Oh no, that's not true. Bachmann is in to keep them on message. YOu know all the fun stuff you dems have come to love and embrace - debts, deficits and of course spending.

That she'll toss in the occasional social issue, which given the economic times are fairly irrelevant, but fun because no that Palin is out there needs to be that automatic lever to make Libbie heads explode.

So AM and Mixed - I am hoping for no ceiling deal at all - let's force the bastards to live within their means. But we all know Boehner, Reid and McConnell and Pelosi are power hungry Whores [Obama in contrast is a clueless newbie with Hope but no actual plan] so I'm guessing we are about to get a Boehner-Reid plan.

They are after all about the same.

So if that happens I say Mixed wins, as a Boehner bill will get to Obama's desk, which he will of course sign [again, the whole newbie thing].

So good job Mixed, nice try AM, too bad we are all hosed.

Exit question - if that happens will Big Ed Schultz and Krugman's collective heads explode at the same time, of Ed's a little later? Cause I love Big Ed, but that boy is mighty slow on the uptake.

Bachmann is crazy and her husband is crazy. Romney is a loser; coming in second in Iowa and NH four years ago. Pawlenty is still boring. Huntsman continues to whisper and is making no waves. Why not have Rick Perry run? What this country does NOT need is another Texan. None of these Yahoos can beat President Obama.

Hey, Spanky --

I wonder if you'd care to comment on the fact that none of the states that Moody's lists as being "at risk" of having their own credit downgraded if the US defaults is California.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/07/27/5-states-at-risk-in-the-debt-ceiling-debate/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&iid=HP_Highlight

And most of them are, in fact, Republican states that rely heavily on federal dollars in the form of Medicaid and government contracts.

One of those is the supposedly business-friendly South Carolina -- surely you remember South Carolina, Spanky? Where Boeing wants to build in order to avoid its union obligations?

In listing South Carolina, Moody's (MCO) factored the state's vulnerability to federal contracts and Medicaid payments.

How interesting to find that South Carolina sucks so heavily off the government ... what was that you called it again?

Any comment on that?

BTW Dow's down 119. Better go make sure your gold is safe, Rumpelstiltskin.

THe gold is safe, and I suspect about to sky rocket.

I have no idea bout the ratings, but is Cali is not "at risk" there is obviously something wrong. How about NY and ILL?

Naw, those states are all gold, right?

Nope.

You could try looking at the article, Spanks. Turns out they're mostly red states.

See my other post, below, where we discuss that further.

Mitt will be our next president. The rest of the field is either broke or so extreme that mainstream America will never vote for them. And in some cases it's both. Romney is literally a genius. He knows how to turn around an economy and he plays well with moderates and independents which are by far the biggest voting bloc in the country right now. Even a large number of the ultra conservatives will vote for him because they know the most important thing is getting Obama out of office before we all have to start learning to speak Chinese.

Mitt is the man. If you can't see that you are not paying attention.

Anybody that thinks Romney is going anywhere is stupid!

romney's only real problem is that he's just not believable as a human being.

he tries hard. he's just bad at it.

Anyone want to fill our friend Amy in?

Neither the Boehner or Reid plan will save the debt rating.

But I like the analogy - the House has passed a bill and Boehner is working on another right now. THis Amy deems "playing chicken."

In contrast Obama has made several speeches, all of which the CBO reminds us it cannot score.

Now I'd ask Amy, but we all know she cannot respond - Think Progress has not told her what to think. House has done something, Obama nothing. There is a game of chicken, that's for sure.

Poor Amy. Or maybe happy Amy. Bliss. Ignorance. Answering phones.

Hey, Spanky: The President has done all that he is authorized by the Constitution to do - meet with both parties, try to get them to negotiate a compromise, and use the bully pulpit to reach the public. Under the Constitution, legislation concerning the budget has to be initiated by the House of Representatives. For President Obama to invoke the 14th amendment and raise the debt ceiling by fiat would be an impeachable offense.

So, now we care what the CBO says again?

Oh, that's right...it can be trusted again because the Republicans have the majority in the House and there is only a slight majority for the Democrats in the Senate...not like during the HCR debate when Democrats had a clear majority in both Houses.

spanky

Cheap talk again. Obama this Obama that. of what good is the house bill that was passed if it didn't become a law? This is most confused and disjointed congress ever. one minute they're for something, less than a second later, they are against it. They keep debating themselves.

Obama is not a lawmaker and his positions on this debate are very clear. how about the house doing what is JUST for the nation and not what is political expedient. Obama position will keep changing because it's a negotiation.

It's showing that GOP/TB don't know how to govern. Common sense govern and not ideology.

Hey annika:

1. the House, which as you correctly note is responsible for origination, passed a bill last week

2. Remember back when Reagan want tax reform? He produced an actual plan for that reform, which was used to negotiate with the dems and republican plans. And guess what, they all got reform enacted.

So we are left with President "Just going to vote present on this one, you all were so mean to me the last time I actually produced a plan." Annika you think they hurt his feeling when they slapped his budget plan down 97-0?

Pius - the tea party is not actually in control and cannot govern. Republican only got the House.

In contrast the President is the boss. And you are right there is no governing happening.

So where does the responsibility lie? With the boss applesauce.

But hey, durable goods hit the toilet, again. tomorrow's job numbers will undoubtedly and of course "unexpectedly" be bad, unemployment and gas is on the rise.

Bleak, bleaker, bleakest. No amout of cheer leading can overcome economic statistics and facts.

But please do keep trying.

Real quick...

I asked yesterday and never got an answer.

Except for Bachmann who unequivocally said that she would not raise the debt ceiling, has anyone heard from Romney or Perry or any of the other declared or non declared candidates.

Seems they've been awfully quiet on the issue. They should at least come out and take a position...how you gonna be President if you hide when there's a crisis.

Dang.. Spanky I know I left myself open on that question!

Kinda playing it like Obama, right?

Last I heard Ryan had endorsed Boehner, and Romney was leaning towards it.

It's ok IRA I already busted Nash on that very insightful thought, below. Sometimes it's better to let your opposition come to their own realizations on their own, right? Might be through the back door, but once the light bulb comes on...

Which is why Obama is losing on all of these issues. That dog gone light bulb.

Now Ira - you are a libbie [one of my very favorites] so riddle me this: When is it "hiding" and when is it just leading from behind?

The House didn't pass anything except the Garbage Bill that died in the Senate. I'm loving it that the Tea Bagger Terrorist are being exposed daily for the no good b@stards they really are, along with these so called Republicans whose number 1 goal is to hurt President Obama.

The old tide has changed and the American people are on the side of the President.

Remember folks, keep calling Congress.

Spanky,

Do you know what the phrase "playing chicken" means?

The principle of the game is that while each player prefers not to yield to the other, the worst possible outcome occurs when both players do not yield. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_(game)

I can't think of a better description of what the Republican House is doing over raising the debt ceiling.

They could have just raised the ceiling, as innumerable Houses have done before, but no. They put a condition it: spending cuts equal to the amount the ceiling is raised. In response, President Obama offered even more, a "Grand Bargain" of spending cuts and reasonable tax revenues to take a huge chunk out of the federal debt. But, inexplicably, the Republicans said "no."

No, Republicans have abandoned their stated goal when running for office, of lowering our federal deficit and cutting spending. Abandoned it completely in order to protect a few piddling tax loopholes. They were willing to reduce the amount of cuts to raise the the debt ceiling until just before the presidential election, all so they would have a fiery issue to continue beating President Obama over the head with. But the Democrats say "no." Democrats say, OK, cut the spending, even the entitlements, forget the tax increases, and raise the debt ceiling now.

The deadline looms, and two cars are speeding down the highway, towards each other, our economic future lies in the middle of the road...

Ira

Perry is praying to God for an answer and Romney, i guess the wave is too high for him to surf. he couldn't even do it in lake it's all mouth.

Spanky..

Difference without a distinction...they are the same.

Riddle me this..

Why not accept the Reid Plan with $2.7 trillion in cuts only.

Averts the crisis.

Then start debate on the 6 Plan or Simpson-Bowles?

The Constitutional Amendment argument is something that can be discussed LATER. Now is not the time to cripple negotiations with that albatross in the legislation.

No defending anyone's actions in this circus, but no matter what happens, no matter what they agree to, neither Obama or Boehner can do anything that will move the GOP TP caucus to a yea vote.

Later....

Ira - cause it does not address the actual problems, the entitlements and such.

And why is it tied to 1/12?

We have debated, commissioned and bloviated this to death. It's $14.5 trillion and $4 billion per day.

It's $30 billion per month in debt service.

All reasons why I hope they stick to their guns - no raising the ceiling. But of course they will.

And of course the credit rating goes down, it has to based on the debt to revenue streams.

Spanky..

Entitlements are addressed in both the 6 and Simpso-Bowles reduction plans...done.

Tied to 2012 not 2013. Fiscal year ends Sept 30...so still a talking point in the election...done

Why have another discussion...circus...like this in 6 months. Do you think the economy or country can stand it and we are avoiding the work of job legislation, etc.

The debt ceiling is raised to cover payment of existing debts....debts that were incurred by legislation of Congress...that have come due. It is not for NEW spending.

Still don't think raising the debt ceiling is a certainty....not with the rhetoric and hatred each side feels for each other.

The debt needs to always be the focus of all discussions - it has not been and we are now doom/boned.

The government cannot create jobs. You know that IRA.

The only way to make them live with in their means is not to raise the ceiling, which is why they absolutely will.

A politician that cannot dole out cash is shortly unemployed.

Spanky..

One more time..

Debating the competing public debt reduction plans keeps it in focus....and a viable solution that addresses all the problems is reached.

Government can't create jobs but can stimulate demand and growth which leads to job creation.

Again the debt ceiling needs to be raised to pay current obligations and not to incur new debt. You know the government is on a cash basis of accounting and not accrual. These are liabilities payable due to legislation approved by both Houses of Congress....they approved these debts and now refuse to honor them. Silly season at its best.

Your turn.

Last I heard, Reid's plan included "cuts" by withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan. Can't be used as it is already a reality. Has something changed?

Snakeoil salesman!

Boy ain't that the truth.

_______________________________

Think Progress:

An "unprecedented" coalition of religious leaders are coming together to urge President Obama not to sacrifice the needs of the poor in negotiations to reduce the nation's debt. Leaders from the Episcopal Church, the Salvation Army, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the National Association of Evangelicals, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the United Church of Christ all met with Obama last week to present their unified message:

The reason it's unprecedented is because "we don't agree on much else," said John Carr of the Catholic Campaign for Human Development.

The coalition focuses on those Jesus called "the least of these" (Matthew 25:45), which speaks to obligations to look to the less fortunate. One goal it to get lawmakers to consider, "what would Jesus cut?" (Actually, to ask the question is probably to answer it.) [...]

"Poor people don't have an office on K Street," said Galen Carey of the National Association of Evangelicals. "They don't have lobbyists, so their voice is muted. That's why it's important for people of faith to step into the void." The association is headed by Leith Anderson, former pastor to Tim Pawlenty, the former Minnesota governor and current Republican presidential candidate.

The coalition is called the "Circle of Protection," and they have been working hard on the debt ceiling issue, holding prayer vigils on the Hill and fasts. When the group met with Obama, they encouraged him to protect Medicaid, food stamps, aid to poor women with infant children, international development aid, and other programs specifically targeted to the poor. Coalition officials have also met with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and top aides to House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI).

Jim Wallis, president of Sojourners, a Christian social justice group, points out, "A budget is a moral document." His group's website poses the question, "What would Jesus cut?" Wallis says that in debt ceiling negotiations, politicians will be faced with choices like whether to cut $8.5 billion for low-income housing or whether to save that money by ending tax deductions for mortgages on vacation homes for the wealthy.

Wallis' group is launching an advertising campaign in the home districts of political leaders, aimed at encouraging them to shield the poor from draconian spending cuts. Another coalition member, David Beckmann, president of Bread for the World, said they are reviewing the plan put forward by Speaker Boehner. "I don't think they want to make kids hungrier," he said. "But if you have deep, unspecified cuts in spending, they will make kids hungrier."

______________________________

HuffingtonPost: Rev. Al Sharpton:

Greatest Racial Wealth Gap in Decades; Time for Immediate Action

Consistently on the forefront of social justice and civil rights issues, we at National Action Network can think of no greater time than the present to convene and address many of these challenges at our annual march in Washington, D.C. on August 27th. Paying homage to the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., we will gather, rally and march for jobs, education, non-violence, equality across the board and our collective future. From the emancipator (Abraham Lincoln) to the liberator (Dr. King), we recognize our advancement, but as this Pew study so distinctly highlights, we have much work that remains before us.
_______________________

Is anybody listening to what's going on in this country?

Raise my taxes President Obama. Just raise them. I don't care. Raise everybody's taxes who make $75,000+. These cuts are reprehensible. I see people spending a fortune every day at lunch. I see people spending a fortune for Red Sox and Patriots tickets. The bars and restaurants are full.

Nothing wrong with people having a good time, but they surely can pay a little more to help out those who need it most.

Has anybody asked Romney what he would do? He hides until the crisis is over. That's his MO.

It will be interesting, if or when Rick Perry enters the race, most likely after his 'Tent Revival' gathering, to watch a battle of The 'Titans', saying you know, mine is bigger than yours. Neither one of them have what it takes to be a statesman.

Why thanks Pat, cause I sure could not have gone to Think Progress on my own. Libbies - always think they know better - even in Pat's case than our hosts here at First Read.

But say Pat why is it that Obama disagrees with you so much? He just signed in tax cuts just 6 months ago. You forget already?

But your wealth envy is showing Pat. Pay a little more to the gov, spend a little less at the ball game and restaurants, then those business need a few less workers.

Hey Pat, you really got this economic thing down, um, Pat. Nice work. See all the politicians want to cut taxes - even your boy Reid's plan has no new taxes. That must suck for you, no? Sure it does, but wrong is wrong, and Pat you are wrong. Whereas me and Obama are right. WHo would have thought, right?

Pat in Huntington - great arguments for Perry.

Obama on debt ceiling [Bluffing] + Obamacare [job killing] = Bluffy the job slayer. An oldie but a goodie.

Spanky, go back to playing with your little rascals. Perry has the luck of the oil...that is, Texas is an oil producing state which is a recession proof job generating industry. That said, Perry would clearly be beholden then to the oil companies, and its my opinion that is not a good thing...not to mention, he's a religious zealot and anti-gay rights...three major strikes against him.

Oh great. That's what we need in another haft-wit redneck cowboy from Texas running for President. Didn't we try that once before. W.

All those Texas jobs are from oil? Huh.

But see even the big brain libbies here in Cali are lamenting that every week we lose 4 business. Many go to Texas, and they ain't in the oil business, so what else do you [I mean Think Progress] have?

Me I like oil. Unlike the gov, they can actually run efficiently and not lose money every day.

Hey you know where Darla and Buckwheat are? [ps wrong kind of Spanky. :)].

Have you read the job numbers I posted at First Thoughts, Spanky? Seems the outlook in California isn't nearly as bad as you paint it. Seems California is actually #2 in job creation, and has been for the past year.

How on earth did that happen, Spanky?

Now go have a looky at the article I posted above about the at-risk states if the US defaults.

Funny thing -- California isn't one of them. But South Carolina is.

See ya.

Wow Pat, Boston! You win the prize for possibly the DUMBEST post I've seen this week. Congratulations! That was even dumber than blaming Michele Bachman for people killing themselves. Ehhhh. I dunno. That one may have been the dumber of the two but that was from Feisty Redhead so it almost doesn't really count.

Kinda funny AM - I touted the jobs numbers in Wisconsin the other day and you poo-pooed them

So how exactly shall I react now that you hold the shoe [or is it foot]?

If Cali is not at risk that is ridiculous. Or should I say YAY! Go Cali?

You have to help me, given our recent discussion, k?

Read the articles, Spanky. The Wisconsin numbers are bogus, too, as it turns out.

This has nothing to do with shoes. And you don't need my help.

As we used to say when I was growing up, if the shoe fits, turn the other cheek.

Thanks to you and others out here, I finally figured out what that meant.

Just read the articles, k?

Ball's in your court, Spanky. It always has been.

You like it that way, remember?

I'm lingerie.

Anna Molly,

As a separate voice from California, the jobs market here blows. With so few new jobs in the country, it doesn't really matter what position we are in overall, we still can't reduce unemployment in the state. I'm going to have to respectfully differ with your opinion on the overall outlook as well. Five'll getcha ten that we'll be back in the Legislature before the end of our fiscal year (6/30) with a great big new hole in our budget, and no effective plan to deal with the shortfall.

Well, if that's true, and I'll take your word for it, then imagine what it's like here, where we don't have nearly the job creation climate that the numbers suggest California has. Imagine what it's like in the red states that are losing jobs hand over fist, like Kansas and Tennessee.

For additional color, you might want to look at the article I posted at First Thoughts and then study up on the job numbers. No one should believe that Texas is doing as well as it claims to be when you can look at your own experience in California, where the real numbers aren't that far off those from Texas, and see that it just ain't so.

That's what we in Wisconsin see as well.

Anna Molly,

I don't think it actually matters what State you're in, when the job creation base is as low as it is currently, even being number one isn't a great place to be. Although, relatively speaking, it's better than any of the other 49 options. Personally, at this point, I don't care whether you're in a red, blue, purple or any other color state, when the unemployment number is roughly 12% (California), those of us with jobs are grateful, and those without probably have more of a "deer in the headlights" look than anyone desires.

Where is the media asking them what they would do if they were President?

Good question Nash!

Maybe they can round up Gotcha Gregory to toss a couple of his famous wiffle-balls at these clowns...

Um, Nash Bachmann has said many times she would not raise it, and will vote against it.

That clear enough for you?

But I love how it's just the people that want to be president have to offer solutions. But not the actual president, right Nash? He gets a pass?

Too funny, even for you.

Spanky:

This just in: saying "no" is not a solution. In terms of your obsession with President Obama, that seems like a personal problem.

President Obama is a man among boys (and girls).

So then Nash why does that man find himself at the kiddie table of ceiling negotiations right now?

My obsession is the economy. See unlike you who has the luxury of sitting back and collecting a paycheck I have to go out and get work so I can keep my people employed.

And that man of yours is making it much, much harder. As are the fine Cali dems.

So again Nash - you call for solutions from presidential candidates, so where is the actual president's?

Nash - Bachmann is part of the House. It passed a bill. You might not like that bill, but it is certainly a plan.

Do you even listen to yourself? Cause saying no to a raise is definitely a solution. Again, one you no like-y, but I recall that being tuff tomatoes when it came to Obamacare, remember? I bet you do.

Spanky:

I work for a living, so I don't know wtf you are talking about with the "collect a paycheck" bs. Thanks for reminding me to put you on ignore.

Carry on.

I love how all the tighty righties here say the president has no plan. In his address to the nation did he not outline what his plan included? Oh that's right, people like Spanky decided not to listen to the president. It is convenient for them to not listen and then give their opinion like they own the conversation.

Wake up Spanky. While you are on here on FR, who is "man"ing the helm over there?

So you missed our own Chuck Todd at yesterday's presser Bryan? Carney, Obama's spokeshole admitted he had no plan, nothing on paper, nothing he could give out of cite to.

It's like the CBO said - they cannot score speeches. Now why do you think that is Bryan?

Aw, Nash why so sensitive? You get a paycheck and are what is known as a W-2 employees - all wages and income come from one employer via a W-2. NOt a slight, just a fact. See you never have to worry about making payroll - ensuring that everybody else gets paid. You are lucky in that regard.

But yeah, given your arguments it would probably be best for you to ignore. Cause that is always the answer - just ignore things you don't like. Yep, I just know that kind of planning will work out, for someone like you. And Feisty, but I know she is lyuing about the ignore thing.

She loves her too much Spanky to ever really ignore.

Carrying on sir. :)

The President does not "write" legislation, that's up to Congress.

So true Bryan. All these righties have to do is a little homework and they can read the Presidents many budget plans. They would rather listen to the Republican -Tea Baggers in office who tell them that the President has no plan.

They just don't think for themselves. Oh well, stupid is as stupid does.

Let's see, blog all day, work at night, hustle to get work for your employees...I get it, Spanky, you're a pimp!

Spanky:

That is "Madame Nash" to you. (Wonder why that ignore hasn't kicked in yet.)

Wonder what happened to all those jobs the Republicans were going to create? That is all you heard from them before the mid-terms, maybe they forgot to mention all those jobs were going to be overseas because after all that is where Republicans and their corporate masters create jobs isn't it. My mistake.

Spanky--if all your employees are like your description, I wonder about the culture you have created. Here in my office, all the employees care about the strength of our business because we all want it to grow. That way we can all have economic success. We don't have people who say "I have my paycheck, now I don't have to care." If you do, maybe all your employees are Republicans.

Hey Spanky --- what's going on over there in Calyfornia? I heard Governor Jerry got his Dream Act passed. What's with the electorate out there? Brown damn near killed off the state 20 years ago now they vote him back in to finish the job?

Spanky you know those FR regulars never put you on ignore, they just don't know how to respond. They probably IM each other every time you challenge them to commiserate.

You're right, ksw. And that idiot Job1 would too if he knew how. He needs to get off the internet and go back to shining shoes.

Spanky you know those FR regulars never put you on ignore, they just don't know how to respond.

Now that's funny!

Obviously, you make it a habit of responding to idiots...

Me?

If you don't mind, I'll take a pass - if you've read one of his antagonizing comments, you've read them all!

Do enjoy - he's right up your alley! ;o)

He would help his chop shop buddies.

He has no buddies only masters. he is paid well by them.

So True.

You obviously don't know much about Romney. Did you know that while running Bain Capital, the daughter of one of their employees went missing in New York. Romney shut the entire company down and sent everyone to NY for 3 days to find her. Which they did, and saved her life.

While campaigning in California he was late to a campaign event because he stopped to help a guy dig a big tree root out of his yard afther the massive CA. fires that year.

Dispite all his success, he has always told his wife Ann that she is the most important thing in his life and that no success in business could ever compinsate for a failure in the home.

Mitt has his priorities straight. He is an exceptional person and we would be lucky to have him as president. Go Mitt!

ask mr hope and change.

Rob

why not the Repubs - just last november you "promised jobs now"!

last december you repubs promised if Bush tax cuts were continued "there would be jobs now"!

you won the "big tsunami" on Obamas failed jobs - aren't you going to take ownership for that victory and "honor your promises?

b dune - as you libs like to tout so freely about your man child "he's only had 2 1/2 years to fix the mess" the Repubs "Have only been in power for 7 months".

RON PAUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!