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Subscribe to RSSJust as it was received among both liberal and conservative members of Congress, President Obama’s down-the-middle decision to draw down the surge troops over the next year was met mostly with criticism on both the left and right sides of the blogosphere.
Liberal AMERICAblog’s Chris in Paris expressed disdain that the rest of the non-surge troops would remain in Afghanistan longer – until at least 2014.
“What part of ‘we can't afford wars around the world because they are killing the US economy’ is Washington missing? This is hardly the type action one would expect from a candidate who promised to get us out of these inherited wars and who then won a Nobel Peace prize.”
Chris in Paris’ sentiments seemed to be echoed in a post by conservative blogger Jeff Emanuel at Red State, who wrote, “Never mind the fact that, once Obama has accomplished the promised withdrawal of the first 10,000 troops from Afghanistan by the end of this year, there will still be more American service members deployed there than at any time during the Bush presidency.”
He added, however, that Obama seemed to be making a straw man argument when presenting his new, “more centered course” which falls somewhere between isolationism and overextension:
“This ‘more centered course,’ apparently, means more drone attacks on high-value targets around the world (‘When threatened, we must respond with force — but when that force can be targeted, we need not deploy large armies overseas’) and more ‘leading from behind’ while we, the UN, and NATO make fools of ourselves in months-long air campaigns that fail to unseat a single tinpot dictator (‘When innocents are being slaughtered and global security endangered, we don’t have to choose between standing idly by or acting on our own. Instead, we must rally international action, which we are doing in Libya’). Personally, I would like to have seen one of Obama’s straw men come to life and debate him over such a ridiculous statement.”
Conservative writer Michael Walsh at NRO thought Obama belittled the idea of “victory” by stressing the importance of domestic investment during a speech about a foreign war.
“The president concluded with stirring defense of nation-building — not in Iraq or Afghanistan, but here at home, with such phrases as ‘living within our means, ‘unleashing innovation,’ and ‘new and clean sources of energy.’
‘Let us finish the work at hand. Let us responsibly end these wars and reclaim the American Dream.’ Just after 9/11, is that really what we were fighting for?
Whatever happened to victory?”
Blogger Andrew Sullivan at The Atlantic seemed to be in the minority of voices in the blogosphere, asserting that Obama’s moderate approach was the right decision both politically and policy-wise.
“Obama's pragmatism - his refusal to embrace either the Full McCain Jacket or the impulse to just get the hell out of there ASAP - has helped him. His moderation on this has allowed the pro-surge forces to have had their moment and their say, has scattered al Qaeda, and has provoked conservative voices of skepticism to emerge in the GOP to reshape the national debate.
We intervened in a just cause, and, thanks to Obama's calibrated resilience and new focus on al Qaeda, and the brilliance and bravery of the armed forces, we have done our job. We can never care more about a country's future security than the people of that country care about it themselves.”
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I still think the best line of his speech was the one he borrowed from Jon Huntsman - "It's time we start nation building here at home"
White Collar Auto:
You've already been called out once today for laying this BS line on the people who come to First Read. President Obama borrowed nothing from Jon Huntsman.
Here is the quote from President Obama's speech at West Point on December 1, 2009: "But as we end the war in Iraq and transition to Afghan responsibility, we must rebuild our strength here at home. Our prosperity provides a foundation for our power. It pays for our military. It underwrites our diplomacy. It taps the potential of our people, and allows investment in new industry. And it will allow us to compete in this century as successfully as we did in the last. That's why our troop commitment in Afghanistan cannot be open-ended -- because the nation that I'm most interested in building is our own."
Those are the President's words and no amount of your BS is going to change that. For those interested in seeing just how dishonest White Collar Auto is, here is the link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-address-nation-way-forward-afghanistan-and-pakistan
I've called you out the second time. Stop your lying.
Wed Jun 22, 9:07 am ET
NEW YORK (AFP) – Former ambassador to China Jon Huntsman chided his ex-boss President Barack Obama on Wednesday for what he criticized as a too-tentative plan to draw down US forces in Afghanistan.
"I think that we can probably be more aggressive," Obama's former envoy to Beijing told NBC's "Today Show" one day after formally announcing his bid for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination.
"We've been at this for nine years and 50 days. We put Karzai in power, we've had democratic elections.... We've routed the Taliban, we've dismantled Al-Qaeda," the former Utah governor said hours before Obama was set to announce the size and pace of a US troop reduction in Afghanistan.
Sources have said that the president will announce a drawdown of 10,000 US troops by year's end and 30,000 by the end of 2012, but Huntsman said a much bigger pullout is called for -- in part to help fix a US economy groaning under a huge debt burden.
"What we need now is a healthy dose of nation-building here at home," Huntsman told NBC.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110622/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusmilitarypoliticshuntsman
As if that line -- or the idea -- was somehow original to Huntsman.
Many, many people have been saying that same thing for a long time. Whoever Huntsman borrowed it from, he failed to credit it, too.
Say, you know where they are doing a pretty good job building stuff - like businesses and jobs?
Texas. Hello Mr. Perry.
But do tell - it looks like White Collar just collared Mr. Walker.
Care to elaborate Mr. Walker? Is White Coller's post incorrect, or somehow misleading?
And really bro - who cares? Other than you of course.
Spanky:
Check the dates in the posts. Like I said yesterday, you got a head full of nothing.
Don't get me started, Spanky, on the many ways you're wrong about Rick Perry.
Starting with Perry's use of YOUR credit card (and mine) to pay off Texas's REAL deficit in the last bi-ennium -- to the tune of $6.6 billion -- while taking credit for his budget balancing skills and blaming President Obama for the deficit caused in part by Perry's own use of OUR borrowed money, and blaming the President again because the stimulus didn't create any jobs.
Rick Perry: The height of arrogant hypocrisy. Your hero, I guess.
Merely irrelevant. Huntsman wasn't the first one to say the same thing.
Sorry Dave - I'm going with AM on this one.
But yeah - I do have a head full of nothing.
Oh and AM - just think of all the fun we'll have debating the relative merits of Perry, Texas v. Obama and the economy. It'll be fun, right. Besides, as per Drive By, the man has great hair.
That counts for something, right? I know you women say it doesn't pretty hair is important.
Yeah, right, Spanky. That's why Rod Blagojevich is my hero.
Or were you talking about something other than hair on the head?
Get your mind out of the gutter.
The man has a lovely coif.
LoL Hair on the knuckles is a gutter topic? Who knew?
Well David, my confusion might be those comments from the President were made in 2009 and then he went out and got us involved in more nation building in the Mid-East. So was he lying then or is he lying now?
I know Anna Molly wouldn't like me, I'm bald and a conservative. Two strikes, eh?
White Collar Auto:
Cheap deflection. I put the link to his West Point speech up earlier. Her it is again. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-address-nation-way-forward-afghanistan-and-pakistan
Again! I am not happy with the speed of the draw down. However, if you will go to the link - which you won't - you will see the President is doing exactly what he said he would.
About your confusion. That's not confusion. That's the way you guys on the extreme right do business. Facts mean nothing.
If it's honest discussion you want, this is a great place. Genuine conservative-types and true Republicans, genuine liberal-types and true Democrats gather here. You may learn, your opinion on a subject may become firmer, or it may change, you may persuade someone to change their mind. But coming here with misinformation and disinformation is a guarantee that you will only preach to the choir, and an ignorant one at that.
Strange. Hard to say what it is. Looks kind of cryptic, somehow. Also looks to me like two people swapping opinions on a chat site. What do YOU make of it?
Wow, I just read today's comments. Let me make some important clarifications:
1. I was invited by some of First Read oldest posters -- people who have forged friendships on this site -- to speak at their gathering and attend a Cardinals baseball. Since I was flattered that what we do here has inspired this gathering, and since I will be in the area that weekend, I agreed to stop by.
2. NBC/MSNBC is in no way paying for the others in attendance. I'm paying for my one-night stay and my baseball ticket. That's it from NBC/MSNBC.
3. I agreed to sit down with these folks to answer their questions about First Read and what I do at NBC.
4. In no way, shape, or form does First Read want to silence liberal, conservative, or any other opinions on the site. We are in the business of free political speech here; that's what makes America great.
5. I would be happy to attend any future events sponsored by bloggers and readers -- of any political persuasion. Let me tell you: We're in the business of keeping all of our readers happy -- conservative, liberal, or independent.
6. In the past, liberal and conservative readers have contacted me via email or Facebook. I'm happy to friend any of you on Facebook, and I'm pretty easy to find.
7. I hope this answers your questions. If you have any others, please let me know.
Strange. Hard to say what it is. Looks kind of cryptic, somehow. Also looks to me like two people swapping opinions on a chat site. What do YOU make of it?
Speaking of strange, what's the deal with the double post?? One for each eye?
That's so Old Testament. Or wait, that was "an eye for an eye," wasn't it?
Anyway, we who are cyclopses are delighted at the two-for-one opportunity.
Good one, AM. Subtle, but right there in the ol' funny-bone zone.
Been reading the Urban Dictionary again, Buzz? ;-)
Would if I could. Can't read, though. Don't you follow these blogs on a reg'lar basis?
Speaking of reg'lars- where's my pal Smiff today, I wonder? OK, maybe she's busy with some other stuff.
Don't know nothin' 'bout Smiff. She doesn't report to me. Sounds like you really miss her. I'm sure she'd be pleased if she knew. Have you tried telling her?
BTW -- Sorry about my ignorance on the reading thing. I follow these blogs whenever I can, but apparently you don't, except by osmosis or something like that.
So far, you've fooled me completely.
Back on topic...
Well, the GOP candidates didn't like the speech, not to mention Fox. Big surprise.
And over on MSNBC, all the big name librul media types didn't like it either. Even Pelosi didn't like it. So much for the myth that the Dem/Libs are in "lock step" with the WH.
mpdodgson- someone said that if Obama has ticked of people on BOTH sides, he must be doing something right. Makes you wonder if that's not true, somehow. But I really do believe there is unhappiness on the EXTREME left and EXTREME right, and those people shouldn't be calling the shots on how the country is run for the rest of us anyway, right?
Well all right Drive By - calling out Big Eddy Schultz as extreme.
Odd, cause so many of his opinions on labor and other stuff seem to mirror what you and Anna Molly say here everyday.
Well, at least you recognize your place.
My place in anywhere near a Bud. (..weiser- not ..dy) But I have to admit- I'm not much on Big Eddie (the guy- no the viewpoints). Too bombastic some times (ok- lots of times). No, I'm more of a sissy-Sean kind of fan. Talks a lot, says nothing important.
But you knew that.
Now, boys, don't pull me into this dispute. I like Ed, except when I don't. And I'd like Sean, too, except that I never do.
There, now, see? Lots of common ground here. Let's all kiss and make up, shall we?
Sigh. I know it gets rough out here sometimes, but I don't mind being the go-between.
So now we are talking a Drive By, Anna Molly , Spanky sandwich?
I do love sandwiches.
Allright, you two- that's enough. Starting to sound like collusion. Wouldn't want anyone calling the cops on us....
Anna Molly
"There, now, see? Lots of common ground here. Let's all kiss and make up, shall we?
Sigh. I know it gets rough out here sometimes, but I don't mind being the go-between"
Can i join your group of peacemakers? we need it now.
but really, this chicken fight has been amusing to me. let's have a peaceful ending to all these. we all love our nation and that' what brought us all together on this blog even though we're all political junkies. i don't want to witness any "sectarian" war here. guy please, bury the hatchets and let's keep having our fun.
Great Idea Pius - I nominate/anoint/knight/be-crown/be-clown Anna Molly to bring peace and love to all.
So, hey, good luck with that. I'll extend the olive Branch to all - Feisty, Bev. Navy.. but not Drive By. No Way.
I mean, that's just ridiculous, right DBO?
spanky
great. but DBO is simply a silly but nice guy and AM's just lovely to have initiated this.
Spank's right, Pius. I AM a big silly, too, of course. But I get such a kick out of anything that's even remotely funny. My typing skills, my spelling skills, reading posts from para-legals- all of it.
And, if Anna's not careful, I'm going to toss ol' lady Smiff aside, and camp out under HER window all summer.
spanky, DBO
i told you spanky, DBO is silly hence, he spanked right.
I live to serve, Pius. Thanks for the kind words.
DBO -- You're always welcome. Be sure to bring your ... ukelele. ;-)
I guess President Obama got it right! President Obama is a great man!
Tommy has it right. Off to the secret treehouse for you, Tommy!
Tommy, if Obama was the last man on earth he MIGHT be great.
Beyond that, he's the absolute worst President in recent memory, and possibly in the history of this nation.
He's more worried about his "social justice" agenda and supporting the unions than he is the economy itself. All of this talk about the "middle class" from him and Democrats is nothing more than code words for unions.
25 MILLION Americans are either unemployed or working part time jobs because of the policies of Obama and people like him. A half Trillion dollars was STOLEN from MediCare by Obama and the Democrats. Rationing and outright denial of health care is part of the supposed "Affordable Health Care Act" that people like you support so vehemently.
After THREE Congressional addresses by him, where he told the entire nation that jobs was his "number one priority", we are STILL at 9.1% unemployment, 429,000 people filed for NEW unemployment claims just this past week, and Obama is more worried about a civil war in Libya and keeping the U.N. happy than he is THIS NATION.
Obama is nothing more than a lackey to a left wing "social" agenda that is taking this country into bankruptcy and oblivion.
Actually, Mr. Bush took care of that.
This was his 3 am call .....he rolled over and hit the snoozeeee button on the American people ...I guess he could care less about what the people want.. who pay his salary ! Good luck in the job search !
58% of the people said bring everyone home NOW ...this is why we are going broke ...these "BUMS" in Washington dont listen ......
No, I think the 3 am call was "Mr. President, we're pretty sure we've found Bin Laden in Pakistan. Do we go in and kill him or do we ask Pakistan first?"
If you upset the right and the left, you are right on target. The drawdown in stages will be recognized by any former serviceman as the right thing to do.
"Stages" just opens up who's left to attacks, which ANY "former serviceman" knows and many have gone through.
Either pull out and get it over with and leave that pit to those people, or WIN and destroy our enemies.
This soft shoeing because somebody over there whines, cries, and LIES about who we hit is a recipe for disaster and loss.
We can't even fire on the people we KNOW are Taliban, even when they are seen carrying weapons, unless they fire on us. Surely a way to "win" any war, isn't it?
10 Years
While I do respect those opinions who feel we should pull out of Afghanistan now, I'm more in line with Andrew Sullivan's opinion. I don't like to see America go into a country and then just leave because people are rightly so - war weary. Wasn't President Obama's position last night more or less the same approach as he spoke about when he was running for the presidency?
It seemed at the time to be a common sense approach to getting out of Afghanistan then, and it does now as well. Our military has done extraordinary work in Afghanistan since 9/11. Do they feel their mission is now complete? Their opinions matter.
And speaking of 9/11, I just spent 4 days in NYC taking my son & two granddaughters all over the city (walking for the most part). I left them thoroughly exhausted but I felt it important that they see and learn as much about the city as possible in the short time we were there. When we were headed over to the Statute of Liberty I pointed to the tip of Manhattan and explained that that was where the Dutch landed, and how they found the island to be pretty much inhabitable, with just hills and trees. They looked at the city at that point in awe at what had transpired over the centuries. I explained about the immigrants who went through Ellis Island as we walked through that magnificent building and then pointed out where the Lower East Side is and how they lived there once they got off the boat. And I told them - those were the people who built NYC.
Our last day leaving they were completely exhausted (they're not used to walking so much) but I asked them to get up early one more time as I wanted to take them down to the Ground Zero Museum before we headed home to Boston. I wanted this to be their last stop.
They were literally moved to tears while walking through the museum. We saw a few firemen as well in line, making their way into the museum. We then went outside and just stood there watching all the construction workers as they worked side by side on the new buildings going up where once stood the Twin Towers. They were so young. My family didn't want to leave the site.
New York City. An extraordinary city with extraordinary people. Our military in Afghanistan and Iraq. Extraordinary.
To all those immigrants, legal or otherwise, who were so nice, who were so friendly, who were so professional - whether they were taxi cab riders, hotel workers, restaurant workers, store owners - Latino and Middle Eastern. Unbelievably polite and helpful. Everyone asked where we were from and without fail, they all congratulated us immediately on the Bruins winning the Stanley Cup.
Even my son commented to me how wonderful we were treated by everyone and he said he hoped that if they weren't legal, that someday perhaps they would be. It was obvious that they loved NYC and America. He learned something.
First hand experience instead of right wing hate on the radio.
Thank you NYC. It was an unforgettable 4 days for my two granddaughters. And my grown up son.
Afghanistan. The beginning of the end.
Actually, Obama when he was running for President, said that we needed to put a surge into Afghanistan because that was the "important war" according to him.
So what he's doing now is the opposite of what he ran for President on (Gee what a surprise).
As for the "immigrants", how many of them were illegal and stealing a citizen's job, no matter how "nice" they are? Would you be so praising if an illegal stole YOUR job, but of course was so "nice" and "friendly"?
And did you explain to your granddaughters that Ellis Island was there so that immigrants could enter this nation LEGALLY? And so that we could keep the the drug dealers, rapists, murderers, and gangsters out?
Why don't you go listen to good old Keith some more? I heard he's got him a new show on the "Current" channel. You can get you some wonderfully "tolerant" liberal comments from him.
And exactly where is the "hate" that you speak of on "right wing hate" radio? Is someone that actually wants AMERICANS to have AMERICAN jobs a problem for you? Is someone that wants the government to get OUT of our lives instead of attempting to control them from birth (if you're actually allowed to be born) to death a problem for you?
Are you so enamored with "social justice" and "redistribution" and illegal alien "rights" that you just don't give a damn about what this nation was founded on?
Why don't you go listen to good old Keith some more? I heard he's got him a new show on the "Current" channel. You can get you some wonderfully "tolerant" liberal comments from him.
Actually, I intend to. Just as I intend to keep watching Lawrence O'Donnell & Rachel Maddow. We can never have enough progressive voices in our nation. I'm not one to favor one over the other.
All three are terrific and we are fortunate to have their voices.
Hate radio?
For starters - President Obama is not a United States citizen.
In other words, he's not one of us. Usually the white people saying that. The Republican white people.
We had a 2 hour train delay when leaving NYC. Finally we were told what gate our train was approaching. We all got in line. There was this one white middle aged woman (a New Yorker) who just decided to get in the front of the line despite people being there long before her. Many people told her she needed to to the back of the line. She wouldn't because she had been waiting "a long time for her train". We all were actually. She was a real b!tch. And just planted her feet in the front of the line, ahead of everyone else who had been there before her.
There were three very quiet black adults sitting close to us on the train. One woman was I would guess to be about 50, another man a few years older than her with a cane, and then an elderly woman. They had a lot of luggage and I heard the 50 year old woman tell one of the Amtrack officials that they were getting off in New Haven and they would need extra time because they had a lot of luggage and her companions were too disabled to help her get off the train quickly. The Amtrack officials told her she had better get her luggage off fast because he had to depart New Haven quick. He didn't offer them help or anything. This concerned her and she kept telling her two companions they had to get their stuff together long before they reached New Haven.
I went over to her and told her not to worry; that my son and I would help her with her luggage. She gave me a hug and said thank you - they had been traveling from Atlanta Georgia to go to CT to see her granddaughter graduate from college. Her granddaughter she told me finished in the top 6 of her class. Her train in Georgia had been delayed 8 hours. 8 hours. Her two companions were her older brother and 83 year old mother.
They had been traveling by train for 24 hours. 24 hours. Not a complaint. Just as nice and dignified as they could be possibly be, especially under the circumstances. They said it was worth it though, to see their granddaughter/niece/great granddaughter graduate from college.
Yet the woman from New York got in front of everyone because she had to wait a lousy two extra hours. Despicable.
The three traveling to CT for the graduation were met at the train station by the 50 year old's daughter. A lovely lovely woman who came over to the train to thank us for helping her family.
No complaining. Just thankful that her family arrived safely.
Something is terribly wrong in this country.
Every man for himself.
Jobs Available For Those Out Of Work. No one is taking your job any longer. Okay?
Think Progress:
Georgia Immigration Law Already Hurting Farmers | “It might almost be funny if it wasn’t so sad,” the Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Jay Bookman writes of the horrendous results of HB87, Georgia’s Arizona-like immigration law. Despite being signed just over a month ago, the law has already caused a mass exodus of undocumented laborers from the state, leaving Georgia farms at least 11,000 workers short of what is needed to operate. The result: millions of dollars’ worth of Georgia crops are rotting in the fields because there is no one there to harvest them. The state’s farmers are panicking, and Gov. Nathan Deal (R), who signed the law in May, is scrambling to keep more farmers from losing crops and in some cases their farms.
Pat,
Well I hope they stay away from California, we have way to many. Hey, maybe Gov. Deal can ship them to Georgia, you know, a one way ticket would do.
Georgia should call in the Texans, they work about as cheap as illegals.
This would be a nonissue if Bush had done his job in the first place!
And what exactly was "Bush's job" in the first place?
To invade Afghanistan after 9/11 and drive the Taliban out of the country? I believe he did that.
To protect the people of that nation so that they could at least attempt to form their OWN nation instead of being stepped on by thugs, Islamic extremists, and terrorists? I believe he did that.
To attack and kill the people that want to kill us for no other reason than we are citizens of the United States? I believe he did that.
Unfortunately, people like YOU started screaming "Vietnam" within 6 weeks of us arriving, claiming our soldiers were murderers, believing the stories of how "innocent" those people that just happened to have machine guns and IEDs were. And of course you toed the liberal line, and spent years attacking a President that actually ATTACKED the people that killed Americans instead of either kicking it down the road like Clinton did, throwing a few cruise missiles at dirt like Clinton did, or getting involved in someone else's civil war like Obama did.
This IS an issue because people like you think that handing out money and kissing our enemies butts will ensure piece in the world.
Amen to that Pat.
Wow! Another liberal with well thought out, intellectual, well researched debating points.
Thanks Job1, you've convinced me!!!
(Going to St. Louis next month Job1? Obviously Mr. Murray and all this "friends" at the "social gathering" will need you there to help them put together a cohesive plan to attack those that don't agree with their political agenda)
Way to promote the rightwing smear campaign, Cheryl
Oh come on Amy, sometime the deer shoot themselves.
For Spanky and Cherly:
Let me make some important clarifications:
1. I was invited by some of First Read oldest posters -- people who have forged friendships on this site -- to speak at their gathering and attend a Cardinals baseball. Since I was flattered that what we do here has inspired this gathering, and since I will be in the area that weekend, I agreed to stop by.
2. NBC/MSNBC is in no way paying for the others in attendance. I'm paying for my one-night stay and my baseball ticket. That's it from NBC/MSNBC.
3. I agreed to sit down with these folks to answer their questions about First Read and what I do at NBC.
4. In no way, shape, or form does First Read want to silence liberal, conservative, or any other opinions on the site. We are in the business of free political speech here; that's what makes America great.
5. I would be happy to attend any future events sponsored by bloggers and readers -- of any political persuasion. Let me tell you: We're in the business of keeping all of our readers happy -- conservative, liberal, or independent.
6. In the past, liberal and conservative readers have contacted me via email or Facebook. I'm happy to friend any of you on Facebook, and I'm pretty easy to find.
7. I hope this answers your questions. If you have any others, please let me know.
Thank you, Mark.
Out of curiosity, and, from these chatty posts, a turn back to the issue:
Have any of you researched or considered the response/reaction from OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL CURRENTLY IN AFGHANISTAN to "withdrawal/drawdown"?
Do YOU even care about their opinions, or do you just not want to miss some oportunity to dis our President?