“When "Mr Economy" Romney was governor of MA, the state was 47th out of 50 states in job creation for those four years. "Mr Economy?".­...... Not so much.”

WASHINGTON -- Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is calling Barack Obama "one of the most ineffective presidents" he's ever seen, and says he can beat him next year.

Is that right Romney? I would swear Romney left Massachusetts as the most hated governor we ever had.

CNN: A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Monday indicates that Obama's approval rating among Americans stands at 54 percent, with 45 percent saying they disapprove of the job he's doing as president. Obama's approval rating appears to have steadily risen in the past two months, from 48 percent in early April to 52 percent in early May and the current mark of 54 percent.

Check out the scandals alone in past administrations going back to Nixon. And guess, guess, guess who had the most scandals?

Why Reagan, of course.

I don’t remember who pointed this out over the weekend, but it was a commentor on either the Obama Diary or blackwaterdog site. I thought it interesting.

The Scandal Free Obama Administration:

I don't like to reward President's for doing what they're supposed to do, but in light of the last administration, it's unfortunately noteworthy that President Obama has had a scandal free Administration.

Arguably the most corrupt Presidential Administration in US history is the Reagan Administration. It's a close battle between Bush-Reagan-Nixon.

The record is 32 set by the Reagan Administration, maybe the most corrupt Presidential Administration in US history.

http://thepragmaticprogressive.blogspot.com/2011/04/scandal-free-obama-administration.html

___________________________________________________

Honesty doesn’t count for much with the GOP these days.

Great, great, great news!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chicago Sun Times: SPRINGFIELD — The Illinois House passed a state version of the DREAM Act Thursday in a vote hailed by immigration-rights advocates as historic.

By a 61-53 vote, the House approved and sent to Gov. Pat Quinn legislation that would set up a state fund that would route privately funded college scholarships to as many as 95,000 children of undocumented immigrants.

Quinn has expressed support for the legislation, whose chief House sponsor was Rep. Edward Acevedo (D-Chicago).

The measure, also pushed by Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Cardinal Francis George, would allow undocumented immigrants ages 18 to 29 with taxpayer-identification cards to invest in the state’s Bright Start and College Illinois programs.

Good Morning Navy!

I caught Mitch 'the turtle' McConnell on MTP Sunday, the plan is to NOW hold the debt ceiling in an attempt for the GNOP to get it's way!

Gotcha Gregory calling this move 'courageous' was the final straw for me!

I'll go back to watching ANYTHING but MTP again!

Good morning Navy,

I always enjoy reading you post, and today's is another example of why. Always truthful and fact checked.

Thanks again

Romney: I will repeal Obamacare on the first day I'm in office. My bill was 70 pages. His bill is 2,700 pages. In those extra 2,630 pages he's doing a lot of stuff that is just devastating to the healthcare system in this country.

What stuff Romney? Please tell us why you as President of the United States don't want to see people getting healthcare.

Have you read all the pages? Do you know what's in it, jacka$$?

Correction to comment #1.2 - should read:

plan is to NOW hold the debt ceiling hostage...

First Thoughts: For the past two-and-a-half years, if not longer, Barack Obama has been the central actor in American politics. Almost every crisis, poll, or political event has involved him or revolved AROUND him in some form or fashion. But in the next several days --

_______________________________________

He's the President of the United States, not a central actor. He is the most important leader in the world. And there is a lot going on all around the world. Are we to ignore it all simply because there is an election in what - a year and a half?

I have no problem with giving ink time to GOP who may or may not run. But this doesn't excuse ignoring the news regarding President Obama's visit to Missouri or Arlington or what's happening in Libya.

His speech in Wesminster received practically zero attention. It was an extraordinary speech. Yet Palin is on summer vacation and the ridiculous unprofessional media is seeking her out?

Something is terribly wrong here with the media in general in this country.

Hold the debt ceiling hostage? I find it very hard to believe so many people are OK with continually raising this countries debt and thus, contributing to it's demise. How long do you think other countries will be stupid enough to accept payment for debt with newly printed money?

Exactly so, Pat. Apparently the MSM isn't used to a president that actually DOES THINGS.

I found that represented this morning in a TV story about the in process changes to President Obama's foreign policy team. A comment was made that this team represents people Barack Obama trusts to implement HIS policy.

What a refreshing change from the previous President. He was renowned for being "incurious" and demonstrated this by allowing other people to make all the decisions. If they resulted in success he took all the credit. If they resulted in failure he threw someone under the bus.

“If it were not for Mitt Romney, with assistance from the Heritage Foundation and George W. Bush, it is extremely unlikely that Obama would have passed his universal health-care law last year,” Lizza writes.

Tell me what republicans voted for this law? Democrats had a huge majority in the house. 59 or 60 votes in the senate. Scott Brown won on the platform that he would be the 41st vote against the legislation. Why is there no analysis of how Candidate Obama flipped 180 degrees on his no mandate required promise? I believe Barack Obama is president not Mitt Romney but this site tries to maintain the narrative that the Republicans made me do it when they were not even in power. Ahh the mind games of those evil right-wingers.

Lets get this straight Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu and other DEMOCRATS voted for the individual mandate. The same people who made the administration cave on extending the tax cuts.

it is going to be Romney vs Obama, it all will depend on how the economy is doing at the time of the election.

Chicago Sun Times: SPRINGFIELD — The Illinois House passed a state version of the DREAM Act Thursday in a vote hailed by immigration-rights advocates as historic.

By a 61-53 vote, the House approved and sent to Gov. Pat Quinn legislation that would set up a state fund that would route privately funded college scholarships to as many as 95,000 children of undocumented immigrants.

Quinn has expressed support for the legislation, whose chief House sponsor was Rep. Edward Acevedo (D-Chicago).

The measure, also pushed by Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Cardinal Francis George, would allow undocumented immigrants ages 18 to 29 with taxpayer-identification cards to invest in the state’s Bright Start and College Illinois programs.

I am so glad that Illinois has the money for such a program. I am sure this will happily be paid for by taxpayers and by the legal American students who are denied places by this program. BTW was this part of Governor Quinn's platform?

tl;dr

This is a must read. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/may2011/gree-m31.shtml

A Newsvine poster - Arch Stanton - put this link up this morning. Don't be put out by the word "Socialist". Anyone with a dime's worth of brains knows socialism is part of every economy in the world.

If, after you have read this article, you can't see where we are headed, then you are blind. Bankers will literally reduce Greece to a wholly-owned subsidiary of bankers. That is not left-wing hyperbole, that is fact.

I have repeatedly posted the fact that we have to squarely face the future. We don't have time for this ridiculous partisanship and identity politics BS. If we take the necessary steps to control our future, they are going to be painful. They are going to be very, very painful the longer we wait. At some point, and probably in the not-too-distant future, it is going to be too late.

IF we refuse to act, by virtue of our inaction we will be reduced to serfs. Every bit of wealth that has been created by the lower class will be handed to the upper class. (There is not now - and there never was - a middle class in this country or anywhere else on the planet. There is an upper class and a lower class. That's it.)

Please read this article. Here's the link again: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/may2011/gree-m31.shtml

We don't have time to waste. Forget the Ryan's, the Boehner's, the McConnell's, the Reid's and Pelosi's and yes - even President Obama. This is about us and our future. We must demand that all of them stop with their delaying tactics and their damned political games. We have some serious business to attend to and some serious pain to get behind us. We have to start now.

Stop The Hypocrisy:

tl;dr

Get used to typing that for a majority of the cut and paste comments from the usuals on this site. The usuals are the only ones who read them and predictably reply with "Great Post (Insert Usual here!).

Listening to Mitt Romney's NBC interview, I was struck by the lack of ideas Romney has. He was quick to criticize President Obama for everything (except Mitt did say Obama inheritied the economic crisis), using every GOPTP talking point we've heard the last two years. I realize the interviewer's purpose is to have Romney answer questions but it seems interviewers ignore the idea of challenging Romney's blatantly untrue claims. How ironic, Romney and republicans for over two years has claimed Government (and the President) cannot create jobs, that it is business that creates jobs yet Romney is now claiming that as president, he would and could create jobs.

As for David Gregory's interview with Mitch McConnell yesterday, I was again unimpressed. He gave McConnell a free pass, no challenge, no fact checking, no questioning McConnell's untruthful statements. Yet Gregory had no problem arguing with Chuck Schummer. The once excellent MTP has become a right-leaning sales pitch instead of a nonpartisan forum for good, honest, political debate with challenges to both sides of the aisle.

Think Progress: My Healthcare is Different Because It's Shorter -

{you can't make this stuff up}

ROMNEY: If I become president, I will repeal ObamaCare. My bill was 70 pages. His is over 2,000. He’s doing a lot of stuff that’s devastating to the health care system in this country. He’s wrong.

TProgress: Despite the disparity in length, the two laws are very similar in how they try to expand access to health care and some of those extra pages in the ACA are devoted to controlling health care spending — something Romney didn’t include in his 2006 law-

Alan: or we could continue to follow the right wing plan of shooting ourselves in our foot and clubbing ourselves with a 2X4 because it feels so good (yeah, who on earth would want all of those millions of kids EDUCATED...we need them to be an unemployed drain on America so we can have something more to whine about.)

Navy,

While personally inclined to agree with the philosophy behind your post, and I can compliment you on writing style and the like...I fail to understand it's pertinence to the actual First Read article it's posted to, which said nothing about Social Security. I imagine in the desire to be first to post, some work long and hard writing up a long post to have it ready as soon as FR posts, and it's a crap shoot as to it's pertinence.

What's next...meat loaf recipes? Speculation about Oprah/Brad/Jen? They're about as pertinent as this post was.

Well, I see the usual First Thoughts libs are here backslapping each other and exchanging assurances that 2012 is in the bag for Obama. Not so fast! The election is 16 months off, and the eventual GOP nominee has quite possibly not declared yet, among what I admit is a weak field of candidates. But before you break open the chamapgne, consider the possibility of a Chris Cristy/Marco Rubio(there goes the Hispanic vote)ticket. And, come election time, jobs will trump Medicare as the prime issue.

Mitt Romney on his health plan.

My plan is like Obama's plan but it is different, my plan is a good plan, but not too good, his plan is a bad plan but not too bad. You really can't tell them apart except when my plan is like his it's bad, and when his plan is like my plan it is not good. Oh please Mitt give it up.

Collapse Holes:

We are a nation - indeed, a world - in deep trouble. We are on an a path to destruction, and it seems that all we can do is engage in grade-school name-calling and finger-pointing.

We need answers, and if by chance, a viable alternative should show up here, you can bet someone is going to try to hide it. "If I collapse this post, it disappears."

This is abject stupidity. If you believe a post has no value - don't read it. If you disagree with it, perhaps you might try to see why you don't agree. Maybe - just maybe - you are wrong. The alternative is to examine your position and if you find you are certain you are correct, engage the other party in a constructive debate.

For all the finger-pointing - it's the Dems, it's the Repubs, it's liberals, it's conservatives - the inescapable conclusion is this: Congress is our mirror. Do you really like what you see?

I wrote this post after it was collapsed. Obviously collapsing it didn't stop you from reading this.

How pathetic that some right wingers had to collapse the writing of the U.S. Navy Disabled Vet. It was well written and made total sense - facts - not stupidity. Oh wait - that's why it was collapsed!

Spider the GOP has plenty of time to reverse their position on publicly trusted programs. There is nothing great about Medicare or Medicaid but people prefer them above being a puppet on string every time Private Health Companies need to make numbers for Wall Street.

Otherwise see ya, this is loosing issue for them. People like my father who is a staunch southern republican will not accept losing his Medicare Advantage. He dis likes liberals with a passion but he has told me he wont vote for anyone trying to turn his plan over to Wall Street. People like my father actually vote and its reality for the GOP, lets see how long they stay on the sinking ship.

Pat -

Think Progress: My Healthcare is Different Because It's Shorter -

{you can't make this stuff up}

LOL . . . I was about to write the same thing.

Weeks ago, Romney explained the difference between his plan and Obamacare as: "Mine is on the state level, and Obamacare is on the national level." . . . Wow, thank you Captain Obvious.

Now, Romney is explaining the difference by saying: "Well my plan was really short, and Obamacare is really long. I mean, look at all those words. What do they even mean? That's just too much to read. Mine short, his long."

I wish Romney would just be honest and say: Health care coverage for everyone is a good thing. However, the Insurance Industry and Fox News has spent millions to lie to Republican voters and convince them that it is bad . . . despite the fact that it benefits them. So now I have to pretend to agree with them so that I can get their votes.

W. Goin I actually believe the paid bloggers who work for the political parties browse around collapse the comments that hurt their cause.

AP-1414066

Alan: or we could continue to follow the right wing plan of shooting ourselves in our foot and clubbing ourselves with a 2X4 because it feels so good (yeah, who on earth would want all of those millions of kids EDUCATED...we need them to be an unemployed drain on America so we can have something more to whine about.)

Three Points:

1. These are people here illegally. Are you now telling me that it is justifiable for a nation to set up a program to educate people who enter their country illegally? I honestly think that people like you believe we have inexhaustible resources. Are we now responsible for educating the world's poor? As I said before where is your compassion for Americans, native-born and legal immigrants who will now be denied an education because of this program? Placement in education is not infinite.

2. How is this constitutional? If the Arizona law is illegal because it is the responsibility of the Federal government to enforce immigration laws, how is this not a state's attempt to implement the Dream Act which I believe is not law yet?

3. I predict the taxpayers of Illinois will reject this law and vote the bums out.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Why is it those on the right will forgo something that bennefits all US citizens because someone might illeagally take advantage of it? education, healthcare, safty nets we should throw them all out because I heard tell some illeagals are getting helped. Why don't we focus on the good these do for the Amercian citizens?

Why is it only the rich that deserve health, education and bail outs?

Why is it those on the right will forgo something that bennefits all US citizens because someone might illeagally take advantage of it? education, healthcare, safty nets we should throw them all out because I heard tell some illeagals are getting helped. Why don't we focus on the good these do for the Amercian citizens?

Why is it only the rich that deserve health, education and bail outs?

For the moment Ryan's Medicare proposal is the only sensible thing to do. It will save Medicare from imploding in just a few years. The Dems. just plan on skating I guess and "hoping for change" in that budget. Seniors currently on Medicare will not have one single thing change for them. Those 55 and under will have adjustments by the time they are eligible for retirement and Medicare. Dems. just willing to roll the dice, and then there will BE NO MEDICARE, at all. The Dems. are more worried about their next election than they are about the Seniors. What do they care if Medicare goes bust? It won't affect them. They'll still have their taxpayer paid golden health care (Obamacare isn't good enough for them. It's for us peons) and cushy pensions. Ryan may not be popular, because he is acting like a responsible adult looking out for today and tomorrow's Senior citizens. Somebody's got to wear the big boy pants...

People need to remember that raising the debt ceiling is paying for past debt. Bush's debt in fact. This is not money we are borrowing for current issues, this is the onslaught of debt we can thank the Republicans and their great leader Bush for, for passing on to us which will take years to pay off.

Vote all of them out. Who the hell do they think they are holding anything hostage? Romney is a creep and a gutless liar and the rest of the clowns like Palin just make me want to throw up.

Byl

Perhaps it is because a very large part of the US population is sick and tired of having illegal immigrant on the take while the states and the nation goes to hell in a financial handbasket.

3. I predict the taxpayers of Illinois will reject this law and vote the bums out.

Alan, NJ - the new Harold Camping?

Alan, NJ - the new Harold Camping?

LOL...Pity I'm an atheist....but if they don't vote them out in 2012, then they'll do it in 2014...or 2016 ...or 2018...........

Aggie: Can't believe you used "Ryan" and "sensible" in the same sentence. Save medicare by destorying it? yeah...that's why that "plan" is going over so well. LOL.

Pat, Boston-

Your comments about the MSM is right on! Palin is a publicity seeking, money-grubbing dolt and the media salivates after her as if she has something important to say. The woman cannot even string two sentences together. She never uses a comma or period.

They learned absolutely nothing from the Trump fiasco. As you recall Lawrence O'Donnell called out the media when Trump finally left the scene.

Aggie - First of all the Ryan plan is not sensible, Insurance companies have lobbied for this outcome for years, just as Wall Street has lobbied to take over social security. They are not doing this because their patriots, their doing this to make money. If they take over, premiums will go up fast because this doesn't meet their current cost model and would hurt their bottom line.

Medicare is not the problem, the problem is sky rocketing cost which Ryans plan doesn't address. So basically its kicking the can down the road and benefiting private insurers short term.

"ROMNEY: If I become president, I will repeal ObamaCare."

Ummm, last time I checked, the president doesn't have the power to repeal a law, he can veto legislation, and suggest legislation. The supreme court can void a law if it violates the constitution, but the power to write or repeal laws remains firmly in congress.

Nice thought experiment norm, except that's NOT how tax breaks have worked over the last 30 years. Not only have the wealthy gotten the biggest DOLLAR advantage (the point of your post) but they've also gotten the highest PERCENTAGE benefit (contrary to your imaginary story). That's how tax rates have dramatically flattened over time. In a futile effort to keep up with increasingly inadequate revenue a lot of other taxes have been increased--overwhelmingly taxes that hit the middle and lower classes inordinately.

That's how Conservatives continue coming back to the plate for helping after helping of "tax relief". Average Americans don't think they've gotten much in the way of relief because they haven't actually gotten that much. The rich have made out like bandits.

Thought experiments aside that's how it works out in the real world.

Alan, NJ

you've proved your lack of comprehension skills, yet again in post 1.11

"...By a 61-53 vote, the House approved and sent to Gov. Pat Quinn legislation that would set up a state fund that would route privately funded college scholarships to as many as 95,000 children of undocumented immigrants..."

What part of setting up a state fund that routes PRIVATE scholarships is so complex you couldn't follow along?

Bryan E, hysterical. thanks,

You can not save Medicare by killing it. Donating your money to Ryancare is fine, just leave my money alone.

Good Morning Feisty,

I loved you idea of the other day, if Palin runs, change our voter affiliation to make sure we can vote for HER in the primary.

White Collar Auto

Spare us the fake outrage.

White Collar Auto..

I totally agree with you but need to add that the insults and vitriol are coming from BOTH sides. Read some of the posts from over the weekend. Bob, Steve, American and a whole lot of others.

You can make your point without the name calling like ADULTS should. If you want to have a political discussion, then lets talk politics and leave the name calling out.

...and thanks for writing it up and posting it.

Sorry, Groucho, I don't see any name calling. "Queen" was in an article Feisty posted on here a while back. Ginger is another name for Redhead (Think Gilligan's Island). If I used some "Name Calling" as you point out, please enlighten me, if it's there I'll apologize for it.

xx

White collar........your faux outrage is misplaced. Ms. Palin does carry that poor misbegotten child of hers around like a sack of potatoes. She has shamelessly used him and her other children to make money. No other candidate has paraded their family as she has, why are they never in school? All she is teaching them is to be a grifter as she herself is.

I can attest that Feisty has more compassion in her little finger, than Ms Palin has in her fingers and toes. There has been far worse stated on this board by your holier than thou side and if it offends your sensibilities, your free to post elsewhere, so spare us the hot air.

White Collar Auto

Please read:

1. Sarah Palin rolls out at Rolling Thunder motorcycle ride

2. Palin makes stop at Washington's Mount Vernon

3. Bachmann's day in NH

Collapsed comments, name calling and the worst I've seen of FR posters.

Ok Mama, so I assume you have spent considerable time with both the Redhead and Sarah Palin, to attest as to which has more compassion? What an empty comment.

As far as parading children around, you must have missed the President using his children during the campaign? All politicians do it. It makes them all seem more like us, as if that's possible for any of them.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

--William Paley

White Collar......point me to where the President put his children on a bus and paraded them all over the place. They only appeared with him at the most important venues, his party nomination, his victory speech, etc., this is standard practise, no matter the candidate or party.

I have known Feisty for several years and can attest to her compassion. Compared to Ms. Palin, who has used faux compassion to foster votes by maligning the President now and when he was a candidate, including pandering to the extreme right of your party by suggesting he pals around with terrorists and subtley encouraging those of that mindset to have their guns at hand. This is just a sample of her divisive rhetoric and if you are OK with that, then you have no cause to criticise. There is no comparison.

White collar, Dont bother they dont and wont see your point of view. The best thing you can do is use this blog as a tool, invite people here to read and digest what they say! Some of my fellow Independents have commented to me that this is SNL comedy at its best......you just cant make this shyt up!

GM it doesn't count as compassion when you only display to those who politics agree with yours.

Let's get real here. Letting your compassion show through a Liberal political philosophy should never require one to just roll over, because Conservatives feel no such restrictions on their own behavior. Limbaugh certainly didn't when he was mocking Michael J Fox's Parkinson's disease. Beck felt no such restrictions when he said he hated the families of 9/11 victims. Calls for civility from such are nothing but demands to be allowed free reign.

Wisconsin efforts to destroy the rights of working Americans, The Republican budget that dismantles the social safety net, constant lies about "death panels", FEMA concentration camps, and the legalized bribery of Citizens United show that the wealthy elites are at war against the middle class.

Under such circumstances calling ugly reality for what it is would be the least that can be expected of Liberals.

John B, I totally agree Limbaugh was disgusting and Beck too. Calling out the truth is one thing, but too often this blog turns into a big kindergarten name-calling fest for the sake of "telling like it is". Conservatives and liberals are both at fault.

ksw......it does if you know the person on a personal level and I do know Feisty and I'm glad to stand with her. She keeps the right wing rhetoric real with wit and humor and yes, compassion for those whose voices would be drowned out by the Republican/TP propaganda.

I'll say it again, anyone who defends Sarah Palin and her destructive brand of politics needs to have their heads examined or at the very least ask why one would even think of supporting or defending such a poor example of a human who is only interested in herself and how much she can use the system for her own benefit.

sheesh y'all even the hatfield's and mccoy's eventually got along.

Funny how even though Ron Paul wins debates (won CPAC) he is NEVER in any of the government influenced media articles. Why is our government and government pressured/controlledmedia so afraid of this guy?   Could it be that he has principals and will not be swayed every time a political wind blows like all the other politicians including our president, or more likely that he wants to get rid of useless and fat cat spending including lucrative aid contracts with foreign governments and the military complex?  Anyone else read this:

 

Pakistan's Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has been in Beijing this week and just clinched a deal in which China will provide Pakistan with 50 fighter jets to the tune of $20-25 million a pop. 

The visit was organized some time back, but China has sought to maximize its diplomatic advantage following Pakistan's humiliation over the killing of Osama Bin Laden, and the subsequent crisis in U.S.-Pakistan relations.

Because they know he's right 96ws6, both the left and right fear him.

Just in case you are wondering where Pakistan spends the 2 BILLION in aid we give them for the "war on terror"

get em white collar.

Gingerbread Mama

I don't wish to argue the point but the President did use his child to show the Gulf was safe. It was later said the picture was not taken in the Gulf but who really knows.

I will say that the" sack of potatoes" reference was a little much for some people.

Da Noid

The fact that some are in disagreement does not mean that they have to pick up and leave. I think it is permitted to disagree on this page. Ever think of how boring it would be if everybody thought alike on every issue? If you are married would you want your spouse to only say "yes Dear" to your every wish? I can't think of anything more boring.

White Collar Auto

Your #2.15 post:
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

--William Paley

Now...Study that quote diligently with an eye to the Republican Party's new driving force (extreme right wing/Tea Party/etc.)...seems to apply very well there; Unwilling to accept other viewpoints/ideas, unwilling to compromise, the "only" solutions lie with "us", "take back our Nation" (from whom...hint), smaller government "by us" of course - no compromise, etc., etc. Overall, pretty narrow minded and divisive in nature and concept. Mr. Paley is correct.

well, how civil and adult of you. (good moniker...It's good to advertise so people know what's coming.)

Well Feisty, yeah, I have lost my appetite for "a battle of wits" with unarmed people. If you could point to one post of yours in the last week that didn't degrade someone or make a devisive comment I would be surprised. You may actually be able to find one, but if you can, it would be out numbered, I'd guess, about 50-1 by garbage. Your type of posts only serve to degrade an intelligent conversation, therefore I believe you are unarmed. Worse yet, you seem to feed the people on this board that may actually have something intelligent to say.

I actually had an interesting discussion with a few people about the auto industry on this site. See, the left and right, have a lot of misconceptions about things like the Bailout (It was a loan), that GM and Chrysler have paid the government back (The government still holds equity stakes in both companies, GM still has a lot of a loan to pay back), and electric technology (Still has a long way to go, batteries don't last long enough are unreliable in cold climates and very heavy, the market and technology is the answer not government regulations)

So go ahead, keep ranting, I'm done with you for now. You really aren't worth it.

I have no civility to pigs who verbally abuse a child with special needs as I to have one. You dont like it AP? Then read my name!

I notice that someone hates the truth and collapsed my comment about redhead being a pig, when I have certainly read worse out here from the leftlibs and they seem to be just fine. I believe thats called censorship?

Thoughts from cali: He has down syndrome. You are the mouth breathing retard.

Biteme:

Anyone who has read your posts would know that if you had a child, it would be a "special needs" child. Its first need is a new parent - and yes, we know you have no civility. Your moniker just might be a tip-off.

No one has verbally abused Palin's child. She, however, has abused that child. If the "sack of potatoes" reference offends you, try this out. She treated that baby like a football in a photo-op. She tucks that little football under her arm, waves ever-so-cloyingly at her adoring public, and then hands the little football off to a second-stringer.

You guys and your righteous indignation and your manufactured outrage have nothing of value to offer. Really, you are pathetically shallow.

Get real!

and someone voted cali's post up? I'm hoping it was an accident they were actually meaning to give it a no value or inflammatory right?

Biteme: I have a special needs step-daughter, I usually don't get riled up over "retard" comments they're just words and words only hurt or have value if you let them.

Cali's went way overboard, where I would usually dismiss Feisty's as being uninformed.

Hey, Whitey!!!

You should see some of the comments I got last week when I mistook Michelle Obama for Patrick Ewing in an evening gown (A simple mistake anyone could have made)!!! I even had the strength of character to admit my mistake and apologize to Mr. Ewing and his family later in the day once I discovered my error!!! And what did I get for it??? I was labeled a racist!!! Can you imagine??? Some of the First Read faithful had the nerve to pull the race card on me!!! ME, of all people!!!

I did not upset me!!! It made me feel as though I had "made it" and become one of the newest members in the hallowed halls of First Read!!! For who on this board has not been labeled a racist at one time or another!!!

BEWARE!!! THE ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE IS COMING!!!

Oh yes, I went overboard by pointing out that Palin uses the thing ONLY to get votes.

Ya, she pulls him out for photo-ops and then tosses it back to the nanny so she can continue her tour. And the sad part is that all of your right-wingers are playing right into her little sympathy ploy.

She uses the thing as a prop to get more votes, and I'm the a-hole for pointing that out. Right . . . LMAO.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The right-wing party says every horrible thing you can think of about homosexuals and muslims . . . but how dare anyone say a negative thing out retards. Keep up the hypocrisy, it's what you are best at.

Thoughts from Cali-

You know, I lived and worked in California for a while. It was because of people like you that I came home to Michigan.

For the record, I have been civil in my discourse on this article with my posts and no, as if it needs to be said, I don't agree with the name calling and vulgarity on either side. "Vulgarity is the tool of the witless".

Since, for some reason, my original post was collapsed, I don't suppose I will get an apology from Groucho who claimed I was "Name Calling". I asked him to point it out and he mysteriously went away. What a shock. And Feisty talks about cowards. I think that too, may work both ways.

Chris, Cranbury, NJ:

No, your comment was not, "(A simple mistake anyone could have made)!!! ......") It was a vicious slur a simple person would make.

You are the epitome of a troll.

White Collar Auto -

After all the garbage I've seen posted on these boards by GOP nut bags, you have the nerve to point fingers! What a joke.

Then again, this is essentially the same question I posed after Bush left office...

"You have the nerve to point fingers at Obama after what Bush left us?"

WOW!!!!

OK, so by GOP logic, jobs are now the child of this new House Of Reps. Where are the jobs, GOP? Sadly, your real agenda is very clear. Job creation... LMAO!!!

"Obama gets and F."

No Mr. Romney, you and your chorus of crazies have all the integrity of a large steaming pile of !@#$.

Back to the original thread....I for one won't be watching any of it. What a collosal waste of time. It will be who it will be, and so far for me there isn't anyone in the bunch who is worth even taking a second look at in the Republican party. If that happens, I'll tune in. Until then, I have a life to lead. How about the rest of you?

White Collar Auto..

Whoa there. I posted the following:

White Collar Auto..

I totally agree with you but need to add that the insults and vitriol are coming from BOTH sides. Read some of the posts from over the weekend. Bob, Steve, American and a whole lot of others.

You can make your point without the name calling like ADULTS should. If you want to have a political discussion, then lets talk politics and leave the name calling out.

...and thanks for writing it up and posting it.

Additionally, I posted 3 topics where BOTH sides were totally out of control:

Please read:

1. Sarah Palin rolls out at Rolling Thunder motorcycle ride

2. Palin makes stop at Washington's Mount Vernon

3. Bachmann's day in NH

Collapsed comments, name calling and the worst I've seen of FR posters.

So you either have the wrong guy or you are just wrong. Read my posts above where I said you were name calling.

As for your supporter David Walker, above, just read his post. Nuff said.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL..

Some of the posters here think you are crazy and now I know why.

I am NOT Ira Lapin and I find it incredulous that you would post this statement without any basis in fact and for what purpose. Do you know how foolish this makes you look?

I made a mistake. I did not give credit to Ira Lapin when posting a reply to White Collar Auto and from that you're implying that I'm somebody else.

Christ lady, get a freaking life and stay out of mine.

Hey, Walkin' Dude!!!

Did you ever hear the philosophy that once a man admits that he's wrong that he is immediately forgiven for all wrongdoings??? Have you ever heard that???

I apologized to Mr. Ewing!!! What more do you want???

THE ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE IS COMING!!!

BiteMe: "verbally abuse a child with special needs"? I think you're overstating your case just a bit there, since the poster did no such thing.

You respond to every post like a petulant middle schooler who has just learned some big bad words. How's that working for ya?

David Walker: It is obvious that you are unable to have children as to your ignorance of defending a child being held by his mother. In case you dont know(which is obvious that you dont) parenting is 24 hours a day, seven days a week. You just dont leave your children with someone so you can get your picture taken you idiot. I have raised 2 children by myself( 1 sheriffs deputy and 1 Army soldier) and I am helping my wife raise her special needs child because his father doesnt know how. You have NO idea as to how to raise a child, otherwise you and the rest of your idiot Palin bashers would know that a mother holding her child is perfectly natural and refering to a special needs child as a sack of potatoes or whatever is nothing but spewing your hatred and stupidity for the whole world to see.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Not crazy - just been around long enough to recognize a hoax when I see one

PLEASE, report me to Newsvine, I'm begging you.

If you don't rescind that last comment, I will report you.

Again, PLEASE do it so you can and will be suspended.

Well Groucho, we found something we can agree on.

BTW, Sorry if I misread your post. When it said "You can make your point without name calling" I took it to be directed at me instead of a generic you (i.e. other posters).

Honest mistake.

AP:Obviously you think name calling a special needs child is a cool and elementary thing to do. I can see that it must make you feel better about yourself when a child is insulted as that is the only way you can feel superior. Why dont you go back to pushing around some grade schoolers for thier lunch money as it seems that is the ONLY thing that works for you.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL..

Consider it done.

You've violated the Honor Code and more importantly implied that I was a liar.

Glad you think this is funny.

NO, GROUCHO!!! I will have to come in at this point in defense of Feisty!!!

HOW DARE YOU, GROUCHO!!! How dare you attempt to deny the nation, nay, the very world entire, the comedic stylings of she that is Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL!!! The immortal Bard on his best day could not produce so many "LOLs" and popcorn jokes (?) as our resident redhead!!! To deny one who can make us laugh, albeit uncomfortably, day in and day out would be a true crime!!!

Besides, Groucho, you know that she cannot help it!!! With medical technology the way it was back in the 1840s when she was born, there was more than a fair chance that she would have developed brain damage in the womb (egg?)!!! It is entirely possible that her mother was kicked by a donkey or an elephant while still a fetus and therefore is not responsible for her current condition!!!

Fear not, Feisty One!!! I will defend your comedic postings to the death, or at least until I get bored with this site!!!

David Walker&AP: You are both pathetic excuses for human beings.

All of you....can we quit the name calling and threats and get back on track as to the subject? Please??? It's like listening to a bunch of kindergarteners arguing in the schoolyard! We're all grown-ups here (I think), so we might try to act like a grown up. The subject is the Republican Party and NOT Sarah Palin's child!!!

Thoughts from Cali

Oh yes, I went overboard by pointing out that Palin uses the thing ONLY to get votes.

Ya, she pulls him out for photo-ops and then tosses it back to the nanny so she can continue her tour. And the sad part is that all of your right-wingers are playing right into her little sympathy ploy.

She uses the thing as a prop to get more votes, and I'm the a-hole for pointing that out. Right . . . LMAO.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The right-wing party says every horrible thing you can think of about homosexuals and muslims . . . but how dare anyone say a negative thing out retards. Keep up the hypocrisy, it's what you are best at.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I love this comeback! Unfortunately for you I despise Mrs. Palin she's a waste of perfectly good oxygen, I was only commenting on your lack of humanity and obvious fear of others different from yourself (it's okay though I have an irrational fear of midgets)

Have a lovely day keep the hate alive!

x

One of the most intelligent exchanges I've ever seen on this forum :)

Here come the Republicans

Where? All I can see is Tea Bags!

If the president was a Republican with this sad record and state of affairs, the media and all libs would be howling....As it is, they cannot recognize almost complete failure...Of course, you can ignore the facts and just call people tea bags, if that is all your capable of.

And who, may I ask, got us into this state of affairs? Who seems to be getting us out of it?

Clwyd...Who expanded the Afghanistan war? Who decided to go to war with libya, without any authorization? Who failed to initiate any workable recession ending programs? Who wants to continue spending trillions above our countries income? Who keeps pushing socialist programs that everyone knows are not feasible??? I dont see anyone getting us out of it, and certainly not Obama or his leftist followers....

We decalred war on Lybia? When did this happen? I thought we were providing air support for a joint initiative that was supported by the international community. Oh well. How many ground troops do we have in Lybia? How many american soldiers have died in this war on Lybia?

Bryan...No, Tell me how many of our wars have been declared??? We were told that we would create a no=fly zone and that it would only be for a few days...Perhaps you just have bad hearing...or maybe it is a symptom of something much worse. "Support of the international community"? What about support from our community??? This war is not over, we dont know what will happen....we also dont know how many civilians we are killing....in this event that was to last a few days....It is a lie, and you believe in it.

Wow JA...where'd you get all that from? We're at war with Libya? Seriously? Gee, better alert the media. I think we all missed that one somehow.

The recession George Bush gave us through his hands off policies of no regulation of any kind did not, thankfully, become a depression, thanks to Obama's actions. The two wars Bush started will take a while longer to wind down, but at least there's a drawdown in place. The war on science..the war on women? well at least it's out of the federal sphere and limited to a few backward states now. That's exactly why this Republican field is, as one commentator put it (and he was a conservative), the "weakest since Wendell Wilkie".

Somebody tell me quick does J.A stand for Jack A$$??!! I would say it does!!!

AP...yea, when you drop bombs on them you are at war....All didnt miss it...but perhaps you did...try to catch up.

CC Very clever...Did you think that up all by yourself...or did your ten yr old friends have to help.?.. You two are children, and probably will stay that way...Dont bother me anymore please...

@Steven -- don't forget the oval office.

And all those GOP/TP candidates running for CIC also. Sorry Ben remember glass houses and rocks?

@Mo -- I wasn't the one who threw the first stone.

However, Ron Paul did serve in the military.

Ben sees everything as a challenge to Conservative supremacy. It's part of the mindset that goes along with seeing yourself as one of the few who are actually trying to salvage a society on the way to final annihilation.

Steven made a great comment about Congress that actually applies to America as a whole. Since Vietnam we've not been in a position where all of society shares the sacrifice of our warriors. The wealthy have almost no one in the game, and those who are went through officer's training and are at least that far removed from the most dangerous duty. The middle class as well don't have big involvement in our military, though more so than the rich.

This isn't a good thing. Having a broad cross-section of America with people personally at risk gives our society a healthy appreciation for the danger and a deserved reticence to put our soldiers in harms way. Not having that makes it easy for civilians to say "he's a bad guy, when can we start the invasion?" The heavy use of mercenaries such as Blackwater/Xe brings us even closer to a situation like King George III, whose Prussian mercenaries went down to memorable defeat to General Washington.

yes he did Ben ;)

too all the military vets I would like to take this moment to say. Thank you, regardless of your political affiliation, without y'all I wouldn't be able to come here and debate, so again, my most sincere thanks for all who have/are serving.

Also off the subject has anyone heard from/seen no jo no bo? I know something happened to her daughter but haven't really seen any updates?

John B

As usual you interpreted my meaning and intent spot on.

"WE", as a society, have not made the sacrifices required to ensure the continuation of our way of life (society).

There are many sacrifices each of us should make for our country and the military is just one path to service. Most are just riding along on the backs of those who do perform service for their country.

That begs the question; Should service for our country be mandatory?

"WE", as a society, have not made the sacrifices required to ensure the continuation of our way of life (society).

I'm going to have call Bull on that statement. This will probably get a lot of flack, but I'm going to have to call bull on this whole idea of the "great sacrifice" that our troops are making.

Let's start with this idea that the military is somehow allowing us to keep living the way we are...to keep our "freedoms". That's a load of crap. No one is taking our way of life. No one WANTS to take our life. This whole fear campaign that's been going on for years is just a way to control stupid people. We don't have a defense department, we have an offense department. Canada who just a few hundred miles north of where I am seems to be doing just fine without a huge "defense" budget and troops in damn near half the world. Why is that? Ron Paul has been screaming at the top of his lungs that this "hatred" is because of our offensive foreign policy not because of some hatred of "freedoms" we have. Because they don't hate the rest of the world with their "Freedoms".

I remember several years ago having a conversation with a classmate of mine who was in the military and hated it. Not the military itself, but "the situation". He said there were generally 2 types of people he met - the "I'm poor, don't have any other option" guy and the "I want to run for political office so I am in here to get some credibility" kind of people. To many of us it's a well known fact that the military sets up recruitment offices in poor neighborhoods, promising college education and great opportunities for people who sign up. Its a well known fact that they have been drastically lowering their standards to attract people.

VERY FEW are in the military just for love of country and this idea that to love your country you must go kill everyone else who "hates" us is foolishness. If anything we are hated BECAUSE of our military. This idea that we are fighting. I do tip my hat to those who do it for the love, but even many of them are misled into thinking that they are out there doing some good. And very few of them feel that way after returning from duty.

You know how I make sacrifices? That extra 10-20 K I get in freelance income every year...I report it to the IRS and pay taxes.

@Steve, Delaware

I will admit, most learn a greater respect after entering. However, you also run the risk of diluting the military with the same self-serving attitudes that are plaguing America. The military is about selfless service.

We want people who WANT to be in... not people who begrudgingly have to serve and will ultimately be a burden.

There is nothing more aggravating than chaptering a brand new soldier out because his attitude and life chooses are contrary to good conduct and military discipline. Babysitting these soldiers is a waste of money and time. Especially when we could be training soldiers who care and who's lives will depend on that training.

No, it should not be mandatory. Serving alone does not make one appreciative of our country.

Thank you Steven, a Veitnam vet.

@Emanuel

You have zero experience.

You ran into one ex-soldier in school who was disgruntled? Why don't you meet me at the gates of Ft. Benning so I can show you tens of thousands of these people who "don't" do this because they love America.

Our way of life isnt being threatened? Your not about to fall off of a cliff either, but that can happen. Is that not a real danger? If it's so safe everywhere else why don't you burn a North Korean flag over in North Korea?

Keep living in your fairy tale world, brought to you by your military.

P.S. Why would recruiting in poor neighborhoods represent a drastic reduction in standards? Does someone from a poor neighborhood not have the capability of serving honorably and with excellence?

Emanuel-

Let's start with this idea that the military is somehow allowing us to keep living the way we are...to keep our "freedoms". That's a load of crap. No one is taking our way of life. No one WANTS to take our life.

Ever think it's because of our military they wouldn't dare?

VERY FEW are in the military just for love of country

This is inaccurate at best, while I agree that there are the "poor" and the political types (we also need to add the gung-ho I want to blow sh*t up types too, those reasons usually come second to love of country.

You know how I make sacrifices? That extra 10-20 K I get in freelance income every year...I report it to the IRS and pay taxes.

Thankfully that won't cost you your life.

Emanuel: I joined the Women's Army Corps in1964 because I, as a female, wanted to do my duty to my country. I NEVER regreted the 20+ years that I put in both on active duty and in the Army Reserve. I don't want anyone to thank me (although it IS appreciated) because I did my duty because it was something I felt was important. I went to Viet Nam for a month as a stenographer for the "then" Secretary of the Army, and that was quite an experience. I can NEVER forget the fantastic experiences I had in the military and the memories will last me forever. There ARE people who join the military because they feel the call to do something a little extra for this country.....women in particular. I have to thank ALL women in the military, retired and on active duty....they are honestly there because they want to be. Those are the ones making sacrifices.

I couldn't agree more Sabot-

I will admit, most learn a greater respect after entering. However, you also run the risk of diluting the military with the same self-serving attitudes that are plaguing America. The military is about selfless service.

We want people who WANT to be in... not people who begrudgingly have to serve and will ultimately be a burden.

There is nothing more aggravating than chaptering a brand new soldier out because his attitude and life chooses are contrary to good conduct and military discipline. Babysitting these soldiers is a waste of money and time. Especially when we could be training soldiers who care and who's lives will depend on that training.

No, it should not be mandatory. Serving alone does not make one appreciative of our country.

Making military service mandatory will create chaos, those who truly don't want to be there will either disrupt the entire system and screw truly good soldiers out of well quite possibly their LIVES, there will be the mass exodus to places like Canada (see vietnam) it would only hurt us in the long run.

Steven

I agree with you wholeheartedly. One can't completely comprehend the price of freedom until he or she has made some form of sacrifice for it(paying taxes does not count).

"Since Vietnam we've not been in a position where all of society shares the sacrifice of our warriors." So says John B. from Des Moines. I don't understand whether John is talking about support for our troops since the beginning of The War In Viet Nam or after but I do know that the treatment of the Viet Nam Era military personnel by most citizens of the United States was anything from deplorable to indifferent. That being said, I don't think that there is a Viet Nam era veteran who draws breath that would tolerate public mistreatment of our present troops.

Here's a poll Ron Paul wins over Obama,there's alot more than this one

What the hell MSNBC wont let me put the tag in .Ron Paul hatters

www.outsidethebeltway.com/guss-who-does-best-against-obama-among-republicans-ron-paul/

I had to hand type it ,lossers

Rockkiller: The word is "losers," and NOT lossers. Additionally, I see so many people using "loose" in lieu of "lose." When something is "loose," it means that it's not connected securely. When you "lose" something...it means you misplaced something. Sorry to be such a grammatical wild woman, but it drives me crazy!!! Just saying....

Rockkiller: you are too funny. You really think your old man, he of the "gold standard" ancient worship, has any chance of winning even ONE primary in the quest for the republican nomination?? Right, because the nation is just clamoring for legal heroin and prostitution and a return to isolationism. Sorry but you go ahead with that lawn sign. it'll give your neighbors something to shake their heads at.

You think he wants heroin legal , Ron wants the state to have the choice to make their own laws , which is what the county was founded on , He wants to end the war on drugs ,and treat drug addiction as a medical problem then a criminal manner .

this will help this country by treating the problem other than making it worst ,

We are all free men so why can't we be free to make our own choices and learn from them ,If some one always tells us what to do or else , people usually do the opposite . I learned this from drunks the more you bitch about their drinking the more they drink.

So if all you what to do is heroin and you loss every thing ,kids , house , money and job thats your fault and you have to pay for your choices .even if it is with your life , others will see this and learn from and choice not to do it .Do you really think laws stop people from doing things they wan't . No it just make's it cooler to do it , because you become a part of something when becoming a drug user , A life style that some see as being cool.

rocckiller- You can try and explain to people until you're blue in the face, but some people just won't get it, there's two type of people that spew untruth's as AP did above.

1) there's those who have never listened to Ron Paul or heard the words that actually came out of his mouth instead they choose to listen to the talking heads in the media that distort the words to cause a frenzy.

2) there are those who would run right out and start doing heroin/prostituting if they didn't have the govt holding their hand and saying "no no you can't do that" you know like a 2 year old about to stick their finger in a light socket.

ya and when that two yr old gets shocked he'll know better next time .

I would think thats how MOST grown people learn.

You would think so anyway.

Nashville_fan

no point asking these "we've got no clue at all" crowd a reality base questions. just enjoy the circus show while it last.

We all have to prepare ourselves to hear how horrid of a job President Obama is doing. The GOP criticisms of our President will be constant, ugly, and untrue. IF the GOP ever gets around to giving the voters some sound ideas of solving the numerous problems facing our nation, perhaps then they would be taken seriously.

Their one and only idea is already out there. Cut taxes for the wealthy and all our problems will be solved.

If she had bought a big BUST instead of a big BUS she would have the nomination from the Old, Stale and Male crowd locked up.

Didn't Bristol do that already? She oughta know better than to upstage a Mom with a Trigger on her hip.

What's even sadder is that some regulars who are consistently are First, Second, or Third posters offer little of any real value. I see they are getting recognized for by being collapsed pretty quick now. Have they nothing constructive to do?

They will make first read - a second read or worse yet, a never read.

Missy, you got to my joke before me and made it better with the hair trigger,...

Good on you!

White Collar: Ok, could it possibly be that because we already know who the Democratic nominee will be, so the news is about what we don't know? Like who the Republican nominee will be? Nah, you're right, must be some kind of grand conspiracy again....

Can't wait to see that Motley Crew lined up on a stage for a debate. The camera crews will be having a field day trying to catch all the expressions as Palin loses topic in the middle of a sentence, Romney (not being able to make sense of it) does a Mitt face and agrees he agreed then disagreed with what she said, Bachman rotating her head like the star role in The Exorcist in order to stay ON camera, Gingrich talking about the good old days and Paul agreeing with him except the era he misses is 2 decades earlier, both of them collecting Social Security before ever getting into the race talking about how the upcoming generation of seniors will just love a voucher that gives them 1/3 the medical coverage those 2 now have available should they actually need it. Christy, following a trail of donuts trying to explain how he is going to balance a budget when one of his cuts intended to defund Hispanic Policy Research and Development Center to save the state $3.69 million, without anyone telling him the cost of unemployment coverage for 368 employees who would lose their jobs would cost apprximately $5.3 million, at least he would have Santorum's sympathy for not reading the fine print even though Santorum's problem is more a prevalent definition than fine print. Let's see if Gary Johnson makes it that far and if someone can get the rumor started that his advocacy of marijuana legalization (although I'm for medicinal use) can be twisted to Palin attempting to see his view by smoking some before the debate, thereby explaining why she loses her place when talking. Nah...the only thing cohesive about the GOPTP is the extraordinarily far flung weirdness. What will be interesting is the run of the Motley Crew through the Blendtec and to see what glop emerges as the Chosen Talking Head of Irrationality. Probably won't be Pawlenty, though...Talking Heads have to be consistent in the message and his fabricated southern accent still needs work.

Groucho:

Disputatious indeed! :o)

It is not often that I have to look up a word around here . . . so thanks for that . . . and also thanks for being a thinking American . . . you made my morning!

Groucho, the only hope we have is that most Tea Partiers hate Romney, and the Republicans are horrified by Ron Paul. Neither side is likely to hold their nose and vote for the other's candidate. Basically, we have three parties now.

(This opinion is the result of my personal research in my own focus group of family and friends.)

Amen to that Nash. When Groucho started posting, I was a little indifferent and sometimes butted heads. However, I come to realize I was wrong and Groucho you are indeed a true "thinking American".

Thanks

Great post Groucho!

I've heard this repeated many times before.

How is it that Republicans get elected at all? What kind of fools would vote for somebody that cares so little for governing?

The truth is most people will vote the way their boss or the company they work for tell them to vote, out of fear of losing their job. It's easier to vote against what you believe in rather than lose you job. Also the less informed voters will vote the way their community leaders tell them to vote, just to be liked. So they'll vote against their believes just to be liked. This unfortunately is how our country votes these days. really sad.

Only thing I would disagree w/ in your assessment of the TEA party.

I see them much more like "One flew over the Cuckoos Nest".

The patience have gotten loose in the asylum and the GOP is desperately trying to get them back into their padded cells.

Somewhat ironic given their position on health care.

I've never met anyone who voted for Nixon either. Funny how that happens.

Uh, Mo...your boss is in the voting booth with you?? I think you may be a wee bit unfamiliar with how the system works (hint: your boss, even your spouse, doesn't vote for you....doesn't even see your ballot.)

AP- I've never met anyone who voted for Rick Perry either but somehow that A-hole gets voted in over and over.

AP you are correct, but fear drives a lot of voters. The fear of their boss or company finding out how they voted is more powerful than what they actually believe. Kinda like you, you vote for the GOP/TP just for the almighty win, regardless of what you actually believe.

LOL: Think you've got the wrong poster. Read again. Will never, would never vote for the TP extremists in my lifetime. Neither have I ever voted for or against anyone, or even know anyone who would vote for/ against someone because I thought the "boss" would find out. Maybe I just don't know anyone that weak.

Bravo Groucho! Two of my closed friends have switched over the party lines and have exercised their critical thinking as you have.

I dont see how they are angry if they voted Republican. Look at Wisconsin, cuts were made. Look at Indiana, same thing. I would think that if people were elected because they were going to make cuts, then they made the cuts, how could people be angry? I think the people would be happy if the elected officials did what they said they were going to do. Dont you?

Voting is like driving? D is for drive and R is for reverse? What a simple mind. Kinda pathetic if you ask me.

Boy you guys are going to be funny just after election day 2012! Here in Michigan we have a loud public employee and union group. They make a lot of noise and slash the head lines. They how ever are the minority. Mr Snyder was elected to do what he has done, and the majority of us support him. So much so that he was asked to speak at the annual Michigan Commerce meeting starting tomorrow on Mackinaw island! in the end minority is still the minority. Unless you can prove to us Independents that there is a better way out of this than...election day is going to be a fun day.

yeah, they make a lot of noise and run recall elections too. Love those union guys! Boy you said it. Election day is FUN! (Chamber of Commerce...right. I'm sure they're a tough crowd too.)

When I was in vaudeville, I had a girl who visited me in Minneapolis. She also visited me in St. Paul. I called her the Tail of Two Cities!

The last thing President Obama is doing is IGNORING your eight listed issues. We Americans have a nasty habit of wanting things done NOW...we all are so impatient. If you look at FACTS, things are slowly getting better, and whether we like it or not - Republican or Democrat - such serious problems take TIME to either get better or solve. And IF President Obama had cooperation from GOP leaders, many of the issues would indeed get better. But, the GOP and their rich donors are doing everything in their power to MAKE SURE President Obama fails - even at the expense of our country.

K2mn..

I never said ignoring. I said he needs to start addressing them more aggressively and get congress to act on them.

Sorry, Groucho, for misquoting you.

K2mn..

No worries.

Thx.

Groucho the old saying comes to mind when reading your post. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Unfortunately the GOP/TP want to die of thirst. President Obama has been trying to get the GOP/TP to drink for 2 1/2 years it ain't going to happen.

K2mn, you said it:

If you look at FACTS, things are slowly getting better,

Most people don't have the time to watch the Obama paint dry. I would say for most people who are unemployed, or have lost their home, that this president is causing them to live a slow death.

START addressing?? Where have you been?

Spo: Really? you want the President of the US to give you a job and pay off your mortgage for you too? anything else? ( you asked that of Bush too? How'd that work for you?)

AP-1414066

Not only do people like Spo want these things done...they are pissed that the President did not do them within the first 6 months of his presidency. Even Mitt Romney, who is an intelligent man is now labeling the President as the "most ineffective president in history!"

This is from the guy who said that GM and Chrysler should be allowed to go bankrupt!

Insanity reigns over in the Republican Party.

Actually kr, a quick Google search will provide plenty of evidence that "Twilight" is actually Mormon theology placed into a fantasy world. Weak women who need a strong man to show them the way in life, that sort of thing.

http://www.sj-r.com/features/x466663776/-Twilight-author-s-Mormon-faith-a-big-influence-in-books-film

http://www.google.com/search?q=twilight+mormonism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

EWWWW....I had not heard that!! Ok, now that's really creepy.

JohnB: That's probably why so many of my Republican friends like the Twilight series so much....I didn't bother to read it myself (I'm a Democrat, but that shouldn't make a difference in what I read....I didn't read Henry Potter either). And, who really CARES what Romney reads...is that what's going to decide this election....who reads what?? Ridiculous!

Agreed...although any pol who can't answer that (Sarah, we're looking at you) ought to just be too embarrassed to be out in public. Come on. We want to know they are at least not looking to dancing with the stars for their public policy ideas ....

The Amazing Race, Dancing with the Stars, The Biggest Loser, American Idol, The Republican Primary. Which of these contests requires the least amount of skill or talent to win?

Try biggest loser. LOL.

It's my view and understanding that Palin is raising money for her PAC by getting supporters to think she's running. Her PAC has paid for her travel, expenses and who knows what else the last couple years; she's living high on the hog. Christine O'Donnell has done the same thing. Palin's been out of the spotlight and resents it. I seriously doubt she's running but she is getting money for her PAC because everytime she appears somewhere, there are plenty of her followers who will hand over donations. One would think sooner or later supporters would realize they might as well throw their money out the window as give it to her. Palin has learned the Newt Gingrich PAC trick well, suggest they're running and maybe throw the hat into the ring but pocket the cash for personal use all within the law.

Welcome to the Sarah Palin Family Vacation Tour of American History.

Paid for with your donations – Thank You

Thank God.

Hey. It keeps her occupied and we know how dangerous an un-ccoupied Palin can be.

(anti-socialism: you might have a bit more credibility if you at least learn to spell socialism.)

I don't care how many pages it is, it is all about content. I am more concerned about our elected officials voting for or against it without even reading it first. wtf? over

Bingo.

There is that misquote again.

Unsurprising since people love to twist the facts to something that more resembles what they want to hear and believe...

Surprisingly, all bills in the House and Senate are hundreds of pages longer than needed because the members require that they be printed in LARGE font. I kid you not. Repubs especially like to complain about the lengths of these "bills" but keep insisting on large print front.

Actually, Fancy, the Iowan Republican donors are going to New Jersey to see Christie, not the other way around...

"In New Jersey today, Iowa Republican donors meet with Gov. Chris Christie and his top political adviser, Mike DuHaime."

Pretty big difference there.

Reality Check-1104333

You love it. Conservatives are dyed in the wool pessimists. Calamity, doom, gloom, catastrophe...yippee!

Conservatives hate the free market, especially when it behaves like ... a free market.

They only like the "free market" when it means corporations are getting away with exploiting somebody (else.)

Could it possibly be because the big banks have never let go of the American People's short hairs? That they refuse to renegotiate value of said foreclosed properties for less than they thought they were going to make on them at the peak of their profitability?

This is about money. The banks bet and they lost but we are all paying their bill because they are billing us for their part too. It is their greed freezing up the markets.

Unwilling to cut Americans, their neighbors, a break on saving their homes they would rather the Nation go through this painful episode of their creation on its' own. As they sit on their sideline cash nests I hope they hatch a retribution by middle class Americans of the magnitude equivilant to the pain they've caused.

Killing the American dream for profit is their goal and they are well on their way to acheiving it. It will take years for the MARKET to correct itself. They need help. REGULATE NOW!

Thanks for the reality check, Reality check. I'm a home builder who is also living with the pain of this crisis but please tell us how it is President Obama's fault. Things are eventually going to get better but it won't be because Republicans are pitching in to help out. Bitching and complaining about it might make you guys feel better though.

How many homes did you help build and 'sell' during the bang up years of the oughts under W's fine leadership? Did you 'flip a lot of 'homes' on a cheap remodel to make a 'good profit' on your 'investment'? Banks holds that bag now, right?

It is not about feeling better, Tommy Carpenter. It is about getting us out of the HOLE that got dug from 2000 to 2008. I know you weren't but many of us were bitching way back then but no one listened. If they had we might have avoided much of their greed induced economic DIP of biblical proportions.

I'm not blaming OBAMA for anything. He is trying like He!! to make DC work. Not much help to be had from the opposition though.

Great work at 14.2, Missy. It's all part of the Conservative tendency to privatize profit while socializing risk for the wealthy elites. You've described the refusal to renegotiate values appropriately. There's no reason to deal with the reality of the situation as long as Wall Street can get us to make them whole and not hold them responsible for their part in crashing the economy.

There's a piece of this that's almost never discussed yet is critical to our recovery. Deregulation of the financial markets allowed greed to destroy qualification standards. As a result the market became overbuilt and home ownership reached a level that was unsustainable.

Unfortunately that means there's no way for the home building portion of the economy to come back until that excess inventory is worked out of the system. There's no way to do that until rising population demands that excess inventory and a recovering economy allows more people to afford mortgages. The recovery is hampered by that lack of home demand in a Catch 22.

That's the way it is. Democrats can't do anything about that. Republicans can't do anything about that.

It's all part of the Conservative tendency to privatize profit while socializing risk for the wealthy elites

That's it! Thank you thank you, for putting it so succinctly.

Missy: The only thing the Republicans wanted to do in the last election was to get rid of President Obama...that was their MAIN goal. They don't care about the middle class....they don't care about jobs or the economy. They only want to discredit our president and what he's trying to do. Instead of trying to sit down together and get something actually accomplished; they'd rather sit on their butts and whine and complain about what President Obama is trying to do and coming up with ridiculous solutions! The outcome is that they are only making themselves look stupid and the President looking better and better every day!!

contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan and part of the pay is tax free.

I love it Ben. Now you idiots are saying that the GOP/tp never promised that they would focus on jobs. I guess all those folks that voted for the republicans because of that just mis-heard what they were saying.

And the beat goes on.

Flashback?

Now that's funny. I don't care who are you are, that's funny.

"Pinwheels and choo choo trains"? Awesome!

Great post...better duck when the LR finish reading cause here comes the mud...

This will surely get collapsed LOL!!!

Very Funny. However, the Republicans jobs plan is to continue to lower taxes and that's a sad jobs plan.

@mitchj; white collar auto; reality check; alwaysfaithfull; joannasmith1; and others -- we need to exchange email addresses and communicate like others on this board. Since the server that first posts FR/FT on msnbc.com seems to favor certain posters, we could coordinate our posts as well.

ben, good idea, but to what end... likely many those you mentioned, as well as red, Ill, etc are paid by MSN. majority of posters here cannot be swayed by common sense, any more than the followers of end of world preachers change their minds. the sites will always be manipulated, with the liberal agenda taking precedence.

You missed the part of the conversation where CV admits that the Republican budget continues to increase the debt for DECADES, not bringing the budget into balance until the 2060s.

Oh yeah, that's not going to happen.

It is pretty funny but the whole thing could be turned around and the CV response to every single thing would be Cut Taxes, Cut Regulations

hey john/IA, how many votes did the POTUS budget get in the senate again? what spending cuts (besides disarming/disbanding the military) have been proposed by the liberal redistributionists again?

The Dems vote for the presdient's admittedly outdated budget proposal would have been largely symbolic anyway. Don't read too much into it. That's the dems saying no change is better than what the republicans provided. At least that's my take.

LOL...creative.

Bryan: what I've seen of the Dem's lately they haven't changed anything the Republican's provided and vice versa, both parties are nothing but hacks, it makes me physically ill.

mitch j

Here is a transcript of an actual conversation I had with a co-worker:

Democrat: How is everything?

Republican: I'm getting divorced.

Democrat: Sorry to hear that. This must be hard on you and your daughter.

Republican: Oh no, it's fine, the legal clinic helped me get a protection from abuse order. I'm getting housing assistance, fuel assistance, food stamps, and I signed my daughter up for free lunch at school.

Democrat: That's good. Say, did you hear that President Obama is in town this week?

Republican: Yuuuuck! I didn't vote for HIM! I would never vote for a libruuul!

(true story)

Amy you just said it all.

amy, i didnt mention repub or dem parties in my post. where is your "transcript of an actual disussion" relevent?

mitch j

transcript of actual conversation I had this weekend:

Tea Party voter: Taxes! I hate taxes!
Me (liberal voter): But I thought you got a tax refund every year?
Tea Party voter: Yes, I got $2000.00 back this year. But I paid $800.00 in property taxes.
Me: ohhh
Tea Party voter: and half of that goes to the local school!
Me: oh. But you have a school age child...
Tea Party voter: yes, and our school is terrible, I tell them that at the school board meetings.
Me: *speechless*

letter written to my Democrat US Senator:

Dear Senator,

Get a 2013 budget proposal drawn and get it voted on NOW!

I see Conservatives are determined to make sure everyone knows that Republicans will go to any lengths necessary in order to play games with the budget. No doubt voters will see playing politics with the budget as a viable alternative to actually fulfilling their constitutional responsibilities in the House.

That or you missed it when I pointed out;

Senators did not vote for President Obama's 2012 budget when it came up for a vote in the Senate Wednesday. Press TV's U.S. Desk asked Paul Craig Roberts, Former Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury to comment on this issue.

Roberts said, "The vote against Obama's budget was merely political theatre. It does not mean anything. The Obama budget that was voted down, was the original budget of last February, however last month in April, Obama suggested major changes to the budget. The Democrats are working on the new budget … but are not yet ready to submit it for a vote."

"All of the Republican budgets were voted down yesterday. In order to cover the embarrassment, the Republicans brought out the old Obama budget knowing that the democrats would vote against it because they have replaced it with the new budget that they are preparing. So it means nothing and it was merely political theatre."

The Republican budget proposal which was crafted by the Republican House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan would have turned Medicare into a private program but was rejected in the Senate.

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/181900.html

Alwaysfaithful: "overwhelmed"? Hold that thought for the general election and see where your propaganda gets you.

When you look at the 2010 election and you really can’t say that the majority of the American people have spoken considering that only 37% of eligible voters turned out for 2010 US election day compared to 56.8% of eligible voters turned out for 2008 US election day.

11/2/11 hasn't happened yet. If you mean 2010, it was all about low voter turnout due to the enthusiasm gap. Every poll showed the huge difference between "Registered voters" and "likely voters".

People hate the Republicans even more than they are disappointed by Obama and the Democrats. People like Rick Scott and Scott Walker showed that sitting out midterms has disastrous, destructive, liberty-stripping consequences. Obama is sitting on a 60% approval according to Gallup, while Rick Scott is at 29%.

One and done for the Tea Party. Unless there is some GOP enthusiasm for the candidates that we're all unaware of, people are more enthusiastic about reelection Obama than getting behind Romney.

Clotho, Very True.

That's like saying you lost the basketball game because you didn't score enough points.

alwaysfaithfull and

weaselyone

Republicans were elected in 2010 because the economy was floundering and they promised to "fix" that. Now gas and food prices are up, still no jobs, and what is the House debating? Medicare vouchers. Abortion.

lay off the Special Olympics. Those athletes have it head and shoulders above these clowns.

luGrnClrs: PLEASE -- its "lose" not "loose." See my post earlier about the difference.

Not according to the polls.

First off neither Huntsman or Perry has a chance of winning the Republican nomination, since the party has been hijacked by the extreme right wing, so neither is going to smash anyone. Secondly, you'll have to hold on to that fantasy about winning the White House with the only viable candidate from the right thus far, Romney, who is unacceptable to a majority of voters nationwide. It'll be Obama in 2012. Count on it.

All this blabber about health care being socialism, or Obama being a Communist, puts me in mind of the 1950s. Has everyone seen these pictures of white people protesting with signs saying that "Race mixing is Communism"?

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Racial fears keep surfacing. Progress is painful but necessary.

http://www.crymesyndicate.com/2010/04/documented-rights-race-mixing-is.html

They both agree with Paul Ryan that Medicare needs to be privatized with seniors paying at least $6000 per year for regular coverage. Obama believes that seniors have earned the right to Medicare coverage. Obama wins easily. Thanks Mr. Ryan.

I would love to just pay $6000 a year.

Urban Roman

You need to take a trip back in time. Maybe you can vote for Julius Ceasar. Republicans will lose in a landside no matter who they put up. The Tea Bags and Party of NO are the lost children of the Western Hemisphere. All talk and hot air.

yea, and the country goes bankrupt.

hilarious.

Taxing them more will not give us anywhere near enough money to save us. The tax cuts passed last year by both parties applied to all of us, not just the rich and did not help the problem. They will expire shortly. Many of the worst tax giveaways go to citizens and corporations do pay taxes It just that any deductions that corporations get more attention.