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Frank Thorp, NBC News
Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA)
As Congressional leaders meet today at the White House for the third time in the past week to discuss a deal to decrease the deficit, the gap between Democrats and Republicans appears wider than ever.
With President Obama telling reporters that there is no path to a deal if the GOP won't budge on revenue increases, the question looms if a deal will be made at all by the Aug. 2nd deadline that the Obama administration has imposed for when the nation's debt limit must be raised.
During a pen-and-pad news conference with reporters today, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) reiterated his stance that the tax increases Obama is calling for will not pass the House.
"The votes aren't in the House to raise taxes," he explained emphatically. "If they want to vote on the debt ceiling, they're going to have to come meet us, and we're going to have a package that does not have any net new revenues, period."
Cantor, who is one of eight members of Congress who are regularly meeting with the president in an effort to strike a deal, said that Monday's meeting at the White House will focus on the details that came out of the Biden group meetings, which were disbanded after Cantor left over continued talks of increasing revenue.
Obama has called out Republicans, who he believes are not playing fair, saying his proposed concessions involving entitlements such as Medicare and Social Security are not matching their unwillingness to budge on increasing revenues. Cantor doesn't see it that way.
"The fact that we're even discussing voting for a debt-ceiling increase [is a concession]," he contended. "Again, what I don't think the White House understands is how difficult it is for fiscal conservatives to say that they're going to vote for a debt-ceiling increase."
The big question is whether a deal, if one ever comes forth, could garner the 218 votes it would need to pass in the House. Many Republicans have already expressed their intention to vote down a deal that includes tax hikes, and then there is the Tea Party members, who will refuse to vote to increase the debt limit no matter what the deal includes.
House Democrats have also made it clear that a deal which includes changes to Medicare or Social Security would be almost impossible to support as well.
"There is a fundamental preset to being a Democrat that involves a commitment to Medicare, and to that safety net, and we ain't going to give that up," said Rep. Jerry Connolly (D-VA) late last week.
He anticipates that Speaker John Boehner will need between 68 and 90 Democratic votes to pass any deal that is brought forth.
The vote will, no doubt, have implications in the 2012 election, as any concessions either party decides to make could be campaign fodder for opponents to use in attack ads.
"This will be, I think, the biggest issue that we'll face that comes from Congress in the reelection," Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) said.
Cantor reiterated that concern today: "The election battle in 2012 is going to be much about the future of how this country runs it's entitlements programs and constructs a safety net for those who need it, and frankly not for those who don't."
But, according to Cantor, there's no question that the increasing the debt limit by the Aug. 2nd deadline is necessary, explaining that interests rates could "quickly wipe out any savings potential that we're working on here."
He also admitted that a "clean vote" to raise the debt ceiling (which would simply be done to avert the crisis and wouldn't include any deficit reduction plans), would be fruitless. "The markets are smarter than to just accept a, as you call it, clean vote on the debt ceiling," he said. "Just checking the box and making the payment, if you will, is not going to satisfy savvy investors out there, who know the fiscal situation of this country."
Today's meeting will be the start of daily meetings the president has called for to bridge the gap between the two sides, and while Cantor has expressed his intentions to negotiate, he also didn't rule out the idea of leaving the talks if President Obama continued to press for an increase in revenues.
"We certainly don't want to walk out of these talks," he said, "but I think the message has been heard at the White House from what I stated yesterday that we're not going to raise taxes."
Leave a Comment:
The little wild eyed weasel is already measuring drapes for the speakers office.. LMAO
Now, Cantor is a REAL leader - you know the kind, who pack up their crayons and run from the playground when they don't get their own way!
Watch your ankles Speaker Weeper your days are numbered!
What an arrogant little toad. I hope President Obama hands him his head in a box. Maybe if President Obama says boo loud enough he will mess his diaper and run all the way home crying mommy the President just yelled at me.
So says Feisty, commenting upon leadership.
Unlike say Obama's leading from behind while ignoring his own debt commission.
Yep, that's leadership.
Why sit around and argue with people you neither like nor agree with? If a person can see the discussion is not going anywhere, I don't blame him for moving around. He knows he will get villified in the press but he is holding fast to his demands. If he goes in there and just give up the ghost, he will be known as a sell-out.
Some of you in here need to learn a thing or two about leadership. Obama is not a leader; he is a skillful POLITICIAN. If leadership was a pre-req for President, there is no way he would have won. He won on political skills and the blind-hatred of Bush......
I don't think the democrats get the fact that last November the country overwhelmingly said we don't like the direction the country is headed in.
They don't get the fact that there simply aren't enough votes in the House to pass new tax increases.
They don't seem to like the fact that the American people voted in representatives that are actually standing the ground of the people who voted them into office.
Do the democrats want the representatives to go against their constituents?
The majority of Americans understand that we don't have a revenue problem, this administration has a spending problem. I would suggest they go to their local shopaholic meeting and get some help!
It's a shame we don't have better leadership in the Whitehouse. This country will suffer from Obama's 4 years for multiple years to come. His anti-bank and business rhetoric has convinced too many free loaders that it's some one elses fault they are poor. That's not fair to the free loaders or the hard working Americans paying thier way......
Hand him his head in a box? Speaker Weeper?
Real mature!
I sure do hope President Obama has the leadership skills to understand "What little children" he is dealing with. If not, simply trying to spank them might not work. Obama seems to be saying: "If you don't agree to my tax increases, I'm going to take my ball and go home." Leadership?
"Do the democrats want the representatives to go against their constituents?"
Yes, that's it. They shoved Obamacare down our throats when the majority of Americans said NO. The Dems are not representative of the American people. They represent only a small fraction of the NON-Tax payers.
Totally a legitimate question, esp. to Feisty/Spanky and the others who really get riled up...
Are your politicians of your political party? Like, obviously Feisty(an example, not picking on you) is a registered Dem. Just as obviously, she's from Illinois.
Are your elected representatives Democrats?
Or will you make your vote known during the next election?
Just curious since several of the First Read 'crew' talk a big game, wondering if your elected politician is already of your political party (which would sort of render anything you say 'moot' since you don't have the power to vote outside your district) or if you actually have some leverage you plan on using against the Republican/Democratic party?
Cuz it'd be real funny if your elected reps were already of your political parties, and you were impotently reduced to making grandiose statements on FR and 'campaigning' for your political party (I prefer it to 'Shilling' which has nasty connotations). Humor and Hubris rolled into one nice little package!
teknishan. My elected representatives/senators are a mix of R and D. I write them often. The responses I get from the GOPer totally ignores my question or comment and tells me why he is right and I am wrong. The responses I get from my democratic representative are not boiler plate, they address my question or comment and provide me with specifics; he does not tell me his position but rather honestly addresses my concerns.
Cantor is the punk's punk. He is the reincarnation of the eternally slimy John Doolittle. I can't believe that even Republicans can tolerate the cretin.
Really now, wouldn't you want to meet the punk one on one? Wouldn't you just love to pound the daylights out of him and forever wipe that smirk off his face? As much as I dislike McConnell and Boehner, Cantor is the clear winner in the Slime Bowl.
UAW:
That's right, things will be horrible after Obama is gone. I had forgotten how wonderful things were when Bush left office.
David Walker,
I think he's more like Eddie Haskill, personally. The most I would do is glitter bomb him; but I certainly have a few choice words I'd love to share with him.
His Lobbyist Stench keeps me away, though.
Ahhh what's the matter David? Things going so badly you are reduced to violence now? Or is it just a violent fantasy thing?
You'd beat up little old Cantor? Yeah, nothing says intellectual superiority like pounding the daylights out of some one, eh there David?
Ok, I'll play along, tell us the last time you actually hit a man?
And here I was thinking you libbies could sound any more ridiculous. My bad. Won't let that happend again.
Hey, you better run along now and go hit the weights. :)
Last year WSJ reported that Cantor had between $1000 and $15000 invested in a fund aggressively "shorts" long term US Treasury bonds, meaning that it performs well when US debt is undesirable.
According to Cantor's latest financial disclosure statement, he still has up to $15k in the same fund. Cantor's office gave no indication that he (played a leading role in the debt ceiling negotiations) has divested himself of these holdings. Unless an agreement can be reached, the US could begin defaulting on its debt payments on Aug. 2. If that happens and Cantor is still invested in the fund, the value of his holdings would skyrocket.
Personally I don't think someone negotiating the debt ceiling should be invested in this kind of an ultra-short.
Excellent point Elise - here's the full story from Salon;
Nothing like letting the weasel guard the hen-house!
Children!
They ask the President to get involved. He does. They stonewall him. They reject the positions they agreed to only days before.
Now they wait for him to come meet them?! They have no understanding of the word compromise. Nor do they wish to.
They are destroying the country. On purpose.
Hang tough Mr. President! Do not be bullyed by these children!
I don't think the democrats get the fact that last November the country overwhelmingly said we don't like the direction the country is headed in.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a big fat lie. Only 37% of the voters voted. Mostly Tea Baggers. That will not happen in 2012.
During the last election, the people who actually voted did not overwhelmingly vote for anything. The Republican/TP Inc. party was able to get more of their people out to vote and still only captured barely enough to win the seats they won (few, if any results for any one candidate was over 51% of votes cast in their district). It was also an historically low turnout for Democratic voters and even then, the total of eligible voters who voted was well under 50%.
What were the Republican/TP Inc. party campaigning on? Is sure wasn't 'the direction of the country', it was 'jobs, jobs, jobs'. What have they done since taking office? Obstruct every job creation bill that has been proposed and proposed only social engineering bills . . . and the Ryan budget that would have added to the debt, requiring a debt ceiling raise.
Elise, excellent point, please post a link to that/those article/s. It is definitely something to share with everyone who thinks that the Republican/TP Inc. party has only altruistic motives for their stance.
Oo, some of you post so much faster. Thanks, Fiesty, Job1, et. al.
Come meet you WHERE, Mr. Cantor? In the land of zero taxes and NO social programs?
Sounds enticing. What time would that be?
Along about the twelfth of never. That's what time.
I'm all for the balanced budget amendment Mr. Cantor and the Tea Publicans want, as long as it contains a clause limiting the number of terms a weasel can serve in Congress.
Tell him, OK you win Cantor. So we’ll have deficit reduction. No tax increases,…… right?
And I’m the Commander –in-Chief,……right? OK here’s what happens now:
All U.S. personnel will receive a ride home, and one chance and only one chance to get on the plane. After that, it’s a long hitch hike home.
All Congressional and White House Staff paychecks are suspended pending budget resolution.
Oh dear Representative Cantor, Boehner,…it would appear that a great, great many military arms manufacturing facilities and Federal offices are located, in Ohio and Virginia, and concentrated in Red States. Sorry. Thing of the past. Closed until further notice as are all U.S. Naval facilities and yards in San Diego and Electric Boat in Bath, Maine.
The U.S. can no longer afford to be “World Cop”.
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid payments will continue as they are not part of the Federal budget, and draw no funds from there. Except checks to Tea Party districts. Want smaller government? Here ya’ go,...your checks are cancelled. Enjoy smaller government. V.A. bennies/hospitals will continue uninterrupted.
Then I’d take my phone off the hook and wait about a week. At the end of it the repubs would be groveling to do a deal.
Problem solved.
Not the national parks or the Smithsonian. The rest is a "go." I doubt it would take a week, but he should make sure he hangs on to all those soldiers until the deal is done.
Gosh AM, it sounds great to me.
Question - what social programs do you use? I can't think of any I use, and god knows we here in Cali could do with out our $150k life guards, $250K per year librarians, and certainly our 1400 state workers that make over $400k per year.
See we used to have plenty of cash for programs, but then those mean old greedy public unions took it all away for pension and benefits. But it's ok CALPERS [the agency in charge of investing the pension funds] tells us we are in store for like a 8-9% growth rate on investments, so everything is ok.
All is well. All is well.
So David Walker - is that a zero? The number of grown men you have punched is nada, zilch, ziperoney? That's good cause you talking about smack on Eric Cantor strikes me as anti-semetic.
How about you Ira?
What's wrong with a little economic collapse? What's wrong with the rich learning what we in the middle class have learned; it sucks to be broke.
David Walker-
Thanks for your comments about Eric Cantor.
They belie every pseudo-intelligent post you've made at First Read.
I can get those kind of comments from any rank-and-file anti-semite...but, I'm glad they came from you, David.
Your passion is unquestioned.
See how easy it was, Spanky, when we finally put our minds to it?
BTW -- The first politician I ever wanted to "take and shake" was George W. Bush. What do you make of that?
Did you really, really hate him, AM?
Did'ya want to "pound" his face in?
And "forever" change its expression?
Please.
Say "no".
Job1,
Only 37%?!?! Holy smoke! I knew it was low, but did not realise just how low it was. So, then basically, the overwhelming sense of the electorate was 'None of the above'.
Or, the overwhelming sense of the electorate was, to quote a poster I haven't seen on here for a while (what was that name?), "Yawn." (Sorry, guys, couldn't help myself.)
From what I heard on the Sunday talk shows, Cantor has been telling Boehner NO. I do not know how a subordinate can tell his boss what to do, but in these days of the Tea Party, I guess anything is possible.
Then we can take all of the furloughed soldiers and put them to work on infrastructure and a near-maniacal rabid pursuit toward alternative energy, research, development and installation using ALL alternatives, and geographically-appropriate selection.
Republicans are still playing around with the same fire? Guess they don't care about getting burned on Aug. 2nd as long as the nation gets burned with them.
Ironically, this shutdown will affect the very people republicans have sworn to protect. Wonder how Big Business feels about that? When the stock market crashes again, how long do you think it will take republicans to sign a deal? I'm willing to bet that the closer it gets to deadline, the more likely republicans will be getting calls from Koch and company.
Something about "cutting the nose off to spite one's face" rings a bell here.
Spanky,
Simple question for you. Real easy.
If California is such a Liberal/Democratic hell hole for you why don't you move?
Seriously, why don't you just leave California?
Well, no. I've never felt that way about anyone, except I wouldn't mind putting a "forever" smile on someone's face now and then.
Congressional Reform Act of 2011
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.
2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.
3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.
6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.
The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
Since one cannot expect normal media channels to report truth and reason, please allow me to shed some light on the Ultra Short Treasury/Eric Cantor hoohah.
The ProShare UltraShort is designed to return 200% of the inverse action of the 20 year Treasury bond in one day. That means the fund inversely matches the underlying index for a day --- not long term. The UltraShort ETF’s (which Salon writes EFT – an indication that they don’t know what they are talking about…) anyway, the UltraShort ETF’s have been found by the SEC and other regulatory bodies not to work as advertised if held on a long term basis. (ie: you have to day trade them to make any money).
Eric Cantor’s net worth is somewhere between $2,675,175 and $7 million. Let’s go with the low end of $2.6 million and his holding in TBT is .0056% of his networth. He disclosed a position in the ETF between $1,000 and $15,000. Let’s go with the high end. If he had bought $15,000 of shares last year at the absolute low, and sold them at the absolute high (which he didn’t because he supposedly still owns them), on a $15,000 investment, he would have made 37.6% (nice) or $5,600 (sort of a pittance to a millionaire). On the day the talks broke down, the ETF rose 3.3%. He would have made $495 that day. Maybe I’m not in the real world but neither $495 nor $5,600 seem like a "windfall" to me for a guy worth $7 million.
The yield on the US Treasury is at historic lows. The only direction to go is up. Eventually rates will rise. Thousands of people know this and have invested in TBT in an uninformed effort to hedge against rising rates. It’s not inside information. It’s not a secret. If rates spike and shorting the treasury makes a bit of money, there’s no way the profit will outweigh or even hedge the decimation the rest of his investment portfolio will endure.
This is a non story. Next time, before getting all riled up, get out a calculator.
Reality check time. I doesn't matter what Obama, Boehner and the rest talk about. The Wall Street robber barons will not allow the debt ceiling to not be raised. They are the one's who will be hurt the worst. If they have not done so already, they will soon be issuing their orders to both sides. "Raise the debt ceiling or else." No one will say no to the boss.
I don't think the republicans get the fact that Barack Obama and the former Democratic congressional majority were elected in 2006 as a change from Bush policies. Obama is in the White House for a reason the repubs would have us forget.
They became a continuation of the Bush policies.
That is why they lost in 2010: THE DEMOCRATS BECAME TOO REPUBLICAN.
In case you repubs missed the take away from this missive I will make it as plain as the English language allows:
AMERICA STILL HATES REPUBLICANS!!
THEY HATE EM' A LOT.
AFTER AUG 2ND, THEY'LL HATE EM' EVEN MORE.
Verstehen ?
Dems in 2012. Mass republican slaughter.
Ummmmmmm Spankaroni?
Simple question for you. Real easy.
If California is such a Liberal/Democratic hell hole for you why don't you move?
Seriously, why don't you just leave California?
And here I thought Boner was supposed to be the crybaby of the GOP.
Let's see... raise the tax (by 3 cents) on the top 2% (who have not been affected much by the economic slowdown) or add an additional, what $1 trillion?, to the debt over the next several years? Does anyone really think that 3 cents per dollar to a millionaire is going to make that much of a difference with all of the loopholes the Grumpy Obsolete Party will leave in place?
The biggest problem is Medicare, where Obama's own budget projections show a $3.7 Trillion deficit for the program over 10 years.
The workers have two choices - Raise payroll taxes on Medicare, or cut benefits (or some combination of both). The program cannot keep running on empty, so some hard decisions need to be made, but the problem is that there aren't any 'courageous' politicians willing to do what's needed - just look at the beating that Ryan took for daring to suggest we had a Medicare problem and propose some solutions. For an interesting 'read' on inflation, you might read about the Weimar Republic in Germany after WW1.
Demagoguery will win over reality every time because the media will not tell the truth about the problem.
While it's not really likely that the country would go 'bankrupt', it appears to be inevitable that virtually everyone's savings will be wiped out by inflation.
Hear hear! No mention of cutting the military, our biggest expense, from MSM. Non-starter with republicans on cutting corporate subsidies. A forbidden topic on repealing the tax cuts. Can't even get a debate on tariffs.
Oh yeah, we hear alot about robbing grandpa and grandma from years of donating to the kitty. Funny how they forget to mention the I.O.U.s in that kitty. Seems Big Business needs our SSI and Medicare money to horde along with the billions they have in profit now.
For an interesting 'read' on Starving the Beast, you might read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
If Eric Cantor and the GOP started a band it would be called "Baby Eric and the Wailing Diaper Load"
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On the plus side, only a delusional moron could look at what is happening in Washington DC and not realize that the fault lies squarely with the Republican Party and their contingent of squealing bed wetters.
America is NOT far from a Constitutional Crisis! Lets see how much the GOP led House thinks they OWN!
According to the Carnival Barkers( formerly known as the MSM),The GOP House of Representatives, Run it All.
I'm with Forest, Mr President, doubledown again, lets see who actually is the Leader of the Free World!
You Betcha!
Rick,Ky,
On a personal level, I could not agree with you more.
The GOP was handed a deal for $4 trillion that they should have jumped on. They will never get a deal that good (I hope) again. Everything was on the table, including Social Security and Medicare, the sacred cows of core Democratic politics.
They had to turn it down because it would have taken the debt and entitlement reform, off the table for the 2012 election and way beyond. Fixing Social Security and Medicare, reforming the tax code, reducing the debt would have made the Obama re-election a no-brainer in 2012. The GOP could never allow that so they reneged. Jobs is the Obama Achilles heel right now and he has 2 years to fix it.
Second, Obama doesn't have the luxury of allowing a default. Our currency, our bonds and notes and Treasury obligations are secured by the full faith and credit of the US. Once breached it will be almost impossible to restore....certainly will take a long while. One of the immediate consequences will be that the interest rate on our borrowings will go up causing the deficit to grow even higher.
That is the definition of a rock and a hard place.
So, 56 Congressman, the Tea Party Caucus, is holding America hostage to their demands. If the GOP continues to abide this insanity and does not make a deal that involves a revenue increase....not revenue neutral...the consequences will fall flatly on their shoulders and their leadership knows it.
Let's hope they are not that uncompromising.
Ira. You nailed it. The GOPTP had a great deal but unfortunately, it isn't about that, it is about 2012 and winning.
So Ira, you were actually privy to the actual proposal?
Do tell us about the specifics please. I for one, would just love to hear all about the specific entitlement cuts.
Come on Ira, you know as well as I do how the negotiation game goes. There is no deal until there is a deal. Now most here will never understand that. Having done many multi party negotiations we know that to be totally true.
There will be a deal. It will suck. There will be a brief respite, then the economy will continue to decline.
Obama is gone no matter what. Geitner so much as admitted it yesterday.
Easy as this: are you doing better now than you were before Obama? Of course not. No one is, and accordingly he is toast.
It ain't always fair, it just is.
Spanky,
The only particulars I know is what I read. I did read that Obama had $100 billion in Medicare cuts on the table. I do know that he offered cuts to Social Security, amount unknown. Cite: MSNBC
I do know how the negotiation game goes and I also know that there's a whole lot of showmanship in politics. Always need to look good for your base. In this case, Obama didn't play that game. He offered up the social entitlements as part of the deal. He got killed by the liberal and progressive wings of his party. Seems he was not about the game, he offered what he had.
Now, he has been forced into a corner, a take it or leave it proposition. How much is fact and how much is game, who knows. Based on Cantors and the GOP leadership remarks, they seem to be uncompromising.
Not sure if there will be a deal or they just raise in the debt ceiling and keep on arguing. Honest evaluation. The GOP leadership is afraid of the TP and their base and knows it can't win in 2012 without them. It needs to somehow appease them. Good luck with that.
Me, I'm about the same as I was pre-Obama. My house is worth about a third less but not much changed for me. Same tax deal, etc.
I would not count this guy out yet, not with this GOP field, not with this debate being the possible tipping point.
It ain't always fair, it just is.
Without compromise, there is no deal at all. Compromise means meeting in the middle. The Republicans do not understand this. They will destroy the country clinging to their ideology. Very sad.
You guys are funny. Last year when it was about the health care bill the libbies simply labeled everything "sausage making" and moved on.
We were told to wait to see what actually came about.
Seems like the old shoe is on the other foot. But don't fret too much you all still control the Senate and the White house. You all should be in great shape, right?
And yes fielden, it's just those mean old evil republicans that won't compromise. No doubt at the direction of the Kochs. You should read what dangerfield has to say below.
Aww, never mind. You and Jody, birds of a feather and all that.
Did anyone else notice how both Republican/TP Inc. people quoted in this article indicated that it was all about winning the next election? Personally, I thought government was supposed to be about the people governed. You know: by the people, of the people, and for the people? Something the Republican/TP Inc. elected officials seem to have forgotten. Especially with statements like those in the article and the representative (I forget his name) who said that they were there to help businesses.
Spanky,
You know what really pissed me off about the weekend "negotiations"?
It was the Charlie Brown/Lucy football game.
Just as the parties seemed they were on the same page, the GOP pulled the ball away and the negotiations and negotiators fell flat on their respective asses.
Don't like bullies and the GOP is playing the bully card to the hilt.
Spanky, that Cantor said "they're going to have to come and meet us" pretty much says that the Republicans have not left their position, have not compromised. And that's exactly what has happened. They even misread the voting public, who want a compromise.
The Democrats have put everything on the table. And STILL the Republicans stonewall. Their hubris is their downfall.
I'm more than proud to be of the same plumage as Jody.
Funny Ira - from what I read they pulled out after Obama the the gang started in on large scale tax increases.
Funny term "bully" particularly in the negotitaions context. I find it very hard to negotiate from a position of weakness. I have to do it ofter, depending on the issue/my client/other stuff, but it almost always works out to our disadvantage.
And fielden, some of us want no tax increase, and hence no compromise. Plus which democrats you talking about? Pelosi sure has not, as have many others.
It's all sausage guys. There will be a deal. It will suck. But regardless, the economy is what it is, and it ain't good. This has nothing to do with that.
So fielden, how those loan mods coming? I'm seeing a slight increase in banks willingness to work with borrowers. Slight.
He is probably around 20 years younger than me and I promise you I would take on Eric Cantor at the poker table, the negotiating table, or the parking lot, whichever he prefers. He certainly would not be getting my cherry in any of those regards. Whatever you may think of it Spanky and Mixed Bag when I represented members of my union and promised to keep their workplace reasonably safe I sometimes had to stick my chin out there. The business I am in is dangerous, and serious safety issues pop up as fast as the next silly idea someone gets. Those safety issues have to be taken care of right then and there. If I waited until somebody is killed or mangled, and then filed some silly paperwork I have done nothing for that man, or his family. I often wished I had the luxury of calling a lawyer like you and just plastering the guy with paper but that is not how it works when oil workers are vaporized on a rig that was doing everything wrong and nobody put a stop to it. That did not work to well for 29 miners killed in a Massey energy non-union coal mine that was plastered with paper and simply paid the fines as a cost of doing business. I could not in good conscience promise people I would represent them and then let someone treat their lives as a cost of doing business. You got to put a stop to that crap before somebody is hurt or killed, and if that meant getting knocked on my ass, or knocking somebody on their ass then so be it. It happened every once in a while. You may call me an old union thug, fair enough, but funny thing is when the owners in my industry would put their kid, or nephew, or future son in law to work as a summer helper they would always be placed in my crew. One of those owners was a guy I had rolled around in the dust with when we were both much younger men, and he told me "Forrest I know you or somebody would get their teeth knocked out before you let my kid get hurt, teach the kid the business" I am not a cretin, I have some education, I think I can be reasonable, but if somebody is bound and determined to unnecessarily put anybody in my crew in harms way they are going to have to knock my old ass out first. I don't think Eric Cantor has it in him, I don't think he cares enough about anything to take a punch in the nose for it.
Spanky,
Why have a redo on this down the road? One time, get it done. Don't need to pay the price twice. The country just can't handle it.
We're talking about the good of the country. Obama had already put everything on the table in anticipation of the "big deal". You can't be in a much weaker position than that, all your cards on the table for everyone to see. When you put yourself in that position, you're not acting in your self interest or your party's. He wanted a deal for the good of the country that is good for today and for a stretch down the road. The GOP, decided party first.
Today, Cantor: "They're going to have to come meet us". Not conciliatory. Trying to bully the President and the country based on the needs of the TP. Sad day for the GOP and the country if Cantor has become their spokesman.
Party over country, not cool, just not cool.
Cantor is a swine.Â
You have no argument here.
Something I find always eerie... Cantor is always pictured directly behind Boehner. Why is that? It's like he's copping a feel or something.
That was a low blow to swine everywhere.
My father taught me a word for those who are unwilling to compromise...
STUBBORN
"A small mind is obstinate. A great mind can lead and be led." - Alexander Cannon
Seems to me that one side is willing to make a deal while the other demands they do things their way or no way.
That is whats portrayed in the media....You and no one else on this blog knows what the hell is going on in those talks. None of truly knows who is attempting to negotiate. You just can't listen to everything a politician run to a mike and says.
@Danoid
mine too....it was HONORABLE
Compromise, hmmm.
OK, you are willing to only rape me a little. I can say "No" to any any rape or I can compromise and be raped a little. I think I'll stand my ground and choose not to be raped at all.
DaNoid
Just at the Museum of Westward Expansion in St. Louis this weekend (under the Arch) and I read a quote that was quite funny:
It didn't take long for the American Spirit to shine, everyone wanted to govern and nobody wanted to BE governed.
I really laughed on that one.
Yes siree, no compromise; Why that's what our democracy is BUILT on, isn't it? (Founding Fathers spin in unison)
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read some of the "wisdom" espoused here...
American
He may have taught you the word; but apparently not the definition,...there is NOTHING honorable about putting your partisan beliefs ahead of what's best for the country. But I think you know that.
DaNoid, well said. The GOPTP legislators these days thinks compromise means democrats do what they want.
dangerfield - do your arms ever get tired trying to pull all us silly monkeys along?
But like my pal Jody said, well said. Next time you might want to be a little more explicit for Jody. She seems to have not gotten the gist of you comment.
That'd be a swing and a miss Jody.
JC - Wow...a little extreme there, aren't we?
"the road to hell is paved with good intentions", Proverbs
A good lawyer like Spanky could get a felony rape charge reduced to a traffic violation of "tailgating". Now that is negotiating!
I can't wait for the voters to punish House Republicans for their games in 2012.
"The fact that we're even discussing voting for a debt-ceiling increase [is a concession]," so said the little jerk who happily raised the ceiling under Bush, but has decided to gamble with our credit rating to play partisan politics under Obama.
Say sayonara Repubs, you're outta there!
The longer this thing drags on, the more ridiculous this "either/or", "line-in-the-sand", "my way or the highway" mentality looks.
So here's my version:
Either cut spending and raise taxes. Or raise taxes and cut spending. Whichever. Pick one.
And P.S. to the GOP Representatives: Either start acting like grown-ups and learn to compromise, or be prepared for an even bigger "shellacking" in 2012 than you think you gave the Democrats in 2010. Most of us "average, hard-working Americans" that you like to condescend to at election time are about out of patience with this silly gamesmanship.
"....so said Obama who REFUSED to vote to raise the ceiling under Bush, but has decided to gamble with our credit rating to play partisan politics now, holding us hostage to get more tax increases"
Bob-thx1138 (if 1887910 is your real location or last name, my bad)
Wasn't he (President Obama) playing partisan politics THEN too?
Were you FOR raising the debt ceiling EVERY TIME president G W Bush and his congress requested it?
Isn't everyone who is a PARTISAN playing partisan politics? Who is the real STATESMAN now?
Obama and Boehner both want a big deal because it is in their mutual SELF-interest, they are partial to their INCUMBENCY and are allied in their desires; The President wants to get re-elected and the speaker wants to retain control of the house. Boehner is willing to concede the exec branch to the democrats and the President has no trouble freezing out minority leader Pelosi and her hopes to regain the speaker's gavel.
Most here are don't understand that politics is a game for grown-ups and the "true believers" are just rubes who get fleeced every time...
Amy,and Joanne in Pa, I agree with your thoughts totally!
I just sent a scathing e-mail to my rep.Reid Ribble Wis.
I'll save you the details, but I did thank him in advance for ignoring my e-mail.
The pledge these guys make to Grover Norquist makes any fair compromise impossible.
I believe they are ready, willing, and able to let the country default, to prove a point, that the debt incured by the Bush tax cuts,unfunded wars,unfunded drug benefit for medicare,etc. is a problem, the debt ceiling was raised 7 times under Bush, but this is different they have a chance to end medicare, medicade,and soc.sec. by a democratic Pres.,in short a dream come true.
This crisis was by design,the only solution cut, cut, cut, this deadly game of chicken is a "home" game for them, the only thing to be determined is how big of a cut the dems can stomach, their greed will make us all sick for a long time. Just my 2cents, John
I have noticed that when GOPTPer legislators and TV analysts speak about the 2010 elections, their version of why voters chose them changes depending on what Congress is doing. For months, it was jobs, jobs, where are the jobs--voters chose us because we're going to create jobs and they promptly did nothing about creating jobs, they actually cost people jobs. Now today I am hearing them claim voters chose them because they wanted something done about the debt ceiling. In Nov 2010, most Americans probably didn't even know there is a debt ceiling let alone did the GOPTPers campaign on it.
How is cutting spending going to pay off the current deficit, the deficit is already there, the money is already spent. The educational system in this country must really really suck because the new kids in Congress think the best way to pay your bills is to keep trying to reduce your income. Some years ago this would have gotten you an F in arithmetic. I think we need some kind of educational program for this bunch, how about "No Congressman Left Behind" to promote the learning of arithmetic so that every new member of the house can operate at the third grade level in math.
Cantor said - "These votes aren't easy. ...What I don't think that the White House understands is how difficult it is for fiscal conservatives to say they're going to vote for a debt ceiling increase." - yea Eric, you guy really struggled to make the vote during the Bush years.
Aren't these the same Republicans who, with a majority in both houses and in the White House, approved Medicare Part D (unfunded)?
The conservatives had me going there, I actually believed lowering the Federal Deficit was their number one concern - until they walked away from a deal for everything they asked for and more - in order to protect loopholes, not taxing corporate jets, and preserving the oil subsidies. Unfreakin' believeable.
Coming from the same party that raised the debt ceiling SEVEN times during the BUSH administration!
Raised it to pay for an unfunded Medicare Prescription Plan and 2 highly questionable WARS! Thank you Mr. Cantor and all your Republican buddies!
"The markets are smarter than to just accept a, as you call it, clean vote on the debt ceiling," he said. "Just checking the box and making the payment, if you will, is not going to satisfy savvy investors out there, who know the fiscal situation of this country."
So, now we confirm who's running the show on the Republican side... "Savvy Investors..."
...Assinine....
Once again, Mr. Cantor takes his oath to Grover Norquist more seriously than his oath of office. Stand firm Mr. President, when the stock market starts tanking, most members of Congress will come around. Of course, Mr. Cantor is short in the market so he stands to profit from his position.
Al, Balance your budget in CA then work on the federal budget. Until then, very few people from CA have any credibility on the subject including Nancy Pelosi....
UAW...
They can vote that they can fly or that they're invisible or made of chocolate in Cali, via referendum...Pelosi, Arnold, now Jerry B redux, they are all helpless before the "will of the people" republican and democrat, liberal and conservative alike who voted for the insane proposals that have caused the tragic state of Cali-fornia...
California got caught in that you can't raise taxes fevor brought to you by the Republicans.
So they slashed education and that only fills the prisons faster. They slashed health care and created homeless like I have never seen before.
No health care ony jams the emergency rooms.
Maybe America should follow a different path. The California way is not working. Lets try raising taxes on the riches of Americans, quit subsidizing the richest oil companies, close those tax loopholes and higher capital gains tax so we do not have to cut so much to the poor people who need it now.
Surrender noted UAW. You can't address the substance that Cantor and the Republicans are making vows to a guy with ties to Islamic extremists instead of fulfilling their elected duties. Why do Republicans take an oath signed to a guy with Islamic extremist ties more seriously than their oath to defend the Constitution? None dare call that treason do they?
UAW, also while you were out sleeping, California passed a budget and got their credit outlook upgraded by S&P. Thanks for playing!
American First - 3238795
California got caught in that you can't raise taxes fevor brought to you by the Republicans.
What are you talking about? We had tax increases that starting in 2009 and last week they expired, much to the democrat's dismay.
Republicans did not slashed anything, hell I don't even know why they show up. Its all democrats and the unions that has the control.
"it will be his Waterloo'
Nuff' said- eh, kids?
"Again, what I don't think the White House understands is how difficult it is for fiscal conservatives to say that they're going to vote for a debt-ceiling increase."
================
Are you crappin' me!?!?!!?!!? The debt ceiling has been voted on somewhere between 10 - 15 times since 2000 alone.
Why is this man just freely given a free mic to say the stuff that he says?!?!
Allen, and all stuck on the "debt ceiling has been voted on...during Bush's term." Republicans do not dispute the Republican party under President Bush were far from fiscally conservative. Their spending (and a war-tired country) got the majority voted out in 2007.
It is better that this lesson was learned and the current group of Republicans work to avoid making the same mistakes over and over, dragging the country to it's demise...
Don't you think?
Oh "MISSY"..... really !
If anyone needs proof that the GOPTPers like Cantor are NOT serious about deficit and debt reduction, his comment above provides it. Eric Cantor, an empty suit, whose pledge to Grover Nordquist is where his allegiance lies. He had no trouble voting YEA to raise the debt ceiling, pass huge unfunded spending bills while Bush was President. What a dufus.
Obama should call the GOP's bluff, and if the US defaults, so be it. The wealthy have to share the pain with everyone else PERIOD, or no deal. The middle class are already getting the shaft so why should we care if there is an economic collapse, the entire system is a rigged game anyways. Blow it up. A US default will wipe out the wealth of all these country club republicans and their well healed Wall Street cronies. What did you expect from the GOP? These are the same bozos that turned record surpluses and the longest period of economic growth in American history and turned it into a multi-trillion debt and the Bush Depression.
The irony is that if the US currency tanks (as many predicts based on a collapse in our dollar) - the wealthy will proportionally take the BIGGER hit. It won't be in the form of taxes,...just a flat out DEVALUATION.
But I guess that concept is a little too large for them to grasp, right?
In poll after poll, 60-75% + of the American people want shared sacrifice and the wealthy to cough it up. Obama, the people are on your side.
And there it is: "...want shared sacrifice and the wealthy to cough it up."
So Keating, just who do you suppose is doing the coughing now? Is it the 49% that pay no federal taxes?
Sorry bro, eventually you run out of other people's money. Obama needs lots more. He's coming for yours. And you don't even realize it.
How's the water in that pot? Getting nice and warm, right?
Keating Five, Love your name. It brings back memories...
MN Nice: had to verify, but one of the Keating 5 was.... John McCain. Amazing how long that lying SOB, corporate shill has been around.
K5, great post. I've been thinking the same thing. The repub constituency (rich folks) have the most to lose if the debt ceiling isn't raised. Folks in the middle have already had their wealth ripped away. Time for the rich to know what it feels like.
Hey, he’s a “constitutional law professor,” and the government can tell us to eat our peas under the commerce clause.
No wonder the moonbats in here are so flummoxed; they can't comprehend that some politicians actually keep their promises. (Obama's promises all have an expiration date)
Republicans who honorably keep their promise not to raise taxes will be re-elected.
If the GOP want to be ideological zealots in service of the rich, have it your way. If Cantor and the GOP want the middle class and poor to make all the sacrifices for a debt and depression they created you are in for a rude awakening. I would rather see the entire economy blow up than be a pawn and a chump for the wealthy.
Next stop, economic armegeddon. BRING IT ON
So Bob numbers, you're saying the GOP campaigned to have Government declare bankruptcy and they're keeping their promise.
Yes Mr. Cantor - I'll meet you... in the unemployment line. Hinder MY job, and I'll TAKE yours & send you home.
(Or, as Forrest G suggested, in the parking lot! Your call.)
FR: "The vote will, no doubt, have implications in the 2012 election, as any concessions either party decides to make could be campaign fodder for opponents to use in attack ads".
Well, so much for principles.....because in the end, this is what it all really comes down to, isn't it?
Sad. Really sad.
Cantor and the TeaPublicans really don't understand how a budget works. There are TWO parts to a budget, expenditures and receipts. When you want to reduce borrowing, you have to increase revenues and cut expenditures.
I would not be at all surprised to find out that Eric Cantor had gone short on US Treasuries, with huge credit default swaps in place.
Who would have thought two years ago that the GOP would refuse to accept 4 trillion dollars in cuts to the domestic budget ? Maybe they really do want America to fail.
apparently Pea Party Democrats don't understand how a budget works since they haven't passed one in over 800 days.......
If the do nothing GOP would get out the way, maybe Obama can get something accomplished.
Toyota, do you really believe all the liberal whacko lies? The Democrats didn't pass a budget when they controlled the House and the Senate (and the White House....)
if it wasn't for the State Run Media we call news maybe it would be talked about more...
For once, could our leaders think of country before party? The common good before votes? Are these too much to ask to politicians?
..
Finally I can agree with thetotas
Talk about arrogant...
You're lucky to have me here doing my job. Cantor put on a new level of arrogance with that statement. Why don't they just not raise the debt limit and see if we care. Either solution they propose is hard times for the poor and unfortunate to go for it...
good for Eric Cantor, no more bullying or drowning out the voices that disagree with the incompetent failed overspending Liberal Democrats
I guess its the Tea Party vs the Pea Party.....
Gregor, go back and watch the news conference. The "eat your peas" metaphor was for both parties to do the hard compromise on debt and deficit. It is a creative metaphor. The Teaparty wing of the GOP are the ones who won't eat their peas because they are purist through and through. They are the ones who complain" Can't eat the peas because the gravey spilled over into the peas." Everyone know kids like that who will only eat if everything is kept separate. Their avaerge age is about 6years old.
Why do the republicans hate the middle class? How long do they think the rich will stay rich without the rest of us? The GOP is so far out of touch with the American people it's not funny. It's time they put America before their party! If they get their way and do away with social security and medicare, the harm they will inflict on this country will be immeasurable; and, I, for one, am tired of hearing how unfair it would be to tax the rich--we're not talking about stealing from the rich to give to the poor; we just want the rich to pay their fair share. I cannot believe that I grew up republican--of course, that was before they all went crazy!!!
the Republicans don't hate the middle class, that's just MSLSD and Pea Party Democrat propoganda
The GOTP does not hate the middle class, they just want it to go away, stop bothering them. Its the poor, disabled, old, women, persons of color the GOTP hates.
The fact that the GOP policies eliminate the middle class and kill everyone but the wealthy is just a bonus.
who does O'bama care about? Answer: Wall Street Fat Cats
but Liberal Pea Party Wing Nuts too hypocritical to admit it
Gregor: of course they care for Wall Street, that's where 1/2 of them came from and will be returning to, on both sides of the aisle. As they say in the Supreme Court, welcome to Washington, DC, INC.
Oh looky, rush must have coined a new word that the minions have been commanded to implement:
Pea Party Democrats
Man, that is just SO clever,...
Not quite as descriptive as tea bagger, though, eh?
two things are going to happen here . this country will go into default and cause a global crisis thanks to the party of no . Two ,this will be the end of the republican party. I can't believe that they are people in this country that buys the gop's crap about if you take away all the tax loop holes from the wealthiest people that it,s a job killer. Here's a point to ponder , the rich have had these tax cuts for quite a while now , where are the jobs that they created? In china and mexico , ceo's have gotten huge bonuses , where are the jobs? corporations have reported huge quarterly profits in the billions , Where are the jobs?
The Republicans are not against Tax Reform - that's a lie
Ask incompetent O'bummer and Clueless Joe "Summer of Recovery" Biden where the jobs are almost 3 years in with full control of House and Senate for 2 of those years and look at the nightmare mess they've gotten this country in
Gregor: Ted Kennedy died in August 2009. Prior to his death, the Democratic party held the super-majority needed to accomplish anything without the GOP for 8 months.
Since then, the GOP has stalled, delayed, delayed, filibustered and delayed everything. They even voted NO on house anti-middle class budget. Go figure.
dirp
not quite,...al franken wasn't sworn in until mid July, then they recessed by the first week of August, then Kennedy died, and wasn't replaced until the end of September. It was less than nine weeks of legislative session with a 'super' majority. but the rest of your point is spot on.
Clara: thanks, I forgot about Senator Franken. So the TeaPublicans are complaining because the Democrats had a majority for 9 weeks and did not pass 5000000000 peices of legislation.
Well, the Republicans have had the House for 7 months and haven't done diddly.
Where are the jobs ?
EXACTLY, dirp!
The job killing defunding to Planned Parenthood, the middle class collapsing union busting, the religious zeal with which they want to manage people's personal lives,...
And not ONE jobs bill. I don't want to point out mcobvious; but I think they LIED to get elected,...what do you think?
What I truly do not understand is how the Republican legislatures think they can be reelected when they are saying grandma and grandpa on social security need to give more, the young person with a minimum wage job needs to give more, the white collar worker that has been unemployed for a year needs to give more but the hedge fund manager who pays 15% in taxes due to loop holes in the tax code doesn't need to give more. The republicans in the house they were elected in 2010 because of promising not to raise taxes, they ran in 2010 on creating more jobs and yet the house has failed to produce any job creating bills. Their agenda has been one of social engineering and nothing more.
Our tax rates are at a low of 60 years. The republicans had 10 years in which this trickle down thinking should have worked but we went from a surplus under Clinton to a deficit under Bush. The Bush tax cuts to the wealthy failed to create jobs and maintaining them is not going to create jobs. President Regan raised taxes 11 times while he was President and our economy under President Clinton flourished.
After Presidend Reagan raised taxes, the economy flourished and jobs were created. President George HW Bush broke his promise, raised taxes once, and the economy did OK, but we did not go into a recession. However, the predecssors to the Tea Baggers punished him and the GOP lost the WH.
Then the GOP lost its brain and elected Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the house and it has been down hill for the GOP ever since.
When President Reagan took office, the highest marginal tax rate was 70%. The economy was in bad shape, and the Economic Recovery Act of 1981 lowered that tax rate to 50%. Later, in 1982, the tax rate was lowered again to 28%. A later bill, TEFRA, included tax increases under the condition that for every $1 in tax increase there would be $3 in spending cuts.
If Congress today would agree to $1 to $3, I think that would pass.
When you shout from the rooftops how Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his presidency, do not omit the fact that tax rates dropped from 70% to 28%; the tax increases reversed only about half of the decrease (thus - net decrease remained), 16 million jobs were created and tax receipts rose from $308.7 billion to $549 billion.
During Bush, when tax rates were lowered across the board in 2003, the economy took off. In the following 4 1/2 years, 8.2 million jobs were created. Jobs rose for 50 consecutive months. As jobs grew,tax revenue as a percent of GDP rose from 16.2% to 18.5%. Then, the financial crisis hit. The Financial Crisis was due to credit policy, not fiscal policy, not monetary policy.
Bottom line....barring disasters, tax cuts work. Tax increases without substantial spending cuts don't. Rhetoric about increasing taxes and spending more money will not put people to work.
Candice,
It looks like you are agreeing that George W Bush cut taxes too far and there needs to be an increase to get to an appropriate level of revenues. That is incredibly naive to say the financial crisis was isolated to CREDIT and not fiscal. Seriously?
The disaster WAS the tax cuts,...how do you 'bar' that?