Please stop with the innuendo...this bending over stuff is getting me all excited. Care for a date?

Who knows where the votes lay, certainly not Reid. What a story.

Reid's draft may fail in his own Senate, nobody knows, it's a crap shoot for Reid. We might as well black marker the word "leader" in our dictionaries.

Pelosi, at least, in the House cannot support the Reid deal if it makes it to the House, after all the remarks she has made, without looking extremely bad to her base. This latest Reid compromise plan could lose Social Security by default clause. And the default is on a clock!

Very cool if you're a freshman Republican, very bad if you're the House minority.

The problem with the left-wing nut sackers (the equivalent of right wing tea baggers) is that they can't define or identify the middle class and the disadvantaged. They don't know any of them. They never associate with any of them. They don't live next to any of them. They don't go to parties with any of them. They just talk about and refer to them, while they expect the federal government to take care of them with other people's money. You see, the nut sackers never pay any taxes or else they are on the government dole. While there are some exceptions to this rule, these are Obama's supporters, and they have no experience with what the far-left defines as the middle class and the disadvantaged. By the way, did you know that 70% of atheists and agnostics voted for Obama in 2008? Also, feisty, it really doesn't matter anymore, no, it absolutely doesn't.

Mikeljhn,

Could you give me the source for your claim that 70% of atheists and agnostics voted for Obama? also the percentage for Christian, Jew, Muslim?

thank you very much.

I voted in 2008 and no one asked me about my religion.

Northstare; See the following link or Google "who voted for Obama"

http://kilosparksitup.blogspot.com/2009/01/who-voted-for-obama.html

the right is getting everything they wanted and still can't say yes. They should have agreed weeks ago. The President should force a clean debt limit or force repeal of the Bush tax cuts as the trigger.

You mean repeal the obama tax cuts don't you? Bushes tax cuts expired jan 1 2011.

What written plan have obama and company submitted for them to hang their hat on? Easy to spin on what rhetorical comments mean, not so easy when the proposals are written down and defined.

BTW - Obama could easily have started this discussion and developed an action plan in january with his debt commision findings as a starting point. Interesting that he found it easier to hit the campaign and fund raising trail instead.

I know the conservative like to lie to themselves and pretend they are Obama's tax cuts, but when the republicans held unemployment benefits hostage to keep the tax cuts.

They remained republican tax cuts. The same republicans that voted for bush's tax cuts in the first place. The same republicans that today act like they had nothing to do with our debt.

That's who I trust someone who drives us in the ditch, denies they were driving and now wants our trust to take the wheel again.

american-205...., give it up pal, obama extended the Bush tax cuts.... but ultimately it's what he couldn't do that has hurt the country and his chances for reelection!

From: Wall Street Journal July 30. 2011:

Mr. Obama seemed brilliant at politics when he first emerged in 2004. He understood the nation's longing for unity. We're not divided into red states and blue, he said, we're Big Purple, we can solve our problems together. Four years later he read the lay of the land perfectly—really, perfectly. The nation and the Democratic Party were tired of the Clinton machine. He came from nowhere and dismantled it. It was breathtaking. He went into the 2008 general election with a miraculously unified party and took down another machine, bundling up all the accrued resentment of eight years with one message: "You know the two losing wars and the economic collapse we've been dealing with? I won't do that. I'm not Bush."

The fact is, he's good at dismantling. He's good at critiquing. He's good at not being the last guy, the one you didn't like. But he's not good at building, creating, calling into being. He was good at summoning hope, but he's not good at directing it and turning it into something concrete that answers a broad public desire.

And so his failures in the debt ceiling fight. He wasn't serious, he was only shrewd—and shrewdness wasn't enough. He demagogued the issue—no Social Security checks—until he was called out, and then went on the hustings spouting inanities. He left conservatives scratching their heads: They could have made a better, more moving case for the liberal ideal as translated into the modern moment, than he did. He never offered a plan. In a crisis he was merely sly. And no one likes sly, no one respects it.

So he is losing a battle in which he had superior forces—the presidency, the U.S. Senate. In the process he revealed that his foes have given him too much mystique. He is not a devil, an alien, a socialist. He is a loser. And this is America, where nobody loves a loser.

In the parlance of Washington, the Democrats are going to get the upper hand in the final round of the debt debate. Republicans will succeed in making a vast cut in federal spending, unimaginable before the 2010 election and will block any tax increases. Democrats will get an extension of the debt limit until after the election so as to avoid dragging Obama through this process again.

But the damage this debate has inflicted on the Obama Presidency is so deep and profound that it will have played a large part in dooming his re-election chances. The injury to his popularity from the debt debate is far greater than the addition to his popularity he realized after killing bin Laden.

But the real outcome will be to have brought Obama's job approval down from its bin Laden high of 55% to a new Gallup low of 40%. That is ground he won't be able to make up. And, put through the rigors of tension and uncertainly, the economy will sink further into a double dip recession. A recession brought on, in large part, by Obama's crying wolf over the debt limit and creating an environment of financial and economic terror around its passage.

Republicans proved they can govern by passing their one-house debt limit increase. Their fiscal conservative credentials are intact. And Obama looks, once more, like a weak and easily cowed incompetent to his backers and a big spending and borrowing liberal to the rest of us.

Game to Obama, he got his debt increase, but the Republicans won set and match

One more crisis- one more instance of Obama completely out of his depth.

I see from reading these threads that the new DNC talking point is that Obama will get reelected because there is no one in the GOP who can beat him.

Good luck with that. Folks see the utter destruction of this country by this ideologue who needs to worry about reelection- no one is willing to deal with the aftermath of him in office with no constraints.

Not even democrats.

Americans first - doesn't really matter how they came about or what they are called, obama still signed off on the cuts, they are still scheduled to expire in 2013 and the revenues that the left wants will come to pass in 2013. The balanced approach is still there, regardless of what obama says.

Republicans showed us that they can govern by holding our country hostage to a depression.

I guess I am not impressed with republican governing that learned negotiating from terrorist.

mark - interesting read and analysis, I am sure many on the left don't get it though.

Many economists and analysts interviewed on bloombergTV this past week made the same observation for obama winning the current debt debate. A tactical victory perhaps but not likely a strategic one for the long haul.

Since when did raising the debt ceiling become a place for victory?

Isn't the victory creating more jobs and making our country healthy?

The republicans have created a crisis where there never has been one in the history of the United States. Any old manufactured crisis is better than dealing with the real job of governing.

Those lazy unemployed just need to get a job seems to be the total republican plan for creating jobs.

This morning in order to preserve the television, I needed to turn off "Meet the Press." The question was asked "Will the service men and women be paid this month?" The answer was not there - just a spin dance. So our military men and women not only need to worry about keeping themselves alive and their buddies alive, now they need to worry about their families having a roof over their heads. I think we need to reinstate the draft then America (non-military) would care about these guys.

If the Tea Party gets its way, military families and other families in America are going to be worried about where their paycheck is coming from for a long time to come.

Where do you think all those cuts are going to come from?

this has never been about the defic...its a test of obama....he'll win he screwed the gop plan right off the bat when he gave them 83% cuts and 17% revenue increases...4.5 trillion.... politics is about perception he came out of left field on this one and the gop hasn't recovered....you think the gop planned on obama going big big big and bending over backwards to call the boehner well we'll need something big comment when talking about the debt ceiling....boehner got it and choked on it.....backstroked away...into the we can't close loopholes for the rich....wow that's a winner and that what obama got the gop defending as to why they couldn't support the obama big bargain...defending the rich in this climate were 88% of the people say raise their taxes and close their loopholes...obama got cantor and boehner to walk out on neg...why because they want to raise taxes on the rich classwarfare.....cantor and boehner both signed on to that no taxing the rich....obama's played them like fools because he knew what we know now....that it aint defi reduction ....it's trying to beat him....what's the old saying when your oppenent is anger irratate them....obama but them in the corner of being willing to default the country.... this has always been about politics and obama's showed he knows how to play.....

Pat, the few of you who contacted members of congress exhorting them to follow Obama's dubious leadership were vastly overwhelmed by those who contacted members of congress to exhort them to abandon the idiot. Have you been paying attention to Obama's approval ratings? I assure you, members of Co greases have- members, I might add, of BOTH parties.

You guys really did the republican party a favor by driving the Clinton faction out of the democratic party. So far, you've lost the House and a few seats in the Senate- next year, it will be a whole new ballgame.

I'd thank you for electing the worst president ever to occupy the Oval Office, but it is MY country he is destroying. If you want to help your country and your party, start sending Obama emails urging him to resign. You can tell him it is obvious that nobody deserves him in office-it's the truth, and he can rely on inference to make himself feel better. We, of course, know what it really means.

Obama shelved in 2012.

marc, great post. For all the hate directed towards President Obama, he has shown himself to be a mature and thoughtful President, who despite the Tea Party and members of the Republican Party in the Senate, has managed to accomplish a great deal. No question.

And I did learn from the health care reform debates, that you have to give, otherwise you end up with nothing. Nancy Pelosi paid the price for being one of the most effective Speakers this Nation has ever had.

In many ways, the same thing is happening with President Obama. All the hell directed at him and he just keeps working. I remember when Nixon was under assault night and day. He looked horrible, sweating, angry, etc ... he even had an enemies list. Our President is the exact opposite and it's refreshing.

He is a remarkable man and politician. I just don't want all these cuts. I really don't. And as long as he's President we should all ask him - please - bring some progressives to the table. Maybe he won't get anything with today's House. Perhaps that's why he had to let go of revenues, just like what happened with the public option.

He told us to make him do it. Which doesn't mean calling him names or refusing to support him. To me it just means we have to push him.

Anyway, thanks for your post.

Marc Huff, You and Lawrence O'Donnell of Last word understand the three deminsion chess plays of politics.

And all this live commentary on tv right now...

"Nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to" Lawrence O'Donnell

thanks for your post.

By the list above of the progressive caucus house members, it seems more likely that the progressive have mor than enough to put a compromise vote in question as well.

American, No it is the Teapublicans who have to run on Obama's offer of 4T deal that they would not pursue.

Progressives will run on protecting SS from the Ryan budget solution, which every Republican voted for.

how can anyone talk about a dem someone that obviously voted for bush twice....and never said boo about his 8 years 6 of which he had rubber stamp repb house and senate... wasteful spending not infrasture not education things that actually help the country...g.o.p. people don't bother talking about obama's spending to fill in bushs hole....you got no creditality on the subject.... you're spending habit aren't you're party strong suit....since it was your spending that got us into this mess....you guys look like fools most of the people on this site still remember w...

American,

Have you been under a rock for the last 10 years. You want to cut the liberal spending habits.

Bush tax cuts unfunded (from the very first month of his tax cuts U.S. had to borrow money that added to the debt.)

Then not 1 but two wars unfunded. To top it off to hide republican debt, bush carried the wars off the books. (think Enron)

When Obama feeling that it was dishonest to carry the wars off the debt. There was a sudden jump in debt when all of bush's years of war debt got added to the debt. Just like magic, it suddenly become liberal spending.

I know faux has been running a graph showing how much of the debt was added on President Obama's watch, without telling the whole truth.

The real question, do you come on here and lie on purpose or have you heard so much propaganda you really don't know what is going on?

Americans first - got the dates and links to go with what you say? Never said that the tax cuts were the right thing to do in lght of afganistan and iraq or that ignoring our debt was the right thing either.

You sound like the typically average person, find someone to blame rather than look for a solution. Right now the economy is owned by obama, the republican held house, the previously democrat controlled house and the democrat controlled senate.

Don't really know about fox news or whatever it is you choose to watch for I find op-ed pieces to be suspect as are many so called talk shows left or right.

Prefer charlie rose interviews with the occasional mclaughlin group discussion panels. When I want to get relatively unbiased views on global economic and business trends I watch bloombergTV or read deeper on news events at bloomberg.com.

Huff and first - try to think of solutions rather than to dwell on who to blame. We didn't get to this point in time without both sides screwing the pooch, but obviously you choose to ignore that little fact. But thanks for the strawman arguments, I am sure that others have enjoyed them as well.

American, I agree with you about the Charlie Rose show. It is one of the best.

I don't agree that the voters will only blame Obama. Obama does look like a compromiser which the vast majority of voters want . Boehner, McConnell and other long time Relublicans voted for all that spending during the Bush years and even voted to raise the debt ceiling with a one paragrah procedural vote. They have to run on their whole record.

This time, the republicans got us where we are today.

What's more they are compounding the issue with their loyalty to the rich. Everything the republicans have done is to protect the rich with corporate loopholes and with taxes for the rich smaller than they have ever been since we started taxing.

In the beginning the rich were taxed 80-90%. I don't remember everyone yelling socialist. The rich take more out of country and get more out of our country and deserve to pay more taxes.

The solution is to raise taxes. It worked when Clinton was president the last time republicans were fiscal conservatives. The only difference is last time we were allowed to raise taxes, but this time we are not allowed because it worked last time.

Show me dates and links that show that republicans aren't the cause of our debt.

If you have a child who just broke your favorite vase and you saw him do it and you say to him that you hold him responsible and he stands and lies to you saying he didn't do it. Kinda kills trust.

I trust someone a lot more who admits he made a mistake and will try to do better that someone who outright lies to me. If I was a republican, I would try to make everybody believe the con that it is nobodies fault too.

You seem to forget that by not addressing medicare and SS now, all of your other programs will be sucked dry by medicare and SS. Obama thinks that controlling health care provider costs will be enough, or so he implies. Wage and price controls in the 70's didn't work well, why would they work today?

Keep on asking the wealthy for "just a little more" and soon it will be asking those making less than $30k to "give just a little more"?

Keep on asking the wealthy for "just a little more"

the base line for the wealthy is - (minus)$0.00!

individual - perhaps the following link based on IRS reported data will better define who pays income taxes that goes towards our revenues...

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

For a more thought provoking view, you can try this op-ed piece explanation...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/get-rich-pay-lower-taxes-boost-u-s-revenue-commentary-by-amity-shlaes.html

Bob, But the Teapublican passed up the "Grand Bargain" of 4T in cuts becuase they were unwilling to raise revenue by closing tax loop holes for oil companies and other.

so now you are saying a 1-2T in cuts is better????

I'm so Sad,

The manufactured crisis over this debt ceiling has indeed taken time way from looking at putting people back to work, and slowly grownign this fragile econmoy. I put the blame squarely on the Republican House where their only goal is to gut the programs that make government work for you, the middle class and the working poor.

Yet over 60% of Americans now say get rid of Obamacare. Why do Democrats insist on pushing something Americans say they don't want.

Doesn't matter!! There are plenty of Democratic senators running very races for re-election such as Nelson in Nebraska and Nelson in Florida in state which had huge Republican wins last fall who are trying to look like they are in favor of budget cuts. Reid knows he has been dealt a difficult hand. He sees the polls and knows how unpopular Washington spending is. Notice the two polls of this last week showing a balanced budget amendment getting 74% and 72% popularity. I think Democrats want this losing issue out of their way going into an election year.

They don't have to do anything to look incompetent. They look incompetent each day they show up at the office. They don't have to open their mouths. They don't have to do anything. They just sit there and look incompetent, because they are incompetent. The most incompetent of all is Barack Hussein Obama. Even his pictures look incompetent. When he opens his mouth to read his teleprompter, he looks and sounds incompetent. He looks and sounds incompetent because he is incompetent, incompetent to his inner core.