Too bad these 'negotiations' are not done in public, so we can see what each side is REALLY fighting for.

I suspect the Republicans oppose tax increases because it just gives Democrats more money to spend, and Democrats don't want to cut spending because it might lose votes from those being subsidized by government spending.

Here is my solution to the Deficit problem, for what its worth (Maybe 2 cents, which I'll gladly contribute towards the debt);

1 - Eliminate the tax cut extension for the 'rich' and close most of their 'loopholes' = Deficit reduction of about $1.5 Trillion over 10 years.

2 - Either make Medicare pay for itself by increasing contributions or cutting costs/benefits = Deficit reduction of about $2.1 Trillion over 10 years.

3 - 'Tweak' Social Security by gradually increasing the retirement age to 69, and increase the contributions by employers and employees by one quarter of 1% each = Deficit reduction of about $300 Billion over 10 years.

4 - Cut back on Defense spending and end the wars = Deficit reduction of about $750 Billion over 10 years.

5 - Cut Discretionary spending by 10% = Deficit reduction of about $800 Billion over 10 years.

That would be estimated cuts in the Deficit of $5.45 Trillion over 10 years, even more than the $4 Trillion recommended by the Deficit Commission.

I welcome comments - provided they are worth at least 2 cents each.

Rove, GOP et al. are sucking the life out of America. And how much more power corporations will have, they think, when the US is flailing around in the global economic waters.

Crashing the US economy to provide for the top 2% tax cuts and tax breaks for corporations is fundamental to the right wing agenda. Chaos, block and blame-game have proven very successful for Republicans. What plan have they ever had to change/adapt/improve the lives of ordinary Americans in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018...?

Democrats, it is time to turn the tide. GOP is willing to collapse the economy in order to get top dollar for themselves and their benefactors.

The Elected GOP is bluffing. The Tea party may not care about being relected but the Career GOP will vote for the debt limit increase and at terms favorable to the Democratic party if the Democrats stand their ground. The GOP is more frightened of incuring the wrath of Wallstreet, their backers, then they are main street. I see this as a final temper tantrum before Boehner bows to the inevitable.

We are dealing with a president who say a, in a speech just this week, "(N)o hill is too steep, no horizon is beyond our reach".

When the CBO came put with the or debt analysis, I understood what the heck he was talking about.

You think Obama is serious, all of a sudden, about cutting the debt? He has no clue HOW to do it.

It is done by growing the economy. It is done by cutting spending- reducing the bloated bureaucracy, cutting regulations that make no sense, enforcing those that DO.

Two examples- that Boeing plant in S.C., would have employed 1000 workers, and generated a profit. Both of those would have contributed REVENUE. Instead, the Obama administration blocked the plant opening, (in a paean to the unions), so now monies will be expended fighting what will be a losing battle in the courts- for both sides. Sure, Boeing will eventually prevail, but at what cost to the economy, and to Boeing, which could put those funds to much more productive use?

Another example is the GAO report, requested by Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown. It showed that 40% of military materials were manufactured in China- and were either counterfeit or fake. Thus, seatbelt latches that don't; brake linings made out of seaweed- and, more frightening, computer components and chips for F15 fighter commuters and DoD computers that are easily copied by the Chinese military.

Do I need to tell you that at least one military contractor is going to jail for false swearing,(he was supposed to ,manufacture here, but actually imported from China, and pocketed the difference in the cost as a bonus).

So, one guy gets caught. The rest?

That is what we should be paying these federal employees to do- plant inspections. The pharmaceutical companies do it to their suppliers- heck, the floor cleaner companies do it for their suppliers. Think maybe this is a case where the govern,net should be doing it?

Need another example of waste? How about Cree Industries. They have been in the news a little bit lately- Obama made a little drop-by, to show how well his stimulus funds worked out. Cree got $39 million in 2009- and used the funds to open a plant in China in 2010.

I guess when Obama talks about his stimulus creating 3 million jobs, he is, technically, telling the truth- he just never mentions that those jobs were, in fact, created in China.

Too bad those jobs do not feed revenue to the treasury here.

He releases oil from the strategic reserve, which is meant to offset supply shortages HERE, at a net cost to the government, rather than opening up drilling on our lands, which would generate revenue, both in royalties and tax receipts.

He has "economic" conferences with donors- one of whom is my former governor, Jon Corzine. For those not "in the know" those is a guy who got kicked out as CEO of Goldman for incompetence- and proved himself to be just that as governor. He was so savvy, he invested hundreds of millions of state pension funds in Lehman Brothers- less than three months before they collapsed. When anyone with an ounce of sense was getting OUT.

So, add Corzine to the list of economic brain trusts with whom Obama surrounds himself. Anybody else wonder why we are in this fix?

The New York Times declared Obama the greatest living orator, or some such nonsense. I will not argue- but, if you ever needed proof that THAT alone is not a qualification to hold the office of the presidency, you've got it.

I'd say I Told You So, but all of us are going down with this sinking ship, and there do not seem to be any life rafts available.

roy - got a problem with your number one. Just cut way back on allowable deductions across the board. Once the economy recovers in 2013 or 2014 (fingers crossed) revert all the income tax cuts back to the clinton era or maybe even 1980.

Number 5 was a tough sell in reducing the FY2011 budget but we need to INSIST that it be accross the board. No favorites.

There should be a number 6 as well. Eliminate or at least minimize the duplication of services between agencies and sell off government assets no longer utilized or only marginally utilized. All within the limits defined by national security and public safety of course.

add Corzine to the list of economic brain trusts with who Obama surrounds himself. Anybody else wonder why we are in this fix?

Don't worry, No Jo. President Obama doesn't listen to his advisors.

He formed the Debt Commission, and ignored their recommendations.

He asked his legal experts about his war powers regarding Libya, and ignored their advice.

The Pentagon, Secretary of State Clinton and Mr. Gates advised against his Afghanistan strategy, and he's pulling out troops anyway.

Chances are whatever advice he gets from Corzine will probably be ignored too.

First off Candice, whether it is a debt commission or military leaders, the president is not a puppet that is dictated to. Advice is only intended to be considered, with some and maybe none of it implemented. Especially in regard to the military. A civilian must be the commander-in-chief or we'd be a military dictatorship.

Secondly, to the usual right-wing riff raff, it's unconstitutional for elected officials to make pledges to lobbyists (Norquist tax pledge)--even treasonous. Excuse me, but in our Republic elected officials are supposed to represent the people, not lobbyists like Grover Norquist. If the Dems did this, the GOP/TP would have a hissy fit.

Third, you know what caused Eric Cantor to leave the meeting? A discussion about corporate tax credits for corporate jets. Where's your friggin' outrage about that? Everything was progressing as long as the Dems were compromising on spending cuts. But the minute the conversation turned to topics such as ending subsidies for Big Oil, the Republican jagoffs turn on the drama.

Vote the GOP/TP out, from congress to governors and local-level elections. Obama/Biden - 2012. Let's move forward, put the car in "D" for drive.

TP where is your outrage at the people who write the tax laws?

You know that guy named Charlie Rangle.

Oh, never mind, he is a democrat after all.

I'd like to put to car in drive, but like the real estate market it just keeps going backwards. I think that "D" is really an "R."

I am outraged at the tax laws, specifically the loopholes. Right now the Dems are trying to reduce the debt without hurting the fragile economy and middle class.

These corporations making record profits--where's all that money? They aren't hiring. Companies like Exxon Mobile, GE, etc. aren't paying a fair share of taxes. I'd like to see just one of you conservatives justify why you as GOP/TP supporters and/or your Republicans leadership aren't willing to compromise at least on ending corporate welfare.

The Dems aren't pure as the driven snow, but they are the lesser of two evils. We need campaign finance reform, not right-leaning SCOTUS rulings that allow corporations the same rights as individuals in influencing our elections. We need to pay for legislation to be written someone other than lobbyists. There's a lot to the issue.

In the meantime, we need to end tax credits, including for personal income tax. Why are you against this? I suspect you like your write-offs. You can't have both low tax rates and tax credits--one or the other, but not both. I'd prefer lower tax rates, because credits are always used for tax evasion. The biggest problem for Greece was no one was paying taxes.

Putting the car in "R" for reverse is what the Republican Party is all about. Been there, done that, don't need to do it again.

Sorry TP, but the direction we are going right now is not forward.

Just like the $500 billion worth of fraud and abuse in the medicare system alone, think of all the fraud and waste in other areas. I'd prefer that the government get their fiscal house in order before asking for ore money.

Like you said, it's their tax laws that are flawed. They can't get the laws right, and we know they don't follow them anyway.

THe biggest problem in Greece is the same problem here - spending too much money. And like here, corruption plays a role.

I'm thinking about putting solar on my home. You going to take that credit away? It is huge and without it there is no way I would be able to afford it.

That's the typical right-wing talking points. We are not going in the right direction because of GOP/TP over-reach and desire to take us backward. The problems with fraud in Medicare, or tax laws are NOT being addressed by Republicans in a sincere and viable way.

As usual conservatives focus on the spending problem in Greece. However, if you had an open mind and sincere interest in broadening your horizons, you'd do some research and learn that no one was paying taxes in Greece. It was just as big a problem, if not more, than spending. Basic math -- two sides to the equation -- spending AND revenues. We are having the same debate here in the U.S. with conservatives focusing on spending only.

Correct, no tax credit for solar. Instead, you should get a rebate--that's the norm. I'm single with no children paying high taxes. I accept that and am happy to help educate your children in public school, but if you want $1,000 per child tax credit, I want you to help with health care. See how that works?

muffintop1 -- Until you respond directly and honestly to points made in my first post above, I'm not interested in burning further BTUs replying to you.

"Right wing talking points" go back to "Faux Noise."

Sure seems to be a "consensus among the liberals around here.

Fraud and waste, mis-use, overspending, $5,000 toilet seats.

I'll take a pass. Get the house in order, then come ask me for more of m money.

AND TP- it's un-seasonably cold here. Please burn some more carbon, like that would make any difference at all.

There is a simple solution to the Debt limit question.

All the Democrats just need to agree with anything their Republican superiors want.

Then, those same Democrats can begin to pack their bags, as they will be leaving Washington in a mass exodus in 2012.

Frankly, I am surprised that the Justice Department has not yet rounded up these yahoos for Conspiracy to Commit Treason for signing onto Grover Norquist's Anti-Tax Pledge. They are OBVIOUSLY not doing their duty of responsibly governing this Nation and are not at all serious about reducing the deficit or the National Debt, no matter HOW loudly they scream that they are: we KNOW better than that! If they were serious about decreasing the deficit and National Debt then increasing taxation (amongst those who can not only pay for it without starving to death but have actually gained the most of ANYBODY during this recession,) would be on the list of things that need to be done. Instead they are holding the Nation hostage and intentionally destroying our economy JUST so they can TRY to blame it on President Obama which they think will win them an election.

Since they are holding the entire US hostage for their blackmail of cutting vital programs just so they can give the money away as tax breaks to those who are Too-Obscenely-Rich-To-Fail and are totally willing to not only hold up proper governance of this nation but are willing to completely destroy our economy to do so, these people need to be rounded up, indicted for Fraud, Conspiracy to Commit Treason and Crimes Against Humanity for not only forcing people out on the streets but committing mass murder by mass denial of access to proper medical care, theft of the resources needed for survival and intentional destruction of the economy, here as well as the rest of the world. They are doing this JUST for what they think is going to earn them political points. I have news for them, it is going to get them not only tossed out of office but is likely to get them all tossed into prison as well. The People of this Nation are actually watching very closely and the actual Majority of us, those of us who have not been brainwashed by the non-stop lies on Fox News and the other mainstream media, can see through their lies so VERY easily. We KNOW that President Obama did NOT cause the problem, we KNOW that he has been trying to fix the problems and we KNOW that the Repubs have been blocking EVERYTHING that could and would have not only provided immediate relief but would have addressed the reasons WHY we are where we are at to begin with. By signing onto Grover Norquist's Anti-Tax Pledge they are not only committing treason, they have signed the death warrant for the Republican Party!

I am getting to the point where I might like to see the whole credit rating and whatnot crash and burn China can foreclose on keep every US owned factory over there, so can the rest of the world. It might be just what the doctor ordered, then we might go back to building American products with American labor for Americans. Lets ride this thing till the wheels come off, then we will really know what happens. Like I said before 14 million people who are unemployed don't have much to lose, I suspect the people they are trying to protect from paying taxes have the most to lose if the economy and wall street crashes big-time. I would not budge if I was a democrat in the negotiations, I would tell the republicans to go for it, hell lets just see what really happens.

ROY WILSON-336103

Here's an interesting quote from Obama on a debate over raising the debt limit a few years ago - does anyone notice a disconnect between Obama's rhetoric and his performance?;

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of
leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own
bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from
foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.
Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally.
Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the
burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better."

SENATOR BARACK H. OBAMA, MARCH, 2006

I will tell you like I told Alwaysfaithful when he posted this, a posting of a statement made by Obama when he was a Senator 5 yrs ago. I am sure there is a BIG difference between a Senator and being the President. This @!$%# won't fly.

You righties need to give up on BS

And you pledgers also need to get with the program. You are so out of touch with the American people it is tragic.

"... more than 80 percent said placing a surtax on those making more than $1 million was acceptable, and nearly 70 percent were supportive of phasing out the Bush tax cuts for families earning $250,000 per year or more."

What is the difference then as opposed to now?

A principaled position doesn't change. Fundamental concepts do not change.

Politicians on the other hand have a distinct proclivity to change to suit the immediate re-election needs.

Situational ethics is a mean and ugly game.

As for taxing others, it is always easy to go after other's people's money. THe fact is the rich do not have enough to fix this. The middle class will have to be involved.

MJL-3, that's exactly what we tried to tell you- there is a world of difference between being a Senator for, what, a year and a half, and being president.

Now we all have to suffer the consequences for electing someon whose sole qualification for office was speechifying.

Anyone, as to your larger point, I will see your Norquist, and raise you a Soros

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57726.html

Now, I wonder. . .

Will these people be getting letters from the IRS telling them they are liable for gift taxes?

no joe, no bo, nj

MJL-3, that's exactly what we tried to tell you- there is a world of difference between being a Senator for, what, a year and a half, and being president.

Now we all have to suffer the consequences for electing someon whose sole qualification for office was speechifying.

Anyone, as to your larger point, I will see your Norquist, and raise you a Soros

Now, I wonder. . .

Will these people be getting letters from the IRS telling them they are liable for gift taxes?

You are very misguided, Norquist is MUCH more dangerous, but then He is a TEA PARTIER so you will like

him. Norquist and the GOP is what YOU and ALL taxpayers need to fear , the GOP is the party of NO unless Norquist says otherwise.

MJ3, Just maybe a crack is appearing in the stronghold Norquist has over the GOP. His upcoming sponsored debate in Las Vegas is postponed because Romney and Huntsman have taken a pass. Senators Coburn and Chambliss open to raising revenue to pass the budget deal. David Brooks is on record that budget deal will get done, but a real side show must take place first to quell the Norquist crowd.

Democrats always think taking more money from people that already pay the Majority of the Taxes in this country is Fair They continue to believe that we can tax our way out of the mess that Obama and the Democrats have gotten us into. Yet they have nothing to say about the Democrats in congress that haven't proposed or passed a Budget in over 750 days. and still tell us all what a great man Obama is and how smart he is . The only Budget that has been Proposed by the Democrats is the one that Obama proposed which the Democrats Swiftly Voted down on a 97 to 0 vote in the Senate..........

Sorry... That spin and rhetoric will NOT work this time, so save the talking point arguements.

They are gone come Nov.2012.

@ steveiam ... that's the most foolish comment Repubs make ... that the RICH pay the majority of the taxes. Well of course they do ... that just proves how lopsided income has become with "trickle down" Supply-Side economics. You have CEOs now getting paid 400X that of their hourly workers. If you have a man making $35,000 a year, and a CEO making $3,500,000 a year ... even with a flat tax the RICH are going to pay more. But net percentage wise that is NOT the case ... with all the tax loopholes and exclusions in the tax codes, you have millionaires paying a less percentage rate than that $35,000 employee. Use the X-VP Dick "I need a new heart" Cheney ... 2006 tax year, Cheney ... the richest man on Capital Hill only paid a net tax rate of LESS THAN 20% because of all his loopholes and writeoffs. That's NOT FAIR ... there has to be revenue to run this country. How many JOBS do you think Dick Cheney created by being given all those tax loopholes ... NONE.

You're obviously NOT paying attention to what is happening in the USA today ... the corporations are buying this country out ... draining it of every dime they can drain it, then sending the jobs overseas even as they, themselves get tax subsidies ... that's BS. Why do you think the TRADE is so lopsided between Inports & Exports ... because corporations are sending those jobs overseas, and making the profit and NOT reporting it as income.

Wake up, steveiam ... jesus man ... Trickle Down Economics does NOT ... NOT work ... hasn't since Reagan years. Even Reagan's economic advisor, last week, said that the Republicans are stuck in the 1980's ... their bought & paid for politicians. Wake up ... The last 3 Republican presidents are responsible for over 74% of the 14 TRILLION Nat'l Debt ... GW put over $5 trillion ... where were the Repubs when Bush was spending all that money and giving more TAX CUTS ... wake up.

MacNfries: Wonderful post. It's unfortunate that so many millions of people in our nation either don't care or refuse to look honestly at what today's Republican Party is all about. The arrogance in the GOP alone is quite unsettling. But they are not about to change their minds. They will continue to vote R and continue as always to blame everyone but themselves. And the rest of us pay the price due to stubborn antiquated ideas about what the GOP stands for. Those days are long long gone with the likes of McConnell, Boehner, Cantor, Walker, Cristie - It's horrible. A nightmare really. They've learned nothing from the recent past. Absolutely nothing.

At least there was a shining light this evening in New York with the passage of gay marriage, which would not have passed without help from the Repubicans.

I remember back when the gay community began their campaign for gay marriage.

Let me rephrase that.

I remember when I first became aware of the gay community fighting for gay marriage. At first I thought – why do they keep concentrating on this one issue? It doesn't affect me or millions of other Americans personally. But that thought lasted for all of one minute, for I realized almost immediately that of course it affects me personally. It affects everyone personally.

Because this is a civil right. And this is a right that had to be fought every single hour of every single day in order to succeed. Just like every other civil right.

So this is a win not only for the gay community but for all America. But the gay community began this fight by themselves. And slowly they began to be heard until they were successfully able to bring on board millions of non-gay Americans who felt their heart ache and fought alongside them.

Congratulations to NY State Senate. As Rachel reported, it was Republicans who made the difference. They came through.

As Keith said so eloquently – in the final analysis, all this was about was love. Glad to see people recognizing this.

Congratulations as well to Gov. Cuomo. But ultimately the congratulations goes to those who refused to give up on a matter that as they have seen takes some people a long time to come to grips with. But their tenacity won the day.

It always does.

Next. The DREAM Act. Needs our help.

You have convinced yourself that you need money from someone else or some corporation to pay for the things that you want You are so Dependant on these big corporations to pay your FAIR share of taxes instead of coming up with some great Idea and marketing the product you seem to think it is there job to pay more for you to Survive and to pay the Bills the Democrats create.

You seem to have all the Ideas. about how to get someone else to pay for all the things you so Desire. but hey why put your money where your mouth is and create some new form of Energy . or some product that people ca'nt live without. You fail to realize that it doesn't matter how much you tax a corporation that in the End that Tax only hurts the People that you claim to want to help the most. The people that can't Afford their product in the first place. They will just Raise the cost of their Goods and or Services . Passing the Taxes levied on them to the Middle class and Poor..

"... more than 80 percent said placing a surtax on those making more than $1 million was acceptable, and nearly 70 percent were supportive of phasing out the Bush tax cuts for families earning $250,000 per year or more." [reported on this newsvine yesterday]

Yet you, Boehmer and your fellow pledgers/teanuts/wingnuts/and Republicans continue to insist that you/the GOP is "pro-American" and FOR the American people. WRONG!!!

Obviously you all are FOR another dollar in your pocket only.

What part of "OUT OF TOUCH" don't you guys understand?

Charlie Rangel was the chair of the committee that wrote the taxation law. He must not have had a problem with the "loopholes and write-offs."

It seems that they are all out of touch.

@Candice ... the very wealthy (millionaires) do NOT pay anywhere close to their tax bracket they're in now. With the tax loopholes, tax exclusions, etc that have been given to them the past 30+ years, they actually pay a LESS tax RATE than a man earning just $35,000 ... you look at Dick Cheney in 2006 ... the richest on Capital Hill, and he paid the equivalent of a 19% tax rate on his multi-millions ... that's absolutely NOT RIGHT. Then you take the corporations ... they're hiring alright, OVERSEAS ... why do you think the Inport/Export Trade is so unbalanced ... we Inport more than we Export because the manufacturing jobs have been moved overseas so these corporations have less income to report. Over 70% of US corporations paid NO TAXES last year ... none, because of the subsidies and write-offs. The ONLY unprotected class is the American taxpayer ... the hourly worker.

You better understand WHO actually has control of this country of ours ... its not Republicans or Democrats ... its corporations and big business MONEY. They practically OWN the Republican party.

REVENUE ... must be on the table with Spending Cuts ... no option here, and if the country crashes, Repubs better understand that their RICH SUPPORTERS will pay a heavy loss ... the way you hurt Rich people is to take some of their money. The poor have nothing to give. Tax Cuts for the RICH for the promise to create jobs ... is BS. The Democrats have already laid $2 trillion on the table and the Repubs want MORE cuts ... no revenue increases ... no, no way ... its time EVERYONE gets hurt in this silly game of theirs. I really encourage you to look deeper into what these Repubs are all about ...

MacNfries,

What about the unions, what part do they play in the equation?

Candice-

The Democrats know cutting "subsidies" for the oil companies and carving out the "rich" for tax relief exclusion won't fly. These issues are off the table. The more they remain stuck on those two issues, the more they sound like they are simply politically grandstanding instead of actually working on a fix. Plus, villainizing the evil oil companies (that employ thousands of Americans) and the successful (who hire and innovate) only causes the country to feel more divided. They are instigating class warfare.

A better idea would be for them to come up with something new to tax. That way,they'd look like problem solvers, stand up compromisers, with new ideas. (And really, the old ideas are getting tired).

How about raising Medicare and Social Security taxes ever so slightly. This is something I think Americans would accept. The Democrats would get their increased revenue. And the Republicans might be inclined to agree.

So how about not touching medicare /ssi, What you mean to tell me that Norquist should get his way, Subsidies for these corporations won't "hurt" them a bit.

No the Dems should not give in on this one. The GOP need to "MAN UP" The repubs have been the party of no long enough

Candice, the Democrats have nailed tax increases for the richest and the elimination of subsidies to the table. Further the Democrats have offered 2 trillion in cuts which will only fly with the tax increases. We are living in 2011. The tax rate of the 30s will NOT work here.

MacNFries. You say the only way to "hurt RICH people is to take away more of their money." Is that your primary focus? To hurt? The objective should be to solve a major problem. That you emphasized "to hurt" shows the Democrat's plan of dividing the country and instigating class warfare is working.

The "adults in the room" need to accept the fact that there are issues on which both sides will never agree. Yes, that's too bad. The thing to do is to accept that and then find another way. That's the art of working things out. That's the art of leadership.

Besides, raising taxes on the "rich" won't raise that much more revenue, in the whole scheme of things. It would make those on the left feel better and victorious in some way, but it won't solve the problem. Which is more important to you - a minor victory or moving the country forward?

MJL3,

The "subsidies" your talking about is a tax deduction provided for in the Jobs Creation Act of 2004, which was passed with bipartisan support. If provides a deduction to all companies and industries for R&D, expansion and innovation. (Things we need right now, wouldn't you say?)

If you take away the deduction, then take it away for all industries - not just oil companies. That would be fair, right? That this administration feels the power to pick and choose which industries should win and lose, is very disturbing....and a slippery slope.

The "subsidies" account for about $4 billion. Do you know there are approximately 282,000 current and former federal employees who are delinquent in their taxes - taxes amounting to $3.3 billion?Let's collect that money too. That would help.

Candice unless you are megarich as well, and I'm guessing you are not, then you pay a higher percentage in taxes than Warren Buffett, so you are either very generous, or you like being taken advantage of.

Forrest -

I don't mind paying taxes as long as the money is spent with a little respect - which it's not. I would prefer that the government spent the money wisely before they ask for more. If you look at the dollars I pay versus the dollars Buffett pays, he is contributing much more than me. The "excess" he has goes towards plenty of good causes - not the government. As much as he touts the "low tax rates on the rich," I don't see him writing an extra check to the Feds. He seems to think he can direct his money more effectively than the govt.

Why are the Democrats stuck on people that make $250,000 a year? $250,000 a year is successful, I think. Not mega-rich. Why not raise taxes on people that make $500,000 a year or a million instead?

Anyway, my point is that on taxes - if the Democrats won't budge and the Republicans won't budge - they should (begrudgingly) accept that, move on and find something they can agree on. Wouldn't that be more productive and better for the country?

Why are the Democrats stuck on people that make $250,000 a year? $250,000 a year is successful, I think. Not mega-rich. Why not raise taxes on people that make $500,000 a year or a million instead?

Well that is my point they don't pay what everybody else pays, percentage wise, in fact many pay little or nothing on huge incomes, that is not fair. I agree the money is often wasted, but it was spent in the name of America, by our Government, and each and every American needs to pay a fair share of the bill. I agree $250,000 is not megarich I hope you know I knew that, but when the median income in Texas is $11.20 an hour, $23,300 if you work 365 days, $250,000 can seem rich. I do not wish to punish the wealthy I just think they should pay the same taxes I do.

I understand $250,000 can seem rich to someone in Texas. How does $23,300 correlate with the cost of living there? $250k a year might make you rich in Arkansas, middle class in Illinois and near poverty in New York. (Okay - poverty is an exaggeration, but I'm sure you get my point). That's one of the problems with just picking a number like $250k. Using that number leads me to believe the motion to "tax the rich making over $250k" is a grandstanding talking point, meant to divide, and not very well thought out.

I agree each and every American who has income should pay federal taxes, too. Those who make absurd amounts of money could pitch in more.

Simplifying the tax code and cutting out loopholes would make a big difference. (Watch out for unintended consequences though.....What would we do with all the unemployed accountants? Landfills bursting with non-degradeable plastic calculators, and mounds of recycled tax forms clogging up the streets)?

I don't know what the solution is. I do think that none of us will be willing and happy to pay more in taxes until the government can prove it won't squander our money. I think the deficit talks and the focus on spending is a good exercise that may do some good for all of us in the long run.

Back to my original point: The Dem's and Repub's need to step down from their soap boxes, concede the non-agreeable, move on, worry about the people more than their political careers, get it together, and get it done.

I need to reconsider your posts Candice we might not be as far apart as I thought.

$250,000 grand is pretty good anywhere, 23,000 is not so good everywhere. Matter of fact $23,000 was not that good 30 years ago.

$250,000 is middle class, In California. Just look at California if you need any proof that raising taxes is a good idea.

Great posts Candice.

$23,000 is mega rich in so many places around the globe. America is a super rich country.

The GDP of Mississipi (sp?), the 50th richest state is better than the gdp of Europe. Take out Miss, and West Virginia and all the other states are richer than England, or any other of the richest European countries.

It's not just picking a number. Incomes of around 106,000 is the threshold for the richest 5%, and $250,000 for the richest 2%. The gap between that and the richest 1% is astronomical. Yes, $250,000 is middle class in areas with a high cost of living. But that just shows the changes over the decades, in which 98% of Americans are making less than that, or 95% are making less than $100,000. On the other end of the spectrum, there are so many millionaires now--not so long ago it was rare. The richest 1% are so wealthy it's insane.

Look at the GINI coefficient and other measures (already mentioned CEO pay now 30% higher compared to employees in companies) and it's clear we are losing our middle class. People think the American Dream is about becoming a zillionaire, and have forgotten it's really about those at or below the poverty level being able to join the middle class.

The problem on top of the growing disparity, is that many of the rich don't pay taxes. The richest 2% are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers who are responsible for 57% of tax evasion, because they self-report their income (cheat). The richest 1% use tax shelters, as well as corporations that have their HQ in the Cayman Islands. No one is asking the rich to pay for everyone else, rather they are asking that the rich share in the burdens of this recession and to balance the budget by paying thei FAIR share.

So conservatives, just lose the talking points. It's propaganda from Fox, which is run by rich Republicans like the Koch brothers and others in Big Oil.

By the way, Dems have talked about increasing the tax rates for trust funds (Medicare/Social Security), certainly by increasing the cap currently at $106,000, which is very out-of-date.

There sure has been a lot of chatter about "talking points" and Fox around here lately.

Fox vs. ThinkProgress, Koch vs. Soros.

I think they are just the lazy way out of a discussion.

From what I have seen there just are not enough "rich" to make a difference. The numbers are in the middle class. Rates, if raised to make a difference will have to go up for all.

I have also seen studies showing that the raise in payroll taxes would have to be in the 30% range, from the first dollar. I sure hope that is not true.

I would like to know where middle class begins,I mean if 64thousand dollars per couple intitles you to medicade which will be law according to obamas new health-care where does low income start.

FOX is a cable program launched in the mid-1990s "to tell the other side of the story" (i.e., seriously skewed misinformation). ThinkProgress is a blog. No comparison in type of media or reach.

Likewise with Koch brothers vs. Soros. Soros once did some damage to the British economy, but does not influence American politics and elections the way the Koch brothers and others like Grover Norquist, Dick Armey, Roger Ailes, etc. do. The Koch brothers in particular are from Big Oil, thus GOP/TP protection of subsidies for Big Oil. The right-wing obsession with Soros started from viral E-mails--a very unreliable source. Compared to the economic meltdown caused by Wall Street and toxic mortgage securities, Soros is an angel.

Tax rates can be lower if the tax base is increased by eliminating loopholes. In regard to personal income taxes, it would be nice if everyone was subjected to third-party reporting (W2) in some way. But we will always need a progressive tax in some form because the proportion of income needed for basic needs (shelter, food, etc.) is much greater the less income a person has. If you want to see a good tax bill, I recommend Jan Schakowsky's bill.

Right now we need to help the struggling working class and cannot place more burden on this group. The economy needs to improve and wages need to go up first. As stated before, no one is asking the rich for a hand-out. The rich is being asked to share in the burden, and for those evading taxes to pay their fair share.

I'm guessing the "rich" are looking to get in line, right behind the 49% that pay no taxes at all.

Of course it's federal taxes, not sales taxes and the like. We live that argument with the illegals. I wish I didn't have to pay any federal or state income tax. It would be so nice.

Muffintop1. It's 42% and 41.5 of that are low income people. You know, the lazy five year old bums that refuse to pay their share! How dare 45% of Americans be under 20 or over the retirement age! How dare they! Before we tax the wealthy, we need to go after those kids and grandma. After all I've been hearing that tax the rest line for ages now. GOP = tax your children.

There are 14 million illegal aliens in this country. Thats 4.5% of the population. Half of those aren't of working age and very few of those make a reasonable income. Sure, lets see if we can close the 1.5 trillion deficit on their backs. We'll need 100,000 for every illegal man, woman, and child each year. I'm sure they can swing it. Anyone before the top 2% who for some reason keep getting their taxes lowered at the expense of any semblance of a fair and competitive capitalist economy.

@ Jim ... actually I like to refer to that as Capitalistic Greed ... that gets them all ... fat cats, corporations ... all of 'em. They have ONLY one idol ... money. Oh, the Religious RIGHT say NOOOO , its GOD, but you look at those $ multimillion churches with the high steeples, and they ... are always asking for YOUR donations to keep them on the air. Yeah, its ALL about the money for these Republicans, and when you give it to them, they just want more, like cocaine ... there is no satisfying amount. Once they take all that they can get from the poor, they'll turn on each other ... GREED .... that's what its all about with Repubs.

Finally someone else who actually GETS IT!

Welll said brother. Now let's hope the rest of the lemmings wake up instead of continuing their sleep-walking off the cliff.

sfcret -

How do we get you to Washington?

Very well said.

The right-wing fallacious argumentation continues... There is always a lesser of two evils, and one evil does not cancel out the other. Disliking both Parties is an argument made by conservatives in lieu of actually making their own case FOR something. I could write a book on all the reasons why I support the Democrats more than Republicans (which includes Pelosi's proposal to reinstate PAYGO that you have never heard of because you only tune into FOX).

You can't just cut spending alone, or even freeze spending (taking into account population growth, inflation, etc.). And revenue is needed as well, starting with an end to loopholes. Why don't you understand the need for revenue? Why do conservatives support tax evasion? Just answer this.

The debt was caused by tax breaks, especially for the wealthy/corporations (dividends, capital gains, and estate taxes that only apply to the richest 2% on up), two wars not paid for (remember War Bonds?) AND not included in the budget, and Bush's prescription drug plan that elminated negotiation of costs and lined the pocket of Big Pharm at the tax payer's expense -- Along with deregulation of Wall Street and banking that caused the Great Recession.

Logically, we should look at these expenditures, tax credits, and policies first. THEN we can move on to other budget items. Are conservatives incapable of learning, is it a disorder of some kind?

truepatroit, You are really dense and must get all your information from MSNBC, Huffington Post and other liberal media. All the democrats can say is tax, tax, and tax. Raising taxes, even to the level of those under Clinton wouldn't even dent the deficit or pay for the current budget.

Giving government more money without any conditions is a waste of money. Get your head out of your butt and your hand out of the governments pocket and learn to take care of yourself. If you read my comment you will see that I would agree to tax increases but only when congress the the president can prove they are capable of governing. BTW, what's wrong with putting the talks on CSPAN or any other TV network that wants to cover it, that way the people can see what is being said and don't have to depend on political spin by both sides.

FACT 5: We have nearly 47% of the country paying ZERO Federal income taxes (i.e. they have no skin in the game). This needs to end. There can no longer be "free rides" for anyone. We're talking about 40-50 MILLION households! Every additional $20-$25/household collected is around $1 BILLION more incoming revenue!

FACT 5b: 45% of Americans are under 20 or over the retirement age. This needs to end! We must cull the poor lazy slobs so that we can get 100% of people paying taxes. How many of us are hiding tax dodging minors in our homes today? Unforgivable. I admit in my home we had 2 tax payers to 3 tax dodging leeches. 60%! This wont happen with my kids!

GOP = tax babies and great grandma. Whatever it takes. Cut their healthcare too.

I cant argue that there isn't waste and fraud to be wiped out as well, but practically speaking that's a longer-term issue. We just cant root it out fast enough to bolster the confidence of our creditors, the ratings agencies, etc.

For now I would treat these items as "additional benefit" for the future that we can use to accelerate cleaning up the mess.

The fact that we have to deal with now is that we simply cannot cut spending enough in the short-term without pulling the plug on keeping ourselves alive while we work through the mess we've ALL allowed to happen. There just is not other way than to raise revenue too, both from those already paying and also those who have been on a free ride.

There will always be time to cut taxes once we are on a solid footing (i.e. running surpluses so that we can pay down this huge debt and have some rainy day money getting set off to the side).

Unfortunately for now, we have to accept the fact that we are in no position to f**k around anymore. The bill has come due and ALL of us who helped run it up (or indirectly allowed it to be run up while we did nothing about it) have to dig a bit deeper to start paying it.

Personally I think that sucks, but practically I know of no other way to stablize the situation such that we can actually address the immediate threats to allowing OURSELVES to work out the long term way to prosperity for our nation.

And as for dumping the current President, I would love to see him and the 535 members of our legislative branch replaced by some people that:

a) are not bought-and-paid-for

b) have just an inkling of common sense

and c) do not have a problem with doing all government business in the public eye (e.g. CSPAN) so that we can actually keep an eye on who is behaving the way that we expect and who is not

Had Enuf, Gregor above is another example:

Unless he is a powerful businessman, how does he benefit in any way from no constraints on corporate power?

Gregor-3291968,

Do you really want to live in a world that is run by for-profit corporations?

I don't but the alternative seems to be Greece, or worse yet, California. In neither do the corporations run the show. Unions welfare states.

Not a great alternative.

Everyone should read up on the Gilded Age, the definition of plutocracy, and the GINI coefficient. In the meantime, for a little levity, another poster (Hughmac312) once posted this:

The original preamble to the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense,^{[note 1]} promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

Versus the new preamble to the Constitution:

We the Corporations of the United States, in Order to diminish the Unions, will appoint Justices to ensure profits and Tranquilized Citizens, provide for a Military Industrial Defense Industry to ensure more profits, Promote the Generals to Corporate Boards, to diminish the Welfare of our citizens, and secure the Blessings of a Liberal Amount of Republicans for ourselves and only our Posterity, we do ordain and usurp this Constitution of the United States of America.

1. No demonstrated connection between union collective bargaining & budget deficits. ND and MT don't have budget shortfalls.

2. We can't all stop by the boss's office to personally negotiate our pay & working conditions. Remember, it took three-quarters of a century to pass the 8-hour work week law.

3. The day corporations are mandated by their shareholders to look out for ordinary people, please let me know.

Above mine ~ to MuffinTop1.

Rudy. You are clearly just another part of the problem. WAKE UP. BOTH SIDES ARE SCREWING WITH US AND BY NAME CALLING AND BLAMING ALL YOU ARE DOING IS JOINING THEM ON THE INACTION BANDWAGON.

One side spends money that even our great grandchildren don't have. The other side refuses to allow taxes to pay for the current spending that we have no way to cut.

And lemmings like you pick a side and join in on the argument rather than holding the feet of both sides of politicans to the fire and making them find and ACT ON a middle ground that at least allows us to control our own future.

If the majority of our country keeps following your lead then we are truly screwed.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM - Stop adding the the rhetoric and start making them actually do something that we all may hate parts of, but at least we can all live with it and agree things are better than they were.

One evil does not cancel another evil. There is always a lesser of two evils. The side that spends money, and the side that refuses to end loopholes to raise revenue is the same Party--the Republicans (look up deficit spending by administration). Yes, let's have a "middle ground." The Dems are compromising on cuts in spending. Now hold the GOP/TP's feet to the fire and get them to compromise on revenue.

Opajack, talk about drinking the koolaid.

There was a time when the American dream was to work hard so that one could have a decent life and make the next generation better off than the current one. Since the 1960s we have moved so far over toward trying to take care of those "in need" that we've created a 25-headed giveaway monster that created a change in society where everyone expects to have everything they want given to them at someone else's expense.

I am a lifelong LIBERAL DEMOCRAT with all the right-to-choose, gays serving openly in the military, social safety net, etc. credentials I need and even I can see that both Bush 2 AND Obama have collectively done more damage to this country than could be imagined.

Bush 2 had no business going to Iraq, creating the new gestapo (homeland security/TSA), screwing around with medicare part D (blowing an even deeper hole in our pocketbook), etc. Obama is throwing around money and assets that we dont have on "not-so-shovel-ready jobs", transferring the ownership of GM and Chrysler from their rightful owners to the UAW, getting us tied up in Libya, etc.

When I say painful spending cuts, I am not focused on women and children or ANYONE in particular. Every one of us makes use of US government programs and services in some way that is extremely significant to us. When across-the-board cuts get made you can expect that EVERYONE is going to be complaining that their particular program/service which got cut should have been left alone.

As for "skin in the game", ALL OF OUR LIVES ARE IN THE GAME (not just theirs). You cant be part "in" and part "out" any more than a woman can be "part pregnant". No one should be getting a free ride. Everyone should be paying, albeit a much lower net amount for those of lesser means. The weathy must certainly pay more but the poor must pay SOMETHING too.

As for being the greatest economy in the world, perhaps that is true in absolute magnitude (since we can still find people willing to lend to us so we can satisfy our spending adiction) but in terms of production I would suggest you check to see which countries are the largest manufacturers in the world, which countries are the largest exporters in the world, etc. About the only thing we still manufacturie here in the US that anyone else in the world seems to want is CONSUMERS!

Our greatest problem is that educated people like you would rather argue left versus right instead of ending the argument and forcing our elected officials to act in public sight within a middle-ground to put the brakes on our fall and start to slowly improve things.

Ignore what I am saying and keep up your side of the war of words and demonizing the other side and what we will end up with is anarchy and violence in the streets. Mark my words, the end result of the path you are on is lawlessness and civil uprisings.

...to Had enough of our ...I agree. It is past which political party one is in 'favor' of, and to be bickering like children is a waste of our creativity and taking all of us away from solving. There is correctness in both view: I hate that my government is so carelessly throwing away very hard earned income of ALL of the United States Citizens; I also hate to give more when corporations can outsource, and give jobs to another nation; I also hate the idea of "Tax Reform" that holds our country hostage...sounds like 2nd graders...do it my way or I won't PLAY WITH YOU ANYMORE!! This is our POLITICIANS? (Supposedly the greatest position anyone in our country can achieve, is the FELLOW citizens electing that person to office to SERVE their country?) I also believe that unless we do a combination of 1. tax changes and increases; 2. Lock and caps on government spending authorization-freeze government spending. Due to the severity of our situation, government spending must be HIGHLY REGULATED BY THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES, authorization to cause our indebtedness in any way outside of this nations boundaries must be stopped...(meaning interest on our debts is being paid to OTHER COUNTRIES AND GOVERNMENTS); pick up 20 things in your house and see where each item is made...is even ONE of the 20 items made in the USA? Make the cuts, but to me...leave Medicare and Social Security alone for the next few years, until we see what shape we are in then. The generation that is nearing retirement has already put in 50-60-70 YEARS into our nation, and between 401k's and loss of 'equity" in their homes, and now possible Medicare cuts- I for one, can barely help my children. Ten dollars here, a tank of gas there. It used to be that grandparents spent lots of money on their children and grandchildren, which would have been good, except that we no linger manufacture it here. No. Do it now. Or I agree: the people aren't able to take more; lawlessness, anarchy, violence. And don't just sit around e-mailing each other. How about a date set to gather in Washington? If the gays in new York would join in, and the poor blacks and the poor whites and the unemployed laborers, and the unemployed with a BA, or a Masters degree, HOW ABOUT ALL OF US? And how about the rich, and the "well to do", and the Bikers Groups and the ... quit pointing fingers. Now is not the time. Return more of our "governing" to the individual states, but do it wisely, not to "even some score". And while I am on here, and not sleeping again: can anyone tell me which media I can read that is unbiased, or not bought off with "special interests? Man. Our country is in deep..... I see I started to ramble,,,sorry 'bout that...

Thank you Gloria. Now I know for a fact that there is at least ONE other person in our nation who understands that this political bickering and hate mongering is only accelerating our fall.

I keep saying it, and I will keep saying it for all to hear. IF THOSE WHO WE ELECTED WILL NOT DO WHAT THEY WERE ELECTED TO DO THEN THROW THEM ALL OUT AND PUT SOMEONE THERE WHO WILL.

And in terms of how much spending cuts and how much tax increase, there was a study done recently by some very reputable people (can't remember the name of the authors right now but I'll post it when I do) that basically demonstrated through historical examples that successful fiscal recoveries usually require a ratio of between 5:1 and 6:1 spending cuts to tax increases.

Do we need to cut spending - YES

Do the wealthy need to pay higher taxes - YES

Do those Americans currently paying zero in federal taxes need to pay something - YES

Will federal programs that all of us use and consider vital to our lives need to be reduced - YES

Will we all feel some pain - YES

If we do this will our nation pull out of this tailspin and start regaining its stature - YES, BUT SLOWLY AND ONLY IF WE FOLLOW UP THESE FIRST STEPS INTELLIGENTLY AND WITHOUT THE DEMONIZING AND BLAME GAME.

And if we as a nation would rather continue to war of words and inaction we are headed over the edge, never to return.

No, Wade. My history is not flawed. Did you not experience the internet bubble and bust? That bubble resulted in the recession of 2000 - that George inherited.

There are all kinds of things that created this CURRENT recession. I can name them for you later if you'd like.

None of which is factual Candice.

Who is to blame for the financial crisis and current recession?

-The education system - that fails to teach our people how to balance a check book, live within a budget, understand debt and know what questions to consider when taking on a mortgage or other major purchase.

- Home buyers - who didn't take it upon themselves to hire real estate attorneys, research the details and figure the math.

Real Estate Agents - who sold homes to people who couldn't afford them and to speculators who intended to flip the properties.

Speculators - with no money down and interest only loans, speculators had no skin in the game, mailed in keys to the property and walked away, leaving the banks with the devalued property and a bad loan. (At the peak of the financial crisis, 27% of the mortgages written since 2005 and in foreclosure in Arizona, California, Nevada and Florida, were for non-owner occupied properties.)

Mortgage Brokers - who arranged the financing, sometimes based on fraudulent applications. Who exercised no fiduciary responsibility in advising the buyers.

Banks - who provided mortgages without due diligence, then schlepped them off to securities firms, Fannie and Freddie and Investment banks.

Investment banks - who bundled the mortgages into unrecognizable securities and created derivatives so sophisticated, they themselves were unable to understand.

Congress - who in 1977created the Community Reinvestment Act that required banks to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back.

President Clinton (with a Republican Congress) - who in 1999 reversed Glass Stegall that protected depositers from additional risks associated with securities transactions, and allowed commercial banks and investment banks to entangle. And who expanded the Community Reinvestment Act.

Federal Reserve - who kept rates so low and induced the housing frenzy.

Ratings agencies - who turned out to be wrong.

Regulators - who overlooked off balance sheet securities, and neglected to scrutinize loans, and neglected to enforce existing underwriting rules.

The SEC - who tolerated excess leverage, didn't enforce the rules, and allowed naked shorts in the stock market, and credit swap markets.

Christopher Dodd - Chairman of the Banking Committee who claimed Fannie and Freddie were in good shape.

Barney Frank - Financial Services Committee, who in 2003, opposed reform to regulate housing finance and supervise FRE and FNM and also claimed the agencies were in good shape. And pursued legislation to enlarge the cap of Fannie and Freddie loans so they could take on jumbo and non-conforming loans - to make matters worse.

Congress - who looked the other way, lined their pockets with massive contributions, and delayed action when the financial crisis was clearly on its way.

President Bush - who, although he brought up the issue, warned of the danger and proposed Congress act a documented 17 times, didn't push hard enough, didn't make the message clear enough, and who also pushed the "ownership" society.

That's what caused the financial crisis that dropped us into recession.

This is why it's lasting so long:

- Mortgage modification programs forced by the government prolonged the bottom of the housing market. 75% of people who modified loans through the programs wound up losing their homes anyway after 6-9 months. The government programs were a band-aid that only prolonged the pain.

- The Federal Reserve - QE-1 and QE-2 artificially supported the bond and treasury markets, and held interest rates low. Again - if water can't seek it's level, it will just continue to swirl around.

- The Stimulus - a lot of money that was supposed to create jobs but didn't, only shored up some state's balance sheets (artificially) and allowed them to avoid melt down without the hassle of actual reform.

- The Democratically controlled congress and a non-business friendly President - enacted laws that put additional burdens on companies, especially small businesses (ie: health care reform, drilling moratorium, back door EPA regulation, 99 weeks of unemployment insurance).

- Political posturing - to idle the ratification process of three Free Trade Agreements.

- Employers - who figured out that they don't need a lot of people on the payroll to maintain high productivity, and shareholder profits).

- The American worker - who, through lack of education, career counseling, or misdirection find themselves without the skills to fill the jobs that are out there in higher tech manufacturing.

These are things that created and extended our current recession.

Bottom line Candice. Clinton left a budget Surplus which Bush gave away. Everything you posted is GOP spin. His ineptitude cannot be blamed on the Clintons. I don't believe you were lying in your last post, but you were parroting GOP lies and that was just as bad. The GOP drove the economy into a ditch and they are blocking all attempts to get it out of the ditch.

For the sake of discussion I would love to see Wade, or anyone else directly address the points Candice raised.

Your simple dismissal, as "GOP spin" really does not add anything to the discussion, other than tell me your mind is made up and closed.

Too bad.

Good morning, Wade. My post is not GOP spin. As you can see, I point out that the blame for the financial crisis and ensuing recession lies on many factors, groups and people - not just one political party or President. I am talking about the recession. You, I believe, just switched the topic to the deficit.

I try very hard not to spin, Wade. There's nothing more irritating to me than "talking points." The "drive in the ditch" analogy? Come on, Wade! Good grief! :0p

I did have a smidgen of hope we agreed on some ideas. Oh, well.

Muffintop - thanks for following my posts!

Candice and muffintop1 -- We challenge you to watch CNN, MSNBC, PBS, and Meet the Press only for an entire month. Cold turkey -- no FOX, no Micheal Savage or Rush Limbaugh, no Drudge/NewsMax/FreeRepublic, no right-wing Viral E-mails, and any other similar chicken crap. Then you might see how much your posts are filled with conservative talking points.

True Patriot,

I get all my liberal viewpoints right here on First Read, thank you.

I don't watch Fox (except occasionally during the day - never at night, which is very different. During the day there's usually someone from the left and the right spewing their opinions so you really do get both sides, right from the horse's mouth - and truthfully -- both sides are crazy). No Rush, no Hannity. Too extreme. Is Drudge on t.v.?

I read this MSNBC site, the Associated Press, Reuters, and IBD. I usually have Bloomberg on. I'll watch the local 10:00 news and occasionally TCM, if that's okay with you.

May I suggest you turn off CNN, MSNBC, PBS and Meet the Press. Take a break from ThinkProgress and the Huffington Post, too. Those sites will only get you all riled up. Try reading a book. Or just pay attention to the world around you. That's even a better idea.

I love Gregory.

So easy for you to insinuate I only watch Fox. So ignorant, but I understand - it seems that it is all that you have.

So that's done, what's next?

I am tired of explaining U.S. history to people who think they have a monopoly on the truth. So no Muffintop I am not going to rehash everything I have learned ad nausem to people who refuse to listen.

Interesting point.

My understanding is that the Tea Party's primary focus was tax reduction. Since that is the focus of all of government now that goal seems to have been accomplished.

I just hope Obama gets personally involved in the debt ceiling talks.

Just like your interesting rant about getting the rest of our budget under control by taxing every baby.