E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSFrom msnbc.com's Tom Curry:
Here are some of the “known unknowns” in the competing deficit reduction plan being offered by House Speaker John Boehner, set for a vote in that chamber tomorrow.
On Monday night President Barack Obama endorsed the competing proposal by Senate Majority Leader Harry and on Tuesday he had the White House issue a “Statement of Administration Policy” Tuesday indicating he would veto the Boehner plan if Congress passes it.
How many House Republicans will vote for Boehner’s proposal? And how many Democrats will vote for it?
It’s too soon for a vote tally, but some GOP fiscal conservatives are opposing it.
“I am confident as of this morning that there are not 218 Republicans in support of the plan,” said Rep. Jim Jordan, R- Ohio, the head the Republican Study Committee, a caucus of 175 GOP House conservatives, on Tuesday.
A prominent House GOP freshman, Rep. Joe Walsh of Illinois, said on MSNBC Tuesday he’d vote against Boehner’s plan.
But less TV-friendly GOP members have yet to be heard from, and many may not be until the roll call vote.
There are 240 Republicans in the House; with two vacancies, Boehner would need 217 votes to pass his bill. He and the GOP whip team will be working to persuade members that the plan is the only way for Republicans to get significant spending cuts signed into law, or at least the best vehicle to strengthen their hand in any eleventh-hour bargaining with Obama.
As for Democrats, there might be a handful from Republican-leaning districts who’ll end up voting for the plan, but they’re likely to lie low until the vote.
Which outside groups and power brokers have announced opposition to the Boehner proposal and which have come out for it?
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the powerful business lobbying group which helped Republicans win their House majority in 2010, issued a statement Tuesday urging House members to vote for Boehner’s plan. “This legislation is critical. Default on debt obligations is not an acceptable option. The time for Congress to act is now,” the chamber’s chief political strategist Bruce Josten wrote to House members.
Anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform also gave his backing to the plan.
Against the plan are the fiscally hawkish Club for Growth, which helped elect several GOP House members and senators in 2010 – which said Boehner’s plan “cuts almost nothing immediately” and “caps only discretionary spending.”
In the Senate, Lindsey Graham, R- S.C., said he opposed the Boehner plan because it would cut too little. “If the Boehner plan worked perfectly, it would only reduce spending by $3 trillion,” he said. “During that same timeframe the United States will add at least another $6-7 trillion in new debt.”
Also opposed are liberal-leaning groups such as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which said Boehner’s plan would require “draconian” cuts in spending on programs for low-income people and those over age 65.
How would the Boehner plan enforce its $1.2 trillion in proposed cuts to discretionary (non-entitlement) spending?
It would enforce the spending limit through what’s called “sequestration,” automatic across-the-board reductions. The mechanism would be similar to that used, with some success, in the 1985 Gramm-Rudman-Hollings law.
Under the Boehner plan, what’s the job of the new ‘super committee’ on cutting other spending, such as on entitlement programs such as Medicare? And who’ll pick its members?
Boehner’s bill says the new Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction would have the goal of reducing deficits by $1.8 trillion between 2012 and 2021 (on top of the $1.2 trillion in cuts to discretionary spending).
The committee would be comprised of 12 members appointed by the majority and minority leaders of the Senate, and the Speaker and minority leader of the House, with each appointing three members. The committee would be required to report a plan by Nov. 23, 2011 so that Congress would vote on it by Dec. 23, 2011. The plan would be debated and voted on under special expedited rules.
How will the super-committee’s jurisdiction overlap with that of the committees – such as the Senate Finance Committee – which have authority over programs such as Social Security and Medicare?
From the text of the bill and the GOP leadership’s explanation of it, that’s not clear.
The bill says the new committee’s job would be “to provide recommendations and legislative language,” but it seems that the existing committees, such as the Senate Finance Committee would still retain the power to decide exactly how to reduce spending and to attempt to reach the $1.8 trillion target for cuts in mandatory spending.
Boehner is setting goals, not telling the Congress how to reach those goals.
Leave a Comment:
This creep is another lose canon tea bagger!
The guy won his district by only 291 votes!
Calling the president a liar and insisting he was only elected because he's black is not sitting well with his constituents!
Will someone give him the HOOK?
Who says these tea baggers are paying attention to the people who voted them in?
Holy Hell Batman!
Tapper and Chucky Todd went clean after Carney at today's presser.
Why yes, Carney we do need it written down.
Come on, who didn't love Carney's line when asked to see the actual Obama Plan? "A republican talking point." Really? That Obama has no plan, a fact, is a talking point.
Just how far out of touch are these guys?
Oh no, Obama's taking it hard from the press.
I think there is a good shot there will be no deal, that the House freshman will stick to their guns.
In fact Obama has already started calling banks to tell them there will be no default.
So another Obama theory down. So what happens gang - if not default after all this theater from Obama. Whatever credibility he had will be shot.
Except for Feisty and Ron and Navy. They will always love him. No matter what.
Boehner's plan is to form a Committee, just what we need in the House, another Committee.
The only thing I want to know is...
If it somehow arrives on the President's desk...
Will he sign it?
Bet he will.
Spank-
Chuckie T's really growing into that White House correspondent job, isn't he?
Might be time to bounce that interloper, David Gregory, out of the "Meet The Press" gig, and give the job to a real journalist!
Todd is far closer to Russert than Gregory will ever be.
Oh, pish. Don't hold your breath.
You know it will NEVER get there.
lol, AM.
YOU know...
I wouldn't be at all surprised.
Anyway, AM...
If I'm correct...
Which way will Mr. Toad jump?
Mixed - at this point Obama has to sign anything that get to him. He's the idiot that has been saying for all this time that collapse is imminent. No more voting present. THis here is go time. I just don't think he has the stones.
There is a reason he has no plan. After his budget got laughed at he remembered why he is so much better at leading from behind.
Again my hope is there is nothing and that the freshmen hold the line. They are not true politicians, which is why Pelosi and Obama fear them so much. THey, like me run businesses and know what it's like to have to make payroll. No sane person would ever condone $.42 borrowed, much less $4 billion per day.
I don't hate Gregory, and was too busy making money to ever eatch Russert. But I do like Chuck. I also like Savannah Guthrie from his show, in a not quite ready for Fox quality, mildly pushy female lawyer kinda way.
As Cantor said, there are three choices: 1) agree to Reid's bill, 2) submit their own bill and risk a veto, or 3) allow the nation to default.
Since Reid's bill provides larger tax cuts with no revenue, if the GOP/TP opts for their own bill, it will be obvious to all Americans it is being done to force a temporary debt ceiling and ongoing uncertainty and damage to our credit rating. It's a no-brainer now. Republicans can get the cuts they claimed they want -- But they can't get the cuts PLUS cover for Medicare, nor can they cause uncertainty to the markets toward a sluggish economy in 2012, nor divisive obstructionism preventing progress on job creation, economic recovery, and balancing the budget.
Congressional servers and phone lines crashed because of all the American people who want compromise and a balanced approach. The GOP/TP may win a battle but they lose the war. Let the recalls, strike downs, and contributions to GOP/TP campaigns continue to show the distaste for Republican anti-Americanism. Obama/Biden - 2012!
Any which way he can.
We knew who Obama was when he showed up. A guy that looked great, gave terrific speeches, and talked about a lot of the soft stuff like "Hope and Change" and "Yes We Can!" Anyone that didn't just swoon with emotion over this guy started asking questions though like "Isn't this guy a little out of his depth? Two years in the US Senate after voting "Present" in the Illinois legislator isn't much of a resume". But the Obama supporters, and of course the media, got all wrapped up in the historic nature of Obama's run for President, so they weren't exactly in any mood to point out his shortcomings.
2.5+ years into this thing called the Obama Presidency, we see the shortcomings. Obama not having an actual plan while he brow-beats others for one is, shall we say, interesting to watch. The media still loves him, but their eyes are beginning to narrow a bit when they speak of the man. And Obama's wall shaking speeches have all but disappeared. No one talks of the strength, the insight, and the loftiness of those things anymore. Besides, he gives a speech everyday, it's like watching the weather.
Enough is enough. Even for the Main Stream Media.
Hey True Patriot, even you know the Reid cuts are fake, right?
Saving from reduced wars efforts in 2 years.
I don't suppose you can find any real tax cuts can you True Patriot?
Obama has no choice but to sign it. There is no time to reload and do it again. Any bill will pass by a vote or two in both the House and the Senate. Can't expect an Obama veto to kick it all back to Congress and have them go through the process again. 1) It will take days/weeks and 2) Some of the Congresscritters will now demand the deal be sweetened for their benefit - recall that this is Washington DC.
Obama has successfully filibustered himself out of the process. He has no plan, wasted weeks of time trying to figure out what his plan was, performed the populist/campaign style speeches telling everyone what a great guy he was and how badly Boehner sucked. He wasted all that time, and finally Boehner realized Obama wasn't negotiating, but was campaigning instead.
So what ever gets to Obama's desk, he will sign it. Then he can come out and make yet another boring speech about how he's right and Boehner sucks. Same-old. Same-old.
I got a "underpayment of tax’ notice from the IRS for $413. I sent them a hammer just like the one DOD payed $435 for, and a note, "I realize this hammer represents an overpayment of my taxes by $22, and would like you to send this overpayment to the Presidential election fund. Or, perhaps just send a phillips screwdriver.
Spanky, I ignore punks who just talk trash. If you can't find anything meaningful to post, please go back to the second grade from whence you came.
Fiesty, further to Joe Walsh, I posted this earlier:
Chis Matthews counted the number of times Walsh said Chris' name, and made a hilarious video out of it. Seriously, does Walsh know we are all snickering behind his back? And Blackburn thinks she is getting her 15 minutes of fame the way Bachmann use to do. This is the only way they can become rising stars in the Republican Party--to make fools of themselves.
Yeah, that Chris Matthews is a funny guy. He has some kind of show on tv about politics or cooking or something, correct?
Thanks for sharing that True Patriot!
The tea baggers are desperately seeking to out crazy each other!
Moderates & Indy's don't appreciate the histrionics...
PS:
Now you're catching on... best thing you can do with Skanky is implement the 'ignore author' feature.
Makes FR much more pleasurable! ;o)
Here's a great chart showing how the distribution of income in America has changed since 1979:
% Change Per Person Since 1979
And lots more interesting charts from Business Insider:
15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America
And tax rates haven't nearly kept pace:
Associated Press
April 17, 2011
Fix it, and then we'll talk about how much we need to take from the bottom 50%.
Don't forget even in the House, Democrat votes are needed. Does anyone think the Dems will pass the GOP/TP short-term plan that will cause continued uncertainty, damage to our credit rating, and ongoing devisive fighting, or will they opt for a bill from the Senate leader of their own Party that does none of those things? Even BlueDogs won't side with Republicans on this one for gawd sake.
Also, I don't think President Obama said he'd veto a short-term plan and not mean it. First off, he said this far in advance, and when Cantor kept talking about a short-term plan, the president became annoyed and told Cantor don't call my bluff, I'll take it to the American people. It made him angry, which was clear to see in the press conference. Since Reid/Dems have presented a plan with no revenue, if the president vetoes the GOP/TP short-term bill, I and most Americans will stand behind him in that veto (including businesses, Wall Street, and the Chamber of Commerce).
In the meantime, remember the elections in NY, California, and Wisconsin -- And so far the recalls are not favoring Republicans, and many of their right-wing social engineering legislation is being rejected or struck down. Most of all, the GOP/TP presidential candidates are lagging in campaign contributions. As posted above, the Republicans may win a battle but they will lose the war.
The Boehner plan. Garbage.
Anyone who believes Boehner's bill will even make it out of the house needs to have their head examined... l
When I was a kid, I had one of those pet rocks & now that I think about it, it was more intelligent then today's tea baggers! lol
What do you expect? Look who wrote it? lmao!
Time to fire up the garbage disposal...
Yeah, that's what I figured True Patriot - you can't walk your talk.
Typical libbie, any time the talk gets even remotely specific on taxes, it's straight on personal insults. You should listen to Feisty, there is no better example of the big thnking left. At least she knows it and doesn't even try to respond.
Reid's plan ahs fake tax cuts. You admit that with your response. Unless...don't suppose you'd like to break the Boehner/Reid differences down for us? Naaa, I know too "second grade. :)
How about this little ditty for all:
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled,
public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be
tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should
be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to
work, instead of living on public assistance."
- Cicero - 55 BC
Great post Real American First!
Do you by chance have a link to that?
I would LOVE to read more...
Spanky, I think the Treasury of Rome was rrefilled by pillage, and tax collectors throughout the empire.
Think the tea party folks are up to that task?
I don't think it's the conservatives that are living off the tit, do you Northstar?
Again, the top 1% of individuals in American earn 22% of the income, but pay 39.9% of the taxes.
So yeah, WE are the ones out there eating what we kill.
The old Roman nailed it - public assistance is not the way.
Although..Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the blackflag and begin to slit throats...[Mencken (?)] so sure, let the pillaging begin.
;)
This is outrageous. Not enough cuts the GOP says? Cuts?
Where are the tax increases for the bastards who caused this destruction? No where.
Welcome to the White Supremacy Party.
This would never have happened if Nancy Pelosi were still Speaker. Never in a million years.
Selfish bastards the Republican Party. And their supporters.
Selfish bastards.
President Obama, raise my taxes. We cannot be having these cuts during this recession. We need revenue. From the wealthy.
Are you going to just let them off the hook?
Do not pass this bill Senate. Do not sign this bill Mr. President.
Do.not.sign.this.bill.
We have a bunch of white millionaires sticking it to the middle and working classes. And the poor.
And their supporters say nothing. What cowards they are. They could give a *%#* about anyone.
Sick people.
Pat - You are far too kind my friend - these people & their supporters are treasonous bastards! PERIOD!
Like I said the other day, COUNTRY FIRST - MY A@@!
Sooooooooooooo Senator Reid said this will not pass the Senate.
Thank you Senator Reid.
Cantor & Boehner - you two are despicable. You represent no one but your rich white friends.
And everyone knows it. Lucky for you, your supporters (our fellow Americans) don't care.
Sad.
The "old Roman" was a true statesman. But even he knew that you had to give the people bread. Later they added the circus!
Nothing is so well fortified that money cannot capture it. -Cicero:)
Feisty, Howard Fineman just reported that nothing is going to pass - neither Boehner nor Reid's bill and we'll get the debt ceiling passed.
DC has gone down hill big time since Boehner took over.
All white. All rich. All classless. All thieves.
I hear you Pat! Nothing more than a bunch of gypsies -tramps thieves!
Heaven forbid the party of pale, male & stale does ANYTHING to help this country!
The games continue while America suffers - I've NEVER seen anything like it! *shakes head*
Spanky- said:
At least she knows it and doesn't even try to respond.
You aren't dumb enough to not realize there is an ignore option, and since you seem to post nothing but low brow rhetoric, you are probably on many ignore lists, right? LOL, I bet you assume all the time people ignore you because you're so smart they can't handle you, when in reality you are merely so stupid you can't even figure out how a simple forum works. Pathetic, but typical ignorance from people of your ilk.
It doesn't matter how many times you hit him upside his head with the 'sack'...
They WILL NEVER learn...
I see many people blaming this mess on the tea party. Wake up. Republicans AND Democrats share the responsibility for this, along with the American people.
And you know what Feisty? The GOP voters will never ever change. They just sit back and say nothing, still. Just like they did in the lead up to the Iraq invasion. Whatever they're told, they follow. Ronald Reagan told them they could have it all - and it's what they want. Screw everybody else.
President Obama's supporters screamed bloody murder at what was happening. He expected it. He welcomed it. But the Republican Party supporters? Nothing. Crickets. They didn't care who got hurt. They never said a word.
The only thing that matters to them is a Democrat out of the White House next year. And they're willing to sell their fellow Americans down the river in order to do it. Sell their souls. Yet again.
They will never ever change. And people are wondering why minorities support President Obama.
Where is the jobs bill Boehner?
As Nancy Pelosi said - The Democrats do the compromising while the rich get richer.
At anyone's expense. Poor. Working Class. Middle Class. Seniors. Disabled. Students. Doesn't matter.
That's the GOP. The White Supremacy Party.
They couldn't get away with it if their supporters spoke up. But they won't.
They never do. Cowards.
So our Medicare and Social Security are entitlement programs, well then lets not forget the entitlement programs in place for retiring politicians. Lets pay way more attn to how much lobbyest groups give them and subtract from that what we give them. Lets pay more attn to who they are vacationing with or on. I think we need to stop penalizing lower wage earners because they did not get the entitlement programs that some got to get them where they are now. If you really are God fearing conservitive republicans then pick up your bibles and read them. The answer to the way you should act is very clear. We are watching you and so is God.
NO truer words have ever been spoke Pat!
These cowaredly bastards - hide behind their keyboards...
Keep UP THE FIGHT MY friend - truth will ALWAYS win out...l ;o)
They can spew all the BS in the world - but it ain't gonna make it TRUE!
So cute the little libbies slappin' each other on the back while the fool in the white house flushes the nation down the drain with one lie after another.
I sat through is speech and counted 28 verifiable lies. 28. Not opinions, but flat out lies.
Things like his plan (which actually doesn't exist) to cut and tax would reduce the debt. $3 or $4 trillion in future spending cuts (the cuts by the way area always on proposed new dollars, not existing spending). Well I guess Obama failed basic math, as they projections over the next 10 years are $12-16 trillion, so cutting $3-4 trillion doesn't even take on the majority of their future overspending.
These idiots do math like a 16 year old idiot. I remember when my kids were teenagers, and their math was almost like the President's and the libbies.
Well sorry kids, but grown ups can do the math, and we realize that both parties are full of crap with their stupid $3-$4 trillion over ten years BS (just look at the lies liberals told under Reagan and the mess the Pelosi House made of Bush's last 2 years).
It is fun to read all of these cute little empty headed liberals though, it reminds me of my idiotic youth.
The republicans are so busy making sure the poor don't get an egg, while the rich carry off the entire chicken coop.
As far as I'm concerned, Obama doesn't need to present a plan. It's the job of congress to provide a bill that will be approved by the president. Obama has already said what he wants to see in the plan. His only job is to sign something he approves of. If he doesnt approve, he doesn't sign. That's his job. All of these Republicans seem to feel that he is only as powerful as the least powerful member of congress. That is not the case. So, they better get over themselves soon and realize who's in charge.
As far as I'm concerned, Obama doesn't need to present a plan. It's the job of congress to provide a bill that will be approved by the president
GoodLookinfella - it is about time that someone explained to the rest of the responders how a bill gets through capitol hill. All spending plans are started in the House of Representatives. It is THEIR job to get something going. they ask 'where is President Obama's jobs plan?' He can't tell anyone in Congress what to do. 'Where is President Obama's balanced budget plan?' He can't propose one. the President can only agreee or disagree with what is sent to him (or her). so Tea Party, Republican House leadership, conservative TV pundits, etc. Pressure YOUR house majority to come up with something.
That may not be his job, but how about the Dems in the congress? Where's their plan? Nowhere to be seen...
This guy Boehner is a "cry-baby" piece of crap!!!
And he has just doomed the republicans to getting their collective asses kicked AGAIN in the next election.
And that is sad, because we desperately need a viable replacement for Obama.
Nice going Boehner! You cheap scape moron!
14 Trillion in debt but "No tax break reversal for the rich". How ignorant can you get???!!!
Oh, for godssake, the republicans can't even agree on their OWN plan, and the teabaggers want to bring the government to default anyway. I know republicans (at least the ones with a brain) know they will be the ones bringing the economy down, and the blame will go to the ones intent on destruction. The teapubs are treasonous idiots who care more about a pledge to Grover Norquist than what is best for the country.
Nice deflection, lib50. The republicans may not agree on their plans, but at least they have the fortitude to put them out there. No budget or debt reduction plan from the democrats. Only complaints and grandstanding. That's real leadership right there...
Why don't you tell me the republican plan, because last time I checked they went back to the drawing board. How about Harry Reid's plan?
I know, that is all the teapubs have done in this process. Since republicans can't even agree on a plan, and they control the house, what is everybody supposed to do? They don't even support plans they supported a week ago.
How about "Cut, cap and balance" which, as far as I know, is the only bill that has been passed by either house of congress. That passed the house with bipartisan support and was tabled in the senate by Harry. Why dosen't Harry let that come up for a vote? Where's Harry's plan in the legislative process?
Defund, dismantle and destroy can't pass the Senate, and it isn't bipartisan, just 5 of the usual dems voted for it. It is DOA. Why don't republicans in the house take the plan Harry Reid put forward?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/no-the-reid-and-boehner-plans-are-not-the-same-reids-is-better/2011/03/28/gIQAeiRQdI_blog.html
Try compromise, it is the ONLY way to make this work, and so far republicans refuse to do it.
You mean the plan which takes credit for revenue realized when the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan wind down? That's so disingeuous it's laughable. How about real spending cuts?
You realize the only way this congress can guarantee cuts is to do them this year, right? They cannot make future congresses do anything, so any future cuts are pie-in-the-sky and not to be believed.
The republicans are the only ones talking about real legislation that addresses the fundamental budget issues - social programs. All other items take a backseat to the real deficit drivers. Democrats need to step up and talk about real cuts that mean something - not take credit for spending that's going away regardless of this debate. I'll take them seriously when they start being serious.
No matter whose plan wins, it’s going to make economic recovery harder. It doesn’t matter whether the government cuts medicare or government jobs, either way it’s more American workers and retirees with less money, which means less spending, which means fewer American goods and services sold, which means fewer jobs to create those goods and services.
Consumer spending is the real “Job Creator”. Raising taxes on the wealthy wouldn’t kill that many jobs, because, right now, the wealthy are putting their tax savings into gold, oil futures, derivatives, short selling of stocks, and high-end real estate transactions, because anything is a better investment than creating jobs that create products and services that don’t sell – that would be a total waste of investment.
Had we just repealed the Bush Tax cuts last year (including the dividends tax), we wouldn’t be having this debt crisis now or in the future, and it couldn’t have possibly killed more jobs than the cuts we’re about to make.
Pretty much spot on K. Scott.
Fortune 500 companies are sitting on record cash but are not hiring blaming consumer demand. We'll hire some folks or pump that money into your employees and watch the economy grow. We have it so backwards, Taxes = Red Herring
Very True about now...not so much about the future. The Bush tax cuts, which I now call the Obama Tax cuts, run around $400B a year. So that's about 200B right now with the dividend and July say $240B. We are running a deficit of around 4B a day so you are right we would have lasted around another 75 days before we ran out of money.
Come on Alan, talking actual tax rates and supplying actual hard figures is not fair when talking to a libbie.
It's secondgrade-ish and rude.
Besides he meant Other People's taxes=red herring. His is a whole different story.
Since republicans held the country hostage to KEEP those BUSH tax cuts, don't try to pretend everybody (including Obama) wanted them extended. We wanted them gone but republicans forced us to keep them. You must think everybody believes your lying spin, we remember why they are still around, screwing the country. Keep the corporate masters and rich elite happy at all costs, right teapubs?
This is nothing but political theater, the Boehner and Reid plan's are nothing but a band aid the debt will still grow at a unsustainable rate. Both party's are absolutely irresponsible in their policy recommendations and rhetoric. When tough decisions are necessary we can count on our leaders to put their fingers in the wind and thei heads in the sand or back in their butt.
It's a mess...
Jim Jordan: Boehner plan won’t pass House on Republican support alone
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/jim-jordan-boehner-plan-wont-pass-house-on-republican-support-alone/2011/07/26/gIQAZqY1aI_blog.html
Harry Reid's debt ceiling plan faces tough odds
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59857.html#ixzz1TFVVpRcn
Boehner, Cantor Implore Republicans to Support Debt Plan, but Face Opposition
http://nationaljournal.com/congress/boehner-cantor-implore-republicans-to-support-debt-plan-but-face-opposition-20110726
Fantastic. Looks like the whole lot better start getting used to getting by with spending 40% less.
They are all smart, bright people. They can do it.
Unless the CBC and Pelosi's crew is ging to step in and "save the day?" Now wouldn't that be something?
Evidently when push comes to shove, ideology trumps pragmatism every time...:(
And aren't you against raising the debt ceiling too?
What is the rationale for that?
I'm definitely against raising the debt ceiling. I've been against it all along. The government is wasteful, tosses money at every problem whether it fixes it or not... most times it doesn't fix it. We have way too many overlapping government departments where different people do the same job 3-4 times. Our government gives away billions and billions to foreign governments as aide and to buy them off. Those days need to come to an end. We need to pull our military back to protect our shores and borders... get the hell out of places we don't need to be. How many years since WWII ended and we still have military bases spread all over Europe? You know those bases cost billions to operate.
When times are tight, cutting resources and spending is the order of the day. If we need to generate revenue, do it in a way that doesn't hurt the working people... and yes, the rich do work too. In small quantities and provisional ways, increase industrial and corporate taxes. Not so heavy that they will take people out of the equation and cause them to lose jobs.
ABOVE ALL, get rid of lobbiests! Outlaw them. Stop the enrichment of our elected government officials through special interests... yes, on both sides of the aisle. We all know it happens but nobody will do anything about them. In Washington, lobbiests are the sacred money cow. How many congressmen and senators leave office with many more millions in their pockets than when they went in? I'd love to know the answer to that billion dollar question.
Sounds like republicans no longer want to invest in Americas future. Take a vacation to Somalia to get a gander at where your corporate pandering policies will take us. All hail Grover Norquist and the corporate elite, right? Republicans don't believe in America, they believe in greed over everything.
Republicans just want their rich friends to get richer and to hell with the country. They should be tossed on their "better than thou" asses, every one of them.
Odipstick sign the phucking thing already... not to worry you ain't going to win in Nov 2012 anyway...
Don't believe everything you hear on faux.
You listen to censored news and think you have all the answers. Good luck with that.
Or Firedoglake, eh American First?
Hey, has Bernie "we need to primary Obama" gotten a hosting gig on Fox? Cool, I bet the pay beats anything on CNN.
But I feel you American First - and so too does Carney, cause to want to see a plan from Obama is a republican talking point.
Dude he screwed the pooch on that one for you all, didn't he?
Obama -
Understand – raising the debt ceiling does not allow Congress to spend more money.
It simply gives our country the ability to pay the bills that Congress has already racked up. In the past, raising the debt ceiling was routine. Since the 1950s, Congress has always passed it, and every President has signed it. President Reagan did it 18 times. George W. Bush did it 7 times. And we have to do it by next Tuesday, August 2nd, or else we won’t be able to pay all of our bills.
He says “Congress” has racked up these bills as if he is totally blameless. Like, he didn’t sign any of them, they just slipped on through. He didn’t push anything through or orchestrate like the Wizard behind the curtain. But, we’re too stupid to catch that.
And all that business about former presidents raising the debt ceiling? Is he aware that he’s racked up more debt during his administration than all previous administrations put together? That sort of matters in this argument, I think.
I have only had my computer and Internet for a few months. Is firedoglake something I would be interested in? I don't have television any longer after watching how faux manipulated the news in the run up to the Iraq war. Lied by censoring news. For me no more money for fearvision.
I mentioned censored news and you instantly connect to republican talking points.
Obama's plan for what. This is just a debt ceiling raise just like the 7 times it was done for bush. I don't remember any demands made on him to sign the new debt ceiling.
As a matter of fact other than when Reagan was spending us into oblivion, no one has even brought it up. Then he told them to do it and they did.
No other president in the history of the United States has been put through this kind of BS just to get the debt ceiling raised. It is getting harder and harder to believe all this animosity is for his policies.
Larry
I might go you one better and add some Dems. When first elected Obama, had a solid majority in the house and Senateand made a couple questionable choices:
1. He met with big Pharma and decide not to pursue price negotiation on medication. (Note: Bushes law prevents the Gov. from negotiating prices.)
2.His appointments reflect his beliefs. IE: Most of his choices were people that were heavily involved with Wall Street and not with the welfare of the American People.
3.He spent allot of time and effort on "Obamacare" which will force everyone to buy it. (Can we hear a big Thank You from the Ins. Companies)
4.He escalated in Afghanistan, rather than pulling our troops out. Iraq- he re-named combat people to something else and to this day we pay for around 50,000 troops and 75,000 mercenaries. (Note: I am just guesstimating on these numbers.)
5.The defense budget keeps growing. Around 685 Billion in 2010. More than 7 times the amount the closest country to us spends. The cost to maintain America's empire is getting too high. Check wikipedia for details.
By the way, I voted for him....
Yeah, well I voted for President Obama, and I plan to vote for him again. He's smarter than the infants he's dealing with, and I hope he'll just ignore their nonsense, and do what's best for the country. If that means invoking the 14th amendment? So be it!
angus, being smart ( may I assume that you mean intelligent) isn't always a good thing, especially for one that doesn't follow any of the recomendations of any commisions he appoints. BTW - threatening to veto legislation isn't very smart, Maybe obama is taking after pelosi in not wanting to read a bill.
When I look at the ultra-partisan character of the so-called republican party nowadays, I feel nauseated. Didn't there used to be something about responsibility, civic service, integrity, fiscal sanity, prudent governance, decent compromise?
I feel like there was some sort of alien invasion and now "republicans" are actually pod-people, or maybe they have something like those puppeteer things on their spines controlling them.
I'm not a democrat and I'm not a republican, but I utterly reject the insanity coming from the radical regressive teapublicans. I disagree with Obama on a great many things, but I would NEVER vote for one of the idiots puffing themselves up as republican presidential candidates for 2012. I'd rather cut off my own hand than push a ballot button for one of those uninformed unqualified nutjobs.
I have been quite disgusted by the nonsense over the debt limit, which SHOULD NOT BE THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW, they should be talking about job creation. Instead, there's a level of ineptitude that would receive a failing grade in civics class if anyone were actually paying attention. Governance is the art of compromise, and compromise means that both sides must move from their original positions and give up something. Has any democratic president gone so far to the right in living memory? And still the teapuddles cry about having to answer to
TorquemadaGrover Norquist if they ever breathe an unorthodox thought about taxes. Saint Ronald looks like a tree hugging commie pinko compared to Cantor and the house republicans. It's insane.So... are there any rational grownups in Washington who can agree that a fair and balanced approach would have the upper echelons of income contribute by paying their fair share at Clinton era levels without any loopholes or tax breaks, and everyone else contribute by seeing less availability from social services and thus greater personal responsibility?
Anyone? (*crickets*)
perhaps if the left specifically identified what they would cut and with numbers rather than rhetoric, you would feel better.
It is amazing that you forget that taxes will be increasing after 2012, but yet the liberals still want more revenue and still not put in writing the cuts and amount of cuts they support. Then again, it is easy to just legislate a raise in taxes vs actually trying to control spending over a multitude of programs.
And what exactly is "fair share?"
Will somebody please explain that to me?
The tax cuts cost 2.7 Trillion dollars.
What do you think their fair share should be. I know it shouldn't be nothing.
Do you know that after the tax cuts were enacted, taxes paid by millionaire households increased from $136 billion in 2003 to $274,000 billion in 2006?
Which part of the tax cuts would you like to reverse? The part that increased the AMT level that kept 21 million households from being subject to the higher rates of AMT? The increased child credit or the reduction of the marriage penalty? How about the rules allowing acceleration of depreciation that encouraged business investment in capital equipment? Or, lowering the capital gains tax rate to 5% for those in the 0 and 15% tax brackets. Or the lowering of all tax brackets even for those earning $28,400 to $143,500? What portion of $2.7 trillion did these cuts account for?
As far as fair share, since 50% of the country pay all of the taxes and 50% don't, I think tax rates are pretty fair right now, personally. If those making over $500,000 a year (like President Obama) want to write a check to the IRS I'm sure the Treasury will gladly cash the check.
You know the wealthy are not paying "nothing." Rather they are paying the bulk - and not likely using the services they are paying for. So, again, what would you consider "fair share?"
I appreciate and understand your viewpoint Candice, however, you are leaving out that the top 1% are buying off politicians to make sure that the money keeps flowing and the poor stay in there rightful place...poverty.
nwrob - neither party of politicians have the market cornered on payoffs by special interests with buckets of money. Sadly.
Your right each party is equally responsible.
Government can provide all the tax breaks and credits to the nostalgic 'small businesses'; but without the interaction of societal members; purchasing their products, their business slowly collapses. The benefits of opening overseas markets, at best, is temporary; as well as, lower wages and less regulations. In the long run, as those nations' society expands, their governments will enforce higher wages and regulations on business. Just wait until the Chinese people organize and demand union representation.
yep, you just can't keep good men down. If the chinese government is smart they will provide the same benefits to the workers as the unions promise. It is no accident that private sector unions have been in decline since government has legislated many safety and wage reforms and that business has maintained reasonable competiveness in wages and benefits. Besides who wants two bosses?
Private sector unions have been in decline because companies that were making money with the unions in place got offered a tax break to leave our country and pay low wages and no benefits just below the border in Mexico. Republicans are fighting to keep those tax breaks today. The companies were made an offer they couldn't refuse and then the corporations could begin to break the back of the unions.
To make the revenge even sweeter for the republicans they started at the birthplace of the unions.
This year killing unions has been a multi-prong attack. The republican final swoop to kill unions hasn't been too popular with the voters.
Boehner needs to dump the حفلة شاي wing of his party. They certainly aren't working in the best interest of this country.
Bonehead's plan is dead, the CBO says it will save less than represented. Johnny Boy Bonehead never saw a smoke and mirrors proposal that he didn't like!
One of the two plans is most certainly dead.
It isn't Boehner's plan, however.
The cheer leading is amazing.
These fine folk cannot even see they are the same basic plan, both so far away from Obama's starting point.
What happens when one side cannot even figure out that they have lost?
Mixed, How many Plans have failed to date, can you put a # up there?
After all the Hype & Blame, in the End, a Clean Debt Ceiling Vote will occur & it'll pass!
Believing otherwise is Bad for EveryOnes Health!
Yall on the Right need to go see The Alaskans Wild DingBats movie for goodness sake, it's tanking!
Grab the kids & the Better Halfs & go Donate to Sarah's movie Fund!
HAHAHA! Did you hear her movie fiasco is going straight to pay for view? WTF?
Ain't enough popcorn in the world to make me watch that crap!
Aww poor old gal - the diabetes must be kicking in.
[HAHAHA! Did you hear her movie fiasco is going straight to pay for view? WTF?]
The local Borders bookstore was trying to GIVE her book away they were stuck with so many copies...no luck :(((
Jesus H. Christ on a pop sickle stick...now Schpanky the Klown is making fun of diabetics? First its women, then disabled veterans, then the mentally ill...now diabetics...how pathetically sad.
What is the world coming to...
Mixed Bag
One of the two plans is most certainly dead.
It isn't Boehner's plan, however.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
C'omon, You aren't surprised that the two plans "dovetail"?
The president may be a novice but the speaker, majority leader and minority leader are old hands...
Wow you guys stay on for the long haul.
Anyway talking about failed plans if the Boehner plan doesn't make it out of the House and the Senate plan doesn't get approval from the House, what are we left with? Boehner is now rewriting his plan to appease the Tea Party and will make it worse. Can they get past the symbolic votes already?
Not saying that I'm in love with the Reid plan $2.7 Trillion in cuts, but doesn't it have no tax increases? Why aren't the GOP claiming victory and taking it? Is it not enough to win do they have to completely table the opposition? Is there no voice of reason in the House?
That all spanky's got. If you had said it, well, he would be all righteous now. For spice they throw in an it's Obama's fault.
Yellow - The Senate plan is smoke and mirrors. To make its numbers it takes $1 trillion in savings from the Iraq & Afghan war. Those savings aren't there yet. The gimmicks alone make it worthless and we need to cut real spending not play games. There are huge taxes that kick in come 2013 until the new GOP majority gets them reversed from 0bamacare's being ruled unconstitutional or repealed and the GOP making the 0bama tax cuts permanent.
In your world, Blackbelt so if there is no new taxes and the Obama tax cuts remain past 2013 how is the difference made up. As your side is quick to say the deficits will be $1 trillion plus per year. There is no way we can cut $1 Trillion a year, none.
As your side is quick to say GDP is barely there and the economy is barely growing. How will the economy and hiring increase enough to grow our economy and lessem our debt?
What do you think about Boehner's plan, you know the CBO said it would not be enough? It appears as if his plan is a bit smoky as well.
I'm just glad the CBO scored the Boehner plan, Mark.
The last time the Speaker signed on the dotted line, the spending cuts weren't real.
Apparently, they will be real this time around.
Maybe we'll get to find out if the President will veto real reductions in spending...when it also means vetoing the raising of the debt ceiling.
By the way...did you see our own Chuck Todd and Fox's new employee Ed Henry double-teaming White House press secretary Jay Carney about why the President won't detail his own specific cuts in spending?
Great stuff.
Talk about the "odd couple"...
New employees at MSNBC, no. Despite what you may believe I hardly watch MSNBC primetime. How about you did you see CNN"s new contributor Erin Burnett? She said that the rating agencies if they continue to lose confidence will probably downgrade US whatever is agreed to.
Shakes head sadly.
Mixed Bag, why does the GOP harp so much on uncertainty about HCR and regulations on business and how it is bad for the economy; but some gop don't give a second thought to all the uncertainty that this fight is causing?
You're talking to the wrong guy about Obamacare, Mark.
Over the years, my own union deferred wage increases in favor of better health care benefits.
When President Obama decided that the health care plans of middle-class working stiffs like me were "Cadillac" plans, and wanted to slap a 40% excise tax on my health care plan to hold down health care costs, that was it for me and the President's version of "health care reform".
My union, which supported President Obama in 2008, but nevertheless runs its own non-profit health care plan for its members, immediately urged all members to e-mail their representatives to stop the excise tax. In the end, under heavy union pressure, the implementation of the excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" plans has been delayed. Hopefully, the U.S. Supreme Court will toss out Obamacare before it can ever be implemented.
President Obama's health care reform did nothing for the vast majority of American health care consumers for whom "health care reform" meant controlling the rate of increase of premiums for the health care that most are largely satisfied with, and would like to be able keep.
There was nothing in Obamacare that addressed rising costs (that is, other than the despicable 40% excise tax)...no provisions to allow consumers to purchase health care across state lines to encourage competition between providers; no tort reform.
Nothing.
It's no wonder Obamacare remains an unpopular, hyper-partisan piece of legislation.
How sad that it's the Administration's crowning achievement.
Mixed Bag you are a union member! How socialistic of you! :}
Actually, I wasn't too happy about Obama calling my state plan a cadillac plan either. Perhaps you've seen me criticize HCR and its merits and short comings. Water under the bridge, not the topic.
My question is why do the GOP call uncertainty bad for the economy and yet seem relentless in causing uncertainty because they refuse to compromise?
is boehner trying to inject himself as the new president now? this is ridiculous. their job is to pay for the budget. somehow the repub power hungry morons lost track of the fact that congress does not dictate to the president nor hold a gun to the head of the American people. time to clean house in 2012. i hope they know their time is short and all the hypnotized blue-hairs wont help in the main elections when everyones not working
Obviously you didn't take US Govt when you were in school. Budgets and spending bills originate in the House - go to the Senate and then to the POTUS. Each branch is a check and balance on the other. The problem we have now is a POTUS and Senate that have refused to do their part in passing a budget in over 800 days and are spending at an obscene level that we can not afford. One of the checks and balances who was just swept into a majority with a mandate in the House is doing their job - representing the will of the majority of the people. Look at any poll not done by liberal hacks and you will see that the American people want this insane spending stopped.
Again obama threatens to veto any plan made by the republicans and passed by congress.
I hope that both houses do pass boehners plan, then any default would be irrivocably laid on obama only.
Seems like obamas threat should be the catalyst for many to present a united front against the great divider obama.
Well, keep on hoping. This administration is all about hope and change. One thing that should not change though is the attitude W. Bush left us:
Whats good for the goose (W) is good for the gander (Obama)... unless you T-publicans want to admit in this public forum that you support a double standard [do as I want, not as I do] of hypocrisy that is tantamount to class warfare. Come on... admit it!
American - President Obama didn't threaten to veto ANY plan made by the Republicans and passed by Congress. I believe he said that he would veto a bill that did not deal with the debt ceiling for longer term. Now, you can agree or disagree with his position, but don't lie about what he said.
Boehner knows up front his plan is a bad one ..he was contacted and told by the hedge funds.. if no taxes were raised.... it still will make the downgrading of credit of the USA necessary ..And he doesn't care !
True, but it may be interesting to see exactly which Republicans sell off their stocks if they don't raise the debt limit.
Hopefully if Republicans sell off their stocks it will be considered insider trading.
I got a "underpayment of tax' notice from the IRS for $413. I sent them a hammer just like the one DOD payed $435 for, and a note, "I realize this hammer represents an overpayment of my taxes by $22, and would like you to send this overpayment to the Presidential election fund. Or, perhaps just send a phillips screwdriver.
Unknown Boehner plan debt is the ratio of the largest in the plan, which represents the uncertainty
Unknown Boehner plan debt is the ratio of the largest in the plan, which represents the uncertainty. this uncertainty is the wall between the correct vision and political monument
The difference between these two parties on this issue is pretty simple. The Dem's are willing to make cuts to some programs but won't budge on raising taxes on the richest Americans, basically the upper 2% of income earners. They also want to up the corporate tax rate and get these extremely rich companies like Exxon/Mobile, Shell, Chevron ect. to pay there fair share in taxes. The Republicans want to cut all social programs and keep all tax breaks as is and don't want the corporate tax rate touched, in fear of more job's lost and the economy becoming worst. We as citizens need to decide where we stand on this and act accordingly. If you lean toward the Democratic ideas, on your way home to night flip off the guy next to you in the Mercedes. If you use a gas company credit credit to fill up you tank, when the bill comes, pay it and put a harshly written letter in it for the CEO of that company. If you live in a district where your congressman is a Republican, write him/her a letter and ask where all of the jobs are since all of these companies have been enjoying these huge tax breaks since the Bush era. And if your really upset, stop by one of the nearest high rises in your city and slip and fall in the lobby, but make it look good.
If you agree with the republicans, on your way home tonight stop off at your local senior center and find two old people that are playing checkers and laugh in their face and tell them good luck when social security checks stop and medicare is cut. Stop by your local public school and tell the teachers at that school "good luck finding a job" when funding to public schools are cut to the bone and they are unemployed. Stop by a youth center and ask the kids which gang will they be joining when their center is shut down due to lack of funding. And don't forget to stop by a Wall Mart and snicker at the old guy greeting you and be sure to ask him which flavor of Alpo is his favorite.
DJ, Being just a little dramatic? Republicans want to cut ALL social programs?? Really?
The Dems are willing to make cuts to some programs but very few want to raise taxes. Most of them know, and some have even said that raising taxes on a fragile economy is a bad idea.
Can you please explain to me what exactly is "their fair share?"
I think writing a harshly written letter is an excellent way to voice your frustration and you should definitely do that. Instead of flipping off your fellow citizen - the guy in the Mercedes - you could work and strive to own a Mercedes yourself one day. America is the land of opportunity.
I would hope one would stop by the senior center and reassure our elderly that no one is going to take away their social security checks. President Obama just likes to scare our seniors for his own political gain. It's wrong. Kind of like kicking puppies. Not very Presidential or even compassionate.
Telling it like it is is always too dramatic for republicans. Candace is so busy denying everything in her head she did not get the joke. Not a joke really, you were joking.
I started this morning by e-mailing my represenative.
I'm sorry. Then it must be running joke because it sounded like most of the rants that are posted here daily at First Read.
Good for you, for emailing your rep. Did you get a response?
Not yet.
The Boehner plan. Garbage.
IF our politicians (all parties) didn't kiss the backsides of their "big money" supporters, IF our politicians didn't choose to play "police force" and "caretakers" of the entire world, we wouldn't be in the shape we are in. During the Viet Nam conflict some of our military had a battle cry: "Kill them all and let God decide!" I'm beginning to think it should apply when we go to vote. Get them all out of office and start fresh. This is the season when all the parties are getting "power hungry". As a result we, the average citizen, are being served up with nothing but political BS. Its time we put our foot down like good parents and make the "kiddies" tow the line. Call, write or e-mail your congerssmen/women and let them know where you stand. The time to act is now!
Boner (R-Oompah-Loompah) doesn't have a plan...the Teabaggers have his balls in a vice.
Maybe Boner should talk to Rush again and ask him what to do.
And squeezing tight! lol
The Tea Baggers have Crybaby Boehner scared silly. Talk about having no backbone!
The Tea Baggers are writing the script, and Crybaby Boehner is reading it verbatim.
What a coward, and talk about failed leadership, Boehner can't get his cub scouts in line, quite the opposite, the cub scouts have got Boehner in line.
Feisty,
I haven't seen Beverly in Chicago lately. Everything okay?
Thanks for the concern Candy - sorry if I'm cynical but it was your side that beat the crap out of her!
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
Now everyone wants to know where she is....
On the bright side, it's good seeing you but I'm still confused why you dropped the Bartlett IL?
My computer was dying so I switched to a new one but the operating system didn't like my browser so I switched to a new browser, too. FR couldn't match my name with my new computer. I originally set up my account with my husband's email address, couldn't remember the sign on's, (didn't want to ask him - he hates my obsession with politics), had to open a new account and couldn't use the Bartlett part (it was "used by someone else" ---me!) Long story and more than you really wanted to know, right?
Anyway, glad Bev is okay. Sorry she gave up the fight.
The Republicans said they didn't want to "kick the can down the road"; the Boehner plan does.
The Republicans said they wanted real cuts of at least 3-4 trillion; the Boehner plan doesn't do that.
The republicans said they didn't want a stop gap measure; The Boehner plan requires us to go through this whole nonsensical exercise again, in 6 months.
Basically the Boehner plan is his his Hail Mary because the reality is that he isn't sure if he can pass anything in the house that might make it through the senate. The Republicans gave up 3-4 trillion dollars, of real cuts just because they won't consider any tax hikes or even allow the monies, from closing loopholes, to go towards the deficit.
The Republicans, in the house have become a dangerous liability to our countries economic recovery. Boehner likes to set Obama up as the "straw Man", but the real battle is against the right wingers, in his own party and any clear headed person should recognize it.
As opposed to our messiah Obama's plan to just raise the credit limit a few more TRILLION dollars THIS time around (you better believe it will happen again)???? Wake up libs. When you get what you want, you'll wake up one day to find that there is no U.S. anymore. Better start learning Mandarin.
Addemdums for the cutting.
1. Eliminate COLAS for Congress
2. 10% across the board pay cuts
3. Cut Congressional Pensions in half
4. No specific Medical coverage, must find and pay for private insurance from current salaries.
5. First ones not paid on default are Congress members
The republicans always blame Obama for the deficit. How much of the deficit was generated under every president including Reagan. Check the facts ===most of it was. The tea bagger republicians are like the john birchers, they want to destroy america.
I just think Republicans and Tea Baggers only want to do whatever they can to hurt America and the American People and I think they've convinced themselves that if they hurt us as much as they can, even though we KNOW they're the ones who made ALL the trouble, they STILL think they can lie their way out of it and find a way to blame the President.