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Subscribe to RSSA Republican source close to the negotiations tells NBC News that both sides are "very close" to agreement on a two-step debt-ceiling deal.
It is essentially the original Boehner plan -- without the balanced-budget amendment and with modified triggers, what amounts to an escape hatch if a joint committee can't get the cuts needed. The plan would get enough in cuts, roughly $1 trillion, to last about six or seven months.
At the same time, a joint congressional committee would be established that would be tasked with getting enough in cuts to raise the debt ceiling again and get past the 2012 election - in the range of $1.4 trillion to $1.8 trillion.
The source said the White House's concern was that if a joint committee couldn't find something, the White House wanted a way to access the second tranche. The original Boehner plan did not include a way without the joint committee finding something.
Here are the options if a committee can't find something:
1. A balanced-budget amendment sent to states, which is "not going to happen," the source said. (NBC's Mike Viqueira reports there would be a separate vote on a balanced-budget amendment);
2. Across the board cuts that include Medicare and Defense, but NOT Social Security. The goal is that just the threat of this should provide "total motivation" for a committee to find a solution.
The whole thing then triggers the McConnell disapproval process, in which a two-thirds majority would be needed to disapprove of the president's spending proposals.
The original Boehner plan didn't have the votes to pass the House in the first try this past week. But this should pass, because it should get the support of many Democrats. Democrats aggressively whipped against the original Boehner proposal.
A House GOP Leadership aide says, "Discussions are moving in the right direction, but serious issues remain. And no agreement will be final until Members have a chance to weigh in."
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Dissapointing Mr. President. This is not what I signed up for. If the final deal is a GOP giveaway, I'll vote for my Democratic congressional representatives, and vote for no one for President. This is what it comes down to. I'd rather see 4 years of political gridlock, and force the Democratic party to do better in 2016.
Much of the current debate is about "Triggers" to ensure that reductions in fact takes place and/or reforming the tax code...these would occur if the Bi-Partisan "Committee" recommendations were not enacted next year. Let's put some real teeth into this plan by also enacting the following additional triggers: Congressional salaries would automatically be reduced one month's salary each time take fail to reach agreement on legislation proposed, but rejected on partisan lines. This would have to occur simultaneously, in both houses and across the aisles in both houses. This would take away the "incentive" for either side to put forth meaningless proposals they know won't be agreed to for the purpose of penalizing the other side. Add one more trigger that the President's salary would be reduced by one month if he vetoes legislation that had strong Bi-Partisan support. Of course these "triggers" will not be adopted, but given the current state of affairs, I feel better for having said it!
If the information I got from Wilipedia is correct 2/3 of the states can force a constitutional convention to vote a balanced budget amendment. If you believe in a balanced budget amendment put pressure on your representatives to petition the government for just such and amendment.
The problem with a Constitutional Convention, Rick, is that it is not limited. You throw that door open, the entire document can be changed.
What you are suggesting is akin to using a bazooka to swat a fly.
Why are the Dems so dead set against a balanced budget? Maybe because it hinders their tax and spend like drunken sailors agenda? Only a Dem thinks you go to the store and purchase $200 worth of groceries even though you have ony $50 to your name. Put it on credit so someone will pay for it????
"Why are the Dems so dead set against a balanced budget?"
Because it hamstrings government. Let's say we pass and ratify a Balanced Budget Amendment.
And then lets say 3 months after that a Category 5 hurricane wipes out the Florida coast. (And don't say it's unlikely to happen - how many natural disasters have we had this year?)
In order to do disaster relief, you've now got to cut the budget elsewhere because you've made it impossible to spend into the red to handle a natural disaster. This is the thing that I hated when Majority Leader Cantor said he would support $1 billion in tornado relief for Missouri IF President Obama and the Democratic caucuses agreed to cut $1 billion. If not, well those homeless people in Joplin were just outta luck.
Oh, and the whole "run government like the family checkbook" is shopworn and tiring. Last I checked, a family couldn't print its own money.
Tank Carson - reference #1.4
Actually the Stimulus was more like 28% tax breaks
see: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/feb/10/jonstewart/stewart-claims-stimulus-bill-one-third-tax-cuts/
The MORONS that elected these new barbarians are getting a big laugh out of this, I'm sure.
The rest of America and MYSELF are suffering from DRY HEAVES because of throwing up so
much watching these MORONS demands.
Wait till you get Obama's bill for all this wild spending and massive debt.....you will puck till you die but sadly your kids will still be stuck with the bill. How do you feel about that? Your gift to your kids is massive debt at birth...good job pin head.
YOU must be one of those people I referred to in my post.
Do you wear your three pointed hat while you work the keyboard ??
A reasonable guess is that the "balanced budget amendment" wouldn't work in practice. The public doesn't know much about the way the national economy works, except to the extent that it affects their pocketbook or they're responding to meaningless buzz words and catch phrases picked up from partisan media.
The term "balanced budget" is very appealing to people who do not think. "My FAMILY can't spend more than it takes in, so why should the country be able to?"
All the states (except Vermont) have to balance their budgets. It doesn't work well. For one thing, a horde of lobbyists are hard at work seeing that loopholes for special interests are built into the law. For another, the states have acted creatively and found dozens of ways of getting around the requirement for a balanced budget. State lotteries, eg., bring in revenue that helps balance the budget but, as anyone with experience knows, they're really disguised regressive taxes. The poor buy hope, the wealthy buy bonds.
The flaw in the logic for a balanced budget amendment lies in a logical fallacy called argument by analogy. The national economy is like a family budget. I can balance a household budget therefore the nation can balance its budget.
Time is like a river -- always changing, always flowing in one direction, etc. You can get in a boat and paddle upstream in a river. Therefore you can do the same with time and travel into the future. It's the same fallacy with the balanced budget. One thing can be LIKE another, only with significant differences.
If we want to make the analogy more accurate, we need to take a closer look at that hypothetical "family" with the budget problems. We'd have to throw in a good-for-nothing teen aged loafer living in the attic. We'd have to include the filthy rich uncle sponging off us without contributing a dime to the rest of the family. There is Dad who is crippled by arthritis. And there is the retarded kid who needs to be taken care of. Of course we could throw out the loafer, and we could drown the kid, but we can't get rid of the rich uncle because he owns the house.
In practical terms, if we had a balanced budget amendment it would act as a straight jacket on the government. We'd lose our flexibility. We couldn't respond to domestic or foreign emergencies. We couldn't spend more than allowed even if more spending was desperately needed.
A BBA would have some benefits, if done properly. It would have prevented the previous administration from fighting two wars without paying for them, for instance.
Definition of Moron
1. A stupid person; a dolt.
2. Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
A wise man once said, "Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one and everybody elses' stinks."
iheardthisbefore - based on your post the best thing I can say about you is that you are offensive.
What is your point?
All the Republicans wanted was to protect the tax cuts for their billionaire friends and which were supposed to create jobs (the lie of the milenium). The rest of us can go and die anytime, they don't care.
If they can get that, then everything else is O.K., regardless of the needs of the people and the country. It has been really obscene the way they have fought tooth and nail to protect the 2% of the upper crust that neither creates jobs nor pay their share of taxes, like the rest of us.
Once again they have succeeded in giving the finger to the middle class, and the immorality of it all will be remembered, I hope, by the voters in the next election. The moral turpitude of the Republican Party has reached its lowest level during the present administration and, (dare I say it?), could it be because our President is....black?
Kidding right? YOu even got in the cowardly and very liberal "President is Black" remark? In any color Obama is incompetent. YOu as a classic pin head cannot argue for his mindless and failed programs so you go racial? Do you even know a Republican? Your description of Republicans is not only unfair and baseless but shows you to be a person of weak mind. Take off those Obama goggles SCOOTER and glimpse the real world. Obama is a failure in any color.
The new Tea Party representatives seem to be the ones Rasputin has in mind. If he's thinking of all the GOP -- including seasoned players like Boehner and McConnell -- he's probably wrong in skinning them. He may very well be wrong even if he's thinking only of the zealous new patriots. They are probably motivated by a sense of honor and responsibility, and a feeling that everyone should be responsible for his own acts and not look to the government for help.
I doubt that many of them know much about how government works. I doubt that many of them believe they're working for millionaires and corporations -- even though that's exactly the effect of their actions.
The powerful and wealthy ideologists, though, may have found they're riding a tiger that they can't rein in. The intransigents are about to crash the market and lower the credit rating of Treasury bonds. That's not good for the rich, powerful individuals or corporations. Even Grover Norquist is appalled.
Mr. Obama has made the best of a terrible situation. These spending cuts will clearly hurt the economy and kill jobs in the short term, thus decreasing his chances of getting re-elected. Our only hope is that he squeaks by the 2012 elections, and that we vote the Dead End Kids out of office. The freshman Republicans' disrespect for Senator McCain is particularly invidious; not one of them is worthy of carrying his briefcase.
Kill jobs more than Obama and his NLRB attack on Boeing? Kill jobs more than the WORLD's highest corporate tax rate of 39.2%. KIll more jobs than Obama's stupid and expenise healthcare bill? Do you know the CBO NOW says Obamacare will not save us money but will actually cost over a Trillion dollars? Pelosi was right when she mubbled through her senile haze, "Pass it to knwo that is in it". Regarding McCain he needs to shut the hell up and take a nap. As a Republican I am proud he is not running again...he let us down enough last time. Obama is a one termer!
So it seems that no matter which side of the debate you believe or support, the most important thing is to say how unreasonable people who don't agree with you are...     Â
It's not ok to blame someone else, the "poor" don't exactly sacrifice anything, if you don't have a job or contribute in any financial way, you still get money back from your tax return.Â
Entitlement reform as all economic reform should be means tested for the top earners, and reality tested for those who scam and steal from the system.
Instead of handing out billions in food stamps, it's time to go back to the soup lines. Everyone getting money from the govt not to work, it's time to go to work. Guess we got our soup line workers etc.
We need a responsible America, not an entitlement America. It was A democrat Kennedy that said "Ask not.." That goes for corporate America as well. No zeroing out the tax man for corporate America, it's time to sales. Institution of a VAT for the expressed purpose of repaying the deficit with a balanced budget amendment.
The only thing that keeps us from success is ourselves. Can we stop crying about what the govt. should do for awhile and just do what needs to be done for the benefit of us all? It's horrible that at the end of the day we can't do anything because we can't do everything..
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I still don't understand the fits the Democrats are throwing over a Balanced Budget Amendment. Go ahead and pass a proposal to send to the states. If three quarters of the states ratify the amendment, it would show the overwhelming will of the American people and the Democrats should have already been on board. If the states do not ratify the amendment, the question of a Balanced Budget Amendment becomes a dead letter - at least for decades and probably forever.
It's all about making sure the taxes dont go up on the Rich part of which happen to be the Politicians that were elected to represent the people...
If you want lower taxes for the rich and cut programs for the working poor, poor, and middle class then vote for your GOpTNutBagger candidate....
Right - - my son is among the working poor...27 yrs earning $60K / yr (files single, no dep, no mortg) ...he gets a tax refund every yr........if he had a mortgage his net taxable income would be even less
I'm still paying on his college loans along with my other 2 sons.....I understand working poor.....also understand that my family won't trust or depend on government to get anything right.
REMEMBER ZERO DOWN MORTGAGES: well intentioned DEM plan for working poor
the results was - Mortgage Crisis, Credit Crisis, Banking Crisis, Wall Street Crisis from falsely AAA Rated bonds driven by Government Enforced Mandates by the Clinton administration.
How many Americans earn $100K are mortgaged to the HILT and pay NO NET FEDERAL TAXES??? Millions
How many government workers are in the same income class, get their PENSION PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS and pay NO NET FICA. Millions
TXtunes - I think you are wasting your time. You will never get the liberals to admit that a democrat had something to do with the sub prime meltdown which caused a worldwide recession. It goes way, way back. When their programs fail it is always the fault of someone or something else.
Yes I do! When did you last get a job from a poor person? Remember Katrina and what those brilliant job creators did with the debit cards they were given for food and shelter? They purchased stereos and watches and luggage to loot stores...that is a fact you can look up. I am not interested in giving these clowns the money when they have no desire to create jobs. People with money risk that money to make more money by creating companies and hiring people. Why do you hate Bill Gates and people like him given what he has done with the money? Pin head
I am a senior citizen and my husband is also andus as I am sure millions of others live check to check. And I am cocerned on I we will get our checks or not and what are we supposed to do if we don't what are we supposed to do about our mortagaes and other expenises.We seniors work all our life and paid into the social securety so we could have something in our older years.I would like to know why the senate and congress dont take a cut to help this debt deal.
Anna -- Some of the posters here have indicated they have already gotten their checks.
Anna May Kane:
Vote Republican and save America from the debt that will destroy our way of life.
What they need is an escape hatch if the plan leads to more job losses, more debt, not reducing the debt in the years ahead, and continued anemic growth, recession. They should put target numbers for the number of jobs that tax breaks to the rich are supposed to create, as well as how much debt reduction, and how much gdp. If it doesn't create any jobs, as it usually does, and create more debt, less growth/gdp, they should be able to scrap the plan, and do away with the tax breaks to the rich, all of them. Then adopt some plan that will create jobs, reduce debt, increase gdp. It shouldn't be another blank check given to the republicans on tax breaks to the rich, they get the breaks, but they don't have any requirements for keeping the breaks. What we get is more dismal growth, no jobs, more debt, and a bunch of excuses from the republicans. If they are going to cut a bunch of programs, they should say, right up front, how many jobs that will be. My guess is in the millions, added to the millions of jobs that the republicans have already destroyed. You don't recover an economy by destroying jobs. Later on, what will it cost us to replace all of those jobs that they destroy? Probably a few trillion.
Note to Rick;Ky - The reason your mother's military pension got deposited is that it was due before August 3d - if it were due on or after August 3rd (as are most social security benefits) and the debt ceiling weren't raised, she wouldn't have received it. So, please stop with thel ill-informed, misleading information.
Dianne - since you are prescient how about telling us how all this is going to come out.
Diane
Not true at all...you are uniformed
I wouldn't call solving $14.5 Trillion of debt like "swatting a fly"
we spend more on DEBT SERVICE than Medicare
Give Rick in KY a break. Reading and understanding stuff is not common in Kentucky. And, they are still very upset about losing the civil war.
You can stand up now Mr. President and please wipe your mouth; you have kissed enough Republican and Tea Party AZZ for one day. Please remember to use lip moisturizer and get plenty of rest because the bowing and AZZ kissing most assuredly will start again first thing in the morning.
Obama is so clueless it is just sad. Lesson here is NEVER hire a liberal community organizer to do the job of a President.
But even if we avert a default, i read how mr grover has the gop, birthers, & tea party funded trillions by the soviets signed up for all sorts of things, not only for no new taxes. Mr grover gives soviet petro dollars because the gop candidates would not raise money otherwise.
You are truly insane! Please seek professional help? Do you honestly believe that crap or did you not read what you wrote? The mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Bottom line...Norquist wins and we the people lose.
Whatever these totally corrupted idiots pass you will need a forklift to put all the totally unrelated "party pork" into it. They just want some bogus bill that will give the appearance something was done while really doing next to nothing then stuff tons of lobby and special interest crap into it buying themselves leverage in the 2012 election.
These are the same incumbents who orchestrated, covered up and then bailed out all their lobby's for the meltdown. I don't trust any of these people as far as I can throw them.
The only asses being kissed are those of the Federal Reserve bankers by both party's. The deficit whores will get theirs and the taxpayers go under the bus as usual.
I love these morons writing about Clinton and how he reduced the deficit. What is the only reason cigar boy was able to do that? ANSWER he had a Republican Congress and Senate and THE Newt CONTRACT WITH AMERICA. Thank God for the Tea Party or Obama would have gotten his blank check and the debt clock would be move forward without end. The real question is WHEN will that debt clock begin to move backwards? One thing for sure not under Obama and his socialist agenda to redistribute the wealth. Thank goodness he is a one term wonder just like Jimmy Carter. History will how Obama to be the worst President ever!
Edward-445583, Do you get paid by the word or the number of lies, either way your paycheck should be a good one this time.
luvenia:
Which one is a lie...and give facts you misinformed liberal hack.
Can anyone explain Pelosi or Frank to me? Pelosi is senile and the nursing home has not yet discovered she escaped. Barney Frank allowed his homsexual lover to run a male prostitution ring out of his D.C. apartment and that bloated freak has the nerve to criticize ANYONE? Is it true the Clinton Library is in the shape of a CIGAR? This is the guy the Dems call GENIUS? Thank God for the TEa Party and the sanity they bring to Washington.
Are members of Congress still going to get their paychecks? Their currently salary is $174,000 a year, while Speaker Boner's (I mean Boehner), is about $212,00 (not 100% sure if they get paid weekly, biweekly, or monthly, (if monthly, I can see why they don't care if any checks get cut after the 1st). The first checks that should not be issued, or directly deposited into their bank accounts, are for members of Congress.
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The only problem in the past as now is that the Democrats have given in to the Republicans starting with the great depression. It was because of the Republicans that the depression last so long and ended us up in a war. History says that we were on our way to a recovery, a fast recovery UNTIL the president listened to the Republicans and tried to balance the budget too soon. So don’t let facts get in the way of your rants.
President Clinton also bowed and because of it a “Republican bill” called NAFTA got pasted and we all know the damage that caused.