feisty:

Exactly. I watched the 75 second speech by Boehner. He said at the end that if President Obama vetos this bill it would be irresponsible. Well like you said he was going to take it to the people and tonight we will see the rest of the story.

This is a bad idea because we will be going through this all over again in April right in the middle of the election cycle. They GOP is going to use this to get President Obama off message and stall again trying to make him look bad.

The GOP/TP is a lot of things but Stupid is not one of them. There is a plan hiding behind this and you can bet on it and it is not about the Debt Ceiling. Just watch.

Don't forget his little lapdog Cantor chiming in! ;o)

Why does that dude ALWAYS look like he sucked a lemon before facing the camera's?

Goes with tequila? or is that lime? I can't remember. It has been a great long while since i indulged.

I've been trying to read and understand the difference between the competing plans and it all just looks like politics to me.

I just want the President to address the nation and tell us what the heck's going on.

PS why does every picture of Boehner show him smirking? Is he enjoying this fiasco or is that just his face?

He's probably drunk Amy B.

Yay, another speech.

Let's see: Reid's plan is great, Boehner's plan sucks. Politics and politicking.

Then they will compromise on something more "in the middle." Small cuts, no tax increases at all.

Republicans control only one third of the power, yet are about to get much of what they want. Pretty good.

Now let's see if Obama can get the only thing he cares about - kicking this thing out to past '02 elections.

But you have to hand it to Feisty for incredible understatement - it's Boehner, Cantor and McConnell that are all over the place.

Yep, not presidient presser every other day/presidient "taking it to the people.

Sounds like in Feisty-land [I know, right?] only dems get to take stuff to the people, whatever that means.

Is he enjoying this fiasco or is that just his face?

More than likely it's the bourbon! ;o)

Hey Brian - looks like we're on the same page today!

Hope the twins are doing well & you and the Mrs. are getting some more sleep... ;o)

Did you catch the name of the Boner plan?

"The Two-Step Approach to Hold President Obama Accountable"

Yeah, does that sound like a serious piece of legislation or a partisan joke? I'd go with partisan joke.

Ezra Klein has more:

Spanky:

Let's see: Reid's plan is great, Boehner's plan sucks. Politics and politicking.

Conservatives demanded a plan, and now that they've got one, all they do is grouse about the plan.

My plan's better than your plan, my plan's better than yours, my plan's better 'cause it's got half a chance, my plan's better than yours.

Be careful what you wish for, Spanky. From now on, it's all about polarization.

Guess what the TeaParty people have already rejected Boehner's plan!! He can't get enough votes to do ANY thing in the House!

"Why does that dude ALWAYS look like he sucked a lemon before facing the camera's?"

....never heard one called THAT before.

Is everyone burned out from this budget mess today? Such childish remarks from the Peanut Gallery about GOP leadership.

Not to worry, each side is posturing for now, and before the pot runs dry of money, a deal will be done. It's politics and it is working the way the professional politicians are accustomed to playing the game. Someone will be standing in the middle of the road like a deer in the headlights prior to making the game end. Which one will it be?

And while this is going on, we hear that Cantor looks like he's sucking on a lemon. Priceless comment from the uneducated.

Didn't catch your implication there Drive By.

I don't suppose you will man up and explain exactly what you meant?

AM - Reid's got a plan. Great. now let's see it get through the House. No a chance so he's wasting time, at least according to you all, right?

AM - Reid's got a plan. Great. now let's see it get through the House. No a chance so he's wasting time, at least according to you all, right?

Sigh.

You would have said the same thing if he had had a plan from Day 1.

"I don't suppose you will man up and explain exactly what you meant?

OK- for the slow kid.....

"....like he just sucked a LEMON..." Then DBO said "..never heard one called THAT before". One WHAT, the slow kid asked.

Get it yet? Well, do ya, Einstein??

For those who may have missed this earlier post or those who may need to read it again, it comes with love:

An old Cherokee told his grandson, "My son, there's a battle between two wolves inside us all. One is evil. It's anger, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego .The other is good. It's joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, empathy, and truth." The grandson thought about it and asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

This has to be some kind of record...

In less then two hours the tea baggers have struck down Boehner's latest proposal... lol

Damn those rascally wrabbits!

Here he goes trying to sell his plan (what plan?). He looks weaker everytime he gives a speech.

So here's the Reid plan:

The Reid plan includes $1.2 trillion in spending cuts, including the military budget, as well as $1 trillion in savings from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It also calls for $400 billion in reduced interest payments as a result of the spending cuts, and $100 billion in savings in so-called mandatory programs that are funded for multiple years and therefore don't require separate congressional authorization each year.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/25/debt.talks.obama/index.html?hpt=hp_bn4

So when are these savings realized? We have open ended wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, so how exactly do you put a number to account for the "savings" from those wars? Same with cuts to the military budget - is this some kind of 10 year plan? That makes the average of $120 billion per year, so what cuts does Reid envision for 2012?

$400 billion in reduced interest payments? Smoke and mirrors. How do you reduced interest payments if you never have to pay the interest? That's like saying "I didn't buy that $50,000 car, so I don't have the pay the interest payments on the loan. That's not a savings in real dollars that are scheduled to be spent.

$100 billion in savings in so-called mandatory programs that are funded for multiple years and therefore don't require separate congressional authorization each year? What? What in the world are these things?

There are no savings in this proposal, at least not in the year 2012, and probably not in 2013, or 2014 either. This is the clean bill Obama wants. He gets money to spend, and no there are no cuts that he is accountable for. It's no wonder he supports it. And Boehner is correct, this does nothing to address the bloated entitlement programs.

Of course the Liberals will love it! It "cuts" wars, and the military, and non-existent interest payments and obscure "mandatory programs" that they couldn't care less about, Obama gets his check book back, you can assured that the "cuts" will never be realized, but Obama will spend $2.7 trillion in the next 18 months.

Day 1. Funny concept there AM. Which day was that, cause Obama has gotten involved fairly recently. According to Larry O'Donnell this has been an issue since Pelosi got the boot.

DBO - nope, sorry still no. One what Drive By? Cause it seems like yu are talking about Anthony again, I can't believe you would be implying that Boehner is gay. Oh, wait, given your history on that subject....never mind.

Gingerbread. It is so good, it just never gets old.

Yep Feisty - them dang Tea Partiers - they really mean it when they say no more debt. Now what will all the little power mad politicians do? On no!

Spanky: - them dang Tea Partiers - they really mean it when they say no more debt. Now what will all the little power mad politicians do? On no!

Passing the Senates "plan" into law guarantees two things 1) Nothing will be cut 2) Obama will spend $2.7 trillion dollars in deficit spending by 2013.

For Obama, the debt ceiling isn't a limit - it's a goal.

Well, you can say one thing about these constant budget and debt crises; they divert everyones' attention away from jobs. Well, everyones' except the folks who don't have jobs. But then they're not able to donate to anyone's campaign.

Spanky:

Day 1. Funny concept there AM. Which day was that, cause Obama has gotten involved fairly recently. According to Larry O'Donnell this has been an issue since Pelosi got the boot.

I don't know. I have a day in mind, but in the interests of nonpartisanship, you pick.

As Ira might say, that's just some trivia.

Same answer any way you pick it.

Indy:

Well, you can say one thing about these constant budget and debt crises; they divert everyones' attention away from jobs. Well, everyones' except the folks who don't have jobs. But then they're not able to donate to anyone's campaign.

And that about sums up the only "Grand Plan" Republicans care about. The ultimate Grand Plan.

Reid plan: 1 trillion in savings from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Target accountants adjusted their budgets upward as they foresee their sales to improve as they expect Walmart to go bankrupt.

Yeah, it's the same thing.

[I can't believe you would be implying that Boehner is gay.]

Well, he does wear eyeliner and he cries a lot...raging hormones, perhaps?

Mr. President,

Please kick some butt Sir. You need to continue to let the American People know what games these Republicans-Tea Baggers are playing.

Spanky: only dems get to take stuff to the people

Only the President was elected by the entire country, the people. That's why he gets to take stuff to the people. But, you knew that.

Boehner on the other hand was only elected by the people of his district in Ohio. Not even the whole state of Ohio. But, you knew that too...

President Obama, a Democratic President, Is Going to CUT Social Security!!!!

Or is he going to "strengthen" Social Security? That's what he keeps saying. Yet everybody else is saying he is going to "cut" SS. What's the scoop?

One of the truly bright spots in the blogosphere is deaniac83. He has an informed thoughtful website with fantastic supporters. It's called ThePeoplesView for those who want to cut through the nonsense.

So what is this about the president cutting social security? Here are some snippets from deaniac's article:

___________________________________________

The "lefty" blogosphere and TV media is abuzz. Can you believe this? Barack Obama, a Democratic President, is talking about cutting (!) Social Security! Oh. My. Goodness. He endorsed the Gang of Six plan and the Fiscal Commission (oh, sorry, the catfood cumishun!!) as good bases in his press conferences. And those. Cut. Social. Security. Nooooo! We told you Obama ****!!!

Actually, like most every panic-mongering story floating around the ether and on the national "media," there is more (or less, depending on your point of view) here than meets the eye. First of all, let's get something clear. There are no cuts being proposed to social security's basic benefits. Social Security benefits are currently calculated using a formula that takes into account your income and replaces a certain percentage of it. Here is exactly how that's done: by determining one's average monthly income - wage-inflation adjusted - in the 35 best earning years of one's life, and then applying a "bend point" formula to determine your base benefit (fashionably known as PIA or the "primary insurance amount"). If you retire in 2011 at your normal retirement age, for example, your basic benefit is determined using the following formula:...

The other big lie coming from the sudden defenders of social security is that this is an even bigger cut for seniors given that those on Social Security need a higher factor in the adjustment in their benefit increases, since they, as a group, spend more on health care, which has a higher rate of growth than the current CPI. While this argument looks sound by itself, it lies by omission. It omits the fact that those very expenses are addressed both in the Affordable Care Act and in the Fiscal Commission's plan (and the Gang of Six's outline). I will continue to hammer the following until someone gets it through the blocked frame of the Professional Left:

President Obama increased benefits for Medicare recipients. Health reform collapses and ultimately closes the prescription drug donut hole, saving money for seniors who have high drug expenses. Health reform provides for no-copay preventive care under Medicare (Part B), cutting out those expenses from seniors, encouraging more preventive care, and thus lowering the risk (and thus cost) of catastrophic care. In case there is catastrophic care, the Fiscal Commission has recommended putting a $7,500 cap on cost-sharing for Medicare recipients, which also gets no mention from the newly self-appointed defenders of the elderly. I guess that the for-profit health provider industry and the drug makers can thank these faux defenders of Social Security for giving them an excuse to continue raising their profit margins on the backs of social security recipients.

So let's summarize. There is no cuts - none - in the basic benefit formula for social security. There is a floor of benefits - above the federal poverty level. And the way to address medical expenses is to actually address medical expenses, and we need to stop using social security to stuff the coffers of the hospital and drug industries.

Let's stop the bizarre freakout over minor adjustments to COLA that, along with other measures proposed by the Fiscal Commission (like bring the Social Security tax base back up to 90% of all income rather than today's 82%), is designed to preserve social security and its basic benefits for the long term, and for the first time fulfill the promise of social security: to lift anyone who has had a long enough work history out of poverty. Let's cool off a little, and realize that this President is actually the one that's really trying to strengthen social security, and not just use it as a slogan and a whack-a-mole.

_______________________________________

Thank you deaniac83. Thank you.

Remember folks, this debt ceiling vote is a manufactured crisis of the Republicans making. If there is to be a deficit deal tied to the ultimate vote of raising the debt ceiling , right now it is all show. As Lawranece O'Doneel said: "Nothing is agreed to until eveything agreed to." We are not there yet.

Only the President was elected by the entire country, the people. That's why he gets to take stuff to the people.

Here's the stuff Wimpy Obama will take to the People tonight:

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"

The cycle must be broken. The hostage taking, threat downs, and trash talk by the GOP/TP have gone on long enough and will only continue if the president and Dems don't stop it now. The majority of the people are behind President Obama/Dems IF they stand strong and do the right thing for all.

Side Note (to Feisty, Navy) -- Cantor is the one who always has a smirk I'd like to biotch slap it off his face. Boehner looks like he's chocking back a crying jag.

More like - I'll take that hamburger today. Someone else will be by in a few years to pay for it.

Worked really good for Greece.

But I like the "gets to take stuff to the people."

What stuff? The stuff he didn't have two weeks ago? The stuff he didn't have last week? Wait, will there be new and different stuff he doesn't have today?

Should be fantastic. Meanwhile that's be another $4 billion down the toilet. Nice work.

Yawn. If I had a nickle for every good for nothing speech by this President.... When the Presentative makes the right speech I'll hear about it and watch it on the re-run.

Spanky and the Gang ~

Have you not yet realized that Obama just ran your side up the flagpole?

He will endorse a plan that buys a year solely through cuts. No revenue increases. Just like you guys always say you want. No tax increases.

Boehner's plan, on the other hand, is a lot more iffy, and doesn't buy a whole year.

How will Republicans justify NOT accepting the President's plan over Boehner's?

And who will buy it?

Make the deal.

The spending cuts are those agreed to under Vice President Biden's talks of $1.5 to 1.7 trillion. We realize you tune into FOX Noise so probably missed all that. If you want a break-down of what some of these cuts are, you can find it by reading about those negotiations.

This is from transcripts of the most recent press release:

President Obama: "Essentially what we had offered Speaker Boehner was over a trillion dollars in cuts to discretionary spending, both domestic and defense. We then offered an additional $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs — Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security."

The president went on to say:

"What we said was give us $1.2 trillion in additional revenues, which could be accomplished without hiking taxes — tax rates, but could simply be accomplished by eliminating loopholes, eliminating some deductions and engaging in a tax reform process that could have lowered rates generally while broadening the base."

The real reason Boehner, et al, aren't agreeing to this is because a smaller cut in spending will force a debate on the debt ceiling again before the election. As someone posted previously, this is silly "strategery" as it would only remind voters per Yves Smith's conclusion:

"The Tea Partiers make a fetish of invoking the Constitution when it suits them but will happily run roughshod over it when it conflicts with their pet wishes. Not that they are singularly guilty in this conspiracy against the public-at-large, but their faux holier-than-thou/populist pretense while aligning themselves with an elite power grab is particularly nausea-inducing."

BTW, 6 out of 10 people in Greece were not paying taxes. It's not just a spending problem, it's a revenue problem even more.

And though these facts have been posted a zillion times, if there's anything certain, it's that these facts will have to be posted a zillion times more.

AM: How will Republicans justify NOT accepting the President's plan over Boehner's?

First, the President has no plan. He just endorsed one (Reid's) that just happened to roll by his office.

Second, Reid's plan assures nothing will be cut until much later, if at all, while the $2.7 trillion in spending will be spent in 18 months.

So how does that look, end of 2012, and we'll have $16.9 trillion in debt? But those "cuts" will be coming along real soon after through. Right. Sure they will. And when does ObamaCare start collecting its taxes? And of course the Bush/Obama tax rates expire around that time too.

TP: BTW, 6 out of 10 people in Greece were not paying taxes. It's not just a spending problem, it's a revenue problem even more.

5 in 10 workers in America don't pay federal income tax.

What does it really matter whose plan it is?

And the Boehner plan gives us better assurance exactly how? How do you think Boehner will explain it so that the average person can understand it?

Simplicity is sometimes everything and has the benefit in this case of putting this mess to bed for a year or more.

Face it. Your side has been jobbed buy the master.

You have to make the deal or face the consequences.

Wouldn't wanna be you.

Oh come on AM - you know how this gets played.

Everyday it gets better and better for Boehner, as the dems concede more and more. Remember where Obama and the dems started? Funny how far they have come. No reason to think they are finished caving yet.

Jobbed by the master? That's absurd, unless Obama really loves him some deficit reduction. I tend to think not so much.

I'd hold off on going scoreboard - for any of them. It's far from over and then the actual problem has to be faced. Ceiling, smeeling, it's about the spending.

Which of course is the new and permanent focus. Even Pelosi said we need austerity. Nancy Frigging Pelosi.

But sure, the conservatives are the ones getting jobbed. Now where's Drive By, such a large softball for him and his brand of funny.

So you are at home now? You actually do this crap at home? Nothing better to do AM? I'm all for putzing around at the office, but at home too? Uh, no way Jose.

Spanky and JoAnne you have it backwards.

More like you went into a store and grabbed a hamburger without ever intenting on paying for it. Much like Bush did with the wars and tax cuts that have caused this whole catastrophe. That's called stealing. You don't care to even say, "Oh sorry, I forgot my wallet. I'll be back." because you, much like Donald Trump, think you are entitled to free stuff because you are who you are.

I'm still banking on the 14th being enacted tonight by our President. Who has the balls to take him on on that? Cry baby Boehner? SCOTUS so the nation can default? No he has the nations backing if he does enact the 14th.

Free stuff. You mean like entitlements.

Yeah, go one AnaB.

Oh and the is no way in hell he'd touch the 14th Amend. thing with a 10 foot pole.

If only, cause that'd be it.

Spanky,

Yes. Entitlements for the rich Donald Trumps of our country. Because all the rest of the citizens pay for their entitlements. No free lunch for us! And I just listened to him. He spoke well but didn't enact the 14th and should have.

Free stuff. You mean like entitlements.

They're not free, Spanky. Otherwise, just let me keep ALL of my payroll taxes.

It's like any insurance plan, and whether you get value for your premium and the company makes a profit necessarily depends on actuarial calculations. We need to make some adjustments to shore it up, but it's not free. If Congress spent time talking about that, rather than all this posturing, perhaps we could actually get somewhere that meant something.

There's a solution out there somewhere, if only we were sensible enough to look for it TOGETHER.

Neither side has been willing to put details down on paper for a media circus, most specifically the Duck, Dodge and Destroy bill (CC&B), which was a friggin' blank piece of paper.

The president provided his $4 trillion Big Deal proposal with savings from entitlements, and Republicans like what they heard. Just because the information is being exchanged verbally and/or in closed-door meetings does NOT mean there are no specifics. How else could there be negotiations, and what the heck are discussions about if there aren't any details? Come on people, use your noggins, of course there are. Neither Party is releasing it to you, the noggin-heads, that's all.

In regard to various plans, these are over the next ten years. Any attempt to make massive cuts overnight would be devastating. Reid's plan is for spending cuts only--yes, over ten years, and with hopes of agreement on more action over time--and if it is not guaranteed, well are revenue increases guaranteed? There's your answer.

But of course the GOP/TP is rejecting even Reid's "spending cut's only" bill. Because what the Tea Party faction wants is something draconian and unrealistic like CC&B, or defaulting, drastic things in an misguided belief of remaking our nation into something from the past--maybe fuedalism?What establishment Republicans want is no revenue PLUS cuts in Medicare so they can get cover for the very unpopular Ryan Plan. Boehner, et al, also want extreme cuts so the economy and employment rate will remain sluggish until 2012.

What the president wants is a longer-term solution to provide stability to the markets/economy and to preserve our good credit rating. What the president and Dems want is responsible governance, which includes getting our fiscal house in order, but not in a way that will hurt Americans and our coutry.

You may notice you never hear Republicans reference the middle class, or laborers, or compromise, or fairness, etc. Boehner's response was void of such words, and worse was intellectually dishonest if by nothing else than claiming a BIPARTISAN plan was passed in the House, or saying the president wants a blank check--where the heck did that come from? Or that the president is the one who created this crisis, and is the one who can't say yes--like who keeps walking away from discussions? How childish! Boehner said several other things that just made me laugh, though I admit I was only half paying attention to his blah, blah, blah, heard it before drivel.

If you believe "compromise" is not a dirty word, and is in fact what a two-party system is all about, and if you believe we need a balanced approach to the budget, contact you representatives today!

JS1 wrote:

5 in 10 workers in America don't pay federal income tax.

Thank you -- That's the point, revenue IS the problem.

And guess what, a crap load of that lack of tax income is coming from loopholes and outright tax evasion from the richest 2% -- the self-employed business owners who are not subjected to third-party reporting (W2) are responsible for 57% tax evasion. We could raise $6 billion from only 25 top hedge fund managers who currently pay a 15% tax rate due to a capital gains tax loophole. If we ended tax credits, we would see the working poor pay more in income tax too--that should make you happy, no?

Contact your representatives now and demand fairer revenue burdens.

So you are at home now? You actually do this crap at home? Nothing better to do AM? I'm all for putzing around at the office, but at home too? Uh, no way Jose.

And now the truth can be told. Just dull as dishwater, Spanky. See ya later.

Feisty,
Thanks. The twins are great. Definitely getting more sleep all around. My time on fr has been limited though. I still get in as many diggs on Spanky as I can manage. Otherwise I read and comment when I can. What's up with Bev? Anyone know?

I think I replied to this one somewhere else- if so, sorry.

Instead of Texas Hold 'em, they need to play something that better reflects their intellectual capacity. I suggest "rocks-paper-scissors". Unless, of course, two of the players signed a 'pledge' to not play with scissors.

It's a "mobius strip" firing squad...on you mark get ready, get set, say...

"It's YOUR fault!!!!"

Just when we need statesmen, we instead have reality tv stars who remain midgets even when standing on the shoulders of giants. Gamesmanship, brinksmanship and singing to the choir have left the ship of state adrift in a sea of accusations and partisan BS. BOTH parties are losing the people, with a "disapproval" rating of over 100 for the two parties combined. That seems too low, considering.

As for yet another speech talking about no agreement...

At least tonight's epi of "The Closer" won't be interrupted...

Excuse me, dangerfield, but I believe you just used a term from a foreign language.

What is a "statesman"?

Well when Barry O. has his little "I didn't cause this, GW did" speech tonight, will he have a plan of resolving the impass, or will he talk for ages while saying not much of anything?

Who will be the bad guy tonight, John, Eric, the GOP in total? Or could it be that Norquist guy?

Makes for some drama from Obama! How will the liberal news outlets spin this televised discussion, or will they further position the President in a good light while demeaning the GOP?

hunky?

Replying to?

I kinda said that both sides suck...

Did you know...

...and to confuse the situation even more...

Did you know?

Congress established the first national debt limit in 1917 setting up high-risk votes to increase the debt limit ever since. In 1979, Rep. Richard Gephardt proposed setting the debt limit automatically at the level projected by the most recent budget resolution. The rule, still in effect, allows for the debt limit to be raised without the House having to take an unpopular stand-alone vote. The only time the Gephardt rule was waived was in 1995, prompting 2 government shutdowns.

Just some trivia that I read...

Ira, Mark Levine must have read the same bit of trivia... he said the exact same thing on his show this afternoon. I heard it while driving from work. An interesting point was brought out. The government receives approximately $229 Billion each month in revenue. To service the debt, it takes somewhere in the neighborhood of $26 billion per month. Payments to social security, medicare/aid and service men both active and retired can easily be paid. What Obama is NOT saying is that all these things can be paid for. What he also isn't saying is that without the debt ceiling being raised, the government will have to shut down certain services. This of course is wildly unpopular with those going on furlough, or those people that will be laid off. Some contracts may not be paid... again a wildly unpopular move by the president and he will NOT mention any of this tonight. He is going to play the blame game and continue with the default speech. I'll be listening... and I'll be here right after the dog and pony show.

Keep this in mind when you listen to Obama tonight

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/29/barack-obama/obama-claims-his-regulatory-review-unprecedented/

Then, remember that this is the man who lied about his own dying mother.

Don't drink the KoolAde.

And don't, for heaven's sake, jump off your roof.

Listening to Oblabla right now. He's calling for fairness and blaming republicans for wanting to kill off social programs. He's back on the tax the rich kick. This guy is really something. He's hell bent on raising taxes on the rich... but doesn't spell out the fact that the revenue would be miniscule.

Now he's blaming the republicans again...

Debt ceiling raised18 times for Reagan... 7 times for Bush.

Blaming republicans again. Says they don't want to pay the bills... but he's not mentioning the fact that the ceiling won't stop our obligations. Wreckless and irresponsible again to republicans.

Again he wants to raise taxes on the wealtiest Americans. It's Obama's way or no way according to him.

Sounds like he wants to adopt the long range debt ceiling plan so he can avoid having to face this in the election.

People are fed up with Obama's BS! According to him people are fed up with Washington's divided government... but fails to mention he's a part of that divided government.

Now he's calling America a grand experiment. Well I mean the teleprompter is calling America that.

No wonder the republicans are having a hard time getting their message across... he gets all this free campaign time and it costs his campaign committee nothing.

OK... I listened to it... and I'm still of the opinion he's a liar. He's not changed his stance one bit. He's saying still that the US will default on our debt... that's a bald face lie. Not when they receive $229 Billion a month and the payment on the debt is $26 Billion a month.

Oh, goody.

Blame the republicans.

Quote Ronald Reagan.

Blame Bush.

Class warfare.

All in the most sickeningly condescending tone I have ever heard.

When his speechifying is gone, it's all gone.

Obama is toast.

Get it, Democrats.

Nope. Explain it to me.

And in all that, he forgets to tell people that when he was a senator, he voted "NO" to raise the debt ceiling... So..Mr President Flip-Flop is at it again! Obama makes for a great comedy sitcom!!

JK1963:]

And in 1934 FDR and the United States wanted treaties with Japan, but in 1941 wanted war.

So what is your tired, old, rhetorical RNC talking point? Things change. That is a fact, and seems to be one of you wingnuts' major problems.\

Why can't you guys GET WITH THE PROGRAM instead of working to destroy this nation?

Go sell your convoluted ideas to the tea party - true Americans aren't buying you bill of goods any more.

Not as stupid - so you actually believe that liberals are the only true Americans? Isn't that a little arrogant? I think it is. What gives YOU the right to say that I am not a true American because my ideology is different than yours? It seems to me that taking our debt limits to the sky is more destructive than trying to contain it and get it under control. Just because Obama wants to raise the debt ceiling to suit his needs, doesn't mean compliance is automatic. Whatever happened to reason? When does it end? When does it matter that we control spending? If not now, when?

BIG difference between a different ideology and overt opposition to my country and her head-of-state. I support your right to disagree with my President, but when you promote harm to my country by manifest oppostion, then you've overstepped the line.

You claim "taking our debt limits to the sky" is destructive. Are you stating that not paying our debts and fulfilling our obligations is NOT destructive? Please -- go on record with your position. Your post implies that you promote breaking our word and ducking our responsibilities as a statement of who the United States of America is as a nation. Let us be clear... IS THAT, IN FACT, WHAT YOU MEAN?? That is also what we = the people and voters - hear from the House of Representatives, Grover Norquist, Tea Party and, in fact, the Republican Party. If it is off center, you guys had better take steps to correct the image you have developed with this debate and the partisan games being played with our futures.

JUST STOP IT!! Grow up and do the job, which by the way, is NOT doing any and everything to make Obama a one term President, REGARDLESS OF WHAT NO CHIN MITCH MCCONNELL PREACHES.

You do. That's why you commented on this story, right?

Here's an advance copy of his "speech":

"My fellow Americans,

"Yeah, we're in a heap of trouble, but it's not my fault! It's those other guys that worship the elephant! They the ones that don't play fair! What am I supposed to do? Huh? No one told me this job was gonna be hard! They should give you a training course or an instruction manual or something when they hand over the keys to the White House. This sucks!

"It's just not fair! I wanna go home! I want my mommy!

"Good night and God bless."

Chris, tell the truth, you're really hoping he'll declare marshal law, right? Republicans love authoritarian figures, that's why they misbehave until someone (Obama) cracks the belt. They never can act like adults around him.

It's really hard to imagine Obama as an adult. He hasn't gotten past sandlot tactics and school yard rules yet.

He may be an adult, but he is no where near the room.

Kinda finds himself marginalized in a very adult like manner, eh Amy?

Nope, you got me all wrong there, Amy. I'm a law and order kind of guy. I'm just sick and tired of all the one-upsmanship going on in our government. This isn't what I voted for. Is this what you voted for? It's like a pissing contest that no one can win.

Chris, I favor the approach the President has outlined. Spending cuts, entitlement cuts, and closing tax loopholes. The Tea Partiers, however, are the ones risking our credit rating in order to....what?....what? Protect oil company subsidies and the incomes of hedge fund managers? Or are they just attacking President Obama himself? I can't understand the game they are playing, considering most Americans want the debt limited raised while spending cuts and revenue raising is applied to reduce the deficit. A deficit the Republicans contributed to creating in the first place! Don't give me this "both parties are equally to blame" business. The Democrats aren't threatening to make us default in order to protect entitlements.

Sure they are, Amy. They're just protecting entitlements that you like. It's the same thing. Kind of hard to see that forest in Maine when you keep staring at that one tree, isn't it?

Both parties contributed to this. Both parties are to blame. Don't believe for a second that one party is innocent in all this. At least you have come to realize that it's all just a game to them. Sadly, we are all just pawns in this whole charade.

I actually agree with you that we should make cuts in spending. In fact, I feel as though every program can and should be cut. I'm also in favor of removing loopholes in the tax code, and that includes ALL the loopholes. There should be a straight flat tax, with zero deductions, for ALL Americans, regardless of income level. Isn't that fair?

Chris, it doesn't seem to matter what you and I think, the opinion of voters from either Party don't count, what matters is what Big Money thinks. You and I are nothing. The politicians are playing for the attention of Wall Street types, campaign donors, not us voters.

The Tea Party represents the divorced-male, no friends and doesn't like his mother contingent, as I have seen in reality. These guys are not millionaires, but they identify with millionaires, and their biggest resentment is the idea some "unworthy" person, like a single mom, or a college age kid, or an elderly lady, might get some portion of his tax dollars. And they vote for Big Money because they'll be damned to support that Barack Obama, Prince of the undrclass (in their minds) and fantasy Dad of the younger set.

You mean lead like Boehner? Or Cantor? Or McConnell? That type of leadeship bob? I bet you spell your name backwards don't you?

I don't know Bryan, seems like Boehner is leading Obama to a deal that includes no increases and a bunch of cuts.

Or was that Obama's plan all along?

Man, he sure is smart then. Winning? no such much. Leading? Only from behind.

In case you missed it, Bryan, Boehner is a lot more popular than Obama. Check out the CNN poll.

I suppose Obama will come out with another temper tantrum, blaming the republicans for everything, and accepting no responsibility himself. The $4 trillion he added to the debt must be some kind of mystery to him.

So, I wonder who he'll blame for this

http://money.msn.com/stock-broker-guided/article.aspx?post=aeedf27d-af10-42ca-8ab3-edbedcd6063f

Unemployment is going up again, folks- and growth is stagnant. The year, I will remind you, is 2011- we are two and a half years into the Obama era.

I know who to blame. So, it seems does a majority of the electorate.

D@mned when he does -- for not doing it in public -- and d@mned when he doesn't.

My guess is that he's much more in charge that you can see.

Remember Osama bin Laden? Even Michele didn't know.

Let's go out on a limb NoJo - unemployment hits 10% by when?

I'm going with by the end of October.

Better question is when does GDP growth hit 0?

Regardless of what happens with the ceiling issue right now, Obama has a tragic road ahead. A road where his policies come home to roost and punish what's left of the economy.

Like Obamacare and the EPA regs. Anyone else notice the libbies all LOVING their Air Conditioning right now? Yeah, conservation kinda out the window right now. It should be a real hoot when a bunch of the coal fired plants go down because of the EPA.

How will they ever be able to charge up their Volts? They all have Volts, right?

If your idea of leadership means hiding behind your VP, snickering through interviews, only pretending to have a clue, and spending weekends cutting brush on your ranch, then, no, Obama isn't "leading."

Oh no you didn't! Back to Osama are we?

If only he could call in Seal Team 6. 1. I bet they could fix the debt ceiling issue, and 2. I'm kinda thinking those fellas are, oh, I don't know, a tad on the conservative side when it comes to fiscal and all other forms of responsibility.

When I used to only do defense work I loved getting ex military on the jury. Love the suck it up and take responsibility for your own damned self outlook. Very different from your average government worker.

Unfortunately, Spanky, liberals focus on the outcome they want, and ignore all the unforeseen consequences of their fee good agenda.

Fortunately, there are, truly, few liberals in the country. Unfortunately, the electorate was fooled by Obama, whose very campaign, as a pragmatic centrist, was a walking, talking, lie.

The electorate is not in a very forgiving mood. They punished the democrats last November. Next year is going to be a bloodbath.

Unemployment should be 12% today-but BLS has pushed millions out of the labor pool for the last two years. I believe they will move even more out, to keep unemployment under ten percent.

As to GDP- who knows? I think they'll report out weak, positive growth- then reassess, and reassess again, on the grounds that nobody pays attention to the adjusted numbers- just the initial number.still, I don't have much hope for the third quarter- and I never had a strong outlook for the second.

Thing is, people know what gas costs. They know what groceries coat. They know that they, or their neighbors, are unemployed. They know how their companies are doing.

In othernwords, they are not as ignorant as Obama and the democrats need for them to be.

They like Boehner, and do not like Obama. If we can make it through the next year and a half, we survive the Obama error.

Be nice

LoL Spanky.

Yes, I'll concede that Jack "You can't handle the truth" Nicholson is "very different from the average government worker." But he was the one who, despite all that bluster and high-falutin' self-righteousness, was perfectly willing to let the underlings take the fall, while it was the bleeding heart liberals who were fighting for them.

So gas is going up and up.

Time for another SPR release?

It was such a HUGE success last time, right?

Obama, alsway there with a kick ass plan. I just hope he hurries, the boat is empty and it takes a lot of gas to fill up. I hate having to blow $500 just to fill it up.

Ah, the price of happy fun times.

In case you missed it, Bryan, Boehner is a lot more popular than Obama.

Yeah, that explains why the approval ratings for Congressional Republicans are hovering somewhere between 25-28%, right?

www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm

oh look! Same site!

try cong_dem instead of cong_rep.

Looks like they're all floating with bad numbers.

Approve
Disapprove
Unsure

%
%
%

7/5-11/11

28
64
8

I'm sure you had a point. But I totally missed it. Please re-iterate.

So gas is going up and up.

Seems even the greedy, egocentric corporate wingnuts & t-nuts are nervous. Must realize that the President is going to come out on top in this one and they will have to start paying all their taxes VERY soon!

Hell hath NO FURY like a Republican who sees someone else get the dollar instead of him.

Pathetic!

Noid, I presume you can read.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/07/22/obama.aproval.pdf

Scroll down to peg fur, nd take a look at Boehner's approval numbers.

He's positive eleven.

Obama is negative nine.

Enough said.

Obama is negative nine.

Good Golly!

No one told me the election is being held tomorrow...

Obama/Biden 2012

Actually, I think those polls are awesome. For comic-relief purposes.

Like Joe Biden.

Look at his numbers. Old white males hate that guy, but apparently young non-white females sort of dig him. Ole Joe might still be a looker, have that 'dinstiguished' thing going on. who knows.

Or Boehner. Heck, his approval rating is positive...but I think the neatest part? The percentage of people saying 'never heard of him' goes down steadily over time. So, win or lose, he's getting press. And there's no such thing as 'bad' press, the saying goes. Another favorite saying? A politician can survive through anything except a dead girl or a live boy. Think about it :)

Or obama hisself. Wow. Whitey hates that guy. Especially elderly whitey.

see? If you look at the polls in an exercise in amusing sociology, they can be quite fun!

I usually enjoy your posts, t, but not tonight.

See, my country is circling the drain, the narcissistic twit destroying my country's taking to the airwaves to declare none of this is his fault, (and, perhaps, declare himself ready to do something unconstitutional to boot- giving us another impeachment to deal with),

And my cat, who would make a far better president than the nitwit currently holding the office, had a myocardial infarction Friday night. He's okay, but he has a pretty serious heart condition. Which sucks.

All in all, not a good month.

Boehner's poll numbers are the only bright spot. Shows me that folks are smarter than they were when they voted for Obama in 2008.

Seems there are a lot of people rethinking the wisdom of that decision.

teknishan and NOJO,

While we wait... this poll is amusing.

Percentage of those polled who never heard of:

Joe Biiden 6% Mitch McConnell 27%

John Boehner 12% Harry Reid 25%

Nancy Pelosi 7% Tim Geitner 28%

Eric Cantor 46%

Scroll down to peg fur, nd take a look at Boehner's approval numbers.

He's positive eleven.

Obama is negative nine.

Enough said.

Oh, I can read just fine...the question is, "How's your math?"

President Obama's approval is 45% in that poll. Speaker Boehner's favorable is at 43%.

Seems to me that comes out as President Obama +2 over the Speaker of the House, yes?

Come on Da Noid, you know the truth messes with their talking points.

They will be calling you names next.

You check out the negatives, noid?

Come on, you see the trend.

Obama is a disaster. You know it, I know it, the electorate knows it.

You want to "believe"? Want to go back to "yes we can"? Happy with "WTF"?

Maybe Jody will loan you her "bible". Maybe you have your own.

The cult of Obama is shrinking by the hour.

No matter what he tells you, you can't fly- so don't jump off the roof.

Don't drink the KoolAde, either.

Spare me...you gave me a poll that says, bottom line, the people still like the President more than the Speaker.

Well noid, you've just proved that democrats can't do math.

An eleven point approval, (a positive number) is greater than a nine point disapproval number, ( it's, actually, a twenty point deficit for your god).

No wonder the economy is such a mess. You guys can't do third grade arithmetic.

Really? So, 45 is now not greater than 43?

Cause those "cuts" are really anything but.

It was you who called it games. I prefer politicking.

Tell you what - help me and IRA understand how exactly spending less on wars that are supposed to be over is a "cut." We no understand.

But I assume you saw the good news? Admiral Mullen announced today that Libya is at a stalemate.

"Days not weeks" right Drive By? When we cut and run out of Libya will that also be a cut in spending? Sure it will be.

Because this way they get to beat the same dead horse twice!

What I don't understand is where the "cuts" are coming from.

Cuts against future wars and hurricanes....what does that mean?

Are these cuts against the funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Libya?

Future hurricanes?

Somewhere there must be funding for these events in order to cut them.

Not beating a dead horse cause you can't make cuts to programs that don't exist or are not already "budgeted" for.

Ira: Future hurricanes?

They're planning to sell naming rights.

If you want this to make sense, Ira, then you're not as jaded as you say you are. ;-)

Anna Molly..

That's funny...but not a bad idea though.

Some of us deal in fact as part of our business lives and it's just hard to accept the nonsense that passes for fact coming out of DC....and I blame both sides....both guilty of playing politics and word games and manipulating numbers.

The game of chicken needs to end cause the clock is about to run out.

The dead horse is the one they get to bring back and do this whole hostage thing again and then say it's Obama's fault again.

Nothing to move this country forward, no jobs, but got a plan for blaming President Obama, lets go for it

Democrats worked with bush to raise the debt limit even when they disagreed per Obama's senate statement. He may have disagreed (as well he should, as bush was spending us into oblivion) but the Democrats did not hold our country hostage and play terrorist games with our economy.

"bush was spending us into oblivion"

So American First, what exactly is Obama doing then? OR is his spending "good" spending, cause you cannot argue that Obama spends way more.

But Obama was right then according to your post. So all who are not in favor now must also be right, correct?

Yeah, too bad Obama wasted them first two years without lifting a finger to address jobs, right American First?

Funny stuff, your logic, such that it is.

You know as well as I do that the republican have obstructed everything that would move this country forward.

I find it interesting that tax cuts costing 2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS and then starting two wars costing 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS, one of choice is not spending us into oblivion. Republicans increased the debt without any way to pay for them or even considering maybe raising taxes to pay for our increased cost for our two wars. Just like I said bush was spending us into oblivion.

If he wasn't spending us into oblivion, then why are republicans so worried about the debt now. This debt didn't just magically appear when Obama became president.

I am guessing all that was fine. None of that bothered you, but the spending that is happening now to get us out of the hole, well that is unacceptable spending.

@Anna Molly

You are so right. Keep this crisis going beyond Aug as far as the eye can see. They started with this cut, cap, balance baloney. Get the conversation going around this non starter. Meanwhile, like WI, begin dismantling the workings of government.

I think we are all being used . The way out is to post like you have done, real issues about jobs, school lunch programs etc. What is happening in the real world and attempts to destroy the positive role of government in our lives.

I can begin to do the same. I can currently expand my free zone of no Sarah P@, to include crisis defict free zone. But I really want to continue on these boards so I will think about it....

That would be great. Bachmann and Pawlenty fall within your jurisdiction, too, if you're willing.

But as the time gets closer, I may fight you for Bachmann.

By all means, continue. You grace us with your presence. We need all the voices we can get.

Anna, I know there is enough material for both of us in following Bachman!! Pawlenty might not be around much longer. Need to wait and see after the Iowa Straw Poll. He will be easy to reaseach and set the record straight.

No I won't be going anywhere. Met a lot of great folks on these boards. Also, being very curious by nature, I have learned all knids of interesting facts and items by following the links of posters and reading their recommemded books. Enjoy doing my own research, like yesterday, discovering EX-Im Bank and what it does. Willl be posting about the help it gave to a small business in Duluth and employing 50 people with a trade deal with Russia.I just need to do a little more research.

Cheers! Waiting for the President's speech.

I thought it was great. Not everyone agrees. Sigh.

Go O'bama - he's started the Democratic Pea Party!

O'bama is finished he's gone in 2012

Now that is one fabulous idea! I'd vote for that. I know Pelosi,Reid,Rangel,Waters,Durbin and Barney Frank want to pay more taxes. haha

Heck yes, There is always Bi-Partisan support for raising someone elses taxes. On a serious note the debt ceiling has been raised so many times it can't be that difficult. But due to the poor leadership of Obama it's obvious he will be an ineffective leader for the rest of his term. I hope the Democrats realize this and put a better candidtae up in 2012......

And then we can take away medicare and social security from all those middle class Republicans. I wonder how that will fly? Be careful of the deals you ask to make.

Can't take away something people paid into there Jim, unless you think that's right?

LEONA,

Some of those mentioned don't even pay taxes, so how can they pay more?

Thanks Greg, I think you pretty much summed up the speech.....

Boehners response:

...yeabut...yeabut...yeabut...we passed cap cut AND balance...!

ok yeah, also he might weep just a little bit, but hey the guy does care....

You're more optimistic than I, Gregor. See, I'm afraid he is going to declare that he is "invoking the 14th amendment"- which even Lawrence Tribe has declared a non-starter.

So, in addition to the spectre of a default, we get a constitutional crisis.

At least he'll get convicted. I actually think the democrats in the Senate are salivating at the chance to get rid of Obama.

They remember his, "the difference between 1994 and now is, this time, you've got me". Turned out to be true- 2010 made 1994 look like a democratic lovefest.

Running for reelection with Obama at the top of the ticket? Political hari-kiri.

Ya no jo, it's hard to respond to so much hate mixed with lies.

You seem to forget that the majority of us in this country voted for President Obama and I for one will be voting a total Democratic ticket after this republican economic terrorist act.

Good thing the republicans outed themselves for being only for the rich at the expense of the poor.

It has become quite obvious a vote for any republican is a vote to destroy America. If you don't believe me ask the people in Wisconsin and Ohio, they know.

Obama 2012

Well, AF, you can't fix stupid.

Go ahead and vote for Obama.

I'm pretty sure even the mother in law will be voting against him.

You born yesterday- or did you see what happened in November?

Yeah American First - it is so obvious, right?

Deep thoughts as always. Keep up the good work. But I do wonder - how come there is an ever increasing backlash against Obama from the left? Surely they don't want to destroy America too, do they American First?

Gosh that's be bad.

America First,

It has become quite obvious a vote for any republican is a vote to destroy America

Wisconsin? Correct me if I am wrong, but the state's net new job gain for June is 9,500 jobs, more than half of the nation's net gain of 18,000 jobs for the same month.

Those evil republicans, what will they do next?

You guys keep on dreaming for the backlash. Going to hit before you know it. After all these games going on people are seeing. Seeing that the republican party stands only for the rich at the expense of the rest of the country.

Can't forget those sweet republican ready to start killing airports if democrats won't agree to killing union jobs. Only an evil person would do something like that.

People in Wisconsin and Ohio believed the very talk you are talking now and got screwed royally by the republicans. So much so Wisconsin recalled 6 newly elected members.
There's your mandate for you, voters remorse.

Ohio got all that talk about jobs and then the governor decided that destroying the unions was more important than jobs. Ohio doesn't trust republicans any more either. They got over 600,000 more signatures than what they needed to put it on the ballot. More voters remorse.

Those evil republicans, just what will they do next? Lie, lie by censorship, and of course hands down favorite blame Obama for everything.

I forgot,

Any vote for a republican is a vote to destroy America.

If you Hate children ,education, food for the poor, our national parks and forest, America, social security, medicare, medcaid, clean air and water. You better vote republican because they hate those things too. If you sign a pledge to drown the American government in a bathtub and in doing so kills America too and you are proud, you too could be a good republican.

Remember if you hate America, vote republican.

JoAnn--I know the Democratic party is a big tent and all, but would we really take in Boehner?

you guys needs someone with emotion over there since Anthony Wiener left ...

you got that right.

everyone talks about how smart Obama is (not just "thrill up my leg" Chris Mathews - you know, the middle aged dribbling Charlie Brown on MSLSD who proclaimed Obama was the smartest man ever to hold the office...) you'd think he'd be grabbing hold of that whole Clinton approach

it seems he's just too stuck on the angry liberal idealogical thing

Oh, you mean like the "Grand Bargain" that was supposed to be in the works...except that Boehner's gotta worry about placating the teabaggers who are pissed that the deal would include taxes so he walks out of the negotiations when he gets what he wants and that's that?

Gregor, are you talking about the Clinton that raised taxes several times along with spending cuts. Yes, he was successful, but because it worked we aren't allowed to go that route again.

Almost all the republicans have signed pledges with Norquist to guarantee that kind of success will never happen again. Wonder why?

onto other things like....jobs? I heard O'bama in early days talking jobs, in Nov 2010 talking jobs-jobs-jobs. but nada.

That would be great! wow I think I just agreed with a liberal!

we should drag Joe Biden out there and get that whole Recovery Summer Part Deux going, maybe it will catch on this time around

Gregor, I figured out why both parties talk a good fight on jobs but then fail to act. Folks without jobs have no money to donate to campaigns.

Indy Lib you may indeed be onto something there - also your blowing my mind here I'm not accustomed to agreeing with libs (no offense..)

Weird things happen from time to time.

for what it's worth, it was a pleasure (while it lasted...) lol

Perhaps we should be asking the Teapublicans where the jobs are. Didn't they run last year on "jobs-jobs-jobs-jobs"?

I've asked the teapublicans, just like I asked the dems before them. No one knows. Its like they fell into a negative reality vortex. Oh well, can't let a little thing like jobs get in the way of good theater.

http://draftberniesanders2012.org/

Yes please we are tired of the BS. Republicans please take your BS and go.

I don't watch faux for a reason and don't need to have their talking points repeated here over and over.

I know I am just a libtard, and yet I am not dumb enough to vote republican. Be proud republicans, you are dumber than a libtard.

We got it, you hate Obama and its his fault.

And cut the spending on all but the rich, we need to keep adding debt for their tax cuts.

And truer words were never spoken....

We can debate this without holding the country hostage to economic ruin. Hostages is how terrorist play. Really think that is the best way to run a government.

AF,

Hostage, terrorist? How about drama queen?

Every other time the debt ceiling just got raised. Of course you agree to pay the bills you incurred.

Whose the drama queens here, its the ones that are holding our economy hostage to continue to add tax cuts for the richest in America to our debt, and at the same time make cuts to programs for the poor. Oooo.... they are so important now. Dancing in the spotlights drama queens.

The house republican are in a place to do serious harm to our country and have made ridiculous demands unless we give them what they want they want to kill America.

You know like you are holding someone and threatening to kill them if you don't get what you want. A hostage situation like a terrorist would do.

Instead of passing a clean debt ceiling bill and argue over the budget at budget time they hold our economy hostage to keep from any compromise whatsoever because they can.

We have a democratic president, a democratic senate and a republican house. I just don't see where you think the mandate came from to run roughshod over our country. Do what we say or else.

The tax cuts are spending 2.7 Trillion dollars so far. For a party so worried about spending, this little item of 2.7 Trillion and growing is not a problem. The only difference is that money is going to the rich. Welfare for the rich and they don't even need it.

The real plan was with this cut, crap and balance was to make it impossible to ever raise taxes on the rich again. As the debt grew with tax cuts then more money had to be cut for the poor. So on and so on because we can never raise the taxes again without 2/3 majority. The republican plan was that would never happen. Any disasters or more war would have to come at the expense of more cuts to the poor, social security, education, food, medicare would all be included in their cuts.

The main purpose was to never raise taxes on the richest in America again.

and you, calling people names because you can't come up with an argument. who's the drama queen here.

Sounds like you already got your helping of fear and blame from faux.

Unless we agree to the demand of the republicans that taxes are never raised on the rich again, then they intend to trash America.

Sounds like someone who loves America to me.