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Subscribe to RSSLast night’s debate winners: Romney, Bachmann, and the Tea Party… Last night’s losers: Pawlenty, Gingrich, and anyone who wanted a serious, substantive conversation on the economy… Recapping Obama’s economic talk with NBC’s Ann Curry… The president’s day in Puerto Rico… The Biden talks on debt ceiling/deficit restart on Capitol Hill at 2:00 pm ET… Presidential maybe Rick Perry in the spotlight in New York City… And the day after the debate, Romney and Gingrich are in NH, Santorum is in Iowa, and Huntsman (who didn’t participate in the debate) discusses foreign policy with Henry Kissinger in the Big Apple.
*** Last night’s winners and losers: Although last night’s GOP presidential debate in New Hampshire turned out to be standard fare for an early debate -- with no fireworks and no heated exchanges -- we learned some things. One, Michele Bachmann announced she filed her paperwork to run for president (when is the last time that’s happened at a presidential debate? That'll get copied in 2016, mark our words). Two, having previous presidential debating experience like Mitt Romney had certainly helps (though it didn’t end up benefiting John Edwards in ’08 in the long run, just at the very early debates). Three, if you try to pick a fight the day before the debate, as Tim Pawlenty did, you better follow through (or face the post-game consequences). And four, the debate was a contest to prove who was the most anti-Obama, anti-government, and most pro-Tea Party (“Anyone on this stage would be a better president than Obama,” Romney said). Now on to last night’s winners and losers…
*** Practice makes perfect for Romney: The clearest individual winner was Romney. He performed as well as he did at any other debate in 2007-2008, which just goes to prove that practice makes perfect. He was confident and engaged. What’s more, he emerged relatively unscathed -- receiving only fingernail scratches from Rick Santorum (on his authenticity on abortion) and Pawlenty (more on that below). Yet as National Journal’s Reinhard writes, he probably won’t get off as easily in upcoming debates. Perhaps most important for Romney, his message was better tailored to independent voters than the rest of the field (though it was striking that he decided not to criticize Obama’s views on NASA/space, given the industry’s importance in Florida). His most puzzling comment came when he seemed to argue against the Bush Doctrine regarding military involvement in places like Iraq and Afghanistan: "I also think we've learned that our troops shouldn’t go off and try to fight a war of independence for another nation -- only the Afghanis can win Afghanistan's independence from the Taliban." Does he believe this about Iraq as well? If so, we didn’t hear that in ’07-’08. Also, Romney ducked answering the debt-ceiling question and no one followed up on it.
*** Bachmann: The most credible anti-Romney candidate? Another winner was Bachmann, who likely will continue to dominate the anti-Obama one-liners and rhetoric throughout the debate season. As soon as she appeared on stage and as soon as she announced that she filed her paperwork to run for president, the Herman Cain Experiment seemed to be over. She stumbled on the gay marriage answer and muddled her facts on a few issues, but her supporters won't care about that. Just from watching last night’s debate, she has the potential to be the most credible anti-Romney in the GOP field, especially considering the order of the contests with Iowa first. Of course, that’s what Team Romney is hoping for. Indeed, last night’s debate played out almost exactly how we saw it playing out last week -- Bachmann dominated the process of the debate and allowed Romney to "win" it.
*** We’re all Tea Partiers now: The other big winner was the Tea Party. Indeed, it sounded like all the candidates -- even Romney -- were reading off the Dick Armey/FreedomWorks/Americans for Prosperity script. So many of last night’s answers were about what the government SHOULDN’T be doing rather than what it SHOULD be doing (other than get out of the way). But that rhetoric raises this question: If the federal government should stay out of the way -- and if the 10th Amendment is so cherished -- why run for president? Why not stay governor of Massachusetts or Minnesota? One person who struggled a tad on the 10th Amendment talking point was Rick Santorum, even though he's fully embraced much of the economic rhetoric. After all, it’s hard to legislate morality as Santorum wants to do when the GOP sounds more and more like the Libertarian Party. And that has to bring a smile to Ron Paul’s face. Bachmann is as much a social conservative as Santorum in her voting record, but notice her consistency on the 10th Amendment when it comes to gay marriage -- a distinction from Santorum. Though, it was notable how she had to fix her answer three times.
*** The biggest loser: Pawlenty: If there was one big loser last night, it was Pawlenty. Coming into the debate, no one raised the prospect of attacking Romney more than he did (with his “ObamneyCare” line). But when Pawlenty got into the batter's box, he didn't even swing; in fact, he struck out looking. After the debate in the spin room, his campaign dismissed that criticism, saying that Pawlenty didn’t give the answer news outlets were hoping he’d give. But there’s one problem with that explanation: It was the Pawlenty campaign that called SO MUCH attention and promotion to the candidate’s dig at Romney before the debate. Either the candidate doesn't agree with his advisers on strategy or the campaign doesn't agree on strategy; either way, that's not a sign of a winning campaign. Seven months from now, Pawlenty could very well end up regretting this missed opportunity. And it underscores the early challenge for Pawlenty: The Minnesota Nice Guy wants to be the tough-talking Tea Party conservative, but he personally just may not be comfortable in that role.
*** Good Newt, Bad Newt: That brings us to Newt Gingrich. Oh, boy. A week after his campaign imploded, the former speaker delivered a very uneven performance, displaying both Good Newt and Bad Newt. Good Newt: his elegant argument on the space program. Bad Newt: his “loyalty oath” rant on Muslims serving in the U.S. government. “I just wanna go out on a limb here,” he said last night. “I am in favor of saying to people, ‘If you're not prepared to be loyal to the United States, you will not serve in my administration, period.’” More: “We did this in dealing with the Nazis, and we did this in dealing with the Communists. And it was controversial both times, and both times we discovered, after a while, there are some genuinely bad people who would like to infiltrate our country, and we have got to have the guts to stand up and say, ‘No’.” Unfortunately for Gingrich, that McCarthy-like line isn’t going to help him after his rough news last week.
*** The absence of a serious, substantive discussion on the economy: The other big loser of the night was a serious, substantive discussion on the economy. After spending the last few weeks criticizing the Obama administration on this subject, not a single GOP presidential candidate offered a convincing plan on how to create jobs. We heard plenty about lower taxes and less regulation. The problem: Taxes are already at their lowest level since the 1950s, and that hasn’t really jump-started the economy. Moreover, there was little regulation during the Bush administration, and that didn’t produce a wave of jobs between 2001 and 2009.
President Barack Obama and his policies were major topics of discussion at Monday's Republican presidential debate. Among the topics were health care, the economy, gays in the military and Afghanistan. NBC's Chuck Todd reports.
*** Obama talks the economy with Ann Curry: Of course, the GOP candidates aren’t the only ones struggling when talking about the economy. Here’s President Obama’s answer to NBC’s Ann Curry about whether he’s empathetic to out-of-work Americans and angry about their plight: ”I wake up every morning thinking about how can I help that man in North Carolina, or that woman in Indiana, or that family in Pennsylvania, get back on their feet… But what is true is that as president, my job is to make sure that I am finding every good idea that we can to move the country forward.” On if he should have spent more time on the economy rather than health care: “I have to tell you, Ann, everything I thought about, over the first two years was how do we get the economy back on track. That's what we focused on then, that's what we focus on now. But health care is part of our challenge. Because if companies are spending billions of dollars on rising health-care costs, that's money that they're not putting into hiring the workers, or new plants, or equipment.” The president's economic case on health care was a tough sell in 2010, probably tougher now.
*** Obama’s day in Puerto Rico: After spending yesterday in North Carolina and Florida, Obama heads today to Puerto Rico. He arrives there at 11:45 am ET, delivers brief remarks minutes later, sits down for local interviews at 2:55 pm, and attends a DNC fundraiser at 3:50 pm. He leaves Puerto Rico at 4:40 pm, and returns the White House later this evening. As we noted yesterday, the Puerto Rico visit is as much --if not more so -- about building good will in Puerto Rican communities on the mainland (particularly in Orlando and Miami) as it is about the issue of statehood or independence or commonwealth for the American island.
*** On Capitol Hill today: The deficit-reduction talks led by Vice President Biden pick up the pace with three meetings on Capitol Hill this week -- the first starting today at 2:00 pm ET, NBC’s Libby Leist reports. Also today, Senate Democrats hold a press conference to spell out their negotiating position on Medicare changes, per a leadership aide. They will outline what they will and won’t accept in the search for Medicare savings. And Leist notes that freshman Sen. Marco Rubio will deliver his “maiden” floor speech today (more on that in our Congress section).
*** Rick Perry in the spotlight: Presidential maybe Rick Perry keynotes the New York County Republican Committee’s Lincoln Day Dinner in New York City.
*** On the 2012 trail: The day after last night’s GOP debate, Gingrich addressed a small business forum in Concord, NH, earlier this morning… Romney meets with voters in Manchester… Santorum is in Iowa… And Huntsman, who didn’t participate at the debate, holds a foreign-policy discussion with Henry Kissinger in New York City at noon ET.
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 60 days
Countdown to NV-2 special election: 91 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 147 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 237 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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Well, we’ve been introduced to the latest ‘slogan’ from the Party of NO – ‘Failure to Lead’!
The parrots have officially been given their squawking point – wait & see how many times you’ll read it on FR. lol
After watching the debate last night, I determined I squandered 2 hours of my life I’ll never get back!
Nothing like 2 hours chock full of pin the blame on Obama game! Where were their ideas? Plans? Original thought?
What a superb troupe of misfits to choose from!
Decisions, decisions…
Yesterday I asked repeatedly for a Teapublican to post a list accomplishments they’ve achieved since regaining control of the house…*crickets*
It’s understandable they don’t want to draw attention to the destruction they've been up to the last 6 months!
Oh and my original observation of GNOP hopefuls stands!
The Seven Dwarfs & the Nitwit!
Santorum = Creepy
Bachmann = Ditzy
Cain = Cheesy
Romney = Phony
Pawlenty = Frumpy
Gingrich = Sleazy
Paul = Dopey
Huntsman = Drowsy
Bonus points to T-Paw for folding like a cheap suit when confronted on ObomneeCare! lmao
Dee Dee Myers speaks the awful truth, just not as eloquently as Will Rogers did: “I am not a member of an organized political party, I’m a Democrat”.
Anthony Weiner’s refusal to go away is the gift that keeps on giving. (What do you think the odds are that he is really at one of those “adult” resorts in the Carribean for some R & R??) As long as he is around, the Dems are forced to deal with the glare coming from him, instead of their desired messages. Can any of the FR lefty liberals remind me why they were so all hot and bothered by that Congressman from Wisconsin, I think his name was Paul Ryan??
BTW, Shemp Mathews had the best line last night asking House Dem Leader Jim Clyburn “Who do you think will be out of office sooner, Anthony Weiner or Moamar Khaddafy??” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From Politico:
Weiner stepping on Dems' message
By: Dee Dee Myers
June 13, 2011 09:33 PM EDT
As Weiner-gate raged through a third consecutive weekend and into this week, Democrats could only marvel at the perfect storm that has engulfed the nation’s capital and turned their agenda into an afterthought.
From the beginning, Democratic congressional leaders have seemed caught off guard by the sheer velocity of the story — and at a loss as to what to do about it.
Even as embattled Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) was fleeing the flames he ignited, new pictures of the serial sexter surfaced, showing him in various stages of undress in what is presumed to be the House gym. Republicans pounced on a somewhat risky opening, trying to make Weiner’s misdeeds the entire Democratic Party’s problem. For the first 10 days of the scandal, claimed Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus, “the only job Nancy Pelosi was interested in saving was Anthony Weiner’s.”
In truth, no one is trying to save Weiner’s job — except, of course, Anthony Weiner. But Democrats have been utterly unable to make the story go away.
Still got the 'weinee' fixation going on eh Joey?
All weinee 24/7 with you the last couple of weeks...
Envious much?
Last night I watched the GOP/TP Presidential Candidate square off for what was supposed to be a debate on what they were going to do the move this country forward. It turned out to be an announcement that Bachmann is running for President and the rest was a dog and pony show with no real substance at all, none.
I knew it was going to be a long night when Santorum starts out by declaring his vast “executive experience”. When was he a governor and for what State. I thought he was just a Senator? The next thing out of his mouth was that President Obama has stopped oil drilling. Problem is that oil production is up, not down, and the rising costs of gasoline at the pumps are not a demand versus supply problem. The current demand is down and the supply is up and as noted by the CEO of Exxon/Mobile and others the Wall Street Speculators are responsible for about $0.80 per gallon additional costs at the pump. Take these guys out and we have $3.00 gasoline today, but no the GOP/TP is on record that they will protect the Speculators.
T-Paw promotes his current economic proposal that is worse than Ryan’s Bill as his economic solution still claiming a 5% growth for 10 years which is not realistic. He claimed we did this 5% before in history. First we did not and second we never did it for 10 consecutive years. Same lie again wrong on both fronts.
Bachmann lies about the 800,000 jobs supposedly lost by the HCR Bill. Both the CBPP and CBO have exposed this as a lie and the CBO never said it to begin with. These numbers came from a debunked “right wing” think tank and I have written about it here before. You can go look it up on this site or go to CBPP and CBO’s web site. This is a lie.
Santorum and others want to do away with Food Stamp Program hurting millions and millions of low income citizens.
The GOP/TP is back on the “tax holiday” for multinational corporations. This is a Billion Dollar(s) gift to corporations that have not paid their fair share of taxes in this country by hiding them in off shore accounts. Are we seeing a pattern yet??
The GOP/TP wants the whole country to be a “right to work” state that basically destroys “Unions”, period.
Oh, almost forgot – Bachmann also declared President Obama a one term President as well after she trashes the EPA calling it another Job Killing Organization. Poor, Bachmann has this “Job Killing” fetish while offering NO Job Creation ideas of her own – Hypocrite.
After that is was just the same old same old. They want to “Privatize” just about every Government Program from FEMA to Social Security. They want the Generals to dictate to our President when we get out of Afghan. I hate to tell you guys but the President is the Commander in Chief and not the other way around. If the GOP/TP gets their way on this one grandchildren will be in college and we will still be in Afghan.
What was missing from this debate? JOBS, the Economy and Education. I still do not know what they (GOP/TP) will do to create Jobs in this country, what are they going to do stimulate the economy and how are they going to improve education. This was nothing more than the same old same old NOTHING. This was just a bunch of noise with not one detail in the offering at all. This is the same Ayn Rand Ideology that has taken over the new GOP/TP Party. All I got from this is that come 2012 the runners are going to be Romney, Bachmann and T-Paw. That will be the final three and I would not be surprised to see a Romney – Bachmann ticket come 2012. A rematch of the McCain – Palin juggernaut???
This sums it up. This is exactly what the new GOP/TP believes now. That the end justify’s the means no matter how much damage and carnage is collected along the way. As long as Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionaires/Billionaires get theirs who cares about the rest of the 98%. The GOP/TP does not, that is for sure.
Yes.
Joe in Albany==I see you are way off subject. What you didn't see anything good of debate last night? That's because there was nothing good about the people in the debate. It must have smelled like a barn there last night with all the BS being thrown across the stage.
Amazing that not one of the dwarfs would say that they supported President Obama for:
Extending the Bush tax rates or
Killing OBL!
They all looked to each other to see who would jump off the deep end.......
Guess that don't like either one of those policies/accomplishments......
I'll tell you who the biggest loser was last night - this COUNTRY!
If that's the ALL the Teapublicans have to offer - god help us!
Good morning Feisty
Bonus points to T -Paw for folding like a cheap suit when confronted on ObomneeCare! lmao
I did not know it was a suit. It was more like a straight jacket. T-paw couldn't even turn to face his opponent.
I think Weiner's holed up in Madison.
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_0e8a792c-967b-11e0-ab91-001cc4c002e0.html
Republican “Debate” Debacle: There’s No There There
GOP Presidential candidates appearing on stage in New Hampshire last night put on a spectacle, of sorts, “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
None had any answers to the nation’s most pressing issues – just recycled old policies that have failed miserably.
Perhaps the only refreshing moment in the alleged “debate” was when Newt Gingrich at least acknowledged that the Paul Ryan budget proposal is not going to be successful. It would have been better if Gingrich had then said that devoting so much time arguing over that proposal is damaging to the nation’s interests when so many problems demand attention. But of course, he didn’t.
The United States deserves better than this collection of empty suits (and of course one wig on a balloon).
Eventually, the Republican Party will shove forward someone who is a serious candidate, with serious proposals. But so far, the “Grand Old Party” is neither grand, nor much of a party. Just old.
President Hope and Change had a fundraiser in Miami last night, He less than half filled a small concert hall. Not the best start for a man that brags about raising a Billion dollars for his campaign. It’s nice for Obama to think he’s so important, raising a Billion dollars, when many voters that make up his base don’t have two nickels to rub together, thanks to him.
Or perhaps President Obama's supports were busy watching the Republican debate? They're probably looking to make a Change.
Feisty:
Funny, I was thinking about the three stooges;
Moe - Romney
Curly - Bachmann
Larry - T-Paw
This is one lost Party. The same old lies from Bachmann that have been debunked last year. No ideas from them yesterday and even less truth or facts.
I guess I don't understand why you people watched the debate. Your minds are made up. A bunch of "dwarf", "Pygmies", "Stale" , "Pale" blah, blah, blah, candidates who can't carry Obama's jock strap in your minds. So tell me why, my exactly, as has been described here, did you"waste two hours of your life that you will never get back"? Can't be for entertainment purposes, obviously most of you were annoyed by everything that was said. Obviously can't be for informational purposes, since most of you could care less what was said.
So I am curious, why watch at all?
Like the old saying goes - keep your enemies closer...
The GOP/TP has some serious problems when Michele Bachmann can outshine Mittens. She performed better than Palin (although Palin was absent). Pawlenty is not only boring, but is gutless. No guts, no glory.
The attacks on our President was expected. It was also expected that all candidates had a poverty of ideas or solutions. Nothing new coming from this group.
In all seriousness, I blame the ineffectiveness of last night's debate partially on the forum. CNN ran it like a cheesy info-tainment pep rally commercial, replete with irrelevant with time-wasting sports/trivia questions, and even cheering sections in the audience. I was actually holding my breath, waiting for Ron Popeil to suddenly appear with a 10-function slicer-dicer-chopper -- a million dollar value for only $29.95 if you act right now.
I'm old enough to remember when moderators admonished the crowd for making noise and taking away from the message. Last night the message was U-rah-rah, Republicans, and if you want to see some real questions, just watch the live Twitter feed, because they weren't being asked on stage.
I had to laugh when, at the end, the "candidates" even congratulated themselves on answering the questions.
No they didn't.
Don't kid yourself. Quite frankly, who needs Snooki or the Kardashians? The debate was, by far, the best cheap info-tainment on TV last night.
WOW typical Lib....name calling moron...every minute I spend reading a post from the Feisty Redhead, is a minute I'll never get back in my life
I know you are well versed in how to pass a bill and make policy in government...let me assist you red in understanding the process….
Boy: Gee, Bill, you certainly have a lot of patience and courage.
Bill: Well I got this far. When I started, I wasn't even a bill, I was just an idea. Some folks back home decided they wanted a law passed, so they called their local Congressman and he said, "You're right, there oughta be a law." Then he sat down and wrote me out and introduced me to Congress. And I became a bill, and I'll remain a bill until they decide to make me a law.
I'm just a bill
Yes I'm only a bill,
And I got as far as Capitol Hill.
Well, now I'm stuck in committee
And I'll sit here and wait
While a few key Congressmen discuss and debate
Whether they should let me be a law.
How I hope and pray that they will,
But today I am still just a bill.
Boy: Listen to those congressmen arguing! Is all that discussion and debate about you?
Bill: Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones. Most bills never even get this far. I hope they decide to report on me favourably, otherwise I may die.
Boy: Die?
Bill: Yeah, die in committee. Oooh, but it looks like I'm gonna live! Now I go to the House of Representatives, and they vote on me.
Boy: If they vote yes, what happens?
Bill: Then I go to the Senate and the whole thing starts all over again.
Boy: Oh no!
Bill: Oh yes!
I'm just a bill
Yes, I'm only a bill
And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill
Well, then I'm off to the White House
Where I'll wait in a line
With a lot of other bills
For the president to sign
And if he signs me, then I'll be a law.
How I hope and pray that he will,
But today I am still just a bill.
Boy: You mean even if the whole Congress says you should be a law, the president can still say no?
Bill: Yes, that's called a veto. If the President vetoes me, I have to go back to Congress and they vote on me again, and by that time you're so old...
Boy: By that time it's very unlikely that you'll become a law. It's not easy to become a law, is it?
Bill: No!
But how I hope and I pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill.
Congressman: He signed you, Bill! Now you're a law!
Bill: Oh yes!!!
Red, you need approval in both houses and signed by the president.....
REDS COMMENT;
Yesterday I asked repeatedly for a Teapublican to post a list accomplishments they’ve achieved since regaining control of the house…*crickets*...
Red, now sing along with me...
I'm just a bill
Yes I'm only a bill,
And I got as far as Capitol Hill.
Well, now I'm stuck in committee
And I'll sit here and wait
While a few key Congressmen discuss and debate
Whether they should let me be a law.
How I hope and pray that they will,
But today I am still just a bill.
You can all sit here and rant and rave about how there weren’t any ideas but you are WRONG! There were plenty of ideas on that stage as Romney said but no ideas coming from the White House. The ideas may not be what some of you – who think you are high and mighty by trying to dominate this site and think you are the windows to the world LMAO – but they are there and they are places to start to get this country back on its track to prosperity.
Repeal the health care law will create jobs and help preserve Medicare. Loosen regulations, taxes and get out of the way of energy companies, manufacturers and other businesses and let them do their job and America will be back to work again.
If you are predicting that the Republicans will “eat their young” in future debates – you are wrong ohhhh so wrong. Will there be some sniping when it comes down to the two or three top primary winners? Of course there will be like in all primaries. But, the Republican Party – including the Tea Party Coalition – will ban together under one candidate and defeat this One Term President who has failed America. High unemployment, double dip recession coupled this time with inflation, weak dollar, high gasoline prices, high food prices – this president is a one-man wrecking crew of America.
Any one on that stage could beat – even with the baggage each brings -- our failed president and he understands. He knows he failed America. This is the only area that our failed president has a grasp on reality – he knows he is extremely vulnerable. Hence, Puerto Rico and aiming at a $1 billion war chest, but alas Homer Simpson could beat this failed president.
A failed president comments on Weiner – LMAO -- a dick talking about a weiner. A liar commenting on a liar. This is Dr. Seuss’s worst nightmare. This failed president now owns all the problems. No blaming others. No excuses.
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --John Adams, Address to the Military , 1798
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa673.pdf -- Bankrupt Entitlements and the Federal Government
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/bad-medicine-a-guide-to-the-real-costs-and-consequences-of-the-new-health-care-law/
http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/publication/Guessing%20the%20Trigger%20Point%20for%20a%20US%20Debt%20Crisis%208.24.10.pdf
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/08/china-economy-growth-idUSTOE6B706820101208
Here's what one senior Chinese banking official, Li Daokui, had to say about the United States debt situation:
“But we should be clear in our minds that the fiscal situation in the United States is much worse than in Europe. In one or two years, when the European debt situation stabilizes, attention of financial markets will definitely shift to the United States. At that time, U.S. Treasury bonds and the dollar will experience considerable declines.”
Nasty Redhead: You seem to have a Joe in Albany fixation the last couple of weeks. Maybe you should join Weiner and get that obsession some treatment??
Now, excuse me, I need to take a hot shower to get that Nasty loser stench off me.
LMAO@U!!!!!!!
Navy:
You could be right: It might be a Romney/Bachmann ticket.
See what happens when you play with your weinee? ;o)
PS: Stuff IT! I'm not the one who's lead off comment for the last 2 weeks has been ALL about Weiner...
Because we are watching our backs! Who knows what these snakes have slithering up their slimy little sleeves. When Bachman said that the EPA should be called the "Job Killing Administraton" I felt like I was in a dream...a freakin nightmare. Has she not heard of Rocky Flats or Erin Brochovich? People getting leukemia, thyroid cancer, auto ammune disorders and numerous kinds of cancer from companies contaminating our land and water? OMG in Michigan the frogs and fish even have cancer and are mutating because of toxic waste being dumped into the water. How long has this country been industrialized? And how long have we been seeing these devastating affects? So the republicans stand for what? We don't care about our children and their children? Let them eat and drink toxic waste? The world will take care of itself? Drill Drill Drill?
I think Weiner's holed up in Madison.
AM: good catch!! Did you twwet DWS and Pelosi??
Yes, but the founding fathers took care of all that, right after they ended slavery. The air is clean and the water is safe, thanks to the benevolent private sector. So what's your problem?
Yes, as long as gas is cheap and my taxes don't go up.
I don't tweet anymore. Why don't you go ahead and do that? I'm sure they'd be grateful.
Once again, the Liberals are looking to the Republicans for some kind of answer to a problem they are incapable of solving. Obama hasn't come up with a convincing plan to stimulate the economy (see 9.1% unemployment rate for details) and now the media is shrieking that the GOP should clean up his mess. To Liberals, they have this inherent notion that the “government creates jobs”. It doesn’t. It just takes money from one group, and gives it to another group. Liberals think picking winners and losers in the free market creates jobs. They are wrong, it just moves the jobs around, and in fact, it more than likely destroys a few jobs in the process.
The debate was very interesting. It will be nice when the Republican field narrows. Giving candidates 30 seconds to respond is ridiculous and is neither fair to the candidates nor to those trying to honestly evaluate them.
In my opinion the winner was Ron Paul. As is so frequently the case, those of a libertarian stripe are not afraid to tell the truth. He is absolutely correct that the housing market must equilibrate. Prices still do not reflect true value. He is also correct about our foreign adventures. His counterparts were terrified of taking a position and mealy-mouthed the issue by saying they'd really have to listen to the military. Dr. Paul correctly observed that as President he is the Commander-in-Chief. He makes the decisions. Gotta love it.
The biggest surprise was Bachmann. She was ready with her red meat talking points. Most were silly, but they have great appeal to the extremist element in the party. She touts her experience as a tax attorney, and then throws out the totally bogus "corporate tax rate". It's the second highest in the world, you know? Gosh, with GE paying nothing, it seems to me that's about as low as you can go. Zero, right? She did show why she will be the only woman in the race. She has the discipline necessary to do her homework. Palin does not.
Cain and Santorum are jokes. Cain speaks in generalities and brings that CEO type mentality to the game. "I am da boss." There are about 535 Congressmen ready to show him otherwise. He also talks about "common sense" and making the "right" choices. Gee, that's not at all subjective, is it? Santorum is just an empty suit.
Pawlenty is busy demonstrating that he has been on the far right and can't get much further right without falling off the edge of the world. BUT, he has also been a union guy. He also fully supports women's' rights by working to take them away and interfering in every part of their lives and their bodies.. He doesn't have the guts to confront Romney about Obamney Care.
Romney is the Republican no-drama, polished executive. Gosh, when it comes to health care, if only Obama had called him, Romney could have explained there wasn't a gnat's ass worth of difference between the two. He worked very, very hard to avoid taking any concrete positions and assiduously held the Republican line that even though he couldn't say what he would do, whatever it was Obama was doing - well, it was just wrong.
Gingrich has a terrible background to explain. Three wives, cheats on two of them, and now is a bona fide child of God. He has experience on Capitol Hill and he knows that a great deal of what was being said was hogwash. It was almost painful to watch him try NOT to tell the truth.
They like to about impediments to free trade - unaware that the Framers clearly contemplated barriers to free trade. In our Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1 grants Congress the power to lay taxes, duties, imposts, and excises. By golly, they even levied a tariff back in 1789.
Atheists have to be shaking in their boots after listening to these guys talk about the candidates' versions of Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism, God's chosen people, and how God's hand guides them, and should be guiding the rest of us, and especially those durned Muslims, don'tcha know.
They still haven't offered a worthy alternative to President Obama.
How exactly will repealing HCR create jobs and preserve Medicare?
And we see how much value loose regulations and lowering taxes has had in the past decade - lets do it again! I forget how much has Obama raised your taxes or the company you work for?
Reminds me of someone repeatedly walking nose first into a wall - bouncing back and walking into the wall again.
Ya and as long as the illegals are building their roads so they can drive their Beemers on and the whole time bitchin about the potholes.
Excellent point JoAnna!!!!
LoL You could have heard a pin drop when he said that. Quite frankly, the others had no idea what to make of it.
All you need to know from last night's debate are two things on which they all evidently agree: abortion and gay rights. I was frankly surprised to hear such virulence about DADT.
In the absence of any concrete ideas for fixing the economy, and no real foreign policy debate because they have no one qualified on foreign policy issues, you can expect Republicans to begin focusing on the wedge issues soon enough. Just add immigration, voter rights, and guns to abortion and gay rights, and you'll have your complete wedge salad for 2012.
Repeating The False Message
Last night’s debate was so preditable; talk Medicare. social security elimination, and cut Taxes for the rich. Instead of knocking each other out the box and the front runner Mitt Romney, they bashed President Obama. Each one tried to out do each other with the President Obma bashing and lamenting.
Oh, the remorse, I wonder how much did they pay that pollster, Frank Luntz, to drop that lame talking point “government take over” to-- “He [President Obama] made it worse”?
You’d think they created REAL WEALTH for the time during the 2 Bush administrations. Or could create a better scenario. No they couldn't. The repeated what they’ve been saying all along, the same, old. dumb, talking points which they have not learned yet i.e. their plans failed and will not create an economic scenario conducive to jobs. While they spend Millions and Millions of dollars and failed miserably at creating permanent JOBS they criticize a PRESIDENT who saved this country from a near depression. A little fact checking would prove it.!!!
Tim Pawlenty and Mitt Romney didn’t lock horns over health care.Tim Pawlentychickened out. Herman Cain was still stuck on stupid as he stood there figuratively holding a lantern for the lily white audience to his non-existent foreign policy. I kept laughing to my self think a banjo would be better for your audience Mr. Cain. This is not racist. I only saw one person of color last night ; and that was Herman Cain. If any one else saw another person of color ; please correct me. He really stepped in it trying to clarify his Anti- Muslim stance and lack of foreign policy experience; of which 10 minutes of the 2 hours was spent on the subject. Newt Gingrich flipped on Ryancare bashing it again. Ron Paul made more sense than his colleagues on stage because of thee military industrial complex not working stance.
I was surprised that Michele Batwoman, the top cuck coo had her straight face on and was not quite as obnoxious did okay until she said -- “President Obama is a one term President. I was expecting her to look for the "Liberty Bell" in the auditorium instead of the camera when she said that to expound on the freedoms President Obama is depriving her of.
Conclusion: Those Republicans were stupid fools for going on CNN. CNN is not FOX NOISE. CNN's mission is to make Republicans look like fools.
FOR the GOP/T-PARTY clowns" Coke or PEPSI, SPICY OR MILD, DEEP DISH OR THIN CRUST?
@Mike -- Repeal HCR and businesses big and small will begin to hire instead of holding back. Read:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/bad-medicine-a-guide-to-the-real-costs-and-consequences-of-the-new-health-care-law/
It will also save the $500 billion the HCR rips from Medicare.
The free market works. Always has and always will. Are there dips on occasion? Yes. But we have to get back to the principles of government getting out of the way of progress.
WCA. I watched both the republican and democratic debates in 2007 and 2008 and I will watch them this year and next as well--because inquiring minds want to know; politics is not just about absorbing only ideas from one side and ignoring the other. The problem in this country today is the unwillingness to compromise and take the best ideas of both to solve problems. As long as we continue to fight one another instead of fighting the problems, this country will continue to limp along.
Briefly Newt Gingrich displayed honest and reasoned thinking about solving the immigration problem. Romney continues to deny his own best achievement. Pawlenty could not look Romney in the eye and answer a question about calling it ObamneyCare but briefly, he mentioned unfair trade agreements which is true but it takes two parties to fix. Paul is an ideological purist and purity never achieves results. Cain revealed his anti-Muslim side again. Santorum simply lied. Bachmann was occasionally lucid but mostly was just Bachmann and not serious. Briefly, several displayed thought but never thought beyond what is accepted GOPTP ideology. Too bad Gary Johnson was not there--he at least shows signs of thinking outside the GOPTP litmus box.
2 reasons why I think Romney lost last night and will never be this country's President.
1. mockingly telling Obama congratulation for killing OBL. That was chilling.
2. he would not raise the dept ceiling because of spending cuts and allow the country to default on it payment........what? This, I just can't get over. The thought of defaulting and the calamity that follows..........
White Collar Auto, I DIDN'T watch the debate. Listening to Bill Bennett get all hot and moist about it this morning confirmed that not watching was an excellent choice on my part. These people are the 7-Up caucus - never had it, never will!!
@Pius -- But doesn't raising the debt ceiling show a failure in leadership ala Sen Barack Hussein Obama?
Ben: Did I read that correctly? You're citing Cato as proof that the health care reform bill will cost jobs?
LoL You realize, of course, that Cato is just another propaganda arm of the Koch brothers and their intellectual peers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute
Here are a few other ideas that Cato espouses:
I'm sure Cato believes that abolishing the minimum wage would also save jobs. Are you for that, too?
Bev:
Great post this morning and right on point.
Also that $500 Billion comes from the savings in redoing the Medicare Advantage Program that does nothing to improve Medicare. All it did was give free money to the Insurance Companies for very little or no benefit to the beneficiaries, hence President Obama got rid of that $500 Billion and it has NO effect on the quality of care to the beneficiaries one iota, it was waste pure and simple.
@Anna Molly -- I don't give two plug nickles about the Koch Brothers like you don't care about rants and raves on George Soros. I also quote the Cato Institute -- much more reliable than stink progress et. al. -- instead of wikipedia. Really? Seriously? Nothing on wiki can be seen as factual.
The First Read site has become nothing but a copy-and-paste fest from thinkprogress, but what gets Annie in a lather? Someone with the gall to make a slight reference to a non-Liberal website.
Too funny.
See this link for the fact-check on last night's debate. It looks like Romney really held his own in the Big Lie competition.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/factchecking-the-gop-debate-in-new-hampshire/2011/06/13/AGYXjGUH_blog.html?hpid=z1
"The other big loser of the night was a serious, substantive discussion on the economy. After spending the last few weeks criticizing the Obama administration on this subject, not a single GOP presidential candidate offered a convincing plan on how to create jobs. We heard plenty about lower taxes and less regulation. The problem: Taxes are already at their lowest level since the 1950, and that hasn’t really jump-started the economy. Moreover, there was little regulation during the Bush administration, and that didn’t produce a wave of jobs between 2001 and 2009."
To me, this is what the election is going to be about. Whether on-the-fence GOP voters blindly choose to not believe these facts. I dont think anyone denies on the left or right that some fat government needs to be cut, and that is happening. However, you can't cut and not raise taxes too. Any the finance, banking, housing, wall st. auto industries cannot be allowed to continue to run unregulated just to create more economic disasters, so regulation is necessary. More regulation means more govt jobs are created, which requires increased taxes. The low state taxes and state revenue that were off-set by federal monies are dwindling. Conservative state law makers can no longer afford to campaign on low taxes at the expense of the fed handouts to keep their states above water. Both state and federal taxes are going to need to be raised, and those with the most should pay the most to the country that got them there.
"Moreover, there was little regulation during the Bush administration, and that didn’t produce a wave of jobs between 2001 and 2009."
Perhaps it was not as bad as the media likes to portray;
According to the government's own Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) site, there were 136,891,000 people working in 2000 (Clinton's last year), and 145,362,000 people working in 2008 (Bush's last year), for a net gain under Bush of 8,471,000 jobs.
In 2010, there were 139,064,000 people working, for a net LOSS of 6,298,000 jobs under Obama.
Perhaps we should ask Bush to come back. The link to the government's job site is;
http:/www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf
Not Racist!?!?!?!
You ma'am, are very racist indeed. Adding "This is not racist" is like Hilter telling the Jews "this was not murder"
Maybe this is the problem. When our own fellow Americans are viewed as "enemies" because we have different ideas about how to be America, we have some serious issues. I do not view liberals as my enemy. We're more like siblings who fight alot, but still love each other. Never are we enemies.
This is our future, and their is noting funny about it. Seven dwarfs, how old are you kids? This is very discouraging.
@thetotas -- Maybe since they are so full of it, she should be saying "keeping our enemas closer." LMAO.
Well, I havent heard anything from the Democrats camp on these issues either. Obama's foreign policy is even more of a joke. We are in Libya and Yemen now. The liberals like to speak of Bush's "illegal wars". Well, Libya and Yemen are truly illegal since Congress wasnt even consulted and the War Powers Act was completely ignored.
Most people agree that 2 1/2 years is ample time to gauge progress on policy. And its obvious that Obama's economic policy is failing now that we are regressing once again. He has filled his cabinet and choosen to surround himself with tax cheats and academics. Yet, they are attempting to create business policy without any business experience themselves. Obama finally tapped Immelt, but thats saying little since GE is the master at tax avoidance.
Here we have GE and their 350 lawyers on the job to do nothing but figure out ways to avoid taxes. We have the greatest speculator of all, George Soros, helping spectulate the run up in energy costs on Wall Street on the backs of the consumers. For some reason, the libs turn a blind eye to all these things.
I dont know. GE, Immelt, is Obama's BFF. That alliance is fishy to me.
Asian countries are luring American companies there with no taxes for 10 years. How do we compete with that? We have no choice but to lower the corporate tax rate. At a 35% rate, cheating is actually encouraged. Its human nature. Bring that rate down to more affordable levels and the instinct to cheat isnt as prevalent.
I love the liberals insistence that we raise the tax rates as ways to boost revenue. They like to point to the 50s when rates were 90% and we were booming. You know, I will try to be a little progressive here and tell you that times have changed. In the 50s, and even the 80s, we didnt have the global economy threat like we do now. When Asian countries are luring American businesses with no taxes for 10 years, we have serious competition now. This competition didnt exist then. The businesses pretty much had to do what our government told them to do. Now? Not so much. Antagonize them, and they will just take their ball to Asia and we will be left with nothing. You may not like it, and I may not like it, but businesses have alot more options now than to just sit there and take it from the American government. We need to compete with Asia.
Excellent post above. My take, I was so mad at myself for actually watching that fake debate, it kept me up half the night! Bachmann became the Offical Cheerleader in Chief for the Tea Party, asuring she has zero chance of even becoming the VP candidate. Most polls say Ron Paul won, the only guy with ideas and backbone, crazy ideas, but ideas none the less. I only agree with him on getting out of the stupid wars and not going into any others. Romney is just the same old plastic man, with the same old ideas. I almost fell off the couch when Santorum actually said, "We need to have a 5 year moratorium on taxes on all businesses', and actually used the words, "trickle down" in a sentence! Really? Loser! T Paw, what a wimp, wants a National law to make all states "right to work states", bringing on the final demise of all unions. These Tea nuts will be the death of our nation, taking us back to Civil War days. Waste of my precious time!
Anna Molly, I'd also noticed that Ben's links are all from Cato Institute. In case anyone wonders why this is significant;
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Cato_Institute
And yet Ben defends them as factual. Perhaps he's one of the bloggers that Cato sponsors. Notice how he claims not to know or care about the Koch brothers while using them as a source. Most like him pretend they have no idea what Rush, Sean, Glenn, et. al. are saying at any given time. There's also a kabuki dance claiming that there's a whole universe of Conservative sources out there. Mostly it's just an echo chamber that circulates the same talking points;
The message here is that it pays to do a little cross check the sources being used.
I'm not sure who the GOP will run for President but I am sure that it will be an old, rich, white guy. It always is.
Poor Michelle, Perhaps you could have spent the time cleaning your house and doing laundry!
No winners.
Agreed. But the country lost. No ideas, either.
I think both parties are lacking in ideas. The Republicans want to double down on supply-side theory while Democrats keep pushing more demand-side solutions. It looks to me that both theories have failed over the last five years.
What I would like to see is some adult solutions based around a reform of the tax-code, with the objective of raising revenues, lower rates and closing of loopholes seem to be the way to go for both corporations and individuals. For corporations tax-breaks and subsidies, ethanol for example, must phased to promote market solutions not business cronyism.
A complete review of the DOD is required with a new philosophy as what our commitments around the world should be. This has to be led by the President, whoever he is. The objective of this should be to reduce costs within a strategic framework of our new responsibilities. The three (four) wars should be wound down as quickly as possible (and what are we now doing in Yemen?).
In the same vein a comprehensive review of entitlements must be performed to communicate to people what their contributions actually can afford them in retirement. A system in which the average person contributes $50K and receives 150K is simply not sustainable nor fair for future generations.
I wait for a candidate who starts this conversation.
Ol frothy Santorum even said "trickle down" last night. I laughed out loud.
But now we know who likes deep-dish pizzza, spicy chicken wings, and Coke instead of Pepsi.
I lost track--are they running for President of the United States, or president of Pathological Liars of America?
I understand why Conservatives are confused about the complaint that Republicans don't have any ideas, the thought is incomplete.
The GOPTP has no ideas THAT ACTUALLY WORK.
Alan...
Not a thing I could add to that post...perfectly stated!
John B:
You hit it right on the head. Not one mention last night of what the GOP/TP is going to do to create Jobs in this country, to stimulate the economy or improve education. They are stuck in tax cut mode only which does not work. Al we have to do is look at the last ten years - PERIOD.
They are back on the "Tax Holiday" to reward thsoe multinational companies for not paying their fair share of taxes here in this country.
Again, it is all about Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionaires/Billionaires and the he!! with the rest of the country. This is their end agenda and they do not care what damage or carnage they leave behind as long as the 2% get theirs (actually theirs and ours also).
They have nothing except the same lies about HCR, JOBS, the Economy, etc.
This 1930's European Ideology IS going to come home to roost and the GOP/TP is not going to be happy when it does.
Frank...
And with all the name calling it worse than kindergarten. Now is the time for someone with big ideas to step up. As I say someone who can articulate our role in the world in the 21st century. Someone who can come up with a framework for what the government will be responsible for and what an individual must do on their own.
I find the President's style very frustrating. It seems the phrase "Leading from the Back" sadly true and inappropriate for the times.
And to our left wing friends on the demand side of the equation, the WPA did not work FDR and there is no reason to think it will work in this century.
1/20/2013 - The end of an error
I'm pretty sure the left wishes they had a somewhat viable candidate.
Repeating The False Message
Last night’s debate was so preditable; talk Medicare. social security elimination, and cut Taxes for the rich. Instead of knocking each other out the box and the front runner Mitt Romney, they bashed President Obama. Each one tried to out do each other with the President Obma bashing and lamenting.
Oh, the remorse, I wonder how much did they pay that pollster, Frank Luntz, to drop that lame talking point “government take over” to-- “He [President Obama] made it worse”?
You’d think they created REAL WEALTH for the time during the 2 Bush administrations. Or could create a better scenario. No they couldn't. The repeated what they’ve been saying all along, the same, old. dumb, talking points which they have not learned yet i.e. their plans failed and will not create an economic scenario conducive to jobs. While they spend Millions and Millions of dollars and failed miserably at creating permanent JOBS they criticize a PRESIDENT who saved this country from a near depression. A little fact checking would prove it.!!!
Tim Pawlenty and Mitt Romney didn’t lock horns over health care.Tim Pawlentychickened out. Herman Cain was still stuck on stupid as he stood there figuratively holding a lantern for the lily white audience to his non-existent foreign policy. I kept laughing to my self think a banjo would be better for your audience Mr. Cain. This is not racist. I only saw one person of color last night ; and that was Herman Cain. If any one else saw another person of color ; please correct me. He really stepped in it trying to clarify his Anti- Muslim stance and lack of foreign policy experience; of which 10 minutes of the 2 hours was spent on the subject. Newt Gingrich flipped on Ryancare bashing it again. Ron Paul made more sense than his colleagues on stage because of thee military industrial complex not working stance.
I was surprised that Michele Batwoman, the top cuck coo had her straight face on and was not quite as obnoxious did okay until she said -- “President Obama is a one term President. I was expecting her to look for the "Liberty Bell" in the auditorium instead of the camera when she said that to expound on the freedoms President Obama is depriving her of.
Conclusion: Those Republicans were stupid fools for going on CNN. CNN is not FOX NOISE. CNN's mission is to make Republicans look like fools.
FOR the GOP/T-PARTY clowns" Coke or PEPSI, SPICY OR MILD, DEEP DISH OR THIN CRUST?
Collapsed in the "Feisty posts" was this insightful recap and analyses of the debate.
You all should read it. He is an Obama man.
David, thanks for the post. I thought it was exceptional.
David Walker
The debate was very interesting. It will be nice when the Republican field narrows. Giving candidates 30 seconds to respond is ridiculous and is neither fair to the candidates nor to those trying to honestly evaluate them.
In my opinion the winner was Ron Paul. As is so frequently the case, those of a libertarian stripe are not afraid to tell the truth. He is absolutely correct that the housing market must equilibrate. Prices still do not reflect true value. He is also correct about our foreign adventures. His counterparts were terrified of taking a position and mealy-mouthed the issue by saying they'd really have to listen to the military. Dr. Paul correctly observed that as President he is the Commander-in-Chief. He makes the decisions. Gotta love it.
The biggest surprise was Bachmann. She was ready with her red meat talking points. Most were silly, but they have great appeal to the extremist element in the party. She touts her experience as a tax attorney, and then throws out the totally bogus "corporate tax rate". It's the second highest in the world, you know? Gosh, with GE paying nothing, it seems to me that's about as low as you can go. Zero, right? She did show why she will be the only woman in the race. She has the discipline necessary to do her homework. Palin does not.
Cain and Santorum are jokes. Cain speaks in generalities and brings that CEO type mentality to the game. "I am da boss." There are about 535 Congressmen ready to show him otherwise. He also talks about "common sense" and making the "right" choices. Gee, that's not at all subjective, is it? Santorum is just an empty suit.
Pawlenty is busy demonstrating that he has been on the far right and can't get much further right without falling off the edge of the world. BUT, he has also been a union guy. He also fully supports women's' rights by working to take them away and interfering in every part of their lives and their bodies.. He doesn't have the guts to confront Romney about Obamney Care.
Romney is the Republican no-drama, polished executive. Gosh, when it comes to health care, if only Obama had called him, Romney could have explained there wasn't a gnat's ass worth of difference between the two. He worked very, very hard to avoid taking any concrete positions and assiduously held the Republican line that even though he couldn't say what he would do, whatever it was Obama was doing - well, it was just wrong.
Gingrich has a terrible background to explain. Three wives, cheats on two of them, and now is a bona fide child of God. He has experience on Capitol Hill and he knows that a great deal of what was being said was hogwash. It was almost painful to watch him try NOT to tell the truth.
They like to about impediments to free trade - unaware that the Framers clearly contemplated barriers to free trade. In our Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1 grants Congress the power to lay taxes, duties, imposts, and excises. By golly, they even levied a tariff back in 1789.
Atheists have to be shaking in their boots after listening to these guys talk about the candidates' versions of Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism, God's chosen people, and how God's hand guides them, and should be guiding the rest of us, and especially those durned Muslims, don'tcha know.
They still haven't offered a worthy alternative to President Obama.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community
Well, we’ve been introduced to the latest ‘slogan’ from the Party of NO – ‘Failure to Lead’!
The parrots have officially been given their squawking point – wait & see how many times you’ll read it on FR. lol
After watching the debate last night, I determined I squandered 2 hours of my life I’ll never get back!
Nothing like 2 hours chock full of pin the blame on Obama game! Where were their ideas? Plans? Original thought?
What a superb troupe of misfits to choose from!
Decisions, decisions…
Yesterday I asked repeatedly for a Teapublican to post a list accomplishments they’ve achieved since regaining control of the house…*crickets*
It’s understandable they don’t want to draw attention to the destruction they've been up to the last 6 months!
Oh and my original observation of GNOP hopefuls stands!
The Seven Dwarfs & the Nitwit!
Santorum = Creepy
Bachmann = Ditzy
Cain = Cheesy
Romney = Phony
Pawlenty = Frumpy
Gingrich = Sleazy
Paul = Dopey
Huntsman = Drowsy
Bonus points to T -Paw for folding like a cheap suit when confronted on ObomneeCare! lmao
Beverly in Chicago
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community.
First read the David Walker post, which is a detailed summary and opinion piece, re-posted by Groucho.
Now compare that to the deep analysys offereb by Feisty. One word name calling with no specifics or detail. Perhaps this community is tired of this tripe.
@ Bev - Thanks GF!
After the carnival last night - it's a GREAT day to be a Teapublican isn't it?
They just can't HELP themselves! lol
Perhaps YOU need to go back and read the First Amdendment - if you don't like it DON'T READ IT!
Judging from the number of votes YOU my friend are the minority!
“Tea Party Clout?” It’s Not a Very Big Stick
Far too many people – including the GOP House leadership – roll over and play dead when confronted by Tea Party officeholders pursuing their rigid ultra-right-wing political agenda.
Why? The Tea Party is, in fact, a very loud but tiny sliver of the American body politic, and doesn’t deserve the alleged “clout” it wields.
Just look at the numbers: Tea Party members of Congress account for about 5% of the membership, and only 8% of Republican seats.
In the 2010 elections, exit polls – and polls since – showed that barely 22% of voters identified with the Tea Party – while 56% said they didn’t care about it at all.
One important update to that particular figure is that the Tea Party’s hijacking of the national agenda is now driving people away from the Republican Party. A surprising number of former Republicans are now re-registered as Independents, while many Republicans that have stayed in their party have said they will not vote again for the right-wing ideologues.
Recall elections in Wisconsin may return the state senate to Democratic control. The Wisconsin governor is certain to face a recall as soon as his protected first year in office is over.
Lawmakers in Florida were presented with more than 25,000 petition signatures to extend recall laws to statewide office – to target deeply-unpopular Gov. Rick Scott.
Rep. Michelle Bachmann may be a darling of the Tea Party, but that hardly is an endorsement as far as the rest of the country is concerned. And that goes for the rest of the empty suits in last night's alleged "debate."
Rather than spend an evening watching the debate while hunched over a bucket waiting to vomit, I elected to drag my friends out to dinner. Talk got political, and the comment came up that all of us in the streets - liberal and conservative alike - are standing on the outside of an insular biodome our would-be leaders dwell within, banging on the glass and shouting our lungs out to (for the love of God) drop the pretense and actually do something.
Call me when they're done jockeying for position. Can't wait to slog down to the polling station and yank the lever for Wimp or Shrimp.
It was all a load of BS, lies all over the place, old talking points long since dispelled and NO NEW IDEAS.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
if you don't like it DON'T READ IT!
Judging from the number of votes YOU my friend are the minority!
..................................................................
I didn't read your post, I read Mr. Walkers and was disgusted to see that it was collapsed with yours. It is articulate and I thought a must read and I'm not an Obama guy.
Judging by the votes and the reaction of the community, your comments were collapsed again. Does it take a ton of bricks to fall on you that people are questioning you constant name calling and ridicule.
Please, read David Walkers post. That's how you comment.
Not Racist!?!?!?!
You ma'am, are very racist indeed. Adding "This is not racist" is like Hitler telling the Jews "this was not murder"
"Moreover, there was little regulation during the Bush administration, and that didn’t produce a wave of jobs between 2001 and 2009."
Perhaps it was not as bad as the media likes to portray;
According to the government's own Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) site, there were 136,891,000 people working in 2000 (Clinton's last year), and 145,362,000 people working in 2008 (Bush's last year), for a net gain under Bush of 8,471,000 jobs.
In 2010, there were 139,064,000 people working, for a net LOSS of 6,298,000 jobs under Obama.
Perhaps we should ask Bush to come back. The link to the government's job site is;
http:/www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf
So which is it?
For someone who can't stand me - you sure spend a heck of a lot of time stalking me! ;o)
I'll tell you who the biggest loser was last night - this COUNTRY!
If that's the ALL the Teapublicans have to offer - god help us!
Feisty.....You only got one vote yourself and you were "collapsed by the community" for the billionth time....how's that 1st Amendment thing working out for ya?.......do they have your number here or what!
That's a capital "G" to you -- God. The biggest loser has been this country and the failures of the current person in the oval office.
Roy,
From your link. The data is of Jan 01 of each year:
Jan 2001 = 136,933,000 & Jan 2009 = 139,877,000 so
the jobs created were 2.9 million not the 8.5 Mil you claim
Also Jan 2009 = 139,877,000 & Jan 2010 = 139,064,000
so that is 800k jobs lost not the 6.3 mil you claim
The driving force in this economy has been supply-side economics since 1980, and you think a 2 year attempt to shift to demand-side economics, with the House Republicans blocking every move would reverse the damage done? Tell me something; without increased demand is it possible for the economy to grow? Without increased middle-class wages is it possible to create demand? Unless of course you believe in outsourcing everything...including demand. In my personal opinion, the Republicans and the corporations have given up on the American people and are looking to foreign markets and production to further engorge themselves.
I was very surprized (and pleasantly so) to hear about Romney's view of the use of the military. Seems to wants to fight Ron Paul for the non-interventionist vote. He won't get it of course, Dr. Paul has had this block of votes locked up for years. Still, nice one Romney.
"Figurative holding a lantern"? "A banjo would be better for your audience"? Despite your protestation and "let-me-get-in-front-of-this" claim to the contrary, Beverly, you ARE a big old freakin' racist even with your liberal progressive sheep's clothing on. Those are some of the most hateful, caricature evoking, racist words I've heard since Harry Reid said most blacks can't speak regular English.
Nice catch, Dennis. It's worth elaborating that employment increased by 2.1% over the GW Bush administration while population increased by 9.7% between 2000 and 2010. Apologies for not being able to track down population numbers that more precisely coincide with the Bush tenure, but any way you slice it it's still the most anemic performance since Herbert Hoover.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
@ Bev - Thanks GF!
You're welcome.
I saw that @ Media Matters and Newsone.
Fox Host: Obama Has “Hoodlums” In The “Hizzouse”
http://newsone.com/nation/just-curious-nation/casey-gane-mccalla/fox-news-eric-bolling-obama-chuggin-40s/
Eric Bolling is vying with Judge Neopliunia to replace the Arch Racist, Glenn Beck.
Fox Attacks: Black America
Fox has an awful record of airing bigoted views and highly problematic framing around race issues,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY04gIruZ4E&feature=channel
Fox News Blames Black People for Financial Meltdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9O1hpeO-qQ&feature=related
Disgraceful! Fox Brings Obama Impersonator On For Debate
http://newsone.com/newsone-original/ggaynor/obama-impersonator-fox-new/
Racist? Fox News Host Says Obama Is “Chuggin 40s” In Ireland
http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mccalla/fox-host-obama-has-hoodlums-in-the-hizzouse/?omcamp=EMC-CVNL
I really wish something could be done about Fox not just for its racial overtones; but the LIES.
FOX CANNOT BROADCAST IN CANADA BECAUSE THEY LIE.
And yet Bev, you are a racist.
Mike in SA
"Figurative holding a lantern"? "A banjo would be better for your audience"? Despite your protestation and "let-me-get-in-front-of-this" claim to the contrary, Beverly, you ARE a big old freakin' racist even with your liberal progressive sheep's clothing on. Those are some of the most hateful, caricature evoking, racist words I've heard since Harry Reid said most blacks can't speak regular English.
Oh, Mike I have a difficult time believing you. Tell me when did you start caring about Black people?
Did you think the Tea-Baggers were Racist?
Here is what I and other Black people think of Herman Cain...
Herman Cain, For The Sake Of Black America, Pipe Down!
I have reluctantly held my tongue on Herman Cain for quite some time now, but enough is enough. The “contender” for U.S. president is a comical Republican presidential candidate, and a disgrace to the Black community.
But what makes my skin boil is the painful reminder that Cain is a graduate (and member of the board of trustees) of my Alma Mater, Morehouse College (pause for unanimous gasp). Yes folks, a Black Republican is an alumnus from the only all-male Historically Black College and University in the country.
Now of course, I’m not saying it’s implausible for a Black man to be a Republican, because there are many of them roaming our American soil (sigh). However, the mere fact that Cain is the product of an institution that fosters social advocacy and a focus on the locality of the Black race, one would presume his political ideology to be one of progressive liberalism. There’s absolutely no component in the Republican agenda that benefits the African American community in any shape or form.
Personally, I think Cain’s conservative, “fiscal responsible” political stance is influenced by one thing and one thing only: money. He’s a business multi-millionaire who is only seeking to preserve his wealth and, additionally, procure a little notoriety. Cain doesn’t care about the American people, nor does he care about the African American community.
Just a couple of days ago it was reported that Cain claimed he was called a racist because he decided not to stay on the “Democratic plantation.” He added, “it may shock you but some Black people can think for themselves,” mocking the Black community for their strong backing of President Obama. Cain has some nerve to indict African Americans let alone allude that they, unlike him, are not thinking beings because they’re Democrats. It’s absurd. I think Cain is a political coon, yet I wouldn’t call into question his thinking skills–okay maybe I would.
This is the same Cain who said that as president he would not sign any legislation longer than three pages, criticizing Obama’s 2,700-page health care bill. In other words, if Cain was president we would essentially have no legislation (in his defense, he retracted that statement). This just comes to show how ignorant and ill-equipped Cain is. Being the CEO of a pizza company does not qualify you to be president of the United States, and he has proven that theory.
It’s no wonder why Morehouse has not, and will not ever publicly endorse nor boast for Cain. He is simply put, a joke.
http://newsone.com/newsone-original/ggaynor/herman-cain-black-america/?omcamp=EMC-CVNL
FYI: Cain was preaching to the choir he need an instrument. He is supposed to be a guiding light? Please ! ! ! I said nothing racist, there were no blacks there
I just wasted 2 hours of my life I can't get back. No ideas. No plan. Still no jobs. Just someone else's sense of morality shoved down my throat. (Actually I take that back. I don't think they would allow that.)
Bev,
Political coon? Are you kidding me? How can anyone take you seriously when you pop off like that. What is so surprising is many people here condone this type of behavior.
Beverly in Chicago, so your excuse for being a stinking racist is that other people don't like Cain??? Really???
I love leftists try to interpret GOP plans. What big government program are the Republicans going to pass to create jobs in the economy. Let's follow the bouncing ball here. What have we learned from the last two years? Government CANNOT create job in the private sector. We have a trillion tax dollars of example for that. So the Republican plan is to enable the private sector to create the jobs. This is addition by subtraction. Subtract government regulations, programs, spending, and taxes. Get government off the backs of businesses, especially small businesses, and they will create jobs. Maybe actually listening to small businesses and letting them tell you what they need. This is a strategy which has worked in the past. Unlike to large government spending programs which has always failed to stimulate the economy. So you are right, there is no big government program to create jobs and that is on purpose. Government cannot create sustainable jobs in the private sector.
Bev- what does skin color have to do with party affiliation? Prejudice a little?
OK Ray, let's say the Republicans never promised to do anything to create jobs because government can't do anything to help by spending money.
Ten years of tax cuts didn't create jobs either.
Deregulation allowed the financial markets to blow an enormous bubble that almost dropped us into another Great Depression.
What other tools do they have in their box?
@Mark L-464288
Bev- what does skin color have to do with party affiliation? Prejudice a little?
Not at all
You might wanna ask why Republicans don't want or have many people of color in their party and neither do tea-baggers
Personally, I would never feel comfortable in a party that harbors racism, the KKK, and wants to deny people of color not to mention their selfishness toward the poor and now the middle class. Republicans do not care about people. Those factors are the reason your party is dying out.
What The Media Won't Show You - Teabagger Bigots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQooE23gxtU&feature=related
Oh my, you has no idea how bigoted Fox News aka the Republic Campaign headquarter is. That above video makes the difference to me and the overwhelming majority of Blacks. Fox is a racist channel and should be removed from the air. Fox promotes republicans and t-bagger nuttery ; therefore, as I see most of those types; not all are racist.
Fox Nation graphic: "JOIN YOUR LOCAL TEA PARTY"
March 05, 2010 11:52 am ET by Media Matters staff
Fox News' Hemmer: "Can't get to a tea party? Fox Nation hosts a virtual tea party."
Round 3: Fox Nation promoting another Tea Party Express
Fox Nation now promoting the "Tea Party Express II"
Fox Nation gets back "[a]board the Tea Party Express"
Fox Nation now promoting the "Tea Party Express"
Fox Nation starts "Countdown to Independence Day Tea Party!"
Fox Nation: "Need Another Tea Party? National Sales Tax 'on the Table' "
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201003050028
Mark L, notice how Beverly in Chicago only deflects criticism and projects racism onto others instead of addressing her own? Interesting, but typical tactic for a liberal/progressive.
They have no other tools in their box. We would have heard about them by now.
Their agenda is to bring down our President. They don't give a rat's a$$ about anything else. The statement that Obama embraces our enemies just made me sick. They can't get elected by doing anything constructive. And none of them are intelligent enough to come up with a plan that does not destroy the middle class. Criticize and kiss big money butt. Everyone should be totally disgusted.
What is Obama's plan? That is the problem, nobody has a plan that isn't in league with what the multi national corporations and bankers want. The ones that do have vision, Dean, Kucinich, Gravel, Buchanan, and Paul are all ignored by the meida or called kooks or racists. All you have left are corporate hacks, which Obama is. Bush sucked, but so does Obama. Obama is the President, he has the bully pulpit. Why does he continue free trade policy in this country when all it does is bleed good paying jobs and kill off the middle class. Why doesn't he put and end to Bush's dumb wars? Why didn't he put in a public option for healthcare? I mean are you kidding me? The US govt under a democratic administration is going to fine poor people almost $1000 if they don't get insurance they can't afford? People can bash Bush all they want, as he was horrible, but you can't tell me Obama is such a great guy either, especially since virtualy his entire cabinet has Goldman Sachs on their resumes.
Navy's first post, which was also among the posts collapsed wrote:
I would add that it was not so much Reagan's 11th Commandment at work, as it was the usual b!tch session we see non-stop from the right-wing.
Dark horses will be Gary Johnson and Jon Huntsman, with Ron Paul possibly doing better than he has in the past. Neither Romney or Pawlenty are a shoe-in. But Bachmann, or worse Palin (just to show how bad Palin is) would only be a gift to the Dems.
Not dwarfs as I said yesterday, but pygmies. Not a single new idea between them. Most seemed more intent on coming up with a "slogan" then coming up with solutions to crate jobs.
Patrick Salt Lake City
Not dwarfs as I said yesterday, but pygmies. Not a single new idea between them.
All morons saying the same thing cut taxes.
Bev. The only way you could claim anyone of them was a winner, would be to say he was less awful then the rest.
xx
Watching the Ann Curry interview with the President this morning, I was struck by how different he is from the crop of Teapublicans yapping on stage last night. President Obama is head and shoulders above those other candidates; he has heart as well as intellect and has been working hard for the American people while those others have just thrown stones for two years. (Or, worse, used the political system to enrich themselves.)
Republican “Debate” Debacle: There’s No There There
GOP Presidential candidates appearing on stage in New Hampshire last night put on a spectacle, of sorts, “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
None had any answers to the nation’s most pressing issues – just recycled old policies that have failed miserably.
Perhaps the only refreshing moment in the alleged “debate” was when Newt Gingrich at least acknowledged that the Paul Ryan budget proposal is not going to be successful. It would have been better if Gingrich had then said that devoting so much time arguing over that proposal is damaging to the nation’s interests when so many problems demand attention. But of course, he didn’t.
The United States deserves better than this collection of empty suits (and of course one wig on a balloon).
Eventually, the Republican Party will shove forward someone who is a serious candidate, with serious proposals. But so far, the “Grand Old Party” is neither grand, nor much of a party. Just old.
Obama: 'There are days when I say one term is enough'
For your information Mr. President, that's what Americans all over the country are saying right now!
@Amy -- I couldn't tell anything about his head and shoulders since they are so far up his . . . . .
Amy B interesting observation in your post 3.4. yet you said you didn't watch the debate just a short while ago.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/14/6856032-2012-debate-wrap
Guess I was wrong in thinking you weren't just another left wing liar. Of course perhaps curry also showed the debate in its entirety as well. I can just imagine the websites you draw your opinions from. lmao!
Gee american, and Amy had no access to news coverage of last night's debate? And those where the "highlights"--a truly empty and vapid performance by all concerned.
Ain't that the truth Miked!
I sometimes get the feeling we've all been subjects of a new episode of Punked! And someday Ashton Kuchner will appear on stage with BO and they'll both look into the camera and yell: "You've Been Punked". Of course feisty red wig will be in background smiling smugly! Oh, and Obama's 37 (and counting) Czars (all anti-business appointees) will be listed in the credits!
Seriously, if Obama doesn't quit attacking the private sector and start reducing the the size of the government we all will be punked into an imitation of Argentina in the 70's. During the next 18 months or so he'll become a moderate Republican, but this is just smoke and mirrors from the great manipulator... if successful he'll quickly revert to the socialist he really is....!
There will be change in 2012, we have no choice!
miked-332794 and Ben-636050,
Last night was a snooze fest. What a bunch of losers. Please tell me exactly what this group of losers had to offer as solutions. Did I miss something? Same old crap. Any fool can criticize. It takes some brains to come up with solutions. Heard none. Did you?
No Bill T we DO have a choice! With the ultra low caliber of Republicans running Obama is going to be elected again.
Nora,
That's not saying much for the president.
golly gee johnb - I block quoted her directly. 1st she said she didn't watch then she made the comment that implied she had. Funny you can't see that. Must be a liberal thing.
What a waste of my time watching the 7 stooges last night. If that's the best they've got, they've got serious problems.
And yet you watched anyways! lol!
And to think that obama is hard at it on the campaign trail, raising money and spouting rhetoric. Isn't he the incumbent? Wasn't he elected to do a job?
142 promises kept, 40 kept with compromise as of last count. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/
So much for not doing his job.
Exactly. The same old crap flowing from their pieholes. Criticize Obama. Nothing to offer. That only works for so long.
"This president is a declinist. He views America as one of equals around the world. We're not the same as Portugal, we're not the same as Argentina. This idea that we can't have 5 percent growth in America is hogwash. It's a defeatist attitude. If China can have 5 percent growth and Brazil can have 5 percent growth, then the United States of America can have 5 percent growth."
So said Tim Pawlenty last night. He's been taking quite bit of heat from those who think the 5% growth number is unrealistic. Maybe it is. Maybe sustained growth at that level for an extended period of time is impossible in a mature economy such as ours. But I'm not sure I really care about that. What I care about is seeing a man who is articulating a POSITIVE economic growth message. And a man who gives voice to the misgivings many Americans have that we are sliding inexorably into second class economic status.
The 5% number is a goal, a goal that establishes the framework for the kind of economic policies that would be needed to achieve it. So it's not just a bumper sticker slogan, but rather a vision that informs policy makers of the steps they need to take to put this country on a path to where realizing 5% growth would be feasible. And that's important because as all the world can plainly see, we're not on that path right now.
So when Pawlenty calls the president a "declinist" or a "defeatist" he puts a ton of daylight between where his presidency WOULD take us and where the current president IS taking us. The contrast couldn't be more striking. Obama and his left wings buds are convinced that government is a key instrument for not only growing the economy, but growing it in specific directions that are "good" for all of us. Both of these ideas are captured in his empty rhetoric about "winning the future" by making appropriate government "investments" today. Pawlenty on the other hand has the good sense to understand that the government does not grow the economy, a vibrant private sector does. And he has the similar good sense to understand that the "investments" made by central government planners do not necessarily bear any relation whatsoever to the reality based investments that are actually necessary to spur real economic growth.
The details of Pawlenty's idea are fair game for debate, and as the campaign proceeds opponents will throw their rocks and defenders will respond accordingly. But the terms of that debate will have already been set by one simple, bold proposition: that we can achieve 5% economic growth. That's the kind of debate we should be having to help get us out of the economic funk we're in. It's a debate that every American understands is crucial to our future. And it's a debate where Obama begins from a position of weakness.
So I'm liking what Pawlenty has done. In one fell swoop he's highlighted the president's Achilles heel and steered the debate in a direction where he and other Republicans can play to their strength. Thanks Tim. And don't be dissuaded by the gloomster naysayers on the left. Your optimistic vision of the future is just what the doctor ordered.
P.S. FR and the MSM are apparently disappointed that last night's debate didn't devolve into an internecine Republican food fight. I'm not. But then again, I'm not a left wing "journalist" on the make for Republican blood. Thank goodness.
T-Paw's economic plan is a joke on America:
This is crazy at best, from a Tax cutting point of view this is the Ryan Bill on “Steroids”.
...but ask yourself this..."How is China achieving 5% growth?"
The Devil is in the details.
Can you do anything on your own without quoting the worst website on the planet Navy? Can you come up with an original thought? Can you take up the challenge and research Mack's One-Cent plan and Fattah"s One Cent Plan and come up with a great compromise????? Are you chicken???
Paying their workers pennies? No health care or benefits? Making poor quality manufactured goods at a fraction of the cost? Pick one.
Yes I think they should try that one cent plan out on some communities that want to give it a go and see how it does in 6 months to a year...if it is working implement it nationwide.
Did you notice, Bill, that First Thoughts did not contain one reference to Obama's latest "joke"?
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/06/obama-jokes-about-shovel-ready-projects/1
Too bad for the taxpayers- the joke is on us.
They are also missing the big story on the fundraising- it is falling WELL short of expectations. Last night a fundraiser featuring Obama, himself, with tickets that began at just $44, was held in a venue that could hold upwards of 2000 people- a little over 900 showed up.
Looks like he may just sign up for public financing this go round. His campaign appearances are showing the same numbers as last fall, when venues had to be changed from "throng" to "crowd" to "group"- and even then, his handlers could not fill the venue.
Romney had it right last night- anyone on that stage would be a better president than Obama.
Pawlenty left Minnesota with a ton of deficit! Evel Knievel couldn't jump his credibility gap!!
The GOP/TP Brown-shirts still cannot dispute the facts but instead attack the source, one which by the way does fact check and does correct their mistakes. Prove the source is wrong???????
We have the right to put up any source we want whether you like it or not. All you have to do is prove them wrong with your own.
They are also missing the big story on the fundraising- it is falling WELL short of expectations
Good Disabled vet....I will put up my own sources, for every source that makes your leg tingly, I’ll definitely find a gainsay source...to hell with the real facts and figures…lets put a spin on everything…this way you can foster your bigotry and fester anger
If you could use a laugh, Bill, watch this
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/13/gibbs_election_not_about_blaming_someone_for_the_economy.html
So, according to Gibbs, this election should not be about "affixing blame" for the poor economy.
And, according to Axelrod, once again, this election is not a "referendum", but a "choice". As I recall, he used that same strategy last fall- vast majorities responded with votes for republicans. Does it make a difference to Axelrod?
About as much difference as implementing failed policies, certain they will work THIS time, because, well, because, well- just BECAUSE!
Too bad for the country we fell for the Obama rhetoric last presidential election. Looks like the electorate is ready to address that mistake.
Can you disprove anything he's said above, Ben? Apparently not since you haven't even tried.
Yep! You right wing fanatics have nothing to worry about in 2012. Anyone can beat Obama. So, pick one of those outstanding candidates last night, and then, make Palin your VP candidate and you got a sure winner. Think about the money you can save. Obama is swinging meat. Anyone can beat him. They won't even need to campaign. It's all over until------------they must meet Obama in the Presidential debates. But even that will be an easy win for you right wing, extremist fanatics. Nothing to worry about. So much fire in your bellies----something like Pickett's charge at Gettsyburg!
mike-416, and yet Americans continue to buy "made overseas" products. Not necessarily a bad thing considering we are living in a global economy. But how about starting to buy "value" rather than throw away.
Seems that until American businesses can create an exportable product or service that both the international and domestic markets are willing to buy, our economy will continue to struggle on. Interesting to note that America will soon be surpassed by china and india as the largest consumer economies.. Nothing to do with politics of course. Just that their populace will continue to want more. More wages, more benefits, just more in general.
Bill of fairfax, can't say I was impressed by pawlenti's responses (guess it was to much chest beating on his part as the MN governor), but you hit the ball out of the park in referencing 5% GDP as a goal. Our country has lost the ability to set goals and develop a plan to achieve or surpass that goal. Rhetoric alone doesn't solve problems. A plan has to be made, followed and changed as required.
x
x
Funky board today, let me try posting it this way:
From american:
"Our country has lost the ability to set goals and develop a plan to achieve or surpass that goal."
From John B on the next (collapsed) thread:
"There hasn't been a time when growth ran at 5% for 10 consecutive years, and it's incredible to believe it would happen under Pawlenty's plan."
American gets it, the idiot John B (as usual) doesn't get it. The whole point of setting such a lofty goal is to focus our collective energies and talents on doing what it takes to try and achieve that goal. And that's EXACTLY what we need in these difficult economic times.
Remember this lofty goal from years gone by:
"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
How sweet it was to trample over the naysayers of the time and achieve that goal. Such a thing we can do again. But it will never be done by dolts who resign themselves to the new normal of sub-par Obama growth.
Y'see Bill, this isn't the same as going to the moon. This is a number Pawlenty pulled out of thin air in order to make the rest of his numbers work. That's a standard ploy of Conservatives, employed most recently in their budget which pulls numbers directly out of fantasyland in order to create thoroughly unrealistic improvements in the economy. Another example would be our own Tea Party governor, Terry Branstad. His plan to reduce commercial property taxes by 40% will supposedly create such a burst of economic activity that residential and farm property taxes will actually go DOWN as a result, instead of up to compensate for the obvious revenue shortfall.
Btw, it makes me smile every time you call me an idiot, which is every time you address one of my comments. Since I don't insult you it's great proof of how you feel threatened by opinions that differ from your own. Thanks for confirming the strength of my message.
The only plan the Republicans have is to kiss up to big business. Nothing different as usual. Stick it to the middle class and protect the rich. There, I said it in one paragraph.
Wrong again John B, I call you an idiot because that's what you are. Thanks for continuing to remind us of same.
Awww, thanks for making me smile again, Bill.
"This president is a declinist. He views America as one of equals around the world. We're not the same as Portugal, we're not the same as Argentina. This idea that we can't have 5 percent growth in America is hogwash. It's a defeatist attitude. If China can have 5 percent growth and Brazil can have 5 percent growth, then the United States of America can have 5 percent growth."
So said Tim Pawlenty last night. He's been taking quite bit of heat from those who think the 5% growth number is unrealistic. Maybe it is. Maybe sustained growth at that level for an extended period of time is impossible in a mature economy such as ours. But I'm not sure I really care about that. What I care about is seeing a man who is articulating a POSITIVE economic growth message. And a man who gives voice to the misgivings many Americans have that we are sliding inexorably into second class economic status.
The 5% number is a goal, a goal that establishes the framework for the kind of economic policies that would be needed to achieve it. So it's not just a bumper sticker slogan, but rather a vision that informs policy makers of the steps they need to take to put this country on a path to where realizing 5% growth would be feasible. And that's important because as all the world can plainly see, we're not on that path right now.
So when Pawlenty calls the president a "declinist" or a "defeatist" he puts a ton of daylight between where his presidency WOULD take us and where the current president IS taking us. The contrast couldn't be more striking. Obama and his left wings buds are convinced that government is a key instrument for not only growing the economy, but growing it in specific directions that are "good" for all of us. Both of these ideas are captured in his empty rhetoric about "winning the future" by making appropriate government "investments" today. Pawlenty on the other hand has the good sense to understand that the government does not grow the economy, a vibrant private sector does. And he has the similar good sense to understand that the "investments" made by central government planners do not necessarily bear any relation whatsoever to the reality based investments that are actually necessary to spur real economic growth.
The details of Pawlenty's idea are fair game for debate, and as the campaign proceeds opponents will throw their rocks and defenders will respond accordingly. But the terms of that debate will have already been set by one simple, bold proposition: that we can achieve 5% economic growth. That's the kind of debate we should be having to help get us out of the economic funk we're in. It's a debate that every American understands is crucial to our future. And it's a debate where Obama begins from a position of weakness.
So I'm liking what Pawlenty has done. In one fell swoop he's highlighted the president's Achilles heel and steered the debate in a direction where he and other Republicans can play to their strength. Thanks Tim. And don't be dissuaded by the gloomster naysayers on the left. Your optimistic vision of the future such is just what the doctor ordered.
P.S. The MSM is apparently disappointed that last night's debate didn't devolve into an internecine Republican food fight. I'm not. But then again, I'm not a left wing MSM "journalist" looking for Republican blood. Thank goodness.
*good grief*
We heard you the first time Mr. Bill & it wasn't good enough then...
It certainly doesn't need to be repeated! ;o)
Bill:
It is easy to say that we can achieve 5% growth. What is missing is a reality based plan to accomplish that. I am failing to see how this line of argument is a Republican "strength" when these are the same economic policies led us to the current recession. We just had a decade of this same "happy talk", and all we have is low wages, high unemployment, and over valued homes to show for it. The "capitalist fairy tale" talk does not solve problems.
@Feisty -- the same thing can be said about Navy -- triple in spades. :-)
That 5% growth that T-Paw keeps claiming has never happened. It was 4.9% and 4.7% (close to 5 but not 5), they did not last 10 years and here is the kicker. Those growth rates happened while taxes went UP not DOWN.
Spin Baby Spin.
Yep...just like unemployment will not go above 8%. Easy to say.
Alan,
The problem is that nobody, including the President, ever "promised" that unemployment would not go over 8%. That my friend is a lie. . . one that doesn't even make much sense . . .but of course, thinking has gone out of style.
The unemployment rate in January 2009 was 7.6%, so CLEARLY nobody thought or "promised" that the Stimulus package was going to be able to hold it under 8%. The stimulus bill wasn’t signed into law until mid February . . . the unemployment rate then was ALREADY 8.1%.
This is all a carefully crafted lie designed to turn a report that was created BEFORE the President was even sworn in (which was based on a FICTIONAL stimulus bill, not the one that passed) into a "promise".
http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf
"We the people" are pretty doggone gullible.
Going back to 1929, years in which the American economy grew by 5% or more in real terms (i.e. adjusting for inflation):
1934-37, 1939-44, 1950-51, 1955, 1959, 1962, 1964-66, 1973, 1976, 1978, 1984.
By my count that's 22 out of the last 82 years, or about 27% of the time. And if you want to throw in years where growth was "almost 5%" the number is even bigger. So the 5% growth goal for this country is not nearly as far fetched as the dismal "economists" on the board would have us believe.
@Nash
I couldn't resist. You're too easy to tweak on this.
I love you back Alan! :o)
Gosh darn Feisty, I tried to edit that thang but it posted twice instead. But look on the bright side. It gives your side an extra opportunity to take a shot :)
If 41,000 factories had not left the USA and relocted to China under Bush's watch China would not have 5% growth. If American companies move back we will have some growth. The only solution to the problem is money in the hands of middle class consumers and republican policies do everything they can to lower the disposable income of the middles class. The small businessman needs small customers, these policies of the republicans have wiped out the small guy, they have been gobbled up by the big boys for the last decade, nobody can afford to shop anywhere that charges more than Wal-Mart. Cut taxes all you want, it does not put money in the hands of people that will send it rippling through the economy, the tax cuts don't help the small businessman because he can't take advantage of them, he still has no customers. Talk about uncertainty nothing should make the small businessman more uncertain than republican policies that reduce the purchasing power of his customer base. Republican policies have never been about helping the small business in fact they have destroyed it.
Thanks for proving yourself wrong, Bill. There hasn't been a time when growth ran at 5% for 10 consecutive years, and it's incredible to believe it would happen under Pawlenty's plan.
The historical average is 3%, about what is expected to be the result for 2011.
The years we've had the most growth, tax rates were higher.
If you inherit or make through capital gains more than 1 or 2 miilion dollars, than you should be taxed at least 15%-20% on it. It's not like someone actually wroks or breaks a sweat when they inherit money.
If someone inherits a house, and doesn't own one already, then they should be required to keep that house for at least 5 years(and pay property taxes on it), or they will be forced to pay the capital gains tax(if they sell it solely for profit).
I see no problem with lowering the corporate tax rates to 25%-27%, if ALL loopholes are taken away.
If companies use an offshore work force, then they pay a 45% corporate tax rate(no loopholes).
They can receive a one time tax credit for NEW U.S. hires, and a small credit for helping their (US)employees pay for health care coverage.
It's time to reward companies, but only if they keep their jobs here.
JohnB - obviously you dont goal set much. It appears that your idea of goal setting is likened to a little league team always having a goal of winning just one game, rather than having to stretch in an effort to achieve it.
You seem to be a charlie brown peanuts type of guy where winning just one game a season would be an accomplishment.
Actually I goal set all the time and nothing I've been involved in has failed to improve. I know the difference between goals and fantasy. The failed governor of a midwestern state claiming he can achieve something as an ongoing pattern that's only been experienced as an exceptional year or two at a time EVER is fantasy.
There's a reason why there's a practical cap to economic growth. The long-term average of 3% can only be significantly exceeded for short periods because it isn't sustainable. Human and other resources reach an inflationary demand, and bubbles develop in which resources have a cost unsupported by their value.
Pawlenty is just saying the same things that were said during the dotcom bubble--that the rules governing economics over time no longer apply and that he'll create out of whole cloth a "new economy" that isn't restrained by prior conditions.
In short--he's lying.
Hello First Read Family.
I did no watch the debate last night . . . based on the reporting I have seen, I didn't miss much.
Mostly I am noticing that no one in the Republican Party has anything positive to say about the President nor anything new to say about the economy.
Actually, the only political things that caught my attention yesterday were:
- Paul Ryan telling the tried and true "we were promised that unemployment would stay under 8%" zombie lie that our modern media is unable/unwilling to kill.
- Some lady on the CBS evening news from North Carolina saying she would not vote for President Obama again because he didn't "keep his promise" to create more jobs in America.
- The President of the United States being asked a question about what he would do if he were a pervy Congressman from New York.
Yeah folks, this is politics in America . . . politicians telling lies because they know most folks will believe them, voters believing lies, because they think if it weren't true, someone would debunk it, and the media gleefully "reporting" on "debates" which are actually carefully staged political rallies and asking the leader of the free world how he feels about folks tweeting pics of their junk.
I mean really at this point, we could just draw the name of the next President out of a hat . . . that is the level of thought that most folks are investing at this point.
P.S. Are the majority of Americans really so simple that they expect this or any President to magically fulfill campaign promises by Presidential edict? That is just sad.
P.S.S. President Obama announced 18 months ago that we would beging to withdraw from Afghanistan next month. Why are member's of the media "debating" when we will withdraw as if they don't already know? This is part of the campaign to belittle all of the President's achievements by simply pretending they didn't happen. The President implemented a new Afghanistan strategy and it worked, even if the media chooses to pretend that the already promised withdrawal is a response to "political pressure" . . . the simple fact is it is a repsonse to "mission accomplished".
I didn't bother watching the Republican circus last night, either. Too many clowns. I already knew that they'd all be blaming the poor economy on Obama's "failure" to lead, while their notion of leadership is to to do nothing at all, and let the so-called "free" market solve the problem all by itself.
Welcome back, Nash--hope you had a good vacation. How nice to be away during part of the Weiner idiocy.
Couldn't bring myself to watch the debates-- had to root for Pat from Boston's Bruins!
Well said, Nashville. This country has serious problems yet so-called journalists are nothing more than carnival barkers as suggested by our President. Anne Currie interviewed President Obama and serious issues were discussed but what headlines hit the papers this morning: our President's comment suggesting that Anthony Weiner resign. The dumbest question by Anne Currie was asking why the President doesn't get angry over..... Seriously, anger really solves problems.
Houston, failure to lead is exactly what all 7 of those candidates offered last night.
Good to be back Steeler Fan . . . and I was completely out of the loop politically which was quite nice indeed! :o)
Nashville, I share your disgust with the media. (Sorry FR, not you) I watch the pundits and Republicans flail away at President Obama like he is a pinata and the so-called "journalists" never turn around and say "did you notice this chart the CBO put out that shows this last recession was the worst we've had since the Great Depression?" Or, when the likes of Peggy Noonan blurts out "Obama inherited a recession and two wars and he made it WORSE!" a real life journalist might reply, well, actually, he didn't, and here are the numbers that say that." In modern times we have these factcheck websites online, but in public dialogue, pundits and politicians are rarely held accountable. (And some news anchors, like Diane Sawyer, have given up trying to be unbiased.)
Good Morning Nash!
I see your time away has sharpened your sword! ;o)
How about some Kool-Aid?
Thanks for stopping by Amy and Feisty . . . a tall glass of Kool-aid sounds like just the thing to get the taste of Republican hypocrisy out of my mouth Feisty . . . much obliged! :o)
P.S. The scrolling in comments is really, really, really bad . . . I pretty much had to use surgical precision just to hit the reply button . . . there has got to be a better way!
Winners and Losers. How can one determine a winner and a loser when none of the candidates offered anything except the same old tired, worn out, failed policies of the past. They were clones of each other. None of that group of seven stood out from the other. Serious candidates offer serious ideas. The GOPTP seemed devoid of new ideas but were good at red meat tossing.
The first GOPTP debate was in NH last night. It was painful to watch not because there were no candidates but because the candidates were not serious. Occasionally, there was a glimmer of reasoned thought such as Gingrich's honest assessment of solving the immigration problem and why doing a comprehensive bill is not likely to happen right now but for the most part there was not one new idea, not one "vision" of how to solve our problems, no mention of the middle class--everything mentioned was about giving more to business and those who have wealth in the hope that it will stimulate the economy. There was no concern for ordinary working people--let them eat cake.
These candidates spoke of tax cuts, de-regulation of business, elimination of the EPA, repeal of the Dodd-Frank bill which protects consumers (we the people), repeal of health care law which also helps people--all those things that gave us the crash of 2008 are what they would repeat. It was as if the financial collapse of 2008 was a blipp on the radar and happened not because of Bush/GOP policies but as a result of some mythical beast. It was as if the fact that the failed Reagan trickle-down policies they regurgitate worked when in reality they were dropped by Reagan as failure.
These presidential candidates had nothing new to offer except to blame President Obama for everything and all but claim that "ObamaCare" caused the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. These candidates who claim to be Christians or people of faith stood on that stage and spewed lies and they knew they were lies. At some point, serious candidates must be FOR something and not simply against all things Obama--otherwise, they do not deserve consideration.
P.S. The best part of that debate was following our First Read hosts' tweets.
Excellent analysis Jody . . . especially considering you had nothing to work with! :o)
It is clear to the American people that Obama's rhetoric and war against businesses, individuals making $250k+, banks, and insurance companies has not and will not encourage job growth. While that message has appealed to the poverty lobby and liberals it doesnt give real business owners any confidence that Obama is done signing ridiculous job killing bills like Frank/Dodd and HCR. Unfortunatly that $ Trillion stimulus was largley rendered a waste by his leadership and anti-business policies. The result is businesses and banks are not spending do to this uncertainty. Democtatic State Atty's led by that idiot Tom Miller (D) from Iowa are trying to force banks into write down principal adding more uncertainty to the housing market. We desperatly need new leadership. VOTE FOR CHANGE IN 2012!
Well said Jody, and that about sums them up. None of them have anything of substance to offer other than the same stale ideas that originally got us into this mess and now they offer them again as if we wont notice they failed the first try. Really, do they think the voters are that stupid. Let us hope not.
UAW Pleeeeeeeease
It is clear to the American people that Obama's rhetoric and war against businesses, individuals making $250k+, banks, and insurance companies has not and will not encourage job growth.
No it's clear you are not aware of the present day and what happened ten years ago.
Michele Bachmann Pants on Fire.
Read the complete Michele Bachmann file.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/jun/13/fact-checking-republican-debate-new-hampshire/
Here are ten alternatives we could've pursued instead:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/07/237560/10-years-bush-tax-cuts/
Bev, Those all sound like great causes. (none of them will produce many jobs in the private sector) but great causes none the less. I'm not against spending money we have on good causes. I just don't like to borrow it. Bottom line those causes won't stimulate the private sector into creating more jobs to pay for those programs. Please do yourself a favor and go ask a banker or a business man why they are reluctant to lend or spend in this enviroment. It will be a diffrent reason than you are hearing from your Liberal freinds but I think you owe yourself that oppurtunity. Try this mind set: Forget about what someone else is going to give you. Now envision what you want and how you would pay for it with your resources not someone elses.
UAW Pleeeeeeeease
Bev, Those all sound like great causes. (none of them will produce many jobs in the private sector) but great causes none the less.
Perhaps, you have not noticed, the police, firemen, and teachers work. In America we have both private sector and public sector jobs. Also the private sector sends jobs over seas for slave labor.
One more thing if you don't like this country's government move to Haiti where there are no police, firefighters, teachers, or government jobs and lots of guns.
Small business needs small customers. Customers need money, nothing can help small business except people with a little money to spend. Nothing should create more uncertainty in the small businessman than republican policies that reduce the income of the people in their community. By the way they have been using the money from wage cuts not to cut deficits but to provide tax breaks for business, but small bussiness does not get to take advantage of them because they still don't have any customers. The big boys have been gobbling up the little guys like crazy for the last decade, republican economic policies have done nothing to protect small bussiness, in fact they killed it. But hey now we live better by buying cheaper at wal-mart.
Bev, Come on. It's not fair to lead policeman, fireman and teachers to beleive that thier "work" is even possible with out workers in the private sector. Hiring more "public" workers doesnt mean we get more "private" workers". It just doesnt work that way...... The nice thing about this country though is if your not happy with the current government leadership we can elect to change it. You don't need to move. You just need to: VOTE FOR CHANGE IN 2012!
The parts about retrofitting houses with more efficient energy systems(wind/solar), and offering better VA services and coverage, would create jobs by themselves.
Hiring more firefighters and police officers, is a good thing.
More teachers should be hired, and class sizes should be limited to 21 students.
Why is that, UAW? Do government workers not buy homes and cars? Do they not contribute to charities? Do they not buy groceries or consumer goods? Do they not eat out, go to movies and plays, take vacations? Is there something that exempts the money they're paid from the "multiplier effect" that is what creates real wealth through economic activity?
Conservatives like to pretend that tax money is just gone, as if it evaporated. It's a narrative that completely ignores everything known by economists.
Come on John B, The multiplier effect works both ways. Unfortunatley it takes the multiplier effect of taxes paid by 30-40 private sector employees to pay for just 1 public sector worker. Unemployment isnt high in the public sector it's high in the private sector. Your not going to solve unemployment by hiring more teachers, firemen, policemen. Your just making it harder to solve the real problem. Instead of recalling people like Scott Walker we should be naming streets after them. I think even Obama realizes he's not qualified to be a leader for this countries economic issues. Seriously let's VOTE FOR CHANGE IN 2012!
A one billion subsidy -Tax break, could hire 200000 people for one year @ $50,000 a year. Big oil subsidy alone would hire 800,000 people for one year @ $50,000 they would spend it it would help, it would do way more the economy than what it does now. What does it do now, how does that 4 billion subsidy help the economy.
Gump, Slide your decimal point a couple 0's to the left. $1,000,000,000 divided by 200,000 is $5000/yr....
Perhaps then, you can help me understand how laying off tens of thousands of government per MONTH as Republicans are doing all over the country will help?
Oh yeah, I nearly forgot...the goal is to raise unemployment and drive down wages for EVERYONE in order to increase corporate profits.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/economy/gop-prescription-spending-cuts-and-lower-wages-equal-more-jobs-20110325
Everything leads back to Conservatives' war on the middle class.
Excuse me 20,000 people per billion @ $50,000 a year. 40,000 jobs a month= 2 billion a month in Iraq, 4 billion in oil subsidy = 80,000 jobs. You will not help small business until people have a little money to spend, 20,000 people paying their bills does a lot more for the economy than one more billion under someones pillow.
Come on John B, you can't really believe laying off public sector workers is some RP/TP "conspiricy" to send highly skilled workers into the private sector to lower wages... That's pretty far fetched for even the most liberal of liberals to believe. First of all there isnt alot of call for Police, Fireman and Teachers in the private sector. But to answer your question. It's a matter of balancing the budget. With fewer "private" sector workers employed and paying taxes there is less money to pay for "public" sector workers. Lay off one government worker and it lowers the tax burden for 30-40 private workers....
Except they then have to live with potholes or volunteer fire departments, those workers provide services we all wish to have, who then pays for that? If the city does not collect trash then you pay to have your trash picked up by a private company that pays wages to it's employee's and wants to make a profit on top.
Gump, I already get my trash picked up by a private company. It's about $25/mo. Some how the $6500/yr in property taxes I pay isnt enough for the government to collect my trash as well. Go figure. Funny you should mention "volenteer" fire depts. There are tons of them in Iowa. It makes ya wonder why we have to pay a union guy $80-100k a year for a job that most people in Iowa do for free???
I guess you have volunteer cops too, you guys hunt down criminals yourselves for free, not like the slackers in the city, who are just to darn lazy to hunt down their criminals. I think cops and firefighters are worth every penny we pay them, those people work all manner of shifts, holidays, weekends ect, they put their lives in jeopardy as a profession, their whole family is affected. What is that worth to you?
It is far fetched--so outrageous I wouldn't have believed it if not for John Boehner circulating copies of the report written by Representative Kevin Brady to his caucus as the game plan.
http://www.speaker.gov/UploadedFiles/JEC_Jobs_Study.pdf
So we're in agreement that the Republican plan is too crazy to even believe...until you see the evidence to the contrary.
It stuck out to me that all were pro-life and against same sex marriage. Tough to win in a general when you take strong positions against women's and gay rights.
The only one who made sense and whose answers were not pandering to big business was Ron Paul. He is the best GOP candidate. I know he will never get the nod, but he has the best ideas on how to fix what is wrong with the country.
Pro life shouldn't be so bad of a stance. I don't see why going against what many perceive to be infanticide should be construed as being against women's rights. It is funny when back in the 90's, the pro life movement started to show pics of aborted fetuses or almost fully grown unborn kids and everyone called in distasteful. Thing is all they were doing was showing everyone the reality of abortion. It is the same way with our wars. You never see shots of the dead or wounded, as they don't want the populace as a whole to really get a glimpse of what really is going on. Pro choice ladies talk about controlling their bodies, etc. Well go ahead then. With various forms of birth conrol out there that are not all that expensive use it!!!!!!! It takes 32 hours after intercourse for the semen to reach the egg. A woman should be able to flush her uterus with spermicide before then. Abortion is not only a grisly thing, it is also expensive. Feminists should call for cheaper, more effective birth control, not calling for more abortions.
FR:
Right. Our forefathers fought at the battle of Concord, New Hampshire in order to protect the teabaggers' precious right to make up any facts they please in order to justify their prejudices and resentments.
Don't forget, Houston, that they fought on Omaha Beach on DDay to have the right to choose their health care.
when i go into the booth in 2012 i'll be thinking of the party that wants to dismantle goverment, social security...medicare....that's what they want to run on ...let them...it will be the biggest landslide ever...all those tea partyers are starting to show their true colors when they realize that it will be them that bear most heavily the burden of repub...efforts...the closer it gets to the election and the more details emerge from the ryan plan and the gop agenda to destroy the goverment, they'll realize and maybe appreciate all that this country offers....because everyone hates the goverment until well they need it.....
Right on Marc! Apparently they feel it's a free for all! Survival of the fittest or rather survival of the people with all the money. Christian Republican has become an oxy moron! It's not We The People...it's Me The People! Their motto: What can you do for me? Who can I steal from next. We need a modern day Robin Hood!!!
the"me"party
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 22% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -18.
Overall, 47% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the president's performance. Fifty-two (52%) at least somewhat disapprove.
When President Obama first took office, 39% of voters nationwide expected the economy to be stronger in a year. By July 2009, confidence that the economy would be stronger peaked at 45%. By the middle of 2010, just 37% expected the economy to be stronger in a year. Now, just 31% hold such optimism.
In December 2009, a full 11 months before Election Day. A Democratic strategist concluded that if the Rasmussen Reports Generic Congressional Ballot data was accurate, Republicans would gain 62 seats in the House during the 2010 elections. Other polls at the time suggested the Democrats would retain a comfortable majority. The Republicans gained 63 seats in the 2010 elections.
Most U.S. voters continue to support repeal of the national health care law and believe the new law is likely to be repealed.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 54% of Likely U.S. Voters at least somewhat favor repeal of the health care law, while 35% are at least somewhat opposed. This includes 41% who Strongly Favor repeal and 28% who Strongly Oppose it. (To see survey question wording,
Go get a box of hankies, marc. Mr. Obama is one and done. The great experiment is about to come to an end. The people have had it with this guy.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presidential-job-approval.aspx
Shows obama is on par with reagan and clinton.........
Please give a link from where you get your data. It might be nice to be able to see the whole article not just what you copied from it.......
Ron-374386
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 22% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -18.
First of all, Fox-mussen polls likely voters of Fox News audience. And they are push polls.
Conservative media frequently refers to Rasmussen, praising them for being the first to ask about a relevant issue or to ask questions that other pollsters do not. TIME has described Rasmussen Reports as a "conservative-leaning polling group".[29] According to Charles Franklin, a University of Wisconsin political scientist who co-developed Pollster.com,[30] “He [Rasmussen] polls less favorably for Democrats, and that’s why he’s become a lightning rod." Franklin also said: "It’s clear that his results are typically more Republican than the other person’s results.”
Nate Silver claimed that Rasmussen conducted its polls in a way that excluded the majority of the population from answering Rasmussen has received criticism over the wording in its polls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasmussen_Reports
I suggest you go back 4 days ago of FR to...
Inside the Boiler Room: To poll, or not to poll?
I don't like push polls. They don't tracking polls.
wolften, it's Rasmussen's site.
End the Fed! Ron Paul 2016!
Navy:
Great point on the oil speculators.
In 2008, oil peaked over $140/barrel. Americans paid $4/gallon.
Today, oil is 30% lower. However, we are paying $3.70/gallon. Using the 2008 model, Americans should be paying $2.80 at the pump.
Dan:
Good point. There is no rhyme or reason as to why the gasoline prices move the way they do, not from a supply and demand point of view. It is the speculators that are driving up the costs. Also note that the regulator body that is responsible for watching over the Speculators will have their budget cut by 50% if Ryan's Bill goes thorough. Cantor is even on record saying he will protect the Speculators.
The GOP/TP has totally lost site of the American People, period. They are now more arrogant than ever pising in our faces and daring us to do something about it. Well 2012 is coming and we will do something about it.
Obama in 2012.
You are scared Navy and you don't have an original thought on fixing the economy. Same tired websites quoted. All you do is tear down others' ideas like there is nothing of value. Take on the challenge and YOU analyze the Mack and Fattah plans.
So what difference will it make if they have their budget cut by 50%? According to you they can't do their job now. Why don't we just get rid of them completely as they are not effective?
Ben-636050
You are scared Navy and you don't have an original thought on fixing the economy. Same tired websites quoted. All you do is tear down others' ideas like there is nothing of value. Take on the challenge and YOU analyze the Mack and Fattah plans.
Ben I totally disagree
What ideas have the republicans and baggers put forth apart from the same one which took this country to the brink? So in that case it's fair to point out the inaccuracies; I think.
As far as oil is concerned, it is not President Obama it's the speculators. These speculators have a vow from republicans to continue to exploit the people. It’s the Koch brothers, The Original Oil Speculators, not President Obama causing oil prices to skyrocket
President Obama wants to eliminate special tax breaks for oil and gas companies: including repealing special expensing rules, foreign tax credit benefits, and manufacturing deductions for oil and gas firms. But as of May 17, 2011 the Close Big Oil Tax Loopholes Act, the bill sought to repeal about $21 billion worth of tax breaks to oil companies over 10 years with the stipulation that all revenues generated would be used to reduce the federal budget deficit or the public debt is still stalled.
In fact, Republican House Majority Leader promised “Whether it’s the EPA, the FDA, the FCC, the SEC, the CFTC, you name it, there is an acronym for a federal agency causing harm right now” In other words he promised to block financial regulations. .
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/05/18/208128/eric-cantor-oil-speculators-block-financial-regulations/
The Republican party is closely linked to two men who have a dismal, perverted, hatred, of the poor and democracy. They are the Koch Brothers. They are greedy selfish men.
Koch brothers funded Americans for Prosperity which is launching a new campaign across the country called "Running on Empty", where they blame the Obama administration and their regulatory practices for the whole mess. Again it’s the Koch brothers, The Original Oil Speculator not President Obama causing oil prices to skyrocket. Can't you see that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cd2UfqtFm8
The Koch brothers and Republicans don’t want government to take on any responsibilities that the private sector can't. That's tragic you need regulations on eggs, e-coli and life.
I think the person tearing down another person is you with your whining.
ok you ass holes !!! we know that you hate President Obama !!! we know that you're anti-government !!! we know that you're puppets of the tea-party !!! but where are your economic plans for our nation ??? WHERE'S THE BEEF ??? my guess is that you're like dogs that have finally caught the car !!! WHAT THE HELL DO WE DO NOW ???
what the hell ??? what's your beef rvz ??? it's not clear to me from your post ??? are you a gay AIDS activist pissed with President Obama because he hasn't cured the disease in less than 3 years ??? enlighten me.
I am an independent. I watched because I don't care for the far right or the far left. I was looking for someone who would do the best for the majority of the people, mainly the middle class. I did not see anyone in this debate that cared at all about anything other than ...... getting rid of Obama, getting rid of Obama and did I mention that they want to get rid of Obama. It was the same old BS. Nothing that will help us. They talk big about jobs but I haven't seen them do anything but cut jobs. I live in Florida and we have Rick 'the Crook' Scott. I am really afraid for the future of America when so many people, especially seniors, were willing to vote for a man who ripped off medicare and medicaid for billions of dollars. I don't see anything that the tea party brings to the table except for tax cuts for the corporations and rich, get rid of all government entities that protect the American public, get rid of Social Security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps and eventually welfare. I see our country eroding in a way that is worse than the Great Depression. I see us being lead into a theocracy where only the unborn life is worth saving and the elderly, the sick and everyone else is expendable. I want us out of the wars but at a pace that will guarantee the safety of our troops. I don't want to be the world's police. I want the tax codes rewritten and hope for a flat tax with all loopholes closed. I think we need term limits on all politicians. No more lifetime career politicians and we need to take away their retirement benefits. I am just fed up with the division in this country.
go get him mom ....truthteller love u ...i'm a member of the militant middle myself...
USN_USMC MOM:
First thank your children for me for their service and sacrifice for this Country. I am Navy Retired with a Service Connected Disability, my Dad was USN - gunners mate and my daughter is currently a LtJG in the Navy stationed in San Diego.
You make some very good points and I thank you for writing them today.
And, my wife has a bumper sticker that says
"What kind of MOM lets her kids join the Navy/" - The proud kind. I saw similar ones for the Marine Corp as well since they both are brothers/sisters in arms.
Thanks for the kind words. I really am going to have to change my screen name as I now have a daughter, who is a Navy Vet, going into the Air Force. We are a military family going back generations. My sailor is TAD to the Army (they put Sea-Whiz on the back of trucks) in Iraq. My Marine just got back. My concerns are that no one is willing to compromise and the right just wants Obama out of office. I wonder what my kids are fighting for.
Great post, Mom----you raised some pretty great kids, it sounds like. Please thank them for their service. I think you have pointed out the risks that the extremes of either party bring to our politics.
"Because if companies are spending billions of dollars on rising health-care costs, that's money that they're not putting into hiring the workers, or new plants, or equipment;" a very true point in the abstract. however, it is a little like someone thinking, "geez, if i update the kitchen it will make the home more marketable;" not considering though the housing market has crashed and nothing you do will stop the slide in the value of your home.
OK, so far I'm totally unimpressed. Let me rank the winners and losers from last noghtns so-called debate'
Winners - no one   Losers - all of us.
Tell us what you offer, I can badmouth the president, the DEMS and the GOP with the best of them.Â
I don't give a damn what you think of your opponent, I want to hear what you offer.
Â
Sounds like the campaign Obama ran in 2008. "Bush's fault, Bush's fault, Bush's fault, Out of Iraq, Out of Iraq, Bush tax cuts. Bush tax cuts, Hopey Changey, Hopey changey. "
They all go after the sitting president, Bill, and Obama's now got a record to run on. It ain't pretty.
Tell you what. Romney's got a record in Business and Government. Compare it to Obama, because it looks like he's going to be going against Romney.
Obama will be lucky if he wins 4 states.
so you see a Romeny juggernaut in the south. as they say in the south that dog ain't gonna hunt. Romeny has to pick off the states that McCain lost. big problem
Romney can win the South if he is the nominee but he would need someone like Rick Perry as a Veep Nominee to help pull in the right wingers. This is where an middle of the road independent like me gets screwed, the guy I support (Ron Paul) would never make out of the Primaries but if he did, I think people would be foolish to underestimate him, he has a grass roots campaign of young people reminiscent of the Obama campaign in '08.
Frankly, I truly hoped Obama would make real change but it's more of the same. He promised to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and instead, we have gotten involved in Libya and Yemen (but hey, what's two more wars?). He promised not to force government healthcare, that he would only push for reforms (guess we know how that went dont we), and of course, he promised with his stimulus that he would be able to prevent unemployment going above 8% but his love child the stimulus only ended up helping wall street and bloated Detroit automakers and their union friends, what about the rest of this country? Obama is a fool, and no matter who runs against him on the GOP ticket, they will get this independents vote. His blatant lies have pushed this middle of the road guy further right, it is disgusting to see the level of government expansion under his watch.
If Romney picks Marco Rubio or Herman Cain as VP, he's got the South. Rubio would give him a lock on Florida and I don't care if Obama goes to Puerto Rico 150 times. Right now I see Obama winning California, New York, Hawaii, and Michigan. Past that he's screwed, and Michigan's not a lock.
Obama's been a terrible President. The whole country knows it. He would already be getting slammed like "Jimma Carter" if he wasn't a person of color.
The media and most minorities in the country are having a hard time admitting the man's a failure. Thank God for people like Herman Cain and Marco Rubio that tell it the way it is and don't let skin color cloud their judgement.
When the people step in the booth and pull the curtain, most of the clouded judgement will clear up and their wallets and pocket books will take over.
How are earth does a President change anything when no one is working with him in the Congress. We are all a bunch of morons if we put any of the Republicans/Tea Party in office in 2012. I do not know what to do either. But, I do know that without JOBS the United States will go nowhere. We can give all the tax breaks in the world to the Corporations and they will take the jobs overseas.
Lets give the tax breaks after the Corporation has brought the jobs back to us. Remember the beautiful textiles we used to get from the southern states, now we get crap from the rest of the world. Tax cuts only for the Corporations coming back into the U.S. If we have to pay higher prices , okay, because I am for taxing the @!$%# out of the goods coming into the United States Who knows what the outcome will be...maybe jobs coming back.
@Ron, Don't count bringing Rubio in as a done deal here in Florida. People here in Florida are fleeing the rep/tp party. We have a rep/tp governor, excuse me CEO Rick 'the Crook' Scott. He has upset so many people that they are signing up as Independents and Democrats. Rubio wants to be president in 2016. Right now any current candidate who is linked with Scott can guarantee a loss in the state of Florida.
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2011/06/police_benevolent_association_leave_the_party_republicans.php
Bill,
As you probably know, it is way, way too early for any Republican cadidate to unviel their platforms in detail.
If any one of them has a feasable plan to bring prosperity back to America, and I'm sure they do, they would be beyond foolish to play that card now. Any good idea would instantly be hijacked by Obama, to be claimed as his own.
Once Obama's ship of state is washed up on the rocks of history, it will be the proper time to bring out the magic wand, and lay down the winning solutions that Obama couldn't grasp if his life depended on it.
This is called politics, get used to it.
Ali Velshi asked Michele Bachmann this AM what we should do with the corporate tax rate in the context of stimulating job creation. She responded that we all know that corporate taxes are passed on to the consumer, and then added some additional dribble that has nothing to do with the situation.  If that is the case, what does it matter what the rate is?
Additionally, why does no one notice that corporations are not creating jobs because they do not need to do so. Most corporations are making excellent profits because their costs are down and worker productivity is up. Only when there is enough demand that current production and productivity cannot meet demand will employment levels increase. It seems we are in a catch 22.Â
Exactly, republicans all like to complain about unemployment rates to appear to rally support from the people who don't vote for them anyway but what they really want is for unemployment to continue upward. It keeps the working class hungry and wages low.
"She responded that we all know that corporate taxes are passed on to the consumer, and then added some additional dribble that has nothing to do with the situation. If that is the case, what does it matter what the rate is?" Are you serious, Kraig? It matters because the corporation doesn't pay it, the consumer does. Consumers include poor people. Let's try "Tyson Chicken" Raise their tax rate, they pass it on, some poor ba$tard living in the inner city now has to pay more for the chicken.
You in favor of raising taxes on the poor people in the inner city because Obama outsmarted your dumba$$ and found a way to hit you with a back door tax? Grow a damn brain.
@ron, Nope.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson/corporate-tax-trickery_b_172720.html
Kraig,
We are always in that same old, same old Catch-22.
Back when Jimmie Carter was the President. We were under 18% inflation. That means that your dollar in the saving account loses 1/5 of it's value in one year. Your invested dollareven at a 10% rate of return is still losing 8% of its value each year. In that type of economy, nobody in their right mind would want to keep money in the bank. The school of thought at that time was to spend all you have, and then borrow as much as possible and spend that too. You knew you would be paying back the loan in cheaper dollars.
okay stantorium doubles down on defense which is ludicrus and no one states that a solution to our budget deficiet is to bring the troops home and end the empire. first time ever most americans believe the 4 wars are causing the debt(duh?)
both cain and Paw Paw are empty suits. the dangerous one is bachman and romney but neither one beats Obama
Obama said the Mavericks couldn't beat the Heat either with Lebron and Wade. Sometimes, substances trumpet style. Obama has style, but no substance. It's the economy stupid.
rene591,
Why do you say Michelle Bachman and Mitt Romney are Dangerous??
repbu don't want to govern ,,,they want to make money for the businesses who inturn keep them in power...you've heard their plan .. get rid of the safety net.....clean air and water...do we really need that...fda...come on a drug company selling drugs that are harmful for profit pretty farfetched huh....regulate wall street what could go wrong ...subprime mortages....what......in a country with everyone looking out for themselves ...we probably need goverment to protect us from ourselves sad but true..
didnt paw paw leave a 5 billion dollar def...in minny
Marc huff,
paw paw?? det?? minny??
What in the hell are you talking about??
WOW Disabled Vet…if you really are....quotes with sources?....unfortunately the sources are all liberal talking points and articles; mixed in with name calling and we have another typical liberal who will automatically dismiss ANYTHING the other side has to say. You and your ilk continue to look for a means to pounce, distract, dismiss, and attack. You are what obliterates America. I don’t care if you are a disabled vet or not you and your ilk cause more hate, anger and contempt while perpetrating a divide in this nation making it a hostile bitter country
Accept the fact that there are people with different ideologies and philosophies than you…name calling and personal attacks makes you and the “Red head” look like shrill angry losers…does your spew make me want to change my party and embrace your ideas…heavens NO!...It just makes me angry.
here old buddy i'll stop the hate if you can answer me this question with two parts under ryan's plan i simply get health insurance from a private health insurance company...what stupid company that's for profit and jettision even young people now is looking to pick up the policy for 60 somethings's ...answer none....not at rate anyone can afford....why would they...? the ryan plan is based on the assumption that private insurance companys what out of the goodness of their heart will take on that risk......the other question is under the voucher system proposed the cost would be transferred to the seniors in the amount of 6400 dollars a year....heard of fixed income...is it going to start being a choice between medication and food...that the america you want for seniors....oh by the way the cost wouldn't be 6400 the second year because healthcare cost raise double digits each year unfortunately their fixed incomes won't....you call that a plan .....riddle me that utahn
Yes! They accused Dems of wanting a death panel and it seems to me this plan would implement a death sentence! I have stood in line behind seniors paying for their prescriptions literally searching for change in their coin purses. Sad day in America when we have no respect for our elders and treat them as a burden.
Mark,
Did I say I support the Ryan plan?...gosh I don’t remember making any statement about "that" plan aaannnnnd I don’t plan to because I don’t like “that plan” for that matter, I dislike the Obama plan...I prefer the Utah plan (Obama has even used positive talking points about the state of Utah’s health plan). Maybe you should realize that just because I am a republican doesn’t mean I march step in the exact same policies. I know its hard for Dems to believe but most republicans do not agree on EVERYTHING as I am sure you don’t agree with every single policy on your side of the isle. It’s called independent thought. BUUUUT I am a Republican, proud to be a Republican…please don’t try to shame me into defending an issue where you actually have no idea if I support or not.
Utahn,
I think I figured out the Navy Vet's disability...he has a bad attitude.
Did they even understand it was a debate?...They... once again showed America they have nothing !!!America is wise to the say nothing... but bash Obama ...It didnt work last year and its still not working...those 1998 play books didn't work then... and still don't work ....
didn't work last year? Really....... what planet are you living on?
Sure worked great in November 2010.
Dems took a major ass-whuppin and they are getting gun shy over a repeat performance coming in November 2012.
I will be dancing in my living room when I hear Obama give his concession speech.
That I should record....to play over and over when I need a good laugh.
In the whole article Ron Paul's name was not mentioned one time. hummmm
Of course that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he is the only repub candidate that can actually swipe some leftwing votes from Obama. Nothing at all.
its a damn shame that ron paul will never be president,,he is the only canditate to ever even talk about the idea of auditing the federal reserve and putting more regulations on wall street and the banks.
untill something is done about the federal reserve and the central banking system and untill major regulations are used on the crooks on wallstreet our economy will NEVER recover ,, it will only get worse and worse
the people of america really need to wake up
Shocker,
My son, who is a confirmed liberal, was so impressed with Ron Paul, that he said he is going to switch partys. That opened my eyes. I was discounting Paul because of his age, but now I think he deserves a much closer look.