Here we go people, the other shoe has fallen.

The GOP/TP is not interested in doing anything with the Debt Ceiling. They are going to stall and stall until this country goes down the toilet.

Yes! The President has been politically cowardly in not setting out a plan of his own.

Feisty

Coward is too mild a word for The Weeper.

Boehner is calling the President's bluff. Come on Mr. President, what is your plan? We showed you ours, even voted on it.

How about the President do something that may be politically inconvenient for a change?

'pin the blame on Obama game'!

_______________________________________________

Pin the tail on the donkey (jackass)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT'S FUNNY!!!!!!

Thanks for the laugh Nasty.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just put this on the earlier thread, in time for the collapse cowards to close down the first string. But it applies even more to this article:

The GOP/TP position in this debate is consistent with the ideology pressed by Grover Norquist and his mentor, Jack Abramaoff, for almost 30 years.

Thomas Frank, in The Wrecking Crew, documented how the ultra-right Libertarian wing of the GOP has consistently pressed to either remove or incapacitate government regulations, privatize government functions (to enrich private industry), and limit taxation of the upper classes.

Naomi Klein, in Shock Doctrine, The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, documented the way the right wing has consistently taken advantage of war, natural disaster and now recession to force their ideological programs on the country - and around the world.

And Nobel prize economist Joseph E. Stiglitz, who has recently termed the Debt Commission's proposals a "suicide pact," explained that the right-wing economic model is and has been an utter failure that caused the current crisis, in Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy.

It's increasingly clear that President Obama's economic program has been too moderate - that greater government intervention in the economy is called for, as Stiglitz outlines (and a great many other economists agree). It's also clear that the tax cuts and tax subsidies for the very wealthy and corporations in fact helped contribute directly to the economic disaster that began in December, 2007, and has followed on since. Stiglitz notes that those various policies actually created incentives for banks to offer bad loans, risky derivatives, and make poor judgements that both created the housing bubble and then blew it up in a collapse of the debt-built American consumer marketplace.

Now comes the debt ceiling debate, which is less and less about the debt ceiling, and more and more about the rigid ideological position of the Libertarian right. It is a continuation of the decades-long attempt to restructure the American nation into a cartel corporatist state like Japan. The linkage between business, lobbyists, and lawmakers has grown so extensive since the conservatives first started their campaign during the Reagan Regime that American governance indeed now looks very much like Japan - and that is a terrifying realization.

For an in-depth examination of the status of Japanese industry, government and economic structure, read Dogs and Demons, Tales from the Dark Side of Japan, by Alex Kerr. Ultimately, the story describes a system of cynical contradictions, corruption, exploitation by business interests with the venal cooperation of politicians. And it looks far, far, too much like the political operations of the American far right wing.

The debate about "raising taxes," or as others put it, about eliminating tax subsidies and favoritism for a tiny percentage of the population, as well as requiring business to actually pay some of the taxes they now legally evade, features Democrats and Republicans talking past, rather than with, each other. The Democrats are attempting to discuss a system of governance that includes some aspet of fairness; the Republicans are talking about an entirely different system of governance in an alleged "free market" environment that in fact is really open season on both private and public funds by a cartel economy. The two sides are not even any longer in the same reality.

As Stiglitz wrote, adjusting the taxes paid by the upper income earners and corporations, even during a weak economic recovery, has no effect whatsoever on job creation, or continued economic activity. The money that tax favoritism gave to the most wealthy and big business is actually diverted from the economy, and reduces the rate of growth. It is better for economic health to capture some of that wealth and put it into the national and global economies, through debt reduction, to further support expansion of economic activity. The Libertarian position instead would contract economic activity.

To even consider the potential of debt default, as many of the GOP extremists are contending, is beyond insanity. But it is actually a deliberate tactic to pursue their program of "disaster captialism," as described by Naomi Klein. There is a lot of historical evidence that a state's default leads to serious, long-lasting repercussions.

Spain defaulted on her debt three times during her Hapsburg monarchy. Ultimately it led to complete collapse of the Spanish empire, a century and a half of civil war and class warfare, and impoverishment of the nation. The interregnum of the Franco dictatorship from 1936 to 1975 changed the dynamics, but Spain even now remains a deeply divided and unstable nation.

France defaulted on her debt in the early 1700's, because of a "bubble" involving risky investment and corrupt bankers and regulators. (That sounds familiar, doesn't it?) The consequences of that, and of inept public management, an overweening, arrogant aristocracy, and gross inequality between the working and upper classes resulted in the French Revolution - and, later, Napoleonic France. Oddly enough, that description of 18th century France sounds a great deal like the right-wing program put in place, intentionally, during the Reagan and Bush I and II years. Again, see Thomas Frank for a very detailed treatment.

John Boehner is not simply playing with fire, he's swallowing gasoline and juggling torches. The debt ceiling must be raised. The alleged "current receipts" solution some here have proposed is unworkable and inadequate for a stable long-term perspective, for government operations, and for economic recovery. In addition, more, rather than less, public intervention in the economy is essential to promote a more robust recovery.

The radical right now must face the truth: America is unwilling to continue pursuing the failed policies of the Libertarians and Milton Friedman. They have caused nothing but distress and economic collapse. The future of continuing with such a program, as being pushed without relent by the Tea Party contingent in Congress, is only bleak and desperate. Recent and more distant history is uncompromising in its warnings.

"How about the President do something that may be politically inconvenient for a change?"

Regarding his intentions, he said "I will take a lot of heat from my own party for this...."

Up on current events, there, WCA??

He caved on the public option on heathcare, he caved on extending Bush tax cuts...

I think you're right DB, wca is certainly not up on current events. Or maybe he/she follows that old "never happened, revisionist history" line of thinking the right is so good at.

The republicans do not want to quid pro quo, its all or nothing for them. The president told them he would sign a bill that was reasonable but that was not good enough for these thugs. No they want it all at the expense of country. So play your silly games and who will win? Our country is so divided now I would not be surprised if we engage in another civil war. All because of the crazy rich in this country who do not think they have enough.

That's right, condemn the republicans for holding fast. They laid it all on the table weeks ago. They've said they were not going to accept a tax increase as part of the deal. Major cuts are needed because spending is out of control. Now that it's become serious, blame the republicans, oh great wise liberals. Never, never, never, ever blame the democrats...

Maybe if Obama didn't take the $1.2 Trillion in stimulus and porkulus, we wouldn't be needing a lift in the ceiling. Now that the debt ceiling needs an uptick, somehow it's all the republicans fault.

You liberals are really something else!

So in 2050, a child reads in his history book (if any are permitted by then) that Boehner, Cantor and McConnell were dicing with the world Economy in 2011.

This is the third time they've held everything hostage to benefit the wealthy this year.

These are not good guys. Cantor has 'shorts' betting that the debt ceiling will not be raised. We're in recovery from years of deregulation. Playing an out-of-touch game like this can tip us into another Great Recession or worse fast.

These 3 Prima Donnas are paid by us to govern. Seems any one of us could take the money and do a better job. It is time to be done and done with Cantor, McConnell and Boehner. We cannot ask the elderly, kids and working people to cover the Republican party's anally retentive backsides this time around. And it's time for all Americans to be outraged. Dems say No.

HEY fiesty reed head how do you like it when the game is played back on you. The problem you have is that over the last two years the Dems had control of the government and did not have the back bone to pass the budget they wanted because they knew that it would be a bomb. Maybe its time that thie President take some of the blame for what he has not done.

You're exactly right John! The dems, left's and BHO plan all along was to sit on their hands and let the repubs put their plan out there so they could pick it apart and demonize it. Now after spending like GWB on steriods and without any plan of his own Obama stands up, "acts" like a centrist and is trying to come across like he's the only rational, fiscally conservative guy out there. This is and has been just one big giant political game/chess move working towards the 2012 campaign. He's no different than most of the other scum in Washington! A lawyer and an ambitious professional politician getting wealthy and powerful along with the cronies on his side!!! 95 out of 100 of them make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination. However, I find it fascinating that the liberals are fixated on getting the affluent to fund the liberal dream. I suspect that the liberals mostly fall into the 50% who don't pay any taxes. The liberals need to get more out of the affluent so they can sit on their tails and whine that they don't have enough. Lets start taxing the bottom 50% so they can share the pain that taxpayers have to endure to fund the welfare state. When the bottom 50% see a dollar of their taxes go to Washington and it comes back to them as an entitlement of $.50, they will start to see the light. It is time for people to become self reliant and quit looking for handouts. We have institutionalized begging. Vote Democratic so you can feed at the trough. Let the Republicans and independents do the work. Why should you? You voted Democratic. Let's increase the money to fund the welfare state. I want to get a new car and a new LED T.V. so I can enjoy my idle time.

The President DID put forth a plan (which, by the way, had huge concessions included) and the republicans walked out of the room. So what do you think he should do? Capitulate? How is that right?

It's no longer about saving this nation. It's about the Republicans defeating President Obama! I'm sick of our so-called leaders. There should be an uprising to remove each and every one who refuses to compromise. What's wrong with the rich giving a little? The middle class has carried this nation long enough!!!!!

To Marilyn ... the rich giving a little? Are you serious? 41% of working americans pay no taxes, the top 5% pay 58% of all taxes ... what percent should they pay.

The government barrows 44 cents of ever dollar the spend. We have a spending problem and it needs to be cut, cut deep and fast. Raising taxes will not put another person back to work, further reduce private sector spending and make the Obama economy worse than it already is. He has already wasted $800 billion of tax payers money that did nothing and now unemployment is rising even higher and foreclosures are increasing. 1 in every 21 homes in the US is in foreclosure.

People this is serious and all Obama and the dems can do is say raise taxes. This is nuts.

I find it interesting that JAS1 can write something as innocuous as this and get collapsed...

JoAnnaSmith1 Comment collapsed by the community

Inspirational quotes:

If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader. - John Quincy Adams

Leadership does not always wear the harness of compromise. - Woodrow Wilson

I can hear you! I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you! And the people -- and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon! - George W. Bush

No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. - Abraham Lincoln

Time to eat our peas - Barack H. Obama

Yet the Nasty Redhead can write hate-filled, inflammatory comments like this and have her nastiness RESTORED! Go Figure. That says a lot about what goes on here at FirstRead now doesn't it?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, ILRestored

President Obama's problem.

Boehner is the epitome of cowardice!

He got slapped around by the tea baggers & has the treacherous leader Cantor nipping at his ankles, so what does he DO?

Rather than show some leadership, he starts playing the 'pin the blame on Obama game'!

Pathetic however, not surprising!

It's their standard M.O.!

John Boehner says that the debt ceiling is Obama's problem . But he can't raise it with out the congress giving him the permission to do so . I would like to ask MR Boehner if he is giving the President to do this . The President can't do it without the congress's say so or Kusinich will forever be running his big mouth about the President not consulting congress .I can't stand Mr kusinich anyway so lets do it with congress 's permission. MR Boehner does not want any part of raising debt ceiling even tho was raised 7 times under the Bush administration and nobody said a word .

A political etiquette lesson. The President dismisses the meetings and leaves first.

Eric Canter was rude to "walk out of the room," before the President adjourned the meeting.

Sounds to me Eric needs some lessons from Miss Manner.

Yes, maybe...

But many of us parents believe Eric just needs a good spanking and a few months of time out. JMO

What do you call admitting "I will take a lot of heat from my own party...", then asking the other side for similar guts? These assh*les are going to be the downfall of this country if they don't drop the politics, tell Norquitst to shove it, and get their asses to work for US!

I think Boehner was better suited to sweeping bar room floors, to be completly honest.

It has to be frustrating for Speaker Boehner to go into these "negotiations" with Obama day after day, and be lectured by this mistake for a president that doesn't have a clue, an idea, or any kind of a plan. The Speaker is looking for a solution while Obama is looking for more campaign rhetoric and another fund raiser. The Speaker is correct to call Obama out on his complete lack of a plan this late in the process.

President Obama's problem.

Boehner is the epitome of cowardice!

He got slapped around by the tea baggers & has the treacherous leader Cantor nipping at his ankles, so what does he DO?

Rather than show some leadership, he starts playing the 'pin the blame on Obama game'!

Pathetic however, not surprising!

It's their standard M.O.!

It is not Obama's problem.

Obama is the problem.

And that is America's problem.

Another day of the same old talking points form the GOP/TP. All you have to do is read their first post and you know what the rest of them are going to post. Save yourself some time just read the first GOP/TP post and skip the rest.

I just put this on the earlier thread, in time for the collapse cowards to close down the first string:

The GOP/TP position in this debate is consistent with the ideology pressed by Grover Norquist and his mentor, Jack Abramaoff, for almost 30 years.

Thomas Frank, in The Wrecking Crew, documented how the ultra-right Libertarian wing of the GOP has consistently pressed to either remove or incapacitate government regulations, privatize government functions (to enrich private industry), and limit taxation of the upper classes.

Naomi Klein, in Shock Doctrine, The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, documented the way the right wing has consistently taken advantage of war, natural disaster and now recession to force their ideological programs on the country - and around the world.

And Nobel prize economist Joseph E. Stiglitz, who has recently termed the Debt Commission's proposals a "suicide pact," explained that the right-wing economic model is and has been an utter failure that caused the current crisis, in Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy.

It's increasingly clear that President Obama's economic program has been too moderate - that greater government intervention in the economy is called for, as Stiglitz outlines (and a great many other economists agree). It's also clear that the tax cuts and tax subsidies for the very wealthy and corporations in fact helped contribute directly to the economic disaster that began in December, 2007, and has followed on since. Stiglitz notes that those various policies actually created incentives for banks to offer bad loans, risky derivatives, and make poor judgements that both created the housing bubble and then blew it up in a collapse of the debt-built American consumer marketplace.

Now comes the debt ceiling debate, which is less and less about the debt ceiling, and more and more about the rigid ideological position of the Libertarian right. It is a continuation of the decades-long attempt to restructure the American nation into a cartel corporatist state like Japan. The linkage between business, lobbyists, and lawmakers has grown so extensive since the conservatives first started their campaign during the Reagan Regime that American governance indeed now looks very much like Japan - and that is a terrifying realization.

For an in-depth examination of the status of Japanese industry, government and economic structure, read Dogs and Demons, Tales from the Dark Side of Japan, by Alex Kerr. Ultimately, the story describes a system of cynical contradictions, corruption, exploitation by business interests with the venal cooperation of politicians. And it looks far, far, too much like the political operations of the American far right wing.

The debate about "raising taxes," or as others put it, about eliminating tax subsidies and favoritism for a tiny percentage of the population, as well as requiring business to actually pay some of the taxes they now legally evade, features Democrats and Republicans talking past, rather than with, each other. The Democrats are attempting to discuss a system of governance that includes some aspet of fairness; the Republicans are talking about an entirely different system of governance in an alleged "free market" environment that in fact is really open season on both private and public funds by a cartel economy.

The two sides are not even any longer in the same reality.

As Stiglitz wrote, adjusting the taxes paid by the upper income earners and corporations, even during a weak economic recovery, has no effect whatsoever on job creation, or continued economic activity. The money that tax favoritism gave to the most wealthy and big business is actually diverted from the economy, and reduces the rate of growth. It is better for economic health to capture some of that wealth and put it into the national and global economies, through debt reduction, to further support expansion of economic activity. The Libertarian position instead would contract economic activity.

To even consider the potential of debt default, as many of the GOP extremists are contending, is beyond insanity. But it is actually a deliberate tactic to pursue their program of "disaster captialism," as described by Naomi Klein. There is a lot of historical evidence that a state's default leads to serious, long-lasting repercussions.

Spain defaulted on her debt three times during her Hapsburg monarchy. Ultimately it led to complete collapse of the Spanish empire, a century and a half of civil war and class warfare, and impoverishment of the nation. The interregnum of the Franco dictatorship from 1936 to 1975 changed the dynamics, but Spain even now remains a deeply divided and unstable nation.

France defaulted on her debt in the early 1700's, because of a "bubble" involving risky investment and corrupt bankers and regulators. (That sounds familiar, doesn't it?) The consequences of that, and of inept public management, an overweening, arrogant aristocracy, and gross inequality between the working and upper classes resulted in the French Revolution - and, later, Napoleonic France. Oddly enough, that description of 18th century France sounds a great deal like the right-wing program put in place, intentionally, during the Reagan and Bush I and II years. Again, see Thomas Frank for a very detailed treatment.

John Boehner is not simply playing with fire, he's swallowing gasoline and juggling torches. The debt ceiling must be raised. The alleged "current receipts" solution some here have proposed is unworkable and inadequate for a stable long-term perspective, for government operations, and for economic recovery. In addition, more, rather than less, public intervention in the economy is essential to promote a more robust recovery.

The radical right now must face the truth: America is unwilling to continue pursuing the failed policies of the Libertarians and Milton Friedman. They have caused nothing but distress and economic collapse. The future of continuing with such a program, as being pushed without relent by the Tea Party contingent in Congress, is only bleak and desperate. Recent and more distant history is uncompromising in its warnings.

bob-1805084

It is not Obama's problem.

Obama is the problem.

Correction:

Obama IS the President...

show a little respect for my country and her commander-in-chief please.

President Obama is a great leader and the Republicans have no one to lead. Instead they will lead their party off of a cliff.

By the way, bring it on you collapse chickens.

Mo... that is similar to another day of the same old Liberal talking points...

for example... YOUR ARE A RACIST!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not as stupid as yo uthink

Correction:

Obama IS the President...

show a little respect for my country and her commander-in-chief please.

You mean like the 'respect' the libbies showed to GWB? That kind of 'respect'?

Sorry, GWB never earned any respect. How can you respect anyone that is no smarter than the average person?

..... as stupid as yo uthink

If you love and respect your country, why did you vote for a guy that wanted to transform it? (Don't know the definition of transform?)

You believe in the dreams of his Kenyan father as opposed to the dreams of our founding fathers?

You respect a guy that throws his grandmother under the bus, lies about his dying mother, spends $10 million in stimulus to buy assault rifles for Mexican drug cartels to kill poor Mexicans and US Border agents .......

A guy wantonly destroying our energy industry, creating incredible suffering for the poor of the country .... on and on.

Respect?

For what ..... ruining the country? Not a chance.

Respect for the Office of President of the United States?

Yea, I do ........ certainly a lot more than Obama has for it.

bob:

Really, stick with the numbers. It gives you the appearance of sanity.

What Bob?

YOU would rather have W in charge?

Guess THAT shows the world where you are - politically, spiritually, economically, financially, mentally, ecumenically....

what do you expect from pledgers. 14th Amendment, please.

DRIVE BY... my Gosh... i ABSOLUTELY agree... the debt ceiling has become a political football. This should have nothing to do with politics. it has to do with the countries abilities to pay its debts. it isnt a democrat, republican, liberal,teaparty, gay, black, white, issue... it is an AMERICA issue.

I really feel the pubs want this country to go to hell so they can say told you so. then they can get out their guns, and pull off the coup they have been wanting to do so badly. Boehner's brains been fried from the tanning bed he sleeps in. i cant even comment on the rest of that...those... well. thats it.

Way to go sickofthebickering you finally admit all your post are nothing but GOP/TP talking points. You kinda hung up on that racist thing are't you sotb.

You've sure got the hate thing going strong this morning Bob.

Job1

Sorry, GWB never earned any respect. How can you respect anyone that is no smarter than the average person?

Ladies and Gentlemen... Therein lies the problem...

Liberals don't respect the 'average' person.

No. It is congresses job to come up with legislation. In Obama's speech he said Congress needs to do its job. He wouldn't sign a bill that puts off the problem until later.

Why is it "bold" to point out the President has not proposed his own plan?

Mitch McConnell seems to be saying he prefers to hold the country hostage until Obama is out of office, whatever the cost to America - no compromises.

"I have little question that as long as this President is in the Oval Office, a real solution is unattainable. ... This was not an easy decision for me."

just2reason...

The right has submitted a plan. Neither the senate or obama has presented any counter offers other than rhetoric. Do you wish that the american people will fall again for a pelosi style of rhetoric that legislation need not be read to be signed?

One little fact that many are choosing to ignore is that the potus has veto power over any legislation. It would be very helpful to have a hardcopy plan giving his EXACT objectives.

So in 2050, a child reads in his history book (if any are permitted by then) that Boehner, Cantor and McConnell were dicing with the world Economy in 2011.

This is the third time they've held everything hostage to benefit the wealthy this year.

These are not good guys. Cantor even has 'shorts' betting that the debt ceiling will not be raised. We're in recovery from years of deregulation. Playing an out-of-touch game like this can tip us into another Great Recession or worse fast.

These 3 Prima Donnas are paid by us to govern. Seems any one of us could take the money and do a better job. It is time to be done and done with Cantor, McConnell and Boehner. We cannot ask the elderly, kids and working people to cover the Republican party's anally retentive backsides this time around. And it's time for all Americans to be outraged. Dems say NO.

M0-681343

You kinda hung up on that racist thing are't you sotb.

Just trying to fit in with the regular crowd here, Mo... ;-)

writerfool-3737602

DRIVE BY... my Gosh... i ABSOLUTELY agree... the debt ceiling has become a political football. This should have nothing to do with politics. it has to do with the countries abilities to pay its debts.

excuse me Fool...

But the debt ceiling has nothing to do with our country's (not countries.... we are not plural) ability to pay its debts... it has to do with our country's ability to continue borrowing... something we desperately do NOT need to do right now.

What we need to do right now is not put ourselves deeper in debt and pay on our already out of control debt! Hand a child a gun and see what happens... the debt ceiling is a the gun and the dems are the child.

For those who seriously care about our economic issues and think about how to deal with them - as opposed to the rote cant of the entirely idiotic right-wing ideologues - there is an excellent article from TIME -

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2076568-1,00.html

Fundamentally, it names five "myths" about the economy that hurt serious discussion and deliberation. The article also proposes several interesting ideas for addressing the basis of economic recovery and growth.

Absolutly NONE of the Libertarian credo is of any relevance at all to dealing with the problems.

hey Odumbo, cut Boneheads salary in half, and do the same to the rest of congress and the politicians robbing the people. That will definitely save some cash and put some money back in the taxpayers pockets.

Bonehead is nothing more than a politician welfare recipient. He lives off the people's hard earned cash. All these politicians and government need to be tossed to the curb. They do more harm than good for our country and the people. We don't really need them. They need us and our tax dollars to pay for their expensiveve lifestyle of living.

Time to close their bank accounts and cash flow. That is the first step to recovery in America. Ousting the crooked politicians and government to the curb.

I realize Obama said he would be willing to take heat from his party, But I have learned from Obama that it is best to look at his actions and ignore what he says.

Unless you are making $250.000.00 a year or more, nobody in either party has suggested you will pay any more personal taxes.

The President has stated quite clearly that he is willing to negotiate, and compromise for the good of the nation.

Speaker Boehner has tried to speak to the GOP and find Congressmen who will compromise for the good of the nation and failed.

I see Boehner returning to the comfort of saying no.

Greed Over Patriotism.

The job description of Congressman is a statesman who compromises for the good of the nation.

Have we unintentionally elected Kings and Queens to the US House of representatives?

I do not think that George Washington would have been happy with any Congressman who continually repeats “My way or the highway”. In fact I am sure President Washington the only man ever offered to be King of the United States, and turned it down, would have little issue with publically calling out these “Kings” of the Congress for their arrogant attitudes on running the USA.

Ironically, Sean Duffy, the Congressman who's living in his office because he can't afford two residences would be EXCLUDED from tax increases; but he is on the record as voting to not raise taxes and as signing the Grover Loyalty Pledge.

You simply can't make this stuff up. Even the poor congressional folks don't vote in their own economic interests,...no wonder the sheep get in line to follow, eh?

Another day with angry liberals berating the republicans. I'm beginning to wonder what makes liberals so angry. Anger is a strange emotion, void of rationality. Seeing so much anger, one begs the question... are angry liberals rational? Nope. Some liberals don't get angry so they have a much more reasonable stance. Angry liberals act like children. Reading some of the remarks above, I swear the angry liberals must be below teen years in age. That is possible since this board is accessable by anyone...

The conclusion I have come to is... to argue with an angry liberal is to argue with a child...

Bob: YOU poisoned that well. Remember death panels?

Anyway, you lie when you say Obama has not proposed a plan. First he proposed a plan with 2T in cuts, then he proposed a plan with 4T in cuts. Boner is the one who said NO DEAL to both plans. Now it is up to the right wing to come up with a plan to put on the table. I doubt they will.

Here is the republican plan: STOP SPENDING! Government is too big! And, Keep your government hands off my Social Security and Medicare!

I am going to be laughing so hard Aug 3 when social security checks do not go out.

Bob,

You need help.

Bad deal. Every "deal" with Democrats to cut spending and raise taxes only gets the latter, the former is a mirage.

$4 trillion in phantom Washington spending "cuts", accounting gimmicks, and effective years in the future, no doubt.

The $1 trillion in tax increases will no doubt be immediate and real, however.

Think it’s time to make Mr. Boehner a one term speaker.

Get Obama a Congress that puts the good of the country first in his next term.

Ah, susan, your post was music for my ears.... eyes? ears....

it becomes a paralizing thought when this becomes a tit for tat...... watching what is happening is like watching two trains on a collision course with no way to stop them.

i cant see them coming to a meeting of the minds on this.......austerity i quess..... scares the crapola out of me.... seems like it scares you too... for me, i dont understand why every american in their right mind isnt scared and out in the streets.

Get a clue....you think a liberal is ever going to be ready to look at both sides of the coin? And what exactly has Obama done for me except eveything I have been opposed to ...

we need balance and we don't need this leftis view....go hug a tree.

...And Bob -

You are sounding just as bad as Boehmer with these posts.

The POTUS HAS developed and presented a GREAT plan, but people like Boehmer oppose any and every thing he attempts to accomplish. Certainly appears very racist! What is the matter? Just can not stand a successful black man in the oval office? BETTER GET OVER IT NOW!

Well sick-

I have asked on here repeatedly when your type make this excuse:

Your intense hatred of President Obama is due to his "policies"? Well please share with the world exactly WHICH policies cause such hatred and why. Otherwise, it prima facie seems to be racial.

Can you explain so it can be understood? But PLEASE, no RNC talking points, platform planks, rhetorical spin nor excuses. Tell us all WHY YOU hate so much please.

Otherwise the "race card" WILL "be played" because it seems like fact. If facts ruffle you feathers so much, too bad. Truth is truth.

Bring it on collapse chickens.

I'll take that-

There was the stimulous bill, which wasted almost a trillion dollars.

Before that, there was the pork laden omnibus spending bill of 2009- that the democrats passed because they waited on a budget until after the election.

There is HCR, which a majority want repealed, that got forced on an unwilling public.

There is the war in Libya- you know, the one where we are deposing non-hostile bombs. I guess we paint little smiley faces on them before they get dropped.

There are the foreign policy failures- throwing allies under random buses in the hopes of currying favor with nations antagonistic toward us.

You need more? Cause there is plenty.

The man is a disastrous president and despicable human being who even lied about his dying mother fighting her health insurer. That has nothing to do with skin color.

no joe, no bo, nj

Nice litany of irrelevant nonsense that has nothing to do with the debt ceiling. Nada.

Boehner said: This debt-limit increase is his problem.

The GOP is unwilling to negotiate. Party before the good of the country. This goes way beyond negotiating posturing. This is way beyond politics.

The Speaker of the House, the GOP controlled House, has said this in not a GOP problem. The House needs to vote on it ..inconsequential detail of course....but not his problem. The Speaker has decided that the GOP has been absolved from governing this country and would allow a Constitutional crisis in this fragile economy rather than compromise. Great choice.

At this point I'd say, screw it, let's default. Yes, I know the consequences. Let the American people decide who is a t fault.....they have already voiced their opinion for a compromise....and let them take their revenge come 2012.

Ira, the question asked was "which policies". I answered.

As to the debt, Obama went on the record yesterday as to his intentions- he wants to get something, anything, done, so that he can campaign on more stimulous spending, which he intends to call "investment". If that doesn't prove that he thinks people are idiots, I don't know what does.

It also proves that he is either incapable or unwilling to learn from failure.

Tell me again why I should take him seriously? I mean, other than as a threat to the very existence of this country and/or allies?

I don't know Ira, seems like NoJo is spot on.

By way of example - the feds take in about 18% of GDP, which has been relatively consistent for a long tome. Yet Obama [he's the boss, applesauce] spends 25%.

And that Mi Amigo, contributes directly to the need to raise the ceiling.

SO AGAIN: this is all negotiation. Until there is a deal, there is no deal. It matters not what is said by who about what.

Just wait, there will be a deal. It will such, you will complain. We all will.

Then it's back to the real issues - the economy is in the toilet. Obama is making it worse.

He is a one term dude.

You need more? Cause there is plenty.

We need something of substance - the rules said NO RNC TALKING POINTS, PLATFORM PLANKS, RHETORICAL SPIN OR EXCUSES, or didn't you read? Such fantasy is ALL you presented here - are you certain you want to "take that?"

The man is a disastrous president and despicable human being who even lied about his dying mother fighting her health insurer.

More of the same, but tell me: you assert he "lied about his dying mother" and that makes him dispicable? How would you feel if he snorted cocaine, then took off his clothes and danced on the bar? What if he had deserted his military post in order to go broker an oil deal? If he set up a corporation that cost a bunch of widdows and retirees their life savings and pensions, pocketed the money then allowed the corp to declare bankruptcy and go defunct, what would THAT make him in your eyes? And finally, if lying about his mother causes your intense hatred of this man, what is and was your opinion of George W. Bush? Please TELL THE WORLD and answer truthfully and clearly unless you ARE a racist or a hippocrite please. We would truly like to understand you. Thank you.

We would truly like to understand you

Thanks anyway but, I'll take a pass!

The regulars around here know more than care to about the serial LIAR from NJ...

She couldn't tell the truth if someone came along & notarized her tongue!

no joe, no bo, nj

Tell me again why I should take him seriously?..

You mean other than the fact that he IS the President of the United States and head of the Executive Branch of Government?

What you consider failure, and there have been some, the economy of the US did not collapse as it was about to. Obama did that. You may not have liked his method, but everything except the job market has recovered. When business starts to invest and that will happen when there is economic certainty, the job market will turn. If you want to learn from failure, may I respectfully suggest you read up on what exacerbated the Great Depression. Hint: It was that the government did not put sufficient amounts of money into the economy to stabilize it. Has Hoover not taken a let the chips fall where they may attitude the Depression might have been avoided. When he realized his mistake, it was too late. That's the lesson the the Great Depression and the stimulus, with all its faults was an attempt to not make that same mistake again.

As for the debt negotiations. You can't negotiate with yourself, take 2. What does the GOP unwillingness to talk tell you? Seems like if he can get some long-term fixes to the debt, rehab our social entitlements, get some tax reform including lowering the corporate tax rate that the problems would be off the table for the 2012 election and beyond. No GOP talking points....no deal now. The GOP is concerned about 2012 and not the good of the country.

Feisty:

'Preciate the heads up - I'll keep it in mind.

Someone posted they were going to go watch the space walk where something was being accomplished - think I'll get off here and go watch the grass grow since that is the same as watching what the Repub House has been doing, only more exciting.

Thanks!

NoJo:

You really have to work on some new material. You keep spouting the same lies over and over and over. We are tired of debunking them over and over and over.

If there was a picture of unmitigated hate in the dictionary I am 100% positive it would be your mug shot. Your life must really suck to be filed with so much hate.

Ira Lapin

no joe, no bo, nj

Tell me again why I should take him seriously?..

You mean other than the fact that he IS the President of the United States and head of the Executive Branch of Government?

Sorry Ira but that lame excuse doesn't seem to matter to the people above who said GWB didn't deserver any respect just becasue he was 'no smater than the average person."

Apparently the man that occupies the office of the presidency does NOT deserve respect for that position alone... (right Job1?)

'Preciate the heads up - I'll keep it in mind.

Anytime!

The poor NJ nut job is known around these parts as 'jack of all trades and MASTER of none'! ;o)

Don't be gone too long - you kick some serious butt with the right wing nut jobs!

I like your style!

PS: If you really want to have some fun - follow one of hers links, 99% of the time they prove her to be the 'fibber' she is...

Apples and oranges Sick=

see # 4.10 above. Big, BIG difference between the two, and President Obama has not attempted to fulfill a personal agenda with the very lives of some 5,000 American soldiers.

and Thanks Feisty! Look forward to more soon.

SickOfTheBickering

Apparently the man that occupies the office of the presidency does NOT deserve respect for that position alone...

...and that's what you took away from that post? Incredible.

BTW....you respect the office and not the man. He is the elected leader of the US.

Ira...

Its nice that you can selectively quote me...

Perhaps you should read the posts above by Job1 and OhSoVeryStupid?

SUCK IT!

Boehner claims the debt ceiling is President Obama's problem. How stupid, the President canNOT raise the debt ceiling, only Congress can. The House must pass the legislation first, then the Senate and only then can the President sign it into law.

Jody: I have a feeling that you are an intelligent, well read person. You must have read the Constitution and understand it. Must feel like you are the one sane person there in Iowa, surrounded by Republicans.

The republicans are going to push this country into a depression - because they think they can win the White House next year - that is the only thing they care about and the profits they can make while doing it.

I wonder when the last time was - that the GOP actually cared about this country?

Well President Obama - get some damn brass balls and let the GOP cause the first US default on it's obligations - then the GOP and Tea Party will cease to get support and we can move this country forward and leave the trash behind.

Typical liberal response... play the race card!

SickOfTheBickering

Typical liberal response... play the race card!

good god i was joking, i guess liberals can joke and conservators can't.

That's really all they got after they run out of cut and paste.

Just the facts as they appear to voters...

Sorry if you don't like it.

Really Jeff... you were 'joking'...

sure didn't sound funny to me.

SickOfTheBickering

Really Jeff... you were 'joking'...

sure didn't sound funny to me.

that because your a consertavie and they Only laugh when they take food away from the old and very young.

OOOOOO..... way to CONTRIBUTE to the disucussion there Einstein! (You have been found out for being the RACIST that you are with your little 'joke' above).

BTW... your libberal willingness to keep the less fortunate dependant upon your hand-outs is nothing less than modern-day slavery! SUCK IT!

And your willingness to throw people to the wolves is nothing less than dishonorable, much like your slave owning ancestors.

for someone claiming to be sick of the bickering, SOB - you certainly contribute more than your fair share to it,...eh?

If you think the hand out is so lucrative, you try living on it for awhile. Poverty Perpetuation is a REPUBLICAN trademark. Just look what they're doing to the middle class. And be sure to check out the average wages in the red states,...Republicans just can't wait for the willing to work for ANY pay crowd to sign on to more of their BS.

SickOfTheBickering

that because your a consertavie and they Only laugh when they take food away from the old and very young.

BTW... your libberal willingness to keep the less fortunate dependant upon your hand-outs is nothing less than modern-day slavery! SUCK IT!

BTW...your Conservative willingness, to keep those more fortunate dependant upon out government hand-outs is nothing less than modern-day slavery!!!!!!! god help those rich corporations i hope they can continue survive on the tax cuts, they may have to give up that trip around the world or the 10 million dollar bonus!!!!

:-)

Hey Jeff...

That 'evil corporation' line is yet another left-wing talking point... you know like the racist one we discussed earlier. (MO would love you XOXOXOX)

But hey... nice try buddy ;-)

(NOT)

FrankH, Louisville,Ky

And your willingness to throw people to the wolves is nothing less than dishonorable, much like your slave owning ancestors.

WOW! Now my ancestors were slave owners? REALLY? Who forgot to tell me that?

Frank... you are a true dumbass! My ancestors move over here at the turn of the 20th century from Italy and raised 5 kids in a two room house with dirt floors. Their slaves must have lived on the front porch! (JACKASS!)

BULL! RNC rhetorical fantasy and talking point.

Careful there Bill,

The libbies out there will completely ignore your message and focus on the fact that you said he doubled the national debt... he REALLY only increased it 40% from $10T to over $14T. (as if that is not bad enough.)

Nonetheless... your message is a true one and they will call you a racist for pointing it out. :-)

yeah... it was Reagan who TRIPLED it, remember? Your wingnut poster boy.

Liar!

President Obama did not double the national debt. He put ALL that isht on the books that your boy Bush had in a lockbox.

If Obama could put that isht back in the box. Bam! problem solved.

There are a lot of dumb Americans who are so blined by bigotry and hatred that they believe everything McConnel and his crowd tell them.

The President went so far as to tell the Republicans "I like your plan, just put a "little" revenue on the table and we are outta here. They are such ass-oles they walked away from their own plan. This is only about the fifth time that the President has agreed with them on a policy and they have said "nevermind."

They will rot in hell for taking this country through this bull$$it unnecessarily!!!

Not once in seven years did we have to put up with this nonsense when it time for Bush to raise the debt ceiling. Now all of sudden we have to re-write the consitiution and solvel ALL of the debit problems to get a vote from the Republicans!!!

You see Bill?

I told you they would pounce on you. Thank you Sheila,MD. (feel her pain and anger?)

Sheila - you're 100% correct!

Bill's pants are on fire!

"Obama did not double the debt in one year. The debt owed to the public was $6.3 trillion the day he took office. A year later, it was $7.8 trillion, and as of June 1, it was $9.7 trillion. That's a huge increase, to be sure, but nothing close to a doubling, either in Obama's first year or in his first two-and-a-half years. The same holds true when looking at the total outstanding debt, which includes both the public debt and money the government owes to itself. That figure was $10.6 trillion on Jan. 20, 2009; a year later, it was $12.3 trillion, and it’s $14.3 trillion today."

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/obamas-bumbles/

They never grow tired of barking the bullsh!t! No matter how many times their proven to be bold faced liars!

Deleted my post . . . Feisty beat me to it!

Sick of Bickering:

First of all . . . if ya'll stop lying, I'll stop correcting you.

Second, President Obama has spent what he HAD to to avert the sh!tstorm left to him by conservative charlatans. And you know it. It takes some very #$@#ed up policies to simultaneously collapse the housing, job, and stock market, and that is EXACTLY what voo doo economics did for us.

And now ya'll wanna pretend to care about "spending", after ya'll clowns turned a surplus into a deficit, didn't pay for two wars, lied about oil revenues paying for Iraq, all while CUTTING revenue?

Who can increase expenses and CUT revenue and NOT have deficit?

You folks are absolutely ridiculous.

Deleted my post . . . Feisty beat me to it!

I'm honored to be your wing woman Nash! ;o)

I think it's time for some *popcorn* & some ice cold kool-aid...

Gosh Bill, I guess that's why people refer to you as liar liar, pants on fire.

Festiy:

I'll take the popcorn and some of what ever Bill Thomas is drinking . . . now that is some powerful s#!+.

lol

Where were you when the Republicans spent one trillion “off the books” dollars in a useless war in iraq, cut taxes and lost 4 million jobs, then added to domestic spending by passing an expensive perscription drug plan?

What have the Republican negotiators contributed to the table? The democrats have offered spending cuts and Republicans has offered "No New Taxes". Where is the solution? Can anyone tell me what has the GOP offered to do.

Did someone mention a conservative sh!tstorm, did Boehner's head finally explode.

You know, I keep reading these Grover Norguist talking points and I want to puke. We have had 30+ years of republican economics and look where we are? There is empirical data showing the abject failure of trickle down economics and the "starve the beast" philosophy. There have been a myriad of non partisan PHD economists that have constantly stated that tax cuts have no impact on job growth and shown the numbers, it's Econ 101 but there are folks in this chat that defy the truth - numbers don't lie, politicians and partisans dispute facts. Our founding fathers warned of career politicians and the danger of having them. Term limits for all politicians. What you right wingers and tea-party don't get is that the Obama deal is actually a win for you - 75% cuts and 25% closing of tax loopholes which are really just republican "pork". Geez folks, look at the facts not ideology for once in your lives. But who cares about the truth, you want Rick Perry as your next president, just what we need another Bush clone...

Mav-3674058,

You're absolutely right about trickle down economics. But please call it by its new more fitting name--trick down economics.

Every day it is the same thing with the same people on the right. The same lies that have been debunked probally a hundred times now are still being pushed upon the public by the same people that created the problems.

People the stimulus did work, check it out yourself. Also a large part of the stimulus was tax cuts that 95% of the people visiting this board got a piece of.

President Obama inherited a 1.3 Trillion Dollar deficit on day one when he walked into office. Of the current 1.48 Trillion Dollar deficit about 424 Billion is the Bush Tax Cuts, about 128 Billion in unspent Stimulus money and a large part of the the rest is from two unfunded wars (Bush) the unfunded Drug Bill (Bush) and other bills that the previous administration ran up that Americans are still paying on and no matter who takes office in 2012 will also be still paying on.

The GOP/TP is not going to do anything between now and 2012 to move this country forward. It is not going to happen just look around you on what the GOP/TP is doing or better yet NOT DOING - like creating jobs, helping the economy or improving education. All things they ran on in 2010.

No people, President Obama is not perfectand has made some mistakes (but he is the only one that is doing anything to move this country forward). One of them was to trust the honesty and integrity of the GOP/TP. We all seen how that misguided trust has worked out. They stabbed him in the back every chance they got.

Diane:

It is always the same people NoJo, Ben, Bobby ####'s, JS1 and about half a dozen others that keep writing the same lies over and over. Instead of putting up any new ideas you will get talking points. Just go through their posts. They whine like little children, complain about everything but do nothing. Just like the GOP/TP House. All talk and very little else.

They have this mentalty of speaking great rhetoric but they are mighty short on providing any deeds at all that support their big mouths.

President Obama has put his political career on the line this week to do what is right and pissing off many democrats in the process. What has the GOP/TP done?? Nothing. Boehner has caved in to the radical right (that toad Cantor, who is planning on how to be the Speaker of the House) and we are going to pay for it big time.

So, Dianne...

Why doesn't President Obama embrace Simpson-Bowles?

It might actually get him out of the mess he's in.

Just so you don't forget the topic, Diane...

Why doesn't President Obama endorse, and vigorously campaign for, the Plan of the bipartisan debt commission he created by his own executive order?

Why, indeed...

Eh, Diane?

Isn't it funny how Mitch McConnell says "... this was not an easy decision for me", like he just reached that decision lately! When we know that the President had hardly moved his family to the WH, and Rush Limbaugh had already given the directive to all republican office holders as to what their immediate and only agenda would be--stop Obama, and Mcconman immediately picked up the directive from the boss and ran with it!!

Andy M:

Mr. Magoo and Bonehead said from the very beginning they were going to do whatever it takes to make Our President fail and never to compromise one inch. This is the only promsie to date they have kept. They have literally broken every other promise to America.

I do not remember them campaigning on cutting jobs, cutting education, breaking the unions, disenfranchising American Citizens from voting, trashing abortion rights and a bevy of other things.

They are hypocrites and liars and they are not going to change.

yeah, a lot of what was talked about yesterday is that GOP will not accept anything and the Dems are not going to buy off on a lot of the compromises the POTUS has tried to offer up like cuts to medicare and SS, talk about being between a rock and a hard place

Let's remember that 5 trillion plus 2 trillion (hangover) = 7 came from W Bush.

Job1, so what's your point? Even if that were true (I think your numbers are off), does that some how give Obama and the Dems license to create even more debt than was ever dreamed of in the Bush era, by continued massive deficit spending, failure to pay down the debt , refusal to balance the budget and enact a Balanced Budget Amendment?

The blame Bush argument has run its course. The continued problems now rest squarely on the shoulders of Mr. Obama and the Dems that controlled Congress for four years. Congress controls the purse strings, not the President. The President is supposed to provide leadership for his party to get them to do the right thing for the citizens of this country, not what might be good for his reelection prospects.

The current Congress is doing what they were sent to Washington to do, STOP THE DEFICIT SPENDING!!!!

correction. it should read; "still leaves US with a $10 trillion plus debt." in post 16 above. The deficits are still projected to run at $1.3 trillion a year under Obama's spending plans.

BINGO!

You got it Pat! Give a child a gun and POW!

Raisig the debt ceiling will do NOTHING to solve our problems. NOTHING! WE NEED TO STOP SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE!

The main point of contention is the issue of tax increases and the two schools of thought are:

1. raise taxes on the 'rich' (those dirty dogs) and we instantly increase revenue.
2. don't raise taxes on ANYONE and let them put that money back into the economy to stimulate growth.

Point 1 is well taken and in the short term will raise revenue. But... if the 'rich' (those dirty dogs) get sick of that lop-sided taxation and take their money and move somewhere else... where are we left standing?

Point 2 only works if everyone (who is now not paying more taxes) spends that money. If they do business grows and the economy benefits.

What say we try point 2 for a period of time... if it does not work try point 1... if that does not work we are all screwed so what does it matter.

Sick: We've been doing number 2 for the last 11 years, and all we have to show for it is a lot of number 2. Try not to step in it.