Nice to see the NY Times has determined the unethical dealings of Justice Clarence Thomas needed to be brought to the light of day.

Let’s not forget his wife Ginny receiving 600+K from the Heritage Foundation & Justice Thomas failure to disclose this income as required by law for the time span of 2003-2007.

Then, there’s the all expense 4 day junket in Palm Springs, which Clarence & Ginny attended & WAS paid for by the billionaire Koch Brothers who use those billions to finance conservative causes. Keep in mind the explanation offered by Clarence was this was a ‘brief drop by’. Really? Most of the working poor today call that a VACATION if they can manage to swing it!

Although the Supreme Court is not bound by the code, justices have
said they adhere to it. Legal ethicists differed on whether Justice Thomas’s
dealings with Mr. Crow pose a problem under the code. But they agreed that one
facet of the relationship was both unusual and important in weighing any
ethical implications: Justice Thomas’s role in Mr. Crow’s donation for the
museum.

The code
says judges “should not personally participate” in raising money for charitable
endeavors, out of concern that donors might feel pressured to give or entitled
to favorable treatment from the judge. In addition, judges are not even supposed
to know who donates to projects honoring them.

Read the
entire story @ http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2011%2F06%2F19%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2F19thomas.html&ei=LcIHTqj1OIHdgQfR6IDEDQ&usg=AFQjCNFlRxL4MGVlvegNNKrB8vtuI82WWg

The more that is discovered about Clarence, the more apparent it becomes this man isn’t fit to serve on the highest court in the land – let alone open a law office in a strip mall with a phone number of 1-800-SO-SUE ME!

I think this says it ALL in a nutshell and the disgrace that Clarence has brought to the court needs to continue to be front page news until he does the ‘honorable’ thing and steps down OR is forced to resign!

There
have been alarming reports of justices – most notably Justices Antonin Scalia,
Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito – attending political events and using their
position to fundraise for organizations. These activities would be prohibited
if the justices were required to abide by the Judicial Conference Code of
Conduct, which currently applies to all other federal judges. On
these issues the code is quite clear. Canon 4C states that “a judge should not
personally participate in fund-raising activities, solicit funds for any
organization, or use or permit the use of the prestige of the judicial office
for that purpose.” Additionally, in Canon 5 the code states, “[a] judge must
refrain from all political activity.” While we understand that the Supreme
Court is unique by its very nature, we do not believe there should be one set
of guidelines for Supreme Court justices and stricter standards for all others
judges.

The
Supreme Court possesses the incredible power to interpret or even strike down
laws they deem inconsistent with the Constitution. America trusts them with
this power because justices must come to each case without a personal or
financial stake in the outcome. Recent revelations about Justice Thomas
accepting tens of thousands of dollars’ worth of gifts from individuals and
organizations who often have an interest in matters before the courts calls
into question the Court’s impartiality. Canon 4D of the Code of Conduct
incorporates regulations providing that “[a] judicial officer or employee shall
not accept a gift from anyone who is seeking official action from or doing
business with the court.” Yet
Justice Thomas received a gift valued at $15,000 from an organization that had
a brief pending before his Court at the very moment they gave him the gift.
Incidents such as these undermine the integrity of the entire judiciary, and
they should not be allowed to continue.

Murphy is now inviting the public to co-sign his letter. You can do so here.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06/23/252255/murphy-letter-thomas/

Why would women vote Republican?

I have high regard for women. The majority of women work a 40 hour work week and are usually paid 20% less than men. After work they become soccer moms, fix dinner, do the dishes, and help the kids with their homework. Then they do it all over again the next day. On weekends it's shopping, doing the laundry and clean the house while the significant other mows the lawn, followed by a round of golf or playing computer games.

As a general rule there are many things women can do better than men: they are more social (two men can sit side-by-side for hours and never say a word), they multi-task better, pay more attention to detail and listen to alternative solutions rather than following a linear line of thinking as men often do.

But is has become very apparent that the Republican Party does not view women as I do. The party of old white guys are more into control of women. They oppose equal pay for women, do not want to give them freedom of choice regarding abortion, and, Heaven forbid, have a woman as their immediate supervisor.

Women's priorities are often different than men. They care about diet, eating healthy foods and the health of their children and themselves. It is here that the Republican Party is, without question, are mean-spirited.

Republicans want to cut the special supplemental nutritional programs for women, infants, and children (WIC program). Several states, (including Indiana) want to defund Planned Parenthood, thus denying millions of women basic health care services. Abortions are already exempt from federal funding; it's about denying women basic medical services.

The Paul Ryan "vouchercare" system turns Medicare into a block grant program. Under the Ryan "kill Medicare" plan the average senior female would have to spend her entire social security benefits to pay for Medicare coverage.

It certainly is a mystery why any female would vote for a Republican who is intent on marginalizing women.

Fesity:

The GOP/TP fund raiser pretending to by a SCOTUS Justice has to go. They can take Posser with them he is also in the news - was caught choking a female judge - See my post below. It appears he has in the past had similar despicable behavior.

What is it with our Judges (all levels)? Are they not supposed to uphold the Law? Are they not supposed to be of strong moral and ethical principles? Looks like more of them are acting like the thugs they are supposed to be protecting us from.

Good morning Gang

Ron, Feisty , and Navy your posts are a great stat to refute Republican LIES.

Ron:

I could not agree with you more nor could I have written it any better. The GOP/TP Party is on this crusade to make women "Second Class Citizens". They think they should have NO control of their reproductive rights and they think they are worth less in the work place.

They really think all women belong in the home cleaning, doing the laundry, cooking dinner, and popping out babies with absolutely NO voice in any decision. You will so what I say or get out of MY house is how they treat women.

For the life of me I cannot figure how any women who has any self respect would support the New GOP/TP Party.

Good to see that Obama managed to drag himself away from campaigning long enough to at least take a casual look into the economic problems of the country. It is obviously a big bother to him, but maybe he can finally go on the record as to who he wants to raise taxes on. It's obvious he has no clue what he is doing, but maybe there is one economist in his administration that isn't a pin-head academic that might have some real world advise for him that he can parrot into the cameras.

Teapublican woman = Stepford Wife!

Morning to ya Bev! ;o)

Navy,

The attack on the female judge is unconscionable. Why wasn't he charged? Did the female judge not bring charges against him? If he has a history of this, he should really take a leave of absence and get anger management help. Yet , the people of WI voted for him in the special elections.

BTW, if you remember, I've always said we have BOTH a revenue and spending problem and could not agree with you more.

Good day...nice talking with you over the weekend.

Way to go Folks. To put it bluntly, the Republicans are nothing more than destroyers of the poor and middle class.

If they get their way, there will most certainly be two classes, the rich and the poor. Come on Republicans, pull your heads out of your rear ends and think for once on what your policies are doing to people and our country.

The attack on the female judge is unconscionable. Why wasn't he charged?

That's a VERY good question, Groucho. In any other situation, Prosser would be sitting in a jail cell. Normally, Wisconsin law enforcement has a no tolerance policy for this kind of stuff. Prosser initially claimed when the facts came out the anonymous tipsters would be discredited. Well, the justice herself is hardly an anonymous tipster, and the facts are exactly as originally leaked. Prosser belongs in jail, and certainly off the court. His disrespect for women is now more than apparent, and he does not have the appropriate temperament to be in the position he holds. I've seen temperamental justices before, so that's not news, but this beats everything.

Before anyone accuses me of bias, which I know you inevitably will, please remember that I was among the earliest to call for Anthony Weiner's resignation. Prosser has to go. And I say this, knowing full well that Scott Walker will appoint his replacement.

This matters.

Ron Indiana: It certainly is a mystery why any female would vote for a Republican who is intent on marginalizing women

Maybe it's because we women see the Democrats running the country into economic ruin. Because without a vibrant economy, every single social program you list will disappear.

Ron Indiana

The Paul Ryan "vouchercare" system turns Medicare into a block grant program. Under the Ryan "kill Medicare" plan the average senior female would have to spend her entire social security benefits to pay for Medicare coverage.

Personally, dislike the voucher program also but Medicare will go broke in 2016 or before if some corrective legislation is not passed to fix loophole in the HCR laws. Obama and Biden both have said that the system needs fixing.

Haven't heard any specific plans, other than Ryan's, on just how we do that.

Have you.

Re the Prosser incident: It looks like the Judicial Commission is investigating.

http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_0eccd0ea-9f33-11e0-b4f1-001cc4c03286.html

Several sources have confirmed that Prosser grabbed Justice Ann Walsh Bradley, of whom several people I know think very highly, in a choke hold after she demanded that he leave her office. One account says that she was rushing towards him, and that might justify putting out his hands to stop her if he felt threatened.

But how that excuses a choke hold around her neck is hard for me to understand.

AM: Well, the justice herself is hardly an anonymous tipster, and the facts are exactly as originally leaked.

Just like with Weiner though, the truth has a habit of getting out. If this did happen, indeed Prosser needs to go. But the Democrats are not above playing dirty tricks to get their way. See the Democratic state legislators abandoning their duties and fleeing the state for details. This may just be another smear attempt by the Democrats.

Either way, the truth will soon come out.

AM: Several sources have confirmed that Prosser grabbed Justice Ann Walsh Bradley

Then why isn't Prosser in jail? Something isn't adding up.

There's an unquestionable pattern of rage with Judge Prosser. This isn't the first time he's assaulted a woman, albeit verbally.

Madison - As the deeply divided state Supreme Court wrestled over whether to force one member off criminal cases last year, Justice David Prosser exploded at Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson behind closed doors, calling her a "bitch" and threatening to "destroy" her

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jsonline.com%2Fnews%2Fstatepolitics%2F118310479.html&ei=H4cITvTUEKPo0QHqqanmCw&usg=AFQjCNGZxPEWop8UQhvFedZD3Vw9PV8pFg

Who knows? When the dust settles maybe him & Clarence can form a partnership together...

I can see the sign on the door now - Dewey. Screwem & Howe.

Want to know how Obama managed to add almost $4 trillion to the debt?

The Washington Post had a pretty good story on a piece of it. Shockingly,(of course, I am being facetious), his multiple-billion dollar clean energy projects got their winners and losers chosen by virtue of who gave the most to the Obama campaign!

One of the winners was a company named Solyndra- a Silicon Valley based producer of solar panels. Not only did they get $535 million in loan guarantees, they got invaluable PR help- everybody from Obama to Biden to Energy Secretary Chu showed up for photo ops extolling their virtues.

Too bad independent auditors had previously discovered that the coMpany was circling the drain.

Their product, "easily installed" solar panels, is both over priced and inferior to their competitors' product. A report on that salient fact was available before they became the first company to benefit from the green energy giveaway programs. So, how did they manage this feat?

George Kaiser, who has a controlling interest in the venture capital group that stood to lose it's investment in the company, was a key fundraisers for Obama.

Within weeks of the Obama company visit, at which he announced that Solyndra would use the monies to hire 1000 workers, Solyndra's IPO was withdrawn- all the Obama hoopla could not counter analyst's work. Therefore, Solyndra has closed one plant- at a cost of 127 jobs, and put plant expansion plans on hold

All this means that those "loan guarantees" will have to become "taxpayer funds expended"- that is what a lain guarantee is- a guarantee that the loan will be paid- and, we are on the hook for another $10.3 million in financing. The Import Export bank of the U.S., (that's us, folks) has decided to spend that amount to market Solyndra's product- in Brussels.

Another company- Celgard- got a a lot of publicity from Obama- not to mention stimulus funds- despite being under federal investigation. Why? Well, their parent company's employees and owner contributed, altogether, about $270,000 to the Obama '08 campaign.

The GAO issued a report that said that the Energy Department bypassed required steps for awarding funds to certain companies.

Given that the criteria for unsung was how much a company raised for Obama, it is not really surprising.

Readmthe story here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-focus-on-visiting-clean-tech-companies-raises-questions/2011/06/24/AGSFu9kH_story.html

Obama is worried that it is no longer "cool" to support him. He has no clue why he has lost his "cool" factor. Seems he "could not be prouder" of his record, as he stated at a fundraisers Friday night.

,aye someone should tell him that a record of cronyism and failure is not much to be proud of?

Anna Molly..

Major problem here is that while it is being reported on the national news, nothing is happening in WI from the Gov or courts....not surprising.

Second, even if he resigns, won't Walker just replace him with a replica of the original?

Over the weekend I read in our local paper that our TeaPublican governor, Paul LePage, has hired a $295.00 an hour New York lawyer to battle Maine's public public workers. Mind you, these workers have already compromised on benefits, they aren't looking to bankrupt the state, they just want to be treated with respect, and hiring an expensive out of state lawyer to bully them is not respectful. One DOT worker quoted in the paper observed that his department used to have 400 workers to cover a quarter of the state's highways, now he does the same work with 168. He says his department is efficient and streamlined and the governor needs to show them some respect.

Groucho:

Second, even if he resigns, won't Walker just replace him with a replica of the original?

Ideologically, perhaps, Groucho, but Prosser is beyond repugnant as a human being. This is not a joke or a mere aberration. It is the third time of which I am aware that Prosser has publicly disrespected women -- he called the Chief Justice a "b!tch" in public, he condescended repeatedly to his opponent Joanne Kloppenburg in the debates this past spring, and now this. He seems to have a problem with "uppity" women -- i.e., those who aspire to be his peers. From everything I've ever heard, Ann Walsh Bradley is a wonderful woman, but from everything I've seen, Prosser could push anyone's buttons, and frequently does.

You could put up with the misogyny, but the violence should not be tolerated.

JoAnna:

This may just be another smear attempt by the Democrats.

I always find it so interesting what you choose to defend and how you always go out of your way to leap to the defense of people like Prosser. As I remember it, you originally excused Anthony Weiner, as well. Nothing to see there, according to you.

If you don't mind, I won't follow your advice. From the article I posted above, if you had actually read it, you would see that the report has already been confirmed by several independent sources, including Prosser himself by inference. SOMETHING happened. The only question is how it happened. But as I said earlier, grabbing the justice by the neck does not seem justified, even by the most favorable account (to Prosser) that I have seen so far.

As for why women support Republicans, just remember that you are hardly the spokewoman for all women, and your view of the world is hardly the same view that I have or many women have. Women who are raised in an environment populated by authoritarian men may tend to gravitate toward authoritarian men. Women who are not, don't.

Prosser is obviously an authoritarian man, who does not tolerate women that don't agree with him. From your eagerness to leap to Prosser's defense, it seems that appeals to a woman like you.

Amy B. Portland, ME..

I just wrote a post to MB which said essentially the same thing about Governor Christie. It's a national GOP trend for conservative governors and it is being done purely out of spite as the unions had already acquiesced to the Governors demands.

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006

Backmann Saids A Lot Of Stupid Things. But When She said on Bob Scheiffer Face The Nation That Obama is Using "Scare Tatics" on The Debt Cealing I Say This:

Bush the great Decider and the Republicans squandered A large part of this countries wealth with:

1) His 2 war that cost a trillian dollars with the scantiest of hersey evidence((Just Added to the Debt)
2) His prescription drug benefits that we couldnt afford and (Just Added to the Debt)
3) His tax cuts for the rich that we couldnt afford and ((Just Added to the Debt)
4) HIs Letting 2/3 of largest corporations that make 10s to 100s of Billions pay no taxes thru outsourcing of our jobs. (Billions of Dollars Not Collect Because People are out of Work) ((Just Added to the Debt)

Not to Mention that when you put so many people out of work some of them are going to go on foodstamps welfare, medicaid, etc to support their families. Then you compain about it. Saying its all their fault because they Where Too "Lazy" to have a job.

Why wer'ent the Republicans screeming Bloody Murder when Bush was laying the seeds to Trillions of Dollars In budget deficits? Remember Dick "Deficits dont matter" Cheney

Ill tell you why? Because The Republicans only care about their Greedy selves & Hell with country and everyone else.

And how will we pay for this now? With YOUR social security \ medicare money, of course!(That You paid Taxes Into and Now the Goverment wants to tell us its an "Entitlement" And huge national debts for our children and grand children as for as the eyes can see. Wake up people.youve where Had!

The Great Decider Decided all right. He decided to scr@w us and this country !!!

Keep electing Republicans into the White house and voting for the Rich and expect the same lame results !! !

Ps (Just Wait For the Denyiers Appologist and the Propagandizers of stay on the message Republicans. They should be attacking me real soon)...

But You cant fool the people. Everyone Knows Conservatives buried us in this crisis and you know it. All the policy's of the previous administration(Bush) put us all at risk. Why ??? do all conservatives close their eye's to that little (not) pearl of fact?

Again I say:

Why wer'ent the Republicans( & The Tea Party & Rick Santelli) screeming Bloody Murder when Bush was laying the seeds to Trillions of Dollars In budget deficits? Remember Dick "Deficits dont matter" Cheney

Ill tell you why? Because The Republicans only care about their Greedy selves & Hell with country and everyone else. ! ! !

So No Bachmann. These Aren't "Scare Tatics". This is the Pathetic Reality of the Situation of the Wreckage Your Party Has Left The Country With.

If that isnt enough look at the Ryan Medicare Plan or should I say......

Welcome Seniors & Everyone Else To The New Republican Death Panels... Where we let private insurance companies decide whats best for their bottom line...either by denying any expensive treatement until the patient dies of their illnes or jacking the premiums so high to get the same effect. INSTEAD DECIDING WHATS GOOD FOR THE PATIENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES INTEREST.

Either way kiss your Golden Years GoodBye Seniors that you paid into and worked all your life for and replace them with Anxiety and Worries about the financial problems your going to have when your at the most vulnerable times in your life.

Who will benefit from this: The usual Republican suspects of course:
1)The rich with thier lower tax cuts
2)Big Business specifically Big insurance companies that can charge astronomical rates or refuse treatement.

Why Dont You Just Die ! ! ! (It's the best thing for our the bottom line)

AM: I always find it so interesting what you choose to defend and how you always go out of your way to leap to the defense of people like Prosser. As I remember it, you originally excused Anthony Weiner, as well. Nothing to see there, according to you

Speaking of leaping to conclusions . . .

AM: Ideologically, perhaps, Groucho, but Prosser is beyond repugnant as a human being

AM, you love the game of political "gotcha". You love to tear people down based on innuendo, rumors, and half truths. That's your game sister, and you're playing it to perfection today. As far as Weiner goes, a man who I have no political agreement with, I said that this game of "gotcha" has to stop. Weiner, if he would have admitted to his errors, should have survived politically. Instead, he hung himself with a series of lies. So be it.

With Prosser AM, you're missing something very important. Proof.

Groucho:

Morning. I was down the road a piece responding to your other posts and figured I would come back up here.

I was reported that Posser has a history of this type of behavior. If true, that is really disturbing.

Heated debates are one thing. I have a lot of respect for those that defend their views. I may not agree with them but I will and did fight for them to have the right to do that.

Posser sounds like a typical play ground bully that we all seen growing up. Some do it with words and try to intimidate that way, others take a more physical route.

In my opinion not only was this wrong it shows often times how weak that person really is. The really strong ones typically will compromise and try to work toward a common good, if not they shake hands and agree to disagree (on that point - not the whole life thing). I think most people have more in common that not, but as I have said there are the fringe players on both sides that are hurting this country. An attitude of my way or the highway just does not work in our society. Either we change the attitude or we change the Society. This is the choice I think we are now facing in a nut shell.

The political scene reminds me of a saying I used back in my High School Government classes:

Know how to fool a Democrat? Use facts and logic. Know how to fool a Republican? Use real facts and actual logic.

If the engaged public of this country, and all of our voting citizens would just look at the numbers -- from the economy, to jobs, health care -- our discussions would be vastly different. More jobs are being created than lost, more homes are being sold than foreclosed, domestic oil production and storage has gone up 20% during Obama but so is the price per gallon, corporations and lobbies are paying record numbers to politicians (Thanks to citizen united), the majority of the country supports gay marriage, tax rates are the lowest in 50 years yet industry is hiring less, middle class and lower class citizens are taxed at a higher tax bracket than the millionaires and billionaires, less US citizens are going to college in correlation with decreased in education and science spending, the biggest in creases in domestic spending came from Bush and Reagan and the War on Terror and Cold War respectively, raising the debt ceiling had never been considered a problematic issue until Obama, China hold less than 9% of US debt, the average sea temperature has rising correlating with our CO2 production, Arctic winter have had the least amount of sea ice in known history in accordance with rising sea temps and CO2 production, the life expectancy in the US has dropped correlating with the rise in Health care costs. I could continue and make this list even longer, its hard to believe that the majority of Republicans in Congress would bear a straight face and lie about each of these things and claim the opposite. Truly a sad time.

The entire GOP agenda is to put the USA squarely in the third world. All you suckers out there that think they care about your issues are going to get a rude awakening, but only after it's too late. The very rich don't care anymore how much they make; it's how little you make that matters. I hope Michele Bachmann wins in 2012 because that would probably start a civil war. That might cull some of the more ignorant types who don't know how to respect the freedoms of others and vote their single issue to the detriment of the entire country.

Again my friends, WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE!

US Navy - A bit of a math issue here too. There is NO middle class. A genuine, non-manipulated statistical analysis clearly shows there is a lower class and an upper class. That's it! If we can stick to the facts here, it will become crystal clear that the rich are waging a war against the lower class. Period.

Feisty - The Koch brothers and their very wealthy brethren are not financing "conservative" causes. They are interested ONLY in avoiding taxation and regulation. They are not conservative, they are greedy. Period.

Ron Indiana - Republicans - or more accurately the right-wing nuts who actually dominate the party - are not at all interested in "marginalizing" women. What they want is total domination and subjugation of women. Period.

I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of using accurate language when we have our discussions. The truth, my friends, that's what we have. It is the most powerful weapon in the arena of ideas. Please keep in mind the Chinese adage: The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name.

Grouch9 Marx:

Personally, dislike the voucher program also but Medicare will go broke in 2016 or before if some corrective legislation is not passed to fix loophole in the HCR laws. Obama and Biden both have said that the system needs fixing.

Haven't heard any specific plans, other than Ryan's, on just how we do that.

Where did you get THAT misinformation? Sean Hannity? Not even the Republicans are claiming Medicare will go broke in 5 years. They claim that it will be in 2020, and that's not right, either, according

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/ryans-muddy-medicare-claims/

Ryan’s Muddy Medicare Claims

April 19, 2011

Rep. Paul Ryan’s claim that Medicare will be "bankrupt in nine years" goes too far. The trust fund that primarily supports one part of Medicare is projected to be exhausted come 2020, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees said it might not actually happen until 2029. That still doesn’t mean the system will be "bankrupt," though.

Navy..

Today we are the same page on this.

'Heated debates are one thing. I have a lot of respect for those that defend their views. I may not agree with them but I will and did fight for them to have the right to do that."

"but as I have said there are the fringe players on both sides that are hurting this country"

Lots of truth to all that after what we talked about this weekend.

It's the fringe that concerns me....they will always hurt the larger group with no respect for the consequences.

Perfectly said and thanks.

drew-3261464

You said it! Thank you for laying it all out there. I hope you write letters to the editor of your local paper because more people need to read this, and you articulate the facts so clearly.

no joe, no bo, nj

Want to know how Obama managed to add almost $4 trillion to the debt?

No Jo the question is why did he have to do it, also some of the debt he added was apart of the funding for 2 wars and Medicaid part D a artical said it would add 6 trillion to the debt over the first 10 years since inacted. fuel prices that have stalled the economy, thank god he released 60 million on the open market to stop speculators, something bush neven wanted to do becasue it would have cut into chennys profit margian, lets be fair No Jo, something you have forgotten in your later years.

Just 2 weeks ago the republican controlled congress added 42 billion for a more HLC funding also 800 billion was added because of the extending of tax cuts, more Unemployment benifets because Bush left office and no one was working, More war funding, more war funding, I'm suprised at you, i know you marched against the war in vietman I'm sure your husband burned his draft card or got his defernment, because only the low income men who were drafted had to go.

this is what kills many about you no jo, you talk about how the civil rights movement changed your life and school integration even the playing field, but you support a dog like Clarence Thomas who has forgotten where he came from and that if not for Thurgood Marshall he would have NEVER gotten in yale. ,you talk about debt Obama created but you don't speak out against the wars we can't afford. you play up the fact people have not worked since late 2008 but don't think the deserve extra unemployment benefits. you cry about taxs, but obama has lowered taxs since he took office.

No jo, MLK would be just as proud of you as I'm sure he is Clarence Thomas. Two people who have lost their way.

Drew - and the democrats were where??? The American public was where??

Other than living in the past, got any ideas of your own to get America back on track and competitive?

One thing Bachmann has really learned how to do is avoid answering any questions. Prosser in Wis. has shown himself to have an anger management problem at the least, and a female abuser at the worst. As to the "debt crisis", yesterday on Fahreed Zacharis, Pimco, the world's largest bond trader's CEO, El-Erian, said several things of interest. 1. The US is fundamentally different than Greece, and to compare us to Greece is a flase premise. 2. The US does not have the political will to address the really serious problems we face. 3. Pimco, will no longer be buying US bonds, and will address their clients to do the same, and buy outside of the US. 4. The Fed will be quitting bond buying at the end of QE2, and in 2 to 3 years we will be in serious trouble. 5. He said too much cutting of the budget at this time is a very bad idea and will further weaken the slow ecomony. 6. He also said more revenue is needed, and we all know what that means, get rid of the Bush tax cuts and seriously address the tax loopholes, and give aways to corps. that truly don't need them. I will listen to an expert before I listen to the Repub. yahoos in DC. This is not good news.

JoAnna:

With Prosser AM, you're missing something very important. Proof.

I see. The eye-witness account of the woman whom he grabbed by the neck, as reported by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (a newspaper with NO left-wing bias), doesn't count as "proof."

Thank you for making my point for me, JoAnna. You won't let even the statement of the victim get in the way of your pre-drawn conclusions.

But, of course, in this case there were also other witnesses.

As far as I know, all of that counts as "proof." Except to those whose minds are already made up.

Sorry, I'm not sure on spelling of Fahreed's last name. Thought I'd clear that up before I get called a stupid liberal who cannot spell.

Anna, two people were in a room. One says the other caged, with fists up, and hands were raised in defense.

The other says that out of the clear blue sky, in the middle of a perfectly calm discussion, a chokehold was place upon her person.

You are a lawyer- you tell us how to tell who is telling the truth.

As you well know, rumorsnof a verbal incident which also involved only two people are not ad,is sable- and one person's "disrespect" of an opponent during a campaign is another person's version of "equal treatment".

Besides which, neither would be admissible as evidence in a court of law, I understand.

One thing Bachmann has really learned how to do is avoid answering any questions

The LAST thing the TP/GOP want is her actually answering questions, it will just make her and her party look even more loony.

Groucho, I'm sure you're right about the ideology of anyone who might be chosen to replace Prosser (should it come to that) but I have to admit that's his right as long as he's governor. Regardless of ideology, however, aggressiveness toward others is not to be tolerated.

Speaking of governors, I had the experience this weekend to witness first hand just how popular our own GOPTP governor has become after only a few months in office. When introduced before the Indycar race in Newton, IA Terry Branstad was loudly booed from throughout the grandstands, with applause being sparse and barely audible. Heckling continued throughout his short speech, and a young woman not far from my seat loudly asked "who elected this guy, anyway?" Big agribusiness favorite Bill Northey, Secretary of Agriculture was booed, but not as loudly--in the biggest corn and hog producing state! Again, almost no applause. When Rep. Steve King was introduced someone shouted "go away!" to which some reacted with laughter.

Buyers remorse is running rampant in Iowa.

Drew, excellent posts this morning. Great work and I look forward to more.

AM: I see. The eye-witness account of the woman whom he grabbed by the neck, as reported by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (a newspaper with NO left-wing bias), doesn't count as "proof."

Why hasn't Prosser been arrested Annie? If what you say was "proof", Prosser would be in jail.

Like I said, something isn't adding up.

AM: Thank you for making my point for me, JoAnna. You won't let even the statement of the victim get in the way of your pre-drawn conclusions

I haven't made a conclusion Annie, you have. I've asked questions. You have Prosser doing 10-15 in the state pen.

Loony, Jeff?

As loony as telling people that the future of manufacturing lies in military grade, indestructible diapers?

As loony as, in the face of an exploding debt, stagnant economy, and rising unemployment and inflation, telling people that "you could not be prouder" of your record?

How about as loony as, in the face of a debt crisis, spending money on a "secret shopper" program? You did not hear about it? Well, read here

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57824.html

Then people wonder how he managed to add four trillion dollars to the debt in such a short period of time.

That is what I call loony. Seems like most of the electorate agrees.

no joe:

Anna, two people were in a room. One says the other caged, with fists up, and hands were raised in defense.

The other says that out of the clear blue sky, in the middle of a perfectly calm discussion, a chokehold was place upon her person.

You are a lawyer- you tell us how to tell who is telling the truth.

Now you're doing it, no joe. Only in this case, not so much denying the facts as twisting them to suit your purposes. The account you're giving is no one's account. You're just making it up. Too bad for you that there were other people in that room -- other Supreme Court justices, as a matter of fact -- and they've already confirmed what happened.

Juries make decisions like this all the time. It's called judging credibility and finding facts. That's a jury's job. In harassment cases for example, he said/she said is often the only evidence of what happened. Only that's not even this case. It's merely the case you would prefer it to be. Here there were witnesses.

Thus, it is not correct to say, as JoAnna does, that there is no "proof." Your attempt to twist that proof into something else so that you can ignore the significance of it is completely misguided.

It's a good thing that neither of you are lawyers because lawyers are required to dwell within the world of facts.

AM: Because the facts that actually exist aren't convenient, you and JoAnna do what so many others out here do -- you simply deny the facts, or even worse, in your case, you change them

You certainly are a piece of work Annie. Here is one fact that you seem to ignore, Prosser has not been arrested. I know it's convenient for you to ignore and deny that fact because it goes against your bias towards him, but facts are facts Annie, and they don't appear to be on your side.

AM: It's a good thing that neither of you are lawyers because lawyers are required to dwell within the world of facts.

So what's your excuse? And you don't know what I am.

Houston!

You wrote:

I said: Medicare will go broke in 2016 or before if some corrective legislation is not passed to fix loophole in the HCR laws. Obama and Biden both have said that the system needs fixing.

Haven't heard any specific plans, other than Ryan's, on just how we do that.

You said: Where did you get THAT misinformation? Sean Hannity? Not even the Republicans are claiming Medicare will go broke in 5 years. They claim that it will be in 2020, and that's not right

From the Washington Post:

"Medicare's financial health, the report shows, deteriorated less sharply in the past year than Social Security's, but it remains the more urgent problem. The trust fund that pays for hospital care under Medicare is now predicted to run out of money in 2017, two years earlier than forecast a year ago. That fund does not involve the parts of Medicare that cover doctor's visits or coverage for prescription drugs."

Sorry, I said, 2016. It's 2017. If the loopholes on Medicaid and Waivers in the HCR law are not fixed, sooner, as I wrote.

"Gallup is out with new Obama Approval Numbers today showing that his bounce after the killing of Osama Bin Laden is largely gone. Perhaps the key number is that among Independents, Obama's approval is down to 42% – close to where it was on May 1 before Bin Laden was killed (40%)."

Yea...where I live if you grab someone around the neck in any manner, your going to Jail! The fact that he didnt makes me think there is something not fresh in the hamper!

JoAnna:

I haven't made a conclusion Annie, you have. I've asked questions.

Seriously? The only question you've actually asked so far is the one that tends to support your pre-drawn conclusion that this is nothing more than a Democratic conspiracy.

Another way of putting your question, with less bias from your point of view, and a little more from mine, might be, "Why did Prosser get a pass when no one else would have?" And that is a mystery to me. It seems indisputable that something happened. Any ordinary citizen who did what Prosser is alleged to have done would have been arrested, just on the word of the victim. In this state, that's the norm even if the victim doesn't want to press charges. At the very least, the allegations so far appear to support a charge of disorderly conduct, and possibly reckless endangerment, assault, or even battery. Trials are for sorting out the facts.

JoAnna:

And you don't know what I am.

Oh, JoAnna. What you are is very apparent to me. And I don't mean your "profession."

jollyoldsoul1:

The fact that he didnt makes me think there is something not fresh in the hamper!

Boy, I hear you. Just like the fact that George W. Bush has never been tried for war crimes, and many folks on Wall Street appear to have gotten a pass for their transgressions gives me the same feeling.

It's pretty much indisputable at this point, based on more than one eye-witness account, that Prosser did put his hands around Bradley's neck in a choke hold. The only thing left is interpretation. In your case, I already know how that comes out. I guess i'll wait for the Judicial Commission.

AM: Another way of putting your question, with less bias from your point of view, and a little more from mine, might be, "Why did Prosser get a pass when no one else would have?" And that is a mystery to me. It seems indisputable that something happened. Any ordinary citizen who did what Prosser is alleged to have done, would have been arrested, just on the word of the victim. In this state, that's the norm even if the victim doesn't want to press charges. At the very least, the allegations so far appear to support a charge of disorderly conduct, and possibly reckless endangerment, assault, or even battery. Trials are for sorting out the facts.

Nice to see you're backing down at least a little Annie. But lets at least wait for an arrest and charges be made before we get to your "hanging" trial, okay? And it will be interesting to see the prosecutor argue that "It seems indisputable that something happened" so based on that, the jury should convict.

AM: Oh, JoAnna. What you are is very apparent to me. And I don't mean your "profession."

Ahh. Do I upset you AM? Too bad.

Here is where I got my facts, Anna

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57835.html

He said/she said.

Somebody is lying. It is nothing more than your personal bias that leads you to your conclusion of who that might be.

Groucho Marx:

From the Washington Post:

"Medicare's financial health, the report shows, deteriorated less sharply in the past year than Social Security's, but it remains the more urgent problem. The trust fund that pays for hospital care under Medicare is now predicted to run out of money in 2017, two years earlier than forecast a year ago. That fund does not involve the parts of Medicare that cover doctor's visits or coverage for prescription drugs."

Sorry, I said, 2016. It's 2017. If the loopholes on Medicaid and Waivers in the HCR law are not fixed, sooner, as I wrote.

Hospital care is only one part of Medicare. You're making an incorrect claim about the entire system going broke, just like Paul Ryan did, except he said 2020 while you said 2016 (now 2017).

As for nobody besides Paul Ryan addressing Medicare's problems, that's wrong, too. Obama's approach is cuts to Medicare as part of the Affordable Care Act that has been enacted into law. You know, the part where government bureaucrats kill Gramma and turn her into Soylent Green, or whatever Chuck Grassley was claiming back.

The Affordable Care Act does not solve the entire problem with Medicare, but it's better than Ryan's approach, which is basically to destroy Medicare and replace it with a voucher system that he calls "Medicare."

JoAnna:

Ahh. Do I upset you AM? Too bad.

Where did I say that? But the answer is, not any more, no matter how vicious you get.

My reaction to you now is something else altogether. Keep up the good work.

AM: Where did I say that? But the answer is, not any more, no matter how vicious you get

Annie, you are a hoot. Maybe you can get in on the ground floor of the new Libbies R Us group. Maybe be the executive director. You sure got the personality for it.

Maybe you can help the tree house gang to understand those privacy features this time around.

no joe:

Here is where I got my facts, Anna

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57835.html

He said/she said.

Just three questions for you. First, where does it say in that article that they were alone in the room. They weren't. Every other report I have seen indicates that more than one other justice was there. You're inferring that no one else was there merely because the article doesn't mention it. Someone besides Bradley leaked it and the Journal-Sentinel confirmed it from three "independent" sources.

And second, why did it take so long for this alternative version to surface? The incident happened weeks ago. Did they need that much time to get Prosser's story straight?

And third, what do you suppose Prosser said to make Bradley angry? We already know what he called the Chief Justice?

A nicer man you could easily find. Just your type, apparently, and JoAnna's, too. Have at him, girls.

JoAnna:

Maybe you can get in on the ground floor of the new Libbies R Us group. Maybe be the executive director. You sure got the personality for it.

Gee, thanks. Coming from you, that means a lot.

The only actual fact in the Politico story is that Conservatives are in attack mode against Justice Walsh for daring to report an attack against her. Everything else is allegation, description of what it is that's being investigated by the authorities.

This is a very instructive view of Conservative "blame the victim" tendencies. As noted elsewhere this pattern on behalf of the GOPTP and the entire Conservative echo chamber makes it difficult to understand how or why women would support the Republican Party.

This is a very instructive view of Conservative "blame the victim" tendencies.

Like Sarah Palin forcing sexual assault victims to pay for their own rape kits?

Damn those compassionate christian conservatives...

no joe, no bo, nj

Here is where I got my facts, Anna

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57835.html

He said/she said.

Actually, I got the impression that this was a "he-said-she-said" case, too, from a brief article in the Chronicle this morning. But the article from the Madison paper that Anna Molly linked to says there were other witnesses -- other Supreme Court justices who probably would be considered highly reliable witnesses. The presence of those witnesses is obviously of extremely great importance, and Politico and the article from a national news wire in the Chronicle should have made that clearer. Whether Prosser was defending himself from physical assault as he claimed will probably get resolved by what the other witnesses testify.

AM: And second, why did it take so long for this alternative version to surface? The incident happened weeks ago. Did they need that much time to get Prosser's story straight?

See, what you're doing Annie is using the msnbc approach to "fact-finding". That is, come up with a conclusion, and try to manipulate the "facts" to support that conclusion. It is a hoot to watch as you lefties thrash around attempting to justify your position, but as soon as you're challenged and asked for even a morsel of evidence, your liberal world is shattered, just like your Bush being charged with war-crimes fantasy. The anthropology of watching you libs and your simplistic behavior is just fascinating to observe.

Houston: The presence of those witnesses is obviously of extremely great importance, and Politico and the article from a national news wire in the Chronicle should have made that clearer. Whether Prosser was defending himself from physical assault as he claimed will probably get resolved by what the other witnesses testify.

Exactly. Certainly if there is a man attacking people like it is alleged Prosser has done, Prosser should be arrested and immediately charged. Menaces like that have no place in society. But that hasn't happened. Even in a domestic conflict, in a he-said-she-said situation, the one that performs the assault is taken away in handcuffs. That hasn't happened. It is not even clear that any investigation is being conducted.

The anthropology of watching you libs and your simplistic behavior is just fascinating to observe.

Well, at least we're fascinating.

And I'm not manipulating facts. Just like you, I'm merely asking questions. There is, of course, no operative difference between your question and mine, except that I asked both questions, and you only asked one.

Your singular lack of curiosity betrays you, JoAnna.

That hasn't happened. It is not even clear that any investigation is even being conducted.

Apparently, from the article I posted, the Judicial Commission is looking at the issue, although they will not officially "confirm" it. We do have rules for that sort of thing, unlike the US Supreme Court.

Why don't you just let all the facts shake out before you absolve Justice Prosser on the sole basis that he wasn't arrested. Or would that be unthinkable, just like counting all the votes in Florida?

AM: Your singular lack of curiosity betrays you, JoAnna.

You've got this whole thing already going to trial, and you talk about others "lack of curiosity". Perhaps just maybe we could have a charge or two before we get to that point?

AM: Apparently, from the article I posted, the Judicial Commission is looking at the issue

"Apparently" they are investigating . . . . Gee, you'd think we'd be a little more sure of at least an investigation going on before we jump to the trial you most desperately are hoping for.

AM: Why don't you just let all the facts shake out before you absolve Justice Prosser on the sole basis that he wasn't arrested

You already have Prosser going to trial. It's that "innocent until proven guilty" thing you seem to struggle with.

AM: just like counting all the votes in Florida

Bush war crimes. Florida vote counts. Pure fantasy and classic liberal dodges when their argument is lost.

AM: Well, at least we're fascinating

More in a pathetic way rather than a good way.

This thread is a perfect example of the way folks here manage to fold their long-standing grudges into whatever the day's topic may be.

In the GOP/TP fantasy land it is almost always the victims fault unless proven otherwise. That is just their mind set. The people that lost their jobs was their own fault. Those that cannot afford Health Insurance - their fault. Those that can not afford a good education - again their fault not to mention how they wanted to define "rape" basically saying all rape is the fault of the victim unless they are beaten to hell and can prove it.

Nothing new same old same old.

Dave Walker: Thanks for the feedback about the two (2) classes. Did not quite look at it that way, did not think we were there yet, but I will now. Thanks again.

JoAnna:

Apparently" they are investigating . . . . Gee, you'd think we'd be a little more sure of at least an investigation going on before we jump to the trial you most desperately are hoping for.

I'm not hoping for a trial. You seem to be the rabid one on that topic. I'm hoping that, as the investigation continues, he resigns in the disgrace he deserves for his shoddy treatment of colleagues, not to mention his shameful actions in the recent litigation over the bargaining law. Leaving Justice Bradley aside, he's not fit to lick Chief Justice Abrahamson's shoes, and I'm sure she can out-fish him, to boot. That's exactly the part that guys like Prosser don't like.

Make no mistake, JoAnna. Prosser is not on the Court because of his merit as a jurist.

You already have Prosser going to trial. It's that "innocent until proven guilty" thing you seem to struggle with.

No, all I said was that the Judicial Commission was investigating. That's not quite the same as a trial. My only reference to "trials" was in response to no joe's question about how you resolve a "he said/she said" situation. That's what trials are for. Besides, a trial is better than your "innocent because I said so" position. That's exactly how authoritarians behave.

More in a pathetic way rather than a good way.

Any way is better than no way, I guess. But according to the set of instructions I received from my analyst, JoAnna, I've reached my daily tolerance for your insults. See you later, gator.

I thought this was an article on Bachmann not ramblings against some silly nonsense about Thomas and Prosser. You guys are starting to sound like Mel Gibson in the movie "Conspiracy". Quit trying to use the politics of personal destruction to get what you want. This is a concerted effort to remove a supreme court justice so Obama can name a different politically leaning judge. Stick to the facts and policies and win our hearts and minds not through trying to besmirch someone.

In addition, why is it ok for you guys to attempt to destroy Bachmann (I dont support her for the nominee by the way over Romney or Huntsman or Pawlenty) personally rather than just disagree with her policy positions and take a passionate position to convince others she is wrong. If you are right then people wont vote for her. Why do you think its ok to call her stupid when she is an accomplished tax lawyer and she certainly isnt less intelligent than Obama. He wont even release his SAT scores or grades so how do we know he wasnt an affirmative action student? He misspeaks, says stupid things like ATMs cost jobs etc but you guys dont consider him stupid but Bachmann is? We can all find reasons to call someone stupid unfairly so why dont we passionately support our positions and stay away from the Fiesty, Navy method of personal destruction. I would rather have you tell my why something Bachmann supports isnt whats best for the republican party or your personal views and lets debate it ok?

Ron, that diatribe on republicans against women is borderline repulsive. I am a fiscally conservative white male whose wife is a professional woman and I have had female bosses and never had an issue with it. You made generalizations that have nothing to do with women and republicans or your distorted views. Women make 20% less than men but controlling for all the factors including the types of jobs woman want its less than pennies. Thats an old worn out statistic that has no bearing on real life examples. Take law, accounting, finance etc and woman with the same background, experience etc make the same pay. Woman definitely make up a larger percentage of lower paying jobs for a variety of reasons different than discrimination. The law that the republicans wouldnt support would have allowed plantiff's lawyers to make discrimination claims based on statistics and not any actual evidence of discrimination. Who do you think wanted that? Trial lawyers right? Who do they give gobs of money to? Democrats right?

Abortion is not a male female issue as there are just as many woman who are prolife. I personally happen to be pro choice but I respect the position of the people who passionately believe in the pro life stance as long as they arent violent and tread on the rights of others. Whats wrong with that? Whats different about that from passionate anti gun views? That certainly isnt a republican gender issue.

Finally, you definitely stepped over the repulsive line when you said republicans want to cut certain social services and benefits because they are anti woman. Put aside the planned parenthood abortion debate as cash is fungible so going in one pocket and coming out another pocket of the same person is still being paid by the person with the pants. However, I see the republicans saying wait we have already increased the budgets of all these services by in some cases 80% over the last 3 years and in every case much larger than the rate of inflation or the rate of growth in revenue. We need to allocate finite resources and we need to reduce the rate of growth or we need to cut back in entitlements because we only have so much money to spend or borrow and spend (although Obama and Pelosi and Reid might disagree). But lo and behold the democrats say no we cant cut entitlements so where does that force the cuts to come from? So stop the embellishment repulsive views and instead tell me where spending cuts should come from? Remember we are only talking slowing the rate of growth over the last 10 years not cutting below any reasonable growth rate for social services

Dangerfield

This thread is a perfect example of the way folks here manage to fold their long-standing grudges into whatever the day's topic may be.

Dangerfield's posts are perfect examples of trolling, wherein somebody insults everyone else in order to get attention.

JaAnnaSmith1:

Exactly. Certainly if there is a man attacking people like it is alleged Prosser has done, Prosser should be arrested and immediately charged. Menaces like that have no place in society. But that hasn't happened. Even in a domestic conflict, in a he-said-she-said situation, the one that performs the assault is taken away in handcuffs. That hasn't happened. It is not even clear that any investigation is being conducted.

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt very much that an allegation of an assault always results in an immediate arrest. Especially when the alleged attacker is a state Supreme Court justice.

Drew:

You are on a role. Tell us how you really feel. Good points everyone and thanks. Hope to see you here more often.

On Medicare there are many reports out there and you have to be very careful. There are many parts to Medicare and some only attack one or two instead of looking at the whole picture. Medicare does has a problem, no doubt there but it is not immediate. The whole program will not go away but if we do not do something soon, the costs will continue to rise, and we may see benefits reduced or beneficiaries will have to put in more of their paychecks or BOTH.

President Obama in the HCR Law that has been passed does reduce Medicare Spending by going after Medicare Advantage that is basically a redundant program that offers very little in benefit except almost pure profit to the insurance companies. It is this Medicare reduction the GOP/TP likes to claim as a cut to Medicare Benefits. It is not. Medicare Advantage does almost nothing for the beneficiaries. President Obama wanted to cut out programs and expenses that did not give enough bang for the buck and this was one of them.

Is it enough, in the long run no, we need to do more for sure. Same thing with Medicaid that has a lot of fraud going on.

Houston you really do have seem to have a problem (with me )...If that characterization is correct then you must desperately crave my attention...do you? lol

Are you in love with me?

Did I hurt you somehow?

Stalking my posts, announcing to "the board" etc...you're embarrassing me with all the attention...

Just in case anyone happens to read this thread and is in the habit of believing anything that JoAnna and no joe say, here's an article from the local newspaper indicating that the Prosser matter has now been turned over to the Dane County Sheriff's department to investigate. The chief of the Capitol Police, after interviewing all of the justices, decided that a criminal investigation was warranted.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_49189bde-a0f1-11e0-b2c2-001cc4c03286.html

And even Scott Fitzgerald, Republican head of the State Senate, acknowledges that "something happened."

http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/on-politics/article_f022ca04-a03c-11e0-8d84-001cc4c002e0.html

Pathetic, JoAnna? Not so much.

Kirk

Great post!! Well done

DF - by now you should know that Houston is obviously one of those from the "secret treehouse" lol.

I just want to commend the headline writers on the first sighting of the Bachman Turner Overdrive pun. Well done!

Prosser? Prosser? Hmmm... where have I heard that name before?

WAIT - isn't he the guy who won re-election when 7,000 ballots magicially materialized from someone who's was been investigated in the past for questionable behavior?

Feisty:

These guys are starting to get scary. What gets me is the absolute arrogance in how they behave. They really think they are the chosen ones and rules, laws, morals, ethics, honor, loyalty justice, responsibility and accountability are words that should be deleted from the dictionary as they do with History they do not like. Everybody else must following them but not the GOP/TP.

They really do believe "Do as I say not as I do - More for ME and less for YOU". I am surprised they have not used that as a campaign slogan - They sure appear to be just arrogant enough to do it.

They just keep pissing in our faces daring us to do something about it - the time is coming

Obama in 2012

Looks like my prediction of a Romney/Bachmann ticket may come to be according to recent polls. Oh Boy, I can hardly wait. McCain/Palin redo.

I'm hoping that the FBI is investigating.

Morning Job1:

Me too. Time will tell.

IR:

Kudos. The American people want leaders that will work together for the greater good of this country NOT KINGS.

The GOP/TP is overreaching on the false premise that this is what the American people voted them in for. NOT - the American people bought the BS about Jobs and the Economy that the GOP/TP kept running on in 2010. Well their are no jobs and they have not stimulated the economy.

Instead they have been on this crusade to usurp power and wealth for themselves. They do not care one iota about the American people. They only care about Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionaires and Billionaires - all who bought their elections for them.

The GOPTP has been in favor of a lot of things, including creating jobs and universal health care, until they are against it because our President and democrats support it. The GOPTP's allegiance is to Grover Nordquist. While they swear on a Bible to uphold the Constitution, to do what is right for the country--they have signed the Nordquist Pledge and it takes priority.

Great news!! I have no idea how this has managed to avoid becoming a national story. The virtual suspension of local representative democracy with the stroke of a pen is the most amazing power grab I've ever seen. It's an authoritarian agenda that should snap everyone's eyes wide open as to what can happen anywhere, if we don't take our right to vote and petition the government seriously.

They will lose, I live in Detroit! Ive lived here for 8 years now mostly under the least effective governor I have even observed at anytime in my life. As we call her "Jenny from the block" Jennifer Granholm. I dont believe she ever balanced a budget and when she left this state was in ruin. And now..... We have the former Democratic Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick being released on probation, only to face federal racketeering charges later this year. He has stated he is coming back to Detroit to make some noise! In the few short months Mr Snyder has accomplished things that his predecessor has not been able too. The only people angry are the Public unions and public employees, Most of you do not know how much of a mess the administrations have made of the School systems. We had teachers and administrators borrowing money from school accounts and taking vacations with school money. This is needed to get these schools and cities back on track we have cities and school systems on the verge of bankruptcy!

What I do not understand is why people are not more outraged by this sort of situation. Why is it OK for a mayor - of any city - to do what was done in Michigan without a HUGE public outcry?

The mere fact that the mayor was successful with his power grab and the people were clueless about what their options were - until now - speaks volumes to me.

What it shows is that our civil rights are SLOWLY being stripped away, and those that are taking them away are daring us to challenge them. We are FINALLY seeing a challenge in Michigan against the mayor's actions; it is about bloody time.

What about our OTHER rights? What has the Patriot Act done to strip YOUR rights, using 'terrorism' against a bunch of guys living in caves in Afganistan and Pakistan known as 'Al Quaeda' to scare you into willingly giving up those rights?

What about the rights of collective bargaining for unions that are now outlawed or greatly curtailed in Ohio and Wisconsin?

With these guys, it seems that they are all about 'taking away' something from someone. I sincerely hope that the next time people go to the polls and vote for their Congresscritters - local and National - they understand what they are voting for.

John B:

It is not a national story because it is more important for us to know that Michelle Bachman is running for President based on a platform of pretty eyes and foster kids. :o)

Pietro:

Outstanding and I could not agree more. This has always been about power and greed. In WI and other states the unions accepted the spending cuts so the money was off the table. The Governors one but theystill went after collective bargaining - Why?? They wanted to strip that power away from the unions.

Why are they going after the Reproductive Rights of Women calling for Spending Cuts under the false flag of abortions being performed with Federal money, which they are not, why? Because they want the power to control what women can do with their own bodies. They want to break their spirit by making them sub-servants to males.

Why are they changing the voter registrations when there is not provable voter fraud? Because they want to control who votes, they know the new rules have nothing to do with voter fraud but everything to do with making it harder for a select class of people to register to vote. Mostly people that have a history of voting democratic. They even made new voter registration drives a nightmare with so many rules and fines that no body in their right mind will do them. Again power and greed.

And the list goes on and on. Everything the right wing fanatics want has to do with more power and wealth for them at the expense of the other 98% of the American people.

Excellent Pat

Thanks for setting the record straight.

Good Morning Pat!

I was watching it live Friday night on the Rachel Show and to say I was more than a little disappointed in her comments is an understatement!

Congratulations to the GLBT community in NY! (Especially Pat, Huntington - it's been a long journey for you)!

Good morning, Pat. How about my Pirates taking 2 against your Sox? Thanks to Boston fans for helping set 2 consecutive attendance records at PNC Park.

I think gay marriage is an issue where most politicians are waiting for the general public to catch up to them. They compromise by pushing civil unions to give rights to gays. I don't think this is right but it also says to me it is only a matter of time. Not fair but I think that is how it is.

Once again the Liberals can't see the trees for the forest. With the economy continuing to weaken, with unemployment rising, with the Democrats still not having a plan for the debt/deficit and entitlement reform, the biggest issue to the Liberals is gay marriage. Clueless are the Liberals.

Ron, the media are lying, day in, day out. MSNBC is off my tv for a while. Seems to be happening with a lot of us lately.

Corporate media. No damn good. But what's worse are the former Republicans who now miraculously call themselves progressives.

Cenk - I read he voted for Bob Dole for Gsakes. Arianna Huffington wanted NEWT GINGRICH to run for President in the mid 1990's. Ed Schultz ADMITTED he was a Republican in a former life because he wanted it all for himself. And now they're laying everything at the feet of President Obama. Someone said over the weekend that Rachel was never a supporter of President Obama. Fine. Just don't LIE about his positions.

They are all full of ****. They are the ones who voted Bush in. They make me ill.

You know Pat this is not a big issue to me. I really don't understand the arguments against gay marriage. However, I did read up on the specifics of the NY law and I was appalled at some of the hoops that a gay couple have to go through (again I thought DOMA was just a way of allowing the states to choose). However, what I found was that if a gay couple in NY state wish to file states taxes as a couple, which is financially beneficial, they have to create THREE federal returns. One for each partner, and then a dummy return that is filed with the state taxes.

Now you are giving the President a pass on this issue and that is your right. But would you feel the same way if Kennedy or Johnson personally were not for civil rights in the 60's. How would you feel if we had a Catholic President who personally was pro-life. Would you cut them the same slack?

Pat:

We are on the same page again. Thanks for the additional info and setting the record straight.

Steeler_Fan: Do you know that of all the baseball stadiums, yours is my favorite? It is just gorgeous.

I HATE inter league play and always have. The only good thing about it is it gives us fans in the AL a chance to see some NL parks if they are inclined to do that. But other than that, I've never been a fan of inter league games.

You nailed it on gay marriage. It's got a long way to go I agree, but President Obama isn't the culprit here. He undid some bad policies set up under President Clinton.

Thanks everybody. Speak up. Loud. This nonsense needs to stop.

MSNBC is off my tv for a while

Thank goodness Keith Olbermann is back & remember Lawrence O'Donnell is a self confirmed 'socialist'! lol

PS: I've been following the Whitey Bolger (sp?) story over the weekend... fascinating!

PNC Park is a gem with its view of our city's skyline and amenities. And Sat. was Fireworks Night---in the game and afterward, too! I do like the chance to see "stars" from the AL in inter-league play.

I wish the progressives who criticize everything the President does would take a minute to remember how things were under George Bush. I also wish they would roll up their sleeves and do more to get a Congress that would support their agenda as well---would certainly make things easier for the President. What Republican do they think would do a better job?!

Alan:

The problem is that criticizing politicians for their personal beliefs is quite a slippery slope. Do we really want our politicians to tailor their beliefs to what is politically expedient? I hold a lot of personal beliefs that I don't feel I have the right to impose on other folks. So to me, it is about expecting someone to endorse my personal choices, instead it is about expecting them to endorse the right of everyone to "pursue happiness" within reason.

Oops . . . I meant it is NOT about expecting someone to endorse my personal choices.

Once again the Liberals can't see the trees for the forest. With the economy continuing to weaken, with unemployment rising, with the Democrats still not having a plan for the debt/deficit and entitlement reform, the biggest issue to the Liberals is gay marriage.

Refresh my memory...who walked out of the meeting last week?

Feisty, I haven't been able to follow Keith too closely since his return, because of family staying with me from out of state for the last few weeks. Keith is one who has ticked me off as well from time to time. I don't like his PL friends. But I think he's really the original progressive host and seems the most honest. Plus he's an authentic New Yorker and to me he represents New York quite well. So I have a tendency to listen to him quite closely. His set looks really nice with that beautiful skyline of NYC.

Lawrence I love as well. I don't think he's ticked me off yet which is pleasantly surprising. I thought he would. But he's very fair. Very. He's not petty. He's quite realistic.

Bulger I have zero interest in, other than wondering how he lived in So. California all these years. How is that possible? His trials will be huge coverage here, on the scale of OJ Simpson.

Mainly because people want to know the role the FBI played for real. I just hope the victims' families get some closure out of this. Bulger was a cold hearted murderer. That's all he was.

btw, the place where he buried some victims is a place I pass every single day on my way to Boston.

Refresh my memory...who walked out of the meeting last week?

The meetings can't continue without Cantor? Did a quorum not exist without him?

So, just what is the Democrats plan, for just about anything? The Republicans have laid out their economic plan in great detail. The Democrats? They have nothing. Talk is cheap as we see with these meetings. Biden can't speak for Obama, it's time Obama weighs in and proposes a plan. And I'm sure he'll have one, just as soon someone can pry him away from the campaign trail and his fund raisers.

I believe the reason republicans walked out of the meeting last week was that the Democrats refuse to consider any plan for the deficit. THe "tax rich" scheme gives us peanuts any anyway is moot since there already is an end date.

I watched Rachel Maddow's live coverage of the NY vote. She did a great job.

I find it interesting that President Obama is criticized on this issue at all. He supports civil unions, he has repealed DADT, his Dept of Justice will not prosecute (in federal courts) DOMA. President Clinton signed DADT and DOMA into law. It makes no sense. It seems to me that liberals read too much into Obama's support of civil unions rather than their preferred term "gay marriage". Civil unions are the equivalent of marriage without the religious ceremony. Iowa's Supreme Court ruling that struck down this state's "marriage is between a man and woman" law saying it was unconstitutional but in that ruling (just as NY state legislature has done), Iowa's Supreme Court said that the church has the right to determine if it will "marry" gays and lesbians. That makes sense. Religion is personal, there are many religious people who struggle with the idea of gay marriage and it is not because they intentionally wish to discriminate--it is just what they believe. I am a liberal who supports gay marriage but my personal belief should not dictate to churches/religions what they must accept or not any more than those religions/churches should be allowed to dictate to women what their reproductive choices must be.

DaNoid:

How true. When they have nothing to say they try and pick something stupid to comment on. I guess we know where that person stands on Gay Rights. The climate in this country is changing and more States are going to pass "Same Sex" marriages. I have no problem with that at all. I have no problem with them serving this country either. I could care less about what they do in their personal lives. It is none of our business any more than trying to control women's reproductive rights. It is just none of our business period and it sure as he!! is not the governments business either.

The GOP/TP walked out of the meeting for one reason (some say it was planned this way) and one reason only - to stall. They are not interested in the Debt Ceiling. If they were they would have everything on the table including increasing revenues and reducing the DOD budget. Not the case.

THe GOP/TP radicals are not being forth coming or truthful in wanting to do anything. They are betting the farm on this country failing and they will do everything they can to do this.

The problem is that criticizing politicians for their personal beliefs is quite a slippery slope. Do we really want our politicians to tailor their beliefs to what is politically expedient? I hold a lot of personal beliefs that I don't feel I have the right to impose on other folks. So to me, it is not about expecting someone to endorse my personal choices, instead it is about expecting them to endorse the right of everyone to "pursue happiness" within reason.

I agree with what you are saying but you don't think the President could be making a small effort to repeal DOMA? I understand that this would be a low priority in these economic times but it just seems that there is no effort in this direction whatsoever. As I said I can't get passionate about this as it is too logical that gays should be allowed to marry.

The walk-out was Kabuki theater...To make the President come to the table and he has...it was inevitable...

Gay Marriage in NY will create a new industry and increase tourism revenues substantially as gays flock to NY to marry...happening already. BILLIONS of dollars in increased revenues for my state...

I am a huge President Obama supporter; but this is an issue I take exception to, in general. I am pretty sure in my lifetime we will look back on this entire issue as Gay Suffrage or something.

Marriage has NO place in the legal arena ANYWAY. I guess it was just easier to tap into an existing institution to grant some legal rights and benefits? But isolating one group FOR benefits and one group with a 'separate but equal; well okay, not quite equal but not completely ignoring you unless you have the misfortune of living in a city or state that thinks you're an abomination' type veil is just a bunch of hooey.

All citizens should have the legal right to enter into a legal arrangement that is recognized by their government (local, state and federal). If their church chooses to not participate,...that's between them, their church, etc. But the FEDERAL government of which Obama is the current residing influence should be able to articulate this basic tenet without getting his Christianity or Muslimhood knickers in a knot.

Anything less, is well,...uncivilized. And if I were Gay, I would certainly feel 'less than'. I think Ellen DeGeneres said it best to John McCain, "You can sit here; but you can't sit over there."

DON9876543

I believe the reason republicans walked out of the meeting last week was that the Democrats refuse to consider any plan for the deficit. THe "tax rich" scheme gives us peanuts any anyway is moot since there already is an end date.

Don, your belief and the actual facts are two entirely different things. And as is typical with radicals on both sides you state your opinion and then proceed to demonize the opposition based upon your originally stated false premise.

As was reported last week, the Republicans walked out of the talks because the Democrats have insisted on Revenue Increases being a part of the current plan to curb the deficit, along with the spending decreases already agreed to by the Democrats.

You really might want to learn to read and comprehend better. Being informed is a voting American citizens moral obligation. Listening to talk radio, biased commentaries from television media pundits, or internet blogs like this do not qualify as un-biased sources of information. True research into the pro's and con's of an issue takes time and effort in order for the seeker to obtain a complete picture of the risks and benefits of a certain piece of legislation. Reducing complex issues down to sound bytes only serves to provide the vast majority with misinformation so that they will ultimately cast their vote for the very political ideology that they have/had previously opposed (See 2010 WI and MI governor's races along with Gov. Crisite)

PS. New York's Gay Marriage Law will certainly generate an Economic Boom. I can't wait for my first New York Gay Wedding,...It will be an amazing affair, I have NO doubt!

(I just hope no one has the POOR taste to use a Trump building for the event!)

Alan NJ & Clara:

I agree with both of you on the "Same Sex" marriage. It is personal and we either have equality for all our citizens or we do not. Some may object on religious grounds and that is ok with me. That is their right within their church for their members. If the members do not like it they can join another church that does not have a problem with it. What I object to it trying to force that belief on me.

Why has President Obama not done something about DOMA I do not know. He said he would not fight it in court, ok that is a start, but how hard is it to go that one more step further?

I think it is going to happen sooner or later.

Terrific interview with David Gregory on Sunday, though.

No, these folks need their daddy, President Obama, to come up with a plan first, so then they have something to come out and grandstand about

There appears to be an internal 'riff' brewing amongst Boehner & Cantor!

What better time for these two to get in a power struggle? *shakes head*

Cantor said he'll remain on the sidelines until President Obama tackles "the tax issue."

"Regardless of the progress that has been made, the tax issue must be resolved before discussions can continue," Cantor said in a statement.

Cantor's announcement led the negotiators to cancel a meeting scheduled for later Thursday.

Democrats were quick to charge that it wasn't truly the tax provisions that prompted Cantor's exit, but his desire to shift the political burden onto House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) should the Republicans be forced to accept certain revenue increases as part of a debt-ceiling deal

Boehner is under intense pressure from his right flank – including Cantor and a number of Tea Party backed freshmen – to oppose any provision resembling a tax hike, even the elimination of tax subsidies to businesses making record profits

http://thehill.com/

Between Christie (NJ), Walker (WI), Kasich (OH), and Snyder (MI), all Republican, all have their state budgets in order. This while Cuomo (NY), Brown (CA), Malloy (CT), all Democrats, all have their state budgets in a total mess. So Christie is correct when he says Obama hasn't a clue on how to negotiate. The Republicans on the other hand do know how to accomplish the goals of their states, they make the hard choices for their citizens, they lead their states. Obama and the Democrats have no plans, demagogue the Republicans, and pretend there isn't a problem. Look at the states that are succeeding (run by Republicans) and the states that are failing (run by Democrats). The proof of who is doing the job is quite clear, it is the Republicans.

Good morning, Nash. How great to get leadership advice from Gov. Christie---he showed real leadership when he took the state helicopter to his son's baseball game. Wonder how he got to the station this morning?

I heard the governor's quote about "principled compromise"---but his fellow Republicans don't seem to believe in that concept. It is their way or the highway. It is a reminder to me that we need to work harder to elect people for whom the word "compromise" means something.

MB-

Senator Coburn is the lone republican to speak openly about the need to not only cut spending but to increase revenue.

SEN. TOM COBURN, R-Okla.: Look, this isn't the good old days in America. We're at risk.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Oklahoma Republican Tom Coburn, one of the sponsors of the ethanol amendment, sees that vote as evidence many in his party are shifting their thinking, something he believes both parties must do in order to reverse the dire fiscal course the country is on.

SEN. TOM COBURN: Do you think we can -- we can actually solve this problem without compromising on some of the things that are important? And that doesn't mean you compromise your principle. It means, how do we fix a very real problem that is imminently going to change everybody's outcome for the future in this country if we fail to do it? It's a big challenge, and it's much bigger than most people know. And it's much more dangerous than most people know."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/goptaxes_06-24.html

As we both have stated support for implementing Simpson/Bowles do you expect senator Coburn's position to gain any traction in the rest of the party as the election season (fighting season?) progresses?

Nash:

It is called talking out of both sides of your mouth (hypocrisy) and praying that nobody notices. Well people are starting to notice, the GOP/TP is being exposed for what they really are and people do not like it. They are slowly starting to realize they were sold a rotten bag of goods.

Just hope that it is not too late.

Between Christie (NJ), Walker (WI), Kasich (OH), and Snyder (MI), all Republican, all have their state budgets in order. This while Cuomo (NY), Brown (CA), Malloy (CT), all Democrats, all have their state budgets in a total mess. So Christie is correct when he says Obama hasn't a clue on how to negotiate.

Really? You cite 4 Republican governors and 3 Democratic governors as proof of President Obama's inability to negotiate?

Your powers of deduction are truly astounding.

dangerfield-

I don't know that either party is going to be willing to address both spending cuts and changes to the nation's tax code ahead of the November 2012 elections. I strongly doubt it. It's almost certainly too late to get a comprehensive agreement to address the national debt crisis this late in the political cycle.

Had President Obama immediately and vigorously embraced the Plan of the debt commission last December 1st, and then subsequently linked arms with Senator Coburn and Senator Durbin (both signed off on the debt commssion Plan) and other members of both parties willing to climb aboard, it's hard to say where we would be right now.

In my mind, the President missed a real opportunity. I wish the President had displayed the same decisiveness last December that he displayed in dispatching Osama Bin Laden, but for whatever reason, he chose not to.

So...here we are, seven months later, messing with the debt ceiling.

I'll say this much...

Ultimately, any agreement on a long-term comprehensive effort to tackle the nation's debt will look a lot like what Coburn has in mind...if it happens at all.

That's going to require movement on the part of President Obama and the Democrats as well as the leadership and rank-and-file Republicans in Congress.

I'm hopeful...

What's the alternative, dangerfield?

Noid: Your powers of deduction are truly astounding.

I know this is a challenge for you Noid, so I'll try to take it real slow for you. The Republicans executives in the country currently are the governors. Each of the ones listed have taken over from Democrats and have turned the economic situation for their states from a negative to a positive. They are "hands-on" governors, they made the hard choices, they have worked to make their states work.

In contrast, on a national level, Obama is nowhere to be seen. He has no plans for the economy, he is more interested in campaigning and in fund raising, and he biggest "negotiation" is done on the golf course. The man is detached from his job, and from the people. Obama really has no clue on how to proceed with solving the problems of the country.

I hope that helps you Noid.

Now that the president will be forced to draw with "bright lines" what he thinks needs to be done, maybe we will see some movement from both sides. But if Grover has his way, the most likely scenario I envision is this...

The alternative...

Sundance; I cant swim!

Butch Cassidy: Swim? Hell, the fall will kill ya!

(they run and jump off the cliff)

Joanna Smith1,

JoAnnaSmith1

Between Christie (NJ), Walker (WI), Kasich (OH), and Snyder (MI), all Republican, all have their state budgets in order. This while Cuomo (NY), Brown (CA), Malloy (CT), all Democrats, all have their state budgets in a total mess. So Christie is correct when he says Obama hasn't a clue on how to negotiate. The Republicans on the other hand do know how to accomplish the goals of their states, they make the hard choices for their citizens, they lead their states. Obama and the Democrats have no plans, demagogue the Republicans, and pretend there isn't a problem. Look at the states that are succeeding (run by Republicans) and the states that are failing (run by Democrats). The proof of who is doing the job is quite clear, it is the Republicans.

They might have their budgets in order but only on federal tax dollars. "Red" states take more back from the fed than they pay in and those "blue" states get less from the fed than they pay in. So in essence, those states that you are touting are in such good shape are so because of the subsidies of the states you are saying are in such bad shape. Perhaps if those federal tax dollars went to the "blue" states that paid them instead of subsidizing the "red" states perhaps they would be in better shape.

Exactly, dangerfield.

And this fall is definitely going to kill us.

Unless we start learning to swim.

LBJ would have put Mitch and Harry in a room TOGETHER (not separate meetings) and told them to work something out if they ever wanted to leave that room with, um all the parts they went in with...

Agree with you Groucho. I don't see where suspending the Constitution ever works. I think that it's just a simple thing where their taking the easy way out instead of solving the problem that they have. It may be a little harder but the long term solution is to follow the Constitution rather than suspend it.

IR..

You will never get an argument from me on that point!

Trying to circumvent to Constitution leads to consequences that can never be undone.

Groucho:

Morning, I also agree with you and IR. This is an American Problem not a Democrat or Republican issue. We are all in the same little boat and we better start sharing the rowing and bailing or we are all going to be in for a very long and cold swim. Did I tell you I do not like Sharks, they bite everybody.

Nice post, have a great day.

Exactly Groucho Exactly

Agree with you all. Nicely said.

There are some things we should be able to agree on regardless of political persuasion. One of those should be power grabs in which government tries to usurp powers historically vested in the CITIZENS. I really don't care who runs the statehouse in Michigan--this law is WRONG.

Seems to me Jody that it is also an economic issue---when budgets are tighter than ever, school boards will take free "educational packages" to save money.

Steeler Fan. Yes, they do and I doubt they realize who paid for it.

It's clear that Obama is for raising taxes, at least when he talks about it in a general sense. But he won't raise taxes because to do so would require him to go on the record as to who would be getting their taxes raised. Obama knows that the best case scenario for his re-election is him winning with a razor thin margin in the 2012. He can't afford to lose anyone that may vote for him by raising their taxes. This is why Obama has remained a non-participant in the budget/debt negotiations. He doesn't want the stink of him raising taxes on him, he instead just remains on the campaign trail blaming everyone else for his poor performance.

Mixed Bag, ethanol can be made with sustances that would not effect food prices. Hemp for instance.

We need to get off oil and anything that helps the alternative fuel market should be kept in place. The republicans scream about our children and grandchildren, don't we want to leave our heirs a planet free from pollution and toxic waste?

Andie-

The point was the deletion of the ethanol subsidy to add revenue to the government's coffers.

The subsidy is a bad idea for a number of reasons, and should be halted immediately.

I would go along with some tax increases, but only with the absolute assurance that named programs would be defunded entirely- there are hundreds that would meet the criteria, such as the new "secret shopper program"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57824.html

In addition, I want a guarantee that the GAO report that outlined $200 billion a year in overlapping and redundant federal programs be used to make that $200 billion a year a permanent cut in spending.

Only when that is done will I support tax increases. Otherwise, we simply find ourselves here again in short order.

Im with you NJNBnj I dont have an issue with raising taxes, in fact I would gladly pay more taxes, if we could get these people to just shut up with the hate festival thats been going on.

Can't agree with you on Governor Christie's leadership ability, Groucho.

Last week, we saw the passage of benefit and pension reform legislation through a New Jersey state legislature controlled by Democrats.

That's an example of exactly the sort of bipartisan leadership that's needed at every level of government if the nation's problems are going to addressed.

Groucho:

I was watching him this AM on MSNBC morning Joe - He said if people talk nice to him he will be warm and fuzzy back. I just thought that was funny. But as you say he plays politics very well. I do not agree with his positions on most things and the people of NY will deal with that.

We got screw balls on both sides of the aisle and I really think people are getting more into what is going on. Nobody is going to be real happy at the hard choices, but as long as the choices move the country forward and we are all pulling together (equally) I can support the person that has the guts to do that.

The biggest problem I have now is that the sacrifices are not being spread equally across the board. I do believe we should have everything on the table. Fix what we can and get rid of what does not add any benefits to the long term survival of this country.

Mixed Bag..

My friend, this is where we disagree.

The State unions had already agreed to concessions on paying more for their healthcare and pension costs as well as other concessions.

Their pension and healthcare costs then become cost neutral to NJ.

He stripped them of their rights as a political grab to diminish their political power. We both know that unions are huge supporters of the Democratic party. This was payback, pure and simple.

He's following the example of the other more conservative governors in the country.

As I said, great politician, thus far to me, lousy leader and his numbers are begining to show it.

I agree with David Brooks, in that while I am not in favor of many of his policies, I am in favor of the way that he went about informing the electorate about his budget, by holding dozens of town meetings, explaining the why's and wherefores to the people of the state.

Brooks;

If you look at what -- the way Chris Christie governed New Jersey, you may not like the bill he passed into law this week, but he was out there with 30 town hall meeting, with charts, with explaining, here's our situation, and here's my plan.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/sandb_06-24.html

http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2010/09/gov_chris_christie_continues_t.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/nj_gov_chris_christie_to_hold.html

Almost 20 already this year, and some have been "lively", but he's out in front of his policies and willing to present and debate their merits, and that is how you govern effectively.

dangerfield..

Like I said, excellent politician.

Couches issue in a way they sound plausible. Loud and boisterous and arrogant and when you yell with a stern face it make you seem like you know what you're talking about.

Unions would have been dollar neutral with their concessions. He needs to come up with half million for education dollars to comply with State law he violated. Walked away from the largest public works project in the US and owed the feds 800+ million. Cuts to municipalities caused my real estate taxes to go up 12%. Where's my homestead rebate...not happening again. Gay marriage? PERSONALLY against it based on religious reasons so he will never sign it. Religious reasons, not the law.

Cuomo should be the model for governors. Took an ineffective and corrupt legislature and in 6 months turned it into a model of efficiency cause he rolled up his sleeves and took charge.

If it was payback, Groucho, the New Jersey Democratic state legislature was all-in with Governor Christie last week.

Apparently they were interested in payback as well.

Or...maybe they simply agreed with Governor Christie on the issue.

In any event, these days...I don't look down on bipartisanship when it occurs.

I actually like it, Groucho.

Groucho-

Where do you live? NJ? NY?

As a life-long New Yorker, I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to Andy Cuomo, and your assessment of either governor is a tad premature at this point in time.

All praise to Andy for shepherding the marriage equality bill through the "still corrupt" legislature, but to say that he should be the "model" for all governors is a stretch that few New Yorkers, even those of us who voted for him and like him would agree with at this point...

MB and Dangerfield..

Live in both states actually so I get to see the best of both and the worst of both.

I may not agree with all the legislation Cuomo passed but he took a GOP controlled legislature and passed a democrats agenda. Nothing, absolutely nothing from either party got passed in the lase session. Pure stalemate and the state and its people were told be damned.

Look at the few Democrats that switched sides on the union vote in NJ and what counties they represent. Will tell you a lot.

Good day.

Groucho-

Hasn't Chris Christie been able to use a New Jersey state legislature controlled by Democrats to pass his agenda?

Aren't you applying a double standard with Governor Christie?

Confidence and Bravado are my two words for Christie. He was blathering on MJ this morning about leadership and he has YET to acknowledge that the main reason he had the luxury to CUT education funding was due to a HEFTY 100 Million Dollar GIFT from Mark Zuckerburg. Ironically, Z-man brokered the deal with Cory Booker; but that didn't stop Christie from essentially butting in and acting like it was his brain child:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/education/23newark.html

I am not buying what Christie is pawning. He just doesn't seem to have a genuine, non defensive bone in his body. And his whining about President Obama's leadership is kinda' priceless. I guess President Obama should just do a bunch of recess appointments this summer. I mean what does he stand to lose? Most of those positions would term out by the next Presidential race anyway.

Kathleen Sebelius is the BEST example of a non party governor who legislated from the middle of a OTHER party state.

Agreed, I do not think she can win either. I think this could be another McCain/Palin reincarnation - and we know how the first one went. A flip/flopper and an unstable person running on the same ticket. Sounds familiar. What is that word for I think i have been here before and done that???

Yeah, that Barack Obama is one smart cookie. Too bad President Bush didn't listen to him about not starting an unneeded war in Iraq. While cutting taxes.

And then there was that whole getting into bed with big business, letting them outsource all our jobs and and use the stock and mortgage markets as their personal playgrounds . . . and when the fun was over, they stuck us with the bill . . . and they got to keep their bonus!

Yeah, that "deficit that didn't matter" turned out to be one important SOB, eh? Don't worry though, the oil revenues from Iraq will take care of it. *winky wink*

Obama was right then, and he's right now. The reason the debt ceiling needs to be raised now is the same as it was then: Irresponsible leadership by the right wing of the Republican Party. If it weren't for the Bush tax cuts, the national debt would have largely been paid off over Bush's eight years of misrule. You can't blame the $800 billion Obama stimulus for the $2 trillion deficit and the $14 trillion debt. At least you have to be a Republican who's not too good at arithmetic to blame him.

We currently have the lowest % of taxes(REVENUE) to GDP and the HIGHEST % of spending...

http://economyinperspective.com/gdp

MARK SHIELDS:

No, I think, Jim, that what we see here is that, over the last 60 years, last 60 years, really, since the Truman administration, the highest percentage of gross domestic product that the government has spent is today, all right, the highest percentage, 25.6 percent of the gross domestic product, which is higher than it is historically and naturally.

And the lowest percentage of gross domestic product that we have ever collected in taxes is this year. Now, I mean, to sit here and say that we're going to resolve it by just cutting spending, which has to be cut, no question about it, but without cutting -- without increasing taxes -- increasing revenues -- because we don't want to say taxes -- I just think it's sheer folly. I mean, I think it -- you're listening -- in Never Never Land.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/sandb_06-24.html

How can we get out of this hole without increasing revenues?

"We currently have the lowest % of taxes(REVENUE) to GDP and the HIGHEST % of spending..."

Hmmm...

That's not going to work, is it?

Too bad we didn't have a debt commission recommend a Plan to address BOTH issues...

Always, you really need to study the consequences of our not raising the debt ceiling, even not raising it for just one week will add enormously to the debt.

This is not like having your credit card limit raised. It will have long and far reaching effects both immediately and in the future. Those that would use the good faith and the vast economic powers of the US to achieve partisan objectives on either side are not doing the country any favors.

When this problem first came up the GOP saw it as another way to show the President they would not work with him and from there it has evolved to their walking out on the talks. The conservatives have no intention of doing anything that would help the country move even an inch forward.

Mixed Bag

Too bad we didn't have a debt commission recommend a Plan to address BOTH issues...

Too bad we don't have a Republican Party that is willing to address one of them no matter what. The Democrats are ready to agree to more spending cuts, but the Republicans absolutely refuse to accept anything that would raise government revenues and will let the nation default on its debts if they don't get their way. But the GOP is half right: America doesn't have a revenue problem. It has a Republican problem.

So now that you've had your "Everything republican evil" rant, as usual...what do you propose Houston? A military coup? Holding your breath and stamping your feet until everyone agrees with you?

There are republicans, notably Senator Tom Coburn (it's on this thread) who have broken ranks with the Grover Nordquist "no new taxes" pledge and realize that without raising revenues, cutting expenses won't be enough.

It doesn't take anything to complain or accuse or stigmatize; Coburn's a (problem?) republican who is out on a limb. Will you support his stance and/or the implementation of S/B, or do you have an alternative that would bring BOTH sides closer together?

Houston-

Why didn't President Obama join Senator Coburn, Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL), and the other members of the "Gang Of Six" in an effort round up bipartisan support for the Plan submitted by his own debt commission?

Or...

Submit an alternative of his own capable of garnering bipartisan support?

Yeah Houston, why doesn't President Obama take time off from his constitutionally assigned duties to do Congress's job for them more? What is up with that? lol

Mixed Bag

Houston-

Why didn't President Obama join Senator Coburn, Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL), and the other members of the "Gang Of Six" in an effort round up bipartisan support for the Plan submitted by his own debt commission?

WHAT gang of six? Didn't you hear that all the Republicans quit because the Democrats insisted that tax increases were needed as well as spending cuts? And that includes Coburn. Since then, Coburn has been sounding more reasonable about eliminating subsidies, but the new Republican orthodoxy is that eliminating subsidies isare the same as tax hikes, and therefore, anathema.

Submit an alternative of his own capable of garnering bipartisan support?

You've GOT to be kidding. You know very well that the Republicans in Congress would oppose anything Obama proposed, unless it was exactly what they wanted so they could claim that he capitulated to them.

dangerfield

So now that you've had your "Everything republican evil" rant, as usual...what do you propose Houston? A military coup? Holding your breath and stamping your feet until everyone agrees with you?

Dangerfield, you're a liar. I never said everything Republican is evil or anything close to it. The reality is that the CURRENT budget problem is almost entirely due to the Bush tax cuts, Bush wars, and Bush Recession. The Democrats are to blame for being too willing to "compromise" with them, and that includes Obama. You can squeal and holler all you want, but those are the facts.

BTW: As for Republicans NOT being evil all the time, I definitely think the four Republicans in the NY state senate deserve a great deal of credit for defying the threats from the ultra-right extremists in their party and voting for the marriage equality act. That took a great deal of courage. They took a lot bigger risks than the Democrats who voted for the bill did.

why doesn't President Obama take time off from his constitutionally assigned duties to do Congress's job for them more? What is up with that? lol

June 27, 2011, 6:30 am

Congressional Week Ahead: Obama Enters Budget Talks
By CARL HULSE

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/congressional-week-ahead-obama-enters-budget-talks/

The president's job is to lead...and now he will have to.lol

Hou-

you can say I'm wrong, or misinformed but calling me a liar is just plain stupid. Put you ax away and maybe you can have an intelligent conversation with someone.

What was your proposal? All is see is more ranting...

Houston-

That's not at all why Senator Coburn left the ""Gang Of Six". His argument was that there wasn't as much emphasis on spending cuts as on revenue increases.

Coburn said "It's got to be balanced. And I didn't perceive where we were was balanced."

Further, Senator Coburn and fellow "Gang Of Six" member Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID) both voted for the President's debt commission Plan as commission members...and that Plan includes the complete overhall of the tax code and other tax increases in an effort to increase revenue.

In any event, every member of the "Gang Of Six", Republican OR Democrat, has been more responsible and demonstrated more leadership on the debt crisis than President Obama has...far more responsible, Houston.

Mixed Bag

Houston-

That's not at all why Senator Coburn left the ""Gang Of Six". His argument was that there wasn't as much emphasis on spending cuts as on revenue increases.

Coburn said "It's got to be balanced. And I didn't perceive where we were was balanced."

The Republicans and some conservative Dems think a balance is 3 dollars in spending cuts for every one dollar of revenue increases, despite the fact that the most of the current deficit is due to shortfalls in revenue, not any recent spending increases. Some "balance."

That's what it says in this article with Coburn's quote on "balance":

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/coburn-drops-out-group-seeking-cut-defic

In any event, every member of the "Gang Of Six", Republican OR Democrat, has been more responsible and demonstrated more leadership on the debt crisis than President Obama has...far more responsible, Houston.

Colburn walked out of negotiations, followed by the other Senate Republicans. Then Cantor walks out of Biden's talks because somebody hurt his fee-fees by saying the naughty "tax" word in his presence. If that's your notion of leadership, you've got a strange idea of what leadership is.

Dangerfield

Hou-

you can say I'm wrong, or misinformed but calling me a liar is just plain stupid. Put you ax away and maybe you can have an intelligent conversation with someone.

I think telling ridiculous lies about other people on a message board the way that you and some other here do is just plain stupid. If that's what you consider it "intelligent" conversation, I do not agree.

Come on Houston! - Little dangerfield would never stoop so low as to call someone a liar dontcha know? lol

Here's his own words from last Sat to Nashville Fan:

You are aliar and a cheat; .

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/24/6935760-week-ahead-the-money-chase?commentId=55362438#c55343335

BTW - I located that comment he made to you about knocking your teeth down your throat. Let me know if you want a copy...

Again, Houston-

"Gang Of Six" members Coburn and Crapo signed off on the President's debt commission Plan, with its revenue increases.

So did Democratic Senators Dick Durbin and Kent Conrad...with the commission Plan's spending cuts.

I'll bet President Obama is reconsidering his decision not to accept the Plan offered by his commission about now.

Instead, he chose not to lead but to demagogue the issue.

Too bad.

For him, and for the nation.

And we still don't have his plan, do we, Houston?

Or yours.

And, by the way...

If you really believe that Senator Durbin wants 3 dollars in spending cuts for every dollar in revenue...you're even more obtuse than I thought you were.

Houston likes to make over the top accusations and use insulting language because?...

You act like a spurned lover....lol it's getting creepy...no wait, it's there...

Yea Bachmann go away!!!!

It is only our debt to other nations which is $14.4 trillion. Our total U.S. government debt including all unfunded liabilities foreign and domestic is over $54 trillion.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Our debt to other nations is less than 40% of the $14.4 trillion.

The rest is held by US companies, taxpayers and unions.

Don't be so harsh... they probably stayed up all night coming up with that!

Saint Subversive

"Bachman's Turn for Overdrive" ... yuk yuk yuk. Ill bet someone thought that was a very clever pun. Not.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Really?

Well, you ain't seen nothin' yet pal, because she'll be takin' care of business...

(More where they came from)

Guess who?

and maybe like a Bat out of He!! she'll be gone gone gone.

That's "Meatloaf"...now I'm "Laughing"...

Wow!

So full of "facts" and deep research!

I can't imagine how anyone can dispute the ignorant, hate filled, party ideological, TRASH that you've posted.

830 BILLION dollars wasted paying off supporters and propping up unions.

THREE record over 1.3 Trillion dollar deficit budgets in a row.

Government GROWTH of 35% in the middle of a recession that's beginning to rival the Depression.

The HIGHEST corporate tax in the world.

RECORD debt.

HALF the nation not paying income taxes, with most of that half getting back MORE than they paid in.

An UNCONSTITUTIONAL mandate that forces every American to buy a product of pay a fine.

The out and out THEFT of half a trillion dollars from MediCare to pay for that unconstitutional law.

LIES from the left on the cost of that unconstitutional law by saying it will "lower the debt" by over 400 billion dollars when the CBO says that it will actually RAISE the debt by a minimum of 1.3 Trillion dollars.

A "summer of recovery" that SANK us even lower into this recession.

RECORD foreclosures on homes because Democrats defended the "idea" that "every American has a right to own a home", whether they could afford to actually buy it or not.

The defense of Fannie and Freddie by Democrats as they built and supported the housing bubble by buying up hundreds of billions of dollars in bad mortgages and then selling them as "securities", CAUSING the present recession.

Massive over-regulation, taxation, and unionization of industries in this country, literally FORCING them to take jobs overseas, and then attacks on those corporations by the SAME people that forced them out of the country.

And as usual, the hate filled putrid attacks on people that you disagree with politically by calling them the description of a foul sexual act.

I'm sure that all your "friends" just love the out and out STUPIDITY of what you posted. But you'll find the the MAJORITY of this nation is sick of your idiocy as reflected by the 2010 elections, and the upcoming 2012 elections.

Dearest Cheryl:

I am really glad you got that off your chest. Now that you have the ignorance out, take the time to put some reality in. Here are a few points you may want to research:

-The majority of corporations in the U.S. pay ZERO taxes.

-The misleading stat about 1/2 of Americans not paying income tax ignores the incovenient truth that 10% of Americans are unemployed, some Americans are retired, some are children. Wages have remained stagnant while expenses have risen and therefore there is a large number of working poor who simply do not earn enough "income" to pay taxes. Those with the income pay the taxes, Cheryl.

-The money that the health reform law removed from Medicare was the money going to give a government subsidy to private, for-profit insurance companies.

-Teabaggers named themselves, so take some "personal responsibility" for that. Google is your friend.

-Massive greed is what forced the "corporate people" to move jobs overseas. If the regulation was so massive, how in the hell did the "regulators" miss all the fraud that led to the collapse of housing and Wall Street? Ever heard of a lil' company called BP? Ever heard of a "blow out preventer"? Was that stuff "over-regulated"?

I'll just stop there . . . probably already too much for you to digest . . . good luck on Planet Talking Point. . . Planet Earth is ready for you anytime you decide to land.