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Subscribe to RSSNot surprisingly, House Republicans and the Obama White House have two different versions of today's White House meeting on the debt ceiling.
Per a GOP aide, President Obama gave opening remarks, followed by House Speaker John Boehner and a few other House Republican members. Then House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan spoke. "Hey, I'm that Ryan guy," he said.
Ryan then stated that leaders can either exacerbate the problem -- or solve it. He continued, per the GOP aide, that the year started well (with the Bush tax cuts and the continuing resolution). Then came Obama's speech, where he blasted the House Republican budget -- written by Ryan -- including its overhaul of Medicare. "It's a signal to your party to turn it on, and to us that you are thinking about 2012."
Ryan argued that the House budget plan doesn't turn Medicare into a voucher program -- it's a subsidy. And seniors would deal directly with Medicare, not private insurance companies.
And, according to this Republican, Ryan concluded, "Leaders have to lead, and you haven't done it yet." House Republicans then gave Ryan a standing ovation.
However, in a stakeout after the meeting, Ryan noted, "That's not exactly what I said," per NBC's Mike Viqueira. We've got to get our spending under control," he said. "We have to deal with this. If we try to demagogue each other, then we're not applying political leadership."
A White House source has a different version of events:
[Ryan] was very nervous and defensive. POTUS pointed out that he disagreed with Ryan's plan because he didn't think we should change Medicare fundamentally to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. And that both sides shouldn't demagogue, which is something he knows something about since he has been called the "job killing, death panel, probably-wasn't-born-here president."
Leave a Comment:
"..both sides shouldn't demagogue, which is something he knows something about since he has been called the "job killing, death panel, probably-wasn't-born-here president."
Obama 's still whining about birthers...how pathetic. The GOP politicians didnt care a whit about the birther issue.
Obama's party is running TV commercials showing granny thrown over a cliff. They have no scruples.
You shouldn't have given him ammunition if that's how you feel. Sucks that all the vitriol is coming back to bite you in the ass but i have no sympathy for you. NONE.
We learned our lesson WELL from the tea baggers with their Death Panel bullsh!t!
One other thing I learned about baggers & birthers, they don't like it much when Democrats hit back!
Then again, that's how bullies respond! lol
You all remind me of paper tigers!
Sorry Bobby, thats not true. The bed is made, now it is time to lie in it!
That's a funny ad and it sums up the truth: the GOP ala Ryan is throwing granny and gramps over the cliff. Republicans are desperate by claiming democrats are being unfair and demagoguing--death panels, government take over, killing grandma, cutting medicare, socialist agenda, job killing health care, job killing (insert noun)--all terms used so frequently by republicans that people believed it. Now it's the democrats turn, the right gets no mercy from me.
"Obama's party is running TV commercials showing granny thrown over a cliff. They have no scruples."
No they aren't. Some group of activists put together that ad, at no point in time did the Democratic party pay for the ad to be aired. As far as I know that ad was internet only, it didn't get airtime anywhere. For that matter, it was never supposed to. If it were it would be 30 seconds long, not a minute 20 seconds.
Birthers talked about the BC non-issue for 2 years (some are STILL talking about it), so I figure President Obama has about 1 year, 11 months left to make fun of it.
What Obama and the Democrats really want to do is negotiate a deal with the Republicans in private that cuts spending by about a trillion dollars and raises taxes a little, and then claim the Republicans "Put a gun to our head" and made them do it. The last thing the Democrats want to do is come up with their own budget/plan and try and sell it to America, because it will be nothing but raising taxes, borrowing and spending more money, and ignoring/kicking the problems of the country down the road for another year. Economic leadership is not something the Democrats do well.
Sure - you go Obama, make as much fun as you want. Never you mind that your totally awesome budget got shot down in a unanimous, bi-partisan vote.
Never mind that medicare is insolvent, and so is the country. Hey, the debt ceiling did not get raised. Infact 318 House members told you to pound sand, and last time I checked there just were not that many republicans.
Yep, now's the time for funny making, happy good times. Reid has said flat out there will be no democratic budget. Obama's was a total joke. Unemployment is going up.
Durable goods sales going down, gas and food going up.
Good times, right Feisty?
DrDrGimmetheNews
Birthers talked about the BC non-issue for 2 years (some are STILL talking about it), so I figure President Obama has about 1 year, 11 months left to make fun of it.
Just because birthers and baggers had no plans all they could talk about was Kenyan born, Muslim, destroying American, blah blah blah.
Really they need to get a brand new bag.
That's only true in the Red State Echo Chamber in which you live in. In reality (here on Earth) Republicans are the "tax and spend" Party. Just look up deficit spending on Wikipedia and you can see the numbers per administration. Then do some research and see how many times Republicans have raised taxes.
Also, in reality Republicans suck at national security--the GOP brought us the Iraq invasion/occupation/nation-buliding SNAFU. President Obama got bin Laden. As always, the Dems have to clean up the GOP mess whether it's unnecessary wars that waste blood, treasure and respect, or whether it's the Great Recession.
But thanks for the good laugh.
JoAnnaSmith1
What Obama and the Democrats really want to do is negotiate a deal with the Republicans in private that cuts spending by about a trillion dollars and raises taxes a little, and then claim the Republicans "Put a gun to our head" and made them do it.
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Actually, I hope that's the outcome; cut a trillion from the budget and raise taxes back to the Clinton era. He should have done nothing and let the taxes revert in the first place. No one but dems buy into the "put a gun to the head" soundbite anyway. I would hope he wants to reach beyond the dem base and snatch back a few actual lefties.
Thank god for the dems. But how come so many libbies around here hold them in such low regard?
So how come they can't come up with and pass a budget? If they are totally awesome and all. And remind me, did they not enjoy a super majority a while back? When they had that super majority did they pass a super awesome budget?
Huh, Tp, that's a little odd, isn't it?
Indy,
Tax rate of 38% like Clinton?
Clinton's revenues were 19% of GDP, the highest post WW II.
Only problem is Obama is not as smart as Clinton.
Clinton gave up the job crippling national health.
Clinton also worked with a Republican House and Senate and together they held spending to 19% of GDP.
Balanced budgets restore confidence. Confidence breeds business growth. Business growth breeds more jobs and more revenue.
Obama?
Doesn't have a community organizing clue. Couldn't even put together a plan that would get one Democrat vote. For Commerce Secretary ...... puts up an environmentalist, the antithesis of what is needed. Destroys the energy industry ....... how do you grow an economy when you suck the life blood out of it? The EPA over regulation ......on and on. A stimulus that was an epic failure ......that not only didn't hold unemployment at 8%, actually cost a net loss in jobs, it cost an additional $43 billion and still counting. OE1 and QE2 that cost over a trillion and did nothing but sack the value of the greenback and cause inflated prices for oil, gas, food and everything else. Unemployment still at 9%, consumer confidence at 60%! Housing prices still falling .........
Obama is no Clinton.
Clinton at least realized when he was losing and changed.
Obama is a narcissist that believes he can bullsh!t the independents.
Correction for post #1.13.
"did nothing" is inaccurate ....... Obama's rich buddies on Wall Street did make a ton.
I thought you were still watching Palin's moves and spanking yourself Spanky, welcome back.
Hey Spanky. I guess your name says it all, now just because that's what you're into it doesn't mean that you and your cohorts have to drag the rest of us with you. You guys keep on shooting your selves in the foot, you guys got us into this mess; enough with the Bullsh! T! The simple true is that George the Dumb-Ass Bush took the white house and our country in top shape! With a surplus!! and idiots like you said nothing when he started he's macabre plan for the destruction of our country, the illegal, unreasonable and unexcused invasion of Iraq supporting the creation of all the mercenary war profiteers like "Black water" while taking for granted our own military, or have you forgotten the deplorable conditions of the hospitals for our poor soldiers? Rat ridden, infections and all sorts of shameless pest crawling on their beds, the walls and everywhere, you guys are shameless! You elected a bunch of criminals to congress they’re hijacked our congress and not letting the president who was elected by a lands slide do the job. Charlatans, Shameless Criminals!!!
x x x x
O O O O to you, StevieO!
Still waiting for GOP to provide jobs. So far they only way they say they can provide jobs is to give MORE tax cuts to the wealthy! Yeah, like that is going to work!
It worked under 8 years of Bush, and now 2 under Obama, didn't it? No, wait..........
Still waiting for the Democrats to come up with a budget. 2nd year in a row they've failed to do so.
California Girl 12345
Still waiting for GOP to provide jobs. So far they only way they say they can provide jobs is to give MORE tax cuts to the wealthy! Yeah, like that is going to work!
JoAnnaSmith1
Still waiting for the Democrats to come up with a budget. 2nd year in a row they've failed to do so.
see Joanna i'm not the only person that keeps saying Jobs Jobs Jobs!!!! so your telling us that the GOP will not create any jobs untill the dems deliver a federal budget ? man, thats out there even for you.
Aww look at Cali Girl and Drive By pretending that the dems are worthless and incapable of doing anything about jobs.
That is what you are saying, right guys? If not the republicans than now one, right Cali Girl?
Jeff- you too? "the GOP will not create jobs until the dems deliver..." Seems like an admission that the dems cannot deliver, no?
You must be so disappointed in Obama and the Democrats! Here they spent all that money, and you didn't get your jobs. And now you're reduced to begging the Republicans to do the job the Democrats haven't done.
It must suck to be you.
Say Jeff - remember way back when Pelosi was in charge?
Yeah, I do too.
Good times. No budget, but good times anyway. What is Nancy up to these days?
You think she took the Weiner picture and gave it to Brietbart?
And it's the first year in a row that it is NOT THEIR JOB to do so. You surely agree with this. Your REAL quandary now is that republicans produced the worst possible budget imaginable and got uniformly shouted down. Didn't see that coming, did you?
Well. That leaves you with two choices -- come up with something else -- apparently unthinkable for republican leadership -- sort of like bidding against yourself -- or have the democrats do it, so you can shift the blame to them. And what really makes you mad is that democrats have decided to leave your side twisting slowly, slowly in the wind.
Karma is a ... isn't it?
Spanky-
Jeff- you too? "the GOP will not create jobs until the dems deliver..." Seems like an admission that the dems cannot deliver, no?
yes, i seem to remember the dem lead whitehouse delivered a withdraw from iraq that the Gop lead whitehouse just could not deliver, yes?
the only thing the GOP can deliver is the manure from the pasture. manure they dropped!!!
Joanna i'm just hoping the GOP does not do a screw job on the middle class as Bush did, sorry you can't change history. and ryans Plan is a bit different, usually the GOP screws the young Middle class familys now these guys are going after the middle class seniors. Joanna GOP crusader
Not their job!? If that's not their job, then what exactly is their job? Petulant children, that's what the Democrats in the Senate are. For some reason Annie you think the Senate rules over the House, tells them what to do. Sorry Annie, that's not the way it works dearie. The House came up with a plan, so whats the Senate's plan hon? The Senate might want to try and get off their fat backsides and get to work. The only twisting going on Annie is with the coward Democrats in the Senate not able to agree on any budget - The Democrats - The party of NO!
That seems to be Obama's course of action, he's now coming up with Version 2.16 of his FY2012 budget, this after Version 1.0 failed to get a single vote in the Senate.
It's sad that the Republicans call their plan a budget plan. All it is, is an attack on the middle class. I know it's not President Obama's nature, but I would like to see him tell these Republicans Bastards to go to hell and force their hand at stalling the debt ceiling raise.
Then we would see who the chicken is.
JoAnnaSmith1
The Senate might want to try and get off their fat backsides and get to work.
ONLY if your guys in the congress get off their pie holes and them send something legit to send to the president.
Come on AM - 'splain it to me too. Not whose job?
Reid said no dem budget. So does that mean the House's auto passes? Of course not, know why?
Oh and hey Anna M - would you agree that Obama's budget was the only thing that got "uniformly shot down?" Of course you would. Kinda got to, right?
Yep - the dems [they do control the house] got a very definite job to do.
So Jeff- you conceded Nancy screwed the budget pooch? Of course you do, but maybe, like AM says, it wasn't her job either.
JoAnnaSmith1
It must suck to be you.
well i'm happy to be me, I'm 49, black, in good health, got a great woman, 4 great kids that are sucessfull code word for, (out of the house, finished college, working on their own) and good friends.
the way you post its not only sucks to be you but down right hard to look in the mirror!
Jeff - cut the carnival barking. The Senate can amend the budget sent them any way they want. They don't though, not their job apparently, at least if you listen to Annie.
It has got to suck to be a Democrat. A bunch of cowards.
JoAnnaSmith1
It has got to suck to be a Democrat.
Now that better,
i was not talking about a budget, i was talking about sending the senate legit stuff that will help create jobs.
see everybody i told you, according to joanna, the GOP will not create jobs untill they get a Budget. sad joanna even for you.
Are you serious, JoAnna (and you, too, Spanky)? It was actually some CONSERVATIVE blogger who took great pains to remind me that the HOUSE is the body that initiates budget and spending bills. Well, republicans control the House, don't they?
Their original pathetic excuse for a plan failed so badly that they all ran away from it like cockroaches from a burning building. Admittedly, it was amusing for a moment or two, but now they need to get another plan -- one that more realistically addressses the real issues, including revenue, and doesn't make scapegoats out of seniors, women, and the poor. Democrats, according to your side, have no obligation to do anything.
If anyone is acting like children, it's republicans. They don't get their way, so they abrogate their responsibility completely and blame the other side. SO typical.
Talk about cowards. The fruit wasn't hanging as low on the tree as you thought it would be, was it?
You think you're all so smart? You want all the credit? So, LEAD, why don't you?
JoAnnaSmith1
Still waiting for the Democrats to come up with a budget. 2nd year in a row they've failed to do so.
Obama's 2011 Budget Proposal: How It's Spent
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html
President Obama's proposed budget for 2012.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget
Which budget are you talking about?
Hey, that was then, this is now. If republican's aren't willing to accept their share of the blame for this economic debacle, then why should Nancy Pelosi be held responsible?
You're in charge now, Spankster. Time to stop hiding behind President Obama's trousers and LEAD.
LoL Look it up.
Well, JoAnna, looks like you can't make up your mind.
And you seem to have missed the point on the vote. It was taken to get the Republicans on record. And it worked. The same way getting the Republicans to go on record as being for the Ryan bill worked. The same way the Republicans voting not to raise the debt ceiling worked.
That last one was clsoe, though. The Republicans had to telegraph to Wall Street that it was NOT a serious vote.
Me in charge AM? No thanks.
Looks like we'll all just have to wait for the implosion of '12. Deficit ought to be at a cool $16.7 Trillion, but no problem. Reid won't even try to pass a budget and Obama's was just a silly failure to lead.
I don't need to lead. See, as it is going here in Cali - it actually has to hit rock bottom before it gets better. It's happening here, and it will happen soon to the Feds. Then there will be no more entitlements - hey will all fail on their own. So no more silliness about grandma.
Given the cost of food these days we are going to have to go Solyent green on grandma's ass. Sorry grandma, but reality is reality. No one wanted to plan, or address entitlements. Too easy to point fingers.
Or maybe all will be well? Maybe the dems will pass a budget. Maybe the post office will not fail next year and Obamacare will be the answer.
Yep, it's going to get mighty ruff for awhile. Wreckovery Summer, part 2.
job1 - budget plans involve numbers, other than campaign rhetoric where are obama and companies budgetary numbers after his last verbal proposal.
Spanky - I would like to think a little more positive than you. As former senator Alan simpson said on bloombergtv recently and I paraphrase... "the American people will stumble through the hard times and the right and left wing politicians will both see thru hindsight on how they have failed. Maybe it is time to stock up on the canned goods and buy a weapon.
Well, I guess that will teach both sides the wisdom -- or lack thereof -- of not having cameras at these kinds of things.
There's just one appropriate response to this: "death panels." Ring a bell, Bob?
So, these are the guys you support? And THEY have scruples? Not hardly. They didn't stop it, either. They cared for it, all right, just as long as they could exploit it.
I don't want to hear another word from you about anyone's "scruples."
I suspect Weiner may be a little [cough, cough] leery about anything to do with cameras.
But hey, the dude is into Ginger Lee, so there is that.
Oh and AM - really, demands about scruples? I had thought you knew better than that.
Well, you can't blame a girl for dreaming, can you, Spanky?
And neither Anthony Weiner nor Ginger Lee is my particular type, but each to his own, I suppose.
So it's back to Medicare, THE issue of 2012.
Ryan can call his plan a subsidy or anything else he wants. Simple fact, Medicare will disappear for those under age 55 under his proposal. All those 54 or younger will be buying insurance from private insurers with a voucher that may not cover the premiums. Windfall profits for insurers and the average citizen gets screwed.
It is amazing to me that with the results in the NY-26 and the results of legitimate polls, the American people have said leave my Medicare alone. Seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
Medicare is already gone, we just have not gotten it yet.
See the American people also like to live well above their means. Too bad for them, those days are over. I hope everybody is prepare to pay their own way, cause it is either that or there will be a revolt - the young will not shoulder this burden without consequence for ever.
Solyent Green - it's people. Scary, yet real. Later grandma.
It is probably also safe to say that once Medicare is killed for those currently under 55, the Republicans will then target those currently over 55 in the name of "fairness."
Good news Al is that by then the dems will be right on board. Or did you already forget the vote total on Obama's budget.
Say Al - you catching all the swirling crap about the Cali bullet train? Oh My, what a disaster.
Funny Sparky that you act as if the only two options for Medicare are:
Why shouldn't an increase in payroll taxes from the current 1.45% on both employers and employees to, say, 2% not be on the table to see what results that brings. Heck, if raising payroll taxes on both employers and employees to the 4-5% range can cover everyone and get rid of the insurance company middleman that add zero value to the product will work, I'm all for that!
Al - as a self-employed person that employs several others I can tell you that it you raise payroll to that degree you will lose a huge amount of jobs.
That's just reality. Bottom line is the future generations would have to pay like 30% payroll to keep up with entitlement demands. You think that'll happen?
Nope - grandma ain't got a prayer, unless someting drastic is done, and right soon.
Raise payroll taxes? Look I'm tired of giving my money to this "government", if thats what you want to call it, and then watching them give it away to lazy a$$ people who just want to sit around and live off the "government" aka my money. Lets pull our heads out of our a$$ and quit pointing fingers back and forth. America is a bunch of lazy people who will take all the handouts they can get
You might collect some taxes from corporations, you might cancel subsidies for the oil companies, you might reign in the insurance companies, you took a trillion from the middles class for Iraq, you took a trillion more for the drug companies, and another trillion to bail out wall street (they were to big to fail which means they were to rich not to be rich anymore so we had to make them rich again). After all that you want you want more by asking us to vote to throw our mothers and fathers to the dogs, and them to vote to throw us to the dogs. It's about time for the 80% that ain't going there to slap some sense into the other 20%, I don't mean actually mean spanking them like a spoiled child I mean it in a political sense. Screw it! If the whole world is going to end unless I give up Granny, then I will just hold Granny's hand and we will ride this damn thing till the freaking wheels come off.
The GOP didn't care about birthers? Ahh, nothing like a little revisionist history. Nor do they care about the grizzly mamas, death panels, or don't shoot, reload catchphrases? Now do they? Your ignorance is too much to reason with. You and your gangster GOP cohorts have run this country into ground. Geez I wonder how we got into this mess? Duh. The genius of your party is that they've gotten all the other morons of this country to vote against their own self interest. I pity you.
Didn't Republicans run for office last election by saying Obama was going to kill Medicare? And didn't they use the 500 billion cut from Medicare Advantage to do so? And doesn't Ryan's plan also include the same 500 billion cut in Medicare Advantage that the ACA has?
Why does the media keep calling Ryan a "fiscal conservative?" Did Ryan vote for Medicare Part D (with no funding mechanism). Did Ryan vote for the Iraq War (with no funding mechanism). Did Ryan vote for the Bush Tax cuts (and what did he say the result of said tax cuts would be?) How can the media let anyone who cast those votes get away with calling themselves "fiscal conservatives?"
I've wondered that for years. They haven't been fiscal conservatives since Ford left office but the media has not noticed it yet.
When Reagan started dryhumping voodoo economics fiscal conservatism died.
Tell me again, did Reagan triple or quadruple the national debt?
Eisenhower refused to lower the top marginal tax rate from 91% if it would ad a penny to the debt, now THAT was a fiscal conservative.
I can't see calling someone a "fiscal conservative" when his budget plan does not actually produce a balanced budget in 20 years.
One phrase that I would like to see eradicated from the American lexicon is "fiscal conservative". This venial, non-sequitur assumption of conservative frugality is by far the most warped perversion of reality I have ever witnessed.
NO REPUBLICAN IN MY TIME SINCE DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER HAS OFFERED AMERICA A BALANCED BUDGET. NONE. EVER.
Republicans had the last balanced budget. Are you sayong Obama is close to a balanced budget ? I don't see it.We (dems) had control of congress from 2006 -2010 we have made zero ground. Housing values still dropping at 5% a year, deficit and debt out of control, we are about to move into another recession,jobs are not being created here in America,fuel prices are out of control, we still don't have a budget in place, Obama is failing US. He promised a lot deliverd a little.
Hillary 2012
If the Republican version is true (a big "if"), Rep. Ryan had no problem accepting the President's invitation to meet and then insulting him. Tells me something about him.
It's not. Ryan does not have that much bravado.
If it is true and he does have that much bravado, in the face of the polling on his plan, then he proves himself to be an arrogant fool.
Yeh, just like obama to invite ryan to obamas 2.0 debt cutting plan at a nationally televised event and then skewer ryan. Such a wonderful man is obama, no spirit of bipartisan leadership and constant campaigning with rhetoric with little to no numbers to back his "visions"
And you libs sit there mesmerized into kowtowing.
You want to talk no numbers to back his vision you must be talking about Paul Ryan's magical plan. You want to talk mesmerized he will be known as the republican Jim Jones as his followers commit mass political suicide.
Forest - I am not going to say that ryans budget plan and deficit reduction plan is 100% acceptable to me, but he did present it in writing the week before obama presented his own 2.0 plan within the context of verbal rhetoric only.
Perhaps you can share with us the details of obamas 2.0 plan in the form of a written proposal with numbers rather than rhetoric.
The purpose of a POTUS is to lead and get the country to work together and move forward. Hardly seems that obama and company is making any effort at bipartisanship, but rather more like "my way or the highway".
So the truth comes out.
I would be willing to bet the POTUS said something that rhymed with "over my dead body" when discussing the destruction of Medicare. Hopefully he digs in and sticks to his guns.
If you want to talk destruction of Medicare talk to a republican,.....like Bill Clinton. Clinton gave us 8 years of republican legislation, and he told Ryan to "call me", if he wanted to talk about how to do it.
I WANT THE DEMOCRATS TO SHOW SOME FIGHT ON THIS ONE!!!
Yes, that bothered me, too, Greg, and the fact that it got glossed over bothers me even more.
So Greg - when is Fiat getting that sweet loan from Chu? Hybrids for all, right?
But, but, what about my Ram truck? I like the viper motor, dammit!
Fight like when they all voted against Obama's budget, or fight like their vote yesterday?
Wait, I know - fight like Little Anthoy's Weiner "those were not my shorts. Oh, you might be able to prove they were? Then I'm not sure."
Yep, dems are good at fighting.
Fight? The Democrats? Obama has already rolled over on Version 1.0 of his FY2012 budget. Now he's doing his "Do-Over" budget, and he'll get that one out for us "real soon".
Harry Reid says he's not even going to bother with a FY2012 budget coming out of the Senate. Some fighter the ex-boxer Harry has turned out to be.
The debt ceiling vote to raise the ceiling without conditions went down with 96 Democrats voting against the measure in the House. I expect Harry won't even bothered to schedule a vote in the Senate, you know, just to see the mood of the country.
Fight. The Democrats? You have to kick them to make them move, otherwise you'd think they were dead.
JoAnna knows all about rolling over and playing dead - just ask her significant other! ;o)
Poor sap!
Feisty, dear, perhaps you can tell us all why you felt the need to insult, or even reference JAS1's significant other.
Perhaps it might have something to do with your simple inability to refute or even discuss the points she raised. You think? Naa, you busting back an insult, to her significant other no less, certainly indicates your intellectual abilities, such as there are. Such as they have been repeatedly demonstrated.
But hey - golden rule and all right old girl? You know treat others how you want to be treated.
Seriously, even you must realize how bad it makes you look.
But hey, I am totally loving the civility which you display.
So very sad, even for you.
You TEll Them Greg! Ryan we don't need your help Obamacare is already on track to destroy Medicare, so butt out.
With the debt ceiling vote defeated it sounds like more politicians are using thier common sense on both sides of the isle. This is a good thing. The last thing we want to do while Obama is still President is increase the debt ceiling with out a budget over haul. Worse case scenario let's kick the can down the road to 2012 and elect a better President.... VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE IN 2012!
".... VOTE FOR COMMON SENSE IN 2012!"
Oh, we will, UAW- we will.
Thanks Drive By we really need a new direction.....
We tried UAW's direction for 8 years and look at the mess those fiscally responsible conservatives created! Sorry, the country can't afford the GOP any more.
Aw, don't mind Drive By - he's got to go listen him some Hannity.
Full report in the morning Buzz? Because I don't watch Fox.
I know right. The ratings just came out. Hannity, because of monkeys like DBO is number 2.
Rachel fell to #12, and poor fat Eddy Schultz is in the tank. Not even liberal women want to deal with a woman-hater like him.
Now if Larry O'D could just get some ratings love.
DBO, you hear that?
Spanky, wasn't that you talking about civility just above...?
Yes fielden I was. Are you inferring that I said something uncivil?
DBO rolls around here all day telling us all how stupid Hannity is. Yet everyday he runs off and listens to Hanity. Never mind that Matthews show is on the radio [I have to assume a man like DBO has satellite radio] and needs rating, bad.
I am advocating for MSNBC. They are in the tank and need help. If that makes me uncivil than so be it. I am passionate about my Maddow/Schultz/O'Donnell. It is my curse. :(
Hey fielden how do you feel about Feisty's crack about JAS1's signifigant Other? You ok with that?
If he/she doesn't do it, I will. But then you never claimed to be classy, did you?
At the rate health insurance keeps going up, no one will be able to afford insurance even with a voucher. And You can bet that if anything like this passes health insurance premiums will skyrocket. Look at what the Medicare prescription plan did for drug prices.
I stopped believing what republicans said years ago; the current crop of GOPTPers has given me no reason to believe they speak truth any more now than they did before.
Now Ryan claims it isn't a voucher, it's a "subsidy". Maybe Paul Ryan, whiz kid of the GOP, can fool a few people but no matter whether he calls it a voucher, a coupon or a subsidy--Ryan and the 235 republicans who voted for his budget, voted to kill medicare as we know it and place seniors at the mercy of private insurance firms.
Many Americans have employer health care and like it. Because the employer can negotiate and bargain based on the number of employees, the premiums are much lower. Medicare provides that same "group" type lower premium rates. People who must buy individual insurance policies pay much higher premiums, often getting less coverage for the higher cost. The minute Paul Ryan and his GOP pals hand a senior citizen a coupon, voucher or subsidy, that senior--age 65--is now going to be buying health insurance as a private citizen, an individual and the cost for it will be prohibitive not just because it's one person but because insurance companies know seniors cost them profits.
Jody,
You realize the current Medicare system is going broke don't you? Why are you Liberals so dead set against fixing something before it's too late.
UAW. Democrats understand perfectly well that medicare needs fixing. What part of that statement made frequently by many democrats do you not comprehend. The difference between democrats "fixing" and republicans "killing" is obvious to those who think for themselves. Have a good evening UAW.
Jody,
You realize the current Medicare system is going broke don't you? Why are you Liberals so dead set against fixing something before it's too late.
.............................................................
Fixing agreed. Dismantling no. It's the difference between a scalpel or a hatchet.
It's not a liberal issue, it's an issue that affects every American.
I don't care what Ryan calls it. I want him to explain to me EXACTLY how he thinks his grandmother who had Alzheimer's disease and received public assistance would be able to purchase the necessary care in the private insurance market, or even purchase it directly, on the flimsy excuse for vouchers or subsidies that he has proposed.
And when on earth is the media finally going to ask him this question?
Medicare is insurance. Insurance is about spreading risk. You can't assume that by passing out a uniform amount of money to everyone that everyone will receive the individualized care they need. To solve that quandary is exactly why the invented insurance in the first place ... and exactly the opposite of the way modern health insurance carriers think. They exist solely to collect premium and, hopefully, not to pay.
Ryan's idea will solve nothing and will throw future generations to the lions.
UAW Pleeeeeeease
Its the newest talking points for democrats. They bash people constantly about the mention of death panels and the fear mongering and turn around and do the same thing. Go to any other blog and its the same thing on both sides. Its pathetic.
Anna, You are right about insurance and some how the USA became the largest insurance company in the world with an Army. Unfortunatley healthcare providers have exploited the near limitless ability the USA Casualty Corp has to pay those claims. Some how we need to level the playing field. One good way is to get the patient more involved in those costs and decsions to spend that money or not. Just giving a person a -0- limit medicare card and saying enjoy is a bad idea for everyone including the patient. I know it scares people to change but let's hope for more change in 2012. The USA is a great country and will continue to be.
AM that is so precious about the future generations.
Yep, we are being totally fair to them now, right? $14, $16, $26 Trillion. Those are some mighty big tigers and bears Anna M.
Kinda sucks to be under 50, staring at that debt.
Unless you speak Chinese, like Bev.
No, No, No Jody they are going to give you a voucher and (get this) it will EMPOWER you to do battle with the insurance companies (even across state lines) for the best deal, and that will cause the free market to lower the cost. That's how the things works. Oh I forgot the best part! Your grandma can do this all by text messaging from her 4G cell phone or I-Pad. I say Great news Grandma you got the power! Grandma says whaaaat you brought flowers. Oh Jody's right it's not gonna happen.
Sorry this may have got posted somewhere else as well
Seems that everyone is forgetting that regardless of party, everyone is going to die. If one looks at the entire population healthcare risks can be spread out over a large base. Unfortunately, the base for those 65 and older is one of decreasing size, increasing longevity (with minimal $$$ contributions to medicare) and ever increasing risk and costs.
Don't think for a moment that the government (R or L) won't be putting more limits on what it will pay for and for how much.
The GOP is lieing. Again!
Water is wet. Again!
Ryan was nervous. McConnell is nervous. Boehner will be nervous.
Silly Sarah has always been nervous that she won't get paid.
Trump is nervous that he won't find a spot light to stand in.
Michelle Bachmann is afraid she will never meet a microphone she can't try to swallow.
Cain is not nervous since he of Godfather's pizza fame need not be.
T-PAW is nervous that he'll win and have to work the miracle he is promising.
Guilianni is afraid we will all forget 9/11 (which he mentions every 12th step).
We won't; even without his prompting.
Romney isn't nervous (he's got the cash) unless he is forced to talk about Romneycare.
That Santorum guy..he should be nervous with all that talk about animal husbandry of the icky sort.
Huntsman is too nervous to run (amongst a slew of others) but will look toward 2016 for his best chance.
Anyone I missed? The whole field are a bunch a nervous nancies trying to blame others for the mess they've gotten themselves into by handing the party reigns over to the hijacking teabuggers.
I'd be nervous too if I were standing with the group of bullies trying to make everyone on the playground play by their self-favoring rules. THEN the only ADULT, our President, in the discussion walks in and state facts they run crying to the media that LEADERSHIP is called for and the president just isn't doing that.
On matters of the purse. Congress has that responsibility. Obama has said what is and isn't acceptable to him. The "details", as W used to called them (HE didn't do details, you know), would be negotiated under 'normal circumstances but this crowd refuses to negotiate. They come out with a position and say "your either with us or against us".
When will they stand with the American middle class? When will WE be the focus of their effort. When will they get nervous about US ALL? NEVER. They think they have the whole country on thin ice and do not realize that the thin ice heard cracking is indeed RIGHT under their feet.
Finally..."scruples"....that's funny now...the right wing of the Republican Party gave those up for Lent a few decades back and never went back to 'em. Today's mess is proof of such.
Look around ya'self Bobbers, y'all reap what ya sow there, buddy. Scruples. hahahahahahahahahahhahaha. You made me guffaw, Bro!
Now that is a big ole Texas size portion of the truth fellers.
The G.O.P is at it again. Take care of the rich and let the old, poor, and middle class be scapegoated. Seniors will be living in dumpsters. But alas there is a remedy. Kick the REPUBLICANS OUT. Ryan has no idea what survival is like for us old folks. We are paying for the misguided Bush/Cheney spending to fight a war that was unnecessary. And tax cuts for the Wealthy (what a joke). Mr Ryan has a sure place in hell waiting for him. Its time the middle class, seniors, poor and the under 55 generation make their voices heard. The House Republicans remind me of the French Aristocrats several centuries ago and we all know what happened to them.
The pundits keep telling us how brave Ryan is, but he does not even have the courage to stand by his own words.
There is the Republican version on one side, and the Truth on the other.
The truth is, Republicans want to repeal Medicare for future seniors to give more tax cuts to the wealthy.
If all you have left to cut is Medicare, then taxes need to be raised.
We were told how lowering taxes would trickle down to us prosperity, but after 30 years of piling on Republican debt, it hasn't worked.
Results Matter.
Normalized to 1979, the top 1% have seen their share of America's income more than double. The bottom 90% have seen their portion shrink.
Source: Afferent Input
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4
According to thisCBO report dated January 2001,
We were on track to eliminate our debt by 2012.
From 2002 through 2011, CBO projects rising surpluses under current policies. Total budget surpluses, by CBO's estimates, would grow from about 3 percent to more than 5 percent of GDP, and on-budget surpluses would climb from over 1 percent to more than 3 percent (see Table 1-2).(3) Under current policies, total surpluses would accumulate to an estimated $2 trillion over the next five years and $5.6 trillion over the coming decade, and would be sufficient by 2006 to pay off all publicly held debt that is available for redemption.
Within those totals, on-budget surpluses would climb to nearly $1 trillion over the next five years and about $3.1 trillion over the 2002-2011 period; five-year and 10-year totals for off-budget surpluses would be about $1 trillion and about $2.5 trillion, respectively. Off-budget surpluses alone would be sufficient to eliminate the available debt by the end of the 10-year period.
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=2727&type=0&sequence=2
Ronald Reagan made a bet and cut the top rate of taxes in half. It hasn't worked.
Now, Republicans want to take out their failed policy on the Middle Class and Poor, just like we bailed out the Banks for their failures due to Republican deregulation.
Republicans love to privatize the profits and socialize the losses. When they loose, we loose, and they loose a lot. If Tax cuts were the answer then we should have prosperity after the past Republican controlled decade.
The wealthy who had their taxes cut in half, have doubled their wealth, increased our national debt to 14 trillion now, while the Middle Class has lost economic ground.
It is past time to reverse that trend and go back to what worked for America's Middle Class:
Repeal ALL the Bush Tax cuts = 4 trillion over 10 years.
Repeal the Reagan top rate tax cuts (double the top rate) = 4 trillion over 10 years.
Repeal NAFTA = Keep Middle Class jobs in America and rebuild the Middle Class tax base.
Since NAFTA (Hear that Giant Sucking Sound Yet?):
The following are 19 facts about the deindustrialization of America that will blow your mind....
#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001.
#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.
8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/19-facts-about-the-deindustrialization-of-america-that-will-blow-your-mind
Great solution to world poverty: http://mail.europenews.dk/en/node/43864
http://mail.europenews.dk/en/node/43864
Why have we not seen a plan from the Obama administration or the democrats in congress about the upcoming 2012 budget and raising the debt ceiling? Remember Obama's budget didn't get one vote in the Senate. Republicans are demanding that there be cuts in spending in order to get an increase in the debt ceiling, however, the democrats won't come up with anything except their favorite raise taxes on the rich. Even if taxes were to go back to the Clinton years, it still would not dent the deficit. I would agree to some tax increases but only after congress and the president show me they are responsible enough to start cutting first. Cut to the bare bones and do not start anymore spending programs. If it means abolishing some worthless departments and agencies so be it.
What is that saying - As goes California, so go the nation. Truer words were never spoken.
You would agree? You don't know jack. Look at history.
Big cuts in spending this year will trigger a double dip. 1937 all over again.
You don't cut spending in a recession and you don't cut taxes during war. Rupublicans made the stupid 1st mistake and now the want the Democrats in on it when they make the 2nd huge mistake.
Ward, What recession, If I remember right Obama declared the recession over in June 2009. If you don't have the money to spend then you have to cut something in order to balance the budget.
sfcret,
He should have said that it is a bad idea to cut spending while the economy is still recovering from a recession or depression.
Also our President did not declare the recession was over. Recessions are defined by strict economic
data, both the beginning and ending.
"If I remember right Obama declared the recession over in June 2009."
You remember wrong. Economists declared the recession over then, not President Obama. http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/20/news/economy/recession_over/index.htm
Obama did not declare recession over, but he defended it against business owners who said the recession was still going. the recession is over it's been over since 2009. So this new recession looming is ALL OBAMA.
Time 4,
Actually it is on the Teapublicans and Blue Dog Dems that were afraid to spend more for the recovery. Most all economists said we needed a 2 trillion dollar stimulus not the less that one trillion we got.
I’ll give you that it wasn’t spent most effectively. There should have been a lot more spent on the infrastructure. We only spent 9% of the stimulus money on infrastructure. It should have been much more – more like $500 billion or over 1 trillion if we got the 2 trillion needed.
To those who say Obama did not declare the recession over I agree except he did quote the economists and since he likes to take credit for everything he wanted to take credit for the end of recession. When he supports the fact that the recession ended was basically the same as declaring it.
Dennis, there wasn't even a tea party at the time the Obama administration shoved the stimulus bill down the peoples throat. The stimulus bill wasted more money on congressional members pork than it did on anything else. You liberals are all the same, tax more and spend more, we could have spent 2 trillion and nothing would have changed. The economist that you and the left like to cite were people like Krugman and other left leaning economist that think it's the governments responsibility to take care of everything. The government can not spend it's way out of a recession, only the private sector can do that.
“The government can not spend it's way out of a recession, only the private sector can do that.”
But that is exactly what Reagan did – nearly doubling the National debt. And before you say “with tax cuts”, 30% of the stimulus money was tax cuts.
There was one big difference, Reagan's policies worked, Obama's didn't. Reagan knew what he was doing and Obama had no idea what he was doing and was flying by the seat of his pants and listening to his left wing socialist buddies. Reagan made things better and instilled a sense of pride in America and Obama has made things worse and divided the country. During the 80s people were more inclined to take care of themselves and not depend so much on the federal government. Deficit spending is not all evil if it is properly spent, but if wasted like Obama's then it creates more problems as we can now see.
There was one big difference, Reagan's policies worked, Obama's didn't. Just your opinion – nothing to back that up.
Reagan knew what he was doing and Obama had no idea what he was doing and was flying by the seat of
his pants and listening to his left wing socialist buddies. Again just your opinion.
Reagan made things better and instilled a sense of pride in America and Obama has made things
worse and divided the country. It was the Party of NO that divided this country with all their claims about our President not being a real American,
During the 80s people were more inclined to take care of themselves and not depend so much on
the federal government. Got any facts to back that up??
Deficit spending is not all evil if it is properly spent, but if wasted like Obama's then it
creates more problems as we can now see. Now here are a couple big differences: Taxes when Reagan took over were high allowing him to cut them with enough left to run the Government but after Bush 43 tax cuts there was little left to cut. The other game changer is that under Reagan Manufacturing and Export industries were 3 time what they are today as a percent of GDP.
Yes, they are my opinions and based on the reality of what I know and saw. (I spent 20 yrs U.S. Army ((1960-1980)) and 15 yrs with the local city fire department (1981-1996) and from 1996 to present, my own real estate business. It was Obama and his ego and "I know better" attitude that divided this country. (Most republicans, except for a few nut cases agreed and never doubted Obama was born in Hawaii.) It was Obama that forced the stimulus bill and the HCR down peoples throats and both are budget and deficit breakers. Remember it was Reagan that had to rebuild the military after Carter almost ruined it. Dennis you can make all the excuses you want for Obama but they are just your opinions. Obama could have refused to extend the "so called Bush tax cuts."
(Most republicans, except for a few nut cases agreed and never doubted Obama was born in Hawaii.) Except a few nutcases – Really!! No one stood up and told others that our President was a citizen. And that “few” was 57% of Republicans.
I spent all of the 80’s working as a planning manager for a mid-sized multi-national company and watched the destruction of American jobs as our company, along with many others, started to outsource manufacturing jobs to Mexico and Europe.
Given your dates we are about the same age, near 70. What you should have observed is that how great things were, financially, during the 50's and 60's. You also point at Carter as the creator of many problems. What have you missed? Oil !!
We continue to have bad times that can be tied to oil prices and the major economic factor with oil was when we went for an exporter to an importer … in the mid-70's. Everything has been sliding down hill since.
What we need is a plan to fix the dependence problem we have with oil.
Dennis, you must have gotten that 57% figure from some left wing poll. I have heard a lot of republicans stand up and say Obama was a U.S. Citizen and born in Hawaii, including Most established republicans. I also have heard a lot of democrats mostly left wing nuts say that the 9-11 attack was a Bush/Cheney inside job and was set up by them. Both parties have their nuts.
We do need to increase taxes on the rich. AND cut spending AND lower the debt ceiling And cut social security and medicare AND fire a bunch of government employees AND cut foreign aid AND cut welfare AND cut the IRS AND reverse Obamacare AND reverse the Bush tax cuts AND stop the welfare AND...... Come on people quit bytching about every little thing and make your government understand.
Beverly' always nice to hear a libby racist chime in.
oh no, if we can drive all of the rich out of the country, then we could end up with the obama/union dream, no thanks.
One phrase that I would like to see eradicated from the American lexicon is "fiscal conservative". This venial, non-sequitur assumption of conservative frugality is by far the most warped perversion of reality I have ever witnessed.
NO REPUBLICAN IN MY TIME SINCE DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER HAS OFFERED AMERICA A BALANCED BUDGET. NONE. EVER.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
just a republican house and senate majority under Clinton
Hey Spanky ( the answer to Beavis and Butthead on here) Tell me how many jobs will killing medicare create? How many will letting the US default on The debt create? How many will getting rid of Planned Parenthood create?Now tell me what the Republican mantra was about creating jobs? Medicare is the Democratic plan and it will defeat the Republicans as soundly as it did in New York's 26 as long as Democrats do not mess up as they are prone to do.
Which one is Spanky, Beavis or Butthead?
No, No, No Jody they are going to give you a voucher and (get this) it will EMPOWER you to do battle with the insurance companies (even across state lines) for the best deal, and that will cause the free market to lower the cost. That's how the things works. Oh I forgot the best part! Your grandma can do this all by text messaging from her 4G cell phone or I-Pad. I say Great news Grandma you got the power! Grandma says whaaaat you brought flowers. Oh Jody's right it's not gonna happen.