Bob, I would suspect that is because there are a huge number of wackos out there that do not bother to think, read, or check facts. They buy into all of the lies of the right. Since you seem to identify with that crowd it surprises me to see you here daily with folks who basically ignore your drivel.

Bob, now that's scary. I don't want this nutcase Perry anywhere close to the Presidency!!

We don't need another dose of dumb from TX!

Joking right?

Dubya and Perry - Dumb and Dumber

Awww leave 'booby' my pet Roomba alone will ya Bev? ;o)

He likes to wander around a round room looking for a corner...

Let them continue to crow about poll numbers 14 months out from the election...

They have to find comfort in something... lol

Meanwhile, back in realityland - the ONLY poll that counts is the one on 11.2012!

PS: You think they're obnoxious NOW - just wait until they lose their ass again...

OK, bob (numbers).

Lie on the Right------Iraq and WMD...start there with over 4,500 US service members killed and over 35,000 tragically wounded..........Billions/Trillions of dollars......

Is that a lie you can live with!

I cannot!

Is this selected information? I looked at a number of polls for the past week. Comparisons of Republican candidates running against President Obama. Not a log of good information this week for the President. I really wish we could see a broad picture of polls rather than what MSNBC selects. It is getting tough to keep MSNBC as my home page for news.

Domineco - do better than this, please.

Bob, Once the American people tune in for real...Perry won't be anywhere near 47% or anywhere close to the President. Perry is a wacko nut job. He has no chance of winning the presidency but if the Republicans want to nominate him well then waste your vote. Let's see how many people he can convince that social security is not good for them and to let him destroy it.

My guess is Perry polled close to Obama 1-2 weeks ago because he was largely unknown; he was the generic Republican.

With all these repeated slip ups and extreme positions coming to light, e.g., today's doubling down on the lie that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme (it's not), I expect that number to fall.

Bob-1887910

Feisty, explain how such a "wacko" is tied in a Gallup poll, with your wonderful President?

I believe it was Abraham Lincoln -- or was it PT Barnum? -- who best explained it ...

"You can fool some of the people all of the time."

And that number seems to be getting larger. Obviously, it's the failing public education system.

Or maybe it's really the billions upon billions upon billions of dollars in special interest money being spent to fool them.

@ Daryl ~

Excellent post. My point exactly, only graphically. Bravo.

chilled...http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikileaks-show-wmd-hunt-continued-in-iraq-with-surprising-results/

"But WikiLeaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction.

Also here: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/us_did_find_iraq_wmd_AYiLgNbw7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM

Sorry chump!

Fiesty, I see the personal attacks still keep coming! Cant beat them with legitimate positions and intellectual critical thinking so lets beat them by personally attacking them. What playbook is that out of again? Fiesty, have you come up with any of your own well thought out responses yet to any policy debate or is it still the liberal think tank posting for you?

By the way, its much worse than tied than the Gallup poll would suggest for Obama. In the electoral swing states he is losing by over 10 points to either Romney or Perry. I love how Perry is a wacko nut job as he is campaigning for the GOP nomination but a community organizer with zero business experience with only a college professorship as his work experience, several years in the Senate mainly voting present, friends and colleagues with Ayers the avowed terrorist, Wright the anti american religious zealot, Rezco the democratic machine fixer, has so many colleagues and friends who think 9/11 was an inside job by the government, believes in leveling the playing field in a manner that removes all meritocracy from the work place but that person that held these positions while campaigning for the democratic nomination wasnt a nut job.

Its amazing when work experience and success is now considered nut jobbish but government employment and lack of personal responsibility or accountability for the choices you make in life are considered mainstream and normal. When did having someone else pay for my way in life, bailouts, handouts and always saying its someone else's fault become the standard form of life?

This far out from the general 2012 election, the incumbent generally trails the opposition because there is no one opponent. You have 12-15 GOP candidates lobbing mud balls at President Obama daily. Voters tend to browse the other side, test the waters. Polls today comparing any incumbent with the dozen plus wannabees are pretty much worthless.

As for those "small government" GOPTP candidates, think again. Pay attention to the legislation they have proposed. It is big, intrusive government ala GOPTP style--forced religion, women's reproductive rights eliminated, voters' rights reduced, de-regulate in the name of corporate profits, get rid of public education, workers' rights to bargain for wages and benefits eliminated, and dozens of other little things the GOPTP hopes no one notices.

Perry's "baggage" is full of embarrassing trash. His "record" is a fake. His official resume is padded and polished. He cannot possibly survive the public examination that goes on over the course of a campaign. His opponents have been giving him a bit of a bye for now, but that's not long to survive.

But at the moment he's driving the GOP presidential clown car. It won't last.

I hate to say this, but I think old boobie is as dumb as Rick Perry. Also, I'm hoping Slick Rick , continues to criticism Social Security as a 'Ponzi Scheme.' Slick Rick is the most dangerous person running for President.

Madison

Name one great President from Texas or Alaska. Just one. That's right, you can't. Bush I, read my lips, mediocre. Bush II, gimme a break. Alaska? (sound of crickets)

Folks, untie the knots in your panties. Perry is going back to Texas with his tail between his legs. He can't stand the national scrutiny. When the media gets done with him even FOX will abandon him. Perry is a good ole boy from a good ole boy state. They practice "pay to play" and that's his power base but that's not going to work on the national stage.

Romney will be the nominee and he will go down to defeat because of his religion. Sorry folks, but that's just the facts. 70% of Americans regard the Latter Day Saints as a cult like Scientology. But he's got a modicum of intelligence, a famous name, good looks and class, all things Perry lacks.

Romney's strategy is a good one. Stand back, do not engage and let the media do it's job. They'll begin to find the holes in Perry's background and tear them wide open.

To be this high this early in the polls is very bad. It means your campaign will peak too early. Mitt is a comfortable number two and that's the place to be right now.

2012 will be Obama vs Romney and the President will be re-elected by the largest margin in US history. You can bank on it.

America Held Hostage, day 241

Obama/Biden 2012

hs321.....

Dubya even joked about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQt, the inability to find WMD in Iraq, this was done at a black tie event....much to his peril.

Believe the Post or believe Dubya!

Jim: Feisty and the other lib regulars do have jobs: they work for MSDNC. this is clear in that their posts are always the first ones when an article is released. also, note their comments are never collapsed "by the community". what is funny is they think no one else can see this. I dont know what it pays, but probably not much.

guess you get what you pay for.

Daryl, How about:

"Mission Accomplished".

"No Child Left Behind" (although, it had bi-lateral support. It just never made it to the budget)

"The vote in Florida has been counted and recounted"

'I never knew Enron's Ken Lay until 1984..' paraphrased for brevity.

It's really quite a disturbing legacy. I just don't get why the American people continue to buy these stories. I guess it's because of the old marketing adage, if you're going to tell a lie, make sure it's a big one. They're certainly taken that to heart.

I had to think for a minute what Madison meant, about great presidential candidates from Alaska...? Then I realized he was talking about Sarah Palin.

The woman who resigned from her elected office after two and a half years. The woman who never saw a piee of pork she didn't turn down (and yeah, she said "no" to the Bridge to Nowhere only after the feds said Alaska would have to pony up it's share to finish the project.)

Chilled and daryl,

First - you guys need to understand the definition of a lie ...... an intentional misrepresentation of a known fact in an effort to deceive.

1. Everyone in the world believed Hussein had weapons - Hillary even made a very compelling argument.

2. The historical fact remains that Hussein had WMD. He killed tens of thousands of Iranians with them, he killed @!$%#es with them and killed Kurds with them. He had two previous nuclear programs.

The only issue is what happened to them. Youseff Bodanksy's "The Secret History of the Iraq War" a New York Times # 1, cites the dates, the places and how many of the weapons went out of the country to Syria, cites how some were deep sixed (the Russians favorite method), etc.

Bottom line - the fact that you cannot find your car keys, that you have looked everywhere and after all this time they are still gone does not prove the car keys never existed.

daryl - be a big boy and cut the childish fringe crap.

Obama is a socialist? Again - he was graded left of a self-avowed socialist, Bernie Sanders, in 2007. What has Obama done that is free market? Name one thing Obama has done that puts individual freedom and liberty before the government.

Pain was the governor of a state. That executive experience alone qualifies her infinitely more than Obama who had again - not ONE second of executive experience.

Perry is the governor of a state that has a business friendly environment - which in turn - helps create jobs.

Death Panels?

You have bureaucrats that decide what drugs are available and who should receive them. The bureaucrats allocate and direct limited resources. Sorry if this is too difficult for you to understand the ramifications.

Who said Obama was responsible for TARP? BTW - TARP is the only government program that it could be argued that actually helped.

$200 million a day for a hotel? Now you guys are lying about a supposed lie.

Bottom line is that one of the biggest and most respected news agencies in the world reported this (the total cost of the trip amounted to $200 million a day.) They reported the re-direction of an aircraft carrier group to provide missile and sea security for the presidents visit. Who knows what it cost if the total cost was amortized over those few days.

All-in-all ....... pretty lame irrelevent stuff .....that didn't deserve that much time.

Got anything relevent, not ad hominem crazy stuff?

michj - Do you find little green men under your bed at night as well???? You know they have drugs to help with paranoia.....

"Booby, it has everything to do with the way it's worded , who pays for the poll, and how much bullchit those being polled." - Beverly in Chicago

Twisting around trying to paint the Gallup organization as right-leaning is just laughable.

Mitchj - another shallow, dismissive right wing troll who brings nothing whatsoever to the table.

Name one great President from Texas or Alaska. Just one. That's right, you can't. Bush I, read my lips, mediocre. Bush II, gimme a break. Alaska? (sound of crickets)

I'm a fan of LBJ. I seem to remember he passed some significant legislation.

"Name a lie on the right - not a liberal twisting of their words, an actual lie and try to defend your position."

Tax breaks for the wealthy create jobs. My defense? Oh, and the rate of job losses at the end of the Bush term(s). Extending those cuts sure created a lot more jobs under Omaba, huh??

mitch j

note their comments are never collapsed

Talk about blinders, liberal posts are often collapsed, especially Feisty Red Head's. The rightwingers target Feisty because she takes the fight to them and doesn't back down.

Very insightful John A. Since you consider yourself one of the intellectuals on this site, do you think you have ever "changed" someone's position on this site with your pithy witty commentary while thinking that because you quote some historical progressive we are supposed to quake? You of all people should be avoiding the personal attacks and see if your masters of the universe large brain can wow us with why we fiscal conservatives are wrong. But my guess is that just like Obama, you have never actually had to work in a job that was based on a meritocracy rather than tenure. I actually think you progressives are more afraid of earning your success rather than having it just handed to you that you would prefer jobs like college professor or any union job where the pay is based on a contract and how many years of service rather than ambition, talent, initiative and yes merit. Why not use those precious critical thinking skills and explain to us in real world economic behaviorial terms why Obama's policies are failing now but surely will work in the future? Tell us for example how Obamacare with its new insurance mandates will improve the health care of us working stiffs both qualitatively and financially? Explain how mandating extra benefits and the fine will have employers keep the existing high quality benefits and not reduce them or dramatically increase the cost of health care or even drop them all together? Come on I am sure one of your books will give you the answer.

Gosh Boobie, you just proved my theory. You are not the brighest bulb in the tea bagger pack. Saying something so stupid does not make such a statement fact.

Daryl-Don't forget that all teabaggers are racist. You can't even get the thought correct. "we don't have a tax problem. We have a spending problem.", which is actually true. Since you say it's a lie please go ahead and explain. This is the central issue of the next campaign. BTW Obama apparently agrees with the "lie".

daryl,

So you can't even list serious issues and I refute even your lame crap.

What did I turn upside down? The definition of a lie? Did I need to give you examples, like:

When Clinton said he did not have sexual relations with that woman - it was a lie becuse it was a known fact to him that he had had sexual relations with that women and the statement was intentional misrepresentation of that fact in an effort to deceive America.

When Obama says unemployment will not go above 8% if you give me a trillion to spend - that is not a lie. Although he is intending to deceive America, what will happen is an unknown fact. He is simply a clueless idiot, but not a liar. Again - sorry this is over your head - tough being a lib, huh?

Anyway, so now you got nothing, but ad hominem.

Wow - that was a surprise.

BTW - You probably get asked this all the time, (especially after stupid posts), but do have another brother named daryl too?

Bottom line is that one of the biggest and most respected news agencies in the world reported this (the total cost of the trip amounted to $200 million a day.) They reported the re-direction of an aircraft carrier group to provide missile and sea security for the presidents visit. Who knows what it cost if the total cost was amortized over those few days.

Not so to FAST booby - I realize getting your butt kicked smarts a bit - but cut out the bullsh!t!

When did Trust of India become one of the most respected news sources in the world! LMFAO!

The hard-to-swallow claim originated with a Nov. 2 Press Trust of India article quoting an unnamed "top official" in the government of Maharashtra (one of India's states). The source was quoted as saying that Obama's upcoming trip to Mumbai will cost $200 million per day for security and living arrangements, among other things. The story claimed that the president would be accompanied by about 3,000 people, including Secret Service agents, government officials and journalists, and will stay at the Taj Mahal Hotel — the scene of a 2008 terrorist attack.

We find stories based on anonymous sources always deserve special caution, especially when they come from only one news organization. In this case, the anonymous official is not even in the U.S. government, and any information about costs would necessarily have come second-hand at best, an added reason for caution

Bold added for emphasis: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factcheck.org%2F2010%2F11%2Fask-factcheck-trip-to-mumbai%2F&ei=2_NbTrPCCrLgsQK6uvymDA&usg=AFQjCNG6Oq6IsxUW-wRASnKk1SkH7b6Zpw

I will give you credit booby - you wear desperation well... ;o)

Extremely well...

"... also, note their comments are never collapsed "by the community..."

You should have been here around 5 or 6 weeks ago.....

"Cause it would appear that he's hanging at just 38% approvals right now. It would appear that the vast majority lack your insight."

Well- if that isn't a reason to abandon him in favor of 'God is punishing the East coast'- Bachmann, or "I prayed for rain' Perry, I don't know what is! Boy, Spank, y' got us there!

"Extending those cuts sure created a lot more jobs under Omaba, huh??" - drive-by-observer

What you would expect to see is a surge of job growth starting at the point where the continuation of the lower rate became obvious to the people who create jobs. This surge would be expected to be temporary lasting a few months as the first wave of immediate hiring occurs. This would taper off -- also temporarily -- as the bulk of the initial positions are filled. A few months after the hiring surge there should be a purchasing surge as the newly hired employees become more comfortable with their economic situations and start to spend more freely. A few months after this purchasing surge commences, employers become more confident in their economic outlook and hire a second wave of employees and the cycle starts anew with the second wave of employees becoming comfortable with their economic situations spurring a second wave of purchasing and so forth.

So far the jobs market and purchasing behavior has followed this model exactly since October 2010 when it became obvious the tax rate would be extended for the small businesses that actually employ people. We had a temporary surge of private sector hiring from October through April. This initial wave of hiring ended in May. In July we see the expected -- large -- spending surge as the employees hired in the initial wave of hiring became more comfortable in their situation. Step 3 will likely begin in November/December with another hiring spree to meet the higher demand before Christmas.

It's all going exactly as it should whether you want to hear it or not.

Bob-1887910

Feisty, explain how such a "wacko" is tied in a Gallup poll, with your wonderful President?

Gallup: Rick Perry and Obama tied at 47%..

*popcorn*

Because the vast majority of Americans are not very bright. Especially the ones who vote Republican. Its been proven statistically. People who vote Republican generally have a lower IQ than those who vote Democrat.

That being said, I'm not a big fan of Obama. Just even less of a fan of the Republican party.

Ron Paul 2012

Oh no Drive By, we know you, and Fiesty and Bev. and the Johns and the rest of you gang will never abandon him.

Amy would have to draw another picture on her Trapper Keeper for goodness sake.

More like the rest. I presume you have see a few of the responses to Alter's "prove Obama does not suck" article.

Man, how bad is it when a complete Obamaite like Alter has to come out with stuff like that?

Bad. Really, really bad.

Stiff upper lip Drive By.

When did Trust of India become one of the most respected news sources in the world! LMFAO!

Coming from someone that holds thinkprogress as gospel? Yea lmfao.

But, I dunno, the largest news agency in the second most populated country on the planet that has 450 newspapers, a staff of 2,000 that exchanges information with 100s of news agencies around the world including the Associated Press, Agence France-Presse, the New York Times, Bloomberg etc that has a global presence with offices in Washington DC, New york, Bangkok, Beijing, Dubai, Moscow ..... does your bible thinkprogress have all that?

So Feisty, you have never answered - how much does it cost to take 3,000 people to India, all of the hotels, how many airlifts for all the cars and security, all the advance security of removing every coconut from every tree along Obama's route, moving a carrier group of 30 ships ........ so Obama and Michele can do a little sight-seeing for a couple days while Jeff Immelt of GE closes a few deals to provide those needed jobs in his new plants in China?

Man it must really chafe the libbies hides that Rassmussen has Obama with higher number than Gallup.

Guess Gallup is also going to be part of the Fox empire.

"Most of the world based their beliefs on Sadam's WMD on intel from the US, which we know Bush/Cheney rigged for the result they wanted (Valerie Plame mean anything to you?). Both UN and US investigators on the ground in Iraq opposed this stance at the time of the invasion." - daryl

That's just a lie. Here is Hans Blix's (Executive Chairman, United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission) testimony to the UN on January 27, 2003 -- less than 2 months prior to our invading. He stated that they had found tons of chemical and biological WMD and noted "Iraq states that they were overlooked from 1991 from a batch of some 2,000 that were stored there during the Gulf War. This could be the case. They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg." Blix may not have liked that we took away his job by invading, but his testimony stands on its own.

Nice try at re-writing history, but as long as there are people with memories around -- who don't believe in rainbows and unicorns -- it's not going to work.

Coming from someone that holds thinkprogress as gospel? Yea lmfao.

I didn't realize Think Progress used anonymous sources....

OH WAIT - they DON'T! yup! LMFAO!

So Feisty, you have never answered - how much does it cost to take 3,000 people to India,

I wouldn't know since that's another BOLD FACED LIE coming from you!

Not to mention he was on officical business for the G20 summit and NOT a vacation like you tea baggers like to regurgitate!

But he's got to shill or he doesn't get paid

Thanks Daryl!

Little dude's gonna starve to death if this is the BEST he can come up with! ;o)

daryl-

President Obama needn't worry about any lies being told about him.

He should worry about the economy.

It's bad, and truly, he's had more than two and a half years to change that.

It's the truth President Obama needs to be afraid of.

Lies told about him can't hurt him.

The state of the economy...?

Now, THAT'S reality...it's the real truth.

And, it's President Obama's real problem, daryl.

Not simply something somebody, somewhere, sometime, said.

Hey Spanky...still striving for mediocrity, I see...don't worry Little Dude...another week has begun, and you'll have ample time to prove that mediocrity with every post.

...keep reachin' for the stars!

John A said: Mitchj - another shallow, dismissive right wing troll who brings nothing whatsoever to the table.

John - with a remark such as this, what does it make you? Intelligent, exciting, and a pillar of the boards?

I live in rural Lubbock TX. I have a teenager in school. For the last 3 years there have not been enough math books available to bring one home. Each desk has 1 book for each child to use during their math period. Feels more like the old USSR than some free market miracle.

daryl,

Most of the world based their beliefs on Sadam's WMD on intel from the US, which we know Bush/Cheney rigged for the result they wanted (Valerie Plame mean anything to you?).

What I cited was historic fact. Of course the world believed - Hussein wanted the world to believe it. (That should be your arument - he was just bluffing)

Bush talked about the Axis of Evil - N. Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Libya.

Iraq was the one country everybody believed had them. Has it not occurred to you that it is now historic fact that they all had nuclear programs - EXCEPT IRAQ the one everyone was sure of?

Right?

Ever occur to you that maybe Hussein was outsourcing? Libya?

Funny that Qaddafi called up and said he had been meaning to tell us about his program and decided he didn't want it - we could drop by and pick up all his stuff - coincidently SIX DAYS AFTER WE DRAGGED HUSSEIN OUT OF HIS HOLE!

Valerie? lol. btw - we did find yellow cake in Iraq. If he wasn't trying to buy it ...... why did he buy it ...... or did it just appear?

This and all other garbage you spew on the subject are out of line anyway since my post stated specifically WHEN WE INVADED, not before-hand. No WMD or any evidence for WMD were found after we invaded. So, unless you want to talk about what I said, you are simply spinning since you know you are now lying yourself.

So now you want to play word games? Another surprise.

BTW - So you suggesting that Hussein had them and moved them prior to the invasion like any 2 bit drug dealer would have done given the amount of time he had? Thanks for making a good point.

Business friendly? You mean anti-worker, anti-union, anti-education, anti-person and anti-common sense?

Yea ...... like Obama's war on business, energy and demagoguery of the job creators is common sense.

Libya?

So our CIA military units as well as other special forces have assisted in paving the way for for French and UK special forces to lead the principal rebel force, the LIFG led by Abd Al-Hakim Belhadj in the capture Qaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound and the overrunning of Al Salim district where they emptied the local jails of all Qaddafi's al-Qaeda prisoners.

If course, the veteran al-Qaeda fighter himself, Al-Hakim Belhadj, had been captured by the CIA and extradited to Libya were Qaddafi had him in prison previously, before the "liberation."

So - Obama is helping al-Qaeda linked fighters, who preciously had been killing American servicemen in Afghanistan and Irag over throw a country that had ceased to be a threat to America in effort to help the French and UK oil supply and in so doing has afforded al-Qaeda probable access to Qaddafi's chemical and biological weapons, portable surface-to-air missiles and tons of other military equipment.

Does anyone seriously think the jihadists with all the guns and weapons that control everything are really going to turn power over to the NTC?

You don't think this is asinine?

And finally daryl, I don't get my information from political entertainment shows or idiots like O'Reilley. (See if you find the Libya details on Fox)

Anyway nice lame attempt to marginalize ...... surprised again.

I see the political bloggers are trying hard to draw Romney into the ring with Perry. It is still too soon - need wait for the first debate. Romney is still trying to engage Obama instead of the lunatic fringe - although Romney keeps dancing with them on the sidelines.

Rick Perry is a self correcting problem for Romney. George W. Perry will not play very well during the general - GOP management understands that. Perry is killing the Bachmann campaign, too, which is a major advantage for Romney. Perry will come away from the debates looking like a reprise of George W. Romney will come away looking like the most rational adult on the GOP stage that is still willing to dance with the TEA Partiers.

And President Obama will continue to ignore them all. Obama's polling will suffer until the campaigning for the general election begins. Obama is running against the economy, at the moment. All of the GOP candidates are truly unimportant. GOP sniping at Obama actually helps Obama's campaign for the general election.

I wonder if Rick Perry can pronounce the word 'nuclear'?

Not to mention he was on officical business for the G20 summit and NOT a vacation like you tea baggers like to regurgitate!

You realize the G20 summit was not in Mumbai, right?

What was Michelle's function at the G20 - tell them they shouldn't eat french fries?

Jeff Immelt of GE?

Is GE a member of the G20 now? Maybe he advises the world how to move their business to China, huh?

Still can't even foul a big leaguer's pitch off?

Minor league mascots are kinda funny that way.

Awww, Spanky...you crack me up...quite the stretch there, Scooter!

...tick tock, Mediocrity Man...tick tock...

Obama has now decided to only deport illegals who have committed violent crimes.

Now? Obama has deported more illegals in 2 1/2 years than Bush Jr did in 8! Obama "decided" to uphold Federal immigration laws a long time ago.

His uncle just commited a crime - DUI during whci he caused a car crash. wonder if this qualifies Uncle for deportation? No a chance, right.

Not a chance. We don't deport people for "DUI", we deport them for being here illegally, and said Uncle is a citizen. But of course some far right nutjobs think all of Obama's relatives must be illegal, even the ones born in Kansas...

You realize the G20 summit was not in Mumbai, right?

Yes Booby - I mispoke!

Unlike you tea baggers we are not perfect!

Fascinating though, that you still got punked with your BS! lol

Here's a little more for you to choke on:

On Nov. 4, Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell called the story "absolutely absurd," because it had claimed that the U.S. Navy was sending 34 warships to the coast off Mumbai as part of the president’s visit:

Morrell, Nov. 4: I will take the liberty this time of dismissing as absolutely absurd this notion that somehow we were deploying 10 percent of the Navy — some 34 ships and an aircraft carrier — in support of the president’s trip to Asia. … That’s just comical. Nothing close to that is being done.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factcheck.org%2F2010%2F11%2Fask-factcheck-trip-to-mumbai%2F&ei=hhBcToizCoqtsALi_q0-&usg=AFQjCNG6Oq6IsxUW-wRASnKk1SkH7b6Zpw

What goes up, must come down... Everyone sing-a-long now...

Who's Morrell's boss?

So how many ships was it?

You are right .... it's crazy.

That's as crazy as using 6 helicopters, a 747 and an armored caravan to take one guy and his dog 500 miles for a vacation after the wife kids couldn't wait a couple of hours.

Kirk, I did not choose to go on and on about anything. However , I am a paraplegic due to an autoimmune disorder, and at my age starting over with a move seems to me would be too hard/costly under the circumstances. My fight is right here. When I was in school here in Texas I never did without anything in my pursuit to an education. I never had anything to make a comparison to, until now, and it is unbelievable. There is no comparison between the 60s and now. There are no public employee unions here, zero. We do not know what they entail, there have never been any here. You did not witness me say anything other than my child does not even merit a book here in TEXAS. It is so shocking to me that I think people should know. I and my wife will do all within our power to get him into college and buy his books. He is an HONOR student and I spend hours with him on his homework. This is all I know to do under the circumstances. His Mom and Dad are both college educated and I worked until my company put me on disability, which I paid for. His mother continues to work for her child, and I suspect will work until he is educated in spite of her retirement opportunities. Our Governor has sold out his constituents in order to run for President. He has always been a politician, other than his service to our country in the military. He was raised by a Politician and he is an opportunist. I grew up about 50 miles away from him at about the same time. I cannot support him in any fashion other than his service in the military.

@ Kirk ~

Maybe the liberals on this site will take you seriously when you finally admit that you are not the only one who blogs out here who works for a living IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, not the only one with an advanced degree, earned with honors, not the only one with a family, not the only one who pays taxes, not the only one who donates to charity, and not the only one who has never taken any government assistance in any way.

Start there, and see how it goes. Because right now, you are constantly a victim of your own self-importance.

You usually spend 1/3 of your posts accusing those who disagree with you of making personal attacks, 1/3 of your posts personally attacking those who disagree with you, and the other 1/3 of your posts explaining first what a reasonable guy you are and then proving that you are not reasonable -- in almost 100 percent of your posts, the only viewpoint you acknowledge to be legitimate is your own.

I still dont understand what the purpose of government unions and why the state unions need better collective bargaining rights as the federal employees I keep asking this question to Anna Molly and the others on here with no response.

My point exactly. I've answered this question for you, but you don't listen to the answer because you don't like it. It isn't YOUR answer, so you grant it no validity.

Why do you always assume that federal employees should set the ceiling for other government employees? Why don't local government employers get to decide what they pay their employees? Why do they need the state legislature or Congress to do that for them? Isn't that Big Brotherism and contrary to the American way?

Just to show you what you are really saying, do you also believe that one non-unionized employee should set the ceiling beyond which other employees may not aspire? I think Ayn Rand would roll over if you said yes to that. Why can't other employees try to do better for themselves?

There is neither a logical nor a legal basis for your assumptions. Beyond the issue of public unions compared with each other, why should public unions be limited to what private unions have? Why shouldn't union members who have LESS aspire to MORE? Isn't that the way it's supposed to work in a capitalistic society? Everyone tries to do better, and not to resign themselves to constantly doing worse, thus perpetuating the downward spiral of wages and benefits begun with Ronald Reagan's frontal assault on unions and carried on relentlessly by the corporatists for these past 30 years, without making much positive impact on our economy.

Is this somehow a GOOD thing, Kirk?

Why do conservatives always insist on cramming everything down to the lowest common denominator?

Whose interests does that serve?

You and I both know the answer to that.

Anna Molly, thats the first time you actually responded to me with a reasoned response so you dont like my posts and I Understand because lets face it very few actually will debate because it seems all of our minds are made up based on the posts we make. I am reasonable and actually agree with some of what you write and I definitely try to respond with accusing those with personal attacks with some of the same to show the hypocrisy. I never said I dont do it too, thats the point. I never say the only position is mine. I have had many conversation on tax policy, revenue generation etc where I agree at least in part to what many on here say. When I get some semblance of actual of a response that at least indicates they understand the point I am making then I will soften it up. I am not anti union but definitely struggle with parts of the union agenda. Illinois is not a very good lesson on the excesses of public sector unions so I am jaded. I am also jaded by my personal experience in negotiating on the other side and I do see the efficiency, merit and upward mobility discrepancies that were in my former work environment. Doesnt make me wrong or right, just a real issue. We tend to negotiate or discuss these issues in terms of black and white rather than shades of grey. I would love to get into the shades of grey which is why I post the way I do because the people on the right firmly believe they are right (which you put me into because we never truly get past I am right you are wrong rhetoric. Certainly the people on the left here have no interest in the shades of grey as they give not even an inch. Again, Anna Molly, if you really wanted to have a real discussion on this with topic without politics interfering I am always open and with your experience maybe you could move me off some of my positions. But have you really tried? Seriously tried?

By the way I will never say I have never taken government assistance. Are you kidding me? I get a mortgage deduction, my wife has taken unemployment and I am not going to say I dont that would be hypocritical of me. I also dont think its hypocritical to take advantage of whats offered to minimize taxes etc just as I dont think it is for Buffet to lower his taxes. I am all for getting rid of all of it and I am all for means testing certain benefits. I have been consistent in my willingness to agree with many of the democrats on here about that, and how bad Bush was. Give me some props for not being part of some platform you want to put me in. But dont attack me everytime I disagree that doesnt necessarily make me bad or wrong either.

Kirk:

Anna Molly, thats the first time you actually responded to me with a reasoned response

Not the first, but after that, certainly the last.

Unbelievable. And exactly what I'm trying to tell you.

By the way, I've NEVER taken any government assistance, including my student loans, which were private, or my mortgage deduction, unless you are also prepared to call your charitable deductions and tax breaks for the wealthy WELFARE. I know you're not, so don't be disingenuous. In fact, I'll bet you're part of the crowd that refers to repealing the Bush tax cuts to be a tax INCREASE. So under those circumstances, calling the mortgage deduction government assistance is just ... well, self-serving situational rationalization is the only description that comes to mind.

I also don't consider unemployment insurance to be government assistance because it is paid for with taxes, partly by employees, just like Social Security and Medicare. But I've never collected any of those things, either.

And there you go again. Every time someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of attacking you. I was actually trying to help you. Tough love, you know. Sigh.

Ever wonder why you're so insecure, Kirk?

The AMAZING thing is that after the LAST WORTHLESS PIECE OF @!$%# FROM TEXAS, we are considering allowing his "quasi-clone" to go blithely along and perform the IDENTICAL IDIOCY yet again.

You REALLY think the AMERICAN ELECTORATE doesn't have a brain (yeah, I know - for the lowest common denominator, they probably DON'T and don't give a @!$%# who is steering the log). Perry will be up to his @!$%# in negative publicity virtually instantly IF the RETHUGs keep considering this reject from A&M as "presidential quality" (they are essentially throwing him under the bus, but nobody seems to recognize it...YET).

At any rate - given that this is politics as usual, prepare to be BORED TO EXTREMES.

You guys make sure to keep playing the blame game with each other. It makes it easier for both sides to rape and pillage us without any resistance.

I've wondered about that too, Bob, Feisty always being first to comment on anything from First Read. I've decided that she lives at MSNBC in a little room with a cot and a laptop. When Chuckie or one of the others is about to post a new story, they wake her up and tell her it's time to comment. Exciting life, huh!

Mike in SA: The report is very impressively written, and Bix did his job based on information he was getting. That he may have been a little perturbed with Iraq for being repeatedly barred from inspections is a matter for a different conversation.

The fact remains that Bix was getting his evidence contradicting Iraq's claims from the same source the Bush administration was using: Curve Ball, who turned out to be a drunk who would tell you anything you wanted to hear if you paid him enough. International intelligence agencies had repeatedly told the US that Curve Ball was NOT a reliable source, but he was just fine for their cover story. As for the CIA backing the administration, people within CIA are on record saying Rumsfield and Cheney were onsite constantly telling them that their conclusions needed to be tweeked, until they finally got the reports that they wanted to support their position. I don't need to go into much more detail here. Google "Frontline: Bush's War" and watch it if you have the gonads. The bottom line is that even before 9/11, the Bush administration was looking for some excuse to invade Iraq, and WMD was the magic word for a frightened and angry American people.

Wait, I almost forgot. Someone will surely accuse me of being a shill for MSNBC, so let me take this opportunity to say, "Please, MSNBC, hire me as a shill! Please. Pretty please. Please with sugar on top."

I'll let you all know if that works later on.

Just goes to show that there must be a lot of organized Christians around this country, pulling for Perry.

The state of the economy...?

Now, THAT'S reality...it's the real truth.

And, it's President Obama's real problem, daryl.

So the fact that unemployment has gone up, despite the GOP Congress' being elected on the promise of job creation means nothing? WHERE ARE THE JOBS YOU PROMISED, GOP?

"The fact remains that Bix was getting his evidence contradicting Iraq's claims from the same source the Bush administration was using: Curve Ball, who turned out to be a drunk who would tell you anything you wanted to hear if you paid him enough." - theCavalier

Two points...

1) It doesn't matter where the information came from. Daryl fallaciously stated that the UN "investigators on the ground in Iraq opposed this stance (that WMD existed) at the time of the invasion". The Blix report regardless of Blix's source proves that statement to be a lie.

2) Even were one to disregard item 1 above, your statement: "The fact remains that Bix was getting his evidence contradicting Iraq's claims from the same source the Bush administration was using: Curve Ball, who turned out to be a drunk who would tell you anything you wanted to hear if you paid him enough." is also in itself a lie. Excerpts from the Blix report:

"Indeed, even one of the documents provided by Iraq indicates that the purity of the agent, at least in laboratory production, was higher than declared."

----------------------------------------

"This document was originally found by an UNSCOM inspector in a safe in Iraqi Air Force Headquarters in 1998 and taken from her by Iraqi minders."

-----------------------------------------

"The discovery of a number of 122 mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions."

-----------------------------------------

"I might further mention that inspectors have found at another site a laboratory quantity of thiodiglycol, a mustard gas precursor."

-----------------------------------------

"We have inspected this equipment and are conducting a detailed technical evaluation of it."

-----------------------------------------

" As part of its 7 December 2002 declaration, Iraq resubmitted the Amorim panel document, but the table showing this particular import of media was not included. The absence of this table would appear to be deliberate as the pages of the resubmitted document were renumbered. "

-----------------------------------------

"During my recent meeting in Baghdad, we were briefed on these two programmes."

-------------------------------------------

"Iraq also declared the recent import of chemicals used in propellants, test instrumentation and, guidance and control systems. These items may well be for proscribed purposes. That is yet to be determined. What is clear is that they were illegally brought into Iraq, that is, Iraq or some company in Iraq, circumvented the restrictions imposed by various resolutions."

What you don't see mention of at all in his report is reference to uncorroborated information gathered from ANY source.

Rainbows + Unicorns = Liberal "facts"

Dear Delusional GOP (especially you, Mike in SA)...

Its your lie man...you can tell it however you want! Not sure where??? you're getting your poll numbers, but I would take a much closer look at legitimacy (Gallup and especially Rasmussen have always been FAR right leaning) if I were you. Its all in how the questions are presented and asked. Trust me...you will see the true feelings of the American public on November 6, 2012. Bottom line...Rick Perry simply can't win...his mindless and illogical far right wing Conservative speak has/will continue to place him far outside the electorate. I see his fast rising star fading into the sunset well before Christmas. Every time this man opens his mouth he is losing poll points and will soon be carrying Bachmann's garment bag. We Progressives are very patient...we will sit back and watch the GOP systematically implode as a result of coat tailing the Teabaggers. They were your inspiration to ride a radical far right wing wave as a party...they will also serve as the GOP's Grim Reaper. Radical fringes don't win Presidential elections...plain and simple. BTW...there is mental health treatment for severe delusion...I'm sure there are group sessions you and some of your "friends" could attend. BTW #2...I spend a great deal of time in Canada and have many Canadian friends and the issues with their Universal Health care system have been blown well out of proportion by the FOX News sheep....Baaaaa....Baaaaa....Baaaa! Talk about "Rainbows and Unicorns"...LMFAO!

Anna Molly, thats a very interesting response by you even when I try to have an open honest discussion, you focus on my motivations. You do the same thing to me you accuse me of doing to the progressives on this board by again making assumptions about my views that are incorrect. I DO think that charitable deductions and loopholes for the wealthy are welfare. I have been consistent in that stance all along. Tax breaks or lower tax rates certainly arent welfare as how can something you earn be welfare but I certainly think the tax code should be progressive with everyone contributing. The Bush tax cuts or whatever you want to describe them are somewhat meaningless to me as the real issue isnt returning someone's hard earned money to them but what should be the rate everyone pays in. No I dont believe anyone should have to pay more than 50% in taxes to the government but I also dont think we should have a two tiered tax system in which dividends and capital gains rates are substantially lower for people who use that as a substitute for their actual working earnings like hedge fund managers.

I am not sure the point of you never taking government assistance and I agree that those programs you pay into are not exactly the same as welfare but as they are currently set up they become welfare when the benefits far exceed the contributions but I am not sure why thats an issue. I am not advocating any sort of cut backs or reductions etc but a recognition that spending is an issue.

You can feel I am insecure all you want--as not sure what that means in the context of this blog as most of my posts are meant to point out hypocrisy not my personal feelings as this has no bearing on anything I do personally. For me its searching for someone to actually have an intellectual discussion and yes learn as to why I could feel so different about fiscal issues than others. No different than growing up in a church that was judgemental and felt homosexuality was wrong and then growing up and experiencing a change in those views through experience and relationships. But its fine your not interested in having that discussion.

What we really do not need is another term of terror from Chicago. This president is a failed incompetent politician who is supported by mainly people who pay no taxes what soever or else they are on the public dole. Exceptions to this rule are atheists and agnostics, more than 70% of whom voted for him, and about 35% of people making more than $10M per year. The perfect example of these left wing loonies is Feisty who is on the government dole and who will lose all of her largesse if this president is re-elected. The far-left is laughable but dangerous. They are our enemies and not just our adversaries.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

Madison

Name one great President from Texas or Alaska. Just one. That's right, you can't. Bush I, read my lips, mediocre. Bush II, gimme a break. Alaska? (sound of crickets)

I find it ridiculous that Liberal mind is so devoid of history that they cannot remember that the creator of Medicare and the Great Society was from TEXAS ! OMG - let's demogague the state some more shall we, because you are right, there is no way we should celebrate that trash legislation that backrupted our nation only 46 years after it was passed.

---------------

Fiesty Beevis and her buttheads seem to be enjoying writing the word "booby" as some form of an "intelligent" jab at Bob who dared to challenge her stupid comments.

daryl-2183015

Shall I continue? There are only tens of thousands of lies being told on Fox and Drudge daily

you forgot the latest one: had Obama not been playing golf at Martha Vineyard, the earthquake could have been prevented.

I also like the one where Bachmann claims that the earthquake and the hurricane are warnings to politicians from God.

I guess when you put the two of them together, God wanted Obama to play golf so the earthquake could have had happened.

John A.-400474

Mitchj - another shallow, dismissive right wing troll who brings nothing whatsoever to the table.

mitchj claims to be a DEMOCRAT -does anyone believe mitchj (except mitchj)?

This is a prove that the far right now owns GOP. Perry/Huntsman would have looked sensible since Huntsman is a moderate.......but not seeing it happen.

Huntsman is intelligent, That's why they hate him. This party has become the anti-science party! How sad is that??

Pius Emele Nebo and haggisbingo:

The Tea Party has owned the GOP for over a year. Now we see the fruits of their ownership.

I agree with both of you. Huntsman is intelligent and Perry make stupid look normal.

Roper GfK for AP, (8/18-22, American adults, 8/11-16/10 in parentheses):

Do you have a favorable, unfavorable, or neither favorable nor unfavorable opinion of the Tea Party movement?

Favorable: 28 (31)
Unfavorable: 46 (34)

Up until this month, AP has tracked the tea party's net favorability at between -5 points and +3 points. Now, less than a month after they took America to the brink of default, their unfavorable ratings have jumped to -18 points

32% of Americans now have a "very unfavorable" view of the tea party, up from 19% in August 2010. The previous high was 22% in September.

Who cares about the popularity or unpopularity of the Tea Party as that is meaningless. Do you remember that Nancy Pelosi had an approval rating of 11% during the Obamacare process? I am pretty sure she represents her constiutents very well. Unless the tea party candidates become unpopular in their district why do you even give those numbers? Only Obama is subject to the national approval ratings--none of the others matter on a national approval basis.

I had an old ex-Republican tell me the other day that the Republicans have become the "No brains, White Trash Party," and that he was through with them.

Matt - good point

Tea Party favor-ability 32%, eh? THat's just a smidgen less than Obama's at 38%.

Seems like a real race to the bottom.

I wonder who's going to win this one.

Good point Kirk. Any republican, no matter who they are will be completely shot down by the liberals at first read. It's a matter of course... The liberals will go into high gear when the final nominee is selected... None of it will matter... their vengance against any opponent of Obama will be blantant, open hatred and totally off the wall. The republican will be challenging Obama.... the king of all liberals. That republican will be subject to ridicule, twisted logic, false premises... remember truth isn't the objective... it's the slurs that stick that will matter.

Job1 - I feel the same way about Borden's Ice Cream... to me, it's tasteless, boring and only for white trash. I guess that only proves that people's taste change.

Your example of an old ex-republican is certainly a record and a trend setter. One guy... not happy with a political party shows the entire party is in disarray. Excellent point! NOT

The art of personal destruction is their only choice when you dont have any positive accomplishments to run on. It would be a landslide victory for Obama as the incumbent if his social equality policies actually worked and he does have another year left to prove us all wrong. We have clear examples that can guide as in Illinois, California, NY where democrats have completely controlled local government and have instituted high tax (remember you guys who keep telling us its a revenue problem not a spending issue), high government regulatory environment and look how well they are doing. So its hard to see the economic turnaround that Obama has already been touting to help him but its possible. In the meantime, the Alinsky playbook is alive and well with nothing but personal attacks to bolster their candidacy rather than accomplishments.

The same people who gave us, if not the worst President in American history, than arguably one of the bottom five worst, these same people support Rick Perry. Just goes to show, that Bush error, as much as Republicans refuse to say his name, was no fluke.

What's funny is according to you Libs those 60 Tea Partiers own all of Washington too.

Ron Indiana

The conservative Tea Party owns the GOP, lock stock and barrel. There's no denying it. Romney and Huntsman, the exit door is stage left. I'm thinking a Perry/Pawlenty ticket.

ROFL... Pawlenty is such a tool. That guy couldn't govern his way out of a paper bag. Perry is a complete douche. You might as well just vote GWB in for a 3rd term.

Yeah WCA - it is a puzzle, right?

We are all just stupid - they have studies and statistics to prove it, but by golly they are getting schooled every day, in every way by just 60 of the dumbest house republicans out there.

Sure doesn't say much about all those house dems, or the dems in general given that they are so darned smart, have control of 2/3 of the government and all.

Poor Amy. Problem for you and the rest of the cheer leaders is 1. Obama said he'd make it better, and 2. unemployment was at 5% on average through "one of the bottom five worst.." term.

And again Amy - tell us how come you know Obama is so super smart. What actual evidence do you have?

Good point Spanky, most people who graduate magna cum laude from Harvard Law are known to be idiots.

Ash, the unfortunate answer to that is I have worked with alot of idiots who are magna cum laude from Harvard. Many have zero common sense and think that sheer intellect can replace actual experience and knowledge and they love to have teachable moments on subjects they actually know nothing about.

[Sure doesn't say much about all those house dems, or the dems in general given that they are so darned smart, have control of 2/3 of the government and all.]

Still haven't given your best shot at that bottle cap imitation you do so well, have you...

...tick tock "counselor"...

Kirk, I assumed that by "super smart" Spanky was referring to, as you put it, sheer intellect. I also find it unfortunate that you're willing to dismiss people as "idiots" for want of the experience and knowledge you want them to have, despite having worked their butts off to graduate with high honors from one of the toughest schools in the country.

Actually I dont. In fact I respect Obama quite a bit for his accomplishments and I kind of hate it when both sides go after GOP candidates for that or Obama. I think his academic experience is fantastic and wish we had more people that would step up like that. I dont think he is an idiot for lack of a better word. I just dont think thats the criteria used to describe someone as a great leader. We should leave Obama alone on this no different than leaving the GOP candidates alone on this.

Perry can be easily controlled by his "handlers". That's the main advantage to RETHUGs looking at Perry as potential presidential material. Easily controlled, easily manipulated, no appreciable brain... the PERFECT candidate for the rightwingnutreligionazis to propose.

Similar to having Cheney with his hand up Shrub's ass so that when the hand moved, the mouth opened, the choice of a running mate will be critical. IF they chose the VP candidate to be the "handler", expect the pushing of the candidate to the forefront and the running mate to be kept in the background as secondary (but required) for blocking assistance..

Spanky-

"Matt - good point

Tea Party favor-ability 32%, eh? THat's just a smidgen less than Obama's at 38%.

Seems like a real race to the bottom.

I wonder who's going to win this one."

Not Obama or the country is total screwed.

Elect Obama and things MIGHT get better. Elect Romney/Paul/Huntsman and life will go on, and things might get better if we're really lucky. Elect a Teabagger and America's decline will be complete.

THat's just a smidgen less than Obama's at 38%.

His average approval rating across multiple polls is 43%. Congress' average approval rating across multiple polls is 12%. Funny how the people who talk about Obama's approval rating never mention the GOP Congress' record-breaking low. The truly incredible number is the Fox News poll rating of 10%, lowest of any of the polls cited, and the lowest for any Congress. Could it be that even right wing extremists are starting to notice how poorly these clowns are performing?

Congress' record breaking low is because they can't cut spending to get it down to what our revenues are... they tried, but they were stopped by Reid and co. over in the Senate... (Democratically controlled since 2006)... so I have no clue why you call it a "GOP Congress"... but don't worry, they'll get to run in 2012 on the Obamanomics that have crushed our economy... and then it will be a GOP Congress + President... then you deadbeat Liberals are going to have to find jobs....

The low approval rating is for congress not just Republicans or democrats. Right now the democrats have a 1 point lead in approval and that is up from a few weeks ago. Real Clear Politics' composite numbers today have our President at a negative 10 points and it is dropping daily.

Which is why the leftwing zealots on here will spend all their time attacking GOP candidates; there is no defense for the atrocious failed economic disaster that is Obama-nomics..

Let's not forget that Raygun also raised taxes. He increased revenue. Not convenient ehh, Ben?

Failed policies of "W" is the reason why our country is still in the hole. Great job Bush! Perrywinkle ought to finish off the country if elected. Not that, that could happen. Repugnants policies of disasters is "par" for their course.

Amused,

Amuse us with the marginal tax rates at the beginning of the Reagan presidency and the rate when he left office.

Rates went from what 70% to 28%?

Revenues went up - what's inconvenient about that?

amused,

Failed policies of "W" is the reason why our country is still in the hole.

What failed policies would that be?

(Beware big boy - this ain't yahoo!)

Reganomics just worked long enough to get him reelected. It was temporary stimulus sugar. It's also the cause of all our economic problems today: high deficits and low tax revenue.

Ben-636056,

False post. Maybe someone will buy what you are selling. I remember the bad economy and run away inflation with morgage interest at 15% during Reagan's first term. Reaganomics does not work! Trickle down does not work. All economists agree on that. The economy did not rebound and start healing until after Reagan raised revenue significantly by raising taxes significantly. What he did preside over and we, the middle class, are still suffering from is the redistributed of wealth from the middle class to the top 2% that commenced on his watch. He did this with his union busting agenda. That is all he will be remembered for. Voo Doo economics and destruction of the middle class. Being a Californian I voted for the guy. Mistake on my part.

Stephen Moore (born February 16, 1960) is an American economic writer and policy analyst who founded and served as president of the Club for Growth from 1999 to 2004. He is currently a member of the Wall Street Journal editorial board and frequently opines on the pages of their op-ed section. Moore is known for advocating free-market policies and supply-side economics. From 1983 through 1987, Moore served as the Grover M. Hermann Fellow in Budgetary Affairs at the Heritage Foundation. Moore also was a fellow of the Cato Institute. Moore founded the Club for Growth in 1999.In 2005, he founded the 501(c)(4) Free Enterprise Fund with other prominent Club for Growth members including Arthur Laffer and Mallory Factor.^[2] Under Moore's direction, the Free Enterprise Fund lobbied for Social Security privatization, the permanent repeal of estate tax, and for tort reform.

Bob suddenly got amnesia and forgot about the tax cuts our country had to borrow for and the two wars one by choice and still the so called fiscal conservatives felt that tax cuts were the most important thing they could do for America. All this debt must be a successful bush policy.

The republican spending like drunken teenagers with no revenue increase were a good policy in your mind?

After all wasn't our economy in tip top shape when he handed it over to President Obama? No failed policies there.

(Beware big boy- this ain't faux!)

Reaganomics worked for that particular period of history but it was also a dismal failure. We are still paying the high price for his ideology. Reagan turned this country from a creditor nation to a debtor nation with his massive tax cuts and spend ideology; he grew the size of government; grew the amount of money spent on the military industrial complex; wages declined and jobs were shipped overseas because of Reagan's policies. He added 189% to the national debt while creating only 16 million jobs. The one good thing about Reagan was that he had the good sense to realize that his own tax policies were unsustainable for the country and he raised taxes about 11 times. The trouble is his tax increases disproportionately harmed the middle class.

AnaBanana, you must have amnesia as I lived through the Reagan era too and it the recession started in 79 under Carter with run away inflation, interest rates close to 20% and unemployment and a destruction to our manufacturing base that has never recovered. GDP started growing at the end of 1982 and didnt stop growing until the first Iraq war. Reagan cut rates substantially and included incentives for investment and its not true that the economy didnt recover until he started raising rates. He raised them incrementally after the economy turned around and receiptes hovered around 8% of GDP throughout his presidency but since GDP grew so much absolute dollars increased significantly and job growth went through the window. His deficits were minor in comparison to what we have now and if spending had stayed constant in terms of percentage of GDP we never would have had a deficit problem because we certainly had plenty of revenue. As most of our deficit problems are always attibuted to spending not revenue. You do realize that Clinton cut the capital gains rate which increased government revenue to its all time high of 10% of GDP right?

Reagan had nothing to do with the union busting agenda, it was because at the time the Japanese were killing us with better products made cheaper cheaper labor and made our manufacturing base disppear. Do you remember all the steel mills moving overseas? Car companies etc? Unions lost their jobs because they couldnt compete in the more global sales economy as product costs and quality couldnt keep up.

Deregulation under Regan gave us the S&L collapse. Deregulation under Bush gave us the Great Recession. How many more times do the Republicans want to try the same experiment on our economy before they admit it just doesn't work?

The only cutting Regan did was to social programs - he trippled defense spending, and raised the debt limit more often than any other president to do it.

Any freshman who has survived Econ-101 knows that in a free market if no one spends any money, nothing happens. So why are all the Republican captains of industry sitting on such huge piles of capital instead of hiring employees who become the customers making a paycheck? Maybe so they can spend it on political ads....

Bob - What part of Bush's credit card government don't you understand? Two unnecessary wars, one of which was based on "cherry picked" lies, that the Rep-bots took hook line and sinker. A government too stupid to connect the dots and resulted in 3000 deaths on 9/11. Halliburton no bid contracts, due to Cheney's influence, that fattened their bottom line and thinned the American peoples wallets. Bush fiddled while the American economy flat-lined. Accomplishments, not a dammed one, Bozo! Go back to your kennel of fleas bitten knuckle dragging troglodytes.

Well ol benny boy..It was a different economy. To Wit: We didn't have a housing bubble fueled by the repeal of Glass Steagall Act in 1999. You know that Gramm, Leach, Biley Act thingy that permitted the sale of "new and exiting" financial products like CDO"s and complicated derivatives courtesy of your friends on Wall Street. The same people who sold our great grand parents stock on margin which led to the Great Depression.

Simple solution, raise revenue. The Bush tax cuts have not worked, and that is a fact.

So Jody, based on those statistics, how many jobs and whats the increase to the national debt under Obama? Dont you wish we could say Obama only created 16 million new jobs instead of saying Obama has only destroyed 16 million old jobs? Reagan raised taxes by creating more progressivity, cutting back on the incentives for investment all valid moves once the tax cut stimulus was no longer needed. Are you guys now saying that tax cuts provide stimulus? Under Reagan, just like all previous congresses both GOP and democratic havent controlled spending. Isnt that what the teaparty is all about and you guys dont like it? Your going to criticize Reagan for government spending but you dont think Obama, Pelosi and Reid have spent too much? What planet do you guys exist on where its ok to spend too much under one regime but bad under another? Its bad to spend too much under any regime.

Explain to me how Reagan's tax policies disproportionately harmed the middle class? Are you saying thier tax cut wasnt enough? Isnt that sort of silly? It is true that the union manufacturing base was killed under the Carter administration because of high wages and poor quality products. You do remember the old GM cars the Ford pinto etc? You do remember $50 dollar an hour union wages that were being replaced by Japanes robots right? How is that reagan's fault or just plain technological development? I suppose your one of those that thinks like Obama in that we lost jobs because tellers in banks were fired after ATM machines were developed?

Kirk numbers, President Obama has created more jobs in less than 3 years than Bush 43 did in 8; and if its jobs lost, try Bush 43's records. Obama has not "lost" 16 million jobs. The largest share of the debt increase under Obama is the result of the debt created by Bush/Cheney and the GOP. They paid for NOTHING, ZERO, NADA, ZIP and spent like fools. As for the rest of your rant, you missed the point and instead deflect. Technology obviously has had an impact on manufacturing but it has also created a whole new sector of jobs. There's no point in discussing anything with you, Kirk, because you only hear what you choose to hear. It was Ronald Reagan who changed me from a republican to a democrat because I paid attention to what he said compared to what he actually did--they did not remotely match. What the heck does a Pinto have to do with anything?

Job1,

Raise revenue? In 2009 California legislators raised our taxes, Californians pay more to shop, to drive to simply live here, the increase raised $12.8 billion in new taxes. Two years later we are now $25.4 billion in the red.

So much for revenue increase, right?

I don't think anybody said raising revenues is ALL you have to do to balance a budget...any more than slashing and burning budgets alone is very smart.

Jody, I voted for John Anderson at the time in 1980 in my youthful idealism. Reagan actually convinced me to be a fiscal conservative so I guess we have something in common that went the other way. You can discuss something with me all you want and as soon as you are willing to admit facts or actually give an inch, I will too. I have said over and over that Bush was a lousy president and probably one of the worst and he clearly wasnt a fiscal conservative and I will be the first to criticize him. Now are you going to admit that Obama hasnt lived up to his billing or promise? Doubtful because its sacriledge on this blog to ever admit he isnt the best leader. Sorry but you cant give Obama credit for 3 years of jobs growth but not give him credit for 3 years of deficit. He either gets credit for it all or none. You dont get to pick and choose your economic statistics at this point. I get the point that you think Bush/Cheney were bad, I agree move on. The sorry truth is that Obama has been fiscally just as bad or worse with his social equality agenda.

Ha as for the pinto you tried to blame Reagan for union busting when it was poor quality high labor costs lack of competitiveness. The pinto was an example of that from that time period.

"Kirk" - What exactly is President Obama's social equality agenda? What policies has he implemented that speak to that? Reaganomics was a bust as well, he benefited from a dot.com bubble and a shallow recession. He also raised taxes. The Pinto had nothing to do with unions, if was a poorly conceived product by a manufacturer. If you look at President Obama's economic record it is mixed. However, you have to give him credit for saving the American car manufacturing industry. The stimulus wasn't a bad idea, the problem was it was it was laden with tax cuts (40% of the funds). Healtcare impact remains to be seen since key provisions don't take into effect until 2014. The stock market has remained over $10,000 points since he has been president and he entered office in a steep recession. Where are these so called socialist policies?

Kirk: wow. You need to pick up a book and do some reading about the fallout of Reaganomics and why it was such a miserable failure. Reagan's economic theories were a bust (what Bush 1 called 'voodoo economics') and he didn't even achieve a real cut in Federal spending--because he grew military spending significantly and his policies did not boost the economy as he had predicted (what a surprise...concentrating on the wealthy only didn't quite work).

AP, read many books and actually experienced it, along with the Bush 1 era, Clinton era, Bush 2 era and now this. Obama on economics has been far worse than any of the other combined. Where were you during Reagan? During his third year GDP was growing 5% and coming out of much worse recession than we have now. I agree he didnt control spending but thats probably not somewhere you want to go if you want to compare spending to the current administration regardless of revenue. How you can call the Reagan era under any historical standards a miserable failure means you certainly are reading the wrong books. Google GDP growth during all the last economic cycles and explain to me how it didnt work again?

"Kirk" you are delusional, that recession was basically driven by inflation and oil prices. The GDP growth was the result of a dot.com bubble, not true manufacturing output... Oh, there was na S&L scandel on his watch too. Come on man! The manufacturing slide was accelerated under Regan, its now under 10% of the national GDP, Clinton helped as well with the passing of Nafta.

The Taliban is an Afghan political party. If we are going to name political parties terrorists, why don't we start with the Republicans.

The taliban blows things up, kills those who oppose them, beat women who have the audacity to show any skin, refuse to allow women to go to school, drive or a thousand other things. Comparing them to the republican party is disgusting and insulting.

joemike - Sorry but the truth hurts! Dumb down has worked on you.

joemike. Yes, it is harsh but the GOPTP blackmails, threatens to shut down government, nearly allowed the country to default, caused the credit downgrade, refused to pass jobs legislation and in general is holding the American people and the economy hostage for one reason (in their own words): defeat President Obama, make him a one-term president. The GOPTP ideologies in many ways are equally as dangerous. The right has repeatedly and continually called President Obama a Nazi, Hitler, fascist, communist, Muslim, terrorist--is that any less disgusting?

but joemike......the Teapublicans want to control womens private parts!

I'd say that's pretty disgusting and insulting!

Amused, I've not been dumbed down, I've just not lost my senses of ethics, perspective, rationality, fairness, justice, and intelligence as have you, Jody and chilled. The problem with newsvine is that people like the three of you do everything you can to stifle intelligent, rationale thoughtful commentary so that you can spew anger, hate and dissention. Adults occasionally try to have conversations on this blog and you add nothing to those discussions.

joemike - Stifled! An offhand remark sets you off. Dumbed down in your case is a compliment.

It is amazing how liberals are willing to spin anything that happens to suit their purpose. They won't allow a judge to post the Ten Commandments in his court room because they are offended and don't want to support it with their tax dollars yet when those of use that are offended by abortion and don't want to support it with our tax dollars we are suddenly unfeeling at best and villainized.

Nobody is trying to take away women's reproductive rights, we just don't don't want to pay for something we disagree with. Why is that ok for liberals but not ok for conservatives?

Rick: "Nobody is trying to take away women's reproductive rights,"

You obviously need to pay closer attention to anti-abortion politics in this country.

Have you ever had an original thought Ben? Are you even capable of debate on your own ideas? We can read this drivel on the original sites. Quite wasting space. Just post the link if you must. But you're wasting people's time with the constant cutting and pasting of whole articles especially since the content has nothing to do with the subject of the article this vine is referencing.

mw, what are you talking about? the quote tells you why Obama should have not been supported the first time around. wtf? over

d g m t p - The POTUS won far and square in 2008 and will be re-elected in 2012. Get over it!

So dontgiveme Obama not being supported for what raising the debt ceiling? For someone who thinks they are so smart with their censored news, you are not very clear.

You take one line out of a speech Ben and twist it with the increase in the debt lie trying to forget that bush left the wars off the debt and the Bush war debt got added after Obama became president saying that he (President Obama) thought it dishonest to keep such a large amount off the debt. It is such a popular lie with the censored news crowd, they believe it anew every-time they hear it.

Even though it was bush's war debt that increased Obama's debt on paper due to the date it was added, republicans love to repeat the lie over and over. If you are not quite bright you will come on here and post the same lie again. That is when you know you have an avid faux viewer with no orginal thoughts.

Americans First-3238795

That is an outright lie. Bush did not leave the wars off the debt.

Excuse me, watt75, but you're only about a 20. President Obama has focused on jobs, dozens of job creating pieces of legislation passed the House from 2009 through 2010, ask the GOP Senators why they filibustered them all. In 2010 the GOPTP promised jobs, jobs, jobs--the House has yet to pass a single piece of jobs legislation.

Perry has the welfare folks scared to death. Don't worry haggard - your free cheese will be in the mail.

Says the guy who can't spell dumber

If Palin runs for President , Perry and Palin will be fierce rivals.

If Palin doesnt run, she may well endorse Perry.

Bob: from your mouth to god's ear. There will be no more sure fire a way for Obama to win the white house than to have those two bible thumping morons scare off intelligent people everywhere, no matter what political party they may be from. Perry is the absolute best news for the Democratic party all year. He simply can not win a national election (which is why mainstream Republicans are beating the walls to try and find ANY viable candidate who isn't romney.)

Well, Mark, if you get your pay check from the public sector, you view Perry as a threat to your comfortable unionized position with no heavy lifting and huge pension; private sector taxpayers are just cows to be milked. Educated, or just greedy?

Obama won in 2008 based 99% on charisma-over-substance.

Bob - Are you aware that public sector employees pay taxes? Or does Foxhole News deny that and you just suck up the slop they serve to you? Uneducated or just stupid?

Pfeh.

Why keep it all to a single party?

Hillary/Paul 2012!

That's a winning ticket. :D

Bob,

You presume a great deal. No unions for me and my paycheck comes as far from the public sector as can be. I work ridiculous hours to not only assure my job, but also for the six people I am directly responsible for. My profession is struggling to survive. Pension? What is that?

I would favor a Republican candidate but none of them so far with the exception of Mr. Huntsman make any sense.

daryl,

If Bob/ Spanky/ Angrybizowner are indeed one and the same, the three posting styles are consistently unique enough to make theoretical BobSpankyAngry a pretty good writer. Cheers!

As long as Mr. Huntsman (and any candidate for that matter) keeps their religion out of the spotlight I really do not care how many voices his prophet claims to hear. One of my major objections to Mr. Perry and Ms. Bachmann is they way they make their brand of religion integral to their platform.

If Bob/ Spanky/ Angrybizowner are indeed one and the same,

Let me interject for a moment - they are in fact separate anomalies.

Having been on First Read for over 3 years, I have watched their evolution.

There is a group of posters (who used to roam freely as the Chewowa Gang), since the format change last year they reincarnated themselves under new monikers.

Also included in the new & improved 'gang' is JoAnnaSmith1 - dangerfield, mixed bag.

As Mark & Daryl pointed out - they are easy to spot because the writing style is exactly the same!

Anyway hope this helps... bottom line is they've all graduated with honors from the Karl Rove College of Trolling! ;o)

PS: Angrybiz owner is a rereg of frostyinalaska, allwaysfaithful, lets dance etc. He keeps getting banned from the board...

If I sported a long mustache I would now be twisting the ends of it whilst saying in sotto voce "verrrry interresting, verrry interrresting indeed......"

"verrrry interresting, verrry interrresting indeed......"

LMAO!

If you want First Read history - I'm the girl to go to... ;o)

@Bob-1887910

Just curious...are you really this stupid or just malicious? Huge pension? You are truly a jackass...or incrediibly poorly informed...either crack a book or get medication

Sayitaintso: "I'd like to see the data behind this poll".

Well, you can do so by clicking on the link in the article, but don't expect it to help much. I've seen some pretty fluky-looking tables in my 40+ years of of working in opinion research, but the ones linked to above on the question of re-nominating President Obama may be about the goofiest ones ever.

According to the cross-tab percentages, it looks like the question was only asked of White Democrats aged 50 and over in the South! There are percentages shown for Men Vs. Women, College educated vs. No College, Income Over vs. Under $50,000, etc. - even for Liberal vs. moderate Democrats - but the percentages shown in the tables for Non-whites, 18-34 and 35-49 year-olds, and those living in the Northeast, Midwest and West are all shown as "N/A", which in this business either means Not answered or Non-applicable.

Domenico, could you or someone else please look at these tables and tell me what I'm missing?

P.S. - The other interesting note is the "by comparison" question regarding the loyalty of the President's base. While "only" 72% of Democrats supposedly think President Obama should be re-nominated, when the same question was asked in 1994 about President Clinton, the results were as follows:

"Do you think the Democratic party should re-nominate Bill Clinton as
the party’s candidate in 1996 or do you think the Democratic party should nominate a different
candidate for President in 1996?"

Nov. 9-10, 1994

Renominate Clinton - 57%
Different candidate - 32%

No Opinion - 11%

I'd say that 57% is a much bigger "slippage" - and this was even way before the Lewinsky scandal, yet Clinton easily won re-election.

Okay, enough poll dancing for one day - this one is giving me a headache!

Jose Gonzalez......I would like some first hand Texas feedback as to what Gov.Perry has done to be as damaging as you claim. Texas, if what I read is correct, has strong positive job growth due in part to his policies.

fireguy-2858597

Jose Gonzalez......I would like some first hand Texas feedback as to what Gov.Perry has done to be as damaging as you claim. Texas, if what I read is correct, has strong positive job growth due in part to his policies.

Do your research and don't sit around waiting for someone else to tell you about the reason's for why Texas is doing better than the rest of America. Become a SELF INFORMED voters. Stay away from the SHINY OBJECT of the moment.

More than anything become engaged, energized and alert. Politics is not a spectator sport and voters shouldn't think that reading handbills, watching television ads, or listening to speeches are a suitable substitute for research, comprehension and understanding which are all necessary in order to make an informed choice about the person who you will vote to represent you and/or lead you.

Are you from Texas fireguy-#'s?

Seems to me a lot of those jobs Perry takes credit for are government jobs and that the stimulus funds were used to fund them and other jobs in the private sector. Seems Perry is taking credit for something the Obama administration did. LOL!!! I don't want your damn stimulus funds with this palm up and with this palm down give me the money. What a hypocrite! And he thinks he can run on this flip flop and no one will notice???

Slick Rick avoids cooperating with the Open Records Act , Freedom of Information, etc.
In his view the public has NO right to know what he's doing, or has done.
"Perry has woven shroud of secrecy as Texas governor"....very interesting
The San Antonio Express News and the Houston Chronical have filed lawsuits......

http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/08/email-purges-withheld-documents-shroud-governors-office-from-public-scrutiny/

Sayitan'tSo628660......... Thanks for the pep talk, buddy. No I am a Republican from Virginia. I recieve information that conflicts (politics, imagine that?) and the question I posed to Jose was only a chance to get a firsthand (presumably left-leaning) point of view but not to be taken necessarily as gospil. I'm not that naive . But thanks for your concern.......I did notice that there was no response from Jose.

Over the last decade, the majority of Texas jobs created were in the PUBLIC sector. The private sector actually contracted, like elsewhere. Now personally, I don't see anything wrong with Texas getting the third highest amount of stimulus money for instance...it's a big state. What I do object to is the Governor insisting that didn't happen, because it's just absurd. He didn't turn it AWAY. You do have to take a look at the Texas Perry record and ask yourself why the rest of the country would want to emulate it (the lowest number of high school graduates in the country, the lowest number of college graduates in the country, and the highest number of minimum wage and sub minimum wage workers in the country--and least surprisingly--the highest number of uninsured citizens and I say citizens, not illegals.)

And the answer on Perry is a resounding NO!!!!!

If Obama and Carter can do it, it can't be to difficult.

That's funny, daryl.....

.........but of course there is that lawyer friend of Cheney that Cheney himself shot in the face while hunting!

Can you name the Presidents since Dwight Eisenhower that have not used a teleprompter?

Can you name the Presidents since Dwight Eisenhower that have not used a teleprompter?

"W"? lol

The truth is every president since Dwight D. Eisenhower has used teleprompters.

However, President W. Bush had a problem with them. "David Letterman clip "Teleprompter vs. No Teleprompter" juxtaposed video clips of Mr. Obama speaking eloquently and former President George W. Bush stumbling over his words."

Number one, you can't be an independent and a Republican, dopehead! You are one of the other! Number two, what does Tricky Ricky have to do at all with Obama's speech? I don't get the comparison?

What? are you saying Obama's not a good or fair President because he didn't let the apointee speak? Maybe, they were on a time constraint! I don't get your drift!???? Does anybody else get what Mr. Independent Republican is trying to say?

What's your point?Is this the first time you've ever seen an appointee? They say thanks and that's it. He's going through confirmation and will not be saying anything in public until he's confirmed.

That flaming liberal outlet, the Wall Street Journal, had this, "The nomination was mostly lauded by economists across the political spectrum. Among conservatives who voiced support were Republican Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who advised Sen. John McCain's campaign in 2008, and Gregory Mankiw, a Harvard University economist who chaired the CEA during the administration of former President George W. Bush.

Sharong61... learn how to READ. His username is NOT "Independent Republican"... it's Independent REPUBLIC of Texas. Good grief.

maybe if they drop the anti-science, racism, re-writing history, combining church and state, etc ... people will actually listen to them. I mean, really - if you get some real candidates that concentrate on the real issues without all that baggage, maybe we'll get some decent debates about how to really fix the problems..

Madison - Do you mean fiscally cornservitude like that exhibited by the Bush admin. - credit card government? Forgotten already? Why am I not surprised? ADD, amenesia, or both?

Madison: you mean you are NOT for any of the Republican candidates who would control every private and personal decision of Americans (whom they marry, whether they can seek safe, legal abortions, whether they will be mandated to teach their bibles as "science") You mean that kind of "controlling every facet" of our lives? Oh, right. I'm guessing by your previous posts THOSE things are NOT on your objectionable list of things you don't want the government controlling.

No, I would suspect that Madison is not for any of the democrats that want into every aspect of our lives telling us who to like and what to think. Those that are for wholesale murder of children, reckless and permissive sex, liberal interpretations of the constitution to suit their purposes and the sell out of our country to foreigners.

And I almost forgot those that intend to establish their church of technology as our official religion.

Rick: "any of the democrats that want into every aspect of our lives telling us who to like and what to think. Those that are for wholesale murder of children, reckless and permissive sex,"

Uhhhhhhh... I hate to break it to you, but it's not the Democrats who want to control our lives in that regard. Democrats are typically in favor of keeping the government OUT of the bedroom and OUT of women's reproductive choices.

But keep deluding yourself, I'm sure it will get you far.

Maybe you should stop drinking the liberal kool aide Ash. Men have been trying to get women to drop their pants for a very, very long time. Now the democrats have accomplished that and calling it sexual freedom. And why do you think they call it planned parent hood? Because the democrats want to plan our population by encouraging women not to have babies.

Besides, why can't I spin that the democrats are doing in order to further my agenda? AP-1414066 did exactly the same thing. I guess what you are saying is that the end justifies the means.

Why can't the democrats run on their achievements instead of demagoging the Republicans?

Rick: "Besides, why can't I spin that the democrats are doing in order to further my agenda? AP-1414066 did exactly the same thing. I guess what you are saying is that the end justifies the means."

No, what I am saying is that AP is stating facts and you are doing the opposite.

Here's a Democratic achievement for you: the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell (along with the bigoted section of the UCMJ that necessitated it). You know, that little achievement that means that what a service member prefers to do in their own bedroom is no longer of any concern to the US Military?

The republicans do not want to control every aspect of your life. In fact republicans want the government out of our lives. Whether abortions are legal or not is not presently the issue but who will pay for them. As far as who you marry, I personally don't really care as long as you don't try and force me to perform a marriage that I disagree with which is exactly what you liberals are doing. I went to public school from 1956 to 1968 and no one in public education tried to force their religion on me and horrors of horrors I was even taught evolution. And trust me the deep south was a lot more conservative than what you see now. In a small town of about 2000 people we even had homosexuals that did not try all that hard to hide it and they somehow managed to not only survive but even thrived.

Why was don't ask, don't tell not working. I don't go around telling everybody that I have sex in the missionary position with the woman I married in a Baptist Church. Why should it be any different with a homosexual? The reason is that you liberals want to force your beliefs down our throats, you seem to think you can legislate morality and enforce it with the pc police. So I don't see any difference in you and your criticism of the repbulicans.

Rick: "Whether abortions are legal or not is not presently the issue but who will pay for them. As far as who you marry, I personally don't really care as long as you don't try and force me to perform a marriage that I disagree with which is exactly what you liberals are doing."

Your personal beliefs are great, but if you think the GOP as a whole isn't anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage, you're living under a rock.

Quote me one piece of liberal legislation that proposes to force anti-gay churches to perform gay weddings.

Rick: "The reason is that you liberals want to force your beliefs down our throats,"

How? Again, what legislation is on the table anywhere to force you to stop believing whatever you want about homosexuals?

I'll be honest, your persecution complex is pretty sickening.

First off you couldn't be honest if your life depended on it. As far as my persecution, too bad I'm not homosexual or some other minority. There would be a law against it.

The bottom line is that I did not stretch the truth anymore than the other poster and I don't have that much trouble with him posting his opinion. What I do have a problem with is you lotus eaters passing it off as gospel. In the 60s and 70s I considered myself a liberal because I took a live and let live position. Now the only difference I see between people like you and the right wing extremists of my time is that you are coming from the opposite direction. If I didn't like there methods of pushing their philosophy then what in the hell makes you think I should like you using their methods to push yours.

You all are completely clueless.

Rick: "The bottom line is that I did not stretch the truth anymore than the other poster"

Except that you did. To state that social liberals are trying to "force" you to do anything, or that social conservatives are not, is a blatant lie. You're just afraid of losing the right to treat other people like crap for being different. Cry more.

@Fire-#16: Yeah sure. You know any?

They already did WeldDem. We call him President Obama. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian or Rosicrucian we need a leader in the White House. The man in there now is just not hacking it.

Take a look at the Repugs list of candudates. Nuff said. Rock-head bottoms to be sure.

I like Real Clear Politics because they use an average of several polls and they ususally use a high as well as a low number on both responses.

Hey! It got Obama elected.

"Libralism is Dying" only in the Independent Republic of Texas....so please secede and put yourself out of your misery.

60% of your bible thumping right wing minions are on welfare and still in the closet. Squeal boy!

"Looks, like we got us a sow instead of a boar!" "Drop them panties, boy!"