When someone lands a sucker punch…

Ryan Rhodes, a leader of the group in Iowa, took on Obama during an open-air town hall meeting, which marked a moment of new intensity in the president's campaign for a second term.

Rhodes shouted out that the president's calls for more civility in politics had little chance of coming to pass after "your vice president is calling people like me, a Tea Party member, a
'terrorist.'"

It’s inspiring to see the President can level a knock out!

"I absolutely agree that everybody needs to try to tone down the rhetoric," he said, before going on to detail some of the more explosive charges that conservatives have laid against him.

"In fairness, since I have been called a socialist who wasn't born in this country, who is destroying America and taking away its freedoms because I passed a health care bill, I am all for lowering the rhetoric."

Obama and Rhodes later engaged in an animated conversation as he greeted supporters on a rope line after the event, and the activist later told reporters that he believed that Obama was indeed a socialist.

Emphasis added

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=AnVZ6qHbCOXyKaG3o061aPibvZx4;_ylu=X3oDMTQxcWhuN21jBGEDMTEwODE2IG5ld3Mgb2JhbWEgdGVhIHBhcnR5IHQEY3BvcwMxBGcDaWQtNDM2OTE1BGludGwDdXMEaXRjAzAEcGtndAMxBHBrZ3YDMTIEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3RkLWZlYXQEc2xrA3RpdGxlBHRlc3QDMzc2BHdvZQMxMjc4NDA3OA--/SIG=12n3qku44/EXP=1313586316/**http%3A//news.yahoo.com/obama-spars-tea-party-activist-023527637.html

*** Did Perry go too far?

Was he going rogue?

Or, was this being the all mavericky thingy?

The GOPTP campaign will be fun to watch. I was getting used to Romney's flip-flops, now I'm hearing outrageous,vicious comments from Perry. Perry will be getting tons of money from Club for Growth and Americans for Prosperity to pummel Romney. But the question may be can Perry keep his cowboy boots out of his mouth. It may not matter to Tea Partiers, but it was an issue for Democrat Howard Dean when he let out some primal screams in his bit for the presidency.

Feisty:

How true. The right starts it but when it is given back to them they cry like the little impotent babbies they are. They get mad being called terrorists when McConnell even says that taking Hostages is a good thing and he will hold America Hostage again to get his own way.

Sorry guys - Terrorists take "Hostages".

Good morning Navy,

Thanks for informing the confused low information voters.

The corporatist know that it's demand not tax cuts.

From an op-ed by Warren Buffet:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html

Tax Cuts Don't Boost Revenues

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1692027,00.html

For Paul Ryan (R-WI), who took lots of criticism for his budget which would partially privatize Medicare, it’ll cost you $15;

It's WAAY to early this morning to be reduced to hysterical laughter...

Are YOU freaking kidding ME?

Anything for a buck with these bastards....

Rick Perry is a fraud:

This is a governor that talks about how he balanced his budget. What he forgets to tell you is that he used over $6 Billion Dollars of the Federal Stimulus money to do so. Instead of using the money to create jobs he used it to hide a shortfall in the budget, trying to make himself look good at the expense of his people.

All those jobs he says he created – true to a point. What he does not tell you is that many of them came from the good years the Oil Companies have had, and most of the others are low paying jobs. In fact Texas leads the nation in the lowest paying jobs by State. Great State to move too if you want a minimum wage job with no benefits.

In addition, while the national unemployment rate is 9.1 percent and the Texas unemployment rate is 8 percent, some 23 states, including New York, have lower unemployment rates, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Perry often talks about the robust growth of jobs during his tenure. But jobs grew at about the same rate during Democrat Ann Richards' four years as governor. And they grew at a much faster rate during Republican George W. Bush's six years in the office than they have in Perry's 10. Even before the national recession hit in 2008, jobs grew at a slower rate in Texas under Perry than under Bush.

He thinks Medicare and Social Security are unconstitutional along with the HCR

He is anti-Gay, anti-women’s reproductive rights, anti-environment and anti 16^th and 17^th Amendments. For a list of the top ten see the link below.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/06/10/241830/top-10-thing-texas-gov-rick-perry/

Yesterday I asked Ira to help you understand that tax rates and tax revenues were not the same thing. I noted that Obama has the exact same tax rate as Bush did, yet Bush had revenue of 18.5% of GDP in 2007 while Obama’s revenue is 15% of GDP.

Your reply to Anna Molly was …….

He just does not get it. He is one of those tea party folk that like to play games with numbers

Gosh, seems pretty simple straight forward, but I guess if those numbers are too confusing for you, let me just say 18.5 is bigger than 15.

Actually it is about $500,000,000,000.00 (sorry 500 billion). In other words - If you asked Mr. Ed to tap out how much that is with his hoof, and he could tap $1 every second …… he would be dead about 16,000 years before he could have finished……(pesky numbers again, huh?)

Bottom line – Bush’s real revenue was over 6 TIMES the imaginary/calculated revenue of Obama’s proposed 2% tax rate increase per year.

Six is bigger than one and you whine everyday for one?

(BTW – If you can’t understand these numbers, what were you in the Navy …. a firehose?)

Just look at the last 10 years and where are the jobs and how is the economy doing there Bobby “Short Pants”.

First, when tax rates were lowered across the board in mid-2003, the incentive effect kicked in to jump start the economy immediately. Over the next 4 ½ years , before the financial meltdown slammed the economy – and that was a credit issue, not a fiscal one – 8.2 million jobs were created.

Jobs essentially rose for about 50 consequtive months.

Nonfarm payrolls rose from just under 130 million to just over 138 million.

Taxes on the top 2% have been the lowest in 60 years

I expect Obama to not know any better, or intentionally LIE, but you never noticed the posts about Reagan dropping the marginal rates to 28%? (They were also lower at 31% in 1990, 1991 and 1992.)

You realize 35% is not lower than 28%, right?

Not one economist of note will support that position.

The above in bold was a quote from one - Larry Kudlow in an editorial for Investor’s Business Daily.

Besides, how would you know …… any real economists use numbers such as 18.5% of GDP ……

Bev:

Thank you and thanks for the additional information. People just do not get it. If tax cuts for the rich create jobs and since we have the lowest income taxes in about 60 years - where are the jobs????

People, cutting the taxes for the richest 2% do not create jobs - it only increases the economic divide.

Warren Buffet said yesterday that he paid 17.4% in taxes (income and payroll tax) while the 20 people in his office paid about 36%. He said he would raise taxes on 3/10ths of 1% of the people. That is those that have a taxable income of One Million Dollars or more.

Problem is that the Democrats had already offered that scenario and the TP/GOP did not accept it. No surprise there.

A na Molly (that’s pronounced anomaly for Bev and Feisty)

(You said you were different from other libs right? - And you thought I didn’t pay attention to your comments ……)

Anyway ……..

Bob: The rich don’t collect welfare when their taxes are raised, they move their money to things like tax exempt bonds and then sit on their hands instead of creating jobs.

AM: Well, history says otherwise ……

Nope …… actually my point was proven almost a 100 years ago.

Internal Revenue records show that 206 people reported annual income of a million or more in 1916. But as Woody Wilson starting jacking up the tax rates, the number fell to 21 reporting a million or more by 1921.

After tax rates were cut, there were suddenly 207 reporting a million in 1925.

All of those evil rich people disappeared in thin air when tax rates skyrocketed but suddenly re-appeared with an extra when the rates were dropped?

Since you are not the typical lib nor I assume a believer in Martian abductions - I’m sure you see the obvious. (BTW – Look it up – page 21 of an Internal Revenue publication titled “Statistics of Income from Returns of Net Income for 1925.”)

“The government, which collected less than $50 million in taxes on capital gains in 1924, suddenly collected well over $100 million in capital gains in 1925. At lower tax rates, it no longer made sense to keep so much invested in tax-exempt securities, when more money could be made by investing in the economy.

……. Those in the highest income brackets paid 30 percent of all taxes in 1920 and 65 percent of all taxes by 1929, after “tax cuts for the rich.”

The above is from a Thomas Sowell piece – Can Republicans Talk?, Part II. (Sowell is a magna cum laude Harvard educated economist, with a Masters from Columbia and a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago who has taught at Howard University, Rutgers, Cornell, Brandeis University, Amherst and UCLA. He is a Senior Fellow of the Hoover Institute at Stanford University, is non-pale like Obama and oh yea …… was a Marxist in his 20s. )

…….. but if you’re right, then what is the difference …… why shouldn’t we at least get a little revenue out of it?

Why not just shut respirators off any one on them in hospitals too.

What a minute ...... that sounds like Obamacare ..... you are probably for that.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Good morning GF

*** Did Perry go too far?

Was he going rogue?

Or, was this being the all mavericky thingy?

No, he was doing the crazy thing!!!

From Ted, Mid Michigan:

Can you give any imperical evidence that the low tax rate of the last decades has produced any jobs, as promised?

See the above Kudlow quote and check it with BLS if you want. One note about the Bush quote though, Kudlow is critical of Bush and feels that if Bush had not de-valued the dollar and over spent – employment would have been better.

Reagan dropped the marginal rates from 70% to 28%. He left a two-bracket tax code that cut thousands of pages of IRS rules and regulations.

Overall, Reagan’s policies created 21 million new jobs as real GDP averaged 3.5 percent annually during the seven fat years of recovery (at this stage of the recovery – Reagan’s growth was 7.7%. Obama’s growth for this year is less than 1%.) The unemployment rate dropped to 5.3% from 10.7% (at this stage of the recovery Reagan had already dropped the unemployment rate 3 points – Obama has dropped it 1 point from the peak and has remained at 9%+ year after year.) The stock market rose nearly 200 percent. And household net worth expanded by $8 trillion.

(The above is another Kudlow quote – not my words / except for inserts from another part of the article.)

Stock market?

If the debt and deficit are as important as your team has been portraying over the last years, why would you not take an “all of the above” approach to solving the issue.

Tax is an additional cost at a time of ever increasing cost in a fragile economy.

Why add another stressor? Why not not all the above and not compromise it by adding a stressor?

Coupled with the fact the last tens years of historically low taxes has created huge deficit / debt and little to no success with job numbers, I’d call it a no brainer …..

Your premise is a liberal lie. The simple facts are…..

First, Bush created 8.2 million jobs before the collapse.

Second, Bush had 18.5% of GDP revenue in 2007 – higher than the historic average by almost a full point. How can above average revenue be the problem?

The deficit and debt problem is the result of spending.

Anyway, those are the facts, but as former House Majority Leader Dick Armey put it ……“Demagoguery beats data.”

One thing liberals understand, economic success is not the same as political success ….. and Obama is betting everything on demagoguery trumping economic success.

Pretty sad, huh?

Of the entire Republican field running, the most scariest and dangerous to the country is Rick Perry. The DNC just needs keeps hammering the Perry record and statements and we the people will see that this Tea Bagging, Red Neck Cowboy fails.

Beyond which, in very simple terms-

The Government Does Not Collect RATES.

They collect dollars. Even at a flat rate of ten percent, the person making fifty thousand dollars pays a lower dollar amount than the person earning five hundred thousand- or five million.

The people who DO NOT pay are those at the lower end of the income scale- even those firmly in the middle class-earning $50k a year- pay zero federal income tax if they have two children under 17.

There is nothing whatsoever "fair" about that- since these are the people motivated to vote to steal from others to supplement themselves. They're not even honest thieves- they use the government to do their rapacious work for them.

There is no question in my mind why Clyburn stated that he plans to use his spot on the "super committee" to "close the wealth gap".

Look out, America.

Did Perry go too far?

Don't worry he'll just flip flop out of it. First I was a Dem, then I was a GOPer, now I,m a pandering Tea Bag.

Feisty,

Thanks for your post of the exchange between the Tea Party activist and President Obama. This is exactly the rough and tumble conversaation Paul Ryan and his ilk are trying to avoid by charging constituents to talk to them! I am proud of the President for answering this man, toe to toe, and not shirking his duty to talk to the people who elected him.

no joe, no bo, nj

You crack me up. You don't think it's "fair" that a family of four doesn't pay federal taxes on an income of $50,000.

I'm sure they'd happily trade places with any hedge fund manager's family for the not-exactly-onerous taxes they pay on their outsized salaries.

If that middleclass family owns a home, they pay property taxes. If they own a car they pay taxes on the gas to run it. Unless they live in one of the five states without a sales tax, they pay tax on everything they buy except food.

More importantly, if they have a family member in the military, they pay the highest tax of all: worrying about their loved one, serving his or her country. Every middleclass family doesn't have a serviceperson, but chances are much greater a serviceperson comes from a middleclass family, than from an upper income home.

Bob -- While you focus on revenues consistently it seems you would be screaming at the entire Congress to get their act together on legislation that would promote hiring.

Congress has incredible leverage right now to haul in the profits overseas, to reform the entire tax system. Why not ask them why Country is not put first above politics???? All three of those things would create the revenues this Country so desperately needs.

What gives buddy....are these not important proactive goals?

Bob lotsanumbers:

I can cherry pick numbers too. I can do it all day and all night to make my point, but that's demagoguery in it's own right. There is no point in quibbling with your numbers. They are accurate, BUT only in a very limited context and that is the context of that time, that moment. A program that worked 10 or 20 or 50 years ago may not work today, and probably will not work today.

Look at the Laffer Curve. It is completely accurate, but it only describes an event that occurs within a specific time frame and thus, must be true. However, the Laffer Curve does not hold for every period.

The real problem our economy facts is two-fold. First, and most important, its underlying premise is that economic growth can outstrip population growth forever. How this idiotic assumption endures is beyond me. The planet and its population have finite limitations. That's just the way it is. The second problem facing our economy is that President Obama simply doesn't seem to have the wherewithal to lay out the nasty truth, which is that we have entered uncharted economic waters. Like all politicians he does not want to tell us that we are not living in a fairy tale. Like it or not, that is the central plank of every platform of every party - a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, high-paying jobs, chips, dips, and Super Bowls.

The fact is there is only one thing that can return the United States to prosperity and even then it is going to be a drastically re-defined notion of prosperity. The key is energy - always has been and always will be. However, before we can deal with new energy sources, energy storage, and efficient transmission, we have to deal with a disastrous educational system. That almost assuredly puts a vibrant economy at least 15 years into the future and that future is going to mean unemployment rates in double digits. In today's terms probably around 30 or 40%, which is not necessarily a bad thing. As I said, it's going to be a whole new idea of "prosperity".

The numbers? Forget 'em. They really don't have any relevance to an economy that has absolutely no resemblance to what we've seen in the past.

Ahh..AnnieRich, of the TP birther sector rears her misinformed little head ,ad nauseum. Please give us all a link to VP Biden specifically saying the TP are terrorists. I would also like a link to any facts that our President is a "Chicago street thug and fights like one". You are, of course, entitled to spew your opinions, however misguided they may be, but you are not entitled to revise the facts. The TP are economic terrorists, but that's just my opinion...;-)

bob: Nice job posting the evidence of real job growth because of lower taxes. Of course now you'll have to put up with the leftwing loon spinners again denying the very facts you presented. It's all voodoo to the Left anyway. They want their higher taxes on the "rich" and they want them now! It's all about revenge on the "rich" to them anyway.

Even Obama has figured it out. Do you think he didn't know increasing taxes like he could have last December would do nothing put drag the economy further into the ditch? Now Obama has to go back into spin mode and talk about increasing taxes, and not doing anything about it. Same-old. Same-old.

Dont,

Yea, I'm focusing on revenue - revenue through growth / jobs is what the country needs.

And yea, we need tax reform.

Won't happen ..... how could Obama, the dems and big government repubs pick the winners and losers without manipulations through the tax code?

JoAnna -- What is you position on say....Capital Gains Tax???? Think there is a little room there for growth???

Bob -- Well you are finally addressing my posts....

How about LEVERAGE, that's a real bargaining tool if you use it. Power is a mighty thing when you use it for good.

JoAnnaSmith,

Yep ..... demagoguery beats data, huh?

One of the funny things about Obama and tax the rich is that in the debt ceiling debate and even now, he calls for tax hikes AFTER THE NEXT ELECTION not now.

Even the Obama economic idiots know what it would actually due to the economy and markets.

If he wins in November ...... it's Obamageddon time.

I am enjoying my morning coffee while reading all of the panicked progressives on hear. They conspire together prior to posting each taking a different attack point on a man who puts fear in their hearts. Governor Perry will unite the right (all factions), conservatives, independents and moderates (especially Hillary backers that have had their hopes and dreams of change dashed). Remember when you demonize Perry's job creation, you demonize the national statistics when this failed administration touts "private sector jobs." I wonder where that unemployment rate would be without Texas attracting business to create these new "minimum wage" jobs?? I'm guessing in double digits. In fact I know many, many people that would welcome a minimum wage job at this time.

This is enjoyable reading coming from the progressives -- like the Sunday comics. You write as if you are telling the world; spreading the word; speaking for all while in reality each one of you alternate being the center in your own little circle jerk. Keep it up. I love to laugh.

Bob: Yep ..... demagoguery beats data, huh?

Every time.

Still hating I see notsojolly.

As long as Perry really p.o'd. the paid bloggers and the parrot following of cut and paste morons out here, then NO, he did not go to far. From the looks of how fiesty, navy, and the rest of the keystone cops are posting with thier panties in a twist, I'd say Perry has hit it dead-on. Blog away you little monkeys, you are behind in your propoganda spewing.

Navy ~ Good morning, and great post.

Always remember Cardinal Rule of Conservative Rhetoric # 116:

Keep saying that tax cuts create jobs, until someone bearing empircal evidence points out that they don't, and then reply, haughtily, "Well, it's actually demand that creates jobs." When someone bearing evidence points out that there is no demand because there are no jobs because corporations are sitting on $2 trillion in cash, deflect by saying that the corporation's only purpose is to produce profit for its owners, and keep banging this drum even though right now corporations like Apple, with $70 billion in the bank, are not making profits on that money, or even much interest, and are certainly not distributing those profits to their shareholders. And when finally confronted with the facts that profits are being generated in this economy primarily by slashing jobs to increase productivity, as I posted yesterday, then just pound indignantly on the table and cry "Class Warfare!!!!!"

Obama and Rhodes later engaged in an animated conversation as he greeted supporters on a rope line after the event, and the activist later told reporters that he believed that Obama was indeed a socialist.

Pretty well sums it up, doesn't it? The GOPTP and greater Conservative Movement have a First Amendment right to tell any lies they choose about President Obama (and they do have that right) but their positions and egos are too fragile to withstand any criticism from the other side.

That couldn't be more obvious than when you look at the above in connection with "town hall meetings" that don't even include the actual lawmaker in question, only hired representatives. Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, and other heroes of the Teapublican caucus are afraid to even face the public they supposedly represent. Meanwhile the President of the United States is, even today directly facing anyone who chooses to show up and address them honestly and directly.

The contrast couldn't be more clear.

@JohnB -- the failed downgrade president is facing the public out of fear for his job. At least he has the intelligence to see that it is extreme jeopardy now.

Hey David,

I think the obvious take-away from the Laffer Curve is that tax rates do effect behavior. Tax behavior is elastic, is dynamic as opposed to static - dems never seem to acknowledge this.

First, and most important, its underlying premise is that economic growth can outstrip population growth forever.

That's pretty interesting, especially coming from an atheist.

Regardless, California, the most beautiful, the richest state in resources and appeal, a state that had everything is now on the road to just being another marxist/liberal failure ....... in 20 years!

The United States cannot give Obama 8 years and be anything near what it was.

The second problem facing our economy is that President Obama simply doesn't seem to have the wherewithal to lay out the nasty truth, which is that we have entered uncharted economic waters.

The "Hope and Change" guy can't lay out the nasty truth? The guy that promises to lower the tides, promises everything including free abortions, free birth control ......

Yea, I agree - Obama doesn't have the wherewithall and has led us into unchartered economic waters with his big government ideology. (My words - not trying to twist your meaning)

Like all politicians he does not want to tell us that we are not living in a fairy tale.

Obama talks about fair everyday - it's not fair the rich have so much / the need to spread the wealth .....yep statism, socialism, etc is a fairy tale that has never worked.

Like it or not, that is the central plank of every platform of every party - a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, high-paying jobs, chips, dips, and Super Bowls.

I agree, at least until now, I have never doubted that. I don't know a tea partier, but if there was ever a time to react and challenge that notion - could it be the evil tea baggers?

The fact is there is only one thing that can return the United States to prosperity and even then it is going to be a drastically re-defined notion of prosperity. The key is energy - always has been and always will be.

Absolute truth.

However, before we can deal with new energy sources, energy storage, and efficient transmission,

We are developing new energy sources everyday, new technologies, new ways to make them cleaner, etc., but they are not the green dreams - they are our fossil resources.

And we are the richest country on the planet, we have centuries of energy independence, centuries of great jobs ....... yet Obama is killing the fossil energy industry.

we have to deal with a disastrous educational system.

I agree. Unions are not the answer. Big government bureaucracies have not been the answer, are the reason it is so pathetic.

Sorry this response was so slow ... interruptions, but thanks for your comments, David and welcome back. I enjoy your unique perspective, free thinking and originality. Very refreshing from the thinkprogess reguritations.

Bob - In your wet dream...Hah!! Perry is no threat to Democrats because he's a raving lunatic that will be exposed as such. Once Americans get a gander at what his ideology is they will reject him resoundingly. So bring Perry on!!! As for TPer's complaining about being called "terrorists"....those crocodile tears are not swaying anyone.

Amy B. Portland, ME

Feisty,

Thanks for your post of the exchange between the Tea Party activist and President Obama. This is exactly the rough and tumble conversaation Paul Ryan and his ilk are trying to avoid by charging constituents to talk to them! I am proud of the President for answering this man, toe to toe, and not shirking his duty to talk to the people who elected him.

Amy, I saw that exchange and almost lost it.

First of all, why is a tea-bagger allowed to get that close to the President? Call me paranoid; but indeed these are strange times.I just don't trust these lunatics. Especially, with all the hate and bigotry being pushed by Bill O and Hannity over @ the FEAR FACTOR channel aka FOX NEWS blaming the social safety net for the London riots and for their prediction that they could happen here. Really they act like Radio Rwanda using scare tactics.

Obama vs. Tea Party Leader

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1112225273001/obama-vs-tea-party-leader/?playlist_id=87485

Will Violent Class Warfare Break Out in America?

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1103229984001/will-violent-class-warfare-break-out-in-america/?playlist_id=87485&intcmp=obinsite

The President had every right to remind those baggers of all the vile things they have said and done past and present. Had it been me I would have told it exactly like it is and said you are a bunch of terrorist and your ilk f***ed up America.

Dont_

How about LEVERAGE, that's a real bargaining tool if you use it. Power is a mighty thing when you use it for good.

Great point, but the problem is that the big lever resides at 1600 Pennsylvania.

Reagan used the lever to move the American people, to inspire, to lead ....... with the American people behind him the dems had no choice but to move.

Obama?

Obama uses a bus ..... to go around and whine and demagogue.

What good is that?

Bob -- When using this statement your words:

“The government, which collected less than $50 million in taxes on capital gains in 1924, suddenly collected well over $100 million in capital gains in 1925. At lower tax rates, it no longer made sense to keep so much invested in tax-exempt securities, when more money could be made by investing in the economy."

What were the Capital Gains rates in the late 20's? Are you making the argument that there is a little room for raising the Capital Gains Tax? Or are you of the mind "how low can you go... lower, lower, lower", this will raise revenues? Which is it?

bob...

Because that's what Mr. Obama is good at....demagoging issues and political opponents and stirring up class warfare.

He knows that just under half the people in this nation do not pay federal income taxes and those are the voters he is interested in. Add in a huge majority of public school teachers and Mr. Obama has all the votes necessary to remain on the job in 2012.

That's why a huge chunk of the 'stimulus' funds went directly to public school systems and into teachers' pockets as pay raises...he had we taxpayers buy those votes for him with borrowed money.

Bob -- The "baton" is out there the question is will Congress or the President take it and run......

laurie darling,

(sorry - I loved Lonesome Dove and btw- not implying your occupation)

Anyway, although I don't recall mentioning Perry, I didn't see another bob so I'll play.

Perry is no threat to Democrats because he's a raving lunatic that will be exposed as such.

I'm not a fan of Perry, but Perry is a consummate politician. He is a good ole boy, but is a big boy and will kick Obama's azz in a debate if he gets that far.

He is no "mittens."

Once Americans get a gander at what his ideology is they will reject him resoundingly.

Your problem is that America has had a gander of what Obama's ideology is.

Big government European style socialist who has accomplished nothing or good ole all American cowboy who gets things done.

Not my ideal choice, but I think Perry is pretty comfortable where America stands.

So bring Perry on!!! As for TPer's complaining about being called "terrorists"....those crocodile tears are not swaying anyone.

Really? You think name calling hurts them - too funny.

Pretty funny that the dems are so pathetic they are reduced to having to cry and call names.

Bob:

The tax code has for years been a fundamental tool of fiscal policy. Closing the charity/church loophole is one example. Oh Lawdie, we can't shut that down. Look at the creation of 401k's and other such investment vehicles, which stimulated saving and created enormous pools of capital.

The Laffer Curve is simply a representation of a tax policy. You could do the same with the capital pools and call it the "Bob Chart". Smart fiscal policy makes wise use of the tax code. Again, the success of tax cuts/increases turns on several variables - consumer demand chief among them.

How the fact that I am an atheist bears on the discussion is a mystery to me, unless you point to that as the reason that I don't hold magical beliefs like infinitely expanding economies or invisible super beings, which really belong in another thread.

With respect to uncharted economic waters, I refer to a saturated consumption economy. That has not been a serious concern of any past administration. That is the reality that no one wants to face, and it is unfortunately at the root of our failing economy. That however is a topic for a very lengthy discussion. Indeed, a fellow poster sent me an e-mail this morning that pointed to our disastrously shrinking manufacturing base. There's a terrible story in there and it's the one that must be addressed.

You couldn't be more wrong about the failure of the California economy. In fact, the destruction of the California economy tracks directly to two Republican articles of faith/dogma/ideology, both of which are found in Proposition 13: Massive tax cuts and a requirement for super majority approval of tax increases.

Blaming the unions for the failure of the educational system is pure, distilled nonsense. Teacher contracts are not unilateral. Union reps don't walk into an empty room and walk out with a new contract designed to fleece taxpayers. No Bob, there's two sides in that room. There's the teachers and their representatives, who have been very, very successful. On the other side of the tables we find the representatives of the officials we elect - a bunch of twits, who apparently couldn't negotiate with a three-year-old. Teachers win, the other side loses, and you want to blame the teachers for success. Aren't you a member of the party that says you don't penalize success? Oh yeah, that's right, you elect liars with secret agendas to beat up on successful people.

The truth is that the failure of the educational system is not at school. Hell no! It's at home. In a year, a teacher will spend approximately one in every ten hours with a student. 1 IN 10. The balance of the time - that's 90%, 9 in 10 hours - will be spent with parents. You know, parents - the first teacher(s) that kid will ever see. But that kid/student will spend its life in front of a TV/video game, sleeping, in day care, with a baby sitter, with his/her peers, doing just about everything but learning. And somehow this is the fault of teachers and their unions. Come on Bob, let's get real.

I'd sure like to see some proof that Obama is killing the fossil fuel industry. What he's trying to kill is irresponsible exploration. That's fine with me.

David -- You are correct in that the fault lies in the administrations and school boards and their lack of doing their job. Tenure is a good example....lazy non-union administrators failing to weed out ineffective teachers.

Something I very much agree with is the accountability for "poor" results academically. It is predominately a parental problem. Lack of involvement in their childrens lives...and quite frankly I would say apathy and denial of the importance of being totally engaged. The foundation is crumbling.

DW: On the other side of the tables we find the representatives of the officials we elect - a bunch of twits, who apparently couldn't negotiate with a three-year-old.

Oh, you mean the Democrats, who are bought and paid for by the unions, the very unions they are "negotiating" with. Any wonder why the teachers and their "representatives" (aka, the Union) are so successful? Like shooting fish in a barrel, right Davie? You'd think the taxpayer would get a say in the deal, and they have, at least in Wisconsin where the Republicans are telling the unions to pay their fair-share. It's always good to be fair, don't you think?

Just calling a spade a spade pal.

JoAnna -- The taxpayer does have a say.....Local School Boards.

David,

Real quick, no slight / nothing was intended by the atheist remark. Simply reminded me of corporate finance professor's comments along time ago - nevermind - my bad.

I have read a lot about the economy, uncertainity of costs certainly makes sense. Saturated consumption? That's a new one for me.

Manufacturing base? I heard the CEO of New Balance, the last athletic shoe manufacturer still in America, the other night. He was worried about all the new new rules and regulations - the uncertainity of costs in trying everything he can to keep the American facilities open - didn't mention saturated consumption that I can remember.

So does California have massive tax cuts - low tax rates? How about over regulation? What now ..... legislation controlling fitted bed sheets? (Answer is YES)

California is what it is. Please don't reduce yourself to a Feisty or Navy denier.

Education? Unions and big government and more and more money ..... and where are we? Who has been in charge?

Obama talks about S. Korean teachers ..... are they unionized?

And yea some parents can do better. The problem is that when you tell those people that they can't do it, we need big government to solve the problem, we need unions, we need more money - they say OK its not my fault. That's kinda where we are , no?

Enjoyed it David.

BTW -

Energy / responsible exploration?

Shells cancels $4 billion dollar project because Obama is now denying their permit (after 5 years of games), because their plan didn't allow for the co2 footprint for a ice breaking vessel?

Responsible is such a great term huh?

Can mean anything you want.

Well said, Dcia. When Conservatives make their attacks on worker rights they always conveniently ignore the fact that the negotiators are answerable to the electorate.

Thanks John. Having been a computer para in our school for a few years, active in PTA's, athletic boards, and in a contentious fight with administrators on utilizing college courses/AP's while in high school....well I think that would give me an advantage in this particular argument. : )

To my friend's on the right. When all of your searching is for not. Tea bagging republicans often turn to Obama. Attacking him. Name calling him. Attacking his record etc. BUT! I say verily unto thee. Many can see that Obama is more in the middle now. "Caving" as it were to the right and their ideals. BUT! EVERY president should leave his or her party aside when he takes office. Did Bush do that? His daddy? Clinton? Hmmm. Obama in fact represents us ALL. And the right would do well to recognize this and vote for him. Because even with all of the one sided political speak from the right everywhere the fact is Bohhner got 98 percent of what he wanted. ; ]

Obama has continued to work with the right even more then the left it seems to the right. So what is the rights true complaint about Obama again? ;] Hmm

Cheers

So... to restore the economy like "The Reagan" did, all we have to do is do a massive build up of the military industrial complex? But I seem to remember that bubble bursting also?

Bob -- You make some good points as well. ; )

Bob, first of all you're pushing a story from LAST YEAR. Second, if they want permits they should just submit a plan that complies with the law;

The Washington, D.C.-based Environmental Appeals Board, a panel overseeing Environmental Protection Agency matters, on Thursday issued a ruling rejecting Shell's request that it reconsider a Dec. 30 order overturning two major permits that the company needed to drill in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas off Alaska.

Joining in that request for reinstatement was the Seattle-based regional office of the EPA, which issued the now-overturned air-quality permits to Shell last spring.

The EAB also denied Shell's request that a deadline be set for the EPA to issue new air-quality permits.

Disputes over the air-quality permits, which Alaska Native and environmental groups challenged as too lax, have set back Shell's plans to conduct exploratory drilling in Arctic waters. Shell last month announced it was canceling plans to drill this summer and fall in the Beaufort Sea because of permit uncertainty.

A Shell spokeswoman said on Friday the company remains hopeful it will secure necessary permits in time to drill next year.

"Having a process that is efficient and timely so that we can move forward on making business decision plans for 2012 is vitally important," said Kelly op de Weegh, spokeswoman for Shell in Houston. "We realize that we've got a road ahead with regard to the permitting process for the air permit."

Brendan Cummings, senior attorney for the Center for Biological Diversity and a critic of Shell's drilling plans, said he expects a new permit for Beaufort Sea drilling operations to be issued over the coming year or early next year -- as long as the permit complies with new requirements that greenhouse gas emissions be curbed.

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFN1114246920110212

I noticed that your complaint is that the concerns of a multinational corporation weren't given preference over the concerns of people who actually live where Shell would like to operate. For Conservatives corporations are always more important than people.

YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION!!!! The governor is mostly a figure head with little or no poswer--just another pretty face.

@Biteme-3470275,

"Little monkeys", "propaganda spew"

It tells us you have a brain disorder, that disorder is called: Hateracistfixnews functional disorder.

Obama to run against Congress??? It's overwhelmingly DEMOCRAT.

If Perry is going to run against Washington and the Fed - then we finally have the right man for the job.

The Fed created the housing bubble.

Washington put massive debt on our kids.

Keep your arms up Perry, it's going to be a long fight against those powerful interests

Obama to run against Congress??? It's overwhelmingly DEMOCRAT.

Then how exactly is John Boehner able to be Speaker of the House?

Facts are an inconvenient thing for Conservatives now that people actually expect the GOPTP to take responsibility for the consequences of the gains they made in the 2010 election.

Excellent opening post Navy. The right-wing can criticize Keynesian economics all they want, but supply-side voodoo economics is one of those things that has never been proved to work, certainly not in the long-term.

About the right-wing bullies who cry like a little school girl when someone stands up to them and punches them out, it's also been pointed out how desperate social conservatives are becoming. Listen to recordings of Bachmann, Perry, etc. when they do their Evangelical gigs, and the mystical quality they try to bring to it. The radical social engineering by the right-wing has been increasingly rejected by the rest of the nation. They are clawing and gasping to hang on. May the voters show them to the door.

John B - The Republicans make up 41% of the Senate, and 58.85% of the House.

When you take the average, less than half the Congress is Republican.

RIck Perry Lies:I would say that the disorder you speak of is straight out of your parrot handbook and is what you are obviously drowning in. I am able to think for myself without having someone with a cut and paste intellect tell me how or what to think, unlike you. Grow up and get smarter.

Bush's budget looked good because he and The Dick kept two wars of the books.

In other words, pretended we were not spending the money. Slight of hand from two pathological liars - who would have guessed?

Obama, correctly, put them on the books. After all, it is real money and you and I get to pay for them.

True Patriot - not so fast.

Texas balanced the budget, cut spending and CREATED ABOUT HALF OF THE NEW JOBS IN THE US.

We now have the largest number of Fortune 500 and 1000 companies.

10,000 people come here a day.

And despite over 1 million new people moving to Texas since the recession started, unemployment is well below the national average.

Compare that to Obama spending $200,000 to "create' a job.

Perhaps you should look at the liberal dreamworld known as Europe. Big Gov't spending only resulted in bankruptcy.

Navy says...

People – Tax Cuts for the top 2% does not create jobs – demand creates jobs. When people have money in their pockets they use it to pay their bills and to buy goods and services. As the demand for these goods and services increase companies hire more people to satisfy the demand.

Hmmmm? If navy is right about tax cuts for the top 2% not creating jobs, then its corolary that the bottom 98% getting tax cuts must obviously also apply. Our current economic outlook seems to bear this out, that tax cuts don't create jobs regardless of who gets them.

Numbers bandied about suggest that the 2% tax cuts if repealed would add about $800 billion to the economy over ten years, and that the repeal of all of obamas (bush) tax cuts would add over $3 trillion to the economy over ten years.

$300 billion in taxpayer stimulas to the economy each year for 2009 - 2012 sure seems to illustrate the effectiveness of tax cuts in a down economy over a short period, or perhaps the 98% really should be giving just a" little bit more" to boost demand. I dare say that the top 2% puts a significant % amount of more $$$ into the economy than the bottom 98% and definitely far more than the bottom 50%.

Then again, perhaps future uncertainty is playing a far greater role in generating economic growth from both a business and consumer standpoint than many think.

Regardless, from a macro viewpoint over time, tax cuts are an economic stimulas and tax increases will stifle economic growth.

american #### - For most of us, the problem is simple. Would you rather have your money or would you prefer the Gov't spend it.

Personally, I've never bought a hammer or a toilet seat that costs over $1000. Gov't does stuff like that all the time.

Let those who want big gov't have it in their state (if the other voters there want it).

The Federal Gov't has no business being this large. It defies Constituional limits all the time.

But if a state spends too much and goes bankrupt - there are 49 other places you can go.

What happens when the Federal Gov't goes belly up in a couple of decades?

States' rights are a firewall against bad Gov't. We don't all have to go over the cliff like a bunch of lemmings.

For Conservatives corporations are always more important than people.

Wrong. For conservatives, corporations ARE people. Ask Mittens.

Sorry John. You have a point in that statement.

Still waiting for your answer on which corporation is run entirely by robots.

My research shows every dollar earned by a corporation ends up in someone's hands.

But like the Democrats say: "Corporations are not people, they are robots or Martians."

Bob,

Good posts. Keep the faith. It will be tough to beat Obama though, since all his support comes from urban, high electoral vote, areas and these areas will not vote against him no matter what happens because they are also the areas getting the most government support.

Second, Bush had 18.5% of GDP revenue in 2007 – higher than the historic average by almost a full point. How can above average revenue be the problem?

Simple - if the economy is down, so is the GDP, and if almost all the decline is with the middle class and working poor, with the only increase being the wealthiest in the highest tax bracket, the result is inevitable - total tax revenue down, but revenue as a percentage of GDP is up because more of that GDP is going to the wealthiest taxpayers.

I was wondering how the teaparty types were convincing themselves that tax revenues had gone up during the Bush Jr. administration, when in actual fact they'd fallen dramatically. Now I know - they've convinced themselves with misleading statistics, like "revenue as a percentage of GDP".

BTW, the reason why the "revenue as a percentage of GDP" fell during the Obama administration is simple - his stimulus plan helped the middle class and working poor, and not the wealthy.

Where's Schpanky?

...I miss his comic relief...

Where's Schpanky?

He rammed his miniature Spanky into the wrong USB port on his shiny new I-Pad...

RIP little guy! ;o)

[He rammed his miniature Spanky into the wrong USB port on his shiny new I-Pad...]

Well, you know what they say...

...you can't fix...

(Feisty, I'll let you finish that one...)

I'd like to refer back to some Republican math and logic taking place upstairs a bit. On the issue of who controls congress,...

There are 240 Repubs in the House and 47 in the Senate, how is 287 a minority of 532?

If I take the average of your functioning brain cells compared to your IQ points,...I can clearly assume you're a moron, right? I mean it's right there in the numbers. Figures never lie; but liars figure,...There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics. Or in this case, Texas Math.

PS. Mickey, it appears that spanctravision has folded under your unrelenting pressure and become a MORNING guy. He kicked off the first post of First Thoughts today. They early worm gets the bird. And I am flying mine in his general direction.

I was just noticing that, Clara. Averaging averages is only one of the most basic errors in statistics...which Ryan proved by coming to a completely bogus conclusion.

...you can't fix...

OH NO you don't - I'm not gonna touch that... NOT evem with someone elses fork...

I'll have a order of fried Skanky with a side of bacon... lol

It's fried perfectly! lol

Internal Revenue records show that 206 people reported annual income of a million or more in 1916. But as Woody Wilson starting jacking up the tax rates, the number fell to 21 reporting a million or more by 1921.

After tax rates were cut, there were suddenly 207 reporting a million in 1925.

Could it be that raising the rate gave the rich an incentive to reinvest their earnings, so their earnings/profit would not be recognized as taxable income?

Reinvestments are good for the economy, so why not raise taxes on the rich?

"For Paul Ryan (R-WI), who took lots of criticism for his budget which would partially privatize Medicare, it'll cost you $15; Chip Cravaack (R-MN) $10; Ben Quayle (R-AZ) $35."

------------------------------------------------------------

Like I said, these Republican Tea Partiers are actually anarchists that only care about money. But being held accountable to the public they are supposed to serve is going to personally cost you if you ask them any question they don't want to hear. For them, the democratic process is only a way to politically gain power to make more money for themselves and their wealthy contributors. For them, power and money are interchangeable. (Sounds like either the cultural beliefs of the Ferengi in the Star Trek genre, or the manipulative philosophy of the Libertarian Koch Brothers).

Clara:

[PS. Mickey, it appears that spanctravision has folded under your unrelenting pressure...]

Pressure? What pressure...

[He kicked off the first post of First Thoughts today.]

Yes, I see...and as usual, it was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic...he probably missed his previous days' dose of Focusin.

Well let me just call it for what iswe should stop printing money because in all reality we are only slowing the harsh reality of the doom when have yet had a chance to face. Look around you do you really think Obama or ANYONE from the white house will save us? really think about it.. See i love this nation very much so because we have pride and believe in freedom but such honors we once had are being turned against us. Its not okay when we fired teachers (hurting our childern) or when a nation is in debt (So much debt that even if EVERYONE...was taxed at 100% we would STILL be in debt)

Soon our money won't be good anymore (common sense). No one will want american "dollars" because its "Cheaper" using another form of currency and if you want proof look at the what China recently said about it plans with its Yuan

("Beijing's ambitous goal to turn the yuan into a global currency rivalling the US dollar" ~Vice premier Li Keqiang)

Unlike the "U.S" china isn't in bad waters with outher surrounding places, Unlike the "US" china isn't seen as a bully.

You get the picture. American is no longer the top dog and all we have to blame is our "leaders" who are simply looking for money and power. So no the white house does not love you and No everything is not okay. We could have prevented this if we simply had honest folk in charge but we forget that human beings are not perfect and just because you have a title doesn't mean your a savior..

Truth is God should be running american. I think this was our first error when we put our lives in the hand of man like foolish people lost without faith.

In the coming years there will be much suffering, pain, and even death . But wait...i bet the white house will save us!! lol wake up...the white house is simply a bunch of old farts filling their pockets and then they will disappear.

Look up: www.EndofAmerican63.com

Perry said he doesnt believe Obama loves America because he didnt enlist in the military! Am I to assume that all the GOP/TP people running for office or holding office dont love America .. he married a woman that never enlisted in the military.. what does that say to the 98% of those under 50 that didnt enlist .. when did ben bernanke get the authority from congress to print what ever he wants .. sounds to me like another teabag sized brain candidate ..all mouth no brain

Why is it OK for Perry to down grade the President of the USA, because he didn't serve in the military, and he doesn't love America, states he is a UN AMERICAN and make a statement about a BLACK CLOUD over the USA. Then he says Ben Bernanke is a traitor and treasonous. ALL THIS IS OK, and they stand by what they say. However, when the Vice President, Biden stated that the TEA part were terrorist, that was uncalled for and outrageous. When that was actually true.

For years now the people on the right have been complaining that 40 – 50% of the American people do not pay taxes or they just do not pay enough while they are trying to cut the taxes on the richest 2%. These claims have been misrepresented in trying to lend some sense of justification for lowering the taxes even further on the top 2%. Currently income taxes in general are the lowest they have been in 60 years. The effective income tax rate for the top 2% is about 18%. For the rest of us it is about 23-25%. Hedge Fun Managers, some of the richest people in the world, only pay 15% because they get a tax break in that their income is treated as capital gains.

Either way, the claims are false. And the other day at the Iowa State Fair, the Newt had this to say which correctly states that nearly all working Americans pay taxes in some form:

As reported by ThinkProgress:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/12/295052/gingrich-rebuts-gop-talking-point-on-taxes-virtually-everybody-pays-taxes/

KEYES: There’s been a lot of discussion on the number of people who aren’t paying income taxes. Do you think people are paying enough in taxes?

GINGRICH: Well, first of all, virtually everybody pays taxes, ’cause if you go to work, you pay into Social Security and Medicare taxes. We have property taxes. Most states if you buy something, you pay a sales tax. So I don’t find too many Americans who think that they are under, or they are not being taxed enough. [...]

It’s technically true of the income tax. It’s not true of taxes in general.

Gingrich is correct. As ThinkProgress has repeatedly noted, Americans who are not subject to the income tax — primarily senior citizens, students, the unemployed, and the poor — do pay taxes in other forms, whether through payroll taxes, sales taxes, or state income taxes. Less than a quarter of American households do not contribute to federal tax receipts.

As for the richest one percent of Americans, they’ve continued to see their tax rates fall, even as income inequality continues to grow to unfathomable levels.

Below is an excerpt from a CBPP Report: - Emphasis Added by me.

MISCONCEPTIONS AND REALITIES ABOUT WHO PAYS TAXES

By Chuck Marr and Brian Highsmith – CBPP

May 26, 2011

Executive Summary

A recent finding by Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation that 51 percent of households owed no federal income tax in 20091 is being used to advance the argument that low- and moderate income families do not pay sufficient taxes. Apart from the fact that most of those who make this argument also call for maintaining or increasing all of the tax cuts of recent years for people at the top of the income scale, the 51 percent figure, its significance, and its policy implications are widely misunderstood.

* The 51 percent figure is an anomaly that reflects the unique circumstances of 2009, when the recession greatly swelled the number of Americans with low incomes and when temporary tax cuts created by the 2009 Recovery Act — including the “Making Work Pay” tax credit and an exclusion from tax of the first $2,400 in unemployment benefits — were in effect. Together, these developments removed millions of Americans from the federal income tax rolls. Both of these temporary tax measures have since expired.

In a more typical year, 35 percent to 40 percent of households owe no federal income tax. In 2007, the figure was 37.9 percent.2

* The 51 percent figure covers only the federal income tax and ignores the substantial amounts of other federal taxes — especially the payroll tax — that many of these households pay. As a result, it greatly overstates the share of households that do not pay any federal taxes. Data from the Urban Institute- Brookings Tax Policy Center show only about 14 percent of households paid neither federal income tax nor payroll tax in 2009, despite the high unemployment and temporary tax cuts that marked that year.3 This percentage would be even lower if federal excise taxes on gasoline and other items were taken into account.

* Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students, most of whom subsequently become taxpayers. (In a year like 2009, this group also includes a significant number of people who have been unemployed the entire year and cannot find work.)

* Moreover, low-income households as a whole do, in fact, pay federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data show that the poorest fifth of households as a group paid an average of 4 percent of their incomes in federal taxes in 2007 (the latest year for which these data are available), not an insignificant amount given how modest these households’ incomes are — the poorest fifth of households had average income of $18,400 in 2007.4 The next-to-the bottom fifth — those with incomes between $20,500 and $34,300 in 2007 — paid an average of 10 percent of their incomes in federal taxes.

* Even these figures understate low-income households’ total tax burden, because these households also pay substantial state and local taxes. Data from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy show that the poorest fifth of households paid a stunning 12.3 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2010.5

* When all federal, state, and local taxes are taken into account, the bottom fifth of households paid 16.3 percent of their incomes in taxes, on average, in 2010. The second-poorest fifth paid 20.7 percent.6

It also is important to consider who the people are who don’t owe federal income tax in a given year.

* Some 70 percent of people who owe no federal income tax in a given year are low-income working households. These people do pay payroll taxes, as well as federal excise taxes (and, as noted, state and local taxes). Most of these working households also pay federal income tax in other years, when their incomes are higher — which can be seen by looking at the low-income working households that receive the Earned Income Tax Credit (see next bullet).

* The majority of EITC recipients receive the credit for only one or two years at a time, such as when their incomes drop due to a temporary layoff; they pay federal income tax in other years. In fact, EITC recipients pay much more in federal income taxes over time than they receive in EITC benefits. A leading study of this issue found that taxpayers who claimed the EITC at least once during an 18-year period paid a net $473 billion in federal income tax over that period (in 2006 dollars).7 This finding shows that — while in any single year some taxpayers will receive refundable tax credits whose value may exceed their payroll tax liability — EITC recipients as a group pay significant federal income taxes over time in addition to the payroll and state and local taxes they pay each year.

Turns out that Mr. Perry has Texas ranking # 50 in turning out High School Graduates.

All the while ranking # 1 in creating Jobs at Burger King.

Independent Redneck Va.

Now we find out that he's a member of a Religious Cult.

And this is the fella that you'll are touting as the second coming.

Might want to rethink that position.

Just a thought there Bunky. Just a thought.

That is so true IR, yet they called the President "Messiah". This guy is so extreme he makes crazy eyed Michelle Bachmann look almost sane. she doesn't think SS & Medicare unconstitutional.

At least, not yet.

Bev:

Don't forget his record on people that have Health Insurance. I heard that Texas also has the highest rate of uninsured citizens of any State.

All this from the guy that stole over $6 Billion Dollars of stimulus money to shore up his Budget Shortfall to make himself look good. He also move the due dates on some liabilities into the next fiscal year to further show a more favorable budget number this cycle.

The man is a fraud in tight pants - I heard his nickname is "Crotch" - Another Tea Bagger moment.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Bev:

Don't forget his record on people that have Health Insurance. I heard that Texas also has the highest rate of uninsured citizens of any State.

All this from the guy that stole over $6 Billion Dollars of stimulus money to shore up his Budget Shortfall to make himself look good. He also move the due dates on some liabilities into the next fiscal year to further show a more favorable budget number this cycle.

Hypocrite, that's what I call him. The nerve of him to say government is inconsequential after he fraudulently, and underhandedly took credit for government money. There is not much of a difference between Perry and GW. If you were in another room listening, you'd think he was GW; lies included. He also has a fetish for hay; they all do.

The man is a fraud in tight pants - I heard his nickname is "Crotch" - Another Tea Bagger moment.

LOL, I bet Spanky likes him.

The Apostolic evangelicals IR mentioned believe they must control the seven mountains in order to speed up the Rapture. Three of these seven mountains to be controlled are the Government, the media, and the entertainment industry. Rick Perry has embraced this newest form of evangelical belief. Think about that. Democracy would die if Government, the media and entertainment is controlled by extremists, if it is controlled by one religion.

Jody, This is a apocalyptic fringe group. To even call them evangelicals is a misnomer.

Their bizarre beliefs is just another example of gnostic type sects that have sprung up since the 3rd century in the history of Christianity.

Why Evangelicals Should Stop Evangelizing

Jesus was the master of challenging religious prejudice and breaking down sectarian walls. Why do so many Christians want to rebuild those walls?

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/24/my-take-why-evangelicals-should-stop-evangelizing-2/

Holy hell IR did you talk with Steven Spielberg before you wrote that! Did ET ask you for some Reese's pieces! Perhaps you and Charlie Sheen have been "winning" something mind expanding!

Jody. Gov, the media, and entertainment are controlled by one party. They may not be extremists but they are to the left of the American people.

Jesus was the master of challenging religious prejudice and breaking down sectarian walls. Why do so many Christians want to rebuild those walls?

Well they like to wear the mask of Christianity to hide there sins. Seems to fools the small minded not only in this country but the rest of the world and supposed Christians aren't the only ones twisting their religious faith to get what they want (see Al Qaeda, the Taliban and Iran's Ayatollahs).

The part that confuses me is how if G-d is the driving force behind EVERYTHING,...Well, then didn't SHE install President Obama? Or is it just an off election for G-d and She has NO accountability in THIS presidency, only in Republican Presidencies?

I just can't quite get the pretzel to twist on this BRAND of "Logic".

Jody. Gov, the media, and entertainment are controlled by one party. They may not be extremists but they are to the left of the American people.

You're kidding right? GE and Rupert Murdoch are left of the American People? Hog wash! Get real. Have you ever heard of Clear Channel? Really? STFU!

LMAO!

In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, "what a marroon!"

Sinclair Lewis would have nodded sadly at the news of Rick Perry's prayerapollooza. He predicted it well.

Lisa: Rupert Murdoch is "left"??? My, my, my. Stop the presses!!!!

One slight correction Navy, the unemployed do pay income tax on the unemployment money and the individual gets to choose whether to take money out of your payments now or pay at the end of the year.

At the same time if you were making $10 an hour your umemployment rate would be $5 an hour. These people would qualify for being under the poverty line and probably pay no taxes because you are only bringing home $800 per month.

Rorshac,

That is exactly what I have been saying all along!!!! Didn't vote for him here and dang sure won't vote for him as President even though it would probably benefit the state.

@AF -- and to boot received a TAX INCREASE this year when the failed president' who downgraded America did not continue the first $2,400 of unemployment exemption. No tax increases for those making under $250K my foot.

No, Rupert Murdoch is not to the left. I was not referring to Fox news. Devie, You are a real class act. You could have simply disagreed without spewing profanity.

It's funny watching folks go for the throats of every single Republican even considering running for president in 2012. The media is on the case too.

It sure is easier than trying to give a couple of sane reasons why Mr. Obama has actually earned re-election....a nearly impossible task.

Devie, You are a real class act. You could have simply disagreed without spewing profanity.

Ouch! That almost hurt. Profanity? Those letters hurt your feelings? I think you had better grow a thicker skin if you want to post here. I'm fairly tame compared to most of the FR posters.

Devie, I have very respectful conversations with people on both the left and right. I simply don't think that insulting people is good way start a conversation. I have been posting here for quite a long time and even stop by DDI quite often.

@US Navy - Don't forget his record on people that have Health Insurance. I heard that Texas also has the highest rate of uninsured citizens of any State.

All this from the guy that stole over $6 Billion Dollars of stimulus money to shore up his Budget Shortfall to make himself look good

_____________

I agree with your statement about Health insurance. Texas is ranked at the bottom in providing health care for its citizens. However, not one to defend Perry or his policies but why the constant cry about him using/stealing Stimulus money? Are you calling him out solely for his hypocrisy, because he was against the stimulus?

Yes I know he did take money to help budget shorfalls in the previous bienium and did eventually take some available federal money for unemployment benifits and to help school funding. I don't care that he took federal stimulus money for the 2010 and 2011 bienium and then lied about it. My take is that the money helped keep state employee jobs, helped fund the school shortfalls and balance portion of last years bienium. This kept state agencies with only a mandatory 5% cut/dismissal rate in lieu of a 10% cut/dismissal rate that would have been required (note there was already a 5% reduction in 2009 before the 2010 cuts). I'm glad Perry was hypocritical and took the money to bolster funding shortfalls back then. If he was not hypocritical it would have been a harsher climate for state agencies, services and the the citizens of Texas.

Despite Perry's supposed great job creation, unemployment in Texas is over 8.2% right now compared to 9.1% nationally. There are some areas like the border counties and cities like Harlingen and Mcallen that are pushing close to 14%. As the latest NYT piece calls out the job boom has been more luck than Perry's creation. The oil and gas business has been booming with the new advent of fraking for natural gas.

One thing for those fiscal conservatives to know about Perry....

Deficits - The current 2011 budget ran nearly $3 billion in the hole so the conservative legislatures and governor allowed to use our rainy day fund to balance 2011. Now as we move forward into this bienium covering years 2012 and 2013 the projections where for nearly a $27 billion dollar deficit. So in response, Texas cut the budget to schools by more than $4 billion dollars. Additional cuts were made to every agency, some agencies were dissolved, state kids employee insurance was removed, state employee fees and insurance was increase while the benefits and coverages shrank.

In 2012 -13 for the first time in decades, the Legislature will significantly reduce funding for public schools Thousands of teachers will lose their jobs, and some schools may close….

The dirty secret of this budget is that it doesn't pay for itself. The two year spending plan only covers about 18 months of state operation. Lawmakers are hoping and praying the economy improves. Failing a state economic recovery the next legistlature the 83^rd Legislature in 2013 will have to pass a massive emergency spending plan. The state Legislature engaged in deficit spending and Perry signed off on it.

Lisa s - It says something about the person when instead of debating you they shout at you instead. I guess everyone sees themselves as open minded but I have to laugh at the ones who say well the right/left attacked first therefore I spew/attack back.

While I agree that you are perfectly alright in stating that the national media is to the left of the American people, from another's point of view they are to the right. In my view, I think the media heads (not the commentators) even at Fox couldn't care a bit about left or right. They are concerned about making money. Ratings are what makes things go for them so they will continue to play up the extreme Tea Party position of slashing spending. Although I realize spending has to be part of the equation; tax increases have to be part of the solution as well. Balance.

Wishful thinking - Now that this super committee has been created let them deal and hash out a compromise. In the meantime, our politicians have to shift to job creation. If the media wants to keep playing games they can look at the GOP race and its twists and turns.

I'll start looking for your posts.

Did Perry go too far? He sure did. Yesterday someone said of Pawlenty when he announced his withdrawal; Wow!, that was fast. Same with Prerry. He has just killed himself with the republican establishment, the wealthy, and all sensible Americans. He may yet win the nomination, but he's doa in the general election. Anyone who is the Governor of a state should know better than to spew such a diatribe against the US Federal Reserve. It's one thing to allow the ignorant and uninformed to continually bash this institution, but quite another when someone running for president is allowed to feed such crap to that pitiful state of being. The USA could not be nor could ever have endured had it not been for the federal reserve. I know from whence I speak and so do most others who are equipped with any quality of learning. Additionally, I find it "flamingly hypocritical" of anyone from the great state of Texas who goes about defaming the role of government in their lives. No state has enjoyed more federal subsidies, tax credits and generalized government larding, than has the state of Texas since just before ww1. These continue even today. Perry is too much a fool to be held in check by "handlers and minders" and will be caught many times spewing his ignorant pus. The republican party, the country, and Perry himself would be better served if He went back to Texas and surrendered himself to an able history professor. Fellow Texan "Edward Mandell House" is spinning in his grave right now.

Yellow-Dog Mark D, I was an advocate of Simpson-Bowles. I think if we would have bit the bullet when the Debt. Comm. came out we would have been in much better shape as a country. It may have prevented our fight over the debt. ceiling and our default. As for our news organizations interest in making money I completely agree. They all have a vested interest in what's good for their particular corporation.

lisa...

You are right on "Simpson-Bowles"...the president had them do the due diligence and prepare a menu of possible remedies to the nation's ills....which he then completely ignored.

More lip service, not action.

Finally a leader who has a track record of job creation.

You want to have the throwdown on Europe (Democrat policies) vs. Texas (Conservative ones)?

Bankruptcy vs. a balanced budget?

High taxes vs. low ones?

High unemployment vs. far lower unemployment?

Nanny state vs. Freedom?

We've got jobs, not riots down here.

We are ready to take this message to the American people. We can change course before we fall off the European/Democrat cliff.

It's not too late to save this country.

Yellowdog:

My point was that he took the stimulus money to fix the budget and then took the credit for having a better budget number. If he would have said he did that (used the stimulus to fix the budget) I would not have a problem since the Feds really did not put much control on how the the money was to be used. T-Paw did the same thing and so have others.

You make a good point if using the money to fix the budget did go to save public jobs. A job is a job - but I do not know if that was true or not and it appears that at best it may have just delayed the unavoidable.

True in that many of the jobs are from the Energy Companies booming business, the Military etc, that he did not control or create.

Thank you for your post I enjoyed reading it.

I can tell the Texas Fantasy is far more pervasive than the Texas Reality. The article speaks for itself and it's even from a Texas Liberal bastion (LOL - Dallas):

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20110215-texas-drags-bottom-in-enough-ratings-to-bode-ill-for-economy-house-democrats-say.ece

and for the jobs follow up - left open ended by the above article:

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2011/07/texas-education-job-cuts-may-haunt.html

and for the education cuts - left open ended by the above article:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/19/news/economy/texas_budget_deficit/index.htm

and, in general, Texas ain't all that and a bag of chips:

http://www.usnews.com/mobile/blogs/rick-newman/2011/8/16/rick-perrys-4-economic-vulnerabilities.html

I don't like Rick Perry and I don't trust Rick Perry; but above all that,...I am mortified at the thought that he wants to take these stats National. I for one am NOT on board with this Texas 'Miracle'.

Ryan in Texas:

Job creation? Isnt Texas among the leaders in minimum wage jobs??? That's GOOD??

As for Europe vs conservatives, the GOP hasnt been truly conservative since BEFORE Reagan.

Balanced budget? Hypocrite! Arent you aware that the last 3 GOP presidents signed TWENTY deficit riddled budgets that led directly to over $11T in debt??? If that didnt happen, we wouldnt HAVE a debt crisis??

Taxes are at their lowest since about 1950! Why do you support tax breaks for the wealthy and corporate elite when the seldom pay taxes at ALL???

The Great GOP Recession lost 8M jobs. Our unemployment rate flows DIRECTLY from that!!

The GOP has been planning to privatize SS, Medicare etc for 30 years. That's why they created this debt crisis. They want all that money to go to private corporations with NO GUARANTEE of services.

You've got MINIMUM WAGE jobs, AND a debt of $28B or so! Why is it that the right always seems to drive up debt?

You are already taking the message to the American people and they dont seem to like it very much. There is a HUGE backlash coming against you propagandists!

The only way to save this country is to destroy both the Tea Party and this version of the GOP must be destroyed at the ballot box. Given current events, that seems likely at the very least!

( Geee, it's so much fun destroying foolish propaganda! :))))) )

IR, I guess Perry, indeed, would be a president that would have miracles as his main initiatives. He thinks he is anointed by God to make the federal government disappear." He want to repeal the 16th amendment, eliminating the income tax which accounts for 80% of government revenue. But he gives no analysis how government would function under his vision." (NYT op-ed, Steve Rattner)

He is an religious extremist.

When I hear Perry, Bachmann and others talk about God telling them to run for President, I keep picturing George Burns in tennis shoes--Oh, God.

Jody:

George Burns would be a better President than mister tight pants.

You sure have a set of big ones Northstar calling Gov. Perry a religious extremist when the failed president downgrade had as his mentor a pastor for 20 years who spewed the most hateful and anti-American sermons. Oh, that's right, he was there but didn't listen.

A belief -- a strong belief -- in God is needed in this country.

When I hear them talk I see people who believe in something and not just gimme gimme I want yours too!

jos

I feel CERTAIN you typed that with a completely straight face. They ARE saying gimme gimme gimme,...but they are referring to your VOTE.

prolly time for jolly to step away from the kool aid,...someone done tainted it with a hallucinogen.

I think perhaps even more disturbing than Perry's religious extremism is his embracing of the "Tenthers." Sadly, that doesn't even put him outside the mainstream of today's radically Conservative Republican Party;

There is an alternate universe where everything violates the Tenth Amendment—and much of Congress lives in it. Senator Tom Coburn believes that all federal education programs, from Pell Grants to Title I to student loans, violate the Constitution. [1] Senator Rand Paul thinks that the federal ban on whites-only lunch counters is forbidden.[2] Senator Mike Lee believes that child labor laws, federal disaster relief, food stamps, the Food and Drug Administration, Medicaid, income assistance for the poor, and even Medicare and Social Security violate the Constitution.[3] And, of course, half Congress thinks that health reform is unconstitutional.

Surely it cannot be the case that nearly 100 years worth of major legislation violates the Constitution?

And yet, there is a growing movement on the American right that believes just that.

http://yalelawandpolicy.org/29-2/worse-than-lochner

Ben, were YOU in the congregation to hear those "hateful and anti-American sermons"?

Do you think calling for the end of sections of our government is pro-American?

fielden -- what a lame question. Of course not just like everyone else here who comments from news accounts and videos. The answer to your second question is a resounding "YES!!!!! Putting in a fair or flat tax and eliminating the IRS section of our government sure is pro-American. The only three sacred, non-touchable sections are the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches.

Maybe he could get on Rahm's staff in 2012 Tom......

UAW Pleeeeeeeease

Maybe he could get on Rahm's staff in 2012 Tom......

Oh please, Get Serious. It just may be the country boy coming to the big city looking for a job. After all, Perry may need a a job after all his millionaire bundlers drop him like Cristin O'Donnell will do anything for money.

Yes Please Chicago bound, Please go home

I'm still waiting for the Republicans to offer a serious candidate. The best they have is Ron Paul so far.

Krugman/Warren 2012

Talk about a terrifying top ten list...

Thanks!

Mav:

Ditto Feisty - Great Post Kudo's game - set - match.

Mav. Excellent post. Definitely need to read that book.

Perry's #9 argument about the New Deal and WWII is both ridiculous and a misrepresentation of the facts. WWII finally helped end the Depression because it was massive Government spending to fight the war, Government deficit spending that pumped money into the private sector.

Mav-3674058

Folks, please read Rick Perry's book "Fed Up!" it will scare the hell out of you if you haven't drank the republican kool aid yet. See top ten wacky ideas below

That is one scary ass book. t- baggers will eat it up.

Considering his grades at A&M, I wonder who wrote this book for him. this man may have even had trouble reading and comprehending the material. Most likely he had to have a interpreter.

Indeed Mav,

The Tea-Baggers, stuck on stupid club will love the book.

Yeah, because you have to be a functional illiterate to become captain in the Air Force.

What were Obama's undergrad grades, again?

What was his major?

Why are all of you Liberals so consumed with Perry? You are not voting for him anyway. You Liberals always seem to think you know Republicans better than Republicans themselves.

As far as his grades in college; I have never seen any grades posted on any of my diplomas and actually my degree reads the same as the 4.0+ student. They all read the same whether you are an A student or a D student. Most kids in college are just trying to do enough to get by.

Job1:

Who are you to judge if someone is stupid or not? You say some pretty ignorant things yourself most of the time. BTW: Lay off the nutz, they tend to get sore after a while.

NJNB thanks I was just thinking the exact same thing! I believe he he got a pass on the pass/fail course

Neighborhood Organization 101 and 102

Not like me who graduated with a 3.9 and received my degree in Culinary arts! Feisty can I cook you some special popcorn?

Yeah, because you have to be a functional illiterate to become captain in the Air Force

You of all people would know - somehow that son of yours managed to pass the Bar Exam...

After how many attempts again?

Hey, I'm just reporting what I heard; but someone said yesterday that "W" had the higher GPA,...now THAT's scary,...

Now there is another village in Texas pining for it's idiot.

Why are all of you Liberals so consumed with Perry? You are not voting for him anyway.

Why do Conservatives continue to make the vilest of accusations against President Obama instead of singing the praises of GOPTP candidates, lawmakers, and proposals? You didn't vote for him anyway, and don't plan to vote for him in 2012.

Wow! I thought that Perry was a nut job but Mav's post is a real eye opener! Rick is a certifiable right wing wacko of the most dangerous kind!

Why are all of you Liberals so consumed with Perry? You are not voting for him anyway. You Liberals always seem to think you know Republicans better than Republicans themselves.

Why ITM how nice of you to notice. Why I know quite a few Republicans, many are my friends and family members (much to my chagrin) and they have no trouble telling me what they think. Thanks for your obvious concern on this most delicate matter.

Liberally yours,

devie

Why do Conservatives continue to make the vilest of accusations against President Obama instead of singing the praises of GOPTP candidates, lawmakers, and proposals? You didn't vote for him anyway, and don't plan to vote for him in 2012.

LOL! Well said John. I have to go get something to clean my monitor now.

Why are all of you Liberals so consumed with Perry?

Why are all you conservatives so consumed with Obama? Why are you here on what you have labeled a liberal web site?

In the Middle

Why are all of you Liberals so consumed with Perry? You are not voting for him anyway.

The same reason you consume your self with President OBAMA.

Maybe because Obama is destroying the county?

You know, sky high unemployment, shrinking GDP, lower credit rating, incoherent foreign policy?

Those are my reasons, anyway.

Maybe you are for all these things?

You must be, if you still support the architect of all this destruction. Me, I'm looking for a change.

Now there is another village in Texas pining for it's idiot.

LMAO! Thank goodness I wasn't drinking anything. I'm running low on paper towels.

As the ability of a candidate that can beat President Obama goes up, so does FEAR BASHING by the Progressive Left in direct proportions.

At least the Old Disabled Navy Veteran has something logical to say for the most part. The rest don't seem to be able to come up with anything other than trash talk.

ODNV, I think we should have a straight across the board 15% wage tax on every dollar anyone makes and a small Federal Sales tax to pay for the programs we all enjoy like SS and Medicare. That gives everyone a stake in our Gov't and there will be no free loaders.

As a veteran myself, I think the best way to destroy a country is to give away its treasure to those that don't want to work. They will not appreciate it anyway.

Maybe because Obama is the GD POTUS. Perry is not the POTUS yet.

When Bush was running in 04, conservatives were not on the net denegrating that slew of liberal candidates at the time. We were at work and living life. Bush was the incumbent and whoever won on the democrat side was fine. We were fine with whomever you "brung".

Low and behold you put that lame azz, long necked, fake accent having Kerry on the mat. The rest is history.

ITM, you have a very convoluted, and erroneous, recollection of history.

Job1:

Who are you to judge if someone is stupid or not? You say some pretty ignorant things yourself most of the time. BTW: Lay off the nutz, they tend to get sore after a while.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read my lips; if you are a Tea Bagger, you are stuck on stupid.

Job1:

We read your lips constantly. They seem to be wrapped around nutz quite frequently.

You guys in Texas are number 1 in wrapping around the nutz.

[Maybe because Obama is destroying the county?]

I assume you meant "country"?

Anyhoo, that's just bullcrap and you know it...c'mon, we're all adults, right? You don't really buy into that farce, do you?

HoJo:

"...yes, yes I do..."

Wow - almost all the typical First Read kool-aid drinkers ignored on one thread. Glad to see the rocket scientists are sitting on the front porch of their double wides waiting for the check to come in the mail.

National Journal picked up on that very same idea with this story...

www.nationaljournal.com/governor-pawlenty-vs-candidate-pawlenty-20110815

It's a disturbing trend...GOP candidates on a national level running diametrically opposed to themselves. We saw it in 2008 with John McCain...the candidate he was in 2000 bore exactly no resemblance to the candidate he was in 2008. Now we've seen it with Tim Pawlenty...a Governor who in 2004 stood up to the bully tactics of Karl Rove but who prostrated himself to the Teapublicans.

Jody:

Now the fun begins as the "Real Rick Perry" is exposed as the liar and fraud that he is.

Bye Bye Rick

President Obama in 2012

DaNoid, didn't see the National Journal article, thanks for mentioning it. Nice to know my personal analysis is similar to the professional one.

Jody:

They are the only reasonable ones left in a Liberals' view. Oh but you don't vote Republican anyway, so basically your opinion is null and void.

Of course a lot of us Liberals will vote in the Republican Primaries.

I'm not sure about Governor Perry, but I believe the nation has had enough of President Obama.

Isn't this the kind of talk from TEXAS we were all hearing before JFK was gunned down in DALLAS?

Texas will vote for Perry, just to get rid of him. Like most demagogues, he doesn't wear well on a daily basis.

Dan G.-461155

I'm not sure about Governor Perry, but I believe the nation has had enough of President Obama.

The operative words there are I believe. I know the nation doesn't want another Texan and snake Perry.

Perry thinks he has a lot of skin in the game; but that snake is about to lose his skin.

Bye Bye Perry; you have been exposed.

Nobody but Obama /Biden 2012

Paul, sadly it is the same kind of talk.

Dan G. After listening to Rick Perry's Des Moines Register soap box speech, an Iowa republican was interviewed by a journalist. His comment was Americans don't need another flag waving Texan.

JoAnn, yes we are sick of him however, I would not wish this fraud on the rest of America. I can only hope that once he is exposed on a National level, we will finally get him out in the next election for Governor. I wish that he would be investigated for violating the Logan act when he visited Istanbu, Turkey.

Ok here is another measure for the liberals and progressives on this site! Its been fun to mark a measurable instance since in any project, milestones are what show progress. Navybouy has said

"Now the fun begins as the "Real Rick Perry" is exposed as the liar and fraud that he is. Bye Bye Rick" So lets see how long it takes Mr Perry to go bye bye! The last one was the Recalls in Wisconsin (we know those results)! Now we have this measurable! Vegas has 30-1 odds on navybouy to neither show place or win!

Right, Amy, they made that clear when they voted for Hutchinson in the primary.

Oops, no, they didn't.

Well, they voted for White, right?

Oops, no- Perry got elected to a third term with more than 55% of the vote.

I guess being a liberal means you chuck your brains in favor of lame talking points.

Fail, Amy.

Texas will vote for Perry, just to get rid of him. Like most demagogues, he doesn't wear well on a daily basis.

I certainly hope America doesn't fall for that slight of hand again. We are still trying to dig out from the last village idiot they pawned off on us.

Jolly -- If you believe in politicians/politics as the answer to our woes.....then point taken. If you are an economically minded individual...well, I would have to question your observations. : ) Pretty murky waters.

Dont you mean the country has had enough of this congress? After all Dan the repubs/teabaggers are the ones who have been blocking and filibustering everything. That is not what PRESIDENT Obama has been doing..lets be honest and put the blame where it belongs.

As for Perry? He can take his KTS agenda and attitude and go back to Texas! Anyone who purposes to secede does not deserve to be our leader! If he is so anxious to secede image what he would have planned for the rest of us if he did get elected? he would sell us all down the river! I have no doubts!

The people are misled by propaganda outfits like FOX "NEWS". Echoing their "thoughts" back to them is not genuine leadership. Most people are "sheeple".

What do you call Ed Shultz, Rachel Maddow and Chris Mathews? Fair and balanced would not come to mind. The "sheeple" are the "dependent" folks who are willing to accept what a government is willing or able to provide for them and who listen to this cry for social justice. Independent people who believe in freedom and taking care of themselves don't "buy" into the social welfare speeches by the MSNBC socialist who you seem to follow blindly.....

No Tony the truly daft who need to be told what to do are glued to Fox. They do after all have the highest ratings right? Waaaaaaaay more watcher than MSNBC correct? Which translates into more dimwits needing to be told what to think glues to Fix day in and day out. . Oops, you guys didn't think about that when you are crowing about the ratings of fox did ya? So yes, I'd say the rating analysis you guys crow about is pretty accurate after all.

MSNBC has liberal and conservative personalities hosting their own opinion shows. They don't claim to be "fair and balanced" or NEWS people, ie. journalists. They admit their political biases but make every effort to get the facts straight anyway and when they get it wrong they admit it promptly and apologize. The folks at FOX NEWS have to be shamed into making corrections to their numerous factual errors, by people like Jon Stewart, and it usually takes a week for the "correction" to take place.

Gee, I don't remember crowing about ratings. Again, Independent people who are self sufficient and believe in being responsible for their own well being can not be classified as "sheeple." This whole idea that people should look to a government, any government, for their well being instead of using their God given talent to make something out of themselves and not become dependent are the sheeple. You need to really consider that there are people who are not influenced by anyone on TV. By the way, there are less followers of MSNBC because most people don't buy into the one sided reporting and the totally liberal slant on all the reporting.

Tony C, you're against social justice?! Really?! think you need to sit down and read The Declaration of Independence and the COnstitution again. Social justice is a big part of both.

MSNBC has fewer viewers than FOX "NEWS" because most of their programming is over the heads of the moronic sheeple who happily watch and then regurgitate the FOX pablum.

Your belief that any of us are "independent" is evidence of your having been brainwashed, Tony. We are all interdependent and those of us who feel close to independent should recognize that it is an illusion. We all depend on others to provide for our safety and justice. There is no way around it.

Good twist and distortion about viewers. You made my point, too many people believe they need to be dependent on a government for more than safety and justice. Being independent and believing in freedom is not being brainwashed. Believing that someone else should provide for your every day needs is brainwashed.

You are not independent. I am not independent. We are all INTERDEPENDENT. You may feel, or believe yourself to be independent, but as I said, that is an ILLUSION. Stop kidding yourself and trying to mislead others into believing you are not dependent on the government to uphold law and order for you and us.

Tony,

In 2003, Fox "news" went to court to fight for their rights under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States TO LIE TO YOU.

Simply put so even you can understand it:

FOX "news" LIES.

And this is a "news" source that you covet?

[Believing that someone else should provide for your every day needs is brainwashed.]

Believing this is a perfect example of propaganda...Joseph Goebbels would be proud...

Auntie -

Glad to see I'm not the only one who finds candidates (note: All with an "R" after their name) charging their constituents money for their time and responses just a bit troubling. But then , anyone who'd pay Ben Quayle $35 says something about a fool and his money being soon parted.

FR: "The question becomes: Do Perry's remarks disqualify him among some in the GOP establishment? Or is this where the Republican primary voters are right now?"

Well, that's actually two questions, but okay - Perry and Bachmann and their supporters pretty much ARE "the GOP establishment" any more, aren't they? Pawlenty's gone, Daniels never got in, Huntsman is still in the single digits and dropping, Christie's still holding out, and Romney's starting to look and sound desperate.

Which makes the answer to the second question a resounding "Yes".

We've come to a sad place when Republicans feel so little responsibility to their constituents. It would be an insult to the voters to make them pay to see the actual representative, it's downright disgusting making them pay to see people who were hired to TAKE THE PLACE OF the representative.

!. Can I Sleep with The Republican I pay to talk with? Arn't Republicans known to Be Fantastic Prostitutes. I wonder whose better in Bed? Michele or Her Closet Gay Husband?

2. The Democratic Fear for 2012. Neither Michele or Perry will Run against Obama ! Then the Democrat's will have to Run Against A Sane Adult.

Perry said what he said because he knows that is what the "right" wants to hear.

He also knows the MSM will give him a pass because he's their guy.

Why else this morning on Morning Joe there was all this talk about his " first day mistakes"

Really.

He has been planning this launch for months and he did not know that it is rude and ignorant to talk about the POTUS and Fed as if they are some dog poop.

Unless, of course, the democrats had won last week.

Then it would have been a sign of things to come.

Do you ever listen to yourselves? Last week at this time, it was all champagne and popcorn.

Today it's beer- to cry in.

Face it- all the temper tantrums and national media coverage trying to paint Walker as a failed governor fell flat. The mood of the country is not in favor of the democrats.

I think the economic and foreign policy disasters that are the hallmark if the Obama presidency has a little bit to do with that.

Actually, more than a little bit.

Of course not! Shucks why would we ever think anything like that! So what will the ned result be after today? Hmmmmmm Lets see 2 seats lost and 2 seats in play today!