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Subscribe to RSSWith his presidential announcement today, just who is Jon Huntsman?... Where is he on the issues?... Who are his supporters?... What’s his message?... But with such an unsettled field, why not?... Huntsman makes his bid official from Liberty State Park, NJ at 10:00 am ET, then heads to New Hampshire… Obama to deliver Afghanistan troop-withdrawal speech on Wednesday… Update on the debt-ceiling fight… McCain doesn’t back down from claim that illegal immigrants are causing the Arizona wildfires… And Chris Christie hits a new low in the Quinnipiac poll.
*** Who is Jon Huntsman? Only two months since stepping down from his post as ambassador to China, former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman today formally announces his presidential bid. And his candidacy raises this question: Just who is Huntsman? And we're not just talking about the folks who do NOT know him. Even among the folks who do, the same question is getting asked: Just who is he? Is he a real presidential contender, or is he more of an idea created in a focus group of swing voters? Right now, the evidence suggests more of the latter. Our recent national NBC/WSJ poll showed Huntsman dead last in a 10-candidate GOP trial heat. Where is he on the issues? Well, he backs the Ryan budget plan, but he also has called President Obama a “remarkable leader,” believes in climate change, and favors civil unions. (In fact, because of those civil-union views, a local Michigan GOP group disinvited him from headlining an event in early 2009.)
*** Who are his supporters? And he’s a man -- for now -- without a base or political home: He’s not the preferred candidates of Mormons and Utahans (that’s Romney); he’s launching his presidential bid from New Jersey; he’s basing his campaign headquarters in Florida; he owns a home in DC; and he just returned from Beijing. Indicative of this lack of a base or home is Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), who served previously served as Huntsman’s campaign manager and chief of staff, but who has said he’ll back Romney, though he hasn’t officially endorsed anyone yet. “Officially, I am keeping my powder dry at the moment,” Chaffetz said back in April. By the way, the Washington Post writes how both Huntsman and Romney are vying for Mormon fundraising cash.
*** What’s his message? So far, Huntsman has portrayed himself as the optimistic, non-confrontational Republican in the race. The question is if this is a message GOP primary voters want to hear this year. “I don't think you need to run down anyone's reputation to run for president,” Huntsman will say in his announcement speech, per excerpts. “Of course, we'll have our disagreements. I respect my fellow Republican candidates. And I respect the president. He and I have a difference of opinion on how to help the country we both love. But the question each of us wants the voters to answer is who will be the better president; not who's the better American.” More Huntsman: “We're not just choosing new leaders. We're choosing whether we are to become yesterday's story or tomorrow's. Everything is at stake. This is the hour when we choose our future.”
*** But why not? As it turns out, Huntsman’s biggest base seems to be the political media, which have showered attention on the Republican in his swings through New Hampshire and South Carolina. And here’s the reason why: Beyond Romney (who’s the potentially vulnerable front-runner), Pawlenty (who hasn’t caught fire and has had a BAD past week), Bachmann (who just got into the race), and Rick Perry (who’s 50-50% on getting in), who else is there? As Huntsman told the New York Times’ Matt Bai, “If the marketplace works, if something is there, if it’s viable, if there’s a marketplace there for what we’ve done and our basic approach, then let’s see where it goes.”
*** Huntsman hits the road: Huntsman makes his bid official from Liberty State Park at 10:00 am ET and then holds a rally in Exeter, NH at 1:20 pm. On Wednesday, he heads to Columbia, SC, where he tours a small business and then makes a speech. On Thursday, it’s on to Florida. And on Friday, he hits Nevada and Utah. It's an old-school style presidential announcement, including a press charter to bring along folks who are covering him at Liberty Island to New Hampshire.
*** About Jon Huntsman, the bullet-point bio: He has seven children, including one adopted from China and one from India… He’s the oldest of nine children… He dropped out of high school to play in a rock band called Wizard… He attended the University of Utah before heading on his Mormon mission to China, where he learned to speak Mandarin; upon his return, he transferred to UPenn and graduated from there… His father is the wealthiest man in Utah with a net worth of $1.9 billion… The father’s company, Huntsman Corporation, is a multinational petrochemical company that invented the Big Mac clamshell and the plastic egg carton… Huntsman was an intern for Sen. Orrin Hatch (who’s backing Romney), a staff assistant in the Reagan White House, worked Bush 41’s Commerce Department, and was a deputy trade ambassador to Bush 43… In 2008, Huntsman backed McCain, though his father endorsed Romney. (More bio here)
*** Obama to deliver Afghanistan troop-withdrawal speech on Wednesday: As we hinted at yesterday, President Obama will deliver his speech on Afghanistan this week -- on Wednesday. The Wall Street Journal: “President Barack Obama will announce on Wednesday how fast he plans to pull 33,000 surge troops out of Afghanistan, rolling back a troop build-up that was intended to halt the Taliban's momentum, administration officials said... Military officials have proposed removing 3,000 to 5,000 of the surge troops in July and as many as 5,000 more after the current fighting season ends this fall. Mr. Obama is under pressure from key allies in Congress, including Senate Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat, to withdraw as many as 15,000 of the surge troops by year's end.” Aides with knowledge of the decision caution folks from over-reading some of the reports circulating this morning, saying they’re surprised at how inaccurate some of them are.
*** Debt-ceiling update: As for the debt-ceiling talks, it appears that the “grand bargain” -- marrying a ceiling increase with big deficit reduction and entitlement reform -- isn’t going to happen as expected. Instead, the objective seems to be raising the debt ceiling with agreed-to cuts attached. Politically, that the grand bargain probably won’t happen has to make both Democrats and Republicans smile. For Democrats, that means the Medicare card is on the table, and that the issue will be decided by the 2012 election. And Republicans are glad their incumbents don't have to eat their words about taxes.
*** Come on baby, light my fire: Over the weekend, GOP Sen. John McCain stirred up controversy by saying that there’s “substantial evidence” that illegal immigrants are partly responsible for the wildfires in Arizona. In an interview on “TODAY,” McCain didn’t back down from that statement, though he said he heard the charge first from the U.S. Forest Service. “People who come across our border illegally … that these fires sometimes have been caused by this,” he said, adding: “The Forest Service is on record for saying exactly what I repeated.”
*** Christie hits low in poll: A new Quinnipiac poll shows New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie with an upside-down approval rating, 44%-47%, which is his lowest-ever score in the poll. Per Quinnipiac, “Women disapprove of the job Gov. Christie is doing 54 - 36 percent, while men approve 53 - 39 percent, a 17-point gender gap… Approval is 76 - 15 percent among Republicans and 47 - 44 percent among independent voters, while Democrats disapprove 75 - 17 percent.”
*** On the 2012 trail: Gingrich attends a screening of “A City Upon a Hill” in Savannah, GA… Pawlenty’s wife keynotes a luncheon in New Hampshire… And Santorum’s in Iowa.
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 53 days
Countdown to NV-2 special election: 84 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 140 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 230 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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Huntsman is a Presidential wanna be. I think he should have waited until 2016, right now he is going to have trouble separating himself from President Obama, especially if it comes out that he supported his positions in any way. I think the White House is preparing a list of agendas that he did support and will use them against him come 2012. I do not think he can win in 2012 and he should have waited until 2016
People, the GOP/TP is ramping up their historical course to take away many of our constitutional/civil rights, like our rights to vote, freedom of religion and speech, women’s rights, our freedom for open and fair elections free from outside interference, and a bevy of others many of us have written about. The GOP/TP envisions a “Class Based” Society for this Nation based on those that have and those that will never have. They are repealing Health Care for the elderly, sick, disabled and those of modest means. Oh, they are cloaking it in “Financial Conservatism” but at what cost? Millions and Millions of people will be left in the street to fend for themselves with no Health Care, No hope, No nothing.
This ideology is going to put many people in harms way and some will die because they cannot get the Health Care they need at a time they will need it the most. Some will die just because they cannot have access to preventive medicine which could starve off pending medical issues or those with pre-existing conditions that a treatable but will not have the appropriate access.
The attacks on Planned Parenthood and associated organizations to unfund them as well, will take away the only source of Preventive Medicine for millions of people like PAP Smears, Mammograms etc. Why, because they say their primary business is abortions and the government pays for them. This is a bold face lie and has been exposed before. The Hyde Amendment makes their argument illegal number one and less than 3% of all procedures done at Planned Parenthood involves abortions and they are privately funded – NOT BY THE GOVERNMENT.
This is a cold hearted attempt to destroy a “class” of people, we call them the “Middle Class” and they are the very people that built this great nation. This is how we are going to reward them??
We saw this very same ideology in Europe decades ago where they tried to destroy a race (“CLASS”) of people. The GOP/TP is doing the very same thing here. Show me the difference, as the net result will be the same.
This is crap. The bottom line is people are going to have trouble getting affordable and meaningful Health Care, period. My brother in law died from diabetes and he had the best care possible. How do you think those that could not get this level of care will fare? I was with him when the disease took one of his legs, and his kidneys failed. I was at his funeral and spoke for him.
This is just not right people and I do not care how you try and sugar coat it or how you try and hide the facts that denying qualified Health Care to those in need is morally wrong and it will kill. And for what, to give a select group of people more wealth and power? The top 10% already control about 80% of all the wealth and power in this country. How much more is enough? The whole New GOP/TP agenda is that Tax Cuts for the Millionaires and Billionaires while cutting Non Military Discretionary Spending is the only answer in addition to the repeal/privatization of Medicare, Medicaid and now Social Security again. They are wrong.
That road has been traveled before and it was paved with bodies, do we really want to go down it again????
Where are the Jobs and Economic Stimulus the New GOP/TP Party promised us in the last election? What about improving Education, instead they are cutting Educational Funding – How does that improve it?
Now we have a new ruling that Wal Mart cannot be sued for not paying equal wages for equal work why? Well because the Republican Fund Raisers pretending to be impartial Justices of the SCOTUS said Wal Mart is too big for a class action suit.
The current GOP/TP ideology is not an American ideology. They (the New GOP/TP) are anti gay, anti union, anti women, anti education, anti middle class and low income families, anti medical and scientific research, anti food and product safety, AND anti entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security – which programs that all working Americans pay something into to begin with and a bevy of others.
This is not the American way and people are starting to speak up. Over 70% (higher in some polls) of the American people do not want the repeal/privatization of Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security. They want Jobs and a stable economy. They want more education improvements, not educational cuts, they want their bridges, roads and their infrastructure repaired, they want high speed internet, and the list goes on. These are all things that the GOP/TP currently is turning a deaf ear towards.
It sure felt fine to hear the voice of our old friend Keith Olbermann last night!
I hadn’t realized how much I missed his wisdom & insight on all things progressive.
Reminds me of when you return home from a fabulous vacation & being able to lay your head of that favorite pillow of yours….
As much as I LOVE me some Larry O’, there NO ONE who tells it like it is MORE the Keith!
AUSTIN (The Borowitz Report) – Texas Governor Rick Perry announced his
bid for the Republican presidential nomination today, unveiling his official campaign slogan, “What Harm Could a Governor from Texas Do?”
In throwing his hat into the ring, Gov. Perry explained his earlier reluctance to run: “I promised the people of Texas I would destroy the state by 2012, and now it looks like we’re on track to do that.”
Gov. Perry said that he hoped to bring down the cost of the federal government the same way he reined in costs in Texas, “by making the state no longer habitable for human life as we know
it.”
He said that his plan to eliminate the states one by one was picking up steam, with support from Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker and Florida Governor Rick Scott.
As President, Gov. Perry promised, he would push a three-part agenda: “Eliminate education,
eliminate healthcare, and pray for Rapture.”
He said his one regret about his tenure as governor was that Texas never seceded from the United States, but added, “As President, I promise that the United States will secede from Planet
Earth.”
In related news, the GOP presidential candidates "are pretty much perfect," according to a new poll of voters named Barack Obama.
Sounds like we have a cowboy in the White House who thinks he is above the law and can do whatever he wants.
From MSDNC.com:
On Libya, President Obama evaded rules on legal disputes, scholars say
The White House bypassed the administration’s own written guidelines for resolving major legal disputes when it overruled the Justice Department’s advice that the president seek congressional approval for U.S. military operations in Libya, according to some legal scholars.
The disclosure over the weekend that President Barack Obama rejected the advice of senior Justice Department legal advisers — including Attorney General Eric Holder — has drawn sharp congressional criticism in recent days, ranging from House Speaker John Boehner to liberal Democrats such as Rep. Jerrold Nadler of New York.
It is also provoking debate among legal scholars, some of whom told NBC News that they were unaware of any recent precedent for the way the White House reached its legal conclusions about Libya. One top former legal adviser to Obama, Dawn Johnsen, called the accounts of the White House's handling of the matter "disturbing."
"There may be a precedent for this, but I can't think of one," said Robert Chesney, a University of Texas law professor who specializes in national security law. "This is not the way the process is supposed to work."
Feisty:
Keith was right on last night. He has not lost a step. While I did like Larry O I like Keith better. Besides I can see Larry O at 11:00 when his rerun comes on. So I guess I have the best of both worlds.
I’m looking forward to hearing about the debut of the planet’s biggest pompous a$$, Keith Olbermann’s, new show. Sounds like he had a couple of lefty liberal heavyweights on: Michael Moron (literally, grossly a heavyweight) and Daily Kos blogger Markos Moulitsas. I also read that he is planning to run his show longer than an hour to cut into Maddow’s show on MSDNC. I guess he didn’t learn to work and play well with others in kindergarten. What a dilemma for the regular FR lefty liberals. It’s either stiff Larry O. or DVR one or the other and add another hour of TV watching to the day. I’m hoping lefty liberals across the country all choose the DVR/watch both route because it’s one less hour in the day they will be trying to bankrupt the country with govt giveaway programs charged on the Chinese credit card.
Feisty:
I want to see Rick Perry defend his bogus claims that he made Texas into a utopia. He fudge the budget by using $6.4 Billion Dollars of stimulus money to pay down his debt then claim "Fiscal Prudent" - Hypocrite. His job numbers are also really no as hot as he claims either.
Rachael had a great piece on Perry Friday and said when you hear his bogus rhetoric think baloney. Watch it as she goes through a lot of his lies and these will come out when he runs.
I cannot wait to see him try and defend the truth against his misstatements. Another one bites the dust.
Good morning, Navy and Feisty. Great start to the day. The Republicans running for President are so far off base in their ideas and promises. It looks like they are sucking up to that far right base, that doesn't represent the views of the true American public.
Also, that Joe Albany, represents that nut factor mentioned.
Keith has not lost his edge, and I enjoyed being able to watch his show last night. No one like him anywhere!
Seems to me that Huntsman and Romney share the same problems. The right wing will not like their candidacy, they will be perceived as "too liberal". Mormonism will not help them with the evangelicals. Romney has damaged his "cred" by not signing the Susan B Anthony pledge. Since it is the "true believers" that show up for the various primaries, won't a candidate farther to the right have a better chance?
One of the biggest liars on the internet is the Think Progress group – and thus any one who chooses to use Think Progress as their point of reference are also liars, frauds, deceivers and low-lifes.
In research I discovered what a radical, socialist organization Think Progress is and there is no need to comment on its radical views and claims. It has NO CREDIBILITY! So as some like to say on here – Game Over. End of Story.
I also discovered something else yesterday in a late-in-the-day reply to a comment I made yesterday that US Navy Disabled – Retired is a female. No man responds using those words unless he was the one intentionally dropping the soap in the showers – nothing wrong with that LOL. It’s probably just a coincidence but USNDR sounded a lot like the other female-name posters on here.
http://biggovernment.com/bgarst/2010/05/14/soros-funded-think-progress-cries-astroturfing-wolf/
“Astroturf” is one of those common refrains used by the left when they want desperately for opposing views to be discredited. The George Soros funded mouthpiece non-ironically lobbied just that charge at a new, anti-net neutrality website called NoNetBrutality.com this week.
Think Progress claimed the website was part of a “secret plan to attack net neutrality.” CNET News showed otherwise:
On its Think Progress blog, the liberal advocacy group announced it had “obtained” a PowerPoint document “which reveals how the telecom industry is orchestrating the latest campaign against Net neutrality” through a pseudo-grassroots effort. The story was echoed on Slashdot, Boing Boing, and innumerable pro-regulation blogs.
There’s just one problem with Think Progress’ claim: It’s not, well, accurate.
In a case of truth being stranger than astroturf, it turns out that the PowerPoint document was prepared as a class project for a competition in Florida last month. It cost the six students a grand total of $173.95, including $18 for clip art.
And just how secret was this nefarious plot?
Not only was the PowerPoint document presentation no secret, but it was posted publicly on the competition’s blog, along with an audio recording of the event in Miami where the student contestants presented their ideas to the judges.
The online liberal echo-chamber then picked up the false story and ran with it.
Big government regulation supporters also descended upon the social media promotion efforts of NoNetBrutality with some brutality of their own. They declared everyone who doesn’t want government involved in regulating internet speech to be “corporate shills” and otherwise engaged in ad hominem attacks. One emailer to the website even suggested that it was surprising anyone supporting “such obvious transparent moral poverty” wouldn’t want to cut their throat any time they looked in the mirror. These guys really take their government regulation seriously.
Kristen McMurray, one of the six creators of the site, knows that all too well and wasn’t surprised by the pro-regulation tactics. “Labeling me a ‘corporate shill’ avoids any real debate on net neutrality,” she said, “so I’m not surprised it degenerated into name calling.” McMurray added, “Think Progress should have practiced good journalism and fact checked before reporting on our school project.” As the social media arm of an organization that claims to want to “shape the national debate,” Think Progress has a responsibility to ensure that it does so in an accurate and honest manner. It seems like good journalism, honest debate and big government advocacy just don’t go together.
The last sentence here goes to the core of the leftist, socialist radicals on this blog. They are liars like Think Progress whose so-called investigations are not based on facts and research. Proof above.
Think Progress is funded by this world’s worst anti-Christ George Soros – aka Spooky Dude. Everything idiots on here claim the Koch Brothers are, this piece of crap George Soros is trilpe in spades. It is a Shadow Party Project of this low life, another low-life John Podesta and the Center for American Progress.
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=8363
SUMMARY:
A Soros-Podesta (Shadow Party) Project
Think Progress is a “project” of the American Progress Action Fund (APAF), a “sister advocacy organization” of the left Center for American Progress (CAP) and CAP’s entities such as Campus Progress. It also draws freely on the resources and misrepresentations of the Soros-funded, Brock-edited Media Matters attack site.
Think Progress, an internet blog that “pushes back, daily,” by its own account against its conservative targets, and supports the Soros-Podesta American Progress Acition Fund agenda: to transform “progressive ideas into policy through rapid response communications, legislative action, grassroots organizing and advocacy, and partnerships with other progressive leaders throughout the country and the world.”
APAF describes itself as “a nonpartisan organization.” But in practice, Think Progress, like its parent organizations APAF and CAP, promotes an agenda indistinguishable from that of the left wing of the Democratic Party, with its fiercely anti-Republican, anti-conservative agendas. It focuses on the same issues and takes the same party line and talking points on every one of them. It relentlessly criticizes conservatives and Republicans, but it never criticizes liberal Democratic leaders.
“What We’re Fighting For,” says the Think Progress web site, are: “Social and Economic Justice,” “Healthy Communities,” “Global Leadership” and “A Secure America.”
In the lexicon of today’s left “progressives,” these terms can be translated as an agenda favoring socialist redistribution of private wealth and property, socialized medicine, and a world governed by trans-national bodies like the United Nations and no longer ruled by an arrogant, imperialist United States and American corporations.
“What We’re Fighting Against,” says the Think Progress web site, are: “Corrupt Establishment,” “Incompetent Establishment,” “Braindead Media,” and “Radical Right-Wing Agenda.”
In the lexicon of today’s left “progressives,” these terms can be applied to every Republican and conservative elected to power; capitalism and corporations and private property; media that has not yet become a propaganda vehicle for overthrowing Republicans, business and private property; and every person and idea to the right of the Democratic Party’s now-dominant left wing.
At Think Progress the above eight topics are the headings under which news stories, comments and blog entries get filed, each marked with color-coded corners so that liberals can see, without having to read or comprehend, which of these eight Procrustean categories it has been hacked to fit.
Think Progress’s category “Radical Right-Wing Agenda” includes an enemies list. Republican pollster and political analyst Frank Luntz, a Republican moderate is for example relentlessly attacked and demonized in a continuing sub-category called “LuntzWatch” that depicts him as a puppeteer controlling what Republican politicians do and say. This very Inside-the-Beltway, Inside Baseball assault leaves little doubt that it is of, by and for Mr. Luntz’s partisan counterparts on the Democratic Party side, and that it uses the term Right Wing as a smear word for all Republicans.
A typical “Radical Right-Wing Agenda” Think Progress blog from June 2005 is sardonically headlined: “Elton John Threatens Rick Santorum’s Marriage.”
To understand the Think Progress blog, one should keep in mind that the motto of its corporate parent American Progress Action Fund is “Progress Through Action,” not through thought. Its unspoken motto seems to be that an ounce of wit or sarcasm is worth of pound of actual facts or intelligence, today’s liberals and leftists often being too dense or hysterically obsessed to notice the difference.
Such cheap sleight of hand was evident, for example, in a May 2005 attack on conservative author and speaker David Horowitz. In a blog inspired by John Podesta, former Chief of Staff in President Bill Clinton’s White House (October 1998-January 2001) and current President of Think Progress’s elder corporate sister the Center for American Progress, two quotes by Horowitz were juxtaposed. In the first, Horowitz said he had “never compared actual liberals to Islamic terrorists.” In the second, Horowitz said that “the progressive left in the West was in a de facto alliance with the Islamic jihadists.”
Think Progress banned these juxtposed quotes with the headline “The Multiple Lies of David Horowitz.” But where were these purported lies? In an investigative analysis at FrontPageMagazine.com titled, “The Multiple Lies of John Podesta and Friends,” Horowitz asked: “Is Podesta suggesting that American liberals are actually leftists?” In the wake of Podesta’s counter-attack at his left propaganda blog Think Progress, one could also ask: “Is Podesta suggesting that American liberals have the same ideology and values as the ‘progressive left?’”
Horowitz is not lying here, nor has he contradicted himself. As a highly educated former Marxist intellectual-turned-conservative, Horowitz uses political and ideological labels with precision. An “actual liberal” is different from a progressive and different from a leftist. It is those like Podesta, eager to conceal their true political agenda behind the figleaf of vague words like “progressive” who have tried to blur the meaning of these distinctly defined words.
Podesta and Think Progress here have an advantage: half the people in America have an I.Q. of 100 or less, and this half tends to vote for Democrats. The Think Progress constituency is easy to fool precisely because it does little thinking and is easily misled by pseudo-intellectual card tricks and the Democratic Party’s mental equivalent of optical illusions.
The editors and main bloggers of Think Progress are Judd Legum and Christy Harvey.
Judd Legum is the Research Director at the Center for American Progress and co-editor of The Progress Report, a left APAF publication of news and commentary that Legum has said is emailed each weekday to 60,000 “progressive” readers.
In 2000 Legum graduated from Pomona College in Southern California. He then earned a Juris Doctorate from Georgetown University Law Center in Washington, D.C., where he worked as a research assistant for its professor John Podesta, current President of CAP. Legum’s articles have also appeared in The Nation, Salon.com, and The American Prospect Online. The Elton John-Rick Santorum item above was written by Legum.
Christy Harvey is Director of Strategic Communications at the Center for American Progress and co-editor of The Progress Report. She is a regular guest on liberal Air America Radio’s The Al Franken Show. Her writings have appeared in the left magazines In These Times and The American Prospect Online.
Prior to being hired by CAP, she worked for five years as research director for the Wall Street Journal’s Executive Editor Al Hunt, husband of Cable New Network (CNN) anchor Judy Woodruff. The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page is neo-conservative, but one scholarly study of media bias concluded that under Al Hunt’s editorship the news pages of the Wall Street Journal slanted farther to the left than those of any other major American newspaper, leaning farther left than The New York Times. At the Journal Harvey “also wrote for its American Opinion quarterly section and for a daily column that appeared during the 2000 election cycle.”
Harvey is a graduate of Washington and Lee University.
How far to the left are the views of Judd Legum and Christy Harvey? Although CAP claims to respect American soldiers, Legum and Harvey co-authored a January 2005 article with Jonathan Baskin titled “The Death Squad Option” that suggested American troops might be acting as “death squads” wantonly killing or kidnapping suspect Iraqis.
“Remember El Salvador?” the authors asked. They cited a 1993 United Nations-sponsored “truth commission” report claiming that up to “’90 percent of the atrocities in the conflict’ were committed by the U.S.-sponsored army and its surrogates, ‘with the [Fidel Castro-backed Communist] rebels responsible for 5 percent and the remaining 5 percent undetermined’….the vast majority of ‘atrocities in El Salvador’s civil war were committed by [U.S. President Ronald] Reagan-assisted death squads.’”
They referenced the killing of hundreds of civilians in the tiny Salvadoran village El Mozote, a controversial atrocity made famous by leftist author Mark Danner of The New Yorker Magazine, whose 1994 book on the subject has been used worldwide as a tool of Marxist anti-American propaganda.
“Faced with an intractable insurgency in Iraq,” wrote Legum, Harvey and Baskin, “the Pentagon is returning to its bad old ways.”
This is a falsehood and a blood libel against America’s courageous armed forces risking their lives to liberate tens of millions of people in Iraq, but it serves to reveal what the camouflaged ideology behind Think Progress and the George Soros-funded Center for American Progress and American Progress Action Fund really is.
Soros himself said that he was spending tens of millions of dollars to achieve “regime change” in the United States. He aimed to do this, said Soros, because President George W. Bush made the United States “too strong” in the world, which would be safer with a Democrat President who would weaken the U.S. to a level of power and influence more like that of Germany or France. This is the billionaire whose money funds and shapes Think Progress.
In a September 2004 article in The Nation titled “Vote for Bush or Die,” Legum and CAP Fellow David Sirota accused President George W. Bush of waging a re-election campaign based on fear of everything from imported poisoned Canadian drugs to terrorism.
Sirota, who also writes for Think Progress, worked for two years as chief spokesman for Democrats on the U.S. House Appropriations Committee. Prior to that he was spokesman for independent Vermont Congressman Bernie Sanders, a card-carrying member of Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), the main American branch of the Socialist International, and the founder of the Progressive Caucus in the House of Representatives.
[In 2005 the head of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and former Vermont Governor Howard Dean endorsed avowed socialist Sanders as his candidate in 2006 to replace retiring turncoat former Republican Vermont U.S. Senator Jim Jeffords.]
Think Progress might better be called a blog that “pushes backwards, daily” as a propaganda vehicle for a radical ideology that is obsolete and reactionary: ever-bigger, more intrusive government and its inevitable correlate, ever-diminishing freedom. Some call this discredited ideology socialism or “social justice,” others neo-feudalism, but Think Progress deceitfully calls it being “progressive.”
Here’s more proof that Think Progress is a discredit to honest citizens:
http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2011/04/22/busted-soros-funded-think-progress-caught-pushing-bogus-backlash-story
The Soros-funded website even added a famous Norman Rockwell image on their post to make it look like there was an American grassroots revolution brewing.
Not So.
Notice in today’s title they claim Republicans are facing “more backlash” at town hall events. By “more backlash” they are talking about an event earlier in the week when Rep. Paul Baretta (R-PA) was harassed during a town hall meeting. What they don’t tell you is that the heckler was the Carbon County Democrats for Change leader.
At another town hall event in Milton, Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan was booed by a small room of leftists who wanted to “tax the rich.” One of the upset constituents said he was a lifelong conservative who wants to tax the rich, expand government and redistribute wealth. Yeah, right.
Today, Think Progress insists its a national trend. One town hall event they reported on was Rep. Robert Dold‘s event in Illinois. Think Progress insisted there was a horrible backlash against the Illinois Republican for voting on the Ryan plan to cut the national debt. That isn’t what Highland Park Patch reported. The Patch reported that it was a very respectful meeting that ended well.
After the meeting, Hartenstein said he was pleased with the dialogue. He said he understands the need for Democrats and Republicans to work together, and explained that is why he pushed Dold to give specific positions and hear the views of the people in the room.
“In the end, I wanted to prompt him to start to be open to other proposals,” Hartenstein said. “She’s (Loos) a perfect example. People are out of work and need jobs,” he added, echoing Dold’s call for economic stimulus and job creation.
So, once again Think Progress was caught fabricating the news.
Sorry, Think Progress, the only grassroots groundswell right now is against more government spending and debt. But, don’t let the facts get in the way of your dishonest reporting.
Good Morning Navy & Job1:
Here's another fascinating FACT about Guvner Hairspray:
What a trail blazer this guy is! LOL
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
You wrote:
This is a cold hearted attempt to destroy a “class” of people, we call them the “Middle Class” and they are the very people that built this great nation. This is how we are going to reward them??
We saw this very same ideology in Europe decades ago where they tried to destroy a race (“CLASS”) of people. The GOP/TP is doing the very same thing here. Show me the difference, as the net result will be the same.
That road has been traveled before and it was paved with bodies, do we really want to go down it again????
You did do it. You just compared the Republican party to the Nazi's and said they were doing the same thing. Are they going to set up concentration camps? Death Panels? Only for Jews or for Muslims too. Are they making a list and checking it twice? Need to find out who's naughty, that would be Democrats of course.
You're way over the top on this. Republicans are now Nazi's because they don't agree with you. Their agenda is the same as the Nazis cause they want to reform Medicare and you don't agree with their plan.
BTW, this" keyboard thug just crawled out from under the compost heap" and is going to be here every day.
Watcha gonna do when they come for you, bad boys, bad boys.
George Soros aka Spooky Dude is trying to control the lamestream media and the mindless trolls who hang on their every word. He is trying to orchestrate the fall of America and should be exposed.
http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2011/05/12/exposed-spooky-dude-george-soros-has-ties-to-over-30-major-new-organizations/
Exposed: Spooky Dude George Soros has ties to OVER 30 major new organizations
Those evil Koch brothers! All those ties to those right wing conspiracy networks! How dare they! Oh wait, This isn’t the new progressive liberal / lame stream media boogeymen. It’s “spooky dude” George Soros. According to a revealing article written by Dan Gainor, Soros has ties to more than 30 lame stream news outlets which include the New York Times, Washington Post, the Associated Press, NBC and ABC. This could explain the bogus AP poll released the other day that mysteriously had Obama at a 60% approval rating and a 50% approval rating on the economy. This information is part of an upcoming report by the Media Research Centers Business & Media Institute which has been looking into George Soros and his influence on the media.
You’ve undoubtedly heard about some of the prominent “journalists” like ABC’s Christiane Amanpour and former Washington Post editor and now Vice President Len Downie who apparently serve on boards of operations that take Soros money. Ironically, the Society of Professional Journalists’ ethical code states: “avoid all conflicts real or perceived.”
There’s also a 14-person Journalism Advisory Board mentioned in Gainor’s article. It’s stacked with CNN’s David Gergen and representatives from top newspapers. It even includes a former publisher of The Wall Street Journal and the editor-in-chief of Simon & Schuster. Several are working journalists, including. You might have heard of Jill Abramson. She’s the managing editor of The New York Times. Or Kerry Smith, who is senior vice president for editorial “quality” of ABC News. Haven’t heard of them? How about editor of the editorial page of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Cynthia Tucker.
Ben-636050
Here’s more proof that Think Progress is a discredit to honest citizens:
Oh, ben, ben
I think you're wasting your keystrokes, we only care about the filthy Koch Brothers polluting minds, Justice Thomas, and the earth.
Whatever Soros money the left gets its not to destroy democracy or the planet.
USNDVR - Your "cut and paste" essay makes a "presidential wannabe" sound like a bad thing. What do you think your former community activist amd law professor with two years experience as a Senator has done for our economy? And there may be a "message" in his 65% approval rating on 1/20/09 and 47% approval rating today, it is the same message that the Democratic Party received during the great "shellacking" (worst in 60+ years) on 11/2/10 and just 7 very short months ago.
It was despicable. It was an insult to all Americans. It bordered on a treasonous act. It exposes just what a left-wing, radical, socialist organization NBC is. It is full of low-life, scum sucking pigs who half heartedly apologized for leaving the words – UNDER GOD – out of the Pledge of Allegiance in the opening of the U.S. Open Championship – and the U.S. stands for the United States. This is our country. This is our Pledge of Allegiance. No one has a right to arbitrarily change it. The USGA should take the contract away from NBC.
I thought big ears was a brilliant Constitutional lawyer? I thought he had vast knowledge of the U.S. Constitution? The man is a liar. A deceiver. A fraud. He is One Big Ass Mistake America.
The White House has made its case for military action in Libya, saying current involvement there does not rise to the level of hostilities described in the War Powers Resolution. But whether President Obama considers the act constitutional is not something the administration is willing to answer.
"[W]e are not making a judgment on the constitutionality of the War Powers Act with this reasoning: We are simply stating that the War Powers Resolution does not need to be involved because the hostilities clause of that resolution," Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters, "is not met."
The constitutionality of the War Powers Resolution has been in question since it was first passed in 1973. The charge that it overstepped the authority of the commander-in-chief was the very reason President Richard Nixon vetoed it (before a two-thirds majority in the House and Senate overturned the veto).
In fact, every president since Nixon has taken the position that the War Powers Resolution is unconstitutional. But those same administrations have also abided by it, working within the act's framework to avoid a battle with congressional leaders.
Mr. Obama has chosen not to follow in the footsteps of his predecessors. Instead, he is choosing to take another route and say it doesn't even apply to the mission in Libya. The reasoning behind that decision is up for debate.
And so is the legal argument over whether or not this conflict is covered by the War Powers.
"For me to get up and tell you that by some miracle, every lawyer in this administration was in agreement on that issue, you wouldn't believe me, because it's simply been too contentious for now 38 years," Carney said. "[T]here was not a unanimous agreement on it."
Ok, it's Obama's decision to make, and he says he doesn't have to weigh in on the Constitutional arguments surrounding the War Powers Resolution. But should the president give the people his opinion anyway?
Carney wouldn't bite when he was pressed by a reporter.
"You can ask him that when, you know, the next time we have a press conference."
Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/06/20/white-house-wont-say-if-war-powers-resolution-constitutional#ixzz1Putxy4eu
Huntsman is just another politician who has been seduced by the desire for power into abandoning his principles and taking positions directly contrary to those he espoused when he spoke with candor.
In short, he's become your garden-variety flip-flopper. Move over, Mitt.
The funny thing about it is that the politicians who do what Huntsman and Romney have done, in addition to forfeiting their principles, actually forfeit any real power in order to please their masters, whether it be Tea Party, Koch brothers, or otherwise. Ultimately, they become Faustian-style puppets having sold their souls to the Devil of special interest money.
In the end, these are all candidates that any reasonable person should be loathe to trust.
Don't like that? Too bad. Because Huntsman is exactly what our current system of campaign finance, bolstered by the Citizens United decision has wrought.
Why - isn't he the Teapublican who worked for President Obama? lol
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Maybe Huntsman really is thinking about 2016 more than 2012. It's not too uncommon for politicians to run for a nomination they know they can't win just to build a political organization and public name recognition for the next election. Perhaps he thinks all the teabaggery will burn itself out by 2016. If that is what he thinks, he may be right. Epidemics of public madness don't last forever.
You do realize, of course, that the original author of the Pledge must be one of those low-life scum you're talking about because those words -- "under God" -- were not even IN the Pledge until the 1950's, when Congress, during the height of the McCarthy era, "arbitrarily" decided to change it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
A little knowledge of history is always helpful for taking reasonable positions.
But then, that might be expecting too much.
Anna Molly-
"...just another politician who has been seduced by the desire for power into abandoning his principles and taking positions directly contrary to those he espoused when he spoke with candor."
For a minute there... I thought I was at Firedoglake reading a comment about President Obama.
Good morning newday
Seems to me that Huntsman and Romney share the same problems. The right wing will not like their candidacy, they will be perceived as "too liberal". Mormonism will not help them with the evangelicals. Romney has damaged his "cred" by not signing the Susan B Anthony pledge. Since it is the "true believers" that show up for the various primaries, won't a candidate farther to the right have a better chance
This so true newday. In today's batsh!t crazy republican/ bagger agenda Ronald Reagan would be attacked by the right wing nutsosphere
Besides, a new Gallup poll suggests that about a fifth of Republicans would have a problem supporting a Mormon candidate for president.
LoL Did you have some idea that I was going to argue with you?
Anna Molly: it provides no END of entertainment to me that pompous right wingers do not know that the Pledge was written by Socialist, Francis Bellamy, as an advertising jingle for the magazine that he was associated with The Youth Companion. Since they are so enamoured of the Pledge, doesn't that make them Socialists? The Founders certainly never envisioned a loyalty oath.
Good Morning Beverly!
Houston, I think you've got it right - Huntsman is really interested in 2016 (when a GOP candidate actually has a chance) but is 'paying his dues' this go-round. Someone said it recently (maybe on Morning Joe?) that the GOP picks its candidates by a 'next-in-line' mentality. It was true for McCain, likely true for Romney, and will be true for Huntsman.
AM I really admire that open mind you have. Why not a at least listen to what the man has to say. Maybe just maybe he has some good ideas about job creation.
Jon Huntsman is one of the country's foremost foes of women's right to choose. As Govenor of Utah, he signed an anti-choice bill that made is a felony to obtain a late-term abortion, and another one that requires doctors to describe to patients the pain an abortion might inflict on a fetus. Huntsman wants to ban abortion completely including for rape, incest and when the life of the mother is threatened by the pregnancy. Huntsman is strong on business taxes--he's against taxing business at all; and he loves his guns. Huntsman seems determined to avoid association with Utah. If you look at Huntsman and his current "changing of his mind" on issues, he is a clone of Mitt Romney in more ways than one and he is just as slippery.
AM-
Not for a minute.
Anyway...thanks for the high fat one right over the middle of the plate.
Because I've listened to him. Before and after. As a result, I wouldn't trust him to the corner with a letter to post, much less to come up with ideas to save the economy or lead on foreign policy. He's already in the Tea Party tank. More creative tax cuts are NOT going to do it. How one trusts someone so quick to change his positions on everything important, just to feed his ambition, is something I cannot understand.
Sorry if that disappoints you. But an "open mind" (and thank you for that) also translates into open ears.
I live to serve. But you really should see my inside slider.
@Molly -- the key word you leave out of the argument is --
arbitrarily.
I know the Pledge of Allegiance was changed but it was changed by the American People not one scum sucking pseudo news organization like NBC.
Maybe you ought to use a little common sense or maybe that would be asking too much.
FR: Who is Jon Huntsman?
He is another politician who wants to join the jamboree of the other clowns of baggers and faux republicans for a free ride on their merry-go-round to bash President OBAMA!
Step right up Huntsman it's your turn!!!
Jon Huntsman is a fine man with a huge legacy of helping others. His intellect is unmatched in this field, including Obama.
I've never seen such partisan hatred on a thread before, most of you are beyond pathetic. I supported Hillary in 2008, but ended up voting for Obama because of Palin. Thanks McCain, you loser, for letting loose the idiot of this generation. And, McCain your WRONG about EVERYTHING.
Obama will NEVER get my vote again. He is a con man and a liar. He is W light, end of story.
I will vote for Romney or Huntsman if I can. And all of you liberals who think Palin or Bachman will be on the ticket, keep dreaming, and listening to the pathetic Olberman, Matthews or Maddow. Your the only fools who believe they have a chance, us independants, know that neither one could be elected dog catcher.
" It is full of low-life, scum sucking pigs who half heartedly apologized for leaving the words – UNDER GOD – out of the Pledge of Allegiance in the opening of the U.S. Open Championship..."
I might be inclided to agree with you. Tell me, which God did they remove from the Pledge? (There are many, all with their own followers, you know. )
Ben 63 - Where did this righty wacko come from? Is he getting paid per the blog? Maybe the longer the blog the more scratch he gets.
@Jody -- In my opinion Jon Huntsman's stance on pro-life and anti-abortion is something I stand up and applaud and I support. Abortion is the killing of innocent lives. Period. End of Story. He's not avoiding Utah at all. He is targeting his efforts where the major primaries are being held. That's the key to winning the Republican nomination, but you already know that. I hope Huntsman is all you say he is and if you look a majority of Americans do likewise.
It's good to see that everyone's delighted at Keith Olbermann's return.
I wonder if MSNBC is as sanguine as the crowd here at the prospect of KO poaching viewers in the heart of their prime time 8:00PM ET slot.
I have my doubts.
The overnight ratings should be fun, eh gang?
@DBO -- In my life and belief there is only one true God. He is the One who gave the life of His Son to save us from our sins.
@Calif -- I am just following the lead of one of this blogs posters. That's all.
@MB -- Olbermann has every right to be on the air but I am not delighted so everyone is not delighted.
Is that the same thing you said when "the American People" (i.e., Congress) adopted Health Care Reform last year? Why do I suspect it's not?
That example alone ought to convince YOU that Congress doesn't always act in ways that are reasonable, or even that follow the will of the American people. If that example wasn't enough, then the House's bull-headed adoption of the highly unpopular Ryan budget plan, from which they have since been forced to retreat, like cockroaches from a burning building, should be enough to illustrate the point.
I'm sorry, from what I've seen of Huntsman, he strikes me as a bit of a goofball.
Ben -- nice job of exposing ThinkProgress for the biased slugs they are, thanks for taking the time to do that.
The point I would make about the all too frequent cut and paste posts from ThinkProgress is this: the leftists around here fall all over themselves crowing about how they can think for themselves, while the doltish right just spouts what otheres tell them. Yet when we see certain leftists posters CONSISTENTLY cut and paste extensive material from their favorite biased sites (and we all know who they are), the clear message they send to the world is they cannot craft their own arguments but must rely instead on the work of others. That's really pathetic, and unquestionably exposes them as lacking the capacity to do their own thinking. If you take ThinkProgress away from them, then they have no game at all. And that's why anyone with a brain doesn't take those folks seriously.
So Ben: you have stated your religious beliefs. Do you understand that no one else must believe as you do, or do you envision America as a theocracy according to your doctrine?
@Anna -- You are wrong on your assumption. Although I do not agree with HCR Act and what a devastating effect it has on America (the underhanded way funding clauses are inserted). We the people were promised live debates on CSpan and were lied to. We were promised transparency when it came to the amount of time it would be posted before being voted on and were lied to. We were told we would have to read the bill to see what is in it after passage. The majority of Americans were against the bill.
But is the law of the land and no one organization can arbitrarily change that. The American People deserve better and that is why the HCR has to be repealed. That is why control of the WH and Senate must change in large numbers.
Dropout Govenor of Utah, he promised he would finish his second term and then bailed a short time later to work for the Obama Admin. He was the head of the Western Gov. Alliance and Obama threw him a bone because the WGA was a pain in Obama's side. And Huntsman jumped for it and then talked up Obama like no other Republican. He thinks nobody will remember? Hmmm!
Anna Molly and newdayDawning10:
I can only say, tsk, tsk, tsk. (That's pronounced tsk, tsk, tsk, by the way.) You failed to note that the author of the Pledge of Allegiance was a Baptist minister. Obviously a godless creature. I have put up a link so you may commit this and other salient facts on the subject to memory. There will be a test tomorrow. http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm
Just a thought for others about this Libya mess. The Constitution gives the power to declare war to Congress. That same Constitution says that treaties are the supreme law of the land.
Consider: This Libyan insanity is being conducted with NATO in the lead. NATO - North Atlantic Treaty Organization. There's a monkey wrench for you - the treaty. The War Powers Act was passed largely to deal with the fact that an imminent threat to national security is far different from an imminent threat of two centuries ago, when we did not have ICBM's, aircraft, long-range artillery, submarines and the like The wonderful world of warfare has changed. With that in mind, perhaps one can explain our forays into Viet Nam, Somalia, Grenada, twice in Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Laos, Bosnia, and oh golly just so many more. Now, there's some imminent threats for ya, particularly Grenada, a bunch of Caribbean, chest-thumping, war mongering, power hungry imperialists.
Anyone blaming Obama for this mess is missing the boat. Yeah, he probably could have passed on this latest adventure. However, this problem originated in Congress. This is a legislative issue and ONLY Congress can fix the problem. Unfortunately, they're a bit busy right now serving their corporate masters. Death and destruction is very profitable you understand, and the military-industrial folks want their money's worth from their lackeys.
What I dont understand......is how they (the left) make so many spelling and grammar errors, cutting and pasting. And they are supposed to be the elite ubereducated ones
Is that the same thing you said when "the American People" (i.e., Congress) adopted Health Care Reform last year?
That example alone ought to convince YOU that Congress doesn't always act in ways that are reasonable, or even that follow the will of the American people.
____________________________________________________________
OUCH!!!!
AM: you are making FR lefty liberals cringe in the face of one of their own actually telling the truth about the lack of public support for ClunkerCare. The best showing ever got was low-mid 40% and most of the time it was at 40% or less. Realclearpolitics.com currently shows an average of five polls as 49.8% favor repeal vs 41.0% opposing repeal.
Thank you.
Ben-
I'm glad Keith Olbermann's back. His return serves to remind one and all of his ignominious departure. Last night, he offered Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas a platform to launch a vicious attack on our hosts here at MSNBC. He even allowed the show to go over its alloted 60 minutes so Moulitsas could finish the assault on his former employer.
It was must-see TV...and only the beginning, I suspect, of Olbermann's quest to settle the score with MSNBC.
He's really not the forgiving type, is he?
Anyway, I hope all the First Read regulars are excited enough to watch Keith every night at 8:00 PM ET on Current TV.
David Walker! You, are of course, quite correct. I put that in a previous post on another thread, because I get a huge kick out of it. He was drummed out of the Baptist church for preaching on his Socialist beliefs (those of his cousin Edward Bellamy) one sermon, if memory serves was titled something like "Jesus is a Socialist." There is a remarkable history about the Bellamy's and they make for fascinating reading.
I watched the Jon Huntsman announcement or as much as the media presented, about 6 mins, quite possibly because it was so mundane, it may be a big day in his life, but so what.
Besides how he changes positions, by the way, is that a Mormon thing?. He appears to be an amiable fellow, nice looking, one might say perhaps, gently bred, with the demeanour of diplomat but there is no WOW there.
I love how threatened folks are by the concepts of "thought" and "progress". Very telling.
P.S. Bill from Fairfax: Most folks are not afraid to take in information from wherever it comes and evaluate it on its own merits. There are no "unbiased" sources, because everyone has a "point of view". Why the fear of "unapproved" sources . . . scared you might learn something? :o)
Ben has been very busy today trying to establish Andrew Breitbart's biggovernment.com as something other than a laughable side show to the world of media, as long as a group of other web sites that are connected to the Tea Party movement.
None of this, of course, undercuts USN's point, that the GOPTP is working hard to reduce wages, restrict access to medical care, accelerate concentration of wealth to the rich, and set the US government up as an organization responsive to the wealthy elites and big business at the expense of average Americans and Main Street business. USN, as usual you're right on target with that.
Anna Molly
If you read down a little further on the Wiki page, you'll see that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist (gasp!). All these unwitting little teabaggers going around mouthing words written by their mortal enemy. How sad. The addition to the Pledge made during the "Godless Communism" hysteria of the 1950s of "one nation under God" doesn't really help if it's a God who approves of socialists writing pledges of allegiance.
worm and navy, et al. - interesting on how you try to link the gop/tp movement with what happened in europe during the 20' and 30's.
Your ignorance, bias and similar campaign of misinformation is showing.
In brief, the national socialist german workers party under the leadership of the rhetorically and misinformational inclined adolph used much the same practises that you are trying to use today. Adolph and company promoted placing blame on the communists, jews and other minority groups on a divide and conquer ideology. Destroy or minimize one group, then move on to the next. Amazing that you and others of your similar ideology have consistantly targeted the right in very general terms as being oh so bad. Yet like adolph and company you want to promote shamelessly that big government (one party) is the be all in our future. Historically your propaganda campaign failed to work in the long term back then, just as it will fail to work in the long term today.
Perhaps if obama and company, as well as yourselves, would choose to pull together in unity with the rest of America our recovery would progress faster and before the next recession (probably very global in nature).
It is indeed unfortunate for most Americans (rich, poor or middle class) that neither obama or the democrats want to make a counter proposal to what the right has submitted in writing. All I hear is rhetoric, rhetoric that harkens back to the days of the late 20's and 30's. IE blame, blame, blame.
american
why does it sound like when you ask US to pull together, what you really mean is we should capitulate and do what you want on YOUR terms? That is what happened in the first meeting with Obama and the then minority party. They stated what they wanted and how they thought that first year should go (with the stimulus, specifically) and THAT is when President Obama pointed out that he won. You have 1/2 of 1/3 of a branch of government. You don't get to set the terms ABSOLUTELY. No matter how much you feel otherwise.
I for one watched Current TV before and enjoyed the pod casts (documentaries). Also like the Rotten tomatoes (movie review) show. I did not see or know that Olberman was back. I'm glad to see that he is pointing out the error of the Libyan incursion.
One thing I do like about him is that if he doesn't agree with Obama or the democrats he says so. I never have been a big fan of Olberman, I would like him to add guests that don't think exactly like him and debate them on the issues.
Hopefully after Obama's Afgan troop withdrawl speech he won't have to echo my thoughts and blast the president for withdrawing only a minimal amount of troops.
It sounds like that because that's how authoritarians like to sell it -- "you should think for yourself, Clara" -- which really means you should think like me. The logic goes around a little like this:
AM
I know, right? thanks for picking it up and running with it.
Re: Olbermann
"...I would like him to add guests that don't think exactly like him and debate them on the issues."
That'll be the day.
Sorry, Mark.
Keith Olbermann is the Cowardly Lion of the liberal/progressive media.
He only surrounds himself with fawning toadies and sycophants like Jonathan Alter, Eugene Robinson, Richard Wolffe, et al.
It's interesting...
I wonder how many of the jesters from Olbermann's court on the old "Countdown" are paid MSNBC "contributors...and will be appearing on Current TV in the latest incarnation of Keith's folly?
American 205
I get where you are coming from in your response, perhaps the analogies used by the original poster went a bit too far. However, I think everyone goes a bit far every once in a while. I can read something that I would disagree with as over the top in your response as well. Let's face it we are all biased in our political opinions and beliefs.
We can't understand how the political opposition can't see that they are so wrong and therefore perhaps in frustration inapproptiately accuse the other side of being evil and hoping for failure. I see it here everyday, some GOP posters who say Obama is a ____— fill in the blank and is doing his best to destroy America.
Others attack not only the Dem/Rep politican or policy, but they chose to personally attack, ridicule or demonize other posters. Others are so one sided that they refuse to criticize anything "my guy did", but revel in the most minor of offenses by the "other guy". Self proclaimed independents or open minded individuals who are, at least in my opinion, vary partial to a particular party's policies.
You are right though there needs to be a compromise on issues. Clara is right as well. Compromise is about both sides not getting what they want not outright capitulation. Funny how some GOP posters seem to taunt us libs about how Obama has kept Gitmo open, started a war in Libya, stepped up the war in Afganistan, extended the tax cuts all right wing ideas, but he is still a ultra lefty.
MB-
Your olbermann schtick is reaching Shakespearean proportions...
as to Huntsman;
Huntsman has no ISSUE, no built in constituency and is too moderate to succeed in this election cycle. He is the media's favorite "reasonable" republican, and this will probably constitute the apogee of his candidacy...
This fiery rhetoric is sure to ignite the base...
Mr. Huntsman promised a cordial campaign, saying “it concerns me that civility, humanity and respect are sometimes lost in our interactions as Americans,” adding, “I don’t think you need to run down somebody’s rep in order to run for the office of president.”
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/huntsman-announces-candidacy-for-president/
Thanks, dangerfield.
I'm just getting warmed up.
I haven't even dusted off "misanthrope" or "misogynist" yet....oops. Sorry.
When you have some spare time, check out Olbermann's "Special Comment" segments on Secretary Of State Hillary Clinton and the late Geraldine Ferraro from the "Countdown" archives. I doubt you'd be able to get through them, but you might gain some insight into the basis of my comments on Olbermann.
Nothing I've ever said about Keith Olbermann is, or could ever be, as nasty as the tone of those two performances.
Off topic: Did you check out Jon Stewart's interview with Fox News' Chris Wallace?
As expected, there were areas of contention...but overall, it was a civil, humorous, even cordial, yet thoughful discussion.
I hope that Stewart accepts Wallace's invite to return.
He's like shooting fish in a barrel when it comes to misogyny; Sadly, I saw both "SC''s way back when...TW cable doesn't carry "current TV"
The unedited version on line is excellent...Though Wallace should be careful, "Crossfire" didn't last 6 months after Stewart skewered that "institution"
So, what does your lack of comment on Huntsman indicate?
Who would YOU like to see run, if not win the nomination, for the republicans?
Clara - I chose my words carefully and believe in what I said, unless of course I choose to banter with fellow posters like AM. If we as a country are unwilling to work together we are doomed. No mystery there nor is it only a function of left or right.
The absence of my not saying that everything the right wants is to be taken as gospel does not negate the fact that the right presented a written plan and that obama and company has only replied with disdain or derision. IE the right put the ball in the lefts court and the left did nothing but say NO WAY. Hardly a politically savvy move by the left to move forward. We have all seen that in 2009 and 2010 the left had little trouble in getting what they wanted without the rights support. I dare say that the midterm elections were more about the populace wanting both sides to work together for recovery rather than an unconditional embrasure of right wing policies.
The constitutional concept of having a seperation between the three levels of government is still sound and the function of the executive branch is still one of leadership, getting everyone on the same page and going in the same direction. Reagan and clinton both knew how to do it as other presidents have as well. I just haven't seen obama do it yet on any type of consistant basis.
Anna - you need to be more cautious in what you wish I say or mean. But what can I say to someone who likes chocolate cake and vanilla frosting with lots of walnuts on top.
Yellowdog - greetings, as usual you know how to present a fairly balanced point of view..
jollyoldsoul1
What I dont understand......is how they (the left) make so many spelling and grammar errors, cutting and pasting. And they are supposed to be the elite ubereducated ones
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There’s only one explanation: They’re closet Republicans.
american, by that measure it makes no difference what the House comes up with as long as it's a "written plan." What next, a plan to pay for the government with fuzzy ducklings?
Coming up with a ridiculous, irresponsible, ideologically-driven plan doesn't negate the Constitutional requirement that budget-related laws originate in the House. House Republicans STILL have a responsibility to produce an actual budget rather than the script for a Tea Party dramatic presentation.
dangerfield-
I don't know enough about Huntsman and I'm not sure we're seeing the whole Republican field.
If I were to choose just one conservative, and could pick anyone, I think I'd choose Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK).
He's got a pretty good relationship with his colleagues across the aisle, and I believe he has a solid intellect along with some common sense.
Any candidate who isn't willing or able to broker bipartisan agreements across party lines has no chance of seriously addressing the nation's problems...whatever their party ID.
I understand Coburn has no intention of seeking a term in the Senate beyond his present one.
After that, who knows.
It is likely that Huntsman is likely not well known enough, nor is he enough of a politician to make it through the primaries.
What is truly revealing though is the ultra-thin skin of liberals posting, and the sheer hatred of anything not liberal.
There is no chance at all of a discussion when the red head, bev and the others pipe in. No wonder no one admits to having ultra leftie friends. Buzz kill doesn't begin to describe these closed minded folks.
Oh well.
I have seen some comments in this string about Governor Perry of Texas, one thing that stands out about his record I did not see mentioned and have never heard Perry mention is where exactly most of the jobs he gets credit for creating actually came from. The decent employment rate that Texas has enjoyed that most of the country has not has absolutely nothing to do with Governor Perry. A few years back the largest natural gas sites was discovered under Texas, at least 17 counties. Some experts have suggested the Barnett Shale may have the largest producible reserves of any onshore natural gas field in the United States. The Natural Gas industry here in Texas has created just short of 100,000 jobs in just s few short years so believe me when I say, all Perry had to do is figure out how to get his cut. He was not responsible for any of those almost 100,000 jobs.
When I hear people like Newt mention that Gov. Perry has created more jobs in Texas than all other 49 states combined and we should model after Perry's plan, it makes me laugh and realize these yokels have no idea what to do or how to do it, model US job creation based on basically what turned out to be a gift from God to Rick Perry.
Robert, thanks.
I think Texas has created a favorable environment for the California Companies looking for cheap "In Nation" labor. And don't forget, they opened two new In and Out Burgers and I've heard they can't keep up with demand for over a month now:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110511/tr_ac/8455209_innout_burger_opens_in_texas
I think their doing their part to help assimilate the California's, right?
Yep Clara, I hear we are getting like 7 In and Out Burgers, they are actually about to open the third one just a few blocks from me here in Dallas. Maybe a hard core conservative style of California, most of their legislation this year has been about forcing women that want or need an abortion to have a mandatory sonogram and listen to the heart beat and see the monitor and then about guns. Making it legal to carry on college campuses, legal to carry in the open, legal to carry even on private property that has banned guns before. Just recently since all the talk about him running for POTUS he has started taking on the TSA and Immigration, probably to start getting some recognition nationally as someone going after federal responsibilities like a cowboy!
My best friend lives in Allen and she said she finally toughed it out and got burgers there a couple of weeks ago, took about an hour and a half.
I'm curious. For the "small" government types. If the pregnant mother to be is on Medicaid, is the cost of the sonogram a NECESSARY medical expense? I mean doesn't that fly in the face (tea bag reference purely unintentional; but gratuitous, now that I thought of it) of reducing spending and keeping GOVERNMENT out of the doctor's office?
Yes, the Legislative priorities of your state certainly don't seem to line up with the fiscal problems, do they? I always enjoyed my time in Texas. If you don't like it, shoot it - seems to be the new mantra. Remember when it was "Everything's Bigger in Texas"? I guess that holds especially true for egos, eh?
Thanks for the chat. (typo above should have read Californian's)
At What Point Do the GOP’s Shenanigans Become Treason?
Posted on 11 June 2011 by Edward Lynn
So here’s the question… At what point do the Republican Party’s attempts to undermine the United States of America, in every way become treasonous? I contend they crossed that line long ago
Just look at what they’re doing, and try to tell me with a straight face that their actions aren’t going to “impair the well-being” of the state itself, not to mention it’s people. Just try to tell me that their actions, like pushing our country to default on it’s debt for the first time in history, undermining the rights of our workforce, assaulting the health of our people, and the ability of our elders to live out their final years with dignity, like taking dictatorial levels of power for Governors and even eliminating democracy itself at the local level wherever they please, like ignoring our crumbling infrastructure knowing full well that doing so leaves us vulnerable to attack and disaster, like dragging our fighting men and women into wars in the wrong theaters against the wrong enemies, as they did in Iraq, while letting our real enemies get away, as they did with Bin Laden, like revolting against fair taxes on the rich who can afford them painlessly anyhow, forcing our nation to slash it’s spending on it’s own people to the bone, like ignoring the consensus of 97% of scientists warning us of the consequences of climate change, even though that endangers our people and presents a national security threat, because that’s not in the interest of their true loyalties – to industry – just try to tell me that all of that, and all the other shameless things they’re doing don’t add up to treason. Clearly, it does.
Republicans like Paul Ryan, Pat Toomey, and Ron Paul who are actively working to cause our country to deliberately default on it’s obligations for the first time ever are actively trying to undermine America’s standing in the world. Nothing could be more treasonous than that. Republicans like Scott Walker and John Kasich have seized dictatorial levels of power, power not granted them by the people, power not traditionally granted to their office, and all but swept democracy aside – even seeking to make it harder for the people to vote, especially if they’re the kind of person less likely to vote for them. Even wiping out lower governments entirely How is THAT not treason?
With the exception of one’s family, or possibly one’s God, when you are more loyal to any other entity than you are to your own country, be that entity a lobbyist, or a corporation, or an industry group, or a political party, or a foreign nation – if you’re an American citizen, and you consider yourself to be anything else first, and an American second, then you’re disloyal. But when you take action on that disloyalty, and actively work to undermine the standing, or security of the United States of America –which is a government of, by, and for the people – then you are by definition a traitor. And that means most of the Republicans in major federal or state office today meet that definition.
http://progresszine.com/2011/06/11/at-what-point-do-the-gops-shenanigans-become-treason/
_________________________________________________________
Oh we got trouble right here in River City
Yes folk’s trouble I say
And it starts with a T and it ends with an N
There’s a whole lot of obstrufucan and statements that are not factual in between
But make no mistake
If you carry it to far it’s treason.
Good morning IR. Great facts on your part.
IR:
Outstanding piece. The New GOP/TP has turned it back on the American People and their current Agenda has no basis in American Ideology. They are against just about everything that made this country great.
They are anti union, antigay, anti education, anti science and technology, anti middle class and low income, anti Social Programs to help Americans that need additional help. They want to repeal/privatize Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security even though 70% of the people opposse this agenda.
I have written several articles on how the New GOP/TP is adopting failed ideologies of Europe in the 30's and 40's. Your analysis is the next logical step in their ideology or is it the foundation to support their new European Ideology. Not sure, what came first the chicken or the egg.
People you better start connecting the dots and soon. We are on a path set by the GOP/TP that will destroy the very fabric of this country. Once that happens it will take decades to recover and that assumes we can. I am not so sure But I know this is not a road we want to go down. Other countries have gone down it and failed. Not one made it work and it will not work here. This is not the America we want to leave for our kids and grandchildren - or is it???
IR: Again outstanding - Yes I patted IR on the back - so what!!!!
Independent Redneck Va.
So Navy calls the Republicans Nazis and you say they are guilty of treason. Why? Because you don't agree with their political agenda?
Here's the cure for that. Vote them out in 2012. Other than that, as Nashville_fan said, "please put a sock in it".
Both your and Navy's rhetoric is way over the top and borderline insane.
Only under the Obama administration is disagreement with a president categorized as treason. Go read Navy's longwinded post- according to him, republicans plan to take away freedom of religion, among other wild-eyed statements.
The lengths to which democrats will go to undermine Obama's opponents is ludicrous. Do you really think that describing people as Nazis, (as Navy does, in some way, on a daily basis), or traitors, will shore up support for Obama? Cause, I'm thinking it will not work.
Here is the problem with this presidency: he started out with "Yes We Can", and made a lot of empty promises.
Could he, as he promised, cut the deficit in half by the second year of his presidency? No, he can't.
Could he go through spending bills line by line, and veto any bill loaded with pork? Given the pork laden Omnibus Spending bill of 2009, and the equally pork laden stimulus bill, No, He Can't.
Can he put forth proposals to cause robust economic growth? No, He Can't.
Can he close Gitmo? No, He Can't.
Can he end the wars? No, He Can't- and he started a third, illegally, to boot.
Can he reduce the number of unemployed people? No, He Can't. That number is over 14 million now- and real unemployment, which counts those working part time for economic reasons, (their hours have been cut), and those marginally attached to the labor force,( who want work, but believe there are no jobs), is close to 17%. On that one, he really, really, can't.
Can he win re election? No. No, he can't. Asking people to give him another term so he can "finish the job" is pure idiocy. That is exactly what the voters fear- that he will, actually, finish the job. And finish off this nation.
The electorate has lost all hope for this presidency. They are looking to make a change.
Independent Redneck Va.
But you think that nobody should point out how malignant Republican policies are before 2012. Without free speech, the people in power ALWAYS win, which apparently is what you're hoping for.
The Republicans nearly destroyed the economy and deny global warming despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of scientists have concluded that climate change is real and despite the fact that the planet already is burning and drowning in climate change before our eyes. They long ago crossed the borderline into insanity. And they've dragged people like you along with them.
Nojo and Woim Made my case. You'll aren't even close to making yours. Care to try again,
Independent Redneck:
Excellent post filled with examples of how the GOP is working against the "human people" in defense of the "corporate people".
Interesting that your critics have not refuted the points you made, but rather decided to whine about the word "treason".
Typical for a group that sat silently by as President Obama was called that and worse.
IR has made his case using facts, and no amount of whining is gonna change the history of what the GOP has done and is continuing to do to enrich themselves at the expense of our country.
Excellent post, IR; very appropriate to what we see happening across the country. The GOPTP has crossed the line; they are not for America's ideals established by the founding fathers because they are no longer a party of conservative people but a party of their conservative corporate masters.
Independent Redneck Va.
Nojo and Woim Made my case. You'll aren't even close to making yours. Care to try again,
Wow, we disagree with your political views so that makes us traitors and Nazi's.
So everyone here who posts something that disagrees with your politics is a traitor and a Nazi?
I know I read somewhere that I had the right to express my views freely and without fear of reprisal.
It was in something called the Constitution.
Read it, First Amendment.
Nash, there are over 14 million people who can tell you it is Obama who is working against the American people. They are the victims of his policies.
Personally, I think pointing out that such rhetoric as calling republicans Nazis and Traitors is deleterious to democratic arguments is helpful to democrats- unless you actually want the electorate to see democrats as wild-eyed zealots who spew forth nothing but vitriol.
I.R. And Navy are entitled to their opinions, and are entitled to copy and paste other opinion pieces as they wish.
The facts are another story. Take consumer confidence
http://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm
Two things are important to remember when reading this: consumer confidence is a leading economic indicator, and a number above 80 is indicative of growth.
I will let you conclude where a number around 60 indicates the economy is heading.
Really. I read throughout so much other crap, but your opening sentence was too funny. "only under the Obama Administration". I remember being a loud opponent of Iraq, and I was routinely called a traitor and a terrorist supporter. I remember W's "you're with us or against us" and listened to every Bush cheerleader echo that. I remember being outraged when the warrent-less wiretapping came to light, and once again being told that I'm anti-American. On and on, every time I opposed on firm grounds what W did, i was called everything from anti-American to traitor, and this was done by every ideologue and cheerleader on the Right.
I keep laughing when you "Patriots" parrot whatever daily talking point about Obama being the most leftist, liberal, loony (or whatever your daily alliteration is), cuz He would be too right-wing for the Dems in the 70's. Indeed, with his flaunting of American power and the continuation of many Bush policies--warrentless wiretapping and the Patriot Act come to mind--he would have been to the RIGHT of the 70's Republican Party. So go on, use your buzzwords and flamethrowing talk, it is nothing else it is entertaining to see how low you can set the bar--while claiming the high ground!
woim:
The only person calling you a traitor and and Nazi is yourself. I'll take your word on it.
My apologies to IR. As he probably figured already, I was responding to Woim, not to him in #2.5.
By the way, on the subject of treason, don't forget our are secession-talkin' rootin' tootin' coyote shootin' gubner down here in Texas!
no joe:
Osama Bin Laden had a poll showing that he was winning too.
No worries Houston. F.C. thanks for the expansion much appreciated. So I'll say again I've made my case and Nojo and Woim ain't even close. Want to try one more time?
BTW good morning Nash. A day without Nashville is like a day without sunshine.
Good one, Nash. I can hear the debates already:
Mr. President- unemployment is higher than when you took office, despite spending almost a trillion stimulus dollars. What are you going to do to bring down unemployment?
Obama: I killed bin Laden.
Yeah. That ought to work.
As an Independent looking at both sides on this blog, (and this one is going out to my Independent news letter) is the left here today are using the old blow the same old Smoke up the American peoples butts and the right seems to be posting facts. When I see a new FR question of statement, I cant tell you the order of the first 6 or 7 posts! Navybouy then Feisty/Bev followed by Anna Molly then a group of the lib from Maine and the two so called rednecks. Apparently its not OK to have a different opinion on this blog. But Im very happy to use it as a motivator. There is nothing better to use for learning than a real life indicator and the contrast of how each side treats the other is very apparent on this blog!
Great post IR, in the midst of all that whining and complaining, I even hear the occasional 'crickets'. Your case stands.
jolly:
You are an "independent"? Is that French for Republican abdicating responsibility for the sh!t storm they left for President Obama to clean up?
no joe: I am gonna save you a seat at President Obama's Inauguration . . . you'll have a ball! :oP
P.S. Forgot to say THANKS for the shout out from my favorite Redneck . . . this place just ain't the same when you are away . . . welcome back!
woim - based on your 2.x posts did I misinterpret your 1.x post to navy?
IR your case failed in that it was a cut and paste of someone elses misguided opinion. You as well as many other FR libs seem to revel in letting someone else do your thinking and writing
Deceptive language from the FR Conservatives as usual. Let's look at the evidence;
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030630.html
Then again maybe it's just Ann Coulter who would be so unreasonable. Nope; http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/mostert/030711
In fact Conservatives were intent after 9/11 on using the attack to militarize their presence in government and criminalize dissent. http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2006/07/playing_the_tre.html
When your very FIRST comment is a lie so blatant as the one highlighted at the top of this post you've already surrendered every shred of credibility. The Ministry of Propaganda would be proud.
american-2051576..
Misinterpret? How?
Navy compared the Republican party to the Nazi's twice today.
Read his posts or read the excerpts in my posts.
He hasn't denied he said it so I guess he believes it.
I called him out on it.
Thanks GBM and Nash. Seems like to me that we have forgoton how to debate the points I'm trying to make. Reckon it didn't come out in the talking points memo for the right this morning.
Nash, you know I love ya, but you need to stay out of the "predictions" business.
Remember how your call on the mid terms turned out?
nojonobo
Global temperatures and sea levels are also higher now than when Barack Obama took office. Is that his fault, too, or maybe is it more the fault of the global-warming denier who occupied the office before him?
Uh, should Obama cut taxes and deregulate.? That worked so well during the Bush Misadministration.
all crow,
Speaking of predictions, are you still sour President Obama hasn't resigned yet? Easy money, nj, EASY money.
Not that you are really interested, Houston, but it is not regulations, or their lack, that is the problem for businesses with low margins of profitability- it is unpredictability that is at issue.
If you are doing business, following all the regulations that govern your business, and showing a profit, all is right with the world. When, suddenly, like a shot out of the blue, a new regulation comes down from Washington, you have to scramble to comply. Often they are retroactive to their introduction- as in, the bill to implement was proposed in January, but the law was not enacted until September. You have now been in violation of said law for nine months. And, yes, it can and is done all the time now- since the courts ruled that Clintin's tax increase could be made retroactive to his inauguration, because the electorate knew or should have known that it would be done, given his campaign.
Moreover, most regulations are so poorly written that they are open to interpretation, so one regulator sees one method of compliance, another sees a violation. It is such a sucker's game it is a wonder we have any small businesses at all in this country, and really no mystery that there is such a slow rate of new business development.
Never mind. You do not need to understand the problem. Just keep using vile terms like "climate deniers"- no one sees the connection. Nah.
I really do hope the democrats keep up the wild rants. Calling the electorate Nazis, traitors, and deniers will certainly have an effect.
Kind of like Obama telling them they were too dumb to know how good he was at his job.
no joe:
Yeah . . . I do remember my mid-term predictions . . . fortunately, when I'm wrong I just admit it instead of find a whole lot of bogus polls and bullsh!t articles to blame it on someone else.
Food for thought.
To those conservatives posting here this morning: Of course this is an open forum. Of course opposing views are welcome. But when your first posts are an attack on not only on others' points of view, but also a complete denial of any and all of their sources, then it becomes something other than civil discourse.
The "uncertainty" narrative is one of the greatest indicators that Conservatives have nothing to offer. The whole theory of Capitalism is that smart business owners are rewarded for taking the RISK of starting their own enterprise, while bad business owners fail. There is NEVER a time when things in life are CERTAIN. You don't know when a given expansion will end, or for that matter a given recession. There's no guarantee that a competitor won't figure out something you haven't. Consumer tastes change, as does the business climate worldwide. Legislators and regulators are ALWAYS free to change the laws, and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.
In spite of that, the American economy not only survived but thrived through the return of massive numbers of young men coming home from war, the displacement of a roughly equal number of women from the workforce, the Cold War, Space Race, Interstate highways knocking the railroads for a loop, auto safety regulations, pollution regulations, the return of large numbers of women to the workforce, the Baby Boom, the advent of mass computerization into business and private homes, a transition from 3 channels on TV to dominance by cable TV, to dominance by satellite TV, and much, much more.
In fact, the only thing that slowed us down were a series of increasingly violent economic bubbles caused by a headlong rush to deregulation of business and industry. 467,000 government employees lost their jobs in the last year, taking their economic activity with them. And the people who brought all that back are intent on having us believe that business can only function if the environment is quiet as Center Court at Wimbledon.
Except, of course, that "lack of uncertainty" really isn't their goal. Their goal is the CERTAINTY that if elected Conservatives will deliver unto the wealthy and corporations vast riches in tax cuts and the ability to cut wages. Eliminating the social safety net is a strategy to make average Americans so desperate they'll work for the wages of the Pacific Rim, giving the wealthy elites a double bonus.
In the process, Conservatives INTEND TO DESTABLILIZE the economy. They INTEND to make the vast majority of Americans LESS SECURE, and in the process they'd reduce the very "certainty" they carp about. In reality the only certainty the GOPTP is looking for is the certainty that Wall Street and the wealthy elites win while Main Street and the middle class lose.
Moreover, most regulations are so poorly written that they are open to interpretation, so one regulator sees one method of compliance, another sees a violation.
So true, but as I do not own a business I can not relate to regulations being a hindrance on me. I do agree with portions of John B's post, the uncertainty meme that the GOP speak of is played out.
However I can relate to regulations in regards to Building codes as they relate to architecture. It is a stretch I know, but Building codes are put in place for the public's well being, whether it deals with life safety systems, fire alarms, sprinklers, redundancy in structural elements etc. All of this is done for the public good not for a bottom line profit by the owner. ADA guidelines, actually civil rights legislation, need to be followed. Those are the rules and they need to be followed. Those costs need to be implemented into the project, they are the price of business.
Along the same lines government regulations, environmental water, air emmisions, safety and OSHA regulations etc. are for the public's well being. A private company or even a government company for that matter can not be trusted to do right by the people based on the goodness of their heart. Regulations are needed they are the price of business.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
They can't even be trusted to thoroughly consider last minute design changes,...
Woim - sounded like you agreed with him. Apparently not though.
Yellowdog - Uncertainty is hardly played out as the regs are still being written and as shown by the continual volitility in the global markets. Uncertainty lies also in what the regs will cost to do business. Just because congress passes legislation, business will be unclear as to its effect until the regs are written.
Unfortunately for us all, uncertainty affects everyday life. The businessman wonders if he can hire more people in expectations of increased demand at a price that the consumer will pay. The consumer wonders if they will have a job tommorow to pay for what they want to buy today. The politician wonders what he can promise to get re-elected.
With all that is happening globally it is easy to see where the uncertainty lies, and that is in government policy, be it here, europe, asia or elsewhere. We are still in a pessimistic attitude as to what the future holds and no one is beating the drum promoting happy days around the corner.
no joe, no bo, nj
Keep pretending that eveybody hasn't heard the bogus "uncertainty" excuse countless times, as if you're just point it out for the first time. The certainty that the Republicans want to give big business is the certainty that they can take huge risks with other people's money and if the roll snake-eyes again, the taxpayers will bail them out, just like in 2008.
What's vile are the consequences of global warming denial, which are becoming more apparent every day.
Good morning.
I have noticed an increasing number of posters lodging complaints against several folks who regularly post here at First Read.
Without getting into the merits of the various complaints, I would like to say that anyone who posts here is free to share their perspective and politics as they see fit. It is perplexing to me why suddenly so much time is being invested in complaining about things like “who posts first” or “who should be banned” or focusing on the source of the information as a technique to get around the inconvenient truths presented.
Folks, commenting on political blogs is pretty simple. If you have something to say, you say it. If folks agree or disagree, they say it. If somebody gets out of line, there are venues to complain and avenues of recourse.
Those who have been coming to First Read for years realize that the primary reason that there is so much “cutting and pasting” here is because there is also a whole lot of “bald faced lying” here. When you attempt to post a link, it is dismissed by the same paid troll propagating unsourced our poorly sourced lies.
So in closing, if you have a point to make, just go right ahead and make it. If someone says something that you don’t like, tell us why or flag it and move on. Otherwise, please put a sock in it . . . I am getting drunk with all the WHINE flowing around here these days.
<end rant>
Brilliant as always, Nash, you are the BEST!
Great rant, Nashville Fan. I might also suggest use of the "ignore author" button----it does great things for the blood pressure.
Thanks Nash. As always, you are on target.
No, Ben: I am relatively certain that the prize for biggest liar anywhere is Fox "News". But, good try.
ROCK ON GF!
*hugs*
@Nashville -- I am sorry but you are not the keeper of the Code of Honor on Newsvine. What a hypocrite saying people have a right to post and share what they like then telling other to put a sock in it. You are as two-faced as they come.
It is very obvious that the moderators are enabling the bad behavior here. It is also obvious that the server on which I receive MSNBC.com does not have FR/FT appear at least 15 to 20 minutes after it appears to others. The moderators should see -- in the matter of fairness -- that that does not occur to allow others to have their posts higher on the blog and not forced down with cut & pastes, xxx, etc.
Nash:
They are complaining because they have nothing. They broke their promise on Jobs and the Economy. They want to repeal/privatize medicare, medicaid, social security even though 70% or better of Americans are telling them to get their hands off.
The only Agenda they have is for cuts to social programs and then use that money for tax cuts to the millionaires and billionaires. That is it. No Jobs, No Economy, cut Education and total destroy entitlements and create a class based society and then have the nerve to call it fiscal reform. It is reform alright, but not fiscally.
When you have a Party that is so lost all they can do is throw stones and try to gt people off message. Well that game no longer works.
We all have every right to post what we want and to write it the way we want as long as we are not violating the CoH. I will not change what I write just because so GOP/TP supporter does not like it. I do not care if the agree or disagree. I will not let them try and demand I do what they want. Sorry that dog will not hunt.
Go someplace else and try and bully them, you cannot bully me so get use to it or go soemplace else to swoop and poop.
Ben:
If you had the first post, what would you say? Without anything to complain about, who would you be?
@Nashville -- In the first place, I would read the article first before forming a comment. I would not prepare in advance comments and post whether they are on topic -- part of the Code of Honor -- or not.
I would point out today that anyone who says anything bad about Jon Huntsman is only reflecting back on his previous employer. This wasn't a bad egg that was fired, he quit a failed administration and it failed foreign policies. Huntsman scares the left in that he has more knowledge about our greatest concern -- China -- in his little finger than this entire failed administration has. He has more knowledge about creating jobs and running government in his other little finger than this entire failed administration has.
He is statesman like. He is not an empty suit like the current failed president. This failed administration is scared or else he wouldn't have lied and flip-flopped to large Jewish donors last night.
Bravo, Ben,
I suggest you call in sick tomorrow, prepare a fuzzy bio of Huntsman, log onto the site at about 8:05a and then hit that little refresh button until the article comes up.
If your company has your server locked down, that is CERTAINLY not First Read's problem.
Absent your willingness to CHANGE your 'plight',...for the love of everything FAIR - would you quit whining about it? Sheesh, you sound like one of the ENTITLED ones who hasn't quite wrapped their head around it not going their way.
Ben:
If the President were really a failure, you wouldn't feel the need to keep telling us that he is. The President has done a masterful job finding reality based solutions to age old problems. And you know it, thus the constant negativity . . . an attempt to counteract a much different reality.
Well said, Nashville Fan! It seems conservative FR posters are more concerned about "who's on first" than they are in debating what was said first. When a poster cannot dispute a comment, it is easy to deflect and change the subject to "who's on first".
I've read Ben's complaints before before about the alleged 15-20 minute head start liberals get on First Thoughts. What a bunch of baloney. Ben or whoever you used to be, the timing has nothing to do with preferential treatment and everything to do with a person's internet carrier! Even if I am ready with a post for FR, I have been first exactly once in three years and I am a liberal; and you know what--I don't care whether a conservative or a liberal is first. What counts is what that person has to say not when they say it.
@Clara -- Actually I am retired and access the internet via Time Warner at home. This site just does not come up on my screen until a good 15-20 minutes after the first posts are posted. No entitlement sought here. It is just a little odd or too coincidental.
@Nashville -- I don't know or acknowledge any such thing and you know it. The left is running scared and will run on the campaigns of personal destruction because it has a pitiful record to run on. You might want to give the same advice to another poster(s) who continually say that the GOP and Tea Party were failures. You know if they were really failures, then they wouldn't feel the need to keep telling us they are.
Nashville,
Do you believe in consequences? Do you believe in common decency? Do you believe in a handshake or a verbal agreement should be honored? I believe in these things. If you commit yourself to a contract you must abide by the rules or in this case the Code Of Conduct. Many people here at FR takes the code and stretch it as far as it will go, no surprise its human nature.
But when someone so blatantly goes beyond that gray area don’t you believe there should be consequences? I do.
I also believe that our moderators are bias and will do anything to protect the FR chosen few. But sometimes you just can’t look the other way, and you need to address the problem. That is why I called Feisty out on Friday and also Monday. I will continue to do so until I get and answer or deleted by the moderators.
What Feisty said Friday goes beyond the code, and yet no consequences, not a peep from the moderators.
Please read below and tell me honestly, can you condone this behavior, and if so, would you teach your children that this behavior is acceptable
Again, Feisty at her finest - (Fri- attack on nojo, sick)
1. Still got the battery acid running through your veins eh NJNB?
We would like to believe that after you recent near heartbreak, you would of re-assessed the amount of hatred you carry in your heart...
We should of known better....
2.You GO get them you miserable OLD BAT M'Kay?
PS: Thought you had me on ignore?
Nothing more than further PROOF you're a LIAR & and FRAUD...
DO YOU know where your hubby is? LMAO!
3. And therein lies the title you've so succesfully earned as the seond biggest LIAR on this blog right behind JS1!
YOU are a PHONY, FRAUD & a unsuccesul LIAR!
You have been PROVEN repeatedly to soak up EVERY comment like the right wind sponge YOU are!
Notice to NJNB - there were MORE people defending my comments then those that came to your rescue!
That little princess of yours has my deepest sympathies with a HATE riddled Grama like yourself!
Just keepon hating on... one day you will get yours! ;o)
Every dog has her day and it won't take long before YOU get yours...
4 .What's the matter NJNB - hubby out of town AGAIN? I would be more worried about WHAT was UPwith that then spreading you your HATRED every chance you get?
Do YOU think the hubby wants to get it on with a BITTER OLD BROAD that couldn't day something NICE if they had a GUN to their head?
Anyone else would have had the account suspended.
Thanks again for prioving YOU are a certifiable LIAR there GF!
Other than with someone WHO is WARM
I am sorry to take away time from the posters here, but I felt it needed to be addressed.
Thanks
Ben:
No, actually the simultaneous collapse of the housing, job, and stock market coupled with stagnant wages and our need to bail out the same folks who stole our money while paying off Congress to look the other way is what gave us the clue that Republican Parties policies don't actually work.
Nice try though.
Ben -
I'm a liberal, too - one who doesn't like getting up early - but on the rare occasions when I do and I have a post already written (I'll confess to being a slow typist and an even slower thinker), I've never yet made it to the first spot either. And you know what? I don't really care who's "first". I have certain posters I always LOOK FOR first, and if I have time (and the page isn't scrolling like molasses) I'll go back and read whatever else I can that looks new and interesting. And I suspect most readers here do pretty much the same thing. So relax......if you have something people want to read, they'll make an effort to find you. If you don't, they'll pass right by without a second glance - whether you're first, last, or somewhere in the middle. Whether your posts are long, short, or somewhere in the middle. Or whether you're a liberal, a conservative, or (assuming this still exists!) somewhere in the middle.
theotas:
I find it beyond ironic that you CLAIM to find what Feisty said to be so very heartwrentching and awful, and yet you continue to talk about it and repost it.
You remind me of the folks who campaign against gay rights day and night, and then turn out to be gay.
Most folks avoid stuff that they don't like, you dive right in. . . me thinks thou doth protest too much.
I think that whether or not Feisty "went to far" does not matter one bit. I think that the fact that the Supreme Court of the United States declared that corporations are people with rights of free speech is a lot more relevant and destructive, seeing as I didn't see one word about "corporate people" in the Constitution.
But you wanna be outraged by some comments on a message board. Go right ahead. Tear your hair out. Wail and shout.
I'm gonna stay focused on the issues, and the folks around here who are bound and determined that we talk about everything except the issues . . . people like yourself.
But I do appreciate your concern about what I teach my children though . . . very touching.
@Nashville -- You believe the Republican policies don't work. I believe the democrat policies of the current administration are failed as well. So what's the answer?
I have asked several times for posters to look at the one-cent proposals from both sides of the aisle (Mack & Fattah (sp?)) and offer some reasonable compromises. No one wants to do that. All they want to do is post ad nauseum the same cut & paste tripe everyday. Attack Ryan instead of finding the parts that work and acknowledge that nothing needs to change in entitlements. And they call themselves enlightened. Sheesh. How about? Want to discuss those and other proposals some day?
Nash,
I think I have this righteous indignation thing ALL figured out! It reminds me of how Saddam Houssein flipped off George Bush the First and invaded Kuwait. Then threatened to kill Papa Bush. Little "W" never quite got over that and as soon as he cleared enough brush to 'blaze' a trail so that 9/11 could happen,...he had created EXACTLY the diversionary tactic necessary to INVADE Iraq. Then, all he had to do was convince a very skittish Congress that there were WMD. From that point forward it was just a hop skip and a jump to Operation Iraqi Freedom - oops I mean retaliation for harboring the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11.
If you hold an outraged grudge LONG enough - ANY ends will justify the means.
See, if you suspend all REALITY and make a big smoke and mirrors scene about something UNRELATED,...you can gin up enough support so that a WITCH HUNT is inevitable. Or not,...maybe things are exactly as they appear with NO HIDDEN AGENDA? Pull this leg and it plays jingle bells.
Or, we could just GET OVER IT, right?
Nashville - despite your desire for one party rule in America, do you still insist that everything is the rights fault? I see that all I ever hear from you is crickets when I ask you where was the left in the first 11 years of this decade. Do you also think that "average joe American" wasn't also complicit in the great recession? Having a one track mindset is rarely a benefit to anyone and certainly is a big liability when it comes to politics.
I visit FR in the hopes of learning and conversing about opposing view points. After all how can one learn anything if everyone says the same thing? Cut and paste can be useful to support ones argument but becomes quite inane when used as a crutch to express what they hope to sell.
I dare say that most posters here are of an age that their own life experiences make them more than qualified to express their own observations on the world around them.
I tip my hat to Ira, Yellowdog, mark-416 who can present arguments from the left with clarity and intellegence. Minor acknowledgements must also go in part to anna molly, dennis of ohio.
As for the posters from the right, I may not agree totally with what they say, but they are willing to bring the argument up and defend that argument with links that are not op-ed pieces. I also see that other "righties" rarely go out of the way patting them on the back and extolling their virtues to the extent of the left. Must have something to do with many FR libs not being confident in their own opinions. lol.
Ben:
I would very much enjoy discussing actual policy proposals with you any time. It is difficult, however, to have a discussion if we are not going to acknowledge the fact that many of the same things that Republicans are proposing now are the very same things that got us into this situation in the first place (referring specifically to tax cuts).
I think the one cent proposals have a lot of promise, but most of the Republicans Congressfolks I hear talking about it still would prefer to cut each and every benefit to each and every needy person in the country first before ending corporate subsidies and making rich folks who are skiriting our tax laws pay their fair share.
I just have a fundamental problem with that.
Nashville,
Sarcasm noted.
I think that whether or not Feisty "went to far" does not matter one bit. That's not surprising.
Really, so what is the code of conduct for, if no one here will honor it? Why would you enter into an agreement knowing you would not honor it. Its the principle. Doesn't that mean anything?
american:
Reality says that Republican policies destroyed our economy. These are ideas that the championed, campaigned on and implemented. They didn't work. Now you wanna know where were the Democrats? In Congress getting steamrolled by a Republican President with "political capital" that he was hell bent on using.
In terms of which posters strike your fancy and float your boat, that's nice. I am more swayed by the validity of what someone says than by the style they use to say it. But that's just me.
To all posters questioning what appears to be the FR liberals inate ability to seemingly alway post first.
One can sign up for email alerts from FR on upcoming posts. Don't know wht the lead times are and I don't really care.
First read/first thoughts WILL NOT ENFORCE newsvines CofH. Hence you won't see many posters here post elsewhere on newsvine blogs.
To those consistantly posting first are their opinions or cut and pastes really that important?
FR libs are more likely to post when the biline has demonicos or mark murrays name is part of the byline and the emphasis is on republicans
theotoas and american:
It is okay not to post if you don't have anything to say. . . and sharing your personal pet peeves about other folks who do have something to say doesn't count.
P.S. Yes, I know . . . I am not the site moderator . . . I am a hypocrite . . . blah, blah, blah, blah. How about some Republican, market based ideas to help America? Anybody got any of those? I keep hearing rumors, but so far, no dice.
Nashville,
You didnt answer my question. Do you believe Fesity stepped over the line by attacking nojoe and on a personal level? Seriously, Husband cheating, gun to the head, people like me more then you and the list goes on. Do you condone this behavior?
nashville - you are such a sweety! You say the democrats were "steamrolled", but yet the congressional record says otherwise.
You run off at the mouth about "ideas that they championed, campaigned on and implemented" but yet you refuse to identify them and put them in historical context of the events happening at the time or that many of the left also supported those policies passed. Isn't that what effective politics involves? Bipartisanship?
Rather amazing that you have a blind side when it comes to the events occuring since the 2006 elections, no steamrolling there was there? Sad that you want to continue being a part of the problem rather than being part of the solution.
So what counts more, validity of the argument or the style with which it is presented? Both are very subjective when delivered as a campaign speech or op-ed with no specific reference to actions.
theotas:
I'm sorry, you must have gotten me confused with Feisty's mother. Or maybe, you have gotten yourself confused with my mother.
I don't "answer" to you, thanks. If my previous comment didn't clear it up for you, no subsequent comments will either. Any grown person commenting on a blog who cannot handle comments from folks they don't know obviously should seek a different form of infotainment.
Pretty simple.
american:
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people."
-Eleanor Roosevelt
Nashvill,
I asked a direct question, and you get a song and dance. Typical. I am acting on principal, something obviously you know nothing about.
Sorry to have wasted your time and mine.
oh, dear sweet, thetotas:
When enmeshed in issues of PRINCIPLES,...it's imperative, my dear, that you have SOME:
I am not normally one to call the kettle black as I know for certain I've said and posted things I've regretted, gone over the line a time or two - or simply misread a post or reacted to a poster that I cannot stand PERSONALLY (looking at you Billy Boy); but really since you've declared yourself the arbiter of FAIRNESS here at First Read let's look back on some of your Personal Bests, shall we?
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/05/6592522-inside-the-boiler-room-bin-laden-a-2012-game-changer?commentId=20750644#c20750644
Oh, and here's a really SPECIAL one, sent straight to me:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/25/6718267-dnc-chair-celebrates-ny-26-win?commentId=54544928#c54544928
Yeah,...there are plenty more where these came from; but let's just suffice it to say that I haven't met a poster, yet, who has managed to climb into the pit and come out completely unscathed, as it were. We are NOT immune from PERSONAL attacks when we perceive our VALUES, FRIENDS or ISSUES are being called into question.
And for the absolute LAST time on this topic - If some of you newbies think there isn't 3 1/2 years of history of attacks and vitriol between Feisty and NoJo - you're either too naive to be here or too hypocritical to know the difference.
By the way,...if we ALL traveled the high road, can you imagine the complaints about the traffic?
Clara:
Thank you so much for putting this self righteous pretender back on planet Earth. Talk about a downer.
Game - Set - Match Clara!
Ditto what Nash said!
People who live in glass houses should really think before tossing their 'faux indignant' stones!
Wow, Clara! Well done, my friend! theotas has never really posted anything of substance, been in attack mode since she came here. theotas; how is that foot tasting?
Clara GF – you got me thinking about our resident Queen of Double Standards/Self Appointed
Morality Monitor & decided to do a little fact checking of my own!
Imagine my astonishment when I found our old gal has some sort of perverse fascination with my sex life!
Here’s a heaping helping of hypocrisy honey – make sure YOU finish the whole bowl!
Ironic that after 6 hours and 34 some posts later Feisty the instigator appears. Some of the posters defending her include some of those that 'float my boat'; and although I haven't been here as long as they have they are still some of my favorites.
I first came to First Read and enjoyed it; finally a progressive site with people able to comment about politics etc. However I was a bit discouraged and astonished at how some guy named Eric Salinas was allowed to slander, berate and ridicule the GOP. Others on "my side" cheered him on. Despite what I considered unliberal like behavior from some of the progressives, I decided to not only read FR but also to participate. My first post was to Pietro way back when.
I am not against witty banter and plays on words, slight playful digs on people etc. it would be rather dry without all of that. However, IMO, the personal negative attacks coming from our side do not need to be defended. Perhaps it is best to move on, let Fiesty address why she felt it necessary to speak that way. I think it gives the other side unneccessary ammunition.
I don't claim to be any more self righteous or better than any one else, nor do I believe to be naive about some tactics from GOP posters. I think that No Joe's brand of posting is extremely anti-Obama. That is her perogative and her freedom of speech. At times, I read to gain her perspective. For the most part other then her jabs I've noticed that she doesn't personally attack other posters.
Believe me there are worse from the GOP side like RVZ55, Ltdangle and others who predominantly taunt and bring nothing. Mr. Ben 6350, I'm also looking at you as well, you rightfully call out Fiesty but then personally spout out and show a lack of respective for fellow posters and our President.
Fiesty my house is not built out of glass. The City ordinance requires it to be 80% non combustible brick construction. It is one of those overreaching #$% regulations.
There you go, dawg, crowding up the high road.
Duly noted. I will still defend my friends. Especially from pious, stalking blowhards. and after today, I will try to do it with a little more GRACE and yay, even some dignity.
But darn it,...The low road, (through Miami, wink) was a bit more fun.
Yellowdog:
Good to see you around.
I agree with you that First Read should not be primarily be about personal attacks. The point of my original post was to say that it should also not be about whining about personal attacks.
It just seems to me that folks get a lot more inspired to talk about each other than the issues, and that is a shame. I would go so far as to say that many of our conservative and "independent" posters add very little in terms of proposals or solutions, and yet they bemoan the fact that they aren't getting more pats on the back. What would those pats be for exactly?
I guess I have just become a little jaded after years and years of folks really teeing off on our President, often time with lies.
To see these same folks become so incredibly sensitive when they begin to reap what they have sown really doesn't pull at my heart strings . . . maybe we can all strive to elevate our games, instead of just complaining about other folks.
But of course, I won't hold my breath! :o)
liked your post 3.36 yellowdog
Ladies, in my mind you two are good with me. I can always expect good insightful posts from you both.
American good to see you as well, I played off your post a bit about "coming here to understand the other side's ideas."
There you go, dawg, crowding up the high road.
Speaking of traffic, I'm off for the day to beat it.
Who is Jon Huntsman? Huntsman is a republican who, despite a couple of progressive views likely on the flip/flop block, has right-wing ideology that should satisfy some of the extreme right which dominates the Teapublican Party today. He has chosen the same venue Ronald Reagan chose to officially announce his candidacy--every republican must embrace their mythological hero, former President Reagan. What better way than with the Statue of Liberty as a backdrop. He sounds moderate, he is intelligent, he has an exotic foreign background but can he win the nomination? Yes, he can but in order to win the primary, he has already shifted his positions to the extreme far right; once there, it will be difficult to return to center.
Senate GOP Blockade. While listening to a report last evening that indicated by this time in the Clinton and Bush 43 administrations, 144 judicial nominees had been approved compared to 86 for President Obama, it became apparent once again that the Senate remains broken and dysfunctional. The blocking of Obama nominees is not just for federal judge positions, it is for nearly every person he nominates.
Peter Diamond, a Nobel economics prize winner whose expertise is the labor market and employment, nominated to serve on the Federal Reserve Board was successfully blocked by the GOP Senate to the point he withdrew. The GOP claimed he was not qualified. One would think that a Nobel prize for economics in labor market and employment would be the most qualified candidate in a time of high unemployment and a sluggish economy but the GOP declared Mr. Diamond "unqualified."
When one party decides to harass the other party's president by blocking and obstructing every action of that president, it becomes impossible for government to function properly. It is a blow to democracy and a slap in the face to the founding fathers who believed and established in the Constitution that the people, by majority vote, should rule not the minority. Whether one is right, left or no preference, it is time to demand better from our Senators and better from our Congress by letting Senators know that enough is enough, that we expect them to do the work our tax dollars pay them to do and that does not mean sitting on the sidelines by blocking and obstructing in the hopes they win the next election.
What happened to the republicans demand that every presidential nominee be given a fair hearing and an up or down vote? It seems, as with everything else, those rules only apply when a republican sits in the White House. The absurdity of this Senate GOP Blockade is that if a nominee is lucky enough to finally get an up or down vote, they pass unanimously or by a large majority.
The Senate is no longer a respected body of the legislature. The GOP has made a mockery of that idea the past two plus years. The country has huge problems to be solved yet they block and obstruct every action, every piece of legislation, every nominee. The GOP blocks not out of respect for the rules which give the minority a voice but out of desire for power. When one senator has the power to obstruct and block the other 99, there is something seriously wrong with our Government. What a sad statement for democracy of the people, by the people and for the people--our votes no longer matter when arcane rules allow the tyranny of the minority every opportunity to do nothing by virtue of blocking, obstructing and filibustering.
Great post, Jody. It is appalling to me how the Senate has allowed itself to be hamstrung by these archaic rules and practices such that the important work in our country isn't being done. And I know that each party is guilty of this---it is ugly bi-partisanship that fuels this dysfunction.
Jody, Good reporting on your part. I watched Rachel last night and she covered this fact well. We just need to vote as many Republicans out of office as possible. These Republicans are killing the progress.
Jody:
Great piece. One reason the GOP/TP will not approve any appointments is that they are hoping they get back into the white house so they can fill all those seats with Koch and Rove people.
It is all part of their Master Plan to take this country back - back to the 1930's and 1940's is where they want to go. That will destroy the very fabric of our country, period.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired..
You did it again. You wrote:
It is all part of their Master Plan to take this country back - back to the 1930's and 1940's is where they want to go. That will destroy the very fabric of our country, period.
Seriously dude, you need to get your head on straight. Before you and some other people start alleging the Republicans are NAZI'S, why don't you read up on who the Nazi's were and what they did. There isn't a Fuhrer here, unless you're declaring yourself him.
This is Constitutional Democracy with a multi-party system where political debate is encouraged and tolerated. Men have died to give us this freedom.
It's about a difference of opinion Navy, a difference of opinion and when you start calling the people who differ with you Nazi's you become one. What are you going to do next, burn Republican books and publications?
Sick, sick, sick.
No it isn't Woim. We are a Republic. The Founders knew that pure Democracy is anarchy, with no protection for minority rights.
Interesting opinion, Woim. Because I think the Republicans want to take us back to the early 20th century. When men worked 12 hour days, 7 days a week! Back to the days of company shacks, company scrip, company police and company stores. Back to the days when job safety was laughable and you worked at your own risk. Back to the days of child labor. What'll THAT do to the national fabric?
How is the myth of German supremacy all that different from 'American exceptionalism?'
When I hear Republicans saying they put more faith in corporations than in our elected government, that's when I shudder. I think it's the right-wings' elevating CEOs above governmental leaders, that makes one think of fascism. We watched Republicans open the nation's storehouse to private contractors during the Iraq War, which ended up costing us trillions in waste and fraud. On a local level, our current Teapublican governor just signed a budget that contains historic tax cuts while forcing teachers to pay more towards their retirement. Please note, the average Maine teacher retires on $19,000 a year and does not get Social Security. It really makes you question who Republican officials think they work for.
Woim, if Mike Godwin read this board, he'd see how wrong he was
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.10/godwin.if.html
Navy is usually the FIRST poster- and, in every sing one, he finds a way to work in the Nazi meme.
Insane. Truly, remarkably, insane.
The world according to conservatives has referred to President Obama as a fascist, socialist, Nazi, communist Kenyan for over two years but Woim becomes upset when US Navy describes exactly what the GOPTP is doing and compares it to what took place in the 1930's. Woim recognizes the truth in what Navy says; otherwise why would he/she be so upset by the suggestion of it.
Amy B. Portland, ME
How is the myth of German supremacy all that different from 'American exceptionalism?'
Lady, you really do need a history lesson. You're from Maine I see. How many concentration camps filled with non republicans, democrats, Muslims, Jews, gypsies do you see? Any more hate filled rants in Maine than on this board? We still have a Constitution, 3 branches of government and still a democracy? You can vote the bastards out anytime you want.
We're exceptional because we're Americans and we believe in freedom and diversity.
Auntie Fascist
Yes Auntie Fascist, it's in the Republican platform and the handbook they handout to new members. We want to repeal all child labor laws in the US.
I'll post a copy, ok?
Woim
As a matter of fact, within five months of gaining the majority in our state legislature and the governorship, Maine Republicans sought to lower the minimum wage for teenagers to $5.25. They were unsuccessful, due to a public outcry, but they did manage to increase and lengthen the number of hours teenagers are allowed to work. This, at a time when adults are looking for jobs. But hey, business wanted the cheap labor.
Amy,
(shhh, just not diversity of THOUGHT!) PS. Statistics about our international rankings would argue otherwise,...but I don't want to go and muddy someone else's fantasy.
Fascinating that every time USN draws the obvious parallels between GOPTP aspirations and unnamed authoritarian regimes the Conservatives here jump to a Nazi conclusion. There are authoritarians throughout history and around the world. Looking in the mirror USN provides must be very uncomfortable for our diehard Conservative defenders.
Woim, Mike Lee said earlier this year that child labor laws were unconstitutional. Rick Santorum has long opposed minimum wage laws. So, lose the sarcasm!!
Auntie Fascist..
Geez Auntie Fascist, that must mean that ALL the Republicans are going to vote to repeal all the child labor laws in America. I'm sure all the mommy's and daddies in the country are going to allow it, right?
newdayDAWNING10
No it isn't Woim. We are a Republic. The Founders knew that pure Democracy is anarchy, with no protection for minority rights.
Those protections for minorities would include the Three-Fifths Amendment, right?
Definition:constitutional democracy
- 1 dictionary result
Main Entry:
constitutional democracy
Part of Speech:
n
Definition:
a system of government based on popular sovereignty in which the structures, powers, and limits of government are set forth in a constitution
Usage:
politics
Dictionary.com's 21st Century Lexicon
Copyright © 2003-2011 Dictionary.com, LLC
Cite This Source
So you're wrong in both cases noted on your post.
Unless you're a muslim, or a socialist, or a woman, or a labor union member, or...
Jody of iowa — I look at obama as failing to grasp what the job discription of potus and the executive branch means. It means to be the leader, not one of continuing to drive wedges and denigrate the opposition. Even reagan and clinton knew how to work with the oppostion, why hasn't obama?
As the incumbant obama continues on his campaign to be re-elected in 2012 (doesn't he need to show us he is potus now?) the following link from 2010 is generically applicable to today with respect to leadership...
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/12/fineman-what-went-wrong-for-obama-and-the-dems.html?GT1=43002ml
Sorry, Woim: You are just wrong. The two terms are not interchangeable, and denote two different styles of government. A democracy derives power from the majority, with no protections to the minority. A Republic protects all, with power going to the individual.
Don't believe me? Let's hear from a Founder:
Ben Franklin was leaving the Constitutional Convention and was asked what form of government they had settled on. His response:
"A Republic, if you can keep it."
newdayDAWNING10,
You forgot about that three fifths thing.
Only had to fight a civil war to get that fixed.
You and Bachmann both got that wrong.
We are a republic and our form of government is a constitutional democracy.
Look it up or you can ask Feisty.
From Thomas Jefferson; you have heard of the man, have you not?
"Our preference to (the Republican) form of government has been so far justified by its success and the prosperity with which it has blessed us... Thomas Jefferson to the Virginia General Assembly.
And: "it is indeed of little consequence who governs us, if they sincerely and zealously cherish the principles of union and Republicanism." Jefferson to Henry Dearborn 1821.
Ding, dong you are wrong.
Unless you propose that you know more than the people who founded the country.
Looks like american #'s and Wo. I. M. have forgotten that very pledge they were so righteously intent on defending earlier:
...And to the Republic...
doh. It may have just been the american defending it,...no time to scroll up with the molasses bar thanks to the advertising.
Who is he, he's another multi millionaire GOPER, Mormon, whose going to claim to be just like you and me like all the rest of them do! Ask him when was the last time he went to the grocery store or filled up his tank? That will tell you who he is.
USNDVR - Your "cut and paste" essay makes a "presidential wannabe" sound like a bad thing. What do you think a former community activist amd law professor with two years experience as a Senator has done for our economy? Just check out his 65% approval ratings on 1/20/09 and his 47% approval ratings today. There may be a "message" from the American People in there somewhere just there was on 11/2/10.
Alwaysfaintfull,
You are a pure example of a Republican-Tea Bagger that doesn't know your facts. I advise you to read and study and get you facts in order, and not make up your own facts.
Your post above is a lie.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Illinois Senate career of Barack Obama stretched from 1997 (when Barack Obama was sworn in to his first term in the Illinois Senate) to 2004 (when he was elected to the United States Senate). Starting in 1993 and throughout his state senate career, Obama also taught constitutional law part-time at the University of Chicago Law School, as a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996 and as a Senior Lecturer from 1996–2004, when he was elected to the U.S. Senate."[1]
Taught Constitutional Law and will not comment on the constitutionality of the War Powers Act. What a laughable and ignorant turd that man is.
While President Obama’s History is still being written is will include the following;
1. Preventing a 2nd Great Depression TARP and the Stimulus did work
2. Passing Universal Health-care
3. Financial industry reform
4. Bringing the war in Iraqto an end
5. Passed legislation to curb greenhouse gases and improve the environment:
6. Nuclear non-proliferation agreement:
7. Repairing Our Image Abroad which is still a WIP
8. Lifted Bush restrictions on embryonic stem cell research:
9. Implemented education reforms
10. Created more jobs in 2 years plus than President Bush did in 8 years
11. Repealed the DADT
12. On May 1, 2011, 8 years to the day after “President Bush” declares “Mission Accomplished” in Afghan “Our President” really does “Accomplish the Mission” and “Bin Laden” is finally brought to justice. Later the UStook out the second in command.
WHAT HAS THE NEW GOP/TP DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS TO MOVE THIS COUNTRY FORWARD. TELL US WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SINCE PRESIDENT OBAMA TOOK OFFICE TO HELP THIS COUNTRY. ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS BE THE "OBSTRUCTIONISTS" THAT YOU ARE. OVER 400 BILLSSTALLED IN THE SENATE, BLOCKING PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENTS, THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE DONE FOR 2+ YEARS AND THEN CLAIM PRESIDENT OBAMA IS DOING NOTHING. WRONG IT IS THE NEW GOP/TP THAT IS DOING NOTHING AND BLAMING PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR THEIR OWN OBSTRUCTIONISM.
The Republicans haven't done a damn thing except block progress.
Ben,
Before speaking, get your facts please.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired..
I didn't understand your last post.
Could you translate it from the German mein Fuhrer?
Job1 - Your assuming a great deal here and it's obvious to all. Before you lecture everyone on their facts, you may want to check out the fact that Obama spent half of his Senatorial 4 year career preparing his Presidential campaign and with 19 votes and counting on my comment (see top of page), more people her on this DEM & LIBBER Board obviously believe me (simply because they know it is true) more than they believe you!
"2. Passing Universal Health-care"
I wish. The HCA passed was FAR from Universal health care.
@Woim -- She also deleted Afghanistan from his posting on ending the Iraq war. You can tell because she did not hit the space bar LOL. Most of those so-called accomplishments, I deem as disasters and history will prove me correct. If it wasn't for the blocking tactics of the right, this country would be in worse shape.
Always,
Sorry, those are your facts. Which means no facts that checked out.
Umm, Navy? About number ten. . .
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12000000?output_view=net_1mth
So, when we add the positive numbers, and subtract the negative, from January of 01 to December of 08, we see net POSITVE jobs created to the tune of 5710 K.
Do the same for January of 09 to May of 11, and you get NEGATIVE job creation of 3742 K.
I realize you want to bolster Obama any way you can, but the facts are what the facts are.
Can he create jobs? No, He Can't.
But WORM you already understand German so well, you speak it here every day with your rants and ideology. I understand how you do not like to be exposed for what you really are, too bad, if you do not like it then change your ideology.
You can attack me all day, I find it funny.
The point is much of what the new GOP/TP wants to do is right out of Europe. All people have to do is look and what laws you are proposing, what Laws you have passed and let us not forget the 400+ you guys stalled in the Senate.
You guys are anti gay, anti women's rights, anti union, anti medicare, anti medicaid, anti Social Security, anti education, anti science, anti Social Programs and the list goes on. The GOP/TP is on a massive drive to increase the power and wealth of a very select few and taking money from the rest of us to pay for it. Look at what to other ideologies are against and the resemblance is striking. You guys think the Country should be run by the Big Corporations and you are doing everything you can to disenfranchise voters in many states falsely claiming a major voter fraud issue, that does not exist, and put additional road blocks in the way of citizens that just happen to vote a way contrary to the GOP/TP.
No, the handwriting is on the wall and all the BS you guys keep posting is not going to change the path you are trying to put us on. We see you for what you are and many of us do not like it very much. You no longer stand for the American People, you have turned your back on us in favor of Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionairs/Billionaies. Those are facts an you have yet to prove them wrong. People are connecting the dots and they are not happy. Just look at all the rallies and recall votes, the people do not like your power and wealth grabbing ideas.
No, I stand by my opinion. The GOP/TP has adopted many of the failed ideologies of fascism/despotism and oligarchy. They did not work way back then and they will not work now.
Either get off your whinny butts and start helping this country instead of obstructing everything or move on. Right now you guys are the problem and you know it and still refuse to help, hoping this will put you into the White House.
I see one of our regulars here would like to once again bring attention to the FACT that the GW Bush administration had an abysmal growth rate in jobs, with population increasing FAR FASTER than jobs in the workforce. When the Bush Recession began in 2007 it became the first time since the Great Depression that the median income failed to recover in an expansion to a level higher than during the previous expansion.
Of course, the goal of the GOPTP is to decrease the income of the American worker anyway, so to Conservatives that's success.
And still US navy continues down the path of death and destruction to America by spouting off with his misdirection. Seem to recall another party from the 20's and 30's using the same lame arguments that navy spouts off with. Our parents and grandparents paid a heck of a price for allowing those policies to florish then, just as we and our children will have to if we follow navy's inane policies today.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
The point is much of what the new GOP/TP wants to do is right out of Europe.
Still clinging to that GOP=Nazi mentality, huh.
Lets see, did all the laws that were passed in the last 10 years passed by Republicans alone? Nope, Democrats too, lots of them. For funding and authorizing 2 wars and now Libya. Who extended the Bush Tax cuts, that would be Obama. Universal Healthcare with a mandate, who caved, Obama.
I could go on with 55 different promises he made or comprised on but just check PoliFact.com, no need to bore everyone with the list.
You don't think Obama is not going to overhaul Medicare? He already said he was cause it doesn't work. It will run out of money. You say tax the rich. Is ay he extended the Bush Tax cuts. So much for taxing the rich.
The bail outs, all that big to fail stuff that supported corporate America. Obama.
Bail out GM and Chrysler. Big CORPORATE bailout. Obama.
Relief for the middle class in terms like ending income tax for seniors making under $50,000. Promise broken.
Free Choice Act, promise broken.
Foreclosure prevention fund. Promise broken.
I could go on and on but no need.
You don't see these as his failures. Only the Republicans are to blame and because of that we are Nazi's and traitors.
You wrote:
We saw this very same ideology in Europe decades ago where they tried to destroy a race (“CLASS”) of people. The GOP/TP is doing the very same thing here. Show me the difference, as the net result will be the same. That road has been traveled before and it was paved with bodies, do we really want to go down it again????"
The people taking this country down the road to ruin are people like you who fail to hear the other sides arguments and are willing to compromise to get things done.
It's so much easier to call a whole party Nazi's when the fault lies in the Democratic party and it's leaders and the President.
It's the failure of this President to lead.
Stop the name calling and hateful speech.
Our Conservative friends are at it again. USN makes a great case for showing the authoritarian leanings of the GOPTP. It could have been any authoritarians from the period. The last vestiges of old aristocracies trying to hold on through suppression of democratic movements. Dictatorships in Spain, or Italy, or elsewhere in Europe. The Stalinists of the Soviet Union.
FR Conservatives don't try to disprove the allegations, nor present their own alternative point of view. Instead they go DIRECTLY to the most hated, destructive, radioactive government in our collective memory in an attempt to stifle dissenting opinion. Their overreaction is telling.
John B, Des Moines, IA,
Either you're reading comprehension challenged or just want to avoid the post, I answered Navy at 6.15
My reaction would be the same as your if the republicans started calling the Democratic programs socialistic or a form of Communism.
Social this and that....
You mean the post where you IMMEDIATELY went to the "Nazi" card, then went on the attack against Barack Obama without making any effort to defend the party of the "Unitary Executive"?
John B, Des Moines, IA,
You mean where I explain that it's not just the Republicans who, over the last 2 1/2 years are responsible for the problems we're in.
IR and Navy cited several topics which I addressed.
You have a problem with what I wrote or feel that it is incorrect, please correct me.
If not, stop the name calling crap and post a rebuttal.
Actually Woim, you've done nothing except try to inflame the conversation by crying "Nazi" and attempt to deflect from the original points made by USN. As a reminder the text read as follows. I've edited to just the parts that Conservatives haven't seen fit to address...it's still a very sizable post.
Seems you edited out all the references to the Nazi's. Nice.
I addressed most of the rest of that comment in my post.
Still, you haven't told me what you disagree with. Were my facts incorrect? Did not the Democrats vote for and extend the wars? Did not Obama extend the Bush Tax cuts? Is Obama still in Libya at what cost? Are the campaign promises and the rest not incorrect?
You can't ask for more spending when there's no money and you can't ask to tax the rich when the President extended the tax cuts for 2 years. You can't say cut defense when the President has delayed removing the troops inserted for the surge and extended the minimum time in Afghanistan from 2011 to 2014. You can't say keep Medicare the way it is when the President and the Vice President have both said that it needs to be fixed or it will go broke.
You can't ask for more when there's less and when the precious dollars we do have are being wasted on 3 wars and bailouts that produced virtually no jobs. The summer of recovery did not happen. Shovel ready jobs are a joke and have been abandoned. There is no bite to the words.
Where are the Democrats in all of this? A budget, a jobs plan, the wars? Nothing from them and yet for every plan that the Republicans do put out, good or bad, they get criticized. Where is the Democratic plan?
Republicans are not traitors or Nazi's. They want what's best for this country also. They just want to go about it a different way, a way you don't agree with. You disagree, then vote the bastards out in 2012. Write your Congress-person. This comparison to Nazi Germany serves no purpose and is so absurdly incorrect that I can't believe you or anyone here could defend it.
Again, stop the name calling and hate talk and work on a plan to save the country from economic disaster.
JohnB - interesting that you don't recognize the parrallels you and navy's arguments are with respect to how the national socialists worked their magic in the 1920's and 30's. Pick the strongest opponent and use misdirection and lies about their intent so to minimize their message. Once discredited move onto the next group, then the next until no one is left to stand up and oppose your ideology.
Your tactics didn't work over the long term back then and they surely won't work now.
Thanks for playing.
First of all, Navy didn't even mention Nazi's, or Hitler, or Germany, and his geographic and time description covers a wide variety of authoritarian activities. For some reason Conservatives here want nothing more than to play the victim and whine like little kids about being compared to Nazis to avoid defending the Unitary Executive, the black prison system, warrantless wiretapping, painting anyone who disagreed with the Bush Administration as a traitor, and a variety of other authoritarian activities originated during those years.
Oh, and don't waste your time talking about the fact that the Patriot Act has been renewed. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now. Congress needs to grow a backbone and refuse to renew, but it created so many issues everyone is afraid of the discussion that would surround that.
Secondly, I left out the authoritarian (NOT Nazi) references because that's all anyone wants to talk about. When you read 6.20 it isn't hard to figure out why.
Thirdly, american steps forward to once again spread the Conservative lie that Liberals are ideologically connected to the original Nazis, spread most famously by noted liar Jonah Goldberg. First of all, you nee to decide what smear you want to use against Liberals--Nazis or Socialists. They are NOT the same thing. I can continue to beat you up about this if you insist, but for the moment I'll only comment that Hitler killed THOUSANDS of Socialists as enemies of the Reich.
Furthermore Nazi sympathizers tended to be from the wealthy and industrialist classes. It's probably a good thing the Duke of Windsor abdicated his throne because he was a Nazi Sympathizer. So was Charles Lindbergh. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/lindbergh/sfeature/fallen.html
Benito Mussolini said
“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
and certainly the industrialists of America understood this, which is why many of them were also among the Nazi sympathizers. American big money interests invested heavily in German industry before WWII. Fascism is a radical, authoritarian expression of Conservatism. Conservatives of the 20s and 30s understood that. Apparently Conservative leaders of today understand it even though they pretend to not. Take Glenn Beck for example, and his promotion of American Nazi sympathizer Elizabeth Dilling;
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/now-glenn-beck-loves-american-nazis
So the typical first read losers are in here spouting cut and past leftist talking points again. I have got more collapsed comments on this page than those that are worth reading. Huntsman is not going to be the GOP candidate. Don't know why he is bothering to run other than his father has boatloads of money and he can afford to waste it. Doesn't say much for 1 Term 0bama that someone from his regime is running against him. Then again - nothing could make 1 Term look good!
John B, Des Moines, IA,
So in my 2 posts, all you can come back with is a cut and paste and some really off-the-topic remarks that don't relate to my comments. Cool.
Hey dude, wanna answer any of my questions or address my specific comments about Obama policy?
Thought not. So lame. So sad.
Wait, you can wait for Navy to post again, or Feisty or check Think Progress to see what they have to say.
Fresh Kool Aid in the refrigerator. Have at it.
Pathetic.
I have no intention of answering your questions, because you only CLAIMED to be responding to USN's post. I won't fall for your deflection--see how that works?
Johnb - rather typical of you to lamely try to expand the discussion way beyond the original point. Some may even refer to you as trying to use a strawman argument.
We get it, you and navy want a single party system. You don't want any dissension in the ranks. You want what you think to be the law of the land. To think that you were so foolish once to think that kennedy's quotation of " Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" applied solely to the left.
Yes we get it johnb, your type will always want to play the arrogant bully.
Woim - good luck on getting johnb to answer specific questions, his master keeps too tight a reign on his ability to have independent thought. Bet if you offered him a cracker though, he could say "johnny wants the cracker"
That's "american", always speaking for others.
I do NOT want a single party system--that's for Karl Rove and his "permanent Republican majority" and GOPTP attacks on unions in an attempt to cripple funding for Democrats, as well as the Citizens United scheme of legalized corporate bribery. Conservatives are masters of projection--always accuse the opponent of what you're doing.
In fact what I want is two HEALTHY parties. We NEED the Republican party of Dwight Eisenhower, Nelson Rockefeller, Robert D Ray, Gerald Ford, heck, even Barry Goldwater to return. These were people who understood that fiscal conservatism and cautious government needn't involve stealing from the middle class and leaving the poor to die in the streets. They understood, in fact, that the strength of America REQUIRED a healthy middle class. They were grateful for and served the UNITED STATES, not the wealthy elites.
They've been replaced by the crazy philosophy of the John Birch Society, a strain of radical Conservatism rejected by sane people like Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley. I want 2 strong parties, it's a tradition which has served America well. The current Conservative movement doesn't fit that mold...it's a dangerous anomaly in the American tradition rather than a true opposition party.
OMG, I can't stop laughing. John B is an arrogant bully? Oh, man! That is funny on so many levels.
Perhaps YOU are the bully for demanding that he answer to YOUR whim? Nahh, that can't have any merit! John B is a Democrat, ergo he MUST be a bully.
I wonder if he's a Union Thug, too?
Where is the "with it before I was against it" media when it comes to the Republican Party:
individual health insurance mandate
indefinite war
running up the deficit
outsourcing of jobs
cap and trade
infrastructure investments
democracy in the middle east
These are all things that the Republican Party was "for" before they are now magically against. We are reaping the wreckless harvest of implementing the Republican vision for America . . . "corporations first".
Interesting how the Republican Party can change everything they have represented over the past 50 years as soon as President Obama is sworn in and the media doesn't say a word. It is almost as if you all are employed by the same folks or something . . . things that make you go hmmmmm.
Interesting thing, politics. One can tie up a package with so much wrong and throw in so little that is right to entice the other side to agree to its passage. Yet point to the little thing that was right and ask why the package wasn't approved. Works whether R or L.
It does say a lot about how bills are written today.
So.....Jon Huntsman is "optimistic", "non-confrontational", and says things like "I don't think you need to run down anyone's reputation to run for president,” and "I respect the president" and he thinks being fluent in something besides English is actually a good thing.
Somebody see if we've got another jar of blueberry jam on the shelf, 'cause between Gingrich, Santorum, Pawlenty, and now Huntsman, there seems to be an awful lot of TOAST on the table this morning.
Good to see you posting, JoAnne. By saying he "respects the President", Huntsman may appeal to the center but it is hard to see the far right of his party liking that. Maybe that comedian who made racist jokes about the President in New Orleans can do a bit where he speaks Mandarin.
Good one, JoAnne PA.
I caught a bit of Huntsman's announcement this morning. He waxed nostalgic for "compassion" without flitching as he said the word. Perhaps the press can ask him a "gotcha" question about what compassion the GOP has shown recently as they systematically cut food and health care funding for poor children, as they cut education, as they fought against unemployment benefits and food stamps for Americans who struggle just to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads.
Thanks, SF and Jody. Speaking of the far right.....there was an Op-Ed in the local paper over the weekend written by a spokesman for the local Tea Party organization as an open letter to our Senate Majority Leader. In it, they complained about being "patronized" and told Senator Pileggi that "Despite your belief that there is little support for these issues, is it not your job to propose legislation that is good for the commonwealth?", went on to call for teacher furloughs and making PA a right-to-work state, eliminating "unfunded mandates", "freedom from Obamacare" and eliminating voter fraud (without any evidence at all that any exisits here), and finally, finished up with this not-so-veiled threat:
"It would be gratifying to see those we worked so hard to get elected inititate work product that is good for their constituents and not for their re-elections. We hope our time, efforts, and money expended will not have been spent unwisely. If so, it will not happen again".
So, what's wrong with this picture? Well, just one tiny little detail. The threat is aimed at our current Republican-controlled House, Republican-controlled Senate, and Republican Governor. Basically, Republicans in PA - as I'm sure they are elsewhere - are now eating their own, and they seem to have a voracious appetite.
And all I can say to that is.....anyone want seconds?
Joanne - advocating that Americans give up their right to petition government? Surely you don't agree with everything that an elected official does, do you?
Joanne advocated nothing of the sort. She said the Conservative Movement is so radical and extreme that even electable REPUBLICANS aren't extreme enough to suit their tastes. They are far, far to the fringe.
american -
Of course not - to both questions. I've written to and e-mailed elected officials in the past from both parties to express my views - it's not just a right, it's a responsibility. My point (which apparently wasn't one of my clearer efforts, for which I apologize) was that here in my neck of the woods, the Tea Party appears to already be so disappointed with the GOP's failure to acquiesce to their demands that we seem to be edging ever closer to having actual third party candidates on the ballot in 2012. As splitting the vote would benefit the Democrats, I personally have no problem with that. But the OpEd in question seemed to be demanding that elected officials disregard what the majority of their constituents apparently do not support in favor of what the more vocal minority seems to feel is right, and that, I'm afraid, I do have a problem with.
Oh, and to quote the late great Leslie Neilsen, don't call me Shirley! :)
P.S. to John B - Thanks - you can speak for me any time!
johnb - better to learn political lessons sooner than latter
"Who is John Huntsman?"
I'm laughing..........I'm laughing some more.....
Actually, who in the hell is Barack Obama?????
Bernie - Barck obama is potus and unlike past potus's he has shown us how to lead from behaind as in libya and how to continue to campaign for potus. Guess someone needs to remind him he won the election in 2008. Perhaps sacha should remind him.
1 Term 0bama has Jimmy Carter jumping up and down that he is now longer the worst POTUS ever. Leading from behind - this guy couldn't lead a cub scout troop. ha, ha
Who is John Huntsman?
Answer: A republican liberal (RINO). Nothing more. He is wasting his time and money.
The only thing U.S. Navy said that is true is that Huntsman can not get away from Obama.
You libtards that think the republican's only want to keep you from voting and take away your rights, SHOW ME SOME PROOF!
And don't show me a liberal republican like McCain or Huntsman or the likes.
Thanks for proving that a competent candidate who poses a substantial threat has no chance in hell of surviving the Republican nomination circular firing squad!
Obama Lite is who he is
At last.
Huntsman is a candidate who has demonstrated his humanity, his intelligence, his morality, and his integrity in dealing with the largest foreign power in the world.
John Huintsman is everything Obama will never be. Obama is an empty suit, teleprompter trooper, and nothing more.
 I see the FR libs are out in force today. I do so wonder why they haven't been clamoring for obama to tell us where the jobs are. Maybe, even why obama thinks he is above the war powers act? I would have thought that he would have embraced getting congress behind him on our military actions in libya and yemen.
Interesting blurb reported yesterday on some saudi women asking hillary for help in promoting womens rights to drive a vehicle in saudi arabia. Maybe womens rights aren't on obama and companies agenda?
And I see the FR conservatives are out in force today, too! That's good because it would be boring if only one side could express ideas.
thank you jody. I did notice last year when I started posting on FR that there was a distinct lack of viewpoints from the right. Just hoping to maintain balance.
Now if only FR would change their posting format. I see that scrolling has again become a drag.
bernie-1722829, who in the hell are any of them? Say one thing, do another . . . . Although a Democrat, I would be open to voting for any candidate who could prove to the American people that he/she has what it takes to actually back up campaign promises and rhetoric. The Republicans, so far, haven't done a thing about those jobs they talked so loudly about in November. None of the R-candidates are overly impressive, even amongst their own party leaders and members. Frankly, we should all be greatly concerned about where this country is, will be, and who will be leading us further down the road to ruin.
I would imagine that you had much the same opinion in 2007 when potential candidates lined up on either side. Nothing new and completely understandable. Looks like we will have to wait and see what happens after the nominating conventions in 2012. No one has tripped my trigger yet either, L or R.
I guess it's refreshing, to most on here, that Obama, and the Democrats, are the only people that tell the truth and care about the country. (barfing noise in the background)
Gov. Huntsman has indeed led a charmed life. Money was apparently never a problem or consideration in his career choices. He was well connected, and got high-level government jobs under Reagan and the two Presidents Bush. In down time, he was named CEO of the family business. Two things I will be interested to hear about: 1) I have heard that he is "fluent" in Mandarin because he spent two years as a Mormon missionary in Taiwan. How "fluent" is he? Chinese is a difficult language for non-Chinese to navigate, and if he really is "fluent" it would seem that linguistics is one of his strengths. Does he know any Spanish? Portuguese? or any other language? 2) What is his ambition? There is nothing about him that seems competitive; he has the appearance of someone who hasn't faced many obstacles in life. Is he running because he wants to, or because people in the GOP want him to "serve" their interests?
Nicely said, Kate. Good questions plus your last sentence really hits the mark.
kate - intriguing thoughts, but begs the question on if the jr senator from illinois ran because he wanted to or the DNC wanted him to serve THEIR agenda?
Perhaps googling huntsman would answer your linguistics questions.
Well, today was first impression day. So his campaign people painted the classic picture. Walking in a park, hand in hand with his wife, with the grown children, spouses, infant grandchildren in tow behind them, arm in arm, like they're going to church. Then the close-up. Mature, a little gray on the sides, don't forget the blue tie. Got to stay close to you're voting base. He's a prior governor of Utah, which means he walks a straight and very narrow path among the religious right, or he wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting elected in Utah. He's certainly not the first choice among the Mormons. That's Romney. But maybe there's a little hope, if Mitt gets the nod, that he might get picked as a VP candidate. Let's just hope that people who seriously go to church on Sunday in the GOP can see past the straight party line and find a guy or gal who is qualified to solve the Bush-Cheney nightmare, and not just make sure the Feds aren't paying for abortions (they never have yet) or let them queer people get married, etc. There's more to being an American than getting up on Sunday morning and trying to live your day looking like a Norman Rockwell painting.
Well said, mikemather. Optics, it's all about the optics.
Mikemather - bush cheney nightmare?? So sorry that you feel that obama wasn't up to the task, must be all that campaigning he has been doing since nov 2010 keeping him from finding a solution..
Church going is hardly an endorsement for governing ability. Remember, separation of church and state? At least publicly.
Job1 - Before you lecture everyone on their facts, you may want to check out the fact that Obama spent half of his Senatorial 4 year career preparing his Presidential campaign and with 19 votes and counting on my comment (see top of page), more people her on this DEM & LIBBER Board obviously believe me (simply because they know it is true) more than they believe you!
and yet, ALWAYS, then Senator Obama still managed to make it back to DC to cast more than six times as many votes as McCain. Were they not BOTH Senators with an obligation to represent? When it comes to multi-tasking, President Obama is a master. McCain SUSPENDED his campaign to rush back and muck the progress. Don't take my word for that,...read Too Big To Fail,...
Clara - McCain who? Was that before or after "The Summer of Recovery 2010"? - Feisty - Yeah we all miss Keith Olbermann too.......I wonder which Democratic campaigns (besides Obama's of course) 'ol Keith will be contributing to this go round while attempting to convey an image of being a "professional" and therefore "impartial" journalist of sorts before he gets suspended off the air again.
Unless he is an independant I do not want to hear about it, like I have said in earlier posts either party plans to change zero, now I am not saying it should be Ron Paul but not a Dem or Repub, Keep sending jobs oversea and supporting unions and just wait and see what happens, you think we have problems now you aint seen nothin yet.
Change happens from the bottom up and that means voters must demand the change. While we changed Presidents to one with a vision to move the country into the new century, too many in Congress remain stuck in the last century and do not listen to their constituents. How else can one explain the GOP ignoring the voters on medicare and going full steam ahead to fulfill their ideological dream to end it?
What is tiresome is the continuing demonization of unions as the root of our problems when it is just not true--the root of our problems is corporate greed at the CEO level. There was a time when CEO pay was reasonable, now it is a multi-million dollar game of keeping wages low for workers while taking every dime they can for themselves--and then blaming the workers for low profits and shipping jobs overseas.
jody - private sector unions are one thing public sector unions are another. The private sector has to compete favorably with other private sector businesses.
Who does the public sector unions compete with? You don't really think that the non union taxpayers will just continually roll over and pay ever increasing taxes and fees to support public union members retirements and healthcare benefits do you? Talk about an ever increasing gap between the haves and have nots!
No doubt very few execs deserve what they are paid, I would imagine that the same could be said about the union leadership as well.
Then again how does one attract talent if not thru pay and options?
Great use of the "divide and conquer" strategy, but it doesn't fly. Public sector workers don't exist in a vacuum. There's plenty of data to compare public employee wages and benefits to teachers in private schools, people who drive dump trucks or run backhoes for private companies, and IT workers in private-sector companies.
It's just part of a strategy to demonize members of public unions. Conservative leaders are on record stating this is part of their goal to destroy funding for the Democratic party so they can become the ONE viable political party.
The war on the middle class has many fronts.
johnb - Wow johnb...divide and conquer?? Not sure where you draw that conclusion from?
Looks like you want to have the taxpayers not have a say in whether they want union or non-union workers to fulfill government services to the them.. In times of plenty these issues would probably not be a concern. When things are tight, they do start to matter. Do you believe that joe average isn't going to question the need to keep on paying more out for government services with a diminishing return?
Really johnb, the government (R or L) has for years been adding to the US public debt. Sooner or later someone has to pay the piper. Perhaps you think that some foreign nation will bail us out or the printing presses will go into overdrive? Maybe you think they will forgive us the principle and interest on the loan they made us?
thanks for playing.
Ameican,
Just retired 13 months ago from my Public sector job after 21 years of service. My pay was really great. My benefits were super. My pension is wonderful. No debts, plenty of money to travel and live large. New vehicles. Vacation home in the mountains. Too bad those poor folks that helped pay my huge paychecks don't get all the goodies I got and am continuing to get. Yeah, well, that's just too bad.
By the way. I always shop at Wallmart....always.
No way, if he failed to our gracious President as his Ambassador to China, what the American people could expect from him?
i agree with questioning removal of postings.
So do I as long at they are political and not personal attacks.
The whining is about a personal attack.
There is a distinction.
Why were these posts collapsed. I thought you folks at FR encouraged freedom of political expression.
So much for free political debate FR.
Seems Ben upset some people today with his post. Agree or disagree he is free to post political views same as everyone else.
Ben-636050 Comment collapsed by the community
One of the biggest liars on the internet is the Think Progress group – and thus any one who chooses to use Think Progress as their point of reference are also liars, frauds, deceivers and low-lifes.
In research I discovered what a radical, socialist organization Think Progress is and there is no need to comment on its radical views and claims. It has NO CREDIBILITY! So as some like to say on here – Game Over. End of Story.
I also discovered something else yesterday in a late-in-the-day reply to a comment I made yesterday that US Navy Disabled – Retired is a female. No man responds using those words unless he was the one intentionally dropping the soap in the showers – nothing wrong with that LOL. It’s probably just a coincidence but USNDR sounded a lot like the other female-name posters on here.
“Astroturf” is one of those common refrains used by the left when they want desperately for opposing views to be discredited. The George Soros funded mouthpiece non-ironically lobbied just that charge at a new, anti-net neutrality website called NoNetBrutality.com this week.
Think Progress claimed the website was part of a “secret plan to attack net neutrality.” CNET News showed otherwise:
On its Think Progress blog, the liberal advocacy group announced it had “obtained” a PowerPoint document “which reveals how the telecom industry is orchestrating the latest campaign against Net neutrality” through a pseudo-grassroots effort. The story was echoed on Slashdot, Boing Boing, and innumerable pro-regulation blogs.
There’s just one problem with Think Progress’ claim: It’s not, well, accurate.
In a case of truth being stranger than astroturf, it turns out that the PowerPoint document was prepared as a class project for a competition in Florida last month. It cost the six students a grand total of $173.95, including $18 for clip art.
And just how secret was this nefarious plot?
Not only was the PowerPoint document presentation no secret, but it was posted publicly on the competition’s blog, along with an audio recording of the event in Miami where the student contestants presented their ideas to the judges.
The online liberal echo-chamber then picked up the false story and ran with it.
Big government regulation supporters also descended upon the social media promotion efforts of NoNetBrutality with some brutality of their own. They declared everyone who doesn’t want government involved in regulating internet speech to be “corporate shills” and otherwise engaged in ad hominem attacks. One emailer to the website even suggested that it was surprising anyone supporting “such obvious transparent moral poverty” wouldn’t want to cut their throat any time they looked in the mirror. These guys really take their government regulation seriously.
Kristen McMurray, one of the six creators of the site, knows that all too well and wasn’t surprised by the pro-regulation tactics. “Labeling me a ‘corporate shill’ avoids any real debate on net neutrality,” she said, “so I’m not surprised it degenerated into name calling.” McMurray added, “Think Progress should have practiced good journalism and fact checked before reporting on our school project.” As the social media arm of an organization that claims to want to “shape the national debate,” Think Progress has a responsibility to ensure that it does so in an accurate and honest manner. It seems like good journalism, honest debate and big government advocacy just don’t go together.
The last sentence here goes to the core of the leftist, socialist radicals on this blog. They are liars like Think Progress whose so-called investigations are not based on facts and research. Proof above.
Think Progress is funded by this world’s worst anti-Christ George Soros – aka Spooky Dude. Everything idiots on here claim the Koch Brothers are, this piece of crap George Soros is trilpe in spades. It is a Shadow Party Project of this low life, another low-life John Podesta and the Center for American Progress.
SUMMARY:
A Soros-Podesta (Shadow Party) Project
Think Progress is a “project” of the American Progress Action Fund (APAF), a “sister advocacy organization” of the left Center for American Progress (CAP) and CAP’s entities such as Campus Progress. It also draws freely on the resources and misrepresentations of the Soros-funded, Brock-edited Media Matters attack site.
Think Progress, an internet blog that “pushes back, daily,” by its own account against its conservative targets, and supports the Soros-Podesta American Progress Acition Fund agenda: to transform “progressive ideas into policy through rapid response communications, legislative action, grassroots organizing and advocacy, and partnerships with other progressive leaders throughout the country and the world.”
APAF describes itself as &ldq
WOIM - You just lost all credibility as a serious poster with your obnoxious anti-gay slur, and your thinly veiled sarcastric comment of male superiority over women. You have exposed your true bigoted self and I suspect the only folks who will take you seriously now will be your skin-head Nazi movement peeps.
RedDevPS,
Anti gay or woman slur? Where?
I re-posted Ben-636050 Comment which was collapsed by the community.
Again, where did I make an anti gay or anti feminist post?
Red dev - guess you fit into that category as well.
Really, RedDevPS
Don't shoot the 'messenger' that wants to make sure nobody misses the anti-gay commentary that at least five people found offensive,...
It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
Clara,
I find the posts distasteful and offensive also but if you want a free political forum this is what you get. Let's see who the bigots and racists, etc., are and expose them for all of FR to see.
These are the new rules as I understand them. So be it.
The view on Hunntsman is this "Let's youand he fight". That's the media story, and that's the ONLY reasontheyplug Huntsman. He was a one term Jimmy Carter type governor who did all the right things. Pro-life,pro guns..pro whatever the latest Republican icream toy of the mothn is...And he's rich..not Donald Trump or Mitt Romeny... who hails from old money. Romney rides on his dad's reputation alot. Salt lake city for cleaning up the Olypics mess..beyond that what?
Romney won't even defend his own health care plan-except to say he signed it. There's no defense of covering pre-existing conditions-or much else.. He now takes the position that his helth care is more important than yours. And that's the input of his limited defense-repeal Obama care, he says.
Replace it with what? Nothing.
If Mitt head is so smart-where's his modified alternative? Isn't one and there won't be one. The Republcans don't want heath care period. Think T-Paws will be better? Bad news there-T-Paws twice cut low income single people off health care in Minnesota-30,000 people. Yet T-Paws could sign a bill that allowed raisng state stale taxes to buiild a stadium for Minnesota Twins owner Carl Poland who graced the Fortune 500.
That may be good for a couple of votes in Loiusville where the bats are made. But what he has said is this your health if you are unemployed doesn't count. No matter how sick you get-we don't care.
That's Pawlenty'sd "compassioate Conservatism"
MIchelle Bachman is eve worse..She voted against SChips" the Children's health Plan" She claims she's "prolife" but actually she's pro-birth. Life is what happens after birth. And from minimum wages to covering children from moment of birth-she's against it. She votes against pollution laws, against toy saftey-thing to make life better. She's pro birth-but agaist life-because life is what happens after birth.
Huntsman, a RINO is a Romney "Light". He might look good sitting in the dugout but when he steps up to the plate he will not take the bat off of his shoulders.
Exactly..........Who is Jon Huntsman?
Well Please Allow Me.....JH is just another Corporate Balloon CLOWN Now Being Sent Aloft (after in a vain attempt by the Mitt Clown Crashed again) to Distract the America Voter from the real GOP Front Runner Dr Ron Paul!
Who BTW Won Again This Weekend at the RLC making it 5 for 5 in 2011 .....
NBC'S Response? Another Hatchet Job from Matt Liar claiming even more Nonsense from the GE / FOX Paid For and Sponsored Lying Poll as the Truth. A Poll that 2010 consistently proved to be wrong and yet THEM & THEM still Pay for a New One every time the Corporations need a Hatchet Job Done!
NBC / Wall Street Journal (GE/FOX)....who are they to Disenfranchise Millions of American Voters?
Well just remember Word Of Mouth & YOU is all that is important to US!
Vote For Ron Paul & Ralph Nader and their Supporters in 2012........NOT NBC / Wall Street Journal and these Corporate Sponsored Clowns!!
Sorry, cut off.
Ben-636050 Comment collapsed by the community
One of the biggest liars on the internet is the Think Progress group – and thus any one who chooses to use Think Progress as their point of reference are also liars, frauds, deceivers and low-lifes.
In research I discovered what a radical, socialist organization Think Progress is and there is no need to comment on its radical views and claims. It has NO CREDIBILITY! So as some like to say on here – Game Over. End of Story.
I also discovered something else yesterday in a late-in-the-day reply to a comment I made yesterday that US Navy Disabled – Retired is a female. No man responds using those words unless he was the one intentionally dropping the soap in the showers – nothing wrong with that LOL. It’s probably just a coincidence but USNDR sounded a lot like the other female-name posters on here.
“Astroturf” is one of those common refrains used by the left when they want desperately for opposing views to be discredited. The George Soros funded mouthpiece non-ironically lobbied just that charge at a new, anti-net neutrality website called NoNetBrutality.com this week.
Think Progress claimed the website was part of a “secret plan to attack net neutrality.” CNET News showed otherwise:
On its Think Progress blog, the liberal advocacy group announced it had “obtained” a PowerPoint document “which reveals how the telecom industry is orchestrating the latest campaign against Net neutrality” through a pseudo-grassroots effort. The story was echoed on Slashdot, Boing Boing, and innumerable pro-regulation blogs.
There’s just one problem with Think Progress’ claim: It’s not, well, accurate.
In a case of truth being stranger than astroturf, it turns out that the PowerPoint document was prepared as a class project for a competition in Florida last month. It cost the six students a grand total of $173.95, including $18 for clip art.
And just how secret was this nefarious plot?
Not only was the PowerPoint document presentation no secret, but it was posted publicly on the competition’s blog, along with an audio recording of the event in Miami where the student contestants presented their ideas to the judges.
The online liberal echo-chamber then picked up the false story and ran with it.
Big government regulation supporters also descended upon the social media promotion efforts of NoNetBrutality with some brutality of their own. They declared everyone who doesn’t want government involved in regulating internet speech to be “corporate shills” and otherwise engaged in ad hominem attacks. One emailer to the website even suggested that it was surprising anyone supporting “such obvious transparent moral poverty” wouldn’t want to cut their throat any time they looked in the mirror. These guys really take their government regulation seriously.
Kristen McMurray, one of the six creators of the site, knows that all too well and wasn’t surprised by the pro-regulation tactics. “Labeling me a ‘corporate shill’ avoids any real debate on net neutrality,” she said, “so I’m not surprised it degenerated into name calling.” McMurray added, “Think Progress should have practiced good journalism and fact checked before reporting on our school project.” As the social media arm of an organization that claims to want to “shape the national debate,” Think Progress has a responsibility to ensure that it does so in an accurate and honest manner. It seems like good journalism, honest debate and big government advocacy just don’t go together.
The last sentence here goes to the core of the leftist, socialist radicals on this blog. They are liars like Think Progress whose so-called investigations are not based on facts and research. Proof above.
Think Progress is funded by this world’s worst anti-Christ George Soros – aka Spooky Dude. Everything idiots on here claim the Koch Brothers are, this piece of crap George Soros is trilpe in spades. It is a Shadow Party Project of this low life, another low-life John Podesta and the Center for American Progress.
SUMMARY:
A Soros-Podesta (Shadow Party) Project
Think Progress is a “project” of the American Progress Action Fund (APAF), a “sister advocacy organization” of the left Center for American Progress (CAP) and CAP’s entities such as Campus Progress. It also draws freely on the resources and misrepresentations of the Soros-funded, Brock-edited Media Matters attack site.
Think Progress, an internet blog that “pushes back, daily,” by its own account against its conservative targets, and supports the Soros-Podesta American Progress Acition Fund agenda: to transform “progressive ideas into policy through rapid response communications, legislative action, grassroots organizing and advocacy, and partnerships with other progressive leaders throughout the country and the world.”
APAF describes itself as “a nonpartisan organization.” But in practice, Think Progress, like its parent organizations APAF and CAP, promotes an agenda indistinguishable from that of the left wing of the Democrat
And I thought some of my posts were long and biased...
You do know that attacking a site that debunks the lies of the right- and far less rabidly than Faux or Limbaugh, BTW, is somewhat...oxymoronic, right? In fact, attacking a site that repeatedly proves your position is dishonest, profit driven and ethically bankrupt is putting the cherry on the hot fudge sundae- you quite literally protest too much, and thereby prove the point.
After all, even a knife completely buried in BS can still cut the incautious heel...
Feisty - Yeah all miss Keith Olbermann too.......I wonder which Democratic campaigns (besides Obama's of course) Keith will be contributing to this go round while attempting to convey an image of being a "professional" and therefore "impartial" journalist of sorts?