I call your bet of one Jesus and raise you a Baby Jesus.

FR this has nothing to do with politics so why highlight it?

Primarily it shouldn't have been highlighted because, I knew that comments like the one above would be plentiful (majority will probably come from liberals).

Feisty do you know so much about Pawlenty that you can judge the man and deem him hypocritical or false in his beliefs? I don't agree with his policies and politics but whatever happened to acceptance of a man's beliefs without ridiculing them?

I'll see your Baby Jesue, and raise you a Saint Reagan.

The constituiton says there shall be no religious test for public office, however, the conservative Evangelicals almost insist on a candidate "testifying" to get their vote. The irony is, this is precisily what Jesus warned against - making a big display of praying in public.

(Not to mention the whole "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of an needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" issue. Romney, I'm looking at you.)

I see T-Pawlenty is a man of his convictions. Started as a Catholic and ended up a Protestant. He listens to wife, Mary, and does what he is told. What a man!

I fold DBO, rake the pot, you win. Next time you should tell me there are wild cards!

Ron - Indiana - isn't it the same as with Bachmann?? 2006 campaign speech - on YouTube - remarked that the bible says women should be submissive to her husband. So her husband told her she should become a lawyer - she became a lawyer. Husband told her she should run for Congress - she ran for Congress.

The religion of a President should not be a consideration when voting for someone.

When a candidate puts their religion front and center, it just shows me they dont have much else to offerespecially to the general voting public.

I dont care what or who you pray to or if you practise a religion. Are you a decent honest person who will always do the right thing for the American people. That's what's important to me.

If people do not want religion in politics they should keep their mouths shut about it. They set themselves up for controversy. I have a belief too and it is everyone has a right to practice what religion they want but are not allowed to push their beliefs on anyone who do not follow them. These people need to stop trying to make everyone dance to their tune.

"You probably make people around you miserable too."

Yeah, Real Hope- she makes ME miserable. She keeps making all this popcorn, then forgets to give ME the old maids. Oh, and did I say how miserable it makes me when she gets to post FIRST all the time??

Boo-Hoo....poor me......Whaaaah....

Awww!

Thanks Buzzy Baby! Of course will I share the old maids with you, remember we once shared that infamous 'shake'? lol

Realhope:

Most people ignore your stupid comments on here, but when you start making fun of someone because of religious beliefs, It just proves what a Trashy, hateful. P.O.S you are.

Cry me a river. From what you say, I gather you have been anti-birther and opposed to all those who have accused President Obama of being a Muslim, or even that being a Muslim was necessarily bad -- like Herman Cain does.

If not, then we know exactly what you are.

When someone exploits their religious beliefs as part of a political campaign, then it becomes fair game. When the shoe was on the other foot, your side certainly thought it was fair game.

And calling someone a "P.O.S." is somehow NOT trashy and hateful? LoL

We shared that 'shake' with a cross-eyed possum, if I remember correctly. Or was it a squid....?

Yellowdog-Mark D

FR this has nothing to do with politics so why highlight it?

You're just wrong. It has EVERYTHING to do with Republican politics and the ultra-right GOP base to which Pawlenty is pandering.

Feisty do you know so much about Pawlenty that you can judge the man and deem him hypocritical or false in his beliefs? I don't agree with his policies and politics but whatever happened to acceptance of a man's beliefs without ridiculing them?

Pawlenty is a flip-flopper like Romney, except he's even more gutless than Romney He attacked Romney for "Obamney Care" from the comfort and safety of a Fox News studio, but when he went fact to face with Romney in the Republican debate, he weaseled out and just started attacking President Obama, who of course wasn't there to defend himself. Pawlenty is also cheer leading the shutdown of the Minnesota state government. That's enough right there to justify a negative opinion of the Pawlenty, no matter how hard he thumps on his Bible.

The real question is, does anyone care ?

Oh, does anyone know, have there been anymore clowns added to the GOTP car this week ? I know we have added Thad McCotter, but anyone else? I mean, come on, the number of candidates barely fills half a page.

"Real" I agree with you. Fiest is nothing more than a hate mongering blue. Anything non blue is ugly and needs to be hated. Some day maybe she will open her eyes to reality and see the left is just as corrupt as the right.

Independents for a free america, free from political corruption.

Independents for the repeal of the great Americam liar and his health care mess. The middle class can not afford it.............................

Ursula - so what you are saying is that Jimmy Carter wanted to control the most intimate details of people's lives? He was a southern baptist and was no slouch in his faith.

Maybe what you are really saying is... if you are a republican christian, you want to control the most intimate details of people's lives, eh?

How about a little truth, or is that beneath you?

No, Brian, what I'm saying is that "conservatism" has very different meanings when it comes to religion and politics and the two should not be mixed. Nevertheless, the GOP prides itself in doing just that!

Jimmy Carter was a man of faith but he did not demand that others swear an oath to his religion. There are many democrats who are as religious as republicans. The difference is democrats believe that, as established by the Constitution, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". In other words, religion is not a requirement and one's religion or lack of religion is no one else's business. Conservatives demand their politicians be religious and prefer them, these days, to be evangelical Christians.

Ursula - Hmmm. So liberalism's meaning about religion and politics is void? Considering that Jimmy Carter was a liberal... religious... and expressed his faith... makes him... er... better by your standards, or worse? You aren't addressing this point.

Maybe if you defined your interpretation of what it means to be a religious conservative. I'm quite interested in what you have to say about it and I'm sure a lot of other people are too. Please, be as specific as possible.

Jimmy Carter lived his faith. He didn't beat people over the head with it. And he was (and still is) criticized for it. His critics said he was too soft, that he was naive. But it is exactly this part of Carter that has made him so sought after as a mediator and statesman in his post-Presidency.

Carter's was the true practice of religion. The current self-serving, pledge-signing, self-righteous religion so prevalent from the right, not so much.

How so many conservatives can claim to be religious, to support the teachings of christianity and yet pursue such insulated, polarized, exclusionist ideology, I cannot understand.

Jody - so what? How does that effect you as a liberal? I don't recall any conservative president tell you what church to go to. I never recall any conservative candidate ever say, that you must follow his religion. Hasn't happened, nor will it. So Jody, I really don't know what your complaint is all about.

Most people have a belief system but who is any political leader especially in the US saying that their religion should take presidence over another. This country was made great by given the right to worship as they please, unless it broke the laws of the land. Leaders who feel they need to dictate what we do in our bedrooms or with who we marry are doing a disservice to our country. We have an obligation to keep the rights of others as well as the rights that we like or we will have a country that is like the ones our forefathers fled from.

Felden, I don't fault Jimmy Carter's religion for his lack of decision making. That was a character flaw he had. The man couldn't make a decision if it were made for him. I respect his faith... I don't respect his decisions. Just because a person has faith, doesn't automatically make him a good leader. It goes for republicans as it does with democrats. This is why I don't understand the attack dog mentality of the liberals when a conservative politician mentions his faith. You guys said NOTHING about the fact that Obama went to a Black Liberation Theology church for 20 years but you jump all over a conservative that whispers anything about their faith. Interesting to say the least.

I get it Barb... This is all about that one segment of society... the one that occupies .05% of the population... the vocal and activist gay movement.

Interesting how the liberals place gays at the head of the table when it comes to their political whims. Liberals will completely reject the religion of someone because they know that the religion, and not the person, says what's right or wrong. Maybe liberals just don't believe in right and wrong... they much prefer left over right.

"....they much prefer left over right."

Well, I have one on the right that is a little larger than the one on the left, but geez- I prefer them both equally most days.

Brianb: "Interesting how the liberals place gays at the head of the table when it comes to their political whims".

I just re-read Barb's post, and she says nothing of the kind.

But even if she had, I find it interesting that you would use the phrase "head of the table", though. Reminds me of a woman I used to work with who I once invited to join my extended family for Thanksgiving dinner at the restaurant my gay step-brother and his partner own together. She hemmed and hawed and finally admitted that she would be "uncomfortable" eating dinner with them, even after I assured her repeatedly that they would no doubt refrain from having sexual relations in the middle of the mashed potatoes or pumpkin pie. Well, her loss - it was one of my best Thanksgivings ever. And since there were about 25 or 30 of us there, ranging in age from 2 months to 80+years, no one really sat at the "head" of the table. It was an evening of family, good food, good conversations, and counting our blessings that we could come from all over the country - the world, in fact - to be together.

How dare you tell Barb - or me - or anyone else - that liberals don't believe in right and wrong?

Brianb, I think everyone on this board knows what a religious conservative is. They are people who follow a strict lifestyle derived from religious teachings - whether from the Bible, Book of Mormon, Talmud, or Koran. This religious choice governs numerous aspects of their everyday lives, including what to wear, what to eat or drink, who to socialize with, and what to think (at least from a scientific perspective). I don't object to anyone choosing this lifestyle for themselves - politician or otherwise.

But when those conservative religious ideals enter into politics, I do object because they begin to encroach on my lawful freedoms - such as my right to privacy or protecting the environment.

DBO - It's good to see humor on these boards.... lately there's been more than normal. It's appreciated.

Joanne in PA, I could say I dare many people on these boards for telling me how to think. When Barb mentioned the bedroom, and conservatives telling them what they can or can't do there, she was alluding to only one thing. From where I stand, no conservative or liberal has told anyone what they can or can't do in their bedrooms. It hasn't happened, nor will it. It appears as though the fear mongering from the left extends to a potential candidate that expresses his religious views. It's as rediculous as anyone saying that Obama wants to remain president forever. I've very happy you had a wonderful time at your family gathering... It shouldn't matter who was invited. I've experienced many family gatherings with pretty much the same set of people. Most families have diverse members; it's what makes families interesting and wonderful at the same time.

Ursula said:

But when those conservative religious ideals enter into politics, I do object because they begin to encroach on my lawful freedoms - such as my right to privacy or protecting the environment.

I really don't see how this is your argument. This is a perceived manifestation of an overactive imagination. You can't cite anyone in recent history, or past history that has done this to the population. No politician can force their beliefs upon you. They can have moral objections to certain types of legislation, but there are also 2 other bodies that govern our nation. Most Christians believe in good stewardship of the environment. I've never heard of a christian politician deny your right of privacy.

I've never heard of a christian politician deny your right of privacy.

Are you kidding? You played right into my hands - look up Roe v Wade and all the GOP defunding of Planned Parenthood...it's the law - one you may not agree with, but the law nonetheless!

@BrianB

"I get it Barb... This is all about that one segment of society... the one that occupies .05% of the population... the vocal and activist gay movement.

Interesting how the liberals place gays at the head of the table when it comes to their political whims. Liberals will completely reject the religion of someone because they know that the religion, and not the person, says what's right or wrong. Maybe liberals just don't believe in right and wrong... they much prefer left over right."

Brian if one single American is deprived the same rights and freedoms as the rest for any reason it is one to many. That is exactly the point of separation of church and state, and why religion should be left out of politics, a religion can say what is right or wrong and that can and has lead people to enact laws that reflect their religious beliefs. Laws can be passed by a small group of politicians and if those laws have a religious perspective then their religion is being forced on all the people under the jurisdiction of those laws. Even if they are passed by a majority of voters it still enforces a religious code on some people who are not of that religion. Some of these politicians are not mentioning their religion in passing or just as a way of letting you know their background, they are sending the message that their religion will absolutely be reflected in their politics and the legislation they will pass. That is not freedom, that is not constitutional, that is not fair to anybody that does not believe as they do. It is not as innocent as some propose in this thread, some of these politicians are most definitely looking to make tenets of their personal religion the law of the land. That is a fact Brian, a very dangerous fact.

Well said, Forrest Grump, I was going to reply but then read yours and decided that you said it all.

But why belittle those who have it?

For starters, I'm sick & tired of having rammed down my throat!

If you want to believe in some invisible dude in the sky, you're free to do so.

However, you have NO right telling me I have to buy into the fairy tale!

The founding fathers set up seperation of church and state for a reason...

I wonder if you'd be interested in Pawlenty's religious beliefs if he were a Jew...or a Muslim.

WCA - What exactly is wrong with believing in God and sharing how you feel with other people who want to get to know you?

Nothing is wrong with that WCA, absolutely nothing.

WCA---one of the best things about America is that we do have freedom of religion---look at how many places in the world live in a state of religious strife. But we also have separation of church and state so it makes many of us nervous to see religion brought into politics to the extent it is these days. Some of us also have the sense that views that do not agree with the conservatives would not be respected.

Couldn't be further from the truth wca. I hate it when Christians start the lyng game on religion and the founding of this country and tell me that their religion is "our" religion.

Tell me why, when a resolution was introduced in the continental congress by Ben Franklin to start each session with a prayer, it was voted down and prayer in the congress didn't start untill all those guys were dead and buried.

This thread is the perfect example of what being spiritually devoid looks like. It's nasty, it's cynical, it's vicious, it's hate-filled, it's non-accepting, it's rude, it's mean, it's...well, if evil exists, it must look like the posters above.

I'm not particularly religious, but after reading the comments above, I think I might just get myself to a church this weekend!

Feisty, no one is shoving it down your throat and your response is exactly what I am talking about and expect from you.

Ursula - What part of Higher Power did you not understand?

Steeler - The current President has been pretty vocal about his Christian Beliefs, did the Left shout him down? Please don't go into the whole Muslim/Christian thing. I know part of him speaking out was to shut up the loons who didn't believe him. That is not what I am talking about.

For most of the people I know, that have some sort of spirituality in their life, it is is a pretty important aspect of who they are and the decisions they make. So I guess when we are trusting one person with the most important job in the world, it is important to know where their direction is coming from and why, if there are contradictions, those contradictions exist.

White Collar,

I belong to the Congregational Church. I am a liberal. It infuriates me to see Republicans exploit their religious affinity to garner votes.

A) It's actually an un-Christian thing to do, and if Pawlenty read and understood the New Testament he'd know that and B) It's un-American, considering we have religious freedom in this country, as well as freedom from religion.

WCA - What exactly is wrong with believing in God and sharing how you feel with other people who want to get to know you?

Nothing is wrong with that WCA, absolutely nothing.

Mr. Pawlenty's faith is his business and no one else's. My faith is my business and no else's. Scripture says...

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

I object to people who feel they must use their faith to win office. It should not make a difference. Do we not still have Article VI of the Constitution ("no religious test")? Do we not still have a First Amendment?

Why, then, do candidates make a big deal out of their faith?

Why do they question the faith of others?

How much of Mr. Pawlenty's grand statement on his Christianity is a back-handed slap at Mitt Romney?

Bottom line: If you seek to cast your vote for the candidate you believe is the "most religious" you deserve all the disappointment you get.

Da Noid - I object to people who feel they must use their faith to win office. It should not make a difference.

But it does Da Noid.

Just like every single little part of their lives. Why do people go through the candidates e-mail and garbage? Why does it matter what Michelle Bachmann's husband did? Why does it matter what Reverend Wright had to say? Why does it matte rhow much a bottle of wine that Paul Ryan had cost?

Sadly, it does matter to voters today. That doesn't mean one has to belittle another's faith. That is simply wrong in my opinion.

Remember, the Republicans don't own the market on God.

Da Noid, yes we have a first amendment and thank you for exercising yours.

Yes, regarding voting for politicians or solely due to religious issues you will be disappointed.

Christ himself said that his kingdom is not of this earth.

No one said they did Job1. But it is the Left that consistently attacks the Right whenever the subject of Faith comes up.

I promise you if you look into the Democratic Politicians campaigns, you will find plenty of "marketing" of their faith as well. Why begrudge anyone that if it is a part of who they are?

Remember, the Republicans don't own the market on God.

Job1, I agree with you, but if you read the liberals hateful comments on here it sorta makes you second guess that statement. LOL Some of these people should be ashamed. They are an embarrassment to our country. They are very intolerant of people with different then theirs. They have very anti american views!!

WCA - I couldn't agree with you more. When Jimmy Carter was elected, he used his faith in his campaign. Nobody seemed to complain back then. Now the liberals complain about everything about conservative politicians. It's not only their faith, it's the way they part their hair, it's the clothes they wear, it's the way they walk... anything they can ridicule.

Let's face it... liberals use unreasonable attack platforms when they encounter a politician that doesn't fall in line with their thinking. If any conservative breathes a word about their faith, the liberal attack dogs are released. It shows their immaturity level when they do the attack thing without cause. Then if you mention they do it, they not only attack, they get rabid.

Leave it to "Realhope" to remind us all of the other thing that Conservatives like to claim they own...

Faith and Patriotism..."If you are a Liberal you aren't religious enough and you aren't patriotic enough!"

Thanks.

"Brianb":

Pot, meet kettle!

How else do you explain a Right Wing Smear Campaign that somehow claimed in 2008 that Obama was both a radical Christian and a Muslim AT THE SAME TIME? How do you explain their claim that Obama is both a Communist and a Fascist AT THE SAME TIME?

Please go back to my question about Pawlenty and his testemonial about his faith...how much of this is a back-handed slap at Romney?

(Remember, it was Michael Steele who said that "The Base" rejected Romney's Mormonism.)

Leave it to "Realhope" to remind us all of the other thing that Conservatives like to claim they own...

LOL Hey man just pointing out an observation of the hateful posts on here. They speak for themselves.

I have no problem with the Pawlenty's discussing their faith except for this. There was a time in this country when personal religion was just that, a private choice. With too many conservatives today, it is demanded that the Pawlenty's speak in depth of their faith. What matters is the person, not their religion. What matters is does the person have the intelligence, the demeanor, the character to make the decisions necessary to lead the country, not their religion.

While conservatives resent their faith attacked, what I resent from conservatives is the constant inference that liberals are devoid of religion, that we're devoid of morals, and so on. I know a number of republicans who are not religious and a number of democrats who are. Religion is bi-partisan just as is patriotism, love of country--one side does not have a lock on it.

Jody, nobody ever said one side or the other has a lock on Spirituality. But read the comments above from the Left and you will get your answer as to the "perception" why the inferences are out there.

Read what I wrote in the first Post. I knew when I wrote it that it would be attacked. I even knew who some of the attackers would be. Not to hard to figure out. Comments about invisible dudes and fairy tales. I'm sure those comments do not reflect the majority of the left, but often they are the loudest. It goes both ways.

Sorry, but I have suffered some incredible tradegies in my life and if wasn't for that "invisible" faith, I am not sure how I would have made it through them. I suppose to some on the left, that makes me weak, I tend to think it makes me stronger.

Da Noid said:

"Brianb":

Pot, meet kettle!

How else do you explain a Right Wing Smear Campaign that somehow claimed in 2008 that Obama was both a radical Christian and a Muslim AT THE SAME TIME? How do you explain their claim that Obama is both a Communist and a Fascist AT THE SAME TIME?

That's easy Da Noid. Because Obama never defined himself. The church he attended was a radical church. Not religiously radical.. politically radical. Obama also associated himself with Farakan who is a Muslim. No distinction was ever made by Obama... just like he never addressed his birth certificate until forced into the corner. Obama is elusive, evasive and a known liar.

Please go back to my question about Pawlenty and his testemonial about his faith...how much of this is a back-handed slap at Romney?

You know, I don't really care. I'm not a republican and there's plenty of time before the actual candidate is presented. Let them fight it out tooth and nail... they can swipe at each other, attack each other... play dirty tricks on each other... it will all come out in the wash.

Brianb ~ What difference does it make whether President Obama defines himself or not? Do you feel you have some right to judge him on his religion, provided that he does define it? Does not defining it somehow diminish him?

Once it's injected into a campaign it becomes an issue. But the fact that a person wants to keep their religion a private matter ought to be in their favor, rather than a bone to pick.

We don't need zealots of any kind running the government. And we especially don't need hypocritical zealots who talk about Jesus as if He's their BFF and then turn around and bash poor people.

Give me a compassionate Muslim or a "radical" Christian any day over the hypocritical pods who inhabit Republican costumes these days.

By the way -- President Obama DID address the birth certificate issue, right up front and many times thereafter. It was just the ignorant zealots -- like you apparently -- who refused to let it go. And who ended up with egg on their faces over that? You, apparently.

And what EXACTLY is President Obama known to lie about, Brianb? Was it weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, perhaps? Or the connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein? Two lies for which nearly 5,000 Americans have died and massive debt has been incurred?

Or maybe arms for hostages in violation of the Constitution?

Or a certain little break-in to a D.C. hotel?

Please.

Religion would be fine if they weren't trying to push their moral code on the rest of us through politics.

I am governor now, I can end all abortions in my state.

Gay people can't marry because it threatens christian marriages.

The Salem witch trials were the reason for the separation of church and state the founding fathers feeling that the religious were too emotional to judge and rule our country properly.

Now the religious are trying to convince us that the founding fathers just forgot to include them or they really did include them and did not tell the rest of us. I think if the religious want to get into politics then it is time to start taxing churches. Cause there is no separation anymore.

WCA, of course the conservatives are ramming religion down our throats!

What do you call all of the attacks on reproductive rights? On gay rights? What do you call the "family values" initiatives?

Anna Molly -

Brianb ~ What difference does it make whether President Obama defines himself or not? Do you feel you have some right to judge him on his religion, provided that he does define it? Does not defining it somehow diminish him?

Well, this is a pretty interesting question. I would say that it's important for a Presidential candidate to define himself. He's a public figure. He would make decisions that effect the nation. He should have defined himself before the election but he did not. Did he ever define "Hope and Change?" I'm not real hopeful the change that has occured is beneficial for the nation as a whole considering our economic and jobless situations. What you say about judging a person's religion needs to apply to the side that is most critical. What's this FR topic all about and what are the reactions exhibited on this board by the left? There is a lot of judgement going around.

Once it's injected into a campaign it becomes an issue. But the fact that a person wants to keep their religion a private matter ought to be in their favor, rather than a bone to pick.

It depends on what side you represent. It's important to conservatives. It may not mean a tittle to liberals, but they complain about it all the time when a candidate releases their faith issues. They don't get to choose the republican/conservative candidate but they sure act like they do.

We don't need zealots of any kind running the government. And we especially don't need hypocritical zealots who talk about Jesus as if He's their BFF and then turn around and bash poor people.

Then you have every right to not vote for them if that is your position. I'd prefer knowing how strong they represent their faith. Remember, the republicans are in a contest void of your input for now. When they become nominated, things change.

Give me a compassionate Muslim or a "radical" Christian any day over the hypocritical pods who inhabit Republican costumes these days.

This is your political choice Anna. Nobody is denying your opinion, but for now, the republicans are battling other republicans for the spot. It's not as if they have chosen the candidate that will battle Obama. Chances are, you will vote for Obama anyway, no matter how good the republican candidate is. I know your party loyalty.

By the way -- President Obama DID address the birth certificate issue, right up front and many times thereafter. It was just the ignorant zealots -- like you apparently -- who refused to let it go. And who ended up with egg on their faces over that? You, apparently.

You really don't want to go there with me, do you? I don't appreciate being called an ignorant zealot. I was making a point Anna. I never questioned the birth certificate. I thought we were past calling each other names. I've even tamed my generalizations down because of you.

And what EXACTLY is President Obama known to lie about, Brianb? Was it weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, perhaps? Or the connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein? Two lies for which nearly 5,000 Americans have died and massive debt has been incurred?

Or maybe arms for hostages in violation of the Constitution?

Or a certain little break-in to a D.C. hotel?

I'm at an empasse right now Anna. I guess the little truce was only short lived? I didn't attack you but I sure feel like you are attacking me and is totally unexpected... Maybe I am delusional about trying to bridge communications with the liberals on this board. You know I can easily respond to each of your accusations with equal and just as powerful responses... but right now I don't know if it's worth it.

How do YOU know I wouldn't vote for a Republican, Brianb? As far as I'm concerned, Pawlenty's flaunting of his religion brings it into play and everyone has a right to comment on it. I never said that Republicans didn't have a right to comment on President Obama's religion because he has also made it an issue. You have a right to say the comments are off-base, but not that there is no right to comment.

I do apologize for the ignorant zealot remark -- as it was beneath me -- but YOU first put birtherism into play by saying President Obama was evasive about it, which was WAY out of bounds as far as I'm concerned, especially as the facts shook out. No use in doubling down on what was a very bad bet, Brianb. You don't get to overlook what you said by pointing at me.

I appear to have asked you a question you can't answer. You accused the President of being a liar and now won't back it up.

As for truces, I've been there before, and it didn't always work out. But I am willing to try. Just tell the truth, don't always feel the need to defend the indefensible, and we'll get along just fine.

Whether getting along with me is worth it is totally up to you to decide.

And once they do, it's fair game. If they don't want to be questioned about it, then don't answer questions about it.

Don't ask, don't tell should apply to politics and religion. Can we pass that into law? That would be a bigger battle than the deficit battle. :0)

And let`s not forget With Liberty and justice FOR ALLLLLLLLLLL

And the "under God" part of the Pledge of Allegiance wasn't added until the zealots and idealogues in the 1920s put it there...

And don't forget that 'pass a camel through the eye of a needle' deal, either.

See, they want to believe, but just the parts that fit their views. And they want YOU to believe the same thing(s).

And they want YOU to believe the same thing(s).

Kinda like, you're either with us or against us...

You can now bring a gun to church in Louisiana.

Do you take Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? Well do ya punk?

Forrest Grump

Do you take Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? Well do ya punk?

I don't....you got a problem with that?

Now, that's funny as hell, right there, Forrest. 'Specially to an Eastwood guy!

I stole that from Pastor Harry's sermon at "Our Lady of the 44 Magnum" church

I have no problem with that at all Ira, that is the point, a persons religion is their personal business and should not be a political consideration whatsoever.

Now it's come to this. Wide-eyed armies of the faithful.

From the Middle East to the Middle West. Pray and pass the ammunition.

"The Way The Wind Blows" - Rush

Ira, show me one time the President has advocated bringing his religion into my life. Show me countless times Pawlenty and those like him say we should have his religion in our schools, sporting events, workplace, national parks, public spaces, EVERYWHERE.

Something that the President's spokesperson says in answer to a question about the President's faith or to refute yet another lie about his religion is hardly equal to statements put out by candidates seeking votes because of their faith.

Yes, Ira- Obama made those public announcements. But, my point is- he shouldn't have had to.

But your point about Pawlenty trying to appeal to Evangelicals is valid too.

And- it lets those of us that don't trust Evangelicals with OUR government decide who WE should trust at election time.

DBO:

There should be NO discussion of religion in our NATIONAL discourse.

What a candidate from either party needs to do to appeal to their base is separate and distinct.

I, too, don't want to hear religious issues debated in our NATIONAL debates, like the Presidential debates.

I followed your link, Ira.

The news report cites a statistic that last summer, 1 out 5 Americans thought President Obama was a Muslim.

Nice to think the misunderstanding arose by rumors spread by the party that tries to appeal to evangelical Christians, isn't it?

I remember when Colin Powell endorsed then-candidate Obama and said that he was not a Muslim but should it matter if he were? He went on to point out that there are Muslims buried in Arlington Cemetery as well as Christians, Jews, athiests, etc. Wouldn't it be nice if we all could respect each other's choices about religion?

Amy B. Portland, ME..

FYI...about the same amount still due...so what. Why is it part of a WH briefing?

There's no misunderstanding about Obama and his faith and he has publicly disclosed what he has said.

From February 3, 2011..

Obama said he frequently prays...

"For my ability to help those who are struggling. we are called work on behalf of a God who shows justice and mercy and compassion to the most vulnerable...

He points out that believers are not alone in these prayers. He spoke about the partnerships of faith groups and government to expand the ways they can do more to fight poverty and hunger and build up families.

God gave him humility, he joked, by letting him marry Michelle. But Obama went on to quote Job 37:4-6:

God's voice thunders in marvelous ways. He does wondrous things beyond our understanding.

And he prays to'walk closer with God and make that my recurring task..." he said, turning to quote a passage from Isaiah.

My prayer this morning is that we might see the face of God each and every day, as we go through the hustle and bustle of our lives, that we rise above the here and now and kneel before the eternal. Remember that 'those who wait on the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.'

His morning prayer "when I wait on the Lord" is to ask the Lord for strength, and each night, he said, he asks God to forgive his sins and to look after his family and the nation.

I must work and sacrifice and serve to see (these prayers) answered, but I always say these prayers knowing the act of prayer is a source of strength, a reminder that our time on earth is not about us...

This is far from the first time Obama has spoken of his upbringing, how he found Christian faith, how prayer sustains him or unfurled quotes from Job, Isaiah and other beloved Bible passages."

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2011/02/obama-christian-prayer-breakfast-doubt/1

I think Ira is off his meds today.

I noticed that too GM!

It's always just a matter of time.... ;o)

Gingerbread Mamma

I think Ira is off his meds today.

You sure it's Ira writing the posts?

Maybe Ira went back to work and Groucho is writing them?

May Ira went back to work and Kirby is writing them?

Maybe Ira went back to work and Spanky is writing them?

Could be Anna Molly as kirby in idaho suggests.

As I said, what a dilemma, right?

Maybe Ira went back to work and Groucho is writing them?

May Ira went back to work and Kirby is writing them?

Maybe Ira went back to work and Spanky is writing them?

Oh no we have been fooled this poster is actually using an anagram its - Air Palin :}

Yellowdog-Mark D..

Damn Yellowdog, you outed me!

I was raised a Catholic but I like to keep an open mind, I like to believe there are several gods watching over us kinda like us down here on Earth watching the Government and making sure nobody gets too powerful. It`s crazy to think we could say you over there will never make to heaven because you are not a Christian, and because I am not of any other religion I should have the wrath of your God upon me. The nice thing is I like to celebrate all religious holidays Come on doesn`t everyone like celebrations?

Catholics have fun we get to drink beer and play bingo in the church basement.

You are absolutely right Ira. And you are right more often than Spanky. I'd say 54% of the time.

kirby in idaho..

You know Spanky is going to be pissed about that...he doesn't like me.

You sure you're not talking to Groucho, Spanky, Kirby?

A hell of a dilemma, right?

Well, he likes you in your Groucho iteration and he loves you when you are Anna Molly (As do I), but you're right. He ain't so sure about the Ira guy.

kirby in idaho..

Well then...I'll need to talk to Kirby and Groucho about that and make sure Ira isn't so mean.

Maybe this is Spanky talking to you?

Haven't been on the boards a whole day.

Sorry for delay in getting back to you Ira. I was out walking my dogs, Spanky and Groucho. Oh wait, I mean Feisty and Bev, no Drive by doxie and Amy the attack chiweenie.

So, Ira, who are we, really?

And, of course Spanky has been on the boards, He is just being No Jo today, I think.

kirby in idaho..

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Who are we....we're really a Mixed Bag....oh no...could it be.

Well, now we know. Mixed Bag it is. Of course I will now refer to you (as a smear, of course), as Bag Boy.

Wow- is that hit of acid kicking in already?????

Sunshine and lollipops for everyone.

Now that is just some funny stuff right there.

You all, (or just you, or you guys, or you guys and gals) are just a riot.......

Especially like the dog walking bit.

Speaking of Mixed Bag-

Check out Round Two with David Walker on First Thoughts.

Mixed Bag..

I've been involved in this anti-Semitic discussion once before and it was the main reason I stopped posting here for a long while.

I am not going to be the spokesman for all things Jewish on FR but I want to comment on what I read on FR First Thoughts.

When someone is talking about a member of the Jewish religion and uses the age old anti-Semitic slurs about Jews and money and selling out Christ for 30 pieces of silver, that is, with no hesitation in writing this, blatantly anti-Semitic. No further discussion deemed necessary.

For someone else to say...I think it was John A.....that the 30 pieces of silver comment was common usage in his part of the planet.....well it's not on my side of the world. It's an anti-Semitic slur and if you use it John A, please stop. Perhaps you don't understand how that term was used a thousand times over as a reason to persecute Jews...and it still as as evidenced by David Walker.

That's why, Forrest, I took umbrage with your comments.

Thanks for fighting the fight MB..

Ira-

I don't always agree with you...far from it.

But we're on the same page this time.

I despise racism and bigotry generally...whether it's those who oppose President Obama because of his skin color and ethnic background, or Eric Cantor because of his religion and ethnicity.

It's intellectually dishonest to oppose someone politically, based on not on their political positions and policies, but on their racial, ethnic, or religious backgrounds.

It's completely unfair and totally unacceptable, here or anywhere.

I haven't read the latest on First Thoughts, but I do remember the rabid anti semitism that popped up when Obama talked about Israel going back to the 1967 borders. Now, some of it was simply from people that will agree with anything Obama says, right or wrong, but a lot of it was just pure, plain unaduilterated hate for all things Jewish. There was and is no excuse for it.

I think Obama is not pro Israel, but that doesn't make him anti semitic. That may be a distinction without a difference, but the blind anger on these threads for a few days was just astounding.

Ira I did not mean to offend you, I made fun of my own religion, well not the religion but of people who use their religion in a political context, or try to impose it on others. I am not sure why you took umbrage, but as I said a persons religion is their business, that is one of our most important freedoms as Americans, freedom to practice any religion you desire, or none at all, and it should not be a political issue, and certainly not a campaign plank.

Here's a newsflash for the crowd who needs some cheese to go with their WHINE - I had NO idea Cantor was jewish... nor do I CARE!

Regardless of his faith, he's still a traitorous b@stard who's willing to bring financial ruin to this country for personal gain!

David Walker was correct when he mentioned earlier, how MB & the rest will do anything to distract from facts...

It's one of the oldest tricks in the Karl Rove divide & conquer manual!

I believe you on Cantor, Feisty.

You have no idea about a lot of things.

Here is a fact Feisty. Just because you hate Cantor does not mean he is a traitor. No wonder you have no credibility with other than your close buddies here.

Oh, and David Walker is just another anti-semite.

What I find most fascinating about Cantor's performance is his duplicity about what he actually stands to gain by choosing to go with the 'nuclear option' and defaulting on the Debt Ceiling…

A $15,000 investment is pocket change
for a person of Cantor's means, but the fact that he would bet against his own
country speaks volumes about the character of the man.

During
a February 28 speech at Harvard, Cantor said, "Our people want the
government to do less. Our businesses want us to stop spending money we don't
have," he said. "We all assume everyone deserves a fair shot at success. Yet many
Americans are wondering what happened to their fair shot in life?"

It is interesting that Cantor would
dare to speak of fairness when he stands to financially profit from the
potential devastation of millions of Americans through a misfortune which he will
have helped directly and intentionally cause. In an April
10 appearance on Fox News Sunday, Cantor said, "I have to believe that the
president and the White House are beginning to sense the American people get
it. You know, we have a fiscal train wreck before us. And unless we act, and
act deliberately, we're not going to enable our kids to have what we have. It's
plain and simple as that."

Cantor has a history of betting
against America. The difference is that in 2011, he now has the power make sure
that his bets pay off.

Conflict of interest, abuse of power,
it doesn't matter what you call it. Eric Cantor's desire to make a profit based
on the pain and misery of very people that he has taken an oath to represent is
just plain wrong.

Eric Cantor is the Republican House leader who can't wait to see America fail.

In fact, he's counting on it.

Your financial destruction will be Eric Cantor's gain.

I guess this is what Republicans mean when they refer to one of their own as a "Real American."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicususa.com%2Fen%2Funamerican-eric-cantor&ei=SkIcTp_eM6XlsQLHiuGmCA&usg=AFQjCNHbZKNpJCgSLp9rPMJ1Id1NeX6zsg

Pat---They also like "FOX" poop! They just eat it up!

I sense you're holding back, Pat---please tell us how you really feel!

er, some of those people are my family, and they are very nice.

We just don't talk politics at the Thanksgiving table!

Well Pat that isn't really PC of you. Do you personally know any evangelicals? Hint.... they aren't all the same and don't all believe the same way.

You raise good points, Kate---that is why the founding fathers were so wise.

Good post, Allen.

The reason that videos like this disturb me is simple - I have great respect for anyone who truly believes in their religion and who actually lives the values they profess to cherish - right up to the point where they claim that their religion - any religion - has a moral superiority to any other or is somehow more patriotic than any other. For the Pawlentys to discuss their faith is fine, and if anyone chooses to vote for him on that basis, so be it. But I get very uncomfortable when I see discussions of faith being so intertwined with images of the flag and talk of "defending our values" against those who do not share them. Somehow, I just can never quite shake the feeling that people like Pawlenty and his wife actually believe that as an atheist I am somehow less moral and less "American" than they are and that my very existence somehow threatens their "values". They might as well come right out and say that the only good American is a Christian American. You'll excuse me if I find that highly insulting.

I also have to question the quote Mrs. Pawlenty uses to prove her point - something Benjamin Franklin supposedly said about "if a sparrow could not fall without God's knowledge, is it possible that an empire could rise without his aid?" I can think of any number of empires that rose pretty far without ever once praying to the same God the Pawlentys do. I think they need to re-read the part in the Bible about the meek inheriting the earth. Or maybe the part about not judging others lest you be judged yourself. Or maybe the part of the Declaration of Independence about all men being created equal. Then come back and tell me how you would fight as quickly to defend MY values.

On a lighter note......had to chuckle a bit over the first two lines of the story above. Not sure a "straw poll" is exactly the best place for someone who's hoping to "catch fire". Anyone else reminded of the Wicked Witch of the West and the Scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz? Make sure you keep a bucket of water handy, T-Paw!

Now DBO, you know it''s not "3 guys". You have to assign a stereotype, is it:

a priest, a rabbi and a cleric or

a black guy, a white guy and an asian or

a catholic, a jew and a muslim or

american, a polish and an irish or

well, you get the idea, but I'm pretty sure you knew that already.....

"It is how you live not what you claim.'

Is that ever the truth. Whenever anyone feels they have to say -- you can trust me --I'm a Christian --- a big red flag goes up saying -- keep a sharp eye on this clown -- he's out to get you. If you have to brag about it, you're probably not very good at it.

I do not want religion from a politician and I don't want politics from a preacher.

Amen

Pawlenty has done exactly that. He has plans out there. Of course you have to be able to read.

Independents for T Pawlenty. His honesty will be a breath of fresh air in Washington................