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Subscribe to RSSAfter House Speaker John Boehner announced that he was once again walking away from talks with the White House, President Obama criticized House Republicans for being unwilling to compromise to tackle the nation's deficits and debt.
"What can you say yes to?" Obama asked. "Where is the leadership? How serious are you about debt and deficits?"
Making a rare Friday evening appearance at the White House briefing room, the president told reporters what the White House had put on the table: $1 trillion in discretionary spending cuts over 10 years and $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs. In return, Obama said he was asking for $1.2 trillion in additional revenues (through tax reform).
"This was an extraordinarily fair deal," Obama said. "If it was unbalanced, it was unbalanced in the direction of not enough revenue."
"I was willing to take a lot of heat from my party," he added. "It is hard to understand why Speaker Boehner would walk away from this deal."
Obama announced that he has called for House and Senate leaders to convene at the White House at 11:00 am ET tomorrow to discuss how to proceed to raise the debt ceiling by Aug. 2. "They are going to have to explain to me how we're going to avoid default."
Right before the president spoke, Boehner issued a letter to House members, explaining why he walked away from the talks. "The president is emphatic that taxes have to be raised. As a former small businessman, I know tax increases destroy jobs," he said. "The president is adamant that we cannot make fundamental changes to our entitlement programs. As the father of two daughters, I know these programs won’t be there for their generation unless significant action is taken now."
Boehner added, "For these reasons, I have decided to end discussions with the White House and begin conversations with the leaders of the Senate in an effort to find a path forward."
This was the third time House Republican leaders had walked away from debt talks with the White House. First, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor walked away from earlier negotiations with Vice President Biden. Then, a couple of weeks ago, Boehner called Obama to announce he was discontinuing talks.
*** UPDATE *** Boehner just addressed reporters, saying that "No one wants to default" and that he's searching for a path forward. He added that he walked away from the talks because 1) "they insisted on raising taxes," and 2) "they refused to get serious about cutting spending."
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The Republicant's failed to drive our economy off the cliff back in 2008, and now they've come back
for another bite at the apple!
These right wing rat bastards are intent on taking our economy over the brink and into the abyss… no matter WHAT the cost!
How greedy & self-centered can these baggers be, to play Russian roulette with the global economy?
Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again while expecting different results…
Remember when President Obama said he would fight the RIGHT fight! Appears, he's put on the gloves…
BRING IT tea baggers – this is not going to turn out well for your side! Not well at all...
PS: Mark - thanks for the update! ;o)
Talk about a Friday night 'news dump'!
Thanks! It's so hot, I was OK staying a bit late. But I need to leave now!
Enjoy what's left of your weekend Mark!
Something tells me, your going to be back before you know it! ;o)
Better fasten your seat belts folks... the market is in for a bumpy ride come Monday...
For the LOVE of God - can someone explain to me WHY MSNBC continues to keep the racist old dinosaur Patsy Buchannon on their payroll?
The old goat should have been sent out to pasture YEARS ago!
Patsy B. is NOT informative and his racist views date back to the early 1970's
CUT the old GOAT loose for cryin out loud! If I wanted to listen to Hitler, I would be watching reruns on the BBC!
Feisty, holy Crap!! Saw Obama news conference. Heard part of Boehner on the car radio. Well the time has come. The tea republicans indeed can only say No. As Obama said "some of them are fine with the defaulting on the debt because the ceiling won't be raised. These guys and gals probably also think the world is flat.!
The deal fell apart because of 400B in revenue line!! This is ludicrous. I hope every citizen of those tea party freshman show up at their headquarters and look them in the eye and tell them "read my lips say ,YES".
Remember Boner & Cantor you spineless weasels can RUN but YOU can't HIDE!
@Northstar - like I said - President Obama said, he will PICK his battles and this is NOT going to end well for the idiot tea baggers!
AMERICA ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION YET?
Cheers!
John Boehner decides to walk away. Just like Cantor did. You call this leadership at such a critical time? You know what. When you are given power, your job is to do your job once you are hired. Yet Boehner will agree to anything, - so long as the president doesn't raise taxes on the rich. That's his one and only deal. And has been from Day 1.
Boehner, you're supposed to assist getting our country back on track again. And doing this on such a scale requires compromise. The president understands this. He has always understood this. That's why he won. The nation wanted government to work for the people, not for the rich. Work together.
President Obama will be 50 years old in a few weeks. He is mature, dignified, respectful. The GOP caucus is anything but.
Pathetic performance today by Boehner. Truly pathetic.
You don't want your taxes raised. So your priority has become - ditch President Obama and get a republican in there. That's the one & only goal of the GOP. Ditch the president whom the country voted for overwhelmingly.
We as a nation will stand with him. He wants to do something about the deficit. Good for him. He gets it. He was hired to fix our problems. That's what he wants to do.
What is it the GOP wants to do?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They have zero interest in investing in the United States of America or its people.
Pat - thank you so MUCH for chiming in as the voice of reason...
Boehner was only doing what he and the rest of the righties DO BEST - cut & run!
I can always count on you wisdom & insight!
Hope you & the family are all well!
Let's face it, when the going gets tough, the p*ssies run for cover...
I am so proud of our President, he has stood his ground and in doing so has exposed the gop/tprs that the only thing they are interested in, is protecting the richest amongst us. Hang tight Mr. President. We know you have our backs.
Indeed, Pat.
Ain't that the truth, Feisty?
I hate to tell myself that I told me so, but I did.
Good luck to everyone else.
I'm not normally a praying person, but I think I'll make an exception here.
That is a good name for them RATS!!
We have a real problem in this country. Everyone wants what they want without paying for it. It's been going on for years and years and years. Hence the huge deficit.
President Obama is trying to reign this in. He's incredibly responsible. We can't spend and move forward until we deal with it. Now.
And he's standing all alone.
Compromise hasn't sunk in yet. But it's what has to be done. I want the deficit dealt with. We should all want the deficit dealt with.
With everybody doing their part. And I mean everybody, including the wealthy who are the worst of the worst.
____________________________________________________________
Feisty -
Everything is cool. (huh? did I just say that?!) ugh. Lol.
Busy busy week.
The economic crisis was a credit issue precipitated by the collapse of the housing market which threatened the financial institutions, not asinine, reckless, irresponsible spending in the middle of a recovery with unemployment at 9% year after year.
Pretty ignorant, but what would you expect from .......
Relevant to 2008, the former president and Obama's perpetual scape goat .....Bush's deficit spending spending with the Demo House and Senate was $1.6 billion a day! Horrible and rightly so, but if Bush's spending supposedly led to the economic collapse with revenue in 2007 of 18.5% of GDP ...... what defense is there to the insanity of Obama's $4.1 billion a day spending with a revenue of 15% of GDP?
Almost 3 times the spending with 20% less revenue? (BTW - Same tax rate .... taxes aren't the issue, they are Obama's shiny little object to deflect the ignorant.)
Dems always hark-en back to the glory days of BJ Billy C. They brag about balanced budgets. While it is true that the repubs where responsible for the balanced budget, (they actually came within 1 vote of a Constitutional Amendment for a balanced budget!) who cares ..... what works ..... works, right?
Nah..... just partisan jockeying for the dems ...... same thing is presented today and Dems will not even talk about it - table it with the little weasel faced, Harry "rat bastard" (your words - right?) saying it's "one of the worst pieces to be brought.....", "violates the the spirit of the Constitution..." blah blah blah
Wow .... and just think ....... according to CNN/ORC - 66% of the American people want a balanced budget. Wonder where we would be today if we had received one more vote in '95?
A balanced budget is greedy and self centered ....... as opposed to .... an idiot that says our problem is that we have run up the credit card, presents an asinine budget that doesn't cut anything while spending more (voted down 97-0 ) and then turns around and demands a clean debt ceiling bill - a no limit platnum card with no spending cuts ...... and oh yea ..... he demands it be extended 16 months so he doesn't have to mess with the country's problems while he is campaigning for his next election!
Kinda like massive deficit spending, massive regulations, war on the private-sector small and medium business, constant demagoguery of the right and chanting the mantra of tax the rich, huh?
Hasn't worked in 2 1/2 years (heck - when in history)..... unemployment of 9% year after year ..... and the idiot continues the same stuff.
Obama said he wanted to transform America. We like America being the world leader, the strongest economy ..... yea, we will fight Obama's efforts to turn America into a broke, socialistic state.
Gloves? .... you mean microphone and teleprompter? It would be great if he had a plan that could be scored instead of demagoguery. Obama is nothing but a rich heckler sitting in the most expensive seat - taunting the players on the field in a game he doesn't have a clue how to play. ( For you libs - The game is not politics - it is serving the country and solving problems.)
Nah ...... Obama's a gutless two-bit petulant punk who doesn't have the courage to even put down a budget that reveals his intentions.
This isn't about Obama and tea baggers - it is about the country.
Amazing how some just don't get it.
We hit an iceberg, Captain Hope and Change says we need to eat our peas and have balance...... so lets hit an iceberg on the other side of the ship to balance the listing. And idiots run past the life boats, to-heck with re-arranging the deck chairs ........ lets run into the cafeteria/restaurant ........ we need peas!
Yep ....... bring it on pea brain.
Went to get some more information and separate the facts from the spin on Speaker Boehner breaking off talks with President Obama. CNN? They thought having Nancy Grace on was more important. Okay, lets try Fox. Nope, a pre-recorded interview with Jeb Bush on Hannity. Okay, what about . . . msnbc. Lawrence O'Donnell, but at least he's talking about the issue.
Pleasantly surprised with O'Donnell. Sure he got in his digs on the GOP and Boehner, this is msnbc. But he was fair in his treatment of the issue. He stated Obama got the better "optics" of the deal, and won the political debate, and there is no doubt that is true. But he also said Obama did change the agreed upon deal, asking 50% more in tax revenue over and above what appeared to have been previously agreed to level with the GOP. That much is true too. O'Donnell and the Posts Eugene Robinson also seem to agree that Obama won the political points, but came up short on his leadership, his ability to get a deal done.
The Gang of Six deal in the Senate, that came in with their proposal late in the game, seems to have thrown Obama off his focus of concluding the deal. He went from getting very close to getting an agreement with Boehner to supporting a vague template of a proposal from the Senate. That's not the thing you do so late in the negotiation process, hence the quote of the day from Boehner "The White House is just like negotiating with jello". Boehner did the right thing, he was getting nowhere with Obama. At some point he had to try and see if someone else, in this case the Senate, will be able to work with him. Lets hope they can. Obama? He's now out of the main process, by his own deeds, so now he can go back to making his pretty speeches.
But again, O'Donnell does a nice job with his show. He's not exactly balanced in his approach, but at least he gives the other side a chance to speak to the issue and they don't get heckled in the process.
joanna, I too watchted Last Word. Lawrence was brilliant as ususal. He knows his stuff. I totally disagree with your intereprataion that Obama was short on leadership. But the debt ceiling is stiil not raised , so we will see what the weekend brings, before the markets opens on Monday.
enjoy your weekend
That's the real key. It's getting down to the time where the markets could have huge swings if something doesn't get done. And failures like this one late in the game will push those markets off the edge.
Speaker Boehner is working with the Senate leaders tonight. It might be the real deal, or just a bluff. When Boehner gets in with Obama tomorrow, his first play will be to tell Obama "Look, the deal with tax revenue is what we agreed on, $800 billion. If you want to get the deal done, that's where it stays. If not, this is a waste of time and I'm going to work with the Senate". Obama can then make his choice about getting serious about the process and putting his plan to paper, or he can balk and walk away.
Boehner's job is tough, as is Reid's (who has been AWOL from the process). They have to drag around a bunch of Reps and Senators and put something on the table that gets a majority of the votes. They have to have specifics and can't be making the wild swings on the details like Obama does late in the negotiating process. Obama has to understand the issues Boehner has to work with to get a deal done. Not doing so makes this process impossible to conclude. And that is where Obama lacks leadership with his inability to understand what Reid and Boehner have to do to get a successful vote on the legislation in their houses of Congress.
Speaker Boehner needs to get a deal done, and soon. He, unlike Obama, has to sell any plan that is made by the leadership to the rank and file of the House. That takes time. Boehner has gotten to the point where he can no longer trust Obama to get a deal done, Obama keeps changing his mind on issues that were apparently settled only to be brought up later by him to be changed. Boehner is right to be frustrated with Obama.
repubs planned to do this from day 1.
The President says, 'the vast majority of Americans want a balanced approach'. Close, but no cigar. The vast majority of Americans want a balanced budget.
The President has blown his cool on TV today. He needs to know his place. I'm afraid he has lost people's respect, and control, for whatever reason. I'm sure there are as many excuses as there are bloggers.
"He needs to know his place.", scott-579755? Really? And just what 'place' might that be?
You only wish you had such an intelligent, cool headed, educated, and trustworthy leader on your side. Instead you have Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, McConnell, etc.
He needs to know his place??????????? He is the president. Don't think you can go any higher in this country. What place were you thinking of?
So did Obama "Change the goal line", or is Boehner wrong? Here's a hint;
Obama said recently that they were negotiating $3 in budget cuts for every $1 of tax increases, but in Obama's press conference, he said that the latest 'deal' he was pushing was $1.65 Trillion in Budget cuts for $1.2 Trillion in new taxes. That's only $1.38 in cuts for every $1 in tax increases.
I have to believe Boehner on this, and it looks like Obama 'Speaks with a forked tongue'.
How can you 'negotiate' with someone that is not honest and keeps changing the rules.
PS - The Republicans have explained their plans to cut the Budget in detail, and have actually PASSED several bills to increase the debt limit, but we still have not seen a single written proposal from the Democrats, including Obama.
Obama moved the goal posts JoannaSmith1?
Just taking a page from the GOP playbook. Just read the history of this thing!!
Bout' time Obama woke up!!
he said that the latest 'deal' he was pushing was $1.65 Trillion in Budget cuts for $1.2 Trillion in new taxes. That's only $1.38 in cuts for every $1 in tax increases.
__________________________________
I noticed that too. And none of the geniuses in the WH press room were bright enough to ask Barry about it.
Morons.
BTW, I hope Chris Mathews was watching last night. Earlier this week he went berserk on Grover Norquist for referring to Barry having a "hissy fit" when he doesn't get his way on tax increases. Mathews demanded "A hissy fit!!! WHAT'S THAT?" twice. Well if he was watching Barry last night, now he knows.
Scott, what place would that be? It wouldn't in the back of some vehicle, would it?
He is the President of the United States, to not return his calls is the height of disrespect. Mr Boehner, is in over his head. He is caught between doing the right thing and trying to keep his seat, not to mention his present position. Those beady eyes of Cantor must have burned a hole in his back by now.
Not really.
Speaker Boehner had to take Obama's latest changes, his latest add-on to the deal, and take it to the Republican caucus in the House to find out what the vote count looked like with the addition of $400 billion in taxes. As the Speaker said, during that process he "Stood back from the tree to see the forest" and didn't like what he saw. The Speaker went through an evaluation of what the entire deal looked like and saw that Obama wasn't being serious about getting the deal done. Obama never committed his proposal to paper to show an overall plan. Not doing so showed that Obama wasn't serious about completing the deal. Going through this evaluation process took time and the Speaker had no need to talk with Obama until it was concluded. Speaker Boehner came to the conclusion that Obama wasn't being serious about completing the deal and was just wasting everyones time. So now Boehner is talking with the Senate to see if they will be more open, honest, and serious about completing a deal.
Sure looks that way.
So what happened to the "$3 in cuts to every $1 in tax increases"? That's not moving the goalposts, that's taking the game to another stadium.
Obama is just wasting every ones time.
In all this mess, this seems like the one thing we know for sure.
Yes, indeed. No doubt, one of those big ol' smelly public transportation vehicles that the right would probably just as soon get rid of.
Don't be silly. Chris Matthews invented the hissy fit. I thought that's where you learned it. :-*
The President, on the other hand, learned it from John Boehner and Eric Cantor, with a pinch of Joe Wilson thrown in for good measure.
Gotta admit, though, they taught him well. In fact, at least in terms of effectiveness, I think the pupil easily outstripped his masters yesterday.
Obama slid that one across the table and the repubs spit on it,........remember JoannaSmith1? Selective memory loss?
Obama was forced to present something else, as the $4.3 trillion cut and revenue package was refused by the Chief Boner.
AnnaMolly: What are the chances this one will end up in the SCOTUS? Are we going to see another Bush v. Gore miscarriage again?
JS1 excellent posts, and I give you kudos for being so calm and collective while trying to add civility to these conversations. Mark Murray's reply to FRH probably tells me the most about FR, with FRH leading off and the rest kicking, screaming and pulling hair it makes it apparent that FR was established for liberal teenagers. As for Navy, FRH likes pulling him around by the nose ring. One more observation I've made is FRH is a racist and its proven once again by her attack on an elderly staff member of MSNBC. Yes FR calling an elderly person an old goat is a racist slur. At the sametime FR excepts the fact FRH is the lead post person and is also a racist.
You haven't read all of Joanna's posts , have you Bob?
They're getting higher by the moment, my friend. If we don't get a deal, and the President is forced to pull the trigger, look out. If they're looking for grounds on which to impeach him, then this may be the plan.
It's funny, by the way, that Bob Jones didn't also call out Steve## for saying that the President needed to learn his place. Why is that, do you suppose?
Well ok here is a calm approach for you Bob Jones - if debt ceiling isn't going to pass the stock markets are going to go down big time! Businesses, chamber of commerce all want a debt ceiling to pass.
Once the crash begins you will see everyone scamper to make a deal. It may be too late - S&P and Moody's will downgrade the US even more. We will be unable to borrow. Next catastrophe by Mother Nature in the US will make us look like Haiti. We will no longer be a super power.
All because of not raising the debt ceiling. Proud now with the GOP? The problem is that the brand new tea party freshman are way over their heads and just do not comprehend the consequences. The people put them in to find jobs - that was their platform in running. They are inexperienced and are fools for not listening to the American public.
what Bob Jones doesn't realize or perhaps he does and is just stoking the pot, there are more than one JAS1, this was the night shift poster, and there are others, all with slightly different writing styles, all with the same right wing message, NO, NO, and more NOs
I too noticed the weekend 'gang' has arrived GM! lol
Apparently Boehner decided to work on the public's perception of his performance on the debt ceiling issue. 21% was too high. With any luck at all he can get it into single digits.
As far as the Speaker's "moving the goalposts" complaint is concerned, he's walked away from MULTIPLE potential deals. It's no surprise that each of these packages is different. Every time the GOPTP walks away from a deal it resets everything. When a proposal fails you come at the problem from a different direction.
The one thing Republicans have been consistent on is their refusal to surrender the hostage. They're willing to threaten the economy to get more goodies for their wealthy benefactors. That's the real sticking point here. They should have just passed a clean increase to begin with, as has happened 74 times since JFK was President.
I am guessing that this is going to hurt the "give-me-my-tax-cut-entitlements" crowd far more than it will Democrats.
Repubs, by their nature, don't work. They sit by the pool in Boca Raton or Palm Springs with an umbrella drink and wait for the dividend check to arrive.
If the stock market and investment capital markets tank, then their income suffers. They'll have to siphon off their Cayman Islands bank account funds where, as any repub can tell you, all patriotic Americans keeps their money.
This will be funny to them right up to the point where the Wall Street crowd starts losing money. This declining market, by the way, is right where Paul Ryan proposed sending your Medicare / Soc. Sec. dollars,.....oh yeah!! See where this is heading?
Repubs will lose their stomach for this game of chicken real, real fast!!!
Trust me.
I look for them to cave by Thursday.
There is no excuse for what the Republicans are doing. Thursday morning the story was the backlash President Obama was getting from his own party over proposed cuts to entitlements, then the next thing you know, its the Republicans who walked away from the opportunity to back an historic dent in the deficit - all in order to protect a few piddly tax loopholes for the mega rich. It's un-believeable to those of us who remember when Republicans were the party of the educated class, the prudent, responsible types. Republicans have morphed into irresponsible gamblers, big rollers.
I know this is just an opinion blog... and I've only been reading it for a week or two, but I have to wonder who this feisty is? I would first guess she's a bag lady with a computor! That doesn't make sense.... a liberal who rarely makes a point without an insult, but likes to act like an Obama speech writer, or maybe just someone who likes to drink a lot while posting political rhetoric and attacks on the right!
Guess I don't really care, but I certainly have to criticize Obama for criticizing anyone who refuses to be taken in by his truly socialist agenda. Good for Boehner! He and the folks really working to get a deal going have to be truly frustrated by Obama's false threats and insistence on imposing taxes on a population reeling from a long recession! Unemployment numbers are very high and expectect to go higher.... no revenue coming from them in the near future. How about we get them jobs! Then they can provide revenue to the government in the form of current payroll taxes! And jobs will take them off welfare and food stamps... a big expense (and growing) for the government.
Wasn't its Obama's fault for the position we're in? Shouldn't we stop that spending quickly with massive cuts in that spending? It's like he's trying to create a socialist govenment overnight and before anyone can stop him! Well I for one appreciate those that are trying to stop him from the direction he has planned for America. Thank goodness we still can do that in this country!
Obama certainly isn't up to the job it seems! Now I also have to wonder what it really is he is trying to achieve! Whatever it is, it isn't working!
Socialist agenda? Socialist agenda? Wall Street is doing better than ever under the Obama administration, banks are flush with cash, president Obama is offering cuts in entitlements to bring down the deficit the Republicans created, and suggesting a few minor tax increases on oil companies and hedge fund managers and you call him a socialist? I suppose you thought Reagan as a commie.
Well Amy, the REAL Reagan (not the myth) would be a RINO in today's extremist GOP, so he probably was a commie.
So much for all those "are you a communist hearings".
Here is what an economist with George Mason University has to say about the threat of United States debt default:
"...it would appear to be quite likely that the United States will experience a debt crisis within the next two decades, unless the path for fiscal policy changes from what is projected by the Congressional Budget Office."
Here is the rest of Arnold Kling's study on the likelihood of the United States defaulting on its debt and when that is most likely to happen:
Let's hope that Congress ceases playing their political games.
There's been way too much overwrought reaction to the collapse of the talks between President Obama and Speaker Boehner on a long-term deal to address the debt crisis...most notably, from President Obama.
It's been evident for awhile now that there would have to be a separate deal to raise the debt ceiling ahead of the August deadline simply because there is insufficient time to complete an agreement as complex as comprehensive legislation intended to alter the nation's present debt curve. The best they could have hoped for was an agreement-in-principle, and now even that's off the table.
The raising of the debt ceiling and a compromise on long-term debt are now completely separate issues.
The debt ceiling will be raised, probably along the lines of the proposal by Senator McConnell. There is no disagreement among the interested parties that the debt ceiling must be raised in order to prevent default. This will allow President Obama to add to the nation's debt between now and Election Day in 2012.
Many assume that the breakdown in negotiations for a long term agreement benefits President Obama politically...don't be so sure of that.
Without a long-term solution, the debt crisis remains on the table as an issue for the 2012 elections, as the nation's debt continues to rise at a $4 billion/day rate, and comprises more than 40 cents of every dollar spent by the federal government.
The issue now stays front-and-center for voters in President Obama's reelection campaign. That cannot be considered the desired outcome for the President. A long-term agreement would have made the issue go away...instead, along with jobs and the economy, the President will have to defend his record on the nation's debt as well.
Without a doubt, the bipartisan "Gang Of Six", will continue to work on a legislative solution to the debt crisis based on the debt commission Plan that the President has, to date, refused to accept.
They soldiered on when President Obama decided to undermine their efforts with VP Biden's failed fiasco, and this latest failure isn't likely to deter them either. They continue to be the last best hope for a specific, detailed bill that members of Congress can actually vote on, up or down, and actually be signed into law by the President.
As debt commission co-chair Alan Simpson said last April:
"Pray for the Gang of Six."
The real "adults in the room".
You may be right. All I know is that, if the market is looking for an excuse for a little profit-taking, then here we go.
Say a little prayer for all of us.
I believe my money invested in Silver will do well because of the poor efforts coming from the White House! Thanks Mr. President and all the other fine politicians who represent us!
"Within the next two decades."
So why are radical Conservatives working so hard to produce a default in the next two weeks?
I don't know what everybody has their panties in a wad about. It is clearly worth destroying the economy of this country and, indeed, the economy of the entire global community to stand up for Republican principles. What's the big deal about castrating Medicare and Social Security? Hell's bells, those old folks are going to die anyway. I say force the country into default and implement a Government program to open the depression era soup kitchens again. Lord God, anything would be better than raising taxes on our fine citizens making over a million dollars a year. They worked hard to get where they are. The rest of us can just eat cake! I'm willing to scavenge my dinner and my family's dinner out of dumpsters behind the local Dollar General Market for the betterment of the Republican party. I don't see what you people are so worked about.
Excellent post! Thanks for reminding everyone what default means. Also what putting all the burden of the deficit on the middle class and poor will cause. Depression here we come!
Thanks Millard.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
You hit the nail on the head! I just wish the republicans weren't going to take us all on their rollercoaster ride to hell!
Get serious please :D The default means nothing to us personally, just politicians, business has had a banner year, it's just not in their best interest to build new companies in America when they get tax breaks to build overseas and really... why does my working mean that any of you are entitled to it anyway? Let it default! Watch nothing happen!
Hey cshellz, You are out in the middle of the ocean in a rubber raft, you really want to be the one to poke a hole just to see what will happen.
I can only hope they are not spewing this crap at faux. The default means nothing the democrats are playing games. If you don't get your social security check its Obamas fault. It scares me they are already blame shifting.
What is their plan, bring America to her knees and then by god they will vote republican.
I am glad my 401K is in guaranteed not the stock market and the small interest rates I get paid now should sky rocket. Thanks baggers.
I'd rather poke the raft and fix what happens than crawl on my knees to China.
What can I say, bless you for you do not know what you do.
I know faux has been whipping this up, but trust me you have been getting censored news.
This isn't about crawling on your knees to China this is about crawling on your knees in America to serve your rich masters and Pope Norquist.
Well said Americans First:
Usually I am the Prince of Sarcasm.
Very deftly put.
I disagree therefore I watch Fox? umm, no. I don't watch msm, I do read and compare the different points given including msm. All of this debt ceiling default hysteria is a con. When you get all up in arms about the poor ol grannies losing their retirement you cave and they win. I don't understand how seemingly intelligent people don't understand how they're being played and entertained by this single party 'play' going on in DC. I think you should do some more research and you'll know what I mean.
Being this is all hysteria, how come we always managed to raise the debt ceiling before without this hysteria? If it is so unimportant as you say, why did they have a debt ceiling in the first place?
If it is such a con, why are the republicans holding American hostage to never raise taxes on the richest in America again? With all your intellect and research you must have realized what this whole argument is about don't you? Whats the value in the con for republicans to let America know that their only allegiance lie with the rich?
Or is this just a both sides are the same argument and we should just hand America over to the rich and Pope Norquist.
Wisconsin and Ohio don't think both sides are the same as they fight for their lives battling republicans.
Just where would one research about this single party "play" that only you seem to know so much about? How about a link or suggested search?
This popular con with the republicans goes like this. Its everybodys fault, and it is partisan politics to blame the republicans for anything. This one is a new twist that everything is a play by both sides to con us of ????
Now that's straight, lets do what the republicans want now.
Great point, Americans First. When Conservatives have well and truly lost an argument people come out of the woodwork to claim "both sides are equally responsible."
The interesting thing about Conservative messaging is that there are always multiple, parallel, contradictory talking points on the same subject. Witness cshell's "nothing happens if we default" argument, which is being used to keep the rabid base from waking up to reality. Here's reality;
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_07/the_creditrating_warnings_begi030853.php
Boehner is speaking now and he keeps burping. Is drunker than a skunk. Whatever that means! No tax increases. No tax increases. Which means seniors and children and disabled and veterans suffer so Boehner can get his tan, buy a horse to race and ride around in a corporate jet bought and paid for by your tax dollars in revenue giveaways to big corporations. I can't stand this drunk!
I think if I was stuck between destroying the world and the tea-partiers I would want to be drunk too.
If you know where to look, you can join us at Daily Kos later for a drink.
American First,
Stated perfectly!!!
I could not possibly care less about your childish name calling, casting aspersions, and malicious rumor mongering.
I would, however, like to point out that IT IS NOT WORKING.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/07/22/obama.aproval.pdf
So, what do we learn, after these two men have been in the news and on press conferences for the last couple of weeks?
Obama is underwater by NINE POINTS?
Boehner has a POSITIVE approval rating of ELEVEN points.
See a problem for Obama?
This was taken before the temper tantrum he threw last night. Somehow, I don't think his approval is going any higher.
That snapping sound you hear is millions of wallets slapping shut. Obama is toast.
From the CNN poll, Q2 and Q3 - Are policies of congressional
members moving the country in the right/wrong direction:
Republicans: 37/58, -21 six months ago -4
Democrats: 43/53, -10 six months ago -7
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/07/22/obama.aproval.pdf
Yet, oddly, Dennis, Boehner is the ONLY person named in the poll with a positive approval rating.
Eleven points positive, unlike Obama, who is underwater by nine. With all the vilification of Cantor, even he is only underwater by three points- so go figure. Obama is less popular than your chosen villain.
I do NOT consider John Boehner a villain. I believe he has a nearly impossible job and that the villain is the Tea Party members of the house and their leader, Eric Cantor.
Most Presidents with major issues at this time in their Presidencies are upside down with the favorability numbers. Obama 45, Reagan 45, Clinton 47, Nixon 48, Carter 29. The only reason GW Bush was at 62 was because of 9-11-01.
INDY LIB'S Post Economic Meltdown Survival Tips (brought to you by the "Just Say Whu? Society").
1) MRE's on a cost per calorie basis aren't very economically efficient. Stock up on those cans people.
It may be time for a "14th Amendment" solution to this issue. In part, the 14th Amendment says that all debts of the United States that are lawfully incurred "shall be honored". The president could unilaterally authorize an increase in the debt ceiling arguing that a congressional vote on raising the debt ceiling, while traditional, is not required by the constitution since current debts have be incurrred by legitimate legislative action. There will certainly be lawsuits filed arguing that the constitution requires congressional approval for the debt ceiling, but the issue is debatable and is worthy of examination by the courts. In the meantime, a crisis is avoided and the President stands on solid constitutional grounds.
I agree. And I am 100% sure the President has the backing of the nation of this 14th amendment remedy. If SCOTUS wants to question that let them and see what happens if we default via SCOTUS. Obama won't be impeached. Can't make it through the Senate no matter how hard the drunk Speaker tries.
Actually, I think Obama taking ownership of this via 14th will guarantee his second term.
"So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."
You have the freedom to sign loan papers or not. Once you sign them you have to pay. I expect the President to pay our bills since both Democrats and Repubicans agreed to the signing of said loans. And pay them "with thunderous applause" from us. You want the freedom to take loans out and not pay them? Try moving to Greece or Ireland.
Actually it sounds like the 14th Amendment doesn't give the President that power; it requires Congress to make sure the bills get paid. Congress has the authorization and the duty to pay bills. The President does not have unilateral power to pass legislation; in fact, the power to pass legislation is reserved to the legislative branch.
The President has power to execute the laws. The 14th Amendment is a law.
The debts we have already incurred by legislation previously passed are "authorized by law." That's what we're talking about. Not future debt, but debt we've already incurred.
Ergo, paying that debt does not require new legislation, and the President has a plausible argument.
The debt ceiling itself, to the extent that it conflicts with the 14th Amendment, is subject to some question as to its constitutionality.
I agree! The president should be allowed to print all the money he needs to pay off all those entitlements. I, too, am going to go out and get a bunch of credits cards and run them all up so I don't have to cut back! We ALL should! That will teach those d*mn people who say we should only spend within our means!
Give it up, cshellz, you are no good at sarcasm.
and another thing: if God had wanted us to take care of the less fortunate in our society, he wouldn't have invented Republicans in the first place. Forcing a default is obviously God's plan. Who are we to go against God's will?
And the good Samaritan lesson is actually a lesson in what "not" to do when running into a poor beat up Jew right? The Priest and Levite were correct in walking away after all, right? After all, it is only mentioned in Luke. Nothing lost if we just ignore it much like the Priest and Levite did by avoiding the beat up Jew. Lesson learned!
Okay, Millard, if you run for office, you have my vote!
If Jesus had been a republican and only had two fish and five loaves to feed the multitude, he would have said, "Let's eat, screw them!"
Pope Norquist I upgraded him up from lord after watching him the other night absolving the republican pledge signers of letting the tax cuts expire. Then changing his mind that letting the tax cuts expire was too drastic that people would think that was a tax increase and would be unacceptable. So if 80% of our country thinks the rich should be taxed more and the loop holes closed, what people are Pope Norquist listening to?
The republicans will break their pledge to our country before they will break their pledge to their Pope. These tax breaks have brought a lot of money into the republicans and they don't want it to end.
Come to think of it when they are talking about job creators, they are talking about their own personal jobs.
so sick and tired of these greedy gut republican leaders and their teaparty low lifes that call themselves working for the American people. Remember the teapartiers and many repubs have been saying they are not going to raise this debt ceiling for the past six months. Now here we are and every intelligent and reasonable congress member both dem and republican know we have to raise the debt ceiling or collapse. But let's face it...speaker Boehner has some stupid teapartiers in his party that will not listen to him or anybody!!! They want what they want...."shut er down!!" they shouted last year. They don't understand nothing and don't seem to care!!! We see what not voting last November has produce and it ain't pretty. We need to vote these stupid people out before they continue to set us back one hundred years and destroy our nation!!! dumb pucks!!!
It's the old "Bait and Switch!" They kept crying for the President to come to the table and when he and the VP did they walked away. Not once but twice! What a joke the Republican party has become. They call the President to the table so as to gain the privilege of walking away on him. Must be an initiation requirement of the pledge to Grover Norquist.
Obama is a whiner,liar, and a dick, Republicans have a plan Mr. President, its called CUT, CAP, AND BALANCE. So eat your own PEAS, and do the right thing for the America. 2/3 of the American public wants it, quit ruling this Nation AGAINST what the public wants, thats what got you idiot Democrats in trouble in 2010, and gave birth to the Tea Party, REMEMBER Health Care Reform. The Republicans are not going to sign on to a half @ss spending cut promise, that will be voted down next time a budget comes around, because you Democrats are liars. So quit with the BS, quit acting like a whiney little brat because you can't have your way. I know your not use to it Mr. President, cause in your cottled life no one has ever said it to you before, but to your quote unquote "added revenue"(tax hikes)............NO
republicans want to play lip service with fancy phrases...CUT, CAP & Balance is a joke and would have devastating results. And we suppose to allow this cause they think they won huge in November and can do whatever they like. Remember it was the veterans republicans like speaker Boehner and others that refused to even speak the work COMPROMISE. So in a sense, he taught those newbie teapartiers exactly what they are now doing, being adamant. Now the republican party has no control over the Frankenstein that they helped bring to life.
Boy, will that make it hard to pay for the wars you guys keep starting....that is a major reason we're where we are now...remember Bush and cheney lying us into a war and than not adding it into the budget....I have a question for you--the rich already got their tax break, remember,----so where are all those jobs they were going to make?
You must have a least a million dollars to be so upset about the tax increases.
I am really sorry about that, but the tax cuts have cost our country 2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS and you rich have been getting quite a bargain. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask you to now pay more if you really are so worried about the debt after realizing your tax cuts caused a large chunk of it.
If republicans watched your own presidents as much as you do Democrats, we wouldn't be where we are today.
The "balance" part of the equation would be a balanced budget amendment, which would have to pass through all 60 state legislatures within 10 years and pass in 2/3 of them. Anyone could say they would vote for a balanced budget amendment, but it is not in Congress' power to do that.
Yeah...it is cut the poor and middleclass and make them poorer, cap how much the rich have to pay so they can buy more jets and mansions, and balance the budget on the backs of the poor, middle class, elderly, and young.
Stop quoting Mark Halperin, Mruseurhead...he's suspended indefinitely.
why would Boner and his b*all baggers protect the upper echelons at all costs...hmmm...the old adage is true...follow the money and you will find the rancid little repubs that are getting theirs!!
Mruseurhead, What planet are you from??? Hope your parents have their money in cash and home paid for and credit cards with a zero balance because when the sock market opens on Monday and the bond traders are back at work, here comes higher interest rates, here comes another recession.
not cash, Northstar, gold--cause when the republicans succeed in dragging us all into a depression, cash won't be worth much......I've said this before and I'll say it again--I cannot believe I used to be a republican!
Sue1, The repubilicn party left you.
but welcome to your freedom without having to worry about pledges from canidates of your choice.
Sue, I feel you. The GOP left me in 2000. I had never vote straight-ticket, but the Florida debacle was the straw that broke the camel's back. Everything which has happened since has just confirmed my actions. Sadly, there are those who hang on, hoping to bring about change from within. I'm afraid we have seen the last of serious conservatives in the Republican party.
Maybe we should start a group: 'reformed republicans--LOL! Seriously, the last straw for me was when I stood up for the Iraq war time after time...and then found out we were lied to...and then there was the tea party...that pretty much finished it!!!
Jim, Sue, you can start that group on Newsvine. But be careful to take precautions, certain people (who shall remain nameless but their initials are no jo, no bo, nj) who post here like to eavesdrop on other's private conversations and then tell everyone what they heard.
Jim and Sue, the good news is that you can go to sleep at night knowing that you are no longer affiliated with the party of hypocrisy and hate.
speaker Boehner, when the POTUS calls, you'd think you would answer. Total disrespect dude!! You better cherish your time in power cause you along with your teaparty com-padres will be gone soon enough!!!
Absolutely! I was just talking to my sister in Florida, she agrees with you that it is totally disrespectful---she wants to know what the matter is with the republicans -- and this is someone who has NEVER voted for a democrat in her life!
sueb1.....we saw this coming two years ago with the invent of the teaparty. They would not listen to reason even back then. You said taxes are at the lowest since 1950 and they still would not believe it. So the repubs are reaping exactly what they cultivated these past two years. They could have tried to tone it down back then, but they did not. Remember the teapartiers did not like being called a republican and they disagreed with the veteran repubs. So Boehner and crew kept silent and timid and their little crazies are now in their party.....ha, ha!!! But bad for our nation. We will rid them next election; look how WI is doing it....POWER TO THE PEOPLE, BABY!!!!
sistagirl, since the republicans willingly lay down with dogs, they should not be surprised that they now have fleas. The republicans are at a crossroads where they either have to take back their party or move aside. I'm not sure their leadership has the courage, stength, morals or intelligence to do what needs to be done....which means unless we all want to live in tea party land....we'd best take back the power to the people!
YES WE CAN......YES WE WILL!!!!!
SISTAGIRL: AND ON AUG 3RD WE WILL SAY:
YES WE DID!
We all know the GOP's main agenda is to bring down the President. This is not about anything else and the tragedy is, they are willing to do it at the expense of the majority of citizens.
Spending needs to be brought under severe control, and those negotiations should continue, but to attach it to raising the debt ceiling (which the GOP would pass without question if they held the White House) is plain wrong.
Things have changed since Nov. when low voter turnout and apathy got the GOP in, based on their false promises of jobs, jobs, jobs...where ARE the jobs, NO jobs bills only union busting, trying to cure sexual orientation and invading women's privates.
John Boehner is not honest....I just watched his speech and his face gave him away...the WH didn't move the goal post...all his kind have been given a script that says when the WH agrees to anything, Repubs must pledge to keep moving the goal post.
Go for the 14th amendment, Mr. President, it will guarantee the GOP nothing and you can clearly and rightly say that you tried. The GOP are finished...starting with Wisconsin. Ignore comment 11, the people are with you on this one.
I sure hope we learn the lesson of what can happen when you have voter apathy. People start now--get people excited about voting, register early and make sure you know the rules in your state. The republicans have moved to suppress voting rights in several states. VOTE--even in the mid-terms and the primaries!!!!
for sure....we will be out to VOTE now!!!!
You can add Ohio to that list, they got the republicans union busting bill on the ballot against their republican governors will. Another state with voters remorse, wishing they had never voted republican.
The baggers promised jobs, but that's after they destroy the economy and bust unions. Now they are making more and more people wishing they had never voted republican.
I know you still have faux and they are brainwashing people as fast as they can. Still, I think that it is important two whole states have woken and are rejecting republicanism.
Sue, sistergirl. You are abosultely correct. Reigister to vote, know the state rules. Vote in every election for schoolboard, mayor, senate, president. Vote in primaries, and general elections. It is the one freedom no one can take away from you. but only you can throw it away.
Better yet...go on and register with Obama 2012 and volunteer to help get others registered.
Michigan is in. Time to light the fuse on this one!!!
Looks like Mruserhead is becoming a little unhinged.
NorthstarDFL......you can bet on it. I'm registered and making sure I will be out to vote. I will even get my seventy-nine year old mom out with me. I will be calling every friend, family and co-worker to vote. This is a war that the repubs have started and we will not rest til we are back on the right course!!!
Sistagirl, You go Girl!!! But also remember that redistricting in most states might change the boundaries of the district you will be voting in for 2012. Don't know which state you live in. But if you are registered to vote now they will let you know. Go to your state web site, lots of information about the election rulesfor your state. Get everyone you know to register now, don't put it off till 2012.
Love your passion!!!
thanks.
Great conversation. If you doubt the contention that this is war for the radical Conservatives research the '94/'95 government shut downs. Republicans believed that would be the final nail in Bill Clinton's coffin. By 2010 Newt Gingrich was preaching that the Right won that battle and it went exactly as planned in spite of the beat down the GOP took in 1996. There's plenty of information out there to back out a contention that many Conservatives have been itching for this fight since the moment it became apparent that Republicans would do well in the 2010 election.
Research "permanent Republican majority." Karl Rove and other Conservative strategists believed as late as just before the 2006 election that the Democratic Party was about to become a marginal, regional party with no national clout for at least the next generation. One party rule was and is the aim of the Conservative movement.
Research the "K Street Project." That was the hookup between lobbyists and Washington Republicans intended to forever freeze Democrats out of that part of DC--the part where the money comes from.
Research the "House on C Street." That will explain why it is that Republicans get a pass on everything from marital infidelity to pandering to prostitutes to homosexuality while still pretending to be morally superior.
Then vote. Register to vote NOW, and make sure you vote in every election. That's critical for two reasons. Conservatives have a very active recruitment culture that involves bringing people up the ladder from the very lowest levels of government. More importantly on a state and national basis if you make it a point to vote in school board or other local elections before November 2012 you'll be wise to the barriers the GOPTP is putting in the way of voting, and will be able to cast your ballot as is your RIGHT.
Go get 'em, the future is ours IF WE EXERCISE OUR RIGHT TO VOTE.
Wallstreet has steeper rides than ANY amusement PARK...
President Obama please use the 14th Amendment! Tea-baggers don't care about the elderly or the poor!
The country is ripe for a second revolution-not against a foreign tyrant as in 1776 but against an oligarchy of the few, but rich, ruling over the rest of us..Democracy, after thirty years of de-regulation, and trickle-down economics under Reagan (full of Irish charm but domestic harm) the GOP is making a grab for total domination of American political and financial power...If Obama blinks-he sinks and the middle-class and poor sink with him. Sad ! My pitchfork is ready !!!
Democrats version of "compromise" is, do what WE want. I am from "realville" Northstar not Obamaville or the Obamination. And sistergirl your POTUS doesn't have a plan, except to raise taxes. Cut, cap and balance forces honest cuts to spending, and thats why Obama and the Democrats don't want it. Obama stood there before the cameras and lied, he said, " the Repulicans don't have a plan" LIAR, they have a plan its called CUT, CAP and BALANCE. Where is your plan Mr. President??? Anybody READ it................hello........No.... he doen't have anything in writing.............REALVILLE NORTHSTAR REALVILLE......and if we go passed the debt deadline, its called descresionary spending, as the head of the executive branch of the government Obama will deciede who gets paid, so if Social Security checks don't go out.....its on Obama. And by the way Obama did not need to involve Congress in debt talks, he could have cut spending and balanced the budget on his own, again, he is the HEAD of the executive branch of the Government.......
mruseurhead.....you are indeed delusional to even say that the dems do not compromise. That statement right there rules out anything else you have to say. Have a nice night in la la land. i WFTT !!
I think "realville Northstar" is a synonym for Fantasyland.
Mr please use your head.
I am not sure you realize that the cut, cap and balance has nothing to do with anything but agreeing to never raise taxes on the richest in America again and with the continued wars all the cuts would have to come from the poor.
If you are so worried about your social security, their plan is to cut and cut your social security just so they would never have to raise taxes on the richest. The senate as well they should turned down that plan.
If you are rich, the crap plan would be great. If you are poor well all you get is crap.
From you post you sound like you have been listening to censored news. I am sorry you are defending the very ones that plan on destroying you. Good luck with that.
I think if you read the constitution, you will see that that is in fact not true. Congress needs to pass the budget and it is congress which appropriates the money. Besides, here's the big white elephant in the room...we're not talking about future debt. We're talking about paying the debt, which congress okayed, we already have incurred. If we don't do that, the whole world could go into a deep depression...and balancing the budget is a must for the family budget, it's simply not the way government finance works. And regardless of what the tea party says, government finances CANNOT work that way.
sistagirl
mruseurhead.....you are indeed delusional to even say that the dems do not compromise. That statement right there rules out anything else you have to say. Have a nice night in la la land
You need to do more research !
And IF you think the dems are the angels in all of this, YOU are the one in la-la land !
I don't agree with many things EITHER party stands for any longer. But to put ALL this on just ONE party.. is.. well..... fantasy !
Mruseurhead:
No matter how many cute little aphorisms you have they will not prevent the exposure of your failed ideology.
You repubs are doomed in 2012 now. They were toast before, but now the favorite outdoor sport is going to be repub removal.
Game,....set,.....match! And we're done here. Now that the repubs are safely out of the way, all we progressives have to do is to increase the strength of Obama's spine, and we will actually get these tax-and-spend repubs shoved in the closet where they belong.
Time to rebuild our country.
OPCS....was I talking to you? no, but since you butted in.... Where in my statement did I say that the dems are angels? It is very much a known fact that democrats will negotiate thru COMPROMISING. You know that word that speaker Boehner and others of his party could not say. And if you have not taken notice that the repubs have walked away from how many meetings in this deficit dilemma? Let's see it was, Kahl, Cantor, Colburn; now Boehner walks away too. So you tell me which party does not know how to COMPROMISE. And the American people are noticing despite that you are not.
sista ??
You are picking ONE instance...of recent. OVERALL .. you do know BOTH parties suck to high heavan right ?
Agree, Boehner is horrible. Makes me embarressed to be a rep. BUT.... there is no way in hell I can join the dems. Have you really, really looked at what they stand for (thru history, not just the last year or two). BOTH sides stink !!
NOW.. if you're just going to pick the lastest stink, totally agree, for the 'most' part reps seem to have their heads up their......... but to even IMPLY that dems are any better, is, well, fantasy ! Dems live on ONE premise...raising taxes...(go look it up). And for that reason, and many others, I'm kinda tired of both sides !!
OPCS....was I talking to you? no, but since you butted in
Love your choice of words. How grownup. You DO know, speaking on a PUBLIC forum, that you're speaking to/with EVERYONE right ? Geesh. .get a clue !
opcs.....if you choose to lump both political parties together and make your comments that's your choice. I'm very much aware of this forum, but when you choose to interpret someone else comments and turn them to fit your thinking, then that too is your choice. I will not argue your point cause it is your point. I said what I had to say not to you, you don't like it....too bad.
Huh ??
But it ok when you do it ? Didn't say I disliked it.
From time to time, I like to click the posters names, and see how they *think*.
As in all aspects of life, COMPROMISE usually comes into play. This 'hard line' approach to things, especially politics, is..................
oh never mind.. pfftttttttttttt
Boehner doesn't care about the country he cares about money, our speaker of the house is still the same guy who was passing out the tobacco lobby's check on tse house floor before a vote on tobacco subsidies
I can't help but wonder if the Koch's and other founding fathers (of the Tea Party) haven't shorted everything and are driving the economy into ruin to make a killing and buy everything they don't already own.
Just a thought.
rememember now Eric Cantor has stock that would make him wealthly if we default.
so is that suppose to be some sort of end all statement sistergirl, and what now I am speechless or I am hanging my headf in shame cause you dissed me??????? you proved my point about liberals, you think you have the end all statements, or that you liberals have all the answers, if you libs did why then is this country in the toliet after 2 1/2 years of your POTUS's leadership. So don't tell me what to do you ain't my boss, and you sure don't impress me with your liberal wisdom. OR lack of...........
Mruseurhead, President Obama is your president too. Unless you are really from another another planet.LOL
Have a nice evening.
Sistagirl....don't waste your time or energy with Mruseurhead. There is an old saying that applies here: "A wise man knows his ignorance...a fool thinks he knows everything. ... but you cannot have an "intelligent" conversation when your opponent is unarmed".
Wow, do you really think this mess came from the last 2 1/2 years? This mess is from 50 years of partisanship and disfunctional government...on both sides of the political spectrum. I remind you, trillions of dollars of our current debt came from the completely unnecessary war in Iraq...which the President Bush declined to include in his debt count.
I think our country is in the toilet because of the 8 years of unfunded tax cuts and wars.
I am well aware that you republicans like to pretend the world just started 2 1/2 years ago. Everything was perfect until we elected him. He inherited a perfect economy and no wars and look where President Obama has taken us. President Obama is not a magician. It took 8 years to dig this hole we are in and with republicans fighting and blocking any and everything just how are we to make this amazing turn around?
You might ask why are the republicans doing everything they can to keep our country from moving forward?
Think where we might be if the republicans main goals weren't to kill unions and social security. Most of all their goal is to make Obama fail and if the country happens to go with him, so be it.
Americans First-3238795,
I have to disagree on the 50 year figure. We had a surplus in 2000 when Bush took over. We didn't even have a debt clock ticking any more because of it. But Bush, with his eyes closed for the next eight years, while the wealthy raped America through stupid wars and unfunded tax giveaways to the them, sent us into a deep deep recession. I still remember that "Deer in headlights look" That look on Bush's face on 9/11 defined him and his presidency.
I think you got me confused with the post above mine.
I totally agree with you. I am sick of the republicans pretending the world just started 2 1/2 years ago and being a republican means never having to say your sorry.
Sorry Americans First, you are correct I was addressing Sueb1. Must be Friday night. Need a drink and because I was watching Boehner's burpy slurry speach, I'm refusing to drink.
oooohhhhhhh scarlett and northstar I am crushed.......not.....you liberals all speak out your @sses because you mouths know better. And yes Sue I realize most of the economic destruction started with Jimmy Carter and his Community Re-Investment Act, forcing banks to give mortgages to people who couldn't afford them, another brilliant liberal policy. Obama is just responsible for the destruction of Healthcare Reform and Stimulus, in the last 2 1/2 years to name a few.
Mruserurhead---the simulus failed because the republicans gutted it and watered it down with tax cuts instead of putting the money into circulation where it would have put people to work. As to healthcare reform, do you realize that there are people who are doing everything right, they're working, saving, buying a house they can afford...and then one of them has the temerity to get sick and they lose their insurance (that they paid for), their house (that they paid for) and they're forced into bankruptcy. Is that right? That's what healthcare reform is about. And, of course, the stuff about Jimmy Carter is just ridiculous--I am not a fan of Jimmy Carter, I think after George Bush, Carter was the worst president in my lifetime...but he didn't start the destruction of our economy. Ronald Reagan, himself, raised taxes and the debt ceiling....where were you guys yelling at this stuff then?
Weird, how thru different ways all our lives take, we have different opinions on which prez, or what decade this mess started... I sorta felt this was coming in the early 80's. Companies started getting the upper hand over their employees. 30 years now they've been 'giving back' the perks. (all the while, gov employees were piling them on).
NOW we have a mess, imo, from the accumalation of all the decissions from the last 30 years.
Automation takes a horrible toll on getting rid of live people. And out-sourcing..we all know that outcome.
So blame who you want, this potus, the last one, the last 8.. etc etc. .
But I still refuse to blame just ONE side or the other. anyone that does, are blind.
As far as the current potus, didn't vote for him, but wished him the best (didn't / don't know why anyone would want the job myself..this mess will take decades to fix..if it can be)..but he totally lost my support when the (cough cough) stimulus plan came out. What a total waste of money ! (ok, only 80% wasted).still too much.
But if you liberals spent more time educating yourselves, instead of spouting mantra, you would find out most of this Nations economic problems stem from liberal entitlements and the inability to rob enough tax dollars to fund them. A great lady Margrette Thatcher once said, "the problem with socialists is they soon run out of everyone elses money".
Ignorance is bliss for liberals, Mruseurhead.
Save your breath for more meanful conversations, with more objective people. Liberalism......such a horrible disease!
Awwww, do you need a kleenex from Boehner? Come one poor sport....by your choice, you are on a left leaning website and blog. When you do that, you do it because you are only trying to stir things up, so "man up" (as your intellectual heavyweight Palin would say) and take the heat. You want validation, go to Faux news.
Even though I thought your comments were poorly thought out, intellectually challenged, full of typographical errors, grammatically incorrect, a poor command of the English(US) language, inappropriate use of capitals, puntuation-challenged, laced with poor adjective choices and just plain stupid....I was enjoying sparring with you, now...not so much.