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Subscribe to RSSAhead of another round of high-stakes deficit talks at the White House, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell announced this afternoon a Republican "back up" plan for raising the debt ceiling if the White House talks fail - a plan he described as a "last choice" option.
The plan is complicated, but essentially the president would have the authority to raise the debt ceiling in three increments until the 2012 election without having to agree to spending cuts upfront. He would only have to submit proposals for spending cuts with each request to raise the debt ceiling.
McConnell said the plan is not his first choice, but Republicans wanted to send a signal to the markets that there is a way out.
"We think it’s extremely important that the country reassure the markets that default is not an option," McConnell said in announcing his plan.
McConnell admitted that this legislation does not guarantee the spending cuts the Republicans have been fighting for, but there may be no other way to avoid default.
"We have become increasingly pessimistic that we will be able to reach an agreement with the only person in America who can sign something into law, and that's the president of the United States,” McConnell told reporters.
More details on the plan per two GOP aides:
Congress would write a law that requires the president to submit to Congress a request to raise the debt ceiling three separate times before the 2012 election, totaling $2.4 trillion dollars to cover the government's obligations.
Part one: The initial legislation would authorize the president to submit a request to Congress asking to increase the debt limit by $700 billion and would require submission of a plan to reduce spending by a commensurate amount.
Once Congress receives that request, the debt limit would be provisionally increased by $100 billion to avoid an Aug. 2nd default.
The $700 billion request would also would trigger a so-called "resolution of disapproval" in Congress. Congress would then vote on that resolution. The assumption is that House Republicans would vote in favor of the resolution to voice their protest over the debt ceiling increase and Senate Republicans are betting they could get enough Democrats to vote for the resolution. If both chambers pass the resolution to disapprove of the debt-ceiling increase, McConnell said he assumes the president would veto it, and that veto would be sustained in Congress, because only one-third plus one would be needed. Hence the debt ceiling is increased.
Parts two and three: This same process would be repeated in the Fall of 2011 and the Summer of 2012 -- both times at a $900 billion increase.
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Beware of old turtle's extendng 'olive branches'!
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is a Teapublican Trojan Horse...
President Obama NEEDS to tell them to SHOVE IT & get back to work on addressing deficit spending & revenue increases!
BTW - in case old Mitch has forgotten, he is the Senate MINORITY leader for a reason!
If Feisty has reservations...McConnell's suggestion is probably a good thing.
I posted this on an earlier thread when Feisty provided the link to the story. Looks like she may be a little slow, but she finally got there. Accept it or reject, either way, McConnell has set the President up, but good..
Feisty, you really don't see what McConell is doing? 70% of Americans don't think the Debt Ceiling shoud be raised. Give the power to the President. Let him raise it. If he wants to lead, then lead. In the end only the President will be held responsible.
There is no way that Harry Reid and the President are going to buy into this, but now McConnell can say he offered. Actually, pretty brilliant move if you ask me.
you were right Mixed - I went back and took a look at our pal David Walker's contributions to the discussions this morning.
Oh. My. God. What a total tool.
I got to hand it to you Mixed you have a certain way about you that cuts directly to the bone, in a no bull@!$%# way. Unfortunately, I fear that your brand of humor is lost on your average First Reader. It's a lot like poor old Dangerfield. I typically disagree with him politically, but he is a crack up. But his humor is also typically lost on the gang here.
My thought is that as we continue to go down the economic toilet [and I presume you saw today's GDP downgrade to a whopping 1.6% - which is expectedto be further revised later] the libbies here, like our buddy David, will get even worse.
At least the old guard like Feisty, Navy, Bev. etc. are consistent. It's like you said the other day to Amy/Jody [I assume they are the same person, same life experiences and same economic abilities and outlook] - if they were in NoJo's position they'd last about a day.
Or less.
And man, I miss Eric from Salinas also.
Someone remind me again how often these same Republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling during the Bush administration. I didn't hear them, even when they had control of both houses of Congress, placing conditions on George W. Bush like the ones they are trying to impose on President Obama.
The irony in all of this being, of course, that the reasons why Bush needed to raise the debt ceiling -- financing the war in Iraq and implementing the otherwise unfunded Medicare Part D -- are now among the principal causes of the current deficit. They raided the Social Security surplus and are now insisting on shared sacrifice by taking away benefits from the elderly, who have already paid for them, in return for tax breaks for corporate jets. They declare those tax breaks insignificant, but attack funding for Planned Parenthood and NPR based on the trumped up charge that it adds too much to the deficit.
And we take these guys seriously?
I mean ... seriously.
Good Lord AM -
What a regurgitation of Libbie talking points. C'mon, you can do better.
And as far as the corporate jets, just look at the luxury boat building indusrty from a few years ago. You are ready to tax another industry out of existence?
Seems like Obama should have gotten the war is expensive let's not do them anymore memo.
Wait, did he say he had gotten and understood that memo during the campaign? Am, was he lying to us then?
Oh and the elderly paid a portion of the cost of their benefits. See, that's the whole insolvency thing-y. You know the one, where your debts exceed your revenue.
Besides jets are shiny and you can fly around in them. Fetus - not shiny and not very aero-dynamic.
Oh and wasn't Part D for the elderly? Giving, taking, all works out in the end, right AM? You know like Greece. No wait, like Spain. Nope, like Italy. Italy going down too, oh my!
@ kirby -- Luxury boats? Sure. Tax them out of existence. My, my. What WILL those poor sad rich people do when they have no luxury boats to buy? I don't know, but I do know what Medicare recipients would do with that money. If I get to pick what jobs to save, it would probably be autoworkers.
As for my "regurgitation" of "libbie talking points," maybe I could "do better." But you'll probably never know because I'll defer doing better until you refute THOSE talking points.
A lot of bad rhetorical tricks being used out here this afternoon, including Spanky's usual derisive mocking.
@ Spanky: Sorry, Spanky. It's turned out to be a bad day, and I guess I'm just not in the mood. The fetus joke could probably be improved. But how many times does someone have to tell you that Social Security is NOT insolvent before you finally get it? And even if it was insolvent, why on earth would you want to preserve corporate jet privileges over survival for senior citizens?
Ayn Rand might approve, but what would Jesus do?
AM-
Okay, be sure and tell the people that build the boats and planes and sell them that their services are no longer required because evil rich people buy their products.
As far as the wars, you get no argument from me. We shouldn't be in any of the 3 we are in. But they all belong to Obama now.
\And, I have to say, no question we raised the debt limit, but our now President voted against it, citing a failure of leadership. Who is the leader now and who is asking for it now?
Medicare part D was a huge, stupid mistake and everybody that voted for it should be gone.
AM? really I know you are 1. not this clueless and 2. remember all the way back to 1997 when Clinton put the big bad luxury tax on boats and other "luxury" goods. Epic fail. Come on you remember, right?
See it didn't really hurt the rich, but it wiped out the poor saps that make the boats and stuff. You recall they repealed that tax real quick? So now you are for increased unemployment? Boat makers, repair men, the people that make parts and equipment> WHY DO YOU HATE THEM AM?
Social security has no money. Didn't Obama say the checks will not go out if the debt ceiling is not raised?
Jets are shiny, social security is not, in the long term viable. Unlikely I will get it. No way my kids will. There is no more pie in the sky my dear. Fetus maybe, pies definitely not.
Besides Ayn would kick Jesus' ass, like David Walker on a jew. :)
Apparently Reagan should have told his democrat congress to shove it back when they agreed to spending cuts in exchange for tax increases.
The point about the boats is a BIG red herring.
Clinton was wrong about a lot of things, starting with NAFTA. On the other hand, taxing luxury boats doesn't quite ring my chimes the same way.
The number of jobs in the luxury boat industry is relatively small. People just don't but that many luxury boats. Give that same money to people to buy cars, which cost less, and then see how many jobs that creates. Besides, rich people will just find somewhere else to spend their money, right? At least that's what you conservatives always say. Just give them the money and everything will be rosy. Well, guess what .... it won't.
Thanks for conceding my point about Social Security, if only by silence. It would be viable, certainly in the near term, and even in the long term, if it was done correctly. That might include revenue increases.
And give me one good reason why it should not include revenue increases. We got here in the first place by robbing the Social Security trust fund while at the same time giving tax breaks to the wealthy. If someone has to pay for this maybe it's the people who gained an advantage by it.
Quite frankly, boys, the question shouldn't be how best to cover up the crime done to Social Security. The question should be how to remediate it. Even Spanky knows that if a teenager kicks over your garden gnome and gets caught, that teenager will have to pay for your garden gnome. It's called restitution. Why shouldn't Congress have to figure out a way to make restitution in the form of replenishing the Social Security surplus in real dollars and take responsibility for its crime as well?
I don't trust him. Isn't this the same guy who pledged to make Obama a one-term president? They are setting Obama up to clothesline him in some way.
I feel it more than I know it.
This is worse than Lucy holding the football. This time Lucy is holding the football and it is made of concrete.
And, my lovely Anna Molly, the amount of taxes on corporate jets is infinitesimal, so the dems shouldn't be beating that drum. It is just more class warfare stuff that adds nothing to the debate, except to obscure the real issues.
As far as Social Security, you are right about them stealing it for years, but it was started in the time of good old LBJ. The trust fund would be secure if the dems and repubs would stop stealing it.
We need to put Social Security back into a seperate inviolable trust and keep congresses grimy paws off it.
What do you think the odds of that are?
Spanky-
Glad you could review my back-and-forth with David Walker, if only because you and I had exactly the same take on his comments about Eric Cantor, and he actually decided to call us both out on it this morning.
I did NOT see the 1st quarter GDP downgrade from 1.9% to 1.6%...it only makes me even more apprehensive about the 2nd quarter numbers soon to be released.
Anna Molly-
Anything that gets 'em talking about Social Security's future is a good thing...whether it's means testing, or raising the eligibility age.
As it stands right now, the young in this country are going to be indentured servants to the baby boomers.
Slaves...not working for themselves and their own families, but for the most selfish generation America has ever produced.
That's the deal they're locked into...just wait 'till they figure out they've been stuck with the check.
It won't be pretty, AM.
Hy Mixed Bag, you be nice to us baby boomers. After all, we are the ones that gave you Bill CLinton and Bush 2. Well wait, I mean, there is, never mind......
If it's so "infinitesimal," then neither should republicans. Do you realize how whining and petty you look, kirby, in the face of what Republicans are proposing to do to Social Security and Medicare, and especially after saying we had to cut NPR and Planned Parenthood to save money?
Spoken like a true aristocrat. And you know what happened to them. Why wasn't it obscuring the real issues to spend so much time debating the cutting of funding for NPR and Planned Parenthood?
Seriously, kirby. Do you honestly believe that schlock?
I guess we'll see, won't we, Bag Boy? The proof of any pudding is always in the eating.
And to think that all we have to do to avoid it is to go back to the Clinton era tax rates. I'm willing. How about you?
Oh Anna -
Spoken like an aristocrat? I am/was a blue collar guy my whole working life. I just don't begrudge people that have made a lot of money their success. And their money doesn't belong to me or anyone else. And you are right about NPR and Planned Partenthood. We should just not give them federal money and be done with it.
Would the repubs be talking about the corporate jet taxes if the President hadn't beaten that drum incessantly for weeks? That was and is just a strawman. Besides if it is so bad wgy did the feds give the industry stimulus money?
By the way, are the Minnesotans flocking to Wisconsin becuause the guv is shut down?
Anna Molly...remind me again how bama was vehemently AGAINST raising the debt ceiling...Ahh... don' t bother...it'll be a spin answer as...
liberals don't mind if you an have an opinion, as long as it is the same as theirs...
I bet there's aot of folks on this site waiting for that gubment check in the mail...ha-ha.
See, kirby, that's exactly where they have you buffaloed, because they begrudge YOUR success.
You should be so lucky. ;-)
Maybe, but they're probably not all liberals. And I'm not one of them.
If I admit Obama was wrong then, will you admit Boehner and the other Republicans are wrong now?
Why do I doubt it?
There are authoritarians on both sides of that graph. I'm not one of them, either. But unless you admit that republicans are wrong now, you are.
You should be so lucky. ;-)
Or you should!! I am old, but oh so much fun.
If the tax break on the jets is so infinitesimal why are the Republicans fighting so hard to keep it?
Always remember that age is a state of mind, kirby.
As are most things, it turns out.
So, in the end, the GOP turned down its best recent opportunity to cut several *trillion* dollars in spending, and traded it for... a chance at some cheap political points. This is a revealing moment in our history
ONCE AGAIN Conservatives seek to avoid the responsibilities they wanted from the voters, responsibilities given to them by the Constitution. This proposal doesn't solve anything, it only let's them avoid responsibility for the debt ceiling while setting up an endless cycle of demagoguing the issue from now until the election.
All the while they would pretend Conservatives didn't ALREADY vote to increase the debt when the House passed the Republican budget. It's a ridiculous plan designed to do nothing except allow Republicans to continue to pretend that there are no consequences to not doing the work required, work that's been done 74 times since the JFK administration, incidentally.
Naw John, they are just getting behind Obama.
He very clearly said it would be a failure of leadership to raise the ceiling. He then put his words into action and voted against it.
So why is it not ok for the republicans to do the exact thing Obama himself did?
Oh, and just cause you did something in the past does not make it ok in the present. Or are you not aware that circumstances have changes?
So John, tell us - how much should it be raised to? Why not just et rid of it altogether? Oh and what is the cost of $20 trillion on an annual basis?
McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor are three of the biggest crybabies oh hell lets just face it they are the kind of dishonest cheating pussies my parents and the good Sisters of St. Joseph always taught us not to be. This is the most shameful do nothing Congress of my adult life, anybody who supports these guys has no right to complain about welfare, unions or bailouts because this Congress steals it's paychecks. Nothing is ever their responsibility regardless that they are at the highest levels of government, and have been there for years. Think about the heroic young man in the article below and then think if you had to depend on these punks who can't take a little heat from old ladies with tea bags hanging off their straw hats. They are everything that young man was taught not to be. God bless that young man, and shame on them that they care more about political gamesmanship than the country he nearly died for. They make me sick.
Hey Forrest how would the good Sisters feel about Reid, Pelosi, Rangel and their gang?
I got your staw hatted ladies, but how do you describe the other side? Screaming libbies like Howard Dean or Elliot Spitzer?
Forrest they are politicians. They are politicians cause we could not stomach it.
The more things change, the more we hate politicians. All of them.
You baggers are too funny - do you NOT understand that everytime you collapse me you leave a virtual fingerprint?
Please carry on - it's the quickest way to drain the swamp! LMAO
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community
Beware of old turtle's extendng 'olive branches'!
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is a Teapublican Trojan Horse...
President Obama NEEDS to tell them to SHOVE IT & get back to work on addressing deficit spending & revenue increases!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community
BTW - in case old Mitch has forgotten, he is the Senate MINORITY leader for a reason!
Spanky I will not defend Rangels ethics, but whether you agree with what they did or not Pelosi and Ried did their jobs, they legislated they passed bills they did a little something to earn their paycheck. This Congress has done virtually nothing since elected - 18 BS bills. This default thing seems to be a big deal, and they say what they want then change the demands, the demands are met and they renig time and time again that is not bargaining in good faith it is damn lying and that just burns me up. Spanky do the people you deal with expect you to keep your word, is not your word your bond, your reputation, is that not the most valuable thing you own. Do you negotiate agreements in good faith then renig? I would like to think you certainly do not and if you did your reputation and legal business would and should suffer. Even if these guys do some things I do not agree with I expect the leaders of the nation to try and do something constructive and most of all I don't expect them to lie, I expect them to negotiate in good faith. They have not and I think you are damn well smart enough and honest enough to agree they have not. How would you like to have to work with these guys across the negotiating table. If they were lawyers would you hire them to represent you, if they were lawyers would you employ them to work with your clients and be representatives of your law firm.
I dearly wish our side had that kind of passion Spanky! Your side seems to have the passion, the ability to message, the b***s to seize the initiative and the wisdom to know how and when to dictate the tempo of the battle. Conservative language has been adopted in the common English lexicon: "tax & spend Liberals", "fiscal Conservative", "Liberal media", "pro-life",...etc all of it extolling the false virtues of a party that is cannibalizing America.
Their most recent success? Look how easily and handily they turned around the tenor of the jobs debate. After years of stonewalling and diluting all job-producing legislation and abetting those that undermine economic growth, the republicans have managed to seize the rhetoric from the flaccid Democratic resistance. Just like that,....now the Democrats have "jobs-killing" legislation hung around their neck like a burning tire. Everything from jobs repatriation bills to tax incentives for people creating jobs were stopped or filibustered by repubs. It is public record.
I know without looking that the Dems are going to get blamed for bringing down the economy, for killing jobs and for walking away from the table of debt reduction talks despite offering to trim twice the amount the repubs did.
It confounds me how the repubs do it.
Why didn't Obama pass the budget when he had both the House & Senate??? By the way, read this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/12/lobbyists-50-million-honoring-lawmakers_n_896557.html
Boehner says the debt ceiling is President Obama's problem, so petty and small-minded we see. Boehner demands to see the President's proposal, though we all know Paul Ryan's plan would add 6 trillion in debt, requiring the debt ceiling to be raised. Now the business community is also demanding that the debt ceiling be raised. The debt ceiling must be raised no matter what, and the Republican leadership has ALWAYS known that.
The Dems were willing to compromise with 83% spending cuts if Republicans would agree to 17% revenue increases in the form of closing loopholes and taxpayer subsidies. The Teapublicans would rather have no cuts in spending than concede to ANYTHING, even ending tax evasion and give-aways to special interests.
And in case the GOP/TP think otherwise, the Bush tax cuts will NOT be extended again, at least not for the rich. The votes will not be there. Republicans might have gotten these cuts extended by another year had they been willing to increase revenues in other ways now.
The American people see clearly that Republicans are not sincere about reducing the debt. The American people are watching the unecessary primary in Wisconsin at the taxpayer's expense in which real Democrats are having to defeat fake "Democrats." The American people are watching the Murdoch empire's illegal activities and lack of journalistic standards exposed with each passing day.
In the meantime the Republicans are eating each other alive, the furious Tea-Vangelicals and their ignorant desire for the nation to default versus the Republican leadership who rely on campaign funds from Wall Street and the Chamber of Commerce. This is the bed they made, and these are their bed fellows, and this is the bed they must now sleep in.
I read the plan.
The Republicans get everything they want without giving up anything.
With the wars still going on, the real cost of the wars the Republicans started, are on the back of the poor.
We have to make cuts to everything to pay for the increasing cost of defense. President Obama can raise the debt limit but has to make more than the amount he is increasing the debt in cuts to America.
The rich get richer.
Yay for the "rich!"
Hey American First - why are you not "rich?"
The man got you down or something? Get out there and start up a business or something. It's hard work, and risky, but dude it beats working for someone else. Plus there is the money thing.
Spanky,
If you make $250,000 in Omaha, you're rich.
If you make $250,000 in San Diego you're just middle class.
Cost of living out there is horrendous in Military and University towns,....and San Diego is both.
Could this be a "compromise" to the Democrats plan?? Could this be a "adult" moment??
Naw... it just doesn't fit in with the Republicans "it's their way or the highway" mentality and it doesn't take away social security and gives tax breaks to the rich!
Those racist republicans wanting to give "this" president special powers ... it just can't be true...
Da-n ba-tards!!
STOP SPENDING and we would not be have this discussion!!
It's that simple!!
"AmericansFirst" - Don't worry, you have to read between the lines of that plan, neither side gets anything actually, they both get to avoid the spending cuts neither wants to really do any way. The president does not have to actually sign off on any cuts. The president outsmarted them and had a better message on this whole issue. What happened was that the bond markets and big business told the republicans that in no certain terms can you let the government default, so McConnell had to eat crow and save face. It's a pseudo deal on paper to appease his party and get the debt ceiling raised without his party agreeing to any cuts in corporate welfare. Quietly, the president won this battle but the American people lost the debt war because this was a real opportunity for both sides to do what is in the best interest of the country and as usual, politicians do what is in the best interest of themselves and the special interests that control them. Political courage is now and oxymoron. Our founding fathers warned us, there should be no such thing as "career politicians" term limits for all politicians (8 years max)...
dump career politicians - yes!
 seems to me this proposed option is the long way around the block. Since they can't agree on spending cuts and revenue increases but the do agree that the debt limit must be increased by Aug 2nd; why not just raise it without the double talk? Then the country and global economy will remain whole while our "leaders" continue to pretend to lead...
Olive branch-yeah right...it's been whittled into a toothpick. Let them put that "clean" debt limit increase to a vote again and tell Wall Street it's a joke. This is the most disgusting, do nothing bunch of GOP/TP hypocrites..
I have a slightly different take on the plan.
While I agree that the debt ceiling debate and budget debate will drag on from now to election day and beyond, some good things come out of this proposal.
First, if the President accepts the proposal, a credit default and Constitutional crisis is averted. Nothing changes for now.
Second, in my perverted view, Mitch McConnell threw Canter, Boehner and the TP Caucus under the bus based on the rhetoric they were spewing today. Basically told them to act like grown-ups.
Third, we now get to see and hear Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) "sweeping plan that he says will reduce the nation's deficit by about $4 trillion over the next decade through a balanced combination of deep cuts in spending and tax hikes". (Cite: FR)
Fourth, perhaps we'll get to see the President adopt as part of his fiscal plan some of the recommendations of the Debt Commission that he appointed.
Hey, consider the alternative, default. This is at least a remedy to stave off default.
I think what he basically said Ira is that Obama is the one who would have to be responsible for telling the American people that he needs to raise the debt limit again and again and again. If he doesnt" (and he won't) cut spending he'll have to explain why not.
This can't be good for the Prez any way you look at it.
kirby in idaho...
I'm not reading that anywhere. I'm reading "the president would have the authority to raise the debt ceiling in three increments until the 2012 election without having to agree to spending cuts upfront. He would only have to submit proposals for spending cuts with each request to raise the debt ceiling."
That fact that he can't spend the increase in the debt ceiling and needs to match increases with cuts is, in my mind, a good thing. We simply cannot afford any more debt.
Ira, it also gives cover to both parties. I think your 4 points are on the money.
Never going to happen - just a jedi mind trick to shove responsibility back to Obama.
No way he will accept responsibiity. Sadly, it just is not his style.
Ira -
I would hope you are right. but I can't and don't believe that the Congress, either party, and this President are going to be good stewards of the American peoples money. Until there are true cuts in spending, through a budgetary process, I don't believe we should give them a dime more than we already do.
Spanky and Kirby,
I really hope you both are wrong.
If this President can't match cuts with increases and keep the budget from growing then, sadly, he is not doing his job. At this point it's a necessity and not a choice. Almost $15 trillion and growing is a sad legacy to leave our children.
Ira -
I hope I am wrong as well, but (Spanky is never wrong) I just don't see a President that believes in a bigger and bigger central government to ever do anything to cut the money down.
kirby in idaho..
Hell Kirby, Spanky is wrong 60% of the time.
He just sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
Damned lawyer tricks.
Yippee, bully for the rich. You can be rich too! It's easy, come on, you can do it , get a job you lazy SOB. What? Nobody is hiring? Start a business. What? You have no money to start one? Well get a job. I hear good Ole hanky spanky down the block is selling a seminar on how to do that. What? You have no money for a seminar? Well get a job. What? No one is hiring? Well start your own business. And on and on and on.
You mean I have been snookered? Damn that man. How dare he be right 40% of the time? But hey, Feisty is wrong 98% of the time and I still read her stuff. And she owes me a recipe as well.
Kirby..
That's funny...
Have a great night.
I am so touched the old Chewowa gang has finally come out of the closet!
You all are cracking me up!
Anyone else ever wonder why Ira & Groucho are never on the board at the same time?
Given their past history, they're not 'sharp' enough to remember which ones which! LMFAO!
Which reminds me - you swore up and down you were going to post the response you got from your whiny e-mails to Tyler & Sally...
@Kirby - ask one of the peeping tom's for the recipe...their selective POUTRAGE is scandalous...
60%? Man, I'm good.
But I like Tom's idea - let's do it Tom. Let's create a seminar to get rich.
I know several people personally and know many professionally who started a business from scratch. Like me they didn't have any money to start up either. Beg, borrow and "steal." Credit cards, lines of credit, you name it.
See Tom, starting and running a business is hard. Real hard. Most cannot do it. But that's life bro. You could take all the wealth from the top 10% and give it to the bottom 20%. In 6 months or less the top 10% would be rich again, and the bottom 20% would be poor.
Life, like Ira's statistics, is not fair.
But you already knew that, right? Of course you did.
Words hurt Ira, words hurt.
Right on Kirby I agree, Fiesty is right 98% of the time. You on the other hand? Well, I reserve judgement. By the way Spanky, I'm self employed and I am not complaining about my circumstances at all. But it is not about just me or you is it?
So Tom, we can add a lack of reading skills to your list.
Feisty -
You were the one that said you would give me the recipe. Going back on your word? I though only evil repubs did that.
Ira and others, I have read this proposal over and over. First of all, the legislative branch is giving up power to the executive branch. Isn't that a constitutional crises right there. The Republicans are saying they don't have the stomach for leadership in a divided government.
2nd: This Byzantine maunever is based on three assumptions: House vote "resolution of disapproval", Senate does the same. Here they need Democratic votes. Finally they assume Obama will veto it. I think they are overreaching.
Political fallout: Mitch hopes this will fulfill his wish that Obama is a one term president. Give tea party Repub. proof that their pledge of NO NEW TAXES is more important than leading even in hard times.
My conclusion: 1. Let the Republican vote this power to president. They should then immediately resign their seats and go home. 2. It all works according to McConnell. The debt ceiling is raised, Obama is last man standing and the voters decide in 2012. November 2012 is a lifetime away.
Totally open for other interpretations....
Fiesty / Clara,
I notice that you and your gang are still blocking all of your old comments, what's wrong you got something to hide? Sure you do.
You kidding Tom - it's always about me.
Hello, evil, selfish, no compassion having conservative here.
What, did you forget?
Ira, Groucho. Groucho, Ira.
Hey - maybe Groucho thinks I'm right 42% of the time?
I love Groucho. That Ira guy, he's mean. Plus I bet David Walker wants to pound his face.
Sparky - I agree with you somewhat. I think Obama played his hand with the SSI checks remark and McConnel countered with this plan
Spanky,
You just love to stir the pot, don't ya.
I think Groucho, Ira, Spanky and Anna Molly are all the same person. I also think Feisty and Bev and Clara are the same person.
Am I wrong?
I've just run the numbers through my virtual Gizmotron 3000. Sorry Spanky, you are only right 32.0078% of the time. Ira was being nice.
Kirby, let me run the numbers on your theory. Let's see, according to my virtual Gizmotron 3000 Groucho, David Walker, NoJo and Indy Lib are all the...............what the hell? Damn cheap Chinese Gizmotrons.
Kirby,
I notice that Spanky was absent last week the same days that the chosen few went to St. Louis. As far as Bev, she is truly an original.
Boehner says the debt ceiling is President Obama's problem, so petty and small-minded we see, especially since it is congress that holds the purse strings. Boehner demands to see the President's proposal, though we all know Paul Ryan's plan would require the debt ceiling to be raised, and would add 6 trillion in debt. Now the business community is also demanding that the debt ceiling be raised, because they aren't as stupid at the Teabaggers and understand the repercussions. The debt ceiling must be raised no matter what, and the Republican leadership has ALWAYS known that.
The Dems were willing to compromise with 83% spending cuts if Republicans would agree to 17% revenue increases in the form of closing loopholes and taxpayer subsidies. The Teapublicans would rather have no cuts in spending than concede to ANYTHING, even ending tax evasion and give-aways to special interests.
And in case the GOP/TP think otherwise, the Bush tax cuts will NOT be extended again, at least not for the rich. The votes will not be there. Republicans might have gotten these cuts extended by another year had they been willing to increase revenues in other ways now. So all you conservatives out there who are obsessed with tax cuts, no doubt you'll give your Republican representatives hell at the next Town Hall.
The American people see clearly that Republicans are not sincere about reducing the debt. The American people are watching the unnecessary primary in Wisconsin at the taxpayer's expense in which real Democrats are having to defeat fake "Democrats." The American people are watching the Murdoch empire's illegal activities and lack of journalistic standards exposed with each passing day.
In the meantime the Republicans are eating each other alive, the furious Tea-Vangelicals and their ignorant desire for the nation to default versus the Republican leadership who rely on campaign funds from Wall Street and the Chamber of Commerce. This is the bed they made, and these are their bed fellows, and this is the bed they must now sleep in.
I totally agree that the McConnell has taken the easy route by suggesting that the authority of increasing the debt-ceiling to the President, even if the end result has to be approved by congress.
The POTUS will not fall for this trap and will hold the GOP's feet to the fire.
McConnell will be ousted for suggesting that he's not up to the job and not willing to do the work his constituents has elected him to do. All the long-term Republican Senators are showing their genuine concern for the American people and the country as a whole. Where is the Tea Party outrage and patriotism?
Looks like Wall Street has given its marching orders. They may call it a last-choice option but how much you wanna bet this is what goes through.
OK it's real simple, get rid of the old gov put in a new. Put the people to work on welfare. Work for pay program, stop the jobs not needed, created by someone, that knows someone, that knows someone, get rid of a lot of gov employers and programs that don't work billions saved here, we can pay the bills. Don't forget about the ghost jobs out there that only the Senators and Congress know about, oh yea billions here. I paid in SS all my life, stop the SS and millions of us will come (OLDER CITIZENS) by car, plane, wheel chair, bus, scooter, you get the idea. Obama is a plant from you know who, and if you don't know i feel sorry for you and this Country.
I agree with wink. There is a family down the street who are riding welfare and are working on getting on ssi. They seem certain that they will get ssi becaise their parents are on it and are showing them how to get it! When Heap deliveries are made to their trailer, pickup trucks with five gallon cans show up almost as soon as the fuel truck pulls away. Yup! They are selling their heap fuel right out of their tank. When they were reported the county said that once it was delivered, it was thiers to do with as they please! It gives me a warm a fuzzy feeling to see my tax dollars used this way, not! They also bartter their food stamps and seem to be doing quite well. Add another three kids being trained to become wefare riding democrates! Tell me they don't vote that way.
Okay...call me crazy but isn't there an alterior motive to this plan? Could it not be that McConnell really does understand that the debt limit should be increased and by his plan he gets to sit smuggly and tell his constituents, "He did it!"?
DaNoid:
Perhaps this represents and attempt on McConnell's part to seize the moral high ground and expunge his voting record to voters. Is he up for re-election this year?
Then again, perhaps he is counting on the lock-step solidarity of the repub rank and file to shoot down whatever Obama proposes (not like they aren't doing this already).
I think it was their plan to duck all responsibility. Now they do not have to agree to anything why they already gave President Obama an option if he does not want to shut down the government.
This is their way of shifting the blame. Now the President and not the Republicans will be blamed if we default.
Slimy, just like their fake democrats to impede an election.
Spanky, No problem dude, have a good night! BTW, What does no compassion having conservative hear mean?
This particular plan accomplishes far more then the current talks could have possibly while placing all of the responsibility for cutting and raising the debt ceiling squarely on the office of the presidency.
Not only is this proposal ludicrously opportunistic it is ....... fundamentally UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!
ROFL!!!!
McConnel has shown a blatant disregard for the role of congress to even suggest this solution. His fellow CONSTITUTIONALIST REPUBLICANS should EAT HIM ALIVE!!!!
But.. oh wait.. they won't ... because this proposal would politically benefit them.
DISSOLVE THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES!
nuff said
Signed
Embittered American Citizen.
I completely a\gree, but replace them with what? Anna Molly is right about needing government financing for all elections, That way the new people won't be corrupted by the lobbyists and special interest groups.
The answer involves another risk.... revolution. And we have not reached the point where the US government is incapable of shutting down a true popular revolution. And, as history has proven, a revolution only resets the corruption but never removes it.
Republicans blink.
Chalk this up as another victory in the War on Terrorism.
Hah really read it.... they aren't blinking.... they are simply posturing more.
read this:
increases in the debt ceiling will have to be offset by a 1:1 spending cut
it's a worthless compromise that is a fundamentally constitutionally bankrupt idea. Seriously, even if temporarily granted, when should we sell out the onus of determining the budget solely on the back of the executive branch!!! This sets a dangerous precedent that should not be toyed with
EVEN FOR POLITICAL GAIN!!!!
Just this morning, they said they would not do something that this evening they will.
That is called "blinking".
The debt ceiling will be raised, just like it should have been in the first place by the same clowns who voted for stuff that they knew would have to paid for.
Close the curtains on this sorry charade.
America wins.
Fair enough i'll accept that this proposal = blinking.
The big question i pose is this:
How does this proposal support the constitutionally granted powers for originating spending bills and raising revenue and furthermore how does this suggestion not expand the powers of the executive office and or give the executive office, if only temporarily, powers reserved for congress?
Thurind:
The answer is that the entire exercise is unconstitutional based on the 14th Amendment. Congress does not have the constitutional right to NOT raise the debt ceiling.
That has been the problem all along.
But equally true the executive branch cannot unilaterally raise the debt ceiling constitutionally either. There is more in the constitution indicating that the increase in the debt ceiling MUST be decided by congress then the concept that the president can unilaterally raise it himself.
In an aside.... both Republicans and Democrats have knowingly and gladly contributed to this mess. Why do we trust either party?
Thurind:
I hope you are sitting down . . .
We don't really HAVE a Congress. Congress was bought long ago. Just the fact that they would come up with something like this in the first place proves that.
They are doing what their corporate bosses told them to do.
They tried to get President Obama to blink so the "corporate people" could make ALL their wishes come true. But since that didn't happen, they will settle for the status quo (which has made them rich, rich, rich).
Got it?
These folks don't give a rats a$$ about the Constitution. They use it as a prop, but they don't care what it says. They follow the money, not the Constitution.
And yes, that is the entire Congress, both parties.
Heh, i'm aware its a crooked game and that we all lose unless we have the money or resources to influence politics. And yes, i am aware that i am faced with a choice of two evils every election.
Thurind:
To be clear, I am a Democrat and I support Democratic ideals. But what I have seen of the way Congress operates makes me understand why nothing real ever gets done. These folks are consumed with THEIR well being, not OURS.
I still remember the HORROR these folks felt the first time President Obama asked them to cancel a recess . . . how could they not have their break from doing nothing like always?
If we want to trim the budget, start with Congress. I don't see why these folks even need a staff, they don't do a damn thing . . . and as you pointed out . . . the stuff they are supposed to be doing? They keep trying to pawn it off on the President.
So much for separation of powers.
Indeed,
We have reached the day and age when it is convenience of powers and reelection that trumps all. Our congress will shuffle off its very duty in exchange for another term in power.
Actually, Im reading this move as an acknowledgement that:
a. McConnell can't stomach the viciousness of the Sandbaggers (think that name fits better than Teabaggers) - peruse the memos about brining him down that are circulating, its a wonder these yahoos haven't gunned each other down yet.
b. There are no leaders in the GOP. Boehner has been turned into the Boy Who Cried Wolf, again, by the Sandbaggers who reverse anything he says and send him back with the opposite message.
c. This is an end run to prevent Obama from using the 14th Amendment which has and will stand the Constitutional test. It is, in essence, a proposal that accomplishes the same as the 14th Amendment without the formality of Obama seizing the control, they are handing it to him to make themselves look less bad.
d. They saw the results of the California election and the headlines about the money they put into Fake Democrat campaigns. Not that it hasn't happened before, but spending Party funds to perpetrate a visible fraud poses some issues as we progress through time to 2012. Some very pointed comments in exit polls are letting them know not only is the general public disgusted, the party base is disgusted and willing to go out to a Democrat primary to say so.
Further - I think Obama let them know the 14th Amendment IS on the table. He's not one to be caught flat-footed on a proposal like this. I predict the White House is going to produce a solid plan and we will really see what doing the necessary work to get the economy back in shape really looks like.
Can anyone say "illegal" or "unconstitutional?"
Oh, so I didn't imagine it! And, no - it's not complicated, McConnell! The Republican/Tea Party plan is to "dump" all the responsibility of the debt ceiling increase on the President, then if it fails (debt spirals totally out control) they win in 2012. Which is probably their only hope!
Well, who is asking for the raise in the debt ceiling? The Prez. Why shouldn't he be held to a higher standard?
For the simple reason that it is not the executive office that is responsible for raising revenues! This proposal is a constitutional abomination. At no point should it become a scenario where the revenues raising originates from the executive office and is then ratified by the congress!!!! It is exactly the other way around and for good reasons.
I am sure you held Bush to a higher standard every time (all 7 times) he raised the debt ceiling.
I can not imagine how the debt keeps going up fighting two wars that I am sure you wanted Kirby. What about all the wounded veterans? Don't we have a duty to take care of them.
As usual this is all the Presidents debt all by his little self so why shouldn't he be held to a higher standard.
PSST! Thurind! Can you say "Fourteenth Amendment"? When Congress is a bunch of idiots the Pres still has the authority to get the bills paid and the job done!
Thurind, there is no debt ceiling in the Constitution, therefore there is NO WAY for it to be a "constitutional abomination." The debt ceiling didn't even exist until 1917, when it came into being as part of a deal to allow WWI to go forward.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/105193.pdf
The debt ceiling has been increased 74 times since JFK was President...and NOW it's being treated like some sort of doomsday device. Do you need to know any more to realize this is nothing but a political ploy by Conservatives?
What a scenario ! Sabotage the administration of the elected President, then rush in to SAVE the country with their special interest's dictates!! Now, that's original!
That's the plan all along. Now that they've seen through what's been called the rope-a-dope political move by the president, this is their solution. This plan just creates barganing rights for the republican party. However, with all of these recall elections going on, the Republicans can pretty much assume that they'll lose some seats in congress. After that, game over teapublicans.
eejay! how about the Obama special interests? It's called the 40% who ride on government handouts of one kind or another and pay no taxes! Wanna guess who they support without thinking and without questioning where it will lead them! If they were smart they would look to their hole card. If this man gets his way they will end up right back where they started and take the rest of us into slavery with them!
The GOP isn't being honest! It really isn't "liberal" to raise taxes on the wealthiest few; that is an accusation that doesn't make sense and is only trying to create emotional support against a position that otherwise is common sense and responsible, especially when combined with spending cuts. Take emotion and name calling out of the equation and reality then dictates supporting the combined effort to cut spending and to raise revenue (taxes) ... anything else is irresponsible. Also declaring that the wealthy already pay a heavy burden of the taxes isn't an excuse to pity them, as they not only make far more than everyone else but also their increases over recent years have been really dynamic (even unreasonable) and included several tax cuts and many considerations that far outweigh anything given everyone else. Put the BS aside and rationally decide and support what is really responsible! Somehow common sense has to prevail. Besides Bush-Cheney have already proved beyond any doubt that giving more to those who already spend all they want does nothing for the economy, only makes the wealthy wealthier and solicits political support - the "trickle down" theory is a proven fraud.
Everyday i get on here and read ALL of your comments. Some of you have good talking points while others (mainly Republican/Tea party) go into attack mode. I can't help but wonder if we would still be discussing raising the debt limit if Joe Biden were president or John McCain. Of course not. What most of you don't understand is that the plan to bankrupt the country was planned out long before Obama took office, even GWB. The plan started with Karl Rove! Yes, the Bush's brainchild. Mr. Rove thought of how to spend the $5 trillion surplus left by Clinton, and send the economy down the drain. This was all a plot to privatize social security. Now all of a sudden Republicans are worried about the debt limit ARE YOU SERIOUS? Where were these concerns when GWB was in office? Both wars were unjustified, and to think he even told the nation his reasoning for going to war. Not weapons of mass destruction. Try "Of course you know this is the man who once tried to kill my daddy"-GWB (sound familiar). Now people are out of work. Now there's a war on the middle class. In 2001 i already knew what was destined to happen. Oh and by the way, i don't need to cite a reference. Those of us in the know, have been following politics long enough to know what was inteded, what was planned and what was bound to happen. Just like we know that Rick Perry eventually run for president at the last minute. Yes Rick Perry (GWB 3.0). But i'm going to wait on it. And when it happens don't say i didn't tell you so. It's the same old same old, the Republican's will pull Rick Perry out of their pocket at the last minute, then claim what a great job he's done in Texas. Please Texas is a right to work state. That's why companies migrate here. Unions are week, undocumented slave labor is rampant and you can be hired and fired at will. Again, i ask Americans Are, you Serious. Hey Fiesty! :)
Rick Perry, Teapublivan candidate for POTUS!
Tepapublivan: Tea Party, Gop and R W Evangelists.
I'm not into conspiracy theories, so won't go to that extent.
However, it is true that warnings about 9-11 were ignored, which is negligence on a serious level. It is true the "intelligence" was cherry-picked to support the unnecessary invasion of Iraq, which goes beyond negligence and loss of life even greater than 9-11. It is true that Bush & Turd Blossom Karl Rove knew the housing bubble would burst, but hoped not until after the end of their administration.
The GOP continues to win only with machinations, not merit. It is truest today.
I think it was you that used this, true patriot.
I liked Tea-Vangelist. Kinda caught all the corners of their circle.
RGiles, Are,You Serious: Your posts are a breath of fresh air today. Your post Giles does indeed give a rational argument against the GOP talking poits. AYS, your historical view hepls explain how we got the the present day impasse. My fear is that after reading the volume of comments,especially on the thread about SS,people are ignorant of the most basic facts,driven by fear and anger to the slogans of the extreme right, and totally ahistorical .
Good post Northstar,
Well said.
Not to be snarky, but what is it like up there in Minnesota under the Pawlenty shutdown? Did he shut down his paycheck too, or is that to continue unabated?
Well, aside from the fact that Pawlenty is no longer in office that is just a really smart question. Is Pawlenty, the ex governor still getting his governor paycheck?
And wasn't the legislature controlled by the dems while he was governor? So all that deficit is on both partues, ain't it?
Hey Kirby, Pawlenty was in the state legislature and then governor for 8 years. He sure is getting a state pension! Also his wife was a district court judge, she gets a great pension too.
Yes, Pawlenty had a Dem legislature. Palwlenty did close down the state in his first budget deal for about 5 days.Yes, both parties did that budget, but Pawlenty is the only one trying to parlay that experience into presidental material.
It is the Pawlenty-induced shutdown.
Who produced the deficits that made it necessary?
GOPisextinct, Our current govenor is Mark Dayton. Pawlenty( who is running for president) left MN with a 5billion gap for this new budget cycle. Pawlenty passed a balanced budget, smoke and mirrors and one time Fed. stimulus money. Dayton is not blinking. He want the Repub to present him with a total budget which includes new revenue, not just a lights on only budget. Over 22,000. state employees are out of work. Dayton and the Speaker of the House are not taking salary, but 62% of state legislators are still receivng their salaries. It is up to the individual. It looks like it will be a long haul, maybe up to a month. Bond rating already dropped to AA. Some essential services are still operating. But state parks are closed, and no lottery tickets can be sold. That really get people riled up.LOL
John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor are all crippled! Neither have the Cahunas to take on these luna-TEA! President Obama cannot guarantee monies for expenditures, but Congress can! Conniving GOP taking the debt crisis to brinkmanship. Every previous president received a "Congressional Housekeeping" Debt increase but this current 112th Congress would rather create a catastrophic event bordering on an apocalyptic dream of world depression rather than handing President Obama any debt increase! John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor have proven beyond any shadow of doubt they are the leaders of a bigoted and prejudiced minority party. The audacity of these narrow-minded complaining that the richest people are to be protected because they create jobs with lowers taxes is a slap in the face of any realist. John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor are all crippled with the TEA party holding their chain! The top dogs of the TEA/GOP parties cannot convince Americans that shielding the richest and the mega-corporations is valid in any shape or form!
Boehner says the debt ceiling is President Obama's problem, so petty and small-minded we see, especially since it is congress that holds the purse strings. Boehner demands to see the President's proposal, though we all know Paul Ryan's plan would require the debt ceiling to be raised, and would add 6 trillion in debt. Now the business community is also demanding that the debt ceiling be raised, because they aren't as stupid as the Teabaggers and understand the repercussions. The debt ceiling must be raised no matter what, and the Republican leadership has ALWAYS known that.
The Dems were willing to compromise with 83% spending cuts if Republicans would agree to 17% revenue increases in the form of closing loopholes and ending taxpayer subsidies. The Teapublicans would rather have no cuts in spending than concede to ANYTHING, even ending tax evasion and give-aways to special interests.
And in case the GOP/TP think otherwise, the Bush tax cuts will NOT be extended again, at least not for the rich. The votes will not be there. Republicans might have gotten these cuts extended by another year had they been willing to increase revenues in other ways now. So all you conservatives out there who are obsessed with tax cuts, no doubt you'll give your Republican representatives hell at the next Town Hall.
The American people see clearly that Republicans are not sincere about reducing the debt. The American people are watching the unnecessary primary in Wisconsin at the taxpayer's expense in which real Democrats are having to defeat fake "Democrats." The American people are watching the Murdoch empire's illegal activities and lack of journalistic standards exposed with each passing day.
In the meantime the Republicans are eating each other alive, the furious Tea-Vangelicals and their ignorant desire for the nation to default versus the Republican leadership who rely on campaign funds from Wall Street and the Chamber of Commerce. This is the bed they made, and these are their bed fellows, and this is the bed they must now sleep in.
McConnell is the reason most Americans hate America ! He's a bitter old man who should be told to retire ..He is a Racist and just blew it for the whole republican party that had any hope of reelection or to be elected ! America is wise to his no taxes ever for the wealthy ..he just single handily ruined the republican party with his rhetoric... its obvious to the whole world he hate's Obama not for being the president but because he is black ...I take great exception to this silly old twit ,and think he should be kicked out by the republican party! And that other moron Cantor should be kicked out next !
Someone had to say this !
Totally sick and tired of the gotcha games being played in D.C.! Time for Mitch and Friends to reach across the aisle with real solutions not their BS about tax cuts producing jobs, cut entitlements (that we have paid into for years!), we are our the foreign policy and national defense gurus (so don't think for a minute about cut defense but we must get rid of the UN because who needs to play nice with others in the sandbox).
The GOTP is all about slight of hand, Hey look, look over here at what my right hand is doing while I use my left hand to stick it to you! The really amazing part is they are getting so brazen that they are starting to think that they don't even need to veil there unscrupulous behaviors anymore.
So here we go again. If he has screwed everything else up, then play the race card. It works everytime. It's not that he is incompetent, that he is a proven liar, that he has steered this country so far from it's core values that now even the blind can see him for what he truely is. No! They must be against him because he is black. This is why race relations in this country do not seem to be improving. It's to important a tool for the liberals to give up!
CUT MEDICAID BUDGET TO THE BONE. Do not raise the debt ceiling. GOVERNMENT will SPEND more on medicaid entitlements. These programs pay for FREE Maids and Nannies for the poor, allow waste and fraud. The agencies responsible for doling out the taxpayer dollars do NOT do their jobs. Recipients do not get kicked off the MEDICAID DOLE for fraud, not putting bank accounts as assets. These agencies just let taxpayer dollars flow out of the system to keep their jobs. OIG does not investigate recipient or attendent fraud. POLICIES IN THESE PROGRAMS PROMOTE WASTE and FRAUD. STOP FREE MAIDS AND NANNIES FOR THE MEDICAID RECIPIENTS
Having just gone thru the death of my parents. The biggest fraud I saw was the doctors.
They did it in slimy ways. An example, the doctor talked my confused diabetic dad into having his toes cut off without notifying the family. Then the doctor set my father up for another operation to cut off above the ankle.
Never once had the doctor run a test to determine the blockage was in his upper thigh.
If above the ankle didn't work he told me he was going to cut below the knee and then above the knee and then the upper thigh until he reached a spot Dad would heal. This operation made good money to the doctor and he was going to do it five times. Luckily I stopped the second operation and could take dad to the VA hospital, they opened the blockage and nothing more had to be cut off.
These free maids and nannies are cheaper than sending someone to a rest home. With hospice you can die in your own home. That saves way more money for the government than sending someone to a hospital to die.
That makes sense lets get rid of the programs that save us money.
I wonder if they have no money to investigate because their budget got cut?
Fraud should be stopped it hurts everyone.
Fraudrage hurts people too.
Why is it always cut Social Programs that help people first but never, I say never cut the defense budget? Bombs before people, where is the outrage? Where are all of those so called social conservatives on this important issue. Oh yeah, to busy protesting outside Planned Parenthood and putting on the "show" every Sunday at church.
What happened to working together?
Ever since whitewater and the GOP fear that Al Gore would become President American Politics has become a quagmire.
AF, You have seen the our health care system up close and personal. You were a good advocate for your father.Medicaid is a programn that helps families get the care their loved ones need after they have exhausted their own resorces. Fraud is always a possiblity in health care, because many see it as a place for easy money.My son works as part of a team to detect fraud, mistakes in insurance claims sumitted by doctors, hospitals and other providers. Insurance companies contract with outsdie companies to review their claims. Lot of money is saved everyday by denying these improper claims.