Looks like they needed Democrat support. Even Gabby showed up. Not sure why there was a need for compromise. Maybe the Democrats should have held out for something they wanted in the package.

You're right Sueb... it won't be forgotten. The Tea Party did exactly what they were supposed to do. They voted no on principle. I realize many people don't understand that. I realize that many people think that adding to our debt is a good thing. I also know that most would rather take the easy path... and in this case, it was the easy path. We've just signed up for the largest tax hike in history but I'll bet you didn't know that, did you? Who's going to pay the $17 Trillion debt?

Go ahead and be mad at the Tea Party. Be mad at them because they voted no to raising the debt ceiling. Be mad at them for doing the right thing. I know, you think they are traitors by voting no to placing more debt on this country's shoulders... just remember they were the ones that stood for their belief that this country owes too much money and has become beholden to countries like China, Japan, Great Britian... etc... We may have won our freedom in 1776, but we have sold it down the river.

This bill has nohting to do with adding to our debt and it doesn't raise the amount we owe one iota. It allows us to pay what we already owe. If the tea party had made this stand for a budget bill, I wouldn't agree with them; but, I'd understand what they were doing. What they did here is hold the US hostage to their demands, created a national crisis and almost plunged the world into economic chaos. Yes, I'm angry with them; but, I'm angrier at the republicans for indulging them and the democrats for capitulating.

Brianb: You're right Sueb... it won't be forgotten. The Tea Party did exactly what they were supposed to do.

The tea party, which really isn't any party, certainly has had its core values on display. The unrelenting attacks on them by the Democrats, the media, and even some Republicans shows that they have gotten to the core problem of the country, the over spending by the government. The old style way of doing things is over, no longer can pols spend their way to re-election, no longer can pols be bought off with a project in their district, with a contribution from a lobbying firm in their campaign war-chest, or a chairmanship on a committee.

And this deal? This one worked out with Obama? This is just the start. It's actually quite a mild start. The real heavy lifting will start with the reform of the entitlements. And on that, the tea party will do the job again, take the criticism again, and move this country forward again.

All I can say Sueb1 is that you are in perfect alignment with the republican leaders at the top.. not the politicians, but the moneymen. They hate the Tea Party just as much as you do.

Sueb.

This bill certainly does have everything to do with raising our debt. We just increased our credit limit by $2 trillion dollars. That means we can borrow another $2 trillion. We will have to pay that back one day. As for the "cuts" that are supposed to offset that borrowing --- there aren't any.

President Obama told you this money is only going to pay the bills we already owe,but that's just yet another sound-good story he's telling you. This money is enabling the government to continue to do what they do -- spend beyond their means.

The Tea Party - love 'em or hate 'em - didn't create this crisis, Sueb1. The Tea Party arrived after the crisis began and the crisis has been festering with out of control spending for the last 10 years. Career Republicans and Democrats created the crisis. If it weren't for the Tea Party, deficit spending would have gone on as business as usual. They've forced action. A weak and pitiful attempt at real action, but action and awareness none the less.

Think of the Tea Party as your parents when you were a teenager. You hated their rules and disregarded their advice when they were giving it to you only to find out years later --- they were right all along.

The Teapublicans voted NO based on ignorance. Pure and Simple.

They will vote to defund Education and Planned Parenthood, further eroding COMMON SENSE solutions to the pervasive ignorance that they not only embrace; but rather celebrate.

Clara KCMO
The Teapublicans voted NO based on ignorance. Pure and Simple.

They will vote to defund Education and Planned Parenthood, further eroding COMMON SENSE solutions to the pervasive ignorance that they not only embrace; but rather celebrate.

And the 95 Democrats voted NO based on........

Tea Baggers are nothing more than Terrorist.

The lack of conservative understanding about the debt ceiling has spread to FR. The debt ceiling is money spent. Money spent plus interest which was authorized by every single previous Congress with their budget approvals. Many of the same republicans now fighting against raising the debt ceiling are the same ones who voted for the budgets that gave us the massive debt. To now say we're not going to pay that debt is irresponsible no matter which side does it.

What is more irresponsible is the GOPTP's, ala Grover Nordquist's insane Pledge, refusal to be serious about deficit and debt. Serious legislators would agree to revenue increases, closing tax loopholes and "socialised" farm and corporate welfare tax subsidies, to get deficits under control.

When our war budget is 119 Billion a year, You would think somebody who was really interested in lowering our spending enough to shut down our government on principle would be interested in ending the wars.

I read a statement from bachmann and she promised to never cut and run on those poor women in Afghanistan.

So which is it, you are worried about spending or you are not?

You would think an item that cost us 2.7 Trillion dollars added to the debt. Now there would be an amount we would want to get off the debt. Well the tax cuts to the richest, it's OK to keep adding that debt because that money goes to the rich.

So which is it, you are worried about spending or you are not?

If the tea party is unconcerned about the war and tax cuts being added to the budget, do you really believe that they are standing up for a principle of ending the run-a-way spending?

I do know they have an agenda to never raise taxes on the richest again. Just how does this slow run-a-way spending when the tax cuts add to the debt?

You really think the tea party is worried about spending on principle or fulfilling their corporates masters commands?

Yea Sue I am angry as hell also. Your capitulating with the Tea Party is a real knee slapper. As if anyone but those of us who actually discuss what we in the Tea Party want has a clue. The progressives and RINOs in Congress feed the same rhetoric as always, to decrease spending the only programs big enough to help decrease this massive budget would be Medicare, SS and defense on the discretionary side. So for now lets raise the debt ceiling and worry about the small crap later, my butt. What the Tea Party wants is for the Congress to take every expenditure paid by the federal government, lay it on the table, debate it if you think it is required, explain it to the American people why it is required to be paid for with the citizens hard earned money, and live with the consequencies. Get rid of the pork and get rid of the representatives that create it. Then look at SS, Medicare and defense. The Tea Party wants the government to be responsible and accountable for its actions, Now, not tomorrow, Now. I personally do see anything wrong that

glenn

And the 95 Democrats voted NO based on........

A self centered desire to be re-elected in 'at risk' districts? Or ignorance,...

...and to the next person who wants to complain about President Obama negotiating a deal simply to save his job, ask yourself this...

Isn't that what Speaker Boehner did by scrapping the "Grand Bargain" and negotiating a deal with the Radical Right Teapublicans?

Da Noid...bingo!!! exactly what he did!

Narrow view if you ask me. Look at the vote count. It passed easily. It was totally bipartisan. They didn't need the Tea Party members vote in order to pass this. You know what's really funny? Out of the 66 member Tea Party caucus... I'll bet you can't name 5 of them without looking them up on the internet.

Cantor, Pence, Bachman, King, Walsh, DeMint, the entire South Carolina house representatives...I could go on.

Oops, I forgot my own congressman Todd Young!

What is interesting is that M. Bachmann voted no and Keith Ellison voted no. He is co-chair of the progressive caucus. Both of them are from MN. 5th and 6th congressional district.

Some times the vote of principle makes ofr strange bedfellows!!

Cantor isn't a member of the Tea Party Caucus.

Brian, Cantor joined the tea party caucus in my mind when he scuttled Boehner's deal with Obama. He was out to screw Boehner and take over the speakership; but, he sided with the tea party.

SueB1: You have been talking out of ur azz. Cantor is not in the Tea Party, he was there before they arrived. The Tea Party is doing exactly what they were voted in to do. Democrats didn't vote for them so in essence no explanation is owed....

Da Noid,

I won't complain about Obama negotiating a deal simply to save his job, but I will say this...

the guy folds faster than a cheap lawn chair!!

Now that's change you can believe in!!

Pelosi is now completely irrelevant as shown thorugh her non-commital on the compromise deal! That also goes for all the 100+ Democrats who waited and waited to see howo the vote was going last night so they could vote No at the last minute! Stand up and take a vote on principle for a change Democrats and don't hide behind the people who are standing up for what they believe in!

As for Obama, I heard a perfect depiction of Obama in regard to this debt debate and the final deal... He is like the bad deadbeat dad who shows up at his kids' graduation spouting off how their success was all his doing!

Bottomline is that we will not get any reall clearly orchestratetd move to our debt reductiono until these Democrats are out of office and the Republicans (having learned their fiscal lessons) can begin to move our country forward after the next election and get this economy moving again. It is gonig to take a majro review of how we execute our governmetn and our prioroteis, our tax structure, and what we really need to be supporting withini our fiscal constraints! We need to do t his for our kids and grandkids so they can live in an America which lives within its means. I hated Kennedy, but I did like his statement that "It is not what your country can do for you, but you can do for your country!" Maybe we need to start living that concept again!

Brain B. You know what's really funny? Out of the 66 member Tea Party caucus... I'll bet you can't name 5 of them without looking them up on the internet.

You know whats funny Brain B. the Tea Party members are not looking for name recognition or fame and they also know their vote still counts the same as harry reid's or mitch mcConnell's vote.

Apologies Brian B. we are on the same page saying the same things.

What would President Bush call them? A "Coalition Of The Unwilling"?

Yes, with a stalemate looming in Washington and in need of a deal, Speaker Boehner moved to appease his radical right instead of negotiating towards the ideological center of the political spectrum. Well done, Mr. Speaker.

In a bipartisan 269-161 vote,

Now it's Harry Reid's moment. The first time in years that he has to get a majority of his chamber in line for one very important vote. There are many of his Democrats that spoke on the Senate floor today that stated they are very much against this bill, the one that passed by a strong margin in John Boehner's House. There are also many Republican Senators that are also against the bill. The vote will be close, so close VP Joe Biden could be the deciding vote, lets hope he gets it right.

Yes, Harry Reid's moment, indeed. I saw a little of his press conference today. He started with the reason we have all this debt --- President Bush, of course. Then he was careful to remind the press that it was he who thought of the joint commission. I imagine this was important so he wouldn't appear as irrelevant since his bill had so much opposition in his own party, no one ever saw it.

Then, he hedged. Being a career politician, his experience was that he was never able to grasp how his own Senators would vote, he said. (in so many words).

Trico, 95 democrats voted to pass it--hardly the party of "no". Without those 95, the deal would have failed.

What about the 95 democrats who did say NO.

Yes, kirby...the Teapublicans campaigned on the premise that Washington doesn't work. Once elected, they themselves proved it.

Kirby, this bill has nothing to do with spending. Sure they'll do the cuts -- you really think congress will stop spending on the other end? The tea party subverted democracy--nothing they should be proud of.

Kirby in Idaho,

Living in a state, Idaho, that relies on the government teat to make ends meet I'm surprised you want them to quit spending. I guess you mean spending on all states except Idaho. This is the problem with the Tea Party. They grab a salary, make sure money is spent on their states and districts, and most of them are from areas that rely on that teat just like Idaho, but want everyone else to be responsible with their money. A bunch of hipocrites!

Ana-

I was born and raised in Los Angeles, but I love your generalizations.

I thought what Ana said was valid, Kirby. You do live in Idaho, don't you?

No generalization there, at all. Where you were born is irrelevant to the point being made.

Are you in agreement that Idaho should be among the first to give up its federal aid?

Or not?

Ana - How can you sit there and say the things you do without knowing what the Tea Party house members do. I'll bet you can't name 5 of them without having to look them up on the internet. They are in the background, not strutting around making a name for themselves. They are standing on principle, kept their promise to their constituants back home and did the job their districts elected them to do. The ONLY thing you can be is jealous. Jealous that 66 members of the house actually did what they set out to do by their election promises. Has your congressman kept his promises? I'll bet not. Has your president kept his promises? I know not!

This country has become immune to people of principle. They mock them, make fun of them, criticize them, hurl rocks at them... but they do it at their own peril. The pendulum is swinging in the other direction.

Brian-Did you join before or after 2/7/10? It would explain a lot. Whether you were suckered in by Sarah P or the GOP/KKK duo that spent 1.5 yrs away from office after 1/21/09, establishing that group that will be a Third Party by the RNC.

Actually Ana and Anna, Idaho has refused a goodly amount of federal aid because of all the federal strings attached to it.

As far as I am concerned if the feds would would stop unfunded mandates, a lot of states woiuldn't need funding.

The ONLY thing you can be is jealous.

I beg to differ. Horrified also comes to mind.

if the feds would would stop unfunded mandates, a lot of states woiuldn't need funding.

Which mandates in particular offend you, Kirby?

How about cost of incarceration for convicted illegal aliens?

How about some of the Medicaid provisions?

In a state with lots of forests, one of which I just spent time in, how about letting the states take control of the logging and other forestry aspects instead of some guy in DC making rules about things they know nothing about.

Brianb:

... but they do it at their own peril.

By the way ... is this a threat? Of what?

I am going out to play in the sprinklers now and pretend I am 6.4 years old instead of 64. Pleasure disagreeing with you today, as always

In a state with lots of forests, one of which I just spent time in, how about letting the states take control of the logging and other forestry aspects instead of some guy in DC making rules about things they know nothing about.

We have forests, too. Check a map. Some of them are national forests; thus, federal jurisdiction.

In any case, I prefer to leave those decisions to those who actually know something about stuff like the effects of clearcutting in old growth forests on biodiversity.

You know, the long-term view, not necessarily the view of short-term profit. That's what loggers know about.

Forestry, on the other hand, is what states and the federal government know about.

I have a little experience with that, myself.

You?

Before I jump into the sprinklers, yes I do know something about that.

And you are right about clear cutting, but what about no logging at all which then leaves the forests at peril of huge fires? Not a lot of biodiversity left when 400,000 acres burn .

That is why states should have control. Doing what is best for individual forests, or rivers, or wild life such as wolves. Not a federal bureaucrat in DC

I love the assumptions. Odog thinks I'm a TP member so he tries to mock me... Odog - think what you want... use your childish taunts all you like. It only goes to prove that you know nothing about the TP except for what your masters tell you... Must be really great to be hogtied into a political ideology that spoon feeds your brain with nonsense.

Anna - A threat? No. Maybe some common sense. You may want to ignore the Tea Party's relevance, but let me assure you, the movement is growing. Independents, which comprise about 1/3 of the population are looking favorably at the Tea Party. It's really no longer just the republicans and the democrats. This country is in dire need of some real significant political changes... changes that make sense and are good for the country. Unfortunately for progressives, the changes aren't favoring big government, redistribution of wealth, a call to the new world order and social programs designed to homogenize this country. The belief in capitalism isn't dead.

Kirby, but when it comes to natural resources the federal government has an important management role of its forests, and the use of the rivers and lakes. It is a partnership with the states, industry and other countries.

Here in Mn if we only had the state control the natural resources, we could hold the Mississippi hostage to every state down river. We could make a deal with Canada for water in Lake Superior and cut out Wisconsin and Michigan....the Department of Interior is vital for our preserving and managing our wonderful natural resources. too bad they will be a department that will get spending cuts early on in this debt deal.

Let's all talk about this topic again in Jan 2012 and see what this bill has wrought for our states?

Except for the part about cutting Wisconsin and Michigan out of Lake Superior (look at a map), and being able to control the Mississippi (again, look at a map), I completely agree with your reasoning).

Rivers in Wisconsin and MIchigan flow INTO Lake Superior. Michigan probably has more Lake Superior shoreline than Canada. The St. Croix merges with the Mississippi just below Hudson. The Wisconsin begins at the Wisconsin/Michigan border and ends at the Mississippi. In reality, Minnesota doesn't control that much of the Mississippi, and it would still flow, notwithstanding, although its character would be different, which would affect Minnesota as much as it does us.

Which again, is why you need us, as much as we need you.

Anna, You are right. My post was a "lame" exaggeration with some faulty geography to counter the states right, "get the federal government out of my state" argument.

Love the St. Croix river. Still need to get a new bridge at Stillwater, up stream from Hudson WI.

I live overlooking the confluence of the Minnesota and Miss rivers. Have you ever been to Lake Itasca? Little stream trickles out of the marsh. Every visitor has their picture taken with their feet straddling the beginning of the Mississippi.

we sure do need each other.

Democrats saved the economy when they took over from President Bush during the financial crisis of 2009. Democrats saved the American automotive industry, they saved the jobs of teachers, firefighter, cops and other public workers with stimulus money to the states. Democrats reduced the federal deficit by $130 billion over ten years by passing the Healthcare Reform Act, and got 95% of Americans covered by health insurance, over the objections of Republicans.

And what have the Republicans done for two and a half years? Thrown stones at the President, unsettled the stock market, overseas investors, and demagogued till the cows have come home. We got rid of Bush, but his evil lives on. Teapublicans won't be happy till we are a third world nation.

Northstar says

but when it comes to natural resources the federal government has an important management role of its forests, and the use of the rivers and lakes. It is a partnership with the states, industry and other countries.

Let's all talk about this topic again in Jan 2012 and see what this bill has wrought for our states?

The United States Department of Interior

Employees

71,436 (2004)

Annual budget
$20 billion (2010)

nearly 1,500 employees per state and .4 billion budget per state anually. For my tax dollars I think the Department of Interior is over staffed and over budget. Let's take a look and see, what think there Northstar.

Representative Gifford recovered from her gunshot wound through no assistance from Republicans or Republican policies. She is a decent and idealistic public servant. Tea Party Representatives, Republican politicians, former Republican governors, and right wing commentators, are not. They have no share in the success of Giffords recovery and should look upon her and feel the shame of their rhetoric.

they were too busy playing their partisan games to care about what happens to the American people.

Sanders is a liberal. You know that don't you? I love Bernie Sanders.

Where in the world did you get the ideal that liberals don't want to end stupid spending?

If you blame liberals and then vote republican you will be voting to get rid of your social security. Every bill that came out of the republican house included triggers to reduce social security and one (Ryan Bill) ended it.

Be very careful as the republicans will be asking you to vote against yourself. The people of Wisconsin and Ohio found out the hard way about republican deception. Wisconsin is recalling 6 newly elected republicans for a reason.

"Wisconsin is recalling 6 newly elected republicans for a reason."

Yes, the reason being greedy thuggish radical public employee unions rebelled against a mild effort to limit their theft of the public treasury.

Unions are not the bad guys here. Fighting for what you worked your whole life for is not being bad. If I remember right the union cuts came right after after new state tax cuts. The unfairness of it all set the people afire.

I think the rich have robbed the treasury of 2.7 Trillion in tax cuts. Think the unions got that much?

The rich have got you so convinced that the socialist, liberal, Marxist, libtard boogieman is after your children's future that you aren't noticing them stealing your children's future behind your back right now.

Republican platform:

1. Never raise taxes on the rich again.

2. Never consider raising taxes on the rich again.

3. Never talk about raising taxes on the rich again.

4. Don't raise taxes on the job creators.

5.......110 all variations on the same platform

111. Maybe we should look into something that could help create jobs.

You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think