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The “Gang of Six” proposal unveiled Tuesday was meant, in part, to convince the bond markets and the ratings agencies such Standard & Poor’s that a majority in Congress will do what’s needed to rein in spending, raise more revenue, and, thus, cut budget deficits.
President Barack Obama embraced the proposal, calling it “a very significant step” because a bipartisan group of senators had declared, among other things, that “we've got to be serious about tackling health care spending and entitlements in a serious way.”
Obama’s reference to health care spending was a reminder of a topic that hadn’t been mentioned a lot in recent weeks amid all the talk of deficits, debt, and default.
Two summers ago, members of Congress were launching a historic debate over paying for health care. Now they’re consumed by a debate over the debt.
But health care costs haven’t gone away. In fact, the debt and deficit dilemma is largely a question of how bring the growth in health care costs into line with the growth rate of the nation’s income.
On the topic of health care costs, if gaining credibility with the bond markets is the point of the “Gang of Six” effort, then investors will just have to wait for more information.
The plan is more a statement of intent than a binding mechanism for reining in health care costs.
Among some Democratic leaders, there was, at best, hesitation.
“Yesterday a lot of us were calling over to Sen. Conrad’s office and others asking for more detail,” Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D- Md., said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” Wednesday. “And they said that details will be forthcoming in the next couple of days. It’s really hard to get our caucus to focus on this without some of the details.”
The summary released Tuesday says the plan would order the Senate Finance Committee to abolish the unworkable Sustainable Growth Rate (SGR) formula, which was enacted in 1997 in an attempt to control Medicare cost growth. The SGR proved futile because Congress – including some members of the “Gang of Six” -- kept voting year after year to circumvent it.
The plan also would require the Finance Committee to, within six months, figure out how to come up with health care savings on the order of $500 billion over 10 years. But the plan orders the committee to do that in a way that could “maintain the essential health care services that the poor and elderly rely upon.” How to reconcile those two goals is left unexplained.
The “Gang of Six” plan also says: “Review total federal health care spending starting in 2020 with a target of holding growth to GDP plus one percent per beneficiary and require action by Congress and the President if exceeded.”
To reach the “Gang of Six” goal, Congress in 2020 would have to cut the growth rate of health care costs at least in half. But the outline offers nothing on how Congress might do that.
Intriguingly the plan also calls for unspecified reductions in “tax expenditures for health,” which likely means the tax break for employer-provided health insurance for workers (currently a form of tax-free income).
So that leaves lot in the category of what former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld would call “the known unknowns.”
In the short term, the detail work would be left to the Finance Committee, headed by a senator who is not part of the “Gang of Six,” Montana Democrat Max Baucus.
James Capretta, a former Bush administration budget official, warned Republicans in a post on the National Review web site Wednesday that Baucus “is an architect of Obamacare. If his committee were to produce any real health-care savings at all, it would be with the same kind of price-setting and central planning that was written into Obamacare.”
Damning words also came from the opposite side of the spectrum on Wednesday, from Gerald McEntee, head of a union that is one of the Democrats’ biggest donors, the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees: “The plan makes enormous cuts in health care programs. And the plan would destabilize employer-sponsored health care coverage for 160 million Americans.”
So even without the details, some critics are savaging the plan. Will more details help, or hurt, the “Gang of Six” cause?
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Better be deep cuts - we add $4 billion per day to the debt.
Cuts better be up front, as in now.
So yeah, I'm ready to be totally disappointed.
They see the can. They know what needs to be done. Yet all they can do it kick at it.
You must have a job and health insurance.
Lmao...... What did your great grand father do when he lost his job? And they all did.
Personally, I want to ask ALL the candidates and a whole bunch of Congresspersons exactly how they propose to keep this kind of cost increase in check:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/health_med_fit/article_784dd4e2-af19-11e0-b763-001cc4c002e0.html
Ten percent raises and hundred thousand dollar "signing bonuses" for participating in a feud between health insurance providers, at a time when we have high unemployment, stagnant wages everywhere else, already soaring costs, and no relief anywhere in sight.
Could anything be more clueless than this? And yet, there is nothing in HCR, let alone Republican proposals, that addresses this kind of madness.
As long as we have purely private sector health care, where profit and greed are the supreme motivating force, we will NOT, repeat NOT, bring costs under control.
So how are cos being managed and controlled in England?
How about the PIIGS, they got a firm grip on costs?
Cause the government has such a terrific record on cost control, right AM?
Really? Are we talking DMV - like control, or Frannie and Freddie-like control.
What could go wrong?
Dirty stinking private sector. Cause as we all know the government is awesome at cost control, right AM?
Really?
Here Spanky, let me help you with that; I lived in the UK for the past 25 years. I was a patient of the NHS, not a customer in the US healthcare system. The UK system btw is rated higher than our envy of the world 37th ranking and Number 1 in costs. So, lets' not get confused. The NHS is already in the process of modernizing the overall Healtchare system. Doctor's salaries are capped but have the right to set up private surgeries. As we live longer, the NHS is also having to go through changes in how the system works and is financed. However, as it costs less per person in the UK than private care costs per person in the US. I'm not quite sure what your point. However, what I tend to do in comments like your is translate; You are ok. You have full health coverage either personally financed or through employment. You do not feel any obligation to contribute to a national healthcare system. If you can't afford healthcare US, tough. Would you be kind enough to tell me when your healthcare costs have gone down? Do you know? I'll bet you don't. In fact, what you're suggesting that you do not want to contribute to a healthcare system that includes everyone. The reason is that you're ok. Good for you. You references to England are once again "socialized medicine" and that can't be good, huh!
The problem Spanky is that incentives don't line up with stated goals. The idea of healthcare is to extend life for the lowest price possible. The incentive of hospitals is to make money not provide affordable health care. The incentive for Insurance Companies is to take in as much revenue as possible while at the same time provide as little services as possible.
The European nations do control health costs better. We pay the highest per capita cost along with the highest percentage of our GDP toward health care then any other nation on the planet yet are ranked 36 (last tally) in quality of service. For us we are clearly doing something wrong.
Thanks, Skip, for your insight.
A lot of people on this side of the pond talk about what they do not know. And use that lack of knowledge to try and scare others into their way of thinking.
Whatever happened to the "Gang of 100" and the "Gang of 435?"
So tell me in what areas of our lives has governmnt been able to keep any costs under control? Public works? Defense? NASA? Social Security? Medicaid? Payroll? As a society we accept signing bonuses as part of professional sports, law, etc. They are part of the free enterprise system. Is there abuse in the health care system? Yes. But to believe that the government can run it more efficiently is delusional. How is that border security thing working out?
Interesting point of view Skip. I have discussed this at length with several from the UK. The general feeling, other than being very happy to be here, and not there for a variety of reasons, was that the system there is very slow, and the quality of doctors, and in turn treatment, very low.
Long waits for poorly qualified, and in most cases, doctors trained in other countries was the consensus. At least for the 8-10 folks I spoke with.
But yes - I absolutely believe health care is not a right, is not guaranteed by the Constitution. The health care costs I carry, both personally and for my employees has not gone done, but the quality of care has gone up. Providing "free" care to millions more will only make that worse.
Anna molly - just ask the answerman obama, his shtick is one of controlling costs. YOU need to find this out pronto from him.
It can be argued that health care is more than just a right, it's a human necessity, like air, water, food, or shelter. In many circumstances it's an issue of life or death, you might say. Having it makes the difference between living and suffering. In the U.S., if you lose your job or retire, or come down with a chronic disease, how will you long afford to go without it? For those of you that question or complain why you have to pay taxes to help your fellow man, I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune when you are struck down with a long-term illness, have children of your own to feed and care for, or when you simply get old.
"Government is a trust, and the officers of the government are trustees; and both the trust and the trustees are created for the benefit of the people.....Henry Clay
"Of all the properties which belong to honorable men, not one is so highly prized as that of character."
Henry Clay
"Statistics are no substitute for judgment"...Henry Clay.
THE GREAT COMPROMISER! ........Abraham Lincoln's Idol.
Well, Spanky, I believe it is a right. Just as I believe equal rights is exactly that a right. I believe that government steps in when capitalism fails. Here's the catch, it does fail. For instance, in the UK, as the railways were sold off to private enterprise, out of the way areas originally serviced by British Rail decided the weren't profitable. Those lines were discontinued. Why? Well, because there's no profit in it. However, BR wasn't suppose to be a profit making exercise. Standards fell on safety issues on the rail lines? Why? Safety issues are expensive. Healthcare that you mention as "slow or less of a quality issue", well, why then would we fall below the United Kingdom in the World Health Organization rankings? How did we achieve that 37th ranking and number one in costs? I called my doctor here in the States to make an appointment. First availability was 10 days. So, that's pretty slow in my opinion. Furthermore, my doctor in the UK is as qualified as my doctor here in the US. Hell, Britain has had a medical service longer than there's been a United States. I think we're back to the subject of exceptionalism. We have the Best of Everything and that's just not true.
I always wondered why an employer who has no knowledge of healthcare would provide you with such? You mention the Constitution which is a shield against any argument. It is a weapon that is mentioned when we do not like what we hear. As a "living document" as I've been informed means that it also must live in an ever changing world. Yes, we have certain rights. Not the right to anything or everything........we have responsibilities outside of personal freedoms. Healthcare is one of those.
Michael, how was BP's performace in the Gulf working out for you? Public libraries work pretty well. Interstate highways work pretty well. The military seems to function at maximum capacity. The FAA works. The FCC works. The FDA works pretty well. I think there are many goverment run agencies that are worthy. Always condeming "big city govement" because its a sound bite or something to attack doesn't change the reality that government plays a part in our lives. The days of cutting down wood to build a house, riding the horse and buggy into town, growing corn on the back 40 no longer exists. It can return if you like. Is that the plan?
The "Gang of Six" plan is a plan for failure.
The country is scheduled to DEFICIT spend about $15-20 trillion over the next ten years. The "Gang of Six" plan reduces the deficit spending by $3.7 trillion.
That puts the national debt at close to $30 TRILLION in 2021. We're already spending about 15% of the income on "debt servicing". What is the interest on $30 trillion? What percentage of GDP and governmental income will just have to be allocated to servicing debt? How can any possibly think that we'll be able to afford medicare, medicaid, social security, defense, welfare, etc in 2021 on half the income we have now?
This is a downward spiral. Without some sort of balanced budget amendment very soon, and some serious, immediate reductions to spending, I just can't see how the USA will sustain that kind of debt in 10 years.
I know, "tax the rich", which isn't the answer. It may generate another year of income....but the debt is still heading toward a level that just can't be paid soon, even at a 100% tax rate.
So we have an impasse. The Democrats say "We don't want any real cuts in spending, but we want more taxes", and the Republicans say "We want real spending cuts, but no new taxes".
The House actually passed a bill to increase the debt limit, so now it's in the Democrats court, but I suspect that Harry Reid will do what he has with everything else passed by the Republican House - Ignore it.
DavidMG "The European nations do control health costs better. We pay the highest per capita cost along with the highest percentage of our GDP toward health care then any other nation on the planet yet are ranked 36 (last tally) in quality of service. For us we are clearly doing something wrong."
Of course, European doctors don't have to pay $200,000 per year for insurance to protect against greedy lawyers, and European doctors make only about half of what American doctors do - after costs. That can make a huge difference in health care costs.
The fairest system is to have employer provided health insurance considered as part of income - it certainly is for the self employed.
I agree Spanky, especially with, "better be now". Unfortunately, neither the President nor 'the gang of six' have put anything in writing. I think that means it is all BS.
Health care isn't free...anywhere. France supposedly has better health care than the U.S., but they pay for it in taxes. The average Frenchman has a 17% lower standard of living than the average American.
The problem in the U.S. is the lack of competition. The number of insurers in each state is controlled by the state govt. If the feds would open up competition across state boundaries, health care cost would drop significantly. Look at laser eye surgery. When it came to the U.S. it was very expensive. Once competition arose across the country the costs dropped dramatically.
The debate is not about the current system vs single payer. It should be the current system verse a real free market health care system, instead of the corrupt one we have now where the doctors, health care industry and insurance companies own our politicians.
WHO ranks the U.S. 37th based on health care distribution, not quality of care. The U.S. ranks 1st in responsiveness which includes respect for the patient and patient orientation. If you look at the overall measurements, the U.S. is 37th because it lacks universal coverage and health care is expensive for some citizens. To say England or France has significantly better health care than the U.S. based on WHO's ranking, without explaining how WHO does its rankings, is disingenuous at the least.
Health Care Reform Cost Estimates: What is the Track Record?
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/04/health-care-reform-cost-estimates-what-is-the-track-record/
Medicare (hospital insurance). In 1965, as Congress considered legislation to establish a national Medicare program, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that the hospital insurance portion of the program, Part A, would cost about $9 billion annually by 1990.v Actual Part A spending in 1990 was $67 billion. The actuary who provided the original cost estimates acknowledged in 1994 that, even after conservatively discounting for the unexpectedly high inflation rates of the early ‘70s and other factors, “the actual [Part A] experience was 165% higher than the estimate.”
Medicare (entire program). In 1967, the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that the new Medicare program, launched the previous year, would cost about $12 billion in 1990. Actual Medicare spending in 1990 was $110 billion—off by nearly a factor of 10.
Medicaid DSH program. In 1987, Congress estimated that Medicaid’s disproportionate share hospital (DSH) payments—which states use to provide relief to hospitals that serve especially large numbers of Medicaid and uninsured patients—would cost less than $1 billion in 1992. The actual cost that year was a staggering $17 billion. Among other things, federal lawmakers had failed to detect loopholes in the legislation that enabled states to draw significantly more money from the federal treasury than they would otherwise have been entitled to claim under the program’s traditional 50-50 funding scheme.
Medicare home care benefit. When Congress debated changes to Medicare’s home care benefit in 1988, the projected 1993 cost of the benefit was $4 billion. The actual 1993 cost was more than twice that amount, $10 billion.
Medicare catastrophic coverage benefit. In 1988, Congress added a catastrophic coverage benefit to Medicare, to take effect in 1990. In July 1989, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) doubled its cost estimate for the program, for the four-year period 1990-1993, from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion. CBO explained that it had received newer data showing it had significantly under-estimated prescription drug cost growth, and it warned Congress that even this revised estimate might be too low. This was a principal reason Congress repealed the program before it could take effect.
Facts speak for themselves folks.
hs321, once again we're heading back to that "Best of Everything Comment". The US's ranking of 37th in the world is based no only on access but on goal achievement. Infant deaths and life expectancy are factors in quality of healthcare (examples). We are ranked 15th in goal achievement. Access is greater than anyother nation but that comes with being Number 1 in costs. Its no good to continually bash everyone else's healthcare system just because it sounds good. There is no perfect healthcare system. However, France, Germany, Switzerland and the UK are overall a better bang for your buck. So, if you're refering to the tax base structure on healthcare costs you should remember that we pay the highest costs per person it the world. Standard of living? That also is subjective. Size of house, possessions are only one indication of Standard of Living. You need to also include education, infrastructure, transportation etc etc. We do not have the highest standard of living in the world. We are way down on the list. Finding fault in the agency that does the survey does not constitute fair and balanced evaluation. Our healthcare system does not work. Free market has not proven to be the answer. For profit is exactly that, for profit. It excels in some areas based on profit but fails miserably when viewed overall. Not everything is set to make profit. Healthcare is a social service. All social services are not geared to be profit making exercises.
ROY WILSON-336103
Yes, Harry will block the vote as he continues to do regarding legislation that crosses his desk posing a royalty fee on the mining industry that mines on OUR Federally owned lands. Big oil pays over 18% in royalties for drilling on OUR Federally owned lands including off-shore drilling in the Gulf. The mining industry pays NOTHING like the Democratic supporting big business GE that payed NO taxes on Billions of profits year after year. We need to tax all rich Democrats more, if for no reason, they have paid NO taxes for years! Hypocrites!
Skip....you comment is well taken and expands on my point, that the issue is not a simple black and white comparison of a NHS vs our current system.
However, you stated "Free market has not proven to be the answer." As I pointed out in 1.21, we do not have a free market, but a semi-collusive semi-monopolies in each state. I did make a free market comparison, laser eye surgery, which indicates that moving toward a free market will significantly reduce cost. As insurance covers very few cosmetic procedures, that can also be seen in that market as well.
I agree with many others that the current system is broken. I disagree on the solution however. Medicare has over $20 Trillion in unfunded liability that is not factored into the "cost per citizen". Factor those numbers in and see if an NHS is that much cheaper.
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Why did Obama spend so much? He knew what he was doing. Is the country better off economically today than they were 3 years ago? 5000 pages of regulations choke job growth. Are the people in Washington that stupid?
Folks, the real problem is anyone taking a politicans word for anything they say... They were all elected to do a job which none of them do. Even with the so called budget plan the republicans have come up with..does anyone have any idea what is really on it..or do we all just have to take the word of these elected that they know better than we do what is good for us all. Consider this...this plan the republicans have ....who really helped to develope it...what would you like to bet that lobbyist had a huge hand in it...they have a hand in every bill passed by congress....and lobby money makes sure they get their side heard. If anyone want s to see what is on this bill they want passed...actually any bill they want passed..then we citizens had better start telling these politicans that we have the right to know exactually what is on this bill or any bill they intend to pass that we citizens have to live by...along with that...they , politicans, also need to know that they too have to live by these same bills...NO exceptions for themselves.
Ivan,
Don't sweat it we can just pass the bill and then see whats in it... sound familiar?
I think everyone's missing the point of the article. Healthcare Reform was authored in a vacuum with no oversight or qualification then rushed into legislation. As the article points out the funding for Healthcare Reform is still a mystery.
Its ironic that Rep. Chris Van Hollen's comment sounds a lot like the GOPs concerns about Healthcare Reform.
The high level guidelines with details to follow must stop. Makes nice press conferences but bad policy. Lets not continue to make the same mistakes.
Pass a stop gap then publish exactly what proposed spending will be cut, taxes will be reformed/raised and the overall impact to the budget over the next XX years. Then debate it and finally after it has been reconciled, qualified and presented to the people in its final form with adequate time to contact their representatives... vote on it.
There is one fundamental reason why health care is not and should never be considered a 'right': someone else has to provide it.
Think about it, all the 'rights' in the Bill of Rights are actually prohibitions against the government interfering with X. "Congress shall make no law...", "The rights of the people... shall not be infringed", and the like. Do you think food is a right? Think you can get it without paying for it? Water? Electricity? Shelter? At best, you have a right to procure these things from their providers (i.e. the government can't forcibly starve someone), but you have no inherent right to HAVE these things. You can't. The only rights you have that actually GIVE you something are rights like the right to vote.
hs321, first off, I want to thank you for the cordial response to my views. I respect your views and I always try to see the point of the other person. We may or may not agree totally across the board. However, the ability to speak one's mind without being shouted down is in somewhat short supply in today's world. All the best. Skip Murray
hs....competition across state lines may alleviate some of the cost, but I don't think it would be much.
Obamacare will increase costs....dramatically.
One solution that has not been addressed is a single biller system and billing transparancy. Why does a mechanic have to get approval on his charges before fixing your car and a doctor doesn't? When you go to a hospital, are you made aware of how much will be billed? Or even, who will be billing you?
Why when they were crafting this bill didn't anyone think of addressing the costs of care? Why didn't it include any regulations to equalize billing (when you go for an xray and have BlueCross, the hospital bills $100, discounts $80 and accepts $20.....when you have Humana they still bill $100, discount $75 and accept $25....when you have no insurance, they bill $100 and accept only $100).
1. Standardize billing by procedure. No more networks or network discounts.
2. Single biller system. Only the primary provider bills for services. No more getting separate bills from the anethiesiologist, the pathologist, the lab, the hospital, the doctor, etc.
3. Require financial responsibility from those receiving care. If they have no insurance, make them sign to take a loan out to pay the bill.
4. Change the punitive aspect of malpractice by capping it. As a giveback, be more active iin delicensing bad doctors.
5. Limit the amount of Research and Development costs a pharma company can back charge to the consumers. One of the reasons drugs in Canada are less expensive is their government does limit this. The US does not. While we're at it....figure out a way to get the damn advertising costs out of the necessary drugs. I don't need a commercial to tell me what drugs to take, that's my doctors job.
C Smith, how about water? Do we have the right to water? So, we have the right to vote. That's it. Ok, I vote for healthcare for all. There's a vote. Somebody pays for it? I pay for roads, public schools, military costs, public libraries, governmental official's salaries such as Mr. Boehner, Mr. McConnell etc. So, get back with me on those "rights" under the Constitution thing. Healthcare is a social service. It is a right as much as water.
Joe, unfortunately you are wrong about drastically increasing rates. I recieved a letter from my company about how the new HCB would affect my health care. Guess what? It's staying the same. Actually, I have to read it again, that the patients coverage goes up to 750000 a year after 3 years, and starting off at 250000 the first year of coverage... all the while, my premium doesn't even move.
This had me thinking... is the HCB the problem, or how companies negotiate with corporations (who by the way are not doctors though dictate your service), or doctors, or us. Because of this letter, I truly believe that for profit health care is a sham. Some one stated it best, for profit health care is for gaining the most profit through the least amount of service... though everyone is bashing the HCB passed years ago. It's sad really. Also, health insurance is not what dictates the type of care you get, it's who you go to and who hospitals hire, again which has nothing to do with insurance. You choose the doctor/hospital to go to. So, how bad is this health care bill again?
That's what I thought. If everyones premiums go up, check your company on how they negotiate the rates with the provider, not the bill. The old saying, cutting off ones nose in spite of face, firmly applies.
Skip Murray
You have no right to water! You may ask for it. You may purchase it. You may go to the source and secure it for yourself, but none of these actions makes having water a right. Instead you have the right to take the above actions. You have the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness but all these are tempered within the framework of the law. You have the right to procure health care, even to have it provided for you if the law and the majority approve. This is where the problem comes in, many believe that it is not in government's constitutional mandates to provide health care for the population. I guess the best way to sum it all up is that the rights that you have are those that you can achieve by and for yourself, not those things that you demand someone else give you.
WASHINGTON—Members of the U.S. Congress reported Wednesday they were continuing to carefully debate the issue of whether or not they should allow the country to descend into a roiling economic meltdown of historically dire proportions. "It is a question that, I think, is worthy of serious consideration: Should we take steps to avoid a crippling, decades-long depression that would lead to disastrous consequences on a worldwide scale? Or should we not do that?" asked House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA), adding that arguments could be made for both sides, and that the debate over ensuring America’s financial solvency versus allowing the nation to default on its debt—which would torpedo stock markets, cause mortgage and interests rates to skyrocket, and decimate the value of the U.S. dollar—is “certainly a conversation worth having.” "Obviously, we don't want to rush to consensus on whether it is or isn't a good idea to save the American economy and all our respective livelihoods from certain peril until we've examined this thorny dilemma from every angle. And if we’re still discussing this matter on Aug. 2, well, then, so be it.” At press time, President Obama said he personally believed the country should not be economically ruined.
Oh, we had the economic meltdown at the end of George Bush's reign of terror. He bankrupted the nation. So did the republican governors. I am still wondering if it was all done on purpose so they we would "have" to cut out "entitlement" (what WE paid) spending. Bill Bennetts group called "THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION" came up with the idea to bankrupt America. I do know THIS. What ONE republican says and does....they ALL do. One could be a rat and the other a cat and they would do and say the same thing. The plan by the 6 cuts medicare and social security (by not giving costs of living raises)...so that is a TAX on the middle class. It also cuts deductions for mortgage interest. That is a HUGE tax on the YOUNG middle class. Many will lose their homes over THAT one. They cut many other tax savings for the middle class....so this all adds us to a TAX HIKE on the MIDDLE CLASS. The article I read also said they would close "some" loopholes but was not specific. Loopholes can be gone one day and added the next. It amounts to nothing and will it mean a rich man will lose his HOME? or die from lack of affordable healthcare. NO. The rich guy make money when someone is DENIED medical care and profits on middle class people who LOSE their homes. What vultures they ALL are. This country is going down because of the greed and self-centeredness of a FEW. They own all the riches and dont want to PAY to protect them. If democrats let this be forced on the middle class who has been TAXED to death from lost wage hikes and job losses and screwed by healthcare costs for years...JUST to make someone richer, then they do NOT represent me anymore. They are all up there putting on a PLAY...BOTH parties and they probably had this all arranged months ago. They are just ACTORS on a stage. I am telling YOU DEMOCRATS, the middle class are FED UP. If you think tea baggers are dangerous, you havent seen anything yet. You CANT continuously shove people into poverty...and then have the NERVE to call them lazy...for much longer. There WILL be a change. And we sure as hell are NOT voting for these greedy money grubbing scrooges who have enough money but MUST have it ALL.. The middle class are ANGRY too and POOR to boot.
CJ
You are a partisan hack. George bush's "reign of terror"? You mean when he had a lot of democrats in Congress helping pass laws? When did the meltdown happen? 2008? Who was running Congress in 2008?
This gang of 6 plan is no more transparent than Obamacare. Why the hell does this administration always wait until the last minute to get things done? I think it's because they can then pass something that has no specifics and make things up as they go along. They're all crooks and we will pay for their poor leadership for years to come.
JH - ding, ding, ding you have a winning answer. Don't know what the prize is though.
CJ is "stuck on Bush". I think it's a psychological condition. Not sure if it's covered under Obamacare.
Raise Revenue.
They will.
When Obama lets the Bush tax-cut fiasco expire for that top tier.....
Are you talking about the unfunded tax cuts that add 900 billion to the deficit over the next two years?
TAX BABY TAX!
Well hell, Feisty- that's damn near a trilion right there. Why the hell NOT let 'em expire? After 10 years, they prove they don't 'create jobs'.
Uh huh!
The phony fiscal hawks had NO problem adding it onto the tab - now like all grifters they don't want to PAY for them!
I agree, let them expire. All of them. Yes, it will increase my taxes, but I love my country enough to support it. I guess that makes me a liberal.
Drive by Observer:
An unfunded tax cuts has no alternative source of revenue for the revenue lost, thus creating a need to borrow, increasing the deficit.
How is the Gang of Six plan and unfunded tax cut?
The “Gang of Six” plan would:
Aim to reduce deficits by $3.7 trillion over ten years;
Call for the elimination of some tax deductions and preferences and the reduction of others, raising $1 trillion in new revenue, while also reducing marginal income tax rates to as low as 23 percent for high earners;
Require $145 billion in cuts to national defense and homeland security operations and hundreds of billions in cuts to other federal departments;
Shift to a new measure of inflation called “chained CPI” which would have the effect of reducing future Social Security benefits by mandating smaller annual cost-of-living adjustments.
There are alternate sources of revenue in this plan to offset the tax cuts.
You comment makes no sense..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43807163/ns/politics-capitol_hill/t/obama-endorses-gang-six-deficit-plan/
Job1....how much you willing to pay? I send a check every month after all my expenses are covered. Its really easy you can give the US money via the IRS web site. I sent them $600 this past month. How much are you willing to pay......you know skin in the game. This Combat veteran has a lot of skin in the game. What ye say Mr Job1?
frh is right, tax baby tax- EVERYBODY!!!!!
End the insanity that there should be any worker that should not have to pay taxes.
As far as I am concerned, end ALL deductions and loopholes for everybody. Are all willing to help reduce the debt??????
Our tax system is a JOKE, loopholes for the rich, poor and middle class. We need the KISS approach to our tax laws (Keep It Simple Stupid)!
Sucks getting called out don't it Drive By?
Come on Man, you talked the talk, now you need to back it up.
What the heck are you blathering on about?
Dude, you and the rest of you libbie friends [Amy and Jody I'm looking at you] really ought to just stop with the tax talk. It is readily apparent that you have no idea what the words mean, let alone the concepts behind them.
It is also obvious that none of you have ever even read the Internal Revenue Code.
Even something as basic as the fact that those are Obama's rates, instituted through a bill he signed into law seems to escape you.
Not good my man, not good at all.
I'm not suggesting anything about the '6' plan.
I'm saying- go with it, if you have to.
Let the tax cuts expire later, as a separate issue. Oh, and if I break the window, handing the ball-bat to my brother doesn't mean HE broke the window. Same thing with the BUSH tax cuts.
lmao....... your one irritating SOB! Thats probably why I like you. I have a friend who took a senior management job 4 months ago at the IRS.(the same day they stopped hiring) He was the last new employee they hired. He just took a directors position at a staffing corp, in 3 months he was totally disgusted with public employees and the federal system. This is indicative of how all areas of DC function and why the republicans need to stick to their line as much as they can. To be honest I have voted democratic in the past, but not with this bunch of lefty/progressives. Keep the pressure on the gang of 14...... and Im not sure who said it...... but I do not miss Bev! Nothing worse than a person who acts uber intelligent and uses poor grammar!
drive-by-observer..
That's the whole point.
You can't let the tax cuts as you call them expire later cause then they WOULD be unfunded.
The point of the plan is to cut expenses, generate revenues so as to spur growth in the economy and reduce the deficit.
Again, I don't understand your comment.
And neither does Drive By Ira.
He wants to use tax lingo but fails to realize/admit that the cuts he so abhors are Obama's.
Funded tax cuts. Oh My!
I thought when health care was passed we promised it would SAVE money? Now they say it's going to cost money, and we need to reduce the cost. Oh, right, governmental accounting ...
They could raise some 'hidden' costs,like cutting Mrs.Obama's HUGE well-paid staff..($1,022,500.00 per year!).....OR it would have been nice if the people in the prez staff had paid THIER taxes.....Or close some un-needed overseas bases,and hire AMERICAN people who need a job do the base closure operations,instead of paying a private contractor billions to do the same.....Hell...how much is wasted on A/C for the blowhards of BOTH parties in congress and the senate.........Shut off the a/c...Until they actually DO something.....save some electricity....save the frickin planet....stop paying ;"be my friend" aid to countries who hate us and want to kill us all...bring our people home from wars that we are not allowed to win......(Maybe even get rid of the damn civilian military contractors that get in the way over there,and WE have to go out every convoy to protect thier ass,but they get 2-3 times our pay.)..We have plenty of people in the military that would love to do thier job without interference......Get it together washington,.....stop with the us and them crap......DO YOUR JOBS,and fix the problem.......too bad there's no tax on 'Stupid'...we'd be out of debt in no time.........U.S.Army Disabled Veteran
nisl....I'm OK with paying taxes too. But what I'm not OK with is all the waste and pork-barrell spending by both Democrats and Republicans. You may be OK with the watching your hard-earned money go to waste, but I'm not. Does that make me a conservative?
Feisty and Drive by
900 billion over two years, let's see that's about 450 billion a year, hmmmm. That still leaves an additional 1 trillion per year left unfunded, where do you think that money is gonna come from? I got news for you, it will come from the group with the initials MC. We need the cuts first before any taxes get raised. We need to have a budget that is either balanced or very close to it before one more dime is required from ANY tax payer. I am not against paying more if I know that the money will go to reducing the debt. The unchecked spending by both parties needs to stop. I find it rather funny that both of you are pointing fingers at republicans for this mess when in the first three years of his presidency, Obama has out deficit spent Bush and that is considering all 8 years of his administration! And don't whine about unfunded wars off the books, the money spent on the wars shows up in the deficit numbers because they are based on actual expenditures vs budgeted monies. If they spent the money without it being budgeted or over the budgeted amount than it is a deficit.
HNL
Another false and empty promise brought to you by the Obama administration. When the bill was being debated, republicans stood up and said that it had no provisions for reducing costs, they were ignored. When they questioned how the bill was to be paid for they were told that it would come from 500 billion in cuts in medicare and other revenues. Guess what, that was before the 250 billion passed in separate legislation to fix medicare because it wasn't paying providers enough for their services. Oh, by the way, we never really have seen the 500 billion in promised cuts to medicare anyway! The idea of having everyone insured is noble, but it is expensive. That is a simple truth no matter what country you are talking about. The EU countries are battling with the same problems with health care we are and that is namely rapidly escalating costs, the difference is that here you are paying based on use of service and there your taxes will end up being increased or your services cut. I am not being derogatory about their systems, I am merely making the point that the government is funded by the people and their healthcare is funded by the government. Here health care is primarily funded through corporate insurance benefits and individuals, when costs rise, those that use the system the most pay the most.
Right. Know what? As long as the Big Business health don't care Industry can jack up prices as they see fit so they can tailor their huge profits to their liking nothing will change. And THAT my friends is the problem with the health care in this country.
Until they can reign in health care costs, they won't reign in health care spending. DUH.
In the U.S. we spend almost twice as much per capita as they do in Europe. Yet we die sooner, our babies die more often and we have fewer doctors. It's all about money and health care is only a coincidental byproduct of a profit driven industry. It is in effect, a factory.
And yet, the rich in those socialist countries seem to always come HERE for their medical care. I wonder why that is?
No longer true. Many folks are now going from the US to places (the rest of the developed world) where health care is US quality, but with a 6% overhead instead of a 40+% overhead like ours. I just had an MRI of my shoulder in Italy last month, because the full, walk-up, NON-government subsidized price was €230 ($335). That's less than the deductible on my insurance would be IF I had already met the $5,000 deductible, which I haven't. Surgery in Spain, Canada, even Mexico and Thailand is becoming popular with US citizens due to high quality and cost savings to those with no or high-deductible insurance.
Fred, I have heard people going to foreign countries to save money as costs are lower. Almost all of the procedures were for elective surgery. When it came to some life threatening illness (cancer, heart failure etc.) the people with money came to the US.
TAX BABY TAX!
Feisty I have no problem with paying taxes just as long as the 50% who have not been paying taxes start to pay taxes regardless of their situation. Shared sacrifice remember.
The Gang of Six plan really says nothing. More vague were gonna do this or that. What a joke after I read the plan I knew why Obama likes it so much. No concrete here's what were going to do just more Blah Blah Blah.
It's called "can kicking".
" Damming words also came from the opposite side of the spectrum on Wednesday, from Gerald McEntee,"
Was going to correct "Damming" with "Damning" but on reflection, it fits.
The crooked unions act just like beavers with a "dam" .... they restrict the flow of freedom, and divert the free flow, and steal it for themselves..
".... they restrict the flow of freedom..."
What freedoms have the unions beat you out of?
One freedom the unions have taken from me is an honest and truthful education of my children through the so called public education system which contains within it the teachers' union which contributes to the keeping of inadequate and inept teachers who can't even spell or teach! You can't get rid of a bad teacher and thereby my child's so called right to a public education is taken from my children because of the unions desire to maintain working privileges for people who can't even do their jobs. Not to mention the cost of every American product being totally unrealistic so that the Unions can have all of their employees paid enormous benefits for doing almost nothing.
Ok thats obvious!
floridamom1... could it possibly be that you are part of the problem. Nowhere in your tirade did you mention whether or not you are involved in your child's education. You like to bitch about how it is all the teachers fault, yet refuse to take any of the blame. You couldn't pay me enough money to have to listen to parents like you complain about how their little Johnny is being short-changed in his education. Bring back the days when the teacher could actually discipline the children, without the fear that parents like you will sue because "my little Johnny wouldn't do that".
I could of sworn Obama has all along said, "Jobs are my priority"! Well if he had done his job, then he would have more revenue comming in. Obama's administration said, "Pass this stimulas package and unemployment wont go above 8%"! Well since he has been in office unemployment has been above 8%!
Obama could take this time now to REALLY grab our deficit problem and come out looking great, but for some reason he isnt. Now you see adds on tv trying to compare him to Regean. Obama is in no way shape or form a Ronald Reagan.
I for the life of me can't understand what is so hard to cut spending and try to get back within our budget over the next couple of years. I would be fine with raising taxes but you would have to get unemployment down to 4-5%. Remember Bush senior and Bill Clinton raised taxes but unemployment wasnt bad, so the economy could handle that.
Reality is this, however they kick the can down the road (congress and president) our economy isnt going to get better because the current president keeps pressing policies that are bad for business. Obamacare alone is freaking out many, many business. Cap and trade isnt helping out either!
This guy was supposed to bring Change and Hope to our country, what happened with that? Since we all know the economy isnt going to be much better before election, so I ask what will Mr. Hope and Change run on? He hasnt brought us together like he promised and infact is only dividing. What happened to a transparent administration?
"I could of sworn Obama has all along said, "Jobs are my priority"! Well if he had done his job, then he would have more revenue comming in."
Yes. So, tell us- what exactly should he have done, but didn't, that would immediately have stemed the loss of jobs at a rate of 700,000 per MONTH??
We await....
Oh PULEEZE!
Didn't you hear?
The rich errr... I mean the 'job creators' couldn't hire due to 'uncertainty' until the Bush tax cuts were extended...
So what's their EXCUSE NOW?
Wall Street is sitting on trillions and Main Street continues to be bent over!
Oh, we got Change, all right, James.
Unemployment was 7% when he took office. He Changed it- now it's 9.2%. Unless, of course, you consider the number of people no longer in the labor force. If that number had not "Changed", unemployment would be around 12%.
He also Changed inflation- it is much higher than when he took office.
And consumer confidence, which is much lower.
Housing starts lower, manufacturing, lower. Gas prices much, much higher.
See, what people forgot is that Change is not always a good thing. An attack of appendicitis is a Change, too.
Just not one that most people Hope for.
Feisty After last night dosi do with spanky I no longer respect you opinion. Spanky had his way with you and from what I can gather your of no use to anyone again! Way to go Spanky!
Thanks, but Fiesty is, as you can see, her own worst enemy.
And for all, but particularly Drive By - a new study came out that shows job growth was pretty good right up to the day Obamacare was signed. It then went off the cliff.
The libbie lament about jobs and republicans is done. Cooked.
Now scurry off DBO - you need to develop a new talking point/mantra.
Thank you, no.
The old ones are just fine. Sorry YOU don't like them out in the daylight, though....
frh, are you saying that the prez cannot do anything to create jobs, lol! You are saying it is Wall St falt (a change from Bush, lol); there job to create jobs. Are you saying that if laws are past that may impact the "rich" busniness owners so the risk to make less is no reason to question if they should hire now.
Remember, for every action is a reaction. Freedom allows business owners do what they think is in the best interest of their business which in terms may be in the best interest of their employees( a concept that some do not understand or agree with).
I see others have little respect to your posting, you work hard for that kind of feedback; and I can tell you can care less. Your goal is for everyone to agree with your opinions and when they do not; like a child you attack- have a great day!
Funny I thought liberals hated President Reagan, now they are trying to compare themselves to him. How ironic.
James, bravo.
Once again, we are back to a debate on something that was supposedly solved in a bill that passed a year or 2 ago. First it was the (debt)Stimulus bill- we needed to dump this almost trillion dollars into the economy to create shovel ready jobs, only all it really did was save government jobs that don't grow the economy at all. Now we need to pass a bill to cut health care spending, never mind that PPACA was promised to do that very thing only it didn't address the cost of health care at all. How many times do we let this happen before we stop pretending President Obama's only real accomplishment is huge debt?
Linking the debt ceiling with the current budget and long term budgets is plain and simple STUPID. One has nothing to do with the other and should be dealt separately, the debt ceiling is being used as Blackmail for this and future budget negotiations. The debt ceiling has always been raised without this much drama and to even consider default is just so freaking crazy that it just boggles the mind. Let's make the deficit and debt even worse by defaulting, some of these people are either really really stupid or crazy, or both.
Obama is an abyssmal failure and he doesn't understand business and the proper climate for investment. Steve Wynn is speaking for most of America's businessman and Obama and his merry band of spendacrats are so out of the loop and disconnected from the working class people in this country that it is mind boggling. Thank God he will be gone next year.......he won't be missed...
That is the republican strategy. Hold something important in limbo until they get their social agenda met. That was how they got the bush tax cuts passed, they held up an extension of unemployment benefits until people were about to run out & the dems gave in in order to keep people eating. They really are something.
Brundo, and what do you call the Democrats deliberate non action in passing a budget for this year when they still had control of Congress? They could have passed a budget, but they wanted to kick it on down the road so that the Republicans would look like they were the ones causing all the trouble. The Democrats should have come up with a budget when they were supposed to. Already 7 months into the year and still no budget. That is the Democrats fault.
Oh floridamom, don't cha know??? DADT and the DREAM ACT were of much more importance than a little ole budget... {eyes rolling}
Go back and look at the news from Sept. 2010. The democrats could not pass a budget because a group of 21 republicans made sure it could not happen.
This FR post shows that the debt-ceiling vote needs to be stand-alone because in hurrying to master the dizzying number of details in major reform of spending, taxes and health care, silly and perhaps significant mistakes are bound to be made.
We cannot complete a deficit reduction package before August 2nd; so raise the debt-ceiling and, by the way, pass legislation that 'freezes' our AAA bond rating for ten years while we work to prove we are serious about cutting deficits.
I can see why Obama endorses this plan .. everything is pushed out, some as far as 2020 at which point he will be nothing more than a bad memory and one of histories embarrasments. Meanwhile he continues to grow gev agancies, hire more federal workers, spend more money, raise our taxes, and promise a few guys will look at where we can cut ... All liberals who can't run a vacuum, let alone a country.
Obama and the media must really hate this country.
BBG - When was the last time your taxes were raised? I'm just curious, that's all.
BBG, do you realize the government at both state and federal lost jobs last month, do you realize that taxes have not gone up in over 10 years and have actually been reduced five times, three by President Bush and twice by President Obama.
And yours noidazoid! Mine went up last year! But then again I sent extra money in every month. Some thing my grandfather did as well did my father even though they were self made successful men. Hell my grandfather was a bona fide war hero. 4 silver stars 3 purple hearts and 12 merit citations. The lead NCO of the 31st Seabee div 5th marine. Im no better than the next veteran.....but I do live up to what I preach! Not many people do..... what say you about this kind sir!
Da Noid, I am no liberal, but if we can't have a flat fair tax and get rid of loopholes nothing will change. And if they simply got rid of the loopholes and made everyone pay fairly, there would be plenty of money in the coffers. And in a Democratically run newspaper today an article appeared stating that in America the wealthiest people pay more taxes than the wealthy of any other country. Kind of interesting.
Obama health care may cover some of the coverage. See how the Medicare /MediCal in the midst of Obama health care can cover the needies.
I don't mind so much when people have a different opinion, what I really detest is when they don't have the facts to back up their argument and just spout talking point that have no basis in fact or reality. The Rich and Wealthy are no longer Rich and Wealthy they are Job Creators as if every person who makes a million dollars or more somehow creates jobs solely on how much money they have, people who are poor or who live on Social Security or draw unemployment are no longer disadvantagedthey are now leeches living off the government teat. I mean really, have we become so dumb downed that we actually buy this kinda garbage, Amazing.
They're all clueless but will come up with a paper figure to satisfy the current "crises" but this figure may have nothing to do with reality (and usually doesn't)and it won't be for years until we know what the real cost/savings are. Meanwhile the politicians will say they saved our country!.
Wake up America! It IS TIME to get your gun and start driving to Washington. Our government has been seized by CROOKED POLITICIANS who are about to sell you up the river.
The "gang of six" plan includes:
-- devastating cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and programs of vital importance to American families,
-- reduced tax rates on the wealthiest and
-- lower tax rates on the largest and most profitable corporations
DESPICABLE!!!
One has to laugh. 6% of the Senate or The Gang of Six is now doing the work of the entire Senate and House? Well hell. Then let's get rid of the rest of them and their numerous aides and lawyers and shoe-polishers and wait for these brainiacs to tell us what's what?
Oh I know. Some of the others are busy holding hearings on the use of steroids in baseball or some other such useful activity but let's cut waste, fraud and abuse by eliminating some of these wasteful frauds who are abusing us and the public trust.
Am I missing something here, the article says that within 6 months they have to come up with $500 billion, over 10 years in health care. Is this the same $500 billion Obama says his ACA bill will cut from health care, or are we now looking at 1 trillion over 10 yrs. Remember the $500 billion in Obamacare was found to be double counted in order to try and say that Obamacare was going to eventually save us billions.
Raise the debt ceiling for 6 months and force the democrats to come up with the programs they are willing to delete, cut, or reduce in size, then and only then look at increases taxes. Also require congress to review and incorporate the savings identified by GAO in the March 2011 Report.
"Force the democrats to come up with programs they are will to cut or reduce" As if the republicans never spend a dime. Whooeee
Cap, Cut and Balance is the Republican Plan and they think that is fair?
Cap= Caps Medicare Spending
Cut= Cuts Social Security
Balance= Balances the Budget off the backs of the elderly, poor and Handicapped
Way to go GOP..........is this the best you can do?
Cap, Cut and Balance is the Republican Plan and they think that is fair?
Cap= Caps Medicare Spending
Cut= Cuts Social Security
Say did you even review the plan or are you like disabled navy spouting what the left says.
Here directly from the text:
Let's start off with "entitlement" programs as many have tried to claim that
this bill would eliminate or drastically change Social Security and Medicare.
Directly copied from the text of the bill is the following section.
`(b) Exempt From Direct Spending Limits- Direct spending for the following
functions is exempt from the limits specified in subsection (c):
`(1) Social Security, function 650.
`(2) Medicare, function 570.
`(3) Veterans Benefits and Services, function 700.
`(4) Net Interest, function 900.
Isn't it strange that if it supposedly will do harm to Social Security and
Medicare that they are both specifically excluded from the direct spending cap
this bill would impose. Notice also that Veterans benefits and debt service
interest payments are also excluded.
Cap Medicare - Wrong Cut - Social Security - Wrong again. Balance of the backs of the elderly, poor and handicapped - Wrong again
Again this is straight from the text of the bill verbatim. Look it up and see for yourself before you look ?
The Gang of Six is "Snake oil Salemen at best" The are trying to sell something that the American people do not want!!!! The Dems in the Gang of Six are DINO's (Dems in name only) they always vote Wallsteet interset instead of the American's people interset. I will never vote for any political leader that wants to cut Social Security and Medicare. Our President has lost his mind supporting this Gang of losers!!!!
Ron Paul seems to be the most informed and i cannot see ANY corruption behind him ...
You need to find out what Ron Paul really stands for.........he is anti choice, anti gay, and thinks that private business's should be able to exclude anyone they want......for whatever reason. Talk about going backward.
Maybe we need to go backward a little bit because going forward is looking to be a horrible path.
Whatever happened to the "Gang of 100" and the "Gang of 435?"
Toasty, the most sincere of them are busy trying to pass laws prohibiting same sex marriage in the military. Got to keep it moral ya know?
Oh yeah, the REAL important issues. How silly of me...
As long as they ALL remember that seniors always vote and there are 50 million of us and we vote in our own best interest......because no one else does.
Kathryn, I agree but I will still have to vote to reelect Pres. Obama. Who ya gonna vote for Ms Bachman? She would serve roast seniors at an RNC picnic.
I would never vote to re elect President Obama. If you are a senior do you not remember the past? How many socialist programs and socialist ideas does this free country need to have before you realize that it is not in our best interest? President Obama does not like the Constitution and has said in an interview in 2001 that he wanted to see more of what government should do in it. He wants to take what people have rightly earned and give to others to make things more fair and in my opinion, he is more interested in being President of the World than President of the United States. The man is unAmerican and so are his cronies and any senior from this country ought to know better. What did our men in uniform die for? So that we could go from being a free country to being a socialist country where the elite at the top in government still have more than you or I do and the rest of us have nothing? Wake up Senior Americans and take back the country you fought so hard for!
Nothing like a senior citizen railing against the government and "socialist" programs. Give up your Medicare then we can talk.
We need to pay our bills, but any self respecting American has to know and admit that you don't pay your bills by borrowing other peoples' money. You still owe those other people! So, if they aren't interested in living within their means then WHY IN THE WORLD DO WE KEEP VOTING THEM INTO OFFICE? Why do we vote for these guys? Why do we continue to fall for the game they play where each side blames the other for the problem when they are all the problem? What is it about America that we can't seem to see through what they are doing? Does anyone here not understand the Constitution and what it was created for? Are we to have our own King George? Everyone tried to call George Bush, King George, but in my mind the current President fits the category of King much better. Wake up America! Get rid of loopholes for all, everyone pay a fair flat tax, and reduce the size of government. If you can't see the importance in those 3 things what are you doing?
Why don't you read what you wrote floridamom1. Really, really, really read what you wrote. Then maybe, just maybe you'll answer your own questions knowing its about you and what you do. Stop playing the blame game.
The problem with a national healthcare is the same as a national income tax,We have too many people who contribute NOTHING. And no i am not talking about people who truley can not pay. its the people who job it has become to scam the rest of us.
AMEN!!!!!
TRUCKER: I take you are referring to Corporate America who in many instances pays littel or no taxes as well as country club Republicans who have offshore accounts and milk the system for all it's worth???
Healthcare costs should be delineated to Insurance profits, pharmaceutical profits and then hospital and physician profits. You'll find we can do without the first two, but not the last two. Most of the money in healthcare goes to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. We could cut most of the cost simply by having national healthcare or simply allow everyone to buy into Medicare immediately.
TRUCKER: I take you are referring to Corporate America who in many instances pays littel or no taxes as well as country club Republicans who have offshore accounts and milk the system for all it's worth???
Ozzie Boy Really republicans how many top democrats did not pay taxes. Here's a start Treasury Secretary Geithner Former Senate majority leader Daschle, Congressman Rangel and hollywood elites, it isn't republicans only. By the way GE is an Obama supporter and they paid zero. Both parties get big bucks from corporations so both are responsible.
No its not rich corporations that i am referring to,it is people who have more kids then they can afford,people who won't work,people who work under the table, people who get more back then they pay,and people in general who do nothing but scam the system. corporations don't taxes,they pass them on to there customers(you and i) a flat or a fair tax or a national sales tax would be a better option. and no offence but most of these people would be democrats................
Cut NOW...NOT Tomorrow, NOT next week ,NOT next year.....
this is what has got us in this mess....
Washington operates more than 70 welfare programs at a cost edging toward $1 trillion annually
cut these ASAP....
T BO: They do, huh??? Still cheaper than that cluster phuk called Iraq.
t bo,
And what are farm subsidies, corporate tax breaks, trade barriers in the form of import taxes that protect certain industries, R & D subsidies etc....
You should add corporate welfare into your total and cut that too!
After all,
If our government shouldn't take care of it's citizens who are less well of with other peoples tax money then why should it take care of businesses and corporations who are far from destitute!
add $280 BILLION / YEAR in foreign aid from Obama (up 39% in 2010 from 2009) and we are starting to talk serious cash
...but what is more important - the full faith & credit of the US or ObamaCare
Clearing that fiasco from the books, closing some tax loopholes and cutting $500 Billion a year in spending would be a good start