I'm looking forward to the WI recall elections next week like a kid anticipating Christmas!

The outcome will be very informative as to the mood of the country...

Something tells me there is plenty of buyers remorse out there without having to even look at the polls.

Many thanks to our gracious host/moderators; Mark, Domenico, Ali & the whole team on interns!

Now, I'm with IR - let's get the Birthday bash for President Obama under way - of course I'm bringing some world famous Chicago style pizza

IR -- DBO is off taking care of his anniversary responsibilities - 26 years & counting...

He lined up the hit list over on the Huntsman thread before he left! ;o)

Forgot to mention, I'm also bringing some of that *popcorn* the President & family hunger for!

The past two weeks of politics has me worn down but I am looking forward to the Big 5-0 celebration at the Dew Drop. Glad to hear the Comeback Inn will be available to our special guests.

I've got some thick, Iowa Chops (pork in case you're wondering) grilled and the best sweet corn in the county with plenty of butter and a bunch of spices to suit just about anyone's taste buds.

You might want to have some real drinks when you gather at your imaginary bar

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Obama just had a birthday fundraiser in Chicago- that's why the debt deal had to get done, because he could not possibly miss his own party- then, another party at the White House, and now will head off to Camp David to continue the celebration.

Next week, a bus tour of the Midwest, which is not looking so good for him. Then, to recuperate from all the partying and campaigning, it's off to Martha's Vineyard, for (another!?!?!) vacation.

Meanwhile, the economy is contracting, the labor force is the lowest its been since 1983, unemployment is really over 12% if you add back in the people BLS has been busy removing from the labor force, and, oh yeah, inflation is skyrocketing.

Welcome back, Carter.

Know what's even more eery than Obama morphing into Carter before our very eyes? The crowing from the left over every GOP candidate. Whoever is covered- that's who they were hoping for! Obama will trounce him/her!

Reminds me of the joy from leftyville when Reagan garnered the nomination.

To be fair, having been burned by Carter, I was all for Reagan- thought he had a vision that would lead the nation putmof the Carter malaise. There were, however, a lot of people unsure of Reagan, and the media was certainly in the tank for Carter. So, Regan's support was somewhat weak- but, compared to Carter, it was astronomical. I remember that my husband was leaving a convention hotel as Carter was arriving on a campaign stop. His Secret Service detail alerted him that a bunch of business types were in the lobby, and he walked out and said to them "I hope y'all remember me on November 4!"

My husband said that, to a person, they responded "Bye, bye, Jimmy!"

I knew then he was toast.

I was reminded of that story when I learned that 2400 people paid to attend Obama's birthday concert/ fundraiser- in a venue that held 4500.

When you only half fill a hall, with Herbie Hancock and Jennofer Hudson headlining?

Toast.

drive-by-observer

In case I don't make it to the Friday wrap-up posts (got an aniversary deal to get going on- 26 years...):

Got a whole passle of tunes to play on the old DDI beat-box tonight for everyone’s enjoyment: First, for Rick Perry- Tanya Tucker sings ‘Lizzie and the Rain Man”. Then, a triple-header for Boehner, Cantor and McConnell’s efforts in the great debt-ceiling fiasco: “Games” by Redeye. “Games People Play”, Joe South, and finally “It’s All in the Game”, Tommy Edwards.

Enjoy.

Damnit!

Will someone call housekeeping & get them over here to sweep the load NJNB just dumped at the front door!

STAT!

Great Job this week. As Feisty said have a great week end, brush off the dust and put some Ben-Gay on the sore areas and see you all Monday.

Now off the the post President's Birthday Party at the DDI. See you guys there.

Some body let me know what NoJo is ranting about now I can't get this tube machine to take her off ignore. On a second thought if it's her usual rant don't bother I'm sure I can fill it in for her better than she could.Dang broad is starved for imagination.

I'm bringing some fresh Sweet Potato Pie, I hear the President is partial to it! Betty and Floyd, let's keep it PG rated this week!

As for the jukebox,...I'm feeling a little Feisty myself - so can I get some Centerfield by John Fogerty and for my Irish friend down in Florida - Some Neil Diamond to celebrate the Red Sox great performance earlier this week - Sweet Caroline!

See you all on the flip side. Q gets published NEXT Friday, so I'll be up to the eyeballs in work until then! two more weeks of summer break for the cherubs. They are starting to get bummed.

Dang broad is starved for imagination

And attention!

Don't bother trying to take NJNB off ignore -- it's the same ravings she's posted for ever!

If you've read one of her I HATE OBAMA rants you've read them all...

Now how about a Jack & Ginger Floyd?

Betty and Floyd, let's keep it PG rated this week!

Awww come on Clara... do we have to? lol

With pleasure Miss Betty. And keep them coming till you hear me holler Uncle.

She cant spell either Feisty. That greeneyed monster gets bigger every week.

I'll be on my way soon for the festivities, have a Low Country Boil ready to be served, along with some of the President's favorite pies, (we'll have to distract Michelle so he can have a little sample). Although I think she will be OK seeing its his birthday. IR you have planned a great time and DBO's list sounds perfect.

Thank you to our hosts, for providing us with some fodder to chew on, and some good friends to jaw with, everyone have a wonderful weekend, stay cool. I'm starting with Bourbon Slush, perfect for a hot evening.

In honor of Governor Hairspray's Prayerapalooza - I'd like to dedicate:

Bon Jovi's 'Living on a Prayer'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDK9QqIzhwk&ob=av2n

PS: Check out the hair! lol

She cant spell either Feisty.

Ain't that the truth!

She can't blame on her i-pad anymore... lol

Feisty, we are all with you on the Wisconsin recall. Regarding posts from the GOP/TP peanut (or cheerio) gallery… A couple of related claims just aren't true.

First, tax incentives have very little impact on whether a business sets-up operations in the US. In Wisconsin, Scott Walker immediately extended tax cuts to companies thinking the increased business would compensate, but the companies did not increase business -- And this was the main reason why deficits grew so quickly after his election. In my town the city was considering a tax incentive for Intel, but wanted to see how things went in Wisconsin first. In the meantime Intel decided to build a new complex without the incentives. In retrospect the city council realized it would have been a waste of tax dollars and were glad they didn't follow Wisconsin's lead.

Corporate taxes are not the big a variable for off-shoring jobs as conservative's claim. The cost of labor, regulations, and just getting away with sh!t (from sexual harassment to who knows what) is why companies off-shore. Conservative's solution is to make the US the same as a third-world country so we can compete, with no labor rights (sweat shops), no safety regulation (think BP oil spill and collapsing mines), etc. NO – that's asinine!

What we need to do is block "imports" from these companies' off-shore enterprises -- You know "Made in America." We do it to companies from other countries, and when US-owned companies headquarter in the Caymans, they are no different. Toyota has manufacturing plants here in order to sell their cars in the largest market in the world. We just need to demand the same of our own companies.

Second, how do you define "rich" and who are the real job creators? Here's an example of why Wisconsin Republicans like Alberta Darling are being recalled:

MILWAUKEE – Speaking at the Milwaukee Newsmakers luncheon, Alberta Darling on Tuesday was unable to name a single job created in the 8th State Senate District as a result of the GOP's radical legislative session.

The line of questioning started when Darling asked a person in the audience how she would solve the debt, and got the answer of asking more from the rich. Darling went on to ask how do you define rich, and the answer was $250,000 and above. After her embarrassing performance, Darling was bewildered at how people don't understand that individuals earning $250,000 aren't rich and are "job creators."

The $250,000 is not arbitrary. It is the cut-off point for the richest 2% in our country. Sure, the cost of living is higher in some places like New York or San Francisco or Silicon Valley. But for most of the nation and the 98% who make less than a quarter million a year, it IS "wealthy." And if the rich want more from their money, then move out of the Hamptons.

Furthermore, the "small business owners" is what needs to be defined. Also, if we allow these business owners to file as individuals and/or self-report their income (not subjected to third-party reporting like W2 workers), then we MUST eliminate tax credits, because this group is responsible for 57% of tax evasion.

The right-wing range from irrational to lacking Rule of Reason, but the biggest problem is they are wrong over and over again but never learn from their mistakes—this is what is inexcusable! I hope voters start by voting Alberta Darling and her fellow Republican idiots in Wisconsin out of office.

Another idiotic thing from conservatives is the constant criticism about the president campaigning or celebrating his birthday or what have you.

Holy cow, in case you people don't know, the president is the Democrat candidate and MUST campaign. Your sorry lot of hopefuls are doing it. Or sure, we get it. The president should stop raising money and all that because...?...because you want him to be a one-term president. Yeah, he should run with one arm tied behind his back to make it more fair, or some illogical reasoning like that? How about this idea, how about you get a platform, and candidates worth a sh!t to go along with it?

As for the 50th birthday, once again, in case you don't know, this is a major milestone birthday for everyone. Yeah, they even have special party favors that go along with that and all! Oh right, but the president should not expect such things like a celebration of his 50th birthday because...?...because you just plain hate him. He should sacrifice every day, in fact he shouldn't even have seasoning on his food. How about this idea, how about you get your undies in a bundle about REAL issues like creating some @#$%& JOBS!

Gawd, Chris Christie, we have all had it with the friggin' crazies!

IR - I have the kayaks on the van right now for the girls to use! I just don't know what kind of food to bring - so I am basically going to mooch off all of you guys. Definitely need a margarita by now!!

Feisty - I can't wait for news from Wisconsin next week too.

TruePatriot,

Just a couple of corrections to your numbers. The top 5% (who pay 59% of all income taxes collected) have average annual earned income of $153,542. The average taxable earnings of the top 1% is $388,800.

According to the Bureau of Labor Stastistics.

Candice -- You mean a couple of additions (the cut offs for the richest 5% and richest 1%). I believe the cut-off for the richest 5% was around $106,000, e.g., the cap for FICA contributions to Social Security, but has gone up, which is not a good sign. In any event, the percentage IS the point. If 95% of the nation has earning less than $153.542, that goes to show that people earning $250,000 (rounded) ARE wealthy.

The top 5% pay 59% of all income taxes collected, because they are the top 5% earners--you pay more on more money, duh. And the other 40% is coming from the masses, the peasants who live hand to mouth -- The poor who pay little or no tax after credits pay little or no tax because they make so little money in the first place, duh.

Look, the No Documentation loan was devised so that wealthy self-employed/business owners who use write-offs to show zero income could still qualify for a loan. These are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers who don't create jobs, by the way. All the celebrities, the professional athletes, Sarah Palin with her book sales, there's a long list of these folks--President Obama has included himself to make the point--who don't create jobs who are defined as "small business." It's right-wing chicken crap!

If we took all the tax credits away (increased the tax base), we could lower tax rates for everyone. Just like I don't understand why conservatives won't support the Made in America plan I proposed above, I don't understand why conservatives won't support an end to tax evasion, especially if it means we can all pay a lower tax rate.

Turn of FOX Noise and Hate Radio, please!

True Patriot

The republicans have a platform:

"Thou shalt not raise taxes on the richest in America"

I meant of course job creators.

I meant of course job creators.

Belly up to the bar GF -- we're buying! :o)

American First, so true and S&P just downgraded our rating from AAA+ to AA+

The earlier reports said the main reasons likely to be cited for a U.S. downgrade by S&P included political confusion surrounding the process of hiking the debt limit and doubt that agreement would be reached on more deficit reductions...

...Moody's assigned a negative outlook for U.S. sovereign debt, meaning it could still downgrade the securities, although probably not anytime soon. Moody's said there would be a risk of downgrade if there is "a weakening in fiscal discipline, a deterioration in the economic outlook or if Congress fails to adopt more deficit-reduction measures in 2013.

According to economists, the translation is: “political confusion” really means Republicans refusal to compromise causing gridlock, and the “weakening in fiscal discipline” really means a lack of revenues to reduce deficits shows lack of seriousness by the GOP/TP to balance the budget, and the “deterioration of the economic outlook” means there are no plans for job creation or economic stimulus because Republicans will block any such measures.

Way to go Scumbaggers, let's hope Moody's doesn't do likewise. You damn idiot Republicans.

Way to go Scumbaggers, let's hope Moody's doesn't do likewise. You damn idiot Republicans.

You gotta be careful with what these nutjobs wish for!

They are rallying against the American PUBLIC!

Anyone else as tired as I am with the praying for America to fail bull@!$%#?

These traitorous bastards are hoping for the demise of America!

TruePatriot.

Additions, yes, is a better word. I think these dollar amount numbers give a better perception of who earns what and who pays how much. The cap for social security withholding has nothing to do with the tax rates President Obama is talking about when he talks about "fair share." I think most people would be okay with raising the cap a little.

If you take the tax credits away (like the child credit, the earned income credit), you'd be imposing taxes on the bottom earners. That's not what you meant is it?

I, who tend to lean a little conservative, agree with your Buy American, Made in the USA idea. Unfortunately, the higher labor costs would price many of the Made in America products out of the range of the poor and lower middle class. People - Democrat and Republicans alike - like Made in the USA products....until they have to pay up for them. If the government, and powers that be, could make the business environment one in which companies can bring their manufacturing back here (without allowing sweat shops), I am all for that.

On your second to last point, I do not support tax evasion. How about we start with collecting the $1 billion in taxes owed by federal government workers?

About the downgrade, the White House is trying to fight it claiming math errors. Hopefully it will be retracted. But if so, it still won't change the reasons given for the downgrade.

The GOP/TP better get their arse in gear in the coming negotiations and get real about a "balanced approach" which means "compromising" and including revenues along with spending cuts. They also better get their arse in gear and start working with Dems to create jobs and to stimulate the economy, which will require investment spending, which can only be done with a balanced approach that includes revenues.

Candice -- Yes, if you take away corporate welfare subsidies for Big Oil, or credits for corporate jet owners, and capital gains loopholes for hedge fund managers, you would also take away the tax credits like the child credit. It is all a form of spending and it is all a form of unfair redistribution of wealth, most of which does nothing to improve the economy.

What folks need to understand is that the $1,000 credit per child will be washed with a $1,000 reduction in their tax rate. Once they realize this simplifies taxes and that they may even end up better off with more in their pockets, they will support it.

In regard to the higher labor costs, I dislike this false choice argument. One reason I boycott Wal-Mart is because they force competition at the supplier level that results in things like child labor overseas, that US companies and their workforce must then compete with, so that the consumer can save all of one penny -- not to mention Wal-Mart likewise treats their own employees like the child labor overseas.

In regions of the nation where there is a living wage instead of a minimum wage, the economy is better because consumers have more discretionary money to spend, and thus things cycle upward for everyone (the demand allows companies to hire more, etc). We can either raise the standardthat will ripple around the world, or we can spiral down to the lowest level until we all live 25 people to a house with no water or electricity. That's the real choice.

Republicans are already coming out saying the downgrade is happening on President Obama's watch -- Code for therefore it's his fault. Cantor is saying how the unemployed really want a job, so that's what we need to work on. Yeah, uh huh and that's going to take how long, and in the meantime you don't want to pay a piddly amount of the budget for extension of insurance benefits?

I'm mad as hell! Even some Republicans like Chirs Christie are so done with the extremists in the GOP/TP. If other people are feeling like me, Republicans will feel the wrath in 2012. Just keep it up Scumbagger arseholes.

TruePatriot said: The GOP/TP better get their arse in gear in the coming negotiations and get real about a "balanced approach" which means "compromising" and including revenues along with spending cuts. They also better get their arse in gear and start working with Dems to create jobs and to stimulate the economy, which will require investment spending, which can only be done with a balanced approach that includes revenues.

I am of the belief that the TP will tame down some of the harshness as time goes on. They had a set goal over the debt ceiling issue in which they didn't waiver. That was done on purpose to make a point. Don't get me wrong, while they appeared unreasonable, looking back, it was the TP that made the largest noise. Most Americans were really upset about what was going on. Both sides of the issue had great concerns... and I also believe those concerns will linger.

TP - I am all for working with the dems as long as what's worked on is realistic, practical and shows no favoritism for anyone involved. Can't stand the chest beaters trying to win points for their personal causes. That's both dems and pubs. What's really needed in this country to set the ball rolling is a large jolt of infrastructure improvements. If I knew that our revenue would go towards that, I'd be 100% on board and wouldn't mind having my taxes increased. There would have to be systematic and well thought out plans so there wouldn't be bridges built to nowhere. This is what I thought the original stimulus was going to be used for... not for the sustaining of some temporary local jobs. Obama bought himself a peck of trouble by ordering up the money and not using it correctly. Ultimately we will bear the cost of that. If not you and me, our children and grandchildren will.

The GOPTP owns 98% of the S & P downgrade and there's proof. First, they said so--they got 98% of what they wanted. Second, they refused to increase revenues. Third, they turned a routine debt ceiling vote into a GOP self-inflicted crisis. This entire debacle was preventable as was lowering the credit rating. S & P's paragraph regarding the dysfunctional politics in DC and lack of revenue increases can be laid at the feet of Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, and McConnell and the Tea Party who felt default was just fine. McConnell declared that the debt debate set the template for future ones--more gridlock and dysfunction guaranteed. McConnell added "it's a hostage worth ransoming." Thanks, GOPTP, first the party created the massive debt hole, then collapsed economy and now succeeded in the unthinkable--one of the three credit rating agencies downgraded the US to AA+. The GOPTP should be so proud--maybe they can get Grover Nordquist to share the blame that will be heaped upon them. His Pledge has caused great harm to our Government and our country.

True - an incumbent has the advantage over the competition since he has a history of what he has accomplished. An incumbent who only uses rhetoric on investing for the future and talking about throwing granny under the bus, etc doesn't show much strength to the public. An incumbent potus who can't even point to obamacare or wall st reform being as advertised has a credibility problem.

Better get used to living with candidate criticisms, it is part and parcel of politics.

Brianb -- one of your more thoughtful posts, nice to see.

The Tea Party consists of ideologues who exist in an echo chamber (with one another) and in a cone of silence to keep out any other information. And since they don't care about consequences, including being booted out in the next election, I don't share your optimism. I'm guessing the S&P is seeing it the same way.

The only way to overcome the Tea Party problem is for other Republicans in congress to call them out, just as McCain and Christie have started to do, as well as conservatives like you. Even you are still excusing them, saying the threat to default was to make a point, as if damaging our rating and economy on purpose is okay if you need to make a point. And they don't just "appear" unreasonable, they ARE crazy, and polls show a large majority of Americans now perceive them as crazy.

There are ways to ensure that revenue is applied to reducing the deficit, though I wouldn't mind seeing the Social Security IOU paid back (instead of cutting it), but by giving funds to the states to do what ever they will is the mistake--this is where I feel you are wrong in blaming the president for the money not being used "correctly."

The stimulus helped states keep teachers, cops, firefighters from being let go, which was helpful not only to the economy but also in providing basic, necessary services. The tax cuts were small but were for the middle class. The infrastructure spending was so small it didn't provide the "jolt" you mention. Infrastructure spending done now will be less than if we "kick it down the road" not only in terms of maintenance versus rebuilding, but in terms of the value of the dollar.

The children and grandchildren argument is silly too (sorry), but look at what our parents and grandparents did for us from infrastructure to NASA, and we can't even buck up for decent education for future generations.

Cantors statement about jobs for the unemployed is drivel if he's referring to another century of "trickle down" tax cuts for the rich (or so-called "job creators"). If he and his ilk don't offer up a real jobs bill, he is talking out of his butt. At least unemployment, or even vouchers, in itself stimulates the economy. And we can't do any of these things without revenue -- at the minimum closing loopholes, which is fairer than just allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for everyone.

Sending the unemployed to soup kitchens, or Medicaid recipients to ER, or refusing to close loopholes so cities have to raise sales taxes, etc. is just shifting what we all already pay out with NO benefit to economic growth.

Excellent points Jody.

american -- Of course President Obama will be criticized, and most of all from his own Party. What is ridiculous is the bashing him for campaigning or celebrating a 50th birthday. It's just beyond the pale what conservatives complain about in regard to the president -- Enough with the petty obsessions.

BTW, do any of you conservatives have a problem with Perry's day of prayer excluding other faiths such as Jews? Do you feel a cross at the World Trade Center site is also exclusive of other faiths? And therefore both are against Separation of Church and State?

Jody - Sometimes I wonder how old you are. Blame, blame, blame.... is that all you ever do without thinking? Your reasoning - The GOP/TP owns 98% of the S&P downgrade... Is this your way of parsing? Do you even know what you are talking about? First of all, it's not the GOP/TP that owns any of it. It's we, the American people that own it all. Not 98%... we own it ALL.

Your version of the dysfunctional government doesn't include the democrats at all. Are you even aware that the democrats are in charge of the Senate? Are you aware that the entire debt ceiling plan was negotiated at least 6 times? Do you know what the word negotiate means? Do you even realize that the word dysfunctional is all inclusive, meaning all and not just the side you are against?

Its like you are on a corner speaking in one direction, forgetting that there are 3 other sides to that corner. Do you realize how seriously inedpt you sound by passing your version of blame to one side when there were more than one side guilty? Tell me you don't live under a rock.

The $4 trillion deal would never work - democrats wouldn't buy into it. Boehner walked out.

As it was, the deal passed without the Tea Party. The original $4 trillion deal wouldn't have passed because the Democrats wouldn't buy into it. Boehner knew this. Raising revenue was off the table, not by the Tea Party, but by the democrats. It was Stenny Hoyer that said raising revenue during an economic down time wouldn't be good for the country. You do know who Stenny Hoyer is, or maybe you don't.

Sheeeeesh... narrowmindedness really is the sign of someone that truly doesn't think through an issue.

The Tea Party consists of ideologues who exist in an echo chamber (with one another) and in a cone of silence to keep out any other information. And since they don't care about consequences, including being booted out in the next election, I don't share your optimism. I'm guessing the S&P is seeing it the same way. I disagree. But, I guess I'm allowed to, aren't I (smile). The republicans hate the tea party as much as you do. Do you know why? For as much as you may disagree, I have been to tea party functions. They know the republicans dislike them. The reason the establishment parties hate them is because they are serious. The only way they can get elected is by utilizing the republican name for now. Our 2 party system won't allow it any other way. It's not the republicans that are using them.... they are using the republicans... only the republicans haven't quite figured it out yet. I've heard your explanations that the republicans use them only to put them down when they aren't needed. The republicans really don't want anything to do with them, so you are only partially correct. To back my statement up... how many third party candidates ever go much further than local elections? There are many different types of political parties in this country. It's rare that any one of them get elected to national politics. Remember Ross Perot? The tea party is a grassroots concept that hasn't nationalized yet. They won't either until they gain enough strength to challenge both the republicans and the democrats on a national level. This may take 3-4 election cycles. They aren't ready and they are definitely not going away anytime soon. You'd better get used to them.

The only way to overcome the Tea Party problem is for other Republicans in congress to call them out, just as McCain and Christie have started to do, as well as conservatives like you. Even you are still excusing them, saying the threat to default was to make a point, as if damaging our rating and economy on purpose is okay if you need to make a point. And they don't just "appear" unreasonable, they ARE crazy, and polls show a large majority of Americans now perceive them as crazy. That depends on who you speak with. If you are a member of either the democrat party, or the republican party, they are crazy... on many levels. Mind you, I maintain my idependent status so therefore I am not a member... but I know what they are doing. This is only the beginning of a long term relationship with this country... and right now you don't like it. I find it quite interesting because they are in their genesis... it's going to be quite a learning experience to see how they plan on pulling off fitting in as this nations 3rd party... and they will do it.. count on it... One other thing.. you may not know it, but they are gaining strength. Slowly and methodically...

There are ways to ensure that revenue is applied to reducing the deficit, though I wouldn't mind seeing the Social Security IOU paid back (instead of cutting it), but by giving funds to the states to do what ever they will is the mistake--this is where I feel you are wrong in blaming the president for the money not being used "correctly." It's not so much a blame the president as it is seeing the money go down the tubes. I don't give a whit what Obama does... but when I see as much money go to something that didn't benefit the country the way it was supposed to, and have him laugh about it on national TV... well that sort of pissed me off. Some people wonder why I am so against him... it's because his flippant attitude towards Americans really gets under my skin.

The stimulus helped states keep teachers, cops, firefighters from being let go, which was helpful not only to the economy but also in providing basic, necessary services. The tax cuts were small but were for the middle class. The infrastructure spending was so small it didn't provide the "jolt" you mention. Infrastructure spending done now will be less than if we "kick it down the road" not only in terms of maintenance versus rebuilding, but in terms of the value of the dollar. I know the money went to help sustain these jobs. Now the dilemma begins to keep those jobs. The stimulus money was a temporary fix. It didn't fix anything. The local governments are having as much a problem raising revenue as anyone else is... so tell me how it helped in the long run. I'm not into temporary fixes... if you can use it to save 500 long term jobs perminantly I'm for it.. I'm not for keeping 5000 people working for a few months.

The children and grandchildren argument is silly too (sorry), but look at what our parents and grandparents did for us from infrastructure to NASA, and we can't even buck up for decent education for future generations. The concept isn't silly at all... compound what was left for us and then add that to what we are leaving for them. The further you go, with the conditions we have now, the worse it's going to be. Long term... think long term.

Cantors statement about jobs for the unemployed is drivel if he's referring to another century of "trickle down" tax cuts for the rich (or so-called "job creators"). If he and his ilk don't offer up a real jobs bill, he is talking out of his butt. At least unemployment, or even vouchers, in itself stimulates the economy. And we can't do any of these things without revenue -- at the minimum closing loopholes, which is fairer than just allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for everyone. I have no problem with closing loopholes as long as it doesn't add costs elsewhere.

Sending the unemployed to soup kitchens, or Medicaid recipients to ER, or refusing to close loopholes so cities have to raise sales taxes, etc. is just shifting what we all already pay out with NO benefit to economic growth. And this is the big boondoggle. How do we get BOTH sides to agree on it? There has to be buy in from all concerned. As long as the democrats and republicans are at war with each other... nothing will get accomplished.

The Real Dew Drop Inn? – The White House / Washington, D.C.

Funnny, in the week that saw the debt ceiling fiasco (which didn’t address reality, which didn’t address the very warnings of the credit agencies), in a week that saw the stock market loses track back to October 2008 (the month after the peak of the recession), on a day after the stock market dumped earnings for the whole year in an afternoon – when America lost almost $2 trillion ……. The delusional tree house gang of political geniuses talk about their fantasy bar and pie for their beloved leader.

The pathetic part is …… how is this that much, relatively speaking, different from their delusional, detached from reality leader in the White House?

The day after signing the debt deal, Obama spends $230 billion to bring our national debt even our GDP!

FIRST TIME IN HISTORY.

Obama literally blows the interest payments for a whole year – the first day. Then what? Party Time – for three days ……. Still partying as the S&P drops the hammer on the United States credit rating.

FIRST TIME IN HISTORY.

Speaking of history, a century of debate among the world’s greatest academics and scholars about Keynesian Economists has finally been settled by Mr. Obama with Mr. Standard and Mr. Poors finally calling the game.

The largest Keynesian spender in the history of the world has finally proved what anyone with any real life practical sense knew – IT DOESN’T WORK.

True Patriot calls for, or regurgitates Obama’s obfuscating, class warfare catch phrase – “balanced approach”.

Do you think S & P is really concerned about “approach”?

Don’t you think credit agencies might be more impressed if Obama would “approach” the idea of actually doing a BUDGET?

Don’t you think they might be more impressed with “approaching” a “balanced” BUDGET than talking around issues of a fiscal soundness by trying to make political points?

And about the “tax the rich” shiny object – If you take the 8,279 richest people in the United States, the Buffets, the Gates, the Oprays, all of Obama’s richest pals and everyone else with incomes more than double Obama’s $5 million ……. Take all – 100% of their income – AND OBAMA SPENT THAT ON TUESDAY – ($240 billion for 2009 according to the IRS.)

Take EVERYBODY IN THE UNITED STATES AND DOUBLE THEIR TAXES – and that is still HALF A TRILLON SHORT OF WHAT OBAMA IS BORROWING – THIS YEAR ALONE!

Talk about pie …… yea – pie in the sky solutions.

True Patriot calls for compromise?

That’s what we got with the debt ceiling deal! Compromise such as base line budgeting where you say you cut a couple trillion when in fact you really just cut the increase in spending while actually spending $7-$8 trillion.

You don’t think S & P sees through this compromise crap, you don’t think the DOW saw this coming with a 513 drop in one day!

Conservatives quite frequently, (ok ….. me probably more than most) refer derisively to Obama as the community organizer. It is accurate. It is not hyperbole – imagine a corporation hiring a man without ONE PRIOR SECOND of executive experience being hired to be CEO. And this is exactly who liberals, the media, the wishful thinking, the clueless in their tree houses, etc. chose for the biggest, most difficult executive gig in the world.

America has been compromised enough.

Time to clean the White House and the LaLa land regulars eating their pies at the Dew Drop Inn in Washington, D.C.

Thanks a lot GOP/TP!

Yes, we all bear a portion of the blame for being where we are. But the two main reasons given by Standard & Poors for downgrading are credit rating are two of the main tenets of the GOP/TP mantra.

Thanks to you, our credit is in tatters. Thanks to you, housing, student loans, mortgages, everything... will cost more.

While you have been boasting of your political, economic and moral expertise, we have become the laughing stock of the rest of the world. Your credibility is now shot. And you own this.

I hope you are happy with yourselves. And I hope you enjoy the next 14 months in office because after that we will vote as many of you out of office as possible.

True Pariot (sic)

The Tea Party consists of ideologues who exist in an echo chamber ….

With regard to the debt ceiling debate, what is their ideology ….. a belief that you shouldn’t spend more than you have decade after decade?

I wonder what the ideology of S & P is?

And in a cone of silence to keep out any other information …

When the Chinese, the Russians, the Brits / everyone in the world says your spending is insane, when the ratings agencies threaten and warn you – they think maybe you should make a serious effort?

They are the ones in the cone, they are the ones not listening?

And since they don’t care about consequences ….

I thought they were concerned about the consequence of a drop in the credit rating? Seem to recall they felt the solutions being presented by Boehner, McConnell and Reid (was Obama involved?) didn’t address the $4 trillion cut the agencies had wanted, didn’t address the real issues, was just more Washington, DC games that got into this situation.

I thought their fear was the consequence of not seriously addressing this issue.

Who was right?

bob -- Serious debt reduction without damaging the economy requires a "balanced approach" that includes revenue -- This is not just my opinion, but what economists and S&P are saying. President Obama's $4 trillion Big Deal included an equal amount of revenue to spending cuts, plus cost savings from entitlements, if you'll recall (or maybe you never knew).

In addition, the downgrade was due to lack of a positive future direction, from McConnell admiting that the nation is a hostage worth ransom, to Boehner, et al, promising Norquist that they would not place anyone on the commission who would agree to revenue increases of any kind.

Add to that ongoing obstructionism by the GOP/TP against any legislation to create jobs or stimulate the economy. So far the Republican house has only produced 14 measly bills. In Pelosi's first term, the Dems produced 304 bills, some of which were very significant.

Even before the downgrade, the American people's approval of Republicans waslower than Dems, and approval of the Tea Party was in the toilet. Now we see Reid only repeat what S&P issued, while Republicans have come out in force with partisan spin from blaming President Obama for the downgrade to other chicken crap from Cantor about jobs. If conservatives think the downgrade will be blamed on the president and not on them, they are even more stupid than we thought.

Bob, I'm as angry as you over what Obama has done to my country. You think spelling out the truth for these worshippers is going to get them to see reality?

I can tell you, it ain't happening. They read his book of speeches for comfort when they begin to have doubts! These sound like rational people to you?

Obama has historically, unprecedentedly, spent so outrageously that our credit rating has been dropped.

He has historically, unprecedentedly, given billions of tax dollars to his donors, in full view of the besotted press, who do not raise so much as the meekest question.

He has historically, unprecedentedly, violated the Constitution by starting a war with another country without the consent of congress, and not only is there no bill of impeachment, but the besotted press does not even cover the war!

The perfect solution to this disaster of a presidency would be if the treehouse nuts formed an imaginary White House, rather than an imaginary bar, and invited Obama to join that group. Narcissists require adoration from those around them- a couple weeks with this crew, and he'd resign from the actual White House so fast your head would spin.

They'd have the full attention of their god, we'd get this disaster out of the White House sooner than we thought, and everybody wins.

We have had a AAA credit rating since 1917.

Kept it during the Great Depression, World War II, the stagflation years. . .

It took Obama's incompetence to lose it. His ridiculous spending, lack of realistic economic planning, and multiple-billion dollar payoffs to his donors.

In response to his failures, he blames Bush, (who never massaged the numbers so much that their credibility was questioned by ratings agencies), ATMs and airport kiosks, the Japanese Tsunami, and the Arab Spring.

Note who is missing from his list of people to blame for his failures.

I truly do not care that the worshippers in this site- and that includes the so-called journalists- will defend his failures to the death. I DO care, tremendously, that they will defend his failures to the death of my country.

I've called out the lack of journalistic integrity before- no coverage of the war with Libya, no coverage of the billions in pay-offs to his supporters, no coverage of the amount of money he expends on his weekly parties, or vacations, or "date nights".

No coverage of the misreporting of GDP numbers, which get revised to reality months or years later- undermining the credibility of the reporting agencies. Do you think they suddenly became that incompetent? Are you seriously telling me that you have not noticed?

No questioning of millions of people categorized out of the labor force- driving the unemployment rate down three full percentage points.

You have your status enshrined in the Constitution as the Fourth Estate. You allow your absolute worship if this totally inept, incompetent narcissist to prevent you from doing your Constitutionally protected jobs, and the entire country suffers as a result.

You have relegated yourselves to the status of paid propagandists for a little tin god. I can only hope that in a few short years, the media complicity with this disastrous administration is taught as a cautionary tale in journalism schools.

It took Obama's incompetence to lose it. His ridiculous spending, lack of realistic economic planning, and multiple-billion dollar payoffs to his donors.

CNN had an interview with John Chambers, head of sovereign ratings at S&P, last night. When asked why the downgrade was made he made it clear who was to blame.

EVERYBODY!!!

"The political brinksmanship we saw over raising the debt ceiling was something that was really beyond our expectations."

"There's plenty of blame to go around. This is a problem that's been a long time in the making...well over this administration and the prior administration."

Both sides screwed up...Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative...even the Tea Partiers.

You simply cannot be that dense.

You honestly thought that anyone, from any ratings agency, was going to come out and say, in plain English, "it's all Obama's fault"?

Let's do an Obama special, and look at the inferences-because they are what is important.

Four trillion dollars is what OBAMA has added to the debt in less than three years. You think it is pure coincidence that four trillion dollars was the number S&P pointed to as the amount that needed to be cut?

They also mentioned the lack of credibility of the GDP numbers that have been announced. I've told you before- in no other administration have those numbers ever varied by more than a couple of tenths of a percent when reevaluated. The fact that we are dealing with revisions of upwards of two full percentage points in the administration is patently dishonest reporting.

Go on ahead and keep thinking that your god is perfect and not at all at fault for this disaster.

The rest of us know better.

No Joe, No Bo. Looks like the facts that you posted just got the liberals running for their fox news!! Yes they get the low down on fox because they need to hear the facts to make up something to keep Obama in office. But we all know that it is not about Obama! If Obama gets a break in the jobless rate, the economy pick up, and more people get off of the grid. they will claim that Carter was the greatest president of all times! They will claim; if the man would have had 4 more years, they would have made him king! And this will be their greatest victory, because they will claim Reagan was just lucky instead of being smarter then most liberals! GOOD JOB POSTING THE FACTS. I DIDN'T HAVE TO SET FIRST READS STAIGHT TODAY AND I GOT TO MAKE FUN OF THEM LIBERALS INSTEAD. THANK GOD FOR LIBERALS, THEY CRACK ME UP. Wait I bet they got some so called facts from a non-governmentweb site to post! Have a great day posting, I got to go to work! A full time job with health care, 401k, a pension plan, and we don't pay any union dues!

Some of you have good points to day. The usual suspects not so much. Meantime I'm going to do what is unusual for me on a week end and that is ponder things a little bit and bring it back here for serious discusion.

Let’s review the facts shall we

Fact: President Obama proposed a ‘BIG’ debt deal of 4 trillion dollars; 3 trillion in deficit cuts & 1 trillion in additional revenues.

Fact: Standard & Poor’s was looking for a 4 trillion dollar deal.

Fact: Speaker of the House John Boehner & #2 in charge, Eric Cantor walked out on the deal!

Fact: The tea baggers were obstinate about any additional revenues.

Fact: John Boehner is on record claiming he & the tea party got 98% of what they were asking for.

Fact: Mitch McConnell is also on record asserting that the ‘hostage taking’ strategy was successful and we can look forward to MORE of it in the future!

The Teapublican’s own this mess lock, stock & barrel.

Like Mitch McConnell said – our ONLY goal is to make sure President Obama is a one term President whatever the COST!

Once again, thanks to the political brinksmanship, main
street will be paying the tab!

Following his usual m.o., Obama did not even address the downgrade in his weekly radio address.

If he remains true to pattern, he will have some inane, idiotic statement on it on Monday. One week later, when that response is deemed stupid, he will have another, similar, inane, idiotic statement. When that is treated the same as his initial statement, three weeks later he will, finally, have something useful to say- but it will have been said by others before.

Not only does he not have the answers, he does not even understand the questions.

You expect any competent policies from a man who, with breathtaking stupidity, blamed the lack of jobs on airport kiosks and ATM machines?

That Obama is an abject failure is not the fault of republicans, but of Obama.

That we, as a nation, are suffering through this failure is the fault of a complicit media. He was never vetted, was allowed to run a campaign that was a walking, talking lie, and was let off the hook for blunders that would have derailed any other politician- 57 states come to mind.

If he had been a republican, the media would have showcased this incompetence to such a degree that he would have resigned already.

If he were a republican, the bright light of the media would have shone on the corruption of his giving billions to his supporters, and he would be under indictment already.

If he were a republican, his disdain of the Constitution with regard to Libya would have gotten him impeached already. You "professional journalists" cannot even find the time to report on Libya- preferring to spend your time swooning over how much Obama raised in the last quarter.

You'll find your professional ethics again son- January of 2013, to be exact, when a republican president is sworn in to office. I just hope there's a country left by then.

In Standard & Poor's own words:

[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

[...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

[...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

[...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

Standard & Poors indicates that they could improve their rating for the U.S. if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”

It sure doesn't sound like President Obama is to blame...

Fact - Obama and company spent upward of $3.2 Trillion dollars in less than 2 1/2 years.

Fact - Obama took $1.2 Trillion and used it to not fix a thing. Temporarily keeping public service people at work is NOT a fix.

Fact - Obama signed into law the largest social program this nation has ever seen (ACA) Costs aren't even known, nor do they know how they will pay for it. It isn't operational yet.

Fact - Obama did NOT end the wars - he's kept the Bush policies alive and kicking thereby costing us BILLIONS

Fact - Obama did NOT shut down GITMO - one of his largest campaign promises - instead he's kept the Bush policies alive and kicking.

Fact - Obama sponsored the bail-out of Chrysler and GM. Chrysler is tanking and will soon go out of business if they keep on their financial spiral into the abyss. This cost the American taxpayer BILLIONS.

Fact - Obama was duly elected. He accepted the job and everything, EVERYTHING that came with it. He has spent the last 2 1/2 years of his responsibility blaming the previous administration even though he accepted the job, knowing full well all the problems associated with it. This is a complete lack of leadership.

Fact - Bush's ending unemployment rate was 7.2% Obama's increase to the unemployment is 2 full percentage points. And that's only what is reported.

Fact - The GDP for the first quarter of 2011 was revised downward to 0.4%. The second quarter GDP was reported as 1.4% with a revision pending.

This president is killing this country through death by 1000 cuts. We are bleeding profusely and the liberals are dancing in the streets worshipping the man with the blade.

Oh, and one more thing, according to the WSJ -- House Majority Leader, Eric Cantor declined to comment Friday night!

I wonder why that is?

In the past, Eric has never passed up a microphone & his chance to stick his foot into his mouth! lol

98% baby -- this is ALL yours now! ;o)

Anyone can parse an article to make it say anything they want it to. Highlighting only 1/2 the points in the article only makes it 1/2 true. It appears the liberals are trying to get away with that old method. Anything to boost their failing president... only problem is... He can't be saved. No amount of make-up, no amount of boosting him up will cover for the lack of leadership and inedpt handing of the nations business. Obama is the one in charge... he bears the responsibility for any downgrades in our ratings. He is the man... the buck stops right at his front door.

The liberals can try to place the responsibility on anyone they like. It doesn't matter. The PRESIDENT OWNS IT... How many times have we heard the liberals on these boards say... BUSH owns it... So what goes around, comes around. Anything to do with the nations business.. the president is the CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER of the country.. When something happens, the president either gets the credit, or in this case, the blame.

Hmm...looks like "no joe" and "brianb" need a hug.

Hmm...looks like "no joe" and "brianb" need a hug.

No kidding! lol

Has everyone forgotten it's CONGRESS who is solely responsible for raising the debt ceiling & budgetary matters?

Last time I checked, President Obama occupies the Executive branch of the Government...

Nice try - but NO SALE! ;o)

Boehner & Co. own this debacle!

Please continue to rave on - it's understandable!

Why would you start to take some culpability now?

No, Noid, what we need is a new president-

Pronto.

Anything to do with the nations business.. the president is the CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER of the country.. When something happens, the president either gets the credit, or in this case, the blame.

Really? Thanks for the tip...too bad too many conservatives didn't want to give any credit for bin Laden being "past tense".

But, I digress.

The difference between being President and being a CEO is that a CEO could have taken unilateral action. The President can't because the Consitution doesn't let him.

Congress was given the task of passing legislation...and they seem pretty proud of the job that was completed (Boehner: "We got 98% of what we wanted."). The President signed it.

All, therefore, seem to share the responsibility...will you at least acknowledge that?

Why would I need a hug? I'm not the one upset about this. I'm not defending anyone like the liberals are. I don't need a support group, I'm at perfect peace with myself.

I'm still curious about Noid... a state of mind or a food group? The only noids I know about have an ad out in front.

No, Noid, what we need is a new president-

Pronto.

Okay, then...who?

The reason I ask is that a friend of mine pointed out the problem with 2004. Democrats clearly stood against something...but, what did they stand FOR?

Well, we know what the GOP stands against. What do they stand FOR?

Da Noid... what you say does NOT change the fact that the president will be remembered for this... along with all the other negatives he has created.

You liberals never give creedence to the fact that during Bush's last 2 years, congress held the purse strings and created more debt... That is never acknowledged by liberals... so if you are keeping true to form, then this is owned by Obama. Sorry, but you can't have it one way to suit your needs of the moment. You HAVE to be consistent, or your whole ideology shatters into a billion pieces.

Very simple, noid- a growing economy. A lower debt. A safe, secure country.

In other words, the opposite of Obama in every way.

Obama has let the EPA run amok- slipping cap and trade in on Christmas Eve, lowering ozone standards that had already been lowered and were not due for review for another ten years- all of which cost JOBS.

He has let the MLRB run amok- costing JOBS.

He has taken billions of our money to pay off his donors- tenfold over their donations. That did not stimulate anything but his donors- and the debt.

He invaded Libya- tell me, what have yup heard lately? Silly me- when Obama said "days, not weeks", I did not realize he meant the news coverage.

Maybe he plans to kill Quaddafi as an October surprise?

I would not put it past him.

Very simple, noid- a growing economy. A lower debt. A safe, secure country.

In other words, the opposite of Obama in every way.

Thank you for proving a point...see, you just couldn't help yourself...even in your very simple answer you just couldn't resist playing the "I Hate Obama" card.

This is what happens when you give the repubs 98% of what they want (thank God it wasn't 100%). But who was there to draw a line in the sand? Who was there to stand firmly against the insane demands of the repubs? Why were they given 98% of what they wanted? If no one stands up to a bully, the bully gets his way.

True Uniformed Patriot,

First, it's pretty funny that you never challenge or try to refute any points I actually make.

Why is that? Can't do it, so you just talk around the issues and try to marginalize and blame?

Serious debt reduction without damaging the economy requires a "balanced approach" that includes revenue --

Of course we need revenue, revenue of 18.5% of GDP like under Bush in 2007 as opposed to Obama's 15% would be great, huh?

The problem is not tax rates - it's the incompetence of the President.

We need the tax revenue of the 25 million unemployed / underemployed. We need to grow the economy.

Too bad Obama has absolutely no clue how to do that.

Too bad he actually deliberately destroys the energy industry, the lifeblood of our economy ....... tens/hundreds of thousands of jobs denied to people dying to work, companies that want to hire.

Obama is intentionally damaging the economy in pursuit of his green dreams.

President Obama's $4 trillion Big Dealincluded an equal amount of revenue to spending cuts, plus cost savings from entitlements, if you'll recall (or maybe you never knew).

How off the reality chain can you be? Where is Obama going to get $2 trillon in taxes or his code word "revenue".

You didn't read my numbers, want more? There ain't enough money to sustain Obam's spending. Simple fact!

I know this is way over your head so let me put it this......

We need the private-sector to create jobs.

How does the heart of our economy, the private-sector create jobs in a time of stress when YOU TAKE $2 TRILLON OUT OF IT.

the downgrade was due to lack of a positive future direction, from McConnell admiting that the nation is a hostage worth ransom, to Boehner, et al, promising Norquist that they would not place anyone on the commission who would agree to revenue increases of any kind.

Still regurgitating that thinkprogress crap?

Are you really so stupid as to believe the S & P is talking about a anonymous, bigoted, partisan source eaves-dropping on one side of a phone conversation or the fact that what kind of a positive direction can you set when OBAMA CANNOT EVEN DO A SIMPLE, FUNDAMENTAL - DAMN BUDGET! WHEN YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WHOSE OWN PARTY GOES AROUND HIM BECAUSE HE IS SO INCOMPETENT AND INCAPABLE OF LEADERSHIP.

Even before the downgrade, the American people's approval of Republicans waslower than Dems, and approval of the Tea Party was in the toilet.

Wow I wonder why?

NBC, mostly still owned by GE, Obama's best corporate crony having the Today Show do interviews which "psychologists" trying to determine what is wrong with tea partiers, other media sycophants trying to determine their psychosis, (A balanced budget is sign of psychosis?), the Vice president of the United States as well as every other dem and leg humper calling them terrorists when they don't even call jihadists that cut off heads and fly planes into buildings terrorists ......... yea the low information folks can be swayed to an extent by the liberal media...... what is your point?

Bottom-line: It's pretty pathetic when the POTUS and the Democrat Party can't handle a little tiny grass roots group with no leader that basically comprises 1/7th of 1/3 of the government and has to have the Liberal Big Media go to such lengths to place blame.

If conservatives think the downgrade will be blamed on the president and not on them,

Really? You seriously think the people described above even know who Cantor, Boehner and McConnell are?

You think the Tea Party will be known forever as the first President of the United States to suffer a downgrade?

they are even more stupid than we thought.

Yea ..... right.

So tell me, what does a conservative say to someone who is too stupid to realize how stupid they are?

Da Noid-

It isn't about hating President Obama...policy issues aside, most Americans have always, and continue to, like President Obama.

I like him...policies aside.

Good husband and father...smart and glib, with a good sense of humor.

Hubris...?

You bet!

What U.S. President hasn't displayed hubris?

Considering President Obama's background, I wouldn't consider his "hubris level" among U.S. Presidents to be exceptional.

lol

Hardly...he's entitled to his hubris as far as I'm concerned.

But, let's cut to the chase.

President Obama was elected, primarily... to address the economic crisis that began in Fall 2008.

He also benefited from the nation's "Bush fatigue", and from a sense that change was needed...fundamental change.

So...American voters elected President Obama and sent him to office with large Democratic majorities in both Houses of Congress.

President Obama's economic stimulus program was quickly rubber-stamped by the Democrats' Congressional majorities.

On to health care reform.

We know how THAT turned out...Americans still largely OPPOSE Obamacare.

Still...Obamacare was passed by the Congressional Democratic majority.

A completely partisan piece of legislation.

That said...it's law.

American voters spoke again in November 2010...their displeasure with the Democratic majority couldn't have been more clear.

Anyway...

The bottom line is simple...don't get "lost in the weeds".

If a majority of voters in the United States decide (or have already decided) that President Obama is not capable of addressing the nation's economic problems...they'll choose an alternative.

Given President Obama's performance to date on the economy...

Many will be looking for an alternative...

As they did in 2008.

True - If obama, the incumbant, thinks that his time is better spent campaigning against an unknown opponent rather than doing his job as POTUS then I as well as others will continue to point this out.

Of course this begs the question of the libs always hammering on bush, and he isn't even potus any more. If the libs want to dwell in the past, so be it! Obama is potus now and he can choose to spend time in Washington working towards solutions to our economy or he can play Nero and fiddle away time doing campaigning and fund raising in an off election year.

Hey no joe,

You think spelling out the truth for these worshippers is going to get them to see reality?

Worshippers is such an accurate term. Liberalism really is a faith, a religion to many.

Unlike other faiths that deal with a real higher power, things beyond our capacity to understand, ideas that can not be tested, understandings that history does not provide for ....... we do have have histories of liberalism, we do have facts, we do have the failed experiments, we do have the numbers, we do have the logic and proof - yet they deny ....... they will always believe their faith.

Obama is nothing new, there have been many many Obamas before .... hope and change is as old as the hills.

Socialism, collectivism, progressivism, blah blah have all been tried before ....... lean forward, huh?

No there is no more reasoning with them

But they are a small 20% minority. We can handle that. We don't come here to convince them ... we come here to present the argument, the facts and hopefully help the undecided make a more informed decision.

I believe Obama is an existential threat to our country, way of life and future of our children.

I never imagined I would ever say that about an American president. (I never imagined a credit downgrade either.)

You do an amazing job. Thank you no joe.

NJNG, bob, bagboy, et al -- Talk to the hand. You do not have a case; no lawyer will represent you.

Lack of imagination tends to be the Republican version of mea culpa. That was the excuse for 9/11 and it's been their excuse for everything else Bush & Co pulled.

It's also proportional to their own failures. They get 98% of what they want,...and yet they have no ownership, no responsibility and no skin in the game. LOL

It's an entire character problem,...not just a sound bite for them. Behave horribly, cause problems, stomp their feet, hold their breath - then project THEIR behavior onto the opposition and repeat until it's 'fact'. Second verse, same as the first. Gotta get better cuz it can't get worse,...

Lack of common sense is the hallmark of the Obama cult.

Unemployment up two percentage points since his inauguration? It's Bush's fault.

Enough people out of the labor force to bring that number down three percentage points? All those people gave up- and it's Bush's fault.

The sudden incompetence of those who report out the GDP numbers? Must be Bush's fault- or the TEA Party's- or the sun got in their eyes- or they tripped on a rock.

Nothing, not one single thing, could possibly be Obama's fault. He's so dreamy.

My problem is not with the idiots members of his cult on this site.

My problem is with the so-called professional journalists on this site, who share their dubious religion.

true - by your words neither will a lawyer represent you or other lib posters on FR/FT. Don't really care if you are the pot or the kettle your own arguments doesn't have merit. Of course an intelligent person would have already realized this.

Feed the hungry! Obama gets enough to eat! But we all know that the number of people on food stamps and people struggling with hunger has doubled in the last two years! Obamas mistakes and failures to take care of the nations problems in no longer a laughing matter! Bet their are some good people struggling in your town that would love to have a chunk of ham and some cole slaw! Forget the clowns birthday and help the needy that he has forgotten about. Look at his 35,000.00 a plate dinner in Chicago, and we all know that had nothing to do with any poor people! He talks about them like he cares and parties with his rich friends! The so called "evil" rich friends!!! Obama is make fun of us behind our backs!!

Olddog, You need to catch up here.You are posting in the midst of a conversation on this thread that was yesterday. But I see you are referring to my post above...

You, I and all the folks posting on these thread get enough to eat. the poor and hungry are not sitting around with their computers posting on a political blog on a Saturday.

You, I and the President agree that poverty, the growing number of folks on food stamps is a disgrace for this country. Calling him a "clown" does not add value to your post.

In conclusion, I do know people in my neighborhood that would love to have ham and coleslaw for their supper. i work with many of these people everyday.

In a previous post above you stated that you have a nice job with benefits. I hope you remember the poor and those in need . I hope you support the programs that help them with your tax dollars, charitable contributions, and your presence.

Fancy....either way it cuts, they are all a disaster.

Thank you Clara, love that song 'Sweet Caroline' and who sings it. Have a great weekend.

HUGS to all

Fancy that, Now remember you are now on record here at FR!! No way though with the Jeb Bush option.

Oh, Perry will make the final four cut, I feel certain; but he'll split the Bat Sh!t crazy vote and Romney will take the nom in a squeaker,...

I saw him in concert once at Kemper. He does a great show, GB Mama!

Fancy has obviously started drinking early...or never stopped from last weekend.

I know, Mark, just be careful - I've been on the board for 3 1/2 years and it's a little addictive. Thank goodness it doesn't cost anything,...

Have a great weekend, see you Monday!

Good weekend, all.

Same to you Mark!

FR is the cheapest form of therapy around! ;o)

Care to join us for a drink over @ the Dew Drop Inn?

Feisty,

Ah, the legendary Dew Drop Inn I have read so much about. I accept your invitation (as long as there is a secret handshake involved!!!!!)

Mark, I am relatively new myself. i know FR is one of the best political blogs. Not only entertaining,especially on Fridays, but very informative. i have gotten great book , web site recommendations.

I can only imagine what it is like around here about four weeks before the general election.!!

See you t the DDI, i will buy you a second drink...

(as long as there is a secret handshake involved!!!!!)

Here's a preview Mark - practice up now - ya hear! lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0g27yEu-AU

Eeeeeeeeexcellent Smithers

Good thing I Grandfathered in before that secret handshake. Somebody might get hurt with all those shenanigans. You'll come on down and see us when you get a chance Mark. We're here most every Friday and on special occasions.

Mark in SoCal, glad you decided to post. Welcome to our own version of happy hour on Fridays. I read FR about 3 years before posting. FYI, lived in San Diego for over 21 years.

Fiesty-- I think I will have to really practice up on that secret handshake.

Fiesty-- I think I will have to really practice up on that secret handshake.

You & me both Tom! lol

I've got it down except for the cartwheels! ;o))

Plus, cartwheels & alcohol really don't mix!

Doubled up on the reinforcement for the Chandelier Steeler. Glad you could make it in this evening. Hope your visit is going good.

The 98 Percent Solution is starting to drip.

Drip ... drip ... drip. ;-)

Explain to me GOP, what would have happened if the debt ceiling was just raised without any sort of interference from any opposition to it? Do you actually think that it would have gone unnoticed? Do you think the AAA rating wouldn't have fallen anyway?

To blame one faction or the other doesn't make any sense. It's the government using piss poor fiscal policies and not showing any restraint. They've been doing it for years. This is not a democrat or a republican or a tea party thing. This is our multi political government doing it's utmost to abuse the credit system. The blame lies squarely on elected officials of every sort. They do not show restraint and lack the common accounting skills to know when to stop spending.

Explain to me GOP, what would have happened if the debt ceiling was just raised without any sort of interference from any opposition to it? Do you actually think that it would have gone unnoticed? Do you think the AAA rating wouldn't have fallen anyway?

Maybe, but that's not what happened, is it?

What happened is that John Boehner got 98 percent of what he wanted, and S&P still wasn't satisfied, specifically in part because there were no revenue increases as part of the package.

Thus, you can't deny that the debt ceiling deal was a contributing factor to the S&P downgrade, and that the Tea Party owns it now.

Sooner or later, the other ratings agencies will come to the same conclusion.

Or do you think that when the super committee renews this same idiotic partisan debate, they will somehow become calmed and more confident?

That's plain silly Anna. It's not the Tea Party that owns it... it's the American people that own it. This is not some sort of a contest of wills. It was the liberals that wanted compromise... and that's exactly what happened. The republicans compromised with the democrats in lowering the amount of cuts. The democrats jumped on board with it. Raising revenue during a downturn in the economic cycle was agreed on by everyone to not be a good idea. Even Steny Hoyer agreed that raising revenues was a bad idea. The $4 trillion deal proposed by Obama and Boehner included revenue increases... that's why Boehner walked out of it... He could never get enough votes to make it happen... As it was, the vote passed without tea party support. If it were only the tea party then why didn't Boehner take the $4 Trillion dollar deal? It was because even democrats wouldn't agree to such a number.

Right on anna - in typical illogical unfounded and stupid lib fashion you have proved again that it is all the rights fault. You must win a lot of civil cases with that type of logic.

LMAO! I can see it now, anna before a judge..."therefore your honor it is plain to see that the teaparty caused my client to do what he/she did, you need not read any brief for I tell you it is true!"

Anna you say...

Or do you think that when the super committee renews this same idiotic partisan debate, they will somehow become calmed and more confident?

Looks like S&P understands this, hence the downgrade. Not to worry though the US now has a split rating and the FED has already replied back to S&P that come monday morning the government will carry on as usual.

Looks like S&P will have to down grade some european AAA nations as well or possibly being blamed that the rating downgrade was really political in nature.

I guess we blame the tea party because they were the ones holding the gun during the negotiations. Then boner bragged he got 98% of what he wanted.

Sounds like the the tea people own the 2012 tea-cession or is that tear-cession.

Explain to me GOP, what would have happened if the debt ceiling was just raised without any sort of interference from any opposition to it?

EXACTLY OUR GODDAMN POINT!! THE DEBT CEILING WAS RAISED WITHOUT INTERFERENCE BEFORE THIS YEAR!! The debt ceiling gets raised to cover funds already spent. It is like me at my dining room table writing a check to pay my gas bill from the month before.

Routine.

1. You incur a bill

2. You pay a bill

Simple.

You cannot deny that there was no drama over raising the debt ceiling before now. Between Y2K and 2010 there as no static at all. Republicans, rubber stamps for all Bush spending increases through that period, are now acting as if they are discovering deficits for the first time. Ever.

Rhetoric thrown about by repubicans (McConnell) and others indicates that their interest lies not in fiscal responsibility, but in political facility. Repubs are using this for tactical / theatrical / electoral advantage.

Spending is out of control. Has been for a long time, needed to stop in 1980, but that is not the point!

My point is how this formerly routine policy formality has been perverted into a political cudgel to advantage the position of ONE POLITICAL PARTY. Just one. The GOP motives are transparent to all but you.

I refuse to hear this "both parties are at fault" B.S. BOTH parties are NOT at fault.

Boehner could have taken Obama's $4.7 trillion, and this would've been over.

Done.

You cannot deny that there was no drama over raising the debt ceiling before now. Between Y2K and 2010 there as no static at all. Republicans, rubber stamps for all Bush spending increases through that period, are now acting as if they are discovering deficits for the first time. Ever. So your point is... The republicans did it so the democrats get to do it too? In your system of fairness, when does anyone ever look at how large of an anvil we have over our heads? In 50 years from now when the debt is $20billion trillion? Not that it will matter to me in 50 years... but it might matter to the people living in this country then. Who does the debt of this country matter to? Is it always to be continually raised without addressing the slowdown and eventual payoff? I can imagine your question to me - Why should I worry about it? Tell me that's not what you are thinking. The debt influences the way our economy grows. It's the liberals that keep on saying that Bush is to blame... well maybe he is... and we are seeing the economic decline... shouldn't that be an eyeopener to controlling it and stopping it? How can we EVER expect to see this country's future turn around if we keep on raising the debt ceiling without ever addressing the control of it?

Rhetoric thrown about by repubicans (McConnell) and others indicates that their interest lies not in fiscal responsibility, but in political facility. Repubs are using this for tactical / theatrical / electoral advantage. Are they? You don't think any of them have honest motives that may include what I just said? See, the divisions in this country run deep and the chasm grows wider when this sort of mistrust occurs. On the flip side of the coin, how come we never hear democrats say anything about controlling the debt, or trying to pay it down so the monkey gets off our back? How about some honesty in your answer.... not political rethoric or excuses. This is not all onesided...

Spending is out of control. Has been for a long time, needed to stop in 1980, but that is not the point!

My point is how this formerly routine policy formality has been perverted into a political cudgel to advantage the position of ONE POLITICAL PARTY. Just one. I disagree. This created advantages for both parties.

I refuse to hear this "both parties are at fault" B.S. BOTH parties are NOT at fault. Then you deny the spending of $3.2 Trillion dollars in 2 1/2 years by the Obama administration? You can deny it all you like... I can also deny that I'm getting older but that doesn't make it true.

Boehner could have taken Obama's $4.7 trillion, and this would've been over.

One of the reasons our AAA rating was downgraded was because they didn't feel American was serious about the debt because the plan did not include any revenue increases.

Let me repeat that for you. Our AAA rating was downgraded because they didn't feel America was serious about the debt because the plan did not include any revenue increases.

Talk around in circles till the cows come home, but this is the root cause of our problems in America today. The absolute refusal by the republicans to raise taxes on the richest in America.

No one believes the republicans are serious about the debt.

Brian: The republicans compromised with the democrats

Really?! Boehner has already said he got 98 percent of what he wanted. That's not compromise. McConnell has already admitted that he indeed held the country hostage. And that he would do it again. That's not responsible.

So save us the fake indignation! The GOP/TP owns this. Thanks a lot! NOT.

Thank you all for the illuminating debate, and Brian and american, especially, for your kind comments.

Now perhaps you understand why I put my money under my mattress.

If you think that on Monday the economy will "carry on as usual," then let your own money ride.

It's almost guaranteed to get a thrill.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz: 'We own the economy'

Democrats are ready to take responsibility for the state of the economy and they deserve credit for putting it on the right track, the party's chairwoman, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz .

Boehner said he got 98 percent he wanted.

Both stupid statements, and both are wrong.

You point fingers all you want, it wont change a thing. At the end of the day, Obama will be blamed as the first President in history to allow our credit rating to be downgraded.

It may surprise you to learn that I broke with conventional party thinking on this and many other things a long time ago. As a proud member of what they might call the "professional left," I'm not particularly impressed by what DWS says about this, or President Obama, either.

It's not just me, as you can see here. Many democrats are not happy that the President caved in on this. But that just emphasizes that the entire nature of this deal, as well as the deal last December, was driven by Tea Party thinking, which economists almost uniformly agree is wrong in this sort of situation.

Simply put, you don't starve your way out of a recession.

You can you try to paint it any way you want, and it won't change that.

Even Wall Street, which doesn't know much, knows that much.

President Obama will be blamed by the faux views and listeners of hate radio. The other 80% knows the tea people are responsible.

Spin it all you want, the American public are not quite as dumb as the republicans were hoping for.

Part of the downgrade report sited the problem as the inability of compromise in our government was cause for concern for the process going forward.(republicans) Another reason: The lack of increased revenue showed the lack of seriousness on the debt problem.(republicans again)

Seems it is driving you crazy, the republicans are getting the credit they deserve.

Americans First - You are still only looking at this through your rose colored glasses. The situation is not all one sided... and no amount of screaming, ranting, or wishing will change that. Your view of what Standard and Poor said about their decision only includes references to what you want it to say. There's a lot more in there than just your version. Your comments are starting to look real foolish because while most people understand the concept of shared responsibility, you do not.

I understand you may feel backed into a corner... and truly you are, because what you are throwing out there, lacks one thing... truth.

When it all boils down to the thick gravy... the one person that will bear the brunt of this will be Obama. He's the CEO of this country and he failed in his duty to ensure that our credit rating remained at the top. You can try to blame all the others... but in his scope of work, he's the one responsible.

I guess we blame the tea party because they were the ones holding the gun during the negotiations. Then boner bragged he got 98% of what he wanted.

Sounds like the the tea people own the 2012 tea-cession or is that tear-cession.

Senator Reid on the Senate floor (after the debt deal was signed) said: “I appreciate my friend the Republican leader putting his arms around the idea I came up with."

Sounds like all claimed credit and victory. Sounds like all will own the repercussions.

You mean shared responsibility like raising taxes on the richest, that kind of sharing?

You can pretend all you want, but the truth is that the whole manufactured debt ceiling crisis and the ensuing results are all laid at the feet of the republican tea party.

The Democratic victory was not letting the country go into default. The tea party victory got 98% of what they wanted to keep from killing America. The tea party wanted it and now they own it.

Now not only is our country still stuck with the worse decisions of the bush years (unfunded tax cuts and unfunded wars) and on top of barely pulling out of a recession the partiers now demand Hoover economics that have already been proven not to work.

There are hardly any jobs to be had and the republican answer is to throw 14 million people off of unemployment in January 2012. Then the tea-cession begins in earnest.

Maybe the lesson here is that you don't hold hostages and demand your way in a situation that you don't want to own.

American first, I have no problem with letting the obama (bush if you want) tax cuts expire acrross the board in 2013. I also have no problem in raising the FICA taxes that individuals pay as their contribution to medicare and SS. After all it is the individual who benifits, so let the individual pay more out of their own pocket. Got any problems with that?? Isn't that what shared sacrifice is all about?

As for all those being thrown off unemployment jan 2012, what are your plans for all those Americans already having falling off the rolls because their 99 weeks are up? Just think, some states don't even extend unemployment out to 99 weeks. Wonder if them falling off of the rolls play a big part in any unemployment rate decreases? maybe missy of tx can answer that?

AmericansFirst,

The tea party victory got 98% of what they wanted .... The tea party wanted it and now they own it.

The Tea Party did not get what they wanted. The Tea Party was the only group that thought the bill didn't go far enough and not one member of the Tea Party voted for it. As it turns out the Tea Party was right.

Brian:

When it all boils down to the thick gravy... the one person that will bear the brunt of this will be Obama. He's the CEO of this country and he failed in his duty to ensure that our credit rating remained at the top. You can try to blame all the others... but in his scope of work, he's the one responsible.

Seriously?! Wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago, when we were talking about the President's powers under the 14th Amendment, that conservatives insisting that only Congress has the power to borrow, and therefore the President not only did not have ALL the responsibility to protect our credit rating, but in fact had NO power to do so unless Congress acted.

So how EXACTLY is this fault?

Anna:

I don't know about you, but I have written the same stuff to Brian two dozen times and this guy refuses to let a fact soak through. No matter how many times I debunk his BS, he keeps coming back with the same BS the next day. Doesn't even hear me.

You can't reason with this dude at all.

Time to shut him off. He's a waste of effort.

It might not hurt you to read this ....

The agency pointed to political reluctance to make cuts to entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security, and Republicans' refusal even to consider increasing revenues by, for instance, ending the Bush tax cuts.

(emphasis added)

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/standard-poors-downgrades-us-credit-rating-aaa-aa/story?id=14220820

Boehner said he got 98 percent of what he wanted, so you own it now, baby.

Enjoy.

By the way, if you had anything going on upstairs, you would have seen this coming, like I did.

My nest egg is just fine.

anna - perhaps S&P failed to realize that the obama (bush) tax cuts are legislated to end Jan 2013.

BTW with all of obamas posturing on not throwing granny under the bus do you really think that obama had a viable plan for actually cutting $600 billion from medicare and SS? If I remember correctly he said medicaid was off the table which only leaves medicare and SS on the table.

Maybe you think that he can create a cut of $600 billion by eliminating waste and fraud in medicare and SS. Didn't he already use that excuse when he transferred $500 billion from medicare to fund obamacare? I wonder what type of creative accounting tricks he would have used to say he achieved the $600 billion in cuts?

I also wonder if obama will campaign on his wanting to cut another $600 billion from medicare in 2012. Bet he will tell us that the republicans made him do it! LMAO!

Anna -

The agency pointed to political reluctance to make cuts to entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security, and Republicans' refusal even to consider increasing revenues by, for instance, ending the Bush tax cuts.

I realize you were trying to make a point... but you forgot to put the first part of that quote in bold letters too. Again, I will emphasize... it's not all one sided.

I remember Obama did put social security on the table, the republicans walked because under no circumstances are they to ever ever let taxes get raised on the rich again.

Then like you the republicans thought social security should be on the table but not tax increases.

This whole lets kill America for the rich is all one sided brought to you by republicans.

What's your complaint America refused to gut social security to keep tax cuts for the richest?

I've come to ignore the "raising taxes on the rich" mantra you liberals throw out there like so much of your crap. You use that statement like a homing beacon... there is no meaning behind it. It's so overused that the effectiveness has zero value. We all have our favorite statements... and often times use them just to use them.

When you break down the statement... you have to be insunuating that there are NO rich democrats. No rich liberals... in fact, the way you throw it around the only rich people are republicans and you want them to pay.... and pay... and pay....

This is how stupid that statement has become... and anyone that uses it has the mentality of a jellybean.

Brianb, You bet me to it.

Anna,

The agency pointed to political reluctance to make cuts to entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security, and Republicans' refusal even to consider increasing revenues by, for instance, ending the Bush tax cuts.

Your just as guilty as the rest of them.

American First,

When did Obama put SS on the table? He actually had a budget with cuts to SS? Can you give me a link on that?

Thank you.

thetotas: American First, When did Obama put SS on the table.

"Putting SS on the table" was just another meaningless phrase Obama chanted during the debt ceiling debates. And as with most everything Obama says, it means what ever you want it to mean, and in the end, it meant nothing at all. Obama of course never presented a plan or one single detail on what he meant when he "Put SS on the table".

Thanks JoAnna,

I was wondering why I couldn't find any thing with substance on it.

this took me about 2 minutes to find:

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view/20110710boehner_holds_firm_on_no-tax_stance_pulls_plug_on_4_trillion_deficit-reduction_plan/

It is mentioned about 12 paragraphs down. I'm sure with your limited reading comprehension you stopped looking when it wasn't in the headline.

Tea Baggers unite in your OWNERSHIP of this fiasco. Come on, bend over, grab the boot straps and PULL!

Sorry folks, if I may weigh in. In my opinion Anna Molly is right.

The one thing that I can say with certainty, and not to be redundant cause I’ve said it over and over again, that if we had just let the Bush era tax cuts expire (that’s $4.5 trillion over 10 years) and had a clean debt ceiling bill, we would not be having this conversation. S&P wanted $4 trillion and there is is.

We brought this on ourselves…both sides…and if this silliness continues, look for another downgrade by all 3 rating agencies in a year to 18 months. The GOP needs to reign in their fringe and learn to compromise. The Democrats, simply, need to learn to show some leadership. The consequences of a failure to find a middle ground will be lead to more bad deals which will only bring the country down the now very short road to a double dip recession or worse. I’m betting nothing changes until the 2012 elections after the American people have had to say and a new Congress is sworn in.

S&P got this one right?

Ira,

I was watching Neil Cavuto this morning, ya I know its Fox, but I like him. He pretty much said the same thing and he added we deserved the downgrade.

I thought it was disingenuous of Anna to bold one point when actually both applied, to the country.

Just because you are the party of the rich, doesn't mean we are going to forget it. This kinda like the con that the debt was everybodies fault.

Pay and pay while taxes are at a 50 year low, we have asked so much of the rich, both the republicans and the democrats rich will have to pay, only the republicans are fighting to protect the poor rich.

Even someone like me with the mentality of a jellybean knows that driving our country into the ground just to make sure the rich never has their taxes raised is just down right stupid.

That must put you, somewhere less than a jellybean.

When the republicans agree to raise taxes on the rich, then you will never have to hear about it anymore. Until then I know republicans are trying to destroy our country with their pledge to Norquist who just happens to want to destroy our country.

Love the argument about who owns this.

Let's see...Obama caved on the extension of the Bush tax cuts...that's $4.5 trillion in revenues lost.

The GOP insists on almost $3 trillion in debt only cuts to raise the debt ceiling. No revenue.

Back and forth...

Now WE, the American people own it and it's our fault. Who voted in this Congress? The American people.

Who embraced the TP narrative? The American people.

Who is paying the price? The American people.

thetotas..

We do deserve it.

Think about it...we always had the ability to pay but the lingering question is do we want to?

How does that instill confidence in the Congress and government of the US.

....FOX...ewwww!

AM is always right. Get used to it. lol!!!

Ira - feel free to correct me if I am wrong but late last year when the right was holding out to have the tax cuts extended accross the board the numbers I heard discussed for those making over $250K/ year came in at about $800 billion over ten years. Your claim of $4.5 trillion over 10 years seems rather optimistic. Of course I don't recall what the revenues would be over 10 years for just those making less than $250k, so a link from a credible source would be appreciated by me.

The problem I see by going the route of raising taxes first is that polticians have historically failed to use it to pay down debt first and have instead opted to use it to justify spending more on special projects. The republican congress in the late 90's may have been the last congress that successfully applied the surplus from the tech boom towards paying down debt.

Ira,

Anna may not always be right, but I admire her wit. She can certainly hold her own.

american-2051576..

All credible sources that I've read have the loss in revenues from the Bush, now Obama cuts, at $400 to $450 billion a year.

Newly revised estimates from Citizens for Tax Justice show that the Bush tax cuts cost almost
$2.5 trillion over the decade after they were first enacted (2001-2010). Add the 2 year extension and you get the lost revenue amount.

Now...by law, they must pay down the debt...at least dollar for dollar for every increase in the debt ceiling.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/bushtaxcutsvshealthcare.pdf

You guys, except for Ira, of course, should all be more charitable. All you're trying to do is to blame the messenger who pointed out that S&P specifically pointed to not raising revenue as one of the reasons the debt ceiling bill was inadequate.

Go back and read my post carefully. I did NOT try to say it was the only reason. I had read the whole thing, too.

I just highlighted the part about revenue because I wanted to be sure you wouldn't be able to duck the implications of that.

President Obama DID offer entitlement cuts, as far as I understand it, and has been posted above. Thus, you can't blame him for that, even though I can, because I still don't think that entitlement cuts are fair or warranted under these circumstances.

On the other hands, Republicans held steadfastly to THEIR position that there would be no revenue increases, making them much more rigid, and thus at least somewhat more culpable than the President.

And then, of course, we have John Boehner's statement that HE got 98 percent of what HE wanted.

At the time he said it, everyone was saying that Republicans had won and Democrats had lost. But ever since then, as the market imploded, all of you who gloated have been running away from it like it was a burning house. Which it probably is.

It's the natural thing to do, so I don't blame you.

Just don't blame me for pointing it out.

And thank you, Ira. If I didn't think it would make you blush, I would say you were a prince.

Oh, go ahead and blush. ;-)

Anna Molly...

i m κοκκινίζοντας

Είσαι το πιο έξυπνο άτομο εδώ.

Έτσι είναι εύκολο να συμφωνήσω μαζί σας

Γι 'αυτό δεν πρέπει ποτέ να αμφιβάλετε για τον εαυτό

Have fun with that!!!!

Now I'm the one blushing.

You will forgive me for disagreeing with you just this once.

Otherwise, it's always my pleasure, Ira.

Ira - thank you for clarifying that the numbers you formulated were for the bush tax cuts across the board at all income levels. Really sounds like they should have been cut across the board long before their new expiration date of jan 2013.

q

President Obama did not destroy your nest egg, your cute little tea friends holding America hostage did that for you.

american first - thank you so very much by proving that obama is nothing but a lackey of the tea party, after all, who signed the bill into law?

Such leadership... Threatening vetoes, passing off negotiations to joltin' joe biden, throwing joe under the bus by saying what a reaonable plan the gang of 6 had, then moving to reid to come up with a compromise plan to what the house offered. He just can't make up his mind now can he?

The tea baggers forced this cuts only plan while holding a gun to the head of America.

Therefore the tea baggers own this economy. Boner was on the air bragging how he got 98% of what he wanted because he knew we couldn't afford to default.

Obama was no lackey he was more like the hostage negotiator.

This unholy alliance to never raising taxes on the richest again caused the markets to dive and also caused the downgrading of our AAA rating. "America is not serious about the debt problem without raising revenue" was the part that stuck in my mind.

Just what party was it fighting to raise revenue?

Hey American First

You can cram that "hostage" bull sh-t where the sun don't shine!! There is no denying this administration is an epic failure and here's the proof, but you can spin it and deflect it all you what but is still doesn't change the facts.

This downgrade of our rating happened on his watch, and all the rest of us poor slobs will have to pay for his utter incompetence!!

I don't have any little friends in the tea party, but they sure do scare the h-ll out of you liberals!!

Yea... change you can believe in!!

You know as well as I do that the whole debt ceiling was a hostage situation. We took a normal process and turned it into the tea party going to destroy American if they don't get there way.

The tea party owns this incompetence. Spin it all you want, but America watched and was not impressed with the tea party.

The tea party put a gun to the head of the American people to demand never raising taxes on the richest again.

Yes the stupidity of the tea party scares me. No compromise, my way or the highway, we are willing to blow America away for what we want, and to he!! with everyone else. (except the rich)

As long as the republican party refuses to raise taxes on the richest in American, nobody believes they care about the debt ceiling. They only care about the rich and keeping those tax cuts.

I very sorry the truth upset you so. In truth the republican party are domestic terrorist and have announced they plan on doing it again the next debt ceiling.

McConnel said the debt ceiling was a hostage worth taking. If the republicans acknowledge they were taking a hostage, who are you to deny it?

american first - political compromise has always been based on one party holding what the other party wants as an incentive to obtain compromise. Call it whatever you want, the fact reamins that it has been a part of politics for century's

Wonder what the attraction the left has with raising taxes, the obama (bush) tax cuts are scheduled to expire in 17 months.

I wonder how much debt will be added in 17 months for the tax cuts? Tea party the cuts are adding debt. I forgot, it is alright to add to the debt if the money is going to the rich.

When one party can claim getting 98% of what they wanted, where is the compromise? Compromise is generally thought of as each party getting close to 50/50 split.

The reason there was no compromise is that Democrats didn't want to destroy American and the tea people were more that willing to let America be destroyed. You call that holding what the other party wants?

A guy is holding your baby, ready to drop it off the roof if you don't give tax cuts to the richest. Sounds like compromise to me. The guy was just holding what the other party wanted.

Why would the right hold on so dearly to tax cuts scheduled to expire in 17 months?

If you love America, vote for any Democrat 2012

First American,

We took a normal process and turned it into the tea party going to destroy American if they don't get there way.

Its a normal process to borrow money, knowing in eight months you will do it again? Are you kidding me? That's just messed up thinking.

I for one am glad the Tea Party Movement came along. Just think 3 years ago I never gave it a second thought, but now I do.

Thank you Tea Party!

well said totas!

american first, compromise is about getting the job done, and not necessarily always a 50/50 split. To bad obama didn't take his own debt commision to heart back in jan 2011 to start a compromise deal. Why is it he always waits to the last minute and then wants to hurry things up as time grows short?

Priceless,...the Teapublicans threw their breakfast on the floor, refused to get dressed and when the parents finally got the mess cleaned, the clothes on and the children to school,...the kiddos want to bitch and moan that their parents made them LATE.

You guys really are hysterical. I'd laugh if you weren't so pathetic AND predictable. I sure hope Perry adds this to his prayer vigil. I am CERTAIN that will be just as effective.

Thanks American 2051576

What they need to do is get things going. Get this new commission working, bring them back from vacation. This bull about waiting to the last minute is ridicules! I want it online for everyone to read then take a vote on it. What ever happen to transparency? No more last minute deals.

Hell they dont even know what they are voting on.

Clara,

What's predictable is your response. Nothing new to add just the same old insults. The one I really like is I'd laugh if it weren't so , yada yada yada.

Bash the Tea Party all you want, doesn't change a thing. You haven't a clue on what they represent, or maybe you do and that's why you are so full of hate.

Times are changing so either piss or get off the pot.

Clara,

To accomplish the goal, Obama had been willing to consider about $3 trillion in spending cuts, including changes in the Social Security and Medicare programs that had alarmed many liberal Democrats.

I guess you are right I have limited reading comprehension, I went through it many times and I still dont see him committing to cuts to Social Security and Medicare programs. Also, I didnt see how much he was willing to cut. He said including changes to the two, but I dont know what they are.

Can you give me a link for more detail?

Thanks

Clara the tea party is having a hard time accepting responsibility and seeing themselves as others see them. I had to go back and read your post Clara and could see no hate. Ridicule maybe, not hate.

totals we are well aware that the tea party stands for never raising taxes on the richest again. We know that they are willing to destroy America to get their way. They want us to continue the same, the most stupid mistakes in the bush years of unfunded tax cuts and unfunded wars that got us in debt in the first place.

Then you want to tell us they care about the debt.

Times are changing, more people every day become aware that the republican tea party cares just for the rich and not at all for our country.

Amercian First

You give the Tea Party a lot of credit , they have been around for what, three years and already they have so much control over our government. Please.

After the nov 2010 elections and the debt debacle, looks like the left needs a little rebranding themselves.

Minors?

Yeah.

"Bush" Leaguers!

rudy - it has always taken two to tango, three if you want to reference the gieco commercial.

Perhaps you and other FR libs need to pull your own heads out of your azz to see how the WH and congress have become dysfunctional since 2008.

The congress has been dysfuncitional since 2000. The republicans before they became born-again fiscal conservatives spend 8 years spending our country into oblivion. Unfunded tax cuts, unfunded wars and drove our debt higher and higher until we elected a Democrat.

Suddenly the republicans and tea party found God and the fear of the debt that the republicans drove up.

What is the magic plan for the debt that the republicans created, let's blame Obama and keep the unfunded tax cuts and the unfunded wars that created the debt in the first place.

I know it's dark where you have your head. I also realize it is hard to judge others when you can't see. Come on out there is a whole world outside the censored news you have been listening too.

unfunded tax cuts??? Now there is an oxymoron!.

Yes, suddenly the right saw the light on the spending excesses of the past. Don't know abouit finding God though, after all that is an individual thing for each of us.

Since you claim to have such a vision, why not look up how our historical debt has climbed since the 60's, L or R didn't matter, even clinton added about $1.1 trillion to the debt. and then look at the historical events that took place at the same time.

Sad that you are blind american first. The stench you smelled should have been an obvious clue as to where your head is.

Perhaps now that S&P has slapped us up against the head obama and company will stop with the rhetoric and do something in a bipartisan way. Wonder if reid will have the senate come up with a compromise bill to what the house submitted for a FY 2012 budget?

BTW, thanks for pointing out to all of us that your knowledge of congress only goes back to 2000 and that the democrats had nothing to do with it.

When you have to borrow money to give tax cuts that our country can not afford what would you call it. The money we borrowed got added to the debt to a tune of 2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS so far.

Clinton at the end of his term with the tax increases and our governement starting to grow he did not have to raise the debt ceiling for the first time in I don't know how many years. It meant we were headed in the right direction. They were predicting that in 10 years we would have our debt paid off. That is why I only took it back to 2000 because our government seemed to be headed in the right direction at that time.

Then bush and the republicans felt it was more important to borrow money for tax cuts than pay down the debt with the money the taxes would bring in.

My point is it didn't start in 2008.

Two reasons I noticed were the lack of seriousness about the debt because their were no revenue increases and the political atmosphere of no compromise adds to uncertainty in future legislation.

You already got 98% of what you wanted, somehow you act like you are the victim here instead of America. Your 98% is exactly what will drive America into a depression and you act like I don't see what is going on.

Come January 2012 the tea-cession will begin in earnest when the republicans throw 14 million people off unemployment with almost no jobs to be had.

Missy TX - A-Men. As a Christian minister I find my brethren on the so-called Right and Left, a little different in their indignation, words and actions about many things compared to the example that Jesus showed in the Word. Either ALL of the Word is true or none of it is. Jesus always looked at the 360. He always left room for a person to "come unto me" and not having to prove themselves to others - even His disciples. Rick Perry, like George W or Barack Obama (whom I unashamedly support) is a man. I don’t trust him. He is not a governor for all the people of Texas – and that is clear. So, I want him to run only if he gives up his governorship because then he won’t be governor nor president. Each person has his own destiny to answer to the Lord. My prayer is that we judge not but pray for workers to the harvest. The US economy (and the world for that matter), of which Barack Obama is the chief executive (for all of you Christians out there we are still subject to authority, our government, which He created) needs our prayer and help. If we aren’t doing (faith without works is dead) something to help, then we (regardless of what faith you are from) are the problem.

Calling the kettle black are we missy? Seems that you have your own brand of spin going, sad that the FR libs have nothing to say except to slam the right and please do try to keep up with current events. Didn't the senate and obama sign off on the compromise bill on the debt ceiling and budgetary cuts? So they do share in any consequences, good or bad. Ignore me at your peril and if you think I spew misinformation it should really be simple to prove it to be wrong. As for Christ spitting I think his actions and his rhetoric was more than enough to make God's point known. Spitting would have probably been counterproductive.

BTW - missy, seems that you are the first one to have brought up perry on this thread. one to have brought up perry.

Mitchie pooh - not from texas and I know little about perry, but didn't God through Christ have something to say about leadership? Didn't proverbs have something to say about, as steel sharpens steel so does one man sharpen another? Seems clear that God through Christ didn't say that opposing discourse shouldn't be made, for doesn't that also sharpen man? As you say, a 360 approach...

BTW mitchie pooh, no poltician is above reproach and no polticain has ever been elected with the clear support of all those voting. Washington may very well have been the only one. Dissension will always be there, as you say we are all human.

"Ignor me at your peril." I am not sure who died and made you King of First Read.

I don't care how rightous you think you are, it doesn't make you right. Your post seem put together with one sided news like you have been getting censored news. That could be why you weren't taken seriously by some. Me I like to inform the faux challenged.

american first - think about it, I am sure the answer will amaze you, and it has nothing to do with being king, righteous or receiving news from think progress or any other so called censored news.

Just think logically as to what "ignore me at your peril" really means. Hint - It isn't about me.

BTW - I see that you couldn't answer specifically to other references I made/asked.

Please do try to do better next time, I do enjoy challenges as time permits.