No Sacred Cows, except defense spending. Gutless position, but will be hailed as "Courageous" just like "Gutless Paul" Ryan.

The DoD budget has basically doubled the last 10 years, and now approaches a trillion dollars per year. THIS is the deficit driver, not Social Security or Medicare, both of which have a dedicated payroll tax for their funding. The DoD comes from General Revenues.

If T-Paw (rhymes with HaHa) had any real courage he would have a position to reduce the DoD by half, back to 2000 levels. Wasn't it republicans that proposed spending go back to about this point in time?

there are hundreds of bases overseas that foreign Govs make millions on each year ... bringing our troops home from these Luxury bases would be a great way to start trimming the defense budget .. the military needs to down size and can do it without putting our countrys defense at risk ... TPaw would rather throw grandma to the insurance industry to empower her to buy health insurance on the open market with a $5,000 voucher ..like Ryan

so the sacred cows of the dems should get the ax but not his or the GOP'S. this guy is a real piece of work. but it dosen't matter..........he will never be president anyway.

Tea-Paw (which rhymes with Hee-Haw) just showed his true cloros. Needless to say my respect meter for this clown just took a dive. EVERY agency in the federal government needs to contribute to deficit/debt reduction.

Unfortunately, the only programs the rethugli-cons want to cut are the programs helping the elderly, the handicap/sick, and the poor. Surprised Tea-Paw hasn't started singing for tax cuts for the wealthy and big business.

__________________________

Pawlenty concluded his remarks by saying that the way forward won't be easy. "Will it be easy? No, but it never has been easy. You know Valley Forge wasn't easy. And settling the West wasn't easy. And winning World War II wasn't easy. And going to the moon wasn't easy."

I knew George Washington and YOU, sir, are no George Washington. Maybe a Coolidge, but no Washington.

He has himself pinned as a Medicare killer and now refuses to save money on our bloated defense budget. President Obama is working on NATO, telling them that the United States has been using more blood and treasure than the rest of NATO members and then some. Let them ante up so we are not hobbled economically by the military-industrial complex!

So,

Tim Tea-Bag Paw would throw Grandma into the street, and let the disabled die, all in the name of increasing the Bloated useless Military industrial complex budget eh?

Remember this ladies and gentlemen, then send Tea-bag Paw a strong message by voting against this monster in the 2012 primaries... let Tea-bag paw know that throwing Grandma into the street is never the answer... EVER!!!

lets end this season of the mean, ladies and gentlemen, make sure the Democrats take back the House by a super majority and vote every Republican't Senator out of office in 2012 who is running, then continue the process till there are NO longer any republican't senators in the Senate. Lets make sure that the next job these soon to be defeated Republican't congressmen hold down is flipping burgers at McDonalds.

Its time to end the Season of the Mean.

Fiesty, The paid TROLL speaks again.

Murray and Selsky -- Good point at the end of the article:

World War II and going to the moon -- were achieved almost exclusively by the federal government and federal funding.

We could add a lot more things like infrastructure. But as Bill Maher and Lawrence O'Donnell have pointed out, conservatives are okay with government running the military, running education, running prisons, and apparently running entitlements.

That's because the United States has been a hybrid with some aspects of socialism for a long time. And this just goes to show that socialism is compatible with capitalism and democracy (unlike the plutocracy Republicans would like). And it goes to show that government has an important role to play beyond defense.

Which brings us to the fact that defense spending has doubled since 2001. Is there a reason we can't end our military mission in Afghanistan? Is there a reason we continue to subsidize other first-world countries and oil-rich countries by maintaining bases on their behalf?

Come on, all we need are drones, Stuxnet (not claiming responsibility mind you), good intelligence, and the Navy Seals. But seriously, the defense "sacred cow" shows Pawlenty's lack of sincerity about reducing deficits, and is a non-starter.

Our first clue why Pawlenty parrots the same old GOP talking points is his affiliation with Cato -- conservative intellectualism is an oxymoron (just like compassionate conservatism and withholding emergency funds for disasters). But the POTUS needs to represent all Americans, not just Libertarians--and fundamentalists—and neocon hawks. Pawlenty would be Bush/Cheney on steroids (with a little "gonna" Palin Speak in there).

And of course the newest talking point:

And he praised the House Republican budget plan -- authored by Republican Congressman Paul Ryan -- which would phase out Medicare for those under 55. "I think, in general, you know the direction of it is positive. But I'm gonna have my own plan, and so we're going to have some differences from his plan."

Hmm, will his plan be as despicable as the one he used to cook the books to make it look like he balanced the budget in Minnesota?

Now, now, now, just as so-called Libertarians (the Tea Party is a perversion of true Libertarianism) want to take union workers, federal workers, heck Americans workers down to the lowest common denominator of sweat shops and child labor overseas... We must maintain at least a two-party system.

Michael Moore said that bleeding-heart liberals need to stop telling Republicans they are running the wrong direction with the ball. But advocating the demise of either Party is anti-democracy, and progressives cannot lower themselves to the same pitiful standards (or lowest common denominator). Hopefully Republicans will go forward instead of backward in finding a new and viable platform.

How about that speech Cantor made to speculators (who artificially drive up the price of gas) about stopping Frank-Dodd regulations of Wall Street? Or his demand that cuts be made to pay for emergency disaster relief in flood and tornado devastated areas? Someone help the Republican Party, quick!

The "sacred cows" that are always on the table for the Rethugs, is anything that may help the people. The sacred cows that are never on the table for them, the rich people's tax cuts, the military, big oil and other subsidies. In other words, the people are sacrificial lambs always, and the rich are the only sacred cows and we better learn to bow down to them. They make me sick to my stomach, now they want to hold back disaster relief for all the victims of this crazy weather, for some new cuts to the rest of us. Corporate plutocracy always rules them and always will, they must be stopped now.

"So, first thing we have to do is continue to freeze the salary of federal employees – and, in my view, public employees more broadly -- until they're the same or no greater than the private sector employees."

This is but just one more politician with his head up his a$$ about middle class wage earners. I suppose he wants to look at charts like this:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/202662-disturbing-trend-public-sector-pay-outpaces-private-pay

and claim great ills about how high the public sector wages are. But, as the chart shows, what should be the real concern is that private and public wages tracked with each other until 2005 (GW)... then private income flattened and eventually took a steep dive. All this while public income just continued with a slight rise consistent with past trends.

So what he's saying is that the GOP hasn't harmed the public middle class like they have the private sector... and want to correct the error of their ways by now attacking the public employees.

At least they are consistent. They're attacking the wrong enemy again.

Dumbasses.

NO Sacred Cows! But a great big load of Bull!

I wonder how Tim feels about the Brahmin 2%? There's a lot of bovine fat there.

Like Grandad used to say, "All hat, no cattle!"

Obama/Biden 2012 No Bull (or Sacred Cows)

"It would be easier to pay off the national debt overnight than to neutralize the long range effects of our national stupidity" - Frank Zappa

So I guess it's time for you folks to tear another Republican politician to pieces...that'll end when another announces his or her intention to run for the party's nomination for president. Then that candidate gets ripped to pieces on this site...and of course, be given some goofy nickname.

"TeaPaw"...how cute. And how original.

But of course, a bloodbath is needed when discussion is held on any Republican or conservative politician...or human being...because it is so much easier to do than to try to convince people that the current administration is succeeding in straightening out this nation's economy, which it is not.

Someone above even writes about a wish that the Democrat Party gets a US Senate "super majority" and wins back control of the House in 2012. They pretty much recently had that type of control...and we're now $14 trillion in the hole and unemployment is over 9%. Actually, it was closer to 10% at the time of the elections in November. Yeah...so let's all pray to the deities that the Democrats take over DC again, since it did so very much for us last time.

Can't next wait to look on this site and see a female candidate termed as a "slut" or maybe a male being called something that ends with "bagger" or some other moronic insult...from the good folks of the Democrat side of the aisle, who seem to keep ignoring their wonderful president's call to be "more civil" just as he ignores that advice himself.

TONY 268.... Pawlenty gave himself the nick name T Paw on his twitter and face book account ... he did it to appear hip to the younger voters..so I guess he is the one so original and cute

I'm amazed how Feisty is frequently able to be the first comment on many stories, and even more amazed how they're able to get all the "likes" considering many of the posts are incoherent. Politically we're probably pretty similar, but Feisty really shouldn't be the spokesperson because their sarcasm is pretty weak, much less articulate.

That's fine...but "T. Paw" on an electronic account became TeaPaw because just naturally every pearl of wisdom has to have the "Tea" or "bagger" in it, to make it really "original and cute".

And no Republican candidate will ever appear to be "hip" to the 18 to 22 year olds who may vote because they are taught in the schools to believe that only a union-licking Democrat can ever be so.

Mr. Obama will again have the kiddie-vote firmly in his pocket, once again. He'll again be the master of "Facebook" and "tweets" so he can gobble up the votes of youngsters who basically get what they call "news" via those sources.

You know why Pawlenty is never going to appear to be "hip"?

Because he looks just like Gomer Pyle.

People forget that we started maintaining an all-volunteer military fairly recently. If we were willing to use the draft if/when there's a need, we would never spend so much, because support for war would plummet.

You stupid, stupid person. Yes, Obama caved in and extended them, but it was Bush pushing these sacred cuts for his rich base that went a long way to create these huge deficits. We're in really bad shape - really bad, and it's going to take cuts in lots of things and some tax increases also.

sfcret,

Like it or not, for better or worse in the long term for our country, they will forever be known as “The Bush Tax Cuts”.

If you believe that they are good for the US then you should be proud to call them “The Bush Tax Cuts”.

you mean the tax cuts that had to be approved before all the republicans stopped filibustering every piece of legislation? Oh yea, Obama was all for it and invented it, because its all his fault...

Dennis, I am ok with the Bush tax cuts, what I was trying to point out is that Obama extended the tax cuts so shouldn't his name be attached to it? (I am sure you are not the one that collapsed my comment, I don't quit understand why as there was nothing derogatory or nasty in it, just pointing out the facts.) Obama had the chance to veto the extension but signed them so I take it he agreed with them and it now has his name on it, for better or for worse.

sfcret

Dennis, I am ok with the Bush tax cuts, what I was trying to point out is that Obama extended the tax cuts so shouldn't his name be attached to it. Dimwit, it should be named the George Bush/Mitch McConnell Tax Cuts. NO EXTENSION OF UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS unless MY CONSTITUENTS, all 2% of them, keep their four TAX CUTS!!!!!

Chuck, you are really the dimwit and so is Obama. If you are going to fold under a little pressure from republicans, what is Obama going to do when it really gets tough. Maybe he just showed he can be a push over just like all of you liberals.

sfcret

drive-by- When are you liberals going to admit that it is no longer Bush's tax cuts, they are now Obama's tax cuts, remember he signed the law that extended them which means they are his. Can't blame Bush anymore.

What?!?! In order for Obama to get the unemployment extension he wanted - he had to concede extending the Bush tax cuts. I remember McConnell being very specific in wanting that if Obama wanted to extend the unemployment benefits.

So... in order for Obama to extend benefits for people who need it - McConnell wanted the extension of tax breaks for people who didnt. Thats when I no longer took republicans seriously with their fiscal responsibility.

So he essentially said this "There are sacred cows..." Gotta love political doublespeak.

You know, maybe we could afford all theses cows if we made some more money? There a lot of rich people who aren't helping us at all, why don't we ask those you are able to help to help?

sfcret,

I will disagree with your characterization of the record number of filibusters "a little pressure from republicans". The 110th Congress saw a record number of filibusters from Republicans (more than double the previous record), which is why Obama had no choice but to extend the Bush Tax cuts. There was no other way to extend unemployment benefits during the recession/depression. The Republicans were killing everything else unless the cuts included the top 2%.

Let's face it, you libs just can't stand the fact that Obama agreed with Bush and extended the tax cuts, they are now his and the democrats in the Senate. According to most of you libs Obama can walk on water and do anything he wants. Remember he was able to push through the stimulus bill and the HCR without any republican votes and his famous statement "I won, get over it."

He should have added, and imagining me as presidential isn't easy.

How about the "raising revenue cow", is that one sacred too !!?

That has been the most sacred of all their (you asked for it) HOLY COWS.

Groucho, you are a Marx-ist, who you kiddin'?

The old "I used to be a Republican, now they are extremist" rant...jumped the shark about 1990..

Bob-1887910

Groucho, you are a Marx-ist, who you kiddin'?

The old "I used to be a Republican, now they are extremist" rant...jumped the shark about 1990..

I'm still a republican just not the same extremist you are. It's people like you that are forcing us moderates and progressives out of the party. Your agenda is not the agenda of the American people and they proved that yesterday in NY. You remember when the party was the party of fiscal conservatism? Not radical budget cuts that impact only the socially impoverished. Take a look at the party. Just who would you vote for if you had to vote today? Do you support any of them? I don't. You need to resort to name calling to make a point or you want to post facts? By the way, MSNBC is now owned by Comcast. World War II was primarily funded by War Bond drives. Get some facts straight before you post.

I was working for the republican party when Barry Goldwater ran for president in 1964. You haven't a clue as to who we are and were. How we lost control of this party to radicals like you is beyond me.

Groucho Marx

I think it is for the same reason that little kids screaming for candy get what they want, you don't want to cause a scene in public. I can safely say that I tend to be liberal on many (but not all) issues and I REALLY hope that moderates get back in control of the republican party; I miss having a rational conversation with someone who I may not agree with ideologically, but can still see their point of view from a logical standpoint. Here's one liberal rooting for you Groucho.

AB from Ohio..

It's lonesome here, honest.

Hey Bob, republicans ARE extremists!! Who else would deliberately cause this debt crisis over 30 years just to privatize the entitlements. If you have ANY intellectual integrity, you will research "starve the beast" thoroughly!!! This GOP plan is truly treacherous!!

Groucho, very well put. Make no mistake, I am not a Republican or a conservative, but any common sense person can see your party is off the deep end with no lifevest. You can't tell me you need my social security, and medicare when you spending billions and billions of tax dollars on jet fighters,aircraft carriers,the space program. Mr. Pawlenty is as ignorant as the day is long. If he think's he's going to be president,he's even dumber than I think he is......that's pretty dumb too!

Groucho, I am socially pretty liberal and fiscally conservative I am a registered Dem. who will be looking at candidates the are moderate. I also believe that there is no longer a place for me in my own party. Yes it gets pretty lonely but don't give up. We need to speak up and let our parties know that we don't support the far-right or the far left.

Groucho, you are right about the war bonds being important to fighting World War II, but remember they were bonds, and the government did have to pay people back with interest. Of course, since the money went to regular citizens rather than corporations, the effect was trickle up economics! People used the money they got from the government to buy refrigerators, cars and houses in Levittown! It was certainly dicey at first. The government was in massive debt, especially since war bond sales were down toward the end of the war. The government also got a lot for its investment in the GI bill. These veterans ended up with much better jobs than their parents had, and so paid much more in the way of taxes with the increased salaries

I do hope that people study history to see what can be applied to today's situation. I do believe that if the spirit of compromise returns we can bring back the economy and cut the deficit.

Groucho Marx,

Sometimes I don't agree with you, but in this case I do. Well said.

Starclassic, I was with you until you mentioned "the space program". NASA is civilian, not military, the US Air Force has it's own space program for recon satellite launches and similar activities.

NASA provides more return on investment than most other gov't programs out there, and for only 0.5% of the federal budget ($18 billion). The US military spends that in a WEEK!

$18 billion is peanuts for all of the amazing things that they do and discover... leave NASA out of it!

Hey Tom in NH-294381

>>>

Hey Bob, republicans ARE extremists!! Who else would deliberately cause this debt crisis over 30 years just to privatize the entitlements. If you have ANY intellectual integrity, you will research "starve the beast" thoroughly!!! This GOP plan is truly treacherous!!

<<<

Let me see which party thinks everyone should own a home and enabled people to buy homes they should have never had, or could afford? Hmm. We are a country that has lived beyond its means for far too long(look at the amount of personal debt everyone carries, how can the government be expected to debt free when we as its voters & leaders aren't debt free???). Everyone MUST cut back.

This country cannot continue to support ALL of the handouts it is currently giving out, Lets cut EVERYTHING 10-25% across the board(including Medicare and Social Security). Raising taxes(which appears to be the Democrats answer to every problem) is NOT the answer as it would require EVERYONE to nearly double their tax burden to even start breaking even on this debt.

Bob, just out of curiosity, why do you post on MSNBC if they are so liberal, does Fox not have Blogs on their news vine?

Oh, yes, Retired- they have 'em. You think it get vile on HERE, you should hit the old 'Fox Fourms'.

Real classy citizens over there, as you might imagine.

Never been to the Fox news vine, their coverage is to slanted.

Real classy citizens over there, as you might imagine.

Are you referring to the ones who stockpile: ammo - canned food & gold? lol

Yup! Nothing says American like the stuck on stupid crowd!

I always wonder when I see some post by some of the people on the right, they degrade MSNBC for their liberal bias and yet here they are posting on what they believe to be a liberal site. As a liberal I would never go over to a Fox news vine to blog, that would only get me agitated.

I'm with Bob on this one...

"Then again, at least two of those -- World War II and going to the moon -- were achieved almost exclusively by the federal government and federal funding."

This is straight insult. In fact the whole article is attempting to paint Tim as two faced. He said that all funding should be on the table for discussion..followed by...in his opinion not all should be cut. This isn't even close to two faced.

Retired..."Never been to the Fox news vine, their coverage is to slanted" - really...really...okay...I'll ask...how do you know how biased the coverage is if you've never been there?

As far as the biased debate goes, I frequent both sites. Both obviously have biases, but MSNBC is by and far worse. That being said, I do prefer MSNBC's discussion forums more. If only the two biggest trolls would stop frequenting them...you know who you are...

Common Sense, you honestly think MSNBC is by and far worse? wow... they do tend to lean left yes, but they'll at least put up an honest showing of what the other side is saying. I'm pretty sure I've never seen the same courtesy and honest reporting from anything Fox. Kinda goes back to the whole Weapons of mass destruction, when the at the time President Bush even announced there were none at all, there was numerous national polls done and (the exact number is off here) but something like 65% people who identified themselves as regular FOX news viewers reported that not only was there WWMD's, but the US had actually found them.

Forrest Grump

"Did he say sacred cows, or scared cows?"

Maybe it was 'scarred' cows. You know- Palin, Bachmann, Angle, O'Donnell......

DBO--I don't like these conservatives you refer to, but as someone who supports women's rights, I reject your comment!

I'm with you until you hit on raising the retirement age and the flat tax. When you actually calculate a flat tax the only result is that the poor pay far more and the rich typically pay less, if it's one of the few rich that actually pay any taxes.

See what happened in Arizona recently. Just google "AZ flat tax" and you'll see what happened when they actually ran the numbers heh. Flat tax = poor tax.

I thought it was a joke too at first.....

Geez...he actually said that...

"Everything" will never be put on the table...even now, you see "Medicare" mentioned over and over and over again as a place to rty to make cuts...yet "Medicaid" is almost never mentioned, because nothing that has anything to do with "the poor" can ever, ever be mentioned without the 'mentioner' being immediately branded as evil or racist. No expenses having anything even remotely to do with "the poor" can ever be discussed honestly, like the crazy aunt locked in the attic that nobody ever discusses, even though everyone knows she is there.

"Lying teabagger"...how quaint.

The ethanol program is a joke. It's driven up the price of grain and meat, while also driving up the cost of gasoline...yes, ethanol is more expensive to produce tha gasoline.

The program also has driven up the costs and reduced the quantities of food produced here and provided to starving people in other countries...yes, they are receiving less food assistance from us.

And long term ? Corrosion experts are predicted a very high price tag to repair and/or replace metal piping that is rotting from ccertain chemicals found in corn. Corn is extremely corrosive to any type of metal and the oceans of the liquified product flowing thru piping during the entire process is rotting away the piping by the day.

But, being a typical government designed program, we will being blowing money to eternity on a forever increasing cost to continue a program that many are saying is a unproductive mess.