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Could a deal on the debt ceiling be both within reach and far away? When it comes to the ways of Washington, it’s always possible to see two outcomes at the same time. Just look at the legislative scheme Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell came up with Tuesday, which would allow the president to raise the debt ceiling by some $2.4 trillion in three installments through 2012 and require Congress to pass a resolution of disapproval to stop it – an attempt to both appease the markets and put the burden of raising the debt limit solely on the president’s shoulders.
So where are we? As Vin Scully used to say on the Saturday baseball “Game of the Week” on NBC, “pull up a chair” and spend a few minutes digesting what I think I know after conversations with folks on all sides of the talks.
The president and Speaker John Boehner are rhetorically close, but remain far away on the details. My colleague Luke Russert used an apt analogy with me when it comes to these talks: it’s like the Israelis and the Palestinians. I’d argue it’s like the Israelis and the Palestinians about 10 years ago. What do I mean? Then, the leaders of the two factions, Ariel Sharon and Yasser Arafat, truly wanted a deal, but their rank-and-file (while claiming publicly that they agreed) didn’t truly trust the other side to follow through with the promises the leaders were making to each other.
To boil this debt ceiling impasse down to the core issue: Neither the president nor the House Republican leadership is truly ready to put agreement down on paper. For the president, the hesitancy is about giving a promise of real entitlement reform. For Republicans it's reistance to make a pledge that part of tax reform could mean the expiration of the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans (the Republicans).
In fact, what upsets many Republicans is that the president isn’t ready to make a firm commitment on paper (even behind closed doors) that he would agree and push for, say, means testing for Medicare or slowly raising the age on Social Security unless he gets a firm promise on those Bush tax cuts (it’s how the White House thinks they might be able to sell this to some Democrats). And the House Republicans, Boehner in particular, aren’t going to make that promise on taxes unless somehow the president gives the GOP conference (which has been battered over the Rep. Paul Ryan's Medicare plan” caucus) some real political cover on entitlements.
In a session with a small group of reporters, Speaker Boehner compared the president’s entitlement reform offers on Social Security and Medicare to JELL-O; there are days when it seems like it's been in the freezer and looks solid, and there are times -- like now -- where it’s a tad liquidy and hard to, well, pin down.
The White House feels plenty burned on taxes so they’d argue that’s why they are being cagey with their best negotiating card.
The leaders of both parties are frantically trying to figure out how to come up with anything that can get through the House when it comes to the debt ceiling. Right now, they don’t have a path. And while many of the new rank-and-filers are like Illinois freshmen Republican Joe Walsh and don’t believe there’s actual serious consequences to not raising the debt ceiling, Speaker Boehner does understand it. As he said today when asked how he thinks the markets will react if there’s no deal by August 2: “Nobody wants to go there, because nobody knows what’s going to happen. It’s a crapshoot.”
So what could a deal look like? While Boehner and Obama are, essentially, the lone voices in the room still advocating for the “grand bargain” (both believe it’ll be easier to pass, and they may have a point), the rest of the group meeting daily with the president is busy coming up with a lot of contingency plans.
- There’s the somewhat maligned but viable McConnell “Hail Mary punt” which would only deny the president’s request for a debt ceiling raise if veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress disapprove of the request.
- There are the remnants of the cuts the members of the so-called Biden group came up with (House Majority Leader Eric Cantor is among the advocates of this route).
- Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is pushing the idea of creating a binding Congressional commission to handle either tax reform, Social Security reform, or both (modeled a little after the Social Security reform commission of the ‘80s and a little bit from the military base closing commission in the early ‘90s). The commission recommendations would not be subject to any alterations by either Congressional chamber and instead would only be subject to an up or down vote.
One Democratic leadership insider sees pieces of all of these contingency plans making up a deal that could be small at first but could turn into the “grand bargain.” For instance, the end game could look something like this.
- Some significant group of cuts from the Biden group (think $700-800 billion) in order to get a 6-month raise in the ceiling.
- Also included would be the binding Reid commissions (or maybe two seperate binding commissions) made up only of members of Congress to tackle tax reform and entitlement reform. They’d have, say, three months to get tax reform done and six months to get the entitlement reform done. Whatever they agreed to, would be subject to the up or down vote and if tax reform got enacted then it would be linked to another large chunk of cuts (the rest of the Biden agreed to cuts and then some).
- As a failsafe, the McConnell “disapproval” concept on the debt ceiling would also be part of the deal for the next three debt ceiling increases asked for by the president in order to avoid this problem until the summer or even fall of 2013 if both tax reform and entitlement reform failed.
To be clear, the above plan is not being considered right now. It’s more of an example of how convoluted the eventual roadmap to a deal is going to be. It’s the “trust-but-verify-a-million-times” approach, to borrow a Reagan phrase from the Cold War. Obama and Boehner do trust each other, and while the path forward right now is unclear, one Republican familiar with the talks said of the president and the GOP: “We’re in a spot where we need to be. It’s not a bad place for us to be.” What does he mean? An uncomfortable spot for both parties. The president painted the GOP into a corner, hence the McConnell plan, but it was a short term political process victory, not one that you can brag about to the American people.
The president desperately wants the big deal. How much so? When Boehner informed the president last Saturday night that he had to publicly pull out of the “grand bargain” talks, the conversation took more than 30 minutes to wrap up. While neither side has given reporters the details of that conversation, draw your own conclusions as to why a call like that, initiated by Boehner to essentially “break up” from the grand bargain talks, took more than 30 minutes to conclude. The president needs a real deal as much if not more than congressional Republicans.
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Someone remind Representative Cantor and Senator McConnell that the bipartisan debt commission, American businesses, and the credit agencies have said America needs $4 trillion in cuts.
Someone remind Representative Cantor and Senator McConnell that they spent the last 2 years saying American businesses need certainty. McConnell has said hundreds of times that if Washington has to vote on something every few months, it kills jobs. McConnell needs to stop introducing proposals that he himself has called job killing.
Lastly, someone remind Representative Cantor and Senator McConnell that there position stands opposed to Speaker Boehner and President Obama.
Remind all those opposed to Speaker Boehner and President Obama what Seal Team Six said before their mission to take out Osama Bin Laden....
"For God and Country"
The $4 trillion is needed for all Americans. Get it done or be ready to hear that you are ignoring the needs of the American people.
It has to really drive these GOP/TP guys nuts when Obama out smarts them again. Its like shooting fish in a barrel. Wow i am blown away with everything thats being reported today. I've said it before and i'll say it again "Obama is the smartest man in the room and the repubs just cant except that fact". Bohner is just waiting for Cantor to finally take over, which he soon will do but is he any smarter then the guy he just stabbed in the back? McConnel is lost and in way over his head. This political theater is just wonderful i almost wish they would take the six month deal so we can all be reminded again as to just how stupid these people really are. Well let me finish by saying there is only one person who can beat Obama in 2012 and that is Hillery Clinton, oops shes a dem, sorry about that.
sfcret--Okay that does it. You can spout off your talking points here, but please don't mess with Gingerbread Mamma. I guess you found that out already though. Kind of stings don't it ?
The President agreed to a 4 trillion dollar program. This was funded something like 85% through spending cuts, including medicare and social security and only 15% by tax cuts (mostly closing tax loopholes for corporations).
You'd think this would be a wet dream for the Republicans. A perfect deal. Huge, huge, HUGE sweeping cuts in social programs, trillions knocked off the national debt, and only minor increases in taxes for a minority of the population.
But it's just not good enough for them. 85-15 isn't a good enough deal. They want 100-0. No compramise. No meeting halfway, or even a few steps away. Gotta bow to their wishes in every respect or they will lock down the entire government, holding the nation hostage.
Honestly, at this point, I can feel Obama's frustration. The offer he made already paints him as a Republican puppet, willing to betray his base to appease them.
What more can he give?
A quick recap of this scenario over the USA's debt ceilling that needs to be raised. The President put a bid of 4 trillion on the table. To include the big 3 (Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security) yet the repubs still don't want to budge. No compromise and No deals on anything. They are standing fast on the idea that entitlement cuts coming from the middle and lower classes. Without any type of revenue coming in will satisfy their base and allow them to vote for the raising the debt ceilling. Or so logic would dictate, yet sadly this or any type of appeasement to this neo-repub-tea party group simply won't do. The cup of compromise can never quench their thirst and their bully tactics on the GOP need to be challenged. It kind of reminds me of Jason coming home to roost. And only the far-right are allowed to exist while everybody else gets masacred. But this is what the American people wanted in 2010, hmn... I think that some serious buyers remorse is now in effect, just ask the people of Wisconsin.
But I'll say now as if said before, when the big-boys from WallStreet call and tell the GOPers that their filthy bribe money will be short because they had to pay higher interest rates. These shameless flunkies of big oil, corporations, insurance companies and hedge fund managers will make a 180 degree turn and raised the debt ceilling without a problem like they've done in every administration prior to this one. On that you can rely.
Now you blogers of this bought and paid for republican party try and say different. And remember in 2012 we all will have a chance to vote. So vote for what's best for "All" Americans not just one certain party or group
If The Republicans Want To Save Their Political Ass Then They Must Make A Deal And Do It Very Soon!
no
A quick recap of this scenario over the USA's debt ceilling that needs to be raised. The President put a bid of 4 trillion on the table. To include the big 3 (Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security) yet the repubs still don't want to budge. No compromise and No deals on anything. They are standing fast on the idea that entitlement cuts coming from the middle and lower classes. Without any type of revenue coming in will satisfy their base and allow them to vote for the raising the debt ceilling. Or so logic would dictate, yet sadly this or any type of appeasement to this neo-repub-tea party group simply won't do. The cup of compromise can never quench their thirst and their bully tactics on the GOP need to be challenged. It kind of reminds me of Jason coming home to roost. And only the far-right are allowed to exist while everybody else gets masacred. But this is what the American people wanted in 2010, hmn... I think that some serious buyers remorse is now in effect, just ask the people of Wisconsin.
But I'll say now as if said before, when the big-boys from WallStreet call and tell the GOPers that their filthy bribe money will be short because they had to pay higher interest rates. These shameless flunkies of big oil, corporations, insurance companies and hedge fund managers will make a 180 degree turn and raised the debt ceilling without a problem like they've done in every administration prior to this one. On that you can rely.
Now you blogers of this bought and paid for republican party try and say different. And remember in 2012 we all will have a chance to vote. So vote for what's best for "All" Americans not just one certain party or group
Should it just continue because it has in the past? How does it make sense to borrow more money to pay the interest on debt run up by overspending and borrowing..do you really think anyone can borrow and spend their way out of debt? I wonder if you can offer three meaningful places where federal spending can be cut that wouldn't harm our national defense that could free-up wasted money to use toward the debt problem? Should the clandestine other government of czars have their pay withheld before the military or seniors? Has anyone the balls to challenge this President about their ligitimacy and legality in the first place? Are we going to continue to ignore that the prohibition of drugs empowers organized crime more than it has ever prevented drug abuse, as well as costing enormous tax revenue to enforce and litigate? Should the EPA really be allowed to heap such regulation on business that it is stifeling business and creating too many enforcemant expenses?
No
no
no
LMAO Lawrence puzzles Spanky ....... no talking points sent by your handlers yet??
As long as both Republicans and Democrats are in control of Congress and the White House, We will never see a well run Government again. This country is headed for an Economic collapse far worse than the Great Depression.
You can not have a fair tax system when the very rich and big corporations are given so many loop holes in the tax system that they pay no tax and in some cases get a refund to boot. That is why we need a tiered flat tax system that levels the playing Field and still has those who are wealthy still pay more than they have. The Republicans need to stop protecting these loop holes and allow a fair tax system for the country.
Like wise you can not continue to throw money at systems or Government agencies that fail to live up to their stated purpose. Nor can the Government continue to turn a blind eye to the corruption and outright fraud that drains billions from those in true need.
A national identification system for those who collect welfare and get Medicaid so those who are illegally getting more than one check per month can be caught . Having their photos and finger prints on a national data base system would bring this type of fraud to a halt. When they apply for Welfare and Medicaid they would be required to give their finger prints and have their photo taken.
As for Those scammers who drain Billions from medicare and medicaid any bill from a new business that is not on any previous database should have any payment withheld till it is verified that the services or prescriptions were given and that its not some fly by night operation. Nor should any payment be sent to a P.O. Box only to a physical address. Furthermore the owners of that operation should likewise have to submit to finger printing and photograph for a national database.
When you break these' negotiations' down, this is what is comes down to....
BOTH sides agree that debts/deficits need to be dealt with and the the debt ceiling needs to be raised.
REPUBLICANS think that all debts/deficits need to dealt with by cutting programs run by the government. They want to cut Medicare, Medicaid, SS, Education, EPA etc., etc.. Removal of the social safety nets that are used by millions across the country would be better for the economy?
OBAMA thinks that that the debts/deficits need be dealt with in a balanced approach: yes, "the big three" may need some reforms to extend solvency but the uber-wealthy (who have predominantly experienced recovery) should have to pay a little bit more toward the effort.
The public needs to have a discussion over this? Are people that stupid? You'd think that there would be public outcry for Boehner and Cantor to step down so someone else can serve the people and not their special interests.
Question: What do the TP, the GOP-TP, and Al Queda have in common?
Answer: They all want default.
Moral of the story: The GOP is delivering what Al Queda cannot.
Judge by actions, not words.
The current GOP and specifically the Tea Party share the same goal as Al Qaeda. Their methods may be different but the desired outcome is the same.
The GOP, GOP-TP, and Al Queda also want the Chinese to hold $3.5 trillion in US bad debt. If they are successful the Chinese will be, in a word, displeased.
Joe Scarborough better be careful. he needs to remember where he works. On Morning Joe he and pat toomey b&tchslapped Mika, Charles Blow, and the rest of the lefties on the debt ceiling and lack of budget proposals from the dems.
It was some of the funniest TV I've seen in a long time.
Oh and hey, what's with Obama - "Don't call my bluff"???
And people thought Bush was a MORON!
Mika talks down to most people and is an extremely condescending know-it-all. Just listen to her.
Listen to these people; they just go on and on as if they are the only people in the world. It is not only disgusting, it is downright offensive. There are those stubbornly pushing and aggressively supporting the Republicans’ complete irresponsibility. Hopefully their unchecked greed and arrogantly belligerent pursuit of their own interests has finally taken them too far ,,, to the point of now being clearly recognized and then totally alienating the public. Bush-Cheney proved beyond any doubt that the “trickle down” theory is a total fraud that only solicits political support and makes the wealthy wealthier. When the Republicans keep advocating that policy as being “job creating” they are literally lying.
The American people need to fire the Republican Party as that is the only way they will ever get the message. They constantly say “The American people want” this or that, to justify their actions and that is total “hogwash”. The only people they represent are Special Interests and the influential, powerful and extremely wealthy few, those who strongly support them and who literally “pull their strings”. They make it obvious they won’t ever change on their own and that then leaves it to the American people to get their attention by firing them ... they leave no other choice and the voters need to tell them that!
We have a disfunctional government. Regardless of party, too many in Congress are there to make a career, not serve the people. It is time to stop this non-sense that going to Washington is a career with retirement benefits and perks beyond belief. Term limits are needed more than ever. The most important thing to these guys is re-election and serving their fat egos. It doesn't come down to which party is better than the other. The American people are being played as fools. Wealthy liberals in Congress want to tell you what is good for you or how you should live. But don't live that way themselves. This is American, we should be free to make choices for oueselves and then live with the consquences. Lawyers are part of the problem. Both sides of the aisle have participated in over spending and making everything a political decision. Unfortunately the current President plays this game as well. Obama has made zero effort from day one in office to find commom ground and unite government and then he criticizes everyone when they don't work together. Poor leadership. I know, Obama says he does this, but his actions are quite different. Attacking free enterprise and growing government's role in our lives has resulted in continued high unemployment, a weak housing market and increased debt. We are not better off two and a half years into Obama's term in office. Regardless of who you want to blame for the problem in the first place. It is the current President's responsibility to implement solutions. What does Obama do? Continues to be part of the problem, not part of the solution. Blaming everyone and everything is not leadership.
What does this show us about our leader, well in his own words 2006
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
If anyone loses getting a check when they fail to do something it should be the jerks in Washington. Perhaps they should let us decide how much of the new budget they get.
"specific entitlement cuts", and "specific tax reform to increase revenues". No more vague offers, be specific. As an old time Democrat used to say "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen".
Let's see the president makes 400,000 plus several hundred thousand expense for misc, congress and senate makes 174,00 per year plus benefits and expenses and gratuitous extras, Obama just raised 80 mil for re-election and other candidates raise untold millions for same so I am having a hard time imagining that any one of them could ever understand how their indecision, mis-management, greed, stubbornness, greed, hidden motives, and lobby influence effects have on ordinary people. I am not sure they are qualified any longer to make decisions so important for the common man. I do not feel that they have ever or do ever or will ever feel the pain they inflict upon the people of America. IT is time that changed and we withhold things from them and let them lose a house or a debt or electricity or medication or not have food to eat,etc. Then maybe just maybe they will understand.
Give me a freaking break!
This whole controversy isn't about whether the debt ceiling needs to be raised or not.
Everyone, including Eric Cantor knows that it needs to be done, and it was done SEVEN different times when George W. Bush ran up all the debt that we're trying to pay off now.
No, this is another in the long line of the Republicans' efforts to defeat the President of the United States by any means possible - regardless of how much it hurts the American people.
Remember, after the 2008 election - and again after the 2010 election Mitch McConell and John Boehner told everyone that would listen that their number one priority through 2012 would be to make sure Barack Obama is a one-term President.
According to today's news, the bond market is already starting to look at down-grading the credit rating of the US government! Hello People! This issue is very real, and very serious!
The Republicans' jihad against the President is a far more serious threat to the stability of this country than Saddam Hussein and the Taliban ever were.
Not if under the continued bodyguard of lies streaming from Republican mouths about raising taxes on corporations and rich people is a job killer, coupled with their refusal to raise the debt limit cutting off $20 billion in monthly government checks to Senior Citizens, Disabled Veterans and the Unemployed in additional to terminating all their health care.
America better wake and realize that if the 58 million Senior Citizens who have paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire working lifes, wake up and find out their monthly check is not in the mailbox, or electronically deposited in their bank accounts, the Los Angeles Rodney King riots will look like a picnic party. Joining them in the streets will be 9.8 million Veterans who also paid into Social Security, risked their lives and were injured under the illusion , were protecting freedom and the national security of the nation.
So Congress knock off the B.S. and political posturing and get down to protecting your constituents interest, not corporate cretin's seeking to suck the money out of not only the government but the folks who foot its bills.
The Republican position for their sordid behavior and B.S. rhetoric is driven by one motivation, to further enrich corporations who contribute hundreds of millions annually to their campaigns and spend even more on sending lobbyists (mafia torpedoes), to the hallways, committee hearing rooms and Capitol Hill offices to remind them who owns their votes.
The deal won't be approved as described in the article- The President said that he wouldn't approve a temporary package to raise the spending cap so that can't happen.
"Grand Bargain' for whom? The American people loose from this either way. If it is approved to raise the cap, the young will pay their entire lives for the government spending their future incomes for today's decisions. If the cap doesn't go up our bond rating will be dropped- thus increasing the cost of our borrowing. Thus borrowing the huge gap between what we have and what we want will cost us much more- which leads to the younger generations paying their entire lives for our politician's decisions today. So we're damned or we're damned.
The ONLY way we can dig our way out of this mess is to actually cut spending across every aspect of the budget: Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, the Military, Education, etc. etc. Sorry, but I severely doubt that anyone can say that they were given a free upgrade to the Cadillac from the Focus because they thought it would be nicer to have on their limited budget. This country is the same way- we can't deliver on the promises made, continue to grow the size of government, and increase programs AND think that it'll all work out someday by doing nothing. It's time to accept our fate and make some hard decisions. Otherwise we'll end up defaulting (I think honestly this will happen someday) and we'll all loose much more than we have to loose today.
Well John Boehner, in the 2010 election cycle, you and Mitch McConnell made the decision to welcome the craziest of the crazies, the tea party clowns, into your tent. Now they’re stabbing you in the back and you can’t do anything about it. If a deal is not reached the economy will crash. Seniors may not get their Social Security, people will see their 401-K tank again, interest rates will increase, the unemployment lines will grow, and the vast majority of the American people will blame Republicans. If this happens, 2012 will be a bad year for Republicans. It will be so bad that 2008 look good by comparison. You made a deal with the devil and now it’s time to pay the price. You have nobody to blame except yourself. Remember, tea parties are for little girls and their make believe friends.
Nope, the people will blame the most visible character involved - the POTUS.