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Subscribe to RSSBoth political parties are continuing to spin the upcoming vote to raise the debt ceiling.
House Republicans, for instance, are holding a test vote today to demonstrate that a "clean" debt-ceiling measure -- that is, one without attached spending cuts -- doesn't have enough support to pass Congress. Democrats and liberals are calling the vote a political ploy.
Meanwhile, the Obama White House is invoking Ronald Reagan to make its case that raising the debt ceiling is a normal practice --which the conservative icon once pursued.
The White House has distributed a letter, dated Nov. 16, 1983, from Reagan to then-Senate Majority Leader Howard Baker (R-TN).
"This letter is to ask for your help and support, and that of your colleagues, in the passage of an increase in the limit on the public debt," Reagan writes in it. "Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The Nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass this legislation before the Congress adjourns."
Of course, it was easier for a Republican president to ask a Republican Senate majority leader to help with this vote. It's harder for a Democratic president asking a GOP-controlled House of Representatives.
Below is the full Reagan letter to Baker.
November 16, 1983
Dear Howard:
This letter is to ask for your help and support, and that of your colleagues, in the passage of an increase in the limit on the public debt.
As Secretary Regan has told you, the Treasury's cash balances have reached a dangerously low point. Henceforth, the Treasury Department cannot guarantee that the Federal Government will have sufficient cash on any one day to meet all of its mandated expenses, and thus the United States could be forced to default on its obligations for the first time in its history.
This country now possesses the strongest credit in the world. The full consequences of a default -- or even the serious prospect of default -- by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The Nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass this legislation before the Congress adjourns.
I want to thank you for your immediate attention to this urgent problem and for your assistance in passing an extension of the debt ceiling.
Sincerely,
Ronald Reagan
Leave a Comment:
Republicans are playing a dangerous game with our economy just to score political points. Funny, they weren't concerned about deficits when they cut taxes and pursued two wars at the same time. How much did it cost to remove Saddam? How much was lost to fraud and mismanagement?
Amy - we are a two party system, where were your beloved democrats?
Indeed they are Amy!
Sadly, EVERYTHING is a game with these fools!
As Mitch McConnell said himself, our only GOAL is to ensure President Obama is a one term President!
They could care less about this country, and those who aren't a part of their cushy 2% club!!!
Amy, do you find it somewhat problematic that there exists a debt of $14.3 Trillion? Raising the ceiling does nothing to address the actual problem - too much debt.
Maybe you don't have kids and don't care how bad we are making it for them. That's just cold Amy. Cold.
And say Amy, Obama has been the pres for over two years. Has he reduced war costs? Why no, he has jacked them up and we are still at it in Libya. Amy, the 60 day war power thing-y is over. Are you ok with this illegal use of the war powers by Obama?
Amy, Obama cuts taxes last December. Does he bear no responsibility?
So Amy - I know you cannot respond, but seriously, who is playing the dangerous game? Come on, you know. As totally awesome as the are those evil republicans are they only control the House. Yet the totally cool and heroic dems control the Senate and the White house. Games?
Amy?
And Hey Amy - remember all the way back to when Obamacare got signed into law? He said he, and Sheriff Joe B. were going to root out all that fraud and abuse. How's that coming? They have had well over a year. Have they gotten it all?
Amy, have they gotten ANY?
Of course to counter Obama, the Republicans pointed out the following quote:
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,” he said. “It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.” - Sen Barack Obama, March/2006
Cowed by the argument that not doing those things would be being "weak" on national security and "necessary" given the recession. Also, during the period, Democrats were not nearly as filibuster-happy as the Republicans are now. So would those things have occurred without Republican intimidation...Probably not, but of course engaging in counterfactuals isn't really productive.
However, Amy's post focused on the Republican side of the equation and I see you don't want to touch that.
The White House should have Invoked President Obama's words when he was a Senator as the Reason not to raise the Debt Ceiling. But then again Who would expect the Incompetent that is in the White House to actually Stand by what he Believes.
Amy - The federal government of today is spending the money of the future taxpayers of tomorrow. Essentially we're stealing from our very own children to pay for our mores of today. Many Liberals like the idea of the government deficit spends to the tune of $1+ trillion every year. How exactly do you justify that stance for more and more spending? How compassionate is it to steal from our very children because we won't stop the spending. Liberals of today are truly the "Everything is about ME!" generation.
Jason - the reality of it all is that on this board it is the left wingnuts that want to blame the right for all that ails the US. Maybe the left are vampires who cannot see their own reflection in the mirror as to their part.
Spanky,
“Amy, do you find it somewhat problematic that there exists a debt of $14.3 Trillion? Raising the
ceiling does nothing to address the actual problem - too much debt.”
Then why did the House pass the Ryan budget that increases the National debt by trillions?
Spanky,
I hate to cut and paste, but you must have missed this news:
The U.S. government on Thursday charged 111 doctors, nurses and other defendants with Medicare crime schemes that exceeded $225 million in false billings, the largest health care fraud crackdown so far....
Medicare reform represented a key part of the sweeping year-old health care law championed by Democratic President Barack Obama, but opposed by many Republicans in Congress.....
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/17/us-usa-healthcare-fraud-idUSTRE71G6U620110217
Great news! That will reduce the FY2011 deficit spending by .00015%.
But it seems like we'll need a little extra sense of purpose to reduce the deficit for real.
Not as awesome as the last batch of Republicans who, although in the minority in the House and the Senate, forced the Democrats to include an individual mandate in HCR and extend the Bush tax rates.
These current Republicans are only half as awesome.
That is great news about the fraud Amy, but seriously how can you in good faith blame just republicans?
The dems are there, and with greater numbers. And as noted, many of them are flatly against raising the ceiling.
You know like Obama was, in 2007, before he wasn't, now.
I agree 100% with Obama - what we got here is a failure of leadership[.
Dennis - maybe the Ryan budget is not the answer. But something must be done or these programs will self terminate. So Dennis where is the democrat alternative? Obama's budget got punched - 100% vote against.
And now we got Reid saying the senate dems will not produce a budget. Dennis, is that ok with you.
Or Dennis is that more evidence that Obama was right - failure to lead?
Amy,
Both parties are playing this game. If any of you knew any thing about Reagan, then you would know he did this because he could not get the Dem's to cut spending and he really did not want the country to fail.
But, there are a couple of other things Reagan did that I don't like.
1. Gave 2 million illegals amnasty. This one he made a bargain with the devil. The Dem held congress told reagan that if he gives this amnasty, they will secure the border. The Dems lied, again.
2. The Dem held congress told reagan if he raises taxes, they would cut spending. For every dollar he raised in taxes, they would cut from spending. The Dems lied, again.
Government shutdown and sending home federal employees. Washington would have to place nonessential government employees on leave, sending millions of federal workers home until the debt situation is resolved.
Default on existing debt. The government starts out in deficit before it can even pay interest on current Treasuries or pay for the bonds as they reach maturity. That means that the US has to borrow more money just to pay off existing debts, and without raising the ceiling, the government would default on most of its existing debt obligations. Some people have gone so far as to describe the US economy as a giant Ponzi scheme, and if the instability were exposed, citizens and other governments would quickly lose faith in the US government. China and many other nations holding our debt are already afraid that we’re about to default. Lack of trust would make lenders less likely to provide funds in the future, seriously damaging our trading position with the rest of the world. Interest rates would skyrocket if the nation’s credit rating dropped.
Economic repercussions. If the government’s cash flow got cut off, then Congress would have to either double taxes or slash the budget by more than half. Either choice would have a devastating effect on the economy, undoing the recent recovery efforts. In addition to rising interest rates, we’d face a damaged stock market and higher unemployment, sending a shock wave of economic turmoil through the rest of the world.
Per Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Budget, a bipartisan group that advocated cutting the debt, responded to the question “What would happen if Congress doesn’t raise the debt ceiling by Aug. 2 or whenever Treasury exhausts all its short-options? Response: “Things would get ugly fast. When bills became due, we could not pay all of them. If that happens, you shake up markets as you’ve never seen before…… It’s inconceivable we would willingly walk ourselves over the cliff.”
If investors become convinced the US will renege on its debts, they’ll sell Treasurys to avoid the risk that the government might not make good on them. That would drive Treasury prices down and push interest rates up, raising the borrowing costs on everything from mortgages to cars. Higher rates would likely slow the economy.
Republicans are trying their very best to force failure on America. That's what their leader Mitch McConnell promised, and that's exactly what they're doing and nothing else.
Maybe right wing extremist GOP supporters want to pretend they don't see it, but the rest of the American People certainly do.
Spanky,
“Dennis - maybe the Ryan budget is not the answer.But something must be done or these programs will self terminate. So Dennis where is the democrat alternative? Obama's budget got punched - 100% vote
against.”
“And now we got Reid saying the senate dems will not produce a budget. Dennis, is that ok with you. Or Dennis is that more evidence that Obama was right - failure to lead?”
The Dems do not need to produce a budget and why should they as long as Teapublicans won’t produce a reasonable budget? There a many other ways to fund Medicare, Medicaid and SS but Teapublicans won’t propose these options to the Americans.
By the Constitution it is the responsibility of the House to produce a budget. The Senate voted on and rejected the House budget so now it is up to the House to produce another budget and see if the Senate will accept the new one.
On the President’s budget, the Teapublicans wanted a vote on it so they could get on the record the names of Dems that voted for it – they got zero names!!!
Interesting! The FR libs are anti-Reagan for any reason. Isn't Obama using "Reagan" as an example tantamount to Obama being a traitor to all that the FR libs hold dear to their hearts? Well let the libs spin this one.
Good choice. President Reagan is certainly the greatest President of modern times.
You must have been first in line for the trickle down, most of us are still waiting.
Barb H - you fail to realize that trickle down economics were in place well before reagan, kennedy, FDR and lincoln. It is what will fuel our recovery. The only stumbling block has been the marketing of greed as being a good thing from the minimum wage worker on thru many of the wealthiest.
Ever listen to the constant media barrage touting you deserve this, you deserve that....
BTW - sorry to see that you are still waiting, perhaps if you sent out some ships, one of them might come in. Waiting for a politician to deliver will lead to a long wait.
JoAnnaSmith1 - Reagan is the greatest president of modern time???? Hah!! Your medication's not working for you anymore. Ronald Reagan has to be the worst president ever except maybe for Hoover. It's Reagan's policies that have brought this country to the brink of economic collapse. Republcians worshiping at the feet of that fool have brought this country to ruin in just a few short decades. 'Ol Ronnie government is never the answer Reagan....your hero. Sure had you fooled didn't he?
Good one laurie. Loved how you whizzed right past Carter.
Malaise. Kinda like what we have going on right now.
Welcome back Mr. Carter.
So if this is true, why is Obama invoking Reagan to make his case?
Laurie - what ignorance you display. Reagan had to work with a democrat controlled congress 6 of the 8 years he was in office. Doesn't congress set the fiscal agenda? at least they did thru 2008. Other than the 2009 stimulus and dec 2010 tax cuts and some business friendly incentives what fiscal policies have obama and company come up with.
BTW - isn't the right considered business friendly? ergo Obamas tax concessions are really the implementation of a republican plan.
laurie-480643, put the cool-aid down and step away from it.
JoAnnaSmith1, the libs gave to invoke some one like Reagon becuase they know they are on a sinking ship and will lose come Nov 2012.
I say, we, the American people, put the libs where they belong, on the trash heap of history and teach are kids what liberalizm really does to a country.
Look at europe, they tryed the libs way, now they see that it did not work and is only bankrupting the country so they are moving away from it while Obama is speeding head long in to it.
The only thing this President will be known for is being the first black president, nothing else. He will fall by the way side as did jimmy carter.
Q: Why are Dems quoting Reagan?
A: Just as a broken watch is correct twice a day, Reagan was correct twice in his presidency
I went to a spooky Republican psychic, "Taxcutta the All Knowing" to invoke the spirit of Ronald Reagan, we made contact through her crystal ball but his spirit kept fading in and out. I said "whats wrong with your crystal ball" and she said "nothing it works fine, he's still senile.
F.G. Always holding true to moronic statements with no content. What's next going after the hole in Lincolns head?
It's OK for the GOP to be proud of and love Reagan. But somehow it's not OK for the Democrats to be proud of and love Obama.
But that was then and this is now...
I appreciate the President's attempt to use a logical argument -- if only he were addressing a logical body.
Great post, Ursula.
ursula - so true, now if only obama and congress knew what "logic" was.
Logic dictates that we work together to fix our economy. Unfortunately for us today, only kennedy's, M.L. Kings and Reagan's belief in America going forward relied on us having a dream and a goal to reach for.
Ursula - how many dems are opposed to raising the debt ceiling?
You do know that it is not zero?
Why not just abolish the ceiling? What the heck, right libbie?
"Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and on the value of the dollar in exchange markets."
Spanky, I don't know about you, but my 401K took a nose-dive a couple of years ago because of an unstable financial market. Do you really want to go there again?
Ursula - We are moving in that direction again, regardless of whether the debt limit is passed or not.
As former Senator Simpson remarked last week. Both parties will learn a lesson and the American people will struugle through it.
You both are right on many levels but neither party is working together anymore,this is a two party system for blame too. I think we need to raise the debt ceiling but whats wrong with actually being able to pay back our debt? We now are giving 2 Bil to Egypt, we can't afford to borrow more money to loan more money. When you are this far in debt it's a piss poor business model.
Since March 1962, the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, according to the Congressional Research Service. Ten of those times have occurred since 2001. Seven times under Bush.
If the debt ceiling is not raised, Treasury would not have authority to borrow any more money. And that can be a problem since the government borrows to make up the difference between what it spends and what it takes in. It uses that borrowed money to help fund operations and pay creditors.
Geithner's critics say he could prevent default by simply paying the interest due to bondholders.
But since average spending -- minus interest -- outpaces revenue by about $118 billion a month, Geithner won't be able to pay all the country's bills.
That means he will have to pick and choose who to pay and who to put off every day. And there's no guarantee that paying interest while shirking other legal obligations will protect the country from the perception of default.
Geithner said it would be akin to a homeowner who pays his mortgage but puts off his car loan, credit cards, insurance premiums and utilities. The mortgage is taken care of, but the homeowner's credit could still be damaged.
Ultimately, if lawmakers fail to raise the ceiling this year, they will have two choices, both awful.
They could either cut spending or raise taxes by several hundred billion dollars just to get through Sept. 30, which is the end of the fiscal year. Or they could acknowledge that the country would be unable to pay what it owes in full and the United States could effectively default on some of its obligations.
The first option would be impossible to execute without serious economic repercussions.
And the second option could cripple the economy and send world markets into a tailspin.
"Not only the default but efforts to resolve it would arguably have negative repercussions on both domestic and international financial markets and economies," according to the CRS.
At a minimum, a default could hurt U.S. bonds, the dollar and investors' portfolios.
Marx,
While what you wrote is correct, the repubs are against raising the limit, they just want done in a responsible matter by cutting spending. If we don't starting cutting, this will go on and on until the dept is so high we will never get it paid and we will be a country living on borrowed money.
IS that what you want to hand over to future generations of americans.
sonmanvb..
While what you wrote is correct, the repubs are against raising the limit, they just want done in a responsible matter by cutting spending...
That's where we differ. We all need to accept that we need to cut spending but the republican plans only cut programs that affect the poor and elderly. They don't cut defense or their pork barrel projects.
It seems like the Republicans in the House want to continue to play their games. Thank God that the Senate and the White is controlled by the Democrats.
Yet oddly a pure up or down vote will fail the senate.
What's up with that job1? Perhaps there are a few dems who are also "playing games?"
Games? Oh, you are so incorrect, this is not a game. The accumulated debt of the country is as serious as a heart attack. Either the Democrats get serious about deficit reduction, and stop playing their games with the future of the country, or they get replaced. It's as simple as that.
Spanky,
To your point. From the Washington Examiner, by Philip Klein:
House minority Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the second ranking Democrat in the chamber, is urging Democrats to vote against a stand alone, or "clean" vote in the House to raise the debt limit without any strings attatched.
The Hill reports:
Hoyer has previously said he would vote for a "clean" increase in the debt limit and 114 Democrats last month signed on to a letter calling for such a vote. So Republicans decided to call their bluff, but now Democrats are reluctant to stick their necks out. This is part of a growing trend.
Remember, last week, zero Senate Democrats voted for Obama's budget.
Groucho - Exactly what are you implying about the democrats?
Straight up Groucho - failure to lead. I get man hate Ryan, but at least he is trying.
But heyy it's cool - I say do nothing, just like Reid wants. The problems will solve themselves. The programs will go away.
It really is a lot like the post office. Going away, all by itself.
If Paul Ryan were adamant about raising taxes on the wealthiest, at least back to the level they were during the Reagan era, I might think he was truly serious about cutting the deficit.
Instead, I think he is an ideolgue, wanting to privatize Medicare just because, like most Republicans, he worships at the altar of corporate profit. Republicans have fought the safety net idea since Roosevelt's time.
I wish Paul Ryan were more pragmatic. Medicare Advantage raised healthcare costs because it was through private insurance companies. How hard is it to look at the real world and see what didn't work before?
Even Barack Obama is against raising taxes on the "wealthy". He had the chance to do so last year when then House Minority leader John Boehner agreed that if he couldn't extend or make permanent the Bush tax cuts for everyone, he (Boehner) would agree to extend or make permanent those tax rates for the non-wealthy.
Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/12/ftn/main6858401.shtml
Amy - better rethink medicare advantage, it is back and by some reports even moderatley successful.
I love how you put "wealthy" in quotes, as if the 1% per cent of Americans who control half of the nation's treasure might possibly be imaginary.
So saith Saint Reagan. So doeth this progeny? NO.
They would rather support the folks sitting on bags of sidelined cash until they get their tax cuts permanently extended on the back of the poor and destitute in this country.
They would rather support corporate 'persons' as designated by the bought and paid for SCOTUS; corporate 'persons' will buy whoever they can to corrupt our democratic process.
They do not care what the repercussions are as long as they get their way right down to the last decimal point of cuts they can only dream about making without this President's signature.
They are all Poor Johnny One Notes for the long haul thinking they can sell their drivel as NEW ideas. (SEE Ryan's hard-selling his 'plan')
Not this time. (I know you righties love this but here goes...) THE SLEEPING GIANT is wiiiiiiiiide awake now and only more 'sleepers' will awaken from here on in. As the circus the GOP/TP call their 'field' of candidates perform the more they will stick their foot in it unless they get real and get serious.
Right now they live in fantasyland and are about as serious as a wifebeating preacher praying hell fire and brimstone down on a dead beat dad.
The Republicans are not serious about what is best for the country. They are fearful of the "teabaggers". We tried to warn you Republicans that if you dance with the "teabaggers" and you allow them to put you back into office....they pretty much think they own you, lock, stock and tea box. So, the Republican party cannot do what it should do and make a reasonable judgment about the debt ceiling. Here is what that reasonable judgment is: it is time to return tax rates to the Clinton era levels, that along with the spending cuts should help to cut our deficit.
But, that would be thoughtful, pro-American, something the "teabaggers" would revolt over, since they are neither thoughtful, nor patriotic.
Amy---the wars don't count to the Republicans----remember, the Iraq was was going to pay for itself with oil revenues. That hasn't worked out so well, has it?
If they say the deficit was much smaller back then, remind them who has run the White House during most of those years.
Remind them that Clinton ran a surplus, which means the Republican Presidents were responsible for the majority of the deficit.
How many times has the ceiling been raised? Since March 1962, the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, according to the Congressional Research Service. Ten of those times have occurred since 2001.
Where were you teabaggers during the 8 GWB years? Didnt hear any whining then....
It is VERY important to the GOP to make sure President Obama fails.
How many times has the ceiling been raised? Since March 1962, the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, according to the Congressional Research Service. Ten of those times have occurred since 2001.
Where were you teabaggers during the 8 GWB years? Didnt hear any whining then....
The deficit doesn't matter when a Republican is president. Just ask Dick Cheney - Reagan proved it.
Gina - and yet the US has continued to grow regardless of president.
Of course, the fact that medicare and SS is unsustainable is of no concern to obama and company either.
Lurker, care to elaborate to us on the teaparty history. I didn't know they were organized during the period you mention. Perhaps they should have been.
The Republicans caused most of this debt, but now they are holding America hostage. Vote the Republican bums out. Anyone can see they are petty, unAmerican and could care less about America. I'm tired of the GOP party of dinosaurs holding the rest of America hostage because of your idiotic beliefs. When will this bull get tiresome. During the Clinton presidency these clowns pulled the same thing. Republican presidents Reagan and Bush ran up the deficit and then demanded that Clinton pay the bill. Same situtation here, Bush and his GOP minion exploded the deficit by failing to pay for two wars, medicare part d and huge tax cuts for the rich. Now these clowns demand that the President, a Democrat pay the bill. Same old story, different presidents. Tired of the GOP giving away your tax dollars to the rich and wall street? Vote the GOP clowns out of office in 2012 so lAmerica can move forward and do the right thing.
Gina - spoken like a true adherent to the siasd syndrome. The US government does keep track of yearly deficits and of our ever increasing debt. You can even correlate historical event timelines to the deficit/debt.
I guess for someone like you it is easier to just point a finger and lay blame. Bet you would have been an excellent witness during the salem witch hunts or spanish inquisitions.
"After years of historic deficits, this new Congress will commit itself to a higher standard: pay as you go, no new deficit spending. Our new America will provide unlimited opportunity for future generations, not burden them with mountains of debt." - Nancy Pelosi January/2007 Acceptance Speech for Speaker
In the next 4 years, Ms. Pelosi's House would pass spending bills totaling over $5 trillion dollars in deficit spending.
...well, the plan might be to devalue the USD to Mex Peso standard, it would certainly solve two problems: the debt and immigration....you gotta give Pelosi props for thinking outside the box...
JoAnnasmith............. that simply is NOT true. The GOP filibustered the Dems' budget proposals so in fact it was mostly continuing resolutions that were passed......... that is, a continuation of the bush spending! Dont forget, inaddition to that, bush left Pres. Obama with a $1.3T deficit BEFORE he was even sworn in!
Please google "starve the beast"!
Well said Amy. The letter from President Reagan shows just how far the Republicans have gone to the right. President Reagan would be a flaming liberal to some of these people now running the House of Representatives.
Jim,
You need the back round on why Reagan sent this letter. Read my post above or look it up for your self.
I don't know about you, but I remember Reagan, I was a Dem at the time. Then I realized what the Dems were doing.
Let's not forget Reagan didnt just blow a $ trillion dollars on a failed stimulus bill before he sent the letter to congress asking to raise the debt ceiling. Before you make a request you have to have some form of credibility that you will spend the extra debt wisley....
Let's not forget that Bush got 5 debt ceiling increases during his term...all of which were enthusiastically supported by the Republicans in Congress.
 ...Obama evoking Reagan....Palin supporting end to oil subsidies...what are die-hard Dems/Reps to do?....what is next?....geomagnetic polar reversal?....are politicians coalescing towards real solutions?...Â
MSNBC justs gives us the warmed over White House talking points, with headlines spun toward the Left Wing view
So Bob, why are you on MSNBC if you dislike it so much?
"The House Democrats' top vote-counter is advising rank-and-file members to vote against an unconditional increase in the federal debt limit to avoid political attacks from Republicans.
Rep. Steny Hoyer (Md.), the second-ranking House Democrat, said Tuesday that members should not "subject themselves to a political 30-second ad attack" by voting to raise the debt ceiling when all Republicans are expected to vote no."
The Hill.com
"Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (Md.), the No. 2 Democrat in the House, intends to oppose a resolution to pull U.S. forces from Libya when it hits the floor Wednesday.
Hoyer said the proposal, sponsored by anti-war Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), would undermine the relationship between the United States and the other members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO, which is leading efforts to help Libyan rebels overthrow longtime dictator Moammar Gadhafi."
The Hill.com
Sounds like you o'blemmings are still still being led over the cliff ...
I went to a spooky Republican psychic, "Taxcutta the All Knowing" to invoke the spirit of Ronald Reagan, we made contact through her crystal ball but the spirit kept fading in and out. I said "whats wrong with your crystal ball" and she said "nothing it works fine, he's still senile.
Why GOP won't budge on taxes:
Bloomberg Business Week
By Drake Bennett
Grover Norquist, the Enforcer.  For decades, the Americans for Tax Reform founder has locked in lawmakers to oppose new taxes. The deficit debate is his greatest triumph—and biggest test.
The Taxpayer Protection Pledge. Administered by the Washington-based Americans for Tax Reform and created by the organization's founder, Grover Norquist, the pledge binds its takers to oppose "any and all efforts" to increase marginal income tax rates and to protect tax deductions and credits. Two hundred thirty-three of the 240 House Republicans have signed it, as have 40 of the 47 Republican senators. Two House Democrats and one Senate Democrat, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, are signatories, as well as 1,252 state legislators who signed a less specific pledge. All of which would be meaningless without the omertà -like fidelity with which pledge takers stick to their vows once in office. Any time a proposal is floated to increase taxes in any way—not just income taxes or trimming tax credits, but capital-gains taxes and even excise taxes on gasoline or tobacco—it's a safe bet that Norquist's army will line up against it.
As the federal government brushes against the debt ceiling, putting at risk everything from the nation's ability to provide prescription drugs for its seniors to a robust national defense, politicians on all sides agree that failure to reach a compromise could be catastrophic. Yet congressional Republicans have remained nearly monolithic in opposing tax increases as part of the solution. The deficit, they insist, must be closed entirely through spending cuts. It's a triumph for Norquist's pledge and the worldview it represents and reinforces: that government spending is, by its nature, a corrupting force on individual liberty and the free market, something to be fought whether the government is in the black or in the red. "Anyone who says we have a deficit problem is either a Democrat who wants to raise taxes," says Norquist, "or a Republican who's dimwitted and doesn't understand what he's talking about."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_23/b4231006685629.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist
Ah yes, Grover Norquist-- THE prime proponent of the 30 yo old GOP strategy of "starve the beast" --- the plan to run up the debt so high it would cause a debt crisis which would enable Republicans to say that privatizing the social entitlements waas a NECESSITY rather than a choice! They've accomplished the first part, now they're trying to do the second part! DONT LET THEM!
Well, Obama got his vote and he lost, badly. He couldn't even get his own party members to vote for it and now he should bite the bullet and start making those tough choices he was so fond of talking about, but some how can't muster the courage to actually propose and implement. Your bluff has been called Mr. Obama.
Obama's insistence on raising the debt ceiling without cutting his reckless spending is simply irresponsible. What is wrong with him?He is the one that is playing a dangerous game with our fiscal well being. Does he not understand that we can not continue to run up massive budget deficits without running this country into total collapse? We can not get this clown out of office soon enough. When the campaign's start up in full swing Obama will be skewered by his own words.
All of the above are quotes from Pres Obama. Moreover, just before the Nov elections Mr. Obama was warning that, after the new year, tough choices would have to be made to cut spending and reduce the deficit. However, Mr. Obama has clearly been a man of empty rhetoric and not one of action. His bluff is now being called. Repubs need to stick to the will of the voters and force Mr Obama and the Dems to live up to their rhetoric.
Mr. Obama's lack of leadership and inability to adhere to his own words have been stunning. First, he failed to timely submit a proposed 2011 budget in 2010. This was obviously politically motivated, as he knew that if the budget he eventually did propose, well into 2011, was put before the voters before the Nov elections, members of his party would have suffered even larger defeats at the polls than the massive drubbing they suffered.
Second, the budgets Mr Obama has proposed in the past and the budget he belatedly proposed for 2011 all substantially increased deficit spending and the debt. While his proposed budget for 2011 slowed the rate of deficit spending, it still increased deficit spending. No real cuts were proposed. If that isn't kicking the can down the road, I don't know what is!
Third, Mr. Obama's 2011 proposed budget lacked tough choices and was utterly a failure when it came to giving leadership. To the contrary, it encouraged the "Progressives" to continue calling for massive big government spending with no end in sight. And he is not working with Republicans to get the tough meaningful choices enacted that will actually reduce spending and the deficit, as opposed to merely reducing the rate of increase in both as he and the Dems continually propose.
Fourth. Mr Obama was so insistent in having a deficit commission put in place that he bypassed Congress, because they were not willing to authorize the Commission, and issued an executive order forming the Commission. Yet when the Commission came out with its recommendations Obama did the exact opposite of what he said he would do, and ignored virtually every recommendation they made when he issued his belated proposed budget. Indeed the Commission was yet another Washington gimmick, put in place by Mr. Obama, designed to try and placate voters into thinking that Mr Obama was serious about addressing deficit spending and the crisis level debt we are now saddled with, which he has exponentially increased during his term in office. Which, by the way, he would continue to increase if Congress allows him to have his way on the budget.
I guess Mr Obama was correct, when he stated that he didn't go to Washington to pass our problems onto the next President or generation. What he didn't tell us is that he planned on passing along even bigger problem to both.
Mr Obama has before him the opportunity to show some real leadership while at the same time addressing Washington's spending addiction. He can start off by rallying the members of his own party to pass a balanced budget amendment. If every ones' goal is to act fiscally responsible and balance the budget, than why not force them to do so by requiring it under the Constitution? Surely a balanced budget amendment will be favored by the public and the Repubs will back it as well. Once it is passed our elected officials, in all parties, will be forced to deal with reality and live within our means.If he is not willing to go the amendment route, he can prose budgets that only spend as much revenue as we take in. Not the deficit spending budgets he and the Dems continue to propose. He can advance the ball along even further by timely proposing a 2012 budget that makes cuts and reforms in the massive entitlement programs that are required if real progress is to be made. Leaving the tough choices to the Repubs and then chastising them when they make tough choice proposals is simply not productive and, quite frankly,a childish political ploy. And certainly demonstrates a lack of leadership capability/will.
If Mr. Obama is a man of action that meets his rhetoric he will heed his own words. Otherwise his words will come back to end his Presidency when the voters hold him accountable in 2012.
I guess you dont remember that the last 3 GOP presidents signed TWENTY deficit riddled budgets that led DIRECTLY to $11T in debt! To top THAT off, it was all done a DELIBERATELY, following the plan adopted under reagan to mortgage the government to the hilt so they could privatize SS, Medicare etc! Research Grover Norquist's insistence on "starve the beast" to see the GOP treacherous plan to take benefits FROM the less fortunate and transfer that money to the MOST fortunate!! If they had NOT done that, we wouldnt be having this conversation and the country's finances would be in fine shape!
King K...I disagree with you big time about our President, but I appreciate that your debate is well written, omitting ugliness, hatred, and name calling. Thank you for a mature post.
Tom
Two wrongs don't make a right. If your justification is that others did the same in the past, than that is simply lame. I don't care which party is doing it, the reckless deficit spending has got to stop and we need a balanced budget amendment.
KingK.... the deficit is mostly built in..... it's structural..... an inheritance from the GOP. WHY wont republicans allows cuts in the MASSIVE fat in the defense budget. After having been eliminated by the DEM congress in 2009, Boehner has put BACK on the table the alternate engine for the new F35 ( which is amost 300% OVERBUDGET btw) even tho the Pentagon does NOT want that engine!! ( one supplier is in boehner's district ). In 2009. the DEMs tried to cut back that F35 programs since it was going way OVER BUDGET. The GOP filibustered it! Do some reading cuz what they GOP did, they did deliberately so they balanced the budget and get rid of the debt by privatizing ALL the entitlements, SS , Medicare etc... In doing so, the endangerd the national security of this country just so they could take government benefits away from the least fortunate and hand the money over to the MOST fortunate!
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
http://www.lafn.org/gvdc//Natl_Debt_Chart.html
http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/06/tax-cuts-republicans-starve-the-beast-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10054/1037783-109.stm
I posted this before and do so again:
For eight years, the GOP held the credit card. Like teenagers, the GOP ran that credit card up to its limit, not caring about how to pay the bill. Then the Democrats took the credit card away from the GOP and responsible to pay the credit card bill. The GOP did not take responsibility for the trillions of dollars that they charged on the credit card, and just like teenagers, they say, "We didn't do it - they did!" and blame the Democrats for THEIR debts. The GOP wants the Democrats to pay the bill NOW, and they insist for the Democrats to not spend ANY money until their debt is paid off. Teenagers are irresponsible and think only about themselves. When they get in trouble, the blame is always pointed toward anyone but themselves. Teenagers ignore and reject authority since they think they know everything. And when given a credit card, teenagers will spend as much as they can and leave the bill for someone else to pay. The GOP needs to grow up (they are NOT teenagers!), take responsibility for their own actions, and cooperate with the Democrats to help pay for their eight years of mad spending. The snotty attitude of, "WE can spend money, but YOU can't!" gets the voters and this country nowhere.
k2mn.... actually, the GOP used that credit card for twenty years! In 1981, the debt was less than $1T--- as of then end of bush's last budget, it was $11.9T. That means the last 3 GOP presidents signed TWENTY deficit riddled budgets, 3/4s of them rammed thru using "reconciliation"! In the process, they endangered that country's national security just so they could privatize the entitlements!
Tom...thanks for the reminder of the past 20 years of the GOP's spending sprees.
The Debt limit (and spending) are CONTROLLED BY CONGRESS.
Reagan had a Democrat Congress and the debt ceiling was raised.
Clinton had a Republican Congress and the budget was BALANCED.