Citizens were calling in telling their Representatives to impeach this idiot.

JS1:

Link to facts please. Support your statement. I have seen nothing indicating the deluge of phone calls last night was about impeaching anyone.

I'm sure it's just like President Clinton...the Teapublicans have the articles all written up and are just waiting to fill in the blank on that pesky "high crimes and misdemeanors" clause.

This to me is what activism is all about. We don't need to donate money to anyone to do this. We can do it ourselves. We don't need to degrade the President or anyone. We can speak up without the hate. Really we can.

Keep up the good work America!!!!

I don't see how anyone could watch the President's speech last night and not register admiration, at the very least, for his intelligence and pragmatism. I understand Rpublicans are predisposed to disagree with him, but you cannot argue he isn't one of the most gifted leaders we've ever had in that office. I wish I could give him a Democratic House in 2012.

Um JoAnna, I have seen emails and faxes of what is being sent to Congress. The only people wanting "impeachment" are you and your screwy pals. Most of America isn't as hateful as you and your gang of idiots.

Not only can most of our country not stand the likes of you. Even Europe is furious at the irresponsible Teapartiers. As they should be. Thanks for looking the other way for years as GWB sent this country down the tubes.

Same can be said for the ex-republicans on tv who are now - by some miracle - progressives. Riiiight. They as well looked the other way, beginning with Reagan.

But go ahead, blame President Obama. He's only here for a few years to fix your mess. You gave us the deficit. Not Clinton. Not Obama.

It was you and your pals.

1. Tea Party speaks for the corporations that pumped $millions into them at the midterms. They say what GOP officials are afraid to say. The "Tea Party" is like the Expendables who do a lot of damage before the ground troops come in. The two arms may point fingers at each other, but they're together.

2. How about Democrats sign a pledge saying they will not make any spending cuts? Would that level the playing field?

Boehner is following along with this small group of 100 Tea Party members, not leading it. They're working hand in glove to put America in default. Ask why.

Pat, Boston, MA: The only people wanting "impeachment" are you and your screwy pals

Sure. To a Liberal such as yourself, it's "screwy" to be fiscally responsible. Liberals like you just love it when Obama has that blank check book. Sorry Patty, those days have ended. And how's that raise taxes pledge of Obama's coming along?

And keep comparing Obama with Reagan. It just makes Obama look even smaller.

JAS1

That Idiot? Are sure that's what really on your mind.....I hope you have the same audacity come '12

2012 Election, will be an election to remember. It will surly be THE PEOPLE VS ........... that's right.

I know for sure that no IDIOT will vote to have his/her medicare, SS taken away or have the budget balanced on their back .

JoAnnaSmith1, talking outta Uranus yet again!!

Funny how you can't get through to congress, but I have already been able to leave two messages at the white house! I don't think John Boener and his clan want to really talk to or hear from the "people"... reminds me of Scott Walker in Wisconsin! That's Scary!!!!

Around 10am this morning I had no problem getting through to my Senator or my congressman. In the case of my Senator..Nelson from Fl I left a message. With my Congressman, the exceedingly charming Allen West, I spoke to a staffer. Of course, I know that Sen. Nelson will vote to raise the debt ceiling, but with the Congressman a darling of the TP, I feel certain it was a wasted effort.

Sorry, but we wouldn't be in this mess if:

1. There were jobs so people wouldn't have to suck money out of social programs, to you know, LIVE.

and

2. If the tax cuts didn't happen. This is PROOF POSITIVE that trickle down economics don't work. This country gave an inch, and what did the select few do? Take not just one mile, but 100.

You tell me HOW the president is suppose to create jobs, when the ones with the jobs have tax breaks, get subsidies, making record breaking profits, etc., yet REFUSE to produce jobs. Tell me, how? By handing them MORE money? No, sorry. It hasn't worked that way.

Oh, and if you Tea Bagging Republican supporters knew your history, you would know that this crash had the same exact signs that the one from 1929 had, MONTHS before the election, and two, you would also know it took well over a decade to fix. The only difference is that this country has plenty of money in it, it's just sitting in the pockets of the top 2%, who can make a difference if they bother to either make jobs or start paying what they like to try to hide.

I have read a certain poster's comments over the last few years and have to say they can be some of the most insulting, bigoted, downright false, and, worst of all, most uninformed posts I have ever read. But what do we expect from some one who cannot see past their Republican talking points in order to see reality.

Please enlighten all of us as to which high crimes and misdemeaners he should be impeached for. And then the rest of us will give you our lists of why Bush and Cheney should have been impeached. You, and people like you, are the problem. You think that it can only be your way or no way. I put up with Bush for 8 years. You and your pals couldn't put up with a single day of Obama before you started on him. The best example of this stupidity was the poor lady in Minnesota who at a John McCain rally claimed Obama was an Arab. Really?!!! You still associate yourself with this insanity.

As I watched Congresswoman Blackburn last night on "Last Word" I realized what the problem with your party is and why I will never again vote for the GOP - you don't reason and when you are caught in a lie all you do is bring out another talking point that usually does not make sense to the question and just keep talking and talking and you get louder and louder until every one just gives into you just to get rid of you. Congresswoman Blackburn is what your party has become. A group of mean spirited, hold every one hostage until I get my way little two year olds. The party of me fits the new GOP perfectly. Let’s cut SS or medicare. Let’s cut food stamps and Children's Health Care. Let’s kill the Consumer Protection agency and "Obamacare" before they get started. But keep your hands off the corporations and their stockholders. I guess reasonable people, according to you and your kind, think its ok for me and you to pay more in taxes than hedgefund managers and corporations like GE. I guess it is ok for the super rich to keep getting richer while everyone else sinks lower. But hey they are true Americans - unlike those lazy public sector union workers who sit around all day doing nothing constructive.

Once upon a time it was ok to talk to some one of another political party. Now it’s almost unheard of. What a sad state the U.S. is in when we have two parties who cannot see the virtue of compromise. I am ashamed of our politicians but I am more ashamed in the people who voted for this GOP freshman class. For all you Democrats who stayed home in 2010… thank you, this is what you earned yourself. I hope you now realize that you don’t stay home just because you didn’t get your way 100% of the time.

Let the criticisms with this post begin…

JoAnna:

Citizens were calling in telling their Representatives to impeach this idiot.

Oh, JoAnna ... this BEGS for a demand to see your source for that. You're always so scrupulous in believing nothing I or anyone else out here says without proper citation.

Proof, JoAnna. Like you always demand from me.

I know I called to volunteer some duct tape so the jug-eared pinhead could pin back his flaps so the wind wouldn't take him away.

Then, I told them to tell Hussein, I mean Barack to STOP playing class warfare with our country. It's old, it's tiresome, and it's un-American. I'm sick and tired of his false choices. "We can have people who make over $200,000 pay more...or...we can roll old ladies down the steps in their wheelchairs". What a tool this guy is.

So that's five speeches in three weeks.

No solutions, no specifics for a solution. Last night we got 15 minutes of avoiding both.

THe republicans are bad because they don't agree with his approach, yet he has no plan.

This must be the new gold standard of leadership in the age of Hope and Change - voting present.

Meanwhile someone just bet $1 billion that the US would lose it's AAA rating, on the futures market.

Meanwhile even Politico and CNN are starting to see the emperor has no clothes [or plan] and called Obama out.

It is amusing that Obama is still calling for tax hikes [which is now referred to as a "balanced approach"] yet none of the actual plans, including Reid's has tax increases.

And smewhere Jimmy Carter is smiling. Sometimes second biggest idiot of all time isn't such a bad thing.

Good times.

JoAnna - Yours is the first case of the brain dead, I have come across that still allows typing ability to continue unabated. Do us all a favor and go to the light.

Statements like that one reveal who the TRUE idiot is JS1!!!

LMAO! Just gave my monitor a coffee shower!

Damage:

"We can have people who make over $200,000 pay more...or...we can roll old ladies down the steps in their wheelchairs". What a tool this guy is.

What a great moniker you have. It seems to suit you. But setting aside for a moment the rest of your inappropriate and inflammatory remarks, just to answer your last statement --

What's YOUR plan for not rolling the "old ladies down the steps in their wheelchairs"? All I ever hear about is cutting their benefits, mostly, according to Alan from NJ, to "protect" those people who pay for the benefits.

I sincerely doubt that will do the job. Got anything else?

{deep sigh} Is it August 2 yet?

The government server broke down.

Of course it did. It's the government. They can't do anything right.

Look at the data Netflix deals with every day. Then look at how awesome the DMV is.

THe headline should of course be "the government server unexpectedly shut down."

I just posted the following email to my Member of ongress - and am about to send it to the state's two Senators as well:

Dear Rep. ******:

It is appalling that a tiny percentage of House Members who affiliate themselves with the "Tea Party" movement can control the entire Chamber.

They have manufactured a crisis for the nation over the debt ceiling vote, purely to achieve their rigid ideological goals. And the roots of their efforts date back to 1981 - and earlier.

Please speak out vigorously against the Tea Party's national hostage-taking. Please call for a simple bill to raise the debt ceiling, rather than submit to the kinds of cuts and limits being crammed down the country's throat without adequate debate and discussion.

Please, your constituents are outraged at the behavior of the right-wing ideologues. Voice our collective outrage, loudly, often and from every possible platform.

SPANKY

You know better. the fight is not that the president do not have a specific plan. we know all party agree to spending cuts and tax reforms but you guys like to stay on message, keep the lies on message, the question is, who pitches in.

Obama is for all to sacrifices while GOPers supports appeasing the rich hoping for some miracle jobs to be created. since bush tax cuts, where are the jobs? why did the country economy fail?

Governance is not my way or no other way.

This will end how it always does. They will bleed every last second they can then make a deal (a deal probably agreed on months ago), then they will all go back to their constituents bragging about how they held the line or didn't cave or some other thing and how how their side won a victory for the American people. Then its off to the backroom to script out the next crisis that will divert our attention from whatever the hell it is they don't want us focusing on.

Uh, John, you may be miscalculating a bit here. That "tiny percentage" was recently voted in by a huge majority who did so to stop the dangerous, out of control spending by the current administration.

abnd: JoAnna - Yours is the first case of the brain dead, I have come across that still allows typing ability to continue unabated. Do us all a favor and go to the light.

Thank you for the endorsement abnd. I look forward to new followers like yourself and other folks to discuss the issues of the day. And watch your comma placement dearie.

Have a great day!

Johanna Smith_— You keep trying to convert the liberal non-convertible people on this blog. God bless your persistence with these liberals who care nothing about sound economic policies. Liberals can only thrive in a welfare state and they keep trying to make us more and more like a welfare state where everyone is beholding to them for everything. The whole reason why we are actually finally discussing debt cuts is because of the Tea Party forces that are slowly but surely bringing this country back into economic sanity. You hang in there; your posts are not going unnoticed by the people that really care about this country and not just about population management and control of every aspect of their lives.... oh and the next election (Obama's only focus)!!

Admiration for the President's speech last night????... I think not! All I heard from Obama was no specific solutions that have been written down (What happened to "We will show you all the numbers and cuts" promised after his last tirade in the White House Briefing Room last week?), the same sad ole song about "It is Bush's fault and I have have not done anything to make it worse", but mostly.... "Please take this off my plate so I don't have to explain the terrible mess I have made of this economy...I have fund raising to do that is more important to me!!!"

Well Pius, if Obama advocates that "all" sacrifice, I guess he must advocate that the 47% of those who pay no income tax start forking over their "fair share", huh?

There were two speakers last night; one blamed both Parties for this mess and one blamed Obama.

Isn't admitting to the problem the first step to recovery?

The only thing Boner was missing yesterday was "It's all Obama's fault" T-shirt. Instead, he decided to wear his $3K suit.

When I want to compare the GOTP to Democratic Party I think of the Democratic Party, and I take away reason and accountability and voila, you have the Tea Bags of the new GOP.

Spider -

As usual, you are wrong.

On Election Day, exit polls showed that 22% of the ballots cast were influenced by Tea Party positions - 56% said the movement was irrelevant to their voting decisions. Those numbers have remained relatively constant in polling since.

Tea Party representatives constitute about 5% of the two Houses, with only 8% in the House majority. That's a TINY minority of members.

The majority of Americans didn't vote for debt and deficit reduction, either. Their first concern, by a large margin, was jobs. Their second was the economy, and their third - ready for it? 'cause here comes the RAID - was disgust over excessive partisanship in D.C.

Hey, someone call housekeeping. There's a dead spider in the corner.

FuS: Johanna Smith_— You keep trying to convert the liberal non-convertible people on this blog.

You've got me confused with someone else. There is no hope of conversion of any of the lefty-loons that crawl around this blog. They're just a lot of fun to watch.

spider-737231

Well Pius, if Obama advocates that "all" sacrifice, I guess he must advocate that the 47% of those who pay no income tax start forking over their "fair share", huh?

that's in comparison to over 66% of corporations that don't pay taxes either.

I guess you can compare the 47% (that include HS students, college students, single mothers, unemployed, retirees, etc) to the corporations that make billions, millions, hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit.

Thanks for pointing that out spider!

Indy:

Then its off to the backroom to script out the next crisis that will divert our attention from whatever the hell it is they don't want us focusing on.

You mean like continuing high unemployment and sagging housing prices? Like the wars that they can't seem to bring themselves to end? Like the other problems that they have not even begun to address, such as education, environment, and infrastructure? Like how they're all bought and paid for and tied up with a bow by lobbyists and special interests? Like how they don't REALLY care one little bit about how health care costs are out of control or workers everywhere are quickly losing their rights to bargain over decent wages and, God forbid, benefits? Like how local governments in many states are being forced to cede control to the state? Like how campaign finance laws have spiraled totally out of control, so that now the average Congressperson spend several hours out of every day just raising money, instead of doing any meaningful work?

And I'm sure you could name a few more things, besides.

You're absolutely right.

JoAnna:

And watch your comma placement dearie.

You, too, apparently.

Bless you Anna, nice to see that someone else can see through the fog.

Ok Pius let's try it your way. You say Obama is all for sacrifices.

Name them.

See this here is, according to you all, crunch time. The world is about to end in 7 days.

So what are those sacrifices, and given thehour, what are his specifics. Absent specifics he is totally worthless.

And hey are you not stoked like I am to see Reid had come on over to the republican position of no tax increases? That's great news, right?

SSo how come Obama is still spouting off about tax increases? He seems a little out of the loop, eh? See, devil really is in the details, which is why he wants to give none.

In other words Three Cheers For President "Present."

At 12:12 pm, Senate servers are offline, at least for GOP members.

Back online at 12:16 - but slow as molasses in January.

JoAnna - Please don't flatter yourself. The only thing I will follow regarding you is your incarceration, institutionalization or your demise. BTW, and isn't spelt "abnd", unless of course its conservative "code".

Jim,

You are a racist clown. With comments like yours any argument that the Tea Bags aren't racists are moot.

you left wing wackos still drinking the obama malt liquor .... get with the program it is time to get the devil out of office

Thanks Jim! what an AH!

@Johannasmith1

I for one am undeclared and can read between the lines.

one thing I can say is you would still have the same congress in place irregardless who was President, so what does that really do?

secondly: your own Republican party is split in two, Democrats are still all one party....so really what does that say....it's say's your own party can't agree either and won't compromise. Democrats can at least agree to disagree without splitting the party up. Your party of no compromise is getting us no where.

spider-737231

47% like the Grannies, retired veterans, retirees while the shell, GE, Koch brothers, Gates, Soros are appeased. This is what your asking for? It's not beyond GOP. We already saw under bush the biggest wealth distribution and your still asking for more. you guys are simply unbelievable and shameless.

SPANKY

Get off the message line. There is NO tax increase in Obama proposals. All he asked is the wealthiest, coporations to give up their tax subsidies.

I see left and right wing-nuts and they do not even know they are nuts!

How is it that when the Dem controlled the Senate and the House, they did not pass a budget? How is it that it has been 2 years since the Senate has approved a budget? If this is true, how can the Dems say they will have a budget after the election of 2012- can they deliver?

One day it will read: USA-made in Greece

Have a great day!

Here's a fact that people like Joanna apparently don't know...or will quickly gloss over.

The debt ceiling was raised eight times from 1997-2008. Seven of those raises came during the Bush administration - and all seven times, a majority of republicans in both houses voted yes to raise the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling was raised as astonishing EIGHTEEN during Reagan's 8 years in office.

Here's a couple more FACTS for you, Joanna...

1. Raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with long-term future spending. The debt ceiling is about paying for spending already approved by previous congresses and presidents. An example? As Zaid Jilani reported, it was 10 years ago this week that the Treasury had to borrow $51 billion to pay for the first installments of Bush's tax cuts. As Jilani notes, Bush's two rounds of tax cuts combined "have blown a $2.5 trillion hole in America's budget."

2. The total Bush added to the deficit was almost $4 trillion and, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Bush's two tax cuts and two wars will account for nearly half of public debt projected by 2019.

So, Joanna...stop regurgitating rhetoric and start learning and making some decisions based on FACTS instead of your all obvious and completely obvlious partisanship. With every post, you only prove how little you really know and understand about anything except how to be snarky and condescending even though it's obvious to everyone that you don't know your ass from your elbow when it comes to economics.

After reading many articles and comments on the Vine and other political
blogs, I have reached a rather startling conclusion; whether you are a
Republican griping and complaining about those liberal dems or a Democrat
pitching a fit about those conservative repubs or an Independent going off on
both, you are absolutely correct. I am here to congratulate you on your clarity
of vision and your ability to see the truth.

JoAnna, You should not correct the grammer of others when you are not reading your own posts for errors. abnd?

Trust JoAnna to be able to stir the First Read ant-hole to the nth degree.

Although President Obama has committed no impeachable offenses, and he isn't facing impeachment in any event, the seriousness of the reaction to JoAnna's tongue-in-cheek (I'm sure) comment has been amusing.

And...no one knows the breakdown of the calls arriving at the Capitol Hill switchboards, pro or con, to the remarks from either President Obama or Speaker Boehner.

Do they?

Both certainly have their constituencies, correct?

Anyway...

"...occasionally getting busy signals."...?

Sorry...not terribly impressed.

Hey, someone call housekeeping. There's a dead spider in the corner.

Eek! Housekeeping need in the FR Room!

Excellent post John.

it's obvious to everyone that you don't know your ass from your elbow when it comes to economics.

You've got her cold zivo. Too bad she is tone deaf.

Pius - a tax increase is an increase. You really are that clueless? Too Bad.

For example if you own a house and they tax away, or limit the mortgage deduction you taxes will have been raised.

Let's try this Puis - define "tax subsidy."

From another blog describing Obama "Bluffy the job-slayer."

Nice work JAS1. But come on messing with the libbies doesn;t take a whole lot now does it?

MB: Although President Obama has committed no impeachable offenses,

Is total disinterest and ineffectiveness in doing ones job an impeachable offense? If so, Obama should be shown the door asap.

At least Speaker Boehner is working hard. Looking Presidential actually.

MB: Nice work JAS1. But come on messing with the libbies doesn;t take a whole lot now does it?

Picked up a stalker in the process too.

Bring our troops home from all over the world. They do not need our protection
anymore. Why should we support foreign governments by giving them aid and paying
rent on military bases on their soil? Not only is it a drain on the defense
budget to supply and maintain those bases, but we also have to ask our sons and
daughters and mothers and fathers to man those bases. In so doing many times a
home is broken and sometimes beyond repair. The only other alternity to closing
them is to have the country they are in pay us for our presence there. Reimburse
the U. S. for our expenses of having them there and supply the land rent free
for them to live and work from. Our troops spend a lot of their paychecks in
those countries and help boost their economy. This would be one way to reduce the budget and create jobs here in America. Our military personell have to pay taxes from their salaries. Why should they have to live in a foreign country?

A Stalker? Cool.

Call Navy, I hear he's in charge of all cyber-bullying around these parts.

We should totally plan and end of the world party for Monday. I'll bring the keg of Natty Light.

Pat says, "Um JoAnna, I have seen emails and faxes of what is being sent to Congress. The only people wanting "impeachment" are you and your screwy pals. Most of America isn't as hateful as you and your gang of idiots."

The technical term is NOT "gang of idiots" it is "Scrotum of Teabaggers."

Do try to keep up.

In Georgia, it took me several minutes to get through to Senator Isakson's wesbsite and provide my comment. Senator Saxby Chambliss - couldn't get through at all last night. Today, the website comes up with errors, but I was successful in posting an email. Good luck, America.

@JoAnnasmith1..............didn't know you actually worked so closely with the President and Boehner to know who works hard and doesn't.......must be nice!

YEAH! Lets all just attack each others character becasue we can't have any mature or meaningful debates about the real issues at hand! WOO!

"Is total disinerest and ineffectiveness in doing ones job an impeachable offense?"

lol, JoAnna.

If only.

I'm afraid not.

Were that the case, our history would be more liberally sprinkled with impeached presidents.

zivo24 -

Very good post. You brought up a point that has been raised here several times in the past couple of weeks - but some folk are "stuck on stupid." The debt ceiling vote does NOT empower more freewheeling spending and is NOT "a blank check."

But count on it, Zivo .... the crap that followed those observations (some offered in considerable more detail than your concise writing) is about to be dumped here again by the usual suspects.

JoAnnaSmith1-

You need a serious reality check. The vast majority of the calls were people responding to the President's call to contact their representative and urge compromise. Your hatred of Obama is a minority opinion. If the country defaults, 61 % blame the Republicans in congress, while only 30% blame the President, according to the latest Rasmussen poll. If the country goes into default, the consequences will be catastrophic, and the Republicans will own the crises. That is why mainstream Republicans, like McConnell are willing to compromise, and I think Boner would be too, except that he can't control his Teatard freshman class.

In the USA Act, terrorism was redefined to be activity that appears to be intended to (1) intimidate or coerce the government or civil population AND (2) breaks criminal laws AND (3) endangers human life.

USA Act and the Financial Anti-Terrorism Act

GOP has officially met definition of terrorists.

Default is GOP WMD!

Old-Sarge: You need a serious reality check. The vast majority of the calls were people responding to the President's call to contact their representative and urge compromise.

Compromise you say. Compromise with what? Certainly not with any proposal with tax increases in it, because with Obama latching on to Reid's plan, Obama has given up on that idea.

If the country defaults, 61 % blame the Republicans in congress, while only 30% blame the President, according to the latest Rasmussen poll.

Believe me, that will get even worse for republicans is we default. They know it too, and that is why there are so many on here trying to get ahead of it, trying to change the the trajectory. But there are just too many videos and articles showing republicans happily anticipating default, they will get even more blame when those come back out of the vault. And people who are knee-jerk defenders of the republicans will have a hard time justifying it when it hits home. Republicans will get most of the blame, as they should.

The technical term is NOT "gang of idiots" it is "Scrotum of Teabaggers."

OMG! That's three times today for "housekeeping" on my monitor! LMAO!

It's funny to see the stiffs like JAS1 and others belly ache about the possibility of some of the tax loop holes being closed. They think they would actually notice or be effected. LMAO

for those of you who think it is a tax increase it is only on the top making over $250,000 and the loss of corporate loop holes and subsidies,

Quit listening to the GOP turn it around my god I can't believe ANYONE would actually believe his bull @!$%#.

You can bet those phone lines were burning up at Congress last night. People are tired of them stealing their money.

Actually polling suggests that the majority of Americans support spending cuts and tax increases. You're just making stuff up. Then again I guess reality never does jive with the cons perception of America.

Only a conservative would view taxation as a form of theft, because running a government requires NO money or should only the poor, sick, and elderly have to pay?

Somebody Please tell me why nobody in the media is bringing to light the fact that all these "public servants" who are willing to slash and burn the safety nets of millions have their own golden parachutes and gold plated medical plans which will not be affected. Not to mention their off-shore bank accounts provided by the lobbyists. Come on, Media- ask the tough questions. We need answers.

"The debt ceiling vote does NOT empower more freewheeling spending and is NOT "a blank check." John A. you are right it is both. If I take money from my wife to pay down my debt I am spending her money. And if I raise her allowance by $100.00 she just recieved a blank check from me upto that amount. By the way you and the leaders of your party will be getting neither.

So zivo,

Why did then-Senator Obama vote NOT to raise the debt ceiling??

Sally: It's funny to see the stiffs like JAS1 and others belly ache about the possibility of some of the tax loop holes being closed. They think they would actually notice or be effected.

I'm for full implementation of the recommendations made by the Presidents Debt Commission.

And you?

Sally: LMAO

Make sure no one trips over it.

arc-550134 -- Thanks for posting many of my very thoughts. I've heard the right wingers are back on the war path screaming about impeachment (now if not based on Birther citizenship, than for what?). Sounds like something Limbaugh started, or one of their viral E-mails. After Clinton was acquitted for perjury and obstruction of justice (all they could get after spending large sums tax dollars for their idiotic fishing expedition), congress will no longer play that game without darn good reason. Those calling for impeachment are truly ignorant as it's apparent they don't even know recent history let alone current events.

As for congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, I agree she refers to the Handbook for Contrarian Arseholes. She reminds us how Republicans refuse to own up to anything. But I suspect Joe Walsh is brought on as well for the very purpose of turning people off from the GOP/TP. Walsh breaks the record for saying the interviewers name. Both talk nonstop over everyone. I wonder if they realize they are being used to show how crazy they and others are in their Party.

What this really comes down to is the lack of civility in our society (per Reality TV). Whether it's Joe Wilson shouting "You lie" at the president during a public speech, or disrespect shown by Boehner not returning the president's phone call, the lack of civility and respect in our society at large is shown most by Republicans and in particular the Tea Party.

How can you all keep insisting that Democrats refuse to cut spending when they offered $4 Trillion in spending cuts and Republicans turned it down because something was asked in return? Democrats have offered at least 10 different ways to cut spending over and over, and the Republicans keep saying no because they don't seem to be able to ask the people who have more money than they could possibly ever spend to contribute anything to help their country. It is not the Democrats that are refusing to compromise.

JoAnnaSmith1

Here are the facts (about which you bloviate):

And. for your reading pleasure, here is what your Mr. Boehner & co would do to America:

It's sad and shocking how the Republicans have become the party of fiscal irresponsibility. GWB drove up the debt and increased the size of government. He is the one who gave us the $1 trillion+ Iraq War that was completely unncessary and grossly mismanaged the Afghan War. GWB was the one who bailed out the banks with TARP. Republicans are driving this country into the ground with their reckless spending combined with massive tax cuts.

Well, i do not have privileges to post links.

Doubt you have the energy or common sense, but for the truth, look up

How the Deficit Got This BigBy TERESA TRITCH
Published: July 23, 2011

and

CBPP Statement: July 25, 2011
For Immediate Release
Statement: Robert Greenstein, President, on House Speaker Boehner's New Budget Proposal

The article says the House is receiving a much larger volume of calls than normal, it is interesting to note the article does not say in support of which side, which is information that is usually given, but the fact that the Republicans are holding firmer than ever today would seem to be a likely indication of who is calling whom and for what purpose,also, DCHeritic I can not let Your statement go unanswered, President Bush did increase spending, no doubt, from 2001, (gee what happened that year,can't remember), until 2006 when the Republicans controlled both Houses of Congress and the Presidency, the national debt increased 534 billion dollars per year, that's a lot, but when the Dems took over in 2006 up through this year, the debt has increased an average of 1.5 trillion dollars per year! Such numbers are almost unimaginable , but just to place it in perspective let us look at just one night of the Democratic spending orgy the nation has been subjected to,13 Feb 2009, the Democratically controlled Congress , in the middle of the night passed an 800 billion dollar giveaway to their best buds and pals, with absolutely nothing ever being shown for it. To give You an Idea, for 800 billion dollars,(in today's money ,not then) You could buy and completely pay for; the entire U.S. Interstate Highway system, the entire 30 years of the U.S. Space shuttle program,and the cost of the Afghan War through thru 2009! The Democrats spent that in one night!, and now They want us to raise the debt ceiling by a measly couple of trillion dollars to pay the bills they have already amassed, AND, raise more taxes so they can continue to spend without constraint or accountability and the mean old Republicans are saying no! So,Yes! , Get out there and tell Your congressman You want him to vote to put Your Grandchildren more into debt with nothing to show for it!, It's the progressive way!

"They want us to raise the debt ceiling by a measly couple of trillion dollars to pay the bills they have already amassed, AND, raise more taxes so they can continue to spend without constraint or accountability and the mean old Republicans are saying no!"

WELL SAID. This is why I listened to Obama and called my Congressman. I said "I STAND WITH Boehner. I am very proud that he leads the House of Representatives. " My future grandchildren will be happy about it too.

J.D. Still --

Based on the premise that many conservatives don't watch the president when he speaks, we can eliminate them from those calling in. Conservatives who did watch the speech may have noted the president's instructions: If you don't think "compromise" is a dirty word, and if you believe we need a balanced approach in solving our debt problem, contact your representatives. If anyone was calling to say they want a default or "my way or the highway" obstructionism, it would be a small number.

If Teabaggers have their way, your grandchildren will have nothing, no infrastructure, no education, no jobs except flipping burgers, they won't even be able to pump gas because there won't be any. This great nation cannot be great with the Tea Bag vision of small things, we're broke, let China take over mentality.

Nero (Obama) watches while Rome (America) burns. That was his plan all along. His sheeple are making smores. They want more free marshmellows, more free chocolate. They don't care about the country and want it to go bankrupt with ever increasing debt.

When they get their wish, they will blame someone else, as usual, bit the majority will know that the wrong lit the match.

True Patriot

I will have to disagree with Your Premise, I believe of those watching at this time of year, the numbers were probably quite small,(regretfully so), and of those who were watching,(the politically active or interested from the left ,right, and center), it was probably fairly evenly split as is much of the nation. That being the case, I do not believe many,if any, minds were changed,and the calls that were made were from those whose positions have long since been solidified, basically an exercise in futility.

“…but just to place it in perspective let us look at just one night of the Democratic spending orgy the nation has been subjected to,13 Feb 2009, the Democratically controlled Congress , in the middle of the night passed an 800 billion dollar giveaway to their best buds and pals, with absolutely nothing ever being shown for it.”

J.D. Still

It’s posters like you, who start off appearing to possess some surface intelligence at least, who shock me most with their sudden descent into disgusting nonsense.

That “800 billion dollar giveaway to their best buds and pals,” as you know, was the stimulus bill (known by grownups as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act 2009), and their “best buds and pals” turns out to be the American people.

Bush & company charged tax breaks for the rich (two of them), corporate welfare for their buds and pals in Big Pharma, and two wars to the nation’s credit card, but Obama $800 billion “giveaway” went to put some gas in the government’s economic engine that you Republicans left on empty, and to bring us back from the brink of national bankruptcy. (And YES, it did work – it saved or created 2 million jobs; it just wasn’t enough – thanks, again, to Republicans.)

That money went to the “little people” in the form of tax breaks (an extra $1000 in middle-class paychecks), it went to unemployment (for the 6 million jobs Republicans destroyed), and it went to the states, so they didn’t have to lay off teachers and firefighters. Every dollar entering the economy from that level has the stimulative effect of $3.

So J.D., tell me. Were you tying to insinuate the working stiffs in America who benefited from the stimulus - the middle-class who’ve lived through the transfer of $4 trillion in their wealth to the top 2% of the wealthiest Americans in this country – are all black?

And, Leona, if you really care about your grandkids, don’t fall for the lies from the guys schilling for the top 2% of the country’s most wealthy corporatists, that have more wealth than the bottom 98% combined, and won’t be happy until they’ve taken all your money and left you to die on the side of the road in your old age, and destroyed your grandchildren’s chances of getting a good education and making a decent living for themselves.

They are not your friend (unless you are a corporate CEO, and somehow I'm doubting that). This is NOT your father's Republican Party.

Their only goal for the country is to destroy democracy and turn the country into a fascist state (corporations as government…think about that, Leona. How high do you think you’re health insurance premium will be? How clean will you air and water be? How safe will your food and drugs be?)

Their only goal for the country is to keep the girls/women barefoot and pregnant their whole lives, out of the workforce and subservient to men, and the young men docile and stupid, unquestioning of authority, and not knowing about, or challenging them on any of that newfangled stuff the rest of the whole world is into – like science and technology.

It’s the naïve, witless people like you that fall prey so easy to their evil that makes me hate their guts. They’re nothing but heartless, evil jackals who think nothing of ruining this great country purely for personal fun and profit.

Elle

Where to even begin? I know,Why don't We begin with facts,(although facts can be nasty things and do interfere with even the best of rants),The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 or ARRA, for short, (I can understand why You "Adults" on the left would rather not refer to it as "stimulus", too embarrassing), was passed with the promise that if it were to be inacted unemployment would NEVER go above 8 percent and by July of 2011 it would have fallen to below 7 percent, oops!, why that's now!and the unemployment rate is..... 9.2percent,(that is, if you don't count a couple of million"little"people who have given up and stopped looking for work, but that's O.K.,right Elle, they were probably just Republicans anyway), without utilizing this little progressive lie the rate would be closer to 16 percent,(but,don't worry ,We wont tell anybody),Now, as for the 2 million jobs" saved or created", I really can't believe you are still clinging to that fantasy in the stark face of reality! When economist have done actual, factual, reviews of the program to date, it has been shown to have forestalled or destroyed more than one million net private sector jobs,(if it makes You feel better , it did "save" 450 thousand government jobs,(just don't think about government being a consumer of resources, not a producer, that will ruin the buzz),Yup, Reinvestment and Recovery, mmmm!, mmmm!, mmmmm! Just for fun, lets take a look at some of this "Reinvestment and Recovery" spending shall we?

650 million dollars for digital T.V. Coupons

600 million dollars for new cars for the Federal Government

136 BILLION Dollars for 32 new Federal Programs,(Remember,consumption,not production)

4.2BILLION Dollars for Community Organizing,(Hmmmmmmm?)

83 BILLION Dollars for earned income tax credit payments for people who paid no taxes

20 BILLION Dollars for Food stamps

400 million dollars for global warming research,(hello Al Gore!)

53 BILLION dollars for "Miscellaneous" energy and environmental programs,(that's a lot of miscellaneous!

and last but certainly least, 30 Billion dollars for infrastructure spending which was, unfortunately found to be not as "shovel ready" as touted.

and when You figure it all up , the 757 billion dollars plus the 350 billion dollars of interest We are going to have to pay, it will only have cost us a cool 1.137 TRILLION dollars with nothing tangible to show for it! Not bad for one nights work at the destruction of Our capitalist economic system, because , have no doubt, the purpose of this bill was never intended to "stimulate" anything, except the size and scope of government, and to empower the socialist progressives and make the citizens more, not less, dependent on them and their vision of a nanny state.(and finally, to You Elle,I have taken the time and trouble to respond to your, oh so well written and ever so informative post, something that I would not normally do ,for insults and derision do not make people think You are stronger, tougher, or more intelligent,nor do they add anything to the strength of Your arguments, quite to the contrary,(in the real world, it's just a keyboard, not an assault weapon, You really need to stay away from the video games), but Your passion is commendable, so I would suggest,in the future, if You try to present your arguments in a more rational manner, with more facts,(which can be debated) and less extraneous rhetoric,(which can not be debated ) ,You might find Yourself being taken more seriously.

Hi, J.D.!

Housekeeping first. I’m a writer (“off duty” on fun forums like this, but the tools come in handy), so I do occasionally use the keyboard as a weapon, especially if I run into a smug bigot that needs some of his filth shoved back down his throat. You sound like I stuffed you pretty good; calm down, swallow hard. You’ll live...lol.

I copied your post and threw it into a blank word doc and took out all the ad hominem attacks. There wasn’t much substance left, but since you made the effort....

The “promise” about the "stimulus bills and the unemployment rate" was debunked as false by PolitiFact’s Truth-O-Meter. (I have no privileges to post links, but if you google “The stimulus bill promised to keep unemployment under 8% like I did, you’ll find it.)

A reliable source (Factcheck.org) concludes the following about the stimulus bill and saving/creating jobs:

“The truth is that the stimulus increased employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million people, compared with what employment would have been otherwise. That’s according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.”

I rounded it off at 2mm.

One of the fun things about economics is you can always find one who’ll support the conclusion you want; the key to fact finding is locating independent source and looking for consensus. There are hundreds of other sites out here corroborating my info, you just have to pull your head out of Limbaugh’s crotch long enough to look for them. (Sorry, that’s as punishing as I’ll get in this one; you’re much too easy a target.)

Your “job destruction” hypothesis is a “context” shift that is nothing but a cheap trick, the kind Republicans stay up late every night concocting (and folks like me get tired of deconstructing). I can point to a spot at 1 pm and say “see the bird,” and you can look at the spot at 2 pm and tell me the bird doesn’t exist. You would be right, of course, from your “context,” but that doesn’t make your observation the truth. (And the lame attempt to deny the bird’s existence is just pathetic.)

As “cheap” as most of the right’s thinking is, your perception of government jobs as a resource “consumer” and not a “producer” is quaint in a way that reveals a sad lack of imagination and integrative thinking skill.

Government plays both rolls. As “consumer” it’s the country’s largest employer (2.8 million (2009) w/payroll of $15 billion excluding the military). State/local governments employed 5.3 million with a payroll of roughly 19 billion.

As “producer,” the government is a purchaser of goods and services from private employers to the tune of some $2.7 trillion (2010). In addition, government expenditures are directly responsible for spawning millions of jobs in the private sector. And the Fed’s expenditures for pensions, welfare and interest provide an indirect stimulus, offsetting some of the counter-stimulus tax burden.

It’s late, I need my beauty sleep...bit I'll be back tomorrow night with the concluson. (I skimmed over your lies [I mean list...lol] and it looks like a lot of fun. I can't wait!) Sleep tight.

Hello Elle

Wake up tough girl!, time to go to school. A writer eh? Impressive. As for myself, I am no one of consequence, just a simple citizen, engaging in a free and open exchange of ideas along the information superhighway, but speaking of information, I do hope You plan to use more persuasive sources than the CBO, (garbage in/garbage out),Politifact, stepchild of the St.Petersburg Pravda,(er, I mean Times,Pravda is just what We affectionately refer to it as down here because of it's decidedly leftward lean),and Factcheck.org,(really? the same Factcheck.org that is funded by the Annenberg Foundation, funder of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge,founded by William"I am a radical Leftist,small 'c' Communist" Ayers, and of which non other than Barack Obama Himself sat on the Founding Board of Directors, THAT factcheck.org?), You will have to excuse my skepticism, but when Your Sources are also listed in the 100 top Progressive Liberal websites,ahead of The Center For American Progress, The Urban League,The Brookings Institute,Michael Moore,The World Socialist Website AND the Democratic Party! Well, lets just say, I think You can,and will, have to do better than that on Your sources. As to Your economic views I assume You to be Keynesian, that figures,well, basically where You define government as a producer, I would say they are ,at best, a redistributer of the wealth created by others, the problem being, because they,the government, are not constrained by the normal rules of profit and loss by which every other "producer" has to operate,(all they have to do is confiscate more wealth), it inevitably leads to trillions of dollars of debt, and increased demands for more revenue,from an out of control and spending addicted political body upon the populace.Now, There are some, I being one, who are suspicious of this as being a deliberate attempt to implement the Cloward and Piven Strategy,( Two Radical Leftist Professors who theorized that the Capitalist System in the United States could be forced to collapse by excessive spending demands,and then to be replaced with a socialist workers paradise,where everyone is equal, Kumbaiyah!) I admit,I do belong to the duck school on this , if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, You are going to have to prove to me that it is not a duck!There are just too many radicals,communist, and Maoist, associated with this present administration, for it to be dismissed as coincidence.Well, that should be enough to get Your blood flowing,(and You only tried to insult me once! marked improvement, but do keep working on those facts, I shall be waiting with baited breath for Your response).

J.D.

Hi,

You know, I originally was going to “digest” this for you, but I won’t (it’s late and I do have a life..lol). Besides my time constraints, I think there’s an object lesson here you need to learn. You can swallow someone’s glib (maybe even humorous-sounding) take on an issue, believe a fallacious fact, no questions asked, and make a total fool out of yourself

This “tv coupon issue” originates in the your corporatists’ decision to sell off the TV broadcast spectrum (I used to work in television, so over-the-air broadcasting is also in my blood), driving TV to cable, and re-licensing the broadcast spectrum to the cell phone industry.

The problem with switching over-the-air (antenna) television to digital (cable) in 2005, was a nation of 111.1 million households, nowhere near prepared to switch to digital. For it to happen – for Americans to still get their soap operas – and the commercials that go with them – the news – and the commercials that go with them – National/American League Football, NCAA Basketball, Baseball, and the commercials that go with them, for Americans’ lives to not be completely disrupted by being abruptly cut off from television – and all the commercials that go with them, the Federal Government took it upon itself to finance the nation’s conversion from an analog to digital world (to facilitate the capitalists’ profits).

I’ll leave it to you to READ and discover for yourself how $650 million dollars for digital TV Coupons wound up in the stimulus package (actually only $490m of the $650m was for the TV Coupons). The bottom line, is Bush had already committed the government to fund the conversion, and due to some FUBAR activity, additional funds needed to be appropriated, and they were – for convenience sake – the way things get attached to totally unrelated bills -simply included in the stimulus bill.

Your insinuation that this was a “dumb” decision to “waste” your tax dollars on “TV Coupons,” made by a black Democratic president is simply offensive, J.D., and I suspect as I get to the rest of your list, they will bev revealed to be as unsubstianted.

Tomorrow, I’ll likely begin with a lecture on sites ranking “liberal” websites (to keep you away from places where you might accidentally stumble over some truth ???? gasp!!..lol), and your seeming cluelessness about government’s function, particularly their “producer” role in replacing the gas (money) in a country’s economic engine when one party has destroyed 6 million jobs and destroyed the economy (i.e., “stimulus,”), and nearly driven it into the ditch of bankruptcy…different I might add from deficit spending for two (2) tax breaks for the rich, corporate welfare for Big Pharma (Med Part D), and two elective wars (one, during which, $4 billion dollars disappeared, that’s never been accounted for). And you think Democrats are irresponsible?

Till tomorrow!

“650 million dollars for digital T.V. Coupons”

Digital Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 is a United States Congress legislation enacted on October 20, 2005 (ED NOTE: WHO WAS PRESIDENT IN 2005?). This act deals with the cessation of the broadcasting of analog television and the subsequent implementation of digital television. This transition took place on June 12, 2009, which was previously scheduled for February 17, 2009^. (ED NOTE: WHO BECAME PRESIDENT IN NOV. 2008?)

Section 3005 of the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 ...also provided one and a half billion dollars (ED NOTE: THAT’S $1,500,000,000 DOLLARS. YOUR $650 M WAS ADDED TO THAT, BRINGING TOTAL COST TO $1.83 BILLION) for the Digital Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 and defined in detail what comprised a coupon-eligible converter box for Digital Television broadcasts in the United States.

Digital-analog converter box coupon program

Each American household was able to request up to two coupons worth $40 to facilitate the purchase of digital-analog converter boxes These requests for coupons could be submitted between the dates January 1, 2008 and March 31, 2009, inclusive.

With $1.5 billion in funding, the coupons would account for only half of the 73 million analog TVs not using a pay service, including 18 million in homes having only over-the-air TV reception. The Commerce Department had no plans to make coupons available only to the poor.

The NTIA set the standards for the converter box based on what manufacturers and broadcasters wanted. LG Electronics, Thomson, Samsung, and Jasco were the first companies to announce plans to make the devices. After June 1, 2007, retailers could apply to sell converter boxes. Each would have to be in the NTIA's Central Contractor Registration database, and have been in the consumer-electronics business for at least a year.

To implement the coupon program, the Act authorized NTIA to use up to $990 million from the fund, including $100 million for program administration. Those funds supported an initial "non-contingent" program that was available to all requesting households. NTIA was also authorized to spend up to $1.5 billion for the program (including $160 million for administration) if the initial $990 million were insufficient to fulfill the non-contingent coupon requests. In that case, a "contingent" fund would be available for US households not serviced by cable or satellite. If the funds were insufficient, the Committee on Energy and Commerce of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate would be notified.

An initial funding of $990 million was expected to allow all US households an opportunity to apply for the coupons, which expired 90 days after they were mailed. After that money was used up, $510 million in additional funds was available to households that stated they did not already subscribe to cable or satellite television services. Neither allotment had a means test.

The NTIA p

con't - page 2

The NTIA planned to start processing coupon requests a year before the original transition date of February 17, 2009; 2.4 million people had applied for 4.7 million coupons, out of an estimated 13 million homes that still received television with an antenna.

By the end of 2008, the New York Times said "about 40 million coupons have been requested, but to date 16 million have been redeemed, compared with an estimated 35 million televisions that will lose a signal Institutions, such as retirement homes, were initially excluded from the program; while this was partially remedied (to allow one coupon per retirement-home resident),^{[citation needed]} prisons^, homeless shelters and residential hotels remained disqualified from the coupon program.

On January 4, 2009, the NTIA began placing coupon requests on a waiting list after the program reached its maximum allowed funding. Only after unredeemed coupons expire could new requests be fulfilled.By January 7, NTIA's waiting list included just under a million requested coupons. A week later, the list had grown to two million coupons.

On January 7, both Consumers Union and Representative Ed Markey of Massachusetts (who headed the U.S. House Energy and Commerce Committee’s telecom subcommittee) advocated that the February 17, 2009 analog shutoff date be postponed, due to the lack of coupons and NTIA's inability to handle the expected public enquiries.On January 8, President-Elect Barack Obama's transition team contacted key legislators to express support for a delay, largely because of problems funding coupons for converters. The delay passed early in February.

DTV Delay Act (ED NOTE: THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART)

The DTV Delay Act, signed into law on February 11, 2009, extended the digital transition deadline to June 12, 2009. The DTV Delay Act did not address the shortfall in funding for converter-box coupons; the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, part of a larger appropriations bill signed into law on February 17, 2009, added $650 million in funding—$490 million of that for coupons, increasing the total coupon-fund expenditure to $1.83 billion.By February 18, 36 percent of the United States's full-power stations had transitioned to digital-only, but five million of the nation's 115 million households remained entirely unready;at the time, 4.3 million coupon requests remained on the NTIA waiting list.The NTIA resumed issuing coupons in early March 2009, expecting to clear its backlog in two and a half weeks. Political issues had contributed to the delays in sending out coupons; the NTIA could not issue coupons above the spending limit set in the bill, even knowing that many already-issued coupons would expire.Even though unused coupons meant more money for the program, the coupons had to actually expire before the money could be "reused" for newly-issued coupons.Those coupons it did send out were sent via standard mail, rather than first-class mail, as Congress had required in the legislation, but that caused coupons to be delayed up to four weeks.

The NTIA was legally required to issue coupons on a first-come, first-served basis; viewers in markets where individual stations ended analog broadcasts by the original deadline did not receive priority handling of their DTV coupon requests.

On March 24, 2009, the NTIA announced that the four-million-person waiting-list backlog had been cleared, meaning those whose coupons had expired could reapply. The NTIA estimated 17 million coupons had expired, while 25.7 million—56 percent of those issued—had been used. On April 12, Nielsen estimated that 3.6 million households remained unready.

Completing the transition

The analog shutdown for full-power TV stations was completed in mid-2009, with several stations ending analog transmissions well before the June 12, 2009 deadline. (Many transitioned on the original February 17 date.) In most cases, at least one station in each media market continued analog broadcasts for up to 30 days afterward as an "analog nightlight"—prohibited from broadcasting regular programming, but allowed to transmit information on how to obtain and connect a converter box to receive digital programming (and send Emergency Alert System broadcasts.). This allowed viewers who had not converted by the deadline to receive at least one channel that would explain the absence of the other analog channels. The half-hour public service announcement with English and Spanish segments seen on most such stations was produced by the National Association of Broadcasters.^{[citation needed]}

Nielsen said 2.5 million homes were still incapable of receiving a digital signal two days after the deadline On June 17, 2009, the NTIA said two million requested coupons had not yet been mailed.

The NTIA reported that, as of July 22, 2009, 33,578,000 coupons had been used—more than the 33.5 million possible with the original $1.34 billion allocation. $435 million of the extra money added was already owed for pending requests.

U.S. Representative Peter DeFazio and Senator Bernie Sanders introduced legislation which would have extended the converter-box coupon program beyond July 31, 2009, subsidized antennas, and require satellite and cable TV companies to provide a $10 basic-broadcast-channel package available to those who had lost the ability to receive at least one over-the-air channel because of the transition.^[61]

cont'd - page 3

Neither Congressman's bill was passed into law.

At midnight on July 31, 2009, the CECB program expired, without extension.^{[citation needed]} Toward the end of July, consumers were making 35,000 requests for coupons per day, with just over half those issued being used. On July 30, though, the number of requests totalled 78,000, and on the final day, 169,000 were received. Requests sent via mail with a postmark of July 31 or earlier were processed; about $300 million in funding remained. By August 5, 2009, consumers had used 33,962,696 coupons.

The NTIA said 4,287,379 coupons had been requested but not redeemed. As of August 12, $310,796,690 was available, and if all requested coupons were redeemed, $139,300,174 would be left.

An unidentified NTIA source said the agency returned $241.6 million to the Treasury Department; $2.6 million went to "final closeout costs". After the program ended, $250 million from the original bill had not been used, and the additional $490 million allocated in February 2009 had not been touched. These funds almost equalled the $490 million Congress had appropriated to boost the program in January 2008, when it appeared the program would run out of money. The additional funding was needed to satisfy the accounting rules imposed on the program by Congress, rather than an actual need for the funds.The unused funds from the original bill went to a DTV public safety fund, as required in the legislation

Good Evening Elle!

Good info on the coupons, but that was not really my point, the Coupons were a symptom , not the disease itself. When the nation switched from radios to television, there were no coupons, When we switched from land lines to cell phones, no coupons there, We are being conditioned for dependence, that We need the government, poor little Us can't do it on Our Own, and the sad part is many people are starting to believe that, but good info just the same.

bilweeler,

I share your cynicism. It hit me this weekend like a bolt out of the blue, that Wall Street is the only audience the politicians care about, not the voters. Our only hope is if in their tiny, tiny hearts, the hedge fund managers feel the faintest beat of patriotism and put the country's econonomic health ahead of their own greed. Otherwise, the US will go the way of Russia, with a thin band of the wealthy living above a huge working class.

Hold onto your dreams, Amy..."In God We Trust" is printed on their true belief.

The thin band of wealthy is your only retirement plan, right Amy?

You chose not to plan and now you are hosed. Relying on entitlements is a terrible idea, yet here you are.

See dear it is those wealthy that fund so very much of those entitlements. The richest 1%, those that make over $388,806 paid 39.9% of all individual revenues collected. Add in those making more than $200,000 per year and you get all the way up to 62% of receipts.

See Amy those evil rich people - the 1%- ers earn 22% of the income, yet pay 39.9% of the taxes. Now what's all this crap about "fair share?" perhaps you don't know what that term means? Or maybe its all about perception?

So Amy you are welcome. You too Noid and all else who have insufficient 401k, pensions or other retirement plans. Just happy to be paying so much more of MY fair share.

But if you think you are going to means test my entitlements on top of it all, you got another thing coming.

Medicare and the Rx plan are already "means tested". Those whose incomes are higher, pay higher monthly premiums.

If things go the Agent Orange aka the Bonehead and his Boy Blunder Eric the Red would like them to go most people will fighting for those high paying "Greeter" positions at Walmart. If they aren't downsized too!

@ Spanky Why do all you tea partyers want to say the top 1% of income earners pay the lions share of the taxes collected? It is not true and you can't use real GAO figures to prove it is. The top 1% of income earners do not pay taxes they have so many loopholes and give mes as well as off shore and haven accounts to shelter their wealth in that they don't pay one red cent. The answer to a ballanced budget is not a graduated tax bracket with miriads of deductions for the rich, but a flat single layer tax with no deductions for incomes. Businesses is however anothe story. Flat tax with minimal deductions for actual cost of the busniess. Labor, Shipping cost, materials to make their product and business supplies to run the business.

Sorry bro - my figures come straight from the government. It is a fact that in '06 the top 1% paid in 39.9 percent, which is a lot of red cents.

Or maybe all that revenue comes from unicorns and faries, cause it sure does not come fromt he hard working middle class. They just don't earn enough.

Now listen I am a huge fan of a flat tax. Too bad it'll never happen - it takes allthe control from the government, and we just cannot have that, now can we.

All those "loopholes" where written in by Dems and reps. Blame Rangel et. al.

billweeler- well said! Somebody Please tell me why nobody in the media is bringing to light the fact that all these "public servants" who are willing to slash and burn the safety nets of millions have their own golden parachutes and gold plated medical plans which will not be affected. Not to mention their off-shore bank accounts provided by the lobbyists. Come on, Media- ask the tough questions. We need answers.

2006? uh.....spanky, honey, it's 2011.

Well Sally here is a more recent article if you like. Still shows directionally the same thing.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/who-pays-most-income-tax.htm

Sally: 2006? uh.....spanky, honey, it's 2011.

Obama thinks it's 2008.

Source: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/05/obama-britain-gaffe-queen-elizabeth.html

Social Security, Unemployment, and Medicare bring in 40% of the government's revenues. Those same programs are responsible for 38.1 of the government spending. Go to Factcheck.org and read Fiscal Fact Check.

It is not the wealthy who are paying the most for those programs. The wealthy only pay Social Security taxes on the first $106,000 of their income. The rest is not subject to Social Security taxes.

Nice try ksw and jas. (Actually it wasn't a nice try, pretty lame is more like it) Maybe you geniuses didn't know but government entities such as the IRS don't have .com addresses. How about the two of you bop on over to the official IRS site and get some real numbers and not the ones you hunted all day to find to match your blather

Spanky, You're wrong. The wealthy get so many tax breaks that they actually pay an average of 19% of their income which is well below what a lot of Americans pay. Also the 2001 tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations have resulted in a $2.8 trillion revenue loss between 2002 and 2011. Finally, I have paid thousands of my dollars in taxes for Medicare and Social Security and now the radical ideologues in Congress are going to try to end that. In other words, they are going to waste my money--and yours! It is the refusal of anyone in Washington to raise revenue that will deepen the debt crisis. Discretionary spending is a relatively small part of the federal budget. Cuts alone won't..well, cut it!

my figures come straight from the government

I think I found your problem...

Hey Brian, haven't you been paying attention?

Republicans offered the same deal over and over and Reid and Obama kept changing every time they came close to an agreement.

And if you had been actually WATCHING you would have seen that NO DEMOCRAT has offered a single thing until all of a sudden Harry Reid pulled something out of his butt yesterday and waved it around and convinced people like you how good it smelled.

Republicans are the ONLY ones that have offered up a budget in over two years. Republicans are the ONLY ones that have offered up any kind of debt ceiling answer in the past six months while Democrats have done absolutley NOTHING!

CherylLM -- haven't you been paying attention? The word is COMPROMISE. When one side offers a deal, there are negotiations, changes and compromise to the original proposal. A person selling a house has a suggested price, a counter offer is made, there are negotiations, money added or knocked off according to details of the sale. The Republicans are the majority in the House, which is where the budget is supposed to begin, so they should be the party proposing a budget.

Cheryl.... who's not paying attention? The republicans have blinded you!

kate - your refer to a budget. Do you actually think there is one?

How do you compromise with dems when they refuse to produce a budget, or the Obama, since he has neither a plan, or specifics for a solution?

It's called negotiating against yourself, which is always a bad idea, especially in you house purchase analogy.

Brian, you're spot on. I emailed my congressman last night and told him to get off his dead ass and use a balanced approach, cuts and revenues. Repubs only want to bring down the president, they're not interested in the countrys problems. By the way, I thought the 2010 elections were about jobs and the economy but somehow these fools think it was only about the debt. This debt ceiling crisis is made up, pure and simple.

I think the president should hold strong and use the 14th Amendment if necessary to solve this. As far as I'm concerned he's given up too much already. It's time to dig in. Besides, the other side is never going to work with him anyway so he might as well go for it.

Haven't you heard anything from the credit agencies that says that the US has to put in place a vable debt reduciton pathway ahead or just raising how much we borrow will still result in our credit rating beng downgraded. The Republicans have the right focus! The Democrats justwant more money so they can kick the can furhter down the road before they have to acknowledge that we spend too much!!!!

The only focus I see the republicans have is never raising taxes on the richest again.

They want to keep adding tax cuts to the debt and cut programs for education, poor, food all so they can bow down to Norquist who stated goal is to destroy America.

All the republican plans to balance our budget includes cutting social security, medicare and medicaid. The reason why they do not like Ried's plan even though it offered more cuts that Boner's plan is that it took social security, medicare and medicaid off the table.

So you are a senior, think we should cut senior programs so that the rich never have to pay more taxes?

Both parties are spending to much. That is all they know how to do. That and TAX, the republicans tax, and give the money to the rich and the democrats TAX and give it to a segament of society that creates leaches and a welfare state. Social Security and Medicar are not entitlement programs but programs bought and paid for by the workers for their retirement. However welfare, food stampe low income housing, rent subsidies ADC, Supplimental Security Income are all give me entitlement programs. I am not proposing a stopage of the programs but they need to be controlled better and those who are getting benefits fraudently need to be removed. Also fraud by the private sector against the government needs to be vigorously investigated and prosecuted. It is not fair to put the entire nation in jeopardy so you can sit in your paid for house or apartment and pop out kids for more money or buy drugs with government money, because you are to lazy to work.

Yes, I am a senior and support any reasonable change to the big three entitlement programs that I would have gladly dropped out of paying into or benefitting from years ago... and I am still working and paying into these paycheck moneypits and have not even started collecting on any of these prorgams yet!!!! Reasonable people can consider reasonable changes, but demagouges only keep supporting bloaded programs that have outlived their original intent! Everyone who keep ssyanig that the Republicans are trying to abolish all of these programs simply miss the point that they are trying to adapt these prorgams to current reality and the very extended lifespan realtiies of the American people, but they cannot even get one Democrat to come to the table to even look at changes needed. Sad!

Fed up Senior- great point! Somebody Please tell me why nobody in the media is bringing to light the fact that all these "public servants" who are willing to slash and burn the safety nets of millions have their own golden parachutes and gold plated medical plans which will not be affected. Not to mention their off-shore bank accounts provided by the lobbyists. Come on, Media- ask the tough questions. We need answers.

Government was fine until they warped the housing market; creating a financial collapse. That's what happens when government gets entangled in "wealth creation" and "individualism." The facts clearly demonstrate that citizens of ALL income levels are not only greedy but terrible money managers. Our government reflects the same short-comings. They should have revised the tax code and reduced taxes before they created a budget. The best they could do still leaves trillions of dollars in budget deficits and increased national debt. What a motley crew of morons!!!

I don't want to be around when Americans wake-up and realize they themselves are the problem.

Hold on there cowboy,

Government was not fine until the housing collapse. You can not give Trillions dollars of tax cuts while you are spending Trillions dollars on wars.

Had our debt hole not been so large due to the republican spending and we weren't in a war of choice we could have fared much better through the housing collapse.

You keep telling yourself the government was just fine and let us know when you wake up.

AF - nice try...why are so many folks losing their homes, are upside-down on their mortgages, and banks aren't willing to lend to consumers?

Do you really think we would have the same level of unemployment if the financial collapse didn't happen?

Brian-you are so right. I think the entire country, including registered republicans who are not wealthy, are sick of the politics to save jobs for congress and screws the average guy.

Points deducted for failure to use "job creator" in your rant.

Points also deducted for using "raising taxes" in your rant.

Neither of the proposals now under consideration include any revenue changes.

Tens years of the lowest tax rates in 60 years and ten years of flat job growth. These are facts.

So I guess if we cut the tax rate in half then we will double the job growth. We'll 2x0 is still ZERO!

Bush's tax cuts and two unpaid wars are the reason we need to raise this ceiling in the first place. The two decades preceding Bush had 20% job growth. Bush's policies brought a screeching halt to that so now were supposed to continue those policies?

Try researching and then using some actual fact's in your rant.

brian is Bush the reason you ended up with a lobotomy

Brian, points deducted for forgetting to mention Obama Care and the Stimulus Package.

Cheryl, the New York Times had an article the other day about the pork barrel spending of new Tea Party Republicans. Apparently, Teapublicans brag about projects like adding sand to beaches when they are in office, and criticize it when they are out.

Have you forgotten Cantor and Boehner recently voted for an alternative engine, the Air Force emphatically didn't need or want , but which they supported because it was built in their districts?

I was watching Maria Bartiromo on Sunday interview a stock market expert who was beaming over profits Wall Street is raking in. He kept saying "it doesn't get much better than this." He and Maria agreed that jobs creation is on hold until Wall Street is "confident" about what new financial regulations will entail. I took that mean job creation is being held hostage until Wall Street gets what it wants for tax loop hole protection and regulations are eased.

Save your tears for billionaires, they are doing just fine, it's the rest of the country you should be worried about. The gap between incomes for the wealthiest and the "mere" middleclass have never been wider.

Jim,

Intelligent reply! Really added a lot to the debate!

Amy,

Most don't have any problems raising revenue, the problem is the spending. Social Security and Medicare will be gone in 10 years...thats a problem.

CherylM - It's my hope that the first person to have their Social Security and Medicare taken away is YOU. Keep asking for those cuts honey and we'll keep telling to come to you first for the blood.

JFK,

Ah yes, the stimulus package that everyone agreed was needed to put out the fire that deregulation of the financial markets created. The republican response to this always baffles me. "Why did you put it out? We started that fire and we wanted to watch it burn!"

Neither of the proposals now under consideration include any revenue changes

But, but, but, Obama said he's never sign a bill without tax increases!

How can anyone trust what Obama says?

The president called on lawmakers to "leave their ultimatums at the door," but he stuck to his — that any deal must include new tax revenue. "We need to take on spending in the tax code, spending on certain tax breaks and deductions for the wealthiest of Americans," Obama said. The White House is proposing about $400 billion in increased tax revenues.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=14002280&page=2

Laurie, Social Security and Medicare will still be paid. Pay attention and quit watching MSNBC. By the way, 66% of Americans support Cut, Cap and Balance. Why doesn't the President?

JoAnnna, We trust him because he was not stupid enough to sign a pledge.

ok brian how does blaming Bush for everything horrible with your life add to the debate

By the way, 66% of Americans support Cut, Cap and Balance

Link please?

Cheryl, no one is asking for a tax rate hike. We are asking that the loopholes be stopped. Why is it ok for Corporations be allowed to get a tax break for their Corporate jets? Why is it ok for GE to pay NO taxes. YES we do have a spending problem and YES we do need additional reveues. Do you not understand that we must raise the debt ceiling to pay for debts already incurred? It is insanity not to pay those debts. It is not fiscal responsibility in any way shape or fashion. I contacted the Congressman in my district and even though he is a Republican, I urged him to stand with the President and not with the Tea Party. In case you haven't been following the polls over 63% of Americans want the debt ceiling raised. The Tea Party is a minority and I hope and pray that more Americans will realize that we must take away their influence. The TP makes up only about 28% of the GOP. This Country is supposed to be "the majority rules", not the minority. I urge all Americans to take our Country back from the radical, extremisim of the TP in 2012.

Brian: JoAnnna, We trust him because he was not stupid enough to sign a pledge.

So you're okay with Obama not including new taxes in any debt ceiling agreement? You must have been ecstatic in Dec/2010 when Obama let the Bush tax cuts expire and he signed a 2-year Obama tax cut bill that looked quite similar to the Bush tax bill. This after he demagogued the Bush tax bill for years. "Changing circumstances" I guess.

Are you sure Obama hasn't signed a No Tax pledge? He sure has not demonstrated otherwise.

. pdf

Cheryl, you should read the article on MSN Money about the "10 CEOs Who Became Job Killers"

http://money.msn.com/investing/ceos-who-became-job-killers-thestreet.aspx?cp-documentid=6834878&GT1=33002

These guys cut hundreds of thousands of jobs while sitting pretty with multi-million dollar compensation packages for themselves. So where are the great job creators hiding out? It sounds impressive to say they pay 70% of the taxes, but they hold 90% of the wealth.

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03may/may03interviewswolff.html

@ JoAnna:

President Obama also said he would never sign an HCR bill without a public option. It does, admittedly, get harder and harder to believe him, but he plainly referred to revenue increases last night, which I took as a re-avowal of the promise to let the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012.

Even if he IS lying about it, however, tell me how that make the Reid plan different from the Republican plans, except that the ordinary citizen can understand it and it won't raise the same potential for rocking the financial markets from now until November next year?

Jim Bletso - Who do you think your fooling? Dam you, Geo Bush, get off the vine and pollute something else. Thankfully not our country anymore, what's left of it after your ruinous administration of its destruction.

AM: President Obama also said he would never sign an HCR bill without a public option. It does, admittedly, get harder and harder to believe him, but he plainly referred to revenue increases last night, which I took as a re-avowal of the promise to let the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012.

Well here's some deja vu for you. From a 2010 MarketWatch article:

Obama wants tax breaks proposed by President George W. Bush to expire this year [2010]. His budget would eliminate tax breaks on those making more than $250,000 a year, a move almost certain to be opposed by Republicans and perhaps some Democrats as the economy crawls out of the recession.

Source: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-budget-lets-bush-tax-cuts-expire-2010-02-01

You want to keep believing what Obama says AM, then do so at your own peril.

Um bilweeler - you need to tell Obama about the no taxes thing-y, cause I heard him say that taxes need to be raised - you know the whole "balanced approach."

Are you troubled that he has no clue that even Reid has sided with the reps on this issue? Reid's super smart, no?

AM - seems the easiest way is for Harry Reid to gotr get 5 more votes and pass Cut, Cap and Balance. You know if the world really is about to end and all.

But see they all know it won't.

Fiesty, its the latest CNN poll that they dont want to discuss. Its been pointed out to you and linked over the last week. Not the first time so I think your just being difficult at this point

Fiesty, its the latest CNN poll that they dont want to discuss.

Oh, I get it, the CNN poll of 1000 people NOW represent 66% of Americans?

Not hardly! LMAO!!

You have to LOVE life in ConservatiVille - land of the truly ignorant & home of the afraid!

Spanky: You know if the world really is about to end and all.

But see they all know it won't.

Dow now goes to -69. The Nassy has broken into positive ground. S&P is about even.

The rapture is definitely upon us.

Dow is now -52. Little rally going on.

Yeah, here comes the rapture. Be sure not to blink.

Dunkin Doughnuts is doing an IPO. Is that part of the rapture?

Brian, you can use any time periods to skew your results. Clinton lowered the capital gains rate and as a direct result increased government revenue to the highest its ever been. When Bush lowered tax rates, there was an immediate increase in government revenue over and above what would have been received if rates had stayed higher and job creation. If you include the time period of 2008 on in your data, you can get to where you obviously want to be. Whether Bush's policies contributed to the deficit, I wont debate you, whether Obama's have improved the deficit issue or exacerbated it, its pretty clear at this point that government policies have made it worse. But instead of blaming either, what can we do to make it better? Do you really believe that taking net cash flow earnings from the small businesses across this country that are the primary driver of jobs and punishing their success even more will improve the economy? Who cares about Buffet or Soros etc as they are but 2 people in this fight and taking a few tax dollars from them you are correct wont hurt them but wont make a difference in the deficit. So you are really going to take it from the working successful and do you really think that will improve the economy and add jobs?

Ursula, thats so misleading. CEOs all make lots of money but whether they cut jobs or not is a silly emotional trying to inflame passions. Cisco just announced it was going to do a 10% workforce reduction. John Chambers makes a ton of money. So 1) if some of their business lines are not doing well and losing money, he should keep these people? 2) if sales are slow in certain countries he should keep them? He has also created a 100,000 jobs by growing Cisco to one of the top companies in the world so what does he get credited for? Or what about the CEO that makes a ton of money but is sitting on a broken business model or outsources jobs overseas in order to improve its ability to compete with foreign competition so he doesnt have to go out of business in a couple of years. By outsourcing maybe he actually saved a ton of jobs. The nuances are too complicated to make silly emotional arguments like this. Its as bad as the person who cries about GE paying no taxes all the time. Give it up, as I thought the Greenies on this board wanted green energy credits which is why they paid no taxes and the losses from the financing division.

Fiesty, you really arent that stupid when it comes to statistics are you? It has nothing to do with the number of people but the sample. It also has to do with the way the question was asked. Instead of making fun of me or fiscal conservatives, why not focus where you should. All polls are samples and if appropriately random they can be illustrative and very informative of where views of large numbers of people are. You should have asked was the poll random and more importantly did they ask the question in the context of the current debate. It appears to me that you use polls to support your positions all the time and I would bet they are small samples. Use some critical thinking skills it would help your debating methods

JoAnna:

You want to keep believing what Obama says AM, then do so at your own peril.

If you intended that as deflection, then you're off your game.

I didn't say I want to keep believing him. My question for you was how, if he IS lying, the rest of the plan is any different from Republican plans, except it's more likely to divert another debt ceiling crisis in 6 months.

And, if it's not, then why don't you support it?

I think that's a legitimate question. Don't you?

Ah, more chick fighting good times.

So which one is wearing the leather and which the lingerie?

Wait, don't tell me, it's better this way. :)

Not my deal, Spanky, no matter how much you may get off on it.

Unless maybe you also want to get shirtless and wrestle in the mud with one of the many liberal boys out here.

I would pay to watch that. But not too much because I suspect it would be short-lived. ;-)

Kirk, there's been this argument out there regarding the 'uncertainty' businesses are dealings with due to the possibility of taxes going up through the closure of certain tax loopholes. So let's just look at those CEOs earning $100 million compared to an average middle-class worker earning $50K per year. The CEO earns 2000 times as much - and HE has uncertainty? Give me a break!

If gas prices go up $1, that's about $1500 or 3% of the middle-class worker's annual income - and that can really hurt a budget. But for the CEO it's just 0.000015% of his - doesn't even qualify as a sneeze. The CEO can easily afford to pay his fare share through the closure of tax loopholes.

Kirk after some guy proclaiming that 75% wanted the cut and crap bill and I went and looked it up. The number I saw was 47% a long way from 68% and 75%. I think 47% is high and would have liked to see how the poll was worded. That what makes the difference in polls, the wording.

Further down, 40% were against Obama being re-elected.

Further down yet they polled the current republican presidential crop running against our president and the president won ever match up.

I saw that while some are unhappy with Obama, they are not unhappy enough to elect another republican.

Those of you on the right have not been paying attention.

When Cantor walked out of the debt meetings a couple of weeks ago, the President said he would take the issue to the people.

That is just what he did last night. He laid out in very basic terms the complex issue facing the country. He cut through all of the smoke and mirrors to explain what is at stake and what our options are.

This was not, nor was it intended to be, a policy discussion. If you on the right had been able to listen without so much prejudice, you might actually have learned something.

Oh he took it fielden. And the people said - FEY.

And now Gallup has him at 43%, his lowest.

And we all are still waiting for his solution. Which of course is to punt until after the election.

Sorry, no dice.

We don't need to raise taxes or the debt ceiling. What we need to do is stop supporting the world with foreign aid and paying the UN the billions of dollars annually that we do. We also need to police all the entitlement programs. Prosecute fraud and unethical practices. Social Security and Medicare are not entitlement programs anymore than your company pension plan and health insurance which are paid for by you while you work. You pay social and medicare your entire working life just like company plans. Absolutely no difference. People work their whole adult life paying into these programs only to be held hostage by a bunch of corrupt politicians and a President who does not have a clue or leadership abilities to lead congress into a fair and just budget.

KIRK-bunch of random numbers:

You are spewing again!!! RNC rhetorical talking points = everyone is sick of the repetition.

SPANKY:

Way too easy: if our President successfully closes the loopholes and "tax expenditures" as he intends, we will have additional one-trillion dollars per year from current rates (by getting the "upper" eschelon of income producers to simply pay what they owe instead of avoiding.) I have the unbiased source for this information available, but Kirk-numbers gets all upset and confused whenever confronted with truth and facts that are at variance with RNC platform planks (& I suspect you do too.)

And now Gallup has him at 43%, his lowest.

and the poll on this site asking about the double news spots last night has Obama well ahead of Boehner 2 to 1 +.

JS1:

No response to your illogical rantings as we all know how hopeless you are.

This whole budget thing is a joke. The Great Divider of the administration continues to generate fear into the public, stirring up the seniors with the treat of no SS Checks, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Of course the phones were ringing, it is in his plan to create crisis, from which he thrives. From what l have read, the monthly nut it there, and will be paid. This is nothing more than posturing from the petulant child, demanding his ball so he can go home.

And we have the rest of the professional clowns, playing their game for power, rather than stopping the massive spending, 'investments' they have imposed on the taxpayers.

Now why isn't the leadership of both houses looking into the wasteful spending they created during the years? Welfare fraud, Medicare medication overpayments, and the list goes on. Tom Colburn published a list of his findings on wastefull gov spending. Why isn't anyone moving forward on this?

Now one plan calls for a committee to create more government investigation? What ever became of the Bowles-Simson study? Oh yes, the data didn't support Barry O and was thrown out as a tool for change.

Gotta love Barry though, he doesn't have a clue about anything other than spending and image.

By the way, did Barry O blame Bush during the speech, I did miss the opening?

Ursula, again you are using extreme examples to make your point. I am not defending a CEO's salary nor whether its appropriate. Thats a totally different issue than the layoffs. One is keeping the operating margins competitive with their competitors in order to be able to sell their product and keep everyone employed and the other is dealing with executive pay. I have no problem with asking our board of directors and making them more accountable for exorbitant pay. Also dont forget most of that CEO pay is in the form of stock options due to the law Clinton put in only allowing corporations to deduct executive pay that was performance based like stock options. In addition we are talking about a few hundred people and if you really are going to raise revenue its the private business owners, successful doctors, entertainers etc that will get hit and they already pay 45% of their income in tax. Is there anyone out there that really believes that raising taxes on this group will improve the economy and help with job growth?

As for loopholes lets close them all including child exemptions, mortgage deduction etc and make a fair simple progressive tax and its fair to everyone. I have no problem with that do you?

Americans First--we arent talking about approval polls. The latest CNN poll had a 66% in favor of the cut cap etc. By the way Gallup had Obama losing to Romney and any nameless republican candidate but winning against any named candidate but for Romney.

Stupid, again you have no credibility. I never disputed your source only that it wasnt relevant to the discussion. You are correct, that if we eliminate all loopholes including the mortgage deduction etc, it would bring in $1 trillion dollars at the current tax rates. There are no sane people in this world except socialists and anarchists who are advocating that position so its not relevant. Nobody thinks that taxing people an additional 1 trillion dollars that would come out of all of our pockets not just the rich wouldnt send us into a worse depression than the 30s. I have told you already that I am for eliminating all deductions and loopholes and making a simpler fairer progressive tax and that would raise revenue but I want all welfare gone from the tax code. You dont like that idea, as you like welfare thats just a difference between a fiscal conservative and your progressive idealogy. I am not mad at you for that, its just a difference in outlook and views.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

By the way, 66% of Americans support Cut, Cap and Balance

Link please?

It is actually 15% of the Tea Party support it, see ad 1+5=6 do it again and you get 6 put them together and they get 66,

Tea Party mind at work, an awsome thing.

Actually I saw where 80% support the taxes and want the gop to do it.

Tea Party mind at work, an awsome thing.

Dang it - so THAT's what I've been doing wrong! lol

Thanks for the tip, I'll make sure to use tea bagger math next time! ;o)

Maybe I can ask this question without getting pummelled but why do you guys refer to the Tea Party as Tea Baggers? I respect the parties position on fiscal conservative issues but have a big problem on the social conservatism that seems at time rampant in this upstart party. However, given the long progressive history with populist protests and successful legislative agenda from the populist side of things from Suffrage to war protests etc that you would respect what the Tea Party has accomplished. I dont understand the personal animosity for a group that has successfully put the fiscal issues on the table for this country to decide. If they are in the minority, its not like their agenda will be successful so it seems to me the personal attacks only make their positions stronger and more credible while the attacker looks like the immature no defensible position opposite. Everytime I see a post that uses the word Tea Bagger I immediately think the poster must be some incredibly low IQ person who has no ability to critically think and defend or justify their positions without personal attacks while deflecting the discussion to something they are more comfortable with like "Wow lets tax the rich or the poor will be lining the streets walking 3 miles uphill each way for the soup line"

I know there are plenty of conservatives who also use personal attacks on here and I usually dismiss them too but besides name calling for Obama, Reid, Boehner or name your favorite politician as a Nazi thug, I dont hear any names being used for anybody part of the loony far left agenda that mirrors the what many think of the far right tea party agenda. Is it a form of jealousy because the Tea Party has been so successful? But radical is radical regardless of whether its right or left and only the Tea Party members get singled out on here. So come on lets start a name party for the radical left, so what should we call the socialists? the Anarchists, the environmental crazies or greenies that believe we should be using a horse and buggy, PETA, the race baiters, the Bernie Sanders crowd, the few who actually think Card Check is a good thing, the people who dont want a Global economy, the people who want to make circumcision illegal, most of San Francisco, people who want to tax any food they think is bad for you rather than personal accountability, pacifists at all costs, the anti gun of any kind crowd, the rehabilitation of sex offenders crowd, the legalization of all drugs crowd etc. Since we have the Tea Baggers, I want a catchy name for all of these loony folks too? It doesnt seem fair while we are trying to create more divides among us all not to have some names for these people too.

Spanky:

Um bilweeler - you need to tell Obama about the no taxes thing-y, cause I heard him say that taxes need to be raised - you know the whole "balanced approach."

Are you troubled that he has no clue that even Reid has sided with the reps on this issue? Reid's super smart, no?

I hate it when I have to explain the obvious to the clueless.

It's called "COMPROMISE." You probably haven't heard of it. It happens, as described by the Commander in Chief, when you have to choose between two bad options.

You choose the least bad one. DUH.

Pass this explanation along to your TParty types, will ya? They need some lessons in governing.

Poll just anounce on tv, 65% of REPUBLICANS think that the REPULICANS are doing a worse job than OBAMA

LMAO

MJL, probably true because as bad as Obama is doing, its not like Congress is doing any better

Who do you believe is an honest broker who speaks the truth?

"Honest" broker! Haha, that's a good one Kate.

So you know any dis-honest brokers Indy?

I know many stock brokers who work very hard and do great things for their clients.

Jealous much?

With no real message or thoughts of their own the above feel their place is to say snide things.

Only children run down the messenger when they do not have a good argument.

Come on use some of those brains you claim to have and explain to me how in your cut, cut everything spending mode that it is alright to continue to put tax cuts for the rich on our debt when it is spending just like every other spending except that money goes to the rich?

My brains cannot decipher your comment.

THe top 1% already pay 39.9% of all individual taxes. Yet they earn only 22%.

THat extra18% is going somewhere no isn't it.

But tell us American First - do you know a lot of dishonest brokers like Indy Lib apparently does?

AmericasFirst,

Cuts are not a bad thing, especially when they cut waste and fraud in government. Eliminating waste is a good thing, isn't it?

How about eliminating the non-competative cost of meds under the medicare plan? Sure it was under the Republicans at the time, but who cares. Have Medicare use the same negotiating methods the VA uses to create lower drug costs.

Or what about the fraud associated with the Welfare system? Want to eliminate that also?

Read the Colburn document about the various government programs that are wasteful and attack those programs.

Hey, the professional politicians are playing a game, with the Great Divider leading the charge to freighten the masses about non-payments to entitlements. Now there is a committed fraud announcer that needs to be taken to the cleaners.

Spany, instead of spewing the same old nonsense you pull from your ass on a regular basis how about you cite where your bogus numbers come from.

Ok,

You guys changed the subject. I said nothing about how much anyone pays for taxes or why cuts are good.

So again defend your cut, cut spending is all important rant and when the tax cuts for the richest are increased spending and increasing our debt, why are you not against this kind of spending, after all spending is spending isn't it? Is it ok with you because that money goes to the rich?

Try again, I know this is out of your comfort range of talking points and have to actually think and give me an answer.

Mr. Bletso you are either Karl Rove or one of the Koch brothers lackies. The President , thank goodness, cares about what happens to the country . No matter how many times you repeat your nonsense, most people don't believe rubbish simply because it is repeated over and over.Leave that to anyone willing to give Bachmann or Rick Perry the keys to the Whitehouse or who believes anything Rush says.

They could repeal Obamacare and use the remainder of the stimulus.

Ira, what part of the money is already there don't you get?

Just because YOU believe the threats by Obama and Geithner doesn't mean that I have to.

I just love it that you say that HALF of this nation makes less than $16,000 a year. I'll bet you actually believe that too, don't you Ira?

Of course, let's not take into consideration that the welfare system pays THREE times that to those on welfare. In Los Angeles, the welfare system pays up to $54,000 in "entitlements" and "benefits" for those generational welfare frauds.

Maybe that's why you like "social justice" so much Ira. Because it's easier to leech the people that actually work for what they have, that earn what they have and just give it to frauds and thieves than it is hold anyone accountable. Welfare is SUPPOSED to be a temporary help. I have a neighbor that's been on welfare for over 20 years, now her oldest daughter is on it, and her middle daughter will be on it when she has her child. Why? Because there's no husband there, that's why. And my oh my, a single mother just "can't" work for a living and raise a child. So the boyfriends live there, but the government, meaning YOU and me pay.

And it's NOT just "child care credit", or there would be millions of Americans out there have 8 or 10 kids so they wouldn't have to pay. Are you really that naive?

Who said "immediate pay down of debt"? Not me.

But somewhere, sometime there has to be CUTS made. We just can't keep spending what we DON'T HAVE and then say that raising the debt ceiling, i.e. spending even MORE of what we don't have, is the answer.

CherylLM

Ira, what part of the money is already there don't you get?

Seriously...I wonder what Congress is fighting about then.

The $15 trillion public debt is there? Please tell us where? How about the $60 trillion in undunded debt...there also.

No answer necessary.

We're done...Great day.

Let's do this real slow Ira - existing debt costs per month $20billion.

Existing revenue per month $200 billion. Everything else needs to be cut back.. Way back.

See, easy, peasy, fresh and easy. No default.

Say, did you get a load of England? GDP growth at a whopping .02% See my libbie friends, we all know haw this movie ends. Ceiling of no ceiling, entitlements kill countries.

IRA - don't you have some Corporate tax compliance work that needs to get done? Deadline is looming.

Hey JFK....

Please cite a valid source for the money that has been spent this year on Obamacare.

We'll wait for that link.

Spanky..

Wow..and you did that so tongue in cheek..

Pay debt service , military and some others..the rest too bad.

Cherry pick the others...close some services and offices, furlough workers..forgot that part.

How about the intergovernmental debt? About $4 trillion of the SS fund is intergovernmental debt? Wait...default in the debt and we can't redeem the Treasury IOU's and then SS is really in trouble.

The only thing that gets paid under your scenario is debt service and then it's pay as you go.

For real Spanky,? Is this more of I got mine screw the rest of you cause except for the Gold you hold, any stocks, bonds, etc., integrated into your 401K and IRA's will devalue faster than a speeding bullet.

So when a client comes to you and you complete your job and he says sorry, I ran out of money...you accept that? Sure you do Spanky..

Spanky..

P.S. I don't do Corporate Compliance work, the good people that work for this firm, and me do.

And in case your calendar is screwed up...here's some dates to remember:

All due on Sept. 15th:

3rd quarter estimated tax payments due for 2011 tax year.

Final deadline to file corporate tax returns if an extension was requested. (Forms 1120, 1120A, 1120S).

Final deadline to file trust income tax returns (Form 1041) if an extension was requested.

Final deadline to file partnership tax returns (Form 1065) if an extension was requested.

If you need the October deadlines, please let me kno

Big retainers Ira, big retainers. And be sure to verify financial viability of all defendants before suit is files.

But it is a good point - would you loan money to someone in as bad a shape as the US? For all those things you listed. The money will stop for one reason or another.

$4 billion plus a day Ira. $4 BILLION A DAY. More debt is not the answer. You know this.

And 9/15 will be here before we know it, right IRA?

Spanky..

Has the US had any problem borrowing money from anyone at just over 2% with $15 trillion in debt...anyone?

More debt is NOT the answer but moving towards a Bowles-Simpson or Gang of Six plan is...debt reduction at a 3:1 ratio. I'm all for that.

Not this...not the calamity that follows default and for no reason. Hand ringing about the debt for political gain...on BOTH sides. No hand ringing when it was...what...about 11 to 12 trillion when Obama took office. Then is was just a housekeeping procedure. Only once in our history, in 1995, did Congress refuse to raise the debt ceiling and it closed the government down twice.

This is just outrageous and when the markets start to decline if this is not resolved soon , you can bet that Arizona home you love, that there will be some serious consequences my friend.

Sorry Ira, but you know as well as anyone else that a couple with income of $50,000, with two children under 17, pays no federal income taxes, due to child tax credits.

Please don't get into the liberal habit of creative truth telling. I have too much respect for you.

no joe, no bo, nj..

Hey nojo..where did I specify any income amount to be eligible for the Child Care credit.

I said that after the Child Care Credit was passed into law the number of non payers jumped dramatically as so many people qualified for the credit.

Please don't get into the habit of accusing me of creative truth telling...read the post first.

Gee, Ira-

I'm sure I read your statement that those paying no federal income tax earning "just mover $16,000 a year".

$50,000 is "just over"?

Wow.

What's "just under"? -50,000?

no joe, no bo, nj..

That's right no-jo...one category of non payers makes less than $16,800 dollars a year.

Now how does that relate to the childcare credit.

Two different discussions not linked.

Wow...

So IRA - just why does Obama refuse to even try to push Simpsom Bowles?

Not like he has any alternative plan.

And don't worry the Ax. house is fine. Plus the motor home is free and clear, so I'm good. and mobile.

Say, what's gas gonna cost next month? Sure would be nice to get some new drilling on line, you know for us "homeless."

See I like non linked discussions too. :)

Spanky..

Why doesn't he like Simpson-Bowles OR the Gang of Six.....honestly I haven't a clue...does not make a scintilla of sense. I did say BOTH sides forgot when politics ends and governing begins. It really is time to govern.

Your AX home...glad you're good with them....just don't bet them that there will be no steep market declines as the days pass. Yields will start to move up very soon. Bet you on it.

Oh c'mon...don't start with that drill baby drill crap...you know better.

Spanky..

BTW...kinda snarky and condescending today...you ok?

Just asking...

John Boehner will be found out to be a liar and marginally competent when this whole thing is said and done.

He read a speech last night that he had no clue what it really said.

"Blank check". Really. How is that possible when the Republicans won't give the President 1 penny in revenue enhancements?

Boehner and all the other Republicans who came out of the wood work last night sounded like they were on drugs.

I loved it when Lawrence O'Donnell asked the crazy lady from Tennessee if she voted to raise the debt limit under Bush and she would not answer the question. It was hysterical because she knew Lawrence already had her voting record in his hands.

These people are the worst bunch of evil hypocrites ever.

And they are stupid enough to continue going on shows they know they will get their asses handed to them .

JFK:

They could repeal Obamacare and use the remainder of the stimulus.

Not gonna happen, at least during this administration.

If you really want to repeal Obamacare, you need to do one of 2 things:

1. Elect a GOP President, or at least a DEM President (if you can find one) who won't veto a repeal of Obamacare.

2. Successfully challenge the legislation in court. The current challenges out there (mostly on the individual mandate) are meeting with mixed results. Unless you can get SCOTUS to overrule the mandate or some other critical part of Obamacare, you're stuck with it.

But don't pretend you can negotiate it away. Negotiations ended when the bill was signed. Now you have to do ALL THE WORK yourself. No help from Congress or President.

Snarky and condescending Ira? Not I, sir. It's just there will be no default, all the bills will be paid. Pain yes, default, no way.

Man I hope they don't raise the ceiling - make the bastards live witht he revenues they got. As you know Ira - it's their tax code. You and me pay more than enough already.

Oh and that was supposed to be Az. house. Otherwise know as the backup plan, you know when Cali actually goes full Greece and implodes.

I'm guessing it is getting real close.

Good to see you're back to your normal Spanky self...

I worry about you...

Spanky,

Always good to have a backup plan.

So true, I have a home in Parker for the same reason, California is hanging by a thread, I just hate to leave, great weather, great beaches and so much to do.

By the way, good call on Fast and Furious. Hell's a poping!

CherylLM

Your ideology is completely divorced from the real world, and seemingly formed by strange misconceptions about our economy.

Wall Street nearly sank us gambling on "split derivatives" and betting on the housing bubble. "We The People" bailed them out, to keep our country from landing in a Depression, and now they are doing better than ever, but is Wall Street grateful? No. We ran up debts trying to save the economy but Wall Street doesn't want to sacrifice a tiny portion of their resultant wealth to pay for the stimulus. The wealthy CEOS regard the United States of America as their crib, their turf, their Golden Goose, and they feel no obligation to contribute to the benefit of the entire country.

Blah blah blah, hey Cheryl, the "communist" argument died when the Chinese opened their own stock market. If an honest man and woman work 6 days a week, for 8 to 12 hours and still can't afford to pay their rent, buy food, water and power for themselves and 2 kids, and go to the doctor; then the system stinks. Don't try to tell me that they are all just lazy, it's a lie that you tell yourself to cover up your own guilty conscience. We live in a SOCIETY, not a JUNGLE. That means that YOU have a responsibilty to make sure that all Americans have their basic needs covered: We, as a country, become their extended family. You view the unfortunate as enemies; I view them as decent countrymen who need my help.

frog that is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever read.... you are the reason this country is going in the wrong direction.. If you really believe what is coming out of your mouth you are one sick individual

Jim Bletso

Can you refute anything frag says or was that just a knee jerk response to a comment that smacks of compassion?

No one wants to punish the wealthy...just ridiculously childish. Why not get rid of the tax loopholes and charge a fee for every federal service used? Then we'll see which group uses and should pay for federal services. I mean we pay fees for everthing else why not Federal, not State, services.

Frag,

If we are to be considered their extended family then I guess we can sue you for their wrong doings since they cannot pay for their crimes????????

I for one am here ONLY to support MY own Family NOT YOURS. If this is a true Society then we should demand that no one can have ANY children until they themselves can provide for them. Rememebr your statement was But if we did that then we would be no better than the Communist countries that are still out there.

Hey Cheryl---

You actually believe the class warfare nonsense?

"I just think that - when a country needs more income and we do, we're only taking in 15 percent of GDP, I mean, that - that - when a country needs more income, they should get it from the people that have it."

"If anything, taxes for the lower and middle class and maybe even the upper middle class should even probably be cut further. But I think that people at the high end - people like myself - should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it."

"The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you. But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on."

"The 400 of us pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

And my personal fave, which speaks directly to your idiotic rant:

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

All of that from Warren Buffet. He is neither too blind or stupid or immoral to see what's really going on. He also happens to be a hell of a lot smarter and more successful than a parrot like you.

Yeah, Warren Buffet sure can talk. . .

Now, enlighten me- how much money did he send the Treasury as a gift to reduce the debt? Hmmm?

Cause, I think he TALKS a good game, but he sheltered his money in a tax exempt "foundation" so he could pay MINIMUM taxes.

And he knows how to avoid paying an increase, to boot.

Spare me from the sanctimony of the hypocrites. It no longer flies.

WOW

I know nothing I will say makes any difference, but, usa, et al, we DO live in a nation that has taken it upon itself to care for those who cannot take care of themselves. Our duly elected representatives have, over the years, created these programs that have benefited us for decades.

Are there abuses of the system? sure

are there reforms to be made? most definitely

should the programs be dismantled and the recipients by tossed to the wolves? Absolutely NOT

I honestly don't think that most of you of the conservative persuasion posting so vehemently believe all that you are saying. That, or you haven't thought enough about what will happen if you wishes come to pass.

(and...Communist countries ?!...really?)

usa: I for one am here ONLY to support MY own Family NOT YOURS.

So, you are providing your own medical care, providing for your own defense, growing all of your own food and recycling all of your waste? What a self-serving, dispassionate, selfish statement.

Spare me from the sanctimony of the hypocrites, it no longer flies.

You mean like the cut spending crowd is more than happy to continue spending on tax breaks for the rich.

How about so called real Americans who have signed a pledge to help Norquist destroy America? I love America, can't wait to drown her in a bathtub crowd.

You can't mean that kind of hypocrites.

cherylLM- you have apparently gulped too much tea. Somebody Please tell me why nobody in the media is bringing to light the fact that all these "public servants" who are willing to slash and burn the safety nets of millions have their own golden parachutes and gold plated medical plans which will not be affected. Not to mention their off-shore bank accounts provided by the lobbyists. Come on, Media- ask the tough questions. We need answers.

That's why we usually overlook your posts, Cheryl,...stupid is as stupid does and you got a double dose of it ,sweetheart!

bornwithblight I do not overlook her posts they make sense... I suppose nothing makes sense to you however with your synapses just not connecting

Read this and get enlightened.

Here is why 47% of households owe no tax and why it is just a misleading GOP/TP talking point.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html

you might care to read this living wage calculation, also. http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/

You might want to read this, also.Corporatons that pay little or no tax. Please explore at your leisure

http://payupnow.org/

Typical the republicans are so worried that the poor might get an egg, while the rich carry off the entire hen house un-noticed.

Now it is back to our regularly scheduled programing: It's Obama's fault.

Cynthia

The concept is federal income taxes. These are the kind that pay for the US Military protection, the USDA, the federal highways, the state department, the education department, Pell Grants, Medicaid etc. etc. etc.

Those are the things they don't pay for but reap the benefits of.

Now do you understand????

So Reb, you have a problem with the poor using the benefits of defense and such but you are perfectly ok using the benefits of teachers, police, garbage pick up, EMT's, and fire fighters while demanding they take a cut in their pay because you simply can't afford them. I get it now, you want to be a moocher you just get upset when you think others are infringing on your mooching.

Sally, 51% of the US population are not all poor. Nowhere did I say the police, fire and teachers should take a cut?? That came out of left field - excuse the pun!! You my dear need to take a seditive. I live in Manhattan where our teachers, fire and police make good salaries. In fact so good that a tenured teacher with 20 years of service married to a police captain would be considered as wealthy by Obama as their combined income would be over $250,000.

I can gaurantee that I pay more taxes than you and all I am asking for is a little help here.

You can guarantee that can you? Did your crystal ball tell you? And no it didn't come out of left field. It ties right in with this very topic. Do try an keep up.

Yes I can Sally. I am in the top Fed bracket, I live in NY State AND NYC. All I am trying to do is keep up but paying all of the taxes is tough.

Now where did I say to have the fire, police and teachers cut??

Teachers and police provide vital public services what do you do that is so vital?...you live in the most expensive part of new york by your choosing, move to brooklyn and live within your means like the GOTP are so fond of quoting. I'm from mississippi and I KNOW HARD WORK AND HARD TIMES...its funny...I'm supposed to feel sorry for you living in manhattan in your 5k a month apartment?... and Im a gun toting liberal that recently moved here and I've never seen so many entitle gopieces of crap in my life especially upstate all sealed away in there homogeneous communities! And for your info your salary quotes are just plain false...please google new your teacher salary pay scales its plain as day you're a lying turd

As with most occupations, the higher your rank, the higher your overall compensation. It is no different with the NYPD officers. According to the NYPD website, an officer with the rank of police officer earns a total compensation of $90,829 per year. Moving upward to the rank of detective, officers will earn $97,735 annually. After they have earned enough seniority and qualified to be sergeant, they'll earn $109,016 per year. Total compensation for the rank of lieutenant is $125,163, and for the final rank of captain $160,000 a year.

Read more: The Average Salary of NYC Police | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5449349_average-salary-nyc-police.html#ixzz1TIrUTPpQ

For teachers with 22 years with a Masters degree plus further credits the salary is 100,049. I believe that is $260,049 even in Missippippi math.

Now where did I say to have the fire, police and teachers salaries cut?? You have to read my comments. Perhaps if the math is too tough you should blame your teacher.

I almost spit out my cheetos from laughing so hard.

how sad, but true. hang in there...sometimes all we can do is keep telling them how we really feel.

sfilutze....You are the clown because you actually think spending MORE money that we don't have is actually an "answer".

CherylLM - did I miss something? I don't see anything is sfilutze's post about spending more money. Feel free to correct me if your post was anything but a faulty inference.

Notice that Cheryl has no problem spending money on tax breaks for the richest in American.

Tax cuts have cost us 2.7 Trillion dollars of debt and how can we afford to keep putting this money on our debt? From the very first year of the tax cuts, bush had to borrow money to pay for them that added to the debt.

If spending is the problem, I expect you to call your congress and tell them to stop the spending now even if that money does go to rich.

I noticed that Cherly does a lot a rambling but never really says anything.

What erks me the most is we the taxpayers are flipping the bill for these extremist polititions to sit on there a-ss and play monopoly. Can anyone say term limits.

obama has not had a demo senate ever it takes 60 votes thanks to a repb rule change..

The conservative dems are the reason a lot of Obama's ideas are shot down, just like some Dems voted for that cut and cap nonsense to try to tie his hands even further . Those nuts don't care that we are sick of the bickering. They think by sinking us into another recession, we will have Stockholm syndrome and vote one of those sorry Rep candidates into the White House.Yesterday Mitt Romney had the gall to act like the election had already happened and he would need presidential protection(HA). He can't even support the one thing he did do in Massachusetts...a viable health care plan. Just imagine him taking thr kind of heat Obama has taken and still manage to think about the rest of the American people. He'd just be another ultra-rich puppet for the business community.

Let's see now....Obama keeps saying that if he doens't get to raise taxes he's not signing anything, period.

He's even said he would veto a bill, without EVER knowing what was in it, just because Republicans wrote it.

Meanwhile, Democrats have come out with NOTHING, and you say that it's the Republicans that are doing the "I want what I want when I want it" attitude?

Wake up!!

And "social justice" is the Anti-American agenda.

double standard lakerman

Cheryl, thats not true...Obama came out with his Budget a while back and was voted on by the Senate. I think the final vote was 0-97.

Cheryl: Thanks so much for trotting out the tired old talking points of the truly desperate and disconnected. Where shall we begin ....

1)The Reid plan, which Obama said he would sign, contains NO TAXES AT ALL. Period.

2) He said he would veto Cut, Cap and Balance knowing full well what was in it.

3) Democrats have advanced plan after plan, have negotiated in good faith and have been willing to compromise way past the comfort zone of most liberals and progressives, but the TeaPublicans keep walking away from the table - I guess they are taking their balls and going home? And, by the way, that quote I used and you affirmed was from Eric Cantor, the TeaParty loon.

4) Unless you are a TeaParty Troll or an ultra wealthy person you are being used. YOU need to wake up.

5) Social Justice is Anti-American??? Sorry, lady, that is what America is all about. Thanks for playing. Sorry you are going home with the consolation prize of being used by the far right.

JB: What double standard are you talking about? Or are you simply trying to shore up the failed talking points of your TeaBagger sister?

lakeman you should know its the liberal double standard every liberal has one

Again, not an answer to my question. Simply an attempt to obfuscate when you have no answer, facts or reasoning.

Jim - You should first try to attain a single standard. Then you will evolve to be worthy of a double standard. You total lack of any standards, decorum, sense or ability to put together several sentences should encourage you to find a high cliff and do what's right. Just saying(what many others are thinking)!

Lakerman

This is the best wack-a-troll season I have ever seen around here.

Thanks for showing them how the game is played. There only response is attacking the messenger and if you really upset them with too much truth they will call you names just to prove their real intelligence.

I have loved all the well thought out and well written post from the left today.

marshal....go check the record. It wasn't just Republicans that DEMANDED that we invade Afghanistan, and Iraq by the way.

It was DEMOCRATS too.

But it's so conveniently easy to forget that in your zeal to spread hate, isn't it?

Yeah thats the ticket, discharge them all and they can go get a job where exactly?

@Cheryl, GW Bush used faulty information and he lied to the American people about the WMD. There were stories going around at the time. Any time one of his minions would give him a report stating that there were no WMD, scribbled across it and said "wrong answer". But that in all history now, we need to move forward and not let the TP hold the elected officials hostage. Vote all of the TP out in the Local, State and Federal level in 2012.

35% corporate tax, the second highest in the world. (Of course that doesn't count GE, who ensured that Obama and Democrats were bought off so they could actually get money back instead of paying taxes). The so called "rich", that would be anyone making over $200,000 in a year, pay just about 90% of all taxes.

And you pay what Pollysci? Nothing? Probably get back more than you pay in, don't you? Democrats bought you off and now all you have to do is repeat their garbage.

Great country, isn't it?

But we only collect 18%. That's the effective tax rate. What we actually collect. This is because of all the loopholes that only the rich can take advantage of. Democrats have repeatedly said they would drop it to the 22-25% range is we would actually collect that much.

We pay over 12% of our income every year....no refunds.

CherylLM -- can you provide evidence of ONE corporation that pays a 35% rate? Because of all the loopholes, they all pay much less than that. Other countries have lower rates, but they also tax other things (VAT for example) and pay into health care. If you want to borrow a corporate rate from somewhere else, at least borrow the entire system and credit where it comes from.

I doubt she can find even one large corporation that pays the 18% effective tax rate. Most of these large corporation pay effectively zero. So essentially the largest portion of corporate tax pie pays no taxes at all.

Putting all the tax burden on all the smaller businesses. So how is this fair? And of course this carries right over into personal taxes.

Cheryl: Quit parroting talking points and start to think. Highest rate in the world??? Give us a break. What matters is effective rate. when you have Corporations that pay no tax and even get rebates from we, the people, that is NOT the highest rate in the world. And just who is perpetuating this corporate welfare? The TeaPublicans!

The top 2% of the country are those making over $250,000. And if they truly are paying 90% of the taxes, that only points to the vast disparity of wealth in our country. All of the little statistics and facts that the right wing spews out as "proof" of what they are trying to shovel down our throats only spiaks to how unfair and imbalanced our country's economic situation has become.

But thanks for sharing and helping us all to see how truly desperate the TeaPublicans are.

The rich people have representation because they don't pay taxes and give the money straight to the politicians.

All the job creation money is going straight into creating a job for the politicians themselves.

That my friends is why never raising taxes again for the richest in America is Republicans main goal.

Robert, it is what 66% of Americans want. They want Cut, Cap and Balance. Pay attention.

JFK

I have been paying attention:

The Washington Post/ABC News survey asked American adults whether they supported or opposed a list of proposals to reduce the deficit. Seventy-two percent of all respondents said they supported raising taxes on annual income over $250,000, including 54% of respondents who said they "strongly" supported that position. Democrats were most supportive of that proposal (91%), but so too were a majority of independents (68%) and Republicans (54%.)

Additionally, 27% said they opposed increasing taxes on income earned beyond $250,000 per year.

In the Marist poll, 64% of registered voters said they supported raising taxes above that same cutoff point, compared to 33% who opposed that plan. A majority of Republicans opposed tax hikes in the Marist poll (54% against verus 43% in favor), though larger majorities of Democrats and independents supported them. Democrats backed the tax increases 83%-15%, while independents supported them by a 63%-34% split.

Wow, did that say 72% want to raise revenue on the rich? Looks like us Independents are leaning that way as well. Breakdown of registered voters in America FYI - GOP is 27%, Dems are 33% and Independents are 40%.

JFK: WRONG! 67% of the American Public wants their to be compromise and a balance of cuts and revenue increases. What you are advocating is Cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations, Cap opportunity for everyone else, and balance the debt on the backs of the middle class, the poor, the old, veterans and children.

JMC3524421

I quite agree. Well said.

You can't spend more than you take in?

WHERE WAS YOUR OUTRAGE WHEN BUSH AND CHENEY WERE DOING IT TO THE TUNE OF TRILLIONS??????????????

Why didn't I hear you and the rest of the tea pots enraged when your little coward Cheney said, "Deficits don't matter." You disguise your bigotry with a short term memory. No one believes you.

Karen's just pissed because the Wall Street she so worshiped screwed her and all her teapublican brothers and sisters and now they don't have a pot to piss in. Careful what you wish for Karen. But i have to be honest, I truly hope you get everything you ask for!

Wow. What a ranting lunatic...someone make sure she's unarmed...

Why was Paul Ryan spotted two weeks ago having dinner and $700 in wine with a well known hedge fund manager? What does a guy who has made HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS have in common with a little lawyer from Janesville, WI?

Oh. The topic of conversation? Privatizing Medicare. (Hint, hint.)

Sadly debb, we have become so complacent as Americans we no longer give a sh!t that the weasel is guarding the hen-house!

When Eric Cantor shut down debt ceiling negotiations last week, it did more than just rekindle fears that the U.S. government might soon default on its debt obligations -- it also brought him closer to reaping a small financial windfall from his investment in a mutual fund whose performance is directly affected by debt ceiling brinkmanship.

Last year the Wall Street Journal reported that Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House, had between $1,000 and $15,000 invested in ProShares Trust Ultrashort 20+ Year Treasury EFT. The fund aggressively "shorts" long-term U.S. Treasury bonds, meaning that it performs well when U.S. debt is undesirable. (A short is when the trader hopes to profit from the decline in the value of an asset.)

According to his latest financial disclosure statement, which covers the year 2010 and has been publicly available since this spring, Cantor still has up to $15,000 in the same fund. Contacted by Salon this week, Cantor's office gave no indication that the Virginia Republican, who has played a leading role in the debt ceiling negotiations, has divested himself of these holdings since his last filing. Unless an agreement can be reached, the U.S. could begin defaulting on its debt payments on Aug. 2. If that happens and Cantor is still invested in the fund, the value of his holdings would skyrocket.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/index.html

You really do live in a swamp of misinformation, don't you?

Alan, How can I put this nicely? You have been brainwashed by Fox, Beck, Limbaugh or perhaps Coulter.

OOps, my bad, you would first have to have a brain.

Faux does it with censored news and drama to scare the viewers. That is why their arguments seem childish and uninformed.

Unfortunately faux has convinced them that the other side of the story is liberal lies.

I can remember Nixon on TV and I noticed he does this thing with his eyes right before he tells a lie. I would tease my republican dad that the next thing out of his mouth would be a lie.

When Nixon was impeached he got so angry not at Nixon but at me. It hurt him to accept that the president of the country that he had risk his life for in World War II would lie to him.

I see that same kind of disconnect here. Can't and won't accept the truth. Republicans are stabbing Americans in the back for the rich. Sad, but true.

Jim -- if your numbers are correct and the top 10-15% pay 70-80% of the taxes, it's because they earn 70-80% of the money. The great disparity between the very wealthy and the rest of the country has been evident for some time, and the "trickle down" theory of wealthy money creating jobs and improving the economic status of those lower down has not worked.

Jim,

You're absolutely correct. Ideology is murdering us. From Reagan to Chaney (read their quotes) they assured us all that debt was irrelevant. Now, we've suddenly changed our minds. In 2000, Bush justified tax cuts on the grounds that the government surplus should be given back to the populace (granted, the wealthy ones). Now, we want tax cuts to enhance tax revenue. Can't have it both ways, can you? Corporations, banks, and wealthy financiers are experiencing record profits, largely from overseas performance, while salaries and jobs in the states have diminished. Of course they pay more taxes. The top 14,999 individual earners who paid taxes controlled 23% of the nation's wealth, and they averaged a tax rate of 19% (hello, loopholes...that's less than I paid). Taxes are at their lowest levels in 60 years.

If you want to serve the wealthy, just say so, and I'm ok with that. Just don't take rhetoric and pretend it's factual. Don't expect us all to simply accept what we are told. Many of us work hard, even enjoy it, and would like the opportunity to retire with at least a modest income and health care, much like our grandparents and great grandparents. That's difficult to do when incomes in the middle class remain stagnant, health care costs sky rocket, and we are being asked to take on an even larger load than we have had in over 70 years.

Look up oligarchy. You'll find yourself right at home.

the 25 top hedge fund managers made 22 billion last year and because of a loophole pay 15% and as obama said last night there sectr. pay 35 %....66% of corp payed no taxes and the g.e. got 3.2 billion rebate...not to mention the exxon etc. etc. etc...yacht exemption for second home corporate jets exemption blah blah blah....i mean they make enough after taxes to buy legislators... so forget the whoa is the rich.....take their money offshore are jobs overseas and hey let's layoff a couple thousand to boost are stock price...real hero's real american's

oh and i like the pat buchanon one that 47% of people in this country don't pay any tax,,,he's right the people that make little don't pay taxes why because that would be stupid because low income people put every cent pay into the economy....rich people those job creator's ha don't they sit on it....that's why tax cuts are focused to the middle class and llower class because it acutally does something ...like get spend....

The income of the top 1% consists of comparatively little wages from earnings. The vast majority of their income if from capital gains. That is the result of their ownership of 90% of this nation's assets. This group currently has the lowest overall tax burden since just before the Great Depression.

You must either be in that circle at the top, or soon to be a servile peasant, consistent with your Kochroach/tea party freaks best efforts to make us ALL that way.

Please. The two welfare mothers I'm acquainted with think Obama is the greatest. Neither of them have had a job for years. One gets her money from welfare AND from her "baby daddy" to use a disgusting phrase. The other gets money from welfare and her mother. Both have active social lives. Both voted for Obama, as I'm sure the rest of the leeches did. There are, for sure some so-called conservatives who slack and live off our tax money. I degrade, insult and down them whenever I get the chance. They don't like me much. lol.

And if you cut out welfare, where are those people going to go? They aren't going to just disappear.

How about "get a job'?

Maybe if the corps weren't getting tax breaks for moving jobs out of America, there might still be some jobs to be had.

Republicans feel those tax breaks are more important than jobs in America.

Republicans the party of the rich, for the rich and the suckers of the rich.

Great! Where are all of these JOBS they are supposed to run out and get? China? India? They sure aren't here! I thought that's what the Rethuglicans RAN ON!!! Now unemployment has gotten WORSE since they took over the House! They have not done ANYTHING about job creation. They said extending Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were supposed to create JOBS! They have been exposed as the hypocritical liars they are!

here's a question would you rather make so little money that the government says hey you're to poor to pay...or would you rather make enough money to complain about paying taxes?... pick one no hypotheticals