I hear there is a provision in this bill that requires the balanced budget amendment be passed and sent to the states before the next debt ceiling deadline.

Wouldn't you know they would wait for the 11th hour to drop the other shoe?

We are being outflanked at every turn, and they don't seem to care that the entire future is at stake.

If this goes South, it will be South for a long time.

Wouldn't you know they would wait for the 11th hour to drop the other shoe?

Maybe because they're morally challenged, sneaky rat b@stards?

I heard the same thing AM - I could use some Calgon right about now to 'take me away'!

PS: Can I get seconds on the chipotle potato salad & quesadillas - they're delish! ;o)

Fiesty and Anna, the Senate will have to produce something to send to the House by Midnight. With the House rules it would be voted on by late Monday night. Other pundits say that now that Boehner got this crazy bill passed, the Tea party is not needed anymore, the House can pass the final bill with Republicans and Democrats.

That is one senerio....or Anna Molly suggestion of the 14th Admendment ,or default on Tues am.

Fiesty , would you like another cocktail?

Fiesty , would you like another cocktail?

Only if you're joining me. ;o)

Can I get seconds on the chipotle potato salad & quesadillas - they're delish! ;o)

Absolutely. And thirds and as many more as you like. All completely guilt-free.

I'm practically flying now from all the wings I had. ;-)

Of course I wil join you Feisty, and Anna for more drink and food and of course wonderful, witty conversation!!!

I'm practically flying now from all the wings I had. ;-)

Good thing you have NO FEAR! ;o))

@Northstar - CHEERS my friend!

That is one senerio....or Anna Molly suggestion of the 14th Admendment ,or default on Tues am.

I'm trying to decide whether it makes sense for the President to let Tuesday morning come, see what the markets do, and then invoke the 14th as they start to crash. Or would that be a bit too long?

And before that, sometime on Monday, Democrats need to offer one more chance to pass a clean debt ceiling extension with a plan for real negotiations to make it clear where the problem truly lies.

It has to be heroic, not desperate.

Anna I'd like to see them go back and raise the debt ceiling for thirty days and in that thirty days go back to the Presidents origional plan for 3 to 1 debt to revenue. May not work but it seems the best for all concerned

There is a diary over on DK about China's reaction to what is happening in the United States and they are disgusted.

"Chinese media attacked the United States over its debt wrangling, warning that "irresponsible" lawmakers could depress the value of the dollar, fuel global inflation and plunge the world into another recession."

______________________________________________________

It's sad that the #3 most powerful man in the country (Boehner) cow tows to some of the most uneducated irresponsible people to have ever gone to Congress.

This is all on Boehner's shoulders. As so many have said, this evening was all about Boehner keeping his job. Sen. McConnell is no better than Palin nor Boehner nor Cantor nor any Republican.

Imagine all this. As the world watches. China looks more responsible than we do now. China does.

That's the Republican Party. I suspect now with China's reaction, that this is why President Obama wanted to work with the unworkable. It makes sense why he settled for no revenues. He was looking at the bigger picture and trying to avoid all this.

President Obama has to try and work with insane people. That's the problem. No sane person would put the country through this.

President Obama is not working with sane people. That's the problem.

Amen Pat - the inmates are offically running the asylum!!!

@ IR ~ That's a great idea, but I think you'd better give it 60 days. Republicans are planning to take August off. Can you believe it?

@ Pat - CNN has an article about this. China thinks we're nuts. So does everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if there are negative ramifications from this, even if we avoid default here.

What we've found out here in Wisconsin is that what looks totally insane to one side looks totally reasonable to the other side. That's how far we've polarized. We are truly the microcosm. And we've all seen how that has worked out.

The GOP/TP keep walking away from negotiations with Democrats to keep voting on their own legislation. And they keep doing this same thing expecting different results. WTF, do they really think this is how things get done in congress? Teabaggers, you must negotiate a bipartisan bill and vote on that--this is how it goes whether YOU like it or not. I think we should give them a civics test, and throw out those who can't pass it, which would probably be all freshman Republicans.

AM -- Is the "bizarro" activities from Teabaggers in congress creating more likelihood of recall of Republicans in Wisconsin? It should.

60 days it is Anna. Wouldn't want to intefer with Taning time.. Seriously I think we have to go back to the 3 to 1 plan to keep from being downgraded which would be just as bad if not worse. About your idea to involke the 14 th. With this Supreme Court I'd be very wary of that. Wouldn't want to give them an excuse to overstep they're bounds unless theres just not any other way.

what looks totally insane to most probably means it's insane and the teapublicans they aint right...

With the bill tabled now in the Senate, at least we will get to see the Senate version before too long.

I have been a staunch Barack Obama supporter/apologist. With that said, both he and the Democratic establishment have gotten their butts handed to them by Boehner and the Repubs. Right now Obama looks weak to me.

IR, agreed that a 3 to 1 plan would help the credit rating, but unfortunately when you have Peter Pans in the House who believe a default would be a good thing, is there anything they will say "yes" to? The 14th amendment would only cause conservatives to scream impeachment even louder. What we must do is find a way through this unecessary debt ceiling "crisis," and in 2012 "We the People" have got to throw out these crazies and do a better job of vetting candidates.

The Republican Party should require Teabaggers to run as Libertarians in 2012, instead of usurping the GOP. And no public funds (for now)--this is how the these nobody freshman with no Rule of Reason managed to get in the door. We're broke, right? Make this the first spending cut.

Then congress needs to change a lot of rules to prevent minority hostage taking in the future, not only filibusters, blocks and holds, but most of all holding the faith and credit of our nation hostage. The record abuse of long-practiced rules has now been witnessed, and unfortunately it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the barrel for everyone else.

IR ~ The Supreme Court is, indeed, a concern, but how likely is it that they would step in if the only possible outcomes would be either to uphold Obama's action or to trigger the very disaster he acted to prevent?

A Hobson's choice, for sure. Wouldn't wanna be 'em. And I suspect that Republicans have already made this calculus, or if they haven't, they could be in for a big surprise. Maybe Obama is already out in front on this.

The 3-1 plan is a very good idea, except I'm still worried about where all the cuts will come from. I'd rather see 1:1, but in any event only with a specific agreement on how much in each direction BEFORE they start.

I know. A snowball's chance ...

Right now Obama looks weak to me.

So what are you going to do? Sit out the next election? We HAVE all seen how well that's WORKED out!

Am I 100% happy? To quote Agent Orange - HELL NO! But I will not sit on the sidelines and b!tch!

::Cough:: ::snirk:: s'cuse me

Anna I'm just going on what I've herd from Lawyer friends about the decisions that have made them scratch their heads and the convaluted logic that it took to get them there. Heck you know I don't play Lawyer anywhere but on the net and I'm not any good at that. Don't think that 1 to 1 is achievable in our present circumstances but 3 to 1 gives us a chance to change our circumstances much like you'll are doing in Wisconson. Takes time but all you have to do is stick with it. 2 steps forward 1 step back

Even if they signed this thing tonight an article in MSNBC indicates that the U.S. is going to lose its AAA rating anyway. Damage has already been done. The planet hikes our credit card interest rate in about 1 month, or so I think. That is when they expect the next rating to occur.

I've got to go back and read that article again.

is there anything they (Republicans) will say "yes" to? (

No True Patriot. Their objective is anarchy, not answers.

Well GOP, if our government wasn't so damn inept, this would have never happened. Ya think maybe somone in forecasting couldn't have nudged a few senators and the president along the way and informed them that they might need to control some of the spending. Revenue being was it is and all.

But of course, would those senators and the president have listened? I pretty much know the answer to that rethorical question... it would be a resounding NO! Our politicians do NOT care what they spend... after all it's not their money. It's really easy to spend other people's money when there are no controls on it. Budget? What budget? Care about what's being spent? No way!

We have about 600+ people in control that do not know how to come together and decide on the financial well being in our country. Each politician is an island unto him/her self. The financial regulatory commission... nothing but a bunch of men sitting around discussing their golf scores... They don't take their job seriously... and no one can tell me they do either. The Congressional finance committee... nothing but a bunch of men thinking about their next trip home and how to hide things they don't want anyone else to see. I have grown to have ZERO confidence in any of the clowns in Washington.

Anna Molly & Feisty:

I'm practically flying now from all the wings I had. ;-)

Thought angels already had wings. :o)

Thought angels already had wings. :o)

We are mere mortal angels - think of the Victoria Secret ones... lol

Brian B: We find ourselves if full concurrence on all the bases you touched in that last post.

Through the recent years this nation seems to think it has no competitors in the world. We do. We ought to know. We used our money to rebuild them from the ashes of WWII. Now they're all growed up, and siphoning off our prosperity.

They used our own tried-and-true methods against us. No wonder they're that good. We find ourselves competing against ourselves. The Chinese have emulated the economic and trade policies of America ca. 1957.

Our politicians seem to think they can spend us into oblivion with impunity. To date it has worked.

We have to stop the wars and the profligate spending on other nations.

We are in distress ourselves now, and we are dragging the rest of the planet down with us. Dad is pulling the car over and taking off his belt,..... and what comes next ain't gonna' be pretty.

We are mere mortal angels - think of the Victoria Secret ones... lol

I often do. ;o]

I often do. ;o]

Uh HUM & *sigh*

Oh, behave. ;-)

Oh, behave. ;-)

If you're talking to me - that ain't ever going to happen! ;o)

GOP, I'm not a bad guy. There are a few things I find intolerable. Incessant party loyalty is one of them. I can't stand it when a democrat says it's all the republicans fault and I can't stand it when a republican says it's all the democrats fault. Blame is on both sides.. and the banter around here by the liberals is.. It's all the republicans fault. That simply isn't true.

Ideology and party are not one in the same all the time. I'll take up for the republicans when untruths are being told.. or generalizations are being tossed around that are meant to get someone all riled up. I'm guilty of generalizations myself. Trust me, Anna has called me on it several times... and I've gotten better about it. Even though I'm conservative, I have developed a fond respect for several that call themselves liberal. Forrest is a great guy. I like Anna cuz I can play with her.. and imagine her face getting all red.... LOL.

GOP, it's us against the establishment... geeezzzz.. I'm sounding like a hippy from the 60's right now... My GOSH.... They are out of control and we are paying the price. How do we fix it? I'm not sure... but as long as we all have freedom of speech, we can certainly exercise it.

President Obama has a plan, "Republicans shall change their votes and do as they’re told, or the United States defaults, doesn’t make interest payments, doesn’t make military service payments, doesn’t make Social Security payments".

So there it is. Obama will default until the Republicans are voted out.

I often do

Was that TMI? I'm blushing. I have no filter.

Each and every Social Security check that's late, or short, will lower the President's approval rating by one vote.

Your half right Scott.

Brianb, It is good to see you.

Yes, "us against the establishment" next you will be saying "Don't trust anyone over 30." Brian, I have been there done that.

:)

I was a teen when I heard that phrase for the first time Ms. Northstar. Remember Antidisestablishmentarianism? I am the Walrus... coo coo ca choo. hahaha. Actually I'll never forget the first time I woke up to "Here comes the sun." I immediately loved the song and went down to the local record store that day to put my order in for Abby Road. The vinyl album hadn't arrived in the stores yet.

I guess I'd be saying... don't trust anyone over 75 these days... LOL

You know I wish some of these politicians would read this blog over a period of time and could see people like Brianb and myself and others who started out going after each other pretty hard, but then slowed down and actually started to really listen and try to understand each other instead of repeating same old party talking points. I have a lot of respect for BrianB (he is very smart and honest) and I believe it is mutual (and others as well) we still don't agree on everything and probably never will, but we have found that we do agree on some things. I don't think ether one of us just moved all the way over to the others position, but we each moved a little bit toward the other. This is what happens when we allow ourselves to treat each other with honesty and fairness, this is a kind of negotiation, this is a kind of compromise, this is what should happen in Congress.

scott-579755 wrote: "Each and every Social Security check that's late, or short, will lower the President's approval rating by one vote."

Not around here it won't. But it will insure that every nickel goes to pay down debt and not buy anything new. With an elderly MIL and a disabled vet under this roof the last thing we need is a foreclosure or working income to be sent out to pay higher interest. We know who did this, and we know why. Our kids know who is responsible for the tanking of any possible recovery.

Just a reminder - BBA needs to be approved by every state. The 14th Amendment already was approved by every state. We totally support the use of the 14th Amendment.

Yes Forrest... through listening to the other person and actually thinking about what was said, there has been a mutual respect developed. We both agree that total agreement isn't necessary, but reasonable and threat free dialogue about the issues can formulate the other to at least understand why thought processes occur. I much prefer open discussion without the fear of having the other person call you some sort of name like crazy, or insane, etc.

What I think is one of the greatest problems around here is posters that drop in, lay an egg and leave. The purposeful intent is to disrupt. Many of us that actually use these boards for dialogue read those nuggets and find ourselves annoyed by them. That in turn can lead to a reaction that may not normally occur. We don't know why we feel slightly pissed off, but it's because of those remarks made that eat at us. I've also found out that by placing some posters on ignore, my enjoyment level has increased a lot while reading these boards. There are a few regulars that used to get under my skin but no more. If you noticed I no longer respond to certain posters because it's better that I don't. Some of them will never be able to pull themselves into reasonable dialogue, continually post the same things over and over again, just to gain a reaction and when they do, I can sense they feel like they gotcha. I don't need that.

So Forrest, by making some small adjustments in the way I read these boards, I can understand reasonable positioning. Some who call themselves liberal are actually more centered than they know. (smile)

By the way Forrest, that fourth dot last night was hilarious. When I saw it I busted out laughing.

Was that TMI? I'm blushing. I have no filter.

Did you have some idea this comes as a surprise? LoL ;-)

Brianb I don't know what the two dots mean but when I saw your three I thought that was funny so I could not resist I thought it was funny too, not even sure why, but it tickled me. What do the dots mean? Sometimes I see xx's I don't know what that means either.

Hey you guys at the DDI I got a new cocktail, it is called the "default negotiation" you pour all your favorite ingredients into an electric blender add plenty of ice and then unplug the blender!

The dots are the same as the xx's It's a way to clear a comment screen.

Now, some people don't realize they actually have a way to refresh the screen... it's under View, or a simpler way is to hit F5 on your keyboard.

Thanks, I learned something. Well I'll be damned a liberal just learned something from a conservative, I feel like I am breaking all the rules, we are "sticking it to the man" now Brianb.

Wasn't "sticking it to the man" in one of those 60's hit songs somewhere... Left a good job in the city... working for the man every night and day... Rollin, rollin, rolling down the river...

This night has sure been nostalgic for me... lots of old dusty files brought out of the brain....

I'll have to continue tomorrow... I have to work a half day before my weekend actually begins.... Love the new job... even though I am still in an underqualified position it's still construction and I love the process of building.

Brian and Forrest, Just returned from visiting a friend.

Seeing it is about the 60's tonight, I keep humming the "Eve of Destruction".

yes, liberals, conservatives, and independents can be passionate, state their beliefs and know at the end of the day we all want the best for each other and especially for those without a voice or power in our country. In my youth I distrusted my government. they lied and were a bunch of old white men that wanted to send young men to fight in a war that did not make sense.

Years later, I feel just as passionate about the issues of the day but much more pragmatic and know I can live with it.

Northstar - Eve of Destruction eh? Betcha can't remember who recorded the original version... the one that played on the radio back in the mid 60's. No fair peeking at the internet either... this is a memory quiz. I'll give you a hint... initials BM.

Feisty:

If you're talking to me - that ain't ever going to happen! ;o)

LoL Of course, not. Who would ever want you to? Not I? That was for GOPx.

He won't, either. ;-)

Brian, After a pot of coffee and reading the morning paper , I still cannot remember who BM is? It is driving me crazy. So I await your assistance...

Your lyrics in the above post...rolling on the river. Saw Tina Turner in person singing this hit of hers. Now I can't remember the name of her song.?

I am getting old...

P.S. Glad you like your new job!

He won't, either. ;-)

And that's a good thing! ;o)

Hey all progressive name callers, it's me the teabilly, tea bagger, whatever you libbies are calling me today, just came by to say I have been to the Tea Party sites this morning. We may not get the significant cuts or the balanced budget amendment that we require but we will find out who we need to get rid of on the Republican side in the future. We may lose this battle but the war is not over and we will be stronger for it. By the way you can call me Ray or you can call me Jay but I am here to stay, LOL. The LOL is for you Fiesty.

Now that it is out that the tea party wants to get rid of social security and to protect the tax cuts to the rich at all cost. You think their popularity will grow?

I know that faux has a good propaganda machine. Do really think it is good enough to talk granny out of her social security?

I find it very hypocritical that bonner would stand up and claim how we need to control Democrats spending and he is one who actually voted to get us here today with unfunded tax cuts and unfunded wars.

We are fiscal conservatives except when bush was president.

This small government that the rich have sold you on is nothing more than them getting the government out of the way so they can rape America along with her environment.

If tea partiers really cared about the budget or the deficits they would be screaming get out of the wars. The wars are eating our economy alive.

Instead they push forever tax cuts for the rich with their balance budget amendment. Tea partiers actions show that they don't care much about America and anyone outside the teapot can see that.

Northstar Proud Mary is the Tina Turner song I'll let Brian tell you who BM is

Thanks Mr. Boehner for your perseverance! America needs our leaders to step up and act rationally to counter the libretards that are destroying this country! With a President-in-Training in the White House who has never had a real world job in his life and a Senate leader incapable of forming a sentence, we are surrounded by so many misguided politicians who refuse to listen to the very folks who put them in office.... thankfully the kid in the WH will soon be gone along with dirty Harry who has done nothing to help his liberal cause other than to prove he may be suffering from early stages of Alzheimer's disease! He too has promised not to run again, just hope he doesn't forget that promise as well. Time for real hope and change for America! I just can't understand why the libretards at this site can't figure out how to remove their blinders!

OK Northstar, I know you've been hanging on with baited breath... (smile) Barry McGuire. He was a one hit wonder. Several years ago, to make a little extra money, I worked as a weekend DJ for an oldies station. Not too many songs and artists escape my memory from that era. Too bad so many radio stations have gone satellite... doing the DJ work was enjoyable but now just about everyone uses music services with satellite signals for their music. It's become automated. Kinda takes all the fun out of it. Local radio - going the way of the buggy whip.

Hey, Bob Jones ... is it okay to just call you Bob?

@ Brianb ~ Buggy whips will never go out of fashion.

Really.

There's a lot of words to descrbe Obama.... weak and inept are two frequent descriptions we've seen, so are failure, narcisstic, and incompetent. I think dangerous is a very approriate, especially now.... No one, not even savy political observers on both sides of the fence can figure out what he's doing? Or why, lol! Does he not have handlers that are supposed to keep him from 'walking into walls'? Are they all nuts?

Arrogant and Thin-skinned are appropriate descriptive words for Obama too! When he was a neighborhood organizer he didn't have to suffer the verbal slings and arrows of being a President! It's hard to be an effective negotiator at that stage and with those flaws. This is not the best of times to have a neophte in the White House!

The Independent-2245816

With the bill tabled now in the Senate, at least we will get to see the Senate version before too long.

I wouldn't hold your breath, all Harry Reid is got is his thumb up his ass. What have you done besides flapping your gums and being an obstructionist Harry to solve the problem

Brian, thank you so much. I had the Barry,but my brain could only come up with Barry Manilow.LOL.

Yes, he was a one hit wonder,but that song had its place in its day. You are a man of many talents. DJ, Cool.

Bob Jones, thanks for the name of Tina's song.

Now I have my Saturday music picked out, its a 60's revival! Starting with Mn finest: Bob Dylan.

I will return to the threads if Senate, House does anything meaningful today.

You two keep up the good fight....

Yes Anna you can call me Bob, I just called you Anna hope thats okay. I know your friends call you AM but I am a teapublican (Fiesty) and may not qualify.

Actually boys, Proud Mary was written by J. Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival and they were the first to record it.... belive it was number one on billboard's chart. But Tina Turner did a mighty fine job with it too!!

Sally Rocks - You are absolutely correct. CCR did Proud Mary before Tina, but Tina added a zing to it that revived the song. Those were the days of 3-4 minute hits because you couldn't put much more time onto a 45 RPM. Does anyone remember Bubble Puppy, or Winchester Cathedrial? How about Spanky and our Gang... and the BeeGees before disco? I'll never forget "I Started a Joke." How about when Chicago was called "Chicago Transit Authority?" Who can forget the "5th Dimension?" ::snicker:: now I have all the old people thinking... LOL.

Anna Molly said: Brianb ~ Buggy whips will never go out of fashion.

Ouuuuuuhhhhhh. Smack my hide.... Anna... be nice now! ;o)

Northstar... Barry Manilow? ROFL!!! That was cute! Now, when thinking about Barry Manilow... what's the first song that pops into your head...

How about 5 Man Electrical Band? What was their famous song?

Tommy James and the Shondels? Song?

The Zombies? Song? or Songs? There were a few.

Here's one I'll bet you will NOT be able to remember, but the song hit number one in 1966.

Napolean XIV - what was the name of their song? And when you find out, you'll do one of those head smack thingies...

Like Mr. T said in Rocky 3... I got lotsa more... LOL!

You conservative are always so sure its everyone else with the blinders on.

Just what is the fascination of turning all our money and our country over to the rich?

Republicans got the 2/3 to do anything balance budget in California. Is that really the example you want to follow? What republican has got something good to say about California's budget problems? This same permanent gridlock is what you think is best for the United States?

If they had said let follow California's lead to a successful economy, how many of you would be so ready to follow?

It may look good on paper, but the real plan is to never raise taxes on the rich again and kill social security.

If this is republicans being smart, I take being a libtard any day of the week.

Brian, I think of Mandy to answer your first question.

Tommy James and the Shondels:" I think we are alone now".

I cheated and looked up 1966: Ballad of the Green Berets. Still a lot of innocence in 66, but blown away by 1968.

My play list for Saturday : Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Jerry Butler, Sly and Family Stone, Big Brother and the Holding Company, and who was their lead singer, Brian?

Really walking down memory lane today, while speaker Boehner announced the country is still stuck.

Well ,still waiting for new movement in D.C.

@ Bob Jones ~ Anna or AM are fine. Just don't call me looney or loony or Moonbat and I won't call you Teabagger. p.s. I wouldn't have called you Teabagger anyway.

@ Brianb ~ Used judiciously, a buggy whip enhances any social occasion. Used somewhat less judiciously, a buggy whip might do Congress some good right now.

Bonus points: "They're Coming to Take Me Away." Someone here probably sent them. ;-)

Barry Manilow: "Somewhere in the Night."

Anna Molly:

How is it that such a play-it-down-the-middle type of non-temperamental lady like yourself seems to attract these spurious references to S & M?

Quick, anybody remember the band Grand Funk Railroad? They're playing in downtown Detroit tonight next to the ren-cen outdoor concert stage.

Did they have any songs they were famous for? Apparently they were from Flint, Michigan.

And no fair Googling.

Americans First -

You conservative are always so sure its everyone else with the blinders on. AF - I can't speak for all conservatives, but I'm wondering about the validity of your questions. In the way you ask, it's more of a conviction instead of an inquiry. See, I can tell the difference by the tone and verbage that you feel insulted by some conservatives... I have stated repeatedly on these boards that the blame goes to everyone and not just one group. There have been abuses from both the republicans and the democrats... Maybe it's time the people realize it and do something about it. Throw out the trash.

Just what is the fascination of turning all our money and our country over to the rich? The original intent of tax cuts were to free up capital for everyone. Someone who was against GWB came up with the "Tax cuts for the rich" tag line. It spread like wildfire and for some crazy reason it stuck with the liberals because they couldn't stand him and their hatred grew over time. One fact of life is, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. It's a matter of mathmatics and compound interest. The beauty of this country is... you can become rich too. If you have a great idea, the ability to work hard, place your personal industry into growing the idea and reaping the benefit of it. I won't go into the complete philosophy of getting rich, but you can and are allowed to do it too.

Republicans got the 2/3 to do anything balance budget in California. Is that really the example you want to follow? What republican has got something good to say about California's budget problems? This same permanent gridlock is what you think is best for the United States? I have no idea what the legislative body in California looks like. I reside and work on the east coast. I do know California has major budget problems and is in as much debt as many small countries are. All that comes to mind is.. they just think differently than I do. I am aware of the illegal immigration problem in the state and the millions of illegals that live there are definitely a drain on the public budget. No one seems to want to tackle that problem though. They treat it as if it doesn't exist. Here's a case where political correctness does not work.

It may look good on paper, but the real plan is to never raise taxes on the rich again and kill social security. If you become rich, then you will be thankful. OK, I'm just kidding... That's not the plan at all. Nobody, even conservatives want to kill social security. Some adjustments to the program can be made to streamline it, make it more efficient, modernize it, create a situation where they spend less money to get it to work, but nobody wants to kill it. Some conservatives have suggested that the rate of payouts may be too high considering the amount of people it services, but that's it. The social security program of today isn't anything like it was set up to be. People live longer, and the baby boom generation have placed a much greater burden on the system than anyone ever imagined possible when it was first implemented. Why do the liberals insist that social security wants to be eliminated by conservatives? I'm conservative and I don't want it eliminated.

GOP said:

Anna Molly:

How is it that such a play-it-down-the-middle type of non-temperamental lady like yourself seems to attract these spurious references to S & M?

OMG! How funny! GOP, I think Anna's a live one. Ever heard the expression... "still water runs deep?" Anna must be a lake on a calm day.

Northstar... of course Mandy... Tommy James and the Shondels - I think of "Crimson in Clover"

Anna was correct about Napoleon XIV. There coming to take me away.

Big Brother and the Holding Company.... there is no lead singer for that group other than the lady that sang the blues... who died at 27... Janice Joplin.

GOP - They are famous for the songs "We're an American Band," "I'm your Captain," and "The Loco-motion"

@ Brian, Without Janis Joplin the band was nothing. You are so kind in calling her a lady. She was explosive. She grew up in Texas, went back to her high school reunion and almost got run out of town by the locals.She paved the way for strong female singers in many ways. She died of an overdose. The movie "The Rose" with Bette Midler is based on her life. Good movie if you haven't seen it. Great music. She was the #1 female rock and blues artist of her time.

In fact if she was still alive and doing blogging, she would love Feisty.

GOP: "the Loco-Motion" is one of the best dance songs of that era!!

Stiil no new news from D.C. so I feel like I am not highjacking this bog with other talk while we wait...

Hey Feisty speaking of Victoria Secret, I saw where Larry Flynt is offering Casey Anthony 500,000.00 for a layout in Hustler, There's hope for you yet ;o)

GOPx ~ How is it that such a play-it-down-the-middle type of non-temperamental lady like yourself seems to attract these spurious references to S & M?

LoL Are you trying to tell me something? Like, I started this one myself?

Besides, non-temperamental is a relative term. I have my moments.

Don't we all?

Brianb ~ OMG! How funny! GOP, I think Anna's a live one. Ever heard the expression... "still water runs deep?" Anna must be a lake on a calm day.

Something like that.

I think of "Crimson in Clover"

Over and over ....

Oh, my ... did I do it again? ;-)

Grand Funk was from Mt. Vernon Ill. Five man electrical band did the song "signs".

Bob jones, be carefull of what you wish for. Obstinate tea partiers are just as easy to lose office as any republican or democrat. Keep this in mind when you seek out support for your programs and find none. Biting the hand that feeds you only leads to starvation.

Anna said:

Brianb ~ OMG! How funny! GOP, I think Anna's a live one. Ever heard the expression... "still water runs deep?" Anna must be a lake on a calm day.

Something like that.

I think of "Crimson in Clover"

Over and over ....

Oh, my ... did I do it again? ;-)

Only your hairdresser knows for sure Anna... One of these days you'll have to indulge us with your carriage whip stories... Somehow I think they might liven up the joint.... :o)

Maybe, but you'll have to buy. My stories don't come cheap.

Unless, of course, you ask nicely. ;-)

Anna, that depends on what the price is. Buying is an artform. Many different types of payment can be arranged. What's on your mind? I'm all into trade and barter. ;o) Remember I am a capitalist... LOL!

Ah, yes...hypocrisy.

Let's see...we have Senator Barack H. Obama (D-IL) voting in 2006 against raising the debt ceiling. Yes, that's right...AGAINST raising the debt ceiling.

Now, we find out that Senator Sherrod Brown (D-OH) voted FOR a balanced budget amendment when he was House member Rep. Sherrod Brown (D-OH). Presumably, now that he's a U.S. Senator, he'll have no problem with voting for it one more time...hypocrisy aside, I mean.

Hyprocrisy.

Ahh...

What can you do?

The difference Mixed is that neither Brown nor Obama had a lock hold on the short hairs of either their compadres OR their constituents at the time. They were going with the flow not fighting common sense. Now these jokers what it all their way or they will drag us all down the provervbial rabbit hole.

Frankly I don't want to live in dirt or with wildlife no matter how holier than thou they are.

What can I do? VOTE and BITCH.

Boehner said he stuck his neck outta Mile, then in Turtlelike(McConnel style) fashion, when President Obama mentioned Revenue:

He Tucked His Tail & Ran!

And Ran

And Ran!

I thought he almost Choked up again, was I seeing things, or did that happen?

Boehner said he stuck his neck outta Mile

He should of stuck it out a mile and a quarter - he's got enough skin hanging around there!

All I could think of Rick, was the epic turkey grinder Wasilla Hillbilly video! lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJd_vm9VhpU

The idea is to fish or cut bait before the bait goes bad. Sorry Johnny but yours has already turned rancid and a tweet and a twitter ain't going to fix that. Lie down with the Tea Party folks and your bound to wake up with with an ignorant flea or two gnawing on your leg.

Nice to see the tube machine is running smoothly up on the hill!

All my best to you & Miss. Elly!

I forgot about the Hillbilly grinding turkeys, and Palin being her perky but oblivious self -- as we've come to realize is her constant state of being. When Julianne Moore said she is struggling with Palin's Alaska accent, I thought, is that what you call it? Just talk in run-on sentances with "also" at the end, spinkled with occasional snarky insults, and do it with a shrill voice akin to fingernails on a chalk board, and you'll have it.

In the meantime... the Unbalanced Amendment is now being called the single most stupid legislation in history.

Hey Feisty, Got a chilled white wine over at the DDI I could sure use one. What a horrible week for the USA.

Name your 'poison' lisa - over @ the DDI we're always chilled! ;o)

Is anybody else scared that this might be the end of us? America I mean.

GOP.....yes it is scary, America took a hit tonight and we, her citizens did too.

No, GOPisextinct, I do not.

I do, however think we are in for some very rough economic times brought to us by the Republican/TP Inc. party. Through the abject ignorance of a small faction, they are managing to drag this country closer to a depression than we have ever been since The Great Depression. The only hope is that in 2012, through the demonstration of their total ignorance by an economy in tatters, they will be unceremoniously voted out of office. Luckily, they have no chance of getting a BBA done in that time and any really damaging legislation they forced to occur can be reversed.

I don't know if I'd go that far... the end of America. My gut tells me we'll get through this and come out on the other side.

If I may endulge for a moment... I have a nugget of thought about what the Tea Party is doing. Now this might take a moment of reasonable thought, so hang onto your hats and try to follow along.

For many years our government has been following along a path where they've spent more than they took in. It's not about the amount of revenue brought in through taxes. It's about the government not making adjustments to their spending when slow years happened, or a quirk in the economy caused disruptions of the inflow. If you look back to when the debt started, many years ago, at first it was reasonable, even though it always put us in a negative position. Debt always does. It makes a person, or a country beholden to someone else... can we agree so far?

With politicians it's always 2 things... getting re-elected or bringing home the bacon so to speak. The politicians want to bring federal dollars into their districts in order to fund projects, or seemingly noble causes. After a while and with so many of them doing it, coupled with emergencies, wars, or what have you, the debt has grown. There is no one politician, or party that is more responsible than any other... no matter what prejudice you may carry with your ideology. (Remember, we are trying to be reasonable here, not blaming anyone in particular because that is unproductive).

Over the years, our debt has become dangerous. Imagine a 13.2 trillion pound weight over your house held in place by a single metal column. If the wind blows too hard, that weight can cause the column to collapse. The inertness of the weight now turns kenitic. The house becomes a pancake.

For as much as you may dislike the Tea Party and what it stands for, they have been obstructionists to adding onto the weight over your house. I think a lot of people have lost sight of that weight because they think by not adding to it, will cause a disaster. The fact is, adding to it will cause it to become more heavy, more unstable and eventually the column will collapse under the weight without any help from an outside source.

What the Tea Party congressional members have done is make this country very aware of the problem... even if you don't agree with their methods. All this talk about them signing a paper with Grover Norquist is political banter and rethoric spawned on by liberal talking points in order to rile up the liberal base. So what if they signed an agreement to not raise taxes? Does it really matter in the long run? Even if they had never signed that paper, they would still be doing what they are doing. They made promises to people in their districts to stand fast and follow the will of their constituants. When has THAT BECOME A BAD THING IN AMERICA? You really need to ask yourself that question. How many of you would want their members of congress to agree to do something and actually stick to it? I'll bet many of you would.

Please consider what the Tea Party congressional members are attempting to do. They are keeping to their vows, trying to bring recognition to the largest problem this nation faces and utilizing the only tools they have in their tool box to try to stop the status quo. When you really think about it, they are not the enemy... in the end, they may actually be the protectorate. There's been enough negative talk about the Tea Party by both parties, democrats and republicans alike. How about trying to understand what they are all about instead of insisting your ideological beliefs are better than theirs.

Brianb

Thank you for sharing that with us, I couldn't agree with you more.

There is a hidden agenda...

BrianB I agree with much of what you said but I have to believe that in keeping their word the people from their districts would at least want them to cancel subsidies for the most profitable companies the world has ever seen, and not just take it out on their hides. If it is fair for everybody to share the costs, why do they insist that the wealthiest people be exempt, why should they pay a much lower percentage of their income in taxes as you and I do. You can't tell people who have paid into a system all their working lives that it turns out the money is not there the deal has changed, but the money is still there for Exon. Total conviction without fairness and common sense can be damn dangerous.

Forrest - On the surface it may appear that way. Since they are the new kids on the block, they may not have all the answers yet. Remember, their primary goal at this point is to get the status quo stopped. The status quo is for the government to increase taxes and spend the money without accountability. If you stop the federal government from receiving more, in essence they can't just go out and spend it willy nilly... I know, and so do you, the government does it anytime they have excess revenue. They will find a place to spend it.

In the long run, the Tea Party isn't against increasing the corporate taxes by removing loopholes, but not just yet. We all know the government will waste the money. Think about it... how do you stop your child from getting too fat? You remove the cookies from the countertop. That may be simplistic, but you can't deny the logic.

One other thing... if they cave, how much credibility will they ever gain? They will fade into the annals of mediocrity. And... if they are correct, how much good will they actually do?

Sensible compromises that promote fairness and the greater good in the long run of both parties overall even though they slightly reduce another particular component of the contract is not caving in, it is the art and heart of bargaining and negotiating in good faith. Although the negotiations I have been involved with has between two parties that depend on each other to make a living.

The government overall is showing its ineptness. Bi-partisan agreement is needed, but it is not the way government works - I hate to inform you of this, but you should not be surprised. So be prepared to acknowledge this, as we cannot accuse Republicans without also wagging the finger at Democrats - remember ObamaCare - this was not bi-partisan and was passed behind closed doors by the Democrats without Republicans at the table (whether you agree with ObamaCare or not). You can cry foul, but if you just stop and remove all of your filters, you'll realize this is true. I'm a disappoint American citizen - not liberal or conservative, not extreme. We need our Congress, Senate and President(s) to work for the American people and not their party!

Forrest - The dynamics of dealing with government officials on this level is different. Remember, it's not just the democrats that are against the Tea Party, it's the republicans too... and in some cases, the republicans are more vicious. The Tea Party is swimming upstream against a huge opposing force. They are infants when compared to the two legs that have been standing for years. In many cases you can look at them as an underdog. You may not realize it, but the Tea Party has instituted an element that both parties are not used to... fear. Anytime this level of change is initiated, fear is the result. Fear of the unknown, fear of being bested, fear of the populus... In my memory, I have never seen both parties as fearful of a new emerging element like I have with the Tea Party. There are other registered parties, Libertarian, Green, even communist... but none of these groups pose a threat to the established powerhouses.

Their method to do what they initially want to do is act like a solid brick wall... No compromise, no altering the objective, no way for them to be fooled into doing something one party or the other wants. They are smart enough to know how the game is played... and they aren't playing it by conventional rules. To the experienced watcher of politics, this is a new approach... not been tried by others before. Like I said earlier, you may not agree with their methods... but they don't require you to.

My Tequila can make your hair stand on end.

Brian B.

Used to be a tequila guy. I don't know why, but I enjoyed the cheaper tequila. I tried the really expensive blue agave with the crooked hand-blown blue glass bottle, and old-fashioned cork stopper and the fancy rope, but after fair trial couldn't get next to it.

I drank the Mezcal with the fat, drowned grub in the bottom. They say it absorbs impurities. I don't think that worm was in any condition to do anything really. The Mezcal tasted "smokier" to me. I just liked it better.

Eating the worm seems to defeat the purpose of absorbing impurities don't you think?

Anyway I seem to gravitate more toward pomegranate martinis lately. Slowing down in my old age, but I remember younger days and wilder times,....and smoky tequila.

What were once vices are now called habits, eh?

GOP - My favorite is, and probably always will be, Cuervo. I don't think I could stomach the grub. I'm a clear liquid kind of guy... LOL. About 2 weeks before I left for Air Force basic training, back when I was 18 and it was legal to drink then... (geez, I'm dating myself, aren't I?), My cousins wanted me to go out bar hopping with them to celebrate my enlistment. I decided I was going to stick with one type of drink... I chose Tequila... don't know why... I just did. I wasn't a drinker... but who could turn down such an opportunity since they were paying the tab. I stuck to Tequila sunrises all night. After about 5 bars and about 10 drinks each, my cousins were smashed. I was the only sober one in the group. They were mixing different types of booze. Even now, I can drink it and it has little effect on my state of mind. I can't say the same thing about beer, or whiskey... And to this day I can't drink Southern Comfort (yuk)... that's an entirely different story to be saved for a later time....

Awww, what the hell. I was 14. My parents went out of town... stayed with my cousins... we were a close family. My mom gave me a 20 before they left so I could get food out, etc. Back then 20 was a fortune to me. Anyway, my cousins and me ended up at a mutual friends house. His parents went out for the evening. He had a big brother and he was willing to run to the store to get us anything we wanted. At 14, I didn't know what was what, so one of my friends said he liked Southern Comfort. I went along. 4/5ths of a pint only cost 2 bucks back then so, paid the money and embarked upon what many people would call a nightmare. We started drinking what each of us had. I didn't realize Southern Comfort was 80 proof. 4/5ths of a pint certainly didn't seem like a lot to me so the bottle went down pretty fast.

We were hanging out in the living room listening to music... I think it was Santana... someone said... let's go to the playground and shoot some hoops, so we all took for the door. Already forgetting that I had just downed a huge vial of poison, I went along... the moment I stepped out of the door, I ran smack into the devil. My world went upside down, it became a blur and I felt like someone had removed a portion of my brain. I honestly don't remember how I got down the stairs. The freight train had left the station and took a huge portion of me with it. I can only remember bits and pieces... but somehow I ended up back at my cousins house in bed with a pail on the floor right next to me.

The next morning I felt like I was hit by that freight train. So to this day, I can't even stand the smell of Southern Comfort. Never again.

So what you are saying is: I didn't know if I had a bottle in front of me or a frontal lobotomy?

Actually Forrest, I think I was Southern Comforted.... Some big burly backwoods hairy monster thumped me on the head and out I went.

You know, I remember the couple of days after that... I felt like I had the flu. I probably OD'd on the alcohol but I was strong enough to pull through it. The foolish things yutes do. I learned a very strong lesson from that experience. Taught me at an early age to never do it like that again.

I think a frontal lobotomy might have been less painful... LOL.

Does anyone have the heart to tell Brianb about the 'surgery'?

The bill passed on a 218-210 vote, winning no Democratic support while losing 22 Republicans. -- http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-house-debt-vote-20110729,0,200167.story

So in fact the Boehner CC&B feudalism retread was not bipartisan. However, I like the claim that since 22 Republicans voted against it, there was bipartisan opposition.

Careful with than analogy, lest we be reminded of the series of HCR votes.

How apripos... the democrats being the party of no.

Brianb-999431

How apripos... the democrats being the party of no.

Right Brian. "No" to balancing the budget on the backs of working people. "No" to tax cuts for fat cats. "No" to economic chaos.

It doesn't matter what they said no to... It didn't matter to you what the republicans said no to either... you found a way to complain about them each and every time. Now the democrats are doing it.. it's perfectly ok with you... Amazing how fast opinions change when the wind blows in a different direction... isn't it? Especially when you carry with you the title "democrat" like a 200 lb weight.

@ Brianb ~ Not yet. They got 59 votes to table. Just one short for cloture. By the way, why would Republicans want to fillibuster a bill right now, which they say they will do? Isn't that "no." And wouldn't they want to get two bills that could be reconciled in conference, while they pass a temporary extension?

We don't have time for any more theatrics. NO to phony-baloney theatrics.

@EPine ~ Whatever bipartisan support Boehner thinks he had melted away in the heat from the pizza oven. There were NO democratic votes today.

Brianb--when you're faced with people whose idea of a compromise is 'our way or nothing', you have to say no.

GOPie--right on the button, as usual!!!

"democrat" like a 200 lb weight.

But I weigh 215,....and thanks Sueb1.

x

How quickly we forget... There was another legislation that occured about a year and a half ago... and to my recollection, republicans were told to go to the back of the bus.... One Barack Hussein Obama said it in a speech before the vote. He said... "they had their chance... now it's ours to win."

Brainb,

You know that doesn't count because they got their way. Now that don't control the purse they're pissed off.

No.

Of course not, the little sh!ts never own up to anything.

The Boehner bill will go to the senate and be gutted, replaced by the Reid "bill" with minority leader McConnel's input to design something that they can get back to the house where the speaker will have to pick up at least 50 democratic votes as he is sure to lose even more republicans than in his initial proposal, the one lacking the balanced budget "poison pill". The necessity for truly bipartisan support will weaken the speaker within his ranks (because compromise is a dirty word) but probably not with the American people.

According to the two talking heads, (one liberal one conservative) on the PBS NewsHour, interviewing Reid together 2 weeks ago, he predicted exactly how things would go right up to tonight. He predicted that both parties would drop the hard choices and that it would come down to HIS bill in the senate as the house would produce a bill that could never pass the senate.

If there is going to be any resolution of this before the deadline they have to get this process done over the weekend. Now the two major players over the past two weeks, the president and the speaker are both on the sidelines and it falls to Sens Reid and McConnel to be the last chance saloon before default. As neither party's sacred cows, "taxes" and "entitlements" are included, there is enough wiggle room to craft a crappy enough bill to pass the senate then to get 150 republicans and enough democrats to make up the difference in the house.

Dangerfield..

Spot on with one exception.

It gets gutted..balanced budget out...replaced by a combination of Reid-McConnell proposals...passes the Senate with bipartisan support....goes to the House where it is defeated.

That shows all the members of both parties that nothing can be done and they've proved that with all the options in all the bills proposed..

What's left....Reid- McConnell...

That passes with a simple majority.

End crisis.

Good weekend.

Ira - you don't think the house democrats will support a compromise?

What I would like to see is a two step approach to raising the debt ceiling. The voters really need to see who wants to effectively address our constantly raising the debt ceiling without addressing the reasons why we keep doing it. There is nothing the left can do to calm the markets by extending it to 2013. The same problems will exist then as now unless one assumes that congress and the WH will be again controlled by the same party (L or R) as in 2009 and 2010. Reminds me of the view that many economists and analysts believe that greece is still headed for default regardless of the EU trying varying tactics to bail them out.

Feisty are you talking about Oboma Care and the Dems

NOPE!

I'm talking about the tea bagging taliban who can't differentiate between debt & deficit!

Please, do try to keep up & thanks for playing... ;o)

Was that can Delmonte or Chef-Boy ar-Dee?

Alpo, because that is what the Democrats want you to eat.

da noid - but obama must be the better kicker, he wants to kick it out to 2013.

When the economy gets tossed in the hopper because of this vote I'm sure they won't have any problem blaming the President, of course.

Do you really think the rating agencies would base their downgrade on a vote from 1/2 of Congress? Don't believe the rhetoric. The ratings downgrade will come later when the next budget bill fails or we have another continuing resolution to place a few trillion more dollars into the deficit spending pattern. Once the debt to GDP crosses over 100%, you will likely get the downgrade.

The credit rating will definitely be downgraded if the debt ceiling is raised.

say it - S & P warned of a downgrade earlier this year if a credible medium and long term plan for addressing the debt wasn't made. Obama outright ignored it and many FR libs pooh-poohed it.

It seems that obama and company will again ignore it by rhetoric and no wrtitten plan.

Can't say that indepents timeline is right, but a downgrade seems inevitable due to congressional partisanship and obama choosing partisanship over trying to create unity within congress. A rather sad reflection on obamas leadership abilities when he has to ask the populace to lead.

ctborn56, Your are right. The Senate deep six-ed the House bill by 59 votes. but Mitch McConnell will not allow a simple majority vote on Reid's proposal, he refuses to talk to Reid as of right now, 8pm CDT. Mitch and the Repub will filibuster any attempt of Reid to bring forth his bill. Boehner has agreed to a simple up or down vote from whatever comes to them from the Senate.

Reid is having a news conference right now.

Lawrance ODonnell" Last Word was spot on tonight. The House bill was DOA and Boehner knew this. Lawrence O says Boehnner was politician who spoke without power. O'Donnell is leaning toward a Constitutional solution. Had a legal scholar on from UCLA. Check out the video's from his program tonight.

Time truely is running out.

I am ready to support the !4th Amendment option and release our country from the hostage taking by the

Teapublican and their Shock Doctrine of bringing our country to the brink of disaster.

ok .. let's say you go for that option and it actually works. Exactly how many trillions do you think you should raise the debt ceiling? And when do you expect to pay it back?

I am thinking it solves nothing. We still borrow too much and spend to much. Until these two trends are reversed, and fixing the unemployment rate will go a long way towards that, we will rack up another ten trillion in five years.

Nancy Pelosi needs to be committed to an insane asylum. Harry Reid should just be ignored.

Independent, If it works, it separates the debt ceiling from deficit/budget solutions. The country will not be in default. Our elected politicians can then argue, fight and compromise to produce a budget that begins to tackle the deficit with the 2012 fiscal year that begins October 1,2011. the tea party fanatics will not be the major players because they too will have to stand for reelection, and we all will be watching.

And if they still cannot get it done, then we all go to the voting booth in 2012.

OK North .. I can see that point of view. Since we have not had a budget passed by the Congress for a very long time now, I do not blame the opposition for using the debt debate as leverage. The Democrats could have easily passed a budget when they controlled both houses, or amended the most recent one and had the "adult conversation" but they have not. So one cannot be surprised they picked the first trigger that will force a national debate.

At the end of the day a political calculation was made before the mid-term elections to not pass a budget. Now we have a more right wing faction exercising power they never should have had if the Congress was honest with the electorate and dealt with the root cause two years ago. So now we have the results with a forced "austerity" measure as a result of the mid-terms. And this will end up being an even larger issue in the next election.

Independent, There is enough blame to go around in the past, but that will not help us in the next three days. The Senate and Congress have only days to find a way to raise the debt ceiling to prevent default for the first time in our history.

We will see if our leaders can put our country first...

I am an optimist at heart, but I see no evidence that the default will be prevented. If the bankers, lobbyist, can't get their politicians to see reality, let alone the public , then I think our President should take the 14th Amendment option which will allow him to raise the debt ceiling and put our country in a Constitutional Crisis.

It doesn't help that the Republicans have become masters of the filibuster. It's become a personal vendetta against President Obama and they wield it against anything that he supports from a budget to any person he tries to appoint to a position.

Hey, roseone, remember when the Republican/TP Inc. party was calling for a debt commission? Suddenly, President Obama agreed that there should be one and would work with Congress to set it up. All of a sudden, the Republican/TP Inc. party was against it. So, despite the right's faux outrage and opposition, President Obama set up the Simpson-Bowles commission. Now the Republican/TP Inc. are complaining that President Obama is not implementing the spending cuts of Simpson-Bowles while they ignore the revenue increases of the commission's recommendations.

This could be called simple hypocrisy if it weren't for the very plainly stated goal of the Republican/TP Inc. party was to bring this president down, as articulated by both Republican/TP Inc. party leaders in both Houses of Congress.

roseone

It doesn't help that the Republicans have become masters of the filibuster. It's become a personal vendetta against President Obama and they wield it against anything that he supports from a budget to any person he tries to appoint to a position.

roseone, I could care less if they take him out on the lawn of the White Hhouse and slap his ass and call him Sally. At least the Republicans in the House have tried to do something.

Last night Harry Reid and the Senate Democrats voted to table House Amendment to S. 627 (Budget Control Act of 2011) ; on 7/22 they voted to table H.R. 2560 (Cut, Cap, and Balance Act of 2011). Back on 5/31, Nancy Pelosi and 88 other Democrats in the House voted to defeat bill H.R.1954 (To implement the President's request to increase the statutory limit on the public debt).

The Republican House has shown that they are trying to do something about the problem. Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid have done nothing but play games!

Here is how the Republican/TP Inc party 'has done something'.

Compromise as practiced by the Republican/TP Inc. party:

Step 1: Tell the other side that they must agree to everything you want, they must get absolutely nothing they want and then walk out of negotiations when they do not agree. Complain that the other side would not compromise by giving up everything they wanted and just accepting what you wanted.

Step 2: When offered a deal accepting many things . . . wait, almost everything you wanted plus some things the other side wants, declare that the other side refuses to compromise because they would not give up everything they wanted . . . and walk out.

Step 3: Offer a bill that has everything you want and nothing the other side wants. Complain that the other side won't compromise because they would not accept your bill.

Step 4: Walk out of subsequent negotiations again, despite getting more than you asked for. Complain that the other side would not compromise by giving up everything they wanted and just accepting what you wanted.

Step 5: Write another bill that included only the things you wanted, even with the certain knowledge that the other side would not approve it. Complain that the other side would not compromise by giving up everything they wanted and just accepting what you wanted.

Step 6: Go on TV, play the victim, and declare that when the economy crashes it was all because the other side would not compromise by just accepting everything you wanted and getting nothing they wanted.

Hey, Glenn-2073644, how much are you being paid to post those talking points? You do know that they are lies, right? You do know that no one believes them, right?

Actually, marc huff, it is their plan. Let me repeat that, it really, and truly is their plan to crash the economy. This allows them the chance to enact policies that would never be able to be passed in a stable economic environment.

No, I am nota conspiracy theorist. There are two books that you need to read:

'The Wrecking Crew' by Thomas Frank

'The Shock Doctrine' by Naomi Klein

it really, and truly is their plan to crash the economy.

I'm getting more convinced of it by the hour Matthew. Republican/TP politicians have been quoted saying as much explicitly. Boehner said something to the effect of "the more chaos, the better" recently.

Between this and the previous administration's chaos (911) it has gotten a lot of legislation passed that would not have passed in quieter times.

Marc, Not only did the ERA admendment not pass, but a couple of states that voted for it, later took back their vote. It was years, and the states took their time even bringing it up.

you can take it back what is this 9 year old playing tag...thanks...

at least the right submits plans to vote on, where are the senates written plans? where are obamas written plans? I can hold the houses passed bills in my hand, I can't hold obamas rhetoric or the senates rhetoric. That alone tells me a lot.

OMG, let's count the parroted talking points starting with "blank check." You don't need to know what's in a plan if it's: 1) short-term, 2) lacks revenue, or 3) is just Paul Ryan's CC&B plan being recycled. If Boehner had presented a long-term plan with 3 to 1 spending cuts to revenue, the Dems would have supported it easily.

and just what is wrong with short term? Why shouldn't they have to revist this issue when they want to spend billions and billions of our dollars?

So, annabelle-3082246, do you think that he political environment will be better or worse for a compromise closer to the election? Do you think that the credit rating agencies dropping our credit rating, because only a short term raise was done, will help or hinder our ability to address the long term budget problem? Do you think that a national economy can be managed the same way a household budget is handled? Do you think the debt ceiling needs to be raised to facilitate new spending or to ensure we can cover obligations we have already made?

Here, I'll give you the correct answers to those questions:

1) Worse

2) Hinder

3) No (a word the Republican/TP inc. party and supporters should be familiar with)

and

4) To cover obligations we have already made.

They raise the dept ceiling an average of every eight months. So now you think that the credit agencies are going to bark.

They should make this an issue for the 2012 election. More people tune in, let it all be discussed, and let the voters decide.

What are you afraid of? Maybe the same thing Obama is?

Obama "The only bottom line that I have is that we have to extend this debt ceiling through the next election, into 2013," President Obama said last week.

Don't bother even trying to reason with Matt- it won't work.

The ratings agencies have threatened downgrade because of the SIZE of the debt- not how long the cap is raised. Facts are not Obama's strong suit- therefore, one of the tenets of their "religion" is to ignore them,or twist them to their own use.

It's a sad little religion- their god is a failed politician who cannot tell the truth about his own dying mother. A man so inept he cannot get the year correct when signing a guest book on a state visit. A narcissist so self involved when he commits the etiquette breach of (first) failing to realize that when toasting the queen, saying "to the queen" is the signal to raise glasses, and (second), further embarrasses himself by speaking through the British national anthem and (third) compounding that by saying he thought they were playing as background music to his remarks. A corrupt politician who steals our money with impunity, and in full view of a besotted press gives billions to his donors for rainbow factories and windmill plants- in China.

You think you can have a reasonable conversation with people like this? You cannot- and they despise you for trying.

i hear blah blah .....if your so balanced budget where do you stand on the bush presidency..8 years of repb president and 6 years with both houses....he never vetod a spending bill put two wars a 4 trillion dollar tax cut, and the senior pres drug plan that was nothing more than a give away to the drug companies put that all on the credit card and handed the bill to the next president is that what you mean by being a fiscal conservatives and then the g.o.p that aided and abetted his crime blames obama....nice double axle backsomersault.........because i'm guessing your problem with the federal defc started once a demo got in to office....pissoff conservative stooge...u guys are idiots i never dreamed of saying that always believed others opinion should matter ,,,till you and the teaparty have shown your selfs to be a clear and present danger to social security medicare the economy,,,old people children,,education black hispanics gays,,,firefighter police teachers unions....did i miss anyone oh yes the rich...funny how there the only ones that get a pass..

True - seems that you have forgotten that the obama tax cuts expire in 2013. That automatically makes up the increased tax revenues for a three to one balanced approach.

Marc huff, who cares about bush? He served his elected time and he achieved bipartisan support for much legislation. Even reagan and clinton knew how to achieve bipartisanship support. Yet obama seems to be quite clueless as to how to get it. Someone should tell him that always threatening vetoes and trying to accuse the opposition of throwing granny under the bus doesn't promote bipartisanship. It sure doesn't reflect well on his ability to lead the nation through unity either. His jr senator partisanship should have been left at the gate when he swore his presidential oath of office.

libs like yourself evidently lack cognitive skills -stick to your jobs as thieves-stealing from those who actually produce in this country

Larry Robinson ####'s

There is a class of people who, no matter how much government money and benefits you throw at them, no matter how many government programs there are to help them, and no matter how many Socialist programs you put them on; that class of people will never get off their tails and actually work for a living at a real job off the public dole.

We call those people Republicans

GOPextinct - And I call people who post such dribble as your post 18.1 and 18.2 as being SIASD.

Unfortunately for you, the debt ceiling (why you call it a deficit ceiling is beyond comprehension) and the national debt are very closely related, for the national debt determines the debt ceiling limits.

To think that you think a democrat politician doesn't pander as well as a republican politician is also absurd. Better luck next time and thanks for playing.

"American"

They're separate issues. The debt ceiling vote simply pays bills we've already racked up. The vote is a formality. I think it is bass-ackwards. I think we should allocate the money, and THEN spend it instead of the other way round.

The federal deficit is the sum of all debt ceilings we've racked up since Reagan.

Carter was outraged by our $1 trillion national debt. Between Carter and January 21, 2009 we found a way to spend $13 trillion more. A lot of that is mere interest on already extant debt.

Democrats have tried to pass PAYGO legislation, blocked by the republic party.

It is a matter of record.

Ya' know Forrest, I was thinking the same thing a couple weeks ago.

I got some grains and things stored around the house cause we grind our own flour: Kamut, Spelt, Oats Groats, and Quinoa, but they might not last longer than a week or so.

Got some stuff frozen downstairs, and got my 20-gauge, side-by-side under the stairs with an ammo can full of bird shot, but that's bout it.

A pretty poor showing.

McConnell is going to filibuster the Reid plan

Really? I have this image of McConnell reading "One Fish, Two Fish" or "Sam I Am" before the Senate.

I think they should really make them do a real filibuster so that the rest of the world can see what the U.S. government is really like.

Then all the Chinese communists will have to do is to sail over here and offer to save us from these idiots.

Americans will say,..."deal".

If China sends anybody it will be the Repo men. Ha I hope they do come, get all that crap I will help load it up, we will have to go barefoot and naked for awhile but then maybe we will start making things here. Hell a lot of people might take republicans advice and start a business if they did not have to compete with China's $200 a month wages. Now that I think about it why take this out on the hides of old and sick people, sacrifice the education of the young, and ignore a crumbling infrastructure, if we are going to default I would tell China they are pretty far down the list, sorry but we can't give you what we don't have. Oh does that sound too liberal? Well then I would tell them unlike you commie's we have a Constitution which allows an incredibly well armed population, just in case something like this happens, now it sounds more conservative. OK there it is, one default plan on the table.

Matthew, Your post is clear, factual and to the point. the Teapublicans are unable to distinguish the these facts. they can only fixate on spending cuts, using a hatchet instead of a scalpel. Nothng else matters to them.

Matthew, Houston, Tx---

Step 7: Require all Republicans to take Ritalin.

Nice, Tom. I like it. Maybe they would have focused on jobs, like they promised to do, after they got elected. They've focused on everything except jobs.

you forgot number 8 which takes precedence over the first 7. Submit a plan in writing because you know the left won't until perhaps the very last minute.