I swore I would no longer put myself through the distress of watching Gotcha Gregory on MTP!

However, I must confess I tuned in to see Debbie Wasserman Schultz eat Reince Priebus for LUNCH!

She didn't disappoint!

PRICELESS!

It's no wonder the right wingers are so intimidated by her, she doesn't take any cr@p and refuses to let people talk over her!

Debbie had her facts in order and poor little Reince was shell-shocked before all was said & done! lol

Bonus points to Debbie, for extending not only her hand but her call for BOTH parties to sit down and WORK on the problems facing this country.

Notice – the party of obstructionist's fearless 'leader' did NOT accept the offer?

JUST SAY NO lives on…

Speaking of Santorum - I can sum him up in ONE word - CREEPY!

Meanwhile, I had tears in my eyes when I saw the photos of Gabby Giffords! What a miraculous path to recovery she has traveled! May her journey continue to be successful…

In other news, all I will say about Weiner is, the dude has some serious 'man-scaping' going on.
Even so, he still NEEDS to go!

For those who might of missed Bill Maher & Jane Lynch read Weiner's actual 'sext' messages from the 'Weinerlogues', you HAVE to check it out! It's MUST see TV! LMAO *popcorn*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HClsBFDLye4

Holy pitch forks and torches Batman! There's a mob forming for a debate.

FR: Tim Pawlenty took his first true jab at Romney on health care, telling FOX yesterday: “President Obama said that he designed ObamaCare after RomneyCare, and basically made it ObamneyCare

Gov. Pawlenty left a $6 billion budget gap in Minnesota, while the other states! Property taxes rose for 90% of Minnesotans on Pawlenty’s watch.”

T-paw better take a jab at those numbers.

I don't have cable, I have an analog TV with a digital converter box, and I seem to have lost NBC when the leaves came out on the trees. Sunday I was forced to watch ABC's political show, instead of Meet The Press. And then God smote me.

Christianne Amanpour, the journalist tragically held for months now by a right-wing news division, had Peggy Noonan and Jake Tapper on to discuss Weiner for the first twenty minutes. I despise Peggy Noonan AND Jake Tapper, who is, as far as I am concerned, not a journalist but a right-wing media thug.

Peggy Noonan, of course, found an opening to trot out her new catch-phrase: "President Obama inherited a financial crisis and two wars, and then he made it WORSE!" She then went into a keening frenzy over the new unemployment figures, failing to add, and she is old enough to remember, the 10.8% unemployment rate that crested during Ronald Reagan's first term (when his approval rating was 35%.) Peggy Noonan is such a partisan putz, why, why, why, do the Sunday shows inflict this kind of "dialogue" on the public. If I am able to watch Meet The Press next Sunday and she is there I will explode.

Bev:

This is an excellent post. Perhaps one of your best! Well done.

Hedonism over Weiner’s stupid fetish has doiminated the air waves.

Like I said before what Weiner did was despicable. But, he never lied on the House floor about legislation. Republicans knew he was a very outspoken advocate of the people. So they get their hit man, Breibart, to go after him.

Weiner exposed...

THE 'JUDICIAL INSIDER TRADING' OF JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS AND WIFE 'GINNI'

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8561

After all, who is gonna be a Yes vote to continue the gulf between the haves and have-nots? You guessed it JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS.

Hopefully, the treatment will make Weiner whole again and Republicans will work with President Obama with the business; of the country particuly JOBS instead of Weiner’s schlong !!

Republicans LIE and Weiner has the chutzpah to call them out in a forceful manner.

Cantor LIES how a bill becomes law in the US

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWsZJTnntYs

Anthony Weiner Reads From Senate ' Children's Book how a bill becomes law

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB8yIejitAo

Cantor Continues To Lie About The CBO Analysis Of Recovery Bill
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/01/28/35404/cantors-stimulus-lies/

Arizona Senator Lies About Planned Parenthood On Senate Floor
http://jezebel.com/5790254/kyl-lies-about-planned-parenthood-on-senate-floor

Michele Bachmann lies about $105 billion in hidden Obamacare funding because she couldn't see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNL9xIiwB1E&feature=player_embedded

But , Bachmann is just wrong to characterize the mandated appropriations in the health care law as "hidden." It was, as the saying goes, hidden in plain sight.
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/no-secret-bachmann-gets-it-wrong/

Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. [7] By 2019,

Lest you forget Navy

Afghanistan became President Obama's war on Tuesday, when he ordered two more U.S. combat brigades into the fight. He will send 17,000 combat troops to join the 36,000-strong U.S. force already in the theater. The fact that the units now ordered to Afghanistan had originally been slated for Iraq underscores the new Administration's shift in priorities.

Read more: www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880253,00.html#ixzz1PABBtdgt

Ron Indiana

Bev:

This is an excellent post. Perhaps one of your best! Well done.

Thank you Ron

I know it's pretty redundant but I feel it's necessary. Apart, from the typing errors nothing is new except the Republicans throwing a party in Florida to leave the GOP.

I love those tent cities in Wisconsin keeping an eye on the crossed eyed badger Governor Walker.

Great post, Beverly. I have often thought about the good all the money businesses donate to legislators to "buy" them would do if those same businesses simply invested that money in itself by adhering to the rules and self-regulating what they know is bad for workers, the people and the environment. Investing in itself would create jobs in the process--investing in the purchase of legislators simply buys them profits at the expense of their own business in the long term.

The Medicare prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 also will substantially increase deficits and debt, but we are unable to quantify these impacts due to data limitations.)

Lest we forget #2

Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion.

www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html

How's Obama's tanking Approval Rating doing today? Here's an idea that will help solve all our national economic and international woes......let's gas up Air Force One and head for Puerto Rico and take Anthony Weiner with him and just drop him off!

LouisJ

Holy pitch forks and torches Batman! There's a mob forming for a debate.

Yea, a mob of imbeciles is forming. How much do you wanna wager Michelle Batwoman looks in the wrong camera?

Well, three of the Dem leadership pols finally got around to calling on Anthony Weiner to resign on Saturday, about a week too late. They should have done so last Monday night or Tuesday morning, after his press conference. As noted in the article below, many in the Dem leadership still have not called for him to resign. Although I believe this pervert should resign, I am now looking forward to him staying and being a thorn in the sides of the Dems. Let’s face it if the DNC Chair and House Minority Leader call for his resignation and Anthony basically tells them to bend over and kiss his weiner, there can only be many, many Hillaryous laughs ahead of us.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Politico:

Dems worry Weiner will hurt agenda
By: Jonathan Allen and Jake Sherman
June 12, 2011 11:10 PM EDT

Democratic leaders face a no-win situation this week as the House convenes for the first time since Rep. Anthony Weiner acknowledged sending sexual photographs and text messages to a half-dozen women over the past three years.

Reps. Nancy Pelosi of California, Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida and Steve Israel of New York — the House minority leader, the Democratic National Committee chairwoman and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee chairman, respectively — failed to force Weiner from office after going public Saturday with previously private demands that he resign from the seat he has held since 1999.

Still, several House leaders — Minority Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland, Assistant Democratic Leader Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson of Connecticut and Vice Chairman Xavier Becerra of California — pointedly did not join the choreographed team push. None of them has directly called for Weiner to resign, though Hoyer did say Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation” that he hopes “he would make that judgment.”

It was striking to some Democrats that Pelosi called on Weiner to resign, because he had supported her in leadership elections. Now Weiner, who’s always been a bit of a loose cannon, may feel free to make trouble for Democratic leaders if he stays in office.

“She fired the shot. And if he doesn’t resign, she fired and missed,” said a Democratic lawmaker. “He’s not the kind of guy you want out there doing [stuff]” to retaliate.

alwaysfaithfull

How's Obama's tanking Approval Rating doing today? Here's an idea that will help solve all our national economic and international woes......let's gas up Air Force One and head for Puerto Rico!

That's stupid. Only a t-bagger would not know the Puerto Ricans in Continental USA can't vote; if revving up the base is what you're looking for.

Great post, Beverly. I have often thought about the good all the money businesses donate to legislators to "buy" them would do if those same businesses simply invested that money in itself by adhering to the rules and self-regulating what they know is bad for workers, the people and the environment. Investing in itself would create jobs in the process--investing in the purchase of legislators simply buys them profits at the expense of their own business in the long term.

That's funny because that's how I feel about Unions. Having been a union member and watched the union executive debate a motion on whether "blackball" or "blackleg" be removed from English while members were losing benefits and jobs changed my mind.

www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0611/early_enrollment_f1682da5-a7df-4f7a-9a57-b88685bb6191.html

Now where did this $60m come from and when did the members vote to spend it on this purpose occur?

That's stupid. Only a t-bagger would not know the Puerto Ricans in Continental USA can't vote; if revving up the base is what you're looking for.

..and only an idiot like you wouldn't understand pandering. There are over four million Puerto Ricans living in the US who can vote. They are based in strategic states like Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

I see the idiot from Albany continues to obsess over Weiner's - 'weinee'!

It's ALL Weiner 24/7 with him...

Not too obvious there's some serious 'envy' going on! ;o)

There are over four million Puerto Ricans living in the US who can vote. They are based in strategic states like Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Don't fret Alan - he'll visit them as well...

Even Mike Murphy understands the Teapublicans will have a tough time courting the fastest growing demographics!

I'll repeat what I said on the last thread, Beverly. Breitbart could not have trapped Weiner had Weiner not allowed himself to be trapped. ALL of the blame for that has to go to Weiner, who should have known from the first picture on that this was a disaster waiting to happen.

As I said there, he reminds me most of Gary Hart, who also seems to have had a death wish, and who dared reporters to follow him. Of course, they did, to Hart's demise.

Two wrongs never make a right, but by making himself vulnerable to this, Weiner has done a real disservice to those who relied on his to be the conscience of the House of Representatives. Other Democrats need to pick up the mantle and focus their energy on the things that matter, but in my opinion, Weiner has to go. By trying to lie his way out of what a lot of people have insisted was never that important to begin with, Weiner made matters worse and proved that he didn't learn a thing from Bill Clinton's example. He lacks the necessary judgment and integrity to be a leader on Congress.

How the City of New York might feel about it is a different question altogether. After all, they put up with Rudy Giuliani, didn't they?

One of the best threads I've seen here, nearly every post a winner. Bev, thanks for starting the show as well as your follow up that shows how the Conservative and MSM fixation on Anthony Wiener, the federal debt, and a momentary, typical uptick in the unemployment rate distract from more important issues. The best path to improving the deficit is REBUILDING JOBS. Meanwhile the legalized bribery of Citizens United continues and the corrupt members of the SCOTUS continue to make things worse for average Americans.

US Navy--another terrific, factual one from you, too.

As for Afghanistan now being President Obama's war, it does not alter the fact that it was Bush/Cheney and the GOP who started it WITHOUT paying for it, without paying for Iraq and without paying for anything they did. One can now blame President Obama for continuing the Afghan war but it is not he and democrats who refuse to pay for it by eliminating tax loopholes, increasing the high-end tax rate on 2% of the people by 3%--that fiscal irresponsibility belongs solely to the GOPTP which continues to fail to govern responsibly.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

ECONOMIC DOWNTURN AND BUSH POLICIES CONTINUE

TO DRIVE LARGE PROJECTED DEFICITS

Excellent as usual, Navy, how can anyone possibly take Michele Bachmann seriously. She lied about her law degree, the $105 billion in hidden Obamacare funding; plus she doesn't know a thing about history. The Bush tax cuts were just trifling.

The $2.5 Trillion Tragedy: What America Has Given Up For 10 Years Of Bush Tax Cuts

Here are ten alternatives we could've pursued instead:

- Give 122.7 Million Children Low-Income Health Care Every Year For Ten Years

- Give 49.2 Million People Access To Low-Income Healthcare Every Year For Ten Years

- Provide 43.1 Million Students With Pell Grants Worth $5,500 Every Year For Ten Years

- Provide 31.5 Million Head Start Slots For Children Every Year For Ten Years

- Provide VA Care For 30.7 Million Military Veterans Every Year For Ten Years

- Provide 30.4 Million Scholarships For University Students Every Year For Ten Years

- Hire 4.19 Million Firefighters Every Year For Ten Years

- Hire 3.67 Million Elementary School Teachers Every Year For Ten Years

- Hire 3.6 Million Police Officers Every Year For Ten Years

- Retrofit 144.6 Million Households For Wind Power Every Year For Ten Years

- Retrofit 54.2 Million Households For Solar Photovoltaic Energy Every Year For Ten Years

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/07/237560/10-years-bush-tax-cuts/

Alan: Thank you for the link on the White House position on further cost-savings. Someone posted a link at Facebook yesterday that detailed a gathering held by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the same military industrialist lobbyists whose interests we have catered to in Iraq, calling it "Iraq Opportunities" or something like that.

Both of these things are disgusting. When Democrats fail to act like Democrats we get a world run by Republicans. How's that looking to you, Alan? I assume your whole point in posting the link is that it's a BAD thing.

Well, three of the Dem leadership pols finally got around to calling on Anthony Weiner to resign on Saturday, about a week too late.

Joe,

See my comment below...next time we'll just get the Speaker of the House to cover up the whole thing they way the GOP did for Mark Foley.

As for Afghanistan now being President Obama's war, it does not alter the fact that it was Bush/Cheney and the GOP who started it WITHOUT paying for it, without paying for Iraq and without paying for anything they did.

So where did the money come from? Did it grow on trees? No it came from the same source as the $800B stimulus of 2009. It was borrowed. It was also appropriated from Congress, voted on by a majority through the Supplemental Appropriations process.

So tell me Jody which administration is winning the competition for the most borrowed money they can spend?

Did someone mention Presidential job approval? Thanks for reminding us that President Obama's approval is currently UP from where it was a year ago and STILL better than the approval rate for presidents Reagan or Clinton at the same point in their terms. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

Wow, I missed a lot.

Weiner. Enough said.

DWS- contends that republicans plan on making illegal immigration a crime? Hello, Debbie. It already IS- a crime, that is. Nice of the democrats to put someone a few I.Q. Points shy of Palin out there.

Speaking of Palin, that email fiasco sure is leaving the media with egg on its collective face. Turns out there is no "there" there.

Kind of odd that the New York Times and Washington Post are asking for help from their dwindling readership to unearth a smoking gun from those emails. How, exactly, does that fit with the democrats' "we're better for women" meme?

How does Weiner?

Looks like Obama may have to make good on. Campaign promise from 2008- and actually take public funding for his
campaign. Not quite making those fundraising goals

http://www.businessinsider.com/obamas-fund-raising-quarter-big-miss-2011-5

On a personal note- princess is out of the hospital. She did extremely well at tolerating the surgery, and is on track for a great recovery. Tests in six weeks will tell us if the surgery was successful. Please God, it was- none of us could go through this again.

Thanks for all the prayers and good thoughts.

Jody, Iowa

US Navy--another terrific, factual one from you, too.

As for Afghanistan now being President Obama's war, it does not alter the fact that it was Bush/Cheney and the GOP who started it WITHOUT paying for it, without paying for Iraq and without paying for anything they did. One can now blame President Obama for continuing the Afghan war but it is not he and democrats who refuse to pay for it by eliminating tax loopholes, increasing the high-end tax rate on 2% of the people by 3%--that fiscal irresponsibility belongs solely to the GOPTP which continues to fail to govern responsibly.

Thank you

No truer words could be spoken, Jody.

We have a honest President who put the 2 wars on the budget and people don't want to belive the truth. As is if they want to be lied to. I guess some are having separation anxieties from the lies.

GOP in Manchester......what will they say and what will they not say?

they will say Obama brought this impending plague of an economy unto us even when all statistics have shown he's made progress and they will not say they have not offered any meaningful alternative, not alternatives, solution to Washington cul de sac.

Feisty,

That Jane Lynch/Bill Maher bit was absolutely hysterical. And sad. Why someone would put that conversation 'out there' in print to be mocked and ridiculed is completely beyond me. I think narcissism must be a factor. At any rate,...He's a d-bag and should step down; but his constituents should ultimately decide that. As long as David Vitter, the criminal, continues to hold his seat - this is a nontroversy for me. Happy Monday, friends and foes. Let's keep it honest this week!

PS. Yellowdawg! Whoo Hoo! Way to Go, Mavs! What a fund turn of events.

$175,000 a year salary, best health care coverage bar none, lifetime pension for 5 years service, months of paid vacation per year, and you can't be fired even when you admit you have committed a crime. These people have some gall wanting to deprive a teacher or a highway worker of their collective bargaining rights. No collective bargaining agreement has ever come close to this, not even the NFL players. I say we deprive Congress of their collective bargaining rights, (no need to pay all the lazy slackers the same as the people that do the work), they can individually cut a deal with their district, they might have to pick up their own health care costs or be responsible and fund their own retirement. Hell at least in states where republican governors are eliminating collective bargaining rights, the representatives of those states should live by the laws of the land. I know republicans are all about individual states rights, well prove it live by your states laws and chip in for your health care and retirement, take drug tests, and get your sorry butt fired for crimes committed on the job. Debate that republicans, come on I want to hear you justify this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/books/review/book-review-reckless-endangerment-by-gretchen-morgenson-and-joshua-rosner.html

Looks that this is "The Book" to read this season, if for no other reason than to focus our ire and wrath on the appropriate people.

It is past time that "We the PEOPLE" stand and fight against those harming our way of life.

I watched MTP and Im not sure what you saw as far as who had who for lunch. If you call the face making and eye rolling as eating someone for lunch your going to be an easy bunch to beat! The woman is a walking commercial for face paint! And I love the fact that her and Ms Pelosi have decided to eat their own now! I wonder if they will fight over the .........god I have to say this..... Wiener! I just hope he keeps on track and is able to be the Democratic poster boy for this coming election.

Both of these things are disgusting. When Democrats fail to act like Democrats we get a world run by Republicans. How's that looking to you, Alan? I assume your whole point in posting the link is that it's a BAD thing.

You assume correct. I was for Afghanistan after 9/11 but now I can't even say it's a lost cause because I don't understand what our mission is. Iraq is/was a tragedy. Libya, another example of an Imperial Presidency. On Pharma, someone explain to me how the largest purchaser of drugs cannot get deep discounts. On tax rates, they should have been allowed to revert to the rates prior to 2001. I have been consistent about this for the last 10 years. I wanted Gore in 2000. I have been disappointed in government for the last 11 years. When members of a party do not challenge the President of the same party bad things happen. There are too few members of principle in Congress. Thats why I like Ron Paul and Russ Feingold. I may not agree with them on the issues but I respect them. Same with Kucinich. Totally disagree with many of his positions but he sticks with them.

no joe, no bo, nj

Glad your little granddaughter is out of the woods. Modern medicine is amazing.

I found the Palin emails depressing. Makes you wonder what exactly it is that governors do? Or, are they just front people for hard working aides and influencial lobbyists? I would like to see the emails of a different governor to compare. Surely they can't all be as expendable as she was?

We have far too many problems in this country to waste time on silly spectacles. It is time to bury the Anthony Weiner issue. No one but his wife, his constituents, and his Democratic counterparts in Congress have a legitimate stake in that issue. Why not his Republican counterparts? They don't have time. They have to deal with David Vitter.

It is time to ignore Sarah Palin and Donald Trump. Both are insidious, lying, self-promoters who have no idea how to solve the nation's problems. They are air pollution.

Now, to tonight's "debate", which is going to offer heaping plates of criticism and warmed-up leftovers. One will be the bald-faced lie about business investment being impeded by uncertainty. Golly gee, small businesses just don't know what's going to happen.

Point 1: Yoo-hoo, NO ONE knows what's going to happen or when it's going to happen. You want certainty? OK, we're told there are two things that are certain: Death and taxes, which takes us to

Point 2: We're all going to die. (You have my word on it.) If a small business person knows he is going to die, why would he postpone a decision? Is that type of thinking from the brilliant, private-enterprise-can-do-no-wrong model? Now, about those taxes! We have had a tax cut in place for nine years now, soon to be ten, and small businessmen are uncertain? OK, you want certainty? It is an absolute fact that the reduction in tax rates is now the single largest component of the national debt. Unemployment has risen for the past four years and now appears to be moderating between 8.5% and 9.5%. After nine years these investment mavens are still uncertain? They aren't uncertain, they're about profits, which leads to

Point 3: American labor has priced itself out of the world market. So wonderful, so skillful, so talented, and so full of self-esteem are American workers that they refuse to take work that is snapped up by illegal aliens. So, the money that's available for investment is now going to countries that have low-cost labor. Thomas Friedman recounts a story that epitomizes this issue. Mexicans are importing statues of their favored saints from......drum roll, please.......China.

"Uncertainty" is a code word that means, "We want indemnification from risk. We are not really capitalists, we are sissies who want a guaranteed return on our investment. And by the way, we don't want to pay taxes."

These are the guys who sell the notion each and every day that private enterprise can do things - hell, everything - better than government. Yet, they are on bended knee asking that same government to protect them from the evils of the capitalist world and from the predators who prowl the free market. Lest anyone doubt, none other than Joe Scarborough can confirm that as fact.

The "uncertainty" talking point is 100% pure, unadulterated BS. Small business isn't about taxes. Lots of taxes means lots of success. Small business is about having a better idea, it's about delivering your product or service efficiently and effectively, it's about very hard work, and it's about attention to detail. Is government a pain-in-the-backside? You bet, but for sheer headaches nothing approaches the nightmare of the very thing that makes a business person successful........the freaking customer.

Uncertainty about the future will always be there. Always.

Amy B. Portland, ME

President Obama inherited a financial crisis and two wars, and then he made it WORSE!" She then went into a keening frenzy over the new unemployment figures, failing to add, and she is old enough to remember, the 10.8% unemployment rate that crested during Ronald Reagan's first term (when his approval rating was 35%.) Peggy Noonan is such a partisan putz, why, why, why, do the Sunday shows inflict this kind of "dialogue" on the public.

LOL

God smote me too. Peggy Noonan is an old goat. All she does chew on ways to make Ronald Reagan and Republicans look right. Jake Tapper struck a blow with me defending the Fear Factory aka FOX NOISE when David Axelrod you shouldn't watch for news. Christine Armapour told where Bin Laden was hiding in Villa in pakistan 21/2 YEARS AGO.

BTW: Stocks gained today buoyed by a handful of M&A news and after investors snapped up beaten-down stocks following six straight weeks of declines. Why aren't the republican talking about that?

Some outstanding posts here today - and stuff that NEEDS repeating in many cases.

The very IDEA Reince Priebus could claim that the President is a total failure whose efforts have made things worse is an absolute barn-burning hot LIE. The strategy behind this vile revisionist history of course, is to exploit people's continuing worries about the economy and jobs, to attempt to attach to the President an emotional response regardless of the TRUTH. And the TRUTH is that this disaster began trundling down the launching ways in 1981 with Ronald Reagan, that it is the cumulative effect of 30 years' worth of utter failure of the "Free market" Milton Friedman ideology, and that the GOP's call to return to that ideology GUARANTEES economic disaster.

So for the President has managed to guide the country -despite constant obstructionism from the right wing GOP - forrward out of the abyss. President Obama, at this stage, has been more successful than President Roosevelt was at the same stage in his first term. And just like Roosevelt, President Obama is now confronted by a bitter, regressive opposition that would willingly tank the entire nation - and the world, for that matter - to suit their narrow, partisan, ideological objectives.

Despite that, President Roosevelt survived a second recessionary wave and was re-elected in 1936. The President today will do so, too, and hopefully without a "double dip" recession. But we can hear the GOP/TP stalwarts saying their evening prayers - and the pleas directed upward are not about making America healthier and happier at this time.

Maybe the Devil makes them do it.

AMY B.

"Modern medicine is amazing"

Don't let Teapublicants here that cause they'll start carrying banners to protest against it.

Alan, NJ

..and only an idiot like you wouldn't understand pandering. There are over four million Puerto Ricans living in the US who can vote. They are based in strategic states like Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

But thats not what he said. Puerta Ricans in Puerta Rico that can vote? Learn to read.

Nasty redhead

Did you hear Debbie Wasserman Schlutz berate the RNC Chairperson about the republicans being in office for 6 months and not doing anything about jobs? He mentioned the fact that there have been 2.5 million jobs lost since Obama took office. Then the loud mouth said twice after that how there have been one million jobs created in the past six months. She brags about a million jobs in the past six months? She says the republicans have been in charge the past six months. What is she trying to say?

Before you say I'm full of something please get the transcript of MTP and read it carefully.

Still chuckling over Bev's description of Meet The Press host David Gregory as a "Republican shill"...priceless!

And all because Gregory had the temerity to question Debbie Wasserman Schultz's assertion that President Obama has turned the economy around. Gregory told Deb that Americans don't believe that at all...he's right about that, if nothing else.

Latest polling from CBS shows 79% of those polled say the economy is "bad"; CNN finds that 81% believe the economy is "poor"; Quinnipiac says that 78% of its poll respondents believe the economy is in recession now; ABC News/Wash Post finds that views on the economy are 89% "negative".

Hmmm...

Debbie Wasserman Schultz must have passed through the looking glass.

David Gregory told the truth. Any serious journalist would have challenged Rep. Wasserman Schultz, Bev.

P.S.- Best wishes to you and the little one, njnb, and sincere hopes for a speedy recovery.

@Mike-416

What post are you talking about?

Wisconson democrats attacking special olympians follow in the footsteps of their Marxist leader Obama.

Governor Walker handled the distraction (progressive leftists dressed as "zombies" interfering with disabled special olympians) with great skill, not allowing the protesters to distract him. In his remarks Walker congratulated the athletes, and brought the focus back to purpose of the event.

http://conservativelyspeaking.us/http:/conservativelyspeaking.us/archives/682

What is WRONG with Obama, Weiner, Walters, Frank, Rangle and the other liberal progressives have they no morals, ethics, shame or humanity PICKING on SPECIAL OLYMPIANS?

Why is it that Republicans are so eager to make the Bush Tax Cuts into the Obama Tax Cuts? Or the Bush wars in Iraq and Afghanistan into the Obama Wars? Could it be that they were such bad ideas in the first place that Republicans can't wait to get rid of them?

Fact is they are AMERICAN problems. We need to work TOGETHER to resolve them.

JH. Well, duh, those 2.5 million were lost in the first few months AFTER President Obama took the helm from President Bush--Wasserman Schultz was not disputing that fact. The country was losing 750,000 jobs a month immediately before and after Obama's election. No president, R or D, can wave a magic wand on inauguration day to suddenly make the job losses stop. Go back and look at the number of jobs lost while Bush was in office--the recession began in Dec 2007--before Candidate Obama was even the democratic nominee. No one needs to read the MTP transcript but conservatives should try looking at the facts resulting from the events during the financial collapse which began in Aug 2008.

Instead of republicans trying to blame President Obama to play political football and win in 2012, they should have been trying to help solve the problems. For two years, the GOP has not had the courage to do anything except say NO--fear of their base makes them ineffective at anything especially governing.

RVZ:

Did you have something intelligent to say?

While not a Republican, Thank the Lord for the GOP, because the Libs would not have anything else to talk about otherwise. Ooops, probably will get blasted for not separating church & state. I thank all of you for my daily entertainment - who needs Oprah, Idol, Dancing & Jerry Springer, this is much better !

Anna Molly

I'll repeat what I said on the last thread, Beverly. Breitbart could not have trapped Weiner had Weiner not allowed himself to be trapped. ALL of the blame for that has to go to Weiner, who should have known from the first picture on that this was a disaster waiting to happen.

As I said there, he reminds me most of Gary Hart, who also seems to have had a death wish, and who dared reporters to follow him. Of course, they did, to Hart's demise.

Of course Weiner is responsible for what happened. But, how is Breibert did not go after the most recent Republican sex Scandals like Randy Hopper living outside the district he represents with a 25-year-old mistress Or Pete Sessions who had a fund raiser in a strip club?

I just feel there is a difference between lying about your personal life and legislation. Maybe he was embarrassed. I don't know. Maybe, he thought he could get away with it. If Wenier should go then Vitter should go. As I see, it why must we comply to Republican games? They seldom do what we ask.

Too funny about the cross dresser. I will give a little credit to BriEbart Wenier was the first person of non-color Breibart showed pictures of. LOL

Madison from NY:

Governor Walker handled the distraction (progressive leftists dressed as "zombies" interfering with disabled special olympians) with great skill, not allowing the protesters to distract him. In his remarks Walker congratulated the athletes, and brought the focus back to purpose of the event.

It gets so tiresome listening to conservatives lie. If you'll kindly read my post below, and the accompanying link from the local Madison, Wisconsin, newspaper, you will see that the protestors were not targeting the Special Olympics in particular, and ....

THERE WAS NO DISRUPTION ...

Even Special Olympics officials said that the protestors were silent and respectful.

The TRUTH is that Walker's "handling" of this "distraction" certainly hasn't "distracted" him from carrying through with his plan to make deep cuts in benefits -- which, in all likelihood will happen this week -- for the very disabled individuals that he was pretending to support with his appearance at Special Olympics.

Anthony may have a few Oscar Mayer "wiener" problems, but Scott Walker is nothing but phony baloney.

Now, begone. People like you have no power among people who actually read and think.

Jody

This country goes the way of Congress. Congress was DEMOCRAT when the jobs started going away in 2007. Yes, Bush was still in office but the dems were in charge. The past six months, as Debbie Schlutz says, we have created 1 million jobs. That is pretty damn good if you consider that the dems still control the Senate. The fact that the republicans control the House is the reason for any job growth. We must get rid of the progressives so we can get back to real work in this country. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you but this country has seen the progressive agenda and we spoke very loud last election. We will finish the job next election.

I still think that the Democrats need to take the high ground and start cleaning the House by punting one of their own. Weiner's behaviour was disgraceful and brings his party and the House into disrepute. That he now intends to thumb his ample nose at the Democratic party leadership while continuing to survive wholly at taxpayers' expense is more than distressing. Sadly he is largely following precedent. A precedent that NEEDS to be changed.

Wasserman Schultz needs to stimiluate the economy and get her teeth fixed. talk about squeaking when you walk.

Beverly:

I just feel there is a difference between lying about your personal life and legislation. Maybe he was embarrassed. I don't know. Maybe, he thought he could get away with it. If Wenier should go then Vitter should go. As I see, it why must we comply to Republican games? They seldom do what we ask.

Beverly ~ If Weiner had had an affair -- either virtual or otherwise -- with a woman me met at the grocery store, I would probably agree with you. But those are not the facts. He met these women while he was on Facebook and Twitter, doing business -- as he himself put it -- as a Congressman. That alone crosses the line between "private" and "public." They followd him BECAUSE he was a Congressman. Unlike the woman at the grocery store, Weiner wouldn't have known these women unless he was a Congressman. From what I understand, he was using his status as part of whatever "game" he was playing, telling women about his status as he was sending the photos. Now we see that he was even using Congressional facilities to take the photos. He lied about it to his colleagues and his constituents, as well as to the media and the general public.

I absolutely agree about Vitter and have said so out here many times before. Ironically, Republicans who express their phony outrage over public employees using "taxpayer dollars" to pay union dues seem to have no similar outrage over Vitter using his taxpayer salary to engage in illegal activity with prostitutes. Vitter should resign.

But two wrongs don't make a right, and if we take that position as to Weiner, then we have just lowered our own standards by another bar. What Weiner did is to damage his credibility as the conscience of the House, and thereby totally undermine his own effectiveness as a spokesperson for truth, justice, and the Democratic way of thought. There's a political price to be paid for that, whatever you think of it from a moral perspective.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Fiesty..why do u care about Albanys obsession with Weiner..sounds like u are obsessed with Albany

I notice none of the liberal shills (Bev, USN, Feisty, Anna) want to talk about Obama's campaign stops.

Like the one at Cree today.

Per the White House, Cree Inc. is a “leading manufacturer of energy-efficient LED lighting.”

Nothing about Cree Inc getting $39 million in stimulus money? That Cree used that money to build a plant in China? That for 39 million they hired less than 200 people?

Obama is only good at creating jobs....in China.

If there are any true Republicans and/or conservatives here, I hope you are reading these posts closely. When people who say they are conservative and/or Republican come here to mock Congresswoman Wasserman's teeth, or are fixated on Congressman Weiner's genitalia, you should be paralyzed with fear. Really? This is what passes for substantive comment. When these same people who claim to be Republican and/or conservative offer a pass to Bachmann and Palin although they virtually advertise their ignorance, you should be paralyzed with fear. Really? These vacuous blatherskites are the best the G.O.P. has to offer?

These people are destroying the Republican Party. Offer these people facts that don't square with their dogma and they plug their ears and shout la-la-la. They collapse a post because - as everyone knows - if you can't see it, well.......it didn't happen.

I watched as this happened in California. Decent, upstanding, honest Republicans meekly stood by as the right-wing crazies destroyed any vestige of moderation. Purity tests for all! Come on Republicans! Wake up!

Look what these guys have done to Pawlenty and Romney, probably the two most electable guys the G.O.P. has. Romney is flopping around like a fish out of water trying to please these nuts, and Pawlenty is considering changing his name from Tim to Attila.

Very, very sad.

Joe: I'm all for energy-efficient lighting and completely against stimulus money being used to fund jobs in China.

If what you say is true, and there aren't any other facts that would support the use of stimulus money in that way -- which I can't tell because you didn't provide a link -- the solution is to make Cree pay back, with interest, that part of the money that went for the China expansion.

In the end, I guess it just proves that all businesses aren't ethical and caring, are they? Actually, Cree sounds pretty typical Republican to me. You already know that the corporatist Obama is the Obama that I don't particularly like.

Jody

This country goes the way of Congress. Congress was DEMOCRAT when the jobs started going away in 2007. Yes, Bush was still in office but the dems were in charge. The past six months, as Debbie Schlutz says, we have created 1 million jobs. That is pretty damn good if you consider that the dems still control the Senate. The fact that the republicans control the House is the reason for any job growth. We must get rid of the progressives so we can get back to real work in this country. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you but this country has seen the progressive agenda and we spoke very loud last election. We will finish the job next election.

Because of all the legislation that is being passed? Yes, the republicans have been doing a bang-up job passing barely any bills... On top of which wouldn't it be staggered? Why do we expect immediate reactions to what has happened? Passing a bill that does not go into effect for a year doesn't make the world suddenly change. Is there a single bill the republicans have put out in the last 6 months that have actually changed anything in the stock market or world? I mean I know blocking budgets and trying to defund things is really helping out the job market... lets not forget abortion, that's a job creator right there...

Bev, Redhead and Navy are RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Wiener is a scandal, but who gives a sh*t, resign, not resign, I don't really care, as long as it doesn't help the repubs or dumb democrats continue to destroy us; repubs are going to latch on because its all they have, they've been running scared since the landslide from Obama, regaining some ground in november. The only way the repubs win this thing is to distract completely from what is happening, they need to convince everyone that what they've been doing isn't what they've been doing. They need to convince everyone that all they care about is american prosperity and nothing else, that these social engineering laws, blocking budgets, and disregard for actually balancing the budget (aside from talking about it and proposing draconian legislation that leaves their holy cows alone) isn't them.

They have a waning field of backtrackers that literally are trying to convince people they don't support what they did before. We have romney trying to backtrack medical care, and all the non-republican social engineering he did in mass (also how he wrecked our budget); theres Newt who doesn't need to backtrack that far (the comments he made less then a month ago are apparently old and outdated for him); Pawlenty who was a hated governor and wrecked his budget as well (they really understand the budget process, and will balance it, as long as they don't have to balance it); who's left? Bachman? She just openly lies on a regular basis about her education, the issues, and anything to get her little movement going. Cain? He's got a real chance to be something decent, as long as he doesn't fall for the republican pitfalls, cater to the crazies, or have any skeletons in the closet.

To be honest tho? While your going to look at me like I'm some "crazy lib", who hates everything republican (I think Democrats are just a different breed of a$$hat, but at least they don't do this crazy crap), this looks like its going to be Obama's second term. Maybe if you had some type of decent candidate out there, and if Romney and Pawlenty didn't backtrack so much they'd have a real chance to appeal to everyone and get out and win. I just hope this obstructionism ends, the party bills with party votes (lets face it, dem or republican these bills are all so partisan, and compromise is a dirty word, nothing will be passed; though I think the dems have been at least attempting to reach across, maybe not well but at least slightly), will get us nowhere. But I agree that is the plan, neither side really cares about doing what is right, we've had november in our sights since Obama was elected (the dems want to see if the repub shellacking continues, and last november gives us pause as it didn't appear to; repubs want to see if they have a snowballs chance in hell of getting out there more). That being said, the filibustering is ridiculous, just taking all the toys and saying no-one gets to play if I don't get my way? I mean come on, in record amounts too!

The difference between Gov Walker and the people in the special Olympics is honesty. Those people many with Downes syndrome don't lie, they don't even tell "white lies", even in a crowded elevator they will flat out tell you "I farted". They are the most honest people I have ever met, they seem incapable of looking you in the eye and lying about anything. Gov Walker has no qualms about lying none whatsoever.

Anna Molly:

I'm sure you will be surprised to learn that Cree also raised 400-million-dollars in a stock offering. Golly gee, it seems Mitt and Joe forgot to mention that.

Cree's operation in North Carolina's research triangle added a number of jobs - not certain on the number - with the $29-million in stimulus money. (It seems that a lot of people have also forgotten that the stimulus package included quite a chunk of tax cuts. Facts like that are so inconvenient to the Republican narrative though.)

Cree brings home a great deal of cash from its China operation, although that may be changing. China is now competing with Cree.

The liberal circle jerkers continue to spew the ignorance of the left. Why on earth would we make it harder for illegal aliens to vote? Why would we make it more difficult for Democrat leaning organizations like Acorn to fraudulently register voters? After the left used private citizens as well as their own resources to sift through 24,000 emails from Sarah Palin that were supposed to be private, not a single email could be found to disparage her. When you read the posts from those here that would like to change history, remember what they have said about Palin over the last couple of years. The vile vitriol that they spew is given to disparage anybody that would dare go against the Democrat's agenda to neuter this country into a clone of the failing socialist European countries. And it bothers them not when their is no truth to their posts or only half truths, as is the case with these same slanderers regarding what they've said over and over again here about Sarah Palin.

bring money home? so does every other company that has been forced to move overseas because of the anti american unions!! All our car companies do is "assemble" here! leave it to a uniformed Obama worshiper and a socalist that does not believe in the free market to make a statement like that! Let Obama and the rest of the anti american progressivies to tell you what to eat, what should be seen on the internet, what you should drive, make quotas of employment where seniority rules not work ethic!! You wonder why business is running out of American - It is people like you!!!

@Clara KCMO - PS. Yellowdawg! Whoo Hoo! Way to Go, Mavs! What a fun turn of events.

What a fun, historic run that the Mavs had. Last night was a blast. I'm sure people in Miami would differ with me but sometimes the good guys win. Great to have something to cheer about and take your mind off politics.

This is too funny. The usual suspects start the comments for the wrong and continue to spew hate toward the right. Why don't you girls get a hobby. Maybe you can fill in Oprah's spot and call it "The Wrong Show."

Or maybe the "Bevsty Show."

I think I will vote for Cain. If he wins, that will take the wind out of the sails for those who claim it is all about racism with Obama.

Post 1.38 by David Walker answers the question of why businesses are not investing or hiring workers brilliantly.

I always had trouble with the tired answer of the "uncertainty " of the ...(fill in the blank).

I will count tonight how many times the "uncertainty" excuse is used in the debate.

Oh goodie, another Republican debate: The craziest thing Bachmann ever said is…that she might just run for president (too many crazy things to choose from). Gingrich could redeem himself if he ditches the Party Line, and then stands up to the criticism afterward. Herman will pass a law that bills cannot exceed three pages, because he doesn’t like to read. Maybe John King will ask Romney about his favorite corporate raider experience. Pawlenty will…snore.

Riding on the coattails of Paul Ryan, Santorum says he’s also “courageous” -- another new buzzword we can add to “uncertainty.” Santorum isn't courageous, he's crazy! Santorum favors privatizing Medicare including those 55 and older and those on Medicare right now--saying “free market” several times--and gibberish about how people should have freedom in a “free market.” When David Gregory pointed out skyrocketing premiums, Santorum brushed that aside saying health care costs need to be lowered—of course not offering any plan on how to do that—moving quickly to other crazy talk.

And you may have noticed by now men like Santorum, who do not give birth, yet are so obsessed with abortion to the extreme, that it’s obvious they are sexist pigs who don’t want women to have power of any kind.

BTW, I don’t feel David Gregory is a right-wing tool. Rather, in an attempt to be unbiased (and to compete with FOX ratings), the media has been going overboard to accommodate conservatives, to the point of having Noonan or some Tea Party leader on, who can be counted on to make outrageous remarks. Present opposing views, but for heaven’s sake get credible analysts or experts to be on the panel. Don’t lower yourselves to FOX levels.

About the economy (and no, most of the program was not about Weiner), Gregory is right to say the economy is still poor. However, the way it was said was not correct.

Is Weiner a distraction? Yes, but it is also reminding Americans about David Vitter and all the other Republican scandals (as well it should). If leaders like Wasserman-Schultz continue to counter in this way, Republicans may learn to move off of Weiner as their topic—certainly nothing to campaign on.

Alan NJ, your post #1.36 was nice to see—hope to see more like this.

Lanikai Ron, if you’re not going to keep up with politics and current events, do us a favor and don’t vote. You can keep your Sarah Palin poster above your bed, but just don’t vote. You too shawn. Thanks.

Bob-3374873 wrote: "I think I will vote for Cain. If he wins, that will take the wind out of the sails for those who claim it is all about racism with Obama."

Wow. Really? Seriously?

NoJoe-

If you're still around.....I'm happy to hear your little princess is much better. I've kept her and your family in my prayers. She's too little to endure so much, isn't she? She is very blessed to have a family like yours to take care of her as she gets well. Take care of yourself, too.

True Patriot, You got me there. Yep, I voted for Obama and that was truly not very smart of me. I'm paying allot more attention now. I suggest you change your name sir, there is no way you can be a true patriot when spewing such nonsense. You must be a John Kerry fan also. He said if you study hard you may end up in Iraq. I put the two of you in the same sinking boat.

By the way, I'm the son of a Marine Corps lifer who served in WWII, Korean War, and 3-tours in Vietnam. I also served one tour in Vietnam as an Army helicopter pilot. I lived my entire pre-adult life on military bases. I can't imagine what it must be like to serve in the greatest military in the world under the worst Commander-In-Chief in recent history. It takes much more to be a Patriot than sitting on your big ole butt talking trash about anybody that points out the failings of this country's current leadership. True Patriot? My okole!

Judging from the posts of the loony left on this site and from what Robert Fibbs had to say it looks like the left is actually going to use the "Bush did it" defense in an attempt to deflect from the fact that the Big O presidency is a complete flop.

No one's buying it this time.

Hey FR crew! How did the witch hunt go? You people really look stupid and have not offered either apology or even a story stating those 24,000 pages of e-mails turned up nothing.

Actually DP, the truth isn't that "Bush did it"...it's that 3 DECADES of Republican policy did it. Conservatives have a brilliant talking point to try to make that look like a petty argument by summarizing it as "Bush did it" but it simply isn't true and has never been stated that way. This started with Reagan and has continued since that time almost unabated with a steady drumbeat of Supply Side failure, deregulatory failure, stagnating middle class, and upward redistribution of wealth.

We've had a 30 year experiment with Conservative, Laissez-Faire economics. It failed miserably. It's time to throw it in the trash bin in the same way those same policies were tossed after causing the Great Depression.

Absolutely wrong. that is being kind. Do me (and everyone else) a favor by doing a little research before you post such nonsense.

Your post is just stupid, stupid, stupid. And please forgive me, I've had a few beers or else I would try and entertain your stupidity. But that doesn't change the facts.

.it's that 3 DECADES of Republican policy did it

Idiotic at best.

Since you're an abusive drunk I can wait until you sober up to present reasons to support your opinions. Meanwhile see if you can wrap your head around this;

In 1983 the wealthiest 1% held 33.8% of all wealth, by 2007 that had risen to 34.6%. In 1983 the bottom 80% held 18.7% of wealth, a number that dropped to only 15.0% by 2007. When wealth measured through housing equity is included the accumulation of wealth at the top is even more striking.

In addition;

Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007).

Furthermore the Conservative narrative about supposed "confiscatory taxation" levied against the wealthy is pure hokum;

Citizens for Tax Justice, a research group that's been studying tax issues from its offices in Washington since 1979, provides the information we need. When all taxes (not just income taxes) are taken into account, the lowest 20% of earners (who average about $12,400 per year), paid 16.0% of their income to taxes in 2009; and the next 20% (about $25,000/year), paid 20.5% in taxes. So if we only examine these first two steps, the tax system looks like it is going to be progressive.

And it keeps looking progressive as we move further up the ladder: the middle 20% (about $33,400/year) give 25.3% of their income to various forms of taxation, and the next 20% (about $66,000/year) pay 28.5%. So taxes are progressive for the bottom 80%. But if we break the top 20% down into smaller chunks, we find that progressivity starts to slow down, then it stops, and then it slips backwards for the top 1%.

Specifically, the next 10% (about $100,000/year) pay 30.2% of their income as taxes; the next 5% ($141,000/year) dole out 31.2% of their earnings for taxes; and the next 4% ($245,000/year) pay 31.6% to taxes. You'll note that the progressivity is slowing down. As for the top 1% -- those who take in $1.3 million per year on average -- they pay 30.8% of their income to taxes, which is a little less than what the 9% just below them pay, and only a tiny bit more than what the segment between the 80th and 90th percentile pays.

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

In 2008 the median income was actually LESS than it was in 1998, accelerating a trend that's been in place since the late 1970s. The Conservative war against the middle class has been VERY successful. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/a-decade-with-no-income-gain/

So hot stuff, any FACTS to back up your name-calling?

By all means, present your lunacy to the best of your ability. But at least, in your best, ill-informed, non-sensical way, try and stick to reality.

30 years of republican rule? You are an idiot. Lost in liberal la-la land. Does 1994 hold any significance in your dream world? Obviously not. Read a history book you 20-something know nothing.

All that crap you posted? Just blather. Fodder for the uninformed.

Doug...don't waste too much time or energy on John B. He is like a lot of other blind followers believing that Obama is the messiah.

Instead of the inept, inexperienced, uncredentialed media darling that he really is.

But what do you expect from a group of people that vote for who Oprah tells them to vote for?

1994, Doug? You mean the Republican landslide which brought Newt Gingrich to his position as Speaker of the House?

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to present the facts while proving you have none to back up your own view.

Final proof that there's no rebuttal always comes when Conservatives trot out the "messiah" line, a dog whistle term which is virtually meaningless to the rest of us but designed to frighten the evangelical right with visions of false prophets and the Antichrist.

Amen, Brother John B.

STTS,...

the evangelical right

That is hilarious.

I prefer Proverbs. I'm sure you don't know it because it is tied to the Bible and therefore antithematic to your position. But it is a work of literary genius full of wisdom.

"suffer not the fool"

One of my favorites.

Doug, I'm a deacon, elder, and current board member in my home congregation, part of a mainline Christian denomination. You don't know how to stop repeating Conservative lies and preferred narratives, do you?

Given the destructive legislation being pushed by Conservatives and the rapid rise in opposition to them I prefer Hosea 8:7--"For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind"

Oh, like you think the moderator is really going to ask them? I'm willing to bet there's a list of questions NOT to be asked.

My guess is that it will a transcript of the debate will read like today's Family Circus...

"Not Me!"

Patrick:

I too would love to see them ask that question. A show of hands is good enough.

Wonder if any of the cable stations will be showing the debate because it should be entertaining to watch each one try to out "far right, religious and anti-Obama" the other.

Jody - CNN is going to carry it beginning at 7:00 CST.

Make sure you have a GIANT bowl of *popcorn* & some Kool-Aid handy! ;o)

I am so tired of Beverly, Feisty, and Navy coordinating their internal alarm clocks with one of these articles. I want to re-iterate that the submittal of their tired old "War and Peace" length diatribes is about as sickening an example of a discussion filibuster as one could propose.

Here's the bottom line of the 2012 debate ...

1) Do you want more intrusion into your life by an expansive federal government? For me ... NO!

2) Do you want more growth in the federal government? For me ... NO!

3) Do you want more bailouts of un-affordable public sector union contract? For me ... NO!

4) Do you want an administration that will rule by bureaucracy that which they cannot achieve by ballot? For me ... NO!

5) Do you want a party that has to test the wind of surveys before they can make a moral decision? For me NO?

6) Do you want Obama-care? For me ... HELL NO!

7) Do you want a reduction in federal spending? For me ... HELL YES!

8) Do you want a federal executive that will use the NLRB to determine where you can build your business? For me ... an extra HELL NO!

In short ... the worst of the GOP is better than Obama!

Where's the jobs? Where's the peace? Where's the budget? Where's the leadership? Where's the reduction in debt?

Thank you Beverly, Feisty, and Navy for any negative comments to follow and, as usual, a collapsing of dissenting viewpoints within this thread.

There will be two great ideas distilled from the debates:

1 we need to cut taxes

2 we need to cut regulations

Let's play name that tune! I can name that tune in two notes.

Sorry to inform you but the anti american progressive party is the party of no! When the republicans got that name from the left . The anti american progressive party had a super majority and could have passed anything they wanted without any repbulican votes!!! It was the democrats that Obama could not bribe with the 1st stimulus that keep american form going into a hole it could never return!!

What do you have against jobs? or are you happy in just getting your "check" everymonth. It is the stupidity of the Obama worshipers that Obama and the rest of the anit american progressivies count on!! Education and true fact are the enemy of all socalist!!!

The worst of the GOP was shedding 750,000 jobs per month,...

Just a friendly reminder.

This article is for those of you who tried to make a big deal about the "zombie" protestors who accidentally strayed into the Special Olympics event in Madison last week, which Governor Walker instantly declared to be "outrageous." What a total hypocrite he is, and so are all of you, if you think that those protests were somehow worse than the grim reality that Walker is about to create for the disabled ....

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/health_med_fit/vital_signs/article_2a7fb376-92e4-11e0-b160-001cc4c03286.html

It's hard to compete for attention with zombies staging sit-ins and with protesters camped out in colorful tents all around Capitol Square, but if you happened to visit the statehouse last Thursday, you might have seen Ben and several other virtual young people standing sentry at the Martin Luther King entrance to the Capitol.

Wisconsin Families Forward, one of the new advocacy groups formed to protest the Walker administration's budget cuts, had originally planned to leave the cardboard cutouts standing around inside the Capitol where their unwavering gazes, it was hoped, might prick the consciences of GOP legislators. But the group's request to do that was denied. You apparently need a permit for what Capitol authorities consider a display in the rotunda.

It was just the latest effort by advocates for people with disabilities to get some attention for the hit Medicaid programs are taking in this administration. Only a few journalists showed up, better than a couple months ago when I was the sole reporter at another press event organized by some of these same advocates, but still nothing like the media buzz union rights marches and Walkerville has attracted. That lack of public attention has been a problem for people affected by cuts to the state's medical assistance programs from the moment Gov. Walker "dropped the bomb," as he put it while boasting on the phone about his proposals to a prankster he thought was David Koch ....

Health secretary Dennis Smith has announced that Family Care and other long-term support programs will be frozen starting July 1, the day Walker's controversial new budget is expected to kick in. Even before the caps were announced there have been long wait lists for the Family Care program. They will grow even longer now. Counties like Dane, which had been in line to adopt Family Care before 2013, have been left in limbo- -- and so has Ben.

So all of you right-wingers take your phony baloney outrage elsewhere. Unless you're REALLY willing to stand up for the disabled, those zombies EASILY have the moral highground over YOU.

Anna Molly:

Do you think Russ is more likely to run for Governor than for that up coming vacant Senate seat? Inquiring minds want to know.

On another side note, Russ Feingold visited the crowds in Walkerville last night and pledged to stand with them as long as it takes to put things back right. He was greeted with chants of "Governor Feingold." Run, Russ, run.

Yes! Yes! Yes! You are so lucky to have Feingold.

I'm guessing he will run in the recall election, if there is one. He seems to be getting very interested in the homefront again. He was a state legislator before he was a Senator. And at the moment, he's really the only Democrat with enough name recognition and standing to be able to do it, and he is the one who can capitalize best on the anti-Walker sentiment, as well as the fact that his replacement, Ron Johnson, has become virtually non-existent. I think the job was over Johnson's head, which Feingold can exploit.

If I were Feingold, anyway, that's what I would do, and if I lose that, then I would still look at the Senate seat. But if Feingold beats Walker, then it is entirely possible that a lesser-known congressman like Ron Kind or Tammy Baldwin would have a chance to win that Senate seat. Because, by then, the tide would have turned.

Amy ~ Big ditto to that.

So Molly,

Those protesters, dressed up like zombies, just "accidentally strayed" into a Special Olympics event that, just "accidentally" had Governor Walker present??

Nothing intentional on their part, right?? It was all accidental,.......RIGHT??

Only a few journalists showed up, better than a couple months ago when I was the sole reporter at another press event organized by some of these same advocates, but still nothing like the media buzz union rights marches and Walkerville has attracted.

Maybe only a few showed because the rest of the media were busy fishing in Alaska. You must understand the importance to trawl through all those Palin e-mails compared to some little protest in Wisconsin. I am sure that the same organizations will be as diligent and ask for the dump of all public emails written by the President.

Another fine post, Anna Molly. Appreciate the Wisconsin updates.

Russ Feingold would be an excellent Governor. No doubt a huge chunk of WI voters regret their 2010 vote against him because he was an excellent senator who marched to the drum of WI voters not ideological purity.

Edward --

Those protesters, dressed up like zombies, just "accidentally strayed" into a Special Olympics event that, just "accidentally" had Governor Walker present??

Nothing intentional on their part, right?? It was all accidental,.......RIGHT??

I'll give you points for persistence, Edward, but ZERO for integrity. I answered this question last Friday and even posted a link.

The protesters were at the Capitol to stage a "die-in" to protest cuts in student-related services. They happened to see the Special Olympics protest right in front of their noses and used the occasion to make a point. They were peaceful and respectful. Even the families of the Special Olympians were not upset by their appearance. The only one outraged was Walker.

Of course, you fail to mention the main point, as does Alan, which is the heartless action of the Walker administration in making deep -- and unnecessary -- cuts to social services programs that actually benefit the disabled, while making a big, phony display of pseudo-support by having the audacity of showing up at a Special Olympics event, KNOWING all the while that his budget would chop the heck out of services for the disabled.

Alan:

Maybe only a few showed because the rest of the media were busy fishing in Alaska. You must understand the importance to trawl through all those Palin e-mails compared to some little protest in Wisconsin. I am sure that the same organizations will be as diligent and ask for the dump of all public emails written by the President.

And maybe not. Maybe it's just because there really aren't any REAL media left anymore, now that corporatism has done its work.

Both of you should be ashamed of yourselves for pointing to the easy-target shiny objects rather than addressing the reality of what these republican blackhearts are REALLY doing in this state. Why don't you try making a real point, for a change?

Oh, I know. It's because a REAL point here isn't something you WANT to make, is it?

The REAL point is what you're here to deflect.

Although you don't deserve it, Edward, here's another link that describes the "zombie" event.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_94a2b5fa-a0bc-5d69-9097-55ff3de76569.html

Participants wore zombie makeup and red-streaked T-shirts stating “Students are as good as dead” and lay on the steps of the Capitol while a “eulogy” was read and other protestors, dressed in black, posed as “mourners,” Wolf said. The group then marched through the Capitol and later stood near a crowd outside where Gov. Scott Walker was addressing a group from Special Olympics Wisconsin.

Kelly Kloepping, vice-president of communications for Special Olympics Wisconsin, said the protesters were respectful and caused no disruption.

Now, until you have something legitimate to say on the subject of services for the disabled in Wisconsin, take your own phony (or dare we say FAUX News) outrage elsewhere.

Both of you should be ashamed of yourselves for pointing to the easy-target shiny objects rather than addressing the reality of what these republican blackhearts are REALLY doing in this state. Why don't you try making a real point, for a change?

You mean that Wisconsin is coming to the same conclusion as every other state, and the federal government, that the defined benefit plans agreed to by previous governors are not sustainable? That if you want to increase Medicade for Special Needs children the money has to come from somewhere because it doesn't grow on trees. How about this? The Democrats ran the Federal Government for two years, and using reconciliation only needed 51 votes in the Senate, so there was no chance to filibuster. Why did they not set out their priorities and raise revenues to meet these priorities?

When you set yourself up as a shiny object, as Palin did in Alaska and Walker has done in Wisconsin, then you can expect to have the attention they have received. You don't get to choose what attention you do receive.

When you set yourself up as a shiny object, as Palin did in Alaska and Walker has done in Wisconsin, then you can expect to have the attention they have received. You don't get to choose what attention you do receive.

At a time that news organizations are cutting bureaus and reporters please tell me the justification for this level of scrutiny? Are you saying she is such a Machiavellian genius that she can influence major news organization to devote this level resource to find out what? I mean really what was the overriding journalist imperative that demanded that teams of reporters fly to Alaska? Even Ted Stevens, who was a major corruption story, did not get this level of attention. It really is an embarrassment for the major news organizations involved.

Anna Molly,

First you state that these protesters dressed like "zombies" "accidentally strayed" into the special olympics event. (Your post #3.1 ) Then you state that they actually "used the occasion to make a point" (Your post #3.8)

So which is it really Anna??? Did these Wisconsin zombies accidentally stray into the Special olympics event?? Or did they knowingly enter the event to "use the occasion to make a point"???

You can try to twist your words and backtrack all you like. Seems like you will do anything to defend these freaks. Typical liberal waffling.

Alan:

That if you want to increase Medicade for Special Needs children the money has to come from somewhere because it doesn't grow on trees.

Alan, please try to pay attention. We're not talking about increases here. What we're REALLY talking about here is draconian cuts at the same time that Walker is handing out NEW tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy like penny candy. The irony, of course, being that Wisconsin's revenue problem is not nearly so bad as Walker has tried to paint it, and STILL he refuses to back off on these cuts and the other deep cuts -- almost a billion dollars -- that he is proposing in education.

You can be for that if you want, but at least 'fess up to it honestly for a change, instead of throwing up smoke. You're for the rich at the expense of the poor and the disabled, and if asked whether you are willing to sacrifice a dime for others, the answer is clearly NO. Just say so.

Edward --

Now it's turn for YOU to pay attention. I'm not waffling. The "point" that the protesters were no doubt trying to make was that Walker pretends he's FOR the disabled, while at the same time he is gutting programs intended to help them.

The protesters were peaceful, silent, and according to Special Olympics officials, there was no disruption. It was a public event on public property. They had a right to be there, even though their original intention in being at the Capitol was to protest other cuts that Walker is making. Walker is the one who really had no right to be there because, as I said before, he's nothing but a phony, and he doesn't support the disabled AT ALL. His appearance there, and his phony outrage, was nothing more than a publicity seeker engaging in grandstanding. Only conservative news outlets were impressed.

If you have a point to make about Walker's budget cuts that will negatively impact the disabled, then make it. I suspect not, however,

Alan, please try to pay attention. We're not talking about increases here. What we're REALLY talking about here is draconian cuts at the same time that Walker is handing out NEW tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy like penny candy. The irony, of course, being that Wisconsin's revenue problem is not nearly so bad as Walker has tried to paint it, and STILL he refuses to back off on these cuts and the other deep cuts -- almost a billion dollars -- that he is proposing in education.

www.factcheck.org/2011/03/walkers-tax-cuts/

Seems like its another red herring. The tax breaks cannot affect this years deficit because they don't kick until 2012. However, lets keep our eye on the ball here. How do you pay for teachers at the current rate of wages and benefits without a tax increase? Seems in NY, Maryland, Delaware and California Democratic governors have come to the same conclusion as Walker. It is not sustainable. I've an idea, why don't you come up with the cost of maintaining the current education spending and maintaining/increasing medicade to levels that you think are appropriate and then come up with the revenue plan that will pay for it. You see this is why Democrats have a problem. They will tell voters the true cost of their wish list before an election. They focus on the goodies and ignore the bill. This is also why the Republicans from 2002 - 2006 were so lousy. They spent like Democrats and taxed like Republicans. Both parties should prioritize, tell us what it will cost and that point we can cast our ballot.

Actually, Alan -- Walker's cuts are not necessary in this biennium, either, during which Walker's predecessor, Jim Doyle, took measures to reduce costs and actually to produce a small surplus. But that isn't stopping him from making them.

How do you pay for teachers at the current rate of wages and benefits without a tax increase?

Don't look at me. I never said we don't need a tax increase. That was YOU, remember? There is no law against tax increases, Alan, except in your mind. On their road to convincing everyone else, Republicans actually seem to have convinced themselves that tax cuts can NEVER be mentioned in polite conversation.

This is also why the Republicans from 2002 - 2006 were so lousy. They spent like Democrats and taxed like Republicans

True enough. I love the way you keep handing this stuff to me. What they should have done is both spend and tax like Democrats. As I mentioned above, I heard yesterday that all the periods of sustained growth in the last century came on the heels of tax increases, no doubt coupled by good old-fashioned Democratic spending, which would have had its intended effect of stimulating the economy.

The point being, of course, that you have just outlined why Republicans failed, but without admitting that there might be more than one solution to the problem. I'm not saying that spending cuts can't be made. Surely they can, starting with defense, oil company taxbreaks, subsidies for the Chamber of Commerce, and services for "red" states -- and also for people like you -- who disavow the need for federal government services. But cuts alone are not the answer, and until Republicans get off the dime and admit that, we will continue to spiral down the same path.

Just don't make the disabled, the elderly, and the poor pay for YOUR party's bad decisions.

By the way, I like MY herring pickled. You?

Anna Molly,

How many times are you going to dodge my question??

It's really simple, even for someone like you. Read my question again on my post# 3.13.

THEN ANSWER THE QUESTION. Quit waffling like a dumb Liberal Anna.

@AM

My party did not fail as I have no party. Yes I think the Republicans failed in their time in power 2002 - 2006. I also think the Democrats failed from 2006 - 2010. I am not against tax increases as I have consistently said the Bush tax rates have been a fiscal disaster; one that the Obama administration has perpetrated. Where I am against tax increases is where they are used to sustain spending and not used to decrease the deficit or debt in the case of the Federal government.

As I said at the state level both parties have failed because the current level of deferred benefits for state workers are not sustainable. You don't have to believe me or think that this is a ploy to cut state workers benefits to fund some right wing ideology. Look at the finances of San Francisco where retired city workers are now costing as much as current operational needs. Basically taxpayers are being asked to fund two education departments. two police departments etc, and it will only get worse as more retirees hit the system and live longer. I keep asking here, to anyone, how you fund such as system and no one has attempted an answer. The public sector, unfortunately for them, has to move to defined contributions just like the rest of us. We can longer have politicians promise benefits in the future that they are not responsible for funding. The same goes for the federal government. A check has to be put on their borrowing as they are just creating future liabilities for which they are not responsible.

BTW from the same factcheck link

"It’s true, however, that they will add $117.2 million to the projected $3.6 billion budget gap in the next two-year budget cycle, which begins July 1, 2011"

The difference between Gov Walker and the people in the special Olympics is honesty. Those people many with Downes syndrome don't lie, they don't even tell "white lies", even in a crowded elevator they will flat out tell you "I farted". They are the most honest people I have ever met, they seem incapable of looking you in the eye and lying about anything. Gov Walker has no qualms about lying none whatsoever.

Nice job, Anna Molly. Every time Edward and Alan parrot one of Walker's false talking points you have the answer. Every time you bring the real facts they try to pivot to a phony nontroversy filled with false outrage over a peaceful protest--something that's the right of EVERY American.

The problem is her facts are not facts but her interpetation and wanting for her facts to be true. Liberalism can not live if truth is involved!!!

as for taxing you really believe that if the 50% that do pay some taxes pay more then the government will spend it better than they would? Does this create any real jobs with growth and profits to expand and create more jobs! The answer is no socalism has failed everywhere it has been tried!!! Why do you think everybody wants to come to the US? for more failed socalism

Edward:

So which is it really Anna??? Did these Wisconsin zombies accidentally stray into the Special olympics event?? Or did they knowingly enter the event to "use the occasion to make a point"???

Actually, it's both, Edward. If you read the article, which I counted on you to do, you would have learned that they really did accidentally find themselves at the Capitol, dressed in zombie suits, at the same time as the Special Olympics event. After engaging in their own protest, they then seized upon the opportunity to make a point at the Special Olympics event, by engaging in silent, peaceful protest, which in reality outraged no one except the phony, empty-suit governor, and which, as John B points out above, is "the right of EVERY American."

Forrest is right about who's lying in this deal and who's not.

Sorry if you think I'm obtuse, Edward. It's not the first time someone has thought that, and I'm virtually certain it won't be the last. Thanks for making me clarify.

shawn:

The problem is her facts are not facts but her interpetation and wanting for her facts to be true. Liberalism can not live if truth is involved!!!

And your facts are ... where? And your truth is ... where?

But reality is that I don't have to want my facts to be true. I just have to observe yours in action. If we're not going to Hades in a handbasket as a result of 30 years of Republicanism, briefly interrupted by 8 years of quasi-Republicanism under Bill Clinton, then why is everything such a mess?

Anna Molly, in an attempt to be objective you have so many of the facts wrong which should be corrected before opinionated positions are advocated. You should start with the premise and understanding that its never a zero sum game. If you pull from one side it moves the other.

First, as to the evil corporations you are constantly attacking with your venom and opinions as to how they make their money off the backs of the poor worker. There are always bad CEOs just like there are always bad lazy incompetent workers but both are the exception and pointing out the small minority to make generalizations about the whole isnt productive. But the real point is that corporations are owned by people called shareholders. Small companies may be owned by individuals or families and as they get bigger maybe a larger number of partners until you get to public companies which again are owned eventually at the top level by people. Its true that corporations own some, banks, investment houses and mutual funds but at the top its people. The vast majority of these companies are owned by you and I via union pension funds, 401(k) accounts, personal investments, universities etc. The value of these companies and their investments are based on the bottom line profit. So everytime you advocate that these evil companies (the vast vast majority of which are ethical, well run, and providing employment for most of us) pay more tax, pay their workers more, pay more health care etc, you are reducing the value of these companies which in turn reduces the retirement balances of you and I. Its reducing the money set aside for the workers pension plans, its increasing the cost of tuition and university endowments get smaller, its reducing the personal wealth and savings of all of us. That well could be what you are advocating which is fine, but if so make it more clear that you want all of us to pay a collective fine or tax and give up some of our wealth and reduce the retirement benefits of the union workers in order to reduce the profits of corporations for whatever purpose you are advocating.

Second, in terms of your health care comments, insurance company profits are not 20-40%. Plus, you obviously dont understand how health care costs work. First insurance companies earn revenue of approximately 30% from their insurance contracts in which they then must pay expenses. From that, most earn about 7-10 cents on every dollar as profit. Next, these insurance companies are corporations owned by all of us (see point 1 above) so when you reduce their profit you are just taxing all of us. Finally, insurance companies are not the villians in that almost all cases currently (not necessarily the past under an HMO structure), they are just administering the health care plans designed or chosen by the company that is buying. The cost of this plan is either 1)self funded or 2) experience rated. In either case, if you look at a 5 year period, the cost of that plan is going to be the actual out of pocket health care costs of their employees. I am not providing any editorial or opinion on any type of expense solution to our health care mess, all I can say is that Obamacare doesnt address the expense side of the equation but truly is designed to eventually push us all into a single payer system as it will be too costly under the bill for almost all corporations to provide health care. They will prefer to pay the fine. Thus some sort of rationing of care is a 100% certainty and it will create a system in which the wealthy that can self fund their health care will get the best care.

Finally, your understanding the GM and Chrysler takeover is flawed. You can advocate and think it was a good thing but your understanding of it is just plain wrong. The government chose a winner which was the unions when they structured it the way they did. Its just an incorrect assumption that the government saved all those jobs. They definitely saved union jobs and the rich unfunded pensions but GM and Chrysler would not have disappeared. If either had filed bankruptcy and the typical path had been followed, each would have emerged as viable companies with reduced liabilities which would have allowed them to continue to employ and keep the existing companies intact. This is proven by the fact that they are both doing well today with reduced liabilities. The difference is that the lenders would have become the shareholders instead of the unions. Obama clearly wanted the unions to come out unscathed and he wiped out the shareholders and most of the lender's investment in these companies. The taxpayers will carry the cost of this approach as he allowed the tax losses from these companies to be carried over to avoid them having to pay billions in future taxes and he retained the high cost union labor contracts which over time will burden the companies and continue to ensure that their business model is not competitive with the world's other car companies. At some point both of these corporations will leverage up again and be facing bankruptcy in a future economic cyclical downturn.

Its ok to have political opinionated positions but lets use a basic understanding of how economics works before we start the accusations

So everytime you advocate that these evil companies (the vast vast majority of which are ethical, well run, and providing employment for most of us) pay more tax, pay their workers more, pay more health care etc, you are reducing the value of these companies which in turn reduces the retirement balances of you and I.

Ah, the tiny bit of truth required to give legitimacy to a much larger distortion. Yes, all of us who have money in a 401k or pension plan have money in the stock market. Do you know how much? The bottom 80% of Americans owned just 8.9% of all stocks as of 2007...and falling. Among that same group over half of Americans owned less than $10,000 in stocks. Sorry, it's an unconvincing argument that policies which help the middle class EVERY YEAR should be avoided because their stocks might be worth a few hundred less at retirement. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

As far as the death spiral which private, employer-provided insurance finds itself in that's been going on for several decades...Affordable Care didn't create that situation. Here's how it works--Insurance companies jack up their rates at 3-5 times the inflation rate to satisfy Wall Street's demand for an ever-improving Medical Loss Ratio (gross profit margin). A certain number of employers drop insurance. Their employees still get emergency care, in fact much more expensive care because they no longer recieve routine care. The rates continue to go up at 2-5 times the inflation rate. More employers drop their insurance. The whole spiral just turns faster and faster until the entire system implodes. It's inevitable...and has nothing to do with President Obama or the Democrats.

As far as the GM and Chrysler rescue you're rewriting history. Those companies had already been to the private market for refinancing...and found none. The alternative to government rescue was NOT a conventional Chapter 11, it was liquidation...permanent loss of the majority of all US automobile manufacturing, as well as many of the parts suppliers that Ford would need to remain viable.

There's your basic economic facts. You don't have to like them but that's how it is.

That is a very well stated OPINION Kirk, you predict the future, and state it as fact, get serious.

Forest was that a reply? Unfortunately what I said wasnt opinion as my job involves all three issues that I "opined" on. But if you disagree prove me wrong. As for John, sorry but you are incorrect. You quote statistics regarding personal ownership of stocks and I know you want so desperately to be right but your not. If you aggregated all the pensions (yes middle class pension funds) in the US, you would find that they own a huge percentage of stocks. I know it destroys your argument but its true. You have to look beyond the individual owner or via 401(k) accounts. University endowments also own a significant slug. But even eliminating public ownership, the evil corporation argument still doesnt work because the same principles about value and impact on profits applies to private ownership and forcing corporations to pay for the political or societal programs all of you espouse is really just a tax on the customers and individuals who buy or own these companies. There is no such thing as making these evil corporations pay. By the way, all I said was that you should just come clean and admit that you are advocating that you want the majority to pay for the social benefit you are advocating I didnt say that was a bad thing.

On health care you are just plain wrong as I did this for 10 years and you just dont know what you are talking about. Health care costs are paid aggregated and paid for by the employees and employer. When you pay your insurance premiums to your employer, you arent actually paying any money to an insurance company. Your money along with your co pays, out of pockets etc are really just paying for a certain percentage of the overall costs of health care for the employees of your company and your employer is paying the rest. As health care costs rise (by the way generally 13% of your employees incur over 85% of the costs of your employers health care), then your premiums rise to pay for the costs. Insurance companies just administer (yes for a 7% profit) the insurance benefits YOUR EMPLOYER OR STATE LAW chooses to provide. Obamacare will do nothing to reduce these costs and in fact will likely increase and ration care. Again maybe thats what you want I never said thats bad.

As for GM and Chrysler, again your wrong. You are correct that at that particular point at the beginning of 09, it appeared that debtor in possession financing would have been difficult to find but it would have happened. The entire collapse of the industry you claim is totally ludicrous as all the government did was choose a winner in the new ownership claims, ignore established bankruptcy law by not allowing a renegotiation of labor contracts and choose that the unions would win and reduce GM's liabilities. GM was going to make an operating profit it just couldnt pay its interest payments. Clearly, GM was a viable company because nothing has changed since it almost failed except it eliminated its debt payments. If established bankruptcy law had been used, a new GM would have emerged with lower leverage, a new management team, reduced labor contracts and the lenders would have been the shareholders. A better business model might have emerged giving GM the chance to be successful long term rather than until the next economic cycilical downturn when the cost of its labor contracts will make it uncompetitive with the market

Kirk, did you read my link? Apparently not. If you can prove any of what you've said feel free to do so. Otherwise you're just talking.

As for your description of the insurance market you're talking about large employers who are self insured.

Talking down to us isn't going to shut us up. You'll find a group of Liberals here who know just about anything you want to discuss. Condescension will be seen as a challenge.

Dont give me that condescension crap as I have not name called or even said whether I was liberal or conservative and because I know more about a subject than you doesnt mean I am talking down to you. I am sure there are plenty of topics you know more than me. You obviously havent heard of experience rating and all health care is based on that regardless of self insurance. You act like any expense is a zero sum game. If the government imposes some sort of mandatory payment on a corporation, you seem to think the company just takes it out of its pocket and gives it to the government without pause to consider the impact on the corporation. The payment either is passed on to the corporations customers or it reduces the value of the corporations in which the vast majority are owned by individuals including private or public. Thats all I was pointing out which needs to be understood by everyone who constantly is whining about corporations not paying their taxes. Its kind of silly issue. I dont have statistics on pension funds only based on institutional owners which you obviously know but dont want to discuss. Institutional owners are pension funds, mutual funds, endownments etc which you dont want to include as an individual indirect owner.

I dont want to shut up you liberals. In fact, I wish terms of liberal versus conservative were just eliminated and we sat down and said can we do whats in the best interest of all of us. Instead you would prefer to label someone and not listen to solutions that dont fit your preconceived notion of liberal versus conservative. You want to create class warfare without any thought of the consquences and brand anyone that makes money as evil. Is Albert Pujols evil for making as much money as the market will pay for his services? Should he then pay 60% of it back to the government because he an evil rich person that we want to equal the playing field over? There are a ton of republican politicians I think are horrendous and evil just like there are a ton of democrats that are evil and horrendous. Lets discuss issues rather than political labels that get us no where.

You can answer my so called challenge all you want but I dont remember ever labeling you or being condescending.

Telling us all that you know the subject better than the rest of us isn't condescending?

Speaking of which you've yet to back up any of what you've said, or even disprove my link showing that stock ownership among the middle class is minimal. Instead you just insist you know better.

That's condescension.

You obviously dont like actually having a debate over the merits of anything as you would rather get in a circle jerk with people who think exactly the same way you do or its more fun to name call because no condescension is not the same as knowing a subject better than the rest of you. Its called knowledge and experience. Condescension means I think I am better because of it and at no time did I think that. I did back it up. Do you have a pension plan? I do from a retailer I worked at many years ago. This pension plan owns shares that would be listed as an institutional owner. I can tell you 99% of the beneficiaries of this pension plan are middle class. Is there some aspect of this argument that you dont get? Your link discusses individual owners not indirect owners through institutions. Stop acting like I didnt respond.

I also replied to both health care and auto bailout which you convienently dropped because you cant win those debates and by the way you shouldnt win because they dont have to be political. They are just starting points for what are we going to do going forward. Quit demonizing the wealthy and making heros out of everyone else. You like to point to a few people who got wealthy in your version of the wrong way like inheritance or CEO pay. Behaviorial choices make up the reasons why people end up in certain economic situations. People choose to be teachers lawyers open up a subway franchise etc. You dont want to debate the merits

Not at all, Kirk.

Anna Molly stated a position and you replied that you know more than she does.

Forrest responded and you told him you know more than he does.

I responded to your post and you replied that you know more than I do.

You've provided no evidence to back up your opinions, and refuse to address evidence presented by others. You've made all sorts of elaborations about what the rest of us think just because it fits the story you wish to tell. You've repeatedly declared yourself correct based on nothing except your own statements that you know more than everyone else.

We have no reason to believe your "knowledge and experience" are actually superior to what the rest of us have achieved, you just state it as fact.

I've tried to engage you in conversation, you prefer to treat this place as a lecture hall. You are not a professor, you're a blowhard. Goodbye.

Why am I a blowhard because my set of facts disagrees with yours? Again, you go calling people names for no other reason than someone didnt agree with you. Go back through all my posts and tell me one time I called someone a name. Go back and find one instance when I told "condescended". Anna Molly did state a position and I replied that I know more than she because I did on those particular topics. If you notice I didnt respond to any post in which you guys are just name calling or hating on people who dont look like you. I didnt try and debate Navy on all the stuff he spews because quite honestly I might have a view or a hunch he could be wrong on something but I didnt actually know it. So I didnt respond. On these topics I do know what I am talking about so I responded. Forest didnt say anything and had no reply he just didnt like the message. I responded to your post and because I believe I know more than you on these particular topics I said so. I dont remember be condescending. No body had presented any evidence of the contrary on any of these topics except your attempt on the middle class not owning any shares and I responded to your reply with why I view your wrong and you havent even attempted to prove me wrong on the other topics.

I dont have any story to tell and you are picking a fight because my facts dont fit your convienent version of some truth you want to espouse. That doesnt make me a blowhard, wrong or superior as you say.

In the interest of saving time, why dont we take one small topic, a subsection of the topic and we can discuss why I am wrong. Give me your "facts" opinion or whatever you want to call it and explain to me why corporations should pay more tax (dont forget this means all just not GE so it would include the guy that owns the Baskin Robbins down the street).

Can I also ask you if you believe the conclusion that there is a widening of the income gap since 1982 as reported on the tax returns since that period which then means that the wealthy as taken a disproportionate share of the income during that same time period?

I think Anthony Weiner should stay in office at least till 2012. He is the poster boy for all that is wrong with the Democratic party. He will make great sport for those who compose attack ads for the campaigns, and he is great material for the late-night comedy talk shows.

In short, he's a little one-man political treasure chest. Can't let this sort of opportunity go to waste.

Well, Edward, obviously you would rather discuss scandal than serious problems or unethical practices going on under the radar--this post was NOT about Anthony Weiner. Care to add your thoughts to the topic of "Offshore in Utah".

Jody, that's the ugly reality of "economic development" as the game has been played for the last 30 years. Nothing is actually being "developed" except tax cuts for the wealthy and for business. Businesses that plan on building a facility farm it out to all the finalists in order to see what locality will give the biggest bribe to bring employment. I was on a team to choose a new facility once. Our task was to choose 3 good possibilities, then let upper management extort money from local and state governments to make the final choice.

It's a disgusting practice, one that does NOTHING except destroy the ability of government to provide needed services.

As well as the way Republicans covered for Vitter...and Craig...and Sanford...and....

The looney tunes on the left ....

Dear Bill: Must you always poison the well before you make a point? Aren't your points strong enough to stand on their own?

By the way, as I understood what I heard on the TV yesterday, the periods of sub-par growth that you're talking about tend to be the low-tax periods, like this one. Periods of growth of five percent or more usually follow the raising of taxes.

Or do you have better information, and why do I doubt it?

Bill, I don't see any PROOF that regulation is hurting the economy, only an ideologically sure belief that it must be so. Considering the FACT that lax regulation allowed the economy to blow an enormous bubble that burst into the 2007 recession there's precious little credibility for Conservatives just saying it must be so.

AM: By the way, as I understood what I heard on the TV yesterday, the periods of sub-par growth that you're talking about tend to be the low-tax periods, like this one

If you can't believe the TV, who can you believe?

AM: Or do you have better information

The TV trumps all. Well, except for the Internet.

The USofA: Taxing its way to prosperity.

Bill, Fairfax: The looney tunes on the left turn their nose up at those who point out the deleterious effects on the economy of overzealous regulation.

And it seems to be random regulation, as in that for ObamaCare, many companies/corporations can get waivers from it. There doesn't seem to be a known process for doing so, but what ever process there is appears to favor unions, and businesses in Nancy Pelosi's district.

No Anna Molly Bill just likes to pick and choose what fits his ideology, and ignore the true facts.

Dear Bill: Must you always poison the well before you make a point?

Too funny, ever check out the viscious names some on your side call me? But I will take your point to heart and rewrite thusly:

The looney tunes on the left -- with the singular exception of the talented and prolific purveyor of leftist thought called Anna Molley...

Hope that helps.

the FACT that lax regulation allowed the economy to blow an enormous bubble that burst into the 2007

Is that so? Now, would the "fact" you're referring to include the national housing policies pushed predominantly by the Dems that made it easier and easier for folks to buy homes? Policies like those pursued by Andrew Cuomo at HUD to increase the number of low and moderate income folks who could buy homes -- even if they couldn't afford them? Policies like that from Cuomo that put Fannie and Freddie on the path to insolvency as they specifically aided and abetted the growth of the bubble by lowering their standards and buying questionable loans? None of that was an issue of allegedly lax regulation, it was an issue of misguided national housing policy -- a policy most warmly embraced by the looney tunes on the left who just can't abide by the notion that just maybe it would be wise for folks to be able to actually afford the homes they want to buy.

Let's try these facts:

Using Okun's Misery Index, ( unemployment plus inflation), we find that, at the start of Bush's presidency in 2001, said Misery Index stood at 7.93. At the end of Bush's presidency- 2008- the !misery Index stood at 7.49- it actually went down, due to lower inflation.

When Obama assumed office in 2009, the Misery Index stood at 7.73. As of April, 2011, it was 12.16. That is, Twelve point one six- and has gone up with May's unemployment/ inflation numbers.

No wonder he is having so much trouble raising money.

Bill Fairfax VA:

The looney tunes on the left turn their nose up at those who point out the deleterious effects on the economy of overzealous regulation. But arguably, one reason the Obama recovery has been sub-par is because of the impact of onerous regulation on business.

Well, I'm glad to know that I'm not a looney tune of the left, since I will readily acknowledge that overzealous regulation can be bad for the economy, just as overly lax regulation can be bad, as proved by the disastrous effects of Bush's lax regulatory policies that are still ricocheting through the US economy. Maybe it's arguable that "onerous" regulations are the cause of the slow recovery. It's too bad that you're not arguing it, you're just saying it.

No Jo, I was very happy to hear that your little princess is doing well.

Bill, you must have "short-term" memory loss (cut down on those illicit drugs you must be taking)! In a nut shell: there was an enormous surplus when Clinton left office, and after Bush and his brother stole the election from Gore, Bush jr. succeeded in wasting all that surplus and putting America in position to incur huge deficits from an illegal war in Iraq based on false allegations regarding alleged "weapons of mass destruction" that were supposedly hidden by Saddam Hussein in the Iraqi desert. Obama had nothing or very little to do with this Repub Bush fiasco! He's just trying his best to clean up the f-----g mess!

Come 2014, when the federal government steps in to play a larger role in financing the state Medicaid programs (they already pay for about half of the costs), it will be illegal for these people to be denied care.

I think that provision is part of the Affordable Care Act. If the Repubs succeed in getting the Roberts Supreme Corporate Court to overturn the law, then those people may have to wait a lot longer than three years. But on the plus side, dying from a treatable disease rather than depending on government for health insurance builds character.

Groucho, Perhaps you could also tell us how much property tax the residents of N.J. pay.

Outstanding post, Groucho! $6,000/yr won't even buy family insurance coverage. I have great respect for thoughtful Conservatives, but radicals like Christie would just abandon Americans in need.

lisa s-1749992..

There is no standard rate used to calculate property taxes in NJ. It's based upon assessed value which is determined on a municipality by municipality basis. My son lives in a townhouse in NJ valued at about $325,000. He pays $7,300 in property taxes. The "richer" communities can pay taxes in excess of $25,000 to $30,000 or more. Property taxes in NJ are some of the highest in the nation and going up as State funding to counties decreased, property taxes went up to cover the shortfall.

Groucho, I know how high they are I live here.

Terrific post, Groucho Marx. One of the problems with continuing to reduce the income taxes for people and business is that it merely shoves the taxes elsewhere because most people want education, good roads, safe bridges, fire and police. While lower personal and corporate income tax rates sounds great, they merely are transferred to sales taxes, local option sales taxes, property taxes. Both state and federal governments needs to overhaul their tax codes and stop forcing the burden on to municipalities.

Wow Groucho! Outstanding post. And frightening. And disheartening.

It's a good thing that GROTESQUELY OBESE CHRISTY has excellent health care (paid by the people). If he had to get medical insurance on his own he would surely be turned down due to Type II Diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol etc...That BIG FAT BULLY needs to live in the REAL WORLD!!! He took a helicopter to two of his sons baseball games and had a limo drive him the extra 1oo yards to the ball field. That big fat fatty would do himself and the taxpayers a favor by walking and shedding some of that weight! Christy, get a clue big-fella!!!

Do as I say not as I do doesn't fly anymore...and neither should you!!!

key2joy

BIG FAT BULLY needs to live in the REAL WORLD!!! He took a helicopter to two of his sons baseball games and had a limo drive him the extra 1oo yards to the ball field

That big fat fatty would do himself and the taxpayers a favor by walking and shedding some of that weight! Christy, get a clue big-fella!!!

He won't be able to do that until he puts the Krispy Kreme donuts down.

That's a racist remark. Perhaps if you took off your white hood, you'd be able to see more clearly.

xxx

Sure swampfox, happy to help;

For Republicans in general, this is simply assumed to be true. Indeed, the standard conservative line is that the stimulus actually hurt the economy.

The evidence to the contrary is so overwhelming, the debate is over.

The $800 billion U.S. stimulus package has had a slightly bigger effect on the U.S. economy than was projected when it was passed more than a year ago, the Congressional Budget Office estimated Tuesday.

Through the first quarter of 2010, the stimulus boosted employment by an estimated 1.3 million to 2.8 million jobs, about a quarter or half million more than projected. Gross domestic product was 1.7 to 4.1 percentage points higher than it would have been without the stimulus, the nonpartisan budget office said.

Similarly, the unemployment would be up to 1.5 percentage points higher in the absence of the stimulus, according to the non-partisan CBO.

Looking ahead, the CBO projects that as many as "3.7 million American jobs could be attributed to the Recovery Act by the end of the September."

There's a word to describe a recovery effort like this: success.

Facing the greatest economic crisis in generations, the nation had two choices early last year: the Democratic stimulus or the Republicans' proposed five-year spending freeze. We're all very fortunate the latter was in the minority.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_05/023981.php

Don't ever forget, this is from a guy that takes a Limousine from the infield to the hot-dog stand.

John B: Excellent reporting. Oftentimes we learn more about what is going on in other parts of the country from people like yourself and Anna Molly. Stay safe and dry my friend.

John,

I hope you and your family come out unscathed by the flooding as well as the misfortune of Republican governance.

Thanks, folks. Earthen levees covered with sod are normally a great solution--reasonably inexpensive and highly reliable. This is just an extraordinary situation.

I was surprised to find this trip to be such a great illustration of the good that can come from government. Much of this is stuff that can ONLY come from government, because there's no way to make a profit, or the profit would be highly unreliable.

Houston!

John,

I hope you and your family come out unscathed by the flooding as well as the misfortune of Republican governance.

So do I

John, Good luck to your family.

Must not be bad.the pundits have not mentioned it.

Seems like the Democrats are desperately searching for any wedge issue that will serve to deflect the blame from Obama.

Obama doesn't have the luxury of being the unknown young man from Illinois who broad casted so much promise. No,....now we all have his number. His rhetoric sounds especially hollow. Smart people have learned how to listen to his speeches for their actual content. Very little of that.

I know this Christmas will be especially bleak for millions and millions of families. That would be a great time to have a TV special showing Obama and his wife having a splendid time at parties and exotic vacations all over the world. Air Force One, Obama's personal taxi. Maybe throw a few pics of Weiner in for taste??

It will be less bleak then if the republicans win.

alwaysfaithfull

I believe "tanking" would best describe the last two years of George Bush's term, with a final approval rate at 22%, according to some polls.

President Obama is at or right below 50%. Not exactly tank-level, and better than Reagan's 35% at this point in his first term.

Thanks for bringing it up, alwaysfaithfull. Just to satisfy your curiosity the approval rating of President Obama is higher than it was at this time last year and higher than presidents Reagan or Clinton at this point in their administrations. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx

Why are Republicans constantly whining about the President's travels? A part of his job is to see and be seen. A part of his job is to meet with people throughout the country and the world.

Of course, if he were closeted away in Washington, the Republicans would still complain.

So we will just take this as the Republicans being against Obama, no matter what. If Obama is for it, it must be wrong and the Repbulicans are therefore against it.

Why would they vote republican and make the situation worse?

One owns an insurance agency in a small town, one sells pharmacuticals, one is an archeitect designs high end houses and one owns a small photography business. I think they've just listened to Obama's rhetoric/war on businesses and people making $250k+ and have heard enough to know that policy is holding back the country.....

UAW: And just who would they vote for? Would they really vote for any of the Repub "candidates"...doubt it. Voters will re-elect President Obama because the Repubs have offered nothing in candidates or ideas, they have not improved the economy or increased jobs.

You keep on thinking that! Im sure Mr Obama isnt thinking that, or he would be relaxing instead of flying all over in damage control mode!

Drag, They've all got jobs, the ones that have a mortgage are paying it. I'm not sure they are really looking for any politician to "Do Anything" for them. It's nice to have kids who are willing to look after themselves.....

UAW. All my children have jobs and are buying their own homes. I am not sure they, or your children would have jobs, if Obama had not saved the economy.

You do realize UAW if the GOP/TP were in control, unless your kids are billionaires they wouldn't be able to look after themselves, they would have to do what corporate America tells them to do. But it's obvious you do not understand.

Mo, Not as many people are buying the "Hate Corporate America" message anymore. Obviously we can't all work for the government or live off government entitlements. I think alot of people realize this country is great because of private businesses not inspite of them. Pat, I think you probably taught your kids right and they would be employed and paying thier bills on time regardless of who is in the White House. But "if" Obama saved the economy let's elect some one else who can work with the private sector to put the 10% who can't seem to find a job back to work. I just don't think Obama has any credibility with those people after the 2.5 years of anti-business rhetoric.

Please the wealth re-distribution thing is so old and so wrong, peddle that baloney at the meat market, there is no evidence to support your theory whatsoever. In fact all the evidence is to the contrary, by every measure the top 2% have been gaining wealth at an astounding rate at the expense of the other 98%. Every study, every measure, shows that there is most definitely a redistribution of wealth taking place but it is upwards, poor and middle class kicking up their hard earned money to the wealthiest. The facts are the facts UAWplease, show some proof that money is being taken from the rich and re-distributed to the poor. You can't because it is not true. Fact: middle class and poor people lost wealth, extremely rich people gained wealth at an ever increasing rate. Fact: republican governors are lowering wages of lower middle class workers to pay for tax cuts only the wealthy can take advantage of, so please stop lying or just state that junk as your opinion but there has not been any economic data to support your silly claims in well over 20 years.

other than on the job training as potus what are obamas leadership qualifications? What senate commitees did the jr senator from illinois lead? What executive positions did he hold? What businesses did he create?

Everyone starts somewhere.

It will take some pretty fancy debating skills to make the load they are going to spew sound believable. Besides a half dozen or so people calling the POTUS the devil is not a debate.

Here is a synopsis of tonight's debate: Obama is going to destroy the universe if we don't stop him. We need to cut taxes and regulations. Vote for me I have the exact same plan every Republican has had since 1982, it has never worked for you yet but I am certainly willing to give it another try.

american, What Forrest Gump said. Later.

Where are the republican leaders and pundits calling for Vitter to resign?

The media chooses to go after shiny objects like Weiner's scandal or Sarah Palin and then wonders why some of us are cynical about the media. Gregory could have said---we aren't going to discuss Anthony Weiner because everything that could be said about that situation has been said, let's focus on the very real problems facing our country and how your parties propose to solve them.

Gregory could have said---we aren't going to discuss Anthony Weiner because everything that could be said about that situation has been said, let's focus on the very real problems facing our country and how your parties propose to solve them.

As usual, Gotcha chose the low road sitting there salivating over every word, while rubbing his hands together!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

As usual, Gotcha chose the low road sitting there salivating over every word, while rubbing his hands together!

...............................................................................

You're right, he shouldn't have even mentioned it. Just because it was the headline in every paper in America, the lead on every newscast, the only topic posted by MSNBC over the weekend, etc., he should have taken the high road, when he could ask Wasserman about her thoughts and the effect on the party.

Some people call it journalism.

Love the Gottcha Gregory tag also. Wasn't Russert famous for the same thing. Showing a clip and then asking a question about it so there was no wiggle room?

Simpleton, Wasn't Russert famous for the same thing.No Tim Russert was the last of the true journalist's. He was tough but he treated people with respect. He is sorely missed

Simpleton:

he should have taken the high road, when he could ask Wasserman about her thoughts and the effect on the party.

Either you really are a simpleton, or your just dishonestly dodging the issue. Nobody said the Weiner scandal shouldn't be covered. The problem is that it is being covered far more intensely and gleefully than recent Republican scandals that are arguably worse because they involved criminal behavior. There' even a scandal involving corrupt fund raising practices by a Republican congressman who coerced employees into donating to his campaign. With the exception of Rachel Maddow, rather than covering that story, the media has covered it up.

Thanks lisa!

Russert was undoubtedly the MOST unbiased journalist out there!

I didn't even know he leaned Democratic until after his passing!

He is indeed sorely missed...

Houston!

As usual, Gotcha chose the low road sitting there salivating over every word, while rubbing his hands together!

......................................................................

That was her comment about David Gregory talking about the Weiner scandal.

I was addressing that.

Russert was a great journalist and so is Gregory. Just because he asked questions that didn't sit well with her liberal views he is depicted as the devil, salivating and rubbing his hands together, eager to embarrass the Democratic Party.

I'm a Simpleton.

Simpleton:

Just because he asked questions that didn't sit well with her liberal views he is depicted as the devil, salivating and rubbing his hands together, eager to embarrass the Democratic Party.

Feisty Redhead was using hyperbole in describing Gregory, and so are you in characterizing what she said, since she did NOT say that Gregory was the devil, only a biased journalist. And you're still dodging and weaving to avoid acknowledging the fact that "serious" journalists like Gregory downplay Republican scandals and hype scandals involving Democrats. To be fair, Gregory did bring up the Vitter scandal, which the hypocrite Republican Rinse Prybus (sp) quickly dodged and Gregory dropped that subject.

Russert was a great journalist and so is Gregory.

Gregory gained a certain amount of infamy by claiming that it wasn't his job as a White House correspondent to question Bush's reasons for going to war in Iraq, which all turned out to be bogus. I don't know if infamy equates to greatness.

Houston!

Hyperbole. Thanks for the definition but based upon her previous posts, she's into name calling and ridicule. If you don't agree with her, the insults fly. Does Gotcha Gregory sound like an insult or hyperbole.

Please don't try to interpret what she meant, she meant what she wrote until she explains it.

I find it interesting that any journalist that doesn't have the exact same views as the liberals on the blog is biased or not that great. He asked about Vitter but did not go far enough. He said this about the war. Lot's of people said lot's of things about the war that were wrong.

I think if she called for the murder of Breibart, some people here would defend her.

Simpleton

I find it interesting that any journalist that doesn't have the exact same views as the liberals on the blog is biased or not that great. He asked about Vitter but did not go far enough.

Now you're just plain lying. Big surprise. Nobody here has said that all journalists should have the "exact same views as the liberals." But lying doesn't get around the fact that the RNC chairman was never invited on MTP to "debate" the DNC chairman about any of the numerous Republican scandals. Only the DNC chairwoman has been put at the disadvantage of having to "debate" the obviously deplorable conduct of a fellow party member with the opposition party.

If Gregory were to have both chairpersons back to spend a large chunk of air time discussing why Vitter hasn't resigned yet, then I'd say that MTP was being "fair and balanced" (to coin a phrase). But you know nothing like that will ever happen.

He said this about the war. Lot's of people said lot's of things about the war that were wrong.

You definitely are a simpleton. You seem unable to read. I did NOT say that Gregory's problem was that he was wrong about the war. It was his assertion that it wasn't the job of journalists to question Bush's policies that was the problem. He was wrong about journalism, at least of the form of journalism practiced outside of totalitarian regimes.

Why not? The "family values" party has overlooked Ensign And Vitter successfully.

A bad economy is GOP heaven. GOP the Party of Cheap Labor.

Patrick,

Bankers sitting on huge piles of money. That sounds like a Scrooge McDuck comic book. Remember the diving board into the sea of money in Money Bin #3. LOL

PSLC: In other words, they [Wall St Bankers and Big Business] are holding the economy hostage until they get their republican buddies back in office?

And they hold their secret meetings at Dick Cheney's undisclosed location. Plotting. They are always plotting.

This is what we're going to see for the 17 months leading up to the election. Every excuse in the book for why Obama has screwed up the economy. At no point will Obama ever take responsibility for his failures, but he'll be sure to point the finger of blame at everyone else.

And it seems that the Wall Street Bankers are anything but Republicans as Obama is trying to wring campaign cash out of them, and at all places to do so, in the White House!

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/us/politics/13donor.html?_r=3

JoAnna. Why the melodrama? They do not meet in back rooms, its a conspiracy of self interest. Anyway you need to ask the "liberal" pundits, they are the ones reporting on why the Wall St banks are holding onto their money.

Wall St and Big Business have trumped Main St at every turn. Until we get money out of elections they will win. I blame both parties. The American people will be the ones who suffer for Wall St. greed and recklessness.

Yes, and Repubs are on the side of Wall Street and Dems are on the side of Main Street!

Cheap labor is good for you, cheap labor is going to make you rich some day, cheap labor is the key to prosperity for all Americans, even the ones working the cheapest, less and less for you is really more for you, really I swear. See what you may not understand is that evidently America got into this mess because to many Americans were making a decent living with good full time jobs that paid a decent wage and benefit package. Now that we realize that union auto workers and teacher's salaries caused the global economy to nearly collapse we must correct the situation and raise the taxes and cut the wages and benefits of all Americans, so average Americans can once again be prosperous. How can anybody ever have believed this, if they did at some point how could they possibly still believe it after the last thirty years of declining purchasing power of the middle class. Even if your are a bible fundamentalist and you thought you were going to live to be 435 years old like a figure in the old testament you would still be waiting for trickle down economics to positively affect you.

And things are working beautifully now?

I would say so, yes.

Manchester United may be the world's favorite soccer team but playoff rounds are over.

Dallas Mavericks are the best basketball team!

Teamwork, Experience And Mettle = The 2011 NBA World Champions

Congrats, Yellowdog!

It was a GREAT series and the BEST team definitely won. King James will just have to wait for his coronation. And I hope they learned a very valuable lesson about humility and smack talk. Best to keep your mouth closed and let folks THINK you're a fool then to open it and remove all doubt.

Seems that lesson could sure be shared with politicians, eh? ha ha!

Thanks Clara :} - It was their time.

Your OKC Thunder are the next big thing, they will only get better. Hope the NBA and the NFL get their contracts straight and full seasons happen.

and so far, the democrat party seems to be ignoring the whole idea of cuts in spending, which doesn't bode well for them in 2012.

The Problem IS Not Enough Tax REVENUE!

2/3 of CORPORATIONS pay ZERO Federal INCOME TAX!

Then Thy WHINE & CRY About Cumbersome State taxes

Which Most Pay ONLY 5.4% DOWN from 10% in 1980 !

The No NEW REVENUE and No NEW TAXES is for RICH ONLY!

That IS THE PROBLEM.

Minnesota BECAUSE of Pawlenty ALSO LOST thier Aa1 RATING from MOODY'S in 2010

Due DIRECTLY to PAWLENTY Short Term SHIFT & SPEND TRICKERY!

Most GOP Cry it is OLD GENERIC LIBERAL THINKING ?

IT IS THE TRUTH................ The MATH PROVES IT!

well ---- if all of the democrat candidates follow your example, then they are in big trouble in 2012. ---- as i already stated, no ideas for spending cuts, no votes. ----- you don't seem to understand that many people in this country are fed up with the constantly increasing costs of govt, at all levels.

Ronpal,

See if you can remember way back to the Reagan era. Governor Reagan asked a friend of his in the financial community to do a study of waste in the California government.

Later, as President, he asked the same friend to do the same study on the Federal government, and do it for free. His friend did his study and came up with hundreds of billions in waste and mismanagement. His final statement I still remember., : "I have only scratched the surface, the waste is unbelievable". And this was way back in the Reagan Presidency. What do you think it is like now??

we are currently in the process of accumulating funds for allocation to various campaigns. ---- our fall meetings will begin the process of allocating those funds. ---- so.... i'm just saying, we are watching the candidates for those ideas, and if their only idea is to pooh pooh those ideas of the other party, then they won't receive our assistance. --------------------------------------------------- edward, that is very true. ---- and that is why we are targeting for removal, any politician, at all levels, who refuses to acknowledge the need for spending cuts.

Isn't it great we have the Internet, where you can claim your something your not. Take ronpal for example, he claims to be an independent but by his words he is definitely a GOP/TPer.

BTW: ronpal, do you really speak for everyone as you claim?

i spent the 1st 4 1/2 months of this year traveling, at my own expense, to meetings all over the western united states ----- january, 80 meetings in california, february in western washington, march, 155 meetings in ten states, and late april, early may, in eastern washington, northern idaho, and montana. ---- one of the new years resolutions i made was to get more actively involved in the process, and it has been encouraging to see how many people are doing the same. ----- as i said before, we are looking at candidates at all levels. ------------------------------------------------ btw, while my primary interest is slanted conservative, i have never been a registered republican, or any other party, for that matter. ---- i have even been known to vote for a democrat candidate or liberal issue. ---- you see, i don't believe that either party has all the answers, so a person needs to make his choices by weighing which candidate's views most closely match the needs of his family. ---- sometimes that might be a republican, and sometimes not. ---------------------- fyi, this group of independent voters went against mccain in 2008, as did i.

btw ----- please do not be confused by my name ---- i am not affiliated with ron paul ---- RONPAL is my actual name.

I never heard one story about a Christian God ever telling anybody to kill anybody for any reason whatsoever, heard a lot of preaching, never heard one JESUS story where he says attack and kill somebody, anybody, not even your enemies. I think GW was dyslexic to he may have been talking to the dog.

Try GOOGLE

God told me to Strike IRAQ!

Then REPLY bACK ...................................

No Reply?

Did God TELL YOU NOT TO as Well ?

God does not talk to me directly, that stuff scares me, I'm old, if God talks to me I'm scared he might say "see ya soon Forrest"

Good post Jack your right on.