sick, the elderly, the poor and the helpless, splinters national identity in favor of sectionalism, and with a vengeance reinstates the ancient warning, Caveat emptor (Buyer beware!), in all areas of business and consumer transactions.

An America that steadily restores her economy, generates jobs, incomes and revenues to refill the public Treasury, and shelters her people from the worst effects of very hard times is what the President and the Democrats in Congress saw as their vision for the past two years. And it is a vision well on the way to becoming reality.

Unthinking adherence to short-term defecit reduction and lack of understanding about the role of national debt and how to resolve it over time gives the current House majority a tool to destroy that vision. And quite possibly, plunge the nation back into deep economic crisis.

Albany Joe:

And now you are advocating giving these same clowns another loaded gun with which to shoot the American people in the foot??

Missed this the first time. Try to pay attention. That's exactly the OPPOSITE of what I am saying.

I'm saying we need some NEW economic advisers, who think in terms of REAL stimulus, rather than those phony baloney guys like Summers and Geithner and that guy from Goldman that got us into this mess.

They're the ones who said that tax cuts would work, and that's why 36 percent of the stimulus was made up of tax cuts, which you love, but which apparently did NOT work.

I'm saying stop listening to people who think like YOU, Joe. It's killing us.

Ash Plissken

LogicRequired: If it failed because of the fraud and waste, then how about we try it again without the fraud and waste this time? And how about we actually put money in the hands of the poor and middle class, so that they can increase consumer spending and promote job growth that way?

You think they could spend hundreds of billions and not have fraud and waste? Fraud and waste go hand in hand with every government agency and program, sad but true. The problem isn't so much the fraud and waste, or where the money goes the problem is how it works. The government has NO MONEY, the money they spend is taken from the economy in the form of taxes, or is borrowed. So everytime the government puts 100 billion dollars into the economy they will have to take out of the economy 150 billion dollars to cover that spending. Interest, waste is why it is not dollar for dollar. The government is basically saying we will help you out with some money today but will come back and raise your taxes tomorrow to help pay back what we gave you, and you need to pay us more then what you got because we now owe interest on what we lent you. This doesn't work, has never worked, not in Japan, not in Britain, and not in America. The government needs to get there house in order and give some stability to the economy, less borrowing, quit changing the rules and regulations every other month and make businesses never sure what their cost are going to be, and make us a business friendly nation to promote companies coming here and keep companies from leaving.

Back in the depression, Hoover thought the best way to fix the economy was to ecourage business to hire, and for people to come to the aid of other people in need. The Government had no place in spending directly to help the economy. History tells us how that worked out. Credit where credit is due, however, some of Hoover's ideas were immediately adopted by FDR, and they were government programs to directly employ people. They weren't passed during Hoover's term because a) he tried to put them in place to late, and b) they were being held up in a democratically controlled congress for political reasons. Sound familiar at all? Anyway, the solution, which is already written down in black and white in most reputable histories, is that government had to use SPENDING on a HUGE scale to arrest the deflationary freefall.

People that say spending is not they answer are either ignorant of history, or just lying for political reasons.

Anna Molly,

Breathe Sweetie, breathe.

LoL Conservatives always make a big mistake by thinking they can pin me down with this kind of nonsense.

Nobody's trying to "pin ya down" Baby. Just responding to your statement of leadership basics. It's all good.

And btw, yes, Mr. Tax Cheat is YOUR Treasury Secretary. He's mine too. Now if you meant, "I would not have chosen him", I can get that. But to say he's not ours is like saying "This is not MY President". Foolosh.

Looks like my "name-calling" was just about right. Take your stereotyped thinking somewhere else, please.

Nahh, I kinda like it here. I think I'll stay for a spell. My days have become sooo much more fun since meeting Crusty, Mrs. Bev "Resist We Much" Sharpton and you! Plus I get to work on my typing skills (Which rock!)

P.S. I'm pretty sure Crusty has a secret crush on me. Just sayin

Brianb -

Standard Rovian tactics, again. Just bluster and deflect and don't offer one piece of credible evidence. Your game ain't worth the candle. Just another useless, empty-headed blowhard.

John A, so you just engaged in Alinsky tactics so which is worse? Instead of personally attacking him prove he was wrong. Why act from the radical playbook?

Kirk -- In addition I would add that a persons mortgage is a contract between two parties, the bank and the mortgagee. A private transaction not public. And certainly not a product for investors to gamble with. In other words not up for consumption in my book.

LogicReguired: "The government has NO MONEY, the money they spend is taken from the economy in the form of taxes, or is borrowed. So everytime the government puts 100 billion dollars into the economy they will have to take out of the economy 150 billion dollars to cover that spending. Interest, waste is why it is not dollar for dollar. The government is basically saying we will help you out with some money today but will come back and raise your taxes tomorrow to help pay back what we gave you, and you need to pay us more then what you got because we now owe interest on what we lent you."

You're conveniently ignoring the effects of actual economic growth. The economy is not the zero-sum game you make it out to be.

Also, companies are already sitting on piles of unspent profits. Putting more money in their pockets by making it cheaper for them to do business is not going to magically make them put those profits back into the economy.

I always find it interesting that those on this board, who can be categorized as "left", use statistics and facts to back up their points. While those on the "right" simply argue that they are wrong, with no supporting statistics to prove their point.

Case in point, Navy provided excellent examples of rising deficits and spending over the Bush and Obama years, showing the primary source of spending lies with Bush. Yet, those on the right still blame spending on Obama. Of course, when asked to detail the exact spending expenditures that Obama has implemented, and compare those numbers to Bush, those on the right change the subject.

More funny points... a conservative here called Warren Buffet a lefty liberal. Really? Buffet, a liberal? Really? That's like calling the pope an atheist.

And I believe it was Roy (a known liar) who claimed that the Tea Party "did not" hold the country hostage, destroy our credit rating, and wreck the economy. Yet they, themselves, admitted that their goal was to cause chaos in the market... and they achieved just that. So they are not responsible, even though they admitted to it? It's a good thing I bet against the Tea Party in the market, I saved myself from huge losses.

Albany Joe:

AM, are you really saying that Barry and the Wicked Witch of the Left that Barry commissioned to write the original Porkulus bill f***ed it up BIG TIME??

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying, except that the "wicked witch" as you call her (I assume you mean Christina Romer) has always complained about having been denied access to the President by Larry Summers, so I think he and the other conservatives who were advising the President have to shoulder THEIR share of the blame, as well.

___________________________________

I see I've been demoted from "judge". LOL!!!

C'mon AM, you know I was referring to the Queen of Botox, who is now demoted from flying a free Air Force Learjet back and forth to SF, to flying her own broom round trip. As far as dissension among Barry's advisors, weren't the Obamabot's initially touting that he would lead a "team of rivals" like Lincoln?? From abcnews.com May 22, 2008 9:14pm:

"I will tell you, though, that my goal is to have the best possible government, and that means me winning," Obama said, per ABC News’ Sunlen Miller. "And so, I am very practical minded. I’m a practical-minded guy. And, you know, one of my heroes is Abraham Lincoln."

Obama then referred to "a wonderful book written by Doris Kearns Goodwin called ‘Team of Rivals,’ in which [she] talked about [how] Lincoln basically pulled in all the people who had been running against him into his Cabinet because whatever, you know, personal feelings there were, the issue was, ‘How can we get this country through this time of crisis?’"

How's that working out for you, Barry. (and AM??)

The president should go big, real big, (no sense in pissing on a forest fire) with no tax cuts, tax cuts do not create jobs, if they did somebody would be hiring by now. Tax cuts for business does not create customers for that business, and nobody hires unless they have some work for the new hire to do. Business needs customers not tax breaks, the small businesses that are folding are not folding because their taxes are to high (they have never been lower) they are folding because they have no customers. Oh were will all that money come from? It will come from China, the same place we get the money for the wars, the same place the money comes from to fund the tax cuts for the wealthy, and nobody really cares where the money comes from, not even the Republicans, because the money comes from the same place when they spend it on the wealthy, it will come from China. The money needs to be injected at the bottom and flow up if you want to lift all boats. Trickle down and business tax cuts just creates more profit on shrinking sales, it does not increase demand for goods and services, so in turn it does not create jobs. If your kids need new shoes you get them for them even if you have to put it on a credit card, as for as this country is concerned God knows baby needs new shoes.

It would appear that to support the policies of the right wing, one MUST have no memory. Right-wingers can repeat with nauseating regularity talking points that include "job-killing", "failed stimulus", and other similarly vacuous phrases and terms. However, talking points fail miserably in the blinding light of facts.

Somehow or other, the fabulous Bush tax cuts - you know, the solution to everything including venereal disease - failed to grow the GDP. By golly, it actually shrank. Here's a link. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/10/30/candidate_reaction_gdp_decline.html

For those who wish to blame a profligate Congress, this would be a good time to point out that President Bush NEVER vetoed a single spending bill. Son of one gun, who woulda thunk it?

Now, if that's hard to believe, you're going to choke on this. The GDP of a state led by a paragon of economic wisdom actually declined in 2008. That's right, Alaska went down, down, down - more than any other state, as a matter of fact. The link I'm supplying is probably some left-wing propaganda arm funded by George Soros, because there's just no way GDP could decline on Sarah Palin's watch, no sirree Bob. http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_state/2009/gsp0609.htm

I'm sure hoping a right-winger can help me out on this. Instead of telling us the orientation of political sources like Frank, Stiglitz, Scheer, MediaMatters, FactCheck, Snopes, and others, why don't you present facts.

For instance, you might check this link that shows that this country's economic decline began on the Bush watch and accelerated downward. On President Obama's watch, the economy has trended up. Dispute the facts, not the source. http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2011/07/tales_from_gdp.html

Dont carry it all--if your asking me whether I approved of it that wasnt the point but I dont. I was just pointing out that like alot of things, blame needs to be spread around and they are just one piece of the puzzle. Its not that the mortgage back securities in of themselves were gambling or necessarily bad, its that the normal regulatory and probably most importantly rating agencies were not during their jobs. If the securities were rated appropriately and the investors knew the risk adjusted returns were completely way off, money would not have flooded into the sector providing a cheap source of mortgage loans.

As for the banks, you realize that the reason the banks havent cleaned up their balance sheets like previous real estate recessions is that the government isnt forcing them to. By allowing them to remain on their books, and intentionally slowing down the foreclosure and value rationalization process, your just preventing the housing sector to recover. Its intentional by the current administration as they made a bet that the ripping the band aid slowly would work better than all at once.

Bev, post 1.42 - Being a nobel prize winner doesn't imply competence in getting a multifaceted economy rolling again, especially when it comes to an economy whose downfall was based in main part by easy credit, debt and that prices/wages woud aways move upwards.

Mark in so cal (post 1.74) - As the incumbant, obama should not be in a "campaign mode" as you say. but he should be going for a unity of purpose within the congressional and executive branches. Past fiscal policy from both sides and the electorates acceptance of those policies gave us our current slow economic growth outlook. Let obama continue on with his campaign rhetoric if he dares, it won't help him win in 2012. Consumer and business confidence is in decline or at best in a holding pattern, and only the perception of effective political leadership will restore the optimism of the populace to move forward.

That's exactly the OPPOSITE of what I am saying.

I'm saying we need some NEW economic advisers, who think in terms of REAL stimulus, rather than those phony baloney guys like Summers and Geithner and that guy from Goldman that got us into this mess.

______________________________________________

And yet Barry just appointed a same old, same old, far left moron to head the CEA, virtually guaranteeing he will get the same old, same old, failed policy advice of more and bigger Keynesian deficit spending "stimulus". Sounds like you really believe America needs a new President, since this one keeps repeating his same old, same old, mistakes.

BTW, can you provide a detail or two as to what you consider "REAL stimulus"?? And also maybe explain why the greatest minds of the Barry admin seem to be so oblivious to it??

Funny how these liberals, even after 32 months continue to deny the facts that our economy is not on solid ground due to this administrations policies. The Obama "sugar" highs end and the economy's little jolt ends. The next 16 months will be no different. Obama will propose another round of "sugar" highs and hope that allow him to sway voters into a false sense that he, Obama know what he is doing. The only way we are going to turn this economy around is with a new President who will encourage free enterprise and provide a sense of certainty. Something Obama is unwilling to do for some reason.

bob-1805084

The average recovery time for a recession is 2.3 quarters.

Out of the last 11 recessions, no recovery has exceeded 3 quarters.

Obama's recovery is at 8 quarters and worse is showing no signs of moving.

Simply appalling.

Giving Obama more money to create jobs is like buying a laptop for a monkey to research bannas.

Neither one have a clue what to do with it.

So Bob they way you put that i would agree, so i will say this, giving tax cuts to create jobs when the 1.2 trillion in breaks did not stop this recession we are in now is the same thing.

So when are the republicans going to stop playing with their bannas and do something other thasn tax breaks to create jobs.

Tony C: "The only way we are going to turn this economy around is with a new President who will encourage free enterprise and provide a sense of certainty. Something Obama is unwilling to do for some reason."

Except for the fact that the administration is currently in the process of reviewing hundreds of federal business regulations for reform, specifically to encourage the growth of small businesses.

Sorry, you were saying something about denying the facts?

Ash Plissken

You're conveniently ignoring the effects of actual economic growth. The economy is not the zero-sum game you make it out to be. I'm not sure your point here, but yes the economy is not a zero-sum game, the government could put 100 billion into it, giving us growth, and making it easier when they then go and take 150 billion out of the economy to pay for what they put in, but that is the theory everyone goes by but never pans out, just like it didn't pan out this last time or every other time it has been tried like my examples of Japan, and Britain. It's not that I'm against stimulus for some political reason, they just don't work they way they are intended to. Besides my point was to show how the government isn't really putting anything into the economy that it doesn't have to take out of the economy.

Also, companies are already sitting on piles of unspent profits. Putting more money in their pockets by making it cheaper for them to do business is not going to magically make them put those profits back into the economy. I never said put more money into their pockets, I said "The government needs to get there house in order and give some stability to the economy, less borrowing, quit changing the rules and regulations every other month and make businesses never sure what their cost are going to be, and make us a business friendly nation to promote companies coming here and keep companies from leaving." Stability being the key word. Businesses, and investors like to know what enviroment they are in, and right now the government is consitantly changing its policies and regulation so Companies keep their money on the sidelines until they know what kind of water they are getting in. In general I think higher taxes hurts economies but I am not opposed to tax reform so large companies like G.E. don't get tax free years, and I'm not saying higher taxes for the rich (those making over 2million dollars a year, not those making over over $250,000) should be off the table. But the government can not continue to borrow to infinity and needs to pass a balanced budget and set in place something that businesses know will not change overnight. Raise taxes on the super wealthy while lowering the Capital Gains tax, eliminate tax loopholes while lowering the Corporate tax rate, make things easier for everyone to understand and give them some insentive to put their money back into the game, the government would get much more revenue if the got off the sidelines and they wouldn't even have to raise taxes.

Boy brianb ....way to go! You managed to shut Bev up! I live in down town Detroit and I know how hard that is to do! With all the finger waving and talk to the hand BS.

It isn't so much going big or small, rather it's exposing the GOP/TP for what they are -- Obstructionist arseholes. The majority of Americans have seen the olive branches and concessions made by the Dems being rejected time and again by Republicans. The majority of Americans also watched the debt debacle and know fully well it was Cantor and the Teabagger minority who actually wanted to default and used this to hold the nation's good faith and credit hostage.

What the president will now do is present a plan that includes many Republican ideas, which are popular, and even some pork in Republican districts he knows secretly that they want. And he, along with the Dems, and hopefully mainstream media will expose the far-right rat bastards for who they really are--finally circumventing the FOX Noise/Hate Radio filter.

Cantor/Teabaggers and their ilk must be placed between a rock and a hard spot -- Either say NO yet again to popular ideas for job creation and improving the economy and losing seats in 2012, or say yes and try to take some credit for any improvements before the 2012 election (which will be hard to do since it will be the president's proposal backed by the Dems).

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" B-bye you friggin' right-wing Haters.

David, google any GDP growth charts and you are providing misleading statistics. GDP grew substantially on a quarterly basis or nominal basis of substantially after the 02 tax cuts. The economy grew 6% in 03 and 04 and it was still growing on a nominal basis when Bush left office shrinking afterwards. Lets make sure we are arguing with the right set of facts. There is debate whether the tax cuts helped the economy enough to offset the reduction in tax revenue I understand with most economist coming down against the tax cuts. But lets stay within the realm of truth. I agree that Bush, the GOP led congress and the Pelosi led congress never met a spending bill they didnt like but I assume you liked the spending in that I dont see any of the progressive gang proposing any spending cuts with the current spending spree

LogicReguired:

[YOU HAVE HAD CONTROL FOR YEARS, and yet you take no responsibility for where we are at? Democrats had control of the House and Senate for Bush's last two lame duck years, then controlled them with super majorities for the next two years while Obama was president, what have you done in that time frame????]

There's the old "super-majority" monster rearing it's ugly head again...but let's take a look at that "super-majority", shall we (are you listening, Spanky)?

January 3, 2009 - 111th Congress sworn in. 55 Democrats, 41
Republicans, 2 Independents, 2 vacant.

January 15, 2009 - Roland Burris sworn in to Barack Obama's seat.
56 Democrats, 41 Republicans, 2 Independents, 2 vacant.

April 30, 2009 – Arlen Specter changes parties. 57 Democrats, 40
Republicans, 2 Independents, 1 vacant.

July 7, 2009 – Al Franken seated. 58 Democrats, 40 Republicans, 2
Independents. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THE DEMOCRATS HAD A SHOT AT A
60-VOTE MAJORITY.

August 25, 2009 – Teddy Kennedy dies. Kennedy had missed 97% of
the votes in 2009 and over 90% in the last half of 2008. 57 Democrats, 40
Republicans, 2 Independents, 1 vacant.

September 25, 2009 – Paul Kirk appointed to Teddy Kennedy's seat.
58 Democrats, 40 Republicans, 2 Independents.THIS IS THE SECOND TIME
THE DEMOCRATS HAD A SHOT AT A 60-VOTE MAJORITY.

February 4, 2010 – Scott Brown sworn in to replace Paul Kirk. 57
Democrats, 41 Republicans, 2 Independents.

June 28, 2010 – Robert Byrd dies. Byrd had missed over 90% of the
votes in 2010 and almost 50% in 2009 due to illness. 56 Democrats, 41
Republicans, 2 Independents, 1 vacant.

November 29, 2010 - Mark Kirk sworn in to replace Roland Burris.
56 Democrats, 42 Republicans, 2 Independents.

FACT: The "Democrat super-majority" was a myth, or
rather, a GOP political spin to hide their actions.

FACT: The GOP used every roadblock, filibuster, and secret hold
they could think of so that EVERY bill had to have a 60-vote margin to pass.

FACT: It only takes one representative to filibuster...ONE...

So that "Huge, overwhelming super-majority," It existed only for a total of 6 months AND only during two periods when Teddy Kennedy and/or Robert Byrd were unable to vote AND required them to get the votes of every Democrat plus BOTH independents.

While we are all entitled to our own opinions, we are MOST CERTAINLY NOT entitled to our own facts...

Joey your post at 1.38 was the best case for raising taxes on the wealthy, and closing their loopholes I have seen in a long time. I am glad you are trying to talk some sense to the conservative base about the tax laws, instead of just your regular useless insults of the president and other posters. Keep up the good work Joey boy.

True Patriot, can you provide a list of compromise legislation during the period of 2008 that Pelosi, Reid and the gang put forth to the GOP to get them to the table or did they try to ram their legislation through? I want to know why the democrats arent the obstructionists? Did they offer tort reform to lower the cost of doing business and lower the cost of Obamacare or did the trial lawyers lobby prevent that? Did they offer any compromises on the stimulus pork project for republican congressmen to get them to the table to vote for it? Oh thats right that offered them up to Nelson in Ok and Landrieu in Loiuisianna. Where can you point me to some action on behalf of democratic platform or bills that were intended to compromise on spending? Entitlement reform? No. Education reform? No that would fly against the teachers unions and actually trying to improve the education gap isnt good for teachers. Immigration reform? No Come on True Patriot if its all the GOP's fault I am sure you can provide me a list of compromise solutions that the democrats put forth that were solutions that the GOP could get behind.

LogicReguired: "I never said put more money into their pockets," ... "eliminate tax loopholes while lowering the Corporate tax rate,"

Lowering the corporate tax rate is putting more money in their pockets.

Kirk (1.188)..... you will never get a response from a liberal to substantiate their wacky claims or anit-conservative viterol... believe me, Ive tried!

Newly Independent

Are you kidding us? Navy does not provide good facts. He provides so-called facts right from the most liberal sources out there. Also, Buffet is to the left. And one more thing, if you are going to state that some Tea Party memebers actually stated they wanted to cause chaos in the market you need to prove your words. Exactly who said it and when? There is a group out there right now planning to cause chaos in the markets but they are a far left group headed by Stephen Lerner who is a former SEIU executive. Not really a TP member. Please don't confuse Navy with the truth. He puts up spending numbers and every American knows it is Congress that spends. So take those numbers and check to see who controlled Congress at the time and who from what party voted for the expeditures. It will give you true facts. Not only that but we heard from John A. today who told us that Bush "abandoned" his post in 2008 and let Obama take over, so spending numbers MUST belong to Obama since 2008. Right?

Keep up the good work Joey boy.

_______________________

Who you callin' "boy"??

You racist pig. Bev and Nasty are gonna be all over your KKK white sheet covered a$$.

Tell your story to St. Warren of the Left. Today's P.T. Barnum speaking on the lefty liberals willingness to believe any nonsense that a carnival barker makes sound sweet enough to their tax increase addled brains..

Ash Plissken

LogicReguired: "I never said put more money into their pockets," ... "eliminate tax loopholes while lowering the Corporate tax rate,"

Lowering the corporate tax rate is putting more money in their pockets.

Really?? So which system does G.E. pay more in taxes, one with high tax rates but lots of loopholes (our current system) or one with no loopholes but lower tax rates so they don't jump ship and move overseas??? Which system do they pay more taxes in??? Since G.E. paid nothing last year even though America has the second highest Corporate Tax rate in the world makes me think my idea would leave them with less money in there pocket.

newly independent - the thing about statistics is how they can be skewed by rhetoric to show something that they don't really show. IE what someone says doesn't really correlate to what the numbers show.

An example...

The obama (bush) tax cuts if left to expire in 2013 would supposidly add over $3 trillion in increased revenue over 10 years. Of this $3 trillion many lefty's say that the wealthy would be paying about $800 billion more over ten years and that therefore their cuts should be eliminated, while the 98%'s should stay the same. Seems that $2.2 trillion plus left on the table by the 98% would also be a fair share contribution in reducing our debt. The conundrum lies in the argument of how taxes can stimulate or hinder the economy and who one says should be part of the solution.

If you want to say that the right doesn't use facts, statistics or numbers you are ignoring government supplied numbers relating to the labor departments non-farm employment numbers, unemployment claims, historical debt and deficits numbers. Then you can also take into account economists and business leader projections for growth both domestically and globally.

With recessions occuring every 7-12 years, why is it that no economist, business leader or politician has devised a working plan to avoid them or at least minimize their effect?

BTW - with obama in control of the executive branch for the last 2 1/2 years and the democrats in total control of the congress from 2007 thru 2010, does it really require statistics to show that the lefts policies have been ineffective?

Mickey....

Senators can vote by proxy. As a matter of fact, the guy who proxy voted for Kennedy took his seat until they filled it via election.

You had the supermajority, and got nothing done. Period. You all talk about how much stuff you were gonna get done, had the chance to do so, but couldn't even get your own party to agree on what that stuff was going to be.

@ american-2051576 (re. post 1.177)

I agree the incumbent should not be in campaign mode, his time and energies would be better served, as you put it "going for a unity of purpose within the congressional and executive branches." But the reality is he has not been able to do this up to this point in his presidency and I see nothing to indicate this will change.

Mickey, NY

FACT: The "Democrat super-majority" was a myth, or
rather, a GOP political spin to hide their actions.

The two so called " independents" both voted with democrats which gave them 60, plus Republicans like Olympia Snow were easily recruited to the democrat side. FACT: Obama care passed without one single Republican vote, how is this possible since Democrats had no control. The fact is the only reason it didn't pass sooner is because many Democrats hated the bill, it had nothing to do with Repblicans.

FACT: The GOP used every roadblock, filibuster, and secret hold
they could think of so that EVERY bill had to have a 60-vote margin to pass.

Did Democrats not do the same when Republicans controlled the Senate and White House? Did you give Bush a pass on the economy because Republicans didn't have free reign??

FACT: It only takes one representative to filibuster...ONE...

Yes, but that one representative must keep talking forever, because once he stops voting can continue. Did any Republican ever defeat an Obama bill with this one filibuster method??? Answer...... NO

So that "Huge, overwhelming super-majority," It existed only for a total of 6 months AND only during two periods when Teddy Kennedy and/or Robert Byrd were unable to vote AND required them to get the votes of every Democrat plus BOTH independents. So again your saying the Independents weren't voting with the Democrats? Or are you saying democrats need complete control because they can not work with Republicans to get anything passed but you don't have that same standard when Republicans are in power without a Supermajority.

While we are all entitled to our own opinions, we are MOST CERTAINLY NOT entitled to our own facts

Again the FACT is Democrats were able to pass Obama care without one Rebublican vote because they had control. Republicans never had the numbers Democrats had yet you blame them when they have always had to at least get some Democrats to side with them to pass anything even when they had control. My point was and still is you democrat / liberals want to blame everyone else when you have at least shared in this mess that has been created and it disgust me how you take no responsibility for anything even when your people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd have had there hands on the economy for years, passing bills, writing rules and regulations, telling us Fannie and Freddie were sound and not in any trouble. No one should vote for a party that has had this much control yet still chooses to blame everyone else.

Kirk -- I do realize the reason they are not cleaning up the books and would argue all eyes and blame should be on Congress as a whole, the ones that have the power to put an end to the gravy train. Presidents will come and go but it is our legislators that have failed us. The onerous is on them and I am afraid they are not up to the task and haven't been for far too long. Zero sum is not a solution. Obstructions are not solutions. The same old remedies lack in boldness. Do not go big or small GO BOLD. Change the dynamics so that fresh ideas can cleanse the air and re-focus our Country on new objectives to move us out of the quagmires, stagnation and blame games we have all become so accustomed to and accept as a form of governance.

JH,

You are talking in circles. First it is Obama on a spending spree, then you say it is Congress that spends... then it is Obama, then Congress, then Obama. Just be a man and admit that you change your stance depending on who you want to attack. When you are attacking Obama, you blame him. When facts are thrown in your face to show that Obama has not increased spending to the point you claim, you flip and blame Congress. I would say, "Make up your mind"... but we all know you will change your mind depending on your attack strategy. You lose all credibility because you constantly change who you blame. Is it the President, or Congress? Pick one.

If you continue to switch back and forth, do us all a favor. When you are on the Obama blame-train again, go ahead and detail out the exact spending bills that Obama has signed. Not the spending that has carried over from the previous administration, not the drop in revenue... the actual bills, signed by Obama, and the total amount spent. Then, compare that to the total amount signed and spend by the previous administration. This should be an easy way for you to use numbers and facts to support the "spending spree" argument... a "spree" naturally meaning a significant increase in the amount spent when compared to the previous administration. Of course, we all know you will not do this because it does not support your argument. So you will change the blame (once again) from Obama to the previous Congress, and we start all over.

Tea Party memebers actually stated they wanted to cause chaos in the market you need to prove your words. Exactly who said it and when?

July, 2011, John Boehner stated that the goal of the Tea Party was to cause chaos. Good Lord, man. How bad is your memory? It was last month, and you have already forgotten? Your leader, the single most powerful man in your party, admitted to this. McCain also made similar statements, but let me guess, you don't like McCain so you just ignore that.

And calling Buffet a liberal is laughable. He says one thing you do not agree with, and you immediately go into attack mode, trying to demonize him despite the obvious facts that he is conservative. But that is your strategy, is it not? One conservative says one thing... just one thing... that you do not agree with, and you label them "liberal". So much for any hope of compromise.

Considering that you change your "blame game" depending on who you want to attack (Legislative vs. Executive branch), and your memory is so horrifically bad that you have no recollection of last month... I see no reason to further debate someone of your intellectual stature. You will obviously continue to purge your memory and spread lies to support your stance. Good day.

JohnA said:

Brianb -

Standard Rovian tactics, again. Just bluster and deflect and don't offer one piece of credible evidence. Your game ain't worth the candle. Just another useless, empty-headed blowhard.

When all else fails, call those that disagree with you names. Alinsky rule number 6. Ridicule is an effective weapon against your opponent.

John - liberalism is what ails this country. It's the elite, arrogant liberals that believe they are 100% correct and anyone that doesn't subscribe to their line of thinking is a useless, empty-headed blowhard.

While you trapse around thinking your so intelligent ideas are the magna-carta of all thought, you fail to even consider that liberal ideas do nothing to help society. What have liberal ideas gotten us so far? They brought us Obama... the worst president we've ever had... a deep thinker long on rethoric but a failure in action. Liberals brought us many socialist programs and entitlement to the poor and underclassed citizens... all done in the name of compassoin.. and votes. Liberals have weakened large segments of society by creating a class of people totally dependent on government aid and assistance. I know from personal experience by working in these neighborhoods. Liberals have crippled these people because their sole existance is from one government check to another. Liberalism is working towards the homogenization of our children. What's up with no scores in sports games? A pure liberal idea. Where is the drive for competition and excellence anymore? Even you liberals are mediocre in your thought process but man do you think you have all the answers... but you don't. You've taken over the education departments spreading your socialist ideas among the youth so the next generatoin will be more compliant with your progressive thought... I see it happening right in front of my eyes so there's no links available... I know I could find plenty but what's the sense... you would use Alinsky's rule number 6 on me again...

Kirk:

The information in the links I provided was to illustrate the fact that growth actually declined at the end of the Bush watch. Those are not misleading statistics. They are factual in every respect. The graphs are clearly labeled and reflect exactly the GDP at the time in question.

Your beef turns on growth in previous years. However, that growth turned almost exclusively on the incredible expansion of the housing bubble. That was NOT real growth as we now clearly see. That was a run-up in PRICE - not in VALUE. That's the key to this whole issue. It is instructive to note that Bank of America is probably going to have to go into the capital markets because they are still loaded with overvalued "assets", and they aren't alone. (Funny how that price/value thing has such big, nasty teeth.) The growth on the Bush watch was purely illusory and trillions of dollars were extracted from the economy.

I note you quibble over the word "fraud" when it comes to derivatives. That may or may not be the reason these Wall Street thieves aren't facing prosecution. However, there is no doubt - none, zero, zip, zilch, nada - that they did not exercise due diligence as they snagged customers who had no business taking out loans. That's a fact, and if you work anywhere near that industry - YOU KNOW IT! Were it not for the piss-poor management of Fannie and Freddie, this crash might not have happened.

I don't know how many times I have to point this out. This isn't a "George Bush did it" or a "Barack Obama did it" scenario. This crash was coming for some time, and the bubble expanded for as long as it did because so many people were making money. We will be dealing with the reverberations of this crash for a long time. The idiots who think Obama could have turned this around overnight are so far beyond stupid, there isn't a word that describes their mental capabilities accurately.

That said, I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and watch as Republicans try to put in another administration that thinks a regulation-free environment is a winner. Again.......that's beyond stupid.

Houston! Wrote: “I know what "they say" about opinions. The same could be said about you.”

Opinions are like arseholes; everyone one has one. That’s why facts are so important, and why progressives prefer to listen to experts—economists, analysts, policy experts, etc. If FOX Noise/Hate Radio and the right-wing weren’t so anti-science and education, they too would see the value in those who invest a lifetime to a specific area of study. NOT Limbaugh, Glen Beck, and the many others with NO merit or credentials.

Dont_carry_it_all wrote: “To turn ones back on a problem does not make the problem go away, I would argue it prolongs the problem. This is a problem that requires something from everyone.”

The “Invisible Hand” is at the basis of such superstitious thinking, unfortunately. If the Cantor/Tebagger elements in our nation had their way, it would be similar to letting Yellowstone burn, and then realizing, sh!t, we shouldn’t have let it burn.

Newly-Independent wrote: “And I believe it was Roy (a known liar) who claimed that the Tea Party "did not" hold the country hostage, destroy our credit rating, and wreck the economy. Yet they, themselves, admitted that their goal was to cause chaos in the market... and they achieved just that. So they are not responsible, even though they admitted to it? It's a good thing I bet against the Tea Party in the market, I saved myself from huge losses.”

The goal to cause chaos in the market, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, Al Qaeda.

Kirk-2957282 – Really, seriously,” ram their legislation through” You need to get your history straight and review the Bush tax cuts passed with reconciliation versus health insurance reform that was passed with a filibuster-proof super majority because so many Republican amendments were added to water down the legislation to the point of being only better than having nothing. And then there was Gov. Scott Walker, and well we know how that has evolved…

Tort reform is a drop-in-the-bucket populist joke along with ear marks and gas tax holidays, etc. The president/Dems not only have agreed to many of such things, but have come out ahead of the GOP/TP on issues such as dismantling Freddie and Fannie. FYI, I'm only responding this one time, I won't waste my BTUs with you--been there done that.

The real problem is you and your fellow conservatives need to turn off FOX Noise/Hate Radio and try opening your mind to the large array of ideas out there. It’s a shame to waste a brain.

Nah Joey, nobody on this board that has read my posts over time thinks I'm a Racist or a KKK type of person. Joey that comment had nothing to do with race it was about you acting like a child most of the time, demeaning the United States (and yourself) by calling the elected president (your president) Barry all the time. I gave you a compliment on your argument of how wealthy people take advantage of loopholes in the tax law because they can, and how it is considered to be smart business instead of unpatriotic for them to do so. You were advocating stricter more effective tax laws for people like Buffet weren't you Joey?

american,

The same can be said for both sides... both skew their numbers to support their own statistics. I have just noticed that the right generally skews them to the extreme (on Fox, that is).

Again, you are another person, just like JH, who changes who you blame depending on your position. You blame Obama, but when it is pointed out that Bush spent more, you blame Congress. Then when it is pointed out that the GOP has controlled the House for almost a year, you go back to blaming Obama... then Congress... then Obama... never taking responsibility for the failures of your own party.

Furthermore, you hold up policies from the opposition that have not worked, while ignoring the policies of your own party that have not worked.

If you want to have an actual debate, you have to be fair for both sides. Instead, you are just regurgitating the same lies you heard on Fox News.

If you blame the President, you must accept the actions of previous administrations. If you blame Congress, you must accept the fact that the current GOP controlled House is the most worthless House in all of history.

When you take off your rose colored glasses and realize that your party is not perfect... it does not walk on water and heals lepers... you will then be able to have a real debate. Until that time, it is pointless to discuss anything with you.

Gharm and Logic...

...six months...spin it anyway you like of it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy...it doesn't change the facts.

Mickey.....

6 months of nothing getting done. Spin THAT any way you'd like to. Considering how little time it takes to draft and vote on bills (even the debt ceiling thing only went on for like 3 months), the Democrats literally sat on their thumbs and did nothing.

the week is starting of hostile! I see the same posters with the same hate message. Must not have been a good weekend.

I hope the President can make a positive impact on the job market, but it may be too little, too late. It is feeling a lot like the last election, so much hatefor the current administration. Many posters are upset about the 2010 elect not making a difference yet, and forget what the Dem did the first 2 years with a Dem House, Dem Senate and a Dem President. Americans are not feeling good, they are mad and are looking for change/hope they can believe in. It was a great tag line, but it has not worked out and the Dems are sounding too much like the Republicans 3 yrs ago- it all about blaming the other party. Based on the posting above, their base is singing in tune to their message.

A lot can happen in 14 months, until then keep you spirits up and the hate down! Have a great week!

You were advocating stricter more effective tax laws for people like Buffet weren't you Joey?

__________________________________________

No, Grumpy. I was pointing out the obvious hypocrisy of St. Warren of the Left and the stupidity all the lefty liberals (including Barry) that are foolish enough to believe and tout one of the greatest tax policy con men of this century. St. Warren has proven PT's old addage that "There's a sucker born every minute." to which I would add for St. Warren "and they are dumb enough to think I really believe in paying more taxes, while I'm whistling my way to the bank with all my tax loophole profits."

Mickey, NY

Democrats had control of the House and Senate for four years leading up to the election in 2010, and Obama has been President for almost three years and you cry about whether or not you had a supermajority or not for 6 months? The fact is you guys have been in charge and writing the bills since before the economy crashed yet all you do is blame, blame, blame, excuse, after excuse, after excuse. Americans are looking for answers and leaders, and Obama's only idea is to do another stimulus package after the total failure of his last one. Spin all you want - dems record has been pathetic, and you can't even man up and take any reponsibility after all the power given to you by the people. You've run out of new ideas and out of spin.

Damn staight PsychoDoc! Your are one smart, practical, man, I wanna be in your crew.

You know he is right folks. The party of "don't just be a lazy ass just waiting around for somebody else to take care of you (like wealthy job creators) get off your butt and get to work, pull yourself up from your own bootstraps" has themselves given up. They have resigned themselves to the fact that it will not be possible in the future for Americans to have medicare or Social Security, and that the only solution to unemployment is to wait for some wealthy benefactors to just give their money away for no reason at all by hiring the unemployed (what as a form of welfare or charity) even though there is no increase in demand for goods or services to justify the hiring. Republican Politicians have given up on Americans who want to go to work to earn their own living helping their boss and other Americans to earn their living in the process. Now I realize how a quitter like Sarah Palin can still be so popular with republicans.

Warren Buffet like many other super rich talk about more taxes but hire teams of accountants to limit their tax liability. This is what we like to call hypocrisy. Warren Buffet can write a check right now and send it to Uncle Sam and they would gladly accept, and that goes for all the rich liberals in Hollywood, and D.C. They talk about paying more and fair shares but then dodge their own taxes, (Charlie Rangel, Timothy Gietner, Tom Daschle, John Kerry). Like I said before put your money where your mouth is and start sending in your checks libs, I will be waiting to hear the news on how much money is pouring in. Lead by example instead of force.

"Ash Plissken

Ridgelon: someone who doesn't understand that government workers spend their money the same way everybody else does has no business lecturing other people on "economics 101".

The fact is, the economy came close to collapsing, but because of the stimulus, it did not. The stimulus that passed was too small to do any more than that. Blaming Obama for the stagnation now is expecting too much to be done with too little"

Ash are you really that naive or are you just one of the paid trolls from the dems on this site? It's not w that they spend their money it's where they money came from. Just where do you think these people's income comes from? Taxes. So even though these people spend their money there is no economic net gain only stagnation at best because their income came from confiscated wealth from private citizens. When a private citizen earns a dollar it generates a positive net gain for the economy. Taxes do not stimulate an economy, they hinder it. There is nothing the government can do to stimulate an economy, since the government does not generate income. Only people and businesses can generate income, the government does not sell anything, they confiscate other peoples money to provide for our defense and well being. With the exception of taking our taxes and placing them in a high yield saving account, there is no way for any government to generate wealth, they can only take it from business and private citizens.

The fact is that the economy did not come close to collapsing, that is just what you were told. Had Obama done nothing and let the failed businesses and banks fail our economy would have recovered on its own, what they did was just prolong the situation. Cash for clunkers as an example cost the tax payers and did nothing but hurt the economy, all the used cars were destroyed instead of being resold which actually caused some dealerships to close. Nothing Obama has done has grown the economy, the only growth is what it would have naturally done with out his interference.

Forrest Gump and PschoDoc,

You say teh Republicans and Tpartiers don't have any ideas but just ay no to everything and I have to ask what rock you leave under. Paul Ryan a republican submitted a budget plan, and so has John Bohneir, you may not like it but at least they submitted a plan. Obama and the democrats have not passed or even submitted a budget in over two years. How can we just be saying no to something that has never even been written? Or maybe this is one of those "we have to pass the bill before we get to see what's in it" type things. We have ideas, like I said if your interested lets just pass the Paul Ryan plan now and see what happens, or are you just going to say no to everything we propose? It's bad when you try feeding your dribble to those who don't know any better but you guys actually seem to believe such nonsense.

Ridgelon: "It's not w that they spend their money it's where they money came from. Just where do you think these people's income comes from? Taxes. So even though these people spend their money there is no economic net gain only stagnation at best because their income came from confiscated wealth from private citizens."

Wrong again. If the taxes come from the unspent wealth of the rich (where it has no positive effect on the economy) and go to a working-class family who will actually spend the money back into the economy (thereby increasing demand for consumer goods and services), that is a net positive.

I did make a mistake earlier in conflating the bailouts with the stimulus though, so I apologize for that.

Logic: just because someone advocates closing loopholes or raising taxes or increasing rates does not mean they don't follow the law as it is. You really don't get it. The Republican party is not out to improve your situation. Unless you earn well in excess of $250,000 each year, voting for Republicans will not help you. And since more people earn less than $100,000 than earn more than $100,000, there is no logical reason to vote for Republicans.

There is nothing that they are advocating which will help you, not in any way. The tax rates on those earning less than $100,000 will not be reduced. If you are unemployed, they won't be passing any stimulous bill, not now, not if they get the whitehouse, not ever. The only help you will get from a Republican politician is a promise. They won't even keep that.

I asked this question this morning and one person answered with some liberal gibberish but why does the media and most politicians consider a jobs bill a spending bill??? If we would just level the playing field for companies to compete, the private sector would create the jobs. What if we put a 30-35% import tax on items that were not manufactured here? You would have every foreign company building a plant here and putting our people to work. You would have domestic companies that outsourced decide to come back. We would have so many jobs that illegal immigration would not even be on the radar. Social security would have more money than they would know what to do with. We need to get some creative thinking going instead of all the usual rhetoric. Just a thought.

True Patriot -- Agree on tort reforms, gas tax holidays and earmarks (recently renamed!) being an insignificant remedy to much larger issues, such as the economy, debts and deficits. Have at it I say but hurry back because the problems will still exist and we need permanent long term goal oriented solutions to fix what really ails this economy and Country. Give no one an excuse. Anybody care to step up with intelligent solutions? We need all hands on deck now.

Doing nothing is not an option in my book. But then again its just my opinion. : )

dirp101

They advocate things they do not follow, they are not breaking the law because the law is written to where they don't have to pay more, but they can if they think they are being under billed. Why not advocate for more and pay more to prove it will not hurt. And you are the one who doesn't seem to get it, I'm not looking for the Republican party to improve my situation, I'm not looking for the Democrats to improve my situation, I want the government to stop trying to control my life and stop trying to "fix" things. I don't want them to raise the taxes on my rich employeer and make them move my job overseas, I don't want them to raise taxes on Corporations who will then just raise the price of their products directly effecting me who then has to pay the extra cost when I buy that product, I don't want them feeding me some B.S. about if they could raise taxes on the rich everything will be all right when everyone knows it would raise at best 400 billion dollars while we are running 1 trillion dollar deficits. You seem to think we should vote for those who will take from others and give to us because they have more then we do, and I think that has been tried and before Communism, Socialism, Marxism, and it never works. I want Democrats, and Republicans to stop trying to do everything, it just keeps making things worse.

Gharm:

[6 months of nothing getting done]

Those six months were not consecutive, but over a period of two times...so you're saying that Washington is THAT efficient? And here I thought you didn't give the Obama Administration any credit...

...as I said, spin it anyway that makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the facts.

and Logic:

[Democrats had control of the House and Senate for four years leading up to the election in 2010, and Obama has been President for almost three years and you cry about whether or not you had a supermajority or not for 6 months?]

Hey, YOU unknowingly brought up the "super-majority" tidbit, not me, by stating "YOU HAVE HAD CONTROL FOR YEARS". Simply put, it just doesn't work that way. I can't make it any clearer.

[The fact is you guys...]

You guys? You have no clue as to which "guys" I am. Just because I'm not following some party purity pledge, or toeing a party line, gives you no basis to make a statement like this. You know nothing about me, nor about my voting habits. The posts were about super-majorities and overall control.

[Spin all you want - dems record has been pathetic, and you can't even man up and take any reponsibility after all the power given to you by the people. You've run out of new ideas and out of spin.]

The "dems record has been pathetic"? Really...you might want to check those records. You might be surprised of the facts.

As far as your "man[ning] up" comment, what has that got to do with your statement that "YOU (democrats) HAVE HAD CONTROL FOR YEARS"? That statement is a cop-out and you know it. If the facts bother you so much, then be my guest and ignore them...but do so at your own peril.

I really hopes this helps you understand things a bit better.

Oh, and good luck...you're going to need it...

@Robert: the problem is the so called "Fair Trade" treaties. Since treaties are given equivalence to the Constitution under the Constitution, simply passing a law to increase import taxes will not do. In many cases, Congress is prohibited, by those same treaties from imposing import taxes, duties, fees, etc. Companies which produce in countries which are not subject to these laws get around them by importing into a "fair trade" country, doing minimal work (putting in the lable) and then importing under the prefered nation status.

Grover Norquist and the Tea Publicans would have a heart attack if someone suggested "raising "taxes".

Also, Walmart shoppers would freak if the paper thin T-shirts started to cost $7.00 instead of $5.00.

HA HA HA, here it is folks, the latest from the Left....

Alan, NJ

quote (And how about we actually put money in the hands of the poor and middle class, so that they can increase consumer spending and promote job growth that way?)

Alan....You mean like Bush did with his stimulus checks?

Hee hee...the Left accusing Bush of giveaways??!!!! Shovel Ready 250billion+ / Ca$h for Clunker$ 3billion+ on and on. They're gettin desparate folks!

David, I agree with everything you said. I am not going to defend the bankers, congress etc as they were all at fault. The problem isnt more regulation its enforcement of existing regs and real oversight especially with rating agencies. Just like sarbanes oxley well intended law that did nothing to stop the type of fraud it was intended to do but just created layers of more cost and bureaucracy. I agree its not a presidential issue as both parties play the game and ignore the issues of their patrons. lawyers and unions overstep their bounds all the time for the democrats and there is no willingness to oversee or regulate them more no different than the GOP does with corporations. But with real enforcement and oversight over abuse in all corners regardless of who is lobbying various members of a political party. I think you understand it more than laying it at the feet of one president or candidate or political party.

True Patriot--you made my point. It goes on in both parties. Neither side wants to compromise but you lay all the blame on one party. I realize they both do it because of hardcore partisan beliefs when most of us are in the middle.

Kirk:

A couple quick thoughts. First, you can't gut the regulating departments and expect decent regulation. Secondly, and this is so insidious it infuriates me. As fast as one type of derivative is banned, another slightly altered variety takes its place. It's every bit as egregious, but legal. The solution to that is as terrible as the problem that is to be remedied.

That would be to simply outlaw all derivatives, but that's throwing the baby out with the bath water. It's like the ham-handed approach the feds adopted with drugs. Back in the 60's LSD was legal. Of course, it was fun, so it had to be outlawed. Along came STP. That had to be outlawed and so it went until the solution was - "Hey, let's just make 'em all illegal." Brilliant. Let's make 'em all Schedule 1 drugs. That of course means no research and who knows how many "good" drugs have never made it to the public?

Governing is not an easy job. I once thought it would be cool to be President. I wouldn't take that job on a bet, and I don't even have the handicap of being brown.

Kirk and David -- So true....there is no one up when it comes to regulations. My preference would be to simplify regulations with broad strokes and leave the most egregious violators in the hands of the courts or in the hands of arbitrators (ha ha)... ; ) Have a great night guys.

Brianb, you just declared that all liberals have closed minds and think that they are 100% correct all the time, by declaring that they are all 100% wrong, and have never gotten anything right. Presto! Changeo! Tada!

John A.-400474 -- #1.133 -- You are correct, Obama did sign a Small Business Jobs bill last September. I thought this one died in the Senate along with a lot of other stuff. I missed it completely. Thanks for the update and the good news.

At this point, I am not opposed to more tax cuts - as long as they are tied to employment levels. The blank checks handed out by the 'loyal' opposition have obviously been political pay backs - not intended to do anything for the Main Street economy.

@PsychoDoc Oops! I meant no offence and I hope I didn't miss something that should have obviously indicated that you are a woman. My heart surgeon is a woman, and my patent attorney is a women (this lady has a law degree and a mechanical engineering degree), I have no problem whatsoever working with or following the advice an educated, smart, honest woman, I've spent a fortune with a few, and I have been married to one all my life. I can handle it, count me in.

Of course it is a noble cause. What the heck are those kids losing their lives for in Afghanistan and Iraq, what the heck are they protecting if we can't do better than this for the young and old of this nation by making sure the people in the middle who they depend on have a decent income. Shame on us if we don't try to do something more and different than tax cuts and eliminations.

"First the $850 Billion included 50% for tax cuts." - US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Another lie.

Ash,, Obama says a lot of things......that never happen.

liberalism is what ails this country. It's the elite, arrogant liberals that believe they are 100% correct and anyone that doesn't subscribe to their line of thinking is a useless, empty-headed blowhard.

Another tactic from the Rovian playbook - accuse your opponent of what you in fact are doing. ALEC had their scheduled meeting the first week of August, giving Republican politicians the list of legislation the REAL wealthy elites demand from them.

IR:

You nailed it. We all said the "Hostage" tactic was going to be used over and over again for political gain by the "Obstructionist's". Cantor is proof of this once again. "Young Guns" right, just like "Billy the Kid" a murdering bully and thief.

This is going to get worse. The "Impotent Committee" meets for the first time today. Maybe we will see what the agenda is going to me and if the TP/GOP is listening to the American People or not. With a 12% approval rating one would think they would at least appear to be listening.

Time will tell and soon.

Navy, I like the lead article term of "outsourcing" duties of the "superCongress committee". That's what our elected officals offers when in a "crisis" way of governing.

I hope every one who runs for a Senate seat will be in favor of ending the "fillibuster rule" and the silly super majroity votes. Debate on the floor for 24 hours then vote. Simple majority. Move on.

Balanced budget admemdments are another gimmick for Congress to hide behind. Just do you job for which you were elected.

Let's see, governor Scot from Florida, accepted FEMA money to help fund fires in Florida, but refused money from the health care plan to help uninsured people in Florida, then returned $$billions$$$ in grants to help build a high speed rail in Florida, (JOBS, JOBS). Anything plans that the DEM and Obama said would help America, GOP TEA party refuse to accept, (cost to much and will add to the deficit), but accepts FEMA money. Now we need a pay as you go disater fund, and where PRAY tell will this money come from? More deficit spending.

good point ,

Derf-1791763

You reminded me of all the pork the new 2010 House Republicans suddenly developed a taste for when it became their chance to raid the federal kitty for projects at home. Republicans are such hypocrites.

NorthStar:

Right on. I agree.

Derf,

returned $$billions$$$ in grants to help build a high speed rail in Florida

Do you suppose that since the voters already voted down high-speed rail because of the on-going costs of maintenance, that it was consistent with their wishes? If we had wanted high-speed rail in Florida, we would have voted to continue with the project when it was on the ballot. The fact that the Federal government thinks we should commit to paying higher taxes for something we don't want is exactly the reason for the absurd deficits we have.

Amy - why don't you provide a list of the pork projects the republicans have taken money for. How about a contrasting list of democrat pork projects... Let's learn to be objective before being accusatory. You can point your finger all day long but without examining the facts, it only makes you look silly.

Derf - The high speed rail project in Florida was a waste of money. What jobs are you talking about? The several hundred construction workers and engineers that would be hired to do the work... at what, 15 Billion dollars for a train that hardly anyone would use? You don't understand the mindset of the Floridians... they don't want rail, they want their cars. I've lived there for 24 years... Your example is stupid.

And some officials were bitterly critical of Scott for pulling the plug even before bids had gone out to build the 84-mile system. Eight consortia of companies from 11 countries had indicated they would be willing to put up some or all of the state's $280 million share of the project, while the bid terms would have required them to absorb cost overruns and any operating losses for 20 years...............................http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-02-16/news/os-scott-rejects-rail-money-20110216_1_rick-scott-high-speed-rail-high-speed-train

Florida Democrats said Friday that the state's Gov. Rick Scott (R) rejected $2.4 billion in federal money for a high-speed rail project in the state solely because President Obama supported it.

Scott's administration announced Friday it was allowing a different proposed commuter rail plan in Orlando to proceed, months after Scott argued that the proposed high-speed railway between Tampa and Orlando was not a sound investment for taxpayers because it would not generate enough revenue to be sustainable.

Critics had made similar arguments against the proposed Orlando train, SunRail, but Scott did not put the brakes on that one.

That showed Scott "killed high-speed rail and the 71,000 job-years the project would have created as a partisan ploy to attack the president," Florida Democratic Party Executive Director Scott Arceneaux said in a statement. ......................http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/railroads/169427-fla-dems-rick-scott-approved-one-railway-and-not-the-other-to-swipe-at-obama

Independent - What about the voters shooting it down is hard to understand? They didn't want it. I voted no on it. It lost by an overwelming majority of no votes. Is it your opinion that the government should force things down the voters throats when they don't want it?

I don't care how many officials were critical of Scott. The will of the people won out. Are you of the opinion that officials should dictate to the people what the officials want? Maybe you should assess your belief system before trying to convince those of us that voted no on a project that wasn't wanted.

Independent - Do you know what SunRail is? Do you know how it's structured? It uses existing rail lines with some spurs. SunRail is already in existance in other parts of the state. It runs between West Palm Beach and Miami and it is used for communters living in both cities. It is profitable.

Why do you insist on getting your nose all bent out of shape over a topic that you know nothing about except for reading articles on? Are you a Florida resident?

TALLAHASSEE -- Booed at a ballpark. Protested at a parade. Mocked on fake dollar bills.

Rick Scott doesn’t just seem more disliked — he is, in fact, growing increasingly unpopular, according to the latest Quinnipiac University survey of 1,499 registered Florida voters.

The poll found that 48 percent disapproved of how Scott is doing — more than double the level measured in a February poll.

Only 35 percent gave the Republican newcomer a favorable rating, exactly what it was more than a month ago.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/06/2153239/pollster-gov-rick-scott-is-a-4.html#ixzz1WWbCSGlv

Maybe if your Gov. Scott learned to not cut off his nose to spite his face folks would think better of him

Rick Scott doesn’t just seem more disliked — he is, in fact, growing increasingly unpopular, according to the latest Quinnipiac University survey of 1,499 registered Florida voters.

The poll found that 48 percent disapproved of how Scott is doing — more than double the level measured in a February poll.

Maybe if your Gov. Scott learned to not cut off his nose to spite his face folks would think better of him

I take you think the same way about President Obama. The latest Gallop figures are 55% disapproval and 38% approval. Actually the President's figures are a bit worse.

BTW this is from their current rolling poll.

Independent - is that your response to your inability to understand what the voters wanted concerning high speed rail? Not many people do like Scott. He has fallen in the ratings and will probably not win re-election. He's capitulated with the democrats and is proven to be a RINO. This is why Floridian's don't like him. They thought they elected a conservative as a governor. He is proving to be far from conservative. That should clear up any misconceptions you may have about Scott.

As far as I'm concerned, I can't wait for him to leave office. I can't stand anyone that was elected under one premise and when they win, their true colors shine through. So if you want to attack Scott, by my guest. Just don't misrepresent high speed rail as something Floridians wanted and Scott shot down. We didn't want it.

Brian B:

Playbook Tactics #2, #3, #4, #10

You people are cracking me up with all this "playbook" BS. Anytime anyone challenges you dimwits on anything you start with the "playbook! Page 23, section 4, paragraph 5!" What a buncha ninnies.

You libs have a "playbook" of your own. 1) Anybody who criticizes Obama is a racist or a nazi. Shout it loud and often. 2) All conservatives are greedy and had money handed to them. None of them worked. FR's own "Nashville Fan" had a variation on that one the other day. She said that all white people who have graduated from high school, acted responsibly and have good jobs , have had all these things handed down to them from their ancestors. What a moron.

3)All poor people got that way because rich people made them that way. Ronald Reagan once said; "there are some people in this country who can't look at a fat man and a skinny man standing side by side without thinking that the fat man got that way at the expense of the skinny man." He was right. He's describing you lefty loons.

Gee Felden, if whatever your tactics indicate make you happy... by all means declare it. To me, they are just numbers...

It's terrific and gives them a way to feel relevant Damage.

It's like to fielden these tactics are both magic and brand new.

I assume fielden has no concept of history. He has obviously never read the Prince, or studied any of the great leaders through out history. Yep it all started with Rove.

I also assume fielden is like a grocery bagger. He cannot be that ignorant and hold a job as say a CEO, accountant, attorney, doctor, or hell, even a middle manager.

You know any job that requires anaylitical skills.

Note that fielden can only say which tacits he thinks apply, not why, how, or whether alternative explanatins exist. Again, critical thinking is too hard for some.

Beverly in Chicago

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Wow I was thinking tat same thing. Where is the jobs plan? Really its a JOB-LESS Plan

It's all about cutting taxes on wealthy individuals and corporations—is just an amplified version of the same tax policies that helped get us into our current mess.

Great post Navy. Hopefully, the dimwits will look at the graphs and realize numbers don't LIE!

Um....you do know that NOBODY is talking about lowering taxes for wealthy individuals, right?

Gotta love the liberal spin................

As for Scott's poll numbers - I think we might want to give him a little more than 8 months in office. He has implemented policies that will take time to have an effect. If they are successful, I imagine his poll numbers will improve. If not, he will be a one term Governor.

Um....you do know that nobody is talking about raising taxes on the wealthy either. Especially the republicans for the rich tea party.

Gott love the republican spin..................................................................

IR

"Florida Democratic Party Executive Director Scott Arceneaux said in a statement."

Thats the key statement!

Americans First-3238795

Um....you do know that nobody is talking about raising taxes on the wealthy either. Especially the republicans for the rich tea party.

Gott love the republican spin..................................................................

Where's the "spin"? I'm not the one making flat out lies.

If you want to see or listen to spin, just hang in there, Obama speech on the economy and jobs, is rumored to happen "soon" no firm date just yet, according to his Press secretary.

One thing for sure, the speech will be short on details and specifics, but long on blame and excuses.

Brian which is why I love gov. Snyder in Michigan. I also have a home in Port Richie and am a registered voter in Florida. My wive votes here in Michigan and I fly down to Florida to vote. I how ever do like Marco Rubio and would love to see him on any ticket. I think a Cristie/Rubio ticket would be great!

Dont you love the progressives citing the approval ratings for Walker or Scott which are in the high 40s but down from the election after a few months but somehow have no issue or dont see any problems with Obamas being down over 20 points to 38% after 3 years in office?

Kirk -- I responded to you in the collapsed section.

It isn't so much going big or small, rather it's exposing the GOP/TP for what they are -- Obstructionist arseholes. The majority of Americans have seen the olive branches and concessions made by the Dems being rejected time and again by Republicans. The majority of Americans also watched the debt debacle and know fully well it was Cantor and the Teabagger minority who actually wanted to default and used this to hold the nation's good faith and credit hostage.

What the president will now do is present a plan that includes many Republican ideas, which are popular, and even some pork in Republican districts he knows secretly that they want. And he, along with the Dems, and hopefully mainstream media will expose the far-right rat bastards for who they really are--finally circumventing the FOX Noise/Hate Radio filter.

Cantor/Teabaggers and their ilk must be placed between a rock and a hard spot -- Either say NO yet again to popular ideas for job creation and improving the economy and losing seats in 2012, or say yes and try to take some credit for any improvements before the 2012 election (which will be hard to do since it will be the president's proposal backed by the Dems).

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" B-bye you friggin' right-wing Haters.

IR - please do try to get a national- catastrophy fund created...

This will create a greater demand for a national-catastrophe fund to socialize losses. The idea has been opposed by fiscal conservatives and free-market advocates.

Do you really expect the electorate to agree to such a plan? Rather flies in the face of political and social reality when SS, medicare and medicaid are underfunded and in many respects inefficient. Now you think that a national catastrophy fund is the ticket?

Tell us, is this to be funded by the top 2% giving just a little more? Why not just do away with all private insurers and let the government cover all losses of any type? I am sure that with the efficiencies and oversite practiced by government officials this will work out really well, bet Greece would even use it as a model for offerring more than that what can be delivered.

What's your point...

These international companies are unregulated. When they take big losses, like they will this weekend, they jack up their rates to recoup their losses.

Do you expect them to say that they won't raise rates to cover losses and risks? Ever stop to consider that if they run out of cash to cover losses they are no more than a giant ponzi scheme and everyone insured will be holding the bag. To think that you believe that government can do better is disingenuous as history shows otherwise.

Regardless, rate increases only provides an opportunity for competition to step in and offer lower premiums. think a government entity would allow such competion?

I see redwig has nothing new to say yet again! But she is keeping her streak of posting first alive! Woohoo!!! lmao!

SteveH USA

I see redwig has nothing new to say yet again! But she is keeping her streak of posting first alive! Woohoo!!! lmao!

And this is your contribution?? You do know what "hypocrisy" is do you not????

And this is your contribution?? You do know what "hypocrisy" is do you not????

Fascinating isn't it Navy?

Ah - leave em alone, they pissed because I won't grant them membership to the Feisty Redhead Fan Club!

I do however, appreciate their continued contributions that point out precisely their hypocrisy problem! lol

SteveH -

You want to be first?

All you have to do is send 19.95 to the DDI, then spend the next 23 1/2 hours trying to come with something cogent and pertinent to say.

If that's beyond your capabilities, we'll understand.

That's what the Republicans want. They want someone to challenge the President in his own party. That's why you hear the idiots calling for Hillary, because they know that they can't beat him.

Rhetoric and sound bites is what we get from the GOPTP. Where are the jobs they promised in 2010? They've made a lot of noise but have passed zero job bills.

Jody:

They do not have a jobs bill. Just watch what they propose next week. It will be more smoke and mirrors unless they for some reason, which by the way would not be in their best interest, decide to listen to the American People.

I think we are going to see more "Hostage" taking and "Obstructionism". There will be no compormises and the fail safes will kick in and S&P will may us down another notch in the Credit Ratings. This, if it appens, will be our death call.

The headlines will read: "The TP/GOP - The Death of a Nation"

I did see the White House news briefing this morning and Hillary was mentioned! The new White House spokesman... what' his name? New glasses but still looks like a nerd.... anyway he was asked repeatedly by a reporter on if he thought Hillary would run.... nerd never answered the question but suggested someone ask Hillary herself! I voted for obama in 2008, won't make that mistake again.... but would jump on Hillary if given a chance (figuratively speaking)!

I find it particularly amusing that the GOP/TP, having been busy dismantling women's rights for the past year, are trying to convince us that they would support Hillary.

they pissed because I won't grant them membership to the Feisty Redhead Fan Club!

yechhh! The thought of that made me vomit in my mouth!

Ah - leave em alone, they pissed because I won't grant them membership to the Feisty Redhead Fan Club!

lol.... redwig, tell me does "membership" still require a frontal lobotomy and willingness to start collecting food stamps? No matter, not interested in becoming an intellectual sloth!

It would be GREAT to see Hilary run. Many Dems conveniently forget how Hilary and Bill were made out to be horrible, racist Klan memebers in 2008, simply for having the nerve to stand in the way of Obama's rightful stroll to the White House. All that would come up again. It would be great. The Dems CANNOT win without the Black vote. If Hilary came in and pushed Obama out, Black people would stay home on election day. Maybe even riot before that. It would be chaos for the Dems and good for the nation.

Damage another real American as he dreams of more damage as if the republicans have not done enough.

The republicans have been wishing for months that the Democrats would start in-fighting to match the take-over of the right by the tea people who if coming from space would be more in tune as to what the people want.

80% let me repeat 80% have stated we should raise taxes on the rich.

Republican plan, lets kill social security and medicare so we can give more tax breaks to the rich.

Republicans are not running against President Obama, they are running against the American people and republicans want the people to fail.

I am glad all the republicans on this board are rich. As smart as you all claim to be, surely you must be rich as the republican have been proving by their actions that they will defend the rich and their donations over middle class Americans and whats best for America any day of the week.

Well it's not only blacks who voted for Mr Obama, but a majority of whites, and hispanics also added to that equation.

Actually if you remember back just one year ago, Mr Obama was coming back from a Vacation in Martha Vineyard and promising a new and super-fantastic jobs bill. "somethings just like the other thing" see if you can figure it out!

Now jollyoldsoul1, give Obama a break, he corrected himself just the other day. He said he never promised "hope" and "change" right away.........just down the road.....

I have an ideal what that "change" refers to and it is not what we need now or down the road.....

BrainDamaged123:

[The Dems CANNOT win without the Black vote. If Hilary came in and pushed Obama out, Black people would stay home on election day. Maybe even riot before that. It would be chaos for the Dems and good for the nation.]

So, according to your logic, blacks staying home on election day, or "maybe even riot before that", is a good thing for this nation?

...really...REALLY...?

You want to keep blacks home on election day (gotsa gets back to thems 'ole Jim Crow laws, right Massa?), and you think they will riot (because thats "what blacks do", right?)

If there was ever a post of yours that was suspected of being bigoted, this one removes ALL doubt...you might want to think about what you post before you put your foot in your mouth...

...but thanks for clarifying your position for everyone to see...

Eva Peron: when a small minority within a party begins to operate as if it is in control, and the overwhelming majority listens, you have an out of control situation like is currently present in the Republican Party. The Tea Party represents, maybe, 20% of those who are also Republicans.

However, the Tea Party stands on no new taxes, no compromises, CUT, CUT, CUT, kill grandma, have taken over the Republican party. That is why people say TeaPublicans. The Tea Party flea is causing the conservative tail to wag the Republican Party dog. That is the problem with the Republican Party. Until they have a good dip, the fleas will continue to bite and infect the nation.

LOL keep up the "kill grandma" fearmongering rhetoric. It's better then Comedy Central.

What constitutes "killing grandma"? Is it reforming Medicaid and SS? As opposed to the Democrat plan, where Grandma still dies, but it just takes 13 years....less if she's just disabled and not really retired as of yet. LOL No, you're right. We should just bury our heads in the sand when it comes to Medicare and SS. Everything will work itself out juuuuust fine. Hahahahaha.

In the collapsed section above...

Houston! Wrote: “I know what "they say" about opinions. The same could be said about you.”

Opinions are like arseholes; everyone one has one. That’s why facts are so important, and why progressives prefer to listen to experts—economists, analysts, policy experts, etc. If FOX Noise/Hate Radio and the right-wing weren’t so anti-science and education, they too would see the value in those who invest a lifetime to a specific area of study. NOT Limbaugh, Glen Beck, and the many others with NO merit or credentials.

Dont_carry_it_all wrote: “To turn ones back on a problem does not make the problem go away, I would argue it prolongs the problem. This is a problem that requires something from everyone.”

The “Invisible Hand” is at the basis of such superstitious thinking, unfortunately. If the Cantor/Tebagger elements in our nation had their way, it would be similar to letting Yellowstone burn, and then realizing, sh!t, we shouldn’t have let it burn.

Newly-Independent wrote: “And I believe it was Roy (a known liar) who claimed that the Tea Party "did not" hold the country hostage, destroy our credit rating, and wreck the economy. Yet they, themselves, admitted that their goal was to cause chaos in the market... and they achieved just that. So they are not responsible, even though they admitted to it? It's a good thing I bet against the Tea Party in the market, I saved myself from huge losses.”

"The goal to cause chaos in the market," where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, Al Qaeda.

Eva and Bill.... I understand obama's uncle is a charter member of the 'feisty fanclub', doesn't that bring a tear to your eyes?

Dirp101 - pay now or pay latter. As for the tea parry throwing granny under the bus, so to speak, what did you think obamas plan for cutting another $600 billion from medicare would do?You remember don't you when he offered up his grand scheme last month before the debt ceiling vote?

Garhms & american: SS & Medicare have problems, but destroying them won't resolve them. The only solutions coming from the TeaPublicans have been to cut, cut, cut. Rick Perry has called them unconstitutional and ponzi schemes. Actually, the issue with them has been the under funding. Part D added a major benefit, with no added taxes or premium increase.

President Obama proposed a cut to the amounts paid to doctors & hospitals. The amounts that Medicare beneficiaries receive as benefits would not be cut, rather the amounts paid out would be limited. TeaPublicans love supply side economics, unless it is applied to the payments they receive. And yes, this would directly affect MS. Bachman, whose husband receives hundreds of thousands in Medicare payments.

The plans proposed on the TeaPublican side do not affect the supply side (i.e. the doctors, hospitals, and medical providers) rather they affect the demand side, i.e. the benefitciaries. Like everything else the Republican party is doing, they thing making cuts to the poor and elderly are a good thing. What will they do when their goal of wiping out the middle class and killing the poor is accomplished ?

and a Democratic House in 2012

[...a NEW DAY dawning and the stock market jumps 500 points in jubilation of a new POTUS and Republican Senate too!]

...don't tell me...and then the alarm went off, and you found yourself laying in a pool of your own urine...

Well Bob -- this is one more jobs plan than the Republican Congress has put forward.

Just for BoB - AGAIN

How many Job Bills have the Democrats Proposed this Year (2011)

June 21, 2011

http://democrats.senate.gov/2011/06/21/reid-if-republicans-block-another-jobs-bill-it-will-be-clear-they-care-more-about-right-wing-ideology-than-creating-jobs/

Washington, D.C.–Nevada Senator Harry Reid made the following remarks today on the Senate floor regarding Republican attempts to block the Economic Development Administration reauthorization. Below are his remarks as prepared for delivery:

This afternoon we will have a cloture vote on reauthorization of the Economic Development Administration, a law we’ve depended on for going on 50 years.

This is the fourth jobs bill Democrats have brought to the floor this year. I hope Republicans will not allow it to be the fourth jobs bill to wither on the vine thanks to their obstructionist tactics.

This is a good piece of legislation with decades of helping American businesses in economically distressed communities to innovate, grow and hire.

In the last five years alone, the Economic Development Administration has created 314,000 jobs. It has successfully turned every one dollar in federal investment into seven dollars in private sector investment.

It is good legislation that will create good jobs for Americans who need them. Unfortunately, that’s not enough to win bipartisan support among the Republicans here in D.C. who are more interested in destroying Medicare than creating jobs.

The Small Business Innovation Research bill was a good piece of legislation, too. That also died in the Senate last month under a pile of unrelated amendments.

The bills the Senate passed this year reauthorizing the Federal Aviation Administration and reforming America’s patent system were good legislation, too. They would have created or saved half a million jobs. They made it out of the Senate alive, but now they are languishing in the Republican-controlled House.

Will the Economic Development Authority suffer the same fate? I certainly hope not. Because the American people need jobs. And if Republicans block another jobs bill – their fourth this year – it will be clear that they are more interested in right wing ideology than creating much-needed employment.

None of the 90 amendments – most of which have nothing to do with this bill – is important enough to stop a jobs bill that could put hundreds of thousands of people to work.

Once again, today’s vote is about priorities.

Americans have been very clear: job creation is their number one priority.

Democrats share that priority. Republicans don’t. We will never stop bringing jobs bills to the floor. And we will never stop fighting the other side’s obstructionism to try to get them passed.

Again, Republicans have a different priority: ending Medicare.

They have worked hard to block three bills that could have created and saved hundreds of thousands of jobs during tough economic times. But they have pushed even harder for their ideological plan to kill Medicare as we know it.

The Republican plan would put insurance company bureaucrats between seniors and their doctors. Every senior would pay $6,400 more for health care in its first year alone. And it would force more than 7 million seniors to pay more for cancer screenings and treatments beginning next year.

Americans have been clear about this, too: they have resoundingly rejected this ideological plan to hurt seniors.

Unfortunately, I haven’t seen a shred of evidence that my Republican friends are getting the message on Medicare. Today they’ll have a chance to show the American people whether they’ve heard the message on jobs. I hope they have, because so much is at stake. And America is watching.

And this does not include the $50 Billion Dollar Infrastructure Bill that would have created 35,000 jobs for every $1 Billion invested. This Bill was 100 % paid for by repealing the incentives to Big Oil. It passed the House, got a majority vote in the Senate and was filibustered by the right – So no jobs bill.

The point is that President Obama has been trying to create jobs and the GOP/TP has been busy stopping him and then lies and try to claim the President Obama has done nothing. This is not true. The only thing that is true is that the GOP/TP has opposed and blocked virtually every single bill that would create jobs and stimulate the economy.

It is the GOP/TP that created this mess to begin with and are doing everything in their power to make it worse by adopting the same failed agenda of the previous administration.

The GOP/TP has blocked the creation of millions of jobs and has demanding spending cuts that are going to cost us hundreds of thousand more. This will increase the deficit not lower it. Much needed revenues will be driven down at both the State and Federal Level. This will further put pressure on a weak economy and do not be surprised if the Tea Party causes another Credit Rating downgrade. The 112^th Congress will go into the record books for causing two Credit Rating Downgrades under their LEADERSHIP. They are already in the record books as the most “dysfunctional” and “unproductive Congress” in History and the cause of one Credit Rating Downgrade. So what do they do, put us on track for another downgrade.

Just because someone submits a bill and makes false claims about it doesn't mean it was good for the country and deserves approval. Boring, repetitive posts. YAAAWWNNN. Same old jokes put me to sleep. LOL. Got any new material?