Good morning Navy,

Thank You for your great research and actual facts, rather than what we see from the Republicans- Tea People, which anyone with a bit of common sense knows is them making up their own facts.

Job1:

Thank you for the kind words and your posts. Have a great weekend my friend and be well.

Don't forget the lying, USN. This morning in interview Mitt was asked to admit he was wrong when he said GM and Chrysler shouldn't receive support from the US government. "No, he replied, I was right" before claiming that President Obama "finally realized" that the solution was bankruptcy reorganization.

All of which totally ignores the fact that the entire basis of that argument--that the difference between bankruptcy reorganization and bankruptcy liquidation was support from the US government.

USN, what do we call these people? Several names come to mind!

But I think we should continue to call them the GOP/TP. People need to know who they are and they need to associate these new charlatans with what used to be the classic Republican party.

People need to know that continuing to vote Republican will lead them to disaster.

Girls, girls, girly girls - You are all such a riot to read. Seems that obama and company have stubbed their toes big time and all you want to talk about is the big bad boogyman you paint as the right. Why aren't you cheering your obama in adding 54k in jobs?

Your solutions are very typical FR liberal, anything you don't like it is the rights faullt, anything good obama gets the credit. Still you all continue down the path if failing to learn from history, but rather wanting to embrace and live in the past.

If you FR libs don't want to be part of the solution then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

So american--what's the solution?

So John, the solution in my mind is to get both parties to compromise (spending vs debt reduction); but most of all to take away the 'uncertainly' which exists in our economy today. I suspect that the reason we continue to see companies/individuals not hire people is because they can't plan for the future because they don't know what to expect in the future from our government. Any good business person will not expand their business, add new employees, ect as long as they can't have some type of assurance as to 'what' government is going to do in the future. It's call 'stability' in the economy!

1. The banks are holding their money, why? They don't know what to expect in terms of regulations in the future. Also, any banker is not going to loan money to someone/business who show they can pay it back (jobs)

2. The housing market, which holds the key to future growth is not coming back. People can't buy homes without jobs; banks won't loan money to people without jobs.

3. Reduce the additional regulations being placed on everyone by government. Yes some regulations are necessary; but the more government steps in, the less people feel they can make decisions on their own.

4. Address the debt issue now! Regardless of party, we've got to get the spending cut and reduce the debt. I'm OK with increasing revenues by cutting out loop holes in the tax system, ect. In addition, 'WE'VE GOT TO ADDRESS ENTITLEMENTS'. I understand that people don't want their entitlements touched but somehow we have to 'adjust' these entitlements for the future! We just can't keep going the way we are.

Just some thoughts to start with!

Great post USN, your post shows just how stupid the left really is. I say keep up the good posts so all of America can see it.

John B, no one on the left of the polictal spectrum has any idea how to fix it. Today in Ohio, Obama claims victory as the unemplyment jumps to 9.1%

Of course Omaba is claiming victory! After all, it's really hard to get the unemployment rate ABOVE 9%. It takes a lot of failed policies and dumb decisions from "the smartest man ever to live in the White House" to accomplish this.

Here is the left touting that the right is the problem...of course it is! Let's see, the left has been in control for the last 3 years, but some how the right is the one that is destroying the country...Oh, by the way, what did the left get done when they had both the executive and legislative branches in their control...the answer is nothing!

OK, to summarize my question about what Conservatives see as the solution;

NJ John took a shot at it and I respect you for doing so. Thank you. 4) I think we can agree that "something will need to be done about entitlements." What that "something" is could make a very fruitful discussion. 1) I believe the "uncertainty" factor is just a Conservative narrative. You manage a business based on the laws you have. I've never been part of a fearful discussion of the concept that a legislative body might change the law. That's what legislative bodies do. When that happens you adapt. 2) Yes, the housing market is desperately overbuilt. It'll remain a drag on the recovery until increasing population can bring supply back into balance. Sad but true. 3) We're going to have to disagree on the level of regulation. You feel overly ponderous regulation is a problem. I believe 30 years of deregulation helped create the 2007 recession.

sonmanvb's solution is to claim Liberals are the problem.

Mark L's solution is to claim Liberals are the problem.

Excuse me if I don't see complaining that some people don't think like you as the problem. I prefer to think of it as one of the rights and benefits of being an American.

USN What about a party that

1.) Approves of sexual harassment in the work place - bill Cliton. Also brutally attack conservative women like Palin who has less gaffs and flaws than odumbo.

2.) Approved killing innocent babies, but protects murderers from the death penalty.

3.) A party that protects unions for votes only. Wonder why US cars can't compete with foreign cars? Duh!! The unions are killing the jobs. Rather have a non union job than sitting home. Oh, that's right, you libs expect someone else to work for you.

4.) The dems have destroyed all those programs you are crying over! Offering these programs to illegals is one way and robbing SS is another not to mention thousands of other dem blunders. Please tell me anything the reps have done in the past to hurt these programs. Just more ignorant fear spouting from the left.

5.) The right see gay as a perversion. Nothing natural about a man wanting to have sex with another man. Round peg goes into a round hole!

6.) that two percent pays over half the tax. Hey bud, please tell me how the middle class does in a socialist country. They are all poor with just a few filthy rich. Our middle class would be considered rich in all the socialist countries!

&.) The states in worse financial difficulties are the blue states!

Bottom line, we are in an obonomy with massive unemployment. If the private sector is struggling and are laying off people, the guvmint should do the same since revenue is down. There will be no recovery if the producers are further burdened. In other words, the libs, or non producers, want the golden egg and have stop caring for and demonizing the goose!

The Republican/GOP work for the rich getting richer.....

Keep in mind that the 'rich' described here consists of anybody with more than a welfare check, food stamps, free utitlies, subsidized housing and have future hopes for free healthcare so as to afford the next 6 pack and carton of cigs.

That would be the main voting block of the Democrats - to make it short.

USN What about a party that

1.) Approves of sexual harassment in the work place - bill Cliton. Also brutally attack conservative women like Palin who has less gaffs and flaws than odumbo.

Hahahaha!!! Your only citation for this is a single president, as compared to the many Republican senators and representatives who have committed sex scandals.

2.) Approved killing innocent babies, but protects murderers from the death penalty.

Nonono. You're completely ignorant of the facts. Abortion is legal. Period. Women have the right to control their body, yet your party approves of murdering abortion doctors.

3.) A party that protects unions for votes only. Wonder why US cars can't compete with foreign cars? Duh!! The unions are killing the jobs. Rather have a non union job than sitting home. Oh, that's right, you libs expect someone else to work for you.

Hahaha. Unions killing jobs. You would rather have us back to 1900s, when workers worked 14 hour shifts?

4.) The dems have destroyed all those programs you are crying over! Offering these programs to illegals is one way and robbing SS is another not to mention thousands of other dem blunders. Please tell me anything the reps have done in the past to hurt these programs. Just more ignorant fear spouting from the left.

It doesn't matter what Republicans didn't succeed in doing in the past; what matters is that the Republicans today literally want to elimate Social Security. Do you have any idea how convenient it is for them? With Social Security out of the way, more money can go to their big business masters.

5.) The right see gay as a perversion. Nothing natural about a man wanting to have sex with another man. Round peg goes into a round hole!

Completely ignorant of facts. Homosexuality is natural. It is observed in animals, and there is no doubt that you are simply another religious conservative who goes to his bible rather than facts.

6.) that two percent pays over half the tax. Hey bud, please tell me how the middle class does in a socialist country. They are all poor with just a few filthy rich. Our middle class would be considered rich in all the socialist countries!

The top two percent controls over half the money of the United States. Yes, us "liberals" want to end that, but as it is, they might as well contribute their fair share. Taxes are at an all time low for the upper class.

Bottom line is, the religious conservative is nothing but a rhetoric spouting drone who can easily be detered.

And what do we have here?

Keep in mind that the 'rich' described here consists of anybody with more than a welfare check, food stamps, free utitlies, subsidized housing and have future hopes for free healthcare so as to afford the next 6 pack and carton of cigs.

Oooh, look at this. Not only are you attacking a strawman, but you are ignoring facts. The TOP 2%. That is the "rich" we are talking about here.

Well said, Mr. Anon.

Obama is "hailing" the auto industry bailouts?

"While the repayment closes the book on the bailout, taxpayers are still about $1.4 billion short of recouping all the money given to Chrysler in 2009 to keep it afloat during bankruptcy."

Only a $1.4 BILLION dollar loss on chrysler alone ... just super.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/03/news/companies/chrysler_fiat/?section=money_latest

Anon,

That is one of the worst posts I have seen on here.

John, "uncertainty" is not just a talking point. I have had and do have a business. I like to be able to write a business plan out 5 years. Can't.

-no idea what my business tax rate will be

-no idea what capital gains rate will be

-no idea what health care costs will be

-no idea what expense rate will be

I would have to guess at a lot of variables and could write 20 variable business plans. And i am just a little guy. I am basically sitting on my hands so to speak. If i pressed the envelope on hiring and health care costs come in too high the next year or two it could cripple my business. My plan just went up 20%.

If the tax rate is raised to 39.6 and another "silent"2% through lsot deductions as planned by BO an almost 42% rate will be detrimental to me.

I sold a rental last fall as i thought the capital gains rate would go up from 15% to 25%.

Health care another biggie. The child part that went into effect had 34 states lose child only policies and caused 20 states to now have zero child only policies available.

BATC, I've made budgets and P&Ls myself. If you need all those things to make a business plan you might as well give up now. You'll never have all that information years in advance. Change isn't just a possibility at all times, it's virtually a certainty. That's life. It's also what provides opportunity. You'll make more gains anticipating and embracing change than you ever will betting that things will remain the same...it just doesn't happen that way.

I agree John, i just want things perfect in my world. LOL. The biggest thing i would like to see is for them make the tax rate permanent. Whatever rate that would be. That is the one big thing for me.

Close second ....Health care costs used to be somewhat predictable at 4-6%. Until i got popped with a 20% increase recently. Having no limit policies, no disqualifying policies worries me this might be a yearly trend unlike i have ever seen.

That is why i have more difficulty now than ever before.

Mr Anal

I can come up with 10times more dem sexual scandals with every rep you can come up with. I wasn't talking about the sex act in the first place, but the libs approving the act!

Your second point - so are guns and religion, but the libs are trying to take away both! Again, I am talking about the lack of morals the libs have.

And the dems are bankrupting SS and the whole fed guvmint! I guess that is OK with you. The dems have had control of the house and senate 80% of the time since WWII and had a super majority in the senate 26% of the time compares to 0% the reps have had it. Prezs can't spend a dime. So we all know how SS got this way in the first place!! Hahaha

Nobody works 14 hour shifts without getting OT. There are labor laws that protect workers w/o unions. Unions are like chemo. When you have cancer and are treated with chemo and it results in curing the cancer, do you still take the chemo even if the continuation kills you?? Same with unions!!

Also the 2% aren't all the rich. You act like the 2% are all the rich we have. According to odumbo, any family making over $250,000 is rich!

Homosexuality occurs naturally in animals, so does dogs eating turds. I guess that behavior will be OK with libs too! You may use animal standards to justify your human behavior, but I prefer a higher standard!

My last remark will be that the Bible is facts and I hope you understand that before it's too late.

First of all my name is not "Mr. Anal".

Second of all, where are you getting the idea that we are defending sex scandals? Do you have a source for that?

Third of all, while Democrats have held the senate longer than Republicans, you have to realize that it is the president who actually passes the budget itself. So yes, it is Reagan's fault we even have a national debt at all; before then all presidents reduced the WWII debt. Reagan got exactly what he wanted in his budgets, and he screwed the nation forever. The only reason why we are even talking about the whole debt problem is because much of the money that could be going into reducing the deficit/debt is going into paying the INTEREST of Reagan's debt. The rest of the deficit is from the Great Recession, which is understandable and excusable.

Fourth of all, it doesn't matter which party damaged SS in the past. A liberal created social security, and it is the conservatives today who are trying to destroy it. It is debateable whether illegal immigration (a issue that, contrary to what you think, not all liberals "support") is weakening Social Security as it is. But it is undeniable that the conservatives today are trying to outright destroy it.

Fifth of all, you are not realizing what exactly a labor union is. A labor union is an organization of workers who team up to protect their rights and interests. In other words, what you call "unions", is much of the working class itself.

Sixth of all, the people who make over 250,000 IS the top 2 percent. . If you deny the fact that being in the top 2% is "rich", then that certainly kills your point about the middle class being "richer than most socialist countries".

Seventh of all, you are really dodging my point about homosexuality and jumping to a strawman. You originally said

Nothing natural about a man wanting to have sex with another man.

I provided a counterexample. If my counterexample is not good enough for you, homosexuality HAS been observed in genes. Tell me, why is homosexuality a perversion? Give me a factual reason or I will report you for being simply a homophobe.

Eighth of all, your "final remark" makes you really look like a young earth creationist. Do you really want to go this direction? If you do, I guaruntee that you will be hit by a tsunami.

ignorance. The congress prepares the budget and votes on it. Reagan brought us out of the carter misery and we have reaped the benefits until nancy bela lugosi took over. Cliton was controlled by the reps majority. Once again the prez can't spend a dime without congress. This governmant was founded on Christian principles and man poking another man in the waste exit hole is a perversion. Look in the Bible.

SS is already destroyed by the dems. They can't even handle a simple cash basis retirement plan!! They have spent the ss reserves starting with Johnson. How do you think cliton boasted a surplus? It was with ss money.

I am surpriised libs are so uneducated!

The Wall Street Journal reported that the Bush White House had “the worst track record for job creation since the government began keeping records.”

I guess they're lucky to have the current administration attempting to beat that record.

Now compare this to what has the GOP/TP done for this country in the last 2+ Years.

They were in the minority until January 2011. That is like asking what did Obama accomplish for the 8 years of the Bush presidency. Oh I forgot he wrote not one but two books about himself.

It's really no surprise to see all the MSNBC liberals in here patting each other on the backs after bashing the GOP and TP on an article that has everything to do with Obama's inability to pull us out of an economic slump. Nice attempt at diverting attention from the real story here but those of us with functioning brains can see right through it.

You keep your head in the sand. Show me one thing the GOP/TP has done in the last 2 years to move this country forward. All they have done since President Obama has taken office is "Obstruct" just about every bill that tried to create jobs, help small business etc.

The GOP/TP is sitting on the sidelines, doing NOTHING to help America and then blame everybody else for what is really a GOP/TP Failure for America. Rummy had it 180 degrees out of phase yesterday when he said President Obama failed America. It is the GOP/TP that has failed America. They are the ones that ran on a platform of creating Jobs, improving the Economy. So just show us the proposed legislation that will create jobs in America, and stimulate the economy. What are the bill numbers so I can go and read them????????

THe lies on the right are starting to come home to roost. They have been exposed as frauds and hypocrites.

@US Navy

You keep your head in the sand. Show me one thing the GOP/TP has done in the last 2 years to move this country forward. All they have done since President Obama has taken office is "Obstruct" just about every bill that tried to create jobs, help small business etc.

Yeah the Democrats had a majority in the house, and between 57 and 60 votes in the Senate and control of the White House, but its the Republicans fault.

Any other fairy stories?

I heard this morning that as a candidate President Obama was reading a self-help book on negotiating. Kind of sums it up. For two years he could not get single Republican senator. Now that's leadership. Give me LBJ any day.

I see that Navy asked a question of, "Show me one thing the GOP/TP has done in the last 2 years to move this country forward. "

Can anyone give us something.

Can't wait for Romney to campaign in Michigan where he called for the auto industry's demise and chastised President Obama for the audacity to SAVE Chrysler and GM.

Go Mitt!

Obama didn't save anything but the union vote. Better check your liberal math, there is still 84 billion that will never be paid back to the taxpayers. The stimulus slush fund is begin to use to buy votes, nothing else. All that is probably over your limited reasoning power.

Of course, in liberal math, that is a bargin.

Alan

"Give me LBJ any day."

----------------------------------------

That is not the nature of President Obama. However, if he was like LBJ, he would be putting a foot up the A$$es of these worthless Republicans.

US Navy - thanks for taking the time to type President Obama's many successes (so far). Pretty amazing - especially with the GOP doing everything possible to make sure our President fails. Did your list include our Commander in Chief ordering the SEALS to get bin Laden? It has flabbergasted me to read the GOP posts that President Obama had nothing to do with the raid, some actually feeling sorry for bin Laden, and of course insisting that George W and Cheney get the credit since they broke the law by performing torture.

Oh you libby girly girls - You forgot to mention the most important thing obama did (er didn't do) and put put America on the path of economic recovery. All that rhetoric and still he is afraid of putting numbers behind the rhetoric.

I can hardly wait until he again blames the right in a televised speech. Isn't a leader supposed to take charge and get both sides to work together? Seems that the 2005 jr senator from illinois could have used more political experience before stepping up to the foul line.

At least he can try to recycle his "hope and change" slogan in 2012. After all, some say the electorate have short memories.

Job1, I can't show any thing the GOP has done in the last 2 years since they just got the house in Jan of this year, the first time since 2006. Until then, it has been the DEMS doing the great work of spending other peoples money. I can't speak for any other conseritive except my self but I am not now or at any other time a Bush fan as Bush is not nor ever will be a conservitive. I say this because while the DEMS have controlled the house since 2006, Bush signed the spending into law for them and should have been vetoing them in order to get spending until control.

job1 and navy - the easiest thing to mention concerning moving the country forward was the bipartisan debt commision. The next would have been getting a FY2011 budget thru. Then promoting business as our friends in developing private sector jobs. Having paul ryan submit a proposed FY2012 budget + a ten year debt/deficit reduction plan with numbers and projections by the CBO.

It is amazing that that obama chose to ignore the debt commision and rather than provide us with a plan supported by numbers on how to address our medium and long term debt/deficit. Isn't a financial plan all about numbers?

If obama wants to continue on his quest of "my way or nothing" there will be more than enough news links to show his lack of wanting to lead America forward.

Again with the "ignoring the debt commission" talking point of which Conservatives are so proud. Maybe someday there will be 12 step programs to free people of such nonsense.

The fact is, their vision is less about reducing the deficit than it is about changing the basic social compact in America. As Ronald Reagan's own budget director said, there's nothing "serious" or "courageous" about this plan. There's nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. There's nothing courageous about asking for sacrifice from those who can least afford it and don't have any clout on Capitol Hill. And this is not a vision of the America I know.

The America I know is generous and compassionate; a land of opportunity and optimism. We take responsibility for ourselves and each other; for the country we want and the future we share. We are the nation that built a railroad across a continent and brought light to communities shrouded in darkness. We sent a generation to college on the GI bill and saved millions of seniors from poverty with Social Security and Medicare. We have led the world in scientific research and technological breakthroughs that have transformed millions of lives.

This is who we are. This is the America I know. We don't have to choose between a future of spiraling debt and one where we forfeit investments in our people and our country. To meet our fiscal challenge, we will need to make reforms. We will all need to make sacrifices. But we do not have to sacrifice the America we believe in. And as long as I'm President, we won't.

Today, I'm proposing a more balanced approach to achieve $4 trillion in deficit reduction over twelve years. It's an approach that borrows from the recommendations of the bipartisan Fiscal Commission I appointed last year, and builds on the roughly $1 trillion in deficit reduction I already proposed in my 2012 budget. It's an approach that puts every kind of spending on the table, but one that protects the middle-class, our promise to seniors, and our investments in the future.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/obamas-deficit-speech-transcript/237274/

and that my dear friend was one of the furthest from reality speeches I have ever heard...even Jon Stewart made fun of it.

And how many votes did the Obama budget get? It lost 97-0...not even one democrat would back him......not even Cowboy Poet Harry Reid..

Obama the Communist/Socialist/anti-American/pro-Arab/anti-Military, has already surpassed Carter as the worse president this country has ever seen.

The only thing Obama has given us is "Change We Can Step In"

Nice empty talking point, Joebuck...if you've been doing your homework you already realize that the budget in question didn't get any Democratic votes because President Obama already had requested changes. Republicans pushed it to a vote through parliamentary maneuver to avoid actually doing any legitimate budget work;

Senators did not vote for President Obama's 2012 budget when it came up for a vote in the Senate Wednesday. Press TV's U.S. Desk asked Paul Craig Roberts, Former Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury to comment on this issue.

Roberts said, "The vote against Obama's budget was merely political theatre. It does not mean anything. The Obama budget that was voted down, was the original budget of last February, however last month in April, Obama suggested major changes to the budget. The Democrats are working on the new budget … but are not yet ready to submit it for a vote."

"All of the Republican budgets were voted down yesterday. In order to cover the embarrassment, the Republicans brought out the old Obama budget knowing that the democrats would vote against it because they have replaced it with the new budget that they are preparing. So it means nothing and it was merely political theatre."

The Republican budget proposal which was crafted by the Republican House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan would have turned Medicare into a private program but was rejected in the Senate.

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/181900.html

I guess we'll resolve a budget when Republicans decide to do the work of the people instead of playing political games.

John, as if both sides don't play political games? As in when Schumer got busted on what he thought was a private dems only conference call saying "we decided in our caucus that all Rep. ideas are to be refered to as extreme". That is big time playing games when the dems tell all their people to call any R idea that comes across the desk extreme, even ones that haven't been proposed yet.

Both sides do it to the detrement of our country, no side is better or worse than the other at it. They both suck.

It shows us Dennis how interconnected the international economy is and how fragile the recovery is. While disappointing, not entirely unexpected that there would be bumps in the road, especially when you consider that we are recovering from the worst recession since 1929. I'm glad that the White House is concerned because I haven't seen any concern or plans from the Republicans who got us into this mess.

Dennis:

I agree. I am starting to wonder is Mother Nature is a Republican. President Obama can only go so far to create an environment favorable for creating JOBS. The GOP/TP to date has done nothing on JOBS even though they have campaigned on creating JOBS and Stimulating the Economy. Many have wondered why they have done nothing, because this is exactly what they want so they can use this against President Obama in 2012 even though they are a major part of the problem.

They are still on the agenda that Tax Cuts create JOBS. If so then where are they over the last 10+ years?? Tax Cuts for the 2% do NOT create jobs and here we are seeing more proof again. This is also what the GOP/TP has taken Tax Cuts off the table. They are making sure they get what they want while the rest of us stand in the food lines.

This is more proof that it is the GOP/TP that has failed America and NOT President Obama like Rummy claimed yesterday. If he (Rummy) wants to talk about failure, he does not need to look any further than the GOP/TP Party.

Before the Teapublicans can say it, the government does not create jobs but the do create legislation that enhances the atmosphere for expanding and creating jobs in the private sector and usually subtitled as a “jobs bill”. But after taking control of the House 5 months ago the Teapublicans have not produced even one so called jobs bill … not one.

Dennis:

You say the truth. I agree 100%. You have a great weekend and thanks for the great posts to end a weird week.

Dennis, Columbus Ohio

Honestly, I was trying of a single bill the House has passed that would create jobs, myself, and I couldn't think of one.

It seems to me, when you ask teachers to pay more towards retirement, then pass these state budget "savings" on to the wealthiest individuals in the form of a $2,700 tax cut (as the Teapublicans have done in Maine), then less money in the pocket of the middle class means less money spent, which means fewer jobs created. What is a millionaire going to do with $2,700? Tour the vineyards of France, maybe. That doesn't help the American economy.

Republicans filibustered to deepen our federal budget deficit, preferring to give more money to the already wealthy.

Conservatives in statehouses around the nation have done the same, most spectacularly in Wisconsin where they attacked the incomes of middle class workers in a phony crisis that was created by tax cuts for the rich.

Given that it's only natural to ask what would help the economy more at this stage of the recovery--the extra money we've directed from the pockets of the middle class to the rich, or continued employment for those 29,0000 newly unemployed government workers?

I'd like to know where those government jobs were lost?

lucious - by all reported indications government jobs lost were mainly at the state and local level.

Dennis - specifically what legislation would you like to see that will DIRECTLY create private sector jobs? You know jobs that require payrolls to be expanded by selling a product, idea or service.

Good morning Dennis, how are you today? How many more excuses are you and the left going to come up with to blame the slow economy on? Now it's the weather, first it was the GOP even though the democrats controlled congress with enough votes to pass anything during Obama's first couple of years, but wasted it on the stimulus and health care reform bills. The left is still blaming Bush but remember the democrats controlled congress in Bush's last 2 yrs in office. The economy started going in the toilet in 2007 (that's when the democrats took control of congress). Both parties are to blame and neither party has the sense to realize that working against each other for the sole purpose of getting elected is hurting the country. I keep hearing both parties talking about taxes, but have not seen one thing to change the antiquated tax code. Obama is in over his head and his ego has kept him from trying to work with the republicans to create jobs and improve the economy. He (Obama) needs to kick the democratic Senators, especially Harry Reid, in the rear end as they have become the biggest problem.

We must raise taxes on the rich, they don't deserve all that money and I want my share. Only higher taxes on those that create jobs will open up the job market. The higher the taxes the more jobs created. :)

Obama is "hailing" the auto industry bailouts?

"While the repayment closes the book on the bailout, taxpayers are still about $1.4 billion short of recouping all the money given to Chrysler in 2009 to keep it afloat during bankruptcy."

Only a $1.4 BILLION dollar loss on chrysler alone ... just super.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/03/news/companies/chrysler_fiat/?section=money_latest

The jobs front is only going to get worse. The new Republican governors are laying off as much government workers and teachers they can to prove that there are no jobs.

If you live in Florida there will be openings at Mrs. Scott clinics, since her husband is forcing every welfare recipient to go to HER clinics to take drug tests. To make up for those job openings, he will be cutting $3.3 B from education while his deficit is $3.6B. Can you imagine how many teachers will be in the unemployment line?

This is just from one state. The ones that wants the President to fail must be drooling right now.

FACTS:

"In May 2010, fueled largely by U.S. Census hires, the economy gained more than 450,000 jobs. Then the next month, it lost nearly 200,000."

"What’s more, the unemployment rate ticked up from 9.0% to 9.1%."

No war in Iraq: Why are there still 45,000 + troops there? Tell my brother-in-law who is there tha he can smile now and tell the people STILL shooting at him that it's OK we are not at war anymore, our President said so, so you can stop trying to kill me now. See how that one flies.

Since the commentary on here from the left has taken the traditional tactic of talking around the facts of the article (which I posted above for you) let's add some more smelly herring to the conversation.

1. Anyone care to tell me who rebuked the Republicans, who on 3 separate occasions, when they advised the house market was going to be a huge issue and the banks needed to revise their lending standards?

Think, Frank, Pelosi and then Reid. It's OK, go to the federal government websites and research how this happened in 2001, 2004 and 2005. It's all there for you to read - actually real data. Interesting to see how those who were in control were so smug (Pelosi and Frank really) about the whole situation and claimed the Repubs were just trying to kill home ownership dreams for millions of middle class and poor in this country. Interesting to see the Repub remarks about the situation is not sustainable, etc.

Anyhow, there is a herring for you - I brought this up during the elections a couple years back and really never got pushback, it's hard to argue with the facts. But of course that's ancient history, but it really does fly into the face of the statements that Bush was responsible for all this - heck in the 2001 request he made it! Does tie into Clinton disposing of the law that prevented insurance and banks from co-mingling though. Weird how that all worked out, with housing and all.

Anyhow, nice way to sit back read some comedic posts and smile - really quite satisfyingly - as this POTUS just puts his foot in it over and over again - oddly enough, just as many said he would.

Oh and someone mentioned how the rest of the world has an improved image of the USA because of Obama - ummm, have you set foot outside the US lately? You do know he is the absolute laughing stock of the political world right? I met some wonderful folks in New Zealand who say he looks like a handsome man but there is not much going on otherwise - a very poor decision maker as it was stated by one of them. A longtime British friend I visited also lamented the poor standing the US has in the world and how our POTUS in no way helps as people think he is nice but not at all qualified to do anything. I advised him that's what go him elected in the USA. No substance, but man he looks like a walking ad for a suit store :) !

It would help for folks to get out and see the world and talk to people outside of their little box - might open them up to what's really going on. But for many, alas, the box is built and they will never set foot outside of it.

Happy Saturday all AND as always....

LIBS: Insert degrading, debasing, emotional charged and non-humanizing remarks below: ((c'mon now, who else requests this, but I did put parameters on it! :) ))

A lot of those govt jobs were lost from attrition. People retiring are not being replaced. Think it was cnn that i saw that on.

Funny how Republicans take all the blame here when the Dems have had control of both houses controlling all spending and legislation since the 2006 election, until they lost one branch the last couple of months. Yet they bear no blame at all? Seriously?

good call BigATC - they've had going into 3 years to do something to resemble a plan. And they had control - no limits pass what they want - and they still didn't get it done. Well healthcare, so that got through, of course does nothing for the economy but cost more -- silly CBO only need them when the numbers look favorable. haha!! Now, the Repubs are in for about 5 full months and they have little power to do much unless the Dem's play nice as well. So who gets the blame, Repubs - fascinating logic (or lack of).

Also would like people to google "fannie mae hearings 2004" and listen to the republicans bringingup the need to look into Fannie and Freddie 4 years before the housing debacle. And Listen to Waters, Frank, Meeks, Davis, Clay (all Dems) talk down to the R's and say all is well with Fannie and Freddie. The Senate Dems killed efforts to reform Fannie and Freddie in 2005 including then Senator obama.

They packaged around a Trillion in subprime loans since then and sold them off all over the place. Then we watched them turn to crap.

I guess when facts don't support the Conservative argument you have to trot out the convenient narratives.

they've had going into 3 years to do something to resemble a plan. And they had control - no limits pass what they want - and they still didn't get it done.

For 1 of those years we had a Conservative Republican president with power of the veto.

For another of those years Scott Brown was in the Senate and a filibuster-proof majority wasn't even part of the discussion.

In between the supposed "filibuster-proof majority" was reliant upon 2 independents, one of whom (Joe Lieberman) had already been rejected by Democrats because he votes with Republicans more often than not.

Which is how 400 bills came to pass the House of Representatives in the last Congress only to die by Republican filibuster in the Senate.

Also would like people to google "fannie mae hearings 2004"

And so we move on to the myth that Fannie and Freddie brought down the world economy...totally ignoring the fact that 80% of the subprime market didn't wasn't even guaranteed by the government, and the meltdown started with Lehman Brothers in the derivatives market, a point far removed from Fannie and Freddie.

Facts huh? You claim Lieberman votes mostly with R's. After he was in as an independant he voted for all procedural votes with dems and 90% of the time with dems.

Facts? I will give you a date certain for Fannie/Freddie July 22, 2008. As of that date they owned or guarenteed over half of americas loan valued at over 5 Trillion. Date Paulson had Treasury guarentee billions of their loans. As they were melting.

Fannie/Freddie was melting right along with Lehman as a year and a half earlier they were having trouble with funds. Govt chose not to bail out Lehman but couldn't do that with them. Treasury put them into conservacy in what was one big bailout of financial derivatives. Lehman was not far removed as they had bets on Fannie/Freddie.

Credit Default Swaps are the most widely traded form of credit derivatives. If they had went down, the "event of default" owed to the derivative insurers would have hit a Trillion at least. They didn't have it and would have had a massive snowball effect. There were still payouts because the conservatorship triggered it and made one hell of a mess trying to put values on that stuff. Stock was hammered and scared the hell out of people.

One of those chicken and the egg things as to the first trigger down but it was inevitable. Derivatives are dangerous and should be illegal in my opinion. I think somebody in the mid to late 90's in congress tried to do that but Greenspan came out on keeping them. Best quote on derivatives was from Buffett when he said they were "financial instruments of mass destruction".

Interesting tidbit .... the whole world has somewhere around 60 trillion gdp. There are over 100 Trillion in derivative "bets".

That's right, Paulsen had Fannie and Freddie take ownership of a HUGE part of the subprime market from private hands as one of the many actions taken to stave off another Great Depression. I don't give the GW Bush administration credit for much, but without some of the things they did we would absolutely have been in another depression.

Since you have an interest in derivatives and the serious mistake that was made in not regulating them you should do some research on Brooksley Born, head of the CFTC at the time we SHOULD HAVE started regulating these beasts. She was shut down cold by the smartest guys in the room. Unfortunately it was the smartest woman in the room who was correct.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that "too big to fail" is the biggest single problem, and one day we'll regret not dealing with it.

BigATC - again I applaud you for bringing up the Fannie / Freddie issue - Dems like to pretend or are unaware of that whole debacle. Pelosi, Waters, Frank et al., were pretty smug in their assertion they were delivering the American dream each day on ... what else ...? borrowed money. Sound familiar....debt limits?

Patrick Salt Lake City

"Mr Boehner. Where are the jobs"

Mr Boehner has got no clue hence he's busy leading teapublicants in chasing shadows.

i believe we know what to and how to go about it but you have a part with misplaced priority in teapublicants refusing to face the reality and not ideology. this most unfortunate

Obama owns this economy so you should ask your hero where the jobs are?

So Jm, were Republicans lying when they said they'd turn the economy around if elected, or when they tried to take credit for an economic recovery that started before they were elected?

It took less than three weeks for the new Republican Congressional leadership to claim credit for an apparent economic upturn.

An aide to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, Brian Patrick, emailed reporters this morning:

THERE ARE THE JOBS: Republicans Prevent Massive Tax Increase, Economy Begins to Improve....

Even by the standards of the most shameless hack, this is farcical. Worse, it's part of a growing pattern.

Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), for example, argued two weeks ago, for example, that the recent good news -- private-sector job growth, big corporate profits, major gains in the major Wall Street indexes -- that occurred throughout 2010 were the result of Republican tax policies. As Kyl sees it, business leaders in early 2010 predicted the tax policy agreement crafted in late 2010, and started growing the economy based on their future-predicting abilities.

On Fox News last week, House Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier (R-Calif.) offered a related argument, insisting that indications of economic improvements are "in large part" because Republicans "won our majority and we're pursuing pro-growth policies."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_01/027665.php

Conservatives have a choice--they were lying when they took credit for an improving economy early in the year or they're responsible for the economic pause we're experiencing now...which is it?

Ane maybe the republicans should put the country first, and help him do so.

Yep: and America is paying the lowest in income taxes for the last 60 years with the majority of the benefits going to the top 2%, so where are the JOBS??

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Yep: and America is paying the lowest in income taxes for the last 60 years with the majority of the benefits going to the top 2%, so where are the JOBS??

.....................................................................

Funny that you should only be asking the GOP where are the jobs. I don't hear any proposals for job creation coming from the minority party. I hear excuses about GOP blocking this and that. The dems had a super majority in both Houses of Congress for 2 years and did not create the jobs they promised. Saved a ton but didn't create enough to move the job numbers materially. Even though they are in the minority now in the House does not mean they can't offer a plan for job creation. Oh, and none of that if they did the GOP would just say no. That's no reason for not trying.

Also, great that we're paying taxes at a lower rate but that means nothing to those unemployed or working poor who need to receive the EIC they are earning so little. Meaningless. I

Groucho. He has with his policys created the climate that has saved and added hundreds of thousends of jobs, then came 2010 and the republicans have put politics ahead of the needs of the country. Tell me a single positive thing republicans have done that has helped create jobs?

Patrick Salt Lake City

Tell me a single positive thing republicans have done that has helped create jobs?

..........................................................

You're missing the point of my post. I'm saying that NEITHER party has done anything to create a significant number of jobs and just cause the dems are in the minority, that doesn't relieve them of the responsibility to do so also.

I said in a post here today that he either saved or created over a million jobs but that's not enough as today's job numbers prove.

Groucho. The democrats have a "Made in America" bill right now that republicans (and conservative democrats) refuse to bring to the floor. Name me a republican bill dealing with jobs?

Groucho:

Actually President Obama has from day one been pushing an agenda to create an environment that will in fact create jobs. THe GOP/TP has yet to do so. You can google it. He wanted an Infrastructure Bill to address the failing roads, sewers, etc. McConnell said on the record he would block or filibuster any such bill in the Senate. He did the same thing on proposals for green technology jobs etc.

Until both parties stop the crap and do something to create the environment that will bring jobs to the US and stimulate the economy we are doomed. Just recently President Obama got hammered by the right for going overseas trying to get trade deals for our goods that would also OMG - create jobs back here in the USA, in manufacturing.

President Obama is trying, the problem is that the right just wants him to fail, period and has blocked just about everything he has tried to do. This "Obstructionist" agenda is starting to come home to roost and it is on te GOP/TP doorstep where it belongs.

Our President is doing what he can but as he has said before, "he can not do it alone". And, this is the problem, the other party just does not want to help.

Patrick Salt Lake City

The democrats have a "Made in America" bill right now that republicans (and conservative democrats) refuse to bring to the floor. Name me a republican bill dealing with jobs?..

........................................................

Again. you're missing the point. The GOP and some dems are blocking the bill. It's not a one sided thing, it's BI-Partisan. Both are at fault.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired..

As I just pointed out to Patrick it's both the repub's and dem's blocking the jobs bill. NOT one party. He can't get his own party to agree on the Made in America Bill.

It's BOTH parties, both are at fault and I think that it's due to the fact that Obama is NOT putting enough pressure on the members of his own party to vote yes on the bills. They just die in committee.

In this case it's NOT an obstructionist agenda. It's a failure of the democratic leadership to whip their members to vote yes. Who knows, with some GOP defectors, some bills might pass.

No one on either side is trying.

...and you can't create an environment to do anything when your a cheerleader and not the quarterback. He needs to finally start fighting for the legislation he wants, giving full throat support. Unless he does that, status guo.

Groucho. No, I am not missing your point, I am disagreeing with it.

Patrick,

Then let's agree to disagree. I also replied to Navy's post on this issue.

Since December I have been waiting to see the awesome effects of the tax cut extensions. I haven't seen them. As a liberal it is one of the things I spoke the most against when Pres. Obama broke his pledge for political expediency. Can we now agree that no amount of tax cuts or uncertainty about taxes will significantly affect the unemployment number?

For those who revel in the cutting of federal, state, local government and those "supposed union thugs", do you not realize that as government or union workers are fired they are added to the unemployment line?

From MSNBC

The pace of hiring slowed sharply in May from the previous three months, when the economy added an average of 220,000 new jobs. Private companies hired only 83,000 new workers — the fewest in nearly a year, and local governments cut 28,000 jobs, the most since November.

As I stated yesterday as state and local budgets are tightened more government jobs will be cut in the coming months to feed an ever increasing cycle of of unemployment and lack of consumer spending.

About 50,000 private sector jobs created even when McDonalds had a huge job initiative, even with Obama's tax cut extensions. Even with the extra money from the cuts and the extra change from the SS temp reduction we can not buy ourselves out of this.

All sectors are hurting ranging from retail to construction. Again, I state this is the new normal. Do our politicians Dem and Repub want to turn it around or do they only wish to continue arguing political philosophies?

Keep blaming the Republicans. He has been in office with control of both houses of Congress for 2 years, and the Republicans haven't controlled any part of Congress until they won the house last November for the past 4 years. Just what were they supposed to do in the past 5 months with one house of Congress to change the Democrat agenda ? Continue excusing the do nothing Democrat Senate, and the anti private sector Presidency. Just how long will the fault of where we are now continue to be assigned to the Republicans ? Will there ever be a day when any responsibility is assumed by the left ? Seems to be pretty much damned if you do, and damned if you don't when you're a Republican. I agree they certainly have made some bone headed decisions, but at some point the finger pointing Dems will need to man up for their own policy screw ups.

I think if you're an Independent you're probably going to be taking a good second look at the present economic policy being promoted by the Left. It doesn't appear to be taking off as advertised over the past two years. Maybe we ought to get the private business sector involved as they are the real engine that drives job growth.

Larry D, the economy has added 2.1 MILLION jobs in the last year, with 14 months of consecutive jobs increases, 14 consecutive months of increases in the manufacturing sector, and 18 consecutive months of increasing non-manufacturing activity. Quite a turnaround from the worst recession since the Hoover Depression and losing 700,000 jobs per MONTH.

I'd say Democrats have done pretty well with the GOPTP trying to block them every step of the way.

2.5 million jobs lost under Obama. Unemployment just rose back to 9.1% as of today. 1.723 million jobs created in last year, however with over 8 million jobs lost in the recession we are a long way from proclaiming a job turn around. Several job sectors showing losses in May, and temp hiring way down a bad indicator for future hiring.

I'm confused, Larry. Republicans were supposedly responsible for the economic recovery back in February;

Via Dave Weigel comes this amusing press release from Eric Cantor’s office:

THERE ARE THE JOBS: Republicans Prevent Massive Tax Increase, Economy Begins to Improve: U.S. companies plan to hire more workers in the coming months amid growing optimism over the economy, a quarterly survey released Monday showed, providing further evidence that the jobs market is turning around. In the fourth-quarter poll of 84 companies by the National Association for Business Economics found 42% of companies interviewed, ranging from manufacturing to finance, expect to boost jobs in the six months ahead. That’s up from 29% in the first three months of 2010. Only 7% in the latest survey predict they will shed jobs in the coming six months, down from 23% at the start of last year. Dow Jones

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/republicans-take-credit-for-improved-economy-after-three-weeks-in-office/

Were Republicans lying in January when they claimed responsibility for an improving economy, or are they trying to avoid responsibility now that the policies of the new House of Representatives don't seem to be giving the economy a lot of confidence?

From JohnB:

"Larry D, the economy has added 2.1 MILLION jobs in the last year, with 14 months of consecutive jobs increases, 14 consecutive months of increases in the manufacturing sector, and 18 consecutive months of increasing non-manufacturing activity. Quite a turnaround from the worst recession since the Hoover Depression and losing 700,000 jobs per MONTH.

I'd say Democrats have done pretty well with the GOPTP trying to block them every step of the way."

Can you help me with the math on this then? How does the unemployment climb from under 9% when Obama took office to over 9% now sitting at 9.1% ? Numbers are great, but don't mean much when the biggest number of all is static. Can you help me with this one? Seriously, I am not seeing it. If I walked into a meeting at work and said we've lost more market share, but in reality we are doing better I'd get laughed out of the building. Just sayin'...

You might want to think again about describing yourself as a prodigy. If you look here http://gregor.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/United-States-Employment-in-Millions-2000-2011-SA.png it clearly shows less than 138 million people working in late 2009, right at 140 million people working in early 2011. That clearly indicates around 2.1 million more people working now than a year ago...just what I've said.

As to Larry D's claim about jobs lost since Barack Obama took office the graph clearly shows the cause of that as well. Total employment peaked at over 146 million in 2007 before going into free fall for the remainder of 2007, all of 2008, and most of 2010. The jobs lost between January, 2009 and when the curve finally turned in 2010 couldn't more obviously be part of the Bush Recession.

So, how does the unemployment rate climb in such circumstances? Also equally obvious...the population continued to climb throughout the entire recession. Couple that with reentry of people who've given up looking for work once jobs started to increase (something that happens in every recovery) and there's really nothing here that a business prodigy shouldn't already know.

Good Point. I still want us out of Afghan and Iraq though. I hope this happens and soon. That will save us about 100 Billion or so that maybe we can use to help CREATE JOBS. Just my opinion.

Well said, Groucho.

USN - a lot of folks on these posts say we are out of Iraq - can you clarify for me - we've been told we are not in Iraq anylonger....

You are on a roll. Nice way to end a weird week. Kudos.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired..

Meant to tell you that we are in total agreement on Medicare. The Ryan Plan is a disaster no matter how they spin it and will kill Medicare as we know it. We just can't allow it to happen.

Groucho:

We agree on a lot of issues I think. I agree also that it only takes one to get the ball rolling. Thank you for your very civil and well thought out posts. Enjoy chatting with ya and you have a great weekend. The rain has finally stopped here in Vermont and I think I have a lawn out there somewhere.

Be well.

Navy,

You too and have a great weekend.

I was so disappointed with John Edwards---he had some good ideas and spoke up for poor people and their issues but turned out to be immoral in his personal life. Sad day for him to be indicted for using campaign funds to cover up an affair---just disgusting behavior.

GM & SF:

Agree. You would think with all the complexities going on today there would be some agreement that could be reached by our politicians. If they would only drop the position of all or none and find that one point or two that they could agree on and then work the plan up from there understanding that no one side is going to get all of what they want. The GOP/TP Party used to be very good with compromise but somewhere they lost that art or just figured it was no longer a valid way of doing business. Too bad, we deserve better as a Nation.

Steeler Fan, I admit it, I sent John Edwards $25.00 in 2007, a rare gesture of genorosity on my part, because he was the one candidate who really drove the healthcare issue, and addressed the income inequality we have in this country. His infidelity and apparent egotism aside, the man did a good thing for the country as a whole by highlighting these issues.

George W. Bush was an upstanding family man, good to his parents and loyal to his wife, I'm sure, but what a rotten president he made. Just goes to show, choosing a leader requires a discerning voter.

I agree, Edwards was actually my 1st choice. Campaigned for Edwards but he didn't have a chance against Hillary and Obama for the media/lime light, campaing dollars.

His message, for me, was right on and his policies that talked about the haves and have nots was refreshing to hear. I wonder what his take would be on the over emphasis on cutting spending nowadays in lieu of both cutting spending reasonably and raising taxes.

I personally, think his private life is his private life and should be dealt with in... private. My problem that I have and what most have, including the grand jury is that what he did is illegal. He took money that people sent as campaign donations and allowed them to be funnelled to his mistress. He lied about it to boot.

If people are traveling the country with contributions and pac money and they misuse money like this they belong in the same category as unscrupulous tele-evangelists and con men. If he goes down so be it, I hope justice is served fairly for him and people like Christine O Donnell. and Sarah Palin?

In other news I'm sure a certain NY representative is happy to hear about this breaking news that diverts from his story.

PatHunginton:

You hit it on the head. "Do as I say not as I do, more for me and less for you".

Happy Friday, Nash. You are right that the President often seems to be the only adult in the room. I think he realizes that Boehner is between a rock and a hard place with his own party but would rather deal with him than Cantor so he props him up and in the end there will be a deal. Sad that so much time and effort is wasted on this drama.

Happy Friday to you too Steel Fan! :o)

Nash:

Happy Friday. I think you may be right. I do not see our President accepting a take it or leave it proposal from the right. Especially one that would doso much harm to this country and its citizens. I still cannot get my head around why the GOP/TP would take such a position that is against what so many Americans want. I understand that they (politicians in general) have to pay back the money brokers that paid for the elections, but this agenda is a path that in the long run will hurt the very same people that bought the elections.

Who are these Oil Barron's and Big Business going to sell their products and services to when there is no middle class to buy them? The country cannot survive just on the buying power of millionaires and billionaires. It is the middle class that is the heart and muscle of America. They are putting themselves in a position where mostof the people just will not be able to buy their products and services. So in the long run I do not see how the current agenda of the GOP/TP will keep America strong. I see a Nation that will resemble a Ghost Town of the Old West after all the Gold has been mined out. Yes, they will have stock piles of it, but so what. You can not eat it, since we will have no farmers, no way to transport even if we did, etc. Do not get sick because there will be no Hospitals, Nurses, Technicians, Doctors etc. Forget Health Insurance even if you could afford it as there will be no delivery system. We will all live in bunkers with bars on the windows trying to hang on to the last bits of food and medicines, because all the corporations will be gone, nobody with money to by anything.

You get the idea

Great point Navy . . . here's hoping more Americans see the handwriting on the wall before its too late.

Interesting, isn't it - the GOP/TPers love to quote Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged, yet they're now doing the very thing that Rand vilifies over and over: Trying to assert control from behind a gun, in this case the debt ceiling, pointed at the US and global economy. Sad.

So exactly what is it that the democrats are willing to compromise on, Cut entitlements ... NO, cut welfare....oh heck NO, cut education (which shouldn't be done, but the waste can be cut out) .... oh NO can't cut that!!!!!!!! Lets live in pretend world for just a minute, what if Boehner came and said you know, we are willing to do away with tax cuts for people over $500,000 and all corporate tax credits, just what besides defense are democrats willing to cut?????

janet, you can be excused for missing it because it hasn't been discussed for a while here, but cuts have been the subject of conversation many times in the past. To get started;

-Corporate welfare

-Farm programs should have REAL limitations, to eliminate situations such as Michelle Bachmann's "family farm" collecting $1M in subsidies.

-We have many duplicate programs or programs that have contrary purposes, such as paying farmers to grow tobacco while paying for "stop smoking" programs.

-There's no reason why we need to spend as much on Defense as the rest of the world COMBINED.

Hey, Rob ... I'd be interested in your comments on my post above about how Republicans' plan for creating private sector jobs in my state consists of taking jobs away from the public sector and GIVING them to the public sector, which will ultimately cost local governments a lot more money.

What do you think about that brilliant plan, smart-aleck?

Because even the traditional Republicans in my state have already seen through it.

"smart alek"? lol lib loon; more details please

Just answer my question, rob.

He can't, or won't. Your points are too salient for him to follow.

I'll answer it Anna Molly,

Typically the private sector has been much more careful in selecting the benefit packages for their employees than the government has been. Usually the government just gives whomever has contributed to their election the contract for health insurance and other state employee benefits. Private employers must actually do a cost benefit analysis before they award a contract for employee benefits. So although government employees would not be getting those jobs, the private sector would be much cheaper than government employees because of the cost of their benefits.

Also have you ever watched government roads and highways employees work?? Typically you'll see 4 or 5 of them standing around watching one guy work. The private sector would have those 4/5 guys standing around doing real work. Like working on a pothole up the road.

Private employers must actually do a cost benefit analysis before they award a contract for employee benefits. So although government employees would not be getting those jobs, the private sector would be much cheaper than government employees because of the cost of their benefits.

And your proof? Having seen how it's done in the public sector first hand, I guess I'd have to take issue with that. And it seems to me that private sector employers struggle just as much as public sector employers with health care costs, but long ago solved the problem, not through selecting better plans or by skillful negotiation or working to control costs, but merely by demanding that their employees contribute more and threatening their jobs if they refuse. In this case, you have Senator Ellis's own analysis -- and he's a staunch Republican -- that this plan won't save any money, and will in fact cost more. Where's YOUR evidence, even anecdotally, to the contrary? And if you're advocating that public sector jobs should go to the private sector merely so that wages and benefits can be crammed down even further than they have been up till now, then I reject that approach. Period. And give my regards to Ayn Rand.

Also have you ever watched government roads and highways employees work?? Typically you'll see 4 or 5 of them standing around watching one guy work. The private sector would have those 4/5 guys standing around doing real work. Like working on a pothole up the road.

Seriously, again, where's your evidence for that? Nada. Zip. It's just some dogma being dished by Rush Limbaugh, who never did an honest day's work in his life. And yes, I've watched both public and private sector highway workers, which I can tell from the logos on the trucks that are parked along the sides of the road, and I personally see no difference. None of them ever seem to be working very hard, but yet, the roads actually do get done. So I guess, since you have no evidence, either, we have impasse, don't we?

The proverbial excrement has hit the proverbial fan, and now the Liberals are running around, just dumbfounded their schemes for the economy have failed so badly. And now they're looking for someone to hang the blame on, other than themselves of course.

That's too easy. Put the blame on the corporations who are sitting on mountains of cash accumulated from the record profits they made by cutting jobs and thereby "increasing productivity," and failing to re-invest that money, either in infrastructure or in jobs. These cynical folks, having plenty to get by on themselves, are fully content to sit it out until after the 2012 elections, in the hopes that they can remove the last obstacle to their dreams of totalitarian domination.

How's that for blame-shifting? I'd have to say it comes pretty close to the truth.

There, I saved you the trouble of answering, once again. See ya.

But Anna, the real reason hoards of cash arent being spent is the uncertainty of what that ridiculous health care bill is going to cost. No life time limit, How much more to insure derilict kids to the age of 26, No pre-existing conditions, etc, etc, etc??? A business could bankrupt them selves based off of who they hire healthwise. Banks are also gun shy on who and how much to lend to. They don't know what the Czar of that ridiculous Frank/Dood bill is going to do. Like I said we need a better leader for this country. I hope everyone agrees with that.....

No, we don't. But phony-baloney excuses? I think we can all agree on that. Hoarding wealth and biding your time for the real takeover ... and takedown ... of the American dream? I think we can all see it coming.

Businesses don't leave "mountains of cash" lying around. It's returned as dividends to the investors (Remember those people? The ones that take the risks?) or are invested where the business managers will get the best return, and, right now, that isn't the good'ol U.S.ofA. Businesses also keep cash on hand to be fully capitialized if/when their government demands more from them, like to pay for both new/old entitlements the government "gives" to it's citizens, because health care is a right, correct?

The right-wingers worship Big Money, the way the Japenese worshipped the Emperor during WWII, with the same results. Republicans ought to put their faith in middleclass mobility for a change, instead of the aristocracy of inherited wealth and corporate giants. Innovation is what drives job creation, and innovation has typically come from immigrants and middle managers. When bright people cannot rise in America, we are all in trouble.

You're just making that up, and you know it. Cash reserves of corporations are at an all-time high. They're not just keeping prudent reserves on hand, they're hoarding it, they're not reinvesting it, and they're not distributing it to shareholders. They keep it in low-interest accounts. They can say it's all about uncertainty, but they already know that unless something happens to create demand in this country pretty soon, that "uncertainty" will continue. They tell us that giving them more tax breaks on top of their record profits is the only way to relieve this uncertainty.

I just need someone like you, JoAnna, who are so much smarter than I am, to tell me how that that works in practice. Because it hasn't, so far.

Anna can you back up your claims with actual financial statements from companies on these so-called mountains of cash. Profits turn into shareholders EPS. You cannot continue to have shareholders if you have "record earnings" and don't give a return on investment back to the shareholders. You know the ones who have these companies stock in their portfolio. It is just rich people who have investment accounts.

Excuse the typo. I meant to say It ISN"T just rich people who have investment accounts.

Anna/Amy, I know Obama got elected by convincing you and others that your failures are the result of someone elses successes. As romatic as that sounds 2.5 years later you should realize that beleif is not going to move you or anyone else forward. You can not increase your wealth by re-distributing others wealth. Obama has done you and the poverty lobby a huge dis-service with that message. The USA is a great country and it will be a great country again. We just need the right leadership....

ksw -- Sigh. I've done it many times before, which you would know if you had been reading regularly here. To tell you the truth, it gets pretty tiresome posting the same links over and over again for people who are not interested in reality if it interferes with their pre-conceived ideas. But since you asked politely, here you go:

Here's one from the Wall Street Journal, from just the other day, describing how the cash hoards are NOT being distributed to shareholders:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303654804576349282770703112.html

Meanwhile, the payout ratio—the proportion of earnings paid out as dividend income to shareholders—fell to 28.9% for the past four quarters. That, says S&P senior index analyst Howard Silverblatt, is the lowest level since 1936. Dividends are going up—Intel, UnitedHealth Group and WellPoint have recently raised them—but cash is still piling up far faster than most industrial giants can possibly find a prudent use for it. Of course, investors themselves might have a better use for the cash, if they could get at it.

This one talks about how companies are NOT using this hoarded cash for "reinvestment," but rather they are saving it up for merger and aquisition (M&A) activities, which traditionally results in a net LOSS of jobs.

http://www.marketobservation.com/blogs/index.php/2011/02/08/a-lot-of-us-maamp-a-activity-expected-as-us-company-s-cash-reserves-are-at-a-55-year-high?blog=8

This one talks about the total amount being hoarded and lists the largest hoarders:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/20/top-corporate-cash-hoarders_n_810927.html#s226287&title=11_Apple_Computer

And here's a very recent article from the UK describing the same phenomenon occurring there:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/damianreece/8553507/Osborne-must-give-companies-a-reason-to-stop-hoarding-their-cash.html

UAW:

You can not increase your wealth by re-distributing others wealth.

LoL -- Read my post above. That's exactly what Walker is trying to do in Wisconsin. Increase the wealth of his patrons by re-distributing public jobs funded with TAXPAYER money out of the hands of local governments and putting that same TAXPAYER money into the hands of private companies, with no net job increases, and paying more in the process.

That doesn't look like sound economic theory, job creation, or even fiscal prudence to me, UAW.

You really need to read up on what's REALLY happening in the trenches. Your mindless repetition of right-wing dogma just sounds foolish in the face of the facts, and certainly doesn't cut it with me.

ksw, I think your typo was actually more accurate the first way.

While you are demanding back up from anna Molly, can you back up any of your claims?

To all you you conservatives who posted on this thread:

After a while, when all of the facts don't support your stereotyped assumptions and theories any more, instead of just mindlessly regurgitating the same assumptions and theories over and over again, and living in a dream world that tells you it's all just going to work out, a person who is truly introspective or self-reflective should start questioning their theories.

Maybe you should try that. I know I am. In more ways than one.

Anna Molly Accept my apologies, however I still discount that "all" major companies are sitting on mountains of cash. I cannot disclose confidential information about the company I work for but I know this isn't true. I do find the articles interesting about the companies that are sitting on reserves , "GM, Cisco, Microsoft, and Google". I also would like to see that information based on 2010 and 2011 financials instead of 2009 data.

Anna Molly

It's like the Teapublicans have amnesia for what transpired during the past decade. George W Bush said cutting taxes was the key to growth, but his tax cuts did nothing to stop America's economic decline or the shrinking of the American middle class. The Bush administration championed privatization of government services and it tacked millions onto the cost of the wars as a result of this policy. Why can't the Republicans connect the dots?

Used to be, the Republican Party was the party of pragmatists and Democrats were idealists. Now, the Republican Party might as well be called the Flat Earthers, or Reality Deniers or the followers of Discredited Economic Theories League.

I also would like to see that information based on 2010 and 2011 financials instead of 2009 data.

Then produce some better data, why don't you, instead of just continuing to make unsupported factual assertions to fit your outdated theories. This kind of tactic by Republican posters is also getting tiresome. You ask us to post some links to prove our points, and when you do, you just dismiss them, denying their credibility, without posting anything at all to support your own positions.

In short, when the facts don't fit, just deny the facts.

What we've learned here is that corporations have figured out how to scam the gullible, just like you, into feeling sorry for them, while at the same time robbing even their own shareholders, as the WSJ article reveals. And, by the way, I believe the WSJ data, at the very least, is up to date. And it's not just a few corporations, as you suggest. I have other links as well, but right now, until you come up with something more than one anecdote that would seriously call my overall premise into question, I'll defer.

Ladies I hear the rhetoric your using about how evil corporations are. Frankly it's the same message Obama has been using since '07. Of course we can take wealthy individuals and businesses money thru taxes. But that is not likley to induce them to hire more people, update equipment etc. Likley more businesses will look off shore for better oppurtunities. The irony I think is that corporations would spend more of thier excess capital now if not for the uncertainty of what thier health costs will be and how/who/which banks will provide addtional funding when needed. Right now that cash is safer in the bank until all this becomes clear. Or Obama could assure the country he is not seeking a 2nd term in 2012. Sadley the $ trillion in stimulus money was essentially offset by Obama's rhetoric and failed policies.....

Electing Republicans was supposed to dispel the uncertainty.

Renewing the Bush tax cuts was supposed to dispel the uncertainty.

2/3 of corporations pay ZERO federal income tax--or less.

How much shall we bribe the wealthy elites before they condescend to provide us with employment?

Oh anna you are still such a sweetheart! Shouldn't you have also addressed your criteria on theories, etc to the llibbies as well?

The fun thing about economic theory is that NO ONE has produced a theory than can be proved to be right and therefore become an ECONOMIC LAW. On a historical basis we have a recession every 7-12 years, yet no one has been able to solve this little very repeating event.

The closest any economic policy has come to being a proven law is wealth redistribution. Engels and marx promoted it but so far no country has made it successful.

The biggest problem with wealth redistribution lies in human individuality and exceptionalism. One can redistribute wealth equally among the populace, but soon their will again be the haves and have nots. Not saying they will be the same individuals as prior to the redistrbution, but the minority will again control the majority of the wealth.

Anna, all of the links you provided to back up your ill fated logic are from vary liberal sites with the exception of the WSJ. I can't beleive you use the PuffingtonPost as back up. When I read the PuffingtonPost, I read it as a comic book of stupid ideas and failed policy's of the FAR left. You may as well go get all of your info from Carl Marx himself, wait you probably do. He did publish a book that I am sure you keep very close as does the PuffingtonPost does

JohnB, I think it helped calm some business people when the blanket majority Dem's held in the House and Senate was lost. Ie makes it harder to pass anymore ridiculous laws. Sadly the damage of the Healthcare and Banking bills was already done. Even if Obama stopped his rhetoric against Corps and individuals making $250k plus right now that damage has also already been done. He wouldnt have any credibility if he suddenly decided to work with the private sector. I'm afraid Obama, his rhetoric and policies have destroyed any chance for a private sector recovery during his Presidency. Hopfully that term ends in 2012 (sooner would be better) We can't as a country afford and additional 4 years of his leadership. Let's elect someone with better leadership skills. It will make a differnce I'm sure.

UAW:

Ladies I hear the rhetoric your using about how evil corporations are. Frankly it's the same message Obama has been using since '07.

You are such a tool, trying to suggest that liberals don't think for themselves. That in itself is nothing but a deliberately insulting stereotype that shows you don't pay attention to what people really do say.

I've been saying this about corporations for about 30 years, roughly correlating to the election of Ronald Reagan. I don't need Barack Obama OR Huffington Post, OR Karl Marx, which I have never read, to tell me how to think about corporations. In fact, if anything I believe President Obama been too cozy with corporatists. As for corporations themselves, res ipsa loquitur.

That's Latin. Look it up.

sonmanvb:

all of the links you provided to back up your ill fated logic are from vary liberal sites with the exception of the WSJ. I can't beleive you use the PuffingtonPost as back up. When I read the PuffingtonPost, I read it as a comic book of stupid ideas and failed policy's of the FAR left. You may as well go get all of your info from Carl Marx himself, wait you probably do. He did publish a book that I am sure you keep very close as does the PuffingtonPost does

See my comment to UAW. Frankly, "puffing" seems to sum you up. And next time, instead of attacking my sources, try attacking my FACTS, with some of your own, please. Otherwise, you show yourself to be just as lazy and non-credible as the other conservatives on this thread.

american:

Oh anna you are still such a sweetheart! Shouldn't you have also addressed your criteria on theories, etc to the llibbies as well?

Thanks for the kind words, american. I do believe that everyone should conform their conclusions to the facts, rather than the other way around. But actually, my comment was addressed specifically to the three conservatives who had posted on this thread, all of whom had fallen into the same old tired trap of demanding facts and then denying them because they don't support their pre-conceived ideas.

I have never advocated for re-distributing wealth equally. As Orwell said, all pigs will be equal, but eventually some will be more equal than others. I only argue for a level playing field that gives everyone an equal chance at a decent life. We are well on our way down the tilted road that Republicans have created to a place where only a few will have that chance and the rest will be at their mercy.

That's not a free market. That's a corrupt market.

Anna, Sounds like you are dissapointed in Obama as well (but just different reasons than mine). Let's work together and hope someone else is President in 2012. Maybe a diffrent leader can make us both happier! :) Have a good night

Anna - Such is the human experience. Some will take risks and succeed, some will be afraid of failure so that they never to their true potential, some will fail and quit and some will keep trying until they discover what they are good at.

One thing is for sure, only the individual will decide on what they can accomplish based on their personal abilities and desires.

Kwmn, I'm not a republican but I know I would like to every thing I can to see Obama fail. Wait, Obama is doing that already, my bad.

it's easier to ask what HAVENT unions ruined or sent overseas

Without even ONE confirmed example I guess you got nothin', eh rob?

The tiresome fallacy and rhetoric that unions send jobs overseas is completely false. There has NEVER been an instance where Unions made the decision to ship jobs overseas. That decision is always made by coporate management. So, when you want to play the blame game for shipping jobs overseas, point your finger at the appropriate party - CORPORATE MANAGEMENT!

And yet private sector union representation has been in decline since the 60's and 70's.

Whatever is one to do when quality and value don't line up with the expectations of the consumer?

Wasn't there once a company motto that promotted "quality is job 1"?