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Subscribe to RSSBy msnbc.com's Tom Curry: In a tweet Monday morning, freshman Republican Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin asked, “If the President was serious about reforming tax code, why would he want a trillion dollars in new taxes?”
The answer from Obama at his press conference: he wants more revenue so he can both avoid having to make cuts in programs that would hurt lower- and middle-income people -- and so he can simultaneously reduce deficits and government borrowing.
But Obama stressed a crucial point Monday: more revenue doesn’t necessarily mean higher income tax rates. More revenue can come from tax reform.
Obama had been proposing higher tax rates on upper-income people since he campaigned for president in 2008. And he succeeded in last year’s health care reform bill in raising Medicare taxes on people with income in excess of $200,000, a tax increase which will raise $87 billion over the next ten years.
But taking his cue from last December’s report from the Bowles-Simpson commission which he appointed, Obama reiterated Monday that he’s willing to give up his demand for higher income tax rates on top earners -- in return for scrapping or curtailing deductions and credits.
Bowles and Simpson say such an approach would raise more revenue than the current tax code, partly by getting rid of some of the inefficiency and cost of compliance in the current code.
The increased revenue could also come partly from a less complex tax system leading to faster economic growth. But with lower tax rates and fewer deductions, the net result would be some taxpayers paying more in taxes than they do right now.
The caveat, as Obama signaled in his press conference: any redesigned tax code would need to be “sufficiently progressive.” Mutual agreement on the definition of that term would likely be the toughest nut for Republicans and the president to crack.
A pertinent fact has gone mostly unnoticed in this tax debate – and it’s cause for a little optimism.
The Congressional Budget Office reported last week that tax revenues for the first three quarters of this fiscal year were 8.5 percent higher than in the same period last year and individual income taxes, which is what the government most relies on, showed a gain of 24 percent.
These higher revenues are being generated not by higher tax rates but by an increase in incomes and from more people working: according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 242,000 more people were working last month than in June of 2010. (Yes, that’s even though 14 million people looking for jobs and are unable to find them.)
Tax revenues are recovering – even if they’re still not at the level they were in 2007. At this point in fiscal year 2007, the government had collected $885 billion in individual income tax revenue; that compares to about $814 billion so far this fiscal year.
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Tax rates are the lowest they've been in 60 years & it's still not enough to satisfy the insatiable!
We were promised back in December, if the Bush tax cuts were extended, it would remove the uncertaintly business was complaining about...
We ALL see how well that worked out for us!
The curtain has been pulled back & America is waking up to the FACT this is about one thing and one thing only...
Seeing the President fail along with America!
Totally irrelevant.
Spending is higher than EVER.
Revenues are about what they have always been.
Either we can, or we cannot live within our means. If we can, great. If not, we are Greece.
Plus, Obama has already failed, even by jis own account. Just look back what he said as a candidate. And even if we apply what he said last year.
You just can't sugar coat it. His own standards. Dude just is not up for the job.
Oh and it is so nice to see France is done with Libya too. Just great.
Anyone believe Obama? Anyone think he has any intention to reduce the deficits he's running? Anyone at all?
If the GOP had not won the House, we'd have $1.8 trillion dollar deficits, a $17 trillion debt ceiling, and Uncle Obama spending it as fast as he could.
Here's what you can't sugar coat Spanky - the hard, plain, unvarnished truth. The President's "failure" tracks to three primary sources - all deal with identity politics.
One group hates Obama for the color of his skin. To deny that means you live in a cave.
One group hates Obama because he is a Democrat/Commie/Fascist/liberal/Marxist.
The right-wing extremists in the G.O.P. have forced the McConnell's, Boehner's, Hatch's - the third group - to pull to the far, far, far right, going so far as to make it clear they will sacrifice the nation to see Obama fail.
That's the long and the short of it. All the claptrap, BS, and spin cannot and will not change the fact that the balance can only be balanced if four variables snap into place. The first and most important is that voters must demand that the other three variables be accepted as fact, because they ARE FACTS. Spending must be cut. Revenues must be increased. Fraud, waste, and abuse must be eliminated.
It can be done. It's time to stop playing games in Washington, D.C.
Well golly there Dave - I must live in a cave cause I couldn't care less what color the man is. The facts are that he sucks are the running the country thing, especially the economic part.
The only long or short part I care about is the tanking economy and failing employment, real estate and deficit issues.
Those failures are facts.
Then again, I hated Jimmy "malaise" Carter, and it had nothing to do with the fact he was a peanut farmer. But they tried to bring that up too.
Sorry bro - Obama just doesn't have the chops. Come on, even his boy Geitner couldn't even figure out Turbo Tax. Too stupid.
These Republicans in office are trying to win the Tea Party over. Or, as many call them, the "No brain, Tea Baggers.”
Hallelujah!
The President evidently understands that if he can get Bowles-Simpson through Congress, all of the Bush tax cuts will be replaced by a reformed tax code centered on increasing revenue AND economic growth while reducing the nation's debt.
Now...
All he has to do is endorse the Plan of his debt commission.
All he has to do is DO IT!
Progress.
:-)
Closing loopholes is not raising the tax rates. If I give special tax treatment to someone for something it is not forever and eliminating it is not raising tax rates. That sort of twisted lack of logic is where the problem is.
Wrong feisty, tax rates are not lower now than during the Reagan years, both Bush administrations, nor Clinton's administration. What is true, the tax COLLECTIONS rate are the lowest in years!!! NOT TAX RATE! Get your facts right! Quit spouting misinformation! Please!
Eva is correct, in last weeks town hall twitter, Obama also said tax rates are lower, however he misspoke or missunderstood the difference between rate and collection.
According to the Tax Foundations Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History table, the top marginal tax rate is currently 35%. In 1992 under Bush Sr the top marginal rate was 4 points LOWER than today's rate at 31%. In 1988 under Reagan the top marginal rate was 7 points lower that today's rate at 28%!
Taxes collected as a percentage of the GDP are at historic lows, which is far different than tax rates! Obama is smart enough to know the difference!
He simply hopes the American public is not smart enough to know the difference!
Since he is in the middle of a very public battle with Republicans where Obama and liberal democrats want to raise taxes and Republicans want to lower government spending to address our budget issues, this misrepresentation may be polictically deliberate
It's time for ordinary Americans to come together and support the President, just like we did after 9/11. President Obama has the opportunity to make real changes that will set us on the right path for years to come, put he needs the political support of all Americans.
If the rank and file Tea Party members call their Representatives right now and tell them to take the deal, we will all be better off.
"support the President, just like we did after 9/11"
LOL..where did that snarkily pathetic talking point come from? "Thinkprogress"?
That is literally all they got left Bob.
Knda sad really.
Makes me wonder how this is going to go come October.
You guys just keep thinking that with the Republicans screwing America we are going to run in droves to vote for any Republican ever.
Just because you are fooled doesn't mean the rest of us are.
You're knda sad, really.
That the right is so constant and loud in its criticism of sites like ThinkProgress only shows that there is truth there. Otherwise, you guys would not bother. Their sources are well documented. They are supported by video and audio clips. What is your real problem?
Think progress?
Sorry bro, I had not heard of it until Bev. adopted it as her personal mouthpiece.
Seems like Media Matters. Funny, but of no value.
Bob and Spanky seem to think they are rooting for a sports team or something. Their brains are so infested with partisan hackery they have no clue what's good for the country, they just think what their GOP masters tell them to think. That being said the left isn't much better. Reading these comments everyday gives me less and less hope for this country. We are a country of spoiled brats. Maybe we deserve what we get...
It's just sad because most people aren't like this, just our elected officials and the sorry hacks that comment on these stories.
Letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the top 10% of earners would be a good thing, if it's accompanied by real cuts in spending, but it would be trading the certainty of fixed increases in the tax code for 'promises' of cuts in spending, which is not really binding on anyone, since Congress gets to revise the spending rules every year.
Every time there has been a 'promise' of a cut in spending, that 'promise' disappeared like the dust in a windstorm.
Bring our military home from everywhere. Our military should be building industrial sites for location of American manufacturing businesses here on our soil. The sites should be shovel ready and regulation free, and industry should be rent free for 10 years and cheap after that. Make every product on earth right here on our soil and keep it cheap. Tariff all widgets from off shore up to the gills. Outsourced industry will stream back. Unemployment will drop below 3%.
Put Obamacare on the ballot in 2012 so voters can decide if they want to pay for it.
Keep in mind the will of the people. The President and members were elected by the majority in their respective districts with varying mandates. On issues they should vote the will of their electorate. And rightly it appears new members are going to do just that. If President Obama votes against the will of the majority he will not be re-elected. Polls don't register the will of Independents because Independent voters hang up on Pollsters.
A good idea would be to let any American who wishes to opt out of Obamacare just opt out. The President has stated repeatedly the vast vajority of Americans are thrilled with Obamacare, so no worry.
Why didn't President Obama simply let the Bush tax cuts expire? He must like Bush tax cuts. This is curious as he now want to end the Bush tax cuts he signed in. Very wierd. Why does President Obama want to mess with Social Security? He must love the Republicans and be confused about who he is. So many Democrats are saying Social Security is their baby.
Harry Reid had said, "I have a health care bill that will not add on dime to the deficit". Is that true, or does health care cost money? Why are health insurance companies now guaranteed insurance premiums from every single person? They had said in 2008, 'the insurance companies are the bad guy'.
"A pertinent fact has gone mostly unnoticed in this tax debate – and it’s cause for a little optimism..'Tax revenues are recovering"
Great new for state run media MSNBC! The Government is confiscating more from the private sector....
MSNBC cares deeply about the Nanny State and its well being.
We need tax revenues and we will get them. The breaks expire December-2012.
Job1, Like the article proves it is not a revenue problem but a spending problem in Washington. It appears that tax revenue has increased 8.5 % higher than last year at this same time. We can't keep wasting money on pet projects and for special interest causes we can not and should not be bailing out every business that can't manage it's resources, there are bankruptcy laws that give businesses in trouble a chance to get back on their feet, like the bail out of GM and Chrysler should have been made to go bankrupt under Chapter 11. The bailout only aided the UAWs and was pay back for their political support of Obama.
these are not the BUSH TAX CUTS SINCE obama signed an extension last december .
CALL THEM OBAMA TAX CUTS YOU LIB MORONS
No, Bush Tax cuts.
Split the difference. Bush/Obama tax cuts.
Obama's tax cuts were a huge part of the economic stimulus package and bear no relationship to the Bush era tax cuts. Obama caved to Republican demands to extend the Bush cuts for the wealthy. I guess Obama thought this would help him deal with the new Republican majority house that was soon to be seated. He was played like a fiddle on that deal; lets hope he stands firm in the deficet talks.
raising taxes on anyone is not the answer. Just imagine how much revenue we'd be generating if we didn't have 9.2% unemployment....the problem is unemployment and the failed and incompetent administration that spends too much
Ok then; lets stop spending within the tax code; lets end corporate welfare; lets reform the tax code. Lets find some way to force the greed driven selfish bastards give something back to the people that helped to make them wealthy beyond measure.
Progressive taxation yields more revenue, so also Tax reforms. Tax reforms has been chosen, by President Obama.
The President doesn't get to vote. He has said he will veto what he is likely to get to sign. There is a difference between what one chooses and what one gets.
so O'bama wants us to "eat our peas" - i guess he, his incompetent administration and all the blind liberal drones are now the Pea Party....
We need more taxpayers and we could have them if the Obama administration would let us drill in the Gulf of Mexico, off the East and West Coast and in Alaska. To much government regulations in all of our businesses and businesses who usually plan their business plans 5 to 10 years in advance, can't without knowing about Obama care and the tax cuts that are set to expire the end of next year. Again it's not a revenue problem but a spending problem. Even the GAO came out and said the government is wasting billions in duplicate programs throughout the government and also billions in waste and fraud.
sfcret I find it very interesting that no Media seems to be talking about that report in the context of these debt ceiling talks
our own government puts out a report showing hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and duplication and then it just goes away........where is the real media??
Gregor, the real media isn't interested in facts because it doesn't stimulate the new cycle of democrats against republicans. It wouldn't generate controversy because it is something that both parties might be able to work out if they would quit playing politics. Besides I think some of the congress members might be afraid they would have to do more than just talk.
sfcret; why do you blame the goverment and Obama in paticular for the failure of your industry to invest on both sides of the equation? If you want to play the fiddle you got to pay the pipper; your industry has not advanced enviormental protection and clean-up technology since the 1970s and you are suprised when the government tells you to get your act together?
Economic collapse? Financial ruin? The whole system burning to the ground? Keep it up repubs and your constituents (rich folks) will be in the same boat as those of us in the middle class, tired and broke. The difference is we are already there. Burn baby burn!
This Pea Party President will decide who gets to keep what - he'll decide what's fair and what's not - I'm not rich just a hard working middle class conservative independent who thinks spending is the problem. If we deal with the 9.2% unemployment we will get more revenue - how about working on turning the economy around and helping Americans get back to work instead of looking to take more from anyone?
maybe O'bummer will come looking for even more taxes next time he'll come to you not the rich
And you are being played like a fool by the masters you serve.
I believe they were lower under Reagan. Don't need to go back to Eisenhower. Another wrong talking point Fiesty. At least get them right.
They extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and added $800 billion to the debt in the process. So GOP, where are the jobs?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Call their bluff Obama and hang tough. The American people are with you. In the days leading up to the Aug 2 deadline, the stock market will crash several thousand points a day and the investor class will FREAK OUT on the GOP. The Chamber of Commerce will freak out on the GOP. The pundits will freak out on the GOP. There will be riots in the streets directed at the GOP when people see their life saving evaporate and massive layoffs commence. Obama and the Dems have put trillions in spending cuts on the table along with Social Security and Medicare and these tea wankers can't let go of tax breaks for oil companies??? The nerve of these tea bagger wankwads, cutting benefits that I have paid into my entire working life and letting the wealthy off scott free. No f-ing way. Not in a million years.
"Years later, Manypenny doesn’t recall how much money he ended up paying in back taxes. But he questions how someone who hounded a minor-league tax delinquent like himself could support the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans enacted by former President George W. Bush" ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43715749/ns/politics-decision_2012/)
The wealthy wants the middle class to pay for the government expenses; and the wealthy has received the bonus when in good time; but the wealthy has also received the bail out when in bad tme; and amazingly the wealthy can still seek the money after govt' bail out and they can gain double, such as mortgage.
The wealthy has control over the cost of the health care, the land, the economy, the politicians, ... except the votes. Now the wealthy really needs to help; or their politicians would be voted out.
Bring our military home from everywhere. Our military should be building industrial sites for location of American manufacturing businesses here on our soil. The sites should be shovel ready and regulation free, and industry should be rent free for 10 years and cheap after that. Make every product on earth right here on our soil and keep it cheap. Tariff all widgets from off shore up to the gills. Outsourced industry will stream back. Unemployment will drop below 3%.
Tax reform has been on the table as part of debt reduction this measure has been opposed by the Tea Party but the same members who oppose this measure had no problem in passing welfare for themselves in farm subsidies check.
The only reason Obama agreed to extend the Bush "tax breaks for the wealthy" was he didn't think it was fair to the lower and middle income earners to completely eliminate them and the republicans refused to allow them to be raised only on the wealthy. So why are they referred to as "tax breaks for the wealthy'!? Answer, it sounds good to the 98% who aren't wealthy. As that one poll showed, 80% agree with raising taxes on the top 2% ie someone else. I'm surprised it wasn't closer to 98%!
Why should supercommittee be politicans from the Republicans and Democratics from Washington D.C.
This supercommittee should be some one outside of Washington D.C. unknown to Republicans or Democratics like a consultant Financial Group.
My feeling is we have Politicans in this group thats working for Charles and David Koch, and working for the interest of corporations and ordinary Americans.
I have to research and see how many of the supper-committee are members of American Legislative Exchange Council.