What is this "table" they refer to, and who gets to sit there?

Pelosi was initially excluded, she threw a hissy fit and now she is there. Durbin, on the other side is there. But really in the end all the congress critters have to vote up or down.

Or is it Reid just longs for the good old days of the health care bill were every thing was done in secret meetings? Too bad they lost all those house seats.

But you are right Al - if they do fold and roll over the tea party types, and from the polls a lot of others will be pissed. It sucks, but in the end it'll get resolved one way or the other.

See reality will ultimately decide, through the market. Again the debt ceiling is a diversion. Economy still in toilet.

You all see what Bernake's comments did to the dollar last night? It is getting crushed. That is bad. Real bad.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says House Majority Leader Eric Cantor should not be part of the debt limit negotiations. He's calling the Virginia Republican congressman "childish."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/reid-cantor-not-debt-limit-talks-140004596.html

Now this is interesting. Harry Reid's Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 800 days. Harry Reid has put forth no plans on the debt ceiling issue. Harry Reid has been silent except when he is being critical of plans put forth by others. And Harry Reid has the gall to call others "childish"?

And now Harry wants to toss Cantor out of the meetings, just because Cantor is finally telling Obama the out of control spending is over, just because Cantor knows what he's talking about and Obama does not, just because Cantor makes Obama look like a fool. Who else do you want to throw out of the meetings Harry, all the other GOPers that stand up to Obama? Pretty soon they'll be just Democrats at the meeting Harry, and we all know you and your ilk can't get anything done.

Listen Harry, if you have all the answers, lets see you propose a solution to the debt ceiling problem, debate it in your Senate, vote on it, and pass it. You don't need Cantor to do that Harry. And not doing so would be childish, don't you think?

Also Harry, you don't get to pick who from the other side you negotiate with. If you don't like Cantor, too bad.

Good point JAS1 - just what had Reid done to earn a seat at the proverbial table?

He is in open violation of the law - he was mandated to pass a budget in the Senate.

What a monkey.

Spanky: What is this "table" they refer to, and who gets to sit there?

Pelosi gets to sit there, and tell everyone that 400,000 jobs will be produced with ObamaCare. Durbin gets to sit there, he's in constant contact with the union leadership to find out what he can do. Reid gets to sit there and complain about House majority leader Cantor. Obama is not there, he just walks out, out of his own meeting, in his own house. I guess he runs crying to Michelle looking for her comfort.

Obama: "Don't call MY bluff".

You don't call your own bluff Barry. Other people call your bluff when they think you are in fact bluffing, which in fact you are.

Why isn't Biden trying to control Obama? The man is losing his mind.

Joanna >>Are you really actually as off the wall as you sound or are you doing it on purpose ???? you seem to be a perfect example of why people like Cantor exist.....seems he represents off the wall people such as yourself extremely well !!!

She's that out of her mind. Rarely a sane thought but is an excellent shrill.

Looks like Cantor is now the spokesman for Grover Norquist.

Norquist is the guy who has 95% of Republican congressional signatures tucked away in a vault. They all signed on with him to refuse to vote for any kind of tax reform. The 3 Republican leaders are terrified right now as they are trapped.

Norquist has their signatures and he is watching. The world is also watching Cantor, Boehner and McConnell to see if they will risk the fiscal life and death of our global economy.

JAS1, Spanky, a guy named bob-numbers and a couple of others only post here to annoy and disrupt. It's their version of sticking pins in voodoo dolls.

Obama: "Eric, I'll take this to the American people!"

Go ahead Barry. What are you going to lie to them about this time? You already told them their Social Security checks are threatened. What's the next lie you're going to threaten them with Obama?

FrankH: JAS1, Spanky, a guy named bob-numbers and a couple of others only post here to annoy and disrupt. It's their version of sticking pins in voodoo dolls.

Frank, can you point us all to the document that describes the details of Obama's and the Democrats cuts to the budget, reform of the entitlements, and taxes they want to raise. Just looking for the details on Obama's suggested $4T in budget cuts.

Looking forward to your response, and many thanks.

Let him take it to the American People. 40% don't agree and 30% don't know what he is talking about.

JAS1 you are on the money with the "Bluff" thing. I want to play poker with Obama. You dare someone to call if they think you are bluffing. You don't tell them you are bluffing.

If someone told me they were bluffing, I would call their bluff.

So, Obama ignores the whole debt crisis until two weeks ago, calls a 45 minute meeting before taking off for two fundraisers in Phillie, puts out an ephemeral "plan"- with no details-threatens to withhold social security checks if people don't adopt his "plan"- then storms outmof the meeting after having a tantrum. . .

And Reid thinks Cantor does not deserve a place at the table?

Get real.

Interestingly, Boehner just told Obama "thanks, but no thanks" on moving the talks to Camp David. Seems Obama wants to be able to have his tantrums without anybody having access to the press.

Ok Frank tell us why my point of view and those of JAS1, bob or anyone else is somehow less valid than yours.

Why is it that our posts are disruptive and your and the fine minds of Feisty, Bev., Navy et. al. are not.

Frank, are you the guy that gets to choose who is valid and who is not? And if so Frank why you? What excellent qualifications do you bring to the discussion?

Do you run a business and employee people? Were you effected by Obama's tax cuts? Do you utilize a Schedule C, depreciate any assets or have any stake in the proposed tax changes?

Well come on Frank, let's hear you walk your talk. It should be very insightful.

Cantor did make one very large mistake. He demanded that Obama be at these meetings. Now Cantor sees why the Democrats tried to keep Obama out of the talks. Obama is a total buffoon to deal with.

Cantor is nothing more than this week's FLAVOR OF THE WEEK for DEMOCRATIC RIDICULE.

Every week they seem to find a new target. When pickin's are slim they revert back to Boehner, McConnell and good old Palin.

Same story from the left... different day. (thats all)

Just in case any one has doubts as to where spending bills are supposed to originate and who is NOT doing their job ....(sort of another way of saying "NO" )

I believe it is Article 1 Section 7 of the United States Constitution:

All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill

And it is not ironic that Cantor also has holdings betting on the US to fail.....more...more..I want more..

Say Frank was Obama poking a voodoo doll when he said the social security checks would be effected?

You have seen the testimony from yesterday's hearing from the head of SS, correct.

That was some great stuff. High comedy.

Things just got a little weirder -

Judge declares mistrial in Roger Clemens steroid case.

FrankH, you've been called out!

What are you going to do about it?

FrankH, Louisville,Ky

JAS1, Spanky, a guy named bob-numbers and a couple of others only post here to annoy and disrupt. It's their version of sticking pins in voodoo dolls.

Yeah Frank.... and the 'rest' of you are out there solving problems... (grow up... this is nothing more than a blog site..)

Spanky-

You guys don't know when to stop talking and start acting like concerned citizens. I know it' difficult especially with hot tea in your mouth but anyway, simply ask your goon congress men to bend over this battle has been won and lost. the wise men in your party know this.

OMG!

Did Pius just call McConnell WISE? (Satan laces up his ice skates as we speak...)

The sad thing is these Republicans Tea Party people that are so illiterate as far as economics, is concerned, they want to roll the dice and not raise the debt ceiling. If it wasn't so serious an issue, it would be fun to see their reaction when all of their savings goes bye-bye as the markets crash.

However, it looks like the wealthy want the Republicans to make a deal, because they stand to lose a lot more if we default than they would lose after the tax loop holes are closed.

Also, let's remember the Bush tax cuts do expire in December 2012 and they aren't going to be extended.

Not following Pius. But sure not Frank's, um, absence.

Sorry bro this "concerned" tax payer has no interest in paying more. Fact is collections are are 18%, just like always.

Maybe you can tell me why spending is at 25%? Can you?

Job1 - so are you saying you are more literate on economics than me? How is it you come to that conclusion. Perhaps you can answer some of the questions I directed at Frank?

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I know a little something about economics, especially as they apply to the very real business of running a business. Do you?

Job1? Do you really not know them there are Obama's tax cuts? THat's kinda pathetic, right job1?

President Obama is going to win this battle and the Republicans-Tea Baggers are doomed in the 2012 election. It's looks like the American people see what crazies these Republicans-Tea Baggers are and the end for them is near.

JAS1 you keep telling the same lies that you here from your fox news tabloid telling, you say that a budget has not been approved in over 800 days! I don't know where you get that info from, but every year a budget is passed has to be passed or the FED government shuts down, including the Military! have you seen that happen in the last 800 days? do you see what is going on in Minnesota? that is what happens when no budget is passed!!!!!!

This budget though later than ever was passed in April! The year before the budget was passed in Feburary. If you want to scream and rant at this president I would hope you would atleast speak the truth otherwise you sound quite looney!

sotb, those little air filled punching bags that look like clowns don't spar.

Spanky, NJNBNJ, JoAnna, first of all, you are quoting from Cantor's version of events. Why should we believe him?! He has an agenda that benefits only him. Do any of you believe in fair and balanced reporting?!

Second, you are misquoting, both on the Social Secutiy quote and on the bluffing quote. Go back and read the articles. Not Cantor's version.

Third, if, like Cantor, you cannot focus on the matter at hand without wandering off to tax schedules, light bulbs and whatever else, why are you here?

Fourth, it is Mr. President to you. Calling him by other names or calling him names only dilutes any kind of discussion you may wish to have. Whatever else you may think of him, he is the Presidnet and deserves that respect.

fielden, I rarely respond to you, but will make this exception- for the last time.

I do not discourse with bigots. Your praise of David Walker exposed you for exactly that.

So because David said that Cantor, has sold out to corporate interests (which, In my opinion, he obviously has), you guys label him a bigot. you really are reaching, and doing anything possible to distract people from the GOPs lack of leadership. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

NJNBNJ, when did David Walker enter into this discussion? I am not aware of why this issue of bigotry would come up. What have I missed? And why are we off topic? Again.

I praised what David Walker said. Because I agreed with what he said. I can distinguish between that and the person. I'm sorry you cannot.

And I'm sorry you think I'm a bigot. I am anything but.

I like how some say Obama is putting everything on the table to make this deal, even his political career. Cantor offered a debt ceiling hike to Obama, but it wasn't the amount Obama wanted and it would have to be done again before the 2012 elections. Obama wanted no part of this.

So don't tell us he is willing to do anything to get this passed. Obviously he isn't. The reason he doesn't want a short term solution is because when they have to come back and raise it again, it will show the people how fast our debt is climbing. When folks see the debt climb another half a trillion before the next elections they will be outraged, and Obama will take the brunt of that just before an election. Therefore he isn't willing to do anything to stop a gov't default.

Backhouse, in post #1.8, properly pinpoints Grover Norquist's influence in the continuing impasse.

Rather than re-post a long piece I posted on an earlier FR story, I'll summarize and post a link for anyone who wishes to get the whole thing.

Norquist is "the little man who wasn't there" in this effort to negotiate. Cantor is his bought-and-paid-for (literally) spear carrier; the congressman has absolutely zero freedom of thought or speech in these discussion. There is absolutely no benefit to including Cantor in the discussions - Harry Reid is absolutely correct here.

Norqust's agenda is simply to bring the present form of American government to an end, and replace it with a Japan-style cartel political economy. What, in fact, is going on is literally a debate about retaining the United States of America as founded and developed over more than 200 years, or a coup d'etat by the Libertarian ultra-right.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/07/14/7081699-first-thoughts-always-darkest-before-the-deal?threadId=3173432&commentId=55964206#c55957954

The other day upon the stair,
I saw a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today -
Gee, I wish he'd go away!

cs: This budget though later than ever was passed in April!

Can you provide a website that points to the Senate version of the FY2012 budget that was passed in April, or in any other month for that matter? How about either the House or Senate versions of the budgets that passed in FY2011?

Budgets have not been passed by any Democratic congress in years. Instead, CR's were used to fund the government.

fielden -

You have just been tagged by the "pink lady technique."

The method is named after the slogan Richard Nixon used in his 1950 campaign against California U.S. Sen. Helen Gahagan Douglas - an elegant and graceful lady who was smeared up one side and down the other with the suggestion she was a secret Communist sympathizer - hence, "the Pink Lady."

Nixon, who never once ran a clean or honest campaign (his 1946 debut against Jerry Voorhies was a classic of smear tactics orchestrated by Pomona businessman Roy Day as chair of the Committee of 100 that backed Tricky Dick), acceded to the Senate with his vicious propaganda and attacks. He justified the charges on the basis that somewhere in California, someone who really was a Communist Party member or sympathizer (and there were quite a few around then) must have spoken to Mrs. Douglas, or even possibly have shaken her hand. Tainted by contact, you see ....

No, none of the RWNJ's posting here have ever made a case about anti-semitism and David Walker. In fact both he and I stuffed that crude attempt at race-baiting down their throats yesterday, and today he and Clara did it again. No matter; they began the chorus yesterday, and now they trumpet the claim as truth, typical of this batch of blatant liars.

But - oops! You touched him! Since they say HE'S a bigot, that means you are, too!

The Pink Lady lives!

What all that garbage really does, of course, is expose these idiots before the others who visit here and read what's going on. The sinks of the sewers are more attractive than these ancestors of pond scum.

Cantor is attempting to leave big spending cuts on the table for the sake of being able to continue, instead of stopping, the tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations, brought to us by the Bush Administration for the sake of trickle down. Trickle Down is a fairy tale that did not have a happy ending. It isn't even tax increases, its discontinuance of tax cuts and loopholes that Cantor is throwing up about. Why? Obviously he is on the Big Boys payroll, is what I think. You people are so into twisting and spinning and cutesy name calling that the big issue of potential global depression, credit rating and government operation is eluding you.

Compromise is the need. Cantor is not able to meet that need and I could twist and spin and assume and pull out my telepathic third eye and tell you what he thinks and why he is doing this, but since I really don't have a third eye, I can't. Anymore than any of you commentators that do this on behalf of Obama and other democrats.

I could say Cantor has to much ego to compromise, and is to corrupt, which is my opinion. But I leave stating opinons as stone facts up to tea gaggers and their ilk. Ugh. Tea gaggers is my cutsey name calling, because they gag me with hyprocrisy.

The original submitter's reference to healthcare emanating from "secret" meetings is laughable. Where was this righteous indignation when VP Cheney conducted his energy policy meetings. They even ignored congressional subpoenas concerning this. And what about the secret arms for hostages deal making during Reagon's administration. I won't begin to even address the canard of the "healthcare secrecy" from the standpoint of putting forth the facts disproving such ridiculous rumor-mongering, but suffice to say it was all done with full knowledge and awareness of all leaders.

Darla - see my post #1.34 above. Cantor is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by Grover Norquist and his front organization, Americans for Tax Reform.

You can see the other, more detailed post in which I presented considerable more detail by clicking on the link I provided. And if you REALLY want to know what's behind the Tea Party movement and the ultra-conservative tide, including the devious way Norquist has bought off Capitol Hill, read Thomas Frank, The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Ruined Government, Enriched Themselves, and Beggared the Nation, Metropolitan Books, New York, Holt Paperbacks Edition 2009, ISBN 0-8050-9090-8.

Thanks, John A. For pointing out the "pink lady technique" and for sympathizing. it is much appreciated.

I kind of knew what was going on. But I couldn't help myself. Sometimes, exposing these lies is just too tempting.

The President always ends the meetings. That’s what all presidents do. Also, who is called “No Drama Obama,” and who keeps taking their ball and going home? Conservatives can be so lame.

The FACTS: Paul Ryan’s plan would require the debt ceiling to be raised, would add 6 trillion to the debt, and would privatize Medicare and still not balance the budget. So we can forget that.

Moving on, the Dems agreed to as much as 2 trillion in spending cuts when Cantor threw his first hissy fit, because the Dems began making suggestions like this:

With the Tax Reform Act of 1986, Reagan and Congress sought to broaden the tax base, eliminate many deductions, and reduce rates. In 1983, Democrats Bill Bradley and Dick Gephardt had offered a proposal to clean up/broaden the tax base; in 1984 Reagan had the Treasury Department produce its own plan. The eventual bipartisan 1986 act aimed to be revenue-neutral: while it reduced the top marginal rate, it also partially "cleaned up" the tax base by curbing tax loopholes, preferences, and exceptions, thus raising the effective tax on activities previously specially favored by the code.

Then President Obama countered Eric’s temper tantrum by suggesting a Big Deal to reduce the debt by 4 trillion, including savings from trust funds. The details were something congress would have to work out, as congress should because it is congress’s job. But to do this, Republicans would have to work toward a 3 to 1 spending to revenue compromise.

The American people know who is saying NO, and the American people know it is the same Party that created the majority of the debt in the first place.

President Obama also is correct to demand a long-term solution instead of piece-meal dragged out uncertainty, that would damage our credit as well as economic recovery. If the GOP/TP doesn’t get on board, the Dems will propose spending cuts on their own and take full credit for the work—as they should.

David Brooks wrote: If the debt ceil­ing talks fail, inde­pen­dent vot­ers will see that Democ­rats were will­ing to com­pro­mise but Repub­li­cans were not. If respon­si­ble Repub­li­cans don’t take con­trol, inde­pen­dents will con­clude that Repub­li­can fanati­cism caused this default. They will con­clude that Repub­li­cans are not fit to govern.

And they will be right.

I sit here and read all these arguments back and forth. President Obama ridiculed Paul Ryans plan in a press conference and said his plan was better. Yet no plan on paper. Why? No budget fron Reid and the Senate. Why? President Obama did present a budget for this year and it was defeated 97-0. Obviously nobody liked his plan. Now on the debt ceiling discussions President Obama has said anywhere from 3 to 4 trillion in spending cuts. I know personally that I would like to see that in writing before I would vote to increase. President Obama said everything was on the table except Obamacare, medicare.

I read that the gov't takes in about 203 billion per month and spends 362 billion a month for a -159 billion. If they can find 160 billion in spending cuts then you would have a surplus and no tax increase. Sounds logical to me.

I also find it funny that all the democrats/liberals demonize corporations and rich people yet somehow run to them for campaign donations. Sounds hypocritical to me.

I also think it is funny that democrats always want tax increases, is that because the majority of democrats don't pay them, so it doesn't affect them.

All you liberal posters seem to believe that Cantor is in Norquists back pocket, I guess the same can be said of President Obama since Andy Stern (SEIU) seems to spend a lot of time at the White House.

Conservatives you should give the president a break from leaving the meeting early yesterday. I guess he had to get back to the White House for the Wednesday nite party.

Also the Senate pass a pseudo unbinding tax bill the other day that raised this mark to $1,000,000. SO only those people that have a taxable income of over ONE MILLION DOLLARS would see any tax increase. Every GOP/TP voted NO and the bill failed with 51 Yea and 49 Nay. Minority vote wins again.

USNDR since the republicans only have 40 votes I guess 9 democrats didn't like the bill either. At least be honest and admit that.

Looks like Cantor is now the spokesman for Grover Norquist.

Norquist is the guy who has 95% of Republican congressional signatures tucked away in a vault. They all signed on with him to refuse to vote for any kind of tax reform. The 3 Republican leaders are terrified right now as they are trapped.

Norquist has their signatures and he is watching. The world is also watching Cantor, Boehner and McConnell to see if they will risk the fiscal life and death of our global economy.

I guess Cantor never Googled "Grover Norquist Islam." Makes you wonder whose side Norquist is on? All those righty websites can't be wrong can they?

I guess if Cantor is the spokesman for Norquist, then Obama is the spokesman for Karl Marx.

JC,

Marx does not have orginal, signed Republican (95%) congressional signatures sitting in his vault, like Norquist does.

So Backhouse, your point is that a dead man can't collect signatures? OK, I agree.

Refuse to joke with you about the massive financial disaster that can sweep our world into a global depression if the debt ceiling is not raised. We pay leaders to govern, not to create catastrophes.

The debt ceiling has been raised without batting an eye, over 70 times in our history and 7 times under President Bush. Bush created the biggest deficit and debt in US history.

Marx is gone. The folks I know want to live today in a good world uncorrupted by Norquist afficianados.

I guess the President should take little Eric, who is the head of the American Brown Shirt Party out back to the wood shed.

Backhouse

Refuse to joke with you about the massive financial disaster that can sweep our world into a global depression if the debt ceiling is not raised. We pay leaders to govern, not to create catastrophes.

AH.... so kicking the can even further down the road... taking on even more debt (the root of our evil here) is going to do WHAT to solve this problem?

It does not take a leader to pass the buck, BackHouse. As Harry Truman said 'The buck stops here!"

Perhaps the current president should heed that advice.

And BTW... how can extending the debt limit impact our credit rating any way? It does nothing to change our debt to GDP ratio... NOTHING!

What is DOES DO is give the government a little headroom to continue deficit spending... increase borrowing... and push us even farther into the abyss! What is good about that?

Really, the folks I know don't want to pay more taxes. The folks I know want to live in a "Good World". One where you have the freedom to make a better life for yourself is you so choose. The freedom to make a worse life for yourself if you choose. The freedom to keep what you have worked for and earned.

It was Obama that said he did not want to keep the income he had earned. He wants to give it to people that don't earn an income. Any chance that he is just trying to get those people to vote for him? If he did not want to keep that money, he can easily give it to charities that support the disadvantaged. Has he chosen to do that? I think that a well selected charity organization can do a lot better job of re-distributing wealth than the government can.

The "signatures" that you refer to are metaphorical. And, yes, the country has elected officials that stood on a platform of not increasing taxes. It so happens that among Norquist's beliefs is that the American people should not be subject to tax increases. He also believes in Islam as the religion of peace. I haven't seen any Congressional Republicans converting to Islam because they are required to follow Norquist. Having them live up to what they promised to their constituents is a good thing, whether you agree with the promise or not.

Just be honest Spanky, if you can, you do what you do best, you are a lawyer after all, or at least you call yourself one.

By the way Backhouse,

You do realize that Norquist is the President of Americans for Tax Reform. So your statement that Republicans have pledged to him that they will refuse to vote for any tax reform is kinda nonsensical. I assume you meant that he does not want higher taxes.

WTH is Frank talking about?

As usual... he can't spar with Spanky so he takes a personal jab by insinuating that Spanky is dishonest?

THAT is pathetic! (Come on Frank... answer Spanky's questions... show us what you are made of there old boy!)

:-P LOL!!!!!!

FrankH: JAS1, Spanky, a guy named bob-numbers and a couple of others only post here to annoy and disrupt. It's their version of sticking pins in voodoo dolls.

Frank, still waiting. Can you point us all to the document that describes the details of Obama's and the Democrats cuts to the budget, reform of the entitlements, and taxes they want to raise. Just looking for the details on Obama's suggested $4T in budget cuts.

Looking forward to your response, and again, many thanks!

JC,

You can call an outfit 'for' anything you want. You can call it for 'American Prosperity" when it is really about prosperity only for the very, very few.

It has been widely reported on. The fact is almost ALL Republican congressionals legally signed over to Grover Norquist ~ never to do any kind tax reform of any kind. And now they are trapped. This is why Republican leaders keep saying "any deal that includes taxes can't pass the house'. So now we know why.

I know it's disappointing for Republicans to face up to the fact that their elected leaders have actually done that. They're signed on to a lot more things like Norquist. Another outfit they're tied to is ALEC that writes corporate legislation and teaches congressionals how to push for it. Koch does conferences for the same reason, and had one just recently.

Those ties are not in the interests of the American people and these 3 Republican leaders know it.

Seems a perfect fit for you. lol

Yeah - good thing we got Obama in charge of the whole circus, cause he is all about leading, not attention, right AnaB?

Guess that whole "the buck stops here" / Obama is the boss concept is lost on you. In your world the republicans are in control and charge, eh? So why bother trying to get Obama re-elected?

Looks like the Minnesota union hack Governor finally reconsidered the Republican proposal and agreed to it. Unions have had their way with the states for years now. As we've seen in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio that all now ends. The taxpayers are finally be represented and the unions are being exposed for the parasites they are.

Source: http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/politics/mn-shutdown-dayton-agrees-republican-budget-july-14-2011

What do Minnesota taxpayers get? $1.4 billion in budget cuts with no service cuts, i.e., ore money in their pocket.

Check back with us after the Wis. recall elections JoAnna. I've got a big ole bowl of Crow here for you.

Republicans shouldn't be trying to "strong arm" the President of the United States because they should have known they would fail, actually no matter who was POTUS.

You don't try to bully the President of the United States, and anyone who tries that tactic deserves to lose. I think it's pretty much common knowledge on this board that I didn't care for GWB at all, but when it comes something like bullying even Bush, well that means you're trying to bully the United States and we are pretty tough cookies.

The Republcians were trying to force the POTUS to repeal heath care, to turn over our Social Security money, and a whole mixed bag of things the majority of the American People DO NOT support.

I am all too happy with the way President Obama has handled this whole mess which, again, was made by pushy, wrongheaded Republicans who haven't got anything right in the past 10 years at least.

The President was nice to them, he invited them to the White House to negotiate, he listened to their wish list, and they just went to damn far. Now, they need to give the POTUS a clean bill that ONLY contains what's necessry to increase the debt limit. Period.

AITM: Check back with us after the Wis. recall elections JoAnna.

Will do. But do tell, what are you going to do after that fails? Claim another moral victory?

AITM:Check back with us after the Wis. recall elections JoAnna

How is that thought process working out in Minnesota there AITM? Seems Governor Dayton agreed to accept the Republicans budget to open up his government again.

ST. PAUL, Minn. (FOX 9) - Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton sent a letter Thursday to House Speaker Kurt Zellers and Senate Majority Leader Amy Koch, saying he "reluctantly" agrees to accept the Republican budget proposal from June 30 if it will end the government shutdown

You may not like, it but reality is starting to set in with some of these folks.

Hey AITM it has hit my home state too.

Seems here in Michigan, the state has decided that giving lifetime (yes that is correct lifetime) welfare checks is not such a good idea. Gonna limit it to 4 years. They backed off a bit in 2007 from the lifetime thing, but it took getting rid of Jennifer Granholm to get this latest legislation enacted.

See, the states, are and always will be the backstop against Federal lunacy. The dominoes are beginning to fall, my friend.

I guess it is no surprise why my state is in such deep mud, eh?

Now if we could just get the folks in Detroit to stop electing crooks, we might be on the path to recovery....

I'll have the same kool-aid American Girl has...thanks.

Perhaps you should pay attention to actual news...not just FoxNoise talking points!

Obama offered them 4 trillion in cuts and trivial tax/revenue increases and the GOP/TP choked.

Deal of the century and they walked.

Pres Obama seems, once again, to be the only resonable, responsable adult in the room.

The rest spineless, selfish and childish!

actually whats amazing as you put it is how much you display your stupidity........at least have a clue when your lips move dude other than to just run your mouth with the off the wall comments that come out of it would ya ? Cant believe that what is supposed to be a grown adult would be as goofy as you appear to be

Obama offered nothing but empty promises. It's all he's given in the past, the present, and you guessed it the future.

One and done!

Put a budget together? The issue is the debt limit. Republicans have been trying to toss everything on top of that one issue and they failed, which they rightly should have.

I listened to the Tea Baggers and Republcians complain over HCR being "shoved down their throats" but what I see here is, that is the Republicans' tactic, and the majority of the American People are NOT on that side of the fence.

Republicans haven't accomplished ANYTHING in the past 3 years, which means Republicans only have George W. Bush's record to run on and we all know what the American People think about that.

Republicans have squandered away precious time, but what's so good about it is, once again, it's the Republican failures that again will get President Obama elected.

Obama/Biden 2012! Yaaaaaaaaaahoooooooooooooooo!

Rob in MA -

hey - republicans do YOUR jobs and put a budget together that gets passed - It's up to the House to originate all spending bills.....the Senate May propose but it still has to get passed by the house and President.

And there it is - American Girl hit the nail on the head as to why libbies are clueless.

She fails to see a correlation between a budget and debt limit talks. That is staggeringly ignorant.

God I hope for her sake American Girl is 13 years old. Debt, deficits and budgets. All totally separate and unrelated.

Only in Libbie-land.

Paul - the republican house did put a budget up and nearly all of them voted for it. Remember the democrat response? no counter proposal just TV ads with paul ryan throwing grandma off a cliff.

and the republicans are the party of no??

Spanky, why all the hatred? Ignorant?

What makes you the judge?

What special talents.... oh never mind.... I'm sure you're convinced that you have many.

TO: Spanky- who wrote:

"And there it is - American Girl ... fails to see a correlation between a budget and debt limit talks..."

^^^^^^^^^^^

What I DO see is that this is the first time in the history of the United States where ANYONE from either party is ATTEMPTING to create some "correlation" to anything.

In all of the history of the United States, nothing has ever been tied to raising the debt limit, until these phoney side-show Tea Bagging Republicans try to put the President of the United States in a position that no other President in the history of this country would have ever accepted, and I'm thrilled that President Obama isn't accepting it either.

I am happy that the President drew the proverbial line and has basically put his foot down on these schenanigans.

Even China is sick of Republican bull crap and are speaking out. Republicans need to quit making fools out of themselves.

Frank...

Get out your Webster's Dictionary and look up the definition of IGNORANT.

Then lookup the definition of STUPID.

There is a difference. And being ignorant can be fixed so there is hope for American Girl.

You on the other hand...

I checked the dictionary like you suggested and I swear, I was not surprised to find...

Ignorant.....someone who calls himself sickofthebickering and posts drivel on public forums

Stupid.....anyone who believes Spanky is really a lawyer

And there you have it...

The standard response from the loon that simply can't keep up...

When we expose you for what you are you ALWAYS take the beaten path of name calling, finger pointing, and personal attacks.

Way to take the high road their buddy! (what a man!)

Aww come on sotb, I thought you wanted to spar, but then again, you guys can only dish it out and then cry like the wimps you are when it's turned on you.

You see, Frank... There you go getting it all WRONG AGAIN!

Spanky is the one who invited you to spar... I merely had ringside seats.

BTW... You NEVER did answer Spanky's questions. (Spanky wins because like a 5th grade bully... you ran when a REAL challenge presented itself. Golly! you are just like Obama!)

I agree but it is not on the republicans side.

you have some facts wrong pelosi is the cry baby and Boehner is Speaker of the House. Cantor like Pelosi is the minority : So just like her both parties are entitled to their views. Sorry, I just hope we are not soon both on welfare and food stamps, and eating off of Obama kitchen floor by eating the scrapes after he invites his friends over for a lavish dinner. Then maybe take them all on Air Force One with all the Democrats and celebrate on doing nothing in the last 4 years, but to go on vacations to Europe and Hawaii, while 14 million Americans are out of work, families living in their car's, and eating trash out of a dumpster from a restaurant in back. Berry and Palin 2012 Yahooooooooooooooooo

Silly me---I thought for once the Republicans might do what was best for the country, not what was best for their re-election.

Obama leaves the room with a tantrum and Cantor needs a bib?

seems you are a Cantor junkie tnt......only person in that room that says Obama had a tantrum is Cantor himself and he cant even get along with his own party so i guess in your peabrain mind what he speaks is the truth huh ??? Shows what you stand for & its obvious to all thats anything but impressive

Hey Ted, got any details on what cuts make up that $3T? I can't find the specifics.

What difference does it make cuts are cuts, it is like those chicken nuggets you really don't want the details you just accept that it is chicken.

Rob, the POTUS is not required to "give" anything to have the debt ceiling raised.

I suppose Republicans got the idea of trying to "bargain" for everything from their days of "pork barrel spending" when they tied their "up or down" vote to whether or not they were able to get "paid" for it.

You don't play that game with the President of the United States unless you have something reasonable to offer in exchange perhaps, but raising the debt ceiling in the end is non-negotiable because it is already REQUIRED to be done by virtue of the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution.

Republicans cannot "not" do it without such a failure to "act" on their part being an outright abject failure on their part to do their constitutional duty.

Rob my wife works at the ssa and the standard response to any debt ceiling questions is "We're sorry but we don't know." Straight from the top

pukey05 (I can see how you like cute names)

Somebody started 2 wars and gave tax breaks to the richest. I think Republicans voted for both of those. Somehow in your twisted thinking it is all the Democrats debt.

I know you don't care about America and with your really really hope we default is just showing your scripted fauxrage without a clue what will really happen.

What are you hoping that another deeper recession happens? How bad does it have to get for you to be happy? Do people have to die or just become homeless to make you happy? I am glad you are rich because the rich will suffer less.

Do you really think because your type shuts down the government it lowers the amount we owe. The money is already spent (think two wars) and now increasing the debt ceiling just says we are going to pay our bills. I don't hear you complaining about Republican debt just President Obamas debt like they are two different things.

Wisconsin has found out that Republicans are not your friends. Are you smart enough to figure that out?

OBAMA 2012 - PROUD NOT TO BE REPUBLICAN

Clinton had a surplus because a conservative republican congress forced him to submit a balanced budget. He did so kicking and screaming all the way and then when it was all said and done took credit for it. Gotta love politics.

Bull crap. President Bill Clinton not only was the smartest person in the room, but he also had a TEAM of Nobel Prize Winning Economists who were probably the only ones who knew how to prepare such a document.

Republicans refuse to consult such experts because the want to continue to "pretend" they're unwitting "losing" money that they're really stealing.

Republicans thinking they can "force" any President of the United States into doing something is wrong and its a mistake to think so.

We may be getting ready to see the effect of trying to "force" a POTUS to do something pretty soon.

Zap Rowsdower

Didn't Clinton have a surplus. get his A$$ in there and show everyone how it's done.

You would also need Newt Gingrich, they were both credited for the surplus.

Bill Clinton also had an economy benefiting and robustly growing as a result of the information technology/digital revolution.

Not an economy limping along with sub-2% growth and 9.2% unemployment as a result of the incompetence of the Obama economic team...

Most of whom, by the way, have departed the scene of the crime.

I find it interesting that Presidents skipped from Clinton to President Obama.

Remind me what was it that happened between the two presidents. Oh, thats right you left out Bush and the state of the country that President Obama inherited. Wars and massive tax cuts have nothing to do with where we are now.

Republicans are masters of selective memory.

you have some facts wrong pelosi is the cry baby and Boehner is Speaker of the House. Cantor like Pelosi is the minority : So just like her both parties are entitled to their views. Sorry, I just hope we are not soon both on welfare and food stamps, and eating off of Obama kitchen floor by eating the scrapes after he invites his friends over for a lavish dinner. Then maybe take them all on Air Force One with all the Democrats and celebrate on doing nothing in the last 4 years, but to go on vacations to Europe and Hawaii, while 14 million Americans are out of work, families living in their car's, and eating trash out of a dumpster from a restaurant in back. American Girl what professor you have in college? Professor Soros

You would also need the old tax rates under Clinton and similar employment numbers to balance the budget and reproduce the surplus.

Tom, isn't Harry Reid the Senate Majority Leader? and isn't Mitch McConnell the Senate Minority Leader?

And crybaby Boehner is Speaker of the House, and Nancy Pelosi is the House Minority Leader.

Eric Cantor, I think, is the Majority Whip in the House, which is why Reid probably (and rightfully) said Cantor shouldn't be there.

On the other hand, I believe the reason McConnell and crybaby Boehner did include Cantor because neither is able to get Cantor to listen to reason and without Cantor, they can't get enough votes in the House.

American Girl Perhaps President Obama's new moniker should be President O'Whiner considering his temper tantrum.

Well, that ought tell you that it's past time that the GOP stopped screwing up the economy.

you have some facts wrong pelosi is the cry baby and Boehner is Speaker of the House. Cantor like Pelosi is the minority : So just like her both parties are entitled to their views. Sorry, I just hope we are not soon both on welfare and food stamps, and eating off of Obama kitchen floor by eating the scrapes after he invites his friends over for a lavish dinner. Then maybe take them all on Air Force One with all the Democrats and celebrate on doing nothing in the last 4 years, but to go on vacations to Europe and Hawaii, while 14 million Americans are out of work, families living in their car's, and eating trash out of a dumpster from a restaurant in back. Great come back American Girl

Yep, just what we need, the GOP doing more "stupid stuff".

Isn't it bad enough that they are the fools that got us into this mess, and you have wackos that are still following the same mistakes right off the cliff.

How embarrassing is it that the Chinese issued a statement advising us to take care of our debt issues?Could they just once put their country first?

Cantor is not stupid. He knows exactly what he is doing. He will gladly drive the American economy into ruin to get Obama out of the White House. He does not care what happens to the average American. He only cares about what he wants and that is Obama gone.

You have some facts wrong pelosi is the cry baby and Boehner is Speaker of the House. Cantor like Pelosi is the minority : So just like her both parties are entitled to their views. Sorry, I just hope we are not soon both on welfare and food stamps, and eating off of Obama kitchen floor by eating the scrapes after he invites his friends over for a lavish dinner. Then maybe take them all on Air Force One with all the Democrats and celebrate on doing nothing in the last 4 years, but to go on vacations to Europe and Hawaii, while 14 million Americans are out of work, families living in their car's, and eating trash out of a dumpster from a restaurant in back.

to bad obama doesn't understand the term "good faith". His open mike comments about the right, constant barrage of snide smiles (AKA body language), attacks on the right, and constant campaigning since the Nov 2010 election smacks of someone who believes that rhetoric is all that is required of a potus.

Seems like what goes around, comes around.

dont 4get america's most famous quitter >>>Da dipstick with lipstick !!!

you have some facts wrong pelosi is the cry baby and Boehner is Speaker of the House. Cantor like Pelosi is the minority : So just like her both parties are entitled to their views. Sorry, I just hope we are not soon both on welfare and food stamps, and eating off of Obama kitchen floor by eating the scrapes after he invites his friends over for a lavish dinner. Then maybe take them all on Air Force One with all the Democrats and celebrate on doing nothing in the last 4 years, but to go on vacations to Europe and Hawaii, while 14 million Americans are out of work, families living in their car's, and eating trash out of a dumpster from a restaurant in back. Right Grace 1st I' ll take that to the bank.