WOW!!!

The Boehner-McConnell debt ceiling plan passes in the House with OVERWHELMING AND BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

Including yes votes from the top three Dems in the House: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer, and Assistant Democratic Leader Jim Clyburn.

Still, it ain’t over until it’s over. I’m reserving judgment until Harry and Barry do their parts today. They could still screw this thing up.

Of course, Joe “Gaffe” Biden has to step on his johnson once again, calling Republican’s “terrorists” and then lying about it to the press:

FromPolitico:

Biden was agreeing with a line of argument made by Rep. Mike Doyle (D-Pa.) at a two-hour, closed-door Democratic Caucus meeting.

“We have negotiated with terrorists,” an angry Doyle said, according to sources in the room. “This small group of terrorists have made it impossible to spend any money.”

Biden, driven by his Democratic allies’ misgivings about the debt-limit deal, responded: “They have acted like terrorists.”

Biden’s office initially declined to comment about what the vice president said inside the closed-door session, but after POLITICO published the remarks, spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff said: “The word was used by several members of Congress. The vice president does not believe it’s an appropriate term in political discourse.” (How’s THAT for a “non-denial denial”?? LMAO!!!!)

Biden later denied he used that term in an interview with CBS.

“I did not use the terrorism word,” Biden told CBS Evening News anchor and managing editor Scott Pelley.

Earlier in the day, Biden told Senate Democrats that Republican leaders have “guns to their heads” in trying to negotiate deals.

Yesterday the House passed the new Debt Ceiling Bill by a vote of 269 to 161 with 174 Republicans supporting the bill and 95 Democrats. Today the Senate votes on the same Bill and then off to the White House for President Obama’s signature. Rep. Boehner said yesterday on TV that now it is time to get back to the work of creating Jobs. What am I missing here, when have they started doing anything about jobs? Is this a top secret plan they have developed that they are hiding?? Ok Mr. Boehner where are the jobs you claimed you are currently working on?? Right, I will believe it when I see it but not holding my breath.

Ok, this new Debt Ceiling Bill has basically two parts.

The first $1 Trillion in cuts will come from non-military discretionary programs. The second $1.5 Trillion which is supposedly going to be some type of negotiated cuts will have to included entitlements and the DOD. There is not enough left on the discretionary side to achieve this $1.5 Trillion so they will have to hit entitlements unless we have increases in revenues that will offset some of the $1.5 Trillion in cuts. I spoke about this yesterday in that we need both spending cuts and we need to increase our revenues. I would like to see a targeted Jobs Bill, similar but bigger, to the Infrastructure Jobs Bill that the GOP/TP blocked in the Senate. Look, until we get the revenue piece of this equation installed into this Bill it just is not going to work in the long haul. Just about every leading economist of note on both sides say that we must have a revenue component.

This new debt ceiling bill does achieve the primary goal of avoiding a catastrophic default and maybe a degrading of our Debt Rating as well. But this bill has the potential for some very nasty results that should give us all some concern.

There is this Super Commission of 6 Democrats and 6 Republicans that are supposed to work together. Well McConnell and Boehner already said they are going to stack their side with 6 GOP/TP people that have sworn a sacred vow to not raise revenues. Probably some of the same people that replaced their oath when they were sworn in with the Norquist oath instead. I would then anticipate that the democrats will stack their side with people who are against any reform or cuts to Entitlements. Somebody explain to me how this is going to be a functional entity to move this country forward?? If no deal by the commission we have those triggers to take care of it for us. What they basically do is make the cuts for us, problem they are so DRACONIAN that we would welcome the Ryan Bill as an improvement. The democrats face a huge penalty in cuts to Medicare and the GOP/TP faces huge cuts to DOD, if they do not get their act together. The powers to be felt this would somehow make them play nice. I do not think so since one party was already willing to destroy the economy and the credit worthiness of this country. Do not think they will not pull another “hostage” tactic come November 23^rd. You can bet on it.

Mr. Robert Greenstein of CBPP has probably the most detail analysis of this bill to date please read this article as it does give a good representation. http://www.cbpp.org/files/8-1-11bud-stmt.pdf

Now here is the problem with this whole contrived (made up) crisis;

1. It was never about the Debt Ceiling at all, it was nothing more than a planned and staged attack on the Federal Government

2. It really does very little even on cutting spending as most of the spending cuts happen in the future near the end of the decade

3. There are no revenue offsets to reduce the spending cuts as economist say we need to make this work in the long haul

4. There are no guarantees that future Congresses will just toss this in the garbage

5. The voting was rigged to allow weak candidates (both sides) to vote how they think their district feel. If their districts did not like this bill they got to vote no. If they supported the bill they got to vote yes, kind of made this whole thing smoke and mirrors.

6. It does not move this country forward one foot; in fact it may very well cost jobs and stall the economy further

Feisty:

Rigging elections has always been a GOP main stay. Look at Ohio and Florida last Presidential election.

When you have a party that cannot win on their ideas, because they either have none or the ones they have suck, they always resort to trying to fix the elections.

Just look at all the States changing the laws on voter registration as well.

They (GPO/TP) are floundering and they know it.

Presiden Obama in 2012.

Watching Rep. Gabby Giffords on the House floor last night, makes politics worth our time & energy!

What a exceptional moment...

Good to see Obama back on the campaign trail. Here are some of his economic successes he can campaign on:

A) Consumer spending in the U.S. unexpectedly dropped in June for the first time in almost two years as a slump in hiring caused households to retrench. Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-02/consumer-spending-in-u-s-unexpectedly-falls-for-first-time-in-two-years.html

B) Despite predictions of higher interest rates because of the nation's $14.3 trillion debt, Treasury yields have been falling steadily since Feb. 8, when the bellwether 10-year T-note yielded 3.72%. It closed Monday at 2.75%, the lowest since November. Source: http://www.usatoday.com/money/markets/2011-08-01-bond-yields-interest-rates_n.htm Continuing: Lower yields are not so much about the debt as they are about economic data," says Anthony Valeri, fixed income investment strategist for LPL Financial. When the economy slows, demand for loans slows, too — which means that investors accept lower yields and lenders offer lower interest rates.

C) In the latest economic data, U.S. consumer spending fell unexpectedly in June to post the first decline in nearly two years as incomes barely rose, the government reported. Futures barely budged after the data. Source: http://news.yahoo.com/wall-street-ends-down-023725573.html

D) 9.2% and rising unemployment

E) $4/gal gasoline

F) 14 million unemployed, 10 million under-employed

G) Trillion dollar deficits

Might be time for Obama to switch into "Hope and Change" and "Blame Bush" mode.

Why isn’t the FEC investigating this?

__________________________________________

Umm.... because the Federal Election Commission doesn't have any jurisdiction over state elections??

LOL!!!

From the FEC website: In 1975, Congress created the Federal Election Commission (FEC) to administer and enforce the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) - the statute that governs the financing of federal elections.

Yes 95 democrats voted in favor of the bill. They (GOP/TP) only had 174 votes of the 216 they needed. The Democrats put politics aside and moved this forward.

Now it goes to the Senate and it appears the democrats are going to get support there from the GOP/TP. Some are saying the vote my be 65/70 or more to pass.

Finally they, the politicians, are doing something. I do not like this Debt Ceiling bill for the most part but it is a whole lot better than the alternative.

Anybody else catch House Democratic Minority Whip, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD), say that , looking back, he wished President Obama had simply embraced the Plan of his own debt commission?

I got a real chuckle out of that one...

Rigging elections has always been a GOP main stay

Once upon a time, at least they would attempt to conceal it!

They NO longer bother to don the 'sheep' suit...

Morning Feisty-

Great post as usual. Hopefully this afternoon we can begin to move our Country forward again. Our World standing has become pathetic, thanks to the TPOTTY.

From the FEC website: In 1975, Congress created the Federal Election Commission (FEC) to administer and enforce the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) - the statute that governs the financing of federal elections

Thanks Joey!

And thanks for reaffirming your 'cool' with election fraud - I wouldn't expect anything less from you! ;o)

Lie - cheat & steal, the 'great' Teapublican way...

Anybody else catch House Democratic Minority Whip, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD), say that , looking back he wished President Obama had simply embraced the Plan of his own debt commission?

Would it have done any good? Simpson-Bowles called for tax increases and we know how it would have gone for any Republican supporting the commission...

"Uh, Congressman, it's Grover Norquist on Line 2."

The Tea Party has won this debt debate on so many levels you need a scorecard to keep track. But this might be their most impressive achievement: it sets a new precedent that any future increases in the debt ceiling will need to be "paid for" with corresponding spending reductions. That's huge. Senator Rob Portman a former OMB director, has said that if we cut a dollar of spending for every dollar we raise the debt ceiling, we'll balance the budget in 10 years. That's called putting the country on a more fiscally sustainable path, and it wouldn't have happened without the Tea Party. Oh, and did you notice Senator Portman did NOT say we need to increase taxes in order to get to that 10 year balance?

The Dems have been thoroughly routed, plain and simple. Their big government spending philosophy was resoundingly rejected by the electorate in 2010, and that rejection was definitively implemented by the new wave of politicos that came to power in that election. All the Dems got left is demeaning remarks about the foes that gave them a shellacking: FR, this board, the MSM, even the president himself can only flap their gums about those wild and crazy Tea Partiers. What they won't tell you is that it was the Bystander-in-Chief's extraordinary refusal to get serious about the debt issue until the last minute that brought us to this artificial brink in the first place. But that's OK, the Tea Party stepped in to fix that.

Feisty, glad you posted this. The media spent almost zero time on it yesterday. The republican groups are getting sloppy these days. The Koch Bros. Americans for Properity election fraud proves that republican legislation demanding photo ID to vote has nothing to do with stopping the miniscule voter fraud that occurs and everything to do with suppressing certain voters ability to participate in our Constitutional right to vote. The GOP realizes they cannot always win legitimately so stack the decks to eliminate as many democratic voters as possible.

Welcome to America. Our military fights for the rights of other countries citizens to vote but we have one party that fights against it here.

Is there hope for Anna Molly?

From yesterday ……

Without jobs, there is no chance in Hades that we will reach the revenue numbers we evidently need to prevent entitlement cuts.

First, it is interesting that liberals’ focal point, even after 2 ½ years of prolonged agony is not jobs, but entitlements …..

And second - Wow …. Is reality starting to sink in for some? Are some starting to realize private–sector jobs pay for the entitlements …… are some starting to understand that private-sector jobs are the horse that pulls the entitlement cart of goodies?

And from what I see here, there is no incentive for job creation,

Obama never was focused on jobs, right out of the box he was focused on his liberal agenda, oddly enough the Mother of All Entitlements in order to create a more dependent society. He focused on ObamaCare - not jobs. In fact he did the worst thing he could for jobs by passing it.

Sound like a rant?

Consider that from the time Obama took office in January 2009, until he passed ObamaCare - the private-sector was adding an average of 67,600 jobs a month with a high in April of 229,000 NET JOBS – the month Obama got his ObamaCare passed. After passage, May fell to 48,000 and since a little over a month after its passage - the private-sector has averaged 6,500 jobs a month!

UNDER OBAMA, JOB CREATION IS LESS THAN ONE TENTH THE AVERAGE OF WHAT IT WAS - BEFORE OBAMA PASSED HIS OBAMACARE.

Same with FinRef – how could 2,700 new pages of new big government regulations ever help lending? Stimulus? Obama took care of Big Government, Big Business, Big Unions, Wall Street …… too bad none of them ever create real, sustainable jobs, huh? Never have.

Bottom-line is that OBAMA HAS DONE EVERYTHING TO DISINCENTIVISE JOB CREATION.

no money to do it,

The government went broke proving that government cannot create jobs.

The good news is that is that it doesn’t matter, the private-sector is sitting on trillions, Wall Street is flush with money, people are trying to find someplace to put their money – there is money, and the people that create jobs have it.

The bad news is that costs are exploding with ObamaCare, soaring cost of fuel due to Obama’s wanton destruction of our energy industry, soaring inflation costs due to Obama’s destruction of the value of the dollar with QE2, Obama’s destruction of confidence with the out of control spending by an incompetent government, tax threats everyday by Obama, all the indicators are horrible, worst recovery in history ….. who in their right mind would start hiring, start a business with this guy in charge?

and only a snowball’s chance that significant numbers of jobs will be created at any time prior to the 2012 election.

Funny, that is exactly what no joe, JoAnnaSmith and many others have be saying all along – even explaining the reasons why, what has worked in the past, why Obama’s policies have failed in the past …… is it finally starting to sink in?

Of course not, but deep down you know it is true – you just acknowledged it.

And it is true – things are not going to get better and your beloved Obama is done unless he pulls a “Clinton.” Obama is too narcisissistic, too clueless for that so …..yea not until the 2012 election / not until we have someone in the White House who understands and actually cares about job creation.

Hopefully, all this is starting to sink in for those that don’t pay attention or are blinded by their political beliefs.

Why is Congress letting the continued partial shutdown of the FAA take place? Now I hear that the House will be taking a 5 week recess. So, we have thousands of these workers not working on projects and collecting 200 million tax dollars lost a week, due to the Congress not wanting to do their job.

I tell you with the latest stunts pulled, this Congress is the worst Congress, that I have seen in my life time, and we need to replace these ruling Republican members in the next election.

"A Satan sandwich," says congressman Emanuel Cleaver. "With some Satan fries on the side," adds Nancy Pelosi.

That's their take on the debt ceiling bill, served to them by those evil Tea Partiers who Biden and other Dems characterized as "terrorists." Anyone else notice the irony of that kind of inflammatory rhetoric used on the same day Gabby Giffords makes an unexpected appearance to cast her vote? We missed you Gabby, welcome back to the mud pit.

let us not forget how we got here people. The right continues to ignore their culpability in this mess, still tryingto pin all the blame on President Obama. This is an outright lie.

ECONOMIC DOWNTURN AND BUSH POLICIES CONTINUE

TO DRIVE LARGE PROJECTED DEFICITS

http://www.cbpp.org/files/5-10-11bud.pdf

Tax Cuts, War Costs Do Lasting Harm to Budget Outlook

“Some commentators blame major legislation adopted in 2008-2010 — the stimulus bill and other recovery measures and the financial rescues — for today’s record deficits. Yet those costs pale next to other policies enacted since 2001 that have swollen the deficit. Those other policies may be less conspicuous now, because many were enacted some years ago and they have long since been absorbed into CBO’s and other organizations’ budget projections”.

“Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. [7] By 2019, we estimate that these two policies will account for almost half — nearly $10 trillion — of the $20 trillion in debt that will be owed under current policies.[8] (The Medicare prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 also will substantially increase deficits and debt, but we are unable to quantify these impacts due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues, which will account for less than $2 trillion (less than 10 percent) of the debt at that time. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers”.

“Without the economic downturn and the fiscal policies of the previous Administration, the budget would be roughly in balance over the next decade. That would have put the nation on a much sounder footing to address the demographic challenges and the cost pressures in health care that darken the long-run fiscal outlook.[9]”

Look is took us 10 years to get into this mess and it is going to take a long time to get out of it. We need spending cuts and revenue increases. Virtually every leading economist from both sides say so. If we do not do both, nothing will work and things will continue to slide downhill.

The Tea Party has won this debt debate on so many levels you need a scorecard to keep track.

Really Mr. Me First Bill?

Sorry but I couldn't read any further - after your first sentance...

Winners? Seriously?

They were offered over 4 trillion dollars in deficit reduction by President Obama and settled for half!

This is what's considered a WIN these days on the right?

Well, okay then... lol

PS: They demonstrated they don't give a rats a@@ about spending cuts - it was all about domestic terrorism!

Plain & Simple!

Netanyahu is coming around to President Obama's suggestion of border with Palestine?

JERUSALEM, Aug. 2 (UPI) -- Israel will resume peace talks based on its 1967 borders if the Palestinian Authority stops seeking U.N. Palestinian state recognition, Israel's leader said.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has said his organization would abandon its efforts for a statehood vote if Israel agrees to the 1967 borders and the right of Palestinian refugees to return to the new Palestinian state. Israel will agree to both of these terms, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said late Monday.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/08/02/Netanyahu-1967-border-OK-with-conditions/UPI-37421312268400/#ixzz1TsWfkFwy

"In his speech, Obama said, "We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states. The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves and reach their full potential in a sovereign and contiguous state."

Mitt Romney said "President Obama has thrown Israel under the bus." Tim Pawlenty called Obama's statement "a mistaken and very dangerous demand."

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpolitics/2011/05/obamas_israels.html

________________________________________

Romney has no imagination, no independent thoughts. He thinks nothing out. He has zero answers for anything.

I really don't want to be cynical, but the artificial drama of all of this, coupled with the highly suspicious timing of our looming "default" to coincide so neatly with a Congressional recess, makes me wonder what this was really all about.

Me? I'm still just sitting here, waiting for Godot. Godot is a lot like Congress, if you think about it.

What does Godot do?

"He does nothing, sir."

But he sure can make a show out of it.

You've done it again, Da Noid.

You are misrepresenting the debt commission's Plan with regard to revenue.

Bowles-Simpson proposes to overhaul the existing tax code by eliminating special-interest giveaways and loopholes, and creating a flatter, fairer system in order to stimulate economic growth. That is how it raises revenue. It actually lowers individual and corporate rates.

The $800 billion in revenue increases that President Obama and Speaker Boehner agreed to as part of the failed "grand bargain" was to result from the reform of the tax code...as with Bowles-Simpson.

You are misinformed.

Steny Hoyer is not.

You should love Bowles-Simpson, Da Noid...

It makes the Bush Tax cuts disappear.

Read their Plan.

You'll find it enlightening.

Bill, Fairfax, VA: Anyone else notice the irony of that kind of inflammatory rhetoric used on the same day Gabby Giffords makes an unexpected appearance to cast her vote?

"Terrorists", "Gun to the head", "Hostage takers".

You expect this rhetoric from the lefty-loons around this blog, but not from the Liberal politicians. They should know better, but yet the Democrats think it's just fine to behave like they do. And now the rhetoric has made its way to Biden. What a pathetic display by the Democrats.

Me First Bill must have missed the fact that so many Tea Partiers voted against the bill it had no hope of passing without Democratic support.

Think maybe now we'll stop hearing about how corporate jets and oil companies are the reason students can't get a loan, and a baby might go hungry tonight? Obama and his spin team will have to cook up some new lies to tell.

"Me First Bill must have missed the fact that so many Tea Partiers voted against the bill it had no hope of passing without Democratic support."

Nope, John B. misses the fact that the debate was pushed in one direction by virtue of Tea Party influence. They did not get 100% of what they wanted, but that does not obviate the FACT that the final bill leans heavily towards their position. Deal with it.

John B;

How true 95 democrats put politics aside and once again saved the collective butts of the GOP/TP. At least now with 95 Democrats votes their attempt to try and take all the credit has evaporated. Same will be true from the other side in the Senate since we do not have 60 votes, we do have the majority but that means nothing in the Senate where the minority rules.

Back to square one.

This was such a gross waste of time and tax payer dollars.

As CBS's Bob Schieffer said a couple Sundays ago, he almost wished the FAA had shutdown completely so these legislators would have to spend hours riding the bus to get home. He's right, it would give them time to think about what real governing means instead of the ideological purity version.

A little analysis from the money experts about how this so-called "deal" will affect jobs --

-- it won't.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/01/news/economy/debt_ceiling_jobs_outlook/index.htm?iid=HP_Highlight

"I would say this will have little effect if any," said Jeff Joerres, Chairman and CEO of staffing firm ManpowerGroup (MAN, Fortune 500). "It's nice to clear one worry off the desk, but there are a lot of other things to worry about.

"At the end of the day, demand trumps all, and right now demand is sluggish, regardless of industry," he said.

Demand trumps all?

Surprise, surprise.

Paul Samuelson would be so proud.

And as for demand --

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/02/news/economy/personal_income_spending/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Personal spending fell 0.2% during the month, according to data released Tuesday by the Commerce Department.

It marked the biggest monthly decline in consumer spending since September 2009 and fell short of economists' forecasts for a slight increase of 0.1%.

"It's consistent with this flat spot we're seeing in the economy," said Paul Bellew, chief economist at Nationwide. "Consumers retrenched underneath all the pressures between rising gas prices and continued housing challenges."

Meanwhile, personal income rose 0.1% in June.

Consumers chose to hold on to the extra cash, pushing up the personal savings rate. Savings as a percentage of disposable income rose to 5.4% from 5.0% in May. Americans saved a total of $620.6 billion during June, compared with $581.7 billion the prior month.

No demand, no jobs. No jobs, no demand.

How many times do we have to repeat this?

Feisty and the rest, How soon you all forgot that Kennedy also rigged or should I say bought his election.

While President Obama's numbers go down the tea baggers go down even further. Sure looks like a win for them to me.

The people are pissed because President Obama did not hold his ground. But how could he when you have a Party that thinks destroying the US Government, the economy and our Credit Status is the only thing important to them and will not compromise? He had to bite the bullet and take the heat. He said he would and he did. The GOP/TP on the other hand just continued saying NO and running away from meetings.

That is not a Party of leadership in my book and they will pay for it on 2012.

Just look at the nitwit Romney. He gets in the game after it has already been played and the score is in. Yeah, more GOP/TP examples of leadership.

Bill Fairfax VA: Nope, John B. misses the fact that the debate was pushed in one direction by virtue of Tea Party influence.

John B. misses lots of facts. Notice he's not talking about the violent rhetoric the Democrats/Liberals are engaged in today, the same day Ms. Giffords returned to the House floor. Back in January John was one of the Lefties around here incorrectly admonishing the Right for their rhetoric causing the shootings at Ms. Giffords political event in Arizona. Now the Left, including Biden, use even more violent rhetoric, and people like John B are silent about it.

How soon you all forgot that Kennedy also rigged or should I say bought his election.

Proof please!

"Rigging elections has always been a GOP main stay."

An unabashed insult to untold numbers of dead people in DEMOCRATIC Chicago.

@ Bill and JoAnna ~

I seem to be missing the connection between Gabby Giffords and the rhetoric used by Democrats.

I mean, surely, you are not suggesting that the guy who shot Gabby Giffords was ACTUALLY a right-wing terrorist, are you?

And surely, you are not suggesting that he was somehow encouraged by the radical right-wing rhetoric of hatred and violence spewed by, for example, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck, are you?

Or are you?

And here, all this time, you've been telling us that he was just your garden variety nut job with a gun.

Well, then. Do me a favor and save your phony outrage for the next time there's a REAL shooting, will you?

You should still have plenty in the tank since you didn't use any the last time.

"Nearly three-quarters of Americans offered a negative word to describe how they viewed the budget negotiations. The top words were 'ridiculous,' 'disgusting' and 'stupid.' Overall, nearly three-quarters of Americans offered a negative word.

Just 2 percent had anything nice to say."

That's from a WaPo/ABC poll a few days ago. Had they called me, I would have definitely been counted among that 2%. The process was not ridiculous, it was democracy in action. It was a process that tried mightily to come to some agreement on an issue where the two sides were miles apart. It was a process where a colossal clash of opposing points of view ultimately produced an acceptable outcome. And the outcome that was produced is a small step in the direction of regaining control of our fiscal future. So what's not to like?

This has been a debate well worth having, and one that was long overdue. And one that will continue to be front and center as the 2012 campaign heats up. It's been said many times that a party cannot govern when they only control one half of one third of the government. True, but Republicans were able to leverage the small piece they did control to get almost everything they wanted in the debt bill. But that was just the appetizer, real reform can only come with a Republican sweep of the presidency and the Congress in the next election. The stakes will be huge and the rhetoric no doubt will get nasty, but the 2012 debate will fundamentally be a clash between our two vastly different governing philosophies. And far from being 'ridiculous' that debate will likely determine the course of the country for years to come.

Impeach them all!! And would all you people quit being tools! That's all you are, tools to these politicians and you don't even realize it. YOU are part of the problem!

Feisty Redhead:

I’ve questioned many times, how LOW will the tea bagger’s GO & just when I thought they couldn’t stoop any lower they somehow manage to continually amaze me!

Another question is how low can the teabaggers go without the media ignoring it? As you know, the media cannot report on any facts that might put them in a bad light, because that would be liberal bias. I don't think there's any crime that the media aren't willing to cover up for them.

Sending out campaign literature telling people to vote after the election is over is an old Jim Crow Dixiecrat dirty trick that's now used by the Jim Crow Republicans. While the Republicans impose anti-democratic voter fraud laws to deal with a crime that barely exists, the real criminals are the Republicans with their voter suppression fraud -- a crime that goes largely unreported.

AM: I seem to be missing the connection between Gabby Giffords and the rhetoric used by Democrats

You miss a lot AM. You're as dense as they come.

With Gabby Giffords triumphant return yesterday, we recall President Obama's words during his time spent at others memorials in Arizona during the time of the shootings that occurred at Ms. Giffords public event. Mr. Obama stated we should "usher in more civility in our public discourse". Maybe Mr. Obama can have a talk with his VP and his party about that civility.

Do me a favor and save your phony outrage for the next time there's a REAL shooting, will you?

Sure. Like the phony shooting in Arizona last January.

Grow up Annie. You get more pathetic with each passing day.

@Navy

Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers”.

I'm confused Navy. You keep posting the same article day after day. I know you want the Bush/Obama tax rates changed back to the Clinton rates but are you calling for the repeal of Medicare-D?

BTW What does the President mean when he says he'll veto any extension of the current tax rates that expire in 2012?

1) This implies that an extension would pass the Democratically controlled Senate

2) This implies he will break his campaign promise that taxes will not rise on those earning less than 250K

Can someone clarify his statement?

I don't think there's any crime that the media aren't willing to cover up for them.

Thanks for the validation Houston!

I couldn't agree with you more! ;o)

Look back in 2 years, and you'll see that Obama and Dems may have slightly lost the debt battle today. However, they'll have won the war in the coming elections due to GOP rigid ideology, and unwillingness to compromise in running the government. The past few years, along with the coming tax fight will show just how out of touch the GOP really is with the American people. Their agenda is not and has never been to create jobs and help Americans. Their job is to create an economic environment conducive to open, unregulated markets, that makes a few, elite, rich company and stock holders more rich. Their social agenda only goes so far as to win them some right-wing votes, but when the rubber hits the road, they're immoral, greedy, and not interested in Christian politics.

@Cygnus

You may be right. My problem is that the Democrats have never came out with a plan that can fund their agenda. There is the "Peoples Budget" but that is not being advocated by the President or the Democratic leadership. The way I look at their proposals is that they promise a lot of benefits but have not come clean on how much it will cost. This is what Bush did with Medicare-D, create an entitlement with no plan to pay for it. That is why I consider Democrats and the last Republican Administration as more of the same.

Nasty Redhead: I answer your (stupid) question about "Why the Federal Election Commission isn't investigating a state election?" and the conclusion you draw is:

"And thanks for reaffirming your 'cool' with election fraud - I wouldn't expect anything less from you! ;o)"

Proving once again that you are a moron.

Have a nasty day!!

Anna Molly:

You are on a roll today. Great posts.

Same old talking points and lies from the right - nothing ever changes with them certainly not their failed ideas that got us here to begin with that they keep denying.

Bob - Post 1.15 - I don't know how it could be explained any better. It seems as though the liberals want to avoid all these issues about Obama. It's like they have grabbed on to Obama and decided he's the best thing since sliced bread. Unfortunately, Obama has an anti-capitalist agenda the liberals have signed on to. The engine that drives this country is business that produces revenue... the government doesn't produce anything. They rely on businesses and people for revenue so if the government is doing what it can to hamstring business, they are cutting off their noses to spite their face. It makes zero sense.

It is time for a change of course. What's going on in Washington simply isn't working. We need a business friendly government, one that promotes the return of workers to America and reduces regulations to help business instead of tying their hands.

Proving once again that you are a moron.

The idiot in Albany's silence on election fraud is deafening, however, not surprising...

So Joe, until you condemn it, we'll continue to believe you condone it...

Personal attacks is your 'go to' defense when you got NOTHING else! *yawn*

Alan, NJ-

If President Obama is reelected, and there is no interim overhaul of the tax code between now and November 2012, there is simply no way that President Obama will allow all of the Bush Tax cuts to expire.

During the lame-duck session after Election Day, 2012, the President will again extend the Bush-Obama tax cuts if the current tax code remains in place.

He will not take $450 billion out of the pockets of American consumers and out of the anemic U.S. economy.

Given the economic numbers we've seen the last two quarters, he can (but won't, obviously) actually argue that extending the tax cuts prevented the economy from sliding into contraction, Alan...and that therefore, it's the best thing he's done for the economy!

He'll probably even extend them if he's the biggest of the lame ducks after the 2012 election.

The idiot in Albany's silence on election fraud is deafening, however, not surprising...

So Joe, until you condemn it, we'll continue to believe you condone it...

___________________________________________

More moronic logic from the Nasty Redhead. Here's proof in her own words:

So Nasty, until you condemn child abuse, we'll continue to believe you condone it...

And... Have a nasty day!!!

Well Well...... again We have a loving consensus among the left here today, The Gimme Gimme Gang is out in full force.

Feisty Redhead:

I’ve questioned many times, how LOW will the tea bagger’s GO & just when I thought they couldn’t stoop any lower they somehow manage to continually amaze me!

I somehow believe that for the most part you amaze your self, a lot! I bet you spend a lot of time in front of the mirror "Mirror Mirror on the wall, who's the smartest of them all?" Of course its you Feisty....really come on who else could it be!

Feisty, JFK's 1960 campaign was the first election I worked in (as a teen volunteer). I remember it quite well, and some of the highlights are still very bright memories. Oddly enough, 20 years ago I worked in a public affairs consulting firm run by one of the key young men who orchestrated the JFK campaign - the dominant photo on the wall of the firm's conference room was of that (not any longer) young man seated next to Kennedy in the open Lincoln limousine driving through Los Angeles after he won the nomination.

In recent years, there have been several books about JFK that showed a different side of him - and of course many are quite hurtful to encounter. Among the various studies has arisen a reasonably well-documented claim that JFK's father Joseph Kennedy, against his son's wishes and quite possibly without JFK's advance knowledge, did pour money into some corruption of the Illinois voting. I believe that is still disputed, but we do know that without Illinois, JFK would have lost the election.

It isn't precisely typical of Democratic Party performance in elections - and the GOP has been quite guilty of election fraud for years.

Especially consider how the Reagan campaign rigged the 1980 election, by making a secret backdoor deal with the Iranians to hold the hostages until Reagan was inaugurated. That was clearly one of the most corrupt and outrageous electoral cheats in American history - even worse than the hanging chads of 2000.

"Tea party terrorists"

"Save the world as we know it"

"Republican Taliban"

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Looks like Obama, Pelosi and the Leftists NEVER LEFT the campaign trail

You can all scream about voter ID laws all you want and say that they aren’t necessary, BUT I live in St Clair County Il, and would welcome any type of voter ID law that can be passed. You may think the jokes about dead people voting in Illinois are a joke, but they aren’t. Here is an example of the voter fraud that occurs in Illinois, this was in 2004 and I would love to say things have changed but they haven’t, they seem to have gotten worse. Many of those who plead guilty in the following case, have won re-election to election boards and in East St Louis some of these people have been elected to even higher office.

Granted Voter ID laws wouldn’t help in this particular case of Voter Fraud, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt. So Fiesty you and others can stop pointing out the Koch brothers and their attempts at voter fraud and suppression, cause you have just seen proof, especially in Illinois that the democrats are just as guilty.

Accused Party Type

Official - Appointed

Accused Party Title

Precinct Committeeman

Court or Office

East St. Louis Illinois Democratic Party

Accused City

East St. Louis

Accused State

Illinois

City of Complaint

East St. Louis

State of Complaint

Illinois

Types of Misconduct

• Conspiracy
• Corruption
• Election Fraud

Website

madisonrecord.com/news/175416-powell-sentenced-to-21-months-in-prison-for-vote-buying

Rating of the Accused Party

0

Website 2

madisonrecord.com/news/contentview.asp?c=160636

Website 3

minx.cc/?post=110160

Website 4

ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Vote_fraud_in_Illinois

Four Plead Guilty To Democrat Vote Fraud In East St. Louis

I've worked elections in St. Clair County. As a graduate student I worked closely with both Gaffner for Congress campaigns in 1988 (special election and general election). We were up on Jerry Costello both times until the East St. Louis vote came in. It was taken for granted that the city vote was not clean.

Some things never change -- except now they are getting caught and prosecuted.
Leroy Scott Jr., 46; Lillie Nichols, 51; Terrance R. Stitch, 43; and his wife, Sandra Stith, 54; pleaded guilty Tuesday to one count each of vote-buying before U.S. District Judge David Herndon on Tuesday morning.

The East St. Louis Democratic Committee held organizational meetings on Oct. 13, 20 and 27, headed by Committee Chairman Charlie Powell and discussed strategy for maximizing the Democratic vote for president, Illinois Supreme Court justice and the St. Clair County Board chairman in the Nov. 2 election, according to the charges.

"During these organizational meeting, the need to pay voters for voting the 'Democratic ticket' during the Nov. 2 general election, and the amount which said voters should be paid, was discussed by Charles Powell and other precinct committeemen," the charges stated.

Powell denied Tuesday he ordered anyone to buy votes, but only to get voters to the polls on Election Day. He also acknowledged there was a chance he could face an indictment.

"Everything is possible," Powell said. "I don't have any judgment on it whatsoever."

Robert Sprague, who heads the St. Clair County Central Democratic Committee, could not be reached for comment.

Two days before the election, the charges allege Scott, Precinct 38 committeeman, received $1,200; Nichols, Precinct 29 committeeman, received $1,500; and Terrance Stith, Precinct 23 committeeman, received $2,000 from the St. Clair County Democratic Committee.

Sandra Stith worked the polls for her friend, Edna Mayes, Precinct 11th committeeman, and received $500, the charges stated.

The Stiths, Nichols and Scott admitted Tuesday that they paid voters between $5 and $10 for favorably casts ballots during the Nov. 2 election.

Here's hoping that this will encourage an honest vote and an honest count in one of the most dishonest election venues in the country.

UPDATE: Looks like there is even more.
The head of the East St. Louis Central Democratic Committee and others bought votes in a 2004 election that included hotly contested races for Illinois Supreme Court justice and St. Clair County Board chairman, according to federal indictments made public Wednesday.

Besides committee Chairman Charles Powell, the accused include Kelvin Ellis, director of regulatory affairs for the city, who was named in an earlier indictment that among other things accused him of trying to arrange the murder of a witness against him in a vote fraud investigation.

U.S. Attorney Ron Tenpas said some of the money used to sway the vote came from the St. Clair County Democratic Party, but he stressed that the indictments didn't indicate that county Democrats were aware the money was used for vote buying.

Wrong thing to say, Ron. The East St. Louis Democrat Party apparatus is almost exclusively black, while the St. Clair County Democrat party is mostly white. You are certainly going to have people start shouting "racism" over the failure to indict folks from the county Democrats, since you've implicitly cleared the white folks while indicting the black folks.

The indicted Democrats are:
The five charged in the indictment with conspiracy to commit election fraud are committeemen [Charles] Powell, 61; Jesse Lewis, 56; Sheila Thomas, 31; Kelvin Ellis, 55; and precinct worker Yvette Johnson, 46. Lewis, Thomas, Ellis and Johnson also are charged with election fraud.

Please note -- Powell is the chairman of the East St. Louis Democrats. The truly sad thing is that, for all their work suborning vote fraud, only one of the favored candidate won.
Only one of the "favored candidates" identified in the indictment was elected. That was County Board Chairman Mark Kern, who trailed Republican rival Steve Reeb by about 4,000 votes in the rest of the county but won by about the same number when ballots in East St. Louis were counted. The city has a separate election authority from the rest of the county.

Talk about your gang that couldn't shoot straight.

And that "down by 4000/up by 4000" move when the votes were counted looks really familiar to me -- the first Gaffner campaign I worked on went into East St. Louis up by 2500 votes and came out down by the same margin, costing us the election.

***

In East St. Louis, Ill, A federal jury… convicted the chairman of the city’s Democratic Party and four others of scheming to buy votes with cash, cigarettes and liquor last November. Prosecutors relied largely on secretly recorded audiotapes in which they say the accused could be heard talking about paying $5 per vote to get key Democrats elected. Charles Powell Jr., 61, the city’s Democratic Party chairman, was found guilty along with the city’s former director of regulatory affairs and three others. (AP)

East St. Louis vote buying case goes to trial
6/2/2005 12:56 PM
(Editor's note: The following report, submitted by Cal Skinner, is reprinted with permission from the Illinois Leader).

East St. Louis Democratic Committee chairman and former city councilman Charles Powell, Jr., three fellow elected Democratic precinct committeemen, and one Democratic precinct worker are on trial for vote buying in U.S. District Court.

The beneficiaries of the alleged scheme were Democrat Presidential candidate John Kerry, Illinois State Supreme Court candidate Gordon Maag and Mark Kern, the Democratic candidate for Chairman of the St. Clair County Board of Commissioners.

The Democrats won two out of three. Maag lost his race for a seat on the state's high court to Republican Lloyd Karmeier. None of the candidates have been implicated in any wrongdoing.

"The race for county board chairman was decided by East St. Louis votes," observed St. Clair County Board Member and Kern opponent Steve Reeb. "It was that close."

It used to be called "walking around money." Now, according to the St. Clair County Democratic Central Committee's reports to the State Board of Elections, it's called, "election expenses." $76,150 was reportedly paid to 51 individuals living in East St. Louis days before the 2004 election.

Cooperating voters were paid $5-$10 per vote, according to a report by the Belleville News-Democrat.

"Powell explained that the amount was based on multiplying the expected number of voters in the precinct times an amount of five dollars each," according to a FBI report obtained by the Belleville paper.

According to the indictment, Powell "explained that each Democratic precinct committeeman needed to determine how much he or she would pay voters in their own precinct." Powell allegedly asked them to turn in "election day budgets...requesting funds from the St. Clair County Democratic Committee to be used during the November 2, 2004 general election."

After discussing "these election day budget requests with members of the St. Clair County Democratic committee, the East St. Louis precinct committeemen received funds" from the county central committee "in most instance to the amount requested" on October 31st, according to one plea agreement.

Powell was a member of the East St. Louis city council until he was voted out of office in April. Two weeks before that election, he was indicted for vote fraud.

In late March three other Democratic precinct committeemen--Lillie Nichols, Leroy Scott, Jr., and Terrance Stith--pled guilty to "knowingly and willfully" paying or offering "to pay voters for voting" during a federal elections.

They agreed to render assistance that, if "found to be complete and thoroughly truthful" (underlining in the plea agreement), could lead to the U.S. Attorney's recommendation of a reduction in their sentences. Democratic precinct worker Sandra Stith, Terrance's wife, entered into a similar plea arrangement.

Standing trial with Powell will be fellow Democratic precinct committeemen Jesse Lewis, Sheila Thomas and Kevin Ellis. Ellis precinct worker Yvette Johnson is also charged.

Ellis is also charged with writing a "threatening and misleading" letter to Republican election judges "in order to intimidate" them "so they would not appear at their assigned

Alan brings up points that seem to be ignored. Yes, Democrats, with your history of not being able to pay for programs even when you raise the taxes, don't you think you might need some parental guidance there?

Thinking conservatives would be happy to give that, however, they have been buried lately, by the seething, foaming at the mouth, spoilt brat Tea Baggers who actually don't know a whole lot about what country they live in, or real life in general.

Is it really a surprise the hard decisions got put off, by the way? Are any of the politicians actually up for making them? Is anyone posting here actually up for it either? A hint might be that you start considering opposite points of view as having some value....

I know, I know, I shouldn't have said that last thing. It is just better to go on throwing a tantrum. You know, just like the hated Congressionals....

JoAnna:

You're as dense as they come.

Grow up Annie. You get more pathetic with each passing day.

Well, at least the trend is upward.

As for you, nothing ever changes, does it?

p.s. I don't remember calling you any names, JoAnna.

p.p.s. I don't take my cues from President Obama. And I know the difference between REAL civility and fake phony-baloney.

See you later.

If President Obama is reelected, and there is no interim overhaul of the tax code between now and November 2012, there is simply no way that President Obama will allow all of the Bush Tax cuts to expire.

And that is his conundrum. For the life of me I don't understand why Democrats did not change the tax rates when they had control of everything. You go through they various changes that would have been easy and politically popular. The top 2% rates, estate tax, hedge fund manager taxation. Their obsession with passing Obamacare has really come back to bite them.

Madison From NY

"Tea party terrorists"

"Save the world as we know it"

"Republican Taliban"

=============

Don't forget Pelosi when she said on the House floor no less that Republican Speaker John Boehner "chose to go to the dark side".

Nancy said it twice, just so she could hear it rattle around in her empty head a second time. That woman is an absolute hoot. Oh, and BTW, Nancy then voted for Boehner's bill.

Nancy gets more pathetic with each passing day. Truly.

Derek -

While your opinion of social programs is a personal matter to you, facts do not support that opinion. Over and over around here we've seen people like Bob (numbers), Miz Smiffy, Alan, Kirk and Madison all say much the same thing about the burden caring for the poor and needy - and clearly undeserving - lays on the taxpayer. They are full of utter baloney. Here's a quote from an article recently crafted by a Newsvine columnist. Following this excerpt is a link to the full story:

Anyone who has been on Newsvine for more than a cup of coffee has seen this before; a person who insists on pitching myth after myth about welfare in order to sidetrack substantive debate about social welfare policy and spending, as well as to demonize Democrats and President Obama in general. In fact, these myths don't just occur on the Vine; they are also prominently displayed on television, in books, and on various websites, as well as heard on radio and in direct conversation. They tend to go something like this: "lazy people looking for handouts are ruining the country", "lazy people are taking my tax dollars", "welfare makes people dependent", "welfare queens have more children in order to get more money", "the poor refuse to work because they will be supported by the rich", "Obama wants to take from the 'haves' and give to the 'have nots'", "Obama supporters want a handout", "Obama wants everyone dependent on the Government". If they aren't worded exactly like this, they are simply different variations of these types of statements.

As it turns out, according to the AFDC statistics on welfare recipients, these statements - all of them - are quite simply false.

http://jumpshotjarrod.newsvine.com/_news/2011/08/01/4155152-debunking-conservative-lies-about-welfare

You're right Feisty, only the republicans ever do anything dirty, rotten, underhanded or even questionable when it comes to elections... Or wait...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/126548898.html

Fiesty, do you need a history lesson? Google the Kennedy election and Nixon and Illinois. You will discover that Mayor Daley was able to deliver enough ghost votes to carry Illinois for Kennedy which allowed him to win the election. Without Illinois he loses to Nixon. If you read history, Nixon knew he had won but for the good of the country, he didnt challenge the vote putting the country through a prolonged battle over vote corruption etc. Where is John A when we need him to give us our history lesson so Fiesty can learn about voter fraud

Four Plead Guilty To Democrat Vote Fraud In East St. Louis

WOW!

FOUR people in 2004 vs. how many thousand's WI voters receiving bull@!$%# ballots!

Save your POUTRAGE honey, you & the idiot in Albany are making my case... ;o)

Every morning the conspiracy theory driven, mis-information spewing, paid bloggers, fiesty, navy, and all the rest of the chorus of un-informed, cut and paste, parrot monkeys , come out with there drivel and thier lies and today seems no exception. Its too bad that none of them could read the name of the article and realize what has just happened here. I guess when people like fiesty and navy and the rest of the rascaly parrots are so busy TRYING to impress people with an intelligance that was purchased out of a cereal box, they wouldnt have time to see how the people of this country just got screwed royal by its own government. You blogging morons are as blind and ignorant as you are immature and un-informed. Grow up and get smarter.

Thanks Navy.

ECONOMIC DOWNTURN AND BUSH POLICIES CONTINUE

TO DRIVE LARGE PROJECTED DEFICITS

As soon as Barack Obama was elected in 2008, Republicans, led by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and Rush Limbaugh, said time and time again that their main priority was to make Obama a one-term president.

For him, in fact, to "fail." Their main priority. Not jobs, not debt, not health care, not climate change or any of the myriad of real issues that face us all, regardless of party.

Well, just recently, when asked the question, on national television, if his main priority was still to make Obama a one-term president, McConnell affirmed that was his "single most important goal."

It would seem to me, if Obama is trying to move the country forward and try to fix some of these problems that frankly, he inherited by the wild spending and tax cutting of the previous Republican administration, that McConnell is trying to do the exact opposite in order for Obama to fail, and thus become a one-term president.

I think it would be prudent of those who criticize Obama, myself among them, to ask themselves, what is he trying to do, what makes sense and is logical and who is fighting him tooth and nail every step of the way in order that he fail.

The GOP began their Campaigning on November 5, 2008.

Yup, one side won and the other side lost. Proclaim victory for you side and sneer at the losers. The problem is the losers are your fellow citizens, who just don't happen to suck up to your dogmatic ideologues. Does anybody notice this is about the UNITED States of America; not Republicans or Democrats.

But isn't it great keeping that infighting going on? That way we don't pay attention to what is really important. Allow me to offer the following. This is Charley Reese's last column in the Orlando Sentinel. He's been in the news business for 49 years.

545 vs. 300,000,000 People

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and
then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are
against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation
and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on
appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme
Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are
directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the
domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that
problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its
Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally
chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.
They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a
senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing.
I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash.
The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what
the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to
determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that
what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con
regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive
amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a
Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating
deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the
Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and
approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?
John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow
House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If
the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree
to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot
replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of
incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic
problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you
fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the
federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they
want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they
want them in Iraq and Afghanistan .

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement
plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they
hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and
advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to
regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let
them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical
forces like "the economy","inflation," or "politics" that prevent them
from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are
their bosses.

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess.

Biteme:

Every morning the conspiracy theory driven, mis-information spewing, paid bloggers, fiesty, navy, and all the rest of the chorus of un-informed, cut and paste, parrot monkeys , come out with there drivel and thier lies and today seems no exception. Its too bad that none of them could read the name of the article and realize what has just happened here. I guess when people like fiesty and navy and the rest of the rascaly parrots are so busy TRYING to impress people with an intelligance that was purchased out of a cereal box, they wouldnt have time to see how the people of this country just got screwed royal by its own government. You blogging morons are as blind and ignorant as you are immature and un-informed. Grow up and get smarter.

Indeed. In particular I want to know your spelling teacher better.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

You are so very aptly named.

@John A-400474

While your opinion of social programs is a personal matter to you, facts do not support that opinion. Over and over around here we've seen people like Bob (numbers), Miz Smiffy, Alan, Kirk and Madison all say much the same thing about the burden caring for the poor and needy - and clearly undeserving - lays on the taxpayer.

I take exception to this. I have never said that the old or the poor are clearly undeserving, and I had this conversation with AM and Ira, my concern is how you pay for the benefits. If you look over the last 25 years, going back to the last change to SS in 1986, the government has basically taxed the individual at 12% more than the advertised rate. Even with these additional funds the government is still running a $1.3T deficit and is borrowing 40% of its operating costs (not borrowing money to invest in the future).

So I am not arguing over the merits of Medicare, or its beneficiaries, I am trying to have a reasonable discussion on what we want versus what we can afford. My problem is that Democrats argue that the current programs can remain in place virtually unchanged, and can be funded by only minor changes to taxation levels (tax the top 2%). I do not accept this argument as the numbers do not add up. The fact that there are going to be 80 million baby boomers retiring over the next 10 to 15 years means to me that we cannot have the current level of open ended entitlements. (BTW I will be one of the these new retirees). So the first question that has not been answered is "What level of benefits will we offer", and the second question is who is going to pay? Will it be the retirees, or will it be the taxpayers? Now, I have no doubt it will be a combination of the two but who pays what is where the argument is.

As a final note, I do not see this is political terms as the voters will decide the outcome. Where I get frustrated is I see no leadership at the Federal level on this issue, except for Representative Ryan. You can argue with his proposals, and I do not agree with many of them, but only he in my opinion is showing leadership on this issue.

In my state Governor Christie and Mayor Booker have shown leadership in advocating for responsible social programs. Ones that can be afforded and sustained by a tax base that has less money than four years ago.

John A, again you are being offensive and mischaracterizing our fiscal conservative views in order to embellish and paint a picture that fiscal conservatives want to kick granny to the street and walk three miles uphill both ways in order to find the soup line. Thats just utter nonsense and affront to anyone with a scintilla of common sense. Show me any of the debates where fiscal conservatives are cutting services to the poor? Could it be that all this spending discussion is about reducing the rate of growth? Could you provide any evidence of any entitlement program that has been reduced in any absolute dollar basis? If you just take the rate of growth from 2000 all of these programs have doubled much faster than inflation, or the rate of revenue growth. Your straw man arguments intended to inflame passions and make us look like Scrooge is pathetic.

Moreover, provide me with one post that I have ever sent that would indicate that welfare recipients are not worthy of a safety net. What I have said is that not only do I support a safety net, I work and volunteer in that safety net. However, the problem with our entitlement programs and the progressive agenda such as yours John A is that you posit everything as poor granny and children on the street that need all the entitlements and that the wealthy and corporate loopholes are not paying enough. The real issue isnt the extremes as you lay it out but how do we continue to pay for entitlement benefits that make up the gray middle area that the progressives want to make bigger and bigger all the time. The income and wealth gap is because of our educational gap, immigration, behaviorial choices such as single teen moms, drugs alchohol, union jobs in which merit, performance and upward mobility are eliminated, lack of ambition or generational welfare and subsidized living etc medicare and social security wealth transfers from the young to the old that control 80% of the wealth in this country. You dont want to address these issues as you would prefer to paint us fiscal conservatives as taking the last bite of food out of a babies mouth which is just BS

Seriously, Wilberta-

Do you not believe that after George W. Bush was elected to his first term, Democratic leaders weren't determined to make him a one-term President?

Of course they were. That's not news.

It's simply common sense.

The largest Federal debt limit increase in HISTORY was the $1.9 trillion increase passed by Congress and signed by President Obama on Feb. 12, 2010 increasing the debt limit from $12.394 trillion to $14.294 trillion OBAMA is HISTORICAL and PRECEDENT SETTING he wins the prize hands down for SPENDING LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW

Wilberta - The conservatives knew who Barry Obama was. They knew his agenda. They also knew his agenda would stifle growth, create higher unemployment, increase the national debt and generally hurt businesses in this country. The ones that didn't know, or didn't care, were those people that voted to put him in office.

Now almost 3 years later, is unemployment higher? Is the economy doing poorly? Is growth down? Is the national debt higher? - all the things that were predicted about Obama have come true.

I don't have to ask the question - what is Obama trying to do? - I know what he's trying to do. He's trying to force feed his agenda on a country that is pretty much unwilling to swallow it. Some love him, but I dare say he's losing support by the bucketfull.

Mixed: Do you not believe that after George W. Bush was elected to his first term, Democratic leaders weren't determined to make in a one-term President?

Believing it is different from stating it outright, in public, and then making it central in policy decisions.

Navy, you asked "But how could he when you have a Party that thinks destroying the US Government, the economy and our Credit Status is the only thing important to them and will not compromise?"

Simple, don't cave on your call for a clean bill right out of the gate. You would think he would have learned from the health care debate that you don't give up before the negotiations begin (..not even starting with single payer...geez). But he didn't. He gave Boehner everything he wanted from the starting blocks and worked from there. At the end of the day he may not have had the clean bill he wanted, but it would have had to have been better than this.

No telling what he will give away next time.

Mixed Bag

Seriously, Wilberta-

Do you not believe that after George W. Bush was elected to his first term, Democratic leaders weren't determined to make in a one-term President?

No Democrat ever said their number one priority was to make Bush a one-term president. Republicans would have screamed TREASON, which they frequently did anyway whenever Democrats criticized Bush. Mitch McConnell said publicly his number one priority was to make Obama a one-term president when his number one priority is supposed to be governing the country. That's the job he was elected to do. But McConnell is acting instead in accordance with his stated priority of destroying Obama politically: keep the US economy in as much of a mess as possible until the 2012 elections and pin the blame on Obama, frequently parroting the mantra "Where are the jobs?" as Republicans act to cut budgets to kill as many jobs as they possibly can before the election.

Ummm Feisty,

You may want to check on the story first before blanket portraying the Tea Party as the only group doing this.

Please read, as the DNC has been calling people with the wrong date as well... So, under your assumptions, then the DNC is also committing voter fraud? Or, it could just be a mistake...

Only one thing is sure... You are a political hack that is looking to smear the Tea Party rather than engage in honest opinions based on the actual facts of any debt. Instead you rather some up all Tea Partiers under the acts a select few and polarize the populace like the Democrats have for decades.

People (voters) should never rely on third party information (whether is be for the AFP or the DNC), but should be in charge of contacting their local Clerk's office for the actual dates and forms.

Also, let's not forget the Black Panther's standing in front of Voting Centers with bats directly engaged in voter intimidation... Oh no, the Democrats would never allow that...

Anna Molly: Its too bad that all you can come up with is a few spelling errors. It stands to reason you are certainly part of the problem and not part of the solution. Why dont you go get a cracker and run along like a good little parrot.

Kirk: Show me any of the debates where fiscal conservatives are cutting services to the poor?

Wisconsin. Look it up.

Could you provide any evidence of any entitlement program that has been reduced in any absolute dollar basis?

Wisconsin. Look it up.

The income and wealth gap is because of our educational gap, immigration, behaviorial choices such as single teen moms, drugs alchohol, union jobs in which merit, performance and upward mobility are eliminated, lack of ambition or generational welfare and subsidized living etc medicare and social security wealth transfers from the young to the old that control 80% of the wealth in this country.

Seriously. Perhaps you should tell that to my union-member family members who are lawyers and professors, and who are good, church-going citizens who are as clean-as-a-whistle according to your judgmental criteria. Their only crime, as far as I know it, is that they work in the public sector, where only the evil and undeserving work, apparently.

Perhaps you should tell them that it isn't corporatist greed who made them give back pay and benefits so that the governor and legislature could hand out tax breaks to their cronies. Perhaps you should tell the National Merit scholars and Phi Beta Kappas among them that unions held them back.

Because otherwise, they had no clue and thought they were doing just fine until Scott Walker came along to advise them that they are no longer worthy of dignity and respect.

John A, again you are being offensive and mischaracterizing our fiscal conservative views in order to embellish and paint a picture that fiscal conservatives want to kick granny to the street and walk three miles uphill both ways in order to find the soup line.

I give you two words for this: "death panels." Look to your own fear-mongering house.

Moreover, provide me with one post that I have ever sent that would indicate that welfare recipients are not worthy of a safety net.

How condescending you always are. You certainly suggested that very thing to me, about a week or so ago, and you've done it again in this post, perhaps unwittingly, but oh, so revealingly. You're SO generous to offer them your time and money, and take the public credit and the tax break that goes with your food pantry activities, aren't you?

While dissing them all the while on the backside for being in the position to need your help.

David Walker post 1.66 said: Does anybody notice this is about the UNITED States of America; not Republicans or Democrats.

100% in agreement with you David. Ideology be damned. I've been saying for some time that those who are blaming the other side, are blaming the wrong people. The government and those who run it are the culprits in all this... both sides share equally in the blame. No one side is better than the other and there's enough guilt to go around to stifle any opposition.

Alan -

That article is about welfare programs and related support for the poor and needy, not about Medicare, or Social Security.

And the repeated mantra has been that the recipients of those benefits are basically a bunch of low-life sluggards who want to take and take and never give back. And yes, I've read your version of that line on the blogs, as well.

But the facts are startlingly different. It is precisely why I posted the excerpt from the article's opening, which also repeats the various comments made about people who receive the benefits, and then the link to the detailed treatment of the facts.

As for Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid, of course all it would really take is paying back what has been borrowed from the trust funds, as well as a specific effort to reform the fundamental reinbursement system for medical services. We've had this dialogue here several times, and I shan't repeat it again today.

The detailed treatment of this subject, which I crafted as a Newsvine column, can be found here:

http://langewinckler.newsvine.com/_news/2011/01/06/5777407-debt-defecit-and-wise-government

Anna Molly -

Excellent riposte.

And by the way, Florida is also cutting heavily on every front, attacking union members, and attempting to privatize the public education system.

The rot is spread across the land.

Do you not believe that after George W. Bush was elected to his first term, Democratic leaders weren't determined to make in a one-term President?

No. They nominated John Kerry to ensure that Bush would be re-elected.

Note to Republicans, nominating Bachmann or Perry would be following the same strategy.

lol, Alan-

Unintended consequence, I'm sure.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

While President Obama's numbers go down the tea baggers go down even further. Sure looks like a win for them to me.

The people are pissed because President Obama did not hold his ground. But how could he when you have a Party that thinks destroying the US Government, the economy and our Credit Status is the only thing important to them and will not compromise? He had to bite the bullet and take the heat. He said he would and he did. The GOP/TP on the other hand just continued saying NO and running away from meetings.

God NavyBoy, you should ask Barry O for a job as an official spinner of the lies rather than a blogger on the NewsVine Progressive Fan Club site. Now I understand that opinions are like rectums, everyone has one, but you are the biggest spinner of truth I have yet seen! Obama didn't bite the bullet, he caved in. He threw you libbies under the bus and you guys continue to spin the lies.

The Republicans didn't run and hide from meeting Bozo, the produced proposals that the Senate and Harry Reid tabled. Everyone who can watch a television knows that to be fact Navy. As for compromise, how can one begin to negotiate when they are the only party at the table. A sad commentary when the minority leader of the Senate negotiates with the President without the Majority Senate Leader in attendence.

By the way NavyBoy, you never answered, did you receive your disability check this past weekend? You know, those funds your were crying about not receiving due to the bad and evil Republicans creating an impass over the debt crisis. If you received you deposit to your account Navy, were you led down the path of lies by the president, or where you just spouting off party line?

It is ok to admit you cried Chicken Little Navy.....come on, you can answer the question.

And the repeated mantra has been that the recipients of those benefits are basically a bunch of low-life sluggards who want to take and take and never give back. And yes, I've read your version of that line on the blogs, as well.

Please post one comment I have made to support this contention.

As for Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid, of course all it would really take is paying back what has been borrowed from the trust funds, as well as a specific effort to reform the fundamental reinbursement system for medical services. We've had this dialogue here several times, and I shan't repeat it again today.

Yes we have, and from what I understand your argument is that the borrowed money should be payed back. What I have not seen is a logical argument of how the money should be paid back. we are currently running a $1.3T deficit. Just to get even with that on revenue basis would be to go back to the Clinton tax rates and then double them. Now on top of that you want the money paid back, roughly $2.4T. I don't think there is enough money left unless you extend the tax rates down into the 47% who do not pay federal taxes. Is this what you are proposing? You do not seem to accept that the money is spent and the only source of funds to "pay it back" is the middle class tax payer.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Figure in Governor Walkers voter ID law & closing DMV offices in heavily Democratic districts, it sure stinks of voter suppression!

Voter suppression? Really? You mean like the kind of voter suppression that we saw out of the Philadelphia chapter of the Black Panthers during the last election cycle? That kind of voter suppression?

Of course not. The Governor would not stoop to such ANIMAL tactics.

AM, I actually like you and most of our discusions but it amazes me that when you don't like the non politically correct opinion, your first instinct is to attack personally. I am used to John a using deflection and embellishment as his argument method rather than actual debate but you are usually better than that. I am not going to discuss Wisconsin because I don't know enough about the budget but we were discussing the current fed debate. If we want get at the local level don't get me started on the corrupt Illinois democrats who have driven my state into financial ruin so let's stay at the fed level.

You are so twisting my words and never called union families bad as I am one. My mom, sister and wife are teachers so stop the hysterical charges. Unions don't reward merit, performance and provide for upward mobility in return you get job security (at least for government jobs) and stable earnings. You may not like my description but it's accurate. How did that translate into your description of church going professionals?

As for condescending, it's the progressive politically climate you are comfortable in where I can't say anything about addressing the underlying causes or behavioral choices without being racist elitist etc so instead we just throw money at the problems and never address the causes. It's too bad AM that your too afraid to talk about the issues and feel more comfortable with labels and accusations and embellishing the extremes. By the way when did I lose the ability to defend myself from John A so it's from your perspective I either accept his accusations as truth or if I sayi didn't say it aim condescending.

By the way in Wisconsin, didn't walker just want the government unions to have the same collective bargaining rights as the federal government workers? Second, why do state government workers need a union anyway? I can't comment on the actual Wisconsin budget issues but I can discuss overall union positions if you like and I have a lot of experience on both sides so I am game for that if you want.

You mean like the kind of voter suppression that we saw out of the Philadelphia chapter of the Black Panthers during the last election cycle

You mean the case that was dropped by the DOJ...

Have I told you how cute you are SOB, when you're desperate? ;o)

I see that FR Conservatives are casting about for their next nontroversy, their next focus item to distract people from their very real war on the middle class. Very real voter fraud is being orchestrated RIGHT NOW by GOPTP front groups and the deflection is "I'll bet Democrats do it too." Really? That justifies undermining our democratic institutions?

Meanwhile the search for the magic shiny object continues. Maybe it's George Soros. Maybe it's redefining "victory" as "something the Tea Party voted against."

The important thing is that the Right not be held accountable for taking the economy hostage to satisfy their narrow interests.

bob ~

Is there hope for Anna Molly?

Most likely not, bob, as you have so skillfully dissected everything I said and pierced it to the core.

In short, I'm stung.

Except for one thing. The whole point of my comments, which you either chose to ignore or didn't get, is that there is nothing in the debt ceiling deal that offers any hope of creating jobs.

You don't respond to that anywhere, as far as I can tell.

I hope you read my post on that very subject later down the thread. Seems there are a few others writing financial news for whom there also is no hope.

Without you to set me straight, I don't know what I would do. So thank you.

Later, bob.

So, now that Obama can get back to work campaigning, does that mean our government will continue on its over spending road to nowhere? I'm still waiting for leadership to come from the White House, but I have to admit, Obama didn't try to "steer" us away from further debt when the Dems had a super majority. Heck, he didn't send a single bill back to Congress due to having earmarks either. Yes, yet another promise broken by Obama (how transparent). spend, spend, spend YOUR $$$... the Democrat way.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Rigging elections has always been a GOP main stay

Once upon a time, at least they would attempt to conceal it!

They NO longer bother to don the 'sheep' suit...

I find these comments hilarious considering the group MOST know for rigging elections is the Chicago politicians... And WHICH party has dominated Chicago politics...?????

John A., thanks for the article and link. May I just say I find that source highly questionable. I'm going to quote Senator Charles E. Schumer to make a point. During this debate of debt, he said, "Medicare is a highly effective program that costs too much money." A lot of our government programs are like that.

The THEORY, and there is some evidence to back it up, is that all these programs pay for themselves. Yet from our own leaders on either side of the aisle, even from the radicals on either side of the aisle, it is clear there is waste to cut. This is why I find it silly to fall in with one side of the debate or the other. People preach like fact that all programs pay for themselves. Or they preach that all programs are ripping off the system. The 'fact' is the truth probably lies somewhere in between. And in that vein, it is completely sensical to look for where cuts can be made. It makes just as much sense to look at where cuts should not be made but revenue raised.

But the FOAMERS will have nothing to do with that. They don't want questions. They want to be RIGHT, even if it hurts. And the Foamers right now are trying to drive the debate. Personally, I am happy they are LOSING, and bad as this deal is, that it got made, despite the people who would rather we blow up the system than have it work.

P. S. Here is where I will agree with you: On the topic of welfare and helping people get back to work. Trimming here is cutting off your nose despite your face. No Republican or Democrat should be targetting this, and it speaks to the moron level of Congress. We need jobs, but we cut the programs that help people find them? Two brain cells can figure out how dumb that is.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

You mean the case that was dropped by the DOJ...

Exactly, Feisty! And we all remember WHO made that call to drop charges... and that there was absolutly no controversy surrounding THAT decision... RIGHT?

Sorry... but the video tape told the tale... the video tape and that goofball racist Shabaz!!

I wonder if the charges would have been dropped had the people standing outside the polling place beenwearing hoods?

Hate is Hate... no matter what color it comes in you hypocrite!

Kirk:

AM, I actually like you and most of our discusions but it amazes me that when you don't like the non politically correct opinion, your first instinct is to attack personally.

Keep trying to make yourself the victim, Kirk. That's also oh, so, revealing.

My so-called "personal attack" was to analyze your own words and show what they really mean, when taken together. If they don't stand up to scrutiny, that's not my fault.

Res ipsa loquitur.

Unions don't reward merit, performance and provide for upward mobility in return you get job security (at least for government jobs) and stable earnings.

I was a union steward, negotiator, and member, so don't try to tell me how it works.

Unions don't "reward" anyone. They negotiate. Only employers can "reward" union members. If employers don't like the terms, they don't have to agree. Again, look to your own house. Don't blame unions because management doesn't do its job to weed out bad employees and can't stand up at the negotiating table.

In short, your description of unions is TOTALLY inaccurate.

Except, what's wrong with job stability? If people collectively decide to trade off wealth for stability, that's their choice. Unions decide for themselves what their goals are. If you really have teachers in your family, then you know that unions don't exist apart from their members. Members are the unions. If they don't like what the bargaining team is negotiating for, they have a right to change it.

Everything you say about those who have fewer advantages than you do simply reeks with condescencion, Kirk.

But I just pointed it out.

I never attached any racist overtones to it. I wonder how you got from what I said to there.

That thought must have come from your own head.

Alan -

Several weeks ago, you included a throwaway line about taxes supporting the undeserving (not necessarily in those words, but in content). It actually made me so mad I decided not to engage in further discourse with you. Yet here we are.

To address your remarks re taxes and repaying the money owed to the trust funds, I have previously made several proposals that encompassed not only that debt - roughly 60% of the current national debt - but the entire amount. Some of these are embedded in a long Newsvine column I wrote on the topic, here:

http://langewinckler.newsvine.com/_news/2011/05/16/6654905-russian-roulette-saner-than-gop-debt-stand

In short, there are several ways to deal with the issue.

First, isolate that portion of the debt incurred to pay for the last decade of wars. Take the example of Great Britain at the time of the American Revolution, when that country ran up a war debt proportionately larger than that the U.S. has incurred since 2002. A "sinking fund" dedicated specifically to retiring that debt was created and while it took the U.K. many decades to ultimately retire the debt - in part because only 10 years later the U.K. was back at war on the Continent for another 25 years - it did so and preserved its credit rating and low interest reuirements. Today the U.S. would have to establish a specific set-aside levy to fund and sustain this fund. And it probably would be a major part of tax reforms that include added revenues from corporations that today pay NOTHING in U.S. taxes as well as a portion of any upper-level marginal rate increase on the top 2% of individuals.

And note that a substantial share of the debt involved came from "loans" made out of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds.

Some readjustment of tax policies affecting mainly middle-class households is inevitable. The remark about nearly half of the country's household paying "no taxes" is actually disingenuous. Here's a bit of what Politifact.com said about that remark:

Estimates by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center project that for tax year 2011, 46.4 percent of households won’t have any income tax liability. However, of this number, 28.3 percent will pay payroll taxes, the center projects. Of the remaining 18.1 percent with neither income nor payroll tax liability, 10.3 percent are elderly and 6.9 percent are not elderly but have incomes lower than $20,000. In other words, all but a tiny sliver of Americans without either income tax or payroll tax liability are either elderly or poor.

According to economist Joseph Stiglitz, the reduced paryoll tax and the cuts for the wealthiest Americans have not significantly affected the economy. He reports that the money has gone into savings, after the shock of the 2008 collapse. That money has not circulated to help stimulate the economy, as hoped. Part of "tax reform" should eliminate both reductions - the so-called Bush tax cuts, and the reduction of the payroll tax.

In addition, some changes in the tax codes will have to eliminate some of the deductions, or reduce them, that all taxpayers now enjoy. The mortgage deduction is a palusible target - not necessarily for elimination, but modification. Mortgage deductions should be revised to occur on a sliding scale - say, below $100,000 outstanding mortage, no change; above that amount a graduated scale that ultimately eliminates the deduction entirely for mortgages above, say $350,000. A few years ago that would have included far more taxpayers than it will today. This sort of change is reduction of a "tax expenditure" rather than a tax incease.

U.S. tax codes now allow corporations to "offshore" their earnings and pay no taxes at all on them. Google, for example, is hiding literally billions by doing its banking in Ireland. This is a practice that must be eliminated.

One of the most scandalous aspects of the tax code is how it encourages outrageous compensation packages and bonuses for corporate executives, bankers and stock traders, and others. REaligning capital gains levies as well as levies on excessive compensation packages will go far to end that scandal, and promote much healthier management of businesses.

And eventually, the U.S. is going to return to economic recovery. In fact, cutting spending that stimulates the economy is an appalling concept. But if in the same situation as a national concern over debt and deficit the country chooses to invest in the economy and promote job growth along with economic growth - and yes, it is proven that such measures work, despite the falsehoods some put out - then that investment should be recaptured in the course of recovery. Much as the "sinking fund" for war debt, a special account in the Treasury should be set aside specifically to retire stimulus debt. A set-aside of increased revenues generated by recovery is one means of doing so.

It is quite possible to attack the nation's deficits and debt, intelligently, over time. But someone has to kick Grover Norquist and the Heritage Foundation, among others, out of the conference room where the effort is put together.

Biteme:

Anna Molly: Its too bad that all you can come up with is a few spelling errors. It stands to reason you are certainly part of the problem and not part of the solution. Why dont you go get a cracker and run along like a good little parrot.

Too easy. Because Anna Polly thinks for herself and doesn't want a cracker. And she certainly doesn't run away when the name-calling playground bully tells her to.

You just hate that, don't you?

As for being part of the solution, it's back to work now to generate more tax revenue for the government, so that we can keep paying for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

And now why don't YOU go off to a corner someplace and bite yourself. You seem to need it, and it's clear that no one else around here wants to do it.

Derek -

that article was written by a Newsvine member, just like us. I found that the writer gave good citations - I checked them - and concisely assembled his facts. It wasn't really about medicare - it was about such programs as WIC, public assistance, SCHIP and so forth.

The problem with both Medicare and Medicaid is cost, more than anything else. The Reagan Administration, beginning in 1981, completely "reformed" Medicare reimbursment methods that ultimately transformed the entire health care system into a many-layered cake of profit slices. It's too technical and lengthy to detail here, but that's what the so-called "reform" of Medicare and Medicaid should be addressing. It's not even hard to do, although some very big corporate interests such as Humana will go bonkers. But that's where REAL "health care reform" needs to take place.

Well, I can see the MSNBC, the White House media bloggers Feisty and Ret Navy Vet were right on 'it' once again spewing what they think will resonate with anyone. Not! Obama is done. He's out as is the rest of the Progressive/Socialist Dems and RINOs.

And the GOP/TP have been paving the way to nullify your next vote as they attemt to defund another commission

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/163221-republicans-vote-to-abolish-election-commission-set-up-after-bush-v-gore

AM, I see there is no real discussion with you as you want to paint people a certain way and you do notice how you have veered the debate off the issues that you convienently want to avoid. I dont feel like a victim at all but just showing you how you like to use the art of personal attacks and destruction as a device to debate rather than the issues. It makes you feel better that I am some condescending person that is trying to steal the last bite of food and embellish the real issues on the extremes rather than have a real debate. None of my posts or comments ever came close to how you positioned them but using your words you would like to parse through them to make you somehow feel warm and fuzzy and think of me as some nonfeeling person. Its ok for you to have personal experiences relevant to this issue and provide them. Just like you did to me I am supposed to be impressed by your union stewardship that protected these poor working souls that were going to be paid pennies per hour without your leadership and commitment. See how it feels to have someone take your words and stretch them to a conclusion that fits the attack mode and takes the discussion in the wrong direction. But my personal experiences when they dont fit your view of the world are somehow wrong. Finally you always convienently avoid the questions or or issues that really are relevant. We started out talking about spending on social services and pretty soon we are talking wisconsin unions and when asked why they even need a union or why collective bargaining for wisconsin government employees needs to be better than federal union employees you skip to my personal attacks. You never addressed the real issues at any point.

As for unions itself, you still didnt address my basic premise that merit, performance and upward mobility are not present in the unions. Instead you went on some rant on employers rewarding unions and off the subject. Maybe our experience is just because I have been on the other side of that bargaining. In my previous employer, we had union and nonunion locations. For the exact same job title, a union employee made approximately $18 dollars an hour and non union $13 dollars. The non union employees were at least 25% more productive because it was an hourly wage while the union employees had a set number of tasks and if they finished early they could sit in the employee lounge for hours. More importantly the last two were the key drivers for my distaste of unions. We tried to negotiate performance based bonuses in which if the location performed well everyone would get more, guess which locations agreed to performance pay and guess which locations performed overall the best in terms of profitability and just as important customer satisfaction and employee satisfaction? Finally, our COO started at the bottom, high school education from a non union location. If he had started at the union location he would have the same job no promotions just seniority. Management has no ability to weed out bad performers and you know that. My description of unions is right on the mark.

As for attacking my family, give me one teacher's union in this country in which merit and promotional ability is present? Give me one? So dont tell me to look inward. I guess I better take back that I liked you.

John A, I cant believe we are on the same page and you must be reading my posts. I have been advocating the elimination of all social engineering from the tax code for awhile. You pick out a few but there are hundreds of deductions, loopholes etc embedded in the code for the sole purpose of providing government subsidies or welfare to taxpayers. I couldnt agree more that we shouldnt encourage certain behavior via the tax code. If we want to provide welfare to people with earned income below a certain amount eliminate the earned income refundable credit and lets just give them welfare under the welfare budget. We need a faired progressive tax where everyone has a stake in this country and yes the wealthy pay the largest portion. I hate the provision Clinton put in the code the encourages performance based executive compensation that caused executive comp to skyrocket so I agree with you on that one too. The only place I disagree is your use of parking earnings offshore. I am not saying their arent abuses which I am sure there are as that always happens but the current regime is set up to make sense because it allows US corporations to be competitive with foreign competitors in foreign jurisdictions. If anything we need to eliminate the US tax on bringing the profit back to the US. We are the only industrialized taxing authority that does that which is why the earnings stay offshore. If we taxed all earnings offshore at the US rate we would have huge job losses as US companies could no longer compete and sell thier "widget" in the foreign country at a competitive price but our tax would be too high. My guess is you already understand this so I am not sure why you are advocating taxing offshore earnings. If anything we need to eliminate the corporate tax and increase the tax on capital gains or cash profits remitted from the corporations to its shareholders.

Anna Molly: You speak directly out of the fiesty,navy, parrot blogging handbook. You havent been able to think for yourself or have an original thought since you began thinking like you do. I dont need anyone out here to bite me, and unlike you, I dont TRY to impress people out here with a non existant intelligance. Certainly one that was afforded to you by the blogger bunch out here. As for being a bully, if you dont want to be bullied then dont come at me with your 3rd grade insults and your name calling. I know that thats standard operating procedure out here when the polly bloggers get backed into a corner with truth, but dont complain about the fire that you draw.As for being a hater, well you are certainly the pot calling the kettle black. Read my moniker and act accordingly. Get smarter and grow up. By the way, you need a jod to help generate the economy.

Anna Polly-

Err...I mean, Anna MOLLY!

They'll always be hope for you.

You're smart, and you've got a deadly sense of humor.

Plus, a mean independent streak.

You aren't grabbing anyone else's cracker, are you?

lol

It always makes me forget how wrong you are most of the time.

;-)

red on the head, here's another one for you......

http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/mississippi-naacp-leader-sent-to-prison-for-10-counts-of-voter-fraud/

A word of advice to JAS1; stay away from Feisty, Disabled Vet, and the rest of their gang. They aren't worth the trouble and are completely out of control. I enjoy your comments but they are out of place a waste in their presence. Come on Nov, 2012! If I have to eat that outburst I will, something they would never do. They still say Bush stole the 2000 election, and if Obama loses next year it'll be the same. Read the first post above.

@Mixed Bag

The Democrats did not announce they wanted GWB to fail as the POTUS!

They're not that stupid. Sink the Potus, sink the Country.

@BrianB,

Then the Republicans should have known better than to Challenge Obama with McCain and Palin.

So now they're CLAIRVOYANT!

However, let the campaigning begin....and we'll see in 2012.

Wilberta-

You referenced one comment from one Republican...and were unable, or unwilling to comprehend its context.

Of course, Democrats want a new Republican President to serve only one term...just as Republicans want a new Democratic President to serve only one term.

If Mitt Romney is elected President in November 2012...

Tell me you want him to be a two-term President, Wilberta.

Tell me.

And it had better be good, Wilberta.

Real good.

Serously, when HASN'T Obama's focus been on campaigning. It's all campaigning, all the time. Raise that billion$$, make speeches. Oh..almost forgot...blame, blame, blame....

During the Bush 43 administration, republicans realized that a "crisis" gave them power. They now manufacture crises for power and leverage. The TARP vote, the tax cut extension during the lame duck, the potential Government Shutdown this past spring and now the unnecessary debt ceiling debacle. Drag the debate out as long as possible to get traction and create fear. What a way to govern.

Republicans criticized Rahm Emanuel's comment "never let a crisis go to waste" but they have a harmful version of that thinking. Create the crisis first and never let it go to waste.

Oh course this latest mess is what happens when you have the hostage takers, (Republican-Tea Baggers) blackmailing the people of the United States. As far as I’m concerned, these Tea Baggers and anyone that supports them, are nothing more than terrorist, who have attacked the United States.

Couldn't have said it better, Jody. Conservative Republicans have moved us into a constant state of government by crisis.

*** Goodbye Washington, hello campaign trail: When the Senate today, as expected, passes the debt deal and sends it to President Obama’s desk, it effectively moves the political world’s focus from Washington to the 2012 campaign trail. Yes, there are plenty of unresolved issues on Capitol Hill over the next year and a half.

Think maybe Obama and the Senate could come up with a FY2012 budget? FY2012 does start in November, and with the glacial pace Barry and Harry work at, it might be time they spent a few minutes figuring out what that budget should be.

Come on, JS1- why would next year be any different from this year?

Or last year?

Or the year before that?

Obama has NEVER had a budget- it's another sign of his great "leadership".

Besides, he has a party to attend. It's in honor of his birthday, and his guests are bringing cash-$38,500 each, as a matter of fact.

Poor dear had to cancel a couple of other parties he had lined up- it's really crummy how doing things like negotiating legislation interferes with his ability to fundraise and get out and enjoy himself.

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to let him do the partying and fundraising full time. You know, get him out of the Oval Office, so he can just enjoy life full-time.

Governing does not seem to be his strong suit.

Jody:

How true. The question is not if we are going to have another manufactured crisis, but when. This whole "Hostage" idea is far from over and the GOP/TP will pull it again.

The FAA is another example. They will not fund the FAA until they get some anti-union law passed. Again creating a crisis where there was not one and using their ideology to hold the 4,000 members "Hostage" along with 90,000 construction jobs as well. And this happens right smack in the middle of the construction season.

It is nothing more than a continuation of their agenda to increase unemployment and stall the economy. We will see more and more of this because the GOP/TP has long ago abandoned the basic values of this country in favor of power and greed.

John B., Des Moines IA: Couldn't have said it better, Jody. Conservative Republicans have moved us into a constant state of government by crisis.

Boehner and the GOP have passed their FY2012 budget. When is Reid going to pass the Senates FY2012 budget? Bet the FY2012 budget turns into a crisis, a crisis because Harry and Barry will not get their act together. It's kind of like the Bush, and now Obama, tax cuts last year. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi had two years to do something about the "Bush tax cuts", but did nothing. and that turned into a crisis too, didn't John?

Maybe if Obama spend more time working and less time campaigning he'd get some work done.

Really Corky? Terrorist? LOL......Who did they Blackmail Corky? You? Me? They were voted into office by the people for the people. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them terrorist now do they unless you're a mindless sheep that believe what others tell you.

But lets not forget who it was who said "Never let a crisis go to waste"...

Paul - The haters of the Tea Party also hate it when congressmen actually do what they set out to do according to what their constituency wanted them to do. Of course what they set out to do was disrupt the status quo. These same haters never take the time to understand that a group of people might actually have the best interest of the United States in mind. They'd rather call them terrorists, or a number of other names... in ignorance. I have to hand it to the Tea Party members... they did what they said they were going to do and stuck with it. They didn't let sticks and stones break their bones cause names never hurt them... childish, right? So are the names they are called.

Paul, what do YOU call a small group of people who hold hostage the country for their own ideology? What do you call a small group of people who board airplanes, destroy thousands of people and threaten thousands more for their cause?

Felden - Apples, oranges? That's what I call your rethoric. The scenerio isn't even on the same plain. What you are trying to say is that 60 people out of the entire government held up everything. What about the others that held this up? Are they terrorists too? Meaning the inaction of the democrats and their lack of ideas.

Your weak argument really has no merit. Now I suggest you do some studying of what the Tea Party stands for and what they are trying to accomplish. Stop trying to pigeon hole their cause by following talking points from the media and silly comparisons.

Paul, wasn't Hamas voted in by the people and for the people of Gaza? Weren't they still called a terrorist organization because of their actions?

What would you, then, call an organization that was threatening to pull the trigger on the worlds economy unless they got everything they wanted...

the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is which side you are on.

"...Last month in four installments -- one, two, three, and four -- I posted readers' views on how we should understand President Obama's negotiating stance during the (unnecessary and abusive) debt-ceiling "showdown." Was he thinking eight steps ahead of the opposition, playing multi-dimensional chess while they were playing tic-tac-toe? Or was he a fatal step or two behind, playing patty-cake while they were playing Mixed Martial Arts? Chess master? Or pawn?"

I think we know the answer, at least about this encounter. Pawn, and captured pawn at that.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/well-weve-answered-this-question-chess-master-v-pawn-dept/242863/

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Tom Tomorrow comic is priceless.."Middleman" vs "Capt. Orange" and "the human Turtle"...:)

Paul....what you'll be seeing in WI in the coming weeks is a microcosm of what's going to happen nationally next November. You know....the Republican state legislators and governor, bankrolled by the Koch brothers, who were elected "by the people"? You'll soon see what will happen to those six or so Republican state legislators who assumed that their election wins meant that the "people" were behind their all-out assault on the middle-class. Their arrogance will be dealt with by....that's right....the "people of WI" who were fooled by these right-wingers' campaign promises. Extremists, both progressives and capitalists, have no place in American politics, as they don't know what it's like to compromise for the good of the country.

In a couple of weeks, it's WI....next November, the TP in the U.S. Congress will find out just how "supported" they really are!

Just listening to President Obama's comments about the debt ceiling passage, and I was struck with how much he is beginning to sound like a republican. Talking all the points republicans have been making over the past 2+ years. WOW.

Of course it isn't his responsibility to improve the economy or jobs it is Congress's (democrats and republicans). Talk about passing the buck. Does he take responsibility for anything?

Rick,

Let's see, Gaza, their people voted them in right? First of all Gaza is not a country. Second of all the TEA Party didn't hold anybody hostage, they didn't cave into the typical DC BS.

Koch Brothers? You know that equals to Soros on the Liberal side right?

You got me! No, they aren't a country. However, the people of the Strip did, indeed, vote Hamas in to govern in democratic elections. They are a democratically elected (local) government that is considered a terrorist organization.

But, the tea party faction did hold the country hostage. Knowing the potential disaster to the world economy if they didn't get their way, they wouldn't budge. you can say they didn't cave. Too true - that was left to those who actually cared what happened to the country and chose the lesser of 2 evils.

Rick,

Read more into Gaza, it's apple and oranges. Look up Hamas and Fatah.

There's only 66 (I think) TEA Party members on the house side. I'm not a TEA Party member or a member of a political party. I've voted D and R. I don't believe in useless spending on both sides, but it has to stop.

Oh Paul, you made me doubt myself. I went back and did as you suggested.

I was right.

My point with this was that the Tea Party faction of the Republican Party (a minority, as you point out) held the government economically hostage to their demands. They didn't care what happened.

Frankly, as a lefty-progressive socialist (I've voted left of center most of my life...except for 1980 when I went with Paul Anderson, I was young, what can I say) I dohold them in some regard. I just wish we had a similar group on the left.

While I believe our reasoning for it may be differerent, I totally agree that govt spending needs to be more efficient and better focused.

I was wondering if someone could tell me exactly what this is going to do to Social Security and Social Security Disability. I have many disabled friends who are living in extreme fear that come January 2013 they will loose their disability and be forced to live in the streets. Many have to take meds which consume a huge portion of their checks and many Elderly are worried that their Social Security will be cut and they all are worried that Medicare will be destroyed.

If anyone has any good news I am sure they could use some. I know a close friend of mine who lives south of me and he has not been able to sleep at all over fear and worry over what this is going to do to his Disability.

Thank you.

MS, so far SS and SSD are off the table. That said, if the GOPTP gets their wish to keep Defense and revenue completely off the table there will be very little choice but to cut deeply into those programs.

I'd suggest making sure you're registered to vote. Make sure you vote in EVERY election between now and November 2012 to make sure you understand any rules changes shoved at you by the GOP. Make sure your voice and the voices of your friends are heard at the ballot box Election Day 2012.

I am registered to vote and voting didn't help in 2010... The problem of 2010 was that people were spooked and easily fooled and frightened by the Tea Baggers saying doom and gloom was about to hit. They also promised jobs in the first 60 days.

You can see what became of that.

Thanks for the answer to my question

What exhausts me, Jody, and disheartens me is the refusal of the Republicans to entertain any compromises and the fact that the Democrats do. No wonder they need a 5 week vacation---it must be tiring being so obstructionist all the time. Who cares about the uncollected revenues of the FAA or the people (over 4000) furloughed?

Jody - Penny wise; pound foolish doesn't even begin to describe the insanity of the GOP/TP. Righties love to scream, yell, shout that government doesn't create jobs. Oh really? What would they call all those laid of construction workers working on airport improvements? Adding to this comedic mess, my local airport improvement project for a new tower was stalled, and weather has now ruined much of the completed construction. Assuming work continues, it will now take additional costs to tear down and replace the destroyed work.

But to assume work will eventually be restarted is a big leap of faith. The GOP/TP have proven to be job killers, not job creators; societal anarchists vs. builders. Since it is unlikely the GOP/TP will approve the funds for the FAA to continue operations, my assumption is the tower will never be finished. Perhaps these bible thumping dolts can adopt it as a symbol representing a modern day Tower of Babylon. After all, their primary goal is to destroy, destroy, destroy.

Cheer up- Obama get to go to to his birthday party fundraiser! You know, the one Jennifer Hudson is headlining? Each person has to give him a $38,500 check as a birthday present?

Man, you democratic little people have some pretty lucrative paper routes.

Are the dems staying behind to continue working?

Not when the RETHUGLICAN Speaker of the House says they are in recess. Oops, you must have forgotten that part right Reality Check?

Reality Check. What a ridiculous comment. The House is majority GOPTP ruled, exactly what can democrats do by staying behind? The Majority made the decision to go into recess. What can the Senate do if the House is not available to pass anything. Sorry, Reality Check, you need a reality check of your own.

So Feisty condones voter fraud and election tampering as long as its HER side of the political spectrum that is doing it. Why is that not surprising.

Also not surprising is the fact that she didn’t study the facts surrounding Kennedy’s election. Anyone that paid attention in high school civics knows that there was and always be suspicion around the election of Kennedy. Whether Kennedy knew it or not, it was common knowledge that his old man bought the election for him, and Nixon out of love for the country took the higher ground and stepped aside.

knows that there was and always be suspicion around the election of Kennedy

OHHH SOOO now 'suspicions' equate to facts these days with the feeble minded!

Keep on posting honey, I haven't laughed so hard in days...

Man, you democratic little people have some pretty lucrative paper routes.

well, I guess if you want to call our jobs "paper routes", then, yeah, they are pretty well paying...ohhh, I get it. You are trying to make it a hypocrisy call. that we stand up for the middle and lower classes while prospering ourselves! oh ok... it doesn't fly, but, ok

knows that there was and always be suspicion around the election of Kennedy

OHHH SOOO now 'suspicions' equate to facts these days with the feeble minded!

But, Feisty, don't you make any allusions to Bush having been appointed in 2000 nor any of his actions that caused much of the problem we are currently in. That's not allowed.
But an election from 50 years ago (it was that long ago? time flew by...) that's fair game.

How about this as an example of voter fraud

http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/mississippi-naacp-leader-sent-to-prison-for-10-counts-of-voter-fraud/

Is it not strange that the media seems to have completely missed this?

How about this as an example of voter fraud

How about you claiming to ignore me? lmao!

You just can't help yourself can you?

PS: caught your comment about my cats the other day - I can assure you they're happy & safe, unlike yours who tried to 'off' himself! ;o)

soooo...nj...we have laws that are being enforced and the lawbreakers are being convicted. You're saying we need more laws?

Just how does this differ from your arguments that we don't need more stringent gun laws? (not that I've seen you make that argument, I'm just assuming you have)

Anyone who actually commits voter fraud needs to be in prison.

Someone in Mississippi actually went to prison for voter fraud.

When will the Koch brothers or their hired minions at Americans for Progress be joining him?

Why don't you investigate Obama's friend and benefactor Soros? He's way bigger than the Koch brothers and even got legislation to benefit him. His funds won't be regulated since they will be a "family" business. No matter what all you people say, Obama's policies have put us in a double dip recession with all his regulations and Obamacare.

First of all, Soros isn't "way bigger than the Koch brothers." At 14th on the Forbes 400 EACH OF the Koch brothers has have again as much wealth in their positions, tied at 5th. http://www.forbes.com/wealth/forbes-400/list

Secondly, since his fund isn't sold to the public the only investor he can cheat is himself. Therefore the correct response to the Glenn Beck talking point that he's not subject to Dodd-Frank would be "well, DUH!!"

Thirdly, this deflection has WHAT to do with the vote manipulation the Kochs are involved in?

Anyone notice that when rich people are greedy bastards they're "creators" who are responsible to no one but themselves, but when rich people actually pull for the little guy Conservatism must destroy them?

Kirk

You will be waiting forever. These jokers can't and won't answer any questions and then they'll accuse you of harassment for trying to follow up with them. Next they will put you on ignore. Such a waste of time on your part and such a waste of everything with them.

He is correct, they will only offer you snide remarks and cut and paste liberal history!

Kirk,

Navy won't talk. He's still confused about his disability check. Did he receive it or not. Did her buy into the progressive party talking points and cry Chicken Little about the government stopping checks, passing on the party line during one of his editorials?

Does NavyBoy really have a disability? At what rank did he retire and how so? Questions he must ponder.

@ Jolly, you're correct about the snide remarks. And if you disagree with them enough, they will attempt to censor you.

They are all pretty good at deflecting the conversations into personal attacks and they attempt to paint you as some cold hearted bastard that hates grandma while they are the compassionate few sticking up for the poor. Once they start the responder cant help himself from attacking back and at that point the progressive gang has won. Its amazing how very few want to actually discuss issues, talk about personal experiences and problem solve. Navy and Fiesty are the worst but because they were the paid bloggers I understood, but for some reason I gave some of the others the benefit of the doubt and that was a mistake.

Hunky,

Got my check on Saturday, well direct deposit. I don't think he will answer you though.

Of course he won't Paul. I think NavyBoy just feels special when he goes off half cocked, spouting the liberal agenda in total.

Someone mentioned he was a LtJG, but I can't verify. But as for retired, I was under the impression one could be medically removed from the service, but not retired until the 20 year minimum was reached. By being medically boarded, a disability is warranted, but not full retirement.

But who knows. NavyBoy won't talk. I must be on his ignore list, which is fine.

Tea bagging, teabillys, the Tealiban …….. The mental giants in the think tank sandbox are so cute ……

What is funny is that, for all their mocking, all their excoriation and vilification ……. has it ever occurred to the sand boxers that the Tea Party is not responsible for any of the mess we are in?

The economic collapse?

Repub or Dem, you can't blame the Tea Party …… they weren't around.

Regardless of how you feel about it, or which side you are on ……. Fannie / Freddie, Bush's wars, the tax rates, the bailouts, Obamacare, the stimulus, the oil spill, the massive spending …… the teaorrists didn't have anything to do with it – they weren't around. (sorry Feisty, but do feel free to steal it …. how about the "Wasilla hillbilly" being a teaorrist in "CFM boots?")

The Tearants have definetly effected politics since the 2010 elections and they are certainly effecting the conversation today …….. but again what problem that we are dealing with have they created? Has the Senate even proposed any legislation that they have blocked? Have they defeated any Obama budgets?

Or, is it their fault that Obama and Reid are too inept, too gutless to even try any legislation because they don't have complete control of government? Obama, Reid and the MSM cannot handle a little grass roots group that doesn't even have a leader? That's pretty pathetic for a guy that says he can lower the tides, heal the planet, huh?

The debt ceiling? Do the sand-in-their-Huggies crowd even understand base-line budgeting, how everything grows automatically by COL adjustments + 7.5% -10% every year? Congress says they cut $1 trillion when the bottom line will show we added $7-$8 trillion over the next decade.

Isn't that how we got to this point, that and symbolic good ole boy deals where the costs/cuts can is packed with pork and kicked 10 years down the road?

Nope the Tea Party isn't part of this charade that created these problems.

We have $730,000,000,000.00 unobligated dollars sitting in various agencies – money they couldn't even spend and they now, not only expect our children to borrow more to give them – but 10+% more ……. And liberals load their diapers at the mere suggestion we cut 1% off the increase!

….. insanity …… but that insanity is the old Beltway big government, not the Tea Party.

Obama talks about a "balanced approach" …… So the Tea Party says how about using the word balance with the word budget, 2/3's of Americans agree – and the dems table everything ……. Obama threatens vetoes ….. it's DOA …… WON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT IT – NO DEBATE – NOTHING.

We have a guy that has out spent every president in history, that has the worst recovery in history, a community organizer that is now reduced to going on national TV to tell everyone to call their congressman, that is in charge of the world's biggest economy that happens to be in a crisis and he doesn't even have a plan, no budget, but heck, maybe he can tweet us a clue some day ….. and the Tea guys and girls are being called terrorists by liberals on TV …… for just changing the conversation?

anyway …… this post has been way too long …… time for the "more cute names we call the tealiban" game.

Bob, that was awesome, and yes Feisty and the rest will steal the 'teaorrist' bit.

Where were these Tea Baggers when W. Bush policies were spending us into a hole? Then in February 2009 they pop their heads and form the TEA Bagger clubs, one month after President Obama takes office.

Jody:

I think you may have answered your own question. Why now when it is President Obama but Bush got a free ride??

Well corky, I'm sure the TEA Party was getting formed during the last year of the Bush years. Do you really think an organization can form in a month time? Come on, think about it. Yes, Bush was spending with a lot of help from the Democratic Congress, you probably forgot about those people, buy you man Obama sure did speed things up didn't he? 4.5 Trillion in less than 3 years?

Don't forget, Job1, it was also after the Koch brother's funding of all of the 'grass roots' movements. I'll never forget the oil companies bussing their employees to the 'grass roots' pro-oil energy rallies, with pay, and many of them wearing their company shirts.

And they complain about Soros? Crocodile tears.

Paul-Florida,

Since you are so fond of name calling, how's this one - Douche Nozzle. Let's not forget WHY Obama had to spend that money - wait for it - FAILED BUSH POLICIES THAT CAUSED AN ECONOMIC RECESSION. How quickly you forget douche nozzle. Oh and let's also note that Obama put the cost of the BUSH WARS on the books, furhter increasing the perception of his deficit spending.

So true Matthew. Thanks

Job1. I've asked that many times on FR. Where was the Tea Party outrage over the massive deficits, unfunded spending and debt created by the GOP during the Bush years? Since conservatives never bother to respond and if they do, they deflect to some other unrelated subject, I have concluded that the Tea Partiers didn't care because it was republicans doing the spending.

The great myth the GOP has given Americans since Reagan was elected is the idea they are fiscally responsible. They have not been since VooDoo became the economic driver, and Grover Nordquist became King of the GOP. Clinton cleaned up the mess left by Reagan and Bush 41; Bush 43 came along and created an even bigger pile of fiscal irresponsibility. Now the GOPTP claims to be upset about the deficit and the debt--it is a myth; they are only upset because they no longer sit in the White House.

Great Point Jody.

Thanks

That's good bryan, Douche Nozzle, very good. See Bryan, here's where your wrong, Obama said the recession was over in June 2009. He also said the Summer of Recovery of 2010 and Part II in 2011. This is the first I heard that the wars were put on the books, so I looked it up and he did mention it in 2009, nothing after that, so I have to assume that it's again another lie.

Now for the name Corky, does that bother you? Do you know what it means? Cheer up tiger, or is tiger a baaaad name? haha

If there’s one thing that’s been made clear over the last few days it’s that drinking the tea is a danger to our government. It’s a danger to our economy, too, with Conservatives injecting a tanker full of that uncertainty they love to talk about into our markets. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43976115/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/

The cure, as our friend California Tom likes to remind us, is “to vote.” Congresswoman Gabby Giffords proved that some of our public servants still take that seriously, interrupting her recovery from near death at the hands of one of her constituents to make sure her voice was heard in what was potentially a very close vote.

Voting isn’t everyone’s friend, however. It certainly isn’t a friend of the Tea Parties. For proof of that you need look no further than the behavior of Koch-funded Tea Party group Americans for Prosperity. AFP has been working to take away the voice of voters in Wisconsin, attempting to convince registered Democrats there to vote TOO LATE TO BE COUNTED. http://www.politico.com/blogs/davidcatanese/0811/AFP_Wisconsin_ballots_have_late_return_date.html?showall This same group has worked very hard to make it more difficult for others to vote as well, especially those whose votes might not please the wealthy elites who run the Conservative Movement.

Please, take your right to vote seriously. Using it will cure a lot of what’s wrong with our country. The Tea Party is only one of those things.

At least the Tea Party got us to talk about our problems in the open. Like it or not they started the most important conversation we will ever have as a nation. Liberal Dems just go whistling past the graveyard.

I saw one Democrat joker yesterday still railing about corporate jets!!! The amount of money saved there would have been spent in the time he took to talk about it.

John B, is it those same wealthy elites names Soros, Gates, Buffet and Pritzker? Is it those same wealthy elites living in Hollywood and the rest of California that fund the progressive agenda that is driving this country into economic ruin? The three largest progressive states, California, NY and Illinois. How are they doing economically? Has the big government spending philosophy worked well in these states? Have the middle class fared better here with economic policies that are consistent with your views of leveling the playing field or has the education gap, immigration, union employment with no reward for merit, performance and upward mobility, government subsidized living, state regulations that make it hard to impossible for small businesses to be created and thrive etc continue to keep the income and wealth gap where it is but with fewer jobs and less prospects for economic success?

What about the Soros funded Moveon, think progress and other organizations he funds to promote your agenda, is that better than the Koch funded agenda? Are you advocating the elimination of both wealthy elite funded movements or just ones you dont like?

..

after last week and this past weekend leading up to today, I kind of feel the same way Feisty. Glad our elected officials can take some much deserved time off, maybe they will get to work on jobs and that economy thing by next winter.

Kirk,

I would say the one he doesn't like, but that's just me........

That was the most amazing thing Ive heard Feisty say in Months!

As much as I hate to agree with REB, he's right. The Tea Party has started the most important conversation we can have at this point. From there we differ.

The most important conversation conversation we can have is about how wealthy Conservatives set up an astroturf movement to ramp up their attack on the middle class. It has to do with how their project known as ALEC cuts open debate right out of the governmental process by delivering canned legislation ready to use our own government against us. It has to do with how a corrupt Supreme Court majority legalized bribery. It has to do with how these efforts have been successful enough that these wealthy Conservatives feel empowered to wage their war against the rest of us at an unprecedented level, a full scale war on average Americans.

It has to do with how there is PROOF that one of the principal organizations within the Tea Party constellation feels free to openly try to subvert democracy through vote manipulation--and grass roots Conservatives are sufficiently approving of these efforts that they see no reason to defend it beyond "Yeah? well, Kennedy did it...maybe...there's no proof but we all say it happened."

That's sad.

John B, I am no Tea Party supporter although I respect how this grass roots movement has framed the economic debate and brought it to the forefront. I wouldnt support any such process by wealthy conservatives if it were true and I would never use kennedy as an excuse that if it were done once it should be done now. I think your full scale war and your hyperbolic use of the language is a little scary and you realize that your conspiracy theories and scare tactics are exactly the same ones being used by the religious right who think the secularists in this country are using a concerted effort along with the left wing media to destroy their version of morality. Its these over the top robert ludlum views where you lose rational fiscal conservatives like me.

Then Kirk, I trust you'll be upset at the following;

Americans for Prosperity is sending absentee ballots to Democrats in at least two Wisconsin state Senate recall districts with instructions to return the paperwork after the election date.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/davidcatanese/0811/AFP_Wisconsin_ballots_have_late_return_date.html?showall

I'm glad we agree that distorting the electoral process in this way is a despicable plan, and as funders of Americans for Prosperity the Koch brothers are certainly responsible for the actions of their organization.

Of course I would be. I dont trust the facts coming from some of the web sites funded by Soros as they skew the facts as much as the right but if for the moment if what you say is true, of course I would be. I am not a political party hack and dislike alot about the republican party. I have tried to tell you that before and consider myself a fiscal conservative and many of my actual first hand experiences and knowledge dont line up with your wide generalizations about so called wealthy conservatives. I also know what goes on here in Chicago by the democratic machine so any attempts you make to paint one party as "BAD" and the other party as "GOOD" is generally my point to you. To be consistent we need to apply the same standards without rose colored glasses to everyone. It does no good to argue about the extremes because the vast majority of us are somewhere in between.

Kirk, that came from Politico, where the proprietors are on record saying "Drudge rules our world." Soros has no connection to this whatsoever. PDF copy of the ACTUAL AMERICANS FOR PROGRESS flier which is in the possession of Politico here; http://www.politico.com/static/PPM187_ballotapp.html

I'm not a Romney supporter- but, come on. Having a candidate- any candidate, from either party- weighing in on something this critical would have garnered just as much criticism.

Waiting until a deal was struck to weigh in was the right decision, as you all claimed when then candidate Obama refused to make a statement on Russia bullying Georgia during 2008. The fact that it was a no-brainer to make a statement of support for Georgia notwithstanding, your claims at that time were that it was inappropriate for Obama to comment. So be it.

The fact that OBAMA absented himself from the process when stamping his feet and yelling did not get him what he wanted is a much bigger issue than Romney waiting until there was a deal to comment.

Seriously, how much proof do you need that Obama should not be in the Oval Office? That he knows a lot about campaigning, but nothing about governing?

Just wait til Mitt spends some time here in Pa. and the folks get to know him a little better, Nash---we'll see how his numbers are then. We now have a Republican governor who is decimating education while refusing to consider a tax on oil & gas extraction (we're the only state without one), so I don't think Pa. is going to be friendly to Republicans in 2012.

Governor Tom Corbett is a joke like the rest of the latest crop of Rethuglican governors. It's like they are all trying to out-do themselves in destroying their states. I cannot wait for his temr to expire. He'll be packing his bags for sure.

How can these idiots claim to be for strengthing education when they are slashing education budgets left and right? What can i look forward to for my children when they're ready for school in 3 - 5 years? Why should i have to pay taxes to build the schools, only to find them robbed of textbooks, materials and most importantly - TEACHERS?

*waves to Steeler Fan*

*sweeps no jo dump off my front porch*

*smiles at Bryan's observation . . . another thinking American*

*sweeps no jo dump off my front porch*

Smells like Mr. Me First Bill has been sharing his broccoli with her... lol

Steelerfan, You are in the same boat as we are here in Michigan, the previous Dem admin had not passed a budget bill in 8 years under Jenny from the block Grandholm. Mr Snyder did it in 6 months. I know all of the liberals think that these republicans are evil mean people who want to limit the gimme gimme gang's take, but in reality there are not enough of you to actually do anything by yourselves. Im reserving the rest of my comments until we see the results of the "recall" elections. If there are a lot of republicans recalled I will give some credence to your thought process. I do remember reading that there has only been 1 single politician recalled since 1929.

Question:

I'm wondering who in the Republican field running for President do most of the Republican posters who post here support.

Job1, you keep asking that and no one is going to bother answering you. You are really just kind of sad, ya know?

Why don't you go back to blaming Bush. I never get tired of seeing that posted here 20 times a day from you.

Good, I'm glad that you see the truth that this whole debt problem is due to W. Bush and the Republicans.

Well, jolly---our governor ran on a platform that said he would balance our budget by eliminating wasteful spending and the voters fell for it. He then put through a budget that decimated education and other spending and refused to consider any tax increases, even in the growing natural gas industry. We had balanced budgets under Ed Rendell for 8 years. I am not seeing how jobs are growing in Pa. and I am seeing lost education opportunites, through the university level.

I don't know what adjective to put on Republicans---after what we've witnessed nationally and in my own state, rigidly doctrainnaire is the kindest thing I can say.

Steeler - to jump on jolly's back here, Rick Snyder did in 6 months what Jennifer Granholm could not do in 8 years. Even the Liberal Detroit Free Press praised Snyder for getting his budget done on time. The "Draconian cuts" from education that were wailed about by the Left in Michigan amounted to $300 out of a $10,400/pupil budget. Don't really think that is gonna shut too many schools down.

So what exactly does "decimated education" mean in Pennsylvania?

Nash---I'm liking the broom to sweep away No Joe and all the other naysayers! We can't let them get us down or deter us from our agenda.

"Waiting until a deal was struck to weigh in was the right decision" - of course it was, you couldn't have him define a position and then have it turn out to be the same one Obama comes out in favor of.

Right, he is nothing if not a man of his convictions...more bluntly, he is nothing.

White Collar-Jenny destroyed the Great State of Michigan. It will take time to fix Michigan, thus why I left. I seen Kwame was released today, when will he run for Mayor?

Unforunately Frank, it is highly unlikely.

As proof, reference VP Biden's comments regarding the Tea Party yesterday.

It is ugly and just going to get uglier until November 2012.

God help us all.

Grimey

Agree. Don't think it will change the conversation however. Very sad.

You guys need to stop trying to crush my youthful idealism!!! ;-)

Sorry Grimey but with folks like the LibsRUS crowd using the Tea bagging, teabillys, the Tealiban and whatever other "imaginative" insult Think Progress etc dreams up and guys like Biden saying that the Republicans acted like terrorists, the hopes for a civil conversation is doomed - youthful idealism or not.

What we need is a real conversation which the Tea Party people actually started. There is hope for youthful idealism in that.

Yeah, I'm sorry about that too, Frank. Keep hope alive, brother.

LOL...no problem guys...was just trying to be a bit humorous..hence the ";-)"

You guys forget that you coined the term teabaggers before somebody went and looked it up. Come on take ownership for your own sins as well. Oh I forgot being responsible for your own actions is not allowed in your party.

Frank:

Morning. You hang onto that positive mental attitude and ignore them. They just try to take everybody down to their level.

This should be real interesting come November. Have a great day.

Frank, you're a likeable guy, but if you vote Republican in 2012, you should have your head examined. The Teapublicans nearly cost us our triple A credit rating, what, please tell me, is "fiscally conservative" about THAT?

Navy said,

Oh I forgot being responsible for your own actions is not allowed in your party.

Hate to sink your battleship but how soon we forget...

How bout dear ole Ted "the swimmer" Kennedy or Bill "the cigar" Clinton... the fact of the matter is both sides have problems so don't bring that "hollier than thou" attitude out because denying the Democrats are any different is lying and you know it!!

Bad news there Amy. The AAA rating is in jeopardy because we have so much debt, not because of a potential default. Check the reports today, even with the Debt Ceiling raise the rating is in trouble.

See, you can't add 4 trillion dollars in 2.5 years and not have consequences.

But that, in a nutshell, is the problem with liberal ideas. It is always those darn unintended consequences.

Hi Amy...

Hope you are enjoying that weather up there...might be the coolest place in the country right now!! And thanks for the likeable comment!! :-)

Latest word from S&P is that the potential downgrade in the US credit rating was not due to the potential for a default but rather the continued accumulation of debt. All politicians of all stripes deserve the blame for that one as the debt has been rung up by Republican presidents, Democratic presidents, Republican congresses, Democratic congresses, and split congresses.

Hey Frank, we better stop it or some will think we are coordinating our posts.

For the record, I wasn't happy when Bush was ringing up all that debt either.

Have a great day!

Hey WCA, we better stop it or some will think we are coordinating our posts.

(Oh shoot...wrong account...delete, delete)

LOL...kidding. It does make you wonder though how many people here have multiple accounts.

I certainly loved seeing her greeting people and conversing. I could have done with out all the gurlfreind stuff from Ms Wasserman-shultz!

Frank,

Shared responsibility for the debt and deficit crisis? Say it isn't so....That being said it is a relief that some of the responsible adults in Washington are actually seeking a shared resolution to this problem, while others just sit and point fingers, while others deny there is an issue at all. Love me some politics. Hate me some recession, but hold on people this ride isn't over yet.

Its funny how it turns out how "tone down the rhetoric" seems to have been a one sided demand. I'd love a dollar for every time I've seen the republicans called domestic terrorists in the last, shall we say, 6 weeks. Retirement wouldn't be a pipe dream anymore.

Honestly, we could all stand to find our big girl panties here. Odumma, Obammy, etc, have no more place in an adult conversation than Teabagger, Teapublican, Rethuglican, etc. If we can't have a reasonable discussion without slinging insults, how do we expect our elected leaders to behave any better?

The Tea Baggers are now called AAA Domestic Terrorists.

Sen Reid is the reason the debt increase wasn't discussed until the very last minute. He is on RECORD in Dec 2010 stating that he wouldn’t bring up the debt ceiling because “We want the Republicans to be responsible for raising the debt ceiling” So instead of raising the debt ceiling when he and his party had control of the House, Senate and the White House, displaying that Reid puts party above country.

The continuing budget resolution expires 30 Sep 2011. This fight will begin again in just a few weeks. Why are these senators getting paid when they refuse to do their jobs? In fact we learned on Morning Joe this morning the senate hasn’t submitted a budget proposal in over 820 days. It is obvious that the democrats will not vote on a budget this year because that would give their political opponents something to use against them in campaigns.

As ridiculous as some of you make think the House of Representatives budget is, at least we know where each and every congressman stands on the budget, what they would cut and what they would not cut, who wants to raise taxes and who doesn’t. Every representative has taken a stand and as Joe keeps saying “has taken the hard vote” which will be used against them during the upcoming campaign. Unfortunately we can’t say that for any United States Senator.

Harry Reid continues to show that he puts the democratic party before the country.

Well said Janet. Unfortunately the LibsRUS crowd here can't or won't understand this. Can't have a budget if Reid doesn't put one forward in response to the House passed Ryan plan. When they had both the house and senate they didn't need to worry hence the two years without anything. No they are at a loss to do anything and show their true colors.

Assuming Senate Republicans wouldn't filibuster a budget originating in that house (as they've been filibustering the budget for the last 2 years) the House of Representatives would certainly reject such a bill because (listen carefully here) ALL FINANCE BILLS ORIGINATE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House produced a Tea Party wish list, not a budget. Now that they're done playing maybe they'll get to work and actually fulfill their constitutional responsibilities.

they estimated a mere 90,000 independent non government support jobs have been "lost" until they fund the FAA again and construction and business can get back on track.

Yeah, enjoy the break, to hell with jobs and the economy that were your talking points yesterday afternoon as being the most important and urgent issue at hand. No worries they will get to it by December or so therefore all you folks needing jobs just hold out til our vacation is over!

4000 workers furloughed from one government department, and

NOBODY NOTICES!!!

You think maybe they are not so essential to the health and wellbeing of the country?

How many other departments could cut at least that many people?

You guys don't even realize that you are making the wrong argument.

no joe, no bo, nj

and I believe the point for me was, congress needs 5 weeks off, really? There are some issues that need to be attended to don't you think? Jobs economy... They said yesterday how important jobs and the economy are and they desperately need to get to work on it, then GET TO WORK. Kind of irresponsible to leave so many out of work when they could have taken care of it now.

I agree and you are right about downsizing a lot of the bloated agencies, they need to be made to work like it does out here, efficient and manageable. I know how there is way too much bureaucracy in even the most irrelevant of the agencies. I hope once this trend to stop spending will make them look inward finally. The cuts do not have to be on the American people, they could be in administrative and dual agencies. Like when I was in school, in the summers I worked for the local municipality in the water department. They hired three people for every position in case one got tired or needed a break. I know, I think we all know

Robert 1960:

Do not forget that Boehner said yesterday on TV that it is time to get back to creating jobs. When is he going to do that? While on the golf course or at the 19th hole??

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

yeah I noticed it was the Tea Party mantra yesterday, how "Urgent the American People want us to work on jobs and the economy", and this said AFTER Boehner decided to take 5 weeks off! I don't wish anyone harm but if he gets his putter caught in the ball washer I would enjoy the story...

If you are truly interested in why the jobs are still contracting, read this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-26/carter-economic-stagnation-explained-at-30-000-feet.html

Getting congress out of town for five weeks is the best antidote.

Cutting the number of regulatory agencies, the number of regulators, and the number of regulations will go a long way toward encouraging the employers.

Obama's way is a proven failure. Time to try something sensible.

Congress taking a 5 week break is a double edged sword... On the up side, at least they can't screw things up any worse for the next 5 weeks (no accounting for what the President pulls off without them, of course, but at least he'll be busy campaigning so maybe he will even remain relatively harmless during the break), but there is a whole lot more work they SHOULD be getting done before they even consider a break. The FAA situation is merely a symptom of the bigger issue of having never passed a budget for this fiscal year and there's been no activity on a 2012 budget short of mercilessly attacking the one that passed the House but hasn't come anywhere near the Senate floor for a vote. Do we even bother pretending we'll have a budget for 2012 or is it a waste of time?

Remember, W. Bush and the Republicans created this debt problem. Facts are Facts.

See Navy's post 1.18

What is he - your oracle??? Ha Ha

Robert, I totlaly agree with you. But I think all the voters will get is "Sorry I can't come to the phone right now, please leave a message..."

Robert,

Well said. Congress, get back to work and no recess until you finish you work.

Robert 1960: Touche' Very nice.

Many of the posters ranting about the "Tea Party" obviously have no idea whatsoever about what the "Tea-Party" endorses

I'm going with bigotry, intolerance and intractability.

MotorRicker:

We know what the tea party stands for and it is un-American. You are the one that should go back and look at some of the videos on the types of signs and their rhetoric that they used at these gatherings. Be careful though they are packing heat.

Really how dare those Tea Party members go to Washington and live up to the principles that got them elected. How dare the Tea Party members want the government to live within its means. How dare the Tea Party members demand a solution and not just a deal to address the fiscal insanity in Washington.

Hey Dick - Let's go with accountability, hard work, morals, ethics & integrity. Not free cheese and welfare.

Richard you are sodo wrong!

The Tea Party Movement is here to stay, and this mess with the debt ceiling just put a spotlight on the Tea Party Movement and people like what they see. Times they are a changin.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Bob Dylan

Navy Have you lost the last remaining brain cells you have. The Tea Party is not un-american. Just because you and others don't agree with them doesn't make them un-american. Just because conservatives disagree with the President, liberals and SEIU does not make them un-american. I actually have been to a Tea Party Event and an SEIU event just for the experience. Difference between the 2. Tea Party left the place cleaner then it was. Everyone was polite to each other. No one talked or gave speeches on killing people. SEIU place was trashed, people went around talking of killing people like Supreme Court Justice Thomas, Congressman Cantor and other conservatives, special hatred especially to Governor Palin. All those signs you point to not evident in tea party event, but very evident at SEIU event. Tea Party People did pack heat but it was peaceful, SEIU people actually beat up people who didn't agree with them. Have you been to one of these events, if not stop espousing thinkprogressive, moveon and msnbc hate mongers. I recall that the main event was when all the dems led by Pelosi marched to the Capitol for the passing of Obamacare, and there was allegedly some racial comment said, also remember a $10k reward for video or audio evidence of said comments. With democratic people filming the march just in case something happened so they could vilify the Tea party. Anyone collect that reward? No, why because it did not happen. Go Ahead Louis j throw the race card but the fact is no one stepped forward with any evidence.

Also I noticed that someone asked about your rank and you had a small hissy fit and wouldn't say your rank. Don't see why you couldn't say what rank you retired at unless there was something, say maybe you didn't retire and you get paid to blog here. I left the Marine Corps as a Sergeant and my wife retired as a Gunnery Sergeant. I am not afraid to say my rank. I don't care if you do or don't but I do not see why you reacted that way.

Rick,

Is is fair to call Sarah Palin Governor? I mean she never finished her term. She was too busy chasing the "American Dream" - fame and fortune. She basically abandoned the electorate in Alaska. Don't you agree?

Navy,

So, its OK to call people who think differently, domestic terrorists?

I am an American, and anything after that doesn't matter.

Yes they are - just open your eyes and look around.

Richard you'll be waiting until the cows come home for a response to that. I told him about my service and he never responded to that either.

Your post was right on and probably lost on these idiots who only try to trash those that don't share their same brand of Americanism. Yes what they have is a form of Americanism but it is not ours and never will be. It is the worst form in that it tries to control everybody by giving them things that that haven't worked by taking them from those that have. All in the guise of helping those that can't help themselves which they believe is 98% of the country.

They spout the same crap about the 50% that don't pay Federal Income Tax (you have to be specific or else they will jump all over you about how they pay sales tax and FICA), but now that they reached the point where 50% have no skin in the game they feel confident none of them will vote to raise their own taxes.

What a shame to have a philosophy and work so hard to have everyone not work.

C'est la vie. At least the Tea Party started a national conversation. Let's hope it continues and gets these Liberals thrown the rest of the way out of Cngress and the White House next year.

Richard - note that Navy responded at 11:25 to somebody else just 2 posts below yours calling him out. He is a punk and will never change.

Bryan E - Sarah Palin was duly elected Govenor so you can always call her that just like Weiner is still called Congressman. The fact that Palin was chosen by McCain to run for VP and then chose to pursue the American Dream of fame and fortune and not sex with twitter partners is of no concern. I expect your idea of the American Dream is "I want to be poor and nothing special". You seem to be doing well going after that.

Bryan She was elected as Governor and deserves the title. I would do the same for anyone elected to office with one exception. I refer to him as Governor Moonbeam not Governor Brown. Weiner resigned but he was still voted in therefore still Congressman.

Reb Thanks. Navy almost never responds to any solid question, nor do feisty, jody, louisj, and others unless they quote thinkprogressive, moveon, etc. as their solid sources of info, which is a joke.

Anna Molly is different story. I enjoy reading the back and forth she has with others, I know in the past we have had a few. Despite the fact that she is a liberal, she does appear to be honest, thoughtful and nice lady.

Reb-numbers,

Weiner resigned amidst a scandal. Bad analogy. Palin just quit. Elected or not, she never completed the term and she QUIT of her own volition.

And do me a favor REB-numbers, don't pretend to know who i am and what my ambitions are. As i would not do the same of you. That's petty and childish.

I didn't say I knew who you were I just wrote that I EXPECTED that your idea of the American Dream is "I want to be poor and nothing special".

Oh wait you make just over $80K per year and get 4 weeks vacation and are complaining about fiscal responsibility. I told you to run for Congress. You didn't answer. Guess that isn't one of your ambitions.

Care to correct me where I went wrong???

nontax paying bottom feeders

I doubt if Exxon Mobile and GE will try very hard to get the president elected. That is who you were referring to wasn't it? None tax paying bottom feeders?

Please don't campaign MORE Mr. Obama burning up money and fuel on AF1 on FUNDRAISERS

Stop spending MORE and MORE EVERY YEAR

Restore fiscal sanity

PAY DOWN the debt

REDUCING THE DEFICIT IS NOT ENOUGH

Vote Bachmann 2012

.....And you are the "adult in the room" with your name calling???? Classy.

Wow Pat you continue to drag your side down the terlit!

Wiser, The problem is the party system which has been brainwashing the people for a long time. I have never belonged to the party system, I am first and foremost a U.S. Citizen. If the people would start thinking of their country instead of the party or themselves we just might see a change. Like you, I am hoping that the pitiful excuses for officials in Washington have opened their eyes. It's time to vote for the person not the party, which most continue to do. Please keep complaining, maybe if enough of us do we can change the rests attitude.

Wiser with Age,

Frustrated is an understatement. I feel we have been played, big time.

While they are off on vacation, we are here stuck with the crap that they just passed. At the end of the day the president and lawmakers got what they wanted, to extend the ceiling until after the 2012 elections. Our lawmakers cant leave DC fast enough, and once again we are let shaking our heads in disbelief.

So blatant, I have never been so discussed with our government as I am now. Seriously, they left town or out campaigning and all the numbers on the economy suck. If that doesn't scream for a change I dont no what does.

True - but there are no jobs bills in congress and they have done nothing to spur this economy other they ask for more tax cuts - which do nothing to spur economic growth - the republican myth since Regan.

Gingerbread Mamma,

So predictable and pathetic. Why the need to label people?

Why the need to label people?

Ask your own side - they're the ones who trained us!

So predictable and pathetic

Great post Gingerbread Mamma - notice how she couldn't dispute anything you said and instead went straight to 'labeling' people! LOL

I'll dispute it and I'm not a party member, never have been. This brain washed mentality of party members is what has caused this country grief. BOTH SIDES are corrupt and could care less about the people, they only care about what's in it for themselves. Any of you who believe otherwise have been under a rock for the last month.

Great Post Gingerbread Mamma.

Come on Feisty you know you have never been "trained" Well after the potty training! You did do that didnt you! Hell that words not even in your dictionary!

Come on, you can do better than that. But a wonderful cut and paste job worthly of the Progressive Party line.

@Jobs1, you asked whom many conservatives would consider voting for during a previous post. I would conclude the answer to be: ABO. Anyone But O.

Gingerbread Mama: Add to what Republicans do care about the following:

1. FOX News, the Ministry of Propaganda of right wing, fanatic, extremist elements of corporate America.

2. Republicans care about remaining the political arm of corporate America.

Agree. And you have my vote.

Considering support for Obama is just like "thinking of buying a ticket for the Titanic after it hit the iceberg!"

As hard as it may be for some to accept or realize... Obama's ship is sinking faster than ever. By this time next year, he should be packing his bags.

Every single demographic group from far left Marxists (originally known as Democrats, which was before they changed their identity to Liberals and that was before they began calling themselves Progressives) to the "middle of the road Independents, Conservative Democrats and even a growing Conservative surge in the Black community" have ALL been steadily moving away from Mr. CLOWARD & PIVEN Strategy; Mr. Marxist; Mr. Saul Alinsky and Mr. Community Organizer in Chief.

Sure... he still has a few remaining supporters left... but "those who voted for him in '08" keep FLEEING from him like rats from a burning building.

Big Campaign donors??? Oops? I wonder why they suddenly just "slammed on the brakes?"

Moses and Jesus Christ couldn't get elected with his dismal track record, dominated by his entire term of massive unemployment, staggering Bank failures and pathetically weak Economy which all continue their downward spiral under his watch?

Loser in Chief?

Obama in 2012?

That is as close to DELUSIONAL as it gets... but dream on if it makes you happy.

Keep getting your talking points from Glenn Beck, Speedy.

Even at the end of the worst crisis Republicans could manage to fabricate President Obama's approval rating is currently 42%, vs 44% for Reagan and 46% for Clinton at this point in their presidencies...all within the margin of error from one another. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

For those who aren't students of Mr Beck, a "Cloward-Piven strategy" speaks of artificially stressing the system until it collapses and there's no choice but to make major changes...exactly what the GOPTP is trying to do to the budget.

Remember, whatever Conservatives accuse their opposition of doing they're usually doing themselves.

best post I've ever read on this site

I second that.

You're kidding, right?

This post just advocated Oligarchy and Plutocracy as the answer for this nation.

Deportation now:

Absolutely "outstanding post!"

it is always refreshing and encouraging to listen to people speak profound words of truth!

Keep 'em coming!!!

They aren't kidding, Da Noid. Conservatives believe so fully in their religion they believe themselves more fit to govern than the majority.