The game is rigged, so why even bother!

This whole 'committee' business is nothing but another stall tactic!

Kyl is retiring, so what does he care. His retirement package is etched in stone as he rides off into the sunset at taxpayer expense.

Hensarling uttered a phrase during hurricane Ike (that devasted Galveston) that folks should take water and guns as they evacuated.

The game is rigged, so why even bother!

Right? *shakes head*

I just heard that all six of these clowns have signed God Grover's Pledge!

This is going nowhere FAST!

A super committee.

Is that anything like the Simpson-Bowels Commission, or the Gang of Six?

Where is Obama, and what is he doing.

Other than voting present by hiding behind a commission.

This is no longer even leading from behind. This is leading from the depths of a bunker.

Wait, no, this must be that Hope and Change.

The rest of us 'have nots' will have to figure out how to stuff a pigeon and serve 8!

_____________________________________________

Maybe if you went out and got a full time job other than posting on blogs all day long you wouldn't be a "have-not".

Maybe if you went out and got a full time job other than posting on blogs all day long you wouldn't be a "have-not".

Maybe if you had any idea what you're talking about - someone might find you believable...

You have NO idea what I do for a living or what I make -

It might be a good idea to keep your trap shut and thought to be a fool than continually opening it & removing all doubt for a change!

LOL!

Sorry Feisty... but Joe makes a point. It's hard to imagine you doing ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE given the number and timing of the posts you make here EVERY day.

Thats said... Joe... we all know that she DOES earn her keep here at FR... since they likely pay her a tidy sum to insight the riots that she does here on this vine.

:-)

The usual horse#%t from Mr Joe and Spankster the Snarkster. Instead of throwing insults how bout some specifics from you two intellectually impoverished Banana Republicans. Maybe we can:

1. De Couple Wall Street from the Mortgage Business.

2. Raise the age to collect SSI benefits.

3. Raise the income levels for SSI contributions.

4. Reform the tax code to encourage investment in our manufacturing base and infrastructure.

5. Break out the cost of the Wars in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq and establish a SINKING FUND and implement a FAIR surtax on all citizens so each of us pays our fair share for these wars.

Is that too liberal for ya?

Yes, where is Obama?

I saw Maureen Dowd's column.... she said "Obama hasn't been a leader, I don't know if he can lead." Wow! Pretty strong words from a leading 'progressive', don't you think? Where is Obama?

Torpedo... it seems you only take issue with the insults that are toss out by ther right... what about those that are flung by the left? Feisty and Bev insult (and personally attack) everyone that disagrees with them. You ok with that?

Spanky: Complaining about President Obama not being involved in a Congressional Committee which is required by Law. That battle is over, get real. I know you don't like the President, but come on, now your just being silly.

Personally, I hope each of the members of the committee decide to do what is right for the country and come up with a strong plan which will (over time) put the countries fiscal house in order. I think there is room for revenue increases (aka taxes) and targeted cuts. The alternative, across the board cuts, is not a smart way to be governing.

we all know that she DOES earn her keep here at FR...

AWWWW!

The green eyed monster slithered out from under her rock again! LMAO!

This coming from someone who's entire existance consists of trolling me...

You sure got yourself a baaad case of Feisty Fever don't ya honey?

Maybe with some more practice & experience you'll make it off the bench one day! ;o)

Until then... Ta Ta!

Feisty and Bev insult (and personally attack) everyone that disagrees with them

Where did I personally attack anyone above?

First the idiot from Albany chimed in followed by you his little chamber-maid! lol

Figure out what constitues a personal attack before you start flinging your bullsh!t for a change will ya?

LOL! :-P

Have you EVER gone a single day WITHOUT personally attacking someone on this site? Lets ask NoJo or Spanky or JAS1 whether or not you have personally attacked anyone on this site?

Heck... some might say the anger and nastiness in your post above is a personal attack on me! (since I am REALLY not a green monster...)

(BTW... thanks for proving my point)

Hey Sick the problem is that most Banana Republicans refer to us as "libbies" and constantly obfuscate then deflect and re-frame an issue. The debt ceiling is a typical example in the congress. For the record, I don't consider myself a "liberal." That said, I did offer some specifics above and my guess is that neither you or Joe or Spanky will address those suggestions. Nuff said!

dirp - this particular committee was created as just another way for them all to avoid responsibility. As the leader, Obama bears the brunt of that, and should be the one actually leading.

Torpedo:

1. Let's get the government out of mortgages. Freddie and Fannie are a disaster.

2. I'm thinking 80, which would be in line with it's original purpose.

3. Sorry, no play. It either applies equally or it fails. You know "fairness" and all.

4. How about a flat tax?

5. How about just ending the stupid, wasteful wars and be done with it?

Geez, Torpedo, maybe you and I ought to be on the Super Committee?

Or not, cause as an intellectually impoverised person I probably would not qualify. Wait, maybe I would? We are talking about politicians.

it's best to ignore the redwig as she feeds on contentious behavior. Especially ignore her later in the day when she's 'in the cups' so to speak. She does love her mojitos and has even won awards for them, or so she brags.

As far as first read goes, she's the ringer, the antagonist... very much like the bully in hockey who's only function is to go out and hurt the opposition. That's feisty, redwig... as you can see she has nothing else goin on in her life outside of FR, so she gives it her best shot. I just wish she had a relevant post once in a while!

It's best to ignore the redwig as she feeds on contentious behavior.

Says another one who can't resist trolling me...

Curious why you can't abide by your own advice?

Damn - who knew the Feisty Redhead fan-club would grow as rapidly as it did! lol

I feel soo special! ;o)

OK, Sick and friends ranting about who posts and who's first, explain how one person who posts here often is more or less likely to have a job than another person who posts equally often--Sick, Greedy, Joe in Albany, Bill, Schpanky, No Joe, JS1, the bobs with many numbers all make many daily appearances. You really make yourself sound ridiculous.

Actually Torpedo... what's to address in your comments.

As I read them I saw you endorsing cuts in benefits and entitlement programs. you must not be a 'libbie' since they will skewer you for talking like that. (Better DUCK BUDDY, they will be flinging their stuff your way :-)

Also... try using a little friendlier tone in you emails and perhaps people will actually read what you have to say.

Have a great day!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Jody... You are a bit off base. I certainly don't post here anywhere nearly as frequently as the Feisty one. As a matter of fact... Feisty was corrent in one comment she made a while back... I tend to visit this sight on my lunch hour. You see... I DO HAVE A JOB... In a nice air-conditioned Office... so... I visit while i eat my lunch.

Feisty on the other hand is here 24/7... working hard to post first on every story... and inevitabley spewing nastiness at someone in each thread.

Facts is facts sister. (sorry)

Spanky,

1. Let's get the government out of mortgages. Freddie and Fannie are a disaster.

**Remember FHA or the Mtg Business before CDO's and CDS's No problem let's go back to that. Lots of MBAs and other assorted paper pushers would be out of work.

2. I'm thinking 80, which would be in line with it's original purpose.

***Your Typical Snark**Are you 6 years old?

3. Sorry, no play. It either applies equally or it fails. You know "fairness" and all.

**Income is income, but then again you want it both ways**

4. How about a flat tax?

**Nah I like the Clinton Model better. It is Fairer.

5. How about just ending the stupid, wasteful wars and be done with it?

**No problem..But the question was PAYING for them**

Geez, Torpedo, maybe you and I ought to be on the Super Committee?

Or not, cause as an intellectually impoverised person I probably would not qualify. Wait, maybe I would? We are talking about politicians.

No Spanky my comments were addressed to you

Does Republicans filling their slots mean we're all .... (oh, never mind). ;-)

Bill T from USA:

I just wish she had a relevant post once in a while!

If she did, can you guarantee that you would?

'Cause I'm waiting on that.

Good one Joe, made me chuckle. Obviously most of the particpants on both sides are retiring after this super committee. The John Kerry pick is kind of puzzeling though. In any event, nothing will get done because Milli Vanilli in the Whitehouse will continue to vote present and lead from behind.

A super committee.

Is that anything like the Simpson-Bowels Commission, or the Gang of Six?

Where is Obama, and what is he doing.

Other than voting present by hiding behind a commission.

But, Spanky, this committee is now required by law thanks to the agreement on the debt ceiling reached last week...you know, the agreement where Boehner got 98% of what he wanted.

Oh, I get it...the commission is the 2% that he didn't want, right?

Sure glad I never see anything posted by Sick of the Bickering and Joe on here day in and day out, like I do Feisty.

Sick..There is plenty to address in my comment...To wit:

PAYING FOR THE WARS. Spanky wants to end them. I am OK with that since my 2 kids are Navel officers with one just completing a tour in the AFG. (Yup I have some skin in this game). Again my suggestion was that the Congress establish a Sinking Fund to pay for them and enact a FAIR surtax for all Americans.

So far nothing but crickets from Conservatives.

Jody, fret not, I have a crack staff that makes up for most of my deficiencies.

Torpedo - What age would you suggest? I look tothe life expectancy back when SS was created. Very few lived to 75 years old back then. Now, it is the norm. I'd also take the clinton rates, if they agree to the Clinton budget [which would of course require an actual budget]. We both know they would never go for that.

Noid - a leader would not wait or rely on anyone. a leader would come out with a plan. It is that simple.

But this is worse - he had a plan - Simpson Bowles, but ignored it. He just will not, under any circumstances, take a position and stick with it.

All you have to do is look at his positions on the debt ceiling itself. Not good. Not consistent. Not leading.

"... it seems you only take issue with the insults that are toss out by ther right... what about those that are flung by the left?"

So, SOTB- which is more better, and which is not? Seems to me like I see a lot from both sides every day.

"Feisty on the other hand is here 24/7...."

Could she be a retiree? Do you know?? Do you care??? SHOULD you care????

Spanky 68 is fine with me. The Pres does submit a budget to congress. Of course you know that the republican house controls the purse strings and the agenda don't you. Don't forget that it was the republican house the linked the debt ceiling to the purse strings.

Still waiting for your response re; paying for the wars...

You have NO idea what I do for a living or what I make -

________________________________________________

With the amount of time you spend posting on blogs 24/7/365, you don't have time to do anything else for a living. Are you really getting paid for your blog posting?

You claim in post #1 to be a "have-not" which means you don't make much. Unless that claim is a lie??

drive-by-observer

"... it seems you only take issue with the insults that are toss out by ther right... what about those that are flung by the left?"

So, SOTB- which is more better, and which is not? Seems to me like I see a lot from both sides every day.

Agreed DBO... THAT is the POINT of my post. (glad you got it :-)

drive-by-observer

"Feisty on the other hand is here 24/7...."

Could she be a retiree? Do you know?? Do you care??? SHOULD you care????

Again... Agreed DBO. My only issue with Feisty is that she is rude, arrogant and attempts to dominate every conversation. She never allows anyone to voice a difference of opinion without attempting to discredit them via character assination. Other than that... I am sure she is just a great gal :-)

attempting to discredit them via character assination.

LOL! That is pretty funny... that typo must have been a Freudian slip... I meant to type assassination.

You claim in post #1 to be a "have-not" which means you don't make much. Unless that claim is a lie??

Anyone making under 250K a year is considered a 'have-not'...

And given what's going on in the markets that number could change any minute...

It's early. Yesterday the market went up 300 points in less than an hour at the end of the day.

It can do the same today. There really is not reason why it should not.

Not following Torpedo - if the wars are over, the expenses stop. As for the costs already incurred they get paid from the general fund, like everything else. Can't hardly impose a tax now, it's too late.

Could impose one for expenses going forward, since for some reason Obama won't end them, but he will never do that. In fact he won't even try. He does not do anything remotely unpopular.

And as for the debate about time spent here v. money earned - I do alright, although I do spend too much time here. It's just so entertaining. Till the end of the month, when I have to do the pre-bills. Then I get to see the actual cost of my entertainment.

I gotta cut back. :(

Hey Torpedo... You didn't answer my question... You OK with that?

SickOfTheBickering

Torpedo... it seems you only take issue with the insults that are toss out by ther right... what about those that are flung by the left? Feisty and Bev insult (and personally attack) everyone that disagrees with them. You ok with that?

<Crickets>

The Commission is even more about each Party's understanding of what the majority of the American people want (which basically is knowing right from wrong). The Party that fails to represent the majority of the American people loses seats in 2012.

In Wisconsin they may not have reached the goal of three seats to take control of the House Senate, but they did pick up two of those three seats, and the race was close in other districts. These districts are Republican districts, so picking up any seats was a victory. An election to recall Walker would be statewide, and then we would see a better reflection of the unpopularity of him and Republicans in general.

Also keep in mind; the Wisconsin recalls were more about unions. Whereas the NY 26^th was about Paul Ryan's plan to privatize Medicare to give more tax breaks to the rich. Had Democrats running in these Wisconsin recalls been able to campaign on their opponent's support for the Paul Ryan plan, then we would have seen Republicans throwing the bums out too.

And this all ties into the Commission. So far, in the president's address, he said spending cuts can only go so far. The next step to reduce deficits will require tax reforms and modest adjustment to entitlements. President Obama IS leading once again by offering the olive branch of cost savings from entitlements.

Cantor, on the other hand, responded saying he would get cuts in entitlements without any concession on revenue. In other words, Cantor plans to pursue the Paul Ryan plan to attack Medicare to protect the rich. If the GOP/TP members on the Commission take this path, they will help Democrats to make this a campaign issue just like NY 26^th. Either they bend to the will of the people, or suffer the losses.

As for jobs, the president has been working on a path forward. I like the offensive of presenting specific public works projects in House Teapublican districts, and forcing the Teabaggers to say 'no' to the projects in front of their constituents. Even more, I would like to see US companies' offshoring jobs to be subjected to tariffs just like foreign companies wanting to sell their goods in the largest market in the world. Toyota has manufacturing plants here in the US in order to sell here, and so should these US companies. The idea of vouchers for the unemployed should be considered too, especially if unemployment is not to be extended. We definitely can't cut government jobs like teachers, etc. too much, not only because of the damage to education but because it adds to the unemployment rate.

We just need to hit a tipping point, in which enough people are back to work so as to increase demand, which in turn will spur more hiring -- which in turn will increase income tax revenue toward reduction of deficits. And imagine if we could end the war in Afghanistan and start drawing down today?! I believe there's enough support in the country now to get out of that miserable place.

In the meantime, approval ratings for the Republican Recession and Tea Party Downgrade are already low. Satisfaction with GOP presidential candidates is already low. If the GOP/TP thinks they can win in 2012 with 30-40% of the country -- then have at it.

I think that what fiesty and many others don't understand is the word infer and inference.

It is apparent that many think if one doesn't name someone specifically they get a pass.

As for spanky's question on where obama is in all of this, perhaps he as well as many of have forgotten the little blurb obama made the other day on how the WH was going to put together their own deficit cutting plan as well. On the other hand, Spanky may be drawing a conclusion based on inferring what obamas past actions where when dealing with economic issues. IE Obama will remain all talk and no action.

Some interesting observations were made on bloombergTV this past weekend on our downgrade...

A supercommision?? The US doesn't need another poltical commitee, super or otherwise. America needs a plan.

Obama is acting more like a legislator than an executive CEO leading the worlds largest economy.

Yes, where is Obama?

Sally, on Friday when S&P downgraded our debt, Obama was golfing.

On Monday, when the stock market took a dive, Obama was napping.

On Tuesday, when the market recovered 400 pts, Obama took credit for it in a WH notice.

Today, the market has lost all of Tuesday's gains, Obama is missing again.

Do we see a trend here? Dowd has figured it out, when will the rest of the Progressives get it?

Where is Obama?

Is this going to be a new board game?

In reply to a few points above:

1) In February, President Obama proposed to phase out Freddie and Fannie. Try to keep up.

2) The age of 80 is ridiculous, especially since people are living longer in POOR HEALTH, but an age of 80 is the same as abolishing the concept of retirement all together (i.e., the Paul Ryan plan). Does anyone REALLY expect people to work until they are 80?! My mother is turning 80 and I don't see how she could have held a job until now—assuming anyone would hire her. It's the same stupid idea of thinking anyone would give her health insurance now too. Use your noggin.

Social Security in particular has nothing to do with deficits, and is solvent for plenty of time to shore it up. Most of all, there is an IOU owed to The People that needs to be paid back (some of which was used to pay for Bush's wars). Once again, it is asinine to argue for cuts in Social Security when there's an IOU sitting in the trust fund box. Just raise the current $106,000 cap—even if only to the new cut off for the richest 5% of $150,000 (rounded). It needs to be updated along with the minimum wage!

3) A flat tax takes from the poor and gives to the rich even more than the Bush tax cuts. The cost of living—basics like food, shelter, utilities, etc. are the same for everyone no matter what thir income is. This is why user/sales taxes are a stupid idea too.

Eliminating all tax credits and lowering the tax rate over all is the superior approach, but a progressive income tax of some form is still needed to make the proportion of income to tax rate fair.

Really, I wish amateurs would stop posting such nonsense. And the Obama Bashing is all you have left because you can't make your case.

Anyone making under 250K a year is considered a 'have-not'...

________________________________________________

That's not much, if you live on Planet Liberal. It's hardly enough to cover the bare essentials necessary to live the lefty entitlement lifestyle.

Hello True Patriot,

Some Excellent Post on your part. These right wing extremist posters aren’t the brightest bulbs in the package.

Am I seeing projection on the part of conservative posters here? Fiesty Redhead is accused of attacking those who disagree with her? I have been subjected to more attacks by conservative posters here, to the point many of them are on ignore. Fiesty defends herself against blatant falsehoods charges and she is attacked as being ureasonable. You know who you are.

Torpedo - try these on for fit...

1. De Couple Wall Street from the Mortgage Business. + your reply to spanky of...**Remember FHA or the Mtg Business before CDO's and CDS's No problem let's go back to that. Lots of MBAs and other assorted paper pushers would be out of work.

I have no problem with some losing jobs, I don't like it personally, but I understand why it happens. Decoupling of wall st from the mortgage business will essentially mean that the mortgage originators (hopefully from this point foward the originators will only be the local banks and credit unions) will lose the ability to minimize their risk, by drawing on a bigger pool. Fanny and freddy are good examples of what happens when a business entity doesn't enter responsibly into deals because the government is there to bail them out and they know it..

2. Raise the age to collect SSI benefits.

Already in progress and if you want to use just age to to maintain solvency for medicare and SS into the future 80 is one way of doing it, regardless of your attempt to minimize spanky's answer.

For myself, besides an age increase I would go for increasing the FICA contribution that individuals make. Make their contribution the same rate as what the self employed contribute and let business still contribute at the same rate that they do today. And I am talking for all workers from the part timers on up. Not sure about a means test, but capping the maximum monthly amount paid out will also help.

3. Raise the income levels for SSI contributions.

within the context of actuarial tables fine., Found it hard to believe that you disagreed with spanky's answer

4. Reform the tax code to encourage investment in our manufacturing base and infrastructure.

No doubt our current tax system is structurally flawed. But a variety of taxes have been implimented over the years to be used to maintain our infrastructure. I would say it is time to consolidate the variety of agencies into one leaner and meaner organization. IE eliminate duplication and minimize waste. BTW anyone can point to our current system and show us how it doesn't work, can you show us the pros and cons of a flat tax or vat tax that other nations have implimented?

As for manufacturing, what do you find wrong in the roles that IPO's, venture capitalists, investment bankers, private investors and M&A's play in creating manufacturing bases? Surely you don't suggest that government play a bigger part other than offerring businesses incentives to relocate?

5. Break out the cost of the Wars in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq and establish a SINKING FUND and implement a FAIR surtax on all citizens so each of us pays our fair share for these wars.

I have no idea of what you mean by a "sinking fund" or what you mean by "fair share"? I take "fair share" to mean that you take the population of the US and divide it into the cost of the wars to arrive at an amount each citizen contributes from newborns all the way through the wealthiest and regardless of whether they they are here legally or illegally.

True Patriot I love how you simply refer to your tax scheme as the "superior approach" while providing absolutely no basis for that assumption.

Huh, well although I have had many classes in taxation law, and compliance, and prepared taxes for many years for clients as an accountant, and although I handle tax related issues regularly, I do not do so on a full time basis. However, my boy Ira is a straight up New York tax attorney. Plus he's a libbie, through and through. And while we disagree about nearly all things political, we are in complete agreement about a flat tax.

So tell us True Patriot, what leads to your conclusion that a flat tax is less good than your plan? Is it your educational background? Is it your work experience? Your experience doing tax compliance work?

How about your working knowledge of the IRC? I assume from your comment that you are readily familiar with the IRC, and have in fact studied it?

Please advise True Patriot. I sure hope is isn't just your take on a Think Progress article, cause taxation is one complicated MOFO, as you know.

I have been subjected to more attacks by conservative posters here, to the point many of them are on ignore.

Good to see you Wade!

I too have many on ignore - makes the First Read experience much more pleasurable!

Funny thing is Fiesty - by ignoring all [or so you say, but we both know it's not true*] it'd make First Read just like Think Progress.

Plus ignorance is bliss, so there is that.

*Wink, wink, nod, nod.

torpedo - sorry, the house only originates revenue bills per the constitution. Budgets deal with allocations and like any other non revenue bill, either the senate or the house can create them and offer amendments to them until both houses agree.

Even on revenue bills originated by the house the senate has the ability to offer up amendments to the revenue raising bill.

TP

but they did pick up two of those three seats, and the race was close in other districts.

Close races? Really?

You call Rob Cowles stomping Nancy Nusbaum by 20 points close? Harsdorf kicking a teacher's union official by 16 points close? Olsen by 52% and Darling by 54% were real thin wins, huh?

The two seats the dems picked up? Obama won one by 20% and the other was decided by 1,100 votes that were decided more by the repub's infidelity thanhis position on unions. Whooo -hoooo!

An election to recall Walker would be statewide, and then we would see a better reflection of the unpopularity of him and Republicans in general.

Unpopular - This was the unions and libbies best shot, they made this the national focus, they threw everything into it and .........THEY JUST GOT 53% OF THE TOTAL VOTE.

So far, in the president's address, he said spending cuts can only go so far. The next step to reduce deficits will require tax reforms and modest adjustment to entitlements. President Obama IS leading once again by offering the olive branch of cost savings from entitlements.

You don't pay much attention to reality do you?

The stock market really responded to that same ole same ole stale blather didn't it. Bernanke comes out the next day and basically says there will be no growth for a few years by setting the interests rates for 2 years.

As for jobs, the president has been working on a path forward.

Lean forward, huh? Kinda like a slinky on stairs .......

The president is almost irrelevent as a president can be. No one with any sense has any confidence in him ...... business, the markets, the rating agencies, the leaders of just about every other country in the world ......

I like the offensive of presenting specific public works projects in House Teapublican districts, and forcing the Teabaggers to say 'no' to the projects in front of their constituents.

And your answer is playing political games ..... with people of conviction and principle?

Even more, I would like to see US companies' offshoring jobs to be subjected to tariffs just like foreign companies wanting to sell their goods in the largest market in the world.

Great idea ..... create another war with business.

And then one from your other idiotic post ....

3) A flat tax takes from the poor and gives to the rich even more than the Bush tax cuts. The cost of living—basics like food, shelter, utilities, etc. are the same for everyone no matter what thir income is. This is why user/sales taxes are a stupid idea too.

You don't understand that the tax revenue for lunch ...... say on a Big Gulp and 2 hotdogs for $2 is probably not quite as much as a couple glasses of wine, appetiser, salad, main course at a little bit nicer restaurant that doesn't have gas pumps?

You haven't noticed that the cars the rich drive are slightly more expensive than the cars the poor drive, their houses tend be a few feet bigger and just alittle bit more expensive......... their clothes, their shoes ........everything is taxed proportionally ........

Sorry, this is obviously over your head ...... have you ever thought about going back to yahoo?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

I have been subjected to more attacks by conservative posters here, to the point many of them are on ignore.

Good to see you Wade!

I too have many on ignore - makes the First Read experience much more pleasurable!

Ignore me.... PLEASE!!!!!!

Bob - funny how the libbies ignore the overall vote totals and plus/minus on the percentages.

Like how the republicans got +18% of the vote overall.

To a libbie thatis just a minor detail to be ignored.

Silly libbies - can't even wait until it's all done, next week. Sure would sucl for them if they lose two then, eh?

The punk wrote: I have had many classes in taxation law.

All the more reason your position is shameful. We could take a vote, though we already have. You are the only one who voted for your post.

bob-1805084 -- You can try to twist my words (as usual), but it won't work. I did not say ALL of the races were close. Considering these are gerrymandered Republican districts, and all the outside money for Republicans such as Alberta Darling that broke national records (and machinations from running fake Democrats in a primary to sending out ballots with incorrect date, etc.) some Republicans did not win by a landslide--the way Sen. Dave Hansen, D-Green Bay, handily defeated Republican David VanderLeest with 66 percent of the vote. They will progress with recall of Walker, which will be statewide and a better reflection for the nation. But that is of course not the main point, as others in this board can see by reading the full post.

And it's YOU who doesn't understand that tax on a wine, appetizers, etc. is a friggin' pitiful drop in the bucket worth of revenue. Property taxes are naturally progressive, so that's all you are correct about. Go do some darn reseach. The sales tax on yachts for 1% of the population is nothing compared to tax on 95% of the rest of the nation.

The stock market is reacting to other parts of the world, and domestically to the Banana Republican's Recession and Tea Party Downgrade. The Tea Party, who has proudly taken ownership of the term "Tea Party Downgrade" with cheers that our rating was downgraded. The Banana Republicans like McConnell saying the nation is a hostage worth taking, and Cantor saying he will not compromise on S&P recommendations to agree to the President's leadership for a $4 trillion Big Deal, and to show seriousness about the debt by raising tax revenues.

Try to spin it all you want. The low approval ratings for the Banana Republicans/Paul Ryan plan and Tea Party Downgrade tell the truth.

patriot - sounds like you are ok with about 50% of the population not payng any income taxes, doesn't sound much like a progressive system to me. Interesting on how the earned income tax credit works or perhaps something else contributes to the belief that 50% don't pay taxes.

I realize that you may not understand the following op-ed piece, but you did say you favored our current progressive tax policy, right?

In 1980, the top 1 percent of earners paid 19 percent of income taxes, and the bottom half of earners paid 7.1 percent. A decade later, with a lower maximum rate, the top 1 percent paid 25 percent of taxes, while the bottom earners paid just 5.8 percent. By 2008, top earners paid 38 percent of taxes, the bottom half 2.7 percent.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/get-rich-pay-lower-taxes-boost-u-s-revenue-commentary-by-amity-shlaes.html

Perhaps the following links would be more to your liking based on verifiable IRS data...

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

SS currently requires that about two workers pay in to pay for one SS recipient. BTW - the baby boomers have just started drawing and what many refer to as the SS trust fund is really filled with treasury IOU's that require interest payments and by extension are indeed part of the deficit and our long term debt.

LBJ in the 60's added the SS trust fund to the general fund to pay for his war on poverty and vietnam (take your pick), reagan and speaker o'neil put together a bandaid approach to keep SS solvent into what really amounted to be a short term fix. Trying to blame bush for raiding the SS trust fund is ludicrous based solely on the fact that the so called trust fund has been mixed into the general fund and as such anyone can also say that the fund was never really touched. I understand that the IRS gets rather touchy on the matter of accounts with mixed funds.

your arguments against any taxes other than a progressive one is amatuerish without supporting pro and con documentation or in light of anything referring to common knowledge on the subject.

my, my, my TP you sure like strawman arguments. I wonder who the real punk is here today?

Have a chance to read that IRS data yet? Sure looks like obama needs to allow his tax cuts to expire across the board come 2013. Sure looks like those making less than $30k/year should pay more in income taxes. After all fair is fair right?

Surprised that you didn't mention corporate jets!

Since you think you are such a tax expert why not refer us to the appropriate links that discribe how each system works and how other countries have applied them to their own economies.

ROTFLMAO!!! Take a vote?? My (as in yours tp) post got more votes than yours! This is mainly a liberal blog site where many go out of the way to try and discredit opposing views. I have seen a left leaning poster get more votes than you just by posting "xx"

american-2051576 -- The first correction is it's 47 - 48.5%, and the second correction is this percentage includes the rich who like Warren Buffet only pay a 15% rate due to loopholes.

The rich pay 59% of revenue because the rich earns more in revenue. If you're so poor you don't have a pot to piss in, it's like taking the penny from the old lady in the Bible--it's all she had and therefore she paid more than the rich men--get it? The folks who self-report their income or have a team of accountants to create tax shelters are not the working poor. They are the rich men.

The self-employed/business people (who are not subjected to W2 third-party reporting) are responsible for 57% of tax evasion. We lose $4 billion from the top 25 hedge fund managers alone. These are the folks who got rich on toxic mortgage securities, some who should be in jail. Where is your outrage about this?

Conservatives keep deflecting these facts with their pitiful "50% don't pay tax" garbage they get from FOX and Hate Radio. None of you ever respond directly to the REAL solution of closing loopholes so that everyone's tax rate can be lower. Why do you protect tax evasion? Answer this!

The information provided about how SS works is old news. It's insurance, and that's how insurance works--more pay in than collect. And what about the IOU? Isn't that really the reason why SS needs to be shored up? It's still the best retirement option out there as we saw from the decimation of 401ks and pension plans thanks to the Republican Recession.

american #'s:

[...sounds like you are ok with about 50% of the population not payng any income taxes...]

Hmmm...you and Spanky seem to be in lock step with this "smokescreen". What you fail to address is WHY almost 50% of Americans pay no federal income tax. Why is that? Is it that you feel that almost 50% of your fellow Americans are living at or below the poverty level? Nahhh...couldn't be, right?

And Spanky the Coward out and out lies about this as well, having stated several times here on FR that almost 50% of Americans "pay no tax".

Sometimes it's worth telling the whole story, instead of a snippet meant to deceive. And while we are most certainly entitled to your own opinions, we are most certainly NOT entitled to our own facts.

true - to bad you don't understand what the word "about 50%" means and that you fail to realize that many of the wealthy and selfemployed pay taxes on a monthly or quarterly basis. Hardly a pay no taxes proposition even if taking in allowable (as in legal) deductions. BTW - the IRS frowns on people who always show losses or questionable deductions.

Perhaps this will open your eyes...

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0

Nice deflection on the poor woman in the bible but the story was referencing Christs reply to those who chastised her for her small giving. The question still remains, shouldn't everyone be expected to pay even a minimum income tax?

Outrage is very subjective and does little if who you say are violating the law are not being prosecuted by the powers that be. Please spare us the conspiracy theories as well, but I will allow the excuse that it does take time to develope a case for prosecution.

Allow tax evasion??? Pray tell where anyone today on this blog or any other blog said this or where any politician (L or R) said it?

Let me get this right, you want to close all loopholes? and yes I understand that by doing so can bring tax rates down. Close all loopholes, right?

So you think that fox news and hate radio are the perpetrators of the about 47% don't pay taxes rhetoric. How droll. Why not do an internet search on the matter, I came up with about 347000 hits on the subject with the initial ten hits not even referencing fox or radio broadcasts.

Still with the blame game I see. Historically recessions occur every 7 - 12 years and to date no economist or politician has come up with a proven plan to eliminate them from happening or to effectively get us out of them. As an old university professor liked saying that for many economic and poliitical events it is more of a "by gosh and by golly" action plan that cures it over one of rhetoric.

Obviously, you like many others feel better by blaming a political party for everything by specious comments, please do carry on and ignore what really happened. Hindsight is really 20/20 and the facts are out there.

"A stacked deck against fiscal conservatives"? You mean former president of the Club For Growth Pat Toomey isn't conservative enough for you? (Or was that the Hair Club for Men? I always get those two mixed up.....)

By the way, Wisconsin Democrats gained two seats yesterday. How many did Wisconsin Republicans gain? (Hint - the four they already had don't count as "gains").

I don't know if I'd want to live in a city where the teachers, cops, firefighters, snowplow drivers, and other public workers feel insulted, but if Wisconsin voters are happy with the outcome, they are the ones who have to live there, not me.

JoAnne, dear, I know you libbies are always trying to count your chickens, and can just never seem to see the Forest amongst all the trees, but don't you think you just might want to wait until the elections are over before trying to feebly go scoreboard?

You are aware that there are two more seats up next week, right. It is likely that the dems will lose one, and possibly both.

And rather than debate your understanding of the word gain - why don't you tell us just what did the dems gain last night? In contrast what did they lose? See to me, they lost any chance they had to rally around their narrative that the electorate was going to rail against the evil republicans.

They gain a butt load of sadness. The people spoke, and it sure was not what the libbies thought.

And to Amy's point - Anna Molly, have you chosen a new location yet, or you doubling down on a recall of Walker?

Amy,

they shouldnt feel insulted, they are paid extremely well, are never fired, and have ridiculous pensions.

Their thuggish union should realize they overreached.

By the Way Joanna in PA,

We'll see how the Dems do next week, why they couldn't hold all the elections on the same day is stupid. But then again it is only taxpayer money being wasted in Wisconsin to run these elections.

But the best thing is, the liberals cannot regain control of their senate. Which probably means that they will be bringing in more protesters, because it just can't be correct that the voters have spoken twice now!!!

Bob - are you talking about your Congressmen ?

In a better world, teachers would be financially comfortable and CEO's would worry about their retirements.

>>Amy B: I don't know if I'd want to live in a city where the teachers, cops, firefighters, snowplow drivers, and other public workers feel insulted, but if Wisconsin voters are happy with the outcome, they are the ones who have to live there, not me.<<

Thanks Amy. We are happy!

Amy doesn't mention the fact that the State of Maine is buried in debt to the union pensions. Pensions for state workers, teachers, and such are beyond generous. For example a teacher could retire at age 55 at a reduced rate, but they get annual pension increases that can bring them up to where they would have been if they retired at age 65. What a joke.

Maine is also required to fund education at 55% and has yet to be able to afford to do so. Maine is an example of decades of Democratic Party control and the endless liberal policies that literally have created a welfare state. Kids in Maine graduate and leave the state. It has a stagnant aging population that is heavily dependent on welfare.

Some of the slogans for Maine, vacationland has been replaced by taxationland. The way life should be has been replaced by the way life should not be. Maine has two RINO's and two big government big spending liberals representing a welfare state. Whole industries are gone from the state, and jobs are scarce. To make matters worse, almost everything sold at LL Beans says made in China.

Apparently Amy feels have politicians with no vested interest in the outcome negotiating with unions that filled there coffers to get them elected serves the best interest of the taxpayers. When a politician says no the unions back another candidate in the next election. All the non-union taxpayers get to pick up the tab. Yeah, that is a great system.

Spanky -

Oh my gosh, I finally rate a "dear" from you! Oh, lucky, lucky me! I live for the day when I can make it all the way up to "old gal".

But this doesn't mean I have to start calling you Sweetiepie or Babydoll or Precious, does it? Cause I kinda like to save those for my cats......

More fantasy from Amy.

Amy you just don't live in the real world, do you? Teachers as CEOs?

"Those who can't do, teach."

Besides Amy they all knew the salary and benefits when they signed up. As did the CEOs. So it's a choice. In fact it's a whole lot of choices.

Like investing for retirement and not relying just on entitlements, right Amy? That would be a terrible idea.

JoAnne in PA

Sweetiepie or Babydoll or Precious, does it? Cause I kinda like to save those for my cats......

I knew it, cats, that tells me so much. How many? Over two, over three?,

You must be dizzy by now, Pride & Joy. Wisconsin LOST two recalled (previously elected) republican senate seats which are now DEMOCRAT. Please explain how two republican losses in very red districts translates to WI turning red.

Wisconsin last night, Reuters today

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2011/Reuters_Ipsos_Aug2011.pdf

So, please note-

The pool was comprised of 46% democrats to 38% republicans, and

In an indication of what the public really wants, CUTTING GOVERNMENT SPENDING is the first choice to spur the economy.

Tells me what I need to know about why the debt deal is not popular. It did not cut enough.

The losses are coming fast and furious for the liberals. Obama should quit while he is leading from behind- it ain't getting any better for him.

Or us.

Rick,

The average teacher in Maine retires on a pension of $19,000 a year and is not allowed to draw social security, even if they paid into it through another job. This is true of most public workers in Maine.

Public workers made concessions on contributing to their pension funds in the last budget, as did Wisconsin unions, however, our workers kept their right to collective bargaining, where Wisconsin lost their rights.

Our Teapublican governor took the workers' concessions, turned around and passed the "savings" onto historic tax cuts for the wealthiest. He raised the amount a person can inherit tax free from one to two million dollars. These are the values of the Tea Party. More money for the wealthiest, and less for the teachers.

Amy,

CEOs, who are highly paid, are accountable for results. Many dont stay in their position very long.

Unionized teachers, by contrast, have no accountability. They are given what amounts to lifetime tenure. Whether they actually successfully teach the children is an afterthought, under the current failed public education system.

thetotas -

Two of my own and a stray I've been feeding since last winter. Wait, it gets even better - I'm an old maid, too! So tell me - what exactly is the "so much" that tells you about me? I'm always up for a good game of stereotyping!

Jody, perhaps you should go back and read the stories about the Wisconsin recall effort! I too see Wisconsin evolving into a Red State. At the very least they are now a swing state!

Take the effort Jody, you will be enlightened! Maybe, lol!

Stereotypes come about because there is a certain degree (albeit small at times) of truth in them.

Think about that GF!

JoAnne - you can call me anything you like.

My cat's name is Boo. We got her around Halloween many years ago.

Bob, CEO's are accountable? When they get fired the news comes with a golden parachute.

Amy, a teacher in Maine can retire after 25 years at 50% of their base salary. They get a 2% increase every year. So someone that goes into the profession can retire at around 46 years of age, and start another career, which is a popular move. Maine allows a teacher to retire with an unreduced pension after 25 years regardless of age, which is better then MA, CT, NY, NJ, or RI.

Your 19,000.00 average occurs with less then 27 years of service. If they put in 35 years they retire at 70% of their base salary which averages 25,461.00 and they get their annual 2% increase. But retiring at 19000.00 after 25 years instead of 35 along with the 2% increases, they are up to 23.624.00 in just the next 10 years.

Maine is one of the highest taxed states in the nation. It has an aging population and is welfare heavy. Just how much more are those that work suppose to bleed into the system before you liberals are satisfied?

For a State/Teacher Plan member retiring at age 62 with 20 years of service and a $45,000 final average salary, this formula would result in an annual basic retirement benefit of:

20 X $45,000 X 2% = $18,000

http://www.mainepers.org/Pensions/Leg%20Pension%20Cost%20Request.pdf

Remember, what do you say about two less corporate special interest Republicans-Tea Baggers in the Wisconsin Senate?

The answer, it’s a good start.

The average annual benefit for all Maine public worker retirees is approximately $18,500. The

average annual benefit for state employees with 25 years of service is $24,000, and the average

annual benefit for teachers with 25 years of service is $26,000.

Only 20% of Maine's teachers reach full retirement of 25 plus years.

They really slow in Maine? How many people begin a teaching career at age 42? Cause, that's when someone retiring at 62 after 20 years would have started.

Most people begin teaching at age 25, after college-, well, at least in every state I've ever lived in.

Must be the salt air in Maine.

Amy, so what is your point? If you are unhappy with teacher retirement which is better then then CT, RI, MA, NY, or NJ what is it that you want? Teachers can retire with full pension benefits after 25 years regardless of age. In fact you could put in 25 years, retire at age 46, and collect a pension for the next 40 years. Just how much more of taxpayer money do want?

easy there totas, I like cats to, as well as dogs, just don't have the time to care for a dog.

Amy - looks like those numbers beat out what many seniors on SS get, bet my mom would shake her head in awe at those bennies.

There will probably come a day when the taxpayers look at state pensions and bennies and say enough is enough.

God, you're stupid Rick.

Amy, classic liberal comeback. Go for the name calling when someone asks you to articulate your complaining. You want, you want, and that is all we hear from you. Way to show the class we have come to expect from liberals that just live to find fault and assign blame. The Democratic Party was in power in Maine for the better part of the past 4 decades, and yet you complain about a governor that has been in office for less then a year. You are very good with the name calling and not much else. Keep your hand out and your sense of entitlement, you wear it so well.

If that is the best you can do Rick you are wasting key strokes. And you are wasting my time.

Jody, one of the GOP senators who survived the recall voted against the bill Scott Walker was pushing so hard.

Saw him on Lawrence O last week. He made many of the same points. While I disagree with some of the commission report there is a lot of good things in it that can be polished and shined. The point he made about tax loopholes last week really made sense. He's old-school republican, compromise, meet in the middle but get to problem solving kind of legislator--something the GOP has been missing for too long. Democrats aren't perfect but they are far more likely to compromise to get something done.

Jody no reasonable person can deny compromise is good, our system of government will not function without it, but what's going on in D.C. currently is not compromise, both sides have too give up something they really don't want to for it to be compromise. Our government can not function correctly when the Dem's refuse to defend what they stand for and allow the Republicans to blackmail them into selling out the people who put them there, the Dem's are going to have to call their bluff and go down swinging now, because if they cave in to everything the Republicans want again what is the point of the Dem's even being in office, I don't see any, stated another way if one party is always allowed to get everything they want what is the purpose of having an opposing party, they really aren’t an opposing party at all, they are in fact facilitators, is that really what we want?

...if one party is always allowed to get everything they want what is the purpose of having an opposing party, they really aren’t an opposing party at all, they are in fact facilitators, is that really what we want?

I would check mark your post more than once if I could.

Frank have to agree as well to what simpson pointed out, we already know many of the issues and new faces will only want to interject their own views and try to go over old ground. I don't look for much to happen with this new commitee unless they constantly remind themselves on our AA+ rating.

Awhile back simpson had an interview on bloombergTV concerning biden's efforts to get a solution. Simpson was as scathing to the right as he was to the left, but then again, he isn't interested in running for re-election.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/70166506/

Greeting yellowdog, looks like you have returned to your old thoughtfull self. Good to see it!

...

Mav - Check this comment by Dylan Ratigan last night.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44079837#44079837

The Tea Party did not stop the recovery, give it a rest. The movement has been around for 3 years and you are blaming the destruction of America on them.

As for Grover Norquist pledge, it symbolic. Its a pledge they would like to keep, but will break when a deal is on the table.

"Richard" - thanks for that link, Dylan was spot on! This goes way beyond democratic or republican. The founding fathers warned us about "career politicians" and nothing will change because this system is corrupt to the core and there is no one with the courage to fight to fix it. The FDR's and Teddy Roosevelts' are gone and even Andrew Jackson stood up to the banksters. As correct as Dylan is, it would be political suicide to so do because they are all in bed with big money.

yeah thanks for that link, he fired me up because he hit the nail on the head and he really shut those two girls up that were playing sides.

I would go for that. I mean why are we the people not voting on this stuff that affects US and not them so much? I think any constitutional amendment, budget issues, cuts, taxes... all need to be put up for a vote by We The People

"Say it isn't so" - I've been saying that forever, term limits for all politicians. Our founding fathers warned us about "career politicians" bought and sold. It's like asking thieves to sit in a room and divide up the stolen money equally. Eight years max for any congressmen, senator or supreme court justice. Why should any of them be allowed to serve longer than a sitting president???

All good points said by many people many places many times, but how do you implement such changes when the people that would have to ok them are the very people who would be negatively impacted by them? You can't, it is a flaw in the system which can not be fixed through the system.

Aw, Ted, why so serious?

Sits fine with me actually.

But let's not compare what a CEO does and is paid to a teacher. It's just ridiculous.

Usually what those CEO's do could be done by any 9th grade economist. Come in, fire 1/3 of the work force. Expect the remaining 2/3 to do the equivalent work of 3/3. Then in 2 years when the work force is all on stress leave, take a golden parachute of 5 or 6 million move on, let the factory shut down and relocate to Mexico, China, or India.

That's my resume- anybody looking for a new CEO(I will take 2 Million)

Now get to work you slackers.

frespech I equate the Presidents job to that of a CEO. Using your analogy I assume you think the President shouldn't be so highly paid either and only needs to operate like a freshman economist.

The President makes no where near what a CEO makes and just because you equate his job as that of a CEO

don't try the bait and switch game here cuz it won't work.

An average CEO doesn't make as much as you guys seem to think. And only billion-dollar companies give golden parachutes out.

Most CEO's are, in fact, company founders. For the first years anyways. Then the company either takes off, and they step back and let someone else run the show, or the company fizzles and dies and they're now broke with no job.

Most C-corporations aren't GE, Apple or Microsoft.

Frespch I agree the average CEO does not make anything near what you think. There are many varying salary ranges depending on the responsibilities (ie. are they Chairman of the Board, etc...).

That's it, straight out of the liberal/"progressive" play book, when people don't see things your way incite others to acts of violence.

The Democratic pledge , which all Democrats sign, is

"I pledge alliegance, to the unions and the trial lawyers"

I agree Mav, this deal is way beyond "symbolic", if it were only "symbolic" Norquist would have left out the "blackmail" part. I really have a hard time believing it is legal to blackmail a U.S. Congressmen but apparently it is , even the signing by a Congressman of a pledge that is held by any person or entity other than the United States of America seems to have treasonous overtones, the whole Norquist deal has a really foul stench to it, and it isn't the smell of a healthy Democracy at work.

Oh Yeah Bob with a meaningless bunch of Numbers. The Banana Republican pledge is:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Corporate States of America and to the Oligarchs for which it stands, a fractured nation, godless, divisible, with liberty and justice for none.

How's that strike ya bunky?

TorpedoYou Bob ain't just right, leave him be.

torpedo - I understand that business is the backbone of a country and that business gives far more to a country and its people than government gives to its people. Business is what generates the revenues by which the government pays out. Slam it all you want, but without business, a country has nothing.

No, that does not mean that business should be allowed to run amok or fail to have any type of social/political responsibility

Yeah, I fear that this whole deal is not going to end well.

Your leftist rhetoric and class warfare mentality is so.. 1960s..

"Only when represented can workers expect to receive appropriate compensation for their contribution to the economy and the nation"

I beg to differ. Individuals should be compensated based on their success in the task they are hired to do. The sky should be the limit.

Unions coddle lazy and unproductive workers, and reward failure.

A successful teacher should be highly compensated. A lazy unsuccessful teacher should be terminated.

Under public employee union rules, neither can happen.

The public education system is a flat failure, but you want to keep subsidizing failure!

Bravo, opajack. Well said.

These numbers speak for themselves:

Salary of retired US Presidents .............$180,000 FOR LIFE
Salary of House/Senate .......................$174,00​0 FOR LIFE
Salary of Speaker of the House ............$223,500 FOR LIFE
Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders ...... $193,400 FOR LIFE
Average Salary of a teacher ................ $40,065
...Average Salary of Soldier DEPLOYED IN AFGHANISTAN $38,000

opajac, no reasonable honest human being can argue with the point your post projects, but the Republicans can, their motto is "no one is deserving of anything but me", if you are not immoral enough to take what you want from someone else by what ever means necessary or just born rich, you are a lazy liberal socialist, their ideology is easy to follow and quite reprehensible.

Hi Feisty,

Good info.

Thanks Job! - sort of puts it into perspective don't it?

Salary of retired US Presidents .............$180,000 FOR LIFE
Salary of House/Senate .......................$174,00​0 FOR LIFE
Salary of Speaker of the House ............$223,500 FOR LIFE
Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders ...... $193,400 FOR LIFE
Average Salary of a teacher ................ $40,065
...Average Salary of Soldier DEPLOYED IN AFGHANISTAN $38,000

That is plain disgusting. So what their excuse for these benefits? Oh, the we would be able to get best people to run for public office, crap. Rand Paul, Wilson, McConnell, Ryan, Vitter, Issa... are consider good choices? That's laughable at best.

w bush - of course the argument can be made if results aren't achieved why not lose the teachers that don't cut it? Why shouldn't parents want to see their kids taught by competent teachers and get rid of those that aren't competent? The other argument that can easily be made is at a strictly monetary level as well on what is affordable and what is not.

Obama in recent weeks has been running ads about education and how he wouldn't have taken the oath of office as potus if he didn't first graduate from HS and that 30% of todays high schoolers don't graduate. Last fall the Des moines sunday register reported that there was no significant increase in Iowa students being any better prepared when taught by a higher paid teacher with a masters than without. Both examples point to both structural and teacher competency issues with change being required. Change that has little to do with salary or benefits.

Opas arguments for union representation is wrong in light of existing government regulations, job competitiveness (whether private or public sector), job satisfaction and job competancy. Seems that unions have placed job competancy and proficiency on the backburner while union work rules keep underperformers on the job and may very well stifle teacher innovations in teaching. Seems that public teacher unions have the motto of "show us the money and benefits and MAYBE we will teach your kids" More likely it should be the school boards and parents that demand that the unions and teachers show us the results before we show them the money and benefits.

Hillary has indicated she will be retiring from government after the next Presidential election. Doesn't sound to me, she has the "fire in the belly". We have a candidate, our current POTUS. Why would we want to muck up a good thing? I understand the disorganized Repugs would wish for a free for all on the Democrats side, but we won't play along. So sorry for you & yours!

Amused --- please be honest though....deep down don't you wish she was the potus instead of obama?

Can't speak for Amused, but for myself I have never regretted my vote for President Obama and I am proud and pleased that he is our President. I will be honored to vote for his re-election in 2012.

Through her graciousness in defeat and her service to our country as Secretary of State, I have come to admire Hillary Clinton and I hope she changes her mind and runs in 2016.

We will stick with the President. He is just getting warmed up.

Job1, are you saying there's more coming from Obama?? If what he has done is warming up, I would hate to see when he's on a roll!!

Nobody cares what anybody from Florida thinks since the first Bush"Election"

Rob in ma - As a matter of fact, Hillary was my choice to be the nominee and got my vote in the primary. When that didn't pan out, I had no problem supporting with money and my vote for the POTUS. So, no Rob, I have no regrets that Hillary wasn't elected Pres. The POTUS can count on my contributions and vote in 2012 election. Obama "Four more Years" 2012!

Well stated "Laurie". Unfortunately most people are like sheep that need to be herded. That's what happens when you take critical thinking out of school curriculums. We have lost that ability in this country sadly. Term limits must happen if we are ever to rid ourselves of what the founding fathers warned us about, "career politicians"...

These right wing extremist are just plain mean and they don’t give a darn about anyone but themselves.

Well said Laurie, but the truth lies somewhere in the middle. When my brother who holds a PHD in Special Ed can work for a school district for 20 years @ 80K then cash out on 50K @ 52 then be re-hired by the same district at a 10K lower salary, one can understand the anger of the republicans. It is wrong for him to go be re hired by the same government that "let him go for budgetary reasons."

It used to be that if you worked in the public sector, you traded a lower salary for job security. This is not so now.

Well said Torpedo.

Now apply that to the firemen, cops and all the other public service employees, but double the salaries.

Our fire chief retired recently at $180k, with a six figure pension for life, at age 52. She then went a county over and got rehired at six figures.

Nice work if you can get it, but totally unsustainable.

Bob the Dem's appointed Baucus and Kerry they both play for your team, now the Republicans on the other hand have selected six people who have all pledged their alledgance to the Iitola of Repub's Grover Norquist, Grovers even has a signed document to prove it, fair and balanced just like fox news, you are a funny cat Bob.

BS, show me where the Speaker accepted those revenue increases. He said from day one tax increases were off the table.

frespech

Come on 2012

Carefull what you wise for. You just might get it.

"frespech" Remember, you are dealing with folks that ignore reality unless its their version of it. These are the same folks who sat by and said nothing when GWB was ballooning the deficit and raised the debt ceiling 7 times without any fanfare. Now, its a national crisis and we have to solve the problem yesterday. Hypocrisy has no boundries...

We must have revenue increases. It's going to happen.

freespech

Let's assume what you say is correct ( I disagree about what really happened and the nature of the "cuts" Obama was proposing but we can set that argument aside for now). All Mr. Obama had to do then was go to Speaker Boehner and tell him that, in exchange for Mr Obama agreeing to sign off on a balanced budget amendment, the Repubs would have to agree to some tax reforms/increases with the revenues therefrom targeted exclusively to paying down the debt.The Repubs would have been boxed in and the deal would have been done. But Mr. Obama 's refusal to agree to a balanced budget amendment or even a plan to balance the budget in a relatively reasonable period of time ( say 5 to 7 years) prevented him from getting a grand deal that would have US on a clear path back to fiscal sanity. A real leader never would have missed an opportunity like that. But, for an ideologue like Obama, he just couldn't get it done. Now we are seeing the effects of his lack of leadership.

Trust me "yellowdog" there is no way that whatever this committee comes up with will be binding. The crap will come right back to congress and we'll go through this whole exercise again - Kabuki theater Washington style.

Yellowdog looks like a simple majority of the super committee is all that is required to pass a plan inside the committee. Which will then be voted on by the full Congress. Judging from who the Dem's have selected for the committee the Republicans already have the votes required to pass something on to Congress.

The republicans have already said that cuts only are on the table and no tax increases, continuing the theory that the rich are more important than America.

Republican have hitched their wagon to the rich. They don't intend to break their promise to Norquist. Being I don't think their are any repulbican that haven't signed the pledge, every republican on that panel is held to Norquist first and country last.

Republicans hate America and their treasonist pledge to Norquist proves it.

First off, lowering the capital gains tax will not produce a single job. If anything the capital gains tax rates need to be returned to preBush levels. In fact, an 80% rate on assets held under 5 years would be a good start. We need to put an end to the destructive casino-like behavior low capital gains rates engender.

"sonmanvb" - Lowering capital gains taxes will not create jobs. Don't buy into the republican BS. Lowering taxes do not equate to job creation, never has and there is empirical historic economic data to support that contention. The tax loopholes and off shore havens aren't necessary, neither are the subsidies. If corporate, wealthy tax cuts and deregulation worked, GWB's terms would have experienced economic booms. In fact, GWB was the worse job creating president since Eisenhower. He produced the largest single budget deficit year (2003) than any president before him going back to George Washington.