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Subscribe to RSSPros and cons of Obama bringing Congress back… Tonight’s referendum on Big Labor (and Scott Walker) in Wisconsin… Dems need to gain a net three state Senate seats to win back control of the chamber after Walker’s anti-collective-bargaining law… Polls in Wisconsin close at 9:00 pm ET… Team Obama to take a page out of the Bush ’04 playbook on Romney?... Saturday’s split screen: Most Republicans will be in Iowa for the Ames Straw Poll, while Rick Perry will be in South Carolina and New Hampshire… Longtime Lamar Alexander aide Tom Ingram joins the Huntsman campaign… How Bachmann has become the anti-Palin… Romney’s Drudge connection… And most of the 2012 candidates are in Iowa today.
*** Does Obama bring Congress back? We heard the message from Terry McAuliffe yesterday, former New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine today, and we know there are other friends of the administration giving similar advice: President Obama needs to bring Congress back from its August vacation to deal with jobs and debt. On the one hand, the White House doesn’t want to look like it’s panicking (a la John McCain’s call to suspend his campaign after Lehman’s crash in the fall of ‘08). And Team Obama’s first instinct is to always under-react; in fact, you saw that in his speech yesterday afternoon. On the other hand, the Obama White House needs to look like it’s in charge of the situation, even if world markets are reacting more to the debt crisis in Europe rather than the political situation in Washington.
*** Or does it tune out the Washington chatter? The Obama White House’s pattern in the past has been to tune out the Washington chatter and then react to it on its own timetable. Perhaps they'll be proven right in the long run, but it looks riskier today than it has before when they've chosen caution over a high-profile political/policy gamble. By the way, was any thought given to the president deciding against showing up at the two DNC events last night? Again, we know they don't want to be trapped by events and the campaign must go on (it's not as if Republicans decided to stop fundraising yesterday). But with the White House appearing unsure of what to say or do next, it's not going to read well in the history books that on the day the market fell over 600 points, an hour after the closing bell, the president headed to a DNC donor-maintenance event.
*** Tonight’s referendum on Big Labor: These have hardly been glory years for organized labor, even the first two-plus years of the Obama administration. Right out of the gate in ’09, they lost the political battle over card check. In the past few months, they’ve largely lost the P.R. battle over the National Labor Relations Board’s complaint that Boeing illegally moved a plant from union Washington State to non-union South Carolina. And at the beginning of this year -- starting first in Wisconsin -- conservative governors and state legislatures punched Big Labor in the face, passing laws curbing collective-bargaining rights. Today, we find out if labor can punch back, as Wisconsin holds six recall elections against GOP state senators who voted for Gov. Scott Walker’s (R) anti-collective-bargaining law. Yes, the recalls are a referendum on Walker. They’re also a referendum on whether Democrats have regained some political juice in the Midwest. But make no mistake: No one has more to win or lose tonight than organized labor.
*** Total Recall: Badger State Showdown: If Democrats gain a net THREE state Senate seats, they will take back control of that chamber. As mentioned above, six GOP state senators who voted for Walker’s anti-collective-bargaining law -- Robert Cowles, Alberta Darling, Sheila Harsdorf, Luther Olsen, Randy Hopper, and Dan Kapanke -- are receiving challenges from Democrats today. Dems feel good about two of the GOP seats (Hopper’s and Kapanke’s), while two others are toss-ups (Darling’s and Olsen’s). But given the likely low turnout, no one knows how the races will play out. “We don’t have a precedent for this,” Dem pollster Mark Mellman, who’s doing the polling for the Wisconsin Democratic Party, told Greg Sargent last week. “The nature of the turnout is so uncertain that it really will make a huge difference. We’re dealing with big uncertainties.” And the recall story doesn’t end today: If Dems win three or more races today, then they must defend two Democratic state senators facing recalls next week. Polls close in Wisconsin at 9:00 pm ET.
*** This is a fascinating stat: Via the Recall Elections blog, “Since 1908 (when Oregon became the first state to adopt the recall for state level officials), there have been 20 state legislative recall elections in the entire country. In this term, Wisconsin will have nine recalls in a little over a month.”
NBC's Chuck Todd and J.R. Ross of WisPolitics break it down the Wisconsin recall vote.
*** Taking a page out of the Bush ’04 playbook: Turning to the 2012 race, don’t miss Politico’s look at the Obama playbook against Mitt Romney if he becomes the GOP nominee. “In a move that will make some Democrats shudder, Obama’s high command has even studied President Bush’s 2004 takedown of Sen. John F. Kerry... The onslaught would have two aspects. The first is personal: Obama’s re-elect will portray the public Romney as inauthentic, unprincipled and, in a word used repeatedly by Obama’s advisers in about a dozen interviews, 'weird.'... The second aspect of the campaign to define Romney is his record as CEO of Bain Capital, a venture capital firm which was responsible for both creating and eliminating jobs. Obama officials intend to frame Romney as the very picture of greed in the great recession – a sort of political Gordon Gekko.”
*** Saturday’s split screen: But what if Romney isn’t the nominee? Indeed, the biggest 2012 news yesterday was the reporting that Rick Perry will make his presidential intentions clear on Saturday at the RedState conference in South Carolina (he’ll also be in New Hampshire that day). As a result, Iowa -- with its Ames Straw Poll -- will no longer be the center of the political universe on Saturday. And Perry’s likely entry diminishes the importance of second place in Ames. Bachmann, for instance, can’t afford to look weak in Iowa with Perry about to get in. Ditto Pawlenty, who needs to look like the real deal in the Hawkeye State.
*** Tom Ingram joins the Huntsman campaign: Team Huntsman is announcing that Tom Ingram -- a longtime aide to Lamar Alexander -- is formally joining the campaign as a senior adviser. (Ingram, who has also worked for Bob Corker, Bill Haslam, and Fred Thompson, had been informally advising the campaign until this elevation.) This is pretty big news for the Huntsman camp: Ingram is a manager, and he’s been brought in to fix campaigns before. His bottom-line reputation: He's the type of guy who brings order and does so without making himself the story. Clearly, a response to the news last week that John Weaver had lost some confidence with some important campaign supporters.
*** How Bachmann has become the anti-Palin: To us, the biggest news from the controversial Newsweek cover of Michele Bachmann is how she has stayed clear of the controversy and moved on. When a man asked her about the cover yesterday, Bachmann dismissed it, per NBC's Matt Loffman. "Power behind our campaign is hope and a future. That's all I believe in. I told you that I'm an Iowan and I was born here," she said. Despite all the earlier Palin-Bachmann comparisons, Bachmann has become the anti-Palin in this campaign: While Palin would have gone to war with Newsweek over the photo and headline, Bachmann just brushes it off her shoulder.
*** Romney’s Drudge connection: Speaking of Bachmann, we did enjoy this line from Ryan Lizza’s New Yorker profile of her: “Why would Drudge, an ardent conservative, publicize that gaffe [of Bachmann confusing John Wayne and John Wayne Gacy]? O’Donnell thought he knew the answer. ‘Matt Rhoades and Drudge are best friends,’ he said, speaking of Mitt Romney’s campaign manager. Bachmann concurred. ‘You never see anything about Romney on Drudge—ever,’ she said.” True or not, Rhoades’ ties to Drudge have become accepted legend in presidential politics…
*** On the 2012 trail: The campaigning is all in Iowa: Bachmann, Cain, Paul, Pawlenty, and Santorum are in the Hawkeye State.
*** Tuesday’s “Daily Rundown” line-up: CNBC’s Andrew Ross Sorkin & Becky Quick on the market turmoil… WisPolitics.com’s J.R. Ross on today’s Wisconsin recall votes… Iowa GOP Straw Poll look-ahead with the AP’s Liz Sidoti, Comcast’s Robert Traynham and former Clinton White House Press Secretary Dee Dee Myers… NBC News campaign reporter Carrie Dann in Austin with the latest on Gov. Rick Perry’s plans… Americans Elect’s Eliot Ackerman on their push for another presidential ticket option for 2012… Rothenberg Report’s Nate Gonzales on finding political lessons in children’s books.
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 4 days
Countdown to Wisconsin recall general for Dem senators: 7 days
Countdown to NV-2 and NY-9 special elections: 35 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 91 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 181 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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Let's not forget that Wisconsin's recall election does matter to the rest of America.
A Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican
Re-post from the past:
(Written by John Gray)
Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.
All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; his bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.
Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.
Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.
Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad's; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification (those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)
He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.
He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good (and doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day). Joe agrees "We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have".
We can only hope that Barry has learned his lesson from yesterday and keeps his mouth shut today. When he began to speak at 2:00 the Dow was down 400 points. After digesting the nothing-burger he was serving up to the markets with his same old, same old, raise taxes, continue the payroll tax cut, and extend unemployment that he’s been peddling all along, the markets tanked even worse ending up down well over 600 points.
You’re doin’ a heck of a job, Barry. Now just shut your pie hole and stop making things worse.
From Politico:
If Obama’s announcement was intended to soothe panicky markets, it failed spectacularly. Before he spoke, the Dow Jones Industrial Average was trading down about 400 points, 3.5 percent of its value. By the end of the day it had tanked, finishing with a 633-point loss that represented about 6 percent of its value, the worst single-day performance since the depths of the fiscal crisis.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60888.html#ixzz1UXKalPUX
It was only last Tuesday the tea baggers were bragging with impunity about the stunning victory they accomplished.
Remember these little ‘jewels’?
Rick-3416939
There are plenty more where those came from but, I think you get the idea.
Fast forward a week later, and our credit downgrade for the first time in history, compliments of their actions, these same people can’t distance themselves fast enough!
The Tea Party Downgrade belongs to them alright!
U.S. Bonds Soar Despite S&P Downgrade | U.S. Treasury bond prices “soared” today, suggesting investors are disregarding S&P’s downgrade and believe U.S. debt is still “among the world’s safest assets.” The stock market tanked, but “Treasuries are still a comparatively low-risk asset,” said Michael Schumacher, a strategist at UBS.
The market dropped about 635 points yesterday as stocks were sold off. Where did the money go? Economists say it went into Treasury Bills (T-Bills) and some into Gold. T-Bills? You mean those things that S&P just downgraded?
This whole fiasco called the Tea Party Downgrade was a deliberate and contrived political exercise by the GOP/TP radical right for one purpose and one purpose only – to destroy the Federal Government as we know it. It is a fact and it was proven yesterday again.
Eric Cantor calls his thugs and tells them that they will be under pressure to change their position because of the S&P downgrade (which they initiated by the way) and to compromise. What did he tell them? He warns them not to do that but to hold the Tea Party line of NO COMPROMISE. Why would you say something like that unless this whole mess was a contrived plan from the beginning and you got what you wanted?
Boehner says they got 98% of what they wanted – did he also know about the pending S&P downgrade and used it against this Country? Come on, he knew this fiasco ran that risk and many in his party are on record claiming they wanted us to go into default. Well it got the same results without the actual default. People this was planned by the right. With them it is politics as usual and they really do not care what carnage or damage they cause along the way. It will be decades before we get that rating back if at all. It takes on average 8-15 years to recover that AAA. Thank you GOP/TP for making the life of my kids and their kids a lot tougher moving on.
They knew this ideology ran the risk of the downgrade. S&P and others warned them – they did it anyway why? Because they want the Country to fail. They want high unemployment. They want a stalled economy. They look at this as their way into the White House. Just look at rhetoric from the right calling President Obama a failure, weak on leadership, the only President who had a credit rating downgrade during his watch. What they are not telling the American People is that this was a planned and executed attack that was deliberate and with malice against all Americans and totally manufactured by the GOP/TP purely for “Political Gain”.
The Headlines should read:
THE 112TH CONGRES GOES DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE MOST UNPRODUCTIVE AND INEFFECTIVE EVER AND THE FIRST CONGRESSS TO DRIVE THIS COUNTRY INTO A CREDIT RATING DOWNGRADE
This sums it up. President Obama did not cause the Credit Rating to be downgraded. This was a planned political scam by the GOP/TP radical right to destroy this country as we know it. McConnell said that their goal was to make President Obama fail, Boehner vows no compromise, and GOP/TP elected officials renounce their oath to this country in favor of a doctrine by Norquist.
Tell me again republicans how American you are – in my opinion not very American at all. You are all “AINOS” –
“Americans in Name Only”
Its just gets funnier every new day with Obama and the "media". Bring back Congress, bring them back for what? If Obama brings back Congress, he better have a comprehensive plan that he wants to implement, and he better know how to pay for it. But come on now, Obama have a plan? No less a detailed plan? No less a plan he'd stand behind and defend? Com'on. Obama? Lets be real here, alright?
Recall election day in Wisconsin:
I read that big money is being spent on the Wisconsin recall election: Groups like Club for Growth, ALEC-American Legislative Exchange Council, and American for Prosperity (David and Charles Koch money) have been very active.
I also hear that polls report that 4 of the 6 contests could be close. In light of the Tea Party conservatives trying to buy this election, I believe the progressive Democrats will win five of the 6 seats.
Anna Molly, Do you have a prediction?
Joe,
Please show some respect for the office of the President. The title should be Mr. Obama, President Obama, Barack Obama, or Mr. President.
I LOVE this piece, Job1.
Thank you so much for reposting it, and for doing it today. I'm too nervous to post anything of my own today. Too much at stake and way too much in my heart.
Bless you and Navy and Ron and Feisty and everyone who has been supportive, and be sure to cross your fingers, toes, and anything else you can find.
@ Ron ~ No predictions here. The polling in two of the districts is too close to call, for exactly the reason you mention. The last thing anyone wants to do now is to be over confident and give people the impression they don't need to vote.
Nothing here but pins and needles.
*CIVIC DUTY ALERT*
WI Voters GET OUT & VOTE!
We're counting on you to correct the mistake!
@Job1 - Perfect post for today! Thanks!
It's known that facts are rare things in the minds of the Libbies, but do recall that the bond market did just fine yesterday. And it's the bond markett hat took a ratings downgrade from the S&P, not the stock market.
It's clear you Lefties want in all your big little hearts and small little brains to blame the GOP and the Tea Party for all the failures of your stupid president, but facts are facts, and the bond market is doing just fine.
Feisty:
How soon they forget. Is it me or is this site slow today.
Today is the day in Wisconsin and it may tell us what the future looks like.
It was good to see that a lot of people funnelled their money from the market to T-Bills instead of holding cash in the bank. THat tells me either people still believe in the T-Bills or the S&P has not taken hold there yet.
Time will tell. Waiting for the market to open and see how bad it will be today.
FR: Does Obama bring Congress back? Do lunatic anarchists tea bagger freshmen always take the President's advice?
I saw the Prsident give a compelling specs why we need jobs
The President needs to bring Congress back now. To wait until September to begin the process of negotiating debt reduction is absurd. A Super Committee needs to be selected and have recommendations for the Congress by November. The specifics of the $1 trillion debt ceiling reduction need to be defined. Fitch and Moody’s are waiting in wings to drop our long-term debt rating. They told us so with their negative outlook. Yet, with no sense of urgency, Congress has 5 weeks off and a we’ll get to it at the very last minute attitude.
Where’s the pivot to jobs? Unemployment is 9.1% but if you count the people whose benefits have run out and have given up, the real number is almost double that. Minority unemployment is over 15%. As far as I know, there is no pending legislation to address ways to stimulate the economy which will create jobs or straight jobs legislation.
And Congress won’t be back until after Labor Day. Is there any wonder in anyone’s mind why S&P downgraded the political dysfunctionality of the US.
Well done Job 1.
Anna Molly: We are all rooting for you.
Please bring the Congress back and get them front and center to explain to the 80% of Americans who want revenue increases, the reason they refuse go for such a measure.
I would haul their sorry asses back in a heartbeat!
A 5 weeks vacation comes across as European & sounds a whole lot like that nasty socialism the righties love to scream about!
American's typically earn 5 weeks after 20 years on the same job!
@Navy - that's the problem, they can't keep their stories straight! ;0)
JAS 1
"the failures of your stupid president"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You shouldn't be calling President Bush stupid.
Please show some respect for the office of the President. The title should be Mr. Obama, President Obama, Barack Obama, or Mr. President.
__________________________________________________
Get back to me after all the FR lefty liberals that called George Bush "W" and "Shrub" and his adminstration "the Bushies" have apologized for their lack of respect for the office of the President.
Ron:
I have seen that this election(s) in Wisconsin has spent about $30 Million Dollars most from outside the state (Koch, Rove etc). The next largest election was about one fifth of that.
Thank you SCOTUS for your "Citizens United" Decision and for corrupting our political process and special thanks to the GOP/TP for ratifying it.
No...let Mr. "I'm Happy"...Mr. "We Got 98% Of What We Wanted"..."The World's Most Misguided Tangerine" (thank you, Jon Stewart)...The Speaker of the House, John Boehner, determine when and if Congress comes back early from its recess.
It strikes me that this whole blame-it-on-the-Tea Party argument that's taken root at First Read has a fatal flaw...
At some point, don't you have to explain how a small, colorful group of protesters wrested the national narrative and the bully pulpit away from the President of the United States?
And...
Exactly how and why he could have allowed it to happen?
Because I fail to see how such an argument benefits President Obama in the least.
Anna Molly, Hope you have a high voter turnout today in those recall elections. Here in MN we do know from experience that every vote counts.
Know that some Minnesotans were in WI yesterday to help with the get out the vote and do phone calling.
Bless you and Navy and Ron and Feisty and everyone who has been supportive, and be sure to cross your fingers, toes, and anything else you can find.
_____________________________________________________
AM: maybe you can clarify something for me: Isn't the WI Assembly solidly Republican by about 20 votes? And if so, what difference will it make if the recall elections hand the Senate back to the Dems by 1 or 2 votes since nothing they pass will get through the Assembly or be signed by Walker?
I warned you that the three-day-out speech would be lame. So will next week's, as it will be a regurgitation on yesterday's. We need to wait three weeks- that's when he will, finally, have something useful to say. Obama redefines a "day late and a dollar short".
Some people were slightly discomfited by his appearance at two big dollar fundraisers last night, after the crash in the market. Were these same people paying attention to his whooping it up at the White House last week, on the same day the market crashed? In fact, with a one day exception, the markets gave back every gain this year, but that did not stop the parties.
Priorities folks, priorities.
It is for these reasons that many of my liberal friends are wishing for a primary, although they know it will not happen. I am struck by their disappointment with Obama, which is coupled with their continued belief that the policies that have failed could work with some other democrat.
I had a long conversation with one such friend last night. I pointed out that these policies themselves had been proven failures- that it had little to do with Obama, other than his insistence that he could make them work.
He was uncomfortable for a few minutes, then said "look, I'm a liberal. I WANT them to work".
Well, there are a lot of things that people want to work, but learn cannot. Often, those failures have long term impacts, as well.
Ponzi schemes are one such example. The alchemists plans to turn lead into gold. Cold fusion.
Keynesian economics.
I pointed out that belief in a failed system was less an intellectual exercise, and more an emotional one- that insistence that something that had failed over and over was simply stubborn refusal to see reality. He agreed, and reminded me that he had been discomfited by Obama's rise- that he, himself, had always considered himself too ideological to be involved in politics, as it took someone far more pragmatic to cope with failure and change course. Something, he said, he knew Obama was incapable of doing.
He won't be voting republican- that would be too far a stretch.
He just won't be voting, for the first time since he has been eligible. I expect there are many who feel the same way.
Thank you so much, Northstar. It seems Wisconsin and Minnesota will always stand shoulder-to-shoulder, no matter what happens.
I see the Senate banking committee is planning on investigating Standard and Poor's. Now I'm not into conspiracy theories, but one has to wonder who specifically made the decision to downgrade the country's credit rating and what was his (or her) political beliefs. One has to wonder if he (or she) is a certified Tea Party member. I read that Tea Party groups all across the country were cheering when they heard of the downgrade. Perhaps that's why it is called the Tea Party downgrade.
Because Obama is a pushover and a wuss.
Mixed Bag..
There's plenty of blame and blood to go around, but to ask how it benefits Obama at all is disingenuous.
When Standard & Poor’s offered a defense of its decision, it called the bitter stand-off between President Obama and Congress over raising the debt ceiling a “debacle,” and warning that further downgrades may lay ahead. That was their tipping point.
It doesn't benefit Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the Tea Party or the American people.
You're placing blame on one person and you know that argument has, at least in S&P's logic, been asked and answered.
Bev:
I agree, President Obama should ASK for them to come off vacation and get their butts back to work and fix this mess before it goes into total meltdown. If they refuse then America has their answer about the GOP/TP and where their priorities lie and it is not with the American People.
They are the cause of the Credit Rating downgrade that we will now have to live for for many many years and then theyskip town for a month. Not a few days but for a MONTH.
I hope all these arrogant un-American jerks get tossed out into the street come 2012.
We need jobs not more "Hostage" taking of the economy.
Perry is going to run my all indications and that will make this a Rummy/Perry race. Good by Bachmann - could not happen to a better person.
Man, this site is slow today.
@MB -- you forgot to add that they are also described as uneducated, redneck racists, religious right fundamentalists. If that's the case, it just shows how weak the failed prez and his leftist cohorts are.
@Ira - As Harry Truman said "The buck stops here" as you know meaning the presidency. It was aptly put yesterday that this failed prez's motto is "The buck stops somewhere else." The person sitting in the highest seat in the land in responsible through his policies and inept leadership.
Me, too, neither. Still, there it is.
@ Ira ~ The "pivot to jobs" occurs at exactly the moment that both sides agree there is nothing more than can be done about the debt crisis or our credit rating.
Diversion is an excellent policy strategy.
See what I mean?
"Joannasmith-1 declares:
Its just gets funnier every new day with Obama and the "media". Bring back Congress, bring them back for what? If Obama brings back Congress, he better have a comprehensive plan that he wants to implement, and he better know how to pay for it. But come on now, Obama have a plan? No less a detailed plan? No less a plan he'd stand behind and defend? Com'on. Obama? Lets be real here, alright?"
======================================================================
Dearest Joanna just to bring you up to speed on how U.S. government is supposed to function, the President does not write legislation (the plan), Congress is required to do that sweetheart, the President reviews the plan Congress presents him and either signs it into law or he can veto it. Are you keeping up here Joanna? The president can request Congress come back to D.C. and come up with a plan for him to evaluate but he does not present them with a plan to evaluate.
JoAnna --
We all need to demand our Congress get back to work. When you have a 80% of all bills being filibustered they are not doing their job. You would better serve your party and the nation by demanding they DO SOMETHING. Stop the obsession with the President and ask how you can help your country. You do your party no favor here.
Ben-636050..
Nice cliche Ben and it may have been true in 1948 when Truman said it.
Leadership and the willingness to of Congress to work with the President have changed a lot since 1948. Ask S&P...it called the bitter stand-off between President Obama and Congress over raising the debt ceiling a “debacle". That was the tipping point. A large portion, perhaps a majority of the American electorate, saw a Congress unwilling to compromise and then the GOP turn on itself. You cannot lead in chaos. If this was an authoritarian government, you can bet the farm that the outcome would have been different.
Market is up already up 200. Go market.
@ w bush -- You might want to review this before speaking.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/circulars/a11/current_year/s10.pdf
@Ira -- a strong leader does not let it get to chaos. Doesn't let a debacle happen.Truman's remarks are still true today. Obama is weak and inept.
Feisty,
So I said the Tea Party has definitely effected the political conversation .......
What do you talk about incessantly.
Yesterday you regurgitated the liberal talking point ..... Tea Party Downgrade (and I see Navy has it in bold in the next post) ......
Really?
No other president in history has suffered a down grade...... yet we have gone through almost a century of world wars, Korean and Vietnam wars, cold wars, ......... great depressions, 11 recessions ......... Hitler, Tojo, half dozen Russians, etc have tried to bring us down .........
But you are saying a little handful of tea partiers did more damage in 8 months than all the above in almost a century ........ they made Obama the first president to be downgraded?
Obama has complete, almost absolute control for 24 months, he has the presidency, the House, the Senate, the main stream media and now in the 32nd month - 1/7th of 1/3 of the government sinks everything - in only 8 months?
By your own statement, doesn't that indicate how stunningly weak and inept Obama is?
He can't handle a few little grass rooters that say balance the budget?
Your arguments, excuses and blame, your detachment from reality is as pathetic and weak as Obama's.
Boehner bill to cut, crap and unbalance the federal spending
Although it got no where, I find it incredulous the fringe hostage taking, malcontented, disaffected, bellyaching devolved , hobbits are so intransigence and corrupt that they are completely out of touch with reality. These hobbits held America hostage with no thought for the country or its citizens.
Their latest hot topic is so deluded
When will you blame Bush? Tax cuts "had already been shown to be inert
Liberal talking points for the day:
"Terrorists", "Teailban", "Hostage Takers", "Pivot to jobs", "We Got 98% Of What We Wanted", "Revenue increases", "Tax the rich", "Fair share", "Balanced approach", "Tea Party Downgrade", and the old standby "It's Bush's fault".
Notice "tax the oil companies" and "corporate jet owners are to blame" have started to lag a little.
And, as always, they're just talking points. Meaningless.
Do any of you honestly think Obama is going to give up Martha's Vineyard to work on cutting the deficit?
If so, when was the last time that unicorn in your backyard granted you a wish?
Ron:
I heard the same thing. One site brought up why did S&P also downgrade Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - which they should have downgraded years ago - now right after the feedback from the White House on their own incompitence with a $2 Trillion Dollar math error.
I think these guys need to be called into Congress (again) and this time answer some very hard questions.
I don't think that the president should reconvene Congress at this time. I believe it would be seen as a knee-jerk reaction to an acute crisis. It would also appear that the president was being led by popular opinion and early morning talk show pundits.
The prudent thing to do would be to enhance his "grand deal ", create a nationwide infacture and jobs program, then build consensus by selling his ideas to the nation.
@Navy -- why downgraded years ago? Didn't Franks and Dodd say they were sound and stable???? LOL!!!! And who is going to ask the questions??? Are they going to hold hearings on themselves??? LMAO.
Ira-
Sorry, friend...but, you're making my argument for me by re-stating the obvious.
Of course the whole blame-it-on-the-Tea Party argument doesn't benefit President Obama.
That was the point.
Why would any supporter of President Obama somehow argue that he's been stymied, marginalized, and shoved to the sidelines by a small group of protesters with colorful signs and attire?
The blame-it-on-the-Tea-Party narrative raises them to President Obama's level...or brings him down to theirs.
That's the fatal flaw I spoke of, Ira.
It's an astonishingly bad argument for the President's supporters to employ.
Yet, it would appear to be the preferred one at First Read.
Maybe Congress should work on patent reform, a high runner talking point in Obama's speeches. Once that's complete, this country will be unstoppable.
Silver ---
Agreed on the infrastructure and jobs programs, despite politics, the prudent thing is to put our Congress back to work. It is not a knee-jerk reaction. For several months they bickered and achieved nothing but a downgrade. I would argue it is called accountability. They should start asking themselves what they can do for our nation.....getting back to work would be a start.
You'll excuse us bag boy -- if we don't 'employ' your advice! lol
The mere fact you & the rest of the baggers are whining tells us all we need to know!
First, let's hope the Prez takes his Left wing cohorts for once DOESN'T listen to them! So we have a spending problem and he just can't get to the point of saying the "E" word, even though it's 60% of the budget (OH excuse me ... that's Continuing Resolution ...) is Entitlements. He had a great opportunity last night and all he did was practice for his next campaign rally. He is SO clueless!
As for the standard Feisty, Navy, Ron, Beverly blah, blah, blah. Give it a rest! You know, you're playbook of talking points is really getting old! You want compromise? Shut up for a day!
When this morass ends it'll be with a fiscal conservative in office and the heros of the day will be the 80% of the population that are center-right fiscally solving the problem. They see that this Left wing agenda IS NOT WORKING! The Left? ... hopefully the once proud Democrat Party will come to their senses and flush the toilet (don't forget to put the lid down!).
Oh ... Just to make you happy Feisty about Wisconsin ... GO Repubs!!! And don't forget that there are Dem recalls coming up in a couple of weeks, too!
When the smoke settles folks, nothing will change until we actually bring to a discussion the Cut, Cap, and Balance Plan from the House and the Senate gets off it's duff and begins work on their side of the 2012 budget. The Dems know that with 60% of the spending locked into entitlements and a brand new one coming on line ... they're screwed unless they can revert to the old politics of ear marks to buy votes (as in Cornhusker kickback!). But then again ... there's no money to buy votes with if you did have ear marks!
Love to talk more but ... 90.9% of us still need to work for a living to pay for your mistakes!
JoAnna --- Take the higher ground....you are doing your party no favors.
Mixed Bag..
Well then Mixed, I misunderstood your post.
If you're saying what I'm saying,,,and I think we are..
Same page again.
I said yesterday, blame the voters who brought these people to Washington.
Blame the American people who embraced the TP narrative.
Blame the President for lack of leadership.
There's lots of blame and pointing fingers does nothing to resolve it.
We're stuck with this Congress and divisionism until the elections 0f 2012.
Nice to see you again...
Then I suggest Harry Reid bring up the House's and Paul Ryan's FY2012 budget. You for that bush? That's legislation. Maybe Reid and Obama can stop whining enough to figure out a 2012 budget for themselves. The 2012 fiscal year starts Nov01, think Obama and the Democrats wil get their act together by then, or will they just let this issue also become a crisis?
Lot of information here for you to take in bush. You understand any of it?
Feisty-
I'm sure you're correct.
I wasn't suggesting that you stop the whole blame-it-on-the-Tea-Party narrative.
Heaven forbid.
It's working so well...I hope you never abandon it.
:-)
I see the Senate banking committee is planning on investigating Standard and Poor's. Now I'm not into conspiracy theories, but one has to wonder who specifically made the decision to downgrade the country's credit rating and what was his (or her) political beliefs. One has to wonder if he (or she) is a certified Tea Party member.
_______________________________________________
Dr. Ron: You do seem to be into a conspiracy theory here. Otherwise you would have waited for the Dem banking committee witch hunt to be completed before stating your suspicions of a S&P Tea Party conspiracy. Maybe "9/11 truther" Paul can provide some input on the S&P Tea Pary conspiracy?? Unless, Darth Cheney's secret black ops army helicopters have snatched him up and taken him to an undisclosed location for interrogation.
LOL!!!
Why blame them? They have a viewpoint, and they have a right to be represented. Asking for a smaller government, and economically sound government, is somehow not permitted? Lord knows we have a majority of people in DC that want a larger and economically bankrupt government. Now a small minority of people in Washington are pushing back against the big government, big spending crowd. Well that's just too bad, now isn't it.
Ron Indiana
I see the Senate banking committee is planning on investigating Standard and Poor's. Now I'm not into conspiracy theories, but one has to wonder who specifically made the decision to downgrade the country's credit rating and what was his (or her) political beliefs.
Neither am I Ron but I wonder.
Ron, I can see rounding off a few pennies but trillions not only suggests incompetence but the timing of when the report was released as well. And it had no signature then. Imagine that an anonymous report. Who the hell are these people that they are so veiled in secrecy they can reveal their names?
Stupidest Political Analysts In History; John Chambers and Londoner David Beers; Tut Tut.
Surprise, Lawrence O’Donnell also noted that United States bonds are still the safest monetary investment out there and called the downgrade a “purely political act taken by these two leaders of the confederacy of dunces [good book!] known as Standard & Poor’s.”
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lawrence-odonnell-eviscerates-sp-for-downgrade-stupidest-political-analysts-in-history/
Enjoy the video tea baggers. That instant message saying Lord help our F***ing scam—this is the stupidest place I have ever worked is off the hook; don’t you think?
When will lunatic anarchists tea baggers blame Bush? tax cuts "had already been shown to be inert.
Boehner bill to cut, crap and unbalance federal spending is the hot topic the lunatic anarchists tea baggers. Oh, the stock market fell because of Obama.
Don't let the MSM delude you. lunatic anarchists tea baggers. People are buying US T bills
Should President Obama call Congress back? There certainly are plenty of opinions about it and here's mine.
What good would it do to call them back now? President Obama can't force them to vote even if they did come back; he can't force them to do what is right because the GOP has not done "country first" yet this year let alone the two previous years. Speaker Boehner's House has passed 14 pieces of legislation that became law--only 14 and not one had a thing to do with jobs creation. The Senate has been dysfunctional for 2 1/2 years caused by filibuster abuse.
These legislators need time to cool their heels, to think about their actions and the consequences of them. If they aren't thinking about and rethinking their actions then they do not deserve to serve the people and they should be tossed on the unemployment line in 2012. An ear full of wrath at their town halls this month will likely do more than calling them back into session. The Tea Party will never understand the harm they caused the country because ideology trumps brains but Congress isn't a majority of TP members. The fact that Tea Party supporters cheered the S&P downgrade says all one needs to know about the Tea Party. What good would it do to call these irresponsible conservatives back to Washington?
I am constantly amazed that all the cut and past from the S&P announcement NEVER includes this part
Now, why would what is perhaps the most salient part of the statement be left out?
How on those green earth can ANYONE call for more of the same failed policies to fix this economy?
An "infrastructure bank"? Do you people really think the electorate is that stupid? Extending unemployment benefits? For how long this time?
These policies, which always fail, and are always rife with corruption, fail whoever implements them. Obama should have known that, but refused to see it.
The damage has been done. It needs to be repaired.
Obama shelved in 2012- and we'd better have fiscal conservatives in the House and the Senate, too.
JoAnna --- Many Republicans ran from Ryan's plan.
In the Teapublican's own words:
When youlook at this final agreement that we came to with the White House, I got 98 percent of what I wanted. I'm pretty happy. -- John Boehner
What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.” — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, on the GOP. Don't call them terrorists though. [WP via Political Wire]
Why wouldn't the right wingers be PROUD? lol
And therein lies the problem. 90.9 percent need to work, but only 58.1 percent actually DO work.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/08/news/economy/unemployment_jobs/index.htm?iid=HP_Highlight
Astonished? Good.
Now ask yourself why that is. Here's one perspective:
Be sure to make special note of the dates, and who was in charge in 2007 when "it fell off a cliff."
Want more numbers to reinforce that point? Try this:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2009/jan/wk2/art02.htm
And now I'M off to my own day job. But I don't delude myself that I'm the only one who wants to work.
Now ask John Boehner about those jobs he promised us.
With the markets up this morning, watch out the tea people will go belligerent. They can't stand good news on the economy.
BTW: it's already started just read the first few post from JAS1, no joe, Ben, Mixed bag, Joe Albany, they've got their hate going this morning. And the better the market gets the nastier they'll get. Sit back and enjoy, it's fun to watch their heads explode in anger.
Dont_carry_it_all
JoAnna --- Many Republicans ran from Ryan's plan.
=======================
The vote in the House was 235-193 with four GOP members voting against it. Please explain how "four" is "many".
Why should the president being calling Congress back? If our Congressional Representatives and Senators were serious about our country and our needs (ours--as in we elected them), they would be doing their duty and running over one another to get back to work. But do we see this? Why would it take and order from the president to get them back to work?
I remember watching footage of the 9/11 Pentagon crash, and people were fleeing the burning and damaged building. But then, someone in the crowd said, "People are trapped in there." To a person, everyone who was running away, turned and ran back to help. True courage was shown that day by the men and women of the Pentagon. Hey--Congress--people are suffering and are in danger here in the United States, too. Our whole way of living is on the verge of collapse. Let's see who comes running back.
It's called the SENATE JoAnna. The reps put their finger in the air and decided they wanted to keep their seats.
Ben-636050
@Ira -- a strong leader does not let it get to chaos. Doesn't let a debacle happen.Truman's remarks are still true today. Obama is weak and inept.
Ben..have you heard of the separation of powers. It's in the Constitution. Congress is the legislative branch and the President does not control it. In fact, if it disagrees with the President, it can over ride a Presidential veto.
He can say whatever he wants, lay out an agenda but it's Congresses job to legislate those ideas into law. He can influence, twist arms and take his case to the American people. He can't overturn the balance of power in the House.
So Ben, please tell me how he does that and how he prevents the debt ceiling debacle from happening when Boehner couldn't even do it in his own party.
Again Ben, nice cliches. Please explain it all to me.
Interesting the whole ideal of blaming the tea party for what they did Is a bad argument for the president. This con is almost as good as the one that the debt is nobodies fault so just trust the republicans.
So we should just stop pointing out that their is a group of republican tea people determined to make America fail, and we should just ignor what they did and start blaming President Obama like faux.
The truth is that a group of anti-american congress people can do a lot of harm when using our country as a hostage. The republican tea people are for holding our country hostage to protect the rich and stated they will do it again.
Spanky sezs Don't tell anyone this is a bad storyline for our president. We all know Spanky is so concerned about our president.
Ira-
When it comes to national leadership, and responsibility for demonstrating it, I think I'll start with President Obama.
The Tea Party is pretty far down my own list in both of those areas, actually.
Our own Mark Murray offered up an essay yesterday which highlighted the limitations of the office of the Presidency, and paraphrased the view of presidential scholar Richard Neustadt:
"...the White House is actually a weak office..."
Mr. Murray (inadvertantly, I'm sure) validated the argument that it certainly can be.
The rest of the cowards ran away AFTER the vote, when they realized how it was received. Even John Boehner said, when questioned, that it was "only one idea."
A bill duly passed by the House is "only one idea"?
If you call this leadership, then LoL
Just how many more "ideas" does Boehner plan to pass before they get one they like?
Mixed Bag..
Saw Mark Murray's post.
Sort of made both our points, didn't he?
Someone else made the point that Obama has not been able to define himself. The mixed messages and inability to explain his policies to the American people. That's going to be his problem on 2012. People still do not know who he is.
Hey Ben-636050...did you catch Mr. Murray's post?
Anna Molly
I LOVE this piece, Job1.
Thank you so much for reposting it, and for doing it today. I'm too nervous to post anything of my own today. Too much at stake and way too much in my heart.
Yea, good job Job1. Btw, while you're online I want to thank for welcoming me back.
Anna Molly,
I am just as nervous as you. Your state is very close to Illinois and we have some whacked out lying malcontent, disaffected, bellyaching unevloluded , intransigence. and corrupt baggers like Joe Walsh.
This Joe Walsh is the ultimate fool who loves to spout off his pie-hole about being concerned about his concerned about his kids and grand kids future.
Tea Party Rep. Joe Walsh sued for $100,000 in child support
http://www.suntimes.com/6720892-417/tea-party-rep.-joe-walsh-sued-for-100000-in-child-support
Not bad for a bagger and deadbeat dad. In fact; that is the prerequisite to be a crazy t-bagger.
Need I mention most cheap, lying, hypocritical, deadbeat t- bagger dads sleep in their offices?
Poor AM, you need to face reality, the Ryan budget passed in the House, and by a strong margin. What you're doing is spin, and that's just about the only thing the Left has remaining in their manure spreader.
So where's the Senate's FY2012 budget? Maybe Obama should call the Senate back and have them get to work on it, you know, so it's not done at the last minute, not made into another crisis.
And you AM, you're not talking about "cowards running away" are you? That is too funny!! Think your state Democrats will stick around the next time a tough vote comes up, or will they again be "cowards that run away"?
@ Beverly:
What scares me, Beverly, is that if Democrats lose today, the floodgates will be open for even more of the same corruption, and it will spread like butter on bread.
This only goes to show how little true discernment you have. There's a real difference between cowardice and courage that doesn't have anything to do with the direction you're running so much as it has to do with why.
Mixed Bag - Posting portions of a discussion I had with you and Dangerfield back on July 7th about the Tea Party and how they hijacked the narrative from jobs to spending cuts.
_____________
Throughout this presidency despite the brief honey moon lasting through the presidential inauguration, there has been an attempt to create the "news angle". The election of the first non white president was good for news ratings. However what would be better for news ratings than the reactions both positive and negative from the country.
I often wonder why a crowd of peaceful 300,000 plus individuals marching for immigration reform can be trivialized but a group of eighty to ninety yokels screaming on a corner can be plastered on national news 24/7.
The how the debate was framed is very simple and powerful. Fear. The Tea Party as little as they were and still are, once inflated by the national media, attracted all those pissed off about the big government to their flock. The people in power republican and democrats over reacted by back flipping and contorting to appeal to this very small group radical group.
@DF - So it's your contention that the "tea party" "inflated by the national media" is the tail that wags the dog in the national debate, because their position is "plastered on national news 24/7."
_____
DF sorry to disappoint but yes that is what I believe.
By creating a news angle I mean - After the 2007 - 08 primary and elections the news, mainstream, cable all wanted to keep their viewership. Perhaps they wanted to make up for their perceived lack of coverage/scrutiny of the Bush years and the population's anti Bush views. They would not make that mistake again and would make sure to cover any anti Obama views. The Tea Party was inflated by their design and big money groups rushed in to fund them.
___________
MB - To comment directly to your post on 1.65 yes from my liberal viewpoint the white house has had a very weak and ineffective occupant. However to be fair, It speaks ill of Obama and Reid and Boehner that a minor part of 1/3 of the government was able to force the unreasonable haggling that pushed our default to the brink. S & P quoted the toxic and unyeilding political idealogy in Congress as one of the major reasons for the down grade.
To look at both sides you have TP and GOP who refuse to look at revenues and you have some liberals who refuse to look at any spending cuts. All I wanted in all of this was spending cuts and a little bit of revenue to share the sacrifice. Yet instead we got an agreement that the TP and Speaker got 98% of what they wanted. The result the economy tanks again.
America Held Hostage, day 221
Job 1
An excellent post today. Good Job. I think it was Teddy Roosevelt who fought the meat packers and prepared foods industries and forced them to adopt safer, more sanitary practices. But I could be wrong.
It doesn't matter anyway, TR would be considered a flaming liberal to today's GOP/TP/LDS members.
I'm not sure it would do any good to bring Congress back from their August break. What could they accomplish? Nothing! They are so polarized they can't agree on anything and when they fail to "compromise" (the dirtiest word in the GOP/TP/LDS lexicon these days) and properly attend to their responsibilities MSNBC blames it on the President and keeps score of the number of "retreats" the President was "forced" to make.
What does he gain by bringing those bums back? At least have of them are Traitors and should be prosecuted or removed from office at the very least.
The wheels on the bus goes round and round...and so does the 24-hour news cycle.
We've moved on. We've completely forgotten about the GOP/TP/LDS gloating about holding America hostage. We've forgotten who really caused the market fall. We've forgotten about how Romney's former buddies at Bain Investments tried to pull a dirty trick to fund his Presidential race and instead we're all consumed with Michelle Bachman's picture on the cover of Newsweek instead of those things that really matter.
Lord, what fools these mortals be.
American Held Hostage, day 221
may want to note that both chambers of Congress were under Democratic control during that time period...2007-2009
What scares me, Beverly, is that if Democrats lose today, the floodgates will be open for even more of the same corruption, and it will spread like butter on bread.
____________________________________________________
AM, I'm going to try asking this question again (and there is no way I'm going to call you"Your Divine Goddessness" (post#3.10 below): maybe you can clarify something for me: Isn't the WI Assembly solidly Republican by about 20 votes? And if so, what difference will it make if the recall elections hand the Senate back to the Dems by 1 or 2 votes since nothing they pass will get through the Assembly or be signed by Walker?
The S&P 500 has regained about 25% of yesterday's losses as of now. Please Barry, don't come out and say anything that will screw it up like yesterday.
"And Team Obama’s first instinct is to always under-react; in fact, you saw that in his speech yesterday afternoon."
Translation: "Team Obama" is clueless, you saw it in his speech yesterday afternoon, no leadership whatsoever.
Joe in Albany
Are we even on the same planet? Wow! You saw a great deal more than the rest of us... I guess what I was watching was from the MSM and must have been edited or something.
We tanked. He wasn't going to change it. He had to say something. Nothing he could have said would have satisfied you. Oh well... try as we might...
So exactly what do you attribute today's prevailing calmer thoughts to? Republican optimism?
It's obvious you have your head firmly planted in the deep end of the Democrats manure spreader.
Skip Still using the Rush Limbaugh line "America Held Hostage Day ..." . He began that line after President Clinton was elected. Are you a closet Limbaugh listener?
Did anyone catch Barney on the Maddow show last night ripping one off.
instead of the minions in camp obama trying to seem relevant with another P.R. stunt they shoud travel to oz,locate the wizard.and perhaps a brain could be acquired for the clueless wonder currently residing at 1600 pennsylvania avenue........they've tried everything else with consistent failure being the only constsnt.
there is enough BLAME to go around, to blame one faction is ludicrous. Voting a party line is blind stupidity, LOOK at individual candidate voting records,,, that's what will speak the truth, then got out and really do vote...
To US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired:
Your outstanding posting in #1.3 hit the target dead center of the problem. The Republicans have wanted and planned for this downgrade in order to defeat Obama. Less than 24 hours after the last election, that has been their #1 agenda (as bragged about by them on National TV) vs. the creation of jobs as they campaigned to do. They do not believe in keeping their word to the people; nor could they care less about this Country or the people. As you said they are Americans in name only.
Michelle Bachman, who calls herself a good conservative Christian, believes in defending slavery?!?! The truth finally comes out with the radical Tea Party Republicans. Are the Corporate elite already working toward slavery with low wages, no pensions,working over time without extra pay, no paid sick leave, no right to speak through their representatives or unions, etc. ? Well, the U.S. certainly has all kinds of people. But this lady is one very extremist, radical, demented, arrogant individual, who gives the good Christians a bad reputation. What a shame that some would regress rather than progress for the good of all mankind. They serve themselves (along with their Party) and not the Constituents. Most importantly they have stooped low enough to use religion for spawning their demented philosophies against some of the U.S. citizens, who are already serving in the military to protect those very same ignorant and demented people!!
If it weren't for the Tea Party and the democrats were allowed to continue their ways, the credit rating would have dropped to a B. Nice try calling this "The Tea Party Downgrade" while it is truely the Obama/Reid downgrade.
Face it, if the Tea Party bill with cut, cap and balance would have passed, the US would have retained it's AAA status. It was Obama and the democrats that voted against it.
JoAnnaSmith1
It's clear you Lefties want in all your big little hearts and small little brains to blame the GOP and the Tea Party for all the failures of your stupid president, but facts are facts, and the bond market is doing just fine.
Joanna all i know is that from the time the republicans and tea party took over Congress all we have had is nothing, nothing but a near government shut down, a near collapse of out borrowing powers. the tea party is the reason why we came down to the 11 hour to get a budget deal as well as a raise of the credit ceiling. the tea party congressmen said they wanted the government to shut down, and they wanted the government to default on our bills. there are the ones who are stupid
they did not want any cuts in defense and tax cuts. all they wanted was to screw the very people who made this country, our seniors.
so you think the president is stupid, well Joanna when did you graduate from Harvard or Columbia. i bet you did not make it out of Columbia HS.
the clear signal for the dow was that, forgien markets reacted ot our credit down grade and pulled there money out of the market. if it were me i would have done the same thing. why invest in the market as long as the tea party and republicans with no balls are in charge.
After voting “present” all weekend, President Obama finally came out of hiding and gave a formal statement about America’s first-ever credit downgrade.
Worse than the content of his speech was the timing of it. Obama chose to wait until Monday afternoon (and was 50 minutes late, at that) rather than speaking on Saturday morning. What this tells me is that the President spent his weekend looking for ways to point fingers at everyone other than himself rather than accepting accountability for his own policies and actions.
As might be expected, he took no questions from reporters. And there was nothing new in this speech — certainly nothing that reflected his three-day delay in response. And after his speech was over, the Dow had dropped over 500 points.
Obama just passed the buck yet again, blaming our nation’s downgrade on everyone who disagreed with him, especially Republicans who refused to immediately fold to his demands. He still offered no plan of his own. He still called for more spending (i.e. “investment”). He reiterated his desire to raise taxes further on achievement. And he demagogued those who stand on principle, attempting to shame them into capitulation (while, of course, refusing to capitulate).
And instead of leading his remarks with condolences for the SEALs who lost their lives this weekend, their deaths were treated as an afterthought. He honored their service only after he’d spent nearly 30 minutes scapegoating everyone but himself and lecturing us on why he’s not to blame for America’s downgrade.
"No matter what some agency says, we've always been and will always be a AAA country"
Denial: It ain't just a river in Egypt. ;)
The TEANUTS & their ZOO FANS will be the death of America, wake up.
Anna or fiscal conservative others, I have a question that I honestly am asking without any substantive knowledge of the answer. I did a google search and couldnt find any credible answer or even any real discussion. Please Fiesty, Navy dont respond to this if you are going to regurgitate your talking points and same with any conservatives who dont have any substantive knowledge.
So my question is that it seems to me that lost in the recall debate in Wisconsin is any discussion as to whether any of the dire economic predictions made by the union supporters happen? Have there been huge teacher layoffs? Have there been huge cuts in social services? Has there been adverse economic consequences in Wisconsin as a result of the changes to the collective bargaining rights? On the other side, has there been any evidence that Walker's progrowth strategy by cutting collective bargaining rights worked? Has there been any increase in jobs or decrease in the unemployment rate? Have corporations decided to stay in state versus move to other states as a result? Have new government employees elected out of the union or has that been a non issue?
Please dont provide one off responses where some corporation hired 5 people as a result of or some county laid off one teacher but in the aggregate or in general has their been any economic evidence that supports either sides positions on this issue. That seems to be lost so far in this recall discussion.
lmao..... That was a fun read! As usual the Gimme Gimme gang of 14ish have managed to push all of this to the TeaParty. I grabbed a "semi accountable review" of most of my Independent bloggers and For the most part they do not "Blame" the TP for this, they put the blame on the liberals spending policy of the last 2 1/2 years. Im waiting for the Wisconsin vote today to see who has spent the most amount of money. If the Liberals win......they will have spent enough..... If they dont the Koch brothers will have spent too much money! LMAO! In the last 2 days we have had so much for the liberals to blame on the TP people it makes your head spin. Im wondering at what point people will just get tired of the bitching! The best joke Ive heard in years was last evening. "Whats the difference between a corporate jet owner and AirForce 1' s Owner? When the jets are turned off airforce 1 still continues to Whine!
first he should apoint all the people the republicans are blocking from there post like the head of the consumer agency then he should call them back
Exactly, Joe. And nothing the Assembly passes will ever reach his desk, either.
Although the Senate won't be able to reverse the damage right now, impasse is a victory for our side, and the ALEC-driven Walker juggernaut stops here.
Until Walker himself can be recalled, this is about the best that Democrats can do.
But it's a heck of a lot better than nothing.
Justified Defiance
After voting “present” all weekend, President Obama finally came out of hiding and gave a formal statement about America’s first-ever credit downgrade.
voting present, man you need new material, the first ever creidt down grade was thanks to the tea party and none balls of the republicans.
No Obama should NOT call the congress back! (EVER!)
Those poor, hard working people in our congress are ENTITLED to take a 5 week (paid) vacation after the stellar job they did at ruining our economy! Too bad they are ONLY taking 5 weeks. You don't expect them to destroy the government all at once, do you? Rome didn't fall in a day ya know!
I swear you people act like these congress people work for YOU or something. They are bought and paid for and they don't care what YOU think. They cannot be stopped and they know it! They got theirs, screw you!
I wouldn't be surprised if they come back and give themselves a raise! Why should they care.
They can cut the benefits from our veterans or elderly to pay for it.
Grover won't be happy until he can "flush our government down the drain" (quoting his own words on his website). Looks like he and his 257 minions are succeeding.
GO VOTE!!
Jeff, if the foreign markets would have reacted negatively to our credit down grade, they would have sold their US bonds. The exact opposite occurred, the market took the money out of stocks, and put it into bonds. US bonds. Do you understand the difference between stocks and bonds?
Way, way up the line..someone said that they didn't think the president wanted to be seen as following popular opinion....Uh, when has anyone in Congress or the Executive branch of our govt. given a twit about the opinion of the American people? How many have raised their voices against these no win wars and the foreign aid that is handed out like Halloween candy? That is exactly the problem with both sides of the aisle. No one is listening to the people--and the people are getting hoarse from shouting. "We the people are getting seriously bent about our govt's selective hearing loss. If a politician doesn't want to be seen as caving to popular opinion, how do they want to be seen? It only points out how little touch our govt. has with their constituency. I have dropped my party affiliation officially in favor of being an Independent. Maybe, if others would join me, we might send a message to Congress that they would be willing to listen to--We are tired of your partisan crap and are not going to support either party until you prove that you are support worthy. None are, in my humble opinion.
JoAnnaSmith1
Jeff, if the foreign markets would have reacted negatively to our credit down grade, they would have sold their US bonds. The exact opposite occurred, the market took the money out of stocks, and put it into bonds. US bonds. Do you understand the difference between stocks and bonds?
Yes i do understand the difference.
i must as you why did the forgein markets tank the day before our did, that because they reacted to the credit down grade and sold and took profits, as you see its back up 1/3 from yesterday. today you have people buying stock that dropped yesterday. thank god the market recovered from the 08 drop that took it down to just over 6000 or yesterday would have really been bad.
My only question for you now is why are your Buddy's in the oil business screwing us over by not dropping the price of gas. when the price goes up they automatically raise the price at the pump on crude they bought 3 months ago.
Anna Molly Don't you think Governor Walker should be given a chance to see if his policies work? After all President Obama was given 2 and 1/2 years to see if his would. If you don't think so maybe we should find a way to recall Prsident Obama. Seems fair. since the unions in Wisconsin want more rights then their federal union brothers/sisters is the main issue driving the recall. I think all unions should be the same and since federal law trumps state law then state unions should be under the same contract as federal. Appears to be working for the feds.
Labeling this horrible bi-partisan failure as the "Tea Party Downgrade" is laughable if it weren't so serious. I don't understand how some people conclude this unprecedented downgrade as the fault of less than 20% of elected officials that have been in office less than 8 months. Really?
So what would have happened in the debt ceiling debate if the Tea Party officials weren't elected last November?
Probably a straight debt ceiling increase with NO spending cuts and NO new taxes.
So, if cutting approximately $2.3 Trillion from our trajectory wasn't enough, wouldn't cutting ABSOLUTELY NOTHING also be inadequate for S & P and the downgrade would have still occurred after the ceiling was raised?
Tea Party or not, this downgrade was inevitable with the debt trajectory we are currently on.
I don't understand why the Tea Party and GOP are not claiming triumph . . .
They admit to the public that their goal is to cause "chaos".
They admit that they got 98% of what they wanted.
Chaos takes over the market, and they blame someone else.
The GOP/TP achieved their goal . . . they did EXACTLY what they said. So why aren't they proud? Why aren't you GOP/TP supporters jumping in joy and screaming victory? You did EXACTLY what you said you would do, so be proud of your accomplishment. You caused the chaos you wanted, congratulations.
Do you really expect ANYONE to believe you, when you blame it on Obama? You said this was your goal.
This may be the first time I have ever heard someone achieve their stated goal, and NOT take credit for it.
Sorry Richard but Limbaugh stole/borrowed/plagerized that line from the news media during the Iranian hostage crisis back in 1980. Here locally and nationally (I think CBS) every newscast began with the tolling of bells and the announcement "AMERICAN HELD HOSTAGE DAY...." to make sure the American people didn't forget the embassy staff illegally held hostage by the Iranians.
ME? A Limbaugh listener? There are far better things to listen to on the radio like my local classical music station. Limbaugh is a waste of the peoples precious airwaves and would not even be on the air if THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE were still in force. But thanks to St. Reagan THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE was set aside which opened the door for Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. Unfair and unbalanced and no national standard to provide for equal time for those with opposing (and more rational) views.
The last time I was able to force myself to listen to Rush Limbaugh for more than 30 seconds he was touting some survey (unamed of course) that claimed tourism in Arizona was up and all the hotels in Phoenix were booked solid right after the Arizona legislature passed their controversial new law aimed at illegal aliens.
When I couldn't take it anymore I switched to an NPR station where a reporter was interviewing the head of the Arizona Tourist Bureau who said tourism was down substantially due to the new law and that Phoenix had lost several major conventions because of the legislation.
Huh! Who am I to believe? An unidentified survey touted by a know liar or statistics from the head (named) of the Arizona state agency in charge of tourism (also fully identified) saying the exact opposite? Well, that's pretty much a no-brainer.
And you didn't refute a single thing I said. I guess YOU agree with me that the GOP/TP/LDS members of Congress are traitors and should be prosecuted or at least removed from office.
AMERICAN HELD HOSTAGE (by the GOP/TP/LDS) day 211.
I haven't seen the president take the left wing's advice, I have seen him compromise with the right only to have the goal post moved. Until they get their way and still whine about it. Looks like Astonished compromises like a true right winger ~ just tell the other side to shut up and go away.
We will have to elect a democrat if we want a fiscal conservative in the office, seeing the last 5 republican presidents have been fiscally irresponsible and have increased government while creating record deficits. Of course, if you make up your own facts, you can always come up with reasons why you should vote republican. Just listen to the kochs and vote the way the millionaires want you to.
No other president had to deal with a congress controlled by the no compromising tea party either.
The Refusal by the tea party to compromise turned a budget debate into a debacle and has embarrassed a once great nation!
Looks like Conservatives are starting to wake up to the damage they've done by causing a credit downgrade from S&P. The theme today from the Right is all about how the Tea Party isn't powerful enough to cause a downgrade, therefore it can't be their fault.
Never mind they were planning this well before they even gained a majority in the House.
Never mind that Congressional leaders and Conservatives far and wide BRAGGED ABOUT bringing the government to its knees.
Never mind the extensive evidence that the Tea Party now RUNS the Republican Party.
None of it stops Conservatives from running from responsibility for what they've done.
You have absolutely no proof of this . . . it is all assumption.
In reality, "cutting ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" was never an option. Every single plan included spending cuts. There were even bipartisan plans which included spending cuts, entitlement reform, and revenue reform.
You are simply trying to justify a horrible situation, which you caused, with the incredibly weak defense of "it would have been worse".
Skip My bad. I forgot it was used during the iranian hostage crisis. I was pretty sure you were not a limbaugh listener, neither am I. I do agree with you on his antics, they do not help conservatives.
Skip I do agree with you, in fact most lawmakers on both sides of the aisle should be prosecuted or removed. No argument from me on that issue.
Richard,
I think all unions should be the same and since federal law trumps state law then state unions should be under the same contract as federal. Appears to be working for the feds.
I agree
The only circumstance where public employees should be allowed collective bargaining rights is where the union does not collect any money for politicians and public employees, (and all employees of that union), are forbidden to work on any political campaigns at any time. Otherwise, you don't have "bargaining" at all, what you have are union goons corrupting politicians, which should be a felony. It comes down to this; either you allow public employees all of their political rights and no collective bargaining, or you allow them no political rights and collective bargaining. They can't have it both ways.
Job cutting, cornball Romney is calling Obama disgraceful and despicable? Where was his big mouth when Bush was butchering this nation. That's what galls me about these rediculous Republicans. The hypocrisy is amazing to me. This nation see's them for what they are. Liars.
Jeff, again, no one sold and took profits in the bond market. In fact, the world invested more in the US bond market, the exact opposite of what you appear to claim would happen. The US bond market is sound, safe, and stable.
Ahh, now we're on to oil. How did your Buddy Obama and AG Holders investigation into the oil companies alleged price gouging turn out? Have we had a readout on that investigation? That investigation has been going on for months, AG Holder should have some information for us by now.
Why does the President's popularity continue to fall? Even liberals are beginning to criticize him. Our biggest problem is that we don't have a strong leader in this country. The President could not even consolidate support from his own party. Remember that under his leadership 60 freshmen congressmen who can't even find the restrooms in the building were allowed to control the direction of the debt negotiations.
Bring Congress back? Were they here? Really? I must have missed it.
Richard
Thanks for the civil response and I apologize for the snippy tone. Truthfully, I forgot to take my medications this morning and I'm really not quite myself. That's what happens when you get old. You're chemically kept alive, but then you forget to take your meds.
Take care and have a great day.
Besides shutting the Government down, destroying Obama, destroying the Democratic Party, and destroying our economy, I think the Republican's actions are a continued ploy to raise the interest levels much higher, push up the gas prices, etc., etc. for even more profit greed (during this continued Recession) for their buddies. They'll raise their salaries; but never ours and we don't get month long vacations, either. Someone sent me an e-mail today, whose original author apparently is anonymous. It concerns Congressional Reform. It has some excellent ideas which I like very much. The thoughts are as follows:
Now we need to demand some changes with their actions and get down to work full time.
To thetotas, Richard, etc.
To quote your posting #1.105:
How or why should this be any different from the "Corporate Capitalist", who pay enormous wages to pander Congress for what they want? They should have the privilege; but not the Public Employees. Therefore, it's okay to go after all the "little people". Sounds like a "social classist contradiction" to me. Personally, I think all lobbyists should be abolished, and definitely no pay. If a company wants a request, then let them do it on their own without the huge pay, just as it would be for any of us. Then you can say the same for unions, too. There's an old saying: "What is good for the goose, is good for the gander."
Cali – All forecasting is assumption but you can use common sense. Look at historical debt ceiling raises, the vast majority of raises were straight debt ceiling raises and did not include spending cuts or tax increases. The President and his party (who controls 2/3 of government) publicly stated they wanted a straight debt ceiling increase. So, historical trends show this is what happens and the party in power expresses that as their goal. Why would you assume any different?
These plans were formed AFTER the Tea Party was elected. President Obama and his administration publicly stated they wanted a straight raise in the debt ceiling with no strings attached. If you re-read my statement, I said absolutely nothing would have been changed in our debt trajectory if the Tea Party wasn’t elected. The options you name are all after the Tea Party was elected. The fact is the President, the Democrats and even some Republicans were not interested in enacting spending cuts or tax increases with the debt ceiling raise prior to November 2010.
I caused? WOW!!! Refresh my memory Cali, HOW DID I CAUSE THIS?
Besides, I didn't justify anything, I blamed both parties. I also didn't say that it would have been worse, just that the downgrade was inevitable because as S & P has pointed out, our debt to GDP ratio and debt trajectory is not sustainable. Is there anyone in America who believes our debt is sustainable?
I agree in some measure regarding lobbyists but there are some distinctions you are missing. Having a corporation lobby regarding certain regs or other laws that might impact them is completely different than a union lobbying with the legistator especially local when it comes to police and fire etc who negotiate the pay. Thats a clear conflict. In many corporate legistative issues, a corporation is using a lobbyist to educate the congressional person on its impact positive or negative. For example, there are a ton of regs and laws that have unintended consequences for industries and businesses in which the reg wasnt intended and lobbyists do have a purpose. Lets say an evironmental law or reg is passed that its intended purpose is to protect a certain area of land from deforestation but the way it was drafted it prevented the local mushroom business from harvesting mushrooms from this land effectively putting that company out of business. I see no problem with the mushroom business hiring a lobbyist to make sure the law or reg is fully understood and its impact before being passed or exceptions are lobbied for etc. I agree lobbying for government business and contracts are a bad thing and a different animal.
John B:
Very true. I believe it started with the "Young Guns". Sounds like a bunch of old Western Bank Robbers.
Independent Thinker:
Thank you for the kind words. Great posts today keep them coming.
So Jobs1, Again another article intending to paint fiscal conservatives as people who want to take the last bite of food from a child's mouth while taking the last shoe off their frozen body and making them walk 3 miles uphill both ways for the soup line. So much of this as americans we all want and recognize as positive achievements by liberals, progressives etc and I for one dont discount the positive benefits unions have brought to this country historically. But dont forget,, liberals and progressives brought us low income high rise housing, generational welfare, a trial lawyers' legal system that cries out for tort reform and increases the cost of products, our health care tremendously and performance based executive compensation which has caused executive pay to skyrocket in the name of trying to reduce it so there are good things and bad things historically from both conservatives and liberals and putting out stuff like this that for the most part we all want is trying to incite the passions.
But my question for you is that now that the government has provided all of these benefits in most cases by law or regulation, why do we need unions anymore? If we are already paying for all of these great governmental benefits, why do government workers need to even be in a union?
Independent Thinker, I agree with you, you get no argument from me today anyways. The majority of lobbyists need to go, however there are some that do work for the common good. Those that are in it for their own edification and profit need to go. Or maybe lobbyists need to petition Congress to plead their case, that way no politician profits and they (lobbyist, corporation or union) gets heard by all.
@skip I always try to keep it civil and respectful but like you I am getting on up there and sometimes I forget my meds also, so I understand where you are coming from. You also have a great day.
Unions are the Representatives (the voice) for the working class people just as the politically elite lobbyists are the voice for the big"Corporate Capitalist Elite". If one is restricted or eliminated, than so should all others. It seems that the big lobbyists do more pandering with Congress and harm to all of America than do the Unions for the workers. But, I sure don't hear any Republicans talking limiting the lobbyists for big Corporations. Naturally the Republicans want to keep all the control and power in the hands of the wealthy because supposedly they think they are more productive and successful. But who or what is it that makes them successful just because they were blessed with money or the connection to money? What has made them successful are the daily workers striving to do good hard work inside those businesses. Without those daily workers, the wealthy and big corporations would not be so successful or wealthy. They owe their success to their workers, but do they get a raise in their salaries? No, just longer hours, less pay, no breaks, no health care, no other benefits, and less supplies to work with. And "Yes" Kirk (post #1.87)the WI teachers did have well more than one job cut, larger classrooms, huge cuts in the liberal arts, and far less supplies to work with. The WI Social Services programs took tremendous cut backs and closing of some services. Apparently you think the middle class, poor, elderly (majority not wealthy millionaires as some of your kind so claim) should not have any entitlements that they paid into full. However, you suggested nothing about cut back burdens placed on the wealthy. But then your remarks are nothing more than twisted, manipulative, trite Republican mantra. If they can't have it or pocket it, then they don't want anyone else to benefit from the services. You speak with both eyes and ears closed tightly. We are sick and tired of the right wing B.S. as-well- as the wasteful Government spending, earmarks, unnecessary wars, using all the money from SS to pay for both of Bushs' wars, loss of many valuable lives due to poor political choices, etc. that Republicans created, yet blame the Democrats for everything (or Obama, who wasn't even in the Oval Office when all the problems started back in the Regan years.). Your almighty Party attitude of never doing anything wrong, never apologizing, wanting even more benefits for the elite, etc. are the dirty scum trenches that clog all the drains in America. WE THE WORKING AND UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER ALL THE REPUBLICAN EFFORTS IN THE UPCOMING ELECTIONS.
I have seen that this election(s) in Wisconsin has spent about $30 Million Dollars most from outside the state (Koch, Rove etc). The next largest election was about one fifth of that
Navy Surprise, surprise you failed to mention that the $25 million from out of state is for both dems and republicans. Your post suggests only republicans. $5 million is from the Senate candidate themselves also both dems and republicans. At least be honest.
About $30 million is being spent to influence voters, according to Mike McCabe of the non-partisan Wisconsin Democracy Campaign. McCabe told ABC News that $25 million of that is from outside groups on
both sides of the recall election and the rest is from the Senate candidates.
Obama bring the Congress back right now. Make them vote right now on a Jobs Bill.
Let the constituents of all of the Tea Party supporters see who really wants to put Americans back to work.
Now is the time to be AGGRESSIVE!
Forget about the Debt. It has become a Tar Baby. One the Tea Party wants to keep you stuck too.
Turn the TRUE FOCUS Back to the Platform they all won their seats On JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.
Vote UP or Down on a JOBS BILL Friday!
There is a ton of JOBS in repairing Americas Infrastructure. Roads, Bridges, Sewer and Water Lines, the list continues.
To Kirk (post 1.87):
Do tell, why it is that the people of WI have recalled 6 Republicans and later as a reprisal only 3 Democrats? One of those 3 Democrats recently won with 70% of the favorable vote. That ought to tell all the brainwashed people elsewhere something.
And voters don't just listen to the loudest and longest twisted National Ads for the wealthy candidates, because they are most likely sponsored by the Chamber of Commerce, big businesses, Koch Brothers, Rove, etc. Take a close look at their financial statement, and how they voted in Congress for the different passage of laws.
Thanks Independent thinker for being so gracious respectful and nice in your remarks as I am sure that most employers would love to hire you. Since I asked the question with no editorial, its helpful that made assumptions about me without having a clue. I have not been following the Wisconsin issue at all so I asked a simple question and couldnt find anything on any service or teacher layoffs or anything on the other side that supported economic benefits from Walker's plans either. I would think that there would be some. If you have articles that cite what you say, I am happy to read them.
You make assumptions that unfortunately arent true. My mom, sister and wife are teachers so I completely understand the teacher's union issues. As for business, I grew up with my parents owning a very small franchised business--hallmark store. So I get it. You are trying to make it about class warfare etc. You make it sound as if America doesnt have the freedom and flexibility to make job and education choices. If you want to be as wealthy as a business owner, is there something stopping you from opening up a subway shop, dunkin donuts? Stop being bitter and open your own small business. No one is making a worker stay at a job that he is being treated poorly. No one is forcing them to stop their education? Get that chip off your shoulder and do something about it. Stop blaming the people who are successful and take some personal responsibility and accountability. Its not a republican or democrat issue that is forcing you to stay in a dead end job. No politicians are taking any entitlement that you paid for away from you so stop making things up? If you receive social security you are likely to get at least 3 times or more of what you contributed and no one is going to touch that. Its also not wealth issue either as who do you think backs the democrats? Do you think Soros, Pritzkers, Buffet, Gates are poor? Do you think they back democrats out of the goodness of their hearts? Big money supports both parties and influences results and dont blame me for the excessive spending of the prior republicans because I think the Bush presidency was awful and I am never going to defend him nor the republican or democratic congress. I think all of them have been failures since 2000.
The only one's who care about Wisconsin are their citizens, and unions. The rest of us could care less about what they do. Each state has its own issues, like my state, CA as a for instance. We are overspending as usual, and focusing on high speed rail (a complete joke). It was just announced that although the project hasn't started in any manner yet, the cost is already now projected to be $3-6 billion higher, just for the first leg through the central valley.
No one but politicians and construction workers want this latest debacle, so our governor is now focusing on destroying the electoral college.
Between Obama trumpeting his new more restrictive Truck mileage regulations and Jerry Brown usurping states rights, it looks like the liberals really have the pulse of the nation.
Do you actually read what you write? How exactly does the Governor of California "usurp states rights"?
As far as no one caring about Wisconsin, it's sure gotten a lot of news coverage this year for something no one cares about. I realize the Conservative power elite would like to just slip their draconian policies in quietly without being noticed, but those days are gone.
I am totally against public sector unions, its doesn't make sense to me. How can you justify unions for public sector jobs? Public sector unions, have grown because governments have a monopoly in their jurisdictions. California is a perfect example.
The difference is the private sector can be replaced by a competitor. The public sector has the monopoly, there is no competitor.
John B. – Practical Libertarian is right, our Governor here in CA has most certainly illegally overstepped his authority and power regarding our latest budget. And this isn’t a Democrat vs. Republican squabble, this criticism is from all sides. Many entities are suing the Governor over his disastrous budget plan that illegally takes money away from local communities to pad the state coffers. The Governor also cut entire programs for Seniors, Alzheimer’s patients and mentally disabled people, look up the defunding of Adult Day Services in CA. The Governor’s plan also jeopardizes local bonds for over 400 communities and virtually eliminates all public funding for local infrastructure projects. And yet, Governor Brown did not cut a single dime from the largest portion of his budget, public employee pensions. Of course not, they were his biggest donor.
I’m ashamed my fellow Californians voted him into power. His governorship is the perfect example that if you fail to learn history, you are doomed to repeat it.
First of all, let's settle the question...yes, the President can call a special session of Congress using Articl II, Section 3.
However, while he can force Congress to meet he can't force them to act...and therein lies the problem...this Congress can't get anything done.
Da Noid----by bringing Congress back, the President would at least make them accountable for NOT acting by keeping the spotlight on them. Democrats could introduce bills and then publish reports about what happens to the bills when the Republicans do or do not act on them.
Sorry, Steeler Fan...Boehner wants to complain about "leading from behind". Well, I say, then, by all means, Mr. Speaker, please demonstrate to us what you think leadership looks like. See if he puts down his gin and tonic.
Noid,
More like this Congress WON'T get anything done. Intransigence rules in the 112th.
Just saw on MSNBC that in 2009 - 1,470 Millionaires and Billionaires paid NO Income taxes. Couple that with about one third of the big businesses paying no taxes and Hedge Fund Managers paying only 15% then you wonder why we have a revenue problem and the deficit keeps increasing.
Making these guys pony up would go a long way to increasing revenues and reducing the deficit/debt.
US Navy...maybe they didnt have income? It is my understanding most millionaires and billionaires dont earn income, they get their money off investments, which is taxed at the capital gains tax rates. This is where Warren Buffet is playing with the numbers and tricking the public when he says his secretary payed more income taxes than he did.
Navy and AZ ----
Yes TAX REFORM is needed NOW. That would be prudent, eh?
DaNoid, agree with you on this. While the idea of forcing the spotlight on Congress sounds appealing, the House GOP will never allow democratic legislation to the floor and the Senate GOP minority will simply filibuster. By forcing them back, it will simply add anger to the dysfunction. Personally, they all need time to cool their heels and rethink what governing means. If it was possible, they should be forced to read S&P's explanation every day; it's quite clear who they think is the problem and it isn't democrats who did compromise over and over much to the frustration of their supporters.
Jody - "they should be forced to read S&P's explanation every day; it's quite clear who they think is the problem and it isn't democrats"
Maybe you should try reading it sometime yourself; the problem is Democrats and their unsustainable spending along with their vote-buying "entitlements" which they refused to touch of course.
"However, one of S&P's explicit criticisms of the compromise was that it didn't address the biggest drivers of the nation's debt -- Social Security and Medicare"
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/07/news/international/sp_rating_budget_expert_analysis/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1
Just saw on MSNBC that in 2009 - 1,470 Millionaires and Billionaires paid NO Income taxes. Couple that with about one third of the big businesses paying no taxes
Navy that is interesting, I wonder how many are democrats, the very same ones screaming for tax increases knowing they won't have to pay because of special loopholes and subsidies. How many are republican? same thing. Interesting to know, wouldn't it.
Navy never worries about facts! But I am sure most of those guys do not work! So your reasoning sounds good!
Think of how many wealthy seniors are in the millionaire category who are also receiving the social security entitlements and medicare. I am sure there are a ton of seniors who have a million in the bank and earning 5% off their portfolio in muni bonds or treasuries but make so little taxable income that they pay no tax. Navy, are you now advocating a wealth tax? Explain to me how this millionaire tax system your talking about would work because they have the audacity to work so hard to build up their retirement and now have you advocate that it be taxed away. Explain how that would work? Or are you talking about the working rich that pay 50% in the aggregate of fed, state, payroll and soon to be Obamacare taxes? How much more should they pay?
As for corporations, as you take away their loopholes and make sure they get taxed, are you ok with paying 30% more for products or are you ok with them losing 30% of their stock value in your 401(k) account when they do get taxed and the value of their stock goes down accordingly? It appears that you dont like it when the stock market goes down for a debt downgrade, I would assume you would hate it more when it goes down because the absolute value of the company just went down by the amount of cash tax it is now paying?
ricahrd:
It makes nodifference to me who they are and I never said it did. Everybody pays their fair share or this will never work.
Nice try to pull a repuby - create an issue where there is none.
I argree with ya on that one!
Don't worry navy,
We all have trouble following the logic (and I use the term loosely) of those tea-partiers.
Those Norquist followers have blinders on, so they have trouble thinking on their own, Grover does it for them!
Navy not trying to pull anything or create anything, just a simple question. Can you answer the question or have an idea about how many. I also never insinuated you did.
Everybody pays their fair share or this will never work. Navy does this include the % of people not paying anything or just those with money. For me Everybody means everybody no exceptions. Do You Agree?
KIRK & RICHARD -- Would you agree that Corporations, Hedge funds and small businesses should pay some tax?
You discount our nation and its laws on which all these entities, large and small stand on. It is precisely the reason they were able to succeed. They operate with our protections without accountability. Privatize profit and social loss. Would accountability come from failing when they can no longer socialize the loss and move on their merry way? I would say. However, they still are benefitting from our great nation's foundation and it's not free.
I still don't understand how the right wing wants people with out an income to pay taxes, but they don't seem to mind when the rich don't?
Our politicians no longer serve the American people. They only serve their off shore bank accounts. Wars make them money. They also kill our young people for no reason, but that does not seem to concern our representatives. Foreign aid breaks the back of our economy. But it comes back to our politicians in the form or campaign contributions, so that is also of no concern to Congress or the President. Americans are here for their taxable pleasure and our opinions are best kept to ourselves because that is exactly who we are talking to--ourselves--No one else in Washington is listening. In fact, they aren't even present. Must have Tweeting to do and pictures to take.
Richard
Yes, everyone should pay taxes....but they need a job first! Call your Congress and tell them to get back to work. TAX REFORM would go a long way in creating jobs wouldn't you say? It's called certainty. And for everyone's sake settle the "HEALTHCARE" issue now that everyone at least agrees that there is a problem.
Dont_carry_it_all Absolutely! I also think alot of the loopholes need to be closed. Problem is no politician will do it. The dems cry that the corporations have all these loopholes yet when they had the house and senate they did not move to close any. and vice versa. Neither party wants to chop off the hand that feeds it.
Dont carry it all, not sure what you are asking? I was pointing out to Navy that wealth doesnt necessarily translate into income. 80% of the accumulated wealth in this country is held by people we define as seniors but we act like we cant cut their entitlements but Navy seems to want to punish them for thier success. Millionaires doesnt mean anything without discussing income. Does Navy advocate the taxing of the successful seniors who have saved for retirement or is he talking the working wealthy who do pay a substantial amount of their income in tax. I am not sure what you mean by hedge funds or do you mean their shareholders or investors? Small businesses are owned over 70% by individuals taxed on their individual tax returns so they already pay tax and no I dont think the business itself should be taxed. As for corporations, my point is that taxing them is somewhat disingenous which is why most foreign countries have very low corporate tax rates because the tax is 1)either past on to the consumer of that product or good in terms of higher product costs or 2) if it cant pass it on and remain price competitive, then you are just reducing the value of the company again which is basically a tax on individuals. There is no such thing as a zero sum tax on corporations in which the cost isnt borne somewhere by an individual. So I prefer simpler and fairer tax policy and lets just tax individuals with a progressive no deduction or loophole system and tax capital gains and dividends in the same manner. Hiding the tax within the corporation is just game playing and I would make sure the same tax is collected by the owners, investors or cash receivers.
Byl, I dont remember seeing anyone on here advocate or the right wing advocate people without income paying tax. I think most people want a more fair simpler tax code in which everyone above a certain poverty level pay at least a minimal amount of federal income tax and make it progressive so the higher incomes pay a much bigger percentage without loopholes too. the fact that 47% of taxpayers dont pay any income tax is a problem in of itself no different than the income equality problem.
Has Navy responded yet with his plan on taxing those millionaire seniors living off the muni income for retirement but dont touch their social security and medicare?
Kevin -- Please research Hedge funds and who runs them and something called ESOP, when a S Corp is owned by an ESOP. These are the true tax dodgers. Amongst many! You missed my point there has to be a fee for being a USA multinational. How to exact it is the question. Small business needs to be pried away from S Corp entirely or remove IRC 512(e)(3). WE NEED CLEAN TAXES with lower rates.
I think your argument with Navy is false. Looking at his post he made a general fair statement is all.
correction above *KIRK*
If the wealthy would like to opt-out of receiving any benefits from SS and Medicare they should be able too. Inheritance taxes....is that what you are getting at?
Dont carry it all--S Corps are not dodges but just a flow through ownership vehicle to avoid being taxed twice. They are actually good things. ESOPs in general are also not tax dodges as they are company stock that is owned by the employees and also a good thing but I do agree that they can be used for legal tax avoidance purposes like the chicago tribune acquisition. Hedge funds are managed by people that get carried interests that are taxed as capital gains and its been proposed that should be taxed as compensation because its not real investment income. However the hedge fund itself is no different than a mutual fund in that it invests other peoples money for some stated investment purpose and criteria. As for US multinationals, they are already taxed once in the country of sale and taxed twice if they bring back the net profit to the US under a system that is supposed to tax the income at no more than 35%. The problem is that for most US multinationals if they are going to compete in foreign countries to sell their products like GM cars, the tax rates in the foreign countries are much much lower. If they were taxed at 35% as the US rate, they couldnt sell their product in the foreign country competitively and then all those jobs in the US would disappear as they couldnt manufacture cars to sell in other countries. So to avoid being taxed, these companies keep the cash overseas and cant reinvest it productively or efficiently in the foreign countries but cant bring the cash back and be competitive so it stays in the foreign bank account. Thats why people are proposing this repatriation holiday so companies can bring it back without being taxed and reinvest it here or dividend back to shareholders to spend in the consumer economy.
No Navy was saying that there are 1500 millionaires that dont pay any income tax and I tried to explain that there is a big difference between wealth and income. There are a ton of seniors who have saved up over a $1 million dollars in wealth but live off the interest or dividend income coming from these investments. At todays rates, a senior could be making $50,000 of muni income and paying no tax. Navy is always going after this stupid talking point of millionaires and billionaires when most of them are seniors and getting social security and medicare which he doesnt want to touch. I would prefer he be more specific with his proposals or issues with successful people and how he would like them to be taxed and receive entitlements.
Wrong on just how many use the ESOP's and the IRC 512(e)(s), in fact you might be shocked but I doubt it. Hedge fund managers operate without fair taxation how about we up the rate then?? Sorry go back to research. Your double taxation argument is lost as you yourself said the tax is built into the product and overseas this would apply as well. About "repatriating" well we could demand it come back at a rate much higher than 5%, agree? How about you stand for your country and let all the Big Boys defend themselves. We need revenue.
Kirk -- Guess what, most people's little pensions are taxed as income. If they are using it for income then maybe they should be taxed as well. Fair right?
Kirk--- Navy has not responded to your question or mine. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he is researching the questions content, yet past experience tells me no answer is forthcoming.
Don't_carry_it_all I say throw out the tax code and create a new one that is reasonable.
Absolutely! Clean, fair, graduated taxes.
No I am familiar with it. I dont know if I am shocked as much as any legal tax gimmick or planning is always going to be a loophole that needs to be addressed. Its just that at the end of the day, if you tax the ESOP, your just taking cash out of the retirement accounts of the employees of the large corporation. What will really happen is that abusive situations will stop rather than taxing ESOPs maybe is my point. I agree that hedge fund managers in most cases should be taxed at ordinary income rates. If we are going to have a separate capital gains rate, I wouldnt apply that to the real estate investment world as that is true capital invested. My double taxation system is not lost, we shouldnt do it as all it does it make us less competitive with foreign companies like BMW or Toyota who arent taxes twice and can then sell their cars cheaper.
Its not all about revenue its about fair simpler tax system that also doesnt impact our ability to increase competitiveness worldwide and reduce job growth. Its a difficult balance. Dont forget under Clinton, are biggest revenue gains came after he reduced the capital gains rate. Its not a zero sum game. Its like the new government insurance mandates for free birth control, wellness care etc for all women regardless of income. That increases the cost of insurance for all employer provided care by alot, do you really think that helps employment? But I am not arguing with you that we dont need revenue. I would eliminate all those green energy credits that allowed GE to pay no US tax as why are we subsidizing a for profit large company in a for profit venture. We can reduce oil and gas subsidies, we can make a fair simpler progressive individual tax system that eliminates all deductions and loopholes and everyone contributes. That will raise revenue too. There are many ways to do it but we need to make sure we do it in a fashion in which we dont shoot ourselves in the foot doing it.
Dont carry it all, not sure what you mean by little pensions are taxed. Are you asking me whether its fair? If its a married couple making less than $50k in taxable income, they are probably not taxed at all or very little depending on the size of their itemized deductions. If your asking me whether the tax code should be progressive, I would say absolutely but I dont think we should be taxed on wealth as how do you determine the thriftiness or frugality of someone to save. Why punish the successful saver over the big consumer? We just need a fairer simpler progressive tax code without deductions at all and loopholes.
If only Harry knew how to get a bill passed in the senate, that would be something. Sadly, his leadership skills are right up there with Barry. Without Nancy having any power, these are two worthless dudes for sure.
Republicans had no problem passing bills in the House, but Harry and Barry said no to everything during the debt debacle. Seems like the problem isn't in the house, it is with the Pres and the Senate.
Yeah, Barry should call them back - so we can watch Harry say no, Obama threaten a veto, and they can both blame Republicans. Can't wait to vote out every liberal - from both parties.
Sure, they have no trouble passing whatever Tea Party dream came over from ALEC yesterday. Passing anything that has a chance at appealing to anyone outside their minority base seems to be more of a challenge.
The public demands compromise from the GOPTP. They aren't interested and will end up paying for it. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/09/cnn-poll-time-to-clean-house-in-congress/?hpt=hp_t2
Kirk--- hey we finally agree on something, tax reform. Here is a little something on the S Corps-- It was posted by a Senior Revenue Agent.
The loop hole (tax avoidance) kicks in when the S Corp is owned by an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan). If the ESOP is the sole owner of the S Corp, all income flows to the ESOP which is exempt from taxation as a qualified retirement plan (IRC 401(a). Exempt entities such as retirement plans and other exempt organizations are supposed to won and operate businesses; if they do, the income is "UBI" (Unrelated Business Income) and the entity (ESOP) has a liability for UBIT (Unrelated Business Income Tax). The Tax Reform Act of 1997 eliminated the UBI and UBIT problem for S Corps owned by ESOP's ONLY. The code section born from the TRA of '97 is IRC 512(e)(3). The effective date of the TRA '97 was 1/1/1998; many of these setups were born that day, some new and others where the company went private (bought back publicly held shares) or bought the shares from the owners and amended an existing ESOP to take advantage of this new IRC section.
The end result is a corporation owned by a retirement plan and neither entity paying any income taxes. Some large multi-national corporations are doing this and practice or setup is growing like a weed. Your congress authored this mess and kept expanding on it. Now they want to enact the possibility for an IRC 1042 tax free sale of the owners' shares t the ESOP. Why? It's simple -- the sale of the shares is not income to the owner if they replace the shares with "like kind" or "similar shares" within 36 months. Several things happen at the conclusion of setting this up. Corporation pays no tax --owner has no reportable income from sale of his shares to the ESOP and therefore no income tax hit here either and in some cases, if done from publicly held corporation (converted to privately held with fewer than 100 owners or just the 1, the ESOP) no more reporting to the SEC either. All other taxes still apply, such as payroll (withholding of federal, state, local, SS and Medicare). Interesting indeed!
My point on the pensions was that a person of little means is taxed. Muni's are tax shelters some would say avoidance . If everyone were fugal business would collapse. Save, yes, but live a little too!
Balance...we don't have it right, yet. Eliminate the oil and gas subsidies and keep innovating!
Take care
"The most powerful man in the world seems strangely powerless, and irresolute, as larger forces bring down the country and his presidency."
Ouch. That's from Dana Milbank's column this morning. Dana is, shall we say, just a tad left of center. Check that, he's so far to the left he makes Paul Krugman seem like the voice of reason. So when folks like him turn on their man, I guess we know without doubt the prez is in big trouble.
Obama has been in over his head from day one. This accidental president won his prize in large part because of widespread disgust with Bush, but now the shoe is on the other foot. Our national disgust is focused squarely on this failed president and his star is fading into oblivion. Which is just where it belongs.
Bill, I think you're misreading the national attitude at the moment. Sure the President is down in the polls but the majority of the ire is pointed towards congress, not the White House. If the President is, as you say, over his head then the members of congress, especially the freshmen Republicans, are on the bottom of the lake as many of them have even less governing experience than Obama did going into the job. Also, while members of congress get to focus on limited and pet issues should they choose to, the President doesn't have that luxury. It would be impossible for anyone to be an expert at being president going into the job and, as has been pointed out ad-nauseum, it's even more difficult to learn on the job when every issue is elevated to a crisis level and the opposition party is determined to erect a culture of failure around every action he attempts to make. The fact that he hasn't gone bug-nuts at this point with the cacophony of negativity around him is a testament to how squarely on his should his head resides. It's disingenuous of people like yourself and those like you in congress to offer nothing helpful (helpful meaning with an understanding that you will have to actually try to reach out to the other side, not just offer ultimatums) and then sit back and smugly point out each and every shortcoming of this administration as it tries to accomplish something without the support of half of the union. Just because you've developed the temerity to win when playing games of chicken does not mean that the decision to play was ever wise.
Do try not to gloat too much, Bill.
As the President's star goes, so goes ours.
It was ever thus.
So true. The President still has a much more favorable rating than the Congress.
Only Grey----great post. The S&P downgrade shows another downside of the constant games of chicken and making everything a crisis while the Democrats keep on doing their jobs.
Good golly AM (or should I say Miss Molly), no gloating here just reporting the facts. The issue is not the direction of the country's star per se, the issue is the direction Obama has taken that star. And the sooner we get better leadership, the sooner we move to a better place.
@Job1 -- That's comforting. He's the top slime ring at the top of the toilet instead of the the bottom ring. Both is a bunch of crap.
Bill, Fairfax: "This accidental president won his prize in large part because of widespread disgust with Bush"
Oh, come on, Bill - "Accidental"? By that reasoning, pretty much every President ever elected would have to be considered an "accidental" President, and the current Congress would have to be considered an "accidental" Congress as well - right? Or is it just the elections that go your way that reflect the true will of the people?
John Tyler, though.....now there was an accidental President!
Congress is the slime in the toilet and we're the ones pissing up the side of the bowl. Who is really to blame for the way things are in this country; those elected to govern or those who elect them?
"Less governing experience" as you put it translates into less experience with (and tolerance for) the business as usual attitude in Washington. Bereft of that kind of experience, the Tea Party held it's ground throughout the debt ceiling debate and agitated for as many cuts as they could get. Without their influence, there would have been no debt ceiling debate -- it would have been business as usual, just keep on keeping on piling on the debt with nary a question as to whether that was the right thing to do.
And "game of chicken?" You may recall Obama insisted on a long term extension of the debt ceiling and threatened to veto anything less than that. If that's not playing "chicken" I don't know what is. At the end of the day, the practical effect of that position is indistinguishable from that of some Tea Party folks who refused to raise the debt ceiling under any circumstances.
Thanks for playing.
"Your Divine Goddessness" will also do nicely. And good morning.
Is it? Funny. From where I sit, the issue seems to be the flat-out refusal of others, from day one, to allow the President to take this country in the direction he wants to.
allow the President to take this country in the direction he wants to.
________________________________________________________________________________________
That says a lot. "Please allow me to lead you"? Leaders LEAD, and when the President had both houses under his control, he had options. He chose HCR. He led us into a fractious (and ongoing) debate that weakened his presidency and lost his majority in the house.
He Had the chance to LEAD on the deficit by taking action when he had a clear majority, and he did not. He had a second bite at the apple when the S/B commission released it's findings, and he failed to educate the electorate as to the "urgency of now" (remember that one?) allowing the opposition to frame the rhetoric and the debate.
Leaders, LEAD and the President failed to lead on the debt/deficit.
Well, taking your attempt to be condescendingly humorous aside, let's address the two key points in your response.
Firstly, attempting to qualify or characterize the lack of experience which you agree the freshmen Republicans have does nothing but underscore that a lack of experience exists. I'm sorry if I don't believe that there is such a thing as a positive lack of experience but I find it difficult to extol the virtues of a group of people solely based on their lack of understanding of how to do their jobs. Still, it does nothing to undercut my assertion that many of these individuals lack even the basic understanding of what governance truly is that the President has.
As far as the Presidents insistence on vetoing anything that didn't include a long term extension; that was a position he held that he obviously dropped in order to achieve some kind of deal. That is the very definition of compromise. The very fact that the President had to step in at all and shepherd congress through the act of doing their job is a testament to their lack of ability to function; much of which is he result of the Republicans drawing lines in the sand and refusing to reach out. Standing on principle is fine as long you are the only one to reap the consequences. However, when you drag others down as the result of your principles, especially when you are in a governing position, you are doing a disservice to both your office and those that elected you. When it comes down to it, it is far more important to do something to benefit the whole then it is to sate ones ego by boasting that you stood on principles.
Job1 - So true. The President still has a much more favorable rating than the Congress.
No disrespect Job1, but Obama will not run against Congress. Other than FDR does anyone know if an incumbent President has won re election during a recession, where the conditions are worse than when he took over? Things look bleak for him and the Dems. politically. In the larger more important picture things look bleak for our country. I shudder to think about what havoc the GOP would do with total control of the three branches. Only reprieve we may have is to hope the GOP only get to 59 votes in the Senate to allow the Dems to filibuster my friend.
If not for a miraculous recovery, which I am hoping for by the way, Obama will lose big time to any serious Republican contender. I doubt the voting public will vote for president on the curve, those who don't follow politics will vote against him based on the state of the economy.
Note - Palin and Bachman are not serious contenders.
Yellowdog - "Things look bleak for him and the Dems"
Shhhhhh. Don't point this out to the Dem sheep, you are just supposed to blame all of their failures on Bush or the Tea party.
Yellowdog,
You are so right! Lucky for us he gets to run against Romney or Perry. So either way, I say it's a win! Bet you can't WAIT to unload Perry onto the National stage and take him away from TEXAS for awhile! My BFF lives north of Dallas and she's actually pretty moderate/conservative and SHE can't wait to be rid of him. Good and interesting times, right?
Hi Clara,
Romney if he gets the nomination will be able to moderate himself back to something resembling a normal branch of conservatism for the general election. Whether his perceived flip flops will be accepted by the voters remain to be seen. For others on the right it will be harder but it could be done. I don't share some of your optimism about 2012.
Regarding Perry, I've stayed a way from the countless stories on here for the last week or so. Not a fan of Perry in any way I've seen his policies in action. Some may point out that he brings it on himself but there is a whole lot of vitroil and hate out there. If he gets to the national stage I really think he would be a hugely divisive figure. That said I would rather he not win the nomination because he actually could win. The right is looking for a new standard bearer in their eyes he could be a Reagan type candidate running against the right's view of the second coming of Jimmy Carter.
I'll amend your last question to be - Interesting and trying times, no?
Obama in 2012.
Well said. Do you think California will go broke first? Or do you predict it will be the Federal government?
Actually I mean default on their debt. Both California and the Federal government are already broke.
Tony C-numbers,
Do you get paid by the post, or by the character? How much did that last post net you?
You mean the numbers in PA?......Check the latest Poll.
Tony C,
Answer the question. How much are you getting paid to post?
Tony, you don't seem to think much of California's economy. You should be excited because the thing that made California's economy so great is being brought to America by the republicans.
The cut, crap and balance has been in effect in California. Everyone has seen how well it works.
The republicans are so smart following in the footsteps of a state with an incredible economy brought about by the cut, crap and balance in California. Isn't it comforting that republicans would only bring us a program proven to work?
Americans -- All states have to have a balanced budget. With slight of hand, however. I would argue it hasn't worked for any state so far though they are still passing the problem from one politician to the next. So I agree.
Bryan E. That is really funny. Really funny you come to that conclusion and think I get paid to post. Really funny. Ridicuious, but funny. You must really follow my posts? I am flattered. I happen to be a very successful, kind of retired, business executive who enjoys this. Believe it or not, I couldn't care less.
Bryan...... 2 pence! Now go find something intelligent to say!
Americans First, wow what a misrepresentation of what has and what is happening in California. Have you ever had any business dealing in California? Have you ever had to deal with the regulations, employee costs and various fees and taxes imposed on business in California? You are sort of right. It is not a matter of what I may think about California's economy, it is the business climate and the desire to be a socialist welfare state that bothers me and what is ruining the economy in California.
No, what I am talking about is the 2/3 votes needed to pass anything to do with the budget and taxes is the problem in California. Its a special law for the rich with 2/3 vote needed to raise taxes on the richest. California is stuck in limbo land without being able to raise taxes and stuck with the cuts only plan. Their prisons are so overcrowded that judges are demanding release of non-violent prisoners as the prisons themselves are cruel and unusual punishment.
Cuts only, no increase revenue just like the tea party just did to America. Pretend all you want, but no one believes you care about the debt with cuts only.
Are you trying to tell me Arnold is a socialist as he has been California's governor until recent? I am sure Arnie has worked hard to keep California as a socialist welfare state.
Asking the rich to pay their fair share is not socialist. Socialist is just the boogeyman word brought out to scare the little children with big propaganda words. I am so scared, are the socialist trying to take my social security too while protecting the rich from taxes? No, you say that is what the republicans are doing, well that settles it, I am more against republicans.
I don't have to add any scare tactic propaganda words as just the words republican tea party is scary enough.
You mean like trying to scare seniors by telling them their SS checks may not go out if the debt ceiling was not raised? So the 51% of American federal tax filers who paid zero federal income tax paid their fair share? Interesting. My real issue is with Obama's approach to what he calls "revenue" which is tax dollars. Yes, the tax code needs reform. Obama's rhetoric on the topic always includes some reference to wealthy Americans that just causes more division. Not necessary to turn one group of Americans against another to obtain tax reform.
You know if the republican would agree to raise taxes nobody would have to talk about it again. If republicans hadn't signed a pledge to never raise taxes with Norquist who has stated he wants to kill America perhaps then we wouldn't need to talk about it anymore.
Republicans are forcing one group against another as they protect the rich tax cuts before America. The more Americans notice, the more it will get brought out.
While the tea party is trying to default our government and cause the checks not to go out and President Obama is asked if he can promise that those check would go out and in honesty he said he could not promise. Look how close we came and had to give the republicans 98% of what they wanted to do that.
But of course in tea land the ones trying to default the government have no blame. It's hard to argue with someone whose opinion outweighs facts.
Raising taxes without some kind of control will result in more spending, not deficit reduction. Obama wants to spend more money. He calls it investment, it is called debt, as it would have to be borrowed. Obama's proposed cuts were really reductions to the growth of spending. The math he used assumes a growth in government spending, for this example lets say that is 6%. Obama agreed to cut the growth by 2% and count the absolute dollar amount based on the 2% less spending as a cut. All of these non existing cuts to take place long after he would be out of office. But, the tax increase would be now! Bottom line Obama wanted more money to spend. There were no cuts in his proposal. That is why you won't find it in writing. The liberal media and Obama do a good job of spin. The Republican do a terrible job of explaining.
Tony
I think you would be surprised at how reforming taxes is an issue most can agree on. To be fair, Cali's state taxes are extremely high. At the moment that is the least of their problems. I tease and say they pay for the sunshine there. If I could afford it I would!!!
Believe me, I am all for it, even if I have to pay more in taxes. But I want the tax dollars to go toward debt reduction. I don't trust anyone in Washington to do that if and when they get their hands on more dollars without a control in place.
If California continues on the path they are on, there will be a financial collapse in the state. Looks like that is what it will take before reality sets in. Tax payers sooner or later say enough is enough.
Tony I think everyone is feeling it. This board is evidence. We all may not agree on everything but I think most of us can find common issues in which we are in agreement. We need action by our Congress NOW.
What we need is a Congress. Not sure what we have today. Too many of them, both parties, go to Washington for a career, time has come for this to stop. Their pay needs to be cut along with their benefits with zero retirement benefits. Then lets see who goes to Washington to serve the people. This "i came to Washington to serve the people" is like fingers on a blackboard every time I hear one of these guys brag about how long they have been there. They are there to be re-elected and will do anything to be re-elected even if it bankrupts the country.
Yesterday John B. responded to one of my posts on First Thoughts, part of which follows:
John B, Des Moines, IA
One poster even continues to pretend we're trying to blame GW Bush for this event. (referring to my post)
No one is blaming Bush. We're blaming the Republican Party and Conservative Movement as a whole.
#1.81 - Mon Aug 8, 2011 11:39 AM EDT
Apparently John B. forgot to cc Barry Obama on his memo because at one of last night’s fundraisers Barry himself blamed Bush:
OOPS!!!!
WASHINGTON | Mon Aug 8, 2011 10:24pm EDT
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Monday he inherited many of the country's problems with high debt and deficits when he entered the White House, sounding a theme likely to dominate his 2012 re-election campaign.
Speaking at a Democratic fundraiser, where families paid $15,000 to get a picture with him, Obama defended his economic record and noted that problems in Europe were affecting the United States.
"We do have a serious problem in terms of debt and deficit, and much of it I inherited," Obama said. The financial crisis, he said, made the problem worse.
Noting that the economy was in freefall on Inauguration Day isn't the same thing as blaming Bush.
It's acknowledging reality.
Conservatives might try living in the reality-based community with the rest of us for once. You might like it.
Sorry John, the plain Enlish translation of ""We do have a serious problem in terms of debt and deficit, and much of it I inherited," is: it's not all my fault, it's mostly Bush's fault.
Spin it however you want, your statement "No one is blaming Bush." is factually WRONG.
LMAO@U!!!!!!
The "Blame Bush" carnival barking by Obama may work in the circus sideshows in front of Obama's adoring crowds, but it's lost it's luster on the main stage. Obama has made many promises on the economy, he's spent and wasted trillions of dollars, and implemented many new regulatory and entitlement policies. They have all failed, and that is the record Obama will have to run on in the next election.
I see we are getting the blame "BUSH" talking points again. That is old and played out.
Obama was not forced to run for POTUS. He wanted the job and he got it. This job comes AS IS. No matter what condition, once you are in; it belongs to YOU.
It really is time the president quits blaming everyone else for the economy. Like Mike Barnacle said on Morning Joe, "Okay we got it, you inherited a mess" Its been almost 3 years and he hasn't done anything to fix it. The stimulus package may have save/created some jobs, but nowhere near enough.
Its time his team came up with a new plan. Thats what the members of cabinet are for, to advise the president on actions that should be taken. This blame game is ridiculous and has to stop. His remarks that he didn't know how bad the economy was are ridiculous, he was a member of the senate when these policies responsible for put in place. It doesn't matter whether he voted for them or not. HE KNEW what the policies were, and for him to say otherwise is a flat out LIE.
It's hilarious watching these tea people trying to defend Cheney/Bush when no one is attacking Cheney/Bush. It shows how really paranoid they are. You tea people need to get a life, you're sounding ridicules.
Now it is time for the republican tea party to claim our economy. You have held our country hostage to get your plans implemented and now you own it.
I think 98% is owning the economy and I expect the republicans to acknowledge the facts.
It was a tea downgrade and the 2012 tea-cession will be directly laid at the republicans feet.
I find it interesting that the tea party wanted the hostage, played the we don't care if the hostage dies, but think none of the consequences have nothing to do with them.
You are a total party-owned sheep..
The downgrade was a result of our debt and the unwillingness of Dems to cut their vote buying "entitlement" programs.
"However, one of S&P's explicit criticisms of the compromise was that it didn't address the biggest drivers of the nation's debt -- Social Security and Medicare"
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/07/news/international/sp_rating_budget_expert_analysis/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1
The debt ceiling debate was a wake-up call to Americans about how far downward this administration has taken the country, much like the downgrade was.
Yes the Republicans and Tea party do own that wake-up call, that is why we elected them and threw Democrats in 2010, as will be done in 2012 and 2014.
Americans First:
Who put a gun to your head and held you hostage?????????
Man, stop with the damn talking points.."Tea Party Downgrade"....we all got it. In your lame attempt to denegrade the Tea Party, you actually helping to lift them up.
Those people were elected to do exactly what they are doing. You didn't vote for any of them, so you are basically speaking to the choir. Everyone of your buddies that share your opinion did not vote for them, therefore your opinions are moot. If you don't like them, put your name on the ballot and run against them. I'm sure you will come out victorious after re-districting......lol
The job may belong now to Obama, but no amount of deflecting in the world is going to have us forget the friggin' sh!t storm that GWB left us in. Nor, the explosive deficit. Nor, the meaningless loss of life. Nor, the erosion of our civil liberties. Nor, the stall in scientific advancement. Nor, the meddling in people's personal lives.
For the party championing "Personal responsibility" you guys sure are quick to give a pass to disasterous policy decisions that were made by your team.
Ted:
Man you need some help because you have issues. This crap started loooong before Bush. Bush just happened to be in office when it got raggedy. Clinton was lucky with the DotCom.
Obama occupies the WH and everything that comes with it. I'm a military man and I would never dream of telling my superiors I can't improve this situation because the guy before me phukkedd it up. If you have to complain about previous administrations then you lack leadership qualities.
You need to move the hell out of Michigan if it makes you that angry......lol......WTF are you going to do when Obama is not re-elected?.......
Mr. Obama didn't "inherit" anything....he actively campaigned for the job and told everyone he had the answers..."hope and change". It appears he meant he hoped it would change....it did....it got worse.
What President has not had to deal with the issues of his predecessor? They all have, so Mr. Obama needs to quit the whining and take responsibility for his watch. Also, way, way above someone commented that the President didn't want to be seen as caving to popular opinion. When did that become a bad thing? The American people have been shouting that they want out of these no win wars and that they want to quit handing out foreign aid like Halloween candy. Has anyone in our govt. heard? Think Americans are getting tired and ticked off because our voices fall on deaf ears? Yeah we are. I just dropped my party affiliation in favor of Independent. I want to send a message to Congress and the President that, if they choose to continue to ignore the American public, "we the people" will drop our constituency. It seems that is pretty much all we can do to show our displeasure over their indefensible behavior--both sides of the aisle. I am hoping that it is something that others are willing to do. They may not care about the middle class, but they sure as hell care about their party. The party is over. Time for the clowns to leave and the dog and pony show to end.
No amount of reliving and rehashing history is going to prevent our economy from crashing, or end these no win wars. Blaming just is an act of futility. Understandable, but still a worthless attempt at excusing the trash govt. that now exists. They have their own agendas and "we the people" are not included. Will it take a "London is burning" action by the people to wake them up? Our politicians have completely lost all respect for the country that has made them wealthy. They have selective hearing loss and can only seem to comprehend foreign languages. Americans need to drop party affiliations in a peaceful protest against corrupt govt.--and we need to do it now.
ITM,
What the hell does me moving out of MI have anything to do with this? I quite like it here, and will stay. Thank you.
How can you say in one breath that "Obama occupies the WH and everything that comes with it." and then in the next breath give GW a pass on everything he did.
from my view in the cheap seats. Bush created the disaster of an economy we are in and the current GOP lawmakers are continuing it, on purpose, to be re-elected.
and, you're right; I need some help. I need the economy to recover so my daughters college investment package is where it's supposed to be, when it's supposed to be there. College is expensive! I need some help with the 20% of people in my city that are jobless. Where's the help with these issues from the GOP?
colorblind: You speak of our positions falling on deaf ears. an overwhelming majority shown in numerous polls have asked for tax increases to pay down the deficits; the repulicans told them to go home and shut up.
Retired marine: it's not just about the situation taht he walked into anymore. Now, it's about the GOP actions that are complicit with keeping the economy in the proverbial ditch until they regain power.
Question to all: Do you think if there was a GOP president right now that the infrastructure bank bill would have died?
I think not! In fact, if the republicans win the presidency, I'll bet that this sails through congress almost instantaneously. it's simply the right thing to do, for many reasons.
More information is coming out on the S&P downgrade.
Standard & Poor is owned by McGraw/Hill. McGraw worked for both Bush administrations. Also, McGraw is working for the elect Romney campaign.
It's very interesting that McGraw's S&P downgraded the US credit rating last Friday, but did not downgrade the US in 2008. In 2008, the S&P expected the US debt to GDP to reach 90% by 2013. Last Friday's S&P report does not even have the US debt to GDP reaching 90% in a decade.
Additional fun, the S&P rates France higher than the US, despite the US debt to GDP being significantly lower than France's 90% debt to GDP.
Additionally, McGraw's company has started lowering the credit ratings of businesses that are pointing out the above facts.
It's time for Romney to fire McGraw and tell America to not believe McGraw's PAC (like Crossroads).
Sure, if that's what Romney really wanted. But my guess is that it's not what Romney wants.
Not to mention they sat on their 'hands' while the Wall Street Ponzi scheme was in full swing!
Currently, the President is off of his game. However, he will rebound. The saving grace is the American people would still elect him over any of these Republican Tea Bagger clowns.
Job1:
So according to you 50% of America is a damn clown because they do not follow your ideology.........
What is this "American people"? You don't speak for me nor 50% of America. Just say "Liberals think like you".
Not 50% of America ITM, just the 15% of you tea people are damn clowns.
IntheMiddle, TX
Job1:
So according to you 50% of America is a damn clown because they do not follow your ideology.........
What is this "American people"? You don't speak for me nor 50% of America. Just say "Liberals think like you".
IntheMiddle,
You can start with your insane remark.
There is a 82% disapproval of Americans disapprove of Congress. The disapproval rating for Congress was the highest in the 34 years the question has been asked in the poll and up from the previous high of 77 per cent set in May 2010.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/approval-rating-for-us-congress-hits-record-low-after-debt-deal/article2120264/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2120264">http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/approval-rating-for-us-congress-hits-record-low-after-debt-deal/article2120264/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2120264http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/approval-rating-for-us-congress-hits-record-low-after-debt-deal/article2120264/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2120264
Only a clown deep in the heart of carnival barkers in a red state would make a statement like that.
You just can't fix stupid when you're a clown.
Well what do you know, the azzwipe named Mo has something to say. Let me take a good one first, may as well use you before you dry up.
We should have known the Hyena from Chicago has something to bark about. You are a waste of time, out of my league and I'm moving on to less smelling things.
How can government entertain the thought of cutting Medicare and social security before ending the pointless military operations in countries overseas that cost hundreds of billions a month, and not collecting tax revenues from corporations and wealthy entities sitting on trillions in cash? Why is there no one in D.C. representing the American Citizen?
represent us? They don't even hear us. They care about two things and two things only: More money in their pockets and getting another term--so they have the opportunity to put more money in their pockets. I may be wrong, because I think they care a lot about vacations as well. Bring them back? Why? Every incumbent lost my vote the day they left on vacation. I re-registered as an Independent. I sincerely hope their audience gets smaller and smaller until they notice that the American people want to be heard. We do not need what is happening in London to happen here. Peaceful protest is the only option--register as an Independent and take away their hustle for votes--and take the bite out of blaming.
Standard & Poor is owned by McGraw/Hill. McGraw worked for both Bush administrations. Also, McGraw is working for the elect Romney campaign.
Also remember this is the same organization who gave Enron and WorldCom AAA ratings just before they went belly up.
Charlie:
Thanks for the information. There has to be a political connection.
Like all the other credit rating agencies. Also Tim Geitner, Alan Greenspan, Corzine, Bernaky, Larry Summers, and all the other wall street type experts. To say this is based solely on politics is ludicrous. But typcially a certain group of democrats can't accept the findings and try to correct the issues, they must find a way to blame the messenger.
It's not a political connection Ron. It's called paying for the AAA ratings. S&P has been bought off for years for their favorable ratings. Just look back at the savings and loan debacle in the 80's. Same thing AAA ratings for the banks making the bad loans.
Charley they also gave fannie and freddie high marks before they went belly up also.
Reliability doesn't appear to be their thing.
OMG.......Please tell me your NOT all jumping on the Mcgraw stacked the book against Mr Obama. Please go that way.....Please Please.....make that assumption! The gimme gimme gang jump on that please!
Congressional Republicans: “In conclusion, the debt ceiling negotiation was so successful we plan to use it as a template for all future negotiations.”
Wall Street: “Guys, we need to talk. We only meant for you to PRETEND to be crazy enough to crash the economy.”
CR: “Pretend? Crazy?”
WS: “Oh @#%$!!”
Who appointed Grover Glenn Norquist Iatola of the U.S. Congress anyway?
you mean ayatollah?
Good Morning to all and
Μια ειδική Καλημέρα στην Anna Molly
Never look a gift Congress in the mouth. What they give today can always be taken away. And if you know Congress, it probably will.
Remember the whole Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) ticket tax fiasco?
Here’s a brief recap: Congress, squabbling over unions and subsidies, failed to pass a budget for the FAA so that the authority to collect ticket taxes was no longer authorized. The Senate left town for the summer, leaving approximately $1.2 billion in revenue on the table and a whole lot of folks out of work. In the meantime, airlines were pocketing the difference between the fares with taxes and without taxes even though Congress wagged a giant finger at them – but did nothing more. With no authority to collect taxes, the IRS released a statement advising that taxpayers who had paid taxes would be entitled to refunds and a couple of airlines (including Delta) agreed that they would work with customers to issue refunds.
At some point, Congress realized that taxpayers were angry. So they did what they’ve done a lot of lately: they engaged in a temporary fix (goodness knows, the sitting Congress can’t do anything long term). After some political maneuvering, the FAA budget was finally approved – through September. Yes, September. Of this year. As in next month.
Plus side, folks are going back to work. Not so plus side, Congress screwed things up for IRS.
As of this morning airlines were back to collecting ticket taxes. But what about tickets that were purchased for use during the shutdown? After originally announcing that taxpayers were entitled to a refund for tickets purchased before the shutdown (July 23) but used during the shutdown, the IRS was forced to backtrack. That temporary fix has made it clear that “passengers who purchased tickets prior to July 23 and traveled between July 23 and the date of enactment of today’s legislation are not entitled to a refund of the airline ticket excise tax.”
So all of those taxpayers – and companies – that were expecting refunds? Not going to happen.
And tickets that were purchased during the shutdown might be subject to the payment of additional tax: I’m not completely sure about this one yet. The IRS went on to say that the agency “intends to provide relief for passengers and airlines with respect to ticket taxes that were not paid or collected because of the lapse.” My guess is that there will be some type of official grace period for those taxpayers not paying the tax during the shutdown but we’ll see. We’ve been promised some future guidance on the matter.
I don’t know about you but if it were IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman, I’d be pulling my hair out about now. Congress’ complete and utter inefficiency has resulted in a number of problems for the agency this year. So far, they’ve been forced to “issue future guidance” over all sorts of things, including a late start to tax season this year because of the last minute tax deal.
This continued inefficiency isn’t merely annoying and confusing for taxpayers. It’s costing our government money.
These folks who keep changing the rules are the same folks who are publicly blasting wasteful spending… Any guesses on how many extra hours the IRS is being forced to put into issuing statements, guidance and rewriting procedures every time something like this happens?
I don’t like making everything tax about politics. But apparently our government officially does.
http://blogs.forbes.com/kellyphillipserb/2011/08/08/irs-congress-now-say-no-to-ticket-tax-refunds/
...and the markets opened up flat..virtually unchanged.
That's a good thing cause the sell-off from yesterday has not continued.
Everyone is looking for the market to rebound today and make up lot's of ground lost yesterday.
The fundamentals of this market are good.
The psyche is schizo.
Market is up over 43...and lets hope.
+197.31
Γεια σας
... and good morning, Ira. Cross your fingers.
Anna Molly
If the market tanks today, the professions who analyze this at this firm will be dumbfounded.
It was panic selling and now the sale begins.
Πάρτε μια βαθιά ανάσα.
Οι άνθρωποι θα αναιρέσετε αυτό που έχουν κάνει.
Αχ .. είμαι ακόμα ενθουσιασμένος.
Bet you a pizza and a coke...
Πώς λέτε πεταλούδες στα ελληνικά?
Diet Coke for me.
But I warn you in advance. I plan to lose the bet. ;-)
Anna Molly
Vytterflies
Still holding at 193.. real good sign...no sell-off and the market is strong enough to hold the opening gains.
If I lose the bet, do I get to pick the pizza?
Anna Molly
If I lose the bet, do I get to pick the pizza?
..and the pizza place, drinks, and dessert. No anchovies is the only caveat.
LoL +231.21
I think we can consider this pretty much a done deal.
Είμαι τÏσο Îτοιμος για ... επιδÏρπιο
No anchovies for me, either.
Anna Molly..
Τώρα που το έκανε, κανένας τρόπος που μπορώ να επικεντρωθεί σε όλα τώρα.
Υπάρχουν επιλογές επιδόρπιο, μπορεί να έχω για να μπορέσετε;
... όχι και όλους τους Έλληνες.
That's 209+.
Anna Molly and Ira Lapin, you're making the tea people angry with your market updates. They're still hoping the market tanks so they can keep saying we won.
Ira your post on the FAA and taxes go above my head. That and your texting with Anna Molly are all 'Greek' to me.
Καλή σας μέρα.
Yellowdog-Mark D
Lol...funny post.
Need to lighten up FR a bit cause people here take this stuff waaaaay to seriously.
It's real hatred between people.
Γρεατ day
Silly αγόρι, υπάρχουν πολλές επιλογές επιδόρπιο
και η βοήθεια είναι πάντα απαραίτητη.
Κουτάλια πάρει τόσο βαριά.
215.96 -- I'm toast. I figure champagne will go with that.
How do you feel about arugula?
Anna Molly..
Isn't argula like rugula and rucola, a salad green.
Hope your talking about it being on the pizza.
Champagne and a great dessert.
Promise.
Up about 180...c'mon market.
Well, it's official...American businesses are no longer waiting for Congress to enact a jobs bill or come up with a sensible debt reduction plan. They are taking their investment dollars into Brazil and other emerging markets. It would appear major investors are doing the same; as reflected by the DOW.
Speaker Boehner, we are "those people" that do vote. Your political campaign might be focused on the 'failure of President Obama'...but we will be focused on who caused and worsened our economy.
No way that Congress will be coming back this month-they are too busy going to their plastic surgeons and doing their "work" there.
Remember that so many of our financial problems-especially entitlement programs- are due to our ineffecient health care system.
Speaker Boehner is busy hosting golf political fundraising events.
I don't understand the posts of someone like JoAnnaSmith1.
Does the President have the power, the authority to just make things happen? Would the Republican controlled House go along with any pieces of an Obama plan?
O.K. , I understand.. you were just being silly.
There was absolutely nothing Obama's speech or any other person would have done to soothe the market yesterday. What ever was boiling in Asia and EU markets has already simmered on every market before Obama made his speech. He did what he could have done.
I would say this again, stock markets are behavioral hence responds to what ever it's fed with. S & P were criminal at degrading the US credit. These fools who couldn't monitor the housing and financial collapse and infact was rating these firms as credit worthy. Criminal in making a $2trillion accounting mistake.
Right under their stuffed nose, they couldn't even passive wall street when they were cooking all kind of false economic model gimmickry and having people investing in funds that were designed to fail.
Congress should come back and lift this artificial cloud surrounding the US economy with a more positive tone and policies. They should remember that corporations will come go but the USA will remain. Their obligation should be to the US citizens and not some barons who have made some legislators to sign a pledge hence tying their hands. If Obama fails, the USA FAILS.
The stock market beating was a good thing to make people understand they are not invincible. It is called a reality check in that the market was already 30% + overvalued. I also think congress should be called back to go to the woodshed for slow and inept half measure actions. They get an F grade.
It is really nauseating to realize that I live in a country full of folks waiting for the Great Pumpkin to appear and judge their punkin' patch as the most sincere.
Watching pundits completely ignore the long standing problems with our current political system and pretend like if President Obama gave a better speech, things would be all better is really quite sobering.
While everyone rushes in to attack the President and paint romantic visions of times gone by and all the dead Presidents that would have done sooooo much better than our current one, NOBODY is stepping forward with a workable plan or solution.
The Constitution says you have to be 35 to run for President. What is sad, is that in this country, we have a bunch of well paid, back stabbing vultures who are only interested in selling their books or boosting their speaking feeds walking around masquerading as journalists and polticians.
The reason that Americans do not have confidence is because the curtain has been lifted, and now it is clear that the Wizard of Oz is little more than Pat Buchanan with a flashlight and a mic.
While Congress kills America, President Obama is burned in effigy . . . and the problems remain unsolved. I would hate to play on a sports team with any of the pundits I am forced to listen to daily . . . we would be lost before we started.
Sad that nobody leads . . . just whine about leadership.
Keep doing what you are doing President Obama . . . some folks know the difference between reality and media spin.
Nashville_fan
Good one there. you got the picture.
Great post, Nash. I wish someone would tell me exactly what the President is supposed to do that he hasn't already tried to do? When will people recognize that the Republicans in Congress, assisted by some blue dog Democrats, have been obstructionist since the President took office. In their zeal to defeat the President they have defeated the country instead.
Good morning Steeler Fan! :o)
You know reading back over my post, I realized that I forgot one point . . . the reason I said that you have to be 35 to run for President is because I am wondering why some of the folks making a living attacking everything don't take all of that genius and actually run for President?
What is stopping all these pundits, bloggers, and yes politicians from stepping forward with a brilliant plan of their own?
They have a camera, a mic, and an audience . . . so what is the hold up? Why doesn't anyone just DO the things that need doing instead of whine about somebody else doing it? Why aren't the Republican presidential candidates being asked to present PLANS?
It is all posturing for the camera and zero substance. Folks pretend like changing who is sitting in the Oval Office is going to turn a turd sandwich into birthday cake . . . it is just beyond ridiculous.
I mean now the solution being presented is to call the Congress back . . . to do what? It is all "optics" and "polls" and completely useless, shallow, bullsh!t.
(Football season can't come soon enough . . . I could use some real games to distact me from the clown posse we have pulling the strings in this country. :o>)
"Keep doing what you are doing President Obama . . . some folks know the difference between reality and media spin."
=====================================================================
Great post Nashville Fan, what troubles me is how many folks do know the difference between reality and Media spin. Do enough people "get it" to make a difference? History would tell us probably not.
Was reviewing the football schedule last night, Nash, and I see a big game ahead---Steelers v. Titans. We'll have to have a wager on that one for sure!
I'm back and forth on recalling Congress. My bottom line is that I think it should be called back into session. I don't expect them to get anything done when they haven't yet but it frosts me that they have a 5 week vacation at taxpayer expense when they haven't worked hard all year.
Okay Steeler Fan . . . we can wager . . . but based on what I saw from my team last year . . . we are going to have to bet something I don't mind losing! ;o)
I mean now the solution being presented is to call the Congress back . . . to do what? It is all "optics" and "polls" and completely useless, shallow, bullsh!t.
Great post Nashville Fan
It must be really a drag for the Fox Noise Echo Chamber to sit around and make up doom and gloom crap and repeat it daily. No wonder the baggers are so crazy . They spin and spin until they get dizzy and crazier which, btw, is a perquisite to be a T-Party member.
Ira, Inefficiency is one of the benefits of always acting in a crisis mode.!! That is the only way Congress works these days.
So True. JoAnnaSmith1 is out of touch at times.
At times?
Job1 is giving credit for when she sleeps. (I assume upside down, in a cave.)
So then if someone disagrees with you they are evil and bad people!
I'm rooting for the Dems. in Wisconsin. A win will be like throwing dirty tea-bags right back in the faces of those anti-American Republicans.
For the next 16 months, the poor will become poorer. The rich will get by. Those with money won't spend as much, which means job creation will be slow at best. Healthcare costs will increase. If you are on Medicare, you may or may not find a doctor willing to see you. Massive uncertainty will continue to be a drag on the economy. Housing values will continue to decline along with the dollar. The national debt will grow and gold prices will increase. We will continue to be involved in wars and conflicts in countries where people hate Americans. Gitmo will remain open. American soldiers will die. The President will campaign and attend many, many fund raisers. The talking heads on MSNBC will praise the President every day and attack Michelle Bachmann and call her crazy and laugh at her. Soon they will being doing the same to Rick Perry. All the while stating that it is disrespectful to make derogatory comments about the President and call out those that do so.
No worries all you Liberals. I have zero expectations of the President. Afterall he inherited all the problems. The President does not need to take responsibility or accept accountability for what happens during his Presidency. World events and other things happen he just can't control. The other party just won't cooperate with him. In fact, blaming his predecessor, Republicans and the Tea Party along with world events is acceptable to his base, supporters and the majority of the media. Why worry about real results?
Romney's campaign is the one who has the owner of the S&P working for it.
Interesting how the S&P botched numbers, released a report, and within minutes of the reports release several Republicans sent out information they could only know if they were working directly with the S&P.
Thank goodness thousands of businesses pointed out issues with the S&P. Based on the markets reaction today, many now understand that the S&P's move was an attempt to elect Romney.
Throwing rocks at the President ain't going to cut much hey either, the "balance the budget on the backs of the poor" strategies presented by the Republicans are not the answer. What happened to all those jobs promised by the repubs before the mid terms. All the repubs have done since getting elected is kiss grover norquests fat ass and protect the wealthy corporate bastards that bankroll them, great bunch of guys.
Those 'poor' rich folks. Merely 'get by'. Man, sucks to have THEIR problems. Oh wait,...
PS. Tony, really, there is a difference between disagreeing with a President and willfully participating in strategies that cause the entire country to FAIL. Perhaps you're aware of that; but choose not to see it? It's not like we can take the Republican "Leaders" at their word when they STATE that their goal is to make him a one timer? Nahhh, must be a failure of the President to DICTATE the agenda and OVERRIDE the minority and just MAKE it so, right? Can you say FASCISM?
That is a bit harsh, the Fascism comment. You know that whatever party is in power, that the other party wants to see a change. The entire country would not have failed. It was and is an excellent talking point. Raising the debt ceiling accomplishes one thing and one thing only, more debt. How much longer do you believe we can continue to have deficit spending and higher and higher debt before we really have a collapse.
To say Repulicans want the country to fail is really unfair and just not true. No more than those that say Obama wants the country to fail. I don't think and I don't think most people think Obama wants the country to fail. I do not believe and others agree, that he has been an effective leader. Agitating the other party encouraging class warfare with all the rhetoric over and over attacking wealth won't improve one poor person's life. Nobody gave me a dime. I paid my way, my parents were poor. I am proud of what I accomplished in life. I don't care for the President approach, all it does is further divide folks.
Clara, if Obama's policies would have worked and the economy was on solid ground, Obama would be taking full credit. Funny thing is, the policies have not worked, and Obama blames world events, "head winds, whatever. Interesting that the left was quick to hold Bush accountable for what happened when he was in office. I agree, any President should be held accountable. The main stream media was right there with blasting Bush for his stupidity. Seems the rules have changed. Sooner or later enough American people will stop accepting excuses. The mayor of Columbus was on TV today. Said something really true. "What is done is done". Obama needs to move on, we don't need the history lesson every day. The last sentence is my words, not the Mayor's. He is an Obama fan.
Come on, Tony, all is fair in Blog and War! And, really, many articles out in the recent couple of weeks saying the economy was MUCH worse than acknowledged at 1-20-09 and that a BIGGER stimulus was actually NEEDED and that met with holy heck. What NEEDS to be done and what CAN get done are entirely different animals.
Sadly, Bush & Co raided the treasury (in the form of unsustainable tax cuts and drunk sailor type spending) and now their supporters don't have the political will to do what is needed to salvage some semblance of sanity/stability to a functioning society.
And in the process of feces throwing and squaking,...they've managed to relitigate the culture wars to further amp up the volume. What we HAVEN'T seen them do is introduce a Jobs Bill. They don't seem to want to SOLVE the problem; but rather entrench us in a 15 month debate about it to 'enhance' their chances of retaking the White House.
If Bush policies had been successful, President Obama never wins the election and we continue in Republican 'bliss'. OBVIOUSLY, that pipe dream isn't reality. Any further pining for Bush & Co is really blather. 2 1/2 years of turning the wheel of a ship set on course for disaster for over EIGHT years is hardly a reasonable expectation,...I mean given that SO many economists have stated that the economy was SO much worse than what had been believed at the time.
PS. How about that 48 hour reaction to the S&P downgrade? Kind of makes you think S&P has a political agenda, no? Working my way through the Italian grape at the Cellar Rat. Yummo. They didn't have those you suggested; but had a couple of viable alternatives. I will have to let you know the name later. Got to get the cherubs to the doctor for Back to School physicals. Talk to you later.
Do you support the 'brinksmanship' that ties the debt ceiling (which had formerly been raised without qualification - umpteen dozen times) to any extorted 'deal'?
I don't. I think that is outrageously immature and quite frankly uneducated. So the comment was directed SPECIFICALLY to that faction of the Republican wing that is willing to take or hold hostage ANY bill for political expediency. If that is what they were sent there to do,...then by ALL means,...support away. But I think they are completely misreading the tea leaves, so to speak. Time will tell. Tonight in Wisconsin should be illuminating.
Congress should be called back. Even if they just sit in the chamber on their thumbs staring at the ceiling checking the occasional tweet.
Or, maybe they could actually do some work for a change.
nothing like getting advice on finance from a community organizer. when can we get a waiver from bam bam and his band of merry redistributionists?
Anyone read the article in the WSJ by Bret Stephens today? Had me literally laughing out loud, like most of these liberal posts on this thread. Indeed.
obviously, the dow is racist
Good luck to WI. Today they will make historic votes. Hopefully they will toss the GNOP/Tees OUT ON THEIR AZZES.
Koch boys, Karl Rove and other big $$$$$.....CAN'T BUY EVERYONE.
Some voters ARE NOT FOR SALE!
;-) Have a great day.
So the Democratic machine didn't spend any money in Wi to influence this election? I didn't know that.
MSDNC/trumpka/soros poured millions to manipulate the elections, not to mention dropping their socialist stormtroopers to intimidate, all being led by special ED, and his rallying call: anyone conservative is a whore!
nothing like living in a free country.
Good Luck Wisconsin....
Ohio is next in November to vrepeal down the Gov. Kasich Union Bushing Plan.......
But the millions that the Koch brothers put in the election with there mailers giving wrong dates and wrong addresses and stuffing the mailboxes full of propaganda is all just fine.
It seems we are not free in the republican mind until we are controlled by the right and all unions, health care, social security, freedom of choice, clean air and water are all gone and then we will finally be free.
Republicans hate American and have been proving it in their every choice. You have to look at their actions because nothing but lies coming out of their mouths.
When the republicans agree, if ever, to raise taxes on the rich we will finally know that America is more important than Norquist and the rich. If you think the rich are more important than American vote Republican because they don't care about America either.
While some of you folks are blaming, they are basking away on paid vacation for a month. Take the bite out of blaming--register as an Independent and vote your conscience. If they can keep us at odds, they don't have to worry about Washington burning as is London. The party system only allows our representatives to buy their positions. We need to stop that. Let's find someone from neither party that might listen to "we the people."
Some voters ARE NOT FOR SALE!
That may be true, but we do know that Senators are, just ask Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mary Landrieux of Louisiana what they got for their vote on Obamacare.
forbes hit it on the head this morning. appearing on squak box he suggested the best thing for the market is if bam bam and congress took a year's vacation.
So right. PLEASE, Mr.President, do NOT bring Congress back ! I am on vacation from N. Pelosi, H. Reid, B. Frank, C. Rangel, M. Waters, D. Wasserman BULL Schultz and the rest of the circus clowns.