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Subscribe to RSSAs President Barack Obama issued a withering rebuke to Congressional leaders for failing to hammer out a deal on the debt ceiling, Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill both contended Wednesday that compromise legislation cannot get to the president’s desk without substantial concessions from the other side.
Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY), said that House Speaker John Boehner “needs Democrats” to pass a budget deal through the Senate, noting that there are a number of conservative Republicans who will not vote for increasing the debt ceiling no matter how much is cut.
And Republican leaders reiterated that a deal that includes tax increases won't pass muster with the GOP.
“Their answer is to increase taxes for everything,” Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) said of his Democratic colleagues.
“We think it’s pretty clear,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said, “regardless of what we’re able to negotiate here in the short term, that we should put the federal government in this kind of fiscal straight jacket.”
Obama slammed congressional leaders during a lengthy press conference earlier Tuesday. "Call me naive, but my expectation is that leaders are going to lead," he told reporters.
The two sides have agreed to cut about $1 trillion to $1.2 trillion, but haven't made any further progress in the week since formal negotiations broke down. They need to get to $2 trillion to $2.5 trillion to get through the 2012 elections. The smaller figure would last about seven months.
Knowing that math, a Senate Democratic leadership aide said it was "probable" that something in the neighborhood of a seven-month deal is what will ultimately get voted on and agreed to before the Aug. 2 deadline. Then, the two sides could begin negotiations on reforming the tax code, in order to avoid doing this all over again in March of next year.
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President Obama took it straight to where it needed to go - the Teapublican obstructionists!
I LOVE it when our President goes and gets all 'feisty'! lol
Listen up Congress, the President just pulled back the curtain on your game of charades!
The people are not buying the garbage that you all have been peddling, as a matter of fact, many of them are looking for a REFUND from the 2010 election!
When debating President Obama, the GOP/TP will lose and if they don't find a solution, the fault will lie with the GOP/TP
{For Democrats' Eyes Only}
DailyKos:
"The primary goal of President Obama’s presser, which just wrapped up, was obvious: He was clearly out to pick a major public fight with Republicans over tax cuts for the rich. Obama mounted a surprisingly aggressive moral case for ending high end tax cuts, casting it as a test of our society’s priorities, and argued — crucially — that anyone who fails to support ending them is fundamentally unserious about the deficit.
The front pages of both the New York Times and Washington Post focused on exactly that issue. "Obama: Republican Leaders Must Bend on Taxes" reads the New York Times headline. "Obama urges GOP to agree to tax increases; President says Republicans hold indefensible position in debt talks" says the Washington Post. "OBAMA TO GOP: END TAX BREAKS FOR MILLIONAIRES, OIL COMPANIES" blares The Huffington Post. And "Obama Demands House GOP Act On Jobs, Taxes" says TPM. (I haven't checked Fox's headline yet.)
As Chris Ciliza pointed out, President Obama was unusually confrontational in his tone, calling out Republicans for talking about taking a vacation before getting their job done on the debt ceiling. President Obama flatly stated that there is absolutely no way to a get a balanced agreement without movement from Republicans on revenues. He's absolutely right. In the end, it's just a question of math. If you don't ask the wealthy to pay their share, the money is going to come from children and the elderly."
__________________________________
Children? Elderly? C'mon now. That's not who the GOP care about.
Obviously.
Thanks for sharing Pat!
Listening to the presser today was a wonderful reminder that President Obama is indeed the ONLY adult in the room!
He let's the school yard fight go on for just so long, before stepping in sending them ALL to a 'time out'!
I couldn't be prouder of our President!
Pat:
You are on top of this story. When the spotight is turned on, the GOP/TP head for cover.
Ron & Feisty: The GOP.
Corporate welfare hacks. It's all they know. And their supporters don't care. What hypocrites.
With every new day, Obama turns into a bigger clown. This is the man that meets with Reid/McDonnell for a few minutes on the budget on Monday, and scurries off to a campaign event for a full day in Iowa the next. Leading from behind? We'd take that, because Obama isn't leading at all. You have to question with his total disinterested in anything and his poor performance why he even wanted the job.
What ever happened to that budget of yours Obama? You ever going to rework it so maybe it gets someone to vote for it in the Senate?
Schizophrenia? Isn't this the same President who extended the tax cuts for the rich 6 months ago with the help of a Democratically controlled House and Senate?
faithfulalways01
If President Obama is doing such a great job, then why did yesterday's McClatchy-Marist poll, show that 61% of voters disapprove of how the president is handling the deficit (for example). Fewer than one-third 31% approve, and 8% are unsure?
However, many voters still don't blame President Obama for the nation's current economic conditions. 61% report the president inherited them while 31% think they are the result of his own policies. Nine percent are unsure.
Can anyone take this cracker jack poll seriously? Read a little more, Sherlock.
It’s important to understand how deeply ridiculous this is.
Ezra Klein noted yesterday, when it comes to this process, “There’s no world in which taxes aren’t part of that equation. Without taxes, there is no equation, and no way of telling whether we’ve got surpluses as far as the eye can see, or deficits until the cows come home. “
Dems are willing to accept concessions to strike a deal. Republicans are willing to not shoot their hostage in the head in exchange for Dems giving the GOP what it wants.
The former is an example of a party negotiating in good faith. The latter is an example of reckless thugs pretending to be a political party.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_06/understanding_the_nature_of_a030570.php
==========================================================
Worse, these doodle head Republicans are using social issues as cuts to appeal to the far right religious whack-a- doodles in order to garner votes and tax cuts for the rich.
Really, the doodle head Republicans care nothing about righteousness.
To all of you President Obama haters.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
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Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Both Obama and feisty redwig are big with platitudes and rhetoric! In his speech, Obama clearly sounds like a centrist or even moderate conservative now! Hmmmm.... is there an election coming up?
Obama's only plan seems to be to do nothing and blame the Republicans.... what a hypocrite! His mind must be more focused on his next vacation...
Before you go Mr. President what happened to your promises? Where did the money go for the shovel ready jobs...
Alan, NJ
Did you just crawl out of a hole. Everyone on this post realizes what happened six months ago when the GOP held the unemployed and poor hostage in exchange for tax cuts for their wealthy masters. It was big headline news for a long time. Wake up from your slumber Alan, NJ before your over inflated governor puts the screws to you like many of his brethren have already done in many states.
Pay no attention to Alan, Ana...
Alan like to repeat himself in the hopes that saying it enough will make it magically come true! ;o)
It's what happens when one is factually challenged...
To me, the really sad part about this is that both sides either (1) don't know how all of this plays outside the Beltway; or (2) don't CARE how all of this plays outside the Beltway.
Don't be so smug. You're obviously uninformed. In Minnesota and Texas, a LOT of the stimulus went to balancing budget deficits so Governors Perry and Pawlenty could blaim President Obama because the stimulus didn't create enough jobs and then claim what great budget balancers THEY are. In Texas, alone, it was more than $6 billion. So thank Governor Perry for that. The money is gone, gone, gone, and there's no more to replace it, and no prospect of jobs to generate more revenue.
... and pays taxes, too.
Yes, it is, actually, and they were obviously wrong, wrong, wrong to capitulate to the Republican's "we'll shut 'er down" blackmail. It didn't create any jobs, did it?
No surprise. Tax cuts for the wealthy never have.
Feisty,
I think these Republicans are upset today.
We'd have less unemployed and poor if it wasn't for Obama. Obama thinks people with jobs are his own personal ATM. Sooner or later though, and as it's been shown with Obama programs and policies, you run out of people that are producing to tax, and get too many people that aren't working to provide for. That will be Obama legacy when he leaves office in 2013.
Funny how that happens when the curtain is peeled back! LMAO!
They NO likey when they're exposed for the obstructionists they are...
With thanks to blackwaterdog for bringing this excellent article to our attention re: President Obama's position on gay marriage. Here's a snippet- it's an excellent read.
Andrew Sullivan: A PRESIDENT, NOT A GOVERNOR
Some now want this president to be Andrew Cuomo, a heroically gifted advocate of marriage equality who used all his skills to make it the law in his state. But the truth is that a governor is integral to this issue in a way a president can never be. Civil marriage has always been a state matter in the US. That tradition goes all the way back; it was how the country managed to have a patchwork of varying laws on miscegenation for a century before Loving vs Virginia. The attack on this legal regime was made by Republicans who violated every conservative principle in the book when they passed DOMA, and seized federal control over the subject by refusing for the first time ever not to recognize possible legal civil marriages in a state like Hawaii or Massachusetts. Defending this tradition is not, as some would have it, a kind of de facto nod to racial segregation; it is a defense of the norm in US history. And by defending that norm, the Obama administration has a much stronger and more coherent case in knocking down DOMA than if it had echoed Clinton in declaring that the feds could dictate a national marriage strategy.
The president has no actual political authority over this issue. He does have moral authority. But what close observers know about Obama is that he does not think of the presidency the way he thinks of a campaign. He knows he is president of all the people, including those who voted against him and those who conscientiously oppose marriage equality. He does not seek to divide as his predecessor did. By staying ever so slightly above on this issue, Obama is doing the right presidential thing - while presiding over what may well be the most seismic period for gay equality in history. I do not despise his restraint in his office. I wish more presidents exhibited it (and I wish he exhibited it a little more in cases like the Libya war).
One more thing. A civil rights movement does not get its legitimacy from any president. I repeat: he does not legitimize us; we legitimize him. As gays and lesbians, we should stop looking for saviors at the top and start looking for them within. We won this fight alongside our countless straight family members, friends, associates and fellow citizens. As long as Obama has done due diligence in the office he holds - and he has - he is not necessary to have as a Grand Marshall for our parade.
This is not about him. So instead of treating him with anger or disappointment, give him a little touch of his own trademarked mild condescension at the White House reception today.
And wink back.
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/06/a-president-not-a-governor.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+andrewsullivan%2FrApM+%28The+Daily+Dish%29&utm_content=Twitter
__________________________________
I so admire our President. A class act.
And why shouldn't I continue to call out the complete political cowardice of this Administration and a lame-duck Congress who had already lost the election? I will never accept the proposition that the President could not not have gone before the country and used the bully pulpit to promote his policy of extending unemployment benefits. Why could reconciliation not be used to extend these benefits while allowing the tax cuts simply to expire?
The dirty little secret is that the Administration wanted another stimulus to the economy to improve their election chances in 2012 and 400B a year in borrowed tax cuts were just the ticket. The people on this post love to delude themselves when the President does not conform to their narrative, the way he ditched the public option for example, but that doesn't change the facts. This President promoted the idea of extending the tax cuts, did an end run around the house, and signed a bill that he hoped would aid his re-election.
BTW My governor is doing just fine thank you.
JoAnnaSmith1
What ever happened to that budget of yours Obama? You ever going to rework it so maybe it gets someone to vote for it in the Senate?
Lady Jo Sniff
When you go snooping around looking for insults you might wanna get you facts straight. Surely, The GOP/t-baggers are non-productive because they are not working.
Also, if you were good at gathering facts, you’d ask why Eric Cantor walkd out of their meeting? Or ask why Eric Cantor has a glaring conflict of interest. He's the GOP's chief debt ceiling negotiator. He's also invested in a fund that will skyrocket if there's a default.
When Eric Cantor shut down debt ceiling negotiations last week, it did more than just rekindle fears that the U.S. government might soon default on its debt obligations -- it also brought him closer to reaping a small financial windfall from his investment in a mutual fund whose performance is directly affected by debt ceiling brinkmanship.
The Wall Street Journal reported that Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House, had between $1,000 and $15,000 invested in ProShares Trust Ultrashort 20+ Year Treasury EFT. The fund aggressively "shorts" long-term U.S. Treasury bonds, meaning that it performs well when U.S. debt is undesirable. (A short is when the trader hopes to profit from the decline in the value of an asset.)
Oh and about that clown thing the President said they are the "carnival barkers". Clearly, you should see that with the GOP auctioning off our debt. Hell, Ron Paul said "let America go bankrupt"
Where are the jobs repugs promised?
The force is strong with this one. Apparently, she can read minds!
Uh...really? Okay.
Yes...more poor...that's what we want! MWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!
The GOP 2012 campaign continues..."Vote for us or we won't give you any jobs!"
faithfulalways01
rereg under the name of alwaysfaithfull..you've been had..were you suspended or kicked off? buh bye!
Some of your best work ever jobbed. Congrats.
Bill forget about feisty.... Obama could drop his pants if the teleprompter 'promted' him to do so and it wouldn't matter to feisty. The only thing she loves more than BO is Jerry Springer.
When it comes to Obama, truth and facts don't matter to her! Never have!
Thanks JoAnna,
I worked hard on this.
Obama's speeches are like eating cotton candy.... very sweet, but no nutrients!
He actually said :
"Call me naive, but my expectation is that leaders are going to lead,"
OMG, he can actually say that with a straight face. His record as a leader is horrendous! Doesn't he ever look at the polls? Is his ego so enormous he doesn't see his mistakes?
Let this be a lesson to all of us, a lesson we must remember when we vote!!!!
Alan - It was lack of political/personal will when Obama and the Democrats signed on to the tax cut extensions. However, it is 6 months over though. Perhaps he has learned and is trying to rectify his mistake.
I happened to like what I heard from him today. Also glad to hear he is debunking what FR said that the August 2nd date could move. Get it done now. Both sides need to get together or both sides can continue to fight and blame each other as REM sings "Its the end of the world as we know it"
From Pat, Boston:
That's the liberal HuffPo for you, coming up with a headline that actually captures the gist of what Obama was saying, rather than a headline that supports the Republican lies that Obama wants to raise everyone's taxes. But the NYT and WaPo do as "serious" news organizations usually do, and come up with a vague headline that helps the Republicans frame the issue the way they want.
listening to the Obama and we wonder why they Democrats are the most uninformed people in this country. They will believe anything.............
So as a leader Obama.. When exactly are you gonna start leading. Instead of playing Golf?
JoAnnaSmith1
Some of your best work ever jobbed. Congrats."
Well, it's nice to see the adults have returned to the room.
Or not.
Not according to the polls I've seen. Like this one, published today:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/58009.html
And not by any reasonable measure of humanity and decency, either. He's nothing but an ignorant, arrogant bully who thinks he is above criticism and doesn't have to answer to the "little people."
And now that I think about it, he's another guy who makes threats against uppity women, isn't he?
The rest of your post was surprisingly spot-on, however. Kudos for that.
job1 - yes obamas speech did sound as consistant as you said....blah, blah, blah...
yellowdog - he rationalized about the drop dead date, but didn't debunk it. It is still an unknown as to how the markets will react.
I did so like his comment on not being a fear monger though, he then made comments comparing a corp jet deductable to some little kid and then with paying our obligations to china vs not paying our elderly or providing medicare/medicaid, etc. What he failed to mention is that the treasury has a continuous stream of money coming in and that our debts don't all become due on August 3 2011.
The man needs to stop playing to the left in his speeches. I have no problem in revamping the tax codes to eliminate/minimize deductions, but apply them equally across the board. His comments regarding the oil companies making money hand over fist was in direct contradiction to what CBS news reported on profit margins between oil, pharmaceuticals and computers.
Another interesting little blurb he made was how good it would be to foster 1% growth. Immediately after the speech when programing was returned to bloomberg TV an observation was made by a guest analyst that with todays economy that 1% growth number was in direct odds with what obamas social agenda was. One or the other was possible, but not both.
Sorry yellowdog, I was hoping more for him to be more of an inspiration to all Americans. I think the one thing he said right was that the senate and congress in general should stay in town and get the job done..
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7365896n&tag=api
Joanna - interesting analogy about the kids homework, from my own experience homework was always assigned the day before unless it was the weekend, term paper or science project. Being the kids of the potus obviously comes with special perks.
In honor of Bev, here is a cut & paste:
The chief economic culprit of President Obama’s Wednesday press conference was undoubtedly “corporate jets.” He mentioned them on at least six occasions, each time offering their owners as an example of a group that should be paying more in taxes.
“I think it’s only fair to ask an oil company or a corporate jet owner that has done so well,” the president stated at one point, “to give up that tax break that no other business enjoys.”
But the corporate jet tax break to which Obama was referring – called “accelerated depreciation,” and a popular Democratic foil of late – was created by his own stimulus package.
read the rest @ http://blog.heritage.org/2011/06/29/obama-blasts-private-jet-tax-breaks-created-by-his-own-stimulus/
Bill T -- Here's a great "platitudes and rhetoric" example:
Define “increase taxes” and how ending tax evasion and corporate welfare is an increase in taxes (and for whom). Define “everything,” because everything would be sales tax, property taxes, and taxing “everything” under the sun, for gawd sakes.
No hyperbole or sound bites there. Like McConnell lying the other day saying “the president's request of us to raise the debt ceiling” when in fact procedure requires the Treasury Secretary to notify the president and then the president to notify congress, which is all that President Obama did—notify per procedural time-line.
Now we know why JS1 is still peddling the talking point about how the president "fails to lead"—the new Republican buzzword. This criticism of congress by the president is precisely to address this ignorance. Let me ‘splain this to you:
Got that? Congress is now responsible, not the president. Also, as noted in the article for this thread, the current deadline is the debt ceiling. Tax reform needs to be done later without this deadline. But ultimately it's been made clear that the GOP/TP does NOT care about the budget. Here’s the real agenda:
The reality is after all the Republicans were forced to support Paul Ryan’s budget, and their popularity plummeted immediately, the GOP/TP is trying to hold the nation hostage in exchange for Democrats puttingtheir necks in a noose just like they have. Not only is cutting trust fund benefits NOT part of the Democratic platform, but Democrats are not thatstupid. Let's just hope the voters see this for what it is--disgusting vile politics to achive radical right-wing social engineering.
Nope, the GOP/TP put their heads in a noose, and if they allow the nation to default, they will hang themselves. Good luck with that Republicans.
John, Tucson, AZ
But the corporate jet tax break to which Obama was referring – called “accelerated depreciation,” and a popular Democratic foil of late – was created by his own stimulus package.
read the rest @ http://blog.heritage.org/2011/06/29/obama-blasts-private-jet-tax-breaks-created-by-his-own-stimulus/
John, John what do expect that is Kochtopus Media Garbage
The Kochtopus is a group of minarchist organizations founded by Charles G. Koch. They include the Cato Institute (which plays a central role in the Kochtopus), Reason Foundation, Property and Environment Research Center, Students for a Libertarian Society, The Libertarian Review, Institute for Humane Studies, Council for a Competitive Economy, HERITAGE FOUNDATION, Federalist Society, and the Mercatus Center at George Mason.
University. http://wikibin.org/articles/kochtopus.html
The proliferation and continued heavy funding of policy institutions such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and the Heritage Foundation threatens to tilt the debate even further to the right on key policy issues and options. These groups flood the media with hundreds of opinion editorials. Their top staff appear as political pundits and policy experts on dozens of television and radio shows across the country And their lobbyists work the legislative arenas, distributing policy proposals, briefing papers, and position statements.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Democracy/ConservThinkTanks.html
Google Cloward Piven strategy. Obama is as radical as the day is long. Our country is collapsing, overburdened with intentional debt. Be careful what you wish for.
True patriot - you make it sound like obama now has no other responsibilty concerning the debt ceiling. That he did his "job".
A sports coach works with his assistants and individual players to develop unity within the team to win games. If two groups of players have differences, the coach steps in to resolve the conflict. He doesn't stand back and say "I already did my job", much like what you think it is acceptable for obama to do.
Perhaps you can explain to us all on why obama (an incumbant) feels that it is of such pressing business to carry on what seemingly is incessent campaigning and fund raising. BTW - did you make your contributions to the presidents lottery for dinner at the WH yet?
Perhaps the following video will shed some light on what obama said during his press conference. Sorry that it isn't a right wing attack on obama or a left wing gushing praise of obama. Rather it is just an observation by a business leader and former CBO director.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/71653348/
MSDNC’s contributor Mark Halperin gets the award for funniest comment of the year on today’s Morning Joe. A few minutes after 6:00 they were discussing Barry’s press conference:
Joe: So Mark, what did you think of the President’s performance yesterday?
Halperin: Are we on a seven second delay?
Joe: Why?
Halperin: Because I think he was kind of a dick yesterday.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe in Albany,
Ever notice that those who make every effort to be the first to post here, have so little substance to their posts.
And then they all congratulate each other on such "great" posts. LOL
Same pattern every day. Some of their posts aren't even posts at all, they simply cut and paste some huge link from Huff Post or some other liberal rag, and maybe write one sentence of their own.
Some really big intellects at work there.
Guys, that isn't a light at the end of the tunnel...it's a TRAIN!...:)
Nice to see Chuck is back in front of the cameras. Seems he took a hiatus during the Weiner debacle where he for some reason was no where to be seen.
But now Chuck seems to spend his time talking about what the House should or shouldn't do, which is unusual because at last look Chuck was in the Senate, the Democratically controlled Senate, where they have not passed a budget in over two years.
Perhaps Chuck should focus on his business and not worry so much about other peoples business.
Well Mr. Obama, you are naive, and just where is the fund raiser you will be attending tonight?
DAVID BROOKS: Tom Coburn is completely right, and Grover Norquist is completely wrong.
If you're going to have a deal, there's going to have to be revenue as part of it. It doesn't mean you have to raise rates, but it does mean you have to raise revenue by closing loopholes. And the loopholes that they're now talking about as part of the budget deal are technical things about closing loopholes on corporate taxes for a plane and things like that.
They're not raising rates. They are not anything that's going to hurt growth. And so, if you're going to do a deal, if you're going to cut the size of government, which will be part of the deal, you have to raise revenue. And Grover is wrong on the economics. He's wrong factually.
He said that only Coburn really wants to raise revenues. I have had several Republican senators say to me, hey, I signed Grover's pledge, but as part of this deal, I know we need to raise rates, and I'm going to go back on it.
And it would be good for the country. It would be bad for Grover's interest group, but it would -- it's absolutely -- Coburn is absolutely right.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/sandb_06-24.html
Besides cutting spending, raising revenue and promoting growth?
What do you suggest that would actually have some traction in the real world?
I think they (and maybe you) better start at least listening to this guy...
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/goptaxes_06-24.html
Sorry MrContrary, defense spending alone is 18% of the budget. Entitlements, like SS and Medicare are 18% and 20% respectively but the rub here is that the revenues for these two programs are designed to go into accounts that fund those programs directly.
The fact that the current administration, as well as all previous ones going back to Reagan, have dipped into the SS trust fund to make up shortfalls in the remaining portion of the US budget does not mean that these programs should be drastically cut as a deficit reduction tactic. Eliminate SS and/or Medicare and the US population will turn on Congress like a rabid dog. SS and Medicare are not giveaways. People have monies taken out of their paychecks and put away so that they can get monies back once they retire.
What is needed is balance, a decrease in expenditures coupled with increased revenues. Democrats have already agreed to 1.2 Trillion in cuts. Republicans have yet to make any moves towards increases in revenues. So who is really holding up progress?
I think that answer has been obvious for the past 30 months and counting!
dangerfield,
Besides cutting spending, raising revenue and promoting growth?
There is nothing else.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
On another thread;
Current payments are at the highest % and current revenues are at the lowest % of GDP since the 1950's...
Did you watch or read the piece?
We can't cut our way out without increasing revenues...
You suggest cutting corporate taxes even more, cutting entitlements, and call any closing of loopholes to raise revenues something that will have "no impact"
If I'm understanding your suggestions; What do you have besides scissors?
So dangerfield-
When's President Obama joining you, me, and Coburn...?
And...
Who's he bringing with him?
Actually, I think Coburn would have a pretty good chance of getting the debt commission Plan through the Senate with the President giving Harry Reid a push.
What could the President do with the House Democrats?
I say get 'em all...Democrats and Republicans, in both Houses...on the record on the debt commission Plan.
But...
The idea's going nowhere without President Obama.
MrC
PBS Newshour on this thread...
MB...and Mr. Simpson and Mr. Bowles? Too few to make a difference I'm afraid.
We have to hope for sanity born of necessity in the final reel...otherwise the guns of August will be a circular firing squad that includes both parties and the American people...
"Guns Of August"...
Nice, dangerfield.
Great read, too.
The President didn't even reference the contents of the Debt Commission report in his speech today. Not one single word. He has had opportunity upon opportunity to endorse some or all of that plan, and he's ignored every bit of it. Instead he stands in front of the press being critical of Congress without providing a plan of his own. Now he'll go back on the campaign trail telling everyone how wonderful he is. Trouble is, less and less people believe him.
Dangerfield, I am listening to Coburn, but I have some questions about the efficacy of simply raising taxes, as I do NOT believe that money will be used to cut the debt. I have a well founded suspicion it will be spent. I somehow do not believe that those increased taxes will be used to cut the debt- and closing loopholes is raising taxes by another name, as investment is now a code word for spending. So, I foresee all those "closed loopholes" funding new "investments".
I do not believe that congress can write legislation that mandates the new funds be used for debt reduction. I believe it would be found unconstitutional, as the line item veto a republican congress gave a democratic president was found.
Frankly, the best way to raise revenues is to promote economic growth, and Obama clearly does not know how that is done.
I would favor implementing the debt commission proposal, as that is a total package.
I do not see it happening.
dangerfield-
Sounds like MrC is talking about...the Plan of President Obama's debt commission. The one he mostly ignores.
Welcome aboard, MrC. The train's going nowhere but we're having lots of fun anyway.
JoAnna-
There is only one plan extant that has the slightest chance of passing Congress.
That is President Obama's debt commission Plan.
Too bad he doesn't seem to understand that.
Obama's presser was nothing more than another lecture by him to Congress. The man has no plan to speak of. He talked of "balanced approaches", "corporate jets", and (the most insane part) his kids doing their homework. The man doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
As you stated, the Debt Commission plan is probably the only plan that can get through Congress. I guess some GOP leader in each House will have to put it into legislation and see if they can get a vote on it. We're certainly not going to get any Democrat or the President to endorse it, those cowards won't take any political risk.
Good luck to us all on this one.
And what a lecture it was!
Channeling Jimmy Carter Obama chides that his daughters do their homework in plenty of time.
This from a man who managed to find an hour or two to devote to the crisis just this week- between campaign stops.
Does he never think about how ridiculous he sounds?
We are in a strange place when the President's own debt commission seems to appeal more to his opponents then to the president and his own party...
Disagree as you will (and you will...) but I believe we will go past the deadline before there is any agreement, but there will be an agreement. They will raise the debt limit, there will be some form of revenue enhancement (yes, closing some corporate loopholes, tightening others and maybe other stuff...) and small business "package", designed to spur growth...
Between now and that eventuality there will be much more grandstanding and kabuki theater to "enjoy" from both sides of the aisle to rival "celebrity rehab" or any summer reality TV show...
Mixed Bag
Well, let's see. Obama thinks we need both revenue increases AND spending cuts, which is at least qualitatively what the commission recommended. The Republicans demand that there be absolutely no revenue increases under any circumstances ever ever ever. The Republicans aren't just ignoring the commission, they are ignoring reality.
And that is about the depth of details you get with Obama. For a man that you say supports what's in the Debt Commission report, he sure doesn't have any words of any kind that indicates that he even believes that report exists.
Obama: "We needs some tax increases, and cuts". That's it. Never any more details from the man. His "plan" would fit any plan.
sayitaintso- your time line on SS being raided is slightly off. LBJ was the first raider when he mixed the SS trust fund in with the general fund. Reagan and tip Oneil put a bandaid fix in on SS in the 80's and everyone else has added bandaids to it ever since.
MrContrary
Some Republicans are willing to go along with that, but not the leadership. When Mitch McConnell and John Boehner dishonestly call ending loopholes and tax breaks "increasing taxes on the American people", it shows they aren't serious about the budget deficit.
"When Mitch McConnell and John Boehner dishonestly call ending loopholes and tax breaks "increasing taxes on the American people", it shows they aren't serious about the budget deficit."
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
That's either naive or you just don't understand the process...it's THEATER!
In this sad era of hyper-polarization and a 24/7 partisan media,, both sides must play to their "audience" or risk being seen as weak, so they play chicken and talk like tough guys until the last possible second before what is inevitable compromise so they can both claim that they went to the mat for YOU, their hyper-partisan constituents...it sucks but it is what it is and those who cover that stuff for a living "get it"...
DAVID BROOKS: When McConnell and Cantor and those guys and Boehner are talking, that's part of the show. We're in the middle of show season.
And the -- Cantor walked out of this Biden commission.
JIM LEHRER: Yes.
DAVID BROOKS: That was part of the show. It was part of the show to get -- to get Obama to come forward with a plan and have some meetings, which he's doing.
It was part of the show to tell people in the Republican Party, we're really fighting for you. We're really fighting for you. It was part for the Democratic shooting, so they could say, hey, look, this is really blowing up. We're really fighting for you.
And so the question to me -- and this is the crucial question -- is, when they say no revenue, are they saying that now and then, at the last moment, on Aug. 2, or whatever it is going to be, they're going to say, we fought hard, we got a lot, we held tough, and we really got a great deal but then...
JIM LEHRER: You're going to have to do a little revenue stuff?
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, as part of that.
JIM LEHRER: Yes.
DAVID BROOKS: And so I -- the question is, how much of that is 100 percent conviction, how much of that is part of the show? And I confess I don't know the answer to that.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/sandb_06-24.html
Nobody does and that is the scary part....
what the government needs to do is replace the monies from which past presidents have dipped from ss by closing the loopholes and no longer giving away monies to corporations.
so don't raise the taxes; BUT close the loopholes, and no more subsidies or tax credits. people, these wealthy corporations are reaming us from each end -- in front and behind, due to cleverly smithed tax rules and legislation. put your foot down, already!
When will the Mainstream Media cover the actual news? Today's Republican Party wants to Repeal the entire United States Government while waving the flag with the stars and stripes. The Republican Party does not like Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, OSHA, EPA, the Minimum Wage, the US Postal Service, or any federal regulation of the banking industry. Hell, the Republicans don't even want to inspect the meat, cheese and milk that we consume. They don't want to approve baby foord!
I want to know what it is exactly that any Republican candidate likes about the United States Government. Come on! Be Honest! Step Forward and let's hear from some Republican.
The Republican Senate agreed to march in lock step to oppose everything that President Obama proposed so that they could run in the 2012 election on the platform that they had made his administration fail. You heard it it in the New Hampshire Debate. They bragged that they made Obama Fail! The country voted in 2010 and elected a Republican Majority in the United States House of Representatives and the House has not presented ONE Bill to the Senate with a plan that would provide jobs and employment to the American People.
What is the difference between America and the United States? Let's hear somebody ask the question and let's hear some Republican Politician answer the Question!
If you want to see what Government Programs can do, look at what used to be called the "American Dream". The United States Government took a bunch of kids from the Depression of the 1930's and after a destructive war called World War II, a Republican President, Eisenhower, working with a Democratic Congress, began a series of public works programs leaving our nation with an Interstate Highway system, with bridges and dams across this nation. A Supreme Court integrated our nation's schools and restaurants and public facilities. The GI Bill initially offered free public education and our state universities provided low-cost, affordable education to all. Workers in union plants and factories could plan on retiring with previously unbelievable wealth after a 25 - 30 years of working and buying into their company's pension plans.
Thirty years of trickle-down economics have destroyed that structure. Our bridges, dams and highway are collapsing. Our children who complete their education are emerging with student loans that have effectively restored a 21st Feudal system with workers struggling to pay off their debts with little or no hope of retiring hat debt before they begin to face the prospect of facing the cost of educating their children.
Government can work, but only when people who believe in the possible benefits of government are elected. When working people believe the lies of Republican politicians and vote against their own economic interests and vote to transfer more of this nation's wealth to the people who have more than they have earned, then Americans lose hope.
This is where our nation is now. Our people have voted against their interests for too long.
NM - Ray Great Post - too bad the rethugs are out to destroy this country - they wave the flag and then refuse to compromise at all - Success is the art of compromise - and they obviously don't get it. Or rather they wish all the have's get it and the have not's don't get it.
NMRay, Your post spotlights the slow destruction of the middle class. I hear it in the fear, frustration, anger of many of the posters here. Slogans of "take back our country" points to that sense of loss, something is very wrong.As we gear up for another cycle of elections I hope that people do stop and think how does this candidate want to work at governing to the benefit of all not just the few.
NM other than just expressing a personal opinion, got any links to the congressional voting records that substantiate your slanted observations?
Sounds a lot like you want to have a one party system of government. Seem to recall that such systems were tried out in the 20th century and were proved not to be viable for the well being of their populace. North korea immediatley comes to mind, but I am sure you can come up with other success stories of one party rule.
american, go back and read NM post. Then read a history book. Think you need more background than a link on the internet.
You point of a one party system and reference to a inherited dictatorship in N Korea has nothing to do with the discussion.
right -- we are one country of many. while we have difference of thought and opinion, we should always remember, we are one country, despite our many points of view, and our welfare as a united country should always be the priority.
Obama referenced "Corporate jets" numerous times in his news conference. Seems he was very critical of the government subsidies for those jets and he wants to eliminate those subsidies. Apparently these are the very same subsidies Obama's 2009 Reinvestment and Recovery Act bestowed on those very same jets.
Source: http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/news/economic-stimulus-bill-accelerated-depreciation-on-aircraft.html
So which is it Obama? You for it, or against it?
What I find disturbing JS1, is the seeming ignorance of history.
Back in 1990, one of the "deficit reduction" measures the Democratic congress forced GHW Bush to accept was a "luxury tax". It hit the boat building business particularly. After all, who could defend not hitting the "rich" who were buying yachts?
One little issue overlooked was that such purchases are as subject to the rules of elasticity as every other good. Such taxes, as well, are easy to avoid- one simply does not make the purchase.
Thus, those hurt were middle class- as the boat building industry paid the price for such ill conceived tax policy.
Might as well hit the industry that produces private jets- and those that supply them. Those workers will have a lot of company on the unemployment lines.
With Obama, if you have a job, you're his enemy. With Obama, if you need to be on the government dole, you're a victim. And anyone that makes more than Obama thinks you should, you're a thief.
Bachmann is REALLY having a bad day when nojo won't even defend her. I couldn't read the rest of her blather, as it appeared lacking in facts and substance. I'm sure sources were accurately cited that reinforced her opinions**snark off**.
snark this
http://www.boatbanter.com/showthread.php?t=20349
Tens of thousands of jobs lost. Those inintended consequences. They will get you every time.
I am sure the Americans living in tent cities have real compassion for the YACHT industry and those yachters that their next new shiny object, in 1992.
PS. Did you catch that the article was from 1996 and the blog was from 2004? Might I suggest CURRENT events? I'm sure that won't fit your narrative. PS. That was the first Bush recession, or do you have NO historical reference for any of the drivel you spew?
Snark that.
He's against it, but in order to get Republicans to vote for the stimulus he had to give them what they wanted: tax cuts for rich people.
Really?
Seems to me no republicans voted for the stimulus. Seems to have been a big talking point in 2009- not so much in 2010, when it was changed to a four letter word.
it really is odd no jo, that your want to complain that it's all President Obama's fault for not giving the republicans what they want, but then if he compromises with the Republican'ts and gets a bill passed, you tout that no republican'ts voted for it because it was bad policy, or it didn't work or some such nonsense... so if bad bills with right wing crap in them don't work, why should we blame President Obama for trying to work with them. or should we blame the republican'ts for not trying or should we blame the rebuplican'ts for bad policies.
You're right Smitty. Obama should just walk away from it and ignore the problem. He's just the President, he has nothing to do with it anyway, at least that's what he implied at his press conference, it's a problem for Congress according to Obama. No use him trying, right Smitty? He should just head back out on the campaign trail and let the chips fall where they may. What could possibly go wrong?
it is no wonder you are ignored by so many... if you can read... I can give him credit for trying (within the powers vested in him by the constitution) to work with Congress to get bills passed and signed into law.
never mind, you are obviously not going to see my point anyway. good by and lots of luck in your next life as a troll.
I do not know what you are talking about, Smitty.
An allegation was made that republicans put the jet language in the stimulus bill- an unfounded allegation, I might add.
I merely pointed out that stimulus passed with no republican votes- so I doubt that language originated with them.
And that, throughout 2009, democrats trumpeted that no republicans voted for stimulus, but in 2010, try, themselves, refused to refer to stimulus, preferring to call it ARRA, and not really mentioning their support thereof.
Seems it became a dirty word to the electorate.
Oh, those unintended consequences!
no joe, no bo, nj
Wrong. The stimulus got the votes of a handful of moderate Republicans in the Senate ("moderate" Republicans being those who don't foam at the mouth).
Wow, it's a JS1-NoJo tag team today!
And for all of the things Obama said, they have picked out corporate jets and the President's daughters' homework. Amazing!
it's because that's probably what they're snarking about on faux news
So my best guess is that the republican plan to balance the budget is to simply cut as many programs as they can until they reach over two trillion dollars. So every domestic program is on the table, Education, EPA, FDA, Medicare, Medicaid, oh but not defense, and by all means NO TAX INCREASES on anyone or anything. Do some of you really think this is a good plan. I mean really? I am not even close to a millionaire or billionaire and I can certainly afford a few more tax dollars coming out of my check, I already make enough and have enough to buy what I want when I want, raising my taxes a bit will not change my spending habits in any way and I doubt it will for those that are better off than I. Where is the shared sacrifice and if keeping taxes low creates jobs, where are the freaking jobs, some of you really need to cop a clue.
I for one like the idea of the government spending less money than they take in on taxes. You said you could afford to spend a little more in taxes without changing your spending habits; do you think the government can simply be given more money and that will change their current spending habits? It sounds to me like you live withing your means. Congratulations, I applaud you. You are a very wise person when it comes to fiscal responsibility. I personally don't think you should have to pay more in taxes simply because you can afford it. If that is your mindset, then would it be ok to take as much of your money right up untill you couldn't afford it? That means you don't get a new car as long as the old one runs. You can't buy that new gas grill because you don't need it. Any chance this would hurt the companies that sell new cars or gas grills? Oh, that's right, big corporations like GM and Charbroil are the ones responsible for our debt because they pay their top executives too much money.
Retired military? So are you getting by on half what you made while you are active duty? My retired friends are all working. I know, let's cut the defense budget and see what happens to military retirements.
I am with you Retired.
In answer to your inquiry I would suggest that the shared sacrifice disappeared in the republican GREED and worship of a dollar.
Makes no sense - how much better are they going to eat if they have to pay taxex at the pre-Bush rates? How much better are they going to dress? How will their lives be affected?
On the other hand, the lives of Americans in the lower and middle classes will be substanitally affected by eliminating our social programs, perhaps their very lives may be jeopardized. But the wing-nuts and teabaggers just don't get it. They are completely out of touch with reality and with people.
The class division promulgated by the repub-nuts seems to promote and push us toward civil war. They are harmful to my country, and I for one strongly resent it.
Really?
"On the other hand, the lives of Americans in the lower and middle classes will be substantially affected by eliminating our social programs, perhaps their very lives may be jeopardized."
Are you saying that middle class Americans use government provided social services to the extent that taking them away might kill them? That sounds like an exaggeration to me. Who are you trying to scare? Middle class Americans?
Please show me where any Republican wants to "Eliminate" any social program.
Read Ryan's healthcare plan...
I have read a lot of it and cannot find any instance where a social program is eliminated. Please point me to one. If you can't than I can drop this subject as it is obvious that this is simply a scare technique to attempt to get people to vote for an inefficient Democratic president. If that is your plan, good luck, I think most people are actually smarter than to believe that chicken little is correct without actually looking up.
Any chance you are willing to answer my other questions?
"Are you saying that middle class Americans use government provided social services to the extent that taking them away might kill them? That sounds like an exaggeration to me. Who are you trying to scare? Middle class Americans?"
Re-read the thread, JC.
Retired made the observation that the Republican plan includes cutting Medicare and Medicaid, among other cuts; the snippit you addressed alludes to that particular statement. Thus you seem to be fighting a battle which does not exist in reality.
"Are you saying that middle class Americans use government provided social services to the extent that taking them away might kill them?"
YES, I am. If you truly believe it is an "exaggeration" designed as a scare tactic, I can provide names of people I know or am aquainted with who do depend upon these social programs for necessary medications and healthcare.
The fact that you and the Republicans hold the position that social program cuts or eliminations may be life threatening to some American citizens is an exaggeration and only a Democratic scare tactic, ipso facto proves the contention that Republicans are out of touch with both reality AND the people.
Rest the case; point proven!
(Dems:1 - Reps:0)
OK, so changing the subject means you win. Congratulations. You win.
Which program is going to be eliminated and which Republican said he wants to do that?
Here, I'll make one up too: The Democrats just want to raise taxes on the rich so that they can spend the money on grooming poodles. What a bunch of idiots. Poodles will do fine with longer hair, why don't they spend that money on poor kids and Grandma? Why do Democrats hate poor kids and Grandma?
Now it's my turn.
I know a middle class person that does not rely on any social service programs. I also know a destitute person that only relies on his family instead of government help. Both are living and surviving. HAH! I win this one.
Reps 1 - Dems 1
typical....
Seriously JC? Where have you been?
Medicare is to be cut and replaced with vouchers. Planned Parenthood is being defunded as we speak. Support for all kinds of health and food programs for the poor are being cut. All of these will result in increased mortality, particularly among the elderly, children, the poor. All of these cuts are courtesy of the Republicans/Tea Party.
Give up fielden - I have.
Unfortunately you used the word vouchers, so in the wing-nut understanding you've changed the subject.
We can't communicate with those who either can't or won't comprehend. Frustrating, but has come to be expected from those this far out of touch.
jcg -- conservatives have been chopping away at all public programs since i can remember. as a teen i heard people saying that thanks to reagan, even mothers have to work. i live in california and i remember, during reagan's administration, people with mental illnesses were released from their happy farm and populated the streets. i can honestlly say reagan began his trickle down in california and shared with the rest of the union.
education. california, in the early/mid60's, was high up on the education ladder. gov reagan in the late 60's/mid70's, education went down. you see how we've benefited from republican, conservative values??????
For you right wingers out there that seem to think that those folks that depend on the Safety Net programs live high on the hog I challenge you to live on what I do. I was hit by a car and had my neck broken and had to have it massively rebuilt to the point that I am totally unemployable now. It took me 5 years of fighting for Social Security benefits where I lived on ZERO income other than foodstamps, surviving only because I had good friends that allowed me to live with them. When I did, Finally, get by SSI benefits I was awarded a whole whopping $750/mo and $108/mo in foodstamps. I challenge YOU to live on that, Rent, Food, Power, Internet etc. without accessing any other money besides that. I am also on Medicaid through the Social Security Admin for my medical costs, which even for my medications is a huge help. Cutting ANY of these programs would put it to the point that I would Not be able to survive, I barely make it as it is.
I DARE you to try to live within my means, and then come back and tell me that I have it good. YOU try to live on less than $10k/yr...I bet that you just plain CANNOT do it without outside help!
B. Hang in there.
Your challenge will go unanswered because they refuse to believe you exist in America. All they can see through their Tea-colored glasses is another dollar in their own pocket. This is exactly what I mean by out of touch with both reality and people. Never mind truth and the facts, they must keep spouting their wingnut illogic to convince themselves of their ideals.
We can't allow them in Washington D.C., and working together, we won't, no matter how loudly, how often, or how much they keep repeating the lies. American people see through it and WILL NOT FALL FOR THE RHETORICAL SALES PITCH ANY MORE!
Still nothing, when will we stop finger pointing and get to serious negotiations. If the Republicans do get elected, will they support all these cuts. What will they do about the poor in this country? I would like to know what then?.Do they have a plan? Are they going to miraculously get all the jobs back? If they know how then why are they not sharing this information? How can I make a informed decision to vote when I do not know what the plan is. I know I hate the Ryan health plan that the Republican party supports. I know I would not want to see children starving because their parents are irresponsible. I would not like to see kids not get the chance to go to school. I would not like to see my family members working in dangerous situations because we do not want to provide adequate safety restrictions. I know we can improve on most of these things but taking them away is just wrong.
barb, you've answered your own questions. look at what happened in wisconsin, florida, michigan, ohio, new jersey, etc. all of those republicans, knowing the type of working people they had, campaigned on beautiful promises, but upon election, went right into breaking down the working class... congress is no different
We have the best president in the world! Keep up the good work! Don't let them go home until they reach an agreement.
All of you are a bunch of suckers. Both sides are playing you like a grand piano. The President has had 3 years with no improvement and a pile of more debt. Congress has not gotten the job done as well. Go ahead sheep, keep following your party right over the cliff. Both sides suck. Here is how I am voting: A new President in 2012, and new representation in my district. If you are against me think about this, my vote will cancel out your vote. Goodbye all of you fonts.
Mitch, That is two a half years. Also, that old line of, "my vote will cancel out your vote," is pretty much a dumb a$$ statement.
mitch, it's really hard to get anything done when at first, the conservative minority fillibusters, and now the conservative house works two weeks, then rests one. what the conservatives have done is try to tell you who you can marry, legislate a woman's uterus, and that wonderful ryan plan, as well as still trying to kill any more entitlement programs we have all been paying into since we've all started working.
just remember, congress has the power of the purse. what has congress done about economy??? change your reps, this is hardly our president's fault.
Weeper of the House T-Shirt Wow! This is great!
www.dccc.org
Now if they take food stamps as payment, you're all set!!
What a bigoted response, someone should look in the mirror when attacking another poster,...
I mean it's ALL the 'out'RAGE these days, no?
So Clara, how is LibsRUs II coming along? You figure out those complicated privacy features yet? I'm certain a manual is available.
But remember Clara, nothing is private on the web. Nothing. Ask Anthony Weiner if you don't believe it.
Have a nice day Clara.
JoAnnaSmith1
You seem to specialize in stupid insults, don't you, JoAnna?
Is it just me or what??????????????????????
NO ONE is responding to JoAnnaSmith1.
Way to go Libs R us
Why would anyone waste valuable time & energy on a paid RNC pinhead? lol
I've found that utilizing the ignore author feature with these morons makes this a much more enjoyable site!
OK I made one response and almost immediately regretted trying. Please forgive a soul with good intentions.
I will be more careful -- new rule----- ignore first and save my sanity.
I tend to agree Feisty.
I attempted to hold legitimate dialogue with her yesterday on another thread; quoted a portion of a news article from a right wing cite which attempted to bash our President over these budget/debt limit negotiations and asked 4 simple questions. Unfortunately JoAnna could not provide any answers, but only cut & paste then follow up with the same old, tired, overused, stale t-bag/wing-nut rhetorical talking points which did not address the issues at all. I see by postings here that things have not changed since yesterday - just the same ol' RNC talking points spewed repeatedly, without substance or relevance to the issue(s). Meanwhile, my 4 simple querries still go unanswered (as I had anticipated they would.)
Funny how the Repubs hate questions that shine a light on their true positions isn't it....
No forgiveness necessary!
You see, these trolls are now paid by the number of responses they receive instead of word count!
Do you're part to save our Democracy and STARVE a troll today! ;o)
@NASAYT - YUP! You got the one trick ponys number alright!
I'm telling ya all - you should check out the ignore author feature, makes wading through the bullsh!t all the more easier ;o)
i think a lot of folks are just ignoring js1
With good reason - you should hear her when the med cart is late! lol
Wow, the FR bimbo squad is out in force today. No substance, just insults, as usual.
I understand that the Republicans/Tea Party think their position is correct. I hope they are willing to grant that we Democrats believe our position is correct. So if we are willing to make concessions that we do not think are the right answer but are willing to do in a spirit of compromise, why aren't the Republicans willing to do the same?
because cromagnons still exist on the top dog, p!ss higher than you mentality. also republicans, i mean cro-mags are known to have an unusually enlarged amygdala, which is why they like to use all that fear mongering ...
Too bad sooo sad, the debt ceiling is not getting raised, sorry suckers you lose.
If you had the capacity to understand MACRO level cause and effect, you'd understand that WE ALL LOSE in this scenario.
But have no fear,...constitutional law may just prevail.
Sorry to rain on your 'parade'.
ponyo5:
And I hope our social programs do not end either...
So - maybe we just cut defense and invite Al Qaida to camp out in YOUR back yard?
sucka!
You must be part of the dumba$$ 37% that doesn't think the debt ceiling should be raised.
The extra amount some may pay in taxes pales in comparison with the amount of wealth and money they will lose if the debt ceiling is not raised and the defecit and national debt dealt with in a balanced approach that involves spending cuts in everything, and increased revenue. Of course people like JAS1 and her intellectually impotent bretheren don't get this because it is clear they just don't know simple math.
Correct, I am not on welfare how about you dumb@!$%#. I work for a living, never lost a moment of work time in 10 years. Not into entitlements. LOL
That is very fortunate for you, but for many who with no fault of their own depend on a little help, some work the system yes, and it makes me mad too. I would like to find ways to get the ones who cheat off the gravy train, and think of ways to pull others ups so they will not be dependent on the government. Many say if they go back to work they lose their benefits, it is a vicious circle. The child welfare offices are swamped, many have such case loads they never even get to see any of their clients (THE CHILDREN) If you would spend some time just to see what goes on in their poor lives, I do not feel you could want to deny them the basics.
sure, but your paycheck notes you pay into it anyway, you get them once you retire. how's that a bad thing.
Well, why skimp on this debt ceiling thingy??
Let's just raise it to....say......100 TRILLION so it wont keep bothering us.
Then we can all party hardy till were all dead. Let the future generations figure it out. LOL
ChuckU Shumer, the harplugs must have been put too deeply into your skull.
pony,
I can see you are not the bright one in the room.
wow I just read from top of these posts and I must say this is the silliest bunch of liberal robot talking point nonsense I've seen since I turned off MSLSD the Government Controlled Media......
Nov 2012 real hope and change is coming - it will all be over soon......
Apparently Mr. Obama does not consider himself to be a leader, since he has provided no leadership to get a deal done. Sideline spectator is obviously more to his liking and capability. He should be telling his fellow Dems to propose a balanced budget amendment. He should also be telling them that they need to agree to cuts in Soc Sec, Medicare, etc.. At the same time if they have any chance of getting a tax increase they have to tie it directly and exclusively to using the funds to pay down and eliminate the debt. But the best Obama has been able to offer is continued deficit spending for decades and tax increases that are not tied to exclusively paying down the debt.
Seems to me Mr. Obama needs to give himself a lecture about leadership. He told Us he would not kick the can down the road and tough choices had to be made. But here he is, once again, proposing a budget that kicks the can down the road and makes no tough choices. Mr Obama, your bluff has been called!!!!
seems to me more people should understand how their government works...
ryans plan doesn't even begin to pay down the deficit until some ten years into its process...that's real useful
President O'Hypocrite lecturing about Leadership? hahahahahahahaahahahahah.........priceless
Alan NJ Obama agreed to extending ALL the tax cuts because the Republicans rightly refused to end only the ones on :"the wealthy"! I don't understand the term "tax breaks for the wealthy" except that it sound good to the 97-98% nonwealthy. Before the Bush tax cuts 25% paid no federal income tax. After, nearly 50% pay none. Add to this negative rates on some (think refundable tax credits)! If the top 2-3% pay over 50% of the taxes, why would not any fair cuts return a like amount to this group? If thes tax cuts were truly "for the wealthy" then eliminate them! No, not on just the wealthy but for all! Oh, no! This isn't fair to the nonwealthy. So much for tax cuts for the wealthy! Even if you eliminate "tax breaks for the wealthy" you raise 70-80B per year. In the face of a 1.5T deficit, this is almost insignificant. Taxes will have to raised but raise them on all taxpayers. Even with a top tax rate of 35%, there is nothing fair about almost 50% paying none! It is not surprising that in that poll 80% favored raising taxes on "the wealthy" ie someone else.
You obviously do not realize that that so called 50% that pay no taxes are MOSTLY children under the age of 18 and retired folks who have already paid taxes all their lives? The remainder are those who were thrown out of work during the Bush Admin, people whose wages are so low that they fall below the poverty level (but still pay the payroll taxes) and stay at home Moms.
That 50% argument is a bunch of bull and you folks know it
How about the majority of Billion Dollar Profit Corporations and wealthy that have armies of tax lawyers that end up paying less than 20% to Nothing in taxes as well?? You support Welfare for the Wealthy??
I wish you libs could do simple math. If congress enacted EVERYTHING Barry has proprosed in oil company and millionaire tax increases, it would take a 1000 years to pay of just one year of his spending.
HIS spending ... make no mistake. we are paying one way or the other, but please at least have the decency to admit the republicans had kept the two wars off budget. all HE did was acknowledge those costs which pushed our budget deficits through the bloody roof.
Herman You exaggerate but you get the idea!
Do some fact checking people before you open your mouth!
MY party, the GOP gang of thieves, want to destroy this country with more tax breaks! Say it isn't so???? Sorry! Koch Brothers are the #1 contributor to the GOP! Next, Wall Street thugs, Bankers Row, Lard of Oil, Corporate Welfare Queens! The GOP House and Senate are BOUGHT AND PAID FOR!!!!! Same thing with a few Dems who have Big Lard Oil in their backyard! Louisana and Nebraska Senate Dems; etc.
McConnell is a Gangster leader and weasel! Send him to the ward! The insane ward! Azzhole!!
Bonehead Boehner? A cop-out dried out piece of leather! NO common sense! Stupid is as stupid gets!
Eric Cantor? Crybaby! Can't be a man and a leader too! Too much for this smuck!
As a Republican voter, I can tell you that everyone will blame the GOP if they do not raise the debt ceiling!
Signed a Responsible Republican
Behonest; The wealthy only pay 6-7% of taxes! Look it up!