No - The person who said that needs to address it.

This meltdown caused by Obama and the Democrats sure knocked Rupert Murdoch off the front pages.

It's about time! Romney and Pawlenty are just telling the truth, something the voters have been waiting for! It is now time to reverse the downward direction of the country! Stop the obama nighmare!

Obama needs to issue a public apology for using such a violent term in his campaign

Janet honey -- go look up the meaning of the word strategist & get back to us will ya?

prominent Democratic strategist aligned with the White House told Politico.

Club for Growth and America for Prosperity are two conservative groups that are opposed to Romney. I'm not convinced Romney will even get the domination. It may depend on what Rick Perry decides over the weekend. In this political climate, Rick Perry could beat Mitt Romney. Then expect four more years of President Obama.

Please, Amy.

Stop.

Just stop.

You can't be serious.

JoAnnaSmith1

This meltdown caused by Obama and the Democrats sure knocked Rupert Murdoch off the front pages

Meltdown that Obama and the dems caused..? What polls do you read?.....And where were you when the lights went out?...Let me guess; hiding in the closet with t-repugs?

Okay, so have the "strategist" apologize. Ultimately isn't Obama responsible for his campaign?

Feisty, quit calling me "honey". I find it disrepectful, and it offends me. Oh wait, your goal is to offend as many people as possible.

Amy: I have a vision in my head of President Obama fighting a seven headed dragon.

Obama isn't much of a fighter. He's more a roll over and play dead kind of a president, kind of like a possum.

"Romney as inauthentic and will use his Bain Capital days against him -- if Romney is the GOP nominee"

So, what's wrong in using his accomplishments from Bain Capital or Mit, are you not so proud of this just like RomneyCare?

Janet-numbers,

Honey, Obama is responsible for his campaign. Too bad this strategist is NOT affiliated with his campaign. Thanks for also giving us a button to push honey. Thanks. How about sweetie? Can we call you sweetie?

Bain Capital days, where Mitt and company, take over companies, tear them apart and fire all of the workers.

Real Job creators.

Romney says "Obama campaign 'disgraceful,''despicable'" ???

What is this, ANOTHER GOPer that's all mouth and no muscle?

Who'd a thunk it. Can't wait for the debates. "But YOU suck". "but YOU suck twice". "oh yeah- YOU suck infinite" Ad Nauseum....

Big Business does need rules and regulations to keep them in line. Study your history and you will quickly learn why. Study Theodore Roosevelt. Facts are facts.

" He clearly is only interested in creating government jobs, not private sector jobs..... take your blinders off and look at BO's record!"

So, then- if 'BO' creates, say, 10,000 government jobs, will the newly employed workers only spend their paychecks at government-owned and operated stores? Or, will they spend some of that cash in the free markets on main street???

No Drive By I think the debate will have just a little do do with Obama's record.

You know, cause this time Hope and Change have been defined. We can see exactly what he did and the results.

And how about them results? Just super, right?

Or maybe you can point us to an economic decision Obama has made that has not sucked? Go ahead, give it a try.

Joe in Albany, It's true! I still have a crush on Obama.

You seem to float onto the floor
Democratic Convention 2004
I never wanted anybody more
Than I want you
So I put down my Kerry sign
Knew I had to make you mine

...I'm your worst nightmare, Joe, and I help Get Out The Vote! :)

Hey Feisty, notice it was a Democratic strategist who said that Obama does not have any accomplishments to run on? Now go ahead and trash the Republican party, or say, "Obama is bad, but they are worse". You know things are rough when a "prominent Democratic strategist" acknowledges that Obama can't win running on his accomplishments "unless something changes". No matter how you try to spin this, that is not a statement in support of Obama earning a second term.

Feisty,

Republican Presidential talking points for the uninitiated: "Forks...manure...despicable...disgraceful...sucked/not sucked... etc."

Just the GOP-Denigrate-Demean-Filthydirty verbal abuser strategy they've always used.

Just the GOP-Denigrate-Demean-Filthydirty verbal abuser strategy they've always used.

You know it!

Now that liberals are shoveling some of it back at them - they whimper like sissies!

Liberals always taking the 'high ground' has cost of more then a few elections...

I'm willing to roll up my sleeves & get into the mud pit with them!

What if one of the Republican canidates said "Lets just kill Obama" Oh my the Liberal press would have a hay day with that. first the canidate who said that would be hounded by the press...they would demand an apology. They would call the canidate a raciest and un-American.....so that is what they should do to Obama.. call him what he is......he is a racist and he is un-American and he should apoligize to the American people for saying that.

Rather than focus on items of significance like say, J O B S!

Well Feisty, Obama has had 2.5 yrs to do so and hasn't.

"It is disgraceful that President Obama's campaign has launched his re-election with the stated goal to 'kill' his opponent with an onslaught of negative and personal attacks.

I thought we were past using such violent wording, especially after what happend to Gabby Giffords. So, the president's re-election strategy is to bombard the media with negative attacks of his opponents? Well, at least he has a strategy for this issue. Too bad he doesn't have one for fixing our country's economic trouble......here's an idea mr. president......STOP SPENDING OUR COUNTRY INTO THE POORHOUSE.

Feisty, kind of like the way the Democrats cry about corporate donations because the Republicans are finally almost on an even playing field when it comes to campaign spending?

Go Obama, take a page from the republican campaign book,they pull no punches to demolish their opponents feel free to do the same. One difference is Obama won't be lying.

Spanky: You know, cause this time Hope and Change have been defined

There won't be much Hope in Obama's campaign next year. His campaign will be more about Deceit and Destruction.

Let me get this straight.

A fiip-flopping, job-killing, venture capitalist and former socialist governor calls his opponent "dispicable" for threatening to expose his record?

Seriously?!

What would he say if the President threatened to make things up?

Then again, the President doesn't have to, does he?

beanne,
please do try and keep up. it was a strategist that said that not the President. Would you like to aplogize now for calling the President a racist and un-American?

beanne,

he is a racist and he is un-American and he should apoligize to the American people for saying that.

For saying what exactly?

"It is disgraceful that President Obama's campaign has launched his re-election with the stated goal to 'kill' his opponent with an onslaught of negative and personal attacks.

Uh oh, The GOTP sure hates it when you steal a play out of their playbook! Sorry Matt, This is politics not a church social. Time to put on your big boy pants.

Mark, Lake Tahoe:

As a blind supporter of obama how can you even bring up J O B S, obama has been at war with the private sector since 2008. He clearly is only interested in creating government jobs, not private sector jobs..... take your blinders off and look at BO's record!

Take off YOURS, buddy. Here's the record:

Here are the jobs numbers from 2008 --

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2009/jan/wk2/art02.htm

As you can see, unemployment rose 2.3 percent (from 4.9 to 7.2 percent) during calendar 2008 -- BEFORE the President took office.

And here's a graph showing what happened after that --

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

In particular, look at the sharp spike in unemployment through 2008. Also note that while unemployment continues to go up through the first three quarters of 2009, as an obvious consequence of the Bush recession -- don't forget the market crash in the fall of 2008 -- after mid-2009, the overall trend in unemployment is slowly downward, until we get to the recent spike.

So to say that President Obama is no friend of jobs belies the President's actual record, and by more than just a bit.

But I guess that was today's talking point, wasn't it?

At least you've finally given up that silly stuff you've been posting about Rick Perry.

Now, now... we all know that Romney's just trying to be helpful... his comments will go a long way to help consumer confidence and, thus, the economy... Oh, I forgot, Romney is a trickle down economist (which is like no economist at all).

drive by observer,

So, then- if 'BO' creates, say, 10,000 government jobs, will the newly employed workers only spend their paychecks at government-owned and operated stores? Or, will they spend some of that cash in the free markets on main street???

lol, that is a pretty silly comment DBO, creating government jobs is part of the spending addiction Obama can't seem to shake and part of the reason our credit rating dropped. It is the taxpayers that pay those salaries! Don't you understand the difference between creating government (public) jobs and creating real jobas that provide tax revenue? We don't need to increase the size of government, we need to reduce it!

“Unless things change and Obama can run on accomplishments, he will have to kill Romney,” said a prominent Democratic strategist aligned with the White House.

Doesn't say who's strategist he/she is, doesn't even give a name. Could be the white house door man for all anyone knows.

Oh come now, Feisty; we learned our "verbal abuse" techniques from libs like you during the eight years of Bush......you know, shrub, nazi, moron, cowboy........

TamL: Doesn't say who's strategist he/she is, doesn't even give a name. Could be the white house door man for all anyone knows.

So that means it was Biden.

I just noticed that in a recent Pew poll, 20% of self-identified likely Republican voters think that the 2012 election will happen in November 2011. 3% of Democrats thought the same thing. That is scary - almost 1 in 4 likely voters don't even know in what year they will be voting!

Let me get this straight, Romney and conservatives are bent out of shape because an unnamed democratic strategist "aligned" with the White House said something he/she should not have said (but we do not know the full context of the comment) while none of these conservatives, including Romney, condemned the violent rhetoric, the threats, the ugly and vile cartoons, pictures of hangings, "lock and reload", etc. coming from their side since Campaign 2008. Where were the apologies to President Obama?

Make those 11 years of "verbal abuse" for President Bush. He totaled our country beyond repair.

Hopefully, President Obama can get us fixed. However, he has a tough job with the Republican-Tea Baggers holding us back.

After everything we've seen Republicans say and do, Romney is whining about a potential strategy? When Republicans have and will do worse? Cry me a river.

Obama's campaign strategy. Sure I suck big time, but my opponent sucks worse. How do you know he sucks worse? Because I'm telling you. Now, all you little mindless zombies go and vote for me because if you don't, the big bad republican will take away all your freebies.

I see there's lot's of those zombies posting today.

JoAnnaSmith1

This meltdown caused by Obama and the Democrats sure knocked Rupert Murdoch off the front pages.

A few days earlier, Boner was bragging that he got 95% of what he wanted in this debt deal. A few days later, S&P downgraded our credit rating BECAUSE of the debt deal. So isn't Boner 95% at fault for this meltdown?

Anna Molly you're so right on those job numbers I am getting sick of the distortions. We're growing jobs everyday, and that can't be denied. We are well on our way to a robust recovery, and I defy anyone to contradict that. If you can't see the progress we're making everyday you must be blind. Whatever he's doing lets hope he keeps doing it because if it aint broke why fix it.

Baylillie, read what the S&P said. It was not downgraded solely because of the debt deal. You can cherry pick all you want. They also said that the inability to curb spending and get entitlements under control was a reason for the debt downgrade. Continue to just include the parts that you think benefit your position though.

Further, this $4 trillion grand bargain that all Obama supporters claim would have prevented the downgrade is bogus too. Any package will be graded by the S&P and other rating agencies, not the Obama administration. You can bet they won't grade into the final analysis things like "increased revenue from a growing economy" at the same rate as Obama does. He had a 4% GDP growth this year, even though we were >1% at mid year. What a crock for both sides to try and absolve themselves of this mess.

Stop the Obama Nightmare? We should try stopping the Bush Nightmare first.

Larry,

Compare the progress of job creation during an economic recovery under Obama (hovering around 130,000 jobs per month) to that of the President Reagan's (more than 238,000 jobs per month for 7-years straight) and you'll see that our current President's policies are failing.

ChiCity

Baylillie, read what the S&P said. It was not downgraded solely because of the debt deal. You can cherry pick all you want. They also said that the inability to curb spending and get entitlements under control was a reason for the debt downgrade.

didn't the debt deal include cuts in spending? Boner was very pleased with the deal...he was very pleased with the cuts...it's the whole package, isn't it?

the discretionary cuts were passed by the House - the Speaker John Boehner's plan.

Again, Boner was pleased with the deal - if it was such a crappy deal - why was he pleased?

He actually claimed 98% of the current economic situation we find ourselves in. Still waiting for the typical bashers to explain this curious pride in total failure called "Republican Leadership".

Additionally, McConnell said that "the Republicans listened to the American people and did what they wanted", ignoring the fact that a majority of American people wanted a balance approach including cuts and revenue increases to address this problem. Apparently Mr. McConnell thinks he has the authority to revoke the citizenships of 70% of the country.

C'mon ChrisWanker, our problems have been getting worse through many previous administrations. Bush'e policies mirrored those of Clinton. The chickens came home to roost under Bush's administration. Under President Obama's administration, the chickens have taken to the streets looking for their next meal. Unfortunate that Obama and this country, who I had so much hope for when I voted for him, his policies are just not working.

TO: janet-489369 who wrote:

"... Obama needs to issue a public apology for using such a violent term in his campaign. I'll wait for the democrats to call for such a statement."

^^^^^^^^^^^^

We have heard NOTHING BUT Hate Speech coming from Republicans ever since President Obama was elected, and NOW you want what?

Never!

Baylillie, once again you refuse to answer a direct question to your post. You said, "S&P downgraded our credit rating BECAUSE of the debt deal". I said you were being selective about why the credit rating was downgraded.

I don't know why Boehner was pleased. Probably because he felt he got as much as he could out of the deal, while giving up as little as possible. Would you care to revise your statement about why the S&P downgraded us?

If there is one thing that I learned from the 2010 election, it's that you cannot believe anything that the republican's or tea party says.

TO: janet-489369 who wrote:

"...Okay, so have the "strategist" apologize."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hell no.

TO: Mark from Lake Tahoe who wrote:

"... how can you even bring up J O B S..."

"... obama is ... not [interested in creating] private sector jobs..."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We can bring up jobs because that was lie Tea Baggers ran on in order to get elected.

As for Republicans and private sector jobs: When are Republicans going to be able to go into business without poisoning our water, polluting our air, or burying nuclear waste near or homes?

It seems everytime a Republican wants to go into business it means the American People have to suffer poor health.

Republicans don't want the American People to have affordable heath care, but the GOP ALWAYS wants to do something to cause the American People to become unhealthy.

Lanikai Ron

Larry,

Compare the progress of job creation during an economic recovery under Obama (hovering around 130,000 jobs per month) to that of the President Reagan's (more than 238,000 jobs per month for 7-years straight) and you'll see that our current President's policies are failing.

Reagan also had a congress willing to do what's best for the nation. Also, he (and the congress) raised taxes to improve the deficit.

if Obama had comprimise and a fair shake at getting his agenda through, we would be in a much different place. But you know that don't you, and that is the point...

Lanikai Ron, how can you tell if his policies are working when the republicans have fought him tooth and nail, filibustered more times than any other congress in history, held the economy hostage? If all his policies were enacted then maybe you could say that (if it was true) but since they weren't due to the republican policy of making the president fail-you should blame the republicans for the mess we are in.

Was S&P talking about downgrading before the months of bullsh1it in the debt ceiling debacle caused by the republicans? NO-had the debt ceiling been raised without any fanfare like it has been done something like 30 times in the last 30 years they would not have done it.From what I read it was primarily the gridlock and the fact that the republicans will not allow revenue increases that precipitated the downgrade.

Were is the Rely button.... Oh the repukes said no reply button today or forever. Only because President Obama is in office.

Once he gets out we will really screw them.

President Obama - you have free checkups once a year.

Slick Mick - Bain Capital fired thousands of people

President Obama - Free cancer screenings

Slick Mick - I'm drawing a blank here.

President Obama - Financial Reform against the crooks on wall street.

Slick Mick - I'm drawing a blank again.

President Obama - Tax cut on your FICA taxes average 1,200 a year.

Slick Mick - Oh the President Obama campaign said bad words to me.

President Obama - Equal pay for equal work for women.

Slick Mick - Let's call the President Boy & Tar Baby while carrying a gun to his rally

I could go on and on. But the GOT/Tea Baggers would say NO...I refuse to talk with you because I want to get back in power even if i have to reck the world to accomplish my goal.

Obama can't help it - he is a classic narcissist - his only option now is to go nuclear on his opponents.

What is truly telling is that on the day he should be declaring a financial emergency, calling Congress back to work, and putting together real goals to solve this problem starting today, he is instead announcing more stringent regulations on trucks.

Why isn't this dimwit putting together practical goals - cut spending 1% per month in every dept, decrease unemployment (by adding jobs) by .1% to .2% - there are real concrete things that these clowns can do, but instead, they are vacationing and celebrating yet more job-killing regulation.

Yeah, someone may want to send him Leadership 101 to read.

Andie, what was accomplished during his two year filibuster proof majority? Wouldn't you think that a budget would be on the top of the list?

ChiCity -- The filibuster-proof majority was for only nine months, and despite all the obstructionism (that you are admitting was unduly required by the obstructionist GOP), Pelosi passed 304 bills in her first term. Boehner is at something like 14 bills passed. There is a list of all that was passed (those who are intellectually honest can look it up), much of which was far more significant than naming a building, for example financial reform. You can have your own opinions but not your own facts.

Back to Gordon Gekko, I laughed at the "disgraceful" and "despicable" description of the president's campaign. Who received a "straw" (Illegal) donation of 1 million? When reporters called the phone number to contact the donor, Bain Capital answered the phone. No surprise to see this in connection to Romney who claimed his son's unfinished basement as his residence.

And on to Warren Jeffs, who's a stones throw from the Mormon church. Utah, which was once a theocracy, still has many elements of those days. They still believe in a prophet that receives modern revelation (like Warren Jeffs minus sex with minors). Mormons can practice their religion--religious freedom we all support--but that doesn't mean I want someone with such beliefs to be president of our country and leader of the free world.

These are legitimate issues for voters, whether you like it or not. Those who focus on Presdient Obama are only trying to avoid focus on what THEY stand for. What is Romney's platform, solutions, qualification?

I have to say, I think the budget would have been alot easier to get finished if we didn't have 3 wars going on.

There's George's war in Iraq to finish what his daddy started. Mission accomplished, troops still there fighting though.

There's George's war in Afghanistan chasing Bin Laden. Mission accomplished, Troops still there fighting though.

Finally there's Obama's illegal war in Libya. No Mission, no accomplishments.

With the way Obama has been hammered with as far as insults go, (I've been as bad as anyone on that), I don't blame him for saving his negativity until campaigns start. That's where the negativity needs to come out. Hopefully, we're a little smarter voters this time around, and actually check into the dirt that is thrown around in the upcoming elections so we know the truth.

(This is where the T-partiers need to pay attention) Contrary to what happened in the last election, the negativity is supposed to stop after the campaigns end! If they continue to fight and sling mud and refuse to work WITH one another we have, well, what we have right now! Dysfunctional government.

When there is a dysfunctional government it really doesn't matter who is president, nothing good will come out it. When people REFUSE to compromise to bring our economy back on track, we have a dysfunctional government. I don't blame Obama for getting mad, I would too.

It's like if you were the captain of the football team and the rest of the team refused to play or actually did things to set you behind. Then everyone blames you because you are the captain. Let's face it he can lead them to the budget, and he did, but congress has to take it from there. THEY FAILED BECAUSE THEY ARE DYSFUNCTIONAL.

True Patriot, your contention that Nancy Pelosi passing 304 bills is a good thing just because the number is high, is laughable.

Just as you like to point out that most of the US doesn't like the TEA Party, the same is true of Nancy Pelosi. Those 304 bills are largely what got all those Dems voted out of office in 2010.

My mistake for the length of time on the supermajority. Clearly, 9 months was not long enough to pass a budget or any other meaningful legislation except for healthcare, which we had to pass to know what was in it (which a majority of American's are opposed to).

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

Obama reminds me of an old saying;

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS"

One thing the Republicans deny is the real reason for the federal deficit.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/92569/bush-obama-deficit-tax-cut-stimulus-health

"Team Obama plans to portray Romney as inauthentic"

What? Dems basing their election hopes on attacking their opposition rather than promoting anything good about themselves, we are totally shocked. (sarcasm)

I suppose when the best thing you can say about yourselves is that Anthony Weiner is no longer part of your party you don't have much choice but to attack others.

Reminds me of their "always call the Tea party" extreme "strategy". Like mean girls in junior high, nothing but hate and contempt for anyone who challenges them.

Lanikai,

Just out of curiosity, what did you think of Clinton's policy to curb the dept within 10 years? And then after you contemplate that for a bit.... What do you think of Bush doubling the spending within his first term?

Feisty and American Gil, you two are blind, and the epitome of hypocrisy. You are the proverbial ultimate "pot calling the kettle black."

ChiCity,

We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.

Our lowering of the rating was prompted by our view on the rising public debt burden and our perception of greater policymaking uncertainty, consistent with our criteria. Nevertheless, we view the U.S. federal government's other economic, external, and monetary credit attributes, which form the basis for the sovereign rating, as broadly unchanged.

This is the statement that S & P released. Again, the the fiscal consolidation plan they speak of, is the very one that Boner bragged about. And again, if one party brags about the ownership of the 98% (changed from my original 95% - because I was rightfully corrected) of what's in THAT deal, you cannot deny who owns it!!!!!

Really now, just what positive record of accomplishment does Obama have to run on? "It's The Economy Stupid", and the economy isn't very good. What Obama will have is $1 billion dollars in cash, and plenty support in the MSM to run his re-election campaign. Obama himself will keep it soft with more flowery rhetoric like "Yes We Can" and "Win The Future". But his campaign ads will be nothing short of harsh and negative with a lot of mud and a lot of lies against his opponent. A billion dollars will buy Obama a lot of manure, and he'll be spreading every single ounce of it.

I can't imagine anyone doing more to harm this country than obama has accomplished in less than 3 years! We would have to go back to Woodrow Wilson and even he couldn't hold a candle next to obama's devastating tornado!

My My My, has America forgotten this quickly that George W. Bush admitted from the Oval Office that it'll be a Long time before the Educated figure out what happened during his Administration?

All Polls say NO, but Americans Memorys don't have a Great Track record!

America, Do Not Forget:

Who came BEGGING in the Fall of 2008, "George W. Bush" to Bail his administration out!

America, Do Not Forget:

Republicans have Fillibustered EVERY attempt at JOB Creation put forth by President Obama!

America, Do Not Forget:

That the GOP has Attempted to Rewrite History from the time George W. Bushes behind was Walking Out the Door, & Lay the Blame at the Feet of the Incoming President!

America, Do Not Forget:

That a lot of ya Voted for George W. Bush Twice & the Blame Falls on:

YOU!

Mixed Bag..

I would almost agree with you if you can tell me what Romney is against now, that he was for in 2008 and vice versa. Do we know what his position is on anything? Has he provided a position BEFORE any debate/crisis is over? Would be nice to show some leadership or give advise to the GOP as he is currently the front runner. He's runaway from everything he's done and redefined himself as a "right leaning conservative".

Mixed, he was a partner in a leveraged buyout firm, Bain Capital, that took distressed firms and liquidated them...not save them...after selling off everything of value. Doesn't take a whole of business sense to carry out a liquidation. Saving it shows business savvy.

Who is Romney, what does he believe in TODAY, why hasn't he stated hi positions on matters of importance while the debate raged.

He defines leading from behind...

MB

Rather than push for Romney, Huntsman is the only credible candidate worth looking at that can give Obama a serious challenge. Not that I care.

MY,MY,MY, when are you going to get a clue? Governement doesn't create jobs? Private Industries do. It's the regulations , taxes, and all the red tape that make smaller businesses and people who want to start up new businesses to either quit, not hire new employees, or not start up at all.

FYI, your guy OBAMA was uppose to fix things. He just made things worse. Quit playing up the job creation card. The only thing the government does is create a friendly climate for businesses. You can't do that by trying to get more taxes from people who worked hard to make themselves wealthier and who also create more jobs"WOW!" what a concept.

IRA - So who is a bigger leader from behind in your estimation? Not like Romney is in a leadership positin. Whereas Obama certainly is.

Pius - a mop handle and a wig.

Or have you not been paying attention?

Hey where's Hillary? It's 3:00 am and Goldman Sachs is on the line. They need another big bailout. But Obama has no more money.....Uh, oh, looks like another 1,000 points goes down the crapper.

A billion dollars will buy Obama a lot of manure, and he'll be spreading every single ounce of it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manure makes things grow. I will take a cup full for my garden.

Spanky..

As always, good morning.

The man doesn't have to be in a leadership position to make an impact. He is the current leader of the GOP pack and even if he weren't, does he not have an obligation to the voters to let them where he stands on the critical issues of the day. I would like to know. Maybe he can change my mind.

He sure is good at doing that.....after the fact...20/20 hindsight.

That's leading from behind with hindsight...wish I had the results of the NFL games for the coming year.

I'm disgusted- voted for Obama and got a big wimp instead. Hilary, sorry I didn't vote for you.

Ohh..the markets up 214 and holding.

Perhaps we recoup the losses of yesterday over the next several days.

I'ma guessing EdnFlorida also voted twice for Bush, but it's just a Guess!

Hyoski, which JOBS are You talking about, the 8,000,000 that were Lost, the last 2 years of the ChickenGeorge Administration, or the 2,000,000 that were recovered shortly after the Stimulus went into Effect.

Maybe you're talking about the New JOBS created 3 months after the TeaParty was Elected! You know, 17,000 & 40,000 in May & June!

Thats confidence for ya right there, that the JOB Creators (Non TaxPayers) have in the very people they backed last November!

It's Efning Hillarious watching the Carnival Barkers(formerly known as the MSM) carrying the WaterBucket for the GOP in thier attempt to Rewrite HISTORY!

Ira-

The 2012 campaign is going to be about President Obama and his record.

No amount of opposition research or cash spent on negative campaign ads targeting his opponent (Mitt Romney or anyone else) changes that.

Those ads are shiny objects intended to distract.

Were that not the case, the President would run on his record of achievement.

The 2008 candidate of "Hope And Change" will instead tell voters that the alternative to reelecting him is to elect someone even worse.

I don't believe that's going to work, Ira.

Considering who Barack Obama once was and now is, that strategy is a little too jarring, and certainly far too cynical...for the electorate to accept.

Wow! The 2,000,000 jobs that were recovered when the stimulus took effect? What country was that in, Afghanistan?

The HNIC has singlehandedly put 8,000,000 Americans out of work.

bfitz,

The HNIC has singlehandedly put 8,000,000 Americans out of work.

First of all, your a racist pig. HNIC, how dare you?

Second, that 8,000,000 number belongs to your leader, Dubya. Indeed he screwed the american middle class.

Mixed Bag:

The 2012 election will be about Obama and his record, and yes he does have a record.

You can view his record as saving the economy from collapse in 2008 and asking what would have happened if he didn't. Think about the if he didn't effect on THIS economy. Call it the Great Depression Part 2.

There is no running away from the post stimulus period but I do not think anyone in America could have gotten different results. Given, the first 2 years were wasted on HCR when the focus should have been on jobs and the economy, the post 2010 election period has been, to use the S&P description, a debacle. Congress is disliked more than Obama. So far he wins in a split decision.

Still a lot of people like him personally and are hoping for that change-y thing with a new Congress. Some folks the same change-y thing with a new President.

That hope-y thing is for the country. That we can extricate ourselves from this hole we are in. That can't happen without compromise and we both know that's a long shot.

As we both said earlier, per Mr. Murray, the President needs to define himself in the next 15 months or he will be in the political fight of his life regardless the candidate.

I agree with your last post, Mixed Bag- this election is about Obama's record. That they have decided on a fear and smear campaign is a sign of just how desperate they are at this point.

I read the Politico piece this morning- to tell the truth, I was astonished to see it even mentioned on this site.

I noticed that they left out one salient bit- the term the Obama team has decided is to be used against Romney is "weird"- in the same way they hung the tag "erratic" on McCain.

Difference is, in this case, "weird" is code for "Mormon".

This is a transparently obvious case of religious intolerance, used by a desperate loser who will do anything to hang on to a job for which he is historically, unprecedentedly unsuited.

Ira - he has already defined himself.

Besides, like it all goes back to the libbie god king Clinton: "it's the economy stupid."

And brother, the economy sucks. Not even Amy's dragon slaying super hero can change that reality.

And there just are not enough dulusional types like Amy out there. Hell, what are the chances that Amy, a receptionist [not exactly a lot of job security in that field] will be employed come election time?

The real question is - would unemployment cause her to re-evaluate her girlish fantasies? I suspect, sadly, not. Once the slayer is drawn on the Trapper-Keeper, it is set in stone.

I know this cause Zepplin still RULES! Oh wait, that's what the sides of my Vans said.

Bryan E., PA..

No one speaks of it, but the bfitz comments has to account for a large portion of the anti-Obama sentiment in large parts of this country.

Sad in this day and age that we still need to deal with this nonsense.

Spanky-

Idiot. My van says Clapton is God.

No..I think he reeds to define himself and he has time.

All mixed signals and that hope-y thing is real tarnished.

But he's well liked...likeability ratings are way higher than job ratings and so are the trust ratings. He kills the GOP when it comes to trust.

This ain't over till it's over...the other side of my van.

Bfitz is black.

He is using an acronym that is used in the black community everyday.

Everyone that use racially charged words is not white. Half of you Liberal caucasions in here has never had a black friend nor do you know any blacks; but yet pretend to give a ....... about racism.

Clinton was, personally, disliked by many in the electorate. His job approval numbers, however, were pretty high, having risen after he got himself a republican congress.

Obama is the reverse.

He needs to "define" himself? He is already defined- an ideologically rigid, self-absorbed failure.

I will admit that you use your considerable writing skills to regurgitate the talking points, but they remain talking points- old, worn out talking points, at that.

No one is buying "he saved us from Depression". If you bothered to notice, the poor economy and laggard recovery weighed part of the S&P downgrade. A very large part, in fact, since, if we had the kind of recovery that took place after every recession post World War II, we would have grown out of a lot of this debt.

How much failure does it take before you admit the truth- you nominated the wrong candidate, and elected someone totally unsuited to the job?

IntheMiddle, TX..

Bfitz is defined as exactly the same thing as yodeling, but when there is a nutsack in your mouth.

Now, how can one tell from that Bfitz is black from that?

Is Bfitz a he or she?

Gay or straight?

Can you divine Bfitz's religion?

Thanks.

Ira:

bfitz is defined as I know him. He is a str8 up bruh from the hollow. That is something I'm sure you don't understand.

The people with the sakks in their mouth are the one's constantly hollering "TeaBagger".

Ira, Yes Clapton is God!!!!!

I continue to say smartest people in election contest between McCain and Obama were in the McCain camp during the last Presidential Election campaign. They saw the collapse in the economy coming and knew it could not be stopped by either Obama or McCain. But when the collapse came if a Republican were President and Republican's had most of the power in Congress, it would doom the Republican party for years. Hence dumb move to Palin. Until that choice which cast doubt on McCain's judgement, McCain was a shoo in. Smartest thing the Republican Politicos have done in years is picking her for VP.

ha!

that he can rise above

He's a politician, that is not gonna happen.

yes but France has a leader while the US has an embarassment

Rob,

That is your opinion. That's all that is.

Rob, i'm assuming because he is black right? Cause from my seat, he has been going through a gauntlet ever since he was sworn in, with the objective of making him a first termer, yeah... he is the embarrasment alright. I would have thought, that not working together for the embetterment of our country, would be more embarrasing. Lets remember, the POTUS doesn't make, or write policies, that is the responsibility of Congress... yet the POTUS gets the blame excusing all of congress from either side. Why is that... probably because the mantra of not have a BLACK man in the WHITE house. While it is assumptuous of me to say such things, actions speak louder than words, though political pundit words speak louder than actions... it's called intent. Rush Limbaugh comes to mind.

Opinions are not facts.

King --- obama could be polka dot for all I care - - he's an embarrassment because of his failure to lead. The left and the media make nothing but excuses for him. 60 teapartiers in the house? All the problems are their fault? He is the PRESIDENT for christsakes!

MAN THE F' UP --- just goes to show you some people have skills and some don't

Opinion? yes Fact? well the results of his failed leadership are pretty factual as well.

I've been curious as to how exactly the critics of the President would describe leadership. Leadership takes many forms and great leaders have displayed a diversity in traits.

Also of issue is how effective a leader can be with a group that does not wish to be led. This is not a movie where the outsider basketball coach with his offbeat ways can win over the straight laced college team and shuffle them to victory in their heated rivalry all in under 120 minutes. This is the real world; and in the real world there are just always going to be those who just refuse to cooperate

So I put to you; specifically what leadership qualities (barring anything that you would consider as contributing to a dictatorial stance; I don't want to give you an easy opening) does this president lack and exactly how is he supposed to lead a group of people who are actively engaging in an attempt to make him fail?

Rob,

You're right, he's the President, not a dictator. No President can just demand that things go the way they want. We live in a country where there is a process, where there are rules. The Republicans have learned how to use those rule to force their ideology at the expense of the rest of the country. Your post shows that you have absolutely no understanding of how this country is governed. Try a civics class (remedial of course) and come back later.

spare me.....so Reagan didn't have detractors or people who actively engaged in an attempt to make him fail?

How about Clinton? You think Gingrich was a cheerleader for Slick Willy?

Both of those Presidents had respect (Clinton, of course lost quite a bit after Monica) from both sides of the aisle because they had leadership experience, good judgement, conviction and communication skills (unlike telepromter skills).

Jimmy Carter has always been considered a weak leader. Obama is right there with him.

It is what it is. I know the left can't accept it. They turned their back on Hillary. That is a shame as she would have done a much better job and more than likely been rewarded with a second term.

Instead the dems will be out of power come 2012

Reagan had Tip O'Neil. Clinton and Gingrich worked well together once the Newter lost any credibility in his own party and the philosophy of the Contract on America was found to be total crap.

There was no respect given by the right from the first day President Obama took office.

Reagan used the teleprompter with the same ease and frequency as President Obama. Why is it a problem now?

The race card isn't going to work in this election. Shows the desparation of the 1 Term 0bama supporters. This election is about the record of BHO which is worse than that of Jimmy Carter. We vote in just over 450 days. It is going to be an electoral college landslide against 1 Term 0bama - no matter who the GOP candidate is. People will not be fooled twice. Jan 20 2013 - the end of an error - 0bama's last day in office. Thank God.

No it doesn't. That is a false equivalency.

Perfect description of John Kerry except daddy and wifey contribute in his case!

You pass the ketchup! I'll pass on swiftboat johnny.

John Kerry served in Vietnam while Romney went proselytizing in France. I know Romney survived a car crash in France, and that's awful, but it's not quite the same as volunteering to serve in a war zone.

John Kerry made up a bunch of stories about serving in Vietnam....and he was only there 4 months when he requested a transfer back to the good old safe USA.

bfitz

"only" four months in Vietnam is alot longer than four months in Paris.

And Kerry risked his life to pull a fellow sailor to safety while under fire. I know that's not as "macho" in the Republicans' book as flying over Vietnam, dropping bombs and ending up a POW, but, still, it's more military service than any other Republican running for President today.

bfitz,

At least he went to the jungle. Which is probalby a lot more than we can say of you. Am i right?

bfitz, the swiftboaters made up a bunch of lies ABOUT john Kerry. Get the facts straight.

Defenders of John Kerry's service record, including nearly all of his former crewmates, have stated that SBVT's accusations are false.

On March 17, 1969, shortly after Kerry's third wound, Commodore Charles Horne, the commander of Coastal Squadron 1, filed for Kerry's reassignment to the U.S. per Kerry's request. He was entitled to this early departure from Vietnam (subject to approval by the Bureau of Naval Personnel), because those who had been wounded three times, "regardless of the nature of the wound or treatment required ... will not be ordered to serve in Vietnam and contiguous waters or to duty with ships or units which have been alerted for movement to that area."

bfitz, or is it bs? Thanks for the history rewrite. Spin away.

Senator Kerry enlisted, served "in country" and was decorated fro his service. Anyone who cavalierly discounts and denigrates that service in the wake of our tragic loss of many members of seal team 6 and other heroes this week calls their Patriotism and human decency into question...and answers it in the negative.

Senator Kerry the politician is open to partisan sniping, but John Kerry decorated veteran is entitled to the gratitude and respect of those he served and risked his life to protect.

Very well said, dangerfield.

Wow, dangerfield. I'm impressed. You are a true patriot.

Devie:

Let's start with the rank CDR: It's Commander, not Commodore which made him an O5.

Commander Horne was not in command of Coastal Squadron One at the time of Kerry's service. He commanded Costal Squadron Three, meaning he had no direct knowledge of LtJg Kerry, his duties or his performance other than the written record of that service which merely says he served without any elaboration.

The wound, a minor scratch, not requiring any treatment was allegedly received after LtJg Kerry fired an M79 at the shoreline by eye witness account. There is no official record of that account.

There is no naval record of any engagement with hostile troops in the National Archives or at the War College Library at the time Kerry claims he received his third wound. There are, however, the monthly historical summaries submitted by The Commander, US Naval Forces, Vietnam to the Secretaries of the Navy and Defense as well as all parent Naval Commands. There is no mention of any combat action by COSRON ONE in during the period LTJG Kerry claims his third wound.

Whether or not anyone lied is irrelevant, as there were a great many half truths told by and for Kerry but the records speak for themselves. They are available on-line for your perusal but I doubt you will avail yourself of the opportunity.

I am a vietnam combat veteram. I served as a part of STABRON 20 from January 1970 until December 1970. There were many sailors who served with distinction during that conflict but your swiftboat johnny wasn't one of them.

Before the Bush tax cuts, capital gains were taxed at the same rate as income. We had a boomming economy and a budget surplus before the Bush tax cuts. I got an extra 10 dollars a month becuase of the Bush tax cuts, so as a middle class person, the bush tax cuts did very little for me.

I don't know where you have been, but the tax cuts have done nothing for the job market.

Ten years of tax cuts, so where are the jobs? If tax cuts created jobs, shouldn't we be flush. 2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS should have created a lot of jobs.

Tax cuts didn't create jobs and tax increases are also not going to kill jobs. When the tax increases start helping pull America up, the increased demand will create more jobs.

When you are the party for the rich, what else can you do but make up every excuse and even threaten for protecting the rich from tax increases.

When you are the party for the rich

Sadest part is that these sheep will defend the rights of a millionaire while they are leveraged by the GOP to pay for the rich peoples fair share. Ignorant sheep.

Gosh American First it's almost like you actually know about hiring. So how many people have you hired in the last 5 years?

Tell me American First what are the top five factors you consider when thinking about hiring a new employee?

Gosh Spanky, you can sure change the subject.

I want to hear you defend your love for American and how tax cuts for the richest prove that love?

Spanky,

Tell me American First what are the top five factors you consider when thinking about hiring a new employee?

Your primitive understanding of economics and that which ails us is painfully evident in each one of your failed, cringe-inducing retorts. Really, you have no idea what you're talking about. Also, stop embarrassing yourself with these silly rhetorical questions.

Spanker,

I've not hired in the past 3 years as I sold my business and retired. But in the years from 1999 to 2008 I started my own business, hired about 160 people and created a successful manufacturing business that is still going today. During that time there was only one factor that influenced my hiring practice and that was demand. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who is honest who would say they would not hire to meet increased demand due to a tax rate that might be 3 to 4% higher. At least not one that stays in business very long.

You are correct. However, in the age of automation, increased demand can often be met without increased employee numbers. So, if you were not comfortable about the business climate and you thought taxes were going to be increased, would you hire new business development people? Again, this is assuming that demand can be met without need for additional employees, which happens all the time.

If the increase in demand could only be satisfied by hiring I would and have hired disregarding a minimal increase or threat or increase in taxes. To think that an employee can't make enough in profits to compensate for the minor cost of 3-4% in taxes on taxable income is only reason to question your own business plan and ability to choose good workers.

In addition, I did take advantage of available technology and automation and that allowed me to be more efficient thus giving me the opportunity to adjust my prices gaining market share and still keeping people employed and hire new when needed.

Negative campaigns a very boring. In this case it is not needed. Obama only has to stick to the facts.

Massachusetts ranked 47 out of 50 states for unemployment, when Romney was the Governor.

Romney made his fortune as a Venture Capitalist, buying up business's dissolving them and Laying off the workers.

Romney made his Millions sending people to the Unemployment lines. In this case the truth is just fine.

Romney is an expert at creating unemployment. He will have fun with America stopping the citizens from working. He likes doing that.

This is what Romney has to offer America as POTUS. Stick to the Facts.

Hey Wilberta, change that name and you could almost be talking about the POTUS.

@Skiddy,

This is also disgraceful on Romney's part

WASHINGTON -- While other GOP presidential candidates race to win Saturday's Ames Straw Poll, Mitt Romney is quietly racking up support among Washington power brokers and heavyweights in the Republican party. His early lead in fundraising with lobbyists, Wall Street donors, and bundlers who raised money for George W. Bush and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is testament to this strategy.

According to disclosure reports filed at the end of July, 61 registered lobbyists and five lobbyist-linked political action committees contributed $137,650 to Romney's campaign between Jan. 1 and June 30, 2011. The former Massachusetts governor raised more money from lobbyists during this period than all of his competitors combined.

The other Republican candidates who received contributions from lobbyists in the first half of 2011 were, in order of most money received, former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty ($63,204), former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman ($31,600), former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) ($25,500), former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum ($8,800), and Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn) ($125). The Obama campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) do not accept contributions from registered lobbyists.

Kathryn Sullivan-

My sentiments exactly.

Why are people pretending to be so obtuse?

Romney wants to call the Obama campaign “despicable”; “disgraceful”. What does he call the Republican Congressman from Colorado who recently referred to the President of the United States as “tar baby?” And Rush Limbaugh jumped on the story and repeated the slur numerous times during his broadcast to try and get a rise out of the President. That is despicable. Where is the outrage?

There is none. Because it is open season on the President where anything goes and the only news is when the he doesn’t perform like a circus animal for the MSM.

In another development, it did not take long for the naysayers on the left to start calling for the President to step aside. Apparently they don’t like that he is willing to compromise with the Al Qaeda members of Congress but is ok to work out a deal with the Taliban if it will get us out of Afghanistan sometime in the next 5 years.

As Mike Barnicle said this morning on Morning Joe, the Republicans aren't out todefeat the President, they are out to destroy him.

They had better be careful. Somebody is watching.

Stunning!

Anyone with a success record as empty as Barack Obama's list of victories should be ridiculed!

bfitz

Anyone with a success record as empty as Barack Obama's list of victories should be ridiculed!

Then post your accomplishments here so we can take a whack at you. Didn't think so.

bfitz... glad you dimiss the tarbaby comment... so if you are white... die cracker, i mean it's just fair right? Idiot.

Well we all know that the high ups in business and the GOP, don't like having a tar baby or a boy of color in charge. That goes against the grain of the good ole boy network.

It's a shame that the Racist still hold so much power.

In the early 60's I lived in a town in California that did not allow blacks to live in the city limits. A black family moved to town the grocery stores refused to sell them groceries until the family found a home outside of town. By law they had to let the boy in our high school class, but the stores were bound by no such laws. I don't remember him being there in high school more than a couple weeks.

I feel like the republican tea party are playing the same game. The tea party is going to take back our country from the Democrats who elected a black man for president. If the country fails, well it just our fault for electing President Obama. Who hasn't read those post here daily?

Wisconsin my heart is with you today. I feel in a large part, so goes Wisconsin so goes our country. If all the money the Koch brothers have invested in destroying Wisconsin doesn't actually destroy Wisconsin then the rest of us have a chance.

At this point it seems to me that the increased taxes on the Koch brothers that would assist America with the debt would be less than the million and millions they are spending on defeating Americans and killing the middle class. I wonder what the Koch brothers get if the republicans are sucessful in destroying America?

Its not about money. It is about their faith and faith in what dear old daddy Koch taught them was the truth. After all faith is more important than money and your daddy was never wrong about things.

didnt effect Teddy

Duane - I would say it affected the hero of Chappaquiddick. He lost the primary to Jimmy Carter of all people and then Carter got "shellacked" like 0bama is going to.

bfitz-

No one is "playing the race card".

The Republicans and their Tea Party children are trumpeting it with bells and whistles.

Someone on that side of the aisle comes out regularly with a new name for the

"exotic" person now living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

They cannot get over it! They are still trying to figure out how it happened.

Oops! You forgot Shelia Jackson Lee's speech on the house floor three weeks ago!

Ignorance appears to be standard issue with the GOP/TPers. There is no other explanation.

Here's talking points for you...right off the pages of the NeW York Times; that Icon of 21st century Progressive thought. Seems they don't much care for obama either:

Like most Americans, at this point, I have no idea what Barack Obama — and by extension the party he leads — believes on virtually any issue. The president tells us he prefers a “balanced” approach to deficit reduction, one that weds “revenue enhancements” (a weak way of describing popular taxes on the rich and big corporations that are evading them) with “entitlement cuts” (an equally poor choice of words that implies that people who’ve worked their whole lives are looking for handouts). But the law he just signed includes only the cuts. This pattern of presenting inconsistent positions with no apparent recognition of their incoherence is another hallmark of this president’s storytelling. He announces in a speech on energy and climate change that we need to expand offshore oil drilling and coal production — two methods of obtaining fuels that contribute to the extreme weather Americans are now seeing. He supports a health care law that will use Medicaid to insure about 15 million more Americans and then endorses a budget plan that, through cuts to state budgets, will most likely decimate Medicaid and other essential programs for children, senior citizens and people who are vulnerable by virtue of disabilities or an economy that is getting weaker by the day. He gives a major speech on immigration reform after deporting around 800,000 immigrants in two years, a pace faster than nearly any other period in American history.

THE real conundrum is why the president seems so compelled to take both sides of every issue, encouraging voters to project whatever they want on him, and hoping they won’t realize which hand is holding the rabbit. That a large section of the country views him as a socialist while many in his own party are concluding that he does not share their values speaks volumes — but not the volumes his advisers are selling: that if you make both the right and left mad, you must be doing something right.

As a practicing psychologist with more than 25 years of experience, I will resist the temptation to diagnose at a distance, but as a scientist and strategic consultant I will venture some hypotheses.

The most charitable explanation is that he and his advisers have succumbed to a view of electoral success to which many Democrats succumb — that “centrist” voters like “centrist” politicians. Unfortunately, reality is more complicated. Centrist voters prefer honest politicians who help them solve their problems. A second possibility is that he is simply not up to the task by virtue of his lack of experience and a character defect that might not have been so debilitating at some other time in history. Those of us who were bewitched by his eloquence on the campaign trail chose to ignore some disquieting aspects of his biography: that he had accomplished very little before he ran for president, having never run a business or a state; that he had a singularly unremarkable career as a law professor, publishing nothing in 12 years at the University of Chicago other than an autobiography; and that, before joining the United States Senate, he had voted "present" (instead of "yea" or "nay") 130 times, sometimes dodging difficult issues.

A somewhat less charitable explanation is that we are a nation that is being held hostage not just by an extremist Republican Party but also by a president who either does not know what he believes or is willing to take whatever position he thinks will lead to his re-election. Perhaps those of us who were so enthralled with the magnificent story he told in “Dreams From My Father” appended a chapter at the end that wasn’t there — the chapter in which he resolves his identity and comes to know who he is and what he believes in.

Have to agree with bfitz. Obama is way over his head. Looking more and more like the first Bush. No more than 4. My voting for Obama wasn't so much that I cared for him, but because my first choice Hillary was no longer available. And while I had no issue with John McCain, I thought his choice of Sarah Palin was an irreconcilable mistake. So I think it is now safe to say "It's once again the economy, stupid!" This time around I'll roll the dice with an ex-Governor and successful businessman. I'm not very enthusiastic about it though, but rah-rah go Mitt.

Sure, I'll explain it...

"Please explain to me how the richer ones are "job creators", it looks like they are the hoarders of today, they are not going to spend in bad times. duh."

It takes a business to create a job. It takes money to create a business. Those who have the money can create the businesses that create the jobs. But you're not far off the mark here - they're not creating nearly enough, especially in uncertain times.

"Please explain to me how the concepts of the "me party" are good for everybody."

They're not, and we're all slowly coming to realize that, even if that realization comes too late.

"Please explain to me how people can spend millions to see an ape movie while millions are suffering all over the world."

Because, as terrible as that suffering might be, it really isn't our problem. We can't afford to take care of ourselves, we sure as hades cannot afford to take care of the rest of the world.

Think back to when you were a kid, and you were sick. Mom (or Dad, or whatever parental-unit you had) took care of you. But who took care of them when they were sick? Right now our nation is sick, and we just can't take care of the "kids" right now until we're better. Spending some money to see a film puts some economic motion into the cesspool our economy has been engineered into - keeping the gears turning.

"Please explain to me how we can balance anything in such a polarized world. Why can't we all win."

We can't balance anything, because the "scales" are broken.

We can't all win, because if no one loses, there are no victories. Just like without evil there is no good.