Tell me again the MSM doesn't beat the drum slowly & loudly…

In the run up to the 11.10 election it was all about jobs and the economy 24/7! The Teapublicans
won by a landslide and for the next 6 months we didn't hear a word out of the MSM about the broken promises on J O B creation!

Now that the 2012 class of clowns have been established and it's obvious that there isn't a serious contender amongst them – they whip out the shiny object and start the pin the blame on Obama game AGAIN!

Can you people NOT see you're being PLAYED by the corporate agenda?

Do not allow yourself to be distracted!

Quit relying on the MSM and do some homework for a change!

PS: It occurred to me that maybe one of the reasons we heard non-stop about Anthony Weiner is, he did in fact LIE to the press & this may be a little 'payback'! ;o)

Life is great in ConservatiVille - Land of the hypocrits & Home of the Afraid!

As I wrote yesterday, the so called GOP/TP Party Debate came up short with any substantial ideas on how to create Jobs in this Country, how to stimulate a slowly improving Economy and nothing on what they are going to do to help our failing Education System.

Instead we got a bevy of old lies about the HCR Law (Affordable Care Act) signed by President Obama. Back in January of this year I did a 3 part series on the HCR Law namely in that it is not a Job Killing Bill nor is it a Budget Killer either. You can go look these posts up as they address the following lies in detail.

The Congressional Budget Office said the Affordable Care Act will kill 800,000 jobs. This is not true and comes from a misrepresentation of the CBO report where The Congressional Budget Office that last August had estimated that the new health care law over the next decade would reduce the number of overall workers in the United States by one-half of one percent, which translates into 800,000 people. But that’s not the same as saying it would “kill” that many jobs. This is a reduction in the supply of labor and the JOBS did not disappear. What the CBO did not include in their report was the number of these jobs that would be filled by new employees which would substantially reduce this number to boot. The example giving was to think of someone who is in their 60’s, a few years before retirement, who is still in a job only because he or she is waiting to get on Medicare at age 65.

Bachmann made the false statement that the HCR strips out $500 Billion from Medicare. What the HCR Law did in fact is as part of their cost containment (something the GOP/TP keeps avoiding) they redid the Medicare Advantage Programs which is basically a redundant program that only benefited the Insurance Companies and very little if anything to add any benefit to Medicare. It was nothing more than handling the same paperwork that the Government already had to do.

Medicare is not financially solvent. FACT: Medicare is fully solvent until 2024. After 2024, the hospital fund will still be able to meet “90 percent” of its commitments. Part of this extension in the life expectancy of Medicare (by 9 years from previous estimates) came directly from the cost cutting in Medicare Advantage Programs as noted above - $500 Billion.

The claim that Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan is “identical to what seniors already have. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It’s not. The government currently pays 74 percent of costs in Medicare Part D and grows that support at the rate of actual program costs. Ryan’s plan covers about a third of beneficiary costs and puts the rest of the costs on the backs of the elderly. Under the Ryan Bill beneficiaries will pay on an average about $6,000 more for the same coverage (and over time this number will drastically increase), and that support grows at the rate of inflation only which is only a fraction of the real double digit increases we have been seeing over the last decade plus in Health Insurance Costs. Over time the elderly, especially those on a fixed income, will find themselves in a position of paying 40-50% of their retirement dollars on Health Care. This is wrong and they just will not be able to afford it and hence no insurance. And yes, some senior citizens are going to die from the lack of proper medical care, period. The Ryan Bill is the one that has what is effectively a “Death Panel”.

The Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) will ration care to seniors beginning in 2014. This is the old “Death Panel” lie that has been debunked from the beginning. What the IPAB does is it kicks in if health care spending goes beyond a certain threshold and is statutorily prohibited from rationing benefits or increasing co-pays. In fact, Paul Ryan - even supported a more aggressive IPAB-type reform in 2009

This is just another example of the lack of any meaningful plans (ideas) from the GOP/TP. They are running away from their campaign promise to create jobs, stimulate the economy and improve education so they are going back to the HCR Law debate with the same lies as before. Too bad, we deserve better from our politicians. During the debate this week did anybody here the words “Middle Class”? (thanks Jody).

The bottom line is the GOP/TP does not have a plan to replace the HCR Law. They do have a program that if you are under 55 you will not get Medicare and/or Medicaid as we know it today. You will get a program that raises your current costs to a point over time that you cannot afford so only the wealthy will have Health Insurance and you can forget the Low Income, the sick and disabled from having anything. Class Warfare is alive and well in the halls of the GOP/TP, we see more proof every day.

[Sources for my opinions]

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3366

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3362

Side note: Looks like the demise of Collective Bargaining is now a fact in Wisconsin as we all suspected would happen with the right wing Supreme Court voting 4 to 3 to support the law. This could be a driving force to really fire up the recall elections this July or not. We will know soon.

Louis J:

Great post this morning and very true. Education, Science, Technology all have become taboo to those on the right. It is those very things that made America great that the GOP/TP is turning their backs on.

Who Can Stop Romney?

Some Tea Party groups want to stop Romney. Freedom Works will not support him. Koch brothers want a more conservative candidate. Looking at the other candidates, Gingrich will drop out, followed by Santorum and Cain. Ron Paul can’t stop Romney. And Pawlenty has to grow a backbone to stand up to Romney; he had no backbone as governor of Minnesota and left the state with a huge debt. I just don’t see the Tea Party rallying around a guy as boring as Tim.

Likewise, I don’t see the Tea Party getting all excited about Jon Huntsman. Jon is too rational and too liberal for the wild-eyed, gun-toten, sign-carrying Tea Partiers. Jon doesn’t fit the Koch brothers’ and John Birch Society’s profile.

So, who is left? Michele Bachmann. Michele wants huge corporate tax cuts. She wants to dismantle Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. She voted for the Ryan budget that would destroy Medicare as we know it. Why, she is a perfect fit for the Tea Party.

Now I confess that I wrote Bachmann off some time ago as someone who is as crazy as Palin. But perhaps I underestimated Michele. She hired Ed Rollins as her campaign manager and I certainly do not underestimate Mr. Rollins. She could win the Iowa caucus, skip New Hampshire, and give Romney a run for his money in South Carolina.

I guess the question becomes: Does the Tea Party want to stop Romney so bad that they would, as a group, vote for Michele Bachmann? Looking at some past Tea Party candidates like Sharon Angle, I suspect they might.

Feisty:

Agreed. The American people are being sold a spoiled basket of goods. Failed ideas from a previous administration and DRACONIAN Spending cuts seem s to be the message of the GOP/TP this time around.

They are running for the hills trying to avoid making good on their campaign promises of Jobs in this country, a better economy and improving education. These just are not important to them now, nor were they ever. Just rhetoric they used to mislead the American People.

Well the American people are now well aware of what the GOP/TP stands for and most do not like it. This is going to come home to roost and it should be interesting what happens over the next year and a half.

WI is going to be the first test now that the Repealing Collective Bargaining is now a Law. Other States will now move forward on their version of destroying unions.

Side note: Looks like the demise of Collective Bargaining is now a fact in Wisconsin as we all suspected would happen with the right wing Supreme Court voting 4 to 3 to support the law. This could be a driving force to really fire up the recall elections this July or not. We will know soon.

Given the mood in the NY26 district - those recall elections could very well be historic!

That's what tends to ensue when you overreach as egregiously as Dictator Walker has...

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Side note: Looks like the demise of Collective Bargaining is now a fact in Wisconsin as we all suspected would happen with the right wing Supreme Court voting 4 to 3 to support the law. This could be a driving force to really fire up the recall elections this July or not. We will know soon.

Yes, Navy it will Shift the perception sooner than later or as Senator Taylor says" NOW OR LATER"

The Republican canine symphony maintaining the status quo is scam on democracy and the US Constitution. Yet, it the faux republican who wrap themselves in the red, white, and blue vowing to uphold the US Constitution. It's time to stop the merry go round and cut through bulls!it like a hot knife through butter and call these shysters for what they are.

Gov Snot Walker’s purloin pen has opened the floogatees to his recall; in addition to other lawsuits.

I like your posts. one day righties will see fact cheecks.

I think we can all agree that Obama's leadership in the first 2.5 years does not instill confidence in any of the private sector employers. I think the next President elected in 2012 will be someone who has demonstrated an understanding of how business, hiring, budgeting really works. The uncertainty caused by those ridiculous Obama signed Frank/Dodd and HCR bills. The current Obama fiasco going on with Boeing all points to a desperate need for a change in leadership. Let's prove that elections do have consequences and VOTE FOR CHANGE IN 2012!

Ron:

Good point. This is going to get interesting as the GOP/TP starts to eat their own. I still do not see anybody on the right that can beat President Obama. His challenge is not from the right it is from the economy and that is the reason why the GOP/TP is not going to move forward with any Job Bill, Economic Stimulus or anything that will move this country forward.

They are just going to sacrifice the people of this nation to win the election in 2012 and we are all going to be hurting for decades to come.

This time the damage may nor be reparable.

It is not a remarkable transformation at all. Remember when you had a two year old child, and the only word they seemed to know was "NO!" This transformation of the Republican Presidential candidates from hawks to doves is a similar function. It is simply oppositional behavior.

I think we can all agree that Obama's leadership in the first 2.5 years does not instill confidence in any of the private sector employers.

Silly me...

And all this time I thought they earned their MEGA BUCKS by being the risk takers & entrepreneurs!

Good to know that NOW they continue to make their BILLIONS - by doing NOTHING!

I feel so MUCH better now! lol

And NO I ademently disagree...

Ron Indiana

Who Can Stop Romney?

That is a good question; might I add when? last night Rachel had a guy, an openly gay, who is trying. This guy is bring up the question of voter fraud.

And righties thought it was Acorn . looks like Romney's fraud is reeal.

Liberals keep deluding themselves that all is well, Obama is perfect, and to heck with the facts. Meanwhile, according to Gallup, Obama is losing independents, and the slight increase that remains in his approval ratings after the "bin Laden" bump comes from- Republicans. Not too many will vote for him, I will bet.

Turns out Obama really does have a jobs plan, however- for those with the proper qualifications. These are really good paying jobs, too- six figure jobs, with travel, healthcare, pensions, and a whole lot of assorted bennies. What are the qualifications necessary?

Well, you have to have contributed a whole lot of bucks to the Obama campaign

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56993.html

Not only can you get a really cushy job, but your company gets a whole bunch of borrowed stimulus bucks! Such a deal!

So much for Mr. Hopeful Changiness. So much for keeping special interests out of his administration.

So much for having his campaign funded by "the little people".

Judging by the dismal numbers coming out of this round of fundraisers, he will probably have to keep a broken promise from 2008 and accept public funding. People with those really lucrative paper routes who donated six figures seem to be keeping their wallets closed this year.

I wonder why?

Navy:

You are spot-on. It's not the GOP/TP that is a challenge to our President. It is, without the help of Republicans, getting the economy moving again. BTW, you wrote an excellent post.

1/20/2013 - THE END OF AN ERROR

How did we get so dumb? If there is one thing upon which Democrats and Republicans agree it is this: Our nation is in deep trouble. Yet, neither party has a serious plan to get this country back on track.

Are citizens concerned? You bet. Republicans - and some Democrats - can't take their eyes off Anthony Weiner. Democrats - and very few Republicans - point fingers at David Vitter. Is this really more important than genuine solutions to the huge problems facing us? There is no need to point out more of these hideous examples, a quick Internet search will turn up too many Senators and Representatives whose offenses are no different from Weiner and Vitter. When caught, rarely do these guys go quietly into oblivion. To the contrary.

They fight tooth and nail to hold on to their seats. THAT my friends is the real issue. The pay isn't bad - $174,000 annually and they have a first-rate health insurance plan. They are compensated well. For more, please visit this link: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm

But it's far more than that. They're addicts. They are intoxicated by power, by the deference of those around them, by the perquisites, and in the end, they are no different from a street junkie. Junkies! They'll do anything for that next fix. They'll cheat, they'll lie, they'll steal from their relatives and the people who trust them.

Oh how these power junkies lie. They know us. They know we want to hear about the good stuff. We don't like pain. So, the Republicans stand before us and talk about 5% growth - an impossibility. They talk about cutting taxes to balance the budget - an impossibility. They blame a barely-implemented health care reform plan for job losses - a lie. They will kill the EPA - who needs to protect the environment? They will kill the Department of Education - who needs education? They will kill Medicare and Social Security because privatization works so well. The evidence shows that the banks pile up record profits, health insurance companies are flush, and Americans are out of work. Yet, the Republican junkies spew this trash.

Shouldn't this be an opportunity for the Democrats? Hell yes, with opponents like that, total control of the House, the Senate, and the Presidency should be assured for at least the next decade. What a shame that Democratic office-holders are junkies too. Why are the banks taking record profits when they have just taken the planet to the edge of financial destruction? Because the bankers own Democrats as surely as they own Republicans. Why does no one touch the Defense Department for sorely-needed budget cuts? Because the military-industrial complex owns Democrats as surely as they own Republicans.

Republican Senator Tom Coburn has the guts to come out and try to kill ethanol subsidies and the Democrats kill it via arcane Senate rules, so they can be shielded from their constituents. Damned if they'll let Republicans take credit for a good idea.

Coburn flatly states - again this is a Republican - that tax subsidies cannot continue unabated. He says the revenue side of the budget MUST be addressed. A former Reagan economic advisor flatly states that tax cuts will not work, that 5% growth is a pipe dream, and that revenues must be increased. There is no answer from the Democrats.

In the main, Democrats and Republicans have nothing. Nothing! And we can't see it. How did we get so dumb?

@Navy -- you are correct. Obama will be defeated by the left -- himself. What a miserable record to run on.

Gloomy Manufacturing Data Spook Wall Street

Core Inflation Takes Biggest Leap in Nearly 3 Years

Key Manufacturing Index Unexpectedly Plummets

The NY Fed's Empire State survey, a key reading on the health of the manufacturing sector, fell below zero in June for the first time since November 2010.

Let's not forget 9.1 unemployment.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/index.html

If you are predicting that the Republicans will "eat their young" in future debates – you are wrong ohhhh so wrong. Will there be some sniping when it comes down to the two or three top primary winners? Of course there will be like in all primaries. But, the Republican Party – including the Tea Party Coalition – will ban together under one candidate and defeat this One Term President who has failed America. High unemployment, double dip recession coupled this time with inflation, weak dollar, high gasoline prices, high food prices – this president is a one-man wrecking crew of America.

Any one on that stage -- and others who are coming -- could beat – even with the baggage each brings -- our failed president and he understands. He knows he failed America. This is the only area that our failed president has a grasp on reality – he knows he is extremely vulnerable. Hence, Puerto Rico and aiming at a $1 billion war chest, but alas Homer Simpson could beat this failed president.

I dunno. I guess that low tax/low employment thingy might not be so bad. Let's take a look at what is working in New Hampshire. I can't wait to hear why that can't work LOL. And darn if it isn't a Democrat that has put this combination in play. Good for him.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128157201

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2011/06/14/nh_unemployment_rate_continues_to_drop/

feisty, don't forget to put your other hat on and play along with your true feelings. That was enjoyable to see yesterday.

Ben-636050

I dunno. I guess that low tax/low employment thingy might not be so bad. Let's take a look at what is working in New Hampshire. I can't wait to hear why that can't work LOL. And darn if it isn't a Democrat that has put this combination in play. Good for him.

Federal taxes are the lowest they've been in sixty years, in part because Obama added more tax cuts on top of the Bush tax cuts. That hasn't done anything but increase the deficit. Obama should probably have spent more on infrastructure spending in the stimulus package and less on tax cuts.

Ben,

Everyday with the same talking points. Some valid, Most vapid. Here's my question: when are you guys gonna take some responsibility for the situation we find ourselves in? You say: "High unemployment, double dip recession coupled this time with inflation, weak dollar, high gasoline prices, high food prices – this president is a one-man wrecking crew of America." The president CAN'T do all this himself. There ARE GOPers in the Fed. government, right?

And I thought you guys were the party of Personal responsibility.

It's time to STOP finger pointing, and START working together.

After suffering through GWB, and being dissapointed by Obama, I have come to realize that IT DOES NOT MATTER who wins the next election. If the American people are sooooooo preoccupied with the petty (and mind-numbingly pointless) name-calling and sniping those of differing opinions, we are never going to move forward.

All this nonsense.

I am so tired of every news story telling me how I'm being sold to the highest bidder that I'm about to hit the streets with pitchforks and torches. I feel screwed. Gang-screwed, by a bunch of suits that tell me to either A) "Smile, it will get better with time" or B) "By the way, when we're done we're gonna let our rich buddies do it too!"

I'm gonna join "THE RENT'S TOO DAMN HIGH!!" Party. At least that guy had conviciton.

I see that our poll dancer is at it again, trying to present an impression that President Obama's numbers are a problem. In fact the President's approval rating is STILL better than Reagan or Clinton at this point in their presidencies as it has been consistently since his election. Moreover his approval is BETTER than it was either on Jan 1 or a year ago. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

I guess Conservatives think if they keep telling us how unpopular Barack Obama is they can make it happen. That's not a real surprise since Conservatism as currently practiced is at its core a giant PR campaign, meant to deceive people about its real purposes and goals.

When are these GOP/TP clowns going to get the hint that the People are sick and tired of listening to their lies. Not one constructive thought or statement came out of the ridiculous 3 ring circus debate the other night. God, save us from these fools.

David Walker

How did we get so dumb? If there is one thing upon which Democrats and Republicans agree it is this: Our nation is in deep trouble. Yet, neither party has a serious plan to get this country back on track.

Are citizens concerned? You bet. Republicans - and some Democrats - can't take their eyes off Anthony Weiner. Democrats - and very few Republicans - point fingers at David Vitter.

David,

Have you noticed the one person in Congress who never put eyes on Wiener and remained silent was David Vitter?

Try this one, John-

When Obama took office, the Okun Misery Index, ( inflation plus unemployment), was 7.73.

He addressed that issue. It is now 12.6.

It's change, okay. Just not the sort of change people thought they would get.

Terrific posts, liberals. Always a pleasure to read your First Thoughts.

You're welcome, Navy; I really thought it odd that not one of those seven ever uttered the words "middle class". One would think middle class republicans would be wondering why they stand last in line after tax cuts for big business and more tax cuts for the richest among us. Perhaps they think they will soon be one of the rich and famous but it will never happen because the rich and famous intend to keep the middle class shrinking regardless of what party those in it support.

The media repeats often that when polled about 75% of republicans say the most important thing to do is choose a candidate who can beat President Obama. What I never hear the media mention is that the party out of power's goal is always to beat the opposition--that the poll answer is what every loyal party member would say. The media, without mentioning the poll, reports a different analysis. What we see already in this 75% GOPer goal to "beat the President" is a split, in fact a couple splits. The Tea Party is determined to defeat Mitt Romney and next on their list will be Jon Huntsman who, like Romney, has true progressive roots mixed in with their conservative beliefs. The Tea Party has its candidate, Michelle Bachmann. The other split is between the Romney, Pawlenty, Huntsman factions and the "east coast" republicans who are urging other candidates such as Rick Perry, Chris Christie, Rudy Guilliani, George Pataki to get in the race because they are not happy with the GOP field as it currently stands. No matter how one slices it, the GOPTP has an internal civil war problem--the moderate and reasonable fiscal conservatives are fighting its extreme far right base for the soul of and the future of the GOP.

I see the usual conservative flip/flop posts. On any given day they point out that President Obama has "embraced" big business by bringing the tycoons into his adminstration as advisers; then the next day to read how President Obama has dissed business and created uncertainty. Sometimes both are said in the same day. The truth is, President Obama understands, as does every president, that business is what makes America tick. The difference between republican and democratic presidents is in how loud the business is allowed to tick (as in power and control).

@Ted -- You make excellent points. There is no doubt that there were problems when the current failed president took over the reins. Touted as a highly intelligent man, he had to know going in what he was facing since educators and lawyers do a lot of research. He chose a path that exacerbated our problems and he now owns them. It does matter who wins the next election. This failed president has alienated so many that if he got on his knees and begged no one would still work with him. The dems need to find someone else to run against him in the primary; find a way to keep the Senate majority and take back the House (both nearly impossible as the economy continues to tank) or elect someone like a Huntsman, Perry, Romney (governors) and stay away from Congressional members running.

@California Tom -- You actually made more sense when you would just type -- xxx. LOL!

@Houston -- Get out of business' way with regs and it will be done.

I'm gonna join "THE RENT'S TOO DAMN HIGH!!" Party. At least that guy had conviciton.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Even Jimmy McMillan is a phony...

Rent Is Too Damn High Candidate Doesn't Pay Rent

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Rent-Is-Too-Damn-High-Candidate-Doesnt-Pay-Rent-105346278.html

First Ted, great post. Many share the same feelings of what you write.

Ted, Mid Michigan: It's time to STOP finger pointing, and START working together.

I think they (the Dems/GOP) are moving in that direction, but in a very odd way. The GOP has shown their hand, they've not only made a proposal on many of the economic issues of the day, but have passed a FY2012 Budget in the House that starts (barely) to address the out of control spending, and the out of control entitlements. The Democrats though will not show their hand, instead, they have committees (Biden) and bi-partisan talks (Gang of Six/Five). The Democrat led Senate will not propose legislation in response to the House. They will not back up their tax increase rhetoric, they will not legislate for reductions in Defense spending. And that is the starting point, what can the Senate propose, and pass, that can then be negotiated with the House? Until the Senate comes up with their budget, it's impossible to negotiate a deal.

Ted Mid Michagan:

Great post today and I have been asking the same question. When is the GOP/TP going to take responsibility for the mess they created that we are still paying for. I wrote this just his week and it is pretty much on point with your post.

ECONOMIC DOWNTURN AND BUSH POLICIES CONTINUE

TO DRIVE LARGE PROJECTED DEFICITS

http://www.cbpp.org/files/5-10-11bud.pdf

Tax Cuts, War Costs Do Lasting Harm to Budget Outlook

“Some commentators blame major legislation adopted in 2008-2010 — the stimulus bill and other recovery measures and the financial rescues — for today’s record deficits. Yet those costs pale next to other policies enacted since 2001 that have swollen the deficit. Those other policies may be less conspicuous now, because many were enacted some years ago and they have long since been absorbed into CBO’s and other organizations’ budget projections”.

“Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. [7] By 2019, we estimate that these two policies will account for almost half — nearly $10 trillion — of the $20 trillion in debt that will be owed under current policies.[8] (The Medicare prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 also will substantially increase deficits and debt, but we are unable to quantify these impacts due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues, which will account for less than $2 trillion (less than 10 percent) of the debt at that time. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers”.

“Without the economic downturn and the fiscal policies of the previous Administration, the budget would be roughly in balance over the next decade. That would have put the nation on a much sounder footing to address the demographic challenges and the cost pressures in health care that darken the long-run fiscal outlook.[9]”

This is what the GOP/TP keeps denying and then turning around and trying to blame President Obama. The facts as outlined in this detailed report are that the previous administration put us in the toilet and no matter who was elected President he/she would be faced with many years of reconstruction. It took 8 years to get into this mess and no president, Republican or Democrat, can reverse the damage in 2 plus years. Especially if you take into consideration that the GOP/TP for the last 2 plus years have done everything in their power to try and make President Obama fail. They have stalled over 400 Bills in the Senate with outright objections (blocks) or filibusters demanding 60 votes. They (GOP/TP) have opposed virtually every Bill that has anything to do with creating jobs and/or helping Small Businesses. Go look up their record of virtually 100% “Obstructionism” on legislation that would have moved this country forward, like the $50 Billion Dollar infrastructure bill for example.

And to compound the problem, the GOP/TP is proposing the same Agenda today as this one above that got us into this mess to begin with. The GOP/TP has no new ideas; just the same old same old just repackaged, but with the same failed programs. Just look at the “Ryan Bill”, T-Paw’s proposal which is even worse and the new Bachmann initiative that is worse than the other two. None of them address the cost driving issues in this country. None of them have any plans to create jobs and stimulate the economy, in fact they all do just the opposite. And these are being presented as “Fiscally Responsible” Bills” that will answer all our problems when they add anywhere from $5.5 Trillion to almost $8 Trillion to the deficit/debt in the next decade while giving the Millionaires & Billionaires record tax cuts. In addition these “bogus” spending cut /economic bills destroy most of the Social Programs that benefit the Middle Class and Low Income Families, like the destruction of Pell Grants for education, Medical Research, Food and Product Safety etc etc etc etc.

What these have in common is the promotion of the GOP/TP agenda that “Spending Cuts” and Tax Cuts for the richest 2% are Americas answer to all our problems. They are not. Not any of these address the real problems we are facing.

Ben,

First let me apologize. I should not have included you in my general ire.

Second you go on to perpetuate exactly why people like myself, and it seems David Walker, get so upset.

What has he done to ecacerbate our situation? Tell me, please. Why is he a failure? He has lowered taxes, 40+ percent of the hated stimulous was tax breaks. He has answered the peoples will; the top issue of the '08 election was health care. Job numbers are improving. Deficit reduction plans are being hammered out. And a more general question, why do you and your likes cheer when the nation struggles? Why?

If the nation's deficit is such a problem, why are tax cuts "off the table" while we have historically low rates. Why are taxes off the table when US corps pay less (per percentage of GDP) than any other western nation. This is asinine! Why are Defense cuts "off the table" when defense takes such a huge amount of our resources, coupled with the fact that the populace is on record over and over stating that the war machine needs to be wound down. these positions are stupid. Idealogically driven and stupid.

I'm not unreasonable. I'm not a sheep. I do not blindly follow any party, though I line up much better with the Dems. However, as a young man, regardless of party, the GOP has taken some pretty stupid positions and refuses to negotiate. that, to me, is a failure. If the GOP wants to focus on debt / deficit reduction, they're gonna have to bear some of the brunt as well. If they are not willing to sacrifice like everyone else is going to, we should simply move on to focusing on nothing but creating new industries and job creation, which will go farther towards deficit reductions than any of these stupid gimmicks we keep discussing.

No need to respond Ben, it's pointless for both of us. And, I need to sharpen my pitchfork.....

So, what are you advocating, Navy? Another trillion for "shovel ready" jbs that even Obama admits do not exist? The ones he thinks are some kind of big joke?

You happy with the fact that he gave mega-borrowed-bucks to his campaign contributors? (see my post above, and follow the link to the Politico story- you will never read that here or on think progress).

Maybe you are just following the Gibbs strategy- no affixing blame for the poor economy. Nope. Cannot do that- it might not redound to Obama's credit.

The plain, simple fact of the matter is that Obama not only has no clue how to improve the economy, all he does makes matters worse.

Which is why his fundraising is falling so far short of the mark.

Do any of you other non Liberals (Independents to right ) people love the brotherly petting that goes on here between the 14 so called liberals that frequent this site? I find it very interesting that feisty called the so called "recall" historic, it will have to be historic because since 1929 the recall record of any party is slim to none and slim just left vegas! I have issues with people who just call people names because they have a different opinion or they just plain know they are wrong but wont admit it. Which is why I dont converse with Bev or Anna Molly! I do agree that the upcoming actual recall "attempts" and they are just that attempts will call the way this next election will go. The local version of MTP here in Detroit is called FlashPoint is normally stocked with 2 right and 2 left participants, they mentioned the recall effort here in Michigan and both of the left Debbie Dingle and one of the local left news paper reporters. They were asked about recalls and both stated that because of the success of Mr Snyder in getting things passed where the democrats had previously failed that any recall regardless of how many union/public make noise the recall will never be successful. I believe this situation exists in most of the current republican controlled states. I know how vocal and loud the left can be , I have personally observed this loud abusive screaming and yelling, in 1969 coming back from Viet Nam in Philadelphia and here in Lansing this past spring. The two groups of people where virtually the same in loudness and vitriolic behavior! I have taken to saving screen captures of these discussions, for the day after the election. It could be a fun day.

A perfect illustration of the concept of "cognitive dissonance"...

If only I had a nickle for every time I've read the phrase 'failed President' this morning! I'd be a very wealthy lady and heading for a 3% income tax increase.. lol

Bottom line is this - once again, the baggers & birthers revel when it comes to failure, whether it be real or imagined!

And they have the nerve to call themselves 'real' Americans!

Ted, Mid Michigan: If the nation's deficit is such a problem, why are tax cuts "

Ted, Mid Michigan: Why are Defense cuts "off the table"

Just because the GOP says so, doesn't make it true. When is the Democratic Senate going to pass budget legislation with their ideas on how to address overspending and entitlement reform? To date, they have done nothing. If the Senate wants to raise taxes, let them legislate it and pass those tax increases. When they do, we'll all know where the Democrats stand, who they want to tax, and how much tax revenue it will generate. To date, the Senate is AWOL. The same with Defense cuts, if the Senate wants to include cuts to Defense, they can legislate that too. They will then be on record for what taxes they want to raise and what cuts they want to make to Defense. That's when negotiations can begin. Until that time, the Democrats have nothing but empty rhetoric.

Joanna,

Thanks, and, wait for it......I agree with you. Someone has to put their head on the chopping block. Whether it be a Dem in the senate introducing a budget which tackles the aforementioned items, and get some significant cuts (isn't it strange how politics makes these little phrases almost mandatory....) or, a GOP house member who introduces legislation to increase revenues. It's like a game of "chicken" where whoever moves FIRST is gonna lose.

USN,

I agree, getting the GOP to own their portion of this mess is hard; just about as hard as getting our fellow Dems to take ownership over our failings. It has to stop. Better yet, it (a real constructive dialog) has to START. Soon.

Dangerfield,

Woe is me! All my heroes are villians? does that make me a bad person? Thanks for the giggle.

Ben-636050

@Navy -- you are correct. Obama will be defeated by the left -- himself. What a miserable record to run on.

Let's not forget 9.1 unemployment.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/index.html

We haven't and we know why. It has nothing what-so-ever to do with the President and everything to do with the GOP/T-BAGGER Congress and Wall Street gangsters' Master Plan of wrecking the economy purposely in order to regain the White House and maintain their addition to greed and betrayal.

BTW: No one pays attention to FOX Business network . It is not even rated due to it's low audience.

Fox Business averaged 21,000 viewers between 5 a.m. and 9 p.m. in June, according to Nielsen Co

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125055835781238939.html

It seems to be a self esteem deficit that Feisty, Ron, Navy, Beverly and many others have. Or maybe it is just the liberal mantra that is now ruining our schools - everybody is smart, all opinions are valid, and above all, everybody is a "winner."

The problem for them is they are wrong, most people are not winners, and they all share the same opinion, which is just wrong.

President Obama has failed. The stimulus, Holder's Justice Department, the NLRB, the focus on green jobs, the lies about shovel ready anything.

Durable goods, unemployment, inflation. THe numbers do not lie. He did not create the mess, but he has certainly made it worse.

ANd yet there is still no leadership. He has no plans for the economy, no viable plans for the three wars. Campaigning, yes. Leading, no.

DNVSR - When have you EVER disagreed with Feisty and Beverly or any of your other 14 fellow "First Read" posters that "cut and paste" post within the first 5 posts every single solitary day here? Ha!Ha!Ha!

Interesting on how the FR libs still can't acknowledge the role the left played in the the great recession. Even better that they can't see the role that the taxpayers also played in proving the dangers of uncontrolled spending without the revenues to back ithat spending.

Something that many seem to forget about is that in recessions past, housing has always been part of the recovery. We have too many overpriced houses in the current market. If the banks or sellers have to take a hit, so be it. I wasn't a happy camper back in the early 80's when my house went underwater, but I survived and without a government bailout.

FR: Republicans still searching for Mr. Right…

There is no Mr./Ms. Right for Republicans they are all wrong.

@muffintop1

It seems to be a self esteem deficit that Feisty, Ron, Navy, Beverly and many others have. Or maybe it is just the liberal mantra that is now ruining our schools - everybody is smart, all opinions are valid, and above all, everybody is a "winner."

We deal with facts; everyone has an opinion.

I suggeest you factchct that garbag you postd above.

The Facts

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker

Politi-fact

http://www.politifact.com/

Fact check.org

http://www.factcheck.org/

Wonder why you’re hurting?
Because you earn less and less!

A conservative blogger yesterday posted a striking report showing that American workers’ incomes, as a share of national earnings, have been diving for years and years.

Say, this is news to us? I don’t think it’s much of a surprise at all – and it has been an intentional result.

Between pitting American workers against overseas competition (where sometimes the average daily wage is less than a dollar), changing tax laws to fatten executive paychecks and shrink the workers’, and pursing policies that created the economic mess now afflicting America, the Republican Party has waged “class warfare” on America’s working people. And here are the results:

Workers’ share of national income plummets
to record low

By Zachary Roth

Over the last decade, the share of U.S. national income taken home by workers has plummeted to a record low.

See the entire article and the chart, seeded to the ‘Vine, here:

<http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110614/bs_yblog_thelookout/workers-share-of-national-income-plummets-to-record-low>

And the policies that caused this harm to America’s working people are the same ones the Republicans embraced whole-heartedly in Monday’s debate.

Republicans are “enemies of the people.” No ideas about jobs – but the Democrats have made proposals in their alternative budget plans. Rather than efforts to strengthen American workers’ wages, Republicans have instead intensified their assault on the wages levels of workers – but made sure they boosted the wealth of the top 1%.

Republicans say President Obama has “failed” – but it is clear that the failures have ALL been Republican, reaching back to 1981. President Obama has managed to reverse the disastrous slide into social and economy chaos begun by his predecessor, the inept and incompetent liar, George W. Bush.

Absolute, utter failure of the right wing ideology of the past 30 years underlies America’s present distress. To even consider going back to those destructive policies is the height of absurdity.

nojoe,

It's good to see you back. I hope your family is doing well.

Ted, Mid Michigan: or, a GOP house member who introduces legislation to increase revenues. It's like a game of "chicken" where whoever moves FIRST is gonna lose

This will all happen in a conference committee between the House and the Senate. Speaker Boehner has been known to be reasonable and cut deals. He'll be ready, and he'll take the heat if taxes are raised, but John is a big boy, he'll deal with it. The Senate though needs to let everyone know where it stands. Every vote they've taken on the budget has resulted in a "No" vote. 40-59 on the House budget. 0-97 on Obama's Budget, Version 1.0 (still waiting for 2.0). And what Biden is doing there negotiating is a mystery. It's the job of the Senate to come up their own legislation, not the VP.

Joanna,

To be fair to Biden he is "The President" of the Senate. (Whatever that means in real terms) And, I think he is trying to address the Senate's failings that you are speaking of. I agree absolutely though; the Senate blockade must end.

Cardog: If you start with Barak Obama's first conservative opponent in Illinois, Alan Keyes

Alan Keyes was not Obama's first "conservative opponent" in Illinois. While running for the Senate. Obama initially faced Republican Jack Ryan in the general election. Ryan though had his sealed divorce papers leaked to the media, and it showed some unseemly behavior in Ryan's past that caused Ryan to withdraw from the race. It's unclear who leaked the information of Ryan's divorce, but this was Illinois politics where the Democratic smear machine is alive and well.

Keyes was the stooge the Republican "elite" in Illinois picked to run against Obama. A pure disaster on their part.

David Walker and Ted, thank you both for stating a truth that goes so often ignored. Party politics today is nothing more than a way to keep the American people divided and at each others throats while problems go unsolved. It gets so frustrating to see one side bash and snipe at the other for the very things both sides do ad nauseum. I've tried for years now to convince folks to vote for a third party that best represents their ideology with obviously little success. I always hear the same thing, "If I felt they had a chance, I'd vote for them." The funny thing is, if everyone who felt that way actually did vote third party, I think both dems and repubs would be quite surprized at the outcome.

Um, car dog? You kind of got off to a bad start.

Alan Keyes is an African American. His differences with Obama were political, not racial.

Jeeez.

It is the same for most, (I am not naive enough to say all), who oppose his policies. For example, I opposed his stimulus plan, based on the failed record of Keynesian intervention in economies. Obama, and his supporters, believed it would grow the economy, rather than the deficit.

The fact that I, and those who opposed this profligate spending, were right, and Obama and his adherents wrong, is not a Racial issue- but an economic issue.

The majority that favors repeal of his HCR is not comprised of racists- unless you can claim the same for the majorities who opposed Clinton's HCR.

The race card was used successfully last time out to convince voters that questioning Obama's qualifications, plans, and experience rendered them racists. I do not believe it will work this time.

Cardog: Lou Dobbs, the closeted ultra conservative fanatic actually had to leave CNN due to his right wing beliefs.

That is correct. Right wing beliefs are not allowed to be presented on CNN, which explains why Dobbs is gone and Spitzer took his time slot.

I pay approximately $200 per month for a Medicare Supplement Plan that covers doctors' expenses for me. I pay an additional approx. $50 for a Prescription Drug Plan. Along with what I have paid into Medicare throughout my life, I also pay approximately $120 each month (taken out of my SS) to pay for hospital costs.

So let's enlighten ourselves a little about what the "Medicare Advantage" plan actually does. It is none of the above. You still have to pay for it out of your pocket at a somewhat lesser price than the one I pay, but the government actually pays the insurance company approximately $800-$900 (maybe it's even gone up) for the same things that I am paying for. You still have your Medicare Part A taken out of your SS, so what it does is give the insurance companies an additional $600-$700 subsidy to put in their pocket, as their cost to you for supplemental insurance and drug coverage would only run about $250, which is the same as mine. So consider that every month the insurance companies get an additional profit subsidized by the government for each person on Medicare Advantage in the amount of $600-$700. That's not money that's used for you. You have no other benefits than me. It goes into insurance company profits! Medicare Advantage should be called Insurance Company Advantage. Think of the costs that would be cut by ending the program of that name. You would still be able to buy affordable supplemental and RX insurance, but we wouldn't be giving billions the insurance companies for nothing.

Then the next thing that congress should do it allow us to negotiate for prescription medication costs. Just like every other country does. The drug companies make trillions, pay out billions in silly advertising - like telling you how many ways their medications can actually kill you, but please ask your doctor to prescribe it for you. Not saying that medications are not necessary, just saying why are we paying 2-3X what every other country - with sense - is paying.

Ms. Bachmann needs to get her facts straight. The money she is talking about being cut from Medicare needs to be cut. It does not take away benefits, it only takes away subsidies to the insurance companies.

"Let's take a look at what is working in New Hampshire. I can't wait to hear why that can't work LOL."

Because they are all working in Massachusetts, that's where their jobs are.

which explains why Dobbs is gone and Spitzer took his time slot.

Spitzer of course started his career on CNN with Kathleen Parker, an alleged Conservative with right wing beliefs. She too was thrown off of CNN.

Seems to be a pattern.

Just because the GOP says so, doesn't make it true.

JS1 had to say something true eventually.

More importantly it illustrates that even Conservatives know that the GOP is not to be taken at their word.

@cardog

"Obama is a radical communist and I think it is becoming clear. That is what I told people in Illinois and now everybody realizes it's true, He is going to destroy this country, and we are either going to stop him or the United States of America is going to cease to exist".

This statement from Keyes is just an example of the opposition to the first person of color being elected to the office of president.

I do not need to play any type of card, especially the race card, my friend, we as a nation do that quite well without help from me. I see with my own eyes what this nation is capable of on it's dark side and simply state it.

If you do not need to play the race card to make your point why do you then play the race card? Keyes statement was solely about Obama's political beliefs as he saw them. You then conflate this statement with his opposition being to the first person of color elected president. Apart from the fact the statement was made before Obama was running/elected president, the implied implication is that Keyes opposition was racially, not politically based.

All I can conclude from your post is that you are a phoney when you claim you did not play the race card, and your last statement on the country leads me to conclude that your are probably a bigot too. How is that chip on your shoulder?

Lou Dobbs got himself in a world of hurt at CNN with many of his populist-tainted, right-wing comments - butwhat really creamed his chances was an advertiser boycott by disgusted viewers over perceived racism and elitism. Of course, some rather unfortunate public statements during that time didn't help him, either. He's much more in his milieu at Fox.

Spitzer's on the air by himself now because the woman who had been sharing the slot was utterly boring and dull. I didn't watch too often, but many friends who did complained about her lifeless performance. Viewership in the time slot actually went up after she left. Eventually CNN needs to dig up a host with the elegant courtesy and insight that Larry King had shown.

CNN these days appears to be drifting a bit more to the right. Jack Cafferty is a cantankerous, cranky right-of-center populist. Overall, as far as I can see, CNN is about the only major cable venue that actually does practice journalism, and prretty much with an even hand.

If you read the data that indicates that workers share of income has been going down since 1980, they forgot to control for one GIGANTIC change that would dramatically impact the numbers. Besides legal and illegal immigration having a significant statistically negative impact on the middle class wages, the statistics they show are significantly skewed by the changes in the tax code in the 80s. Prior to that point, we have a double tax system in which private business wealth was built via corporations and other taxpaying entities that had a lower tax rate than the individual tax rate and then upon retirement or death, the owner could liquidate and pay tax at that point. For example, Bill Gates started Microsoft and made all of his earnings through Microsoft which was taxed and he made a relatively small salary and his wealth was in the value of Microsoft shares. Now anyone starting a business uses entities in which the income is reflected on the owners personal tax return so that person pays tax once and it used to be at a lower rate until Clinton raised it above the corporate rate. So if Bill Gates started Microsoft today, millions of additional income would be reflected on his personal tax return. This alone accounts for the vast majority of that share of income going down over time since the 1980s. Private business owners know have all their income on their personal tax returns making it appear as if they made a much larger portion of the share of income when in fact they havent. Before that income was reflected in the corporate returns and their wealth was reflected in the ownership of the company. Before we start creating class warfare issues lets make sure we understand all the culprits including legal and illegal immigration and tax law changes. The impact of the economy would have an up and down impact on these numbers in much smaller ways that are hidden by the impact of these two very significant impacts.

Just because the GOP says so, doesn't make it true.

JS1 had to say something true eventually.

More importantly it illustrates that even Conservatives know that the GOP is not to be taken at their word.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. PS. Wasn't it John Kyl that gave us, "not intended to be a factual statement"?

So we have a PRIME example of WILLFUL COMPLIANCE. They know what's up, they are just CYNICAL enough to perpetuate it to score points. And they don't even have the common sense (sic decency?) to be ashamed about it.

Janeane Garafalo called David Frum out for it on Bill Maher last year and I now notice it more and more. WINNING the election means FAR more to them than winning the hearts and minds based on viable policy. It sure is refreshing to see JAS1 finally admitting it openly, though!

Interesting concept, Kirk--do you have any documentation to quantify the impact of those changes?

I dont have cites but both Time magazine and the Wall Street Journal have had articles on this over the last several years. They indicate because this data is from IRS income tax return data, its impossible to quantify the numbers because of how income flows through but they theorize that because wealth is virtually exactly the same percentages as it was concentrated before by the same quartiles if you include ownership of private businesses (tough to value on its own and never done before 1980) they think the impact from the tax code changes alone account for almost all the change except for the bottom class which is made up of legal and illegal immigrants. That doesnt mean we dont have inequity issues but maybe the sames one we had prior to 1980 and that doesnt mean the tax code is woefully inequitable.

How do you square that with statistics showing that between 1994 and 2005 net wealth of the top decile doubled, the second decile was very substantial, and from the middle quartile down the increase was almost nonexistent? http://www.jchs.harvard.edu/publications/markets/w07-1.pdf This entire time period is outside the time period you specified so that the tax changes you cite aren't a factor, yet the concentration in wealth is substantial even during this short time period.

The specific information to which I refer is in Chart 4, page 13 of the link above.

Interesting study which I havent seen. Its a very small sample but informative. I read the whole thing and I would say they forgot a couple of very important factors. First, they did not include government assistance as income or the present value of entitlement payments to the lower and middle quartile which makes up a very significant portion of this group's income and wealth. Social Security and pension benefits (also excluded from wealth) would be the primary wealth that these group's had. You cant exclude them and make a apples to apples comparison. Second, including the wealth of the richest segment of our society--retired seniors-is also something I am not sure how they control for. This group isnt earning much income but has a tremendous amount of wealth as an aggregate group which they either plan to live on or pass down to their heirs. As this group gets larger as the baby boomers retire will only exacerbate this issue. The authors of the study admit that this fact skews the results but they dont know how to exclude them because they do hold a big share of the wealth.

Kirk, I have to disagree with you for this purpose. If you were strictly measuring the relative income and wealth of the quartiles your criticism would be right on target, but there's more to it than that. Because the same methodology was used to measure income and wealth in 1994 as well as 2005 the point is moot.

The real issue here is the rapid rate of wealth concentration to the upper class. On that point the data is clear--wealth is accruing rapidly to those at the very top, with virtually no new wealth accumulation below the top quartile.

We are within striking distance from another point that is significant in our society. You mentioned the effects of public assistance on the raw numbers. Many of those people are working, but at jobs that leave their income at a level too low to escape the need for public assistance of one sort or another.

Frankly, it offends me that the majority of WalMart employees, for example, still qualify for welfare. They're far from the only offenders. My tax dollars are used to subsidize the low prices at such businesses, both hiding the true cost of their wares and making it more difficult for competitors to pay well enough to escape the same fate.

I am not sure I am following you. Whether the same methodology is used n 1995 and 2004 is the same doesnt matter if a big portion of the lowest quartiles wealth is missing because we dont know and it would be very relevant if the amount of public assistance, the aging of the population so that social security values were increasing, pension benefits for government employees were dramatically expanding during that time period which when missing could account for a good portion of the wealth and income growth disparity. For example, if teachers, firemen, cops traded income for benefits such as full paid medical and better pension benefits (which we know they did), this will skew the results during this time period because the better benefits specifically pension isnt considered a wealth asset in the study while the non union employee including high quartile workers were building up 401 (k) accounts and stock equity which is included in these workers wealth.

I do agree that that its much easier to accumulate additional wealth when you have wealth, but lets assume that I agree that there is some aspect of this study that is accurate but not all of it because I do believe my explanations for the difference explain a good portion of the data. Do you believe there have been behaviorial changes in the lower and middle quartiles that keep them from accumulating wealth? I grew up in a lower quartile home with both parents working but they saved every penny they made to put me through college. We didnt take expensive vacations, build up credit card debt, buy expensive cars etc. In the last 20 years, the lower to middle quartile seems to me to be a consumer driven group that chooses not to accumulate wealth plus the impact of legal and illegal immigration has certainly driven down wages and the minimum wage laws have had a huge detrimental impact on hiring teenagers for jobs to help supplement family income. So I wonder the impact of these things.

I dont get your Walmart comments as I see Walmart as the model of good capitalism. They provide a good that people buy and if they dont want to buy it they are free to go somewhere else. If they dont want to work at Walmart such person doesnt have to--they can open up their own store (my parents did) and work hard to better themselves. How are your tax dollars subsidizing walmart? Not sure how the true cost of their wares is hidden explain that to me.

Kirk, to deny that wealth concentration occurred at a rapid pace during this 11 year period you need to assume that the bottom 60% of the economy, and to an extent the next 20% as well totally changed their behavior during that time period. I don't buy that because there would be evidence of such change, such as a dramatic collapse in the savings rate. While the savings rate in America is disappointingly low, it's been that way for many years and there was no change in savings rate that would be sufficiently to explain a sudden shift in wealth concentration--in fact there couldn't be because the savings rate wasn't that high to begin with.

In terms of subsidizing WalMart, the true cost of supporting a worker is reflected in the goods or services of companies that pay enough to make a home. Note that I didn't say "own a home." This could be a level that requires one to rent an use public transportation, but anything that keeps people above the poverty level.

WalMart doesn't pay that well. The majority of their employees, in fact, don't earn enough to rise above the poverty level. For that reason tax money is used to help them make ends meet. Our tax dollars, then, help to keep the wage level down because we're subsidizing the support of those WalMart (and other) employees.

That assumes that the work force doesnt have the flexibility to take other jobs, create their own job or whether you really believe in a mobile work force. If Walmart couldnt find people willing to work for $13 dollars an hour (what they pay here in Chicago), people wouldnt be lined up to have those jobs. They would have to pay more to incent them to work. If those workers dont like the job or pay, move, open up a Subway shop, Dunkin Donuts. Go to school and get some training. People make choices and we nor the government shouldnt insert ourselves into those choices. Its not the government's job to fix that issue as typical market forces will correct it on its own. We have seen the government insert itself with miinimum wage laws, welfare, subsidized housing etc that have all failed and have had the unintended consequences of making it worse. Can your teenage daughter find a job these days? Blame immigration and minimum wage laws. You dont blame republicans for this do you?

Kirk, don't know if you've noticed but the worst recession since the Great Depression hit in late 2007. At this point the economy is still paddling hard just to get back to where we were before that time. If anyone can't find a job that's WAY more likely to be the cause than minimum wage laws.

So, are you making a case that the economy is weaker than it could be due to minimum wage laws, welfare, subsidized housing, etc?

US NAVY I like that phrase the "no touchy bin." It's ironic the Teapublicans consider Defense spending sancrosant while turning into doves over a Democratic President ordered air support for NATO in Libya.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

People, the GOP/TP does not want to create jobs in this country, they do not want to stimulate the economy, they want to cut education, they will not cut DOD Spending, they will not cut the record tax cuts for the top 2%, they will not cut the tax incentives to Big Oil. What the he!! are they going to do to move this nation forward? It appears NOT MUCH.

Navy, the the GOP/T-baggers are some of the worst parasites in America. They start from outside and bore a hole in the America and call it a mutual relationship. These vermin are now feeling so confident about their unwillingness to reck this economy.

Some of Wall Street’s biggest banks are preparing to cut their use of US Treasuries in August as a precaution against any turbulence that could follow if warring Republicans and Democrats fail to increase soon the US debt ceiling, a senior bank chief said.

One strategy, which bank executives only agreed to discuss without attribution due to the political sensitivities related to discussing Treasury debt, is to have more cash on hand to put up as collateral against derivatives and other transactions, decreasing the financial system’s reliance on Treasuries.

“We’re planning to lower our reliance on the use of Treasuries in early August and have more cash on hand as a contingency measure,” said a US bank chief.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7880e61e-9521-11e0-a648-00144feab49a.html#axzz1PG926EkF

The Bankgasts are pulling a fast one. The use this due to uncertainty they caused. Uncertainty is a single mother working a job with stagnant wages, an unemployed person, a homelees family ectc.

I apologize for the typos my key board is sticking.

The Bankers are pulling a fast one. They use this ploy due to uncertainty they caused. Uncertainty is a single mother working a job with stagnant wages, an unemployed person, a homeless family etc..

They have $2 trillion how much more do they want? They want power. i.e WH and greed. Talk about addition!!

Bev:

You said it better than me. Thank you.

This is going to come to a head soon I hope. The outright lies and arrogance from the GOP/TP Party can only go so far before it falls apart. They cannot even keep their own stories together anymore. One day they are for something and the next they are not. They say one thing and do another and basically dare the American People to do anything about it.

Well, we shall see how this plays out. This may well be the last chance to exposed these thugs for what they are. It we miss the opportunity here then we deserve what we get.

Wow, Bev, you hit the nail on the head:

The Bankers are pulling a fast one. They use this ploy due to uncertainty they caused. Uncertainty is a single mother working a job with stagnant wages, an unemployed person, a homeless family etc..

They have $2 trillion how much more do they want? They want power. i.e WH and greed. Talk about addition!!

FACT: Last month the Republican House passed the FY12 Defense Authorization bill which authorized $9 billion LESS than the president requested.

FACT: Yesterday the Republican House Appropriations Committee approved the FY12 defense appropriation bill which provided $8.9 billion LESS than the president requested.

FACT: Outlays for the Department of Defense are estimated to be $740 billion in FY11 and steadily decline to $651 billion in FY16 – even as total federal outlays will be increasing from $3.8 trillion in FY11 to $4.5 trillion in FY16.

So the FACTS are that defense spending is taking a hit. That's why no one should ever believe the uninformed drivel spewed by the leftist zealots around here

Great post USN, and thanks Bev or pointing out that Republican hanky panky with the budget has become the single biggest threat to the economy. They SAY they're working toward a compromise on the debt ceiling, but even yesterday Tom Coburn and Paul Ryan said in a media round table on the economy that there will be NO increase in the debt ceiling without a dollar for dollar decrease in the budget.

That's disingenuous and devious. Republicans ALREADY VOTED TO INCREASE THE NATIONAL DEBT when they approved the House budget. They've signaled their willingness to bloat the debt by $60T before finally bringing it into balance in the 2060s. All for a budget that destroys the social safety net in order to pay for big tax cuts to the wealthy elites and corporations.

Great info, US Navy. It is frustrating to watch the GOPTP increase spending on the military industrial complex while denying food to children. They cannot stoop lower because they are below ground.

It isn't liberal drivel, it is the facts that were revealed. Just because one wishes it to be drivel does not make it so.

Navy and Amy B. Portland, ME

You said it better than me.

This is going to come to a head soon I hope. The outright lies and arrogance from the GOP/TP Party can only go so far before it falls apart. They cannot even keep their own stories together anymore. One day they are for something and the next they are not. They say one thing and do another and basically dare the American People to do anything about it.

Well, we shall see how this plays out. This may well be the last chance to exposed these thugs for what they are. It we miss the opportunity here then we deserve what we get

Thank you both of you.

I think people are becoming more aware in incremental stages.

The problem is the indication that law enforcement is not actually investigating the crimes of the U.S. Supreme Court Justice. And of course, th ads being run by the Koch Brothers blaming the President for rising oil prices, when in fact it's the speculators. The original speculators ar the thieving Kochs.

That like Ryancare, Jobs, and the Debt Ceiling went into slow mode after 3 weeks of distracting talk about Winergate.

The 'Judicial Insider Trading' of Justice Clarence Thomas and Wife 'Ginni'

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8561

"In a surprise move, Defense Secretary Robert Gates has recommended $78 billion in military spending cuts over the next five years. The proposal includes slashing the number of private contractors by almost a third, nixing an amphibious tank known as the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle, increasing health insurance fees paid by retired veterans and delaying production of a new generation of airplanes known as the Joint Strike Fighter program. "This plan represents, in my view, the minimum level of defense spending that is necessary, given the complex and unpredictable array of security challenges the United States faces around the globe," Gates said. The plan also constitutes the biggest military spending cut in the post-9/11 era."

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/01/gates-pushes-for-biggest-military-spending-cuts-of-post-9-11-era/21589/

"Defense Secretary Robert Gates said yesterday that tough economic times require that he shut a major command that employs some 5,000 people around Norfolk, Va., and begin to eliminate other jobs throughout the military."

http://articles.boston.com/2010-08-10/news/29320196_1_joint-forces-command-defense-secretary-robert-gates-war-spending

"Defense Secretary Robert Gates plans to announce a new round of military budget cuts...The Defense Department is responsible for the biggest piece of discretionary spending in the federal government's annual budget. It's been largely protected until now, but incoming members aligned with the Tea Party movement have said that cuts to military spending must be considered."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/06/gates-proposing-cuts-military-budget/

"Today, I am announcing a number of decisions and measures that mark the next major step in this Department's reform agenda….To achieve the savings targets set last year, the uniformed service leadership conducted a thorough and vigorous scrub of our military's bureaucratic structures, business practices, modernization programs, civilian and military personnel levels, and associated overhead costs – identifying savings that totaled approximately $100 billion over five years….We also examined how the department is staffed, organized and operated as a whole. Special attention was paid to those DoD headquarters, administration and support elements outside the four military services – the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Staff, the Combatant Commands, and the defense agencies and field activities – all of which have seen significant growth in budget, staff, and contractors over the last decade. This effort – combined with a government-wide freeze on civilian salaries – has yielded about $54 billion in additional savings over the next five years – savings that include, with some very limited exceptions, a DoD-wide freeze on the number of civilian positions. Several actions do not require budgetary approval and we will begin implementation immediately."

http://www.defense.gov/speeches/speech.aspx?speechid=1527

Anyone out there who is associated with the defense industry knows there are tough times ahead, and for many the tough times have already arrived. The drivel from the left on this issue is just that: drivel. They won't be happy until the defense budget is zero. Fortunately, normal folks have brains so that will never happen.

USNDVR - The DNC has called for an end to DEM & LIBBER references like "LET'S BLAME BUSH!"..every day.....especially after that monumental ass whooping the Democratic Party received on 11/2/10 (just 7 very short months ago)....or the worst "shellacking" (according to Obama) the Democratic Party received in 60+ years........in other words, the American Public now knows who owns this "economy" and whose "wars" (Libya, Yemen, etc.) these are...............didn't you get the memo?

How droll us navy... "from the web" not to much confidence in your sources are you.

Unfortunately for you and your fellow gang members, you ignore the affects of what spending more than what one takes in has on finances in non-recessionary times. Continuing to spend on discretionary programs during a recovery doesn't help either.

Perhaps you can convince obama and company to sell more treasuries to overseas investors. Naturally one will have to sweeten the pot by offerring more than just a 3% return. Wonder if china will start buying again?

Navy,

The "Tea Party" was invented and scared up by big Corporations to do their bidding. First they railroaded and riled up the healthcare debate. By midterms last year they had candidates who would deliver their lines on-stage for them, the same way Palin did in 2008. Then they pumped $$ millions into them - just as Koch Bros did for R-MA Scott Brown.

However, I think the fallout goes beyond what Tea party/Koch/Exxon/Americans for Prosperity and cohorts had in mind.

patHuntingtonNY: I saw Lawrence O'Donnell's segment on this last night. It was such an upbeat story out of New York. It's about equality for all.

Congratulations to all who wrote to their representatives. YOU MADE A DIFFERENCE.

Pat:

Keeping my fingers crossed. I watched Billy Jean King this AM on MSNBC and she gave a scary look at the history on equality. I forgot that there was a time in this country that women could not get a credit card on their own. And here we are today in the 21st century and the GOP/TP wants to take women back to those days of limited rights and being second class citizens.

Why would women want to vote for these people?? I just do not get it.

Amazing news, PatHuntingtonNY. And long past time. Congratulations to all who helped Marriage Equality happen.

Oh, Happy Days Pat!

It's WAAAAY past time! ;o)

And across the country in Seattle Washington we have the gay community again demanding special treatment. The owner of the Space Needle requested that the gay community raise 50K to give to charity in order to fly the gay pride flag on top of the needle. This is standard procedure for groups who want to fly their flags in that location. But the gays feel that it is time to boycott the needle because they feel they deserve to fly their flag without any requirements.

Enough of these special considerations because you're different.

JH-479998: on the wrong side of history.

PatH:

Typical anti-gay position of the GOP/TP. The only equality they understand is from Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionaires and Billionaires. If you do not belong to those groups you are, well just, not equal in the blind eyes of the GOP/TP.

They as a group are anti-gay, they practice religious intolerance, they are anti-union, anti-middle class, anti-reproductive rights, anti-science, hell, they are just about anti-everything that does not support those from Wall Street, Big Business or the 2% crowd.

You are 100% correct, this ideology is on the wrong side of History.

One of the biggest problems in this country is the left and their desire to make all of the rules. What the hell does everybody playing by the same rules have to do with HISTORY?

This ultra liberal administration is going to be the best thing that ever happened to America. We have seen your agenda and it is being soundly rejected at the voting booth.

I heard about the republicans who have decided to vote their conscience for "equality" and not their religious beliefs. Cheers to them.

JH: Can you fly a "freak" flag on the space needle? How much does that cost?

CATHY M.

They normally ask for a donation amount of $75.00 for charity. They were kind enough to wave that fee last year for the gay pride parade group. This year the needle group asked for a reduced amount, $50.00, and the gay group thinks they should be exempt from any charges. They feel we should boycott the Space Needle. Those freaks!I thionk they should take their flag and put it where the sun don't shine but they would probably enjoy that.

JH: Pardon my humor. I was not referring to the gays. When you were speaking of flying flags it just brought to mind that comment from the movie The Family Stone, where Luke Wilson tells Sarah Jessica Parker that her freak flag is showing. It certainly was not meant in reference to gay people. Just caught my attention. I don't live there, and it is not my business, but if everyone else has to pay, I guess that means "everyone" has to pay. Donation seems small enough.

Cathy M,

Not just a movie line; but common vernacular for showing your crazy where everyone can see it. I know it's been out there for at least five years or more. I laughed when I read it. JH and other righties don't 'do' nuance,...so you can't hit the zinger without defining it for them. Small words, lots of punctuation. Just a tip.

Good point, Allen Omaha. Wonder if they'll ask for his long-form birth certificate--I mean, he might not be a "real" American.

That was the essential theme of the special election, I believe- that this piece of legislation would be upheld or fail, depending on who won.

The results are pretty clear. Now that the hysteria has died down, people have had a chance to think, and weighed in with votes.

I expect all the recall elections to keep things mainly status quo- possible exception, the guy who is living with his mistress. Voters do not seem to like messy domestic situations.

no joe, no bo, nj

Nice to see you back No jo, Hope the little darling is getting better, she must be, because you back to disagreeing with me, please give us a update and remember as i said, stay strong for the little one, grandma, nana, granny.

I know you were happy to hear Obama said that 2012 will be his last election win or loose.

I know that made your day!!!!

Jody:

How true. That was not a debate. It was a photo op and Bachmann stole the camera.

As you said before, I did not hear the words "Middle CLass" anywhere in the rhetoric. Maybe I missed it while I dozed off during this joke of a waste of air time.

I expect these pages to be filled with talking points from the Messina clip- you all got it in your inboxes this morning, just as I did. Funny how a two hour debate got reduced to a clip of answers to the idiotic questions- pushing the point that ALL the candidates talked about was Coke or Pepsi, spicy or mild, Palin or Biden.

Kind of leads you to believe there might have been some collusion between CNN and the campaign, does it not?

Kind of leads you to believe there might have been some collusion between CNN and the campaign, does it not?

Always a pleasure to see that the tinfoil hat manufacturers in this country will never go out of business.

Jody, exactly, that "take our country back" slogan burns me up. It's as if the Republicans stopped contributing to solving our problems the moment President Obama took office.

This morning's local paper had an editorial lauding the bipartisan efforts in the Maine legislature that recently passed a bill meant to reduce obstacles to business. They mentioned that the bill started out with "extreme" (their word, not mine, and this is a Republican owned paper), proposals from the governor that would have drastically reduced environmental protections. Because Democrats stood up to the governor, these proposals were dropped and we got a bill that both sides say they support.

This governor is extremely unpopular, and if they had wanted to, Democrats could have just said "No," like the national Republicans, and focused on winning the majority back in 2012, but they didn't, they compromised where they could, and stood their ground where they had to. Would that the national Republicans had put country before Party.

Must have missed FR posters talking about Blackberries or I-phones, Coke or Pepsi. As for my thoughts about it, when I drank sodas, I preferred Pepsi. As for CNN asking "this or that" questions, it was a nice break from the fictional story being presented by the GOPTP candidates.

us navy - nor did I hear the refrain from them for giving more money to the rich at the expense of the poor. perhaps they said this during the 1st 25 minutes?

This first introduction of the great Republican candidates to America shows what great leadership is waiting in the wings for Obama to step down. This was a historic occasion. One of the seven Americans on that stage may well be our beloved, fearless leader for the next eight years.

Kind of makes true Americans all tingly inside. My checkbook is standing by to see who is nominated, and who to throw my full support behind.

Steeler - executives are expected to lead and inspire the troops. In politics it should not be expected that all follow someone in lockstep fashion. Just to bad for obama if he continues on on a campaign trail rather than getting congress to work together and move forward.

Seems that now would be a good time for obama to invite the congressional leadership out for a round or two of golf. You know, pose the problem at 't' off, let them consider the question along the fairway and perhaps have a solution while putting..

Apparently then you missed President Obama and VP Biden playing golf with John Boehner and John Kasich.

Remember how they were all over the President for "dithering" when he took a reasonable amount of time to make such a big decision, sought input from all sides, including the military (and we later learned that he sent them back to the drawing board after an initial failure to come up with any kind of reasonable plan) and then made a policy decision and stuck to it. Knowing all the time but not saying anything about the intensive operation to find OBL (after Bush had abandoned that). Now it is the Republicans' idea to get out of Afghanistan. New Day said it---oppositional behavior.

Exactly Steeler Fan . . . the hypocrisy is breathtaking. . . and yet the media reports it with a straight face . . . just like they are paid to do.

Sad.

Groucho:

Call me cynical, but I just cannot swallow hook, line, and sinker this story about the more mistreated Congresscritters craving more conversations with the President that they tell us daily is destroying America.

Puh-leese.

I guess playing golf together, and being invited to state dinners (didn't Boehner decide to skp that?), and having bi-partisan negotiations ongoing constantly (debt ceiling anyone?), doesn't count.

Communication is a two way street, and the Congress folks have been nothing less than dishonest brokers every since the President was sworn in.

So . . . I hate to do it . . . but I call bullsh!t. :o)

Nashville_fan..

I didn't say it, FR reported it in their summary above and I copied and pasted it.

Complain to them. Tell them it's BS.

Sorry dude.

I guess playing golf together, and being invited to state dinners (didn't Boehner decide to skp that?),

Nash - to date, Boehner has 'skipped' EVERY state dinner...

Says a lot don't it?

Groucho:

I realized that was from First Read . . . and I was calling BS on them . . . nothing personal . . . and I am a woman! :o)

Nashville_fan.

Sorry, seems like we had a failure to communicate.

Apologies, hard to tell from your name.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL..

Yeah, says you didn't read Nashville_Fan's post below and that playing golf WITH THE PRESIDENT has nothing to do with Obama blowing off Congress on Libya.

Again, what does golf have to do with Advise and Consent? Why did the President ignore congress?

Maybe he shouldn't have gone to Puerto Rico yesterday and scheduled a meeting with Congress on Libya.

Groucho:

Now you and I both know that when folks go to the media to complain about advise and consent, that is a political ploy, not a request for a meeting. And we also know that Libya is a NATO operation, not a U.S. one, so there are different standards that apply.

Basically, what we have here, is your classic cheap shot at the President for political purposes. I mean, what pearls of wisdom is Speaker Boehner trying to communicate that are being ignored?

The Congress is begging the President to intervene in conflicts out of one side of their mouths (Iran, Egypt), and criticizing intervention out of the other (Libya).

That's politicis not policy.

Maybe he [Obama] shouldn't have gone to Puerto Rico yesterday and scheduled a meeting with Congress on Libya

Simple Obama priority scheme: Campaigning before Leading

Speaker Boehner is doing his job. Obama started a war, and now the Speaker is requesting justification for it, and for its continued funding. It has nothing to do with doves/hawks, and everything to do with the executive branch being accountable to the checks and balances of the legislative branch.

Senate Lead Reid could and should be doing the same thing, except, Harry doesn't seem to do much these days.

Nashville_fan..

Ma'am.

Under the War Powers Resolution Act, the President can deploy troops for 90 days without consent of Congress. After 90 days, he must request an extension of the act in order to keep our troops deployed. His 90 days is up on Friday and he has not asked for an extension nor advised the Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, what his intentions are. It is advise and consent and it is the law.

Groucho:

I am certainly no military expert, and do not in any way dispute that the President is required by law to consult with Congress on military operations.

My point is simply this: we do not have ground troops deployed in Libya and the public nature of this "request" from Congress smacks of political posturing not military advice.

I would not even be discussing this if it were not for your "Puerto Rico" blast . . . I thought that was a bit much . . . but you are a thoughtful poster and I do appreciate reading your thoughts . . . so I guess time will tell what is really going on with Libya.

Nashville_fan

I was responding to another posters comments about Boehner skipping state dinners and playing golf as a reply as to why the President has not complied with the provisions of the law.

It seemed incredulous to me that rather than blame the person responsible, Obama, it automatically went to a nonsensical comment about the GOP and the Speaker.

If we place blame where blame is warranted rather than based on D or R, perhaps we can finally get something done to move the country forward again.

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) warned President Barack Obama on Tuesday that he’ll be in violation of the War Powers Act if he doesn’t seek authorization for the Libya mission this week, but Boehner has questioned the law’s constitutionality in the past and even voted to repeal the law back in 1995.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57014.html#ixzz1PMGL72py

it automatically went to a nonsensical comment about the GOP and the Speaker.

DO tell - what's 'nonsensical' about pointing out Speaker Boehner has never attended a state dinner?

Sure doesn't demonstrate bi-partisanship if you ask me & contrary to what you think - needs to be exposed!

The truth is the President did speak to both House and Senate members about Libya; Boehner knows it because he was briefed. The Senate unanimously passed S.RES.85 on 3/1/2011 calling for a "no fly zone" in Libya among other things. Jim Webb voted for S.RES.85 as did every other Senator, R and D--yet now they cry "foul". The Libya kerfuffel is Congressional hypocrisy at its finest. Congress was demanding our President do something about Libya. The Senate passed a resolution. When the President did rapidly get a NATO coalition to act, he then is chastised for doing so.

Jody, Iowa and Feisty:

...and the 90 days allotted under the act expires Friday. It either gets renewed for 90 days or it expires. It's the law Jody, not GOP law, US law and why are people debating the necessity for the President to request the extension and advise a bi-partisan Congress what the US policy will be. Do you know what it is? I surely don't and I am curious if we are going to get into another war.

Feisty, this is NOT about bipartisanship. It is not about state dinners or golf. It is about complying with the laws of the United States. Webb, a democrat who in 2008 was being considered for VP or Secty of Defense and campaigned with Obama, is complaining about the Presidents lack of urgency and non communication.

It's the law. Period.

As usual, you Libs have your underwear tied in partisan knots. Speaker Boehner is doing his job. The 60 days of the War Powers Act is expiring, and he's asking the executive branch to explain why it is important to continue. Speaker Boehner penned a reasonable letter to President Obama requesting that information. Obama will respond in kind, and the war will continue. It's an administrative task that needs to be completed so everyone is complying with the law.

Groucho:

The War Powers Act is not nearly as cut and dry as you portray it. As with most things, there are a lot of gray areas created by this 1973 law, and as I posted above, the same John Boehner that is now pretending that it applies to Libya when we do not have troops deployed there voted to rescind the law in 1995.

Based on what I know, this has nothing to do with the War Powers Act, seeing as the U.S. is not at war with Libya.

I'll just leave it at that . . . you have a great day.

While it may seem trivial, Speaker Boehner is third in line to be President. It is part of his responsibility as Speaker of the House to attend important functions such as State Dinners when invited. If he is not comfortable with those responsibilities for whatever reason, he should not be Speaker.

Nashville_fan..

Actually, it is as simple as that.

Regardless of how he voted in the past, it is still the law of the land.

We have troops there in a "support" capacity right now.

You have a great day also.

Jody, Iowa..

Jody, I have no intentions of arguing with you but there is no law on the books that says the Speaker must attend WH dinner functions.

There is a law on the books that the President can't use the powers of his office to keep troops deployed indefinitely.

Have a great day.

GM: but there is no law on the books that says the Speaker must attend WH dinner functions.

State dinners are the perogative of the Executive branch, not the Legislative. Frankly, the cozy relationship between Congress and the Executive branch sometimes gets to be a bit of a concern. If Boehenr wants to break bread with these world leaders, he and them can hit a Quiznos the day after the State Dinner.

§ 1543. Reporting requirement

(a) Written report; time of submission; circumstances necessitating submission; information reported
In the absence of a declaration of war, in any case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced—
(1) into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances;
(2) into the territory, airspace or waters of a foreign nation, while equipped for combat, except for deployments which relate solely to supply, replacement, repair, or training of such forces; or
(3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation;

Based on the highlighted point 2 above, it would seem that troops acting in a "support" capacity are excluded and acting in accordance with the law as written.

Wow! Looks like the FR liberals think that obama is above the law and therefore not beholding to anyone. Must have missed that constitutional debate here in Iowa when the US constitution was changed.

Nashville_fan

it would seem that troops acting in a "support" capacity

..................................................

Thanks for making my point.

What exactly are you defining as "support"? Does it mean there are special forces on the ground "advising" the rebels? Are there CIA operatives on the ground? That would be considered "support".

The President needs to define the terms of this engagement.

I, for one, do not want to get into another war and I want this entire situation explained as required by law.

Groucho:

I don't want another war either. I want the situation well explained and legally authorized as well. What I don't want is folks pretending that political gamesmanship is equivalent to "advise and consent".

Perhaps if the Speaker wants to speak with the President, he could give him a call instead of call a press conference.

Just a thought.

P.S. In terms of all the comments about how the Speaker isn't legally required to attend State Dinners, I will simply say that it is more than a little rich to complain about a lack of outreach out of one side of your mouth, and then shun most attempts at outreach out of the other. I personally don't care who attends what DC hobnobbing session, but since we waste a whole lot of time pretending that the President is "ignoring" the sweet little Congress, I just pointed out that is a bunch of bull.

GM: The President needs to define the terms of this engagement.

It's unclear why NF, and others like her, don't want to follow the law. They take it as a personal afront that someone is asking Obama to justify his war in Libya. Asking the Executive branch, currently run by Obama, to justify the USofA's presence in Libya is the job of Congress. The left-wingers response is "Well, it's not really a war". Sure.

JoAnna:

If the text of the actual law and the fact that the United States has not deployed ground troops to Libya doesn't convince you, nothing will.

Just another reminder why most of your comments are pointless.

JoAnnaSmith1..

Seriously, I don't get it.

Somehow, posters are now drawing a comparison to attending state dinners and complying with the laws of the US. Somehow, ignoring Congress is permissible. Somehow, non-compliance with the law is permissible. According to these posters, this is all "a bunch of bull". Wait, Boehner is impolite. Now I get it.

It doesn't matter how wrong Obama is or what he does, there will always be posters here making excuses for him.

What a sorry commentary on the divisiveness of the parties in this country. Wrong is wrong and no man is above the law.

NF: If the text of the actual law and the fact that the United States has not deployed ground troops to Libya doesn't convince you, nothing will.

Sorry Nashy - You're not a constitutional lawyer, and pulling a snippet of text from somewhere just isn't that convincing. But I'm sure you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

GM: It doesn't matter how wrong Obama is or what he does, there will always be posters here making excuses for him.

And now you know Nashville_Fan's entire act.

Groucho:

It is interesting that you accuse me of "defending" the President, when in actuality, I went and read the law and pointed out that the President is actually following it to the letter.

What is sad is that you are so determined to find a way to prop your "both sides" arguments, that you can "gloss over" all facts that don't support what you are saying.

When the President is wrong, I will say he is wrong. Same goes for you. You have not supported your contentions. Neither has Speaker Boehner or Joanna Smith for that matter.

So in closing, I don't have to "defend" the President, because he is not doing anything wrong. I don't win a door prize no matter how these conversations turn out. I share my opinions and support them as best I can. If I don't know something, I say I don't know versus making stuff up.

My first comment to you commended you for being a thinking American, and I stand by that. However, I would ask that you don't insult me by implying that I am a blind "defender" of anything other than the truth.

Peace.

JoAnna:

Why would I need to be a constitutional lawyer to read a law written in 1973? The War Powers Act is NOT a part of the constitution, but then you knew that right?

I am really happy that you have a new friend to play with around here though . . . and that you think that everyone else has an "act" like you . . . you are really a tragic figure sometimes.

Nashville_fan..

Wow, that escalated fast and for no reason.

Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

If you feel that I offended you, I apologize. That is never my intent and I think you know that.

A very wise woman named Clara told me a week or so ago to calm down, it's only a blog.

Again, we both want only good things for this country and just have a difference of opinion on certain practices.

Hope we're ok.

Groucho:

The "getting to know you" process is always a little bumpy . . . but we are indeed cool. See you around.

A very wise woman named Clara told me a week or so ago to calm down, it's only a blog.

**Blushes** Thanks, GM - I'm glad you two worked it out.

Nash, as always - good points, good research, sane conclusion - thanks!

Great stuff, Groucho. Unfortunately I think we'll see this pattern continue until such time as we can remove the cancer of legalized bribery unleashed by Citizens United.

Speaking of which, how many of us made the connection that Republicans who were willing to overlook David Vitter, John Ensign, Mark Sanford, Larry, Craig, etc. are ALL OVER the Anthony Wiener story because Wiener has been leading the charge on Clarence and Ginni Thomas' corruption? Ginni collected over a half MILLION dollars in lobbying funds within a few short weeks after the Citizens United decision was announced. Clarence himself benefited from a $100,000 advertising campaign from Citizens United in order to push his confirmation hearings over the top.

JUST as the Anthony Wiener situation reached fever pitch the Thomasas released a BUNCH of additional financial information. They've been on the take ever since Clarence was confirmed to the SCOTUS and it isn't going to stop.

Bring back the DISCLOSE Act, and this time push it HARD.

Excellent post, Groucho Marx. This kind of information needs to be presented every day as a reminder to what happens when it no longer is about people but rather about business. The once proud GOP is now the G-SOP (Greedy-Selfish Old Party).

Excellent post, GM.

I hope you haven't revealed too much on the "Governor everyone wants to run,..."

NJNB is going to be mightily disappointed in you putting factoids out there about her new best Governor and Friend. PS. Did you see what he did to education in that state? AND the judge appointed by the Supremem Court basically told him "not so fast, slick!". Of course he had that luxury thanks to Zuckerberg, right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/nyregion/23jersey.html?_r=1&ref=education

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/education/23newark.html

Good times!

"Get ready for a series of GOP governors, like Christie and Perry and in Maine and Florida who will now try to do exactly what Walker did to the unions in their states. The case precedent is there and they've been ready to go for a while, especially Christie."

I hate the NY Jets , but must use the Bart Scott quote: "CAN'T WAIT"

About time! Though, legally, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling has zero impact on other states.

Groucho, Maine's governor infamously signaled his intentions by removing a mural from the Labor Dept that depicted the history of the Labor movement in Maine. Shortly afterwards, someone removed the Open For Business sign he had installed on the Maine turnpike. One wag suggested a ransom note might show up saying "you'll get your sign back when we get our mural back."

Frankly, I think the first action the next Democratic or Independent governor will take is putting that mural back on display. Labor unions have contributed too much to improving the working conditions in this country to be treated like that.

Amy treated like what? Like the rest of us! They are not being asked to do anything but participate in the employment process like the rest of us private employees. P.S. I worked for the State of Maine Telecommuncations Dept for 3 years. I was the "Special assistant to the director of Telecommunications" in Gardiner Me. Just the title tells you what its like to work for the state.

There was a time in this country when most jobs offered pensions, health benefits, and decent wages. Those were the jobs that people strived to get because it assured a families health and future (retirement) But then the employers decided to increase profits on the backs of their employees. The only jobs that still offer these benefits are union and public sector jobs and the republicans are trying to weaken unions so much that they would be ineffective.

I think jollyoldsoul1 maybe you are jealous of the benefits the union members get that your employer probably cut out many years ago to increase their profits.

Talk about "Leading From Behind"!!!

President Bush deferrred to his generals when it came to decisions about Afghanistan and Iraq. At some point shouldn't someone have reminded him that the Constitution made him Commander-In-Chief and that he was in charge of the military and not the other way around?

Mitch. Thank God, unlike you, the rest of the country is tired of the "liberal media" salivating over every inane comment that the quitter makes.

from your quick name calling, its good to see they apparently control you as well. dont worry, perhaps you and your minions can get letterman to make a joke about one of her children sleeping with a professional athlete again. that should make you feel better.

I read those emails and found them so depressing. Clearly, governor of Alaska is a figurehead position and the real "work" is done by aides. I wonder if this is true in other states? Wish we could read other governors' emails to compare and contrast.

Mitch. Name calling? Between you and RVZ we have, minions. bast**ds elitist,snobby, chosen one,wonderfulness.

People in glass houses.

RVZ. Read First Thoughts--the Wisconsin decision has a whole paragraph.

As for union employees, they are not thugs, lazy or useless. They are fire fighters, police officers, teachers, clerks, and most of all they are human beings--something conservatives no longer can claim as an attribute. When a party resorts to demeaning a group of hard working, American citizens who perform a service to others, it has reached the lowest form of being.

RVZ--"I'm fine with name-calling. I can do it better than anyone."

Did I miss the memo of this being Conservative Truth Day?

Perhaps the press is giving her a 'pass' until they unearth the missing items?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/14/2265668/about-one-month-of-palins-emails.html

Or, after a few hours of slogging through inane ineptitude,...they decided the Weiner story really had more interest?

John B, excellent observation. It must be 'opposite' day and we didn't get the memo.

Jody, fiscal conservatives are human beings too. Many of us believe that the personal choices, personal responsibility and accountability and personal contributions we all make should be the way most of us live. We dont think the government should be leveling the playing field in a way that removes these most basic of freedoms and choices. All of us should be accountable for our personal behaviorial choices and accountable for the choices we make. All of us should pay income tax above a certain basic poverty level. I agree that the tax code should be made more fair in a progressive fashion that eliminates all tax breaks including the mortgage deduction but someone who is successful shouldnt pay 50% or more of their income back to the government. All of those people you mention such as teachers, firemen, policemen all made a choice for those professions. If they dont like it, this country allows the freedom to open up their own small business and work hard to succeed in another fashion. There is nothing stopping them. My wife, sister and mom are teachers and they all know they are strangled by the unions which keeps merit pay from becoming a reality. But they chose these professions. Success shouldnt be a shame like everyone on this blog wants to make it. If you have the talent to be the next Albert Pujols or successful doctor or Jennifer Lopez they deserve every penny they make and shouldnt be crucified for doing so by all of you. You guys should be ashamed. You should want the american dream whatever that is and the name calling here is embarassing.

I worked for a company that had both union and nonunion locations. Our COO was a former doorman from a nonunion shop that rose through the ranks based on merit. Do you know what a doorman is at union location after 30 years? A doorman with better hours and seniority. Government regulations already protect all workers from bad working environments, discrimination and all forms of labor disputes. All they do know is make business models uncompetitive and remove merit and extra effort extraneous.

Democrats and republicans are exactly the same and all of you just bloviate the same talking points they tell you too. Do you not think for every Koch brothers on one side there is Soros on the other? Do you not think for every union contribution there is the Chamber of Commerce on the other? The unions would contribute in a second to a republican if they thought they could get taxpayer money voted throught to pay for their own pensions. None of you want to discuss real solutions to our fiscal mess that impacts all of us. Its not about whether Ryan is gutting Medicare (which he isnt and wont) or Obamacare gutting medicare (which it isnt and wont), its about fixing it which wont be easy. Its about choices and sacrifice by all of us. Everyone wants the other person to sacrifice but them. Lets blame the rich right? But they are already paying for everything and providing all the jobs but government jobs and its not a zero sum game.

I welcome the gang of 14 to stop villifying the republicans and the right on here from chastising Obama and stop quoting negative crap and give real positive ideas and proposals. Maybe something will ring true and stick. Next time Navy and Fiesty when you get the urge to name call everyone you disagree with, stop and come up with an idea or proposal. Lets start with Wisconsin, instead of thinking of all the recalls and name calling, since the republicans are in office for the moment, why not think of ways to work with them to make things more better and give it a chance to work. Its no different in my state Illinois where Quinn in my mind has brought us to the edge of ruin but I cant change it as he and his fellow democrats are in power so instead of whining and calling for recalls, I urge my fellow fiscal conservatives to think of ways to work within the system and see if we cant make things work and think of ways to make it better. Maybe I am just pollyanna.

Kirk,

I can think of a number of ways of working with RATIONAL people. The Wisconsin example you cite seems to inherently exclude opening dialogue. But I guess I'm jaded by the amount of time spent on birth certificates, Palinese, teleprompters and the like.

Clara, I guess it depends on your definition of rational. You dont really believe that the left doesnt do the same thing do you? Yes the birther issue was stupid but the politics of destruction goes both ways. Look at Fiesty, Navy, Anna Molly on this blog they say some of the most awful things about candidates they disagree with. Look at the comments about Boehner's tan. Look how the left wing media tore Palin apart because they didnt like her politics. Look how Clarence Thomas is treated. You watch if Bachman gets traction how the knives will come out and instead of arguing political positions they will use every means possible to make her less credible stupid in a way but at the same time the same media reacts in horror if someone asks if Obama was an affirmative action admit to college.

Dont get me wrong, if you want me to list all the horrible things the right wing media says I can do that. It works both ways. I think Wisconsin is exactly how you create dialogue. The democrats had 20 years or more in power and for whatever reason they lost power. Instead of running off to Illinois and avoid their responsibilities, they should have stayed and stopped playing if I can get my way I am going to take the ball and go home. That was spineless. If the republican plan is totally wrong and off base and doesnt work, then they can be voted out in the next election. Thats our system and this recall and all the protests are such a selfish reaction to not getting your way. Its time to work with the system and see if they can do as much for their constituents as possible rather than an all or nothing approach.

I guess this conversation is evolving into how does "MY" candidate best represent my interests? I mean Abraham Lincoln dove out of a window to prevent a vote in the Illinois State Legislature because he believed it didn't represent basic fairness.

I think some of the tone you read on this site is from years of dealing with petty small minds that constantly and incessantly pick at the wall paper and not nearly enough conversation in BIG ideas. Yes, both sides do it. But I have seen nothing in recent history to indicate that Republicans are interested in anything other than power. I DO believe that Democrats are trying to address issues that affect Americans not Corporations.

Your comment that the WI democrats had 20 years in power can easily be translated to Republicans had XX years in power NATIONALLY,...and look what happened.

The stated goals of the republican leaders is to limit Barack Obama to one term. That was it. And their 'legislative' agenda is equally transparent. That's some kind of crazy and quite frankly ANTI American.

PS. You are aware that Ginny Thomas is basically a multi millionaire SINCE her husband became a SCOTUS, right? Nothing fishy about that for you? No impropriety there?

There isn't a Red America or a Blue America - but apparently there is a GREEN America. And I'm not talking carbon footprint.

Your PS is interesting because, you know the Obama's are millionaires since becoming a senator right? You understand Rahm became a multi millionaire after leaving office by making $7 million in one year for Goldman Sachs before becoming Chief of Staff? You understand Harry Reid had nothing before becoming a Senator? For every fingerpointing to one side, their will always be a response because thats how politics works.

I disagree with your position that Democrats want to address the issues that affect Americans but Republicans dont. There are definite social issue differences in the parties I will totally agree with you on that but not on the fiscal issues. I generally agree with the democratic platform on social issues. There are differences of opinions stated by each parties platforms but when each party is called into action, it generally doesnt work the way you planned. Not sure what you mean by 20 years of power nationally because Clinton was in office while republicans controlled Congress and same thing with Reagan and Bush. But lets take a few big issues that are supposedly part of the democratic platform in which you say that have Americans interest and not corporate interests at heart. Welfare reform? Do you remember the screaming by the left that making people work for welfare would put children on the street. Well Clinton adopted the republican platform and it worked. Lets take a more recent two Obama and the democratic congressional bills. Unemployment extension and Dodd Frank bill that prevented banks from charging overdraft fees. Supposedly these were to help their constituents when every study shows that the unintended consequences are far higher than the benefits. For overdraft fees, now instead of charging a fee to those who overdraft the vast majority of which were not poor people who were living pay check to paycheck, banks charge everyone larger fees to have a checking account. Here in Chicago, Durbin is getting lots of flak because its actually had a negative impact on poor people as their total fees have increased.

By the way whats wrong with Corporations? When did they become evil? Are the Bulls evil? They are a corporation. Is Microsoft evil? Are all the corporations George Soros owns evil? Democrats are representing just as many corporations as republicans you have just bought into the talking points of their platform. Unions are really large corporations that have enormous clout all in the democratic party thats not good long term.

And as for the stated goals of the republican party to make Obama one term thats our system. The stated goal of Nancy Pelosi and the democratic party when Bush, Reagan were in office were to make them one term presidents. Give me an example of the legislative agenda that is anti american? Instead of rhetoric lets talk specifics. If you think that republicans only represent money, explain to me why GE and Immelt are so involved with Barack? Explain to me why the CEOs as part of Obama's economic council represent 20% of the job losses in this country over the last 20 years. Do you really think George Soros is doing what he does out of the goodness of his heart? They are all motivated by greed and money. It cuts both ways and I know it makes you passionate about your causes but that doesnt mean the motivations are different.

My PS was interesting; but did my last sentence escape your notice completely? I am not justifying the Dems on this. Money in DC and politics is the root of our national problems. When lobbyists are writing the legislation and the energy policy etc. it is inevitable that perpetuating the power cycle matters.

GREED has historically been the bane of most societies. And Corporations writing legislation to deregulate HAS impact. The cleat marks in your back may be from your own team,...I don't see how we get out unscathed,...

pretty much always 47%, coincidentally, the number of citizens on the dole and work in public sector.

how strange!

Yellowdog-Mark D...

Meant to congratulate you the other day on the Mavs win...they absolutely took it to us and were the better team!!! Liked seeing Dirk and Kidd win titles.

I for one, wish Slick Rick would throw his hat in the ring!

Perhaps then we can all find out about his real tactics...

Full Disclosure: Deficits, Texas last in eduction, high number of uninsured, illegal immigration, his rental properties, and sticking Texans with the bill for his digs http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20100518-Perry-defends-cost-of-rental-home-45.ecele

while the Governors mansion is supposedly being repaired after being torched over 3 years ago!

Thanks Frank. Really happy about the Mavs. Hope both the NBA and NFL get their contract stuff signed or I'm not sure I can make it only watching Politics for entertainment.

With the series over I'm letting go of my Lebron hate/dislike. He really is a "good guy" for a sports athlete. I'm upset that the media is still looking at every word of his and trying to make an issue to make more people hate him. Like J Kidd said, Lebron will eventually get a few championships. Hopefully it is a few years from now. Hey a guy can always dream for a Dallas repeat!

Yeah...unfortunately, that little show they did on ESPN where he announced his Miami move really tainted the public. The guy does a ton of charity work and one thing a lot of people don't even know is that all of the money made from that ESPN announcement show went to charity. He's really a pretty good guy. The irony is that a lot of the charity work he does takes place in Akron, Ohio.

Maybe we'll see each other in the Finals next year!!

Greetings yellowdog - yes it did my heart good to see dallas win.

Yellowdog. I'll add my congrats to the Mavericks. They played as a team with heart and determination. They were the better team and it was great to see them win!

I seriously doubt the US is ready yet for another Texas Governor to be President any more than they want another Bush. While he may look good to conservatives, his secession talk will not sit well with independents and definitely not with democrats. They claim he created a lot of jobs but his state is $26 billion in the red which means the TX economy did not gain from the increase in jobs because of Perry and the GOP policies.

Hey guys - Jody and American; since I've swerved off topic recently about trivial sport type issues, seriously hoping you guys and Iowa are not affected by the Missouri floods.

Grew up in Omaha. My parents say the Missouri has flooded some of the new riverfront development and I know that many smaller towns on both sides of NE and Iowa are a levee breakage away from disaster.

Keep safe.

Bob-188... Yep republicans may still be searching for 'Mr right" and should be in no hurry this year.

What is amazing is that obama has been hitting the campaign trail hard since last november. Wonder if he is worried that the DNC wants to replace him?

Interesting on how obama is much like the roman emperor nero. Nero fiddled while rome burned and obama campaigns while our economy burns.