“Former Vice President Dick Cheney says in a new memoir that he urged President George W. Bush to bomb a suspected Syrian nuclear reactor site in June 2007.

Afghanistan & Iraq wasn't enough to satisfy Dicks blood lust?

Good to see he's climbed out of his crypt to 'plug himself in' - karma really is a b!tch!

Mort Zuckerman, chairman and editor in chief of U.S. News & World Report, and a big Obama supporter has a scathing op-ed piece in today’s WSJ. A few excerpts:

1. The rising impatience with the leadership of President Obama was epitomized on Aug. 8 in the middle of one of the now-habitual Wall Street roller coasters. His speech on the economy was 53 minutes late. What showed on TV screens was an empty White House podium, an image suggestive of the absence of leadership. When the president did speak, the best he could come up with was "We've always been and always will be a triple-A country." The market's response was a Bronx cheer, a drop of another 300 points.

2. Fewer Americans are working full-time today than when Mr. Obama took office. We have lost over 900,000 full-time jobs in the last four months alone, and long-term unemployment is at a post-World War II high. The public's faith in his ability to deal with the economy has plunged.

3. Since the president is the one who represents all of America and all Americans, the buck stops with him rather than with the Congress. It is the president's job to offer a coherent program for the twin threats of a static economy and an unsustainable explosion of our debts and deficits.

4. He made the politically tested and calculated statement that if you raise taxes on billionaires and millionaires you could solve the problem. This is not so. Even for those who support higher taxes on the wealthy, as I do, we must remember that we have an income tax system in which fully half the "taxpayers" pay no tax at all, and n which the variety of loopholes cries out for a real reform of the tax code. Even if the government instituted a 100% tax on both corporate profits and personal incomes above $250,000 per year, it would yield enough revenue to run the government for only six months. Why? Because under Mr. Obama's presidency, government spending has swelled to 24% of GDP from 18%.

5. The teleprompter he almost always uses symbolizes and compounds his emotional distance from his audience.

6. The final sentence: Like many Americans who supported him, I long for a triple-A president to run a triple-A country.

OUCH!!!!

there’s an increasingly likelihood that the GOP nomination fight won't mathematically end until May or June

AWESOME!

Won't leave what ever right wing extremist candidate they nominate much time to pivot back to center! ;o)

There's a reason Gov.Krispy Creme, Jeb Bush and the rest are holding onto their dance card; they know there's NO way the Teapublicans are going to beat President Obama!

Good Morning Feisty

GF, if you thought yesterday was crazy this video is even crazier. When you get a chance check it out. It's about 9 minutes. However, if you just watch the beginning it will crack you up.

Craziest Town Hall Ever

The Enemy- In- Chief

You gotta laff

http://www.osborneink.com/

Obama in 2012.

Glad to see you, Navy and Feisty, up early and spreading the truth.

Navy, similar to yesterday's exchange, your post sets a framework to repeat something I wrote a while ago. In fact, I have to make two posts to cover the subjects. No. 1 is an examination of the ideology Perry seems to embrace, and how badly that ideology has failed the country and the world already. No. 2 is a partial program proposal that takes off from your comments - in something of a different direction. And let it be clear to all - this is my work, available also from my 'Vine homepage, and neither Navy nor I planned any of this in coordination.

“Tear It Down and Start over” –
But the Tea Party’s Methods Are Proven Disasters –
WHY Try It in America?

Tea Party followers in Wisconsin, at a rally Monday evening (Aug. 8), cheered the downgrade of U.S. bond ratings and the massive drop in the Dow Jones average earlier in the day. To the right-wing economic fundamentalists, “tear it down and start over” is an honored principle, and thus seeing a government and economic system they despise struggling, the cheers make perfectly good sense.

While not all adherents to the Tea Party movement have been motivated by the economic doctrines as articulated by Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics, or the radical positions long advocated by Grover Norquist’s Americans for Tax Reform, or the Heritage Foundation and the Club for Growth, a hard central core of the movement is absolutely wedded to those positions.

Critics of the Tea Party movement cry dire warnings if the right-wing agenda were to take full shape. For its part, the Tea Party and conservatives generally reply that the warnings are “fear mongering.”

The conservative answer is that the economy would rapidly improve, and jobs flourish, if only the country adopted a form of “pure capitalism,” including:

ü eliminating government interference in
markets,

ü downsizing government size and spending,

ü sharply reducing taxes, eliminating public
debt and balancing the Federal budget,

ü privatizing anything now done by government
that a corporation could operate more efficiently, and

ü “freeing” workers to be more competitive and
mobile by stripping all outside obstructions between employers and employees.

Those five points cover a great deal of actual territory, of course. But they accurately describe what various states, now governed by Tea Party governors and lawmakers, have been doing.

The actual events have included limiting or eliminating unions’ power, proposals to eliminate minimum wage and child labor laws, privatizing public education, selling or leasing public infrastructure to private interests, closing or sharply cutting funding and staffing of regulatory agencies, cutting public payrolls, and much more.

Ostensibly, economic distress underlies the states’ actions. Most states’ constitutions require balanced annual budgets, or there are statutes to require that. The conservatives point to the example of the states, and call for a comparable approach to the national government in all respects.

However, the description of an ideal economy and government is not the kind of “paradise” the conservatives idealize – because it will not become reality, and never has existed. In fact, there have been many attempts at creating exactly such an idealized condition, all complete and horrifying failures – except for a very small group that became fabulously wealthy, powerful to the point of absolutism, and ultimately corrupted thoroughly.

And what the Tea Party seeks has also already failed entirely in the United
States.

30 Years of Failure in the U.S. and a Global Recession

The United States has been something of a “laboratory” for the Friedman – Chicago School since at least the Reagan Administration. Some writers, such as Thomas Frank, claim that the effort to implement the social and economic philosophy in the U.S. dates back much further (see The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Ruined Government, Enriched Themselves, and Beggared America, ISBN 0805090908). Frank, by the way, does not discuss the Friedman perspective too much – he instead addresses the strategies and tactics employed by conservative operatives including Jack Abramoff and Grover Norquist to link corporations and the state in almost exactly the way that the Tea Party idealizes today.

Nonetheless, as other analyses have shown, the Friedman principle has been in effect, if somewhat imperfectly according to its “purist” adherents, since 1981. Only the pesky resistance of political opponents and unfortunate economic problems prevented the complete program from taking full root.

Among the problems were two recessions during the Reagan Administration, the 1988 stock market crash, a successive series of corporate scandals including the savings and loan debacle, the Enron mess, the Worldcom mess, the dot-com bubble and subsequent recession, and the 9/11 terror attack and subsequent recession, to name but a few. And, of course, the Reagan Administration did not reduce deficits and debt as the Friedman principles require – quite the opposite, in fact. (Similarly, the second Bush Administration also preferred extremely high loads of deficit and debt to the more austere aspect of Friedman’s program.)

Even so, some of the key Friedman principles were implemented – most especially effective deregulation, not only of the insurance, investment banking and commercial banking sectors, but also energy, transportation, thrift (the savings and loan sector), workplace safety, environmental protection, major aspects of labor relations, natural resources production (forestry, mining, oil and gas), and still more.

In addition, although the Reagan Administration was forced to reverse its early sharp tax cuts with a series of tax increases, as was the first Bush Administration, major tax incentives dramatically altered corporate finance and governance. Changes to capital gains levies encouraged a shift of business management focus from long-term stability and steady business growth to a quarter-by-quarter performance standard – and, at the same time, created the “day trader” phenomenon in the stock market.

That simple change in tax policy led to the breakup of corporations to generate “shareholder value,” incredible bonuses and benefits to corporate executives, and a sharp squeeze on the labor market to reduce or limit growth in wages.

The Reagan Administration also encouraged globalization of American business, removing barriers for transferring production to other regions and creating incentives to do so. And by deregulating the process of mergers and acquisitions, another Friedman principle, the Administration launched a massive shift in the business landscape. By the end of the Reagan years, America had substantially become de-industrialized.

In the Clinton Administration, some of the same process continued. The crowning moment for Friedman followers occurred when Sen. Phil Gramm engineered the merger of Citicorp with financial conglomerate The Travelers Group – in violation of the Glass-Steagall Act. But the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, known as the Financial Services Modernization Act, was handily ready. By presenting the Clinton Administration with the fait accompli of the illegal merger, Gramm ensured the bill would be approved and signed. It was a masterstroke of manipulation to fulfill a Friedman goal, and the result was almost complete deregulation of the finance and banking sectors.

Matt Taibbi, in Griftopia: Bubble Machines, Vampire Squids and the Long Con That Is Breaking America (ISBN 0385529953), takes the tale of the bank merger forward, showing how Friedman principles were followed to virtually abolish all oversight of mortgage lending, capital markets, business insurance, and other factors that had “inhibited” the free flow of financial products and capital in U.S. and global markets. The idea that markets would be “self-regulating” underlay the philosophy – a point that Tea Party advocates espouse today.

The second Bush Administration enthusiastically embraced the approach and built a very close relationship with the leaders of the major banking and investment capital companies. That ensured that the firms were allowed free rein in their business without bothersome interference from government.

The cumulative effect of following Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics philosophy for 30 years in the U.S., the ideology of Tea Party advocates now, was the global economic collapse.

Nope – Poor People Didn’t Cause the Problem Today, Either

Conservatives attempt to re-write history and blame a worldwide, $14 trillion meltdown on unwise lending to poor people who couldn’t afford their mortgages – they point to the Community Reinvestment Act as the evil root of the entire collapse.

Unfortunately, this argument is completely false.

The 1977 law aimed at the practice of “redlining,” a technique used by banks and other businesses to either completely refuse lending, or offer loans at excessive rates, in poor neighborhoods. The law, however, mandated sound lending practices, and a study has shown that default rates in CRA loans were within predictable and historical ranges. The lending practices did not produce the 2007-2009 Great Recession.

Rather than argue the point, however, there is another way to see whether the Friedman philosophy has been successful and offers a basis for reforming American government, economics, and society. Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics were directly involved in such revolutions in Latin America – Chile, Argentina, Ecuador and Brazil. In all cases, the entire approach to laissez faire capitalism was enthusiastically and wholly implemented.

So what was the success rate? In a word, dismal.

The Shock Therapy of the Tea Party Has Been Tried Elsewhere
– and Created a Horror Show

The “tear it down and start over” Friedman method failed in every possible aspect – social, political and economic. It wrecked untold millions of lives, cost hundreds of lives directly, and destroyed stable, progressive, developing nations. And that is what the Tea Party advocates for the United States?

The entire sordid story, a tale of upheaval, oppression, genocide, and corporate looting of half a continent, is told in unrelenting detail by Naomi Klein in The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism (ISBN 0312427999).

The first field of operations was in Chile, where using the excuse – later shown to be completely false – that socialist President Salvador Allende intended to turn the nation into a Communist state, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and a cabal of corporations engineered a military coup. Chile at the time was a relatively prosperous nation with a sizeable middle class and an extremely low poverty rate.

Significantly, the Chilean coup took place on 9/11 – of 1973. Even before the actual revolution, a major plan for reforming the nation along line of the Friedman philosophy had been compiled and put on every Chilean general’s desk (Klein, P. 96). While brutally killing thousands to silence dissent in a reign of terror, coup leader Gen. Augusto Pinochet also faithfully followed the Friedman program. From the outset, it failed (Klein, pp. 97, 101).

Eventually in March, 1975, Pinochet welcomed Milton Friedman personally in Santiago, Chile. The economist literally took over managing the nation’s economy – and failed. Soon more than half the nation was in poverty, inflation was rampant, public resources had been sold to a group of American companies, and the once-flowering country of Chile was on its way to more than three decades of bloody misery.

The scenario was essentially repeated in Argentina, Brazil, and Ecuador. The master handbook created for Chile was employed in almost identical fashion. And the results were largely the same.

The economic and political agenda of the Tea Party and conservatives in America has been tried, repeatedly. It has never worked. It is a prescription for disaster.

A Day After Earthquake

Yup, We said the right would find a way to blame the President for the earthquake. Guess what? They did it.

Blaming President Obama is FOX de jour 24/7. If the President wasn't out golfing he might have been able to stop the earthquake. An earthquake!!! How FOX thought he should have done something to stop it is beyond belief. Maybe, if the President would have had the animals on his vacation the earthquake could have been prevented; right?

Up to around 15 minutes before the 5.8 magnitude earthquake rattle across the nation's capital and much of New England, a variety of animals began exhibiting unusual behavior which seemed to indicate some foreknowledge of the tremor -- typically considered one of the least predictable, and therefor often deadliest, form of natural disaster.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/08/national-zoo-animals-went-berserk-before-earthquake.php

Right-wing media attacked President Obama for happening to be on a golf course at Martha's Vineyard when a magnitude 5.8 earthquake rattled much of the East Coast. From attacking Obama over such things as putting Dijon mustard on a burger to using environmentally friendly eggs at the White House Easter Egg Roll, the right-wing media have a long history of these absurd attacks.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201108240017

Definitely OBS (Obama Derangement Syndrome)!!!

I give this one 2 thumbs down.

Bev, that was an incredible clip! Thanks!

Now, here's No. 2:

In a very short time, the issue of the national debt, the budget deficits, and presumably a real budget for 2011-2012 will be back before Congress. As long as the rabid unelected masters of the right wing, folk such as Grover Norquist and the Heritage Foundation, among others, are excluded from the process, it may be possible to sanely deal with the issues without yet another conservative-manufactured "crisis."

One of the leading issues is changing so-called "entitlements," Social Security and Medicare. "Entitlements" is actually a pejorative that suggests people are getting something for free from the taxpayers. That, of course, is false. The public has paid into trust funds for these programs and have earned the right to the benefits - but some on the right deny an obligation to either Social Security or Medicare.

The reason for concern is that since the 1960's, the Treasury has been borrowing from the programs' trust funds, and as older persons are replaced with fewer younger workers, the revenues coming to the programs dwindles. But repaying the trillions owed to these funds would guarantee their solvency. And there are ways to honor that obligation.

First, isolate that portion of the debt incurred to pay for the last decade of wars. Take the example of Great Britain at the time of the American Revolution, when that country ran up a war debt proportionately larger than that the U.S. has incurred since 2002. A "sinking fund" dedicated specifically to retiring that debt was created and while it took the U.K. many decades to ultimately retire the debt - in part because only 10 years later the U.K. was back at war on the Continent for another 25 years - it did so and preserved its credit rating and low interest reuirements.

Today the U.S. would have to establish a specific set-aside levy to fund and sustain this debt-reduction account. And it probably would be a major part of tax reforms that include added revenues from corporations that today pay NOTHING in U.S. taxes as well as a portion of any upper-level marginal rate increase on the top 2% of individuals.

And note that a substantial share of the debt involved came from "loans" made out of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds.

Some readjustment of tax policies affecting mainly middle-class households is inevitable. The right often repeats a remark about nearly half of the country's household paying "no taxes" - marginally factual, but actually disingenuous. Here's a bit of what Politifact.com said about that remark:

Estimates by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center project that for tax year 2011, 46.4 percent of households won’t have any income tax liability. However, of this number, 28.3 percent will pay payroll taxes, the center projects. Of the remaining 18.1 percent with neither income nor payroll tax liability, 10.3 percent are elderly and 6.9 percent are not elderly but have incomes lower than $20,000. In other words, all but a tiny sliver of Americans without either income tax or payroll tax liability are either elderly or poor.

According to economist Joseph Stiglitz, the reduced paryoll tax and the cuts for the wealthiest Americans have not significantly affected the economy. He reports that the money has gone into savings, after the shock of the 2008 collapse. That money has not circulated to help stimulate the economy, as hoped. Part of "tax reform" should eliminate both reductions - the so-called Bush tax cuts, and the reduction of the payroll tax.

In addition, some changes in the tax codes will have to eliminate some of the deductions, or reduce them, that all taxpayers now enjoy. The mortgage deduction is a lalusible target - not necessarily for elimination, but modification. Mortgage deductions should be revised to occur on a sliding scale - say, below $100,000 outstanding mortage, no change; above that amount a graduated scale that ultimately eliminates the deduction entirely for mortgages above, say $350,000. A few years ago that would have included far more taxpayers than it will today. This sort of change is reduction of a "tax expenditure" rather than a tax incease.

U.S. tax codes now allow corporations to "offshore" their earnings and pay no taxes at all on them. Google, for example, is hiding literally billions by doing its banking in Ireland. This is a practice that must be eliminated.

One of the most scandalous aspects of the tax code is how it encourages outrageous compensation packages and bonuses for corporate executives, bankers and stock traders, and others. Realigning capital gains levies as well as levies on excessive compensation packages will go far to end that scandal, and promote much healthier management of businesses.

And eventually, the U.S. is going to return to economic recovery. In fact, cutting spending that stimulates the economy is an appalling concept. But if in the same situation as a national concern over debt and deficit the country chooses to invest in the economy and promote job growth along with economic growth - and yes, it is proven that such measures work, despite the falsehoods some put out - then that investment should be recaptured in the course of recovery. Much like the "sinking fund" for war debt, a special account in the Treasury should be set aside specifically to retire stimulus debt. A set-aside of increased revenues generated by recovery is one means of doing so.

It is quite possible to attack the nation's deficits and debt, intelligently, over time. But someone has to kick Grover Norquist and the Heritage Foundation, among others, out of the conference room where the effort is put together.

For additional discussion of debt and deficits, see the following article:

http://langewinckler.newsvine.com/_news/2011/05/16/6654905-russian-roulette-saner-than-gop-debt-stand

Bev,

So true. They go after our President for anything and everything.

So Feisty, now you are hoping a tight Primary schedule and the Calendar can keep your man in office. Smacks of desperation to me.

But, not as desperate as Navy, John A and Bev's cut and pastes have gotten. Geez, if you are going to copy a 12 inch article as a post, do it further down the board. It's just going to end up getting collapsed because:

1. it's way to long

2. If I want to read it I'll go to think progress.

How about you try this. Provide a link with a short summary and your take on the info. It is what you say, in your own words that will drive people to the link.

Once again, try an original thought other than "Great post" or "we're on the same page today!"

Definitely OBS (Obama Derangement Syndrome)!!!

Of which there is NO known cure - see the NJ nut job, the idiot in Albany & smiffy...

PS: Morning GF! That was quite the attack janet #'s launched at you last night (just saw it) - loved your line about the 911 call! lmao!

So Feisty, now you are hoping a tight Primary schedule and the Calendar can keep your man in office. Smacks of desperation to me.

Not at all - what REALLY 'smacks' of desperation is you felt it necessary to comment on it! ;o)

Geez, Navy, if you are going to copy a 12 inch article as a post, do it further down the board. It's just going to end up getting collapsed because:

I wasn't aware you were promoted to moderator - Congrats!

Perry leading the field? Shows just how low they can go. I'm enjoying the show so far, and can't wait for the debate to show more of their true colors. Bachmann is toast, as she should be, and Sarah is still teasing her gang with maybe's, just her continuing effort to raise more money as she becomes history. They can't even drag any more people in to run, because their extreme agenda's even scare what few "sane" Repubs who are left. I'm probaly going to gain 5 pounds eating all that buttered popcorn, with my trusty Capt. Morgan at my side.

Pres. Obama, it's way past time for you to put a really good jobs bill in their faces, and make them vote on it. We will back you up, if you stand up!

JiA: 6. The final sentence: Like many Americans who supported him, I long for a triple-A president to run a triple-A country.

Brutal.

There just isn't any good economic news for Obama to get any leverage on. If his Midwest romp through the corn fields last week was any indication, he's going to attempt to run against Congress in 2012. Good luck with that, seeing his party is the majority for half of it.

Obama came into office all triple-A, you know, full of the Hope and full of the Change. When he leaves in 2013 he will have been downgraded to junk.

GOP Special Victims Unit

With climate change, joblessness and the other ravages of late predatory capitalism corruption is rife such that plutocracy appears somebody left the gate to hell wide open.

Again the Tea- NUTS are out in full force making obstructions. This time it's the lush and Grimm Weeper of the House and John Bohenor and wanna be House Speaker Tea -NUT Eric Cantor.

John Bohenor had the unmitigated gall to ask PRESIDENT OBAMA where are the jobs? This what he said-- Speaking in his southwest Ohio home district hours after a bleak federal report on employment was released, Boehner said that it looked a lot like the reports every month under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus plan. ... 'This coming election is about one issue: jobs,' he said. 'It's about jobs that were promised to the American people by the current administration, and were never delivered.'

http://www.johnboehner.com/blog/coverage-boehners-speech-coming-election-about-one-issue-jobs?p=1549

Do the math, Mr. Cantor: Two wars that the Defense Department estimates cost taxpayers $9.7 billion per month, roughly the size of the Environmental Protection Agency's annual budget -- the department Cantor deplores as being part of President Obama's anti-job agenda.

Congress has allotted $1.3 trillion for defense spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, almost to a dime what the so-called Supercommittee of lawmakers is being asked to propose as cuts to the budget by Nov. 23.

And, what if the number was a bit too simplistic? At Brown University, a recent study pegged the actual cost of the two wars at $3.7 trillion, the Times Leader reported.

The Bush tax cuts? Do the math, Mr. Cantor. Recent estimates put the cost of the tax cuts at $3.7 trillion over the next 10 years and, wouldn't you know it, that is, roughly speaking, the total in spending cuts that Congress has been trying to find over the next 10 years, including the $1.2 trillion in proposals expected from the supercommittee

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Analysis/2011/08/23/Economic-Outlook-Do-the-math-Mr-Cantor/UPI-84391314106575/#ixzz1VvvHngyz

Johnnie A: Glad to see you, Navy and Feisty, up early and spreading the truth.

More like their manure. Cut and pastes from leftwing propaganda sites isn't the truth John.

Eric Cantor said he would not he would not appove emergency funding for disaster.

John Bohenor has too nerv to ask the President "Where are the J-O-B-S" ?

It has been nearly 9 moths Speakr and still no J-O-B-S"

Ask your self that!!

Navy Fraud, FYI. The Obama campaign is paying people to give them critiques for possibe Perry-bashing ads and other material. This is a sure sign the Obama campaign is afraid of Perry. This is directly from Hector Nieto, Obama's Texas campaign director. According to Nieto, submitting these critiques grants the Obama administration the rights to use the comments in any form of political advertising. In other words the comment do not have to be true or factual. You should like that because most of what you post is neither true or factual. Can't "run" on a record of accomplishments, so "run" negative ads. But somehow to people on the left, it is unfair when anyone mentions Obama's poor performance and lack of leadership. Obama is going to do exactly when he criticizes other of doing. Obama will make excuses, blame anyone and everything for his failures and then attack an opponent on a personal level. All the time calling people to be civil. It won't fly this time around. Even with the liberal media cheerleaders.

Obama is really afraid of Perry...He should be...

you keep the cut and paste going....

WCA: How about you try this. Provide a link with a short summary and your take on the info

Their ego's are too big to do something sensible like that. If you haven't noticed, some of the biggest libs with diarrhea of the fingers are now reposting long boring articles they posted months ago. They need to come up with some fresh lies, but are too lazy to do so.

Cut and pastes from leftwing propaganda sites isn't the truth John.

Someone let her out of her crate early this morning...

It's a shame she's as snarly as ever... lol

Funny thing is these supposed leftwing propganda sites sure do set their hair on fire...

Feisty, Nice to know you just can't get enough of me. I just wish your comments to my posts made a lick of sense.

As for moderator, no, I leave that to you. Based on your comments to Annirich yesterday, it seems you have the inside track on all the protocol around here. I was simply trying to help your Lib friends get their point across to more people.

See, brevity is the soul of wit and when a post takes to long to read, people will skip over it, much like they stop listening when someone gives a 10 minute answer to a yes or no question like President Obama often does.

I'm going to try to explain this simply, so maybe some, if not all, of the liberal posters on this board get it.

The twisted slant from left wing boards are as credible as the twisted slant from right wing boards.

The numbers for Texas are the numbers for Texas- Texas created 40% of the new jobs created in this economic disaster. The spike in Federal government jobs that ended in June of 2010 was due to Census workers, and every state saw a similar, temporary, spike in Federal Census workers.

The budget in Texas is balanced, as per state law.

The large(?) number of uninsured, (the question mark is there because the number varies by study- depending on the bias of the entity putting out the number), is, undisputedly, due to the high number of illegal immigrants. It's a border state, remember?

All states with balanced budget laws have made cuts across the board, including to education.

Looks like nobody is buying the spin except those who want, very much, to buy it-that would be the 26% who think Obama is doing a good job on the economy.

He's not, and no amount of spin is going to convince the overwhelming majority of people that he is doing a good job on the economy.

He's not even doing a good job of casting the blame elsewhere. Here is the problem- by blaming others for his own failures, he has only managed to convince people that he does not have a clue how to turn the economy around.

One example- the stimulous bill, which was opposed by the majority of people. Whether he now denies it or not, the majority of people remember the promises made- that, without it, unemployment would climb over 8%, but with it, unemployment would be held under 8%. Not to pile on, but the promise was also made that, by now, unemployment would be about 6%.

So, it got rammed through, it failed, despite the spin from the White House and pom pom waving liberals, and everyone KNOWS it failed. Obama,though, will not admit it failed, and proposes more of the same as a prescription for the ailing
economy. All this does is reinforce, to the public, two negatives.

First, that he is clueless on how to fix the economy.

Second, because he is using euphemisms, (investment, rather than spending. Infrastructure bank, rather than stimulous bill), that he is convinced that the public is too stupid to know what he is really saying. This is the public that got fooled once by rhetoric- they are not bloody likely to get fooled again- which is why his speeches are accompanied by depose in both daily tracking polls.

The other major initiative Obama rammed through was HCR- also opposed vehemently by the public. On that issue, he proved tone-deaf. On that issue, the public was proved correct in their opinion that it would make things worse, rather than better.

Yesterday, a study was released that showed that fully ten percent of employers plan to drop healthcare coverage when the plan is implemented- although they have no plans to increase their employees' compensation by the amount saved by dropping it.

Another twenty percent were unsure what they would do. So much for "if you like your insurance, you can keep it".

The majority of the public wants it repealed. They lump it in with the economy, as they lump the profligate spending of this administration in with the economy.

So, Obama has proven himself to be incompetent, at best, and so arrogant he completely disregards the will of the governed, at worst. No amount of liberal spin does anything whatsoever to alter that judgement. In fact, that the spin is so easily debunked weakens, rather than strengthens, the argument.

So, do go on.

Feisty:

I see WC is still trying to dictate to people what to write, how and when. Too bad WC your neo-Nazi/Fascist Party has not overthrown democracy and free speech yet. Until that day you can go pee up a rope.

Cut and pastes from leftwing propaganda sites isn't the truth John.

Straight out of the: TACTICS FOR EFFECTIVE CONSERVATIVE BLOGGING By Karl Rove

Let the blogosphere know that âTruthout.orgâ, âthinkprogress.orgâ, âthe nationâ and âmoveon.orgâ are Liberal rubbish propaganda. Discredit Liberal sources of information whenever possible.

Consistent, persistent repetition and inculcation will drive our talking points home

If they debunk your talking point, ignore it, and move on as if you didnât hear
it

Remind you of anyone around here?

I got plenty more where that come from... lol

SHOUT OUT to the friend who e-mailed me the turdblossom's manifesto - this is going to be fun! ;o)

From the bowels of our beautiful Democratic city a reblog from yesterdays news that was again broadcasted today Im watching Detroit local NBC news! They are reporting 523k in registered democratic voters! There are 507k people of voting age in the city! LMAO.......and there is nothing they can do about it until after Nov 2012! LMFAO........ They drove to homes on the list and they dont even exist!

Tony C:

Navy Fraud, FYI.....

Obama will make excuses, blame anyone and everything for his failures and then attack an opponent on a personal level. All the time calling people to be civil. It won't fly this time around. Even with the liberal media cheerleaders.

(emphasis added, just so you can't miss it)

Today's nominee for Feisty's Karl Rove trophy in the category of ironic hypocrisy.

JoAnna's tiresomely repetitive attacks on people's sources without actually calling into question the underlying facts being cited simply can't hold a candle to this.

JoAnnaSmith1

Johnnie A: Glad to see you, Navy and Feisty, up early and spreading the truth.

More like their manure. Cut and pastes from leftwing propaganda sites isn't the truth John.

LADY JoAnna S niff,

You speak like the Moonie-like spectacles Sarah Palin and crazy-eyed Michelle Bachmann; gibberish. You oughta cut and paste something MATURE and understandable.

And....since the gimme gimme gang can do it I will throw this in from Our favorite State of Wisconsin The after effects of Mr Walkers efforts!

• Lower Property Taxes- School districts across the state are indicating that their tax levies will hold steady and many, such as the Beaver Dam School District, announced lower property tax levies and mill rates. In Beaver Dam, administrators tell me the school portion of homeowners’ property tax bills will be going down a whopping 10%.

• Lower Class Sizes- Opponents of Act 10 warned of higher class sizes. We are seeing just the opposite. Many school districts, like Kaukauna, are able to hire additional teachers and greatly reduce class sizes.

• Lower Health Care Costs- Dozens of school districts across the state are saving millions of dollars because the teachers’ union insurance monopoly, WEA Trust, has been broken. Examples include Appleton’s $3.1 million in savings, Baraboo saving $660,000, and Edgerton getting $500,000 back.

• Avoiding Layoffs- We said all along that without the changes to collective bargaining, layoffs would be inevitable. For the most part, those layoffs have been avoided such as in Hustisford. West Allis called off 200 layoffs and instead gave teachers a raise.

• Merit Pay- Using the flexibility Act 10 now provides, school districts like the Menomonee Falls School District were able to institute merit pay. Raises will go to the best teachers rather than those with the most seniority.

John A & John B:

Reallygreat informative posts this morning. A lot of well documented information that proves just how dangerous the right is to democracy as we know it. I hope the people read your posts in detail and remember them for future reference as this game the TP/GOP is playing pans out.

Bev:The TP/GOP is so lost they are now officially the "Town Idiots".

AM: JoAnna's tiresomely repetitive attacks on people's sources without actually calling into question the underlying facts being cited simply can't hold a candle to this.

Good morning AM. How are you?

Your comments on the underlying facts posted in #1.29 if you please.

AM, why no post on Immelt, one of the biggest FoOs out there, (Friend of Obama), moving a one hundred fifteen year old xray plant out of Wisconsin- to China?

So, is he doing it because the cost of labor in his unionized plant is too high, or is he doing it because he wants to hurt your governor politically?

@jollyoldsoul1--

A citation would be nice so we could look more closely at your facts and avoid having JoAnna accuse you of plagiarism, which your post surely is. But whatever the source is, it looks a lot like a governor's press release or right-wing website.

Because that's not exactly the news we're hearing around here.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_4d0c0d30-cdd7-11e0-93dd-001cc4c03286.html

Recent news stories and press releases describing how some Wisconsin school districts are saving money, adding programs and hiring new staff thanks to the recently passed state budget could lead one to believe that happy days are here again for Wisconsin school districts and their financial future.

But the rosy picture proclaimed by the governor's office press releases and right-leaning interest groups like the MacIver Institute and the Education Action Group — a fierce opponent of teacher unions — does not match the depressing scenario Superintendent Bruce Quinton sees for public schools in tiny Pepin, Wisconsin.

In his rural district, which serves 249 students, the 2011-13 state budget has been nothing to celebrate. In fact, it has accelerated a difficult process of belt-tightening that's been going on for almost 20 years due to revenue controls that have limited the amount districts can increase taxes to keep up with rising costs. The revenue controls hit some schools especially hard, especially those with declining enrollment, high-needs students or high property values. The new state budget's huge reduction in overall aid for schools — $793 million over the biennium — accompanied by new limits on how much money districts can raise in property taxes to offset those losses — has, for many school districts, made a bad situation worse.

Anecdotal evidence, backed up by a recent survey The Capital Times sent to school superintendents across the state, shows that a majority of those who responded, from districts large and small, are now operating with considerably fewer teachers and other staff. Only a small percentage have increased staff, reduced class size — shown to improve student achievement — or added programs.

Many responding districts report that savings from newly imposed employee benefit contributions — 12.6 percent of health insurance premium payments and a 5.8 percent salary contribution toward their pensions — have not been sufficient to get district school budgets to balance, and have required cuts elsewhere to offset the losses in state aid. In any case, the savings of these "tools" only provides a big boost once.

By the way, there never was any teachers' union insurance "monopoly." Districts were never required to agree to put their coverage there.

There is nothing about any of this that suggests that school management will suddenly improve. And the other shoe will eventually drop:

Many responding districts report that savings from newly imposed employee benefit contributions — 12.6 percent of health insurance premium payments and a 5.8 percent salary contribution toward their pensions — have not been sufficient to get district school budgets to balance, and have required cuts elsewhere to offset the losses in state aid. In any case, the savings of these "tools" only provides a big boost once.

"After you use these tools, they are blunted for big savings in the future," Turner explains.

Turner and others predict things could get even worse next year for several reasons.

Many districts saw a huge exodus of retiring teachers this year. In many cases those retirees have not been replaced, which has provided big salary savings for the coming year, a factor unlikely to be replicated in future years.

"We lost a lot of talent, but there were savings to the bottom line," says Monona Grove School Board President Susan Fox. She says staff contributions to health insurance and pensions this year mean that employees are taking about a 10 percent cut in take-home pay, yielding more savings. While she notes that both areas contributed to balancing the 2011-2012 budget, they are one-time savings that won't help next year.

"I'm hearing that the second year of this budget is going to be extremely challenging for many school districts. In Monona Grove, we'll be at least $2 million short. It's not good. We don't know what else we can cut," she says.

Brief musical interlude.

Joanna:

Your comments on the underlying facts posted in #1.29 if you please.

Read 'em and weep, baby.

By the way, I am SO disappointed that you didn't call jollyoldsoul1 out for his open and obvious plagiarism, as you would have for any liberal blogger.

Surely, there is no double standard on plagiarism, is there JoAnna?

Anna Molly, First Navy is a fraud..I am not the only one to recognize it. Your right to "buy into" his posting name. My right to expose it. I didn't know "Navy" was my opponent. No contest. Like Harry Truman said: " I wouldn't have to get out of bed in the morning to defeat that guy, he is GD liar." Harry was talking about Nixon. Good old Harry S. We sure could use him now.

I also notice you didn't dispute the facts in Wisconsin. Walker seems to have exposed the union for what it is.

Well I see the First Read "gang of five" Lefties is busy blowing smoke again ...

Navy ...

It has been exposed that Rick Perry is a fraud

Exposure by one of your diatribes hardly fits into the category of journalist excellence.

On another Presidential and big government point ...

Just keep regulating every facet of our lives and watch the economy sputter to a standstill.

Now its regulations on goat herders ... Jeez!!!!

2012 cannot come soon enough! At this point my one-eyed dog could win!

Why is President Obama so darn unpatriotic?

However, the comedy writings and ramblings from the "gang of five" sure do lighten my day. It's sad that there are those who really think this is spreading the truth. Where? This board is hardly read except for its comedic value.

Notice that NJ presents no numbers to support her claim that TX benefited from 47% of ALL new government jobs 2007 entirely due to the census. Where are the numbers showing that government job numbers went back to pre-recession levels after the census? Without those it's just an unsupported talking point...and probably untrue.

If it were true EVERY STATE would have seen a similarly-sized spike in employment.

Anna Molly -

JoAnna's tiresomely repetitive attacks on people's sources without actually calling into question the underlying facts being cited simply can't hold a candle to this

Dead on. As I told her yesterday, since she chooses not to say anything of substance, she only detracts from the conversation.

Smiffy, as before: Put up or shut up.

AM: Brief musical interlude.

That's pretty much what your posts are AM - nothing but elevator music.

"5. The teleprompter he almost always uses symbolizes and compounds his emotional distance from his audience."

Whop- there it is!

If you want more facts on the Wisconsin education situation under Walker's budget cuts, I sincerely urge you to read this ENTIRE article, and not just a few snippets. Everyone who favors all this cutting in order to protect our "future generations" ought to be aware of exactly what sacrifices those future generations will be making today to pay for all this benefit down the line:

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_4d0c0d30-cdd7-11e0-93dd-001cc4c03286.html

Here's just a taste to show you how the true facts, as revealed in a recent survey of ALL school districts, compares with the bits of anecdotal spin released by Scott Walker in press releases:

Sixty-five percent of the respondents said their districts will have fewer full-time-equivalent positions for this school year compared to last year. Twenty-four percent reported they will have the same number of employees and 11 percent said they will have more staff working in their districts.

Twenty-seven percent of the school districts included in the survey will have fewer programs or activities in the 2011-2012 school year compared to 2010-2011, 68 percent will offer the same number and 6 percent will provide more.

Thirty-two percent of the respondents reported that class sizes will be larger next year, 59 percent will be the same and 8 percent will have smaller class sizes.

....

• At Beloit Turner, the elimination of the high school alternative education program and a position cut due to cancellation of a specific state grant, are called “a severe cut to our at-risk students.”

• In Auburndale, the district will no longer offer advanced placement English or advanced placement computer science. There will be less instruction in both vocal and instrumental music. The drama program will likely be cut.

• In Oconto Falls, cuts at the high school include positions in special education, the mathematics lab, technical education and the library. At the middle school, the district eliminated half-time positions for band and math and a half-time dean of students.

• St. Croix Central will hire lower-paid para-professionals to replace certified teachers in the elementary school library, the English language learner program and a technology coordinator program.

• Germantown schools eliminated a reading specialist, high school guidance counselor, instructional specialist, communication coordinator and middle school teacher.

• Winneconne lost positions in math, English and the library along with half-time positions in family consumer science and health/physical education.

Another brief musical interlude, just to annoy JoAnna.

Tony C:

I also notice you didn't dispute the facts in Wisconsin. Walker seems to have exposed the union for what it is.

Two posts so far. Two LONG posts. How many more would you like? I assure you that there are plenty more where those two posts came from.

Turdblossom dirty blogging trick #4:

Once the Liberal goes through the trouble to research, gather, collate, compose and write their narrative your job is to discredit it. Make it obvious you tossed their labor-intensive narrative aside like garbage.

This will have the effect of demoralizing the Liberal poster. It will make them unwilling to expend
the effort again, and for us, that is a net win. Attack Attack the source.

Any Liberal website or information source must be marginalized, trivialized and
discounted.

Not gonna work on this liberal poster - not NOW - not EVUH!

AM: Here's just a taste to show you how the true facts

There are "facts", there are "true facts", and then there are the "Anna Molly Cherry Picked Facts".

A reading specialist got eliminated somewhere. Wow.

Two posts so far. Two LONG posts. How many more would you like?

13 please.

Tony C-2383666 -

What alternative reality produced you?

Navy is absolutely genuine, and quite a patriotic man deeply concerned for our nation. He does his research, writes his own analyses, and prepares for the debate here. That's the way he chooses to use his own time. He's not beholden to anyone, not in any kind of coordinated "conspiracy," and certainly not a paid blogger, as we suspect several of the right-wing trolls here may be (Norquist and the Heritage Foundation, Club for Growth, et al have certainly been known to sponsor that). I really have less free time to do the same and often don't join in here for days.

Your attempts to discredit the SUBSTANCE of Navy's posts by posting such spurious tripe attacking him simply don't work. You wanna fight, buddy, arm yourself and go after the content, not the writer. Another jerkwater rightie, like JoAnna, who doesn't add anything to the conversation. You're added to the "ignore" list. Bye-bye, ding dong!

Many thanks to all the First Read contributers.(,well, 90% before the RWNJ's appear). First Read has been the "Readers Digest" of truth for me since I first joined NewsVine. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, isn't it? I may not express myself so eloquently as so many on here have done but I appreciate all you do. Kudos to Navy, John A., John B., Bev, Amy, David Walker,Jody, Drive by, Fiesty, Job1, etc...You have all earned my respect and gratitude.

"I offer my opponents a bargain: if they will stop telling lies about us, I will stop telling the truth about them. " ~Adlai Stevenson

Except that Navy is a "she" not a "he." And who is "we?"

Sorry I should have quoted that but since it came from an email I received from a fellow Independent (a friends on a school board) I assumed it was data he collected and assembled. I have never been a plagiarizer in the few years Ive been blogging and always quote the source. I guess I hit a very raw nerve! And I think its very funny that NO ONE commented on the 20 some thousand Democratic voters on the voting list...that cant be removed until after the election. What are they going to do take the real vote and subtract 20K from the total? LMAO! Oh Brother! Were getting as bad as Chicago!

JAS1,

That's pretty much what your posts are AM - nothing but elevator music.

You asked Anna for her source and she gave it to you and this is the best you can do? No wonder many of the posters on FR have you on ignore.

devie: You asked Anna for her source and she gave it to you and this is the best you can do?

I didn't ask for a source devie. Go back and read it again.

I did ask for her comments. What she came back with was her usual fluff.

@devie -- well you obviously don't. Are you the designated JAS1 official watchdog LMAO!!!!

BTW -- Why is President Obama irresponsible?

Navy:

I see WC is still trying to dictate to people what to write, how and when. Too bad WC your neo-Nazi/Fascist Party has not overthrown democracy and free speech yet. Until that day you can go pee up a rope.

Navy, I can't imagine the world you must live in where anyone who disagrees with you or offers some advice is a NAZI.

It must be awfully lonely and dark.

JoAnna:

There are "facts", there are "true facts", and then there are the "Anna Molly Cherry Picked Facts".

A reading specialist got eliminated somewhere. Wow.

I already suggested that you read the entire article. The loss of a single reading specialist is not exactly all that has happened or will happen. And belittling it simply doesn't make it so.

These are kids we're talking about, JoAnna. The "future" that you like to lecture us all about. The "future generations" that we're all supposed to be doing this for. The only question is, what kind of future will they find if we abandon them today?

In reality, Jollyoldsoul seems to be the one with the cherry-picked -- and plagiarized -- facts. Why don't you go after HIM, JoAnna?

I believe you tried this same tactic on me when Walker crowed over "his" job creation performance for June -- which I questioned at the time, and which the heavy July job losses have since proven to be not exactly the miracle he describes.

Why, then, would you continue to believe Scott Walker about anything? Don't you EVER get tired of having egg on your face?

As for posting more for your benefit, not worth my time. You would just accuse me of something, avoid confronting the substance, and smirk your way on down the thread to your next victim.

Have a nice day.

I guess NJ must still be digging for facts to show why TX experienced a MUCH bigger spike in government employment exclusively due to the census, and that the boost was only temporary.

Because without that the only rational conclusion is that Keynesian stimulus was at work and that an uptick in government employment as private employment flagged is the true source of the milder recession experienced by Texas.

JoAnnaSmith1

Headline: Weekly Jobless Rate Jumps Again

Too bad for you, JoAnnaSmith, that the polls show that the majority of the public stubbornly continues to put the blame for the bad economy where it be belongs: on George W. Bush. The president's problem is that the public blames him for not cleaning up Bush's mess fast enough.

He's got to convince the voters that he's doing a better job of it than Romney, the corporate raider who made his fortune by firing people, and Perry, the governor who "miraculously" created jobs by taking stimulus money and increasing the number of GOVERNMENT jobs in Texas while the number of private sector jobs DECREASED.

Given the vast quantities of money from secret corporate donors that will no doubt be poured into lying Republican attack ads, it seems to me that Obama has some chance of succeeding against the brand of bad dog food the Republicans continue to sell, which has only gotten more rancid since Bush was peddling it.

John A. Thats the spirit, run and hide. You related to the Wisconsin law makers? Bye, Bye. You really know how to hurt a guy....LOL

Anna Molly:

Oh NO, you exposed JOS as not telling the truth - again. My, who would have thought.

Anna Molly, First Navy is a fraud..I am not the only one to recognize it. Your right to "buy into" his posting name. My right to expose it. I didn't know "Navy" was my opponent. No contest. Like Harry Truman said: " I wouldn't have to get out of bed in the morning to defeat that guy, he is GD liar." Harry was talking about Nixon. Good old Harry S. We sure could use him now.

You really are a class A moron - Show me the "proof" that you keep spouting that makes me a fraud. I want to see your proof right here now.

Expose what? That I am US Navy Retired with a service connected Disability - that is a fact and i do not have to prove it to you or anybody else.

What proof do you have that I am a fraud. Show me the proof you snipping little fascist Gestapo twit. You are the perfect example of what is wrong with this country - People like you.

jollyoldsoul1:

Sorry I should have quoted that but since it came from an email I received from a fellow Independent (a friends on a school board) I assumed it was data he collected and assembled. I have never been a plagiarizer in the few years Ive been blogging and always quote the source.

I guess I hit a very raw nerve!

Don't flatter yourself. You didn't hit any raw nerve with me, as your facts are incomplete and easily countered. But that's the way of conservatives. When called out on your plagiarism, you try to blame your own misconduct on me for calling you out on it.

A very common tactic of the bully or the abuser. Blame the victim.

Despite what you say, you ARE a plagiarizer, even if it was just some friend's words, which I highly doubt. JoAnna can tell you all about it.

And besides, your credibility is zero with me. I have on several occasions before seen you say things out here that I had to call you out on -- lies if you will, like the Michigan governor's popularity, for example -- a lie easily refutable by citing a recent poll.

Remember? Because that one's happened more than once.

Now begone. You REALLY have no power over me; I just don't want OTHERS to read your half-truths and misstatements and think they are true.

AM: These are kids we're talking about, JoAnna. The "future" that you like to lecture us all about.

Darn straight it's for them. And they're paying for it when they become adults.

AM: As for posting more for your benefit, not worth my time. You would just accuse me of something, avoid confronting the substance, and smirk your way on down the thread to your next victim.

You think you're a victim? How odd. And delusional.

I guess you think you are clever.

Where in my post, or any post, did I say that government employees went back to pre- recession levels in Texas, John B?

Don't bother looking- you won't find it, because it isn't there.

What I said, and posted a link to yesterday, (so go look it up- I haven't deleted my history), is that Federal employment levels fell back to pre- Census levels.

The numbers are indisputable.

Navy: "snipping little fascist Gestapo twit"

You're on a roll today Navy. Dark and Lonely.....Lonely and Dark......

Feisty, it would be great if someone would post Rove's manifesto somewhere so it would come up on web searches and soon everyone could know the dirty tactics these guys have in their playbook.

Joe in Albany

Mort Zuckerman, chairman and editor in chief of U.S. News & World Report, and a big Obama supporter has a scathing op-ed piece in today’s WSJ. A few excerpts:

If you weren't so gullible, the "teleprompter" crap would have clued you in that Zuckerman is an Obama hater and always has been. If you google his name with Obama's, you find nothing but articles he's written over the past two years that viciously attack the president. Here's one Zuckerman's earliest rants written only 9 months after Obama took office:

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/10/21/2009-10-21_drowning_in_debt_obamas_spending_and_borrowing_leaves_us_gasping_for_air.htm

l

Texas created 40% of the new jobs created in this economic disaster.

Besides that, these were mostly well-paying jobs according to Richard Fisher – the DEMOCRATIC head of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas:

"Private sector capital and jobs will go to where taxes and spending and regulatory policy are most conducive to growth....the vast majority [of jobs] were equal to or above the national average for weekly wages. These jobs are not low-paying jobs."

Oh BTW, Mr Fisher also had this to say:

"I have spoken to this many times in public. Those with the capacity to hire American workers―small businesses as well as large, publicly traded or private―are immobilized. Not because they lack entrepreneurial zeal or do not wish to grow; not because they can't access cheap and available credit….[because] there is palpable angst surrounding the cost of doing business."

http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2011/fs110817.cfm

Anna Molly, You know as well as I do that some liberal journalist is not going to report in an objective manner. Facts are very difficult to come by these day. You have to admit, most in the media have a liberal bias to their writing. Most of them don't hide it, they work for liberals. It is a fact that the teachers union in Wisconsin, through collective bargaining , attempted and was successful in forcing certain school districts to purchase health insurance from the union owned healthcare company. It is a fact that those school districts now go out for bid and have reduced their healthcare costs to a great degree. The union is no saint. Walker is no saint either. I do not see things one sided. I see things for what they are.

Sorry JOS but your post came from Rep. Fitzgerald:

http://wisbuildblog.org/fitzgerald-addresses-effect-of-budget-on-schools/

@Bill -- Nice post. It refutes an earlier lie all to well.

Still no one can explain to me why President Obama is not irresponsible and unpatriotic in his actions.

Navy. good for you. That twit is clearly another propagandist attempting to divert other readers' attention from the substance of your work. The righties here fear you, Anna Molly, John B., Bev and Feisty.

And AM, speaking of propagandists - JOS is indeed an example of such. I put him on "ignore" so that I wouldn't waste valuable time slogging through his sewage. I certainly have engaged in substantive debates with conservative posters here about the facts and analyses but the trolls who try to reduce the discourse to basically flaming each other are a waste of effort. And one of their handy tricks when they do toss in alleged "facts" (an oxymoron if ever there was one!) is to cite other sources ... but conviently omit material from the selfsame source that contradicts their points.

You have all earned my respect and gratitude.

Thank you for the kind words Cynthia! I look forward to reading what you write!

Feisty, it would be great if someone would post Rove's manifesto somewhere

Mike -- I'm going to work on that - tune into tomorrow here on FT's for the turdblossom's 'cliff notes'

If you weren't so gullible, the "teleprompter" crap would have clued you in that Zuckerman is an Obama hater and always has been

Thanks for pointing that out Houston! I have NEVER heard him say a positive thing about the President!

@devie -- well you obviously don't. Are you the designated JAS1 official watchdog LMAO!!!!

BTW -- Why is President Obama irresponsible?

Ben,

Is that all you've got? Really? So your JoAnna's Wing man? You should aspire to something better than that. JoAnna is a big girl now.

The President is irresponsible? Hardly, the man takes fire from all sides and still keeps doing his job. You, and your GOTP candidate wannabes could even do it for one day.

Rick "Book Tour" Perry, Mitt "I Have a Plan Too" Romeny, Michelle "$2.00" Bachmann and the rest of the wishful thinkers. Those are your candidates, Ben. Nice, very nice.

Since John B continues with the not so clever talking points

http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=1590

I get that none of you understand statistics, but it is in pretty pictures. Go to the sixth graph down.

Notento John B- the folks in the new treehouse might tell you that you are a genius, but you are about as clever as a guy who gets fired and steals the poor performance reports on him on the way out the door.

And this is also amusing in the context of this morning. It goes to what I've always said about the disconnected decisions made by school administrators and, most importantly, by school boards. It seems that in at least one Wisconsin school district, the district administrator is not being asked to share the pain that teachers and staff have been asked to shoulder.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_97053902-c210-11e0-8f41-001cc4c002e0.html?sourcetrack=moreArticle

So much for "shared vision and shared sacrifice" --

Coming out of negotiations this spring, Verona School District teachers and staff felt hopeful. In the face of unprecedented cuts in state aid to public schools, they were encouraged by the words of their administrators and School Board members about the value of shared sacrifice and the importance of pulling together to ensure a quality education for the district's students.

Then, last week, the School Board gave district Superintendent Dean Gorrell a more than 7 percent raise.

Now many Verona teachers and support staff — education aides, cooks and custodians, among others — feel betrayed, both by their School Board and their administration. They say it's not the additional money — just under $9,500 — that Gorrell will receive on top of his $130,000 annual salary, but the principle involved.

"It's not the dollar figure," insists Jennifer Murphy, a high school math teacher who is president of the Verona Area Education Association, the union representing the teachers.

"We finished negotiations and felt like we were in a pretty good place. We felt lucky compared to other districts, and walked away with a very positive attitude, instead of an us-vs.-them mentality," Murphy says.

Verona district employees, like most of their counterparts in public schools across the state, are taking a cut in pay due to an increase in their share of pension contributions and health insurance premiums mandated by Gov. Scott Walker's budget passed in June. They must now pay 12.6 percent more of their health insurance premiums and 5.8 percent more toward their retirement fund.

In Verona, the sting of those salary cuts was eased somewhat by a collaborative effort last spring among staff, the School Board and administrators to hammer out a contract extension that also called for a wage freeze but protected what staff and administration agreed were important elements of quality education.

According to Murphy, the Verona staff was more than willing to take the financial hit, believing it would help preserve programs, prevent increasing class sizes and keep people in their jobs. "We felt recognized and respected by the School Board and our administration with a sense of shared vision, and shared sacrifice," she says.

Out of one pocket and into another. The new "public sector" model of "trickle up."

Be proud, conservatives. Because it's working SO well.

By the way, Anna Molly..did you give Navy the award? Look above.....talk about the truth hurting....No one gets that upset that is sure of themselves.....

@devie -- Now that's too funny. Calling me a wingman when the loonie left on here constantly slap each others backs and come to each others defense. Sorry devie but by obama's own definition he -- himself -- is unpatriotic and irresponsible. One can't call someone those names for running up a $4 trillion deficit over eight years and not except those words when obama -- himself -- did it in 2 1/2 years.

“The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents – #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.“

Oh when did he say this you ask? July 3, 2008 as Candidate for President.

The problem with campaign speeches is that they can come back and bite you in the butt.

"When Barack Obama took the oath of office twice on Jan. 20, 2009, CBS' amazing number cruncher Mark Knoller reports, the national debt was $10,626,000,000,000.

That means the debt that our federal government owes a whole lot of somebodies including China has increased $4,247,000,000,000 in just 945 days. That's the fastest increase under any president ever."

The Treasury Department reports that President Obama has also added $4 trillion to the debt… in just 2 1/2 years: So was it just campaign rhetoric or was Obama just giving the facts?

Oh one other big bite to take:
“I will be held accountable,” Obama said. “I’ve got four years and … A year form now, I think people are going to see that we’re starting to make some progress, but there’s still going to be some pain out there … If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”

Well Mister President you have three more months to get it fixed and the clock is ticking.

TICK TOCK TICK TOCK

http://www.thecitizen.com/node/8321

Now watch: OOPS open mouth insert foot. What a hypocrite on the deficit, debt ceiling, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLmru6no4U

I would like to add many thanks to Anna Molly, ,Independent Redneck, Nashville, Houston, devie, and all of you who contribute to the "Readers Digest" of truth on First Read. My watch list of favorites is increasing!

Now back to my hobby of "outing re-regs. ;-)

"I offer my opponents a bargain: if they will stop telling lies about us, I will stop telling the truth about them. " ~Adlai Stevenson

LMAO....... Anna is the stuff good divorces are made of! Its all a lie I tell you......every bit of its a lie.....even the lie is a lie! OMG As my peers in the UK say.....She a silly little tart isnt she!

Ben your correct, I just received an email stating the same source! I stand corrected on that one. You pay the hand your dealt sometimes. But then again we know girls cheat at poker! And as another point, Admitting to a mistake is defiantly not something liberals do. I have never resorted to the use of vile vitrolic name calling (even though I sometimes want to) I beleive that once you start down that path it hard to get off, as it is with several of the liberals on this blog!

Houston: I clicked on your link twice and got a screen with a cartoon character hawking a newspaper and the following message:

Sorry, the page you have requested has vanished.

LOL!!!

Here's an interesting article on Mort Zuckerman:

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/07/13/mort_zuckerman_speech

He claimed to have "helped write" one of Obama's speeches. But he was lying. He also claims to have voted for Obama, but I see no reason to believe that, either. If he lied about one thing, he'll lie about other things. He probably supposes he sounds more "objective" if he says he used to be an Obama supporter but now finds Obama's policies terrible -- despite the fact that most of what Obama has done is exactly what he promised to do during the campaign that supposedly won Obama Zuckerman's vote.

Cynthia's Point -

Thank you for your encouragement. When, as today, so much of the discourse has degenerated into a flame exchange - which is what paid trolls like Tony C wanted all along - comments such as yours remind us to get back to the point of making comments. As Feisty noted above, I will look also for your remarks and additions.

By the way, Anna Molly..did you give Navy the award? Look above.....talk about the truth hurting....No one gets that upset that is sure of themselves.....

It is not about being upset. It is about putting a piece of garbage in their place and not letting a lie stand. Where is the proof that I am a FRAUD - I want to see what proof you have that I am not US Navy Retired with a service connected Disability, I want to see the proof that I do not love my country as much as anybody else does, I want to see the proof for your allegations.

You right wing Gestapo wannabees take an awful lot of liberty hiding behind a key board. Typical Tea Bagger.

Cynthia and the FR lefty liberal lovefest mutual admiration club: Get one of those rent-by-the-hour motel rooms. I'd even pay for it if it would get you to would stop with the boring "I (heart) you. No, I heart) you more. No, I (heart)you the most." BS.

Joe in Albany

Houston: I clicked on your link twice and got a screen with a cartoon character hawking a newspaper and the following message:

Are you really so stupid that you think I'd post a fake link? Try adding an "l" to ".htm".

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/10/21/2009-10-21_drowning_in_debt_obamas_spending_and_borrowing_leaves_us_gasping_for_air.html

I have never resorted to the use of vile vitrolic name calling (even though I sometimes want to)

Do you idiots even remember what you had for breakfast this morning?

jollyoldsoul1

Wow Apparently Navybouy is sharing his one testicle with John A! Way to man up there John....make sure you clean it before you give it back!

#1.52 - Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:53 AM CDT

Too bad WC your neo-Nazi/Fascist Party has not overthrown democracy and free speech yet.

You right wing Gestapo wannabees

Calm down Vet. Take your meds, close your eyes and think happy thoughts about the post-Tuscon debate environment. Then maybe a few objective readers might actually take you seriously.

Karl Rove Playbook/manifesto of Reich wing campaign strategy. ;-)

http://www.webster.edu/medialiteracy/journal/FINALKARLROVE.pdf

What is funny about you right wingers is that you know that not one of your candidates can beat Obama, so you sit here and talk trash to liberals and think that independents believe your silly little lies. JAS1 you are full of hate rhetoric but that is all. You never have a point to make. PS it always makes me laugh when Women and people of color are republicans, can't you see that that party is the good ole boys club. They will never let you in no matter how hard you try.

It may come to a surprise to some on here but the accusations about Gov. Perry have been hashed and rehashed before. Each and every time he has come out on top. He overcame. Being elected twice to governor in Texas (first time moved in when President Bush was elected) shows he is a formidable opponent on any level despite the left's attacks. Here is a good analysis of Gov. Perry. You might want to read it. The read will expose all the claims warts and all and it didn't make one bit of difference. Sort of makes the personal attackers moot and insignificant.

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/governors_race/frontrunner-perry-poised-to-add-another-win-to-1009391.html

Cynthia and the FR lefty liberal lovefest mutual admiration club: Get one of those rent-by-the-hour motel rooms.

LibsRUs II is having a membership drive. They started with 14 members. After a heavy recruitment period, they're up to 14.

They're requirements for how delusional members have to be are a high hurdle for anyone to meet. At least the purple warm up suits they all get to wear are, . . . well, . . . "nice"?

Plenty more where that came from JOS!

jollyoldsoul1

lmao.......what a turd you are. Rick!

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/16/7386242-first-thoughts-did-perry-go-too-far?commentId=57118772#c57118772

HYPOCRITE!

LibsRUs II is having a membership drive.

Still sucking on your sour grapes I see...

Must really stink to go through life where given your sunny disposition even, your dog can't stand you!

Green is not a good color for you smiffy!

Do you idiots even remember what you had for breakfast this morning?

Apparently not.

Im betting Navybouys dog has a sore azz from being kicked a few times today! You people wouldnt know it because I dont advertise it but I too have a navy service disability (shrapnel under my knee that will be removed this fall) I have no doubt Navybouy was in the US Navy and to be honest I dont care what his disability is. I know people on disability from a paint chipper blinding one eye and another who was on firewatch and had a fire extinguisher sever his little toe. So anythings possible! I think the best one was the sailor that stuck his hand in the Deep fat fryer in my Chiefs Mess and severely burned 3 fingers so bad they are unusable. Thank god they changed the fat after that!

Ben-636050

It may come to a surprise to some on here but the accusations about Gov. Perry have been hashed and rehashed before.

Perry is the one making accusations that are as destructive and hateful as they are false, like his claim that scientists say global warming is occurring in order to get grant money (that would mean 98% of the climatologists in on the conspiracy Perry has imagined because that's the percentage that concur about global warming being anthropogenic). Perry is a ppor excuse for a human being, let alone a potential president.

STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SCREEEEEECH (The sound of presses stopping)

Navy is a "she" not a "he"??????????????????????? OMG! (Quickly flipping through my past posts and looking for gender references and hoping I didn't offend)

SOURCE, I demand a reputable source on this shocking piece of news.

Sorry kids, but in more than a year and a half of reading and commenting on First Read this is the first bit of "News" worthy of my time. (Which tells you how much I think of the reporting and commenting on this blog, but it's like watching car wreck in slow motion, you just can't turn away)

This is bigger news than the actual identity of "Deep Throat" (I thought it was Linda Lovelace, imagine my embarrassment)

Ms. Navy?????

OMG!OMG!OMG!

Mea Culpa. Navy, if I have ever said anything that made you uncomfortable or showed a gender bias I apologize profusely.

HEY....Wait just a doggone minute......is this another of those GOP/TP/LDS fake facts like Fox is "fair and balanced"?

I demand a source, verification, a sworn affidavit.

Geez, those GOP/TP/LDS dirty tricks are just never ending.

Next they'll want us to believe that Rick Perry was a successful governor of a state that is teaching intelligent design in it's schools in violation of the Constitution and that Michelle Bachman actually has a health care plan and a clue...about anything.

Stop the disinformation campaign. I demand a retraction... or verification!

America Held Hostage, day 237.

Obama/Biden 2012

Cynthia's Point -

Thanks for that link.

Reading the first few pages, it's clear that this is a valuable piece of scholarship. It condenses neatly what often takes a few years of studying logic and reasoning, rhetoric, and related subjects to learn (those are classes I always recommend to new college students, and sometimes a few even do).

Feisty, so glad your friend hooked you up with that to then make us all aware of it!

jollyoldsoul1:

LMAO....... Anna is the stuff good divorces are made of!.

Again, you flatter yourself. You wouldn't even have been invited to the reception. But I do love the way your misogynism comes shining through whenever anyone calls you out on anything.

When in doubt ... cherchez la femme.

Its all a lie I tell you......every bit of its a lie.....even the lie is a lie!

You ought to know. Just about everything you say IS.

OMG As my peers in the UK say.....She a silly little tart isnt she

You'll never get to find out ... because there isn't enough money IN THE WORLD.

@Houston -- If you are really from Texas (I would think so due to the name but I could be wrong), your opinion obviously made absolutely no difference and in fact is in the minority of the Texas voting public. The accusations I am talking about come from the first post today.

I also believe that Perry's position on global warming can be upheld by science as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

http://www.oism.org/pproject/

I think it his gender has been mistaken, I think along the way some one assumed he/she/it had a vagina! Depending on how old Navybouy is would be a indicator if he /she where stationed Shipboard. I remember around 1978 talk of women on board non combatant ships.....i.e. Tenders and supply ships!

Are you really so stupid that you think I'd post a fake link? Try adding an "l" to ".htm".

________________________________________________

I just went back to your original post 1.62 and double clicked on YOUR link a third time and got the same "vanished" message. YOUR link is bad. Moron.

The one in post 1.81 is good. Reading it only tells me that Zuckerman was one of the first of the 2008 Barry supporters to realize and speak publically about what many more Barry supporters have now come around to realize. He's not doing the job they expected when they elected him, as evidenced by his dismal poll numbers.

As far as your salon.com link, I don't read left wing opinion sites as if they were factual news any more than I do right wing opinion sites as if they were factual news.

BTW, before you jump on the "Zuckerman was writing in the WSJ" nonsense, I clearly described it as an op-ed piece, not news reporting.

Tony C:

Anna Molly, You know as well as I do that some liberal journalist is not going to report in an objective manner.

I know no such thing, any more than conservative journalists are not. Or are you saying that conservative journalists are biased, too?

Besides, this was only a survey of all 424 Wisconsin school districts, compiled by a newspaper. And again, what you say is nothing more than an attack on the source, without any effort to refute the facts cited. I suspect the newspaper still has the survey results to back up the article. Maybe you should try asking for them.

At least jollyoldsoul1, who claims that he has never called anyone a bad name, but just got through calling me a "silly little tart," cited some facts, unsourced and incomplete as they were.

USN - don't feed the trolls, they just keep coming back for more. "Ignore" them, and eventually they go away.

I find it hilarious that the Republican Party still can't decide when their going to have their primaries. The farce requiring Iowa to be first and New Hampshire second is biting them in the butt. As the Democrats found out in 2008, they aren't going to punish any big state that decides to hold it's primary sooner. What would they do if Texas, Florida, NY, Ohio, and California all decided to have their primaries on January 15 ? No one really cares about Iowa anymore. Most of the time it just picks the social conservative in the Republican party anyway.

Tony C-2383666

Obama is really afraid of Perry...He should be...

On the contrary, President Obama fears no one.

Nobody but Obama/ Biden 2012

BTW: Jody in Iowa, I know you read this vine, but the date of Iowa's causus voting as first gives the state outplaced importance in the selection of the nominee. Since the state has repeatedly failed to select the eventual nominee in recent years, its prominence has diminished considerably.

Ben-636050

@Houston -- If you are really from Texas (I would think so due to the name but I could be wrong), your opinion obviously made absolutely no difference and in fact is in the minority of the Texas voting public.

Perry's job approval is only 45% in Texas, a blood-red state.

I also believe that Perry's position on global warming can be upheld by science as well:

The fact that you think posting a list of names proves anything only shows you don't understand how science actually works. And it certainly doesn't support Perry's vicious lie that climate scientists say global warming is real in order to get grant money.

To add $4 trillion to the deficit is irresponsible and unpatriotic -- paraphrased from above. Crickets. LMAO!!!

@Houston -- Better than o bama's 38 percent. Remember that intelligent, reasonable and legitimate people don't pick and choose polls. Believe one, believe them all. Also,please post Perry's exact quote. I just posted the links to show there are both sides -- fair and balanced.

Anna, thats a compliment! Having spent 10 years in the US Navy (when sailors were real sailors) I could lay you to waste with names in a tirade so full of vile vitrolic language you would run for the ladies room in tears! But I was raised by a conservative mother and ate my share of ivory snow!

Joe in Albany

As far as your salon.com link, I don't read left wing opinion sites as if they were factual news any more than I do right wing opinion sites as if they were factual news.

You mean you don't read articles with FACTS you don't like. It's a fact that Zuckerman claims to have "helped write" a campaign speech for Obama. It's a fact that he was lying.

@Houston -- The only person that can call Zuckerman a liar on the speech writing is obama. Please present obama's quote link. Thank you.

Skip:

Too funny, thanks for the feedback. Just goes to show how lost these poor souls really are. You have a great day.

Well, this article contains two more of Obama's "brilliant" ideas that will work as well as all his others

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/business/economy/us-may-back-mortgage-refinancing-for-millions.html?_r=1

Earth to Obama- the reason millions of homeowners have not refinanced at lower rates is that their homes are worth less than the mortgage balances. How the heck do you propose to fix that? Give them all enough money for the 80% equity requirement?

Here's a clue- every single thing you have done so far has lengthened the housing crisis. Try something new- stay out of it! It will fix itself- would have, by now, if you had not meddled in the first place.

Second dumb idea- the federal government becoming landlord. I can see it now. There is a staff meeting in the Oval office, when the phone rings-

"hello? Yes, this is president Obama. I see- the water heater broke again. Well, I'm in the middle of a pretty important meeting. . .

Oh, well, I'm sorry to hear that. Tell me, did you call HUD? You did, okay. WHAT did they tell you? Gee, I'm sorry about that.

No, no, I don't want you to call me a slumlord. I'm not, really. So, why didn't the plumber they told you to call come? He hasn't been paid for the last time he was out? Why not?

What the heck is a EO 2008? Oh, right- the contribution form. Well, why didn't he fill it out? He DID fill it out? They rejected it? What's this plumber's name? Joe? Joe, what? Oh, Joe the Plumber.

Well, did you try any other plumbers?"

Anna Molly, to be fair to both sides, with government budgets you know its impossible attribute a cause and effect precisely so both sides can embellish their claims. According to saturdays Wall Street Journal, it confirmed that Walkers programs have provided a windfall to local government budgets allowing them to retain teachers and renegotiate health contracts. The savings alone in Milwaukee was supposedly $25 million this year alone. It also indicated that Walker's approval ratings have been slowly creeping up as the positive impact of his policies begin to take shape. It said the recalls had zero impact as all positions were already entrenched so the union money was completely wasted as the 2 GOP candidates that were recalled were so based on reasons other than Walker. I am sure this could be skewed reporting so just like any newspaper article you have to take with a grain of salt. The missing link in your info and article is whether any of those cuts were attributable to any of Walker's policies? The fact that government budgets in Wisconsin have been slammed is of course the impetus for Walker's policies in the first place. The fact that many of the budget cuts and layoffs couldnt be avoided completely with all the savings from his policies isnt shocking. So you would have to show that these teacher layoffs or program cuts were not going to happen but for Walker's programs. In fact, its more likely isnt it that just like the Stimulus claims by Obama, that jobs were saved because it would have been much worse without the Walker driven changes?

Navy,

My best to you always my friend.

To: Jollyoldsoul: You RWNJPOSMF-er. Just because some of us carry our reproductive organs on the outside and some of us carry them on the inside is no grounds for any air of superiority or snide comments regarding another poster's gender.

Obviously your mother should have used Ajax or maybe even DRANO instead of Ivory to wash your mouth out.

AMERICA HELD HOSTAGE (by morons like JOS) Day 237.

Obama/Biden 2012

For one thing, the authors of First Read impressed me today. How can you write an entire article about the Republican primary and not mention Ron Paul even once? I heard Ron Paul on the radio this morning and like him even more now. One of the only people making sense.

Jollyoldsoul pointed out the successes of the conservatism in Wisconsin. It is a state that is improving and rapidly. Now compare that to a state that went the opposite direction in 2010...Illinois.

• Illinois raised the state income tax 66% (taxing helps the economy right liberals?)
• Chicago just raised property taxes to pay for more union teachers
• Illinois passed it's own version of the Dream Act enabling illegals to get scholarship money.

...and what has this liberalism accomplished?

• 89,000 jobs lost in Illinois so far this year with more threatening to leave.
• Moody's bond rating lowers Illinois and the interest the state pays on debt increased.
• Unfunded pension liability 75 billion and rising.
• an unfunded medicaid explosion due to ACA and Illinois' allowing illegals to participate http://www.pritchardstaterep.com/Perspectives/Gokhale_IL_Medicaid_Draft%5B1%5D.pdf

Illinois congressmen and politicians are not to be trusted to keep their government from becoming insolvent. Just so happens that one of those is sitting in the White House and poses the same threat to the rest of the country.

Joe, and where do you think Obama learned it all from? I live in chicago and can testify first hand that the progressive policies advocated on here have been fully tested using us as guinea pigs and its been a total failure. Where is John A, Fiesty, Navy are you going to blame all the economic mess in Illinois on republicans, teabaggers or whoever else you blame besides the democrats? There arent any in Chicago they are all democrats and the same machine from which Obama was raised? Come on guys fill us in on your it must be someone else blame game?

Ron Paul is about as viable as Hitler at a Bar Mitsvah. Gimme a break.

NJ-

I guess you think you are clever.

Clever enough to recognize complete and utter BS when I see it. TX added over 250,000 jobs, but after the census government employment in the state dropped by only 7,300. http://southeasttexascommercialbrokers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Texas-Employment-by-industry.png

Your claim that the immense numbers of government jobs added in Texas are due to a short term increase for the census is a lie. I'd call it a mistake, but as someone who claims to be a highly qualified economist you'd know better.

FEISTY, That is why you are writing on FR and W was in the WH. He had the balls to go after the Taliban. You remember 9/11? They attacked US soil have you forgotten? We are taking it to them in Afghanistan and have been for 10 years and I hope we grind them into the crust. If you would get out of Chicago and see what is going on in the world you may be more educated.

Ben-636050

@Houston -- The only person that can call Zuckerman a liar on the speech writing is obama. Please present obama's quote link. Thank you.

I know it's too painful for you to read an article that presents facts that you don't like, but Obama speechwriters said this:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0710/Zuckermans_contribution.html

Among those with reason to be puzzled, a White House source tells me, were Obama's speechwriters, Jon Favreau and Ben Rhodes. Neither "has ever met or spoken to Mort Zuckerman" and the two have "been closely involved in every speech the President has given since 2005," said the official.

As for the president, he's got better things to do than issue denials of an obvious lie told by some moron made to satisfy some other moron writing on this blog.

Houston, I completely agree with your comments and dont think Obama should be criticized or held accountable for this. However, you realize that your last comment in which you said "hes got better things to do that issue denials of an obvious lie told by some moron made to satisfy some other moron writing on this blog" That comment can apply to stuff written about all the GOP candidates by Fiesty, Navy, John A and B all the time and the stuff they cite. Maybe we should all be less moronic and discuss why one Obama or Romney's positions will make us a better country

Uh...Penquin...psssst...but you need to pull your head out.

#1. The Taliban didn't attack America on 9/11 and neither did Iraq.

#2. The whole time W was "taking it to them in Afghanistan" the real architects of the 9/11 were laughing their butts off and watching themselves on TV in Pakistan.

#3. Thanks to W mismanagement of his own "War on Terrorism" we are still in Afghanistan, it is America's longest running war and it took President Obama to actually bag Osama Bin Laden.

Remember, if you keep you mouth shut people with just THINK you're a moron, but if you open your mouth you will remove all doubt.

In the words of that great philosopher, Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon."

America Held Hostage (by the Penquin and JOS1) Day 237

p.s. Skip Smooch life is gunna suck for you in a few short months! FLASH BANG POP POP sniffle whiner! Nato rounds taste like crap!

OK, The Taliban harbored(sp?) terrorist, they paid the price. Iraq did nto live up to the surrender treaty they agreed to end Gulf War 1 in 1991, they paid the price.

Psychodoc, I doubt you are independent or voted for McCain as your little rant using TeaTard makes you lose all credibility. I would be surprised if you are even a doctor based on the level of writing skills in the post. I am one of those fiscal conservatives who would love to listen to your real understanding of complex issues. Your so brilliant and I am so dumb, so bring it on and explain to me my sheer idiocy and irrationality. Give me a complex issue that you are so erudite about and blow my socks off. Start with an easy one, give us your complex understanding of why your progressive views on corporate tax rates and making corporations pay more makes sense? Explain to us how increasing the costs and burdens on businesses small or large with the new health care mandates will increase job growth? These are complex issues, so enlighten us poor dumb rube slobs oh wise one.

If I may.

1. Middle class and poor spend less on health care

2. Middle class and poor have more money to spend on other things

3. Demand for said things increases

4. Producers of said things hire more employees to keep up with demand

5. YAY JOB GROWTH!

John,I found that link with a quick search for "Karl Rove playbook manifesto" as this thread progressed. A quick look and this was the obvious choice. I don't "know" anyone on here personally, however, I know the truth when i see it and/or experience it. Research is the key element to unlocking the truth. Many on here have been "slapped in the face" with the truth and yet they refuse to believe...frankly, I don't think they really care....their learning days have been over for too many years....how sad. Keep reading and you learn forever....

Ash, the middle class and poor spend very little if at all on health care now. If your poor you get it free, if your in a union, you get it basically free if your employed by a corporation and have employer provided coverage, your paying about 25% of the cost of your medical care in the form of premiums, deductibles co pays etc and your employer is paying 75%. As the cost for coverage increases to include the new mandates including free contraceptives to women and wellness screening, kids to age 26, preexisting conditions, the cost of medical care for you in your 25% has just skyrocketed and companies have less incentive to hire new ones. Can you show me where the take home net pay for consumers as a result of health care mandates have increased in order to increase demand for goods? In fact its the opposite.

Cynthia's point, does Karl Rove have a playbook? Can you show me that truth and experience different than whats been pointed out here to John? I always thought it was Saul Alinsky's playbook that was being used on this blog which is if I cant win the debate, lets use the art of personal destruction to win because that is all we have left.

jollyoldsoul1 ~

I could lay you to waste with names in a tirade so full of vile vitrolic language you would run for the ladies room in tears! But I was raised by a conservative mother and ate my share of ivory snow!

I highly doubt it. That was Michele Bachmann, only she was running in the other direction, merely because there were lesbians in the ladies' room.

I grew up in a pretty salty environment, myself, which is what first taught me how distasteful it is. My MOTHER could probably do better than you, not to mention my Army and Marine cousins, my aunts, my uncles, my stepfather, and even -- on occasion -- my grandmother.

So, I'm not squeamish. I just chose to live my life a different way.

But even if you could, I suppose that you believe berating me with your vitriol would make you more of a "man" inside.

Honey, you have no clue what a real man is.

Excuse me, I thought by "mandates" you were referring to the individual mandate to have health insurance (since the only way the other mandates wouldn't make premiums skyrocket is if everyone, healthy and not, participates in the system).

The other mandates aren't there to do anything about job growth, they're just there to improve the quality of health coverage.

Actually Psycho there wasnt a rant or no substance as if you read my post versus yours, you will see that yours is a rant and mine is actually humor based laughing at you. You didnt even come close to riling me up as I am too old and after 3 kids, I am far beyond being impacted by people who need to call someone names and not very good one at that and use big block caps that generally is used by middle school kids. Did you think you were original with TeaTard? Do you think there is an audience greater than 5 that is actually reading yours or my post? I know you think your playing to some audience but you are really just writing at this moment to one person and thats me. No one else cares and I have been around the block enough to know that because your ego is amused by personal attacks that makes you probably less than 25 years old, you use emoticons which strains my belief in your intellectual level. Lets face you dont jump in because you dont have the ability to respond like Ash did to the complex questions. Who cares about basic science? For every social conservative who thinks of creationism, there is someone who thinks 9/11 was caused by Bush, or democrats who want to ban circumcision or believe that snail darters are people too or want to punish terrorists by apologizing for being capitalists. Have you ever noticed that people who like to use personal attacks to make thier point like the jilted boy who said "She is just a slut" or the student who gets turned down by his college choice and says "that school isnt very high academically" or the employee who gets fired for incompetence "the boss hated me" is pretty much ignored as being credible? Most people pretty much are embarassed by such people. Do you happen to know anyone like?

I got to give you credit PsychoDoc - it didn't take you long to figure out poor sensitive kirk's routine...

Maybe if kirk pulled up his big boy panties someone might take him a tad more serious...

Until then, I skim right over his gibberish... he's not worthy of my time OR attention!

PS: Don't feed the trolls! ;o)

I know I shouldn't feed them Feisty, but it's so tempting sometimes!

I know - I consider it a guilty pleasure at times! ;o)

Care for some *popcorn*?

PS: Keep on posting - I am LOVING what you have to say!

Obama/Biden 2012!

Can I answer this one Kirk?

"Start with an easy one, give us your complex understanding of why your progressive views on corporate tax rates and making corporations pay more makes sense? Explain to us how increasing the costs and burdens on businesses small or large with the new health care mandates will increase job growth?"

It is not complex, it is rather simple. Those costs have been shifted to the consumers and they are not really discretionary. This leaves consumers with far less discretionary income so their is less demand for business to provide goods and services. Shifting those costs back to the profit makers will put more money in the pockets of consumers and they will buy goods and services which will create demand for business to expand and continue to make a lesser profit margin but increased profits overall do to expanded volume. As volume expands business will hire more people, now more people will have money to spend and now you are on an upward spiral. The only problem is how to get started because business will not expand until the demand is there first, so how do you get some money into the hands of consumers to get this ball rolling. We bailed out everybody else maybe we should have a massive consumer bailout something like wall street got. We need some outside stimulus at this point. I would say we need to first start shifting those costs back to corporations and we need a massive jobs bill, the government needs to invest a lot of money in nation building right here in the States, this would start the income cycle and those monies will be recouped later from the expanded economy. Just think if we started spending 2 Billion a week right here in the US instead of Iraq and Afghanistan, how could that hurt. Lets take a 4 billion dollar subsidy from the oil companies this year and spend it in fixing up one American city and see what happens to their local economy, I am betting it will improve, and more jobs will be created than just those hired for the projects. You can cut taxes for corporations, but tax cuts for them does not create customers for them it just creates more profit on less sales. I think we have proven that, or they would be hiring like crazy by now because their taxes have never been lower, and they have been this low for a good long while, if that was going to work it should have kicked in by now. Besides many pay no taxes at all so if low taxes creates jobs then no taxes at all should create even more jobs faster. But the truth is we keep cutting their taxes and picking up their tab and they keep laying off because no customers walk in their doors.

PsychoDoc:

I never attacked you personally, Kirk, I attacked what you believe in. There's a difference, but I'm not sure you understand it.

He doesn't. Authoritarians never do. He and I have had this discussion before. Everything that contradicts what he says is a personal attack. Nothing you say penetrates because he is always right. And just look where it is getting us -- deeper and deeper into the abyss.

@ Forrest --

Truly, one of the best-reasoned, calmly stated summaries I have seen here. But the Tea Party has gotten it into its head that the only way to solve the deficit is to kill the beast.

And they haven't really thought through what will happen when the beast is dead, as we are beginning to see in Wisconsin. When they do, they will blame it on welfare and seniors and the poor because they absolutely do not dare raise taxes or do anything openly to stimulate demand.

On second thought. Never mind. The contradiction will not bother them one whit. They will welcome the government money with open arms.

Let's just hope it's money distributed to create demand, and not just more wealth. Why do I not have total confidence in this?

Why? Because I can readily see that happening -- again. Thanks for the excellent post.

Feisty I would LOVE some popcorn! It's my favorite snack! :o)

Nothing like the famous Feisty Mix - half caramel corn & half cheese corn... Mmmmm

I see feisty has been found out. No longer first on first read. Second now to pretend she isn't a shill. Navy gets first post. Token, unless he is a paid shill too. Bev gets a few licks too, Feisties left leg.

The shills think they are making a statement but they are speaking only to a few dieshard wrongs. They will never get a base here because the only people who post here are already sworn leftists, or the majority, those who laugh at them. Just bashing the right instead of understanding the wrong that they worship.

Every First Read brings the wrong out as the minions they are. No original thought. No solutions. No credibility, yet MSNBC encourages/pays them to sell their tripe to the few dumb enough to believe it.

So sad. MSNBC, you need to find more persuasive shills. Your ratings are sinking by clinging to the wrong. Your market share is down. Yes you are #3 and have only 1/3 or less of the market than #1. Why do you think that is? I'll tell you. You employ idiots who want ot destroy America. You encourage and pay shills that care nothing about America. Your leftist articles are nothing more than opeds pushed as news and nearly everyone sees it. The only ones who don't are welfare babies looking for a handout, too lazy to get off their asses to do anything except whine about how hard it is to get more welfare they never earned.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

"Nothing like the famous Feisty Mix - half caramel corn & half cheese corn... Mmmmm"

Is that limorger cheese? Or just the totally moldy kind?

Okay Bob instead of just complaining all the time lets hear your ideas on how we can get some more welfare we have not earned.

Bob who is #1?

Interesting responses so Psycho calls people a Teatard and somehow I respond to his infantile rant and that makes me a teaparty person? Fiesty and since you have never actually had the courage to have an intellectual debate with me and you weigh in? How is my response at all showing my sensitivity? All I did was call you guys out on being infantile and that makes me sensitive? Sorry Doc, your attempt at defending yourself by again placing the blame on me wont work but I am glad that the group hug committee that for some reason seemed to fall into the trap you put in your original post in that they couldnt help themselves to post right?

Anna Molly, I am disappointed as I thought we got past this. Dont you think so far its you that has been intractable? What is authoritarian about calling out Doc for being a dick? You agreed with me and told me that you never personally attacked anyone and apologized for getting snarky with me once. But your going to defend someone like him for me calling him out on his infantile rant? Lets face it he probably is in middle school based on what he is writing as no real adults act like that even Navy and Fiesty are nasty in a more adult fashion. I have offered several times to discuss anything you like but you ignore the things you dont like and give statements that you do and then say I am always right? Show me one post in which you have said "You know your right about that but ....."

Forrest, thanks for your response and even though Anna Molly and others seem to think I never agree with things you guys say thats just not true. I have never been for no tax increases, I have always advocated for tax reform which would include a fairer, simpler and yes progressive tax system for individuals. I have no problem with a job works infrastructure bill stimulus but if you remember thats what the GOP complained about in the first stimulus as it was loaded up with pork projects for all the various democratic congress people and it was the GOP that continued to push for more shovel ready projects. But I am not against that. But as for corporate rates, let me ask you a few things as I have worked for two large corps here in the Chicago area and I am very familiar with how tax rates impact their financial behavior.

First lets start with demand. Its not just about demand, its also about investment, marketing and research and development. You can create demand by giving your customers a product they want so its not just about putting cash in a consumers hands but I disagree that raising corporate taxes does that. First, a product or services cost is based on an profit margin that includes the taxes the corporation pays. So GM for example, can sell a car against its competitors based on a profit margin. The higher the taxes, the less able GM to be flexible to compete against Toyota that has much lower taxes especially in foreign countries. So can you imagine the job growth in the US if US corporations paid no taxes on foreign sales? Assuming the same basic quality of product, if it can sell its products cheaper without having to pay 35% corporate tax against competitors thats a huge advantage. But lets say that a company cant or has a big enough profit margin to pay the tax. Your correct that many companies have big cash piles or they make enough profit they can afford the tax and compete effectively. Where do you think that cash comes from? Its shareholders. So if your talking about the 70% of corporations that are small business owners and private, your basically taking it out of the individuals hands and that would be a huge job killer but I assume your talking about large public corporations like OIL companies etc. So when you take billions out of the pockets of these companies I assume you then agree that these public companies are now worth billions less in the stock market right? Thats natural so we just took a ton of money from public shareholders through a reduction in their stock values. The owners of the oil companies are probably over 90% institutions which are endowments (so public and private college tuitions go up), pension plans are huge owners (so union pensions are even more unfunded at the state and private levels), mutual fund values are dramatically decreased (so 401k balances are dramatically reduced hurting our seniors and future retirees even more).

I guess I dont understand why there is such a huge cry to tax corporations as I understand the class warfare on the wealthy but not corporations.

JOS1

I do believe that sounds like a threat. I never take threats seriously when they come from FF's who hide behind their blog moniker to make them.

Penquin, nice try big guy, but you're still off base. And it was Obama who bagged Osama, not your hero Bush2 or his evil sidekick "Darth" Cheney.

Obama/Biden 2012

Ben-636050, not only do I not consider wikipedia a credible source, my instructors would fail any paper in which I cited wikipedia as a source on the university level.

Good morning John,

Great!

Government does nothing but corrupt and devalue when it involves itself in these local functions.Before the "great society" which has single handedly ruined the black community...the graduation rste was much higher,one parent households much lower and Black owned businesses were much more prevalent. Think the graduation rate has went up...or down for blacks steadily since the inception of LBJ's welfare system? As more government money is put into the college systemthe tuition rates soar. Public education has gotten steadily worse the more money that is thrown at it instead of placing the blame on parents where it rightly belongs.2 whole years of unemployment does NOTHING toget people off the rolls but increases the time they are out of gainful employment, which in turn decreases their chance of getting a job the longer they are unemployed. Government is inefficient in everything it does and the private sector much more efficient. Get government OUT of things it does not belong in.

John B:

Right on the money. You and John A. have been smoking this week. Great informative post that proves just how dangerous the ideology is from the right.

Their sole function as they see themselves is to destroy the government as we know it and replace it with Wall Street, Big Business (Oil, etc) and Insurance Companies. We will be voting, assuming they allow us to still vote, for CEO's instead of our peers.

Their "New" Ideology is not compatible with democracy and a free Society as we know it. It is right out of the 1930/1940 failed ideologies of Europe - Nazism/fascism/despotism/oligarchy/dictators etc. Their rhetoric, their Bills, their "Obstructionism", etc all show common component's of those other ideologies gone by. They (TP/GOP) claims no but sorry, actions speak louder than words and if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck it is probably a duck - a right wing radical duck.

And then there's john mcgraw....who clearly has been listening to the right-wing media machine which spews half truths and links them to things they dislike. The things listed are blamed on the "great society" but make no mention of the impact of Jim Crow, the loss of city factory jobs sent overseas, the prejudiced that remains today, etc. There are many reasons for what Mr. McGraw states but none of them have a thing to do with the "great society."

So JM, you can prove any of this how? More unsupported Conservative talking points, no proof of any kind because they're not facts, just part of a GOPTP attack on the concept of government.

The radical, John Birch Society twist of the current Conservative Movement is destructive to society. All you need to do is look at the level of misinformation detailed in my post above. The Conservative PR campaign has convinced many that government isn't even a factor in most of our lives, when in reality effective governance is critical to the functioning of a modern society.

john mcgraw -

You concisely summarized the ideology of the Grover Norquist - Jack Abramoff program. Of course, it is a complete lie, but the lies are told in support of the objectives. I needn't post a refutation, but rather endorse Jody's concise rebuttal.

I don't expect you to follow this link, but a comprehensive treatment of your approach and its consequences was posted on First Read yesterday. Others following this thread may find it informative:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/24/7459443-romneys-up-and-down-summer#c57366857

For a complete history of the formation of your tear it all down and give it away concept of "freedom" and "government," see Thomas Frank, The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Ruined Government, Enriched Themselves, and Beggared America, as well as Robert Scheer, The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.

Your ideology has already been applied. It is a known failure that wreaks havoc, spreads poverty, encourages oppression, and reduces nations to near-feudal conditions.

Do you think if Obama is re-elected, that he will accept responsibility for his policies? Do you think if Obama is re-elected he will stop blaming Bush for the failures in the Obama administration to improve the economy.? Do you think if Obama is re-elected he will stop making excuses and lead. Do you think he will put a plan in writing, any plan?

These are the questions that Americans are asking? Obama won't answer those question, he will just put down his opponent. Leaders take responsibility. Losers make excuses.

Im thinking No No and No and oh yes NO!

Come on guys whether you support Obama or not, McGraw is right about the black community and the generational welfare caused by the progressive programs in the 60s. It has exacerbated the problems it was supposed to solve because its a fundamental flaw in your guys thinking. Personal responsibility and accountability with a pathway to success is what has made this country strong. Its why immigrants cross the border, its why asian immigrants have been enormously successful in this country with so many small businesses. I realize you guys believe the failures of the progressive voice of the past by pointing to some successful liberal safety nets like social security and medicare mean that your education and poverty initiatives of the past wont be repeated for the future but thats the current debate isnt it? MCgraw is right though about the past and at least have the courage to admit where progressive government programs have been failures. Its ok guys you wont lose your posting priviledges here if you actually want to have a credible debate. I dont think he needs to provide sources for the fact that black and white educational achievement has not moved in 40 years, or the rates marriage, gangs, teenage pregnancy, drugs, black male incarceration etc have gotten worse. At least the democrats here in chicago admitted that their low income housing approach of the 60s made things worse and Clinton realized that welfare without work or job training doesnt work. You dont need sources for things that have been discussed and talked about ad nauseam for decades.

More Conservative lies. Poverty didn't increase after the advent of the Great Society programs, it was reduced by nearly HALF.

Pass it on...it is 2011.......The USA is a debtor nation. Food stamps are at their highest ever.

John B, Mcgraw wasnt talking about the Great Society Programs and please stay on point. He was referring to the progressive programs of the 60s and how they impacted certain segments of our society. Dont go and try and find one program or statistic that somehow can be twisted to prove some conclusion you want to reach. At that point in time, I fully understand why they did it and how it came about and we are judging the success in hindsight but the way welfare, low income housing, government social safety net programs were set up and the criteria that was used and the educational segregation at that time actually made things worse for the black community. Those progressive ideas were wrong. We should have invested the money differently. Stop fighting something you cant win. Doesnt necessarily mean the progressive ideas of today wont work but have the fortitude to stand up and admit failures when they stare you in the face.

Its no different than having the guts to stand up and admit the progressive programs that have been experimented here in Illinois in which Obama learned from have been absolute failures to date. I realize things could turn around but as of now, big government, high tax, heavy union, heavy social entitlement programs, high regulatory environment just hasnt worked as well as the democrats thought. Cant blame it on the GOP in this state as the democrats are the only game in town.

Is the great society programs also why we see white "trailer trash" meth head, welfare queens with several kids from different men, living in squalor but still finding money for drugs and alcohol out of her government disability check. Surely those programs could not have just ruined the black community, they ruined everything, I have seen exactly what they have done on Jerry Springer. You guys could kind of see that happening to former slaves, but did not think it would make slaves out of so many white people right Kirk and Mcgraw. Ha you guys are ate up.

Example #157 why talking to Kirk is wasted effort;

John B, Mcgraw wasnt talking about the Great Society Programs

Quoting DIRECTLY from John McGraw;

Before the "great society" which has single handedly ruined the black community...

Kirk just exists in his own reality. You're entitled to your own opinion, you aren't entitled to your own facts.

Independent Redneck Va.

Koch Responds To Buffett: ‘My Business And Non-Profit Investments Are Much More Beneficial To Society’

And as long as a certain segment of our population is gullible enough to believe it it’s going to continue to cost us all.

Good morning Independent Redneck, Great post keep exposing these greedy bas-turds.

The funny part is the gullible low-information voter will swallow this full throttle. All the low-information voter gets in return for being stupid is something comparable to effect after imbibing prune juice .

However, I do believe the Kochs are wasting their money. America is waking up!!

IR:

Another outstanding post today.

It is all about creating a "New Great Society" based on two classes. "Those that have and those that never will"

This is not compatible with Democracy and Freedom as we know it. We will go back to the days of Feudal Lords and serfs (slaves).

Warren Buffet made his billions playing the stock market.

Good for him- but he also sheltered his vast fortune from estate taxes by forming a "foundation". The biggest difference between the percentages is that Buffet sank a lot of money in the Gates Foundation- another estate tax shelter- and has the unmitigated gall to call those who actually work and produce enough to earn more than $200,000 under taxed.

The Koch Brothers actually manufacture goods, which means they employ people at every salary level. I know this because, with some regularity, some liberal or other posts a list of products produced by them, asking us to boycott.

Here is a little news flash- the government does NOT collect tax RATES.

The government collects tax DOLLARS.

Twenty percent of $100,000 is still less than 17% of a million. I realize that liberals have a severe problem with third grade arithmetic, but no amount of fast talking can change the FACTS.

Floyd -- you're on FIRE this week! ;o)

Thanks for making us aware of this. FR Conservatives are uncomfortable with spotlighting the role of the Koch brothers in the GOPTP, but it's critical to understand their position. Their father, Fred Koch cofounded the John Birch Society, a radical fringe group disowned even by responsible Conservatives including William F Buckley and Barry Goldwater. David and Charles have spent vast sums of money to turn this into the dominant ideology of the Conservative Movement. It's just as crazy now as it was then, it's just had the benefit of a PR campaign that could sell ice to Eskimos.

It's worth pointing out that oil speculation is also a big part of the Koch portfolio. Now you know why Republicans refuse to stop blocking responsible regulation that would stop the wealthy elites from robbing average Americans at the gas pump...the ONLY significant risk of inflation in the current economy.

Bravo.......Pip pip.....Cherrio and all that rot! Let see what more can I say? Oh yea...Excellent post tremendous contribution! accolades to you! Gag coff coff excuse me too much popcorn and cellulu.......I mean butter!

Prime example No Jo. Most of the Koch Bro's fortune comes from investment where with carried interest they pay no taxes. The rest comes from investment that carrys very limited supply chains and relies heavily on government subsidy and avoidance of the carbon credit taxes. Are you'll not even capable of telling the truth for once in your miserable existence. Look it up for Christ's sake

Are you'll not even capable of telling the truth for once in your miserable existence.

HEY -- that's MY line! lol

And as long as a certain segment of our population is gullible enough to believe it it’s going to continue to cost us all.

Yeah, and most of those moron's seem to be the Tea Bags that post here on FR.

Ummmm I think your line is, Hey there isnt enough butter on this popcorn! As you melt down another Lbs!<--------See this is as bad as I get!

Let me get this straight...

Buffett sheltering his money in foundations - bad. The Kochs sheltering their money in foundations - good.

Buffett voicing an opinion on the tax laws - bad. The Kochs voicing an opinion on the tax laws - good.

Those of you on the right cannot even see the hypocrisy.

These gentlemen work within the system as it exists. But Buffett is honest enough to admit that it isn't fair. And Buffett is honest enough to conceed that it should be changed.

An article elsewhere on the 'Vine details how charities that received well over $1 billion in donations after 9/11 have performed very poorly in using the funds.

Pay attention. The ultra-right's mantra includes claims that government social service programs are bad, that private charities, churches, and the like, have done and will do a better job. That's part of their justification for shutting down everything.

While not every charitable organization performs poorly, the 'Vine article reminds us that not every one performs well, either. And accountability of those organizations is quite a sometimes thing, indeed.

IR's excellent piece shows how groups such as the Koch Brothers attempt to sell their ideology by example - but it isn't honest or accurate.

fielden,

And Buffet is generous enough to commit to giving MOST of his wealth away,...

I am pretty sure the Koch Suckers are committed to getting their hands on it,...by hook or by crook,...they want it ALL!

woo. How do you get food in that mouth with all the ....coming out. Me? very carefully...

Buffet is no dummy, just avoiding taxes.....He is smart enough to know that the money will do some good if given to charity. The government will just waste it.

where is my shovel, fisty's $hit is getting deep!

You mean you were not shovel ready....focus man....focus

Why are you guys so focused on the super wealthy? Who cares what Buffet and Koch brothers do or say? There is plenty of ability to make the arguments both ways as you guys all know that the websites that Navy likes to cut and paste from are funded by Soros and are just as slanted and worthless as the stuff coming from the Koch brothers. Who really cares? All of them behave rationally economically. Just as Buffet could pay more taxes to the government by paying himself a salary, writing a check or not setting up a foundation but thats not rationale economic behavior. Same thing with the Koch brothers or Gates. The Pritzkers fund Obama and some oil money will fund Perry, its the way of politics. You all criticize Perry for taking government money for his state and then not advocating the policies that gave him the money but you dont criticize Buffet for his hypocrisy. Big money influences both sides of the aisle.

Every once in awhile, its ok when someone on the fiscal conservative side makes a good point. Its mathmatically true that if reducing the tax rate spurs economic growth and that the absolute revenue dollars to the government are greater with the lower rate, just say "your right but I think the rate should be even higher because I think economic growth will be spurred by taxing the working wealthy, ultra rich and corporations more than we currently are." John B, it would helpful if you provided a source for an economist that believes raising taxes on this group will increase the economic output, GDP, government revenues and jobs but thats just me. All humor aside, when the wall is white and someone tells you its white, you guys saying to us no the wall is purple continues to eliminate any real credibility you guys possibly could have with any readers of the posts on here besides the group hug crowd or paid posters or the gang that couldnt possibly believe the stuff that spews forth half the time.

It is simple kirk and I am not going to quote economic data I don't need to, this is America everybody is equal nobody is special, nobody is inferior, it is one for all and all for one, one nation under God, indivisible. Well they are breaking that bond, they have set them selves apart, they are above equal, they are being treated as a superior class who gets a better set of rules than the rest of America, they are not paying their fair share, they are divided from the rest of us, forgot economics it is just Un-American now isn't it.

Great post Bill. Thanks for spreading the truth. Too bad it won't fall on any fertile ground on Liberal Island (aka First Read).

The new anti-Perry bumper sticker reads:

Vote Perry.

In Your Guts, You Know He Is Nuts.

Great post Bill. Or as Navy would say kudos!! He'll never say it because he is diametrically opposed to anything that doesn't increase the size of the welfare state he and his lib buddies want to expand.

Note they are blaming the Verizon STRIKE for the jump in unemployment. So they collect unemployment, get money from their strike fund and could do outside work off the books. That is real BS. How can you collect unemployment when you voluntarily put yourself on the picket line!! This makes no sense except of course to Libs in their own La La land.

And so goes the cheerleading for the attack on the middle class by the wealthy elites.

These sorts will make marvelous serfs in the new American aristocracy. At least they know their place unlike so many of us who think work has value.

That's all very nice, Bill.

But what do you suppose makes it possible for these financial visionaries to make and keep all this money?

What sets up provisions for manufacturing? What builds roads and maintains waterways? What ensures that energy is available and affordable? What defends the country so that manufacturing can happen free from concerns about defending it? What guarantees that food and water to support a workforce will be available and free from pollution?

The government does all of this.

Like or hate the people who make up the government, but the institution itself is what makes all of this possible.

Do you guys realize that with each packet of data received at the FR application interface the header info contains a MAC (Media Access Control) and a TCP/IP address given out by GBO's ISP. Im sure the site admins can look at that and tell if he is really those people. See the advantage I have over most people is Im the Chief Network Enineer (WAN) for my global company so I can go to any of our sites and out their internet connection there fore presenting a different IP address. I can also use one of 5 Network cards so i can also change my MAC address. Im pretty sure GBO does not have that flexibility!

Fielden

But 51% of the people don't pay for those services provided by the government. Think about it.

Yes I know they pay FICA and Medicare but they get that money back and yes I know they pay sales tax at the store on some items but so does everybody. When 51% reap the benefits you attribute to the government, why don't they at least pay something toward their costs?

What sets up provisions for manufacturing? What builds roads and maintains waterways? What ensures that energy is available and affordable? What defends the country so that manufacturing can happen free from concerns about defending it? What guarantees that food and water to support a workforce will be available and free from pollution?

The top 10% of earners already pay 70% of the costs for the items you mention. The top 10% of earners are already relinquishing a significant part of their wealth to a government that has (supposedly) enabled those earners to make as much as they do. What is it about those FACTS that you just don't get?

Jollyoldsoul: "See the advantage I have over most people is Im the Chief Network Enineer (WAN) for my global company so I can go to any of our sites and out their internet connection there fore presenting a different IP address. I can also use one of 5 Network cards so i can also change my MAC address"

So.....in other words.....you're proud of your ability to cheat, cheating is okay because you'll never get caught, and bragging about how your executive position makes you superior to everyone else here who plays by the rules because they don't have your advantages.

Could you remind me again which party you represent? And why anyone is supposed to respect anything you have to say here?

God I didn't say I did that, You must be a real joy to be around. Another woman perfectly suited for a divorce! I was merely stating how hard it would be for GBO to fake his id like you Liberals were professing. I was explaining the technical aspects of how he would have to do that. So let me really piss you off, I make a mid six figure income and pretty much work from where ever I want. Im currently sitting in my Florida residence for a few days watching the Tigers beat the Rays on my 52 inch HD flat screen. I could just as easy be sitting in my Detroit home or my North Richland Hills Texas home. P.S. Joanne all paid for. I really had nothing against you until this post where you stuck your snooty liberal nose into my explanation. Im sure you had no idea what I was talking about. Do some research before you spout off and get that prodigious posterior in a uproar! Did I also mention that Im a Emergency foster parent in Michigan and have taken in over 120 children in the middle of the evening with a bag full of clothes after watching their mother or father or both get shot or arrested. PS I donate the money the state HAS to give me to local food banks. I will put my charitable deeds up against any one on this site!

God I didn't say I did that

Uh huh!

Just like YOU didn't say this:

I have never resorted to the use of vile vitrolic name calling (even though I sometimes want to)

jollyoldsoul1

Wow Apparently Navybouy is sharing his one testicle with John A! Way to man up there John....make sure you clean it before you give it back!

#1.52 - Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:53 AM CDT

You've been busted twice today in a lie - why would anyone believe anything you have to say?

Care to try for the tri-fecta jollyold@!$%#?

Jolly olde sot, you have something to hide? Changing your ip address is inconsequential. ping>ping>ping>ping>..be waaary quiet..I'm hunting wabbits! ricochet wabbits, that is...oh,and faithful frosty alaskan greedy biz owners.hee,hee . ;-)

I was ready to really set off on a tirade. But I will take the high road. I go no where near your area in the world of Vitriol. You set new records every day! The worse I get is NavyBouy OooOoooOo thats soo mean. And Cynthia you will not get to share in the sista hood of the vagina with Fiesty! Get your own identity. You have no idea about the world of networks and what can be done. With a few hours of work people can find where you are to the street level. more than ping ...... try trace route and Nslookup to start!

So, let me get this straight. Someone up there posted that Obama makes twice as much money as he does, but pays the sames tax and implies that is a criticism of Obama.

But, he is the one advocating that Obama's and other wealthy individual's tax rate stay the same or get cut and Obama (along with Warren Buffet) says his rate should be higher.

I always knew conservatives voted against their own best interest. Go figure....

jollyoldsoul1, please accept my apology for referring to you as jolly old sot. This is the first time I have disparaged anyone by name and I am sorry for that. I don't need to "find" anyone at the level you are suggesting. I have a photographic memory and I am a voracious reader so it is very easy for me to "unmask" a few re-regs while I peruse the blogs on MSNBC/Newsvine. I have my own identity and I sure don't need to "share in the sista hood of the vagina" as you so crudely suggested, either. Now, what was your point??

The top 10% of earners already pay 70% of the costs for the items you mention.

And they hold 85% of the nation's wealth AND GROWING thanks to favorable tax treatment that average Americans don't get. That's the whole point, which you studiously refuse to acknowledge...day after day after day. Why should those who are least put upon to pay get BETTER TREATMENT than the people who work for them?

That's the reverse marxism of Ayn Rand...a world in which only the wealthy have value.

Jolly if somebody had a couple of laptops and access to a couple of friends network IP addresses and port numbers couldn't they rotate the laptops and using different networks as proxy servers at different times do the same thing while actually sitting in one location?

Perry is as dangerous as a rabid dog.

But not nearly as cute...

For one, if he would be elected our country would change alright. However, the rule of Perry would be so destructive to the lives of millions of people.

And Obama has been such a gem to the millions of unemployed and under-employed.

Hey Job1, rather than come on here and spout the things your Lib friends have told you to say, why not back up some of these comments:

The most dangerous person in the running for President of the United States is Rick Perry.

Why?

For one, if he would be elected our country would change alright

How?

However, the rule of Perry would be so destructive to the lives of millions of people.

Which people and why?

Perry is as dangerous as a rabid dog.

What does this even mean?

See Job1, you have been called out for what you are. An uniformed child that sits at the feet of Feisty and her court looking for some level of acceptance.

My guess is you check back all day long to see how many of those ever important votes each one of you insipid comments got duriing the day.

The President is a kind and wonderful man who made the mistake of extending the olive branch. However, the Republican-Tea Baggers will have none of that.

The President is still the best choice over any of these people, including Perry who is the most dangerous.

Anyone who votes for Perry is a fool.

The most dangerous person in the running for President of the United States is Rick Perry. To think that there are people in this country who would even consider electing this man to the office of President is well just plain crazy.

Yes. Voting for a governor of 10 years is crazy, but voting for a freshman Senator who didn't even complete a full term is very logical.

White Collar,

I'm not going to do your homework for you. So far everything we know about Perry is public record with more facts being uncovered about him daily. If you can't see the truth, that is your problem.

So, I say to you and the rest of group, eat your peas and do your home work and stop dumbing down American.

"I'm not going to do your homework for you." , "Eat your peas". Really? That's all you've got?

You come here and spout and spout inane, meaningless drivel with no facts and don't excpect to get called out? The big boys play here J1, I think you ought to head back to Sponge Bob and Disney for the affirmation you so badly need.

Now put your helmet back on and go outside and play. It's a beautiful day.

Hey Job1, rather than come on here and spout the things your Lib friends have told you to say, why not back up some of these comments

Turdblossom dirty blogging trick #5:

Confuse Challenge the Liberal position with questions, always questions. The questions need not be relevant.

The goal is to knock the Liberal poster off their game, and seize control of the narrative

Once you have control you can direct the narrative to where you want it to go,
which is always away from letting the Liberal make their point

The big boys play here

If the big boy play here, why are there so many Republican-Tea Baggers Punks posting here.

The new bumper sticker reads:

Vote Perry.

In Your Guts, You Know He Is Nuts.

Not hard to knock you guys off your game.

Your response is always the same though - don't answer the questions and call names like immature children on the playground. Not a pretty sight and no way to have a discourse but of course you don't want that do you since your guy has nothing good to be said about him.

We have plenty of Great things to say about the President. You folks just don’t listen.

Just stay tuned and we will continue to give you folks an education concerning your rabid dog Perry.

x

And you guys always do? Now, that's funny.

@Alan - Yes. Voting for a governor of 10 years is crazy, but voting for a freshman Senator who didn't even complete a full term is very logical.

Fair enough point about lack of experience if that is what you believe. However for those of us from the loyal opposition in Texas (few in number) who have seen Perry's policies directly have noted his tenure as being filled with a series of flip flops and contradictions.

As a side note, I don't condone the attacks on your governor just because of his size or party. Neither do I claim to know enough about Chris Christie to claim he is his party's savior or evil incarnate. I knew this would happen because of Bush, but the nation's outright contempt for Perry and all things Texan in nature is distressing.

These paid posters are always a better drama then the actual story.

If W. Bush and Perry were in the same family, W. Bush would be known as the smart one.

Job1-- Exactly! Even Bush would stutter and say "Shame on you, Can't fool me again" Heh! Heh! Heh!

Yeah, Cantor, why does that name ring a bell? think, think, think - oh yeah, he's the gubment watch dawg telling the folks in Joplin to bend over and PULL themselves up:

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/house-majority-leader-eric-cantor-r-va-says-no-aid-for-joplin-without-cuts

He's a real Me Firster when the chips are down. Don't let a crisis go to waste and all that. Bet your sweet ass when the constituence come a calling,...he'll be 'right' motivated to find some pork somewhere for Virginians. Have NO fear.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/30/eric-cantor-on-face-the-n_n_868700.html

You should not live in fear so much my friend.

The BIG earthquake in Virginia and DC is coming in November 2012.

The 2010 election was only a preview.

Yes john, what a "maroon" indeed . . . pot . . . meet kettle . . . (the jokes just write themselves).

You can bet those east coast republican governors will have their hands out to the federal government to help their hurricane recovery efforts! Government..SAVE US will be their cry!

mcgraw...."Government..SAVE US! Wow...what a maroon".......as in isolation? Is that what you really mean?.....You got it!....Earthquake and Irene, do your thing.......

Oh yes they hate the Government until they ask for their hand outs.

Nash and chilled:

Hey, maybe he went to the same college I did. Our school newspaper - named after our school colors - was "The Maroon and Gold". But the newspaper staff changed the sign on the door to read "The Moron and God". Every time I see someone use the word "maroon" around here, it takes me back...... :)

Teabaggers should have their drivers liscenses revoked so they can not legally drive on public roads. They shouldn't have a problem with that. They don't want to pay taxes? Then they shouldn't use the things taxes pay for.

And your proof is????

Navy, I know you only read liberal sources. But there is some objective reporting going on in this country. What I posted is a fact. The mostly liberal press will not not report this information. So you will have to broaden your search. Same question. Prove you were in the Navy?????

And your proof is????

Silly - his proof is because Tony SAYS so! lmao

What I posted is a fact.

Turdblossom dirty blogging trick #6

Prove you were in the Navy?????

Play upon any identifiable idiosyncrasies, character flaws, physical traits, names, to their disadvantage

I ask him the same question he asked me. Prove it. Why so upset?

Did you see all the nasty names Navy called me? That is OK. I know who I am....

Tony C:

I do not have to prove anything. You made up the lie, you claimed I am a fraud NOW YOU PROVE IT. Typical Gestapo crap, lie about somebody and then make them prove it. Well Adolf, Stalin, Khaddafy or what ever your real name is, the proof is on you.

You made the allegations now prove them to be true. If you do not I am calling you a bold face LIAR here and now.

I sure will not give any personal information on this site with people like you running around.

SO ONCE AGAIN WHERE IS YOUR PROOF - You made the allegation now you prove it.

From Wikipedia

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[3] than others.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[7] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized corollary that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful.[8]
Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis. The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate. In effect committing the fallacist's fallacy. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, since this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.
While falling foul of Godwin's law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose their argument and/or credibility, Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.[9] Similar criticisms of the "law" (or "at least the distorted version which purports to prohibit all comparisons to German crimes") have been made by Glenn Greenwald.[10]
[edit]History

Once again, Navy loses.

Just like every other day.

Interesting, you would like me to do what you are not willing to do. Interesting. "I do not have to prove anything". Me too, Me too.....LOL You sure can rant with the best of em....

I can tell you one thing....I don't need sympathy, or a "handle" to attract it. I don't need to wear my DD 214 on my shoulder. Why do you feel the need and why do you get so upset? Something don't add up here.. My time in Uncle Sam's Army tells me so!

I take my hat off to you. At least you didn't run and hide.......You get a little nasty, but I can handle it.

I had posted this before and was unaware of the source (a friend sent it to me), however Ben located it. I full expect them to poo poo this but here it is!

http://wisbuildblog.org/fitzgerald-addresses-effect-of-budget-on-schools/

Following that logic njnb you could say all of the Tea Bags who had the President dressed up like Hitler or Osama bin Laden lost their argument. Thanks.

You know I just can't seem to find any refers in recent history where a Dem on the House Floor the State of the Union call the President a lair or Dems showing up were a President is speaking with an AKM strapped to their backs. The GOTP has no room on this one. Get over yourself, you're not free from the mud slinging.

You WIN! Goodie, goodie gum drops!

Tony C;

Still waiting for the proof of your allegations, tying to throw it on me does not work. You made the allegation, not me, now you need to prove it.

Where is the PROOF. Come on Adolf, where is the proof for your allegation. You are not getting off that easy.

Maybe I should put up a few lies here about you and make you prove they are not true, like maybe you got a dishonorable discharge from the Army, maybe a criminal record with little girls - See where I am going. I do not believe any of that to be true, but hey by your logic and standards of proof - you prove they are not true. By your method I can say that and run away and tell you to prove what I wrote is not true.

Again, show me the proof of your allegations of fraud- I am going to keep this up until you show me the proof.

Nice try. Slander is a liberal trait..Do you really think I care what you say? Or, that what you say has any impact on my life? You are too funny. Seems you avoided my questions..... Again, you are asking me to do what you are unwilling to do. Funny you would think of those things...just saying....

keep it coming....I am having fun....by the way have you seen todays first time unemployment claim numbers? Up again. Waiting for the "blame Bush" talking point.

Tony C:

Nice try. Slander is a liberal trait..Do you really think I care what you say? Or, that what you say has any impact on my life? You are too funny. Seems you avoided my questions..... Again, you are asking me to do what you are unwilling to do. Funny you would think of those things...just saying....

And your slanderous personal attack on me that started this is different how?? You still have not provided ny proof for your slanderous attack calling me a fraud.

See, this is what the tea baggers do. They create the issue by a personal attack on me, then refuse to prove the allegations, then try to make the victim provide the proof what they lied about is not true instead of proving their allegations. Then they get mad and try to blame the whole thing on the one they lied about to begin with.

Get kind of dizzy logic.

Look, you slandered me first - so it is a tea bagger trait. I just responded first by asking for proof, which you refuse to offer and you escalated it from there.

You called me a fraud and I want you to present your proof. I am a US Navy Veteran with a service connected disability, an no it was not for a stubbed toe. It was serious enough to have several thoracic surgeries at the Balboa Naval Hospital. Those are the facts, period and I do not have to prove anything.

Tony C, needs to provide the proof that I am a fraud or an apology - Nothing less is acceptable at this point.

SHOW ME THE PROOF - I want to see it or you are a "liar" I do not have to answer your question. You are the one who made the allegation and you are the one that needs to prove your case.

I guess you told me.....Teach me how to do that cut and paste, because I don't know how....really. Not joking old buddy.....

You are right, you don't have to prove anything......nor do I.....a point that seems to escape you.

Carry on sailor.....carry on.

Tony C:

Enough said and thank you for your service to this country. Bless you and your family. Maybe we can exchange some old Navy stories. I was in during the Viet Nam conflict, was drummed out with a disabilty that could not be corrected about a year before it ended.

Be well and keep the wind at your back.

John, the census data is on line. By the way, as a result of the decenial census, Census 2010 as it was called, Texas picks up 4 seats in the House Of Representative. The Obama campaign is really afraid of Rick Perry and is paying money to people to criticize Perry. Check that fact out as well.

The new bumper sticker reads:

Perry: In Your Guts, You Know He Is Nuts.

It's amusing watching people try and defend Texas's "workin poor" economy, Perry wants to take it nation wide, who the hell do people think they are wanting a job that pays the bills, has health insurance and provides for a dignified retirement? Only wealthy republicans are worthy of such luxuries.

sparrow, If you live in Texas and you are so dissatified, move to California. Higher taxes, weak economy and all the social welfare programs you need to "make" a living. Go for it....

Links???????

Otherwise you are just talking out of your azz.

BTW: R u from Texas?

I am, and business is good, some weeks even great. My house is up in value, never went down. Unemployment is below the national level. These facts scare Liberals and Obama.

BTW: Mind your damn business. And BTW, get off your azz and look it up, the info is out there.

Why should I look something up that YOU are claiming. Like I thought, another Liberal azz-talker.

I am and business is good in Texas. Now, take my advise and move to California., take your bitter nasty attitude with you. You will love it in California.

If you need a minimum wage job, move to Texas. If you want your kids to have the worst education in the country, move to Texas. If you are a minimum wage worker and your kids go to school and you want to pay 740.00 a year for your kids to ride the school bus, then move to Texas. If you want the worst health care benefits, then move to Texas.

Thanks for the mis-information....Same advise applies to you. If you live in Texas, you should move. We won't miss you. I say Nevada or California. Pelosi and Reid will take good care of you.

I can tell you, but I know you wont believe me. You can ask any technical person in the midwest where they get the most fo their head hunter calls from! It restarted about 1 1/2 years ago and to this week I get 2 to 4 emails of calls from headhunters looking to fill low to mid 6 figure tech jobs in Dallas Austin and Fort Worth! Ive already lived in Texas (Norht Richland Hills) and have no plans to move back. (One of my ex's resides there )

The liberal media is trying their best to paint Texas in a bad light. You are right. A comparable job in Texas will pay a higher wage and or salary when compared to what that job pays in another state. There is plenty of high paying jobs here. More and more people moving here as well. Yes, we have fast food jobs, just like every state. We have more fast food places as well so more jobs in that indusrty. The real facts will come out. But there will be those that don't believe the truth. Just look at the economy under Obama. But some folks will blame Bush as long as Obama is in office, by the way so will Obama. Can you imagine if Patton would have just blamed the general who he took over for in North Africa and not took responsibility? We would be speaking German.

OooOooO I need a Wattaburger!

Funny. I don't like em. Wattaburger that is.

Daft Bastard!

What's not to be afraid of with Rick Perry? He's a Tenth Amendment crazy who thinks most of the nation's laws are unconstitutional and states can secede from the Union, a hypocrite who complained endlessly about the stimulus package before using that money to the hilt, a tool of the wealthy who's fully on board with the WalMart-ization of America, and a hardcore religious nut who believes it's the duty of fundamentalist Christians to install a theocratic government in order to get the Apocalypse started.

His election, however unlikely, would be catastrophic for the United States of America.

@ John, compelling imagery of a right-wing zealot

Good morning Nash. Hope all is fine.

I noticed you made quite an effort to comment on former VP Dick Cheney, but no one had responded. I felt bad for you, so here is a response.

From your writing, it seems you don't have much of an appreciation for Mr. Cheney. Now coming from you, that certainly is a stunner.

Have a great day Nash. And I voted for you. And look, now you have a little star! Isn't that special?

Here's the broom Nash - Smiffy just left you a steaming pile on your porch...

Why is JoAnna sleeping on my porch? Did Fairfax Bill kick her out again? Anybody got a bootstrap she can use to pull herself up?

Edited to add:

Thanks for the broom Feisty . . . but apparently Miss J is sleeping off a hate bender this morning . . . maybe Fairfax Bill will take her back so she won't have to wander the thread pooping everywhere anymore! :o)

I have a question for you, Nashville. Can you tell us some more funny comments like you did a couple days ago? You know, the one where you told us that White (or any non-black) people in America who have graduated from high school, acted responsibly and got good jobs, owe it all to their ancestors passing money down through generations? That was truly hilarious. It was a real typical liberal thing to say. Full of victimhood, excuses, whining and"you don't know what it's like" BS. C'mon. You got any more? I could use a good laugh.

And please don't tell me to kiss your black a$$. I doubt if my mouth is wide enough to cover such a wide area.

Amen, Nash----I can't tell if it is ego that pushes Cheney (my guess) or that all his Halliburton money isn't enough and he wants more from the books. I guess it could be both but I do wish he would go away. What historical value could there be in anything he says?

but apparently Miss J is sleeping off a hate bender this morning

Today is any different HOW? lol

You can keep the broom - you're gonna need it! ;o)

Dear Damage:

I am flattered that you have so much time to think about black foks . . . and my a$$ . . . enjoy!

Greedy:

If you are going to throw rocks at my window, know whose house you are at . . . Nash is a woman . . . a BLACK woman . . . this fascinates Damage very much . . . he/she/it likes to have race based conversations for some reason . . . oh well, everyone has to have something, right? I mean, slaves weren't victims . . . they were well cared for helpers with a "mentality" issue . . . tee hee hee . . . gotta love the hate ravaged mind . . . it is good for entertainment if nothing else! :o)

Greedy,

I am going to "assume" that you are talking to me . . . if that is alright with you . . . now . . . wtf are you talking about?

What did I say that would change based on your race or gender?

The answer would be nothing . . . it is curious how touchy folk get just for the hell of it . . .

Know what is funny . . . none of ya'll can't think of a damn thing that Dick Cheney has done for America . . . so now, we change the topic to race . . . our FAVORITE bug - a - boo . . . and Damage . . . paid troll that he/she/it is, is a pro at taking comments out of context and putting words in your mouth that you never said . . . all to distract from the fact that the Republican Party has ZERO ideas for America and is responsible for the pile of sh!t everyone is tap dancing around . . . but hey, let's talk about race . . . that will solve all of our problems . . . and of course my a$$ . . . that is important too . . . and let's figure out Greedy's race and gender . . . that is very important as well.

I've heard of grasping at straws, but seriously, this new crop of "phony outrage" trolls is pretty weak.

Next.

Answer the question NASHVILLE. Explain to me how a Korean or a Cuban who came here 15 years ago with nothing but the clothes on his back , is now the owner/operator of a successful business, but people who have been here for generations can sit around and whine about "lack of opportunity?" The Korean and the Cuban didn't have any wealth handed down thru generations, did they? There are plenty of lazy, irresponsible, worthless Whites too. Only difference is, they don't have a built-in, ready-made excuse.

You know Greedy, nobody actually invited you over, so if you don't like things, you could just stop posting.

I mean, I exist to meet your needs, right?

The simple fact is, YOU came to MY porch with what you thought was a witty comment, now that the homeowner came out, looked you in the eye, and asked you the reason for your visit, you act like I am bothering you.

Perhaps if you actually had a biz other than stirring up sh!t around here some of this could be avoided.

You poor mistreated miscellaneous race person you.

And I say that in love.

Damage:

It is not my job to explain things to you. I did not say anything remotely resembling what you are saying.

So in closing, get off my porch.

from Nash.......Can anyone name anything that Dick Cheney has ever done for America?

Nash, I guess the question should be 'name anything that Dick Cheney has ever done TO America?

...but I bet that won't get an answer because the responses would be too horrific.....maybe they will bring out the "Keep America Safe" talking point.......lol (sadly)

Nash......at least she CAN fit on your porch!

jos,

not a compliment, dear, I happen to know that Nash's porch is a WRAP AROUND,...so when JAS sits around it,...she sits AROUND it.

okay, sorry, that was rude; but seemed funny at the time. (disclaimer, I have no idea as to smiffy's size, just took the cheap shot. Shoots and scores!)

broom, fiesty's requires a back-ho

LMAO.....Now thats funny!

All that back and forth and I STILL don't know what Dick Cheney has ever done for America.

Damage123

Typical lib thinking: The amount of $$$ dumped into something is directly related to how successful it is. Wrong.

You're using a typical wingnut tactic: avoid acknowledging an inconvenient fact like how badly Texas ranks in education by accusing a "lib" of making an argument he did not make -- what's commonly known as a straw man argument, which in this case is your lie that Navy claimed that the money "dumped" into a program is directly related to its success. No wonder you like Slick Rick Perry. He's even more dishonest than you are!

The Navel Man said that it was stupid for Perry to cut $4 billion from education when TX ranks so low in education. Right? Right.

Brain Damaged

The Navel Man said that it was stupid for Perry to cut $4 billion from education when TX ranks so low in education. Right? Right.

Right. Perry WAS stupid. You can't solve all problems by throwing money at them, but you certainly aren't going to make a bad education system better by cutting the education budget that forces teachers to be fired. Or do you think teachers are unnecessary for education since kids can learn everything they need to know by watching Fox News?

Houston, you should move to California. Higher taxes, weak economy and all the social welfare programs you need to "make" a living. Good luck on your trip. Take I10 and go west...Just trying to help.

Tony C-2383666

Houston, you should move to California. Higher taxes, weak economy and all the social welfare programs you need to "make" a living. Good luck on your trip. Take I10 and go west...Just trying to help.

The current governor's Republican opponent praised how great California USED to be. Unfortunately, she was talking about the time back when the current governor had been also been the governor as well -- back before the ultra right won their crazy referendum on property taxes and a two-thirds rule was imposed on the legislature's votes for raising taxes. The far right turned California into a basket case, just like they're threatening to do to the other 49 states now in their new guise as teabaggers.

So, California's not the place to be.....Try...lets say Illinois.......Cook County or just Chicago?

Tony C-2383666

So, California's not the place to be.....Try...lets say Illinois.......Cook County or just Chicago?

Hmm. The Illinois unemployment rate is 9.2%, about the national average. But why Illionois? why not that heart of flaming liberal darkness, Massachusetts? Could it be because you already know that the unemployment rate there is 7.6% -- 0.8% lower than the rate in Slick Rick's corporate paradise here in Texas?

It was just a suggestion...I just don't want you to be so unhappy living in Texas. You really need to go where you will be happy. Need to warn you. There is a reason why they call it Taxachusettes. Get ready to pay some taxes you never heard of...like personal property tax. Occupational Tax....that may be Pa. though. Yea that city sticker for your car in Chicago and other Illinois cities is expensive. Not a good choice.

Tony C-2383666

It was just a suggestion...I just don't want you to be so unhappy living in Texas.

You seem unhappy living in America. Why don't you move somewhere that has the limited government you pine for, like Somalia? Only the strong survive there and the weak are culled from the herd. I'm sure you'd do just fine among the warlords and pirates.

There is a reason why they call it Taxachusettes.

They have real jobs in Massachusetts, unlike the minimum wage jobs that Slick Rick created in Texas. But don't get me wrong. Texas isn't all bad. Houston is one of the two islands of civilization in the sea of wingnut idiocy along with Austin. And surprisingly enough, Houston and Austin are where the GOOD jobs are in Texas.

BTW: Obama won Harris County, the county that includes Houston. Too bad we didn't get a vote in the electoral college. The Texas electoral votes all were wasted on Moammar Khaddafi's good buddy, John McCain.

Obama winnning Harris county didn't surprise me and I knew that already and I know where Houston is located. I lived in Kingwood for a long time. No, Iam not unhappy living in America. I just don't want to see it turned into a social welfare state and go bankrupt like Greece. Wait a minute, the warlords and pirates are at that Greek Bar along the ship channel right now.....PS..there are a lot of high paying jobs in Texas, look on Monster and Careerbuilder. Stop repeating the liberal Perry bashing talking points.

Houston - Not to paint things so bleak, Obama won Dallas County in fact by a bigger margin then in Harris. He was within a hair of winning Tarrant (Ft. Worth) and close in Collin (Dallas suburbs). Also the border counties went for the President. Oops now that I let that out I'm sure the righties will make a correlation between the border counties and Obama's supposed amnesty immigration policies.

County
Obama
McCain
Vote Margin

Harris
588,611 (50.5%)
570,143 (48.9%)
18,468

Dallas
424,468 (57.5%)
309,477 (41.9%)
114,991

Bexar
275,023 (52.4%)
245,932 (46.9%)
29,091

Travis
253,278 (64.1%)
136,671 (34.6%)
116,607

El Paso
121,589 (66.0%)
61,598 (33.4%)
59,991

Hidalgo
90,122 (69.1%)
39,614 (31.4%)
50,508

Cameron
48,401 (64.1%)
26,641 (35.3%)
21,760

Jefferson
44,854 (50.9%)
42,877 (48.6%)
1,977

Webb
33,435 (71,5%)
14,111 (28.0%)
19,324

Maverick
8,554 (78.2%)
2,316 (21.2%)
6,238

Starr
8,283 (84.5%)
1,488 (15.3%)
6,795

Val Verde
6,982 (54.5%)
5,752 (44.9%)
1,230

Jim Wells
6,683 (57.8%)
4,825 (41.7%)
1,858

Kleberg
5,251 (53.3%)
4,539 (46.0%)
712

Willacy
3,405 (69.6%)
1,454 (29.7%)
1,951

Duval
3,298 (74.8%)
1,076 (24.4%)
2,222

Zavala
3,263 (84.2%)
596 (15.4%)
2,667

Dimmit
2,692 (75.1%)
874 (24,4%)
1,818

Frio
2,405 (59.2%)
1,644 (40.5%)
761

Zapata
1,939 (67.7%)
918 (32%)
1,021

Brewster
1,819 (49.9%)
1,781 (48.8%)
38

Brooks
1,747 (75.7%)
556 (24.1%)
1,191

The 2008 election is over. Start looking forward. I know it is difficult. Obama doesn't do it either.

I guess we are suppose to accept the fact that YOU were in the room when all of the decisions were being made.

IntheMiddle, TX

I guess we are suppose to accept the fact that YOU were in the room when all of the decisions were being made.

No, I guess you'll have to accept the fact that I read the newspaper articles months before the Iraq war started that warned Cheney was "cherry picking" his intelligence and "stove-piping" then over the heads of expert intelligence analysts to avoid them identifying just how bogus Cheney's case for war was. As I said, the events since then have proven the authors of those articles right, no matter how much you don't like it. Deal with it.

I was prepearing to covertly go back into Iraq while you were reading your precious NYT, WaPo or any other Liberal rag out there. Don't tell me to deal with anything.

It is because of people like me that you can sit your sorry azz down and read without the fear of being blown the F' up.

Reporters make shyt up too. They are not exempt from lying. They put their bias in articles all of the time.

BTW: Desert Storm 1991 was paused on a cease-fire agreement that entailed UN resolutions that needed to be adhered to by Iraq or the U.S. had the authority to continue......... The first Gulf War never ended......You and the general public have no idea as to what was going on between 1991 -2003 but I do and I'll depart this world with that knowledge.