Still No Solution:

On Friday Speaker Boehner walked out on the debt ceiling talks with our President and showed disrespect for the Office of the President by not returning President Obama’s phone calls. Then there was the commitment to have a tentative bill by 4:00 on Sunday evening; before the Asian stock markets open. That didn’t happen either. Boehner stated the obvious that it is hard to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.

Then came the most outrageous notion of all: A Super Congress. Clearly that is an admission by the debt negotiators that Congress is broken. A brief look at this Super Congress notion spells only additional gridlock. The people who would make up the Super Congress would be die-hard party members who would not “cave in” on issues of substance. Moving the chairs does not fix the real issue. Tea Party Republicans are not willing to compromise. Additionally, any bill to create a Super Congress would very likely be unconstitutional.

So putting that nonsense behind us, we have a Boehner plan which is short term and a non-starter for Democrats, and a Harry Reid plan which does include spending cuts without raising taxes. Tea Party Republicans will say the cuts are not deep enough and will likely not support any bill. So today there will be more posturing and chest pounding. Meanwhile the agencies responsible for determining credit rating are pulling out their long knives and the stock market will likely fall.

I would like to wake up tomorrow morning thinking this issue will be solved. But I’m likely to be disappointed. Boehner is no leader and the guy looking over his shoulder (Cantor) is even more irresponsible. As it happened with Newt Gingrich, the economic crisis will rest at the feet of John Boehner and the Tea Party freshmen.

While the little children play in their sandbox fighting over their toys this country is heading toward an economic and cultural (social) storm that will rival any in the History.

Late Friday afternoon Boehner walks away from the Debt Ceiling bargaining table for the second time, making it the third time that the GOP/TP has picked up their little shovels and left the sandbox. People, President Obama said Friday that if you want to be a leader you have to lead, this is not leadership on the part of the GOP/TP. This is “Cut and Run” and in Vermont we call it cowardice.

Thursday, after it was reported by Norquist a few days prior that allowing the Bush Tax Cuts to expire would not violate the oath that the GOP/TP embraced over the oath they took when they were sworn into political service, President Obama called Rep. Boehner suggesting they revisit allowing the tax cuts for the top 2% to expire in 2012. He leaves a message stating that if he cannot accept this to call hem back. The White house follows up with several phone calls and e-mails, all ignored by Boehner until 5:30PM on Friday where he calls the President and says he is breaking off all talks.

Supposedly what is at stake here is that President Obama called Rep. Boehner and suggested they revisit an additional $400 Billion in revenues, most say this was the expiration of the tax cuts for those making a taxable income of $500,000 or more and some other tax loopholes – which by the way was not new, this has been proposed before and was rejected by the GOP/TP. From virtually report it was also stated that if Rep. Boehner had a problem with this to call him. He did not and that is not good leadership. He could have responded to the repeated efforts of President Obama and told him that the (GOP/TP) had a problem with anymore revenue increases other than what was agreed upon - $800 Billion. He did not and this told me that Boehner never really had the support he claimed and he was desperately looking for a way out.

Nobody knows where this is going until we get there. President Obama wanted a Clean Debt Ceiling Bill but the GOP/TP wanted to make the Debt Ceiling about Spending Cuts and the Deficit. This is two different animals and should have, as I have said before, been addressed as separate issues. Since JFK the Debt Ceiling has been increased 74 times. During Regan it increased 18 times and most recently under Bush it increased more than a half- dozen times.

People this is not about the Debt Ceiling, never was. It was an open attack on Spending Cuts using the Debt Ceiling as hostage while the GOP/TP tries is dismantle the government. Just about every economist of note says cutting spending in a weak economy is not a good idea. They also say that if you do spending cuts then you need revenue increases as well, a point the GOP/TP will not address, hence the stalemate we now have.

This was and is the GOP/TP Plan – the destruction of the government as we know it, interest rates are going to go up, we are going to lose our AAA rating and the unemployment will increase and the economy will stall or even retreat. Just look what they did on the refunding of the FAA. They would not refund it unless anti-union legislation is attached. People this is an overt attack from the radical right on America, PERIOD. They are the “Hostage Party”.

Our President put everything on the table for discussion including DOD, Entitlements, Tax Reform and non-discretionary spending cuts. He also put his political career on the line for this country and what has the GOP/TP put on the table – absolutely nothing, in fact they want to “Cut and Run” trying to avoid all responsibility. Let us not forget that a major part of our current Debt (Debt Ceiling) comes from the previous administrations two unfunded wars, two unfunded tax cuts and a huge unfunded Drug Bill that has added trillions and trillions to the Debt for which we are STILL PAYING.

Now these guys are talking about some “Super Commission”. Oh great lets see we have the President, The Senate and the House and they want to create another entity called the “Super Commission” with super powers. That has to be the worse idea yet and has all the markings of a single party government in effect.

Apparently Barry is now the “only adult not in the room”. And he is putting the debt default issue in the hands of a moron, Harry Reid. All because he moved the goal posts at the last minute by demanding a 50% increase in new taxes from $800 billion to $1.2 trillion. As one of the FR lefty liberals said over the weekend “It’s only $40 billion per year and Boehner should just accept it.” Well, that argument is just as persuasive in reverse: It’s only $40 billion per year and Barry should not have blown up the talks by trying to slip it in at the last minute.

From Politico:

Obama's sidelines gamble
By: Glenn Thrush
July 25, 2011 04:34 AM EDT

Congress is eating its peas without Barack Obama.

As world markets began reacting to the growing possibility of a previously unthinkable U.S. governmental default, Obama was barely visible for much of the weekend, a jarring shift from three weeks of press conferences, White House negotiating sessions and public warnings to “irresponsible” Republicans.

But on Capitol Hill, House and Senate leaders groped for a way out of the debt ceiling crisis, struggling to make the tough choices that Obama famously compared to eating the vegetable his daughters disdain.

The partisan estrangement wasn’t Obama’s choice - House Speaker John Boehner pulled out of talks on Friday over Obama’s insistence that he swallow an additional $400 billion in revenue hikes — and Obama spoke to the speaker by phone Saturday night and on Sunday, aides say.

But being on the sidelines isn’t exactly an unfamiliar – or undesirable — position for a president who views himself as a legislative closer with a penchant for asserting himself late in the game, at the moment of maximum leverage.

This time, however, he’s forced to rely on mercurial Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) as his proxy.

It’s a real roll of the dice: Even by Obama standards it’s dangerously late for him to be out of direct negotiations with a GOP opposition that doesn’t trust, like or respect him – and no one in the White House is quite sure how it will turn out.

Feisty:

President Obama has put everything on the table including DOD, Entitlements, Tax Reform and Discretionary Spending including his own Political Career. What had the GOP/TP put on the table?? Absolutely nothing. In fact they keep walking away from the table because they are liars and frauds.

This is not about the Debt Ceiling this is about Power and Greed.

Looks like for now that Wall Street is adopting a wait and see attitude. This will not last much longer I am afraid.

MSM: "House Speaker John Boehner on Friday abruptly walked away from talks with the White House over a landmark deal to reduce the national debt, throwing into chaos efforts to raise the legal limit on government borrowing just 11 days before the U.S. Treasury is due to run out of cash."

REALITY: "President Barack Obama on Friday poisoned talks with Speaker John Boehner over a landmark deal to reduce the national debt by insisting on higher revenues than had previously been agreed to, thereby throwing into chaos efforts to raise the legal limit on government borrowing just 11 days before the U.S. Treasury is due to run out of cash."

Now that we've set the record straight on that point, the question becomes why did the president take that approach? Answer: he felt the heat from his left flank. So apparently it's OK for the Dems to draw a line in the sand based on their principles, a line that could lead us to not raising the debt ceiling. But when Republicans make a similarly principled stand that could lead to the same consequences, they're branded as "intransigent" folks who can't say yes to anything. Hogwash!

And can you believe the president's performance at his presser late Friday? He makes this difficult situation even worse by going into National Scold mode and dropping napalm all over what's left of any bridges between the two sides. Good grief, it's a good thing this guy isn't leading the NFL labor negotiations, we might not see another football game in our lifetime.

Then he "summons" congressional leaders to the White House for a Saturday meeting. Gee, I always thought Congress was a co-equal branch in our government not subject to a "summons" from the president or anyone else. But this Me First president doesn't care about such constitutional niceties, it's all about him. Hope he had a nice chat with those folks, it might be the last time a Republican will be in the room for a while.

So now what? Beats the heck out of me, but I'm still putting my bets on the Republicans. The House will put together a heaping plate of cold peas that will be enough to get us through the immediate crisis – and dare the Senate and the president to oppose it. Then we'll find out if the Dems can say yes to anything – or whether they'll push us over the edge because the Republican approach might be inconvenient for Democratic electoral prospects.

P.S. Obama and the Dems say they oppose a short term increase in the debt ceiling because it would create prolonged "uncertainty" that could be harmful to the U.S. economy. This from the same cast of characters who have consistently pooh-poohed the notion that American businesses aren't hiring in part because of their "uncertainty" about the prospect of higher taxes and the impact of HCR and other regulations. Just another example of the Dems trashing an argument used by their opponents, but using that very same argument when it suits their purposes.

But this Me First president doesn't care about such constitutional niceties

You of ALL people Bill, would recognize a 'me-firster'... lol

Boehner is a fraud and liar. He never had the support of the Teabaggers and was looking for a way to run away from the table like Cantor did. He is using the $400 Billion as an excuse. President Obama did not demand it, he suggested it and left the door open for Boehner when he told him that if he had a problem with it to call him. Boehner saw this as his way out and ignored President Obama and then tries to use this as the game buster. BS it is an excuse for a liar.

A REAL LEADER would have called the President and tell him they have a problem with this additional revenue increase. Gutless Boehner decided to "Cut and RUN". In Vermont this is not leadership, it is being a gutless coward and a dishonest one to boot.

Everyone hold hands and sing together ....

My plan's better than your plan

My plan's better than yours

My plan's better 'cause it has [revenue enhancement] [tax breaks]

My plan's better than yours.

And there you go conservatives, now isn't that better?

Supermex and Barrack Obama

One of my favorite sports characters of all time is Lee Trevino.

As a kid, after going to school and his jobs, he spent his free time sneaking into the Dallas Athletic Cub to play golf with a few golf balls and an old golf club his uncle had given him. The little “Merry Mex” talked his way into a job there at age 14, caddying and shining shoes for $30 a week.

He practiced golf behind the caddy shack, hitting 300 balls a day after work. He earned extra money hustling competitors using a taped-up 32 oz. glass Dr. Pepper bottle. The rest is a great story, but afterall this is a political blog …….

Obama is a golfer too, and actually reminds me of Trevino.

No, of course not for winning Open championships, or any other great achievements and ……. no, it is not their swings – neither of which are pretty …….. it is that when it comes to being POTUS, Obama reminds me of a little kid trying to learn the game with one club.

I don’t know what club it was that was given to young Lee, but Obama’s is definitely a putter.

Put a budget on the tee and what does Obama do? He putts. (Still putting 800+ days later.)

Obama gets an invitation for a round in Libya and what clubs does he bring? A putter. (How long do you think it will take for Barack and his putter to get out of that giant sand trap?)

Even given a tap-in eagle, the ball sitting on the edge of the cup like Boeing wanting to open a new plant in S. Carolina that would bring new jobs and economic development …….. Obama turns to the union caddy ….. the caddy says his green notes show it is a 40 footer that breaks 18. [Explanation to golfers: It always breaks to the left with Obama.]

And really, who does this guy think he is ……. that thinks he can tell an American company that is expanding, creating new, additional jobs where they can go …….King Putt?

Have the ball sitting in the middle of the fairway after the special commission pros blasted a great drive of a report …. and Obama putts it over to the Biden rough ….. then putts it back to the repubs …. then putts it over to the press tent complaining the repubs won’t hand him the give-me .……… then putts some more while blaming the other guys ……. the others finally just decide to play through, go around this hack – it’s just too hopeless with this guy.

This is not about the Debt Ceiling this is about Power and Greed.

You are SO right Navy!

Simple fact of the matter is, President Obama could give in to their every DEMAND and they would still say... HELL NO!

Thankfully, the curtain has been pulled back and the audience wants a FULL refund!

It's pretty damn hard to deal with a House that signed a pledge to Norquist.

Sick irresponsible Republicans.

Senator Reid has handled himself like the statesman that he is. He seems truly pained by the crap Boehner and Cantor are doing. Truly pained.

Well, this is the House we the people voted for.

Congratulations. What a tragedy that people have no clue who or what they're voting for.

An American Tragedy.

And Bernie Sanders blames Obama, as does Krugman and the left.

President Obama has had to compromise to pass a freakin' deal. He's dealing with disingenuous people.

The Democrats and Bernie Sanders are backstabbers. Plain and simple. Put the blame where it belongs.

With the Republicans. How hard is that to understand?

Nancy Pelosi probably lost the House because she was one of those "pushy broads" Barney Frank writes about. It's what happened to Elizabeth Warren he said. So sad. Pushy broads aren't welcome in DC.

Martha Coakley loses an election because of a stupid baseball comment. And now the media are wondering if Elizabeth Warren will make the same mistake if she runs for the Senate up here.

I bet they wouldn't ask if it were a man running.

No of course not.

Does no one out there find it scary that the Administrations wants the debt ceiling raised by 2.3T simply to get them through to January 2013? That's less than two years. Our GDP as published by the world bank is 14.12T (2009), so this would 16% of GDP added to the debt by inauguration day 2013.

Raise revenues all you want but the spending has to stop.

Boehner did not walk away - he "RAN" away like the despicable little whiner he is.

Look the "Hostage Party" is not interested in solving the Debt Ceiling and they will do everything they can to stall it. It is all about them getting the whole pie, the lost the ability to compromise a long time ago. With them ii is always "all or nothing". You cannot run a country with that ideology. It has been tried before and failed.

FR: "But it is important to note that Republicans started this fight by tying deficit reduction to the debt ceiling (when many of these same Republicans have voted for clean debt-ceiling hikes in the past). The president and his party have indicated their willingness to pay the ransom -- with some concessions -- but Republicans won't accept it. The irony to all this is that Republicans have won the larger argument they started; they just haven't figured out how to declare victory."

Typical FR junk. It's not that the Republicans haven't figured out how to declare victory, it's the Dems haven't figured out how to accept resounding defeat.

As to the idea that Republicans "started this fight," what's your point FR? Republicans voted for clean debt ceiling hikes in the past, so what? This isn't the past, this is now. And now the debt is up to over $14 trillion. And now the ratings agencies are threatening to lower our credit rating. Both of those things make "now" a lot different from those days of yore before now.

Furthermore, and here's the real point, Republicans have the power NOW to influence events in such a way as to push the country onto a better path. So why should they lift their boot off the Dems neck? Victory isn't winning a small skirmish, victory is winning the big battles that determine the outcome of the war. And Republicans aren't quite there just yet.

That ship has sailed. The Republicans have behaved like psychopaths; irresponsible doesn't even cover it.

Republicans want to prove they can govern.

Ron:

Then came the most outrageous notion of all: A Super Congress. Clearly that is an admission by the debt negotiators that Congress is broken.

Sadly, Ron, the first hint of this admission came with the Debt Commission itself, which was also like a "Super Congress" in that it empowered Congress to shirk its responsibility to act as a unified body representing the interests of all the people. We didn't need a commission to tell us that we need to solve the debt problem. And we elected Congress -- not some shadowy outside group -- to do that for us.

What are we paying those 535 people for, if not to be a real Congress?

US Navy, Boehner can't pass a decent fair bill in the House. So everyone blames the President. Boehner, Cantor, DeMint - fruitcakes who are protecting the wealthy. How hard is that for people to understand?

Martha Coakley loses an election because of a stupid baseball comment. And now the media are wondering if Elizabeth Warren will make the same mistake if she runs for the Senate up here.

Keep believing that Pat. Brown won because he pounded the fact that he would be the 41st vote against a healthcare reform that was not, and still is not, supported by the majority of people. I think you have a fine Senator in Scott Brown.

In NY I think Kirsten Gillibrand has been a real find considering how she started and if you want a prediction, Cory Booker will either be the next governor of NJ, I don't think he will challenge Christie in 2013 but will wait, or be the next Senator. (I wish he would challenge Menendes).

That ship has sailed. The Republicans have behaved like psychopaths; irresponsible doesn't even cover it.

Because the responsible thing is to keep spending at the current levels, and to maintain SS and Medicare by borrowing 40% of their costs?

The Obama Diary:

Vince Cable (UK Government Business Secretary) has launched an extraordinary attack on “rightwing nutters” in America who are trying to block the raising of the US government’s debt ceiling and who are, he said, a bigger threat to the world economy than problems in the eurozone.

… He said: “The irony of the situation at the moment, with markets opening tomorrow morning, is that the biggest threat to the world financial system comes from a few rightwing nutters in the American Congress rather than the eurozone.”

Negotiations on raising the US government’s debt limit above its current level of $14.3tn (£8.7tn) collapsed in acrimony late on Friday over details of a package of spending cuts and tax rises that would help to pay for such a move.

A visibly angry Barack Obama attacked the Republican speaker of the house, John Boehner, for refusing to return his phone calls and said he had been “left at the altar” in trying to reach an agreement. Most experts agree that if the US were to default on its debt payments, stock and bond markets worldwide would plunge, threatening a new great recession. The deadline for agreement is just over a week away, on 2 August……

http://theobamadiary.com/

____________________________________________

This is how the world is seeing our Congress. Glad someone somewhere is being honest.

Look, this is no longer about how we can help this country move forward. It has become more of what can we do to screw the other guy. This attitude will not work and will destroy the country as we know it.

The Speaker knows he serves at the pleasure of the Tea Party Patriots. If he knows whats good for him and many other establishment rinos, he will hold.

cry libs, cry as the "astroturf" restores our Republic.

liberals, the future is clear: the complete elimination of your destructive philosophy and influence is next.

A visibly angry Barack Obama attacked the Republican speaker of the house, John Boehner, for refusing to return his phone calls and said he had been “left at the altar” in trying to reach an agreement. Most experts agree that if the US were to default on its debt payments, stock and bond markets worldwide would plunge, threatening a new great recession. The deadline for agreement is just over a week away, on 2 August……

I hope you watched the MTP interview with Trent Lott and Tom Daschle. Senator Daschle explained that it was pointless to return a call [even to the President] if nothing had changed.

BTW it appears that the August 2nd deadline was a date created by the Administration. It just add fuel to the fire that they wanted this out of the way before the Presidents big 50th birthday bash.

Happy Birthday Mr President, and many more.

How You Know The GOP Negotiators Were NEVER Serious

With Mitch McConnell's declaration earlier this year that his main political goal is ensuring that Barack Obama is a one-term president, everything else that has happened since makes sense. But there's something that happened in the negotiations between the White House, Congressional Democrats and Congressional Republicans that tells you, beyond a doubt and without any room for argument, that the GOP "leaders" were never serious about reaching a compromise package on raising the debt ceiling and comprehensive deficit reduction...

The individual mandate is the one main thing in health insurance reform that ensures that enough people are in the program to make it financially viable. Any Republican efforts to remove it are simply crass and obvious attempts to ensure its demise. The fact that they added this to the deficit reduction/debt ceiling debate at the 11th hour makes it clear as day that they were never going to say "Yes" to anything and that this has been a charade all along. There is simply no other conclusion that you can draw from this. Period.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2011/07/debt-ceiling-individual-mandate-how-you.html

____________________________________

The man who wrote this very thoughtful article is the same man Hamsher's employee said would never "work in this town again" or something to that effect.

He nailed it here with this article.

Obama has been a failure as a President and a coward during this debt/defit crisis!

Some time ago President Obama stated he would fight the right fight if necessary.

feisty: After watching the President's press conference Friday night, I would fathom to say, he's fully committed to taking it to the streets for the middle class.

Which part of this simple statement by Thomas Jefferson that the Obama Administration finds so hard to understand:

"A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them othnerwise free to regualte their own pursuets of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government."

None of Obama's actions over the last 3 years even remotely follows this advice!

fiesty library has no T.Jefferson, but I'm sure she has Obama's book "Humility and its Virtues", and "What the Constitution Means to Me", by Nancy Pelosi

No one reading this - NO ONE - can comprehend one-trillion. That's one-trillion of anything; rocks, gallons, ounces, and certainly DOLLARS. Yet, here we are, along with a clutch of legislators, talking about these numbers as though we have a clue.

The federal budget is short MORE than a trillion-dollars. The budget itself is MORE than four-trillions. The nominal Gross Domestic Product has run at about 13-trillions for the last three years. (It's probably more, but for obvious reasons no one knows how much is generated under the table.) The national debt is around 14-trillions. It would require the entire Gross Domestic Product for one year to retire the national debt. That means no one - including the largest corporations and the richest of the rich - keeps one cent. Everything they make is turned over to the government.

This is the official irony paragraph. Most debt is held by Americans - mostly by very rich Americans, although some is held by regular folks via their retirement investments. However, a substantial amount is held by foreign countries. Maybe it's time to broaden one's perspective when it comes to income redistribution. (I'll help. The rich get richer.)

Back to the trillions. Remember the beginning of the millennium? The Congressional Budget Office told us that we would have the entire national debt retired this year. That's right - this year. It would be gone. Yet, here we are 14-trillions in the hole.

How is it possible that we continue to pretend that only a few people are at fault? At the beginning of the millennium, it would seem our legislators took a secret oath to go on a spending spree that would make a drunk sailor look like a model of fiscal conservatism. We liked it. We must have, because we kept mighty silent while this was going on.

Suddenly - and that's the right word, suddenly - we discover that we just might be in a bit of trouble. Republicans, goaded by the screaming Tea Party, seem to think that we can freeze the debt. You have to know anyone who believes that is so far beyond stupid, there is simply no way to reason with them. These people flatly do not understand the federal budget.

There is an equally intransigent faction in the Democratic Party that says there are "safety net" programs that cannot be touched. Again, such thinking flies in the face of fiscal reality and there is no way to reason with this crowd.

Now, if only we could throw out those extreme views, we might be able to come to grips with our problem. BUT WAIT! Who do we send out from the Republican side? Can you imagine sitting down opposite Jon Kyl? This is the guy who says something and then tells us it wasn't meant to be factual. Oh yeah, there's a guy whose word you can trust. How about Eric Cantor? He scares the potty water out of Boehner and they're supposedly on the same team.

So you send out your front-line guys. We know Pelosi can get the job done. Really, whether you like her or not, that is a tough cookie. But we don't know too much about where she stands although she's pretty firm on keeping hands off Social Security and Medicare. Harry Reid? Does anyone really know where he stands? How about Mitch McConnell? This is the guy who has openly stated that he wants Obama to fail. Now there's a firm foundation for negotiating. How about Boehner? He's scared of his own troops. Then there's the President. We don't know what he wants. Did he really ask for more revenues above and beyond the mere 800-billion? Will he really accept cuts? Is he the tool of the bankers as the left wing insists, or is he the socialist, commie, pinko, Marxist as the right wing insists? Who knows what's going on?

Worse, not one of them could tell you how much is a trillion.

US Navy: This is not about the Debt Ceiling this is about Power and Greed.

Exactly Navy. And that is why we get this silly excuse from Obama and his minions that the debt ceiling must be raised so the next one won't happen until 2013. Don't you find that a bit odd Navy? Obama, the brand new debt hawk President knows he'll be spending $2.5 TRILLION dollars in deficit spending over the next 18 months, and Obama wants to make certain it doesn't become an election issue. Sounds like Obama wants to take some borrowed wealth and "spread it around", probably to some swing states for next years election.

Obama talks about raising $1 billion for his campaign next year, but that's not his real campaign money. Obama wants the debt ceiling raise of $2.5 TRILLION to buy votes where he needs them. Power and Greed indeed.

Pledges to Kings and Loyal Servants (Nordquist, Focus on the Family, The Family Leader, Marriage Vows, etc.). Any legislator who signs Pledges to people or groups does not deserve to be a legislator earning a taxpayer-funded paycheck. They are elected to serve ALL the constituents, not just those who agree with the "pledges" candidates sign. Their only alligiance and "pledge" should be to the U.S. Constitution, nothing more and nothing less. Voters need to be asking their candidates what pledges they have signed because those pledges tie their hands and prevent legislators from doing what is right and necessary for ALL not just some.

Isn't it time voters ask candidates to pledge their service to the country, all the citizens and not to the false kings and gods?

I don't know what the Repub "leaders" think they're accomplishing by repeatedly walking out of these budget talks. It may titillate teabaggers, but to normal people, it makes Republicans look like North Koreans negotiating over nukes.

This is how the world is seeing our Congress.

_____________________________________________

John Vincent "Vince" Cable (born 9 May 1943) is a British Liberal Democrat politician and economist who is currently the Business Secretary in the coalition cabinet of David Cameron.

This kook’s opinion carries about as much weight as LWNJ Alan Grayson or MSDNCs Mr. Ed.

Pat:

Great post and good to see you back on a roll. The new republican party - The Hostage Party of NO, is not interested one iota in moving this country forward and we better wake up to that fact.

Karl Rove, ALEC, the Koch Bothers etc all have a different idea or dream on what this country should look like. These guys are out for themselves. They want to control and own everything and the rest of us will be allowed to exist to lick their boots in order to get table scraps and they will demand that will be happy that they allow us to do that.

This arrogant self servings Hostage Taking Party of NO are going to destroy this country as we know it. Make no bones about it. A banana republic will be a step up when these guys get done.

We will be a society based on class. They are doing it right now in front of us. They are creating their class base as we sit and watch.

DW: So you send out your front-line guys. We know Pelosi can get the job done.

She sure can. She took time out during the debt crisis to fly up to a Connecticut fundraiser for fellow Rep Rosa DeLauro. No word on the take, but with Ms. Pelosi keynoting the event, you know it was pretty big.

That woman can certainly multi-task.

I am sick and tired of hearing about how we are in different times now. While true in a very limited sense, thanks to the mismanagement of the previous administration, we have spending problems, revenue problems etc. But the bottom line is that this is still America and the ideology that the GOP/TP is on is not the ideology that built this country. It is an ideology that has failed time and time again and will fail here as well unless we are prepared to totally give up everything we believe in, give up those ideas that built this nation and trade them in for an ideology that believes in a Class Based Society controlled by only a few and the rest of us exist only for their benefit. Once we are no longer of any economic value to them they will discard us as they would do with a used up piece of machinery. This is where we are heading and I for one will not be on that train.

The GOP/TP is re-writing what and who we are and what they wants this Country to become is not viable under our current beliefs. Something will need to change.

May I remind everyone that the president does not control the budget of this country. This is mandated by the constitution to congress. If we are in debt, it is because congress voted for it, and allowed it to happen. I recall a lot of these same concerns back in 2001, when congress passed the Bush tax cuts, without also cutting spending.

Fiesty, republicans didn't turn down a 3 trillion dollar deal as stated by the prez in his press conference. What he described was 1.65 trillion in cuts over 10 years. His words, his numbers. That won't even equal what he wants for short term spending of 2.4 trillion increase. Cut, cap and balance proposed a little over 5 trillion over ten years and S & P and moody's wanted to see around 4 trillion over 10 years to avoid a downgrade.

Another sticking point was the fact that the prez and Boehner had supposedly negotiated revenue increases, most likely closing loopholes and deductions, of 800 billion and came to an agreement. Then after that BO came back and wanted a 50% increase to that AFTER they had agreed to the first amount. Boehner said this in his follow up press conference and the white house didn't deny it.

What gets me is a bill was passed in the house and sent to the senate. The senate didn't like it but could have brought it up for discussion and made all the ammendmants they wanted. They just tabled it and never brought it up for discussion or ammendmants.

In the Navy: The new republican party - The Hostage Party of NO,

Bi-partisan agreement goes nowhere with Obama:

A Republican aide e-mails me: “The Speaker, Sen. Reid and Sen. McConnell all agreed on the general framework of a two-part plan. A short-term increase (with cuts greater than the increase), combined with a committee to find long-term savings before the rest of the increase would be considered. Sen. Reid took the bipartisan plan to the White House and the President said no.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/white-house-stokes-debt-ceiling-crisis/2011/03/29/gIQAvx8DYI_blog.html

Now that Obama, the only claimed adult in the room, isn't in the room anymore because of his constant tantrums, now maybe he can come out in front of the press every hour to rant about how he hates the Republicans for them not letting him spend more and more borrowed money.

So now Cenk Uygur is going after Reverend Al Sharpton: Huffington Post:

Speaking to a slightly skeptical Howard Kurtz, Uygur repeated his charges. Kurtz said that Uygur seemed not to have any direct evidence that MSNBC was caving to political pressure by admonishing him. Uygur replied that he didn't know who the "people in Washington" that MSNBC Phil Griffin said had a problem with him were. Then, he turned to Sharpton.

___________________________________

I suspect Cenk got canned because he stunk as a tv host. He tried to pass himself off as a progressive. He wasn't a progressive. He was a Republican who voted for Obama and then quit on the president when Obama didn't jump when he said to. The Republicans who got disgusted with their party voted D in 2008, are now bringing their crap to the Democratic Party. We don't want them. They're part of the reason we're in this position. By voting R for years.

Rev. Sharpton is a Democrat. He has worked hard his entire life for Democratic goals. None of these "progressive" hosts have done anything close to what Rev. Al has accomplished, year after year after year.

Rev. Al is the real deal, whether you like him or not. His ratings have improved vastly over Cenk's.

"Simple fact of the matter is, President Obama could give in to their every DEMAND and they would still say... HELL NO!"

They already did, Feisty, it was when he agreed that a commission should be set up to come up with solutions to the debt, it was the Simpson-Bowels Debt Commission. They screamed and shouted for a debt commission, and then when President Obama agreed, they tried to block it. And now they are saying that the President should have embraced it, revenue options and all . . . except we can't have any more revenues.

liberals, the future is clear: the complete elimination of your destructive philosophy and influence is next.

There you have it folks, further confirmation (as if needed) that this has nothing to do with responsible governance, nothing to do with the good of the economy, nothing to do with what would be good for the American people.

It's everything to do with establishment of one-party, Conservative rule.

The thing the GOPTP extremists don't realize is that they've already lost. The 21% approval rating Republicans have "achieved" on this issue crushes the floor of about 27% that normally represents the lowest level normally seen for Conservative positions. Over the weekend my wife talked to her father in law, a confirmed Republican. "Boehner and the rest of his idiots are going to destroy the economy" he said. "I don't know why they can't just pass a debt ceiling increase like they always have and argue about the budget later."

Conservative radicals are deluding themselves by continuing to believe this way lies anything but ruin. I don't care if they ruin their own political fortunes. How much additional damage do they need to do to the rest of us in the process?

Navy:

I am sick and tired of hearing about how we are in different times now. While true in a very limited sense, thanks to the mismanagement of the previous administration, we have spending problems, revenue problems etc.

Exactly, Navy. Those who created the "different times" now want to divert your attention away from what they did that brought us there and accept their assurance that it can't be changed back, no matter what we do.

We need to continue exposing that for what it is, and Congress needs to reaffirm its commitment to our shared vision -- i.e., to what has always been good about America.

Otherwise, it isn't all that far from here to third-rate banana republic where it's every street vendor for him/herself.

Pat:

I suspect Cenk got canned because he stunk as a tv host. He tried to pass himself off as a progressive. He wasn't a progressive. He was a Republican who voted for Obama and then quit on the president when Obama didn't jump when he said to.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this, Pat. If anything, Cenk was WAY to the left of Obama, and his words often mirrored my own thoughts. If he was no apologist for President Obama, that certainly doesn't mean he was a closet Republican. At least not that I was ever able to detect. His progressive chops preceded the 2008 elections, as I recall from the old Air America days. I miss him in that timeslot, for sure.

I don't dislike Reverend Sharpton; in fact, I've always defended him against detractors on both sides. But someone needs to get control of him, too, or he will also be out on his ear, just like Cenk.

From reading the above posts, the Liberal/Progressive Fan Club of Newsvine must have gotten together at their Dew Drop Inn to plan their talking points for the week. Each post appears to be a continuation of the talking point.

Will something happen this week to finalize the debt plan - of course it will. Will the petulent child in the White House present his plan for the leadership of Congress? No. Will spending increase with revenues at a loss, creating an even larger deficit? Of course, it is not their money the ruling elite are spending.

It's unfortunate that we all cannot balance our checkbooks as government does each year. Sit down folks, your financial statements will be taking another hit when this debt ceiling issue is resolved.

Wait for the inflation to follow.

Houston: I don't know what the Repub "leaders" think they're accomplishing by repeatedly walking out of these budget talks.

When you're not getting anywhere, you have to change the dynamic. Obama had ideas over here, and things on the table over there, and late in the negotiating game thought he could pressure the GOP into 50% more in tax increases. At some point Speaker Boehner realized Obama wasn't serious, not even close to being serious, and was never going to get serious. So Boehner walked out on Obama and walked into talking with the Senate Democrats. Maybe the Senate Democrats will take this issue a little more seriously than Obama has. We can only hope they do.

This was my favorite piece of news over the weekend. It's a quote from the "leader" of the house. I almost tore the arm off if the sofa at this level of hypocrisy. Absolutely MIND BOGGLING!

“The president’s worried about his next election, but my God, shouldn’t we be worried about the country?” Boehner said. “I’m not worried about the next election,” Boehner continued: “I told the president months ago: Forget about the next election!”

Navy,

This arrogant self servings Hostage Taking Party of NO

Seems like it was another guy that put a gun to grandma and said the elderly wouldn't get SS if he didn't get what he wanted.

Kind of fuzzy on who that was? Hint - his name certainly wasn't Rove, ALEC, or Koch.

are going to destroy this country as we know it. Make no bones about it. A banana republic will be a step up when these guys get done.

You come up with the right statement again ...... you miss the answer (as always).

You don't remember Obama talking wistfully how much easier it would be to be the leader of China? (He wouldn't have to deal with any opposition, just issue edicts, etc ......)

But again, Obama has too high an opinion of his capabilities - he is too incompetent to run China.

Think about it Navy - the communist in China are more friendly to American business than Obama, the communist in China are not idiotic enough to destroy their own natural energy industry (heck no one in the world except liberals are that stupid), they understand spending ........

So to get back to your point ....yea Obama is pretty such the same as an insane two-bit dictator of a bannana republic.

John B, Des Moines, IA

It's everything to do with establishment of one-party, Conservative rule.

I think that the teabag Republicans in Congress attempt to force the government into default unless all of their demands are met is part of that strategy: After the government defaults and the US economic system collapses, they intend to build their new world order on the ruins of the old order. It's been the same with all extremists movements throughout history, left and right. These movements have generally been very adept at destroying the old order, but not so good at constructing a new one.

How come 130 Republican’ts in the House voted to raise the debt ceiling under ‘W’ without the hostage threats?

Yet these Republicans were not always demanding hostages in exchange for allowing the country to pay its own bills. In November of 2004, Congress voted in both the House and Senate to hike the U.S. debt limit by $800 billion, which raised the total ceiling to $8.1 trillion.

A ThinkProgress review of the votes in both the House and Senate finds that a whopping 130 congressional Republicans voted to hike the debt ceiling that November that remain in the U.S. Congress today (either in their same seats or by coming to the Senate). These members of Congress did not
demand draconian cuts in public investment that would’ve driven up unemployment
and threatened the economy in return

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/19/273349/130-republicans-voted-debt/

Any guesses on WHY they've suddenly become 'fiscal hawks'?

Other than the current occupant of the White House doesn't adhere to the party of pale, male & stale?

Hmmmm?

US Navy, the basic core belief of the "tea party" is smaller and limited FEDERAL government. That is what this country was founded on and the way the founding fathers intended it and set it up. They had experience with an all too powerful system from England and wanted to keep that from happening.

I don't go to tea party meetings or have a desire to but i have the same belief of a small Federal govt. I think a lot of what the govt. does should be handled by the states themselves. I think each state should dictate their own education, health care, .....laws on abortion, marijuana, guns, whatever. Let the people decide for themselves on open ballot issues on all these things.

I don't consider myself in either party as they both are run terribly and are ruining our country.

Ronald Reagan was lauded as the paragon of Republican Policies during the GW Bush Regime. Now Under the Reich Wing Christians Extremist Tea.GOP he is a nothing.....interesting.

Yet Americans are being told "pay no attention" to this Fringe element of the GOP?.....REALLY!

Ronald Reagan's Radio address, 9/26/1987

Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar. The United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for reliability and credibility – two things that set us apart from much of the world.

Ooohh, JoAnna...

Be careful.

Don't tell David Walker that Pelosi was helping her pal Rosa DeLauro raise money. He doesn't like Rep. DeLauro, or her husband, Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg one bit.

David told me "Trust the likes of Greenburg (sic) and DeLauro at your peril. They are owned by corporate America."

It's a "mobius strip" firing squad...on you mark get ready, get set, say...

"It's YOUR fault!!!!"

Just when we need statesmen, we instead have reality tv stars who remain midgets even when standing on the shoulders of giants. Gamesmanship, brinksmanship and singing to the choir have left the ship of state adrift in a sea of accusations and partisan BS. BOTH parties are losing the people, with a "disapproval" rating of over 100 for the two parties combined. That seems too low, considering.

Gonna go see "Captain America" to try and remember a time when people still believed in common cause, shared sacrifice and that we are all in this together....

Fiesty, works both ways. You could also ask why all the dems, including Obama, voted no on raising it then but they all want to raise it now. Why is that?

We are getting close to a tipping point of not being able to repay our debts. This will put us at around 17 trillion of debt. We took in 2.2 Trillion this year. We spent 3.7 trillion this year. It's been like this for 40 years and has got to stop. I don't run my household like this and i expect the same from my governments..... local, state and federal.

If we were to just raise the debt ceiling without spending cuts the ratings agencies would smoke us. They already said so even if we have spending cuts that are too small. Which include the amount stated by BO in his press conf.

JoAnna:

That woman [Nancy Pelosi] can certainly multi-task.

You betcha. Unlike George W. Bush, who, when he was fundraising, was pretty much unable to accomplish anything else.

Come to think of it, however, that was pretty much the rule for Bush ALL the time, wasn't it?

Bad analogy. My apologies. ;-)

All right, then, how about Newt Gingrich instead? He's in a much more similar position to Pelosi, isn't he?

And even when Gingrich was working hard, he was also able to .... (oh, never mind).

It's pretty damn hard to deal with a House that signed a pledge to Norquist.

Sick irresponsible Republicans.

I thought they took an oath to the United States of America and to uphold the Constitution? Sorry, My bad I guess the poor, elderly and in-firmed aren't "real" Americans.

Who elected Grover to anything? He needs to head back to Seasame Street before his Tea Bag conartists plug the plug on PBS.

MB: David told me "Trust the likes of Greenburg (sic) and DeLauro at your peril. They are owned by corporate America."

David is one of my favorite posters on this blog. He's long winded and often meanders off his thought process, but every once in a while the guy comes up with a nugget, a true gem.

Hey Libbies, things are looking a bit gloomy for your side, aaaggggain. So lets do something fun! Lets talk about George Bush!!

His trial start yet? Any word on any progress?

Oh look, Feisty, hunky has a 'fresh' born on date,...looks like last Thursday - wonder which retread this is?

An old Cherokee told his grandson, "My son, there's a battle between two wolves inside us all. One is evil. It's anger, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.The other is good. It's joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness, empathy, and truth." The grandson thought about it and asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

For Ira per his request.

Republicans all signed a pledge that said "we will not Compromise" and then point fingers at the Democrats and say "Look you're not compromising with us!" It must be a sick joke! Right? Unfortunate I guess not. Republicans have to genuinely think that it okay when they don't compromise but wrong when the Democrats don't. Such a disgusting level of hypocrisy in that party.

BigATC:

We (you and I) have no quarrel with a leaner more efficient government. As I have written time and time again our Governments (Federal and State) need to get leaner and more efficient.

It is the Power and Greed being concentrated in a small percentage of he people that I disagree with. I disagree with the wholesale gutting of programs that help the Middle Class achieve some sense of equality and helps protect those less fortunate to get them back on a productive path. This helps everybody in the long run.

I am against any Politician that promotes the idea of a Class Based Society. While our founding fathers wanted a smaller government they did not foresee the scope that this country would grow into. A bigger Nation needs a bigger government but it should be a fiscally responsible one that uses its payers dollars to the benefit of the country and not just a select few.

I also believe it is the responsibility of government to put certain controls on Businesses to help mitigate abuse by them on its citizens. If left unchecked we would all be working for nickels, have no benefits, longer hours etc. Our work force would look like those of other nations like China and others.

hmmm, what did barry say again when he voted against raising the debt ceiling as senator?

For all of you so worried about spending.

The money for the tax cuts is borrowed. Any money we borrow is spending.

All the tax cuts cause increased spending. Just in case your concern really is spending I thought you might like to know.

We owe 2.7 Trillion dollars for borrowed money for tax cuts. This was increased spending and even more spending when you add the interest.

Or is spending not an issue when the money is going to the rich?

Obama can't win a fight against Michelle (she picks all the vacation destinations) and I really don't think he could win a fight against the Republicans or Democrats these days! He's even losing the fight to keep the libretards on his side. This from CNN July 25, 2011:

President Barack Obama’s approval rating is down to 45 percent, driven in part by growing dissatisfaction on the left with the president’s track record in office, according to a new national survey.

According to the poll, the president’s 45 percent approval rating is down three points from June. Fifty-four percent of people questioned disapprove of how Obama’s handling his duties, up six points from last month. His 54 percent disapproval rating ties the all-time high in CNN polling that the president initially reached just before last year’s midterm elections.

“But drill down into that number and you’ll see signs of a stirring discontent on the left,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “Thirty-eight percent say they disapprove because President Obama has been too liberal, but 13 percent say they disapprove of Obama because he has not been liberal enough – nearly double what it was in May, when the question was last asked, and the first time that number has hit double digits in Obama’s presidency.”

“It’s likely that this is a reaction to some of Obama’s recent actions, including his willingness to discuss major changes in Social Security and Medicare as part of the debt ceiling negotiations,” adds Holland.

Anna Molly-

Interesting conversation with Pat about Cenk Uygur and Al Sharpton.

It's yet another demonstration that First Read is not first and foremost a liberal/progressive blog. It is primarily a site intended to organize cheerleading for President Obama.

You: Lefty "true believer"

Pat: Obama sycophant.

Cenk Uygur: Lefty "true believer"

Al Sharpton: Obama sycophant

I enjoyed the exchange.

One of the biggest reasons we can't get an agreement here is that rabid Conservatives have convinced themselves that they have ALREADY COMPROMISED--by agreeing to increase the debt ceiling.

Never mind that the debt ceiling has historically been treated as a house keeping measure necessary to pay for spending ALREADY AGREED TO by Congress and the President.

Never mind that Republicans ALREADY SIGNALED THEIR INTENT TO INCREASE THE DEBT when they passed the Ryan budget.

There's just no sense of reality in this line of thinking.

JoAnna:

Hey Libbies, things are looking a bit gloomy for your side, aaaggggain. So lets do something fun! Lets talk about George Bush!!

His trial start yet? Any word on any progress?

LoL Got your goat, didn't it?

But that was just the set up. What about Newt?

A true multi-tasker, if ever there was.

Bag Boy:

I enjoyed the exchange.

We "lefty true believers" live to serve, Bag Boy. ;-)

I have to say that I have not been on newsvine for quite a while. Mostly, because of all the fighting. However, I want to say something. I have 4 kids, 2 Marines, 2 Sailors (3 deployed, 1 Stateside) we try to Skype at least once a week. This month, it has been almost everyday. They really don't care about the rep or dems right now. They just want to be reassured that their families will get paid come the first and fifteen. They don't want a short term deal on the debt ceiling. I want them to be worried about doing their job and coming out alive, not about if their families will get paid. I have always been an independent, who voted for the candidate but I went this morning and changed my party affiliation to Democrat. I will not vote for a party that causes harm or causes my kids to worry about something other than their job at hand.

AM: LoL Got your goat, didn't it?

You can keep the goat. You're probably more used to smelling smelyy things like that.

Bob with numbers - you talk about your favorite sports guy - Lee Trevino.

Well I actually met Lee Trevino - MANY times. He was a good friend of my dad's.

Too bad your political outlook su-ks big time.

JoAnna:

You can keep the goat. You're probably more used to smelling smelyy things like that.

Proving to my satisfaction that you can't be a true blue Packer fan.

Or you would know that we're famous for our fresh dairy air.

Goat cheese is VERY big here. We even have a fancy French name for it.

Tread carefully among us. Refusing the gift of goat is not well received among us bucolics.

But what about Newt?

who gives a Rats a**, soon the sordid brigade of shopping cart dwellers will increase 1000%.........

Are you children having fun? Are you playing nicely? No? What's the matter?

Oh, I see Fiesty hit JoAnna and JoAnna hit her back and Bob 18 was looking at them funny so Anna Molly hit him..and...and...and...they started it!

and so on...and so on ....and so forth.

What is the point?

Oh, I see, the point is some imagined moral high ground from which you each toss your little mud-pies at your polar opposite. Very mature. VERRRRRY helpful.

Well folks, we all helped dig this hole. It wasn't just the left and it wasn't just the right. We all had our hands on the shovel at some point and if we want to get OUT of this hole we're all going to have to work together to do it.

Why don't you all grow up and let's find a way out, huh?

It's going to hurt no matter what the final solution is so let's stop playing the blame game and start working on a solution.

Geeez, you are all pitiful, just pitiful. YOU, each and everyone of YOU are the problem. Why don't we all try to be part of the solution.

Bob, I like your point of view very much, including the reference to Lee Trevino..... I actually got to play 18 holes of golf with him and some other amateurs like me, in a Las Vegas pro-am several years ago. With defference to Elise, I found Mr. Trevino to be a great guy with an engaging personality and we found him to be a very loyal and conservative American!

Elise,

Well I actually met Lee Trevino - MANY times. He was a good friend of my dad's.

That's pretty cool.

Too bad your political outlook su-ks big time.

Yea, reality sucks sometimes. Hopefully it will be changed before he does too much more damage.

On a positive note, I'm sure Trevino holds a lot of admiration for Obama.

As a former hustler, he has to be amazed that Obama can hustle suckers out of $35,000.00 a plate ...... and he doesn't even have to use a Dr. Pepper bottle!

Mark,

..... I actually got to play 18 holes of golf with him and some other amateurs like me, in a Las Vegas pro-am several years ago.

NOW THAT IS REALLY COOL.

With defference to Elise, I found Mr. Trevino to be a great guy with an engaging personality and we found him to be a very loyal and conservative American!

Funny, a kid that picked cotton, shined shoes, hit 300 balls everyday ...... developed a work effort and achieved on his will, spirit and hard work is conservative, huh?

Thanks for your comments Mark.

Ultimately both sides want to say "We Won!" With the LEFTY and Tea Bag watch dogs circling like a bunch sharks at a dead Whale Convention nothing can get done. This is doomed and I certainly hope so, I want default, I want this thing to implode so we can finally get on with a true fix. This is the very reason we should have allowed mass failures during the recession, instead the very idiots that claimed armageddon are now on the other side of the argument and were suppose to believe they really mean it?

Anyway, this hole debt/deficit crisis is still just a fake ploy developed by Republicans to impede Obama from acting on any real problems. En total, our debt is over 50 Trillion when owed debt, foreign and domestic is accounted for. So to say "we need to cut 4 trillion!!!" Its essentially a fallacy. But whatever, Republicans will do whatever to make Obama look bad including lying to the public about how realistic fixing this 'crisis' is.

JoAnnaSmith1:

Obama had ideas over here, and things on the table over there, and late in the negotiating game thought he could pressure the GOP into 50% more in tax increases

So, you're gullible enough to believe Boehner's lie? He got no demand from Obama for a $400B revenue increase greater than the $800B increase he claimed he agreed to, also a lie. There was no $800B agreement and no $400B demand. And there was not even a real walkout. After making himself look like an idiot by walking out on Friday, he was back at the White House on Saturday. Boehner was just putting on another show to appease his teabaggers. Whether the grande finale of the Boehner-Cantor comedy act is going to be the collapse of the US economy and the beginning of a global depression remains to be seen.

USN_USMC_MOM:

Agreed. I also come from a Military family. Since my grandfather came here from Italy ever generation (and we have 4) have been represented by at least one of my family members serving this country. My Grandfather (army) fought in WWI, My father and all my uncles (1 Navy, 1 Marine and 2 more Army) fought in WWII and Korea, I (Navy) was in during the Viet Nam Conflict and my daughter is currently a Naval Officer in San Diego.

I agree that our Military people should not be used as a bargaining chip under any circumstances. That includes our Veterans as well and I would not vote for anybody that violated that oath to our Military under any circumstance.

Mixed Bag

Anna Molly-

Interesting conversation with Pat about Cenk Uygur and Al Sharpton.

It's yet another demonstration that First Read is not first and foremost a liberal/progressive blog. It is primarily a site intended to organize cheerleading for President Obama.

One small problem with that conspiracy theory is that Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz criticize President Obama routinely from the left. As far as I know, neither of them are going to get fired.

Focus, Houston...try to focus.

The comment was about First Read, not about MSNBC, and only tangentially about current or former MSNBC personalities.

It's no wonder you're always so upset with me, Houston...

You appear unable to comprehend a good deal of what I post...and then proceed to respond to what you never understood in the first place.

Still...you seem to enjoy it, so I guess we'll continue.

:-)

It isn't Boehner who is a liar it is our illustrious President. Boehner and Obama agreed to a plan, but then he called Boehner and told him he need more revenue increases. He thought he could play Boehner like he played in in the last budget deal. What else can we expect from Obama, I mean even when he was campaigning he only went to 57 of the 58 states. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Interesting, not one republican defended spending for tax cuts when every day we need to cut spending has been the reoccurring chant.

What say you, spending not important when going to the rich?

This is a Progressive/Liberal site - so what!! If you do not like it go someplace else. I assure you we will not miss ya.

Am I off "ignore", Navy?

Anyway...

I assure you that I do enjoy it here...at least as much as you do.

Albeit, for entirely different reasons.

And, you too missed the point.

First Read is not, first and foremost, a liberal/progressive site. DailyKos and Firedoglake are liberal/progressive websites.

First Read is a site primarily devoted to cheerleading for President Obama...not about ideology so much as personality.

I love it here.

Houston!: So, you're gullible enough to believe Boehner's lie? He got no demand from Obama for a $400B revenue increase greater than the $800B increase he claimed he agreed to, also a lie. There was no $800B agreement and no $400B demand. And there was not even a real walkout. After making himself look like an idiot by walking out on Friday, he was back at the White House on Saturday. Boehner was just putting on another show to appease his teabaggers. Whether the grande finale of the Boehner-Cantor comedy act is going to be the collapse of the US economy and the beginning of a global depression remains to be seen.

Okay Houston, lets do this. Please provide a link to Obama's bottom line debt-ceiling raising proposal, the one he will agree with. How much spending cuts, and details about where and when. How many taxes, and for who, and when they are to begin? You know Houston, a plan.

Don't look too hard to find it. It doesn't exist.

There is a SIMPLE solution to this entire mess. I don't see why Obama and the Dems are putting up with this bull@!$%# RW ridiculous "my way or the highway" crap. The MINUTE the GOP started w/this "revenue off the table" garbage Obama should have just resorted to this... as he should NOW and might be FORCED to anyways:

Congress provided the authority, in legislation passed in 1996, for the US Mint to create platinum bullion or proof platinum coins with arbitrary fiat face value having no relationship to the value of the platinum used in these coins. These coins are legal tender. So, when the Mint deposits them in its Public Enterprise Fund

account at the Fed, the Fed must credit that account with the face value of these coins. This difference between the Mint's costs in producing the coins and the credit provided by the Fed is the US Mint's profit. The US code also provides for the Treasury to periodically “sweep” the Mint's account at the Federal Reserve Bank for profits earned from these coins. Coin seigniorage is just the profits from these coins, which are then booked as miscellaneous receipts (revenue) to the Treasury and go into the Treasury General Account (TGA), narrowing the revenue gap between spending and tax revenues. Platinum coins with huge face values, $1, $2, and $3 Trillion coins have been mentioned, could close the revenue gap entirely, and, if used often enough, technically end deficit spending, while still retaining the gap between tax revenues and spending.

Coin seigniorage is now being mentioned increasingly on popular blogs as a possible solution to the debt ceiling crisis. It is the only solution currently being suggested that requires no agreement in Congress and also no challenge to the debt ceiling law itself. If Congress fails to increase the debt ceiling by August 2nd, it may even become the constitutional duty of the President to use coin seigniorage to avoid default.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/21/996876/-Beyond-the-Debt-Ceiling:-The-$30-Trillion-Plan-for-Ending-Borrowing-and-the-National-Debt

Hey Bob numbers and Marty - the word is spelled deference.

I have also met Arnie Palmer, Nicolson, Chi Chi, and numerous more. My father also has played with all of them. My favorite is Arnie Palmer - the sweetest guy you could ever meet.

Have met a lot of football players and coaches and baseball too - met Lombardi once - now that was interesting!

I did not pay attention to politics at that time in my life but my dad was a staunch Republican. Most of my family is too. So what.

For those not paying attention on Friday, it was revealed that the President left Boehner a Voice mail. and at no time did he demand more taxes. He simply asked the Speaker if they could discuss the numbers given what the Gang of Six was proposing. Guess who is going to look like a lying a$$ when the transripts are released?

That would be Mr. Speaker.

The Republicans are evil!

Finger pointing would be the middle finger aimed at Obama, Boehner and a whole lot more. Everyone has already decided who they will and won't vote for in 2012.

Posturing? Will the following people please bend over:

The President for bailouts, gas prices, unaffordable health care legislation, absurd pet pie in the sky projects, break the bank high speed rail to nowhere projects.

GOP for tax shelters for the rich but no new job creation.

Please explain to me how, from 2001 to 2008 we could fight 2 wars and lower taxes? You have to pay the piper sometime. The Bush administration borrowed the money, raised the deficit several times, with the consent of most of the current Republicans, and never made any provisions for repayment, leaving it to the next administration to deal with. Total cowardice.

The Republicans in the House created this mess and it is total hypocrisy to be holding everyone for ransom to score a couple of political points. We are not amused, nor are we fools.

Worst of all, Chuck, they did it between recessions when we should be paying down the debt. When you explode the debt during good times how can it not get even worse during a recession?

I find it very interesting that when anyone mentions that fact that Bush left us with this crisis, the answer is ...no, it's Reid and Pelosi, they are the ones that wrote spending bills.

Now its all Obama fault, not Boehnor or Reid. He should craft the bills, make all the cuts, spending, tax decisions and then sign the damn thing. Why should congress do anything when they have President Obama to make decisions for them? After all he is the dictating messiah.

First he did HCR which prevents anyone from holding "pre existing conditions" against the elderly, yet this was hailed as a "death panel'' for them. Now he says if the debt ceiling is not raised, seniors and any other person who depends on a check from the government, is in jeopardy, "he is scaring seniors''.

Then you have these simpleminded folks, who cant see past their hatred for the President, claiming that he is throwing 'tantrums' and it just reminds me of the fact that Teapublicans do not know how to do anything else but lie. Boehnor and Cantor are the ones stomping out of the room, yet its Obama who is throwing the tantrum....sheesh.

Oh...Welcome...welcome hunky.....you are so brand new. Just a question....did you have to do a dissertation on Dew Drop Inn before you were able to come on board?

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.

The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them away.

Ronald Reagan

Now they just buy them away!

This little libbie fun fest is cute.

Obama is such a complete failure as a leader that under his leadership you libbies lost the house.

You still have the presidency (albeit with an empty suit) and the Senate, and yet all of your great leadership, wonderful ideas, talented negotiators, wise and strong leaders cannot work out a deal with a bunch of dimwitted Republicans?

Maybe it is because the President so disrespected them when he bullied them with his 10 year old rant "I won" an "sit in the back".

You see, your party failed. The past 4 years your party completely controlled the purse strings. House and Senate. Wrote all the laws, spent all the money, stacked up all the debt.

Now you're being called on the carpet, and you whiny little kids are screaming over a few dozen tea party representatives who can barely find their offices? These little dimwits have been on the job 8 months and they have completely kicked your guys butts?

What a truly pathetic party. Blame blame blame - completely failure of leadership.

I have news for you, 2012 is going to be ugly, and you all are going to have only yourselves to blame.

Send in Walkker from WI. Wonder if the democrats would run in Washington like they did in Wisconsin? Obama is eating this up, it is all about him. 2 year free for all and now he dose not want to pay for it.

Obama stop giving our money to all your rich buddies with your special entitlements! Lets balance the budget now and put a end to all the democrats pork!!!

This past Friday early evening after the President announced the break down of the budget talks, I had the TV on and heard Grover Norquist in a phone interview with Wolf Blitzer.

" Norquist said the president knew any deal to raise the debt ceiling could not include additional revenues through tax increases and had to have enough spending cuts to balance the amount by which the bill would increase the debt ceiling."

In a direct quote Norquist said, " That's been the rule from the beginning, and he's known that..." said Norquist."

My Question is who in the hell made Norquist the King?

Thanks, Job1. I hadn't heard that, but it certainly does raise some questions, doesn't it.

My own question is similar to yours, but not quite the same.

Why does Norquist believe he has authority to dictate "rules" to the President of the United States?

In other words, what does Norquist know about the President that we don't?

Job1, had not heard that comment. King Grover Nordquist apparently believes he has the power to dictate the rules of engagement for Congress and the White House.

Nordquist doesn't know anything about the President that we don't; Nordquist just assumes that his all-powerful Pledge is common knowledge and every president should know his "rules".

I have my own question--Why does the GOPTP (and the media) need to ASK Grover Nordquist his opinion on anything relating to governing? He is not King and does not rule this country.

Exactly, Jody. That's the million dollar question, isn't it.

Why?

Grover Norquist has enriched himself pushing the agenda of the wealthy elites who are really pulling the strings in the GOPTP. A big part of Conservative messaging is not putting all the information in one place so we can connect the dots. This is a fine example of that.

When asked if letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire would violate Norquist's pledge, he simply answered "no".

Then, in another interview he adds "as long as they're fully offset with spending cuts.

THAT is the full picture. He knows full well that if BOTH of his requirements are met THERE WILL BE NO DEFICIT REDUCTION. What he's telling us here is that he's willing to allow a minor tax increase on the wealthy if Conservative elites can get their goal of reducing the social safety net.

Too bad they didn't link Grover to his buddy Abramoff's scandal. I am so tired of hearing about this unamerican SOB. Any fool who sign the pledge he has, supposedly, lock away is a fool and a criminal. They should be asked to resign. They have apparently forgotten to whom they answer to.

…so now Boehner says the House will “work” with the Senate to come up with a deal because he can’t deal with the President… damn, now there’s a thought, the two houses of Congress working together to solve problems… excuse me, but isn’t this is the way it’s supposed to happen? The only reason I think he made this statement is because he wants to diminish the President’s exposure and any praise he (President Obama) may get from trying to solve this stupid fight, and he’s also trying to save face with the Tea Party because that piss ant Cantor has a knife stuck in his back waiting for him to make another mistake so that he (Cantor) can make a play for his (Boehner’s) position. Yeah, it’s most assuredly “Finger-pointing, posturing, and politics.”

Sure devie, the republicans should not answer to Grover, just like Obama should not answer to George Soros......but he does!

82AllAmerican:

That is how it started. The GOP/TP are the ones that dragged President Obama into this to begin with trying to duck and dodge their own responsibility and transfer it to the President.

The GOP/TP are the gutless wonders with no new ideas. They just keep re-wrapping the old ones. The GOP/TP are the ones that keep walking away from meetings - how is that for leadership - "Cut and Run".

Look these guys are not interested one iota in doing anything that will move this country forward. They do not care if we go into another recession or depression, in fact they are betting the farm on it happening.

Sorry spider, But I don't believe anyone sign a plege to Soros. Get real, clown!

How long are the American people going to tolerate the republicans holding the American economy and the AMerican people hostage? This debt ceiling is not about spending, it is about taking care of what we owe. They all had a hand in creating and spending this money. Where was their vigilance when they blindly voted for Bush's two wars and unpaid drug prescription plan? What about the tax cuts? They were noticeably silent. Now they won't shut up and do their jobs. I have been watching the polling. Americans are watching and listening to their rhetoric. We recognize this isn't about the debt but rather another attempt to destroy a presidency. Shame on them. If I were Obama I would go before the people, evoke the 14th Amerndment and then by executive order, revoke the Bush Tax cuts. Let it go to the courts. By the time anything is done, the court of public opinion will affect the outcome. If my twenty something year old sons are willing to pay more, then corporate leaders and wealthy people should be willing to do the same. Will it take another hit to the millions of 401ks and pension plans before these political hacks do the right thing? I hope some legal groups are looking at the Grover Norquist pledge and see if it is in any way anti American since it has the potential to destroy our economy to protect a selected few Americans.

What will come about is drastic cuts in SS, Medicare, and Medicaid and many other Programs. In turn, it is guaranteed that we will begin to see a reduction of in our total population -- the elderly, the infirm, the very young, the mentally or physically challenged, and the poor. No one will remain unaffected.

This will be only a start of what will happen in the near future.

Next they will tear down the Bill of Rights and you may well lose your rights to vote, attend your church of choice (if not on the approved list), etc. Indeed, we will begin to build a Caste System within this Country more potent than what we have today and far more malevolent than anything since WWII.

cherokee:

The right wing radicals have already started the agenda you put forth above. Just look at their recent legislation, proposed legislation and the ones they have stalled and opposed.

We are seeing people already being disenfranchised from voting, women's rights are under assault, we have a congressman (Republican) holding McCarthy Style hearings against one religious group, union busting, anti gay rhetoric etc etc etc.

If they are not checked this will continue to get worse before it gets better.

The GOP/TP has nothing of value to bring to this Nation as a whole. NOTHING - Just more of the same for the richest 2%, Wall Street and Big Business. If you are not one of these you are nothing more than disposable fodder to them.

cherokee, there's much more here http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed about the hidden agenda. More and more people seem to be recognizing that hidden agenda...Americans as a whole are smart people and we're capable of connecting the dots.

T.E.A. = Too Extreme for America

Party = Celebrating their success at protecting the wealthy while destroying the middle class.

You sound like an overextended consumer, arguing that the reason he is going bankrupt is because no one will extend his credit limit.

In other words, it's nonsense.

Obama has already proven what he will do if given a blank check- he will spend profligately, including giving billions to his donors. I posted links on this yesterday- one of the treehouse kids suggested this was 'fanciful'.

Huh?

The debt needs to be cut- today. It cannot be done over ten years- it sure did not take ten years for Obama to add four trillion to the debt, but two and a half.

If he wants to threaten to hold his breath until he turns blue, let him.

Seems he is getting a past due lesson on what the "consent of the governed" actually means. And if Democrats up for reelection have half the brains god gave goats, they will remember what happened last year, after their party ignored the will of the electorate, and rammed through Obama's wish list.

All they need to do is look around them.

Thank you, Navy.

Ironically, the two things are only kissing cousins, at best. The debt ceiling goes to debt already incurred, about which Congress presumably can do nothing, unless they decide to revoke the IOUs they gave to Social Security.

I wouldn't put it past them, by the way.

Debt, on the other hand, is an ongoing issue that is Congress's ordinary work. Instead of wasting time manufacturing a crisis, they should roll up their sleeves and get it done. But there's plenty of time for that.

So, one would almost get the impression that they are hoping we default and the resulting uproar in the world financial markets would provide sufficient cover to implement some draconian, shock-induced solutions, as they have already done in the states.

I wouldn't put that past them, either.

Great information, Navy, thanks for posting. Many of us have posted here that the debt ceiling and spending are apples and oranges. Even Boehner admitted that doing both at the same time was impossible--he could have saved everyone a lot of grief IF and the GOPTP had been honest about that from the beginning. Sadly, his Tea Party Wing lacks comprehension skills.

We have a debt problem that is left over from previous administrations...

Give me a break, Navy and knock off the blame Bush BS. The debt has increased 25% since Obama's inauguration!

W. Bush and the Republicans own this debt problem and that is a fact.

Anna Molly and Jody:

Thank you for the kind words. Many of us on the left had said from the beginning putting these two together was a bad idea to begin with. Most leading think tanks and economist (democrat and republicans) agree.

The GOP/TP saw the Debt Ceiling issue as another way to try and push their agenda by adding amendments to the issue and basically saying no spending cuts no Debt Ceiling increase. This is their new Hostage agenda. They just did it again with the FAA which should have been a straight forward vote whether to re fund them or not. They stalled it by adding anti-labor amendment and are saying if we do not trash the unions the NO money for the FAA.

It is a constant Hostage environment with these guys. They are going to continue to add amendments that no reasonable person would vote for except the teabaggers and claim we are stalling the process when in fact, once again, it is the radical right that is doing the damage. WE NEED SOME FISCAL SEAL'S to come in and reestablish some sense of order. We cannot rely on them to do it any longer because they just are not going to do it.

I see our residentidiot once again does not know what she is talking about. So what else is new, right. These guys/gals just turn my stomach with their agenda of destroying America.

spider-737231

Give me a break, Navy and can the blame Bush BS. The debt has increased 25% since Obama's inauguration!

Yes Spider, the debt has increased. But then we're not hemorrhaging 700,000 jobs a month, the DOW isn't stuck at 8,000, corporate profits grew 36.8 percent in 2010 (the biggest gain since 1950)...I could go on. Triage required $$$$.

And no...we're not going to give you a break. We're not going to let you or anyone else forget what a mess Bush left and what it will take to fix it.

Navy wrote (via cut and paste) that...

The Debt Ceiling and the Deficit are two different animals.

Different animals perhaps, but definitely interrelated, just as deficits and debt are.

However one wishes to look at the rating agencies, just passing a debt ceiling increase will not get what many want or say they want, a continued AAA rating. The rating will still require a viable medium and long term plan to reduce the debt.

It has become apparent that obamas WH has chosen to remain a divider and that congress remains dysfunctional. It may very well be that the debt ceiling will be passed with a clean vote simply because there really is no time left to create any legislation to address our debt.

Kicking the debt ceiling can down the road to 2013 just means we do this all over again with potentially a new potus and congress. The rights desire to limit the debt ceiling (and avoid default) so that it has to be addressed again as well as a debt reduction plan later this year or 2012 is the correct path. If for no other reason that it will force each politician to express clearly to the populace where they stand and the numbers by which they stand by.

The saddest part of the whole affair is the simple statement (source long forgotten) "as the economy goes, so do jobs". If congress and the WH wants to continue down the dysfunctional path they are on, then I guess a fair amount of politicians in office today won't be returning in 2013, and that it is an even bet that the potus won't either.

Spider you are an idiot.

ECONOMIC DOWNTURN AND BUSH POLICIES CONTINUE

TO DRIVE LARGE PROJECTED DEFICITS

http://www.cbpp.org/files/5-10-11bud.pdf

Tax Cuts, War Costs Do Lasting Harm to Budget Outlook

“Some commentators blame major legislation adopted in 2008-2010 — the stimulus bill and other recovery measures and the financial rescues — for today’s record deficits. Yet those costs pale next to other policies enacted since 2001 that have swollen the deficit. Those other policies may be less conspicuous now, because many were enacted some years ago and they have long since been absorbed into CBO’s and other organizations’ budget projections”.

“Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. [7] By 2019, we estimate that these two policies will account for almost half — nearly $10 trillion — of the $20 trillion in debt that will be owed under current policies.[8] (The Medicare prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 also will substantially increase deficits and debt, but we are unable to quantify these impacts due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues, which will account for less than $2 trillion (less than 10 percent) of the debt at that time. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers”.

“Without the economic downturn and the fiscal policies of the previous Administration, the budget would be roughly in balance over the next decade. That would have put the nation on a much sounder footing to address the demographic challenges and the cost pressures in health care that darken the long-run fiscal outlook.[9]”

This is what the GOP/TP keeps denying and then turning around and trying to blame President Obama. The facts as outlined in this detailed report are that the previous administration put us in the toilet and no matter who was elected President he/she would be faced with many years of reconstruction. It took 8 years to get into this mess and no president, Republican or Democrat, can reverse the damage in 2 plus years. Especially if you take into consideration that the GOP/TP for the last 2 plus years have done everything in their power to try and make President Obama fail. They have stalled over 400 Bills in the Senate with outright objections (blocks) or filibusters demanding 60 votes. They (GOP/TP) have opposed virtually every Bill that has anything to do with creating jobs and/or helping Small Businesses. Go look up their record of virtually 100% “Obstructionism” on legislation that would have moved this country forward, like the $50 Billion Dollar infrastructure bill for example.

And to compound the problem, the GOP/TP is proposing the same Agenda today as this one above that got us into this mess to begin with. The GOP/TP has no new ideas; just the same old same old just repackaged, but with the same failed programs. Just look at the “Ryan Bill”, T-Paw’s proposal which is even worse and the new Bachmann initiative that is worse than the other two. None of them address the cost driving issues in this country. None of them have any plans to create jobs and stimulate the economy, in fact they all do just the opposite. And these are being presented as “Fiscally Responsible” Bills” that will answer all our problems when they add anywhere from $5.5 Trillion to almost $8 Trillion to the deficit/debt in the next decade while giving the Millionaires & Billionaires record tax cuts. In addition these “bogus” spending cut /economic bills destroy most of the Social Programs that benefit the Middle Class and Low Income Families, like the destruction of Pell Grants for education, Medical Research, Food and Product Safety etc etc etc etc.

What these have in common is the promotion of the GOP/TP agenda that “Spending Cuts” and Tax Cuts for the richest 2% are Americas answer to all our problems. They are not. Not any of these address the real problems we are facing.

Spider, the debt doubled under GW BUSH (from $5T to $10T) and Reagan increased the debt by 189%. This was all before Obama was elected, so who would you blame that debt on since you can not blame Obama?

Navy you can't have your cake and eat it too. So how is it Navy that obama and the socialist controlled Congress of 2009 and 2010 could not change all these awful bills that Bush passed. Why did obama campaign and promise all the great things that were going to happen to the economy. He didn't do it to fool me because I'm not fooled. Did he lie to you Navy knowing this information you now know, or was he and the Congress of your party just to dam (n) sorry to do anything and let all these awful atrocities of the Bush administration just continue. My word swabbie why did lie about a balanced budget in the future if it wasn't going to happen as a result of the prescription drug plan. Why doesn't he cancel the prescription drug plan navy why. Why didn't he tell us all in Jan. 2009 that things would only get worse in his first 4 years because of bush. Are we supposed to believe things will improve in his second term, shouldn't he tell us now if we are doomed through 2016 because of Bush. Come on sailor buy me drink and cut the BS.

What happens if the Republicans win the deficit talks? Simple we lose 1.5 trillion in government spending, and the economy tanks, because the consumers lost 1.5 trillion or so in money provided by the taxpayers as services. Republicans will tank the economy and start the Second Great Depression. The First world Depression will start 6 months after that.

END FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS AND BALANCE THE TRADE DEFICITS. That is the only way to save our nation and anyone who says different is wealthy,
greedy demon.

It is simple to know if your a demon or an angel. Say we have a power scale. At the top, are the kings, Presidents, and congresspeople, followed by other people with power/wealth. If your an angel, you use your power to nurture the weak, defend the helpless, and give people the knowledge to succeed. If your an demon, you take from the poor, ignorant, and stupid, because they are helpless, you take what you can and give nothing back, because you have gamed the system and have power.

In my book, Republicans are evil. They don't believe in nurturing the poor, they don't believe in helping the ignorant get an education, and they believe people can game the system and keep their wealth, because the top 400 families have more wealth than 60% of the bottom.

Cutting education hurts the poor. Cutting SS, medicare, medicaid and school lunches hurts the poor. Cutting all the programs, which keeps the earth green, stops pollution, and protects the people. I don't understand how people can't see the evil people. How you can elect evil people?

Angel or demon sow your seeds and see what God does.

Boehner now is trying a "two step process" to find a way to make sense of his strategic plan to tie the debt ceiling to the deficit. He can dance all around the Repub. failed political strategy, but it is a lost cause. Soon he will have to face the music and so will the American public.

Well said, Louis J. Boehner has lost in many ways. I do not see him surviving as Speaker beyond this year, if that long. While I disagree with Boehner on many things, I do not believe he wants the country to default but he is stuck with the Tea Party fanatics the GOP so willingly embraced--Boehner and the rest of the GOP have no one to blame but themselves. It is they who welcomed with open arms the far right extremists into the mainstream of politics. Now they are stuck with the results which will cost the GOP dearly in the long term.

First Cantor then Boehner "walked out" of debt ceiling talks and promptly gave "pout" statements for the press. Leaders do not walk away, they stay and work harder. President Obama has shown restraint and great patience with the obstructionist GOPTP as well as leadership and statesman skills throughout this unnecessary debt ceiling debate. One can hope that Congress can and does the right thing and does it within the next few days--time is running out.

OK Louis J,

Another member of the LPFC of NEWSVINE continues with the talking points.

With spending exceeding revenues, why does the Progressive Party wish to continue this movement for increasing debt? I am in favor of a temporary increase while an independent committee looks into ways of reducing wasteful spending, consolidation of government departments, reducing government in total and finding favorable legislation for the private sector to impact the jobs situation.

Why does this President continue to walk away from the table when he doesn't appear to get his way on spending programs?

hunky, why did Republicans vote to increase the debt by passing the Ryan budget?

That action alone exposes the current contrived crisis for the dangerous political theater it is.

Hey Hunky:

The Ryan Bill added 5.5 Trillion Dollars to the debt over the next decade. How do you think they were going to pay for it? They by passing the bill, voted to increase the Debt Ceiling by at least about 6 Trillion Dollars. Did you forget about that one.

Nice try go back a do a little more reading.

The new Republicans Teapublicans bought there seats in the House and have never been part of an organized Political Party. They don't know how to PLAY NICE or compromise.

It the past 100 years we had a Political base that understood the Federal Government is operated by compromise not mandate. The new teapublicans do not want to understand how the Government works. If you won't do it my way then I won't play. In the past we had House Leadership that was strong enough to say "We are going to do it this way" because that will be accepted and is a compromise. We don't have a strong House Leadership at this time.

I expect they will get sent home during the 2012 election.

When the yelling and screaming stops Boehner can go in front of the Nation and CRY saying that we tried to carry out the mandate of the people but the process would not allow it to happen. Thank God.

The process is much more important than the task.

No! Time for the spineless dem leaders to stand up and fight. Big business needs no more subsidies.

The current Congress is on the path of being the most worthless group in History. They will go down in History as the do nothing Congress that did nothing to help this country. In fact History will tell of how they tried to turn us into a Banana Republic for their masters Karl Rove, Norquist, the Koch Brothers etc.

Anytime someone dies needlessly it is a tragedy. Even if the number is just 1, or 100 or 10,000. It is a needless "trajedy". Even if it is self inflicted it is a trajedy. Unless your name is Breivnik, Loughner, McVeigh, Hasan or Bin Laden. Then it is justice served.

Hey, no joe … how do YOU feel about taking away school milk and breakfast for poor children?

Are you kidding me Anna Molly?

Old NJNB is practically wetting herself with glee...

She would prefer to let the little parasites starve, after all, it's their FAULT they were born into those circumstances!

Outstanding Post - just outstanding.

THe radical right wing "Hostage Party" is so far out of touch with every day people that they have no moral fiber anymore. It is all about the 2% getting more of the pie while the other 98% get less. That is the only thing on their minds. More for me and less for you.

The problem is that a Democracy (our way of life) does not work that way. This country was not built on that type of ideology that the right wing radicals have adopted. It can only lead to our destruction of this country as we know it.

This recent Congress is on the path to being the worst this Nation has ever seen, period - Go Republicans you are achieving your political agenda and America is bleeding - thank you. Hope you are satisfied.

Great post Anna Molly,

I put the ALEC info on the facebook. I wish the site was a little more professional looking. It looked like a junior high schooler put it together. However the information in it is priceless. Hope it is used by the Democrats against Republican in 2012. Republicans, bit#%es of corporate America!

Anna Molly, thank you for the news from Wis. It is an example of the "Shock Doctrine" detailed by John A on these thread over the past weeks. It is a organized effort both on the national and state level to set up a crisis to insert their solutions with the ultimate goal of privatizing government on every level.

See: Naomi Klein's book "Shock Doctine: The rise of Disaster Capitalism"

@ Feisty:

And here I always thought no joe was all about the children.

So sorry. My mistake. ;-)

@ Northstar:

Absolutely, it is, Northstar. There can be no doubt they were just waiting for the opportunity. I also think there can be no doubt that their policies created the opportunity. Whether that's a coincidence or not, I just don't know.

@ Navy and Ana ~ Thank you for the kind words. This is truly, truly scary stuff. And except for a few, no one in the media has any real interest in connecting those dots. That is, perhaps, the most scary thing of all.

And here I always thought no joe was all about the children.

Glad I could clear that up for you! lol

You should of read some of her rants against, education & health care (some of her most venomous comments).

Her being a typical RWNJ - the ONLY children she cares about are her own!

The rest can go POUND salt!

Anna Molly,

Thank You for the truth.

NoJo and the others in her group are all about themselves make no mistake about it. This will never change.

The lies and misinformation just keeps on getting repeated over and over.

President Obama in 2012.

Wow, Anna Molly, I clicked on your link and read the article about cuts to your state's school milk program. It also said the milk comes from Wisconsin farms, so that has to hurt the dairy farmers as well.

(I also voted in your poll as to whether the debt ceiling will be raised before we default and who to blame if we default the majority said the GOP.)

The Cap Times, Anna Molly? Your "progressive voice"?

An article full of "might", "could", and "may haves"?

You've got to be kidding. Tell you what- let me know if there actually ARE any poor children denied lunch, breakfast, or milk, and I'll donate to whatever fund is set up to help them.

. Meanwhile, how about YOU comment on this
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/30/green-bundler-with-the-golden-touch_n_842863.html

Maybe Westly could set up the fund, with some of the stimulous funds he got in return for being an Obama donor.

Good lord.

Amy:

(I also voted in your poll as to whether the debt ceiling will be raised before we default and who to blame if we default the majority said the GOP.)

LoL I have a poll? I wonder who is playing Anna Molly this morning.

I don't even know how to get a poll.

no joe:

The Cap Times, Anna Molly? Your "progressive voice"?

.... She said derisively, but cluelessly.

No, no joe ... John Nichols, brilliant journalist and progressive thinker. Works for The Nation, now. See him on the news shows all the time.

READ the rest of the article, no joe. It's full of information about ALEC and has links to other research that has been done on ALEC.

Dispute the FACTS, no joe, not the source.

An all-too-typical right-wing response, and not even worthy of rebuttal.

Meanwhile, how about YOU comment on this
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/30/green-bundler-with-the-golden-touch_n_842863.html

Maybe Westly could set up the fund, with some of the stimulous funds he got in return for being an Obama donor.

Everyone already knows how I feel about campaign finance, no joe. You won't get any traction with me there.

It ALL has to stop. Our side will when yours does.

And not one minute before.

no joe, no bo, nj..

Why is the Anna Molly post regarding the school milk program something you felt necessary to refute?

I can remember when Ronald Regan did something similar to school lunch programs in the '80's/ One of the things he did was categorize ketchup as a vegetable.

It was heartless then and this is exactly the same.

Our children are not pawns in the political game

No child in America should ever go to bed hungry or miss a meal and there are literally hundreds of thousands that do....every single day.

Would you allow that to happen to your children or grandchildren?

If this is what we've become and what you feel we need to do then PLEASE don't do it in my name.

AM I read the Breakfast bit. Words like "may be cut" "Could be affected". Typical Liberal playbook stuff. AM, Nothing has been cut. They need to prioritize. I think the meals should be at the top of the list to be saved. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good scary story. Please post the follow - up if and when they actually do cut those programs.

As for the Shadowy group, I could just as easily find a story about some George Soros, Lobbyist, Lawyer filled back room club influencing the Democrat agenda. Remember, it was your guy who famously said "Never let a crisis go to waste."

So if your point was that Republicans and Democrats are both shady, well, I am just shocked.

Anna Molly has a Poll????? Hmmmm......guess I missed that one, my loss I am sure.

No child in America should ever go to bed hungry or miss a meal and there are literally hundreds of thousands that do....every single day.

While living in the most abundant country in the world... it's not only reprehensible... it's a FACT!

If this is what we've become and what you feel we need to do then PLEASE don't do it in my name.

Or mine either! Thank you Ira, on this we can agree...

Amen, Ira----I can agree that there are areas where government spending needs to be cut---but school breakfasts and lunches for children? Really? There is absolutely no where else that the money could be saved? Or people couldn't be asked to pay a little more for this?

Come on, Ira. You know better.

This was an article penned purely on speculation, with the intention of manipulating emotion.

The link I posted , ( there are plenty of others reporting the same story), is based on fact- that is, something that actually happened. Obama used money borrowed, that must be repaid by taxpayers, to pay off one of his big contributors.

Westly has bundled $200,000 this time out- what is he expecting as a payoff?

Why not turn your ire to something actual, rather than something fanciful?

It's already been done in your name-and mine- so, does that mean we are all in for payola?

I know I'm not- what about you?

Anna Molly....excellent, excellent post. This needs to be kept front and center as few people know about it as it has been under the radar for far too long.

nojo has herself as a paragon of virtue, however, her 'facts' are never facts, mostly half truths and innuendos or she tries to make them fit whather particular rant of the moment. I believe her rabid hatred of our Pres, clouds out any rational thought as she is consumed by this irrational hatred.

no joe, no bo, nj..

When the words "may be cut" and "could be affected" are OPTIONS, that's not fanciful...they're thinking about it...and if they knew they could away with it without drawing the attention of the nation, they would.

I've had enough posts on FR in favor of Simpson-Bowles and the Gang of Six Approach to reducing the debt and I....and I know Mixed Bag has...have actually read the proposals.

No where does it say...and these are bi-partisan proposals... that we take food out of the mouth of our children. It is reprehensible and unconscionable and you really should rethink your position on this.

Have a good day....

Repugnacants new mantra "I've got mine- now I want all of yours.

The link I posted , ( there are plenty of others reporting the same story), is based on fact- that is, something that actually happened. Obama used money borrowed, that must be repaid by taxpayers, to pay off one of his big contributors.

Westly has bundled $200,000 this time out- what is he expecting as a payoff?

Oh, my gosh, you don't mean it. A big campaign contributor expected favors.

Wow. You learn something new, every day.

Someone better tell Halliburton quickly because they had no idea.

The Koch brothers, however, had already figured that out, at least as it relates to Wisconsin.

Meanwhile, in other news, Rick Perry used $6.9 billion of federal stimulus money, which BY THE WAY is also debt that the US has to repay, to buy down his own state's deficit.

Essentially transferring Texas's credit card bill to ours.

So, I guess, using your calculus, that makes Rick Perry not fit to be President, either.

Wouldn't you agree, no joe?

@Anna Molly

So is the safety net being shredded in Wisconsin? From the website.

Welcome to ACCESS - Access to Eligibility Support Services for Health, Nutrition, Child Care and W-2 Cash Assistance. This website is a quick and easy way for people who live in Wisconsin to find out if they might be able to get:

Help with buying food
Low- or no-cost health care
Help with buying prescription drugs
Help with paying for child care
W-2 cash assistance and help finding a job
Home energy assistance
Special tax credits
Low cost life insurance

This website will take you about 15 minutes to use. We'll ask you to tell us about the people in your home, the money you get from a job or other places, your housing costs and a few other bills. What you tell us will stay private and secure.
When you're finished, we'll tell you if you might be able to get help through programs like FoodShare, BadgerCare Plus, Medicaid, SeniorCare, Medicare Part D, Child Care, Wisconsin Works (W-2), WIC, The Emergency Food Assistance Program, Wisconsin Home Energy Assistance Program, and the State Life Insurance Fund. If there are children in your home, we'll also look to see if they may be able to get meals at school or during the summer. And we'll look to see if you might be able to get tax credits for people with lower incomes.

Please keep in mind that this website is just a test to see if you might be able to get benefits. You'll have to apply for these programs to get a final decision about benefits, but we'll let you know how to do that. If you want to go ahead and apply online for FoodShare, BadgerCare Plus, Family Planning Waiver, Medicaid, or Child Care, click here.

Ready to get started? Use the mouse to click the Next button! Please do not use the Forward, Back or Stop buttons on your browser. Instead, use the ACCESS buttons at the bottom of each page.

Seems to me that any responsible parent could get help for their kids so that they wouldn't be hungry when they arrive at school (although I do love the Lawrence O'Donnell bit on MSNBC).

As to Amy's comment about Wisconsin Dairy Farmers.

Despite higher milk production, projected 2011 milk and dairy product prices were raised compared to a month ago, but 2012 price forecasts were left basically unchanged (see below)

dairybusiness.com/headlines/usda-raises-2011-milk-production--price-projections

I don't think the farmers are in trouble.

No child in America should ever go to bed hungry or miss a meal and there are literally hundreds of thousands that do....every single day.

And sadly, this is nothing new. Going back years the children of rural America, especially in Appalachia, this has been a fact of life. Yet we send billions of aid overseas and let our own people languish in poverty. This has always bothered me, and if you go there or drive thru the back roads of this enormously wealthy country, you would have to be blind not to see how so many of our citizens have been left to scrabble for an existence.

Rethink my position?

I've already offered to donate to any fund set up to replace the state monies, should this actually occur.

I didn't notice anyone else doing so.

By the way, since you brought up the "catsup as a vegetable" diversion, here is the truth about that debacle

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2517/did-the-reagan-era-usda-really-classify-ketchup-as-a-vegetable

So, it was not Reagan, but some bureaucrat at USDA- who found his career path diverted for this idiocy.

Anna Molly, Ira Lapin--terrific posts! Hard to believe the GOPTP can be so inhumane but they prove it every day. Thanks, Reagan myth makers, for taking a party that once was compassionate and turning it into the selfish, I've got mine, tough if you don't party.

The school milk program existed in Iowa when I was in gradeschool in the 50's. The milkman delivered wire carriers filled with small glass bottles of milk. As a kid, it was hard to believe that for some children, it was probably the only milk they had each day. Many of the teachers would bring occasional treats for us to enjoy with the milk. As I grew older, I realized those treats were probably as rare for some children as the milk.

Gingerbread Mamma..

You had a wonderful post over the weekend on the good and evil inside us..

If would could, would you please re-post it here...it is very appropriate and certainly timely.

Thank you.

AM, accepting stimulous funds on behalf of your state is nowhere in the same vicinity of accepting half a billion for your private boondoggle, and you know it.

Good grief.

I also don't remember seeing Perry's name on the list of Obama bundlers who got plum jobs and/or stimulous funds.

Face facts- Obama is a corrupt politician, who used taxpayer funds to pay off his big donors, after lying about his willingness to take federal funding. He then lied about his campaign being financed by "little people"- 75% of his funding came from big donors-

Who got big payoffs.

Gingerbread Mamma, well said. That has always bothered me, too. We seem to turn a blind eye to the idea that such poverty exists in this country. The media could do a great deal by focusing on the problem in this country not just foreign countries.

I second Ira's suggestion to repost the Cherokee story.

no joe, no bo, nj..

Last post on this...

First, your source is a blogger named Cecil on a blog called The Straight Dope.

Second..even if it was a bureaucrat who implemented it, what did Mr. Regan do to end the ketchup is a vegetable nonsense. C'mon...you know the answer.

You offered to donate....wow.. got enough for the entire state?

Going back to my original post...why is this school milk program part of any political debate?

Alan, NJ:

Seems to me that any responsible parent could get help for their kids so that they wouldn't be hungry when they arrive at school

If they had a computer, that is, and knew how to use it properly.

Not everyone does. Hence your disconnect, Alan.

But I do believe these programs exist to supplement, not replace, other help that is already available.

The school milk program, for example, has been around since I was a child, and has more to do with ensuring that children get the nutrition they need, regardless of income.

Each program does different things.

By the way, Walker's budget has already slashed the bejeebers out of low income assistance programs. For example ....

http://wisconsinbudgetproject.blogspot.com/2011/06/budgets-effect-on-wisconsins-low-income.html

http://wccf.org/pdf/budget_repair_bill_031411.pdf

The biennial budget bill cuts $56 million over 2 years in tax relief for low-wage workers with

children.

• The proposal hits families with three or more kids the hardest. A single mom who has three

children and is making the minimum wage would lose $518 per year (21 percent of her current

credit).

• A family with two or more children would lose up to $154 per year. (Families with one child

won’t be affected.)

Or are so really so naive that you think he would have neglected that?

Think again.

WCA: AM I read the Breakfast bit. Words like "may be cut" "Could be affected". Typical Liberal playbook stuff.

My gosh! Next they'll tell us Social Securtity checks may not go out.

Quick, everyone, empty your wallets, your bank accounts, your kids piggybanks, and give them the money!

@Ira

I don't know how much this will affect kids in WI, but I don't know if I buy the argument that they will be destitute or go to bed hungry. It seems there are a multitude of over lapping programs set up to help kids in need. As I said, if there is a responsible parent they should be able to get help. Never having been in that position I don't know the criteria they set to qualify.

What I don't buy are blanket postings about how this or that cut will hurt the children.

Anna Molly,

I love to read "local" newspapers. The poll I voted in was on the page with the article you linked to :)

no joe:

AM, accepting stimulous funds on behalf of your state is nowhere in the same vicinity of accepting half a billion for your private boondoggle, and you know it.

Accepting stimulus funds that were REALLY supposed to be targeted at creating jobs, you mean.

And then diverting those funds to solve a short-term deficit in order to mask the looming long-term deficit, you mean.

And then turning around and taking credit for balancing your budget, and also for whatever job growth that may have facilitated, while blaming the President because the stimulus didn't create any jobs and ran up debt, you mean.

The height of hypocrisy, you mean.

Yes, I know it. They're not the same. Not at all.

Alan, NJ:

I don't know how much this will affect kids in WI, but I don't know if I buy the argument that they will be destitute or go to bed hungry. It seems there are a multitude of over lapping programs set up to help kids in need. As I said, if there is a responsible parent they should be able to get help. Never having been in that position I don't know the criteria they set to qualify.

Once again, your naivete is showing. Read my post and look at the links.

Walker already made sure those programs couldn't make up the difference.

How can you, in good conscience, be so bloody blind?

BREAKING NEWS!!!

In keeping a prior pledge they made to Grover Norquist, John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Mitch McConnell and House Republicans today

announced that it is introducing a NEW COMPROMISE BILL

to change the national emblem from an Eagle to

a CONDOM

because it
more accurately reflects their roll in society.

A condom allows for
inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of
pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually being screwed .

Thank you so much tea party

America feels MUCH better now.
!

Alan NJ: What I don't buy are blanket postings about how this or that cut will hurt the children.

You never hear that pols talk about how the massive debt we are running up will hurt the children of today, when they become the taxpayers of tomorrow. And that's because the children of today don't vote.

Alan, NJ..

Let's focus on NY and NJ...

The ONLY breakfast and lunch that tens of thousands of school children in NY and NJ receive are the meals at school. Fact.

Left over breakfast's are given to parents to take home so that they will have the additional food at home. In may cases, parents sit with their children at breakfast and pick at the food on the tray and will eat the leftovers. Fact.

Food pantries are bare and food stamps don't even cover the staples. Fact.

Ever been to a NYC shelter and seen the conditions?

...and you want to know how low the income is to qualify?

Seriously...you doubt the abject poverty that exists among the poor and displaced veterans?

Walk down to your local food pantry or veterans center and volunteer.

I promise...you will NEVER ask that question again.

Yes. Some children DO go to bed hungry. But I'll bet you anything their parents don't. When was the last time we had starvation in this country? Any kid going hungry today is the result of low-life parents. You know, most likely no father in the picture and DEFINITELY not in the home. If there IS a man in the house it's usually the mother's equally low-life boyfriend. There's money for dope, alcohol and lottery tickets but not enough to give all 7 kids for lunch money or a nutritious meal. Nearly all of these imbeciles are on some kind of government assistance. Take that away or drasically reduce it and you provide an incentive to people who shouldn't have kids NOT to have kids.

If they had a computer, that is, and knew how to use it properly.

They can't go to a state government office? You know AM I get where you are coming from, and believe me I don't buy the ketchup is a vegetable argument, but anecdotally I do see some of the fattest poor people in the world, so I find the kids are going to bed hungry argument a bit of a stretch. Also, I know nothing can be done, but I am for free family planning. I don't think families of more than three kids, rich or poor, should be encouraged through the tax code or through welfare benefits, so I am all for capping these at three kids.

Are you kidding, Alan? You focused on THAT and completely ignored the part about how Walker had already cut the heart out of those programs that you propose "any responsible parent" could turn to to make up the slack?

And then you're trying to divert attention away for that by making a case in FAVOR of family planning, which Republicans also cut cut the funding for?

Seriously?

@Ira

Is this caused by being homeless though?

Payoffs, AM. Half a billion for half a million in donations.

Pretty good return, too.

It's CORRUPTION, pure and simple.

You can convolute it, twist it, and dress it up in a curly little wig- but, it is still CORRUPTION.

Alan, NJ

Is this caused by being homeless though?

No Alan...it's caused by poverty.

The national unemployment rate is 9.2% but the rate among minorities is at least double that.

Check me on this but the U/E rate among minority teenagers is/was 21%.

So many of the working poor are in this group...you can't make it on minimum wage, cradle to grave. The emphasis for many of these parents is to get their children educated. They know that education is the only way out of poverty....and they're right.

Now, how well do you think a hungry child can focus in a classroom compared to one that is well fed.

How well do you focus when you're hungry?

Damage123..

....and thanks again for the moronic and stereotypical crap you posted.

Notice how even the free and reduced meal program...PROVEN to decrease child hunger and improve school performance, therefore the future potential of the children being fed is immediately attacked by Conservatives here on FR.

That's how thoroughly Conservatives have managed to divorce themselves from individual responsibility to society. Some, in fact, even argue that helping people is actually BAD for them. It's a pure culture of selfishness, nothing more.

Do as I say and not as I do:More for me and less for you. GOP/TP Theme Song for 2012.

The programs can decrease "hunger" and improve school performance all they want but that doesn't change the fact that the government is forcing me to take care of SOMEONE ELSE"S KID. I am a responsible parent and have my hands full with my own kids, is that too much to ask of other people to do the same? Take away the handouts and you'd be AMAZED at how responsible the recipients suddenly become.

Remember gang spending is spending:

We owe 2.7 Trillion in tax cuts for money we borrowed. Borrowing money only adds to the debt and is spending.

End the spending on tax cuts today. Be a real American and be against spending even to the rich.

no joe:

Payoffs, AM. Half a billion for half a million in donations.

Pretty good return, too.

It's CORRUPTION, pure and simple.

You can convolute it, twist it, and dress it up in a curly little wig- but, it is still CORRUPTION.

Why would I do any of those things, when I have, since I was old enough to know the difference, been in favor of PUBLIC campaign financing?

You can't blame me if the system is corrupt. What else do you expect?

And it's not confined to one side.

But until it's not, no joe, that's just the way the world works, and I guess you'll have to get used to it.

The rest of your side already seems to know what to do.

GOP/TP Theme Song for 2012.

More like I GOT MINE - SCREW YOU!

Do as I say and not as I do:More for me and less for you. GOP/TP Theme Song for 2012.

BRAVO, Navy. You should be sure to secure the royalty rights on that. ;-)

Damage

Does this put you in support of Pro Choice legislation? I am unclear as to why you believe poverty isn't perpetuated. Kind of like the new legislation in Florida requiring Drug Tests for Welfare recipients,...the true victims of these types of narrow scope bills are the children. Those pesky Unintended Consquences,...right?

Take away the handouts and you'd be AMAZED at how responsible the recipients suddenly become.

By "recipients," do you mean the little kids?

Because they will be the ones who go hungry in the interim.

And God forbid that misfortune and hard times -- like 10 percent unemployment -- ever befall you and your family. Because God only knows that I will resist, with my dying breath, any attempt to provide you or your family with government assistance. Why should I support you, just because you've fallen on hard times?

Because everyone knows there are jobs out there, just waiting for those lazy poor people to take them. In fact, I clearly recall that as being the Republican platform last fall -- Go Grab Those Jobs, You Slackers.

Sigh. What goes around comes around.

Anna Molly..

Sigh. What goes around comes around.

Sad truth...when it does come around...it gets bailed out.

No bailouts for the poor.....just cuts to programs like the school milk program, high unemployment and more misery.

....and I am a fiscal conservative....

P.S....did you see the dozens of semi's from ...I think it's called Feed the Children...pouring into Indiana. That charity collects donations to feed third world children. Indiana...and they gave out all the food in the semi's in about 3 hours.

This happened in Indiana to nice middle class folks who lost their job.

I am so sick of stereotypes and the associated ignorance.

And God forbid that misfortune and hard times -- like 10 percent unemployment -- ever befall you and your family. Because God only knows that I will resist, with my dying breath, any attempt to provide you or your family with government assistance. Why should I support you, just because you've fallen on hard times?

@AM I was out of work for 18 months after 9/11. I ran out of unemployment insurance and had to take out a further loan on my house. I discovered to my shock that after 12 months of unemployment that my skill set was totally irrelevant for the jobs that were available. I spent 6 months of self-learning to get back up to speed. You would be amazed at what is actually on the internet if you are really interested. Also, I was willing to take any job at any salary and adjust my lifestyle to my income. It sucks but it can be done. Cable TV and cell phones are not necessities, and if required internet links are available at public libraries. I can actually read a bus schedule and use buses. At the end of all that I still consider myself lucky to get a job because the process seemed very arbitrary. But don't tell me that the millions out there are working their ass off relearning skills and willing to accept much lower wages because I don't believe you.

Alan: This is for you. Watch it. The speaker is our US Congresswoman for the 4th District (Milwaukee). Obviously, she doesn't know what she's talking about because only you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q3ALmKgmGM

Unemployment never reached the levels after 9/11 that it has now. Those things you are talking about that were available after 9/11 are already cut out of Wisconsin's budget.

LISTEN TO SOMEONE BESIDES YOURSELF FOR A MINUTE and READ THE ARTICLE.

http://wccf.org/pdf/budget_repair_bill_031411.pdf

But don't tell me that the millions out there are working their ass off relearning skills and willing to accept much lower wages because I don't believe you.

This sentence doesn't make any sense. National unemployment of 9.2 percent and higher numbers in the inner cities make sense to me. Being willing to take any job assumes the jobs are there.

Or is your argument really that we have 9.2 percent unemployment merely because people don't want to work? If it is, then you're just wrong, and I know that from my personal experience.

In Wisconsin, you don't get benefits at all unless you ARE willing to work and have GONE through the necessary re-training programs.

We did that welfare reform thing two decades ago, Alan. And now the Legislature has chosen this auspicious time in history to slash the Hades out of what little is left.

So, your whole argument is moot.

Here's an article from Money that details how a default could affect the "safety net."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/23/news/economy/debt_ceiling_safety_net/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

An unprecedented number of Americans now depend on the government for assistance. Roughly one in six people are receiving public aid, with Medicaid and food stamps straining in the wake of the Great Recession.

A record 44.6 million people -- or one in seven Americans -- received food stamps in April. That's up nearly 10% from the year before. The government is scheduled to send out $6.7 billion in food and nutrition support, which includes aid for children, pregnant women and new mothers, in August.

Medicaid, the nation's largest safety net program, serves more than 60 million people. It not only provides health insurance for low-income Americans, but it is also the primary payer for two-thirds of the country's nursing home residents. Some $50 billion in Medicaid and Medicare payments are set to go out in August.

Nearly 5 million low-income families depend on vouchers or other assistance from the Department of Housing and Urban Development to keep a roof over their heads. But the $6.7 billion in payments in August could be at risk.

And some 3.8 million of the long-term jobless are receiving federal unemployment benefits, which could be halted if the impasse isn't resolved. They are scheduled to collect $12.8 billion in August.

"If the federal government defaults, people who depend on assistance for food and housing and other basic needs could find themselves in an immediate crisis," said Jodie Levin-Epstein, deputy director at the Center for Law and Social Policy, an advocacy group for low-income Americans.

Wow. That's a lot of slackers.

Well. According to all the conservative bloggers on this thread, this ought to provide excellent incentive for all those welfare queens to get off their fat behinds and get a job. We should see a HUGE drop in unemployment immediately.

Then what WERE we worried about all this time? If that's all we needed to do, then why did all those Republicans run on a "jobs" platform last November?

Why didn't they run on the platform of just getting those lazy slacker up and off to work?

They weren't pulling our collective leg, were they?

Alan: This is for you. Watch it. The speaker is our US Congresswoman for the 4th District (Milwaukee). Obviously, she doesn't know what she's talking about because only you do.

OK I watched it but right off the top I would say that her remarks contain many inaccuracies. For example at the end of the clip she claims that they are removing healthcare for babies and seniors. Did I miss it or did we remove CHIPS and medicare? She talks about the cuts in the education and college system. What will the effects of this be? For all I know the cut in the education amount was the difference between what teachers paid for their benefits. Is there no bureaucracy to cut in Wisconsin or will every dollar cut be cut from the classroom? Same argument for the college cuts.

Let me rephrase the question, if you are given a fixed amount of money how do you pay for everything you want?

With a fixed amount of income the very first thing I would do is to stop spending on tax cuts for the richest in American.

Funny how the republicans held unemployment for the poor as hostage to continue spending on tax cuts.

Then republicans turn around and say we need to cut spending magically forgetting how much spending the tax cuts cost.

Anna Molly, in your post #8, the beginning of this thread, you referenced conservative economist Milton Friedman who is noted through out Naomi Klein's book as the progenitor of the extreme economic ideology we are now witnessing. And about which Northstar is absolutely correct in his post #8.4.

About 5 months back I recommended Ms Klein's book to all here as clarification for the wildly inexplicable events ocurring since the Bush regimes and escalating as a result of President Obama's election.

I am re-posting that comment as encouragement for all who care to be better informed about historically documented events that explain how we got here.

Savvy Senior, MD-2017663

Haven't posted in a very long time, but reading some very insightful political literature. Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism", is a powerful read for all of you devoted liberal and progressive posters. I implore all of you to read it , if you haven't already. I had to do little fact checking, if any, because most of the events and occurrences I have lived through and remember, some quite vividly,though I was not armed with much of the information that most of you and I now have access to.

Keep up the good work all of you true patriots and please read the book. It explains via narrative, timeline and extensive research and interviews, exactly what is happening now. Conclusion, prior to completion of the last 166 pages, impending, pervasive oligarchy through "Corporatism" via privatization.

We must remain vigilant and dedicated in our actions and goals for the future.

I have since completed reading the book and strongly implore all commentors here to get an economic and geopolitical microcosm of the global manipulation of the world's economies, and why.

#6.11 - Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:31 PM EDT

Anna Molly:

You are on a roll. Keep em coming.

BTW Anna Molly, right on point. Excellent post!

I'm done with you, Alan. It's obvious you haven't read the article which supports what Moore is saying.

You're just making this stuff up as you go along.

Why don't you do some research on what is REALLY going on.

Start here. This pretty much lays it all out, program by program, dollar by dollar.

It's highly instructive.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150295565216203&comments

Moore is not wrong, Alan. You are.

And that is why Scott Walker currently as a 59 percent DISapproval rating.

Meanness isn't popular here.

To everyone else, thank you very much for the kind words.

Savvy ~ I have heard many good things about that book, and it lines up perfectly with what I personally believe to be going on, and what has been going on for many years while most of us slept.

Thank you for posting that info. It's time for me to get up off my own behind and get a copy of that book.

Stimulate the economy, doncha know. Have a wonderful lday. ;-)

maybe you should have a fund raiser for your milkless kids

Savvy Senior, thanks for the reminder. You were truly ahead of the curve at that time. Good research and thinking about where what you're hearing now might lead can be very helpful that way. In spite of the way it looks very little about the Conservative program is happenstance or a reaction to immediate events. It's a steady push toward long term goals.

Anna Molly

I'm done with you, Alan. It's obvious you haven't read the article which supports what Moore is saying.

You're just making this stuff up as you go along.

Why don't you do some research on what is REALLY going on.

Start here. This pretty much lays it all out, program by program, dollar by dollar.

It's highly instructive.

Moore is not wrong, Alan. You are.

And that is why Scott Walker currently as a 59 percent DISapproval rating.

Well I went back and watched the clip again and at 1:09 she clearly states that "babies, poor people and seniors" would be denied health care. Now, in the back up material you quote, from and advocacy group, there is reference to the DHS requiring a waiver from the MOE which would affect the poverty level at which Medicaid is available but as I said how does this affect CHIPS and medicare?

I do not argue with your motives AM but at some point we can only pay for what we can afford. Most of the programs in this country are aimed at short term solutions, particularly unemployment insurance, and there has been no effort to address the issue of long-term unemployment benefits and how these can be structured and paid for.

to vote!

I am almost feeling sorry for Boehner--he knows what has to be done and is unable to get it done. To me he looks like a deer in the headlights.

What scares me, Jody, is I feel like the Republicans DON'T CARE that voters don't approve of their behavior, it's not about winning elections, it's about pleasing the oil companies and the mega rich. I'm not sure the opinion of the Independents even counts anymore.

Steeler Fan-380417

"..........I am almost feeling sorry for Boehner--he knows what has to be done and is unable to get it done. To me he looks like a deer in the headlights .........."

- Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:48 AM EDT

LOL, and you're going to try and tell me that Obama looks like a genius?

LOLOLOLOLOL

The economy was BOOMING halfway into Bill Clinton's second year in office. He had a far more hostile congress to deal with than Obama's had, and yet Clinton got it done.

Obama has done NOTHING to quell the counties economic woes. If anything he's only made it worse.

But idiots like you will continue to sing this guy's praises as if he's the new messiah.

Please, next time around, go back to the whatever extremeist fringe party you came from (Green, Progressive, Liberal, Socialist, whatever.....) and leave the Democratic Party alone. It will do just fine without you.

J Merle--my comment was about Boehner's leadership (or lack thereof), being as how he holds one of the most powerful positions in Washington. And the extremist fringe party that I came from was the Republican party---I became a Democrat a few years ago.

If you can't see the difference between the problems that Clinton faced and those that President Obama has faced, you need to re-read your history.

J.Merle...is another one with a blind hatred of our Pres...still carrying the Hillary flag. Rabid hatred produces irrational thoughts.

J. Merle Stanley-2759623

Bill Clinton truly is a genius and I wish we could give him a third term, like FDR had, however, President Obama is in office now, Hillary Clinton is an important part of his administration (she's doing a great job) so could you please hold off on the Obama sniping? We get it, you don't like him, but dissing him won't bring Clinton back, (sadly)

Our children are not pawns in the political game

I disagree. The GOTP is for right to life too bad that when you get here all bets are off! Starving in the richest most prosperous country in the world? Unfunded Schools? Sorry, You're on your own pal! Good Luck! Boot straps you know. I know let's build more prisons, yeah that's the ticket!

Bill Clinton truly is a genius and I wish we could give him a third term...

You are so right Amy!

I miss Bill. They tried and tried to push him off the wall. But as a true leader he stayed focused on the job at hand not the sideshow. Now back to reality. You are so right no time to waste wishing and certainly not dissing.

devie:

Great post simple and direct to the point. The GOP/TP has stolen the boots of our children and making them go bare foot.

Good Luck! Boot straps you know.

Thanks Navy. Yep it's no child left a dime! Brought to you by our pals at the GOTP (aka Norquist Lackies Inc.)!

fred: I like your predictions. You could be right-on.

Fred, we can only hope. Educating the electorate, is the most urgent and important community service anyone who cares for this great country and it's future can perform.

Help register folks to vote, make sure they know what ID they need to be able to vote and where exactly they can vote. There are forces working to make sure or make it harder for people to vote and all eligible citizens have a responsibility to know these things and get out and vote.

Fred:

I think you may be correct. I think we will regain the House and White House. As for the Senate we have to many Senators exposed almost twice as many democratic Senators up for relection than the GOP/TP. The numbers alone do not favor us.

President Obama 2012.

You know Tom, I hope not. This problem started with a supine congress giving an Administration exactly what it wanted (both Republican). Unfortunately, for the current Administration, we cannot kick the can down the road any longer. If we simply raise the debt ceiling and borrow another 2.3T, where will we be in 2013? What will have changed, except for the size of debt? Presume that the President is re-elected, in January 2013 is he going to call for structural changes to entitlement programs, or ask for another extension on the size of the debt?

When Dick Cheney said deficits don't matter did you agree with him, because I didn't.

Alan, your statements further confuse the moronic debate over this issue. Am I concerned over the size of the debt ceiling? Yes!! Am I concerned about the future debt ceiling? Yes!! Are there structural changes needed to ensure the solvency of entitlement programs? Yes!!

Using the car debate as an example, the time for those questions are during the budget process. The time to consider spending the money and taking the loan for the car are not when the first payment is due. That must be considered during the purchase phase (the budget process). If you have already purchased the car, you need to pay the bill. And that is where we are at on this debt ceiling. We already purchased the car. To decide after the fact that we do not want to make the payment is irresponsible.

And what is very irresponsible on the part of these junior representatives is to avoid paying the bills on already budgeted and approved expenditures. Why are they intent on wrecking the economy and ruining millions of peoples lives to default? If they are intent on ruining the economy, they will bring me down with it in the form of higher interest rates, which will cause me to default on my obligations. Rather moronic, isn't it?

The debate should be on todays budget and ideology moving forward. We should not be debating on whether we should pay for the war on terror (Iraq). We already commited. The debate is on whether we want to continue the war and continue to pay for it.

So let's get on with raising the debit ceiling and move back to the budget process. It is the future budgets that will determine the future of the debt ceiling. Now there, we can have lively discussions.

@RedDevPS

Are you arguing we cannot cut anything from the current budget? If so I disagree. I also do not accept the car debate as relevant to to the argument. A car is an asset that incurs a one time loan or expense. Our problem is that we are borrowing 40% of our ongoing requirements, that are not going to be paid off in the future but are going to grow as the baby-boomers retire. Do I think they should use the debt ceiling as leverage in their argument to reduce spending...debatable, what how else can they achieve their objective? I posted a scenario above that the debt limit get raised by 2.3T and President Obama gets re-elected in 2012. You think in January 2013 he will call for trillions in cuts in medicare and SS? I do not see this as likely.

Alan:

You have buyers remorse. Can we cut anything from the current budget. Yes is the answer. You give solutions to that, and I as well have quite a few. For example, I would say do not pay any of the bills to corporations for the Iraq/Afghanistan expenditures. Of course, we all know that would be just as irresponsible as cutting entiltlements to SSN and Medicare to pay for the war. So again, I stick to my claim that once committed, you pay for it. Destroying and ruining millions of people lives by deciding not to pay the bills is simply and plainly, unacceptable.

Right. As individuals we don't get to just decide not to pay obligations to which we've already agreed. Those bills rightfully belong to us and they need to be paid. If we see ourselves getting into trouble we can, however, seek additional income and reduce future expenses. By doing so our financial discomfort is gradually reduced and eventually we become savers. While government finance isn't directly comparable to individual situations it's close enough to make sense in this case.

awww, too bad you can't make obama your king and he would pass out checks like candy.

Damn Tea Party Patriots! If not for them, the socialists would have been able to do more damage than they already have to our nation.

Chrystal/Damage, I was being sarcastic.

it shows just how preposterous the left's position really is!

mitchj

What kind of socialist saves the captains of capitalism from bankruptcy? President Obama bailed out Wall Street and they have repaid him with millions in campaign donations. Now the Republicans are competing for that dough by holding the debt ceiling raising hostage to protect a few tax loopholes for the wealthiest. PS Republicans don't give a hoot about job creation, or the federal deficit or the middleclass pocketbook...they are looking for donations from Big Money. Ca Ching.

amy, i believe one of the definitions of socialism is the govt taking over the private sector.

how your messiah acheives this, or to what extent is his business, not mine.

ps, i am a democrat.

You can always tell a Conservative has lost the argument when he feels it necessary to pull out the "false messiah" dog whistle. It sounds laughable to most of us but it sure scares the Evangelical Fundamentalists.

Jesus H Christ...j merle...you've been beating the dead hillary horse for more than 4 years. PLEASE get a room or give it a rest...the rest of the world has moved on.

J Merle. Hillary Clinton would be facing the exact same obstructionist GOPTP--that's fact, her husband Bill did and the right disliked Hillary even more than her husband. Hillary lost, move on.

Now, Hillary, stop posting on First Read and go back to doing Secretary of State stuff :)

Merle, you should be here ranting against the republicans as they are they ones keeping our country from recovering. Clinton was allowed to raise taxes several times to dig us out of the debt Reagan caused. Our country was growing.

Immediately after the election of bush the republicans thought the best thing for our country was to borrow money for tax cuts. To start a bigger deeper debt hole than Reagan.

Now we are not allowed to raise taxes thanks to the treasonous American hater Norquist. The republicans do not want America to recover. Just because it worked for Clinton believe me the republicans aren't going to let that happen again.

How about a Democratic controlled Senate that has not passed a Federal Budget in over 2 years????

How about Obama and the DNC denouncing the Debt Commission report when it came out last Dec??

The GOP did not creat this Spending and Debt Limit problem.......they are trying to stop it.

Hi Nash--great post. I think you have put it right--you can't compromise with crazy. If they want to argue they aren't crazy, why won't they compromise, especially when the compromise is tilted in their favor?

I am sure that all the "independents" that post here will now be just lambasting Speaker Boehner for ignoring the Debt Commission recommendations on revenue, right?

If the president had got behind the commission from the start and this was his position then yes. I still don't understand how the President could not even let the tax cuts for the top 2% expire last December. But wait, maybe the Democrats have the answer.

www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-crawford/obama-sidelined_b_908278.html

It's no surprise that Republicans, led by House Speaker John Boehner, went out of their way to insult the president, but remarkably Democrats also went forward over the weekend with Capitol Hill debt talks that did not even include a symbolic emissary from the White House.

After a perfunctory meeting with Barack Obama on Saturday -- a session he had hurriedly called to maintain at least the appearance of leverage -- Democrats and Republicans returned to their caves on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue for the real talks, without anyone from the White House included.

This served to reinforce Boehner's vow to exclude Obama from the discussions. The internal logic of Washington's byzantine protocol indicates a bipartisan snub of the president.

While the GOP obviously would savor a solution to the debt-ceiling crisis that gives Obama no credit, why are Democratic leaders so willing to cut him out?

The answer might be found in growing concerns among veteran Capitol Hill Democrats that their president is a lousy negotiator.

Although they see him as a talented public communicator, his short time as a senator and painfully slow learning curve as president leads congressional Democrats to think it best to take over and provide cover for him once the deal is done.

I would be concerned at the "painfully slow learning curve" comment.

1Hiram:

Why won't the Congress just vote on a clean bill to increase the debt ceiling? Because the GOP wants to grandstand and posture and distract from the fact that they spent us into this situation and now don't want to pay the tab. We are in this situation because the GOP put a gun to America's head and said that they would not do their jobs unless they get their way 100%. That is terrorism.

Alan:

You are soooooo funny! It's always President Obama's fault, eh? Works for me Alan, works for me.

lol

W. Bush owns this large debt and that is a fact.

The GOP did not creat this Spending and Debt Limit problem.......they are trying to stop it.

So, it wasn't the GOP that passed the original Bush Tax Cuts? It wasn't the GOP that passed Medicare Part D and didn't figure out how to fund it? It wasn't the GOP that marched us into Iraq when we were already in Afghanistan?

Thanks for clearing that up.

1Hiram: You are correct when you say that a budget resolution cannot be filibustered. What you left out is the fact that a BUDGET CAN be filibustered. How many filibustered items were filibustered by the Minority Leader? Over 140!

Wait.. I know your response. The Democrats had 60 possible votes some of 2009 and 2010. Only thing there is that Democrats don't all sign pledges that work to the woeful conditions of Congress today. They don't salute their leader and march in lock-step. Oh, that 60 included Joe Lieberman. He was an Indedemopublican.

W. Bush owns this large debt and that is a fact

Well I wish he would pay it back so I can stop blaming the current administration (eh Nash?). Unfortunately Job1, we own this large debt. We wanted more government and were happy to listen to the snake oil salesmen that said we didn't have to pay for it (Dick Cheney...deficits don't matter). unfortunately they do not matter what party holds the White House.

Nashville, another terrific post! Nice rebuttal, too, fred owens.

Geez, 1Hiram. The Senate has passed budgets or else Government would be in shut down. Duh. As for the protracted, drawn out budget battles, ask the GOP why they filibustered, obstructed, delayed the Democratic budgets while passing without question the GW Bush's unfunded, unsustainable ones, debt busting budgets?

Wonder how Obama would do in a recall?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Pay special attention to the CNN poll- Obama is underwater by nine points, while Boehner has an eleven point approval over disapproval number.

So, if something wonderful happened- like he quit in a hissy fit, and took Biden with him- America would have a true adult president, who people respected!

Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants to the people like Wstly, who have donated expecting a big return on their investments?

Alan - If the president had got behind the commission from the start...

I've lost count of the plans now and know less and less about each one that comes out. One week to go and one of the biggest most important economic compromises and legislation packages has to be written, argued, approved, signed. Or at the least there has to be an agreement on raising the debt ceiling and have an agreement that all sides can agree to set in stone cuts and revenues later. Either way I think the only thing that seems possible is the McConnell back up.

Are these people serious? Do they understand what can possibly happen if we default? Why aren't these people's hair on fire to get something done. In my profession when you are a month out to putting out drawings to permit, bid, construction you name it, your hair is on fire. When you are 1 week out you are running on red bull and doing everything humanely possible to get your work done. In lieu of projects ranging in the millions of dollars in my case, we are talking about the fate of the entire US economy.

I can not relate to the apathy and lack of urgency these political idiots have. To clarify, I place the word idiots on those who think defaulting or playing politics with the possibility of default very real. As one who often asks Obama to stand strong I will hypocritically ask him to relent. If Boehner can get his plan through the extremist GOP congress it may be the only way. If a plan can get through the route of most difficulty then that is the one that can be accepted by the more reasoned. It is not worth another financial disaster to prove a political point, or position yourself for the next election. In my opinion, Obama needs to take the Boehner deal - $1.2 T in cuts for 9 months and then $1.8 T in cuts and revenue increases. I understand the cuts will probably be deep, but better to accept the cuts now versus accepting them after the fall of our economy.

We are left with hail mary's. Accepting the debt ceiling commission recommendations in Jan. would have been the better route.

Actually what a lot of independents are thinking is why the Republicans couldn't take a "Win" and move on? Could it be that this is NOT about the debt ceiling? They scream for months that any "deal" needs to be long term and now that Obama says it has to be long term, they balk. Obama, please announce today that the earth is round so we can hear the response from the Republicans.

The Republicans are using the United States as political fodder while they attempt to placate the far right wing of their party. Independents DON'T vote for the fringiest of either party. We prefer or politics to be somewhat middle-of-the-road with a pinch of compromise.

The really sick thing about it is that small to medium size businesses are getting pounded and they don't give a damn.

Here is a novel idea. The republicans have a plan on paper, (in black and white) that can be read. Liberals may not like it but it is there and contrary to liberal belief it does not destroy or privatize social security or medicare, preserves veterans benefits and pays the interest. I have listened to President Obama say that he had 4 trillion in spending cuts, thats fantastic, let's see it in writing, anyone can say it in a speech. Black and white on paper so there is no wriggle room for reneging. Tax increases only go into effect when the spending cuts go into effect. That means no to tax increases now and spending cuts years down the road. They happen at the same time or no deal. Seems logical to me.

Navy I don't know what you have been listening to or watching but everything is not on the table, Obamacare is not on the table and has never been.

Feisty Anyone who posts thinkprogressive as fact is definitely not thinking. That's like saying everything Rush says is the truth.

Anna Molly you post about Governor Walker cutting milk from the school program and how wrong that is, well how about here in my state of California we have Governor Moonbeam signing new contracts with the teachers union which allows that if the money to cover everything is short, no teacher can be laid off, the cuts to equal that shortfall must come from the school districts, in cutting sports programs, less classrooms, school lunch programs or whatever they have to do to break even. I have even read in the liberal LATimes that schools are not allowing parents to make sack lunches for kids because of the possibility of children gaining weight.

Nancy Pelosi probably lost the House because she was one of those "pushy broads" Barney Frank writes about. It's what happened to Elizabeth Warren he said. So sad. Pushy broads aren't welcome in DC.

Martha Coakley loses an election because of a stupid baseball comment. And now the media are wondering if Elizabeth Warren will make the same mistake if she runs for the Senate up here.

I bet they wouldn't ask if it were a man running.

No of course not. Pat where was your concern when the democrats and media were doing the same thing to republican women. No where to be found.

A REAL LEADER would have called the President and tell him they have a problem with this additional revenue increase. Gutless Boehner decided to "Cut and RUN". In Vermont this is not leadership, it is being a gutless coward and a dishonest one to boot. Navy that is toooo funny. A real leader would have produced a debt plan but President Obama had the White House release a statement saying that He was showing great leadership by not putting forth a plan. I guess under your rules Obama is a gutless coward and a dishonest one to boot.

true, simple, and terrifying.

How do you vote for a living? Are you talking about our house and congress? They are the only ones that I know that vote for a living.

Is this supposed to be some kind of back handed slap to the sick, unemployed and seniors?

Running down a group of people to make yourself feel better is sad at best. Self esteem is not built by running other down but by building yourself up. Try it sometime.

I guess I don't have enough hate to be terrified.

1Hiram as I said below I don't give a rats ass what party you are from just get the flipping job done. You know the one you are paid to perform or we will pull your ass out of office and have you replaced by someone that can actually do the job and remember that they are paid by the people who have power to remove them from office.

You know, sir, the Democrats tried to produce legislation many,many times during 2009 and 2010. Do you remember Filibuster? Filibuster by Mitch McConnel? Filibuster is the demon in the glue that used to hold this country together.

This will teach us Democrats,,,when you have the cards, play them. We should have voted to exterminate the GOP/Baggers when we had the chance,,now the fungus has grown.

Not on the Budget

Hey fred and bobr....

You do know that another party CAN NOT Filibuster any type of a Federal Budget Resolution........don't you?????? Democrats have not passed a Federal Budget purely for political game playing.

Repeated for 1Hiram--if we didn't have a passed and signed into law budget, the Government would be in shut down. We have a budget passed by the House and the Senate, we had budgets for 2009, 2010 and now for 2011. If you're going to make an argument, at least get your facts straight.

Jody

Get your facts right before you talk out of your ass.......We are currently operating on a series of spending resolutions passed to keep Government funded.......NO budget was passed for this year by last years DEMOCRATIC controlled Congress. Look it up.......

A clean-sweep is exactly what 'we the people' need.

- Dummy Daddy

I think that anyone who signed the un-American treasonous pledge to Norquist needs to be fired.

We elected you to serve the United States and you signed pledges to serve the rich instead.

Funny how the self proclaimed real Americans are supporting the party that wants to drown our American government in a bathtub.

It like they believe if you drown your wife in the bathtub everything will be just fine. She won't be dead and you won't be blamed.

Wow,,you tell'em vet !

Thank you bobr-298005. I've sent emails to both my state senators and representatives informing them to get the job done or a recall will be started to remove them from office.

Outstanding post Vet. As the LPFC of Newsvine poster always concludes: YOU CONNECTED THE DOTS RATHER WELL.

If we don't learn the lesson from this that elections matter, we never will.

Truer words have never been spoken. I look forward to election day 2012. Hopefully by January 2013 our legislative process will be back on track doing what is right for the American people.

Hear! Hear!

Correction, The Tea Baggers are the problem and we the True American People are going to send these haft-wits home in 2012.

All the rich folks who are backing cuts in social security and medicare (in
other words...on the BACKS of the middle class), are sitting back LAUGHING at us
and how EASY it is to get us fighting each other. Republicans REPRESENT THE
RICH. How about we get rid of the republican party INSTEAD of social security
and medicare. Only a FEW RICH would miss them.

Not sure about the global economy collapse but one thing for sure it that the ability for regular Americans and small to medium size businesses to get affordable loans will be seriously impaired. This means all those companies that our politicians SAY they care about will continue to get shafted.

the tea party's not smart enough to get out of there own way if they wanted deficiet reduction they should have taken the 4.5 obama deal butttt nooooooooo,,,why because they want to bring down the counrty...terriorist couldn't do it...unless you want to classify the teaparty as domestic terror group works for me...

It's going pretty darn good. We just need to get rid of the Tea Baggers and things are going to get even better.

Job1 is the poster that referred to Republicans as "white boys" last week. He is either Donna Brazile incognito or really is that ignorant. Then again, "politically correct" slurs are ok with liberals.

It's working out just fine. Too bad, the GOPTP legislators don't know how to work at change and provide hope for America but that should be no surprise--republicans never look to the future, they prefer the failed policies of the past.

And I stand by my comments, because we all know the truth.

I thought all republicans only had one step plan.

Steal from the poor and give to the rich. I see a lot of variations on how to do it, but the end is all the same 1 step plan.

were did the other 13 trillion come from douche, bush left without paying the check and you want to blame obama what a goof two unfunded wars prescrib senior drug plan.... if you hate obama hate him for something he's responsible for who did the tarp fund or wall street bailout obama or bush... your t.d.t.v.,,, and bush started with 500 billion surplus....if you don't want to use the facts....just say u hate him because he's a dem..or whatever...tell the truth righty...