Simple:

1. adopt Germany's tax plan for goods exported;

2. Immediately dismiss the Boeing lawsuit.

You all really ought ot look at what Germany does. It is astounding in it's simplicity. And guess which countryis kicking ass exporting goods.

We might take a lesson from their educational system as well, but that also would be a hard sell in America.

Why are we even thinking about doing this while corporations are holding record amounts of cash that could easily be used for these initiatives. Business wants government out of the way? Then start doing your own darned innovation.

My nephew, who is working on a national science fellowship at Berkeley, tells me that many corporations have stopped doing their own R&D, depending instead on the government to do it through programs like his.

And why shouldn't they, when every time they whine, our bought-and-paid-for government capitulates?

Given the economic news of the week, this has an other-worldly feel to it.

While I'm certain that everyone would just love a manufacturing "renaissance" in the US...

I'd be happy if this Administration manages to post a 2% growth rate for the 2nd quarter ending this month.

Or any economic growth at all, really...

I would also support spanky's recommendation. But don't look for a common sense anwer from Obama! His nature would be to create a multi-leveled bureaucracy and maybe throw a Czar or two into the mix..... before you know it the government costs would exceed the tax revenue from the jobs created!

Ahh Am [you darned Spanky wrangler you], you know who was spending an ass load of $ to create a new facility and hire an ass load of new employees?

Yeah you do - Boeing.

And how did that work out for them?

Stupid.

Now, now, be gentle, Spanky. After all, according to what I read earlier, I'm only number 3 ... or worse.

Calling me stupid is merely heaping insult on to injury.

After today, we all should have learned. Be nice to me and I'll be nice to you. I promise. ;-)

Innovation and high-tech manufacturing are the investments we need to make, along with improving education (not necessarily done by throwing money at it) and infrastructure. If we want to improve trade deficits, improve job creation, and compete in the global economy, these are the things we need to do as a nation.

Now, we just need to get rid of the GOP/TP so we can get legislation passed, to get revenues needed, to do the things other countries have already been doing ahead of us. If China can afford to invest, why can't we? Republicans need to stop with the small thinking, the fear mongering, and the politics.

kirby in idaho "I'd like to see that every company that moves its jobs overseas not get any tax breaks for doing it."

Please explain how a company gets 'tax breaks' from moving their jobs overseas.

It sounds like a nice 'sound bite', but I doubt that it has any reality to it.

TruePatriot-445959 "Republicans need to stop with the small thinking, the fear mongering, and the politics."

And Democrats need to stop with the big spending, the fear mongering, and the politics'.

Obama has already spent well over a $Trillion on his 'big thinking', and we've seen no measurable benefits. Our children and grandchildren can't afford more social 'experiments'. Next is an ironic quote from Obama on the debt crisis.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of
leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own
bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from
foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.
Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally.
Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the
burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better."

SENATOR BARACK H. OBAMA, MARCH, 2006

He then voted AGAINST increasing the debt limit.

A good plan, it is. But, No Jo- if they make the stuff here, it's gonna cost more. What to do, what to do?

How's your little one doing? Well, I hope.

It is absolutley unacceptable that any military equipment be made by China. We don't let the Russians build our military items and we shouldn't let the Chicoms do it either.

You all know about the electronics issues that China is causing? They take all of our e waste [free- cause they are super nice].

They then melt it down, remove the circuits and chips and then epoxy it and re-label.

They then sell it back to the manufacturers. Guess what it was trash, it all sits out side and the melting is done by peasants out in the elements.

Nice, right?

Well, dbo, thank you for asking.

As to your point- it will not cost more. The.military contractors who supply these materials accept payments for U.S.A. Manufactured components, farm out the jobs to China, and pocket the difference.

One of them has just been indicted.

Seems to me that we use some of those many new government hires to do plant inspections, to ascertain things are being manufactured where they say they are being manufactured, and lock up the contract breakers.

The pharmaceutical companies do it. Heck, P&G does it for detergent.

10% of all of our military's needs in components should be manufactured here in America, with the ability to ramp up production to 100% if the supply lines are cut off or defective imports fail to fit the bill.

Paul - Years ago I worked in the aeropsace industry and we didn't buy any military equipment from any other country except thos that were military allies, such as Canada, UK and Italy. (gotta have those Baerettas). We should be doing the same now, but not at 10%, but at 80.

80% can come from our allies, but we have to retain the capability to make all of it ourselves if the need be. It should be a simple National Security requirement.

Gotta agree with comment 2 and all the replies. It only makes sense to keep military manufacturing "in House".

We smashed Germany and Japan with our manufacturing if we go to war with China we would have to go barefoot and naked because they make all our clothes and shoes, I'm not sure we could uniform a large force much less equip them, not to mention we won't have any US flags to fly because they make those too.

Problem is Forrest you have to define "good paying."

For instance and to thoroughly beat a nearly dead horse - I think the Boeing jobs in South Carolina are good paying jobs. IT seems like they are not well thought of by the NRLB, and by association the Obama administration.*

So given what you said above, should we promote companies like Boeing or make sure the never, ever leave union shop states? Can non union wages ever be considered "good" pay?

*With the actual execption of the Obama folks that are either on, or were on the Boeing Board of Directors.

I don't know what they are going to make in SC, but for instance the 11.20 an hour median wage in Texas, 23,300 gross for 52 weeks at 40 hours a week is not nearly enough, that much probably would not cover your gas for the lake toys for the year. I think people need almost twice that to do the responsible things you talk about like buying stock to fund their own retirement, pay for good health insurance, educate their kids, and live a middle class lifestyle. You have to pay them just enough to keep their dream alive, that in America if they do work hard they can someday live like Spanky.

Now, Spany- you think any of those thousand workers were planning on voting for Obama?

Really?

Well, any that were, won't now, that's for sure- but he was not going to carry South Carolina, anyway, so what the heck.

Now, the people who might buy military strength diapers- that's another story.

He thinks folks chuckle about it. Here is a hint, Obama- they are not laughing with you. They are laughing AT you. Well, at least the ones who have a laugh left in them.

Well Forrest I don't know the amount either, but the wages must be pretty good, as is the standard of living. THey make a whole bunch of great things down there - BMWS, Nissans, Tractors, etc.

Plus the cost of living is a lot less than in say Seattle, right?

And I will tell you something else - back in the day I earned $26k per year out of college [never mind that the bastards made me work 60-100 per weeks sometimes]. But the thing of it is, I had tons of cash. My expenses were low. In fact I was living large.

It all goes back to EXPENSES. I live in a very modest house. I fight to keep the expenses a low as possible, even with the toys.

But there also is a huge amount of personal responsibility Forrest - I paid my way thorough college and law school - no easy task. I could have stayed a drywall hanger. But no future there.

As I recall you have worked hard and bettered yourself. Problem is, there ain't one thing keep Boeing from saying - we are out. Moving the whole kit and kabootle to ..... It's way cheaper.

There is no answer for that, other than manufacturing is probabaly not a great carrer choice.

Ok it is Happy hour time. OUT.

NoJO - keep on keeping on. p.s. you are winning. Even Feisty knows. It's that power thing and all.

Just because they are making BMWs, does not mean they could ever own one, maybe I am foolish but I believe we could and must go back to a system where Americans who built a chevy could at least buy a chevy every 3 years or so, if we truly must just work for whatever the next desperate person on the planet will do it for then the American dream will be out of reach for most Americans. I think we can manufacture, and pay good wages and benefits and sustain it and provide all the high tech and office jobs as well that comes along with the manufacturing plant. But I agree with you the laws need tweaking otherwise it will always be cheaper to manufacture elsewhere and skirt US taxes because corporations are about max profit now and not a longer and in my mind more responsible view as an American citizen. I worked hard to improve my situation and push the one thing I know well as far and as in many directions as I could, I had to spend time and money on college while supporting a family, I bet my own money on my own ideas and filed patents, but I made enough money and benefits at my job to do that without putting my family at too great a risk. You said you worked your tail off for $26,000 a year when you were working your way through college, that is more than the median wage in Texas today. So how are they going to do what we did? Not to mention that my wife is a cancer survivor and if I did not have my health benefits I would have been bankrupted right then and there. 14 million people can't just go to school or live on 10 dollars an hour and even if they did, where are they going to work? They would have to charge that chevy volt 4000 times to get to work at the office building and law offices next to the manufacturing plant in China, right Spanky.

Sadly, the world economy genie is out of the bag. It ain't never going back.

No matter what it will always be cheaper to make stuff somewhere else. I wish it were not the case, but is is a fact.

I see no solution. It will not get better. I am pretty sure we are screwed. My kids will never have as good of a life as I have had. It's sad, but it is reality.

We are both "right." unfortunately that means nothing.

You pay those Volt assembly peope more money and it will never compete. Again I am somewhat hopeful that a partial solution is Germany's tax model for exports.

Other than that Forrest, I got nothing.

Have a good weekend. Damn I hope it's the 5 cent sale at BEVMO!

Well that is the thing that kills me right there I work with a lot of young people, it kills me that they probably will not have it as good as we did, not even the chance we had to make it a little better for ourselves, it is beyond sad. I still don't accept it as inevitable reality, I believe we could do better for these young people, we told them we would, we told them they could be almost anything they wanted to be if they went to school and worked hard. We did not tell them 11.20 an hour that's it,that's your future, and you better enjoy that while you can because your pay will be going down not up. We owe our children better than this, we were given better than this, shame on us if we can't do better than this. Maybe I am just being stupid and stubborn but I think we can do better. It is a damn shame that the Germans and Japanese build cars here because we are cheap labor for them. How do you win the war and then lose the peace? Well you have a nice weekend.

Forrest, they make BMW and Michelin to start with in SC along with Boeing in Charleston. They make a whole lot more than $11.20/hr also. They were just here in Ohio hiring for a stamping plant starting at $18.00/hr for any experience with $25/hr for journeyman machinists. The big difference is health insurance is pretty standard and not the bloated no deductible policies of the unions. The retirement is a 410K with company matching contributions instead of the fully funded pensions which aren't fully funded by the unions. The legacy costs up north have the union companies in more trouble than the hourly rates. Just go down to SC and look, these employees are doing very well. Why do you think these employees are throwing the unions out. They can't see why they should pay all those unions due when they are doing fine right now.

The 11.20 an hour is the median wage in Texas is where that number came from. I don't think $18.00 an hour is very good, I am not an auto worker but I made $19.50 an hour in 1990, and that was just the cash on the check that does not count any of my benefits. You tell me that is good pay? I made more than that per hour 20 years ago, and I guarantee you that a German building BMW's in Germany makes more than twice that, and would have a benefit package fit for a US congressman. You may think it is good money, I do not, you may think it is a great thing that people in SC are cheap labor for the Germans I don't. $18.00 dollars an hour is less than I made 20 years ago, it is nothing to brag about, and they certainly will not have to match much in their 401k, because they won't be able to put anything in to match. It is better than the average job in Texas, which pays $23,300 a year if you don't miss a single day's work. I made more than that in 1979 as a grocery clerk for Kroger, the more I think of it Ray, it is pitiful. Obviously I don't work him 40 hours a week but the 15 year old kid who cuts my lawn makes more than $18.00 an hour, a lot more. Before I built German cars in SC for $18.00 an hour I would buy a lawn mower and head north. Sounds to me like the south is bringing back slavery but it's not just for black people this time.

$25 per hour plus benefits is slavery?

Given the amount of labor hours that go into complex machinery there is no way products made here can compete.

That is 25 an hour for a journeyman machinist, who make a wage and fringe package twice that all over the north. But you can live on that, just not very well, $11.20 an hour as the average wage in Texas, yes it is slavery.

Not to mention that your statement is a joke because they are making BMW's here, with cheap American labor, that was the point. Who do think the rest of the world learned to build complex machinery from? Did you know a full size GM van comes off the assembly line (in the US) every 54 seconds, you seem to really have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to high speed automated production. The only thing we can't compete with is the taxes and tariffs they put on our products that we do not put on theirs. If a German wants to buy an American car there is over $7000 added to the price in taxes to get it into Germany. That is the only competition problem we have. If you want to brag about being a cheap source of labor for Japan and Germany go ahead I think it is pitiful, I lot of Americans fought and died in WW2 so we would not be working for them. Now Americans are working in a BMW plant that pays them half of what a they would make in a BMW plant in Germany. I don't know why they teach Spanish and French in high school, if you want to prepare your kids for their future they should switch to Japanese and German, then they will know how to ask the boss for a raise.

sounds like cheap american labor is all in how one references it to.

With regards to WWll, is it their fault that they learned from their mistakes and copied us? I will make an exception for the germans, they were good technically before WWll and during. 1st at ICBM's (V2). !st with a production jet fighter. To bad they were stupid on the socioeconomic front and politics.

I was of the opinion we fought in WW2 because Europe needed our help to fight Germany, which sought takeover, and Japan, because it attacked us.

I also recall that GM opened Saturn operations in the South, and that many of the production from all cars makers comes from the south.

My point is simply that is BMW were to suddenly double the worker's wages - so you would believe them to be "slave" wages, their cars will be priced out of the market.

But I have to tell you that you seem really angry. I have no idea why, and frankly I don't care. It's Saturday. I purposefully only come here on the weekends. I can see that the so called regulars who appear to be here 24/7 engage in your in your face type style.

No thanks.

They pay twice that to their workers in Germany and better benefits can you explain that? why doesn't that put them out of business. I said they use Americans as a cheap labor, and they do, they been in the car business with out us for a long time, they don't need our cheap labor to survive, but they are smart enough to take advantage of the willing. Modern car assembly lines produce about one car a minute, you would be surprised at how little doubling those wages actually affect the final price of a car. The people on those lines earn every penny of their pay, I have seen a few auto lines and watched how hard and fast they work. I think young people today work mighty hard but too many are not getting anywhere near a fair slice of the pie their labor produces. I'm a nightmare, I want your kids to make more money.

You are a "nightmare."

Direct it at Feisty, Groucho, or some other regular that is looking to FIGHT. That's not me.

I see a huge amount of unemployed/underemployed that who love to take one of the jobs you so casually refer to as slavery.

Perspective is an interesting and important thing. I have travelled the world. I have lived in a hut with no floor, water. We have it really good. The poorest here is doing so well, and is "rich" by a worldly standard. Too bad that gets lost in your zeal to fight.

I don't have a zeal to fight with you if that is what you mean I have no idea why you feel that way, if you sense that I want to fight the decline of the middle class in this country, and a bleaker future for the next genreation of Americans then you may have something there. You argue less for them, I argue more for them, I have no idea why you think I want to fight with you just because I disagree with you. However your argument that people should be happy for low wages in America because somewhere in the world you can live real well on $23,000 is really silly.

Forrest, Your facts about wages you have seen in your lifetime speaks to fundamental change that is going on in our country in a global economy. It get to the heart of the matter of the middle class and it shrinking ability to provide even a decent life for their family let alone better than their parents.

Thanks to you and the above posters for a thoughtful discussion. Lot's to ponder....

We can and should do better than this for our kids, and shame on us if we don't.

It just might have something to do with your choice of words. Like "Not to mention your statement is a joke."

That is a personal attack, pure and simple. I disagree with you, so my point of view is a joke. But despite your tone and your own words you come at me.

You either are so entrenched you don't realize it, don't care, or are dishonest. Seems like a personal problem.

Given the amount of labor hours that go into complex machinery there is no way products made here can compete.

I said that because those are your words above and we are talking about BMW's built right here in the US you can't have it both ways, you are contrdicting yourself is all I am saying.

Spin, "I meant, you said,..."

The record reflects what it reflects, you cannot run away. My hope is just maybe you will learn and next weekend you will be better. Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell, Time, unlike you is objective.

You sir are a beating.

I just hope you treat the people you deal with face to face better.

I suspect that you do. Or maybe you are really big and strong. I suspect not.

Can you tell us how a group of "men" who never served in combat and failed to keep us safe on 9/11, could be allowed to keep their jobs and then conduct two "failing" wars?

tsk tsk poor Paul; the whole 9-11 crew came here on Clinton's watch and were well into their plot to take down the WTC; OPENLY plotting and planning. it takes a special kind of ignorance to excuse the failing obama administration halfway through his 3 year; but rant like babies about what happened on "Bush's watch" regarding 9-11. the crew that knocked down the WTC on 9-11 was directly related to the crew that attempted to knock down the WTC in 1993. yet Clinton let in the crew that eventually did the deed and never even kniew they were here when he handed over the country to Bush. so that's what Bush "INHERITED".

Rob thousand of Americans were killed on American soil and Bush was the president, that is a fact that will never change he failed to protect America. We were attacked and he was president, then a couple of years later he said he did not think of Bin-Laden much, he had'nt heard much from him lately. Those are facts, you can't spin fact, you can ignore it, fight it, deny it and it is still a fact. Sometimes we have to chew the facts and swallow hard so we don't choke on them.

LMAO......classic hypocritical, pathetic, liberal nut job post...only shows how scared and desperate crazy liberals are that their spinning history with nonsense trying to pass it off as accurate and informative. Do you really believe your own crap?

There is no "liberal" spinning of 9/11/2001. Bush/Cheney were warned about al-qaeda during the transition from Clinton/Gore. Richard Clarke was ignored by Bush and Cheney, couldn't get them to attend or support a meeting of "principals" prior to 9/11. Monica Crowley's warnings to the FBI were quashed and suppressed. Alec Station at CIA wouldn't allow the FBI liason officers to inform headquarters that three of the al-qaeda "hijackers" had entered the country through LAX in January 2001. The PDB of August 6, 2001 made it clear to Bush that airplanes would be used as flying bombs against targets like WTC and/or the Pentagon. Bush told the "briefer", "I guess you guys at the CIA have now covered your own ass."

Never forget, 9/11/2001 was an inside job, brought to you by Cheney and Marvin Bush.

keep drinking the cool-aid

9/11 TRUTH isn't a political or partisan issue. The criminals were FAKE Republicans.