some in the GOP are getting the message ...we the people want our gov back and we want it sticking up fo women and seniors

I really don't care if some teabaggers are getting the message. I've got a message for them: So long, Chief! Do not let the senate doors hit you on the way out.

Here's to a very blue 2012.

Oh no !! the Republicans are demagoguing Ryan's plan !!

Americans are smart enough to be afraid of Ryan's plan, and won't vote for anyone supporting it. I guess you're not getting rid of medicare Ryan.

If nothing else, last week made it abundantly clear where Democrats stand on today's most pressing issues, and the picture isn't pretty. In case you missed it, the Democrats floated a plan for a millionaire surtax in an attempt to, as the Hill put it, 'force Republicans to accept other tax increases.' They tried to hike taxes on oil companies by more than $2 billion a year, because the industry is currently making big profits; and mounted a nationwide campaign to scare seniors away from Rep. Paul Ryan's Medicare reform -- including a new ad that depicts Ryan tossing a senior citizen off a cliff.

Detect a theme there? On issue after issue, Republicans are putting forward serious, sober and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems, while Democrats play class-warfare games and stoke the public's fear. To cope with the nation's gargantuan debt, for example, the GOP issued a budget plan that focuses -- correctly -- on reining in the government's runaway spending. The only thing Democrats want to talk about is how all our problems can be solved if we just raise taxes on the 'the rich.’

It’s about time the Republicans take the gloves off and address the dems class warfare games head on. Stop playing nice and trying to explain the benefits of the Ryan Plan without pointing out how the dems have already gutted Medicare with Obamacare. The following was in the Wall Street Journal.

Richard Foster, Medicare's chief actuary, noted in an Annual Report of the Medicare Board of Trustees, that Medicare payment rates for doctors and hospitals serving seniors will be cut by 30% over the next three years.

Under the policies of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, by 2019 Medicare payment rates will be lower than under Medicaid. Mr. Foster notes that by the end of the 75-year projection period in the Annual Medicare Trustees Report, Medicare payment rates will be one-third of what will be paid by private insurance, and only half of what is paid by Medicaid.

Altogether, ObamaCare:

• cuts $818 billion from Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) from 2014-2023, the first 10 years of its full implementation, and
• $3.2 trillion over the first 20 years, 2014-2033. Adding in ObamaCare cuts for Medicare Part B (physician fees and other services) brings the total cut to $1.05 trillion over the first 10 years and $4.95 trillion over the first 20 years.

These draconian cuts in Medicare payments to doctors, hospitals and other health-care providers that serve America's seniors were the basis for the Congressional Budget Office's official "score"—repeatedly cited by the president—that the health-reform legislation would actually reduce the federal deficit. But Mr. Obama never disclosed how that deficit reduction would actually be achieved.

There will be additional cuts under ObamaCare to Medicare Advantage, the private option to Medicare that close to one-fourth of all seniors have chosen for their coverage under the program because it gives them a better deal. Mr. Foster estimates that 50% of all seniors with Medicare Advantage will lose their plan because of these cuts. Mr. Obama's pledge that "If you like your health plan, you will be able to keep it" clearly does not apply to America's seniors.

Moreover, there will be additional cuts to Medicare adopted by bureaucrats at the Medicare Independent Payment Advisory Board. ObamaCare empowers this board to close Medicare financing gaps by adopting further Medicare cuts that would become effective without any congressional action. Mr. Foster reports that "The Secretary of HHS is required to implement the Board's recommendations unless the statutory process is overridden by new legislation."

The drastic reductions in Medicare reimbursements under ObamaCare will create havoc and chaos in health care for seniors. Many doctors, surgeons and specialists providing critical care to the elderly—such as surgery for hip and knee replacements, sophisticated diagnostics through MRIs and CT scans, and even treatment for cancer and heart disease—will cease serving Medicare patients. If the government is not going to pay, then seniors are not going to get the health services, treatment and care they expect.

Mr. Foster reports that two-thirds of hospitals already lose money on Medicare patients. Under ObamaCare it will get much worse. Hospitals also will shut down or stop serving Medicare patients.

The president's concept of spreading the wealth includes sacking the Medicare system, on which America's seniors have come to rely for medical care, in favor of others the president's progressive vision deems more worthy.

Everyone should know by now that Medicare suffers dramatic long-term deficits and unfunded liabilities, and is in need of fundamental, structural reforms. But effectively refusing to pay the doctors and hospitals that provide the medical care the program promises to seniors is no way to solve that problem.

I liken the democrat extremists like the radical islamic extremists that use people for human shields -- the dems are using seniors as human shields.

What the Dems are really doing is pushing the system toward the only viable option that will reduce costs, Single Payer!

Ben: Thoughtful, factual and realistic assessment. It won't stand a chance here. Too many want to fiddle instead of putting out the fire. In a relatively short time, it won't matter. Too many of our leaders would rather ignore the impending bankruptcy so they stand a better chance of being re-elected.

Bull - anybody have questions about Obama's Healthcare Plan should just read the plan. It's online - just read it and make your on decisions about it.

The Republicans aren't going to get out the mess they've created that easy. They've "cried wolf" too many times. Most people have learned their lessons and are not buying in to the Republican scare tactics anymore.

Before you listen to any of this garbage the Republicans are now trying to dump - read the Obama Healthcare Reform Act - it's online for anybody who's interested.

Wow, the Party of No finally said "No" for the right reasons!

I am angry at the Republicans for not playing as hard as the dems. There ought to be commercials showing the effects of obamacare with seniors waiting for hours upon hours to see a doctor and seniors coming to a doctors office with the sign on the door "No More Medicare Patients Accepted." That is a real scenario -- not one having grandma going off a cliff. Don't you think that Republicans have grandmas and grandpas and not nearly as rich as you think they are. They are not going to throw anyone off a cliff.

Where is the note that the Senate unanimously voted down the Obama budget today.

Just need to make note on both sides of the story.

Ben - I don't believe that the democrats tried to "hike taxes" on oil companies - they were talking about doing away with taxpayer subsidies, which are pretty hard to defend at this point to the average american. I suppose that could be twisted around such that it might look like a tax hike, but really, those companies are doing great - do we really need to subsidize them at all? I do credit Ryan and other republicans with putting forward ideas that are worth discussing, it's just that their approach to everything is always about cutting from those most in need, while protecting those sacred lower taxes for the richest citizens! Repeat - it's always about cutting aid to the elderly, the poor, the homeless, the jobless, etc. - but heaven forbid we even talk about raising taxes by even a few percent! It's just so transparent. Listen man - we are BROKE! We need to cut and cut, yes - but the richest of us can also pay some more. Let's at least go back to the rates before the Bush tax cuts. Don't want to raise taxes on people making 250K for fear of hurting small businesses? Fine - how about those making over a million? Why can't we go there? There are so many common sense things that could be done, I just don't believe that it can or should always be done on the backs of those most in need while refusing all tax increases. Some of us (maybe me) have to pay at least a little more, and many of us easily can. My 2 cents.

Interesting interpretations and opinion, Ben-636050. However, your interpretations are just regurgitated Republican/TP Inc. talking points that have no basis to make them accurate predictions or interpretations of the results of those policies being criticized. You've cited dates, figures and dollar amounts out of context and then put them into your own context that seems to show them in a bad, but inaccurate light.

No, I will not engage with you after this as, from what you have written above, it will not matter what I say, you will deflect, call me names and disparage my patriotism, work ethic and integrity. It is not worth my time. Besides, also from what you have written, it seems that you may be a paid troll since I have seen everything you have written in almost exactly the same language and form from other posters.

blah blah blah. With B/S rant like that you should be practicing in front of a judge. So according to you the way to save medicare is to eliminate it? Thanks chicken little but you'll have a hard time convincing the none comatose patients.

Ben, get a clue!

There was no 'millionaire surtax'. They were trying to collect money that these companies SHOULD have paid in taxes but did not cause they abused loopholes. Not an additional tax, just trying to get what they 'should' have.

"seniors waiting for hours and hours"

"sign on the door saying "No more Medicare patients accepted""

You DO know that 'ObamaCare' has not gone into effect and that those two examples you cite are caused by the EXISTING system, right? Right? Please don't tell me you are commenting on things you, apparently, know nothing about.

Not a Repub/Dem and I do not like Obama's Health changes. Mandatory bull. But, at least I am not gonna make crap up to make my point.

Gee Ben: what plan are YOU reading. LOL: THe Ryan plan turns medicare into a block grant for the states and you argue that's not dismantling it?? There's no other alternative here but to "save" medicare by destroying it?? The reason no one is buying that argument, even among mainstream Republicans, is because it just doesn't pass the laugh test. Especially at a time when Republicans have forced through further tax cuts, said big oil tax breaks and the military are off the table because THOSE sacred cows can't be touched...but you want us to believe your crocodile tears over the fate of medicare? As to whether the Republican Congress has a heart as well as a brain?? Well ask yourself...don't you think Republicans have women in their families, know women or are women? Why would they make an end run around the US Constitution and make an exception for the right to privacy where women are concerned? That's what they're doing by doing everything in their power to prohibit legal abortions by making them simply impossible to get. Birth control is another target of theirs and in some states, that's working as well. Now why a war on women? Because they value their far right idealogy and they think they can get away with it would be my guess. ...and in a few states, they are. No, the reaction to these moves are exactly right. NO MORE.

Folks, let's not forget that the Ryan budget was more than just the insane and purely ideological attack on Medicare.

The budget attacked, root and branch, virtually every limb of Federal government.

It was a wholly ideological attempt to fulfill the dreams of ultra-right, John Birch Society-style right-wingers accumulated since 1935.\

The ultra-right is far from defeated. it is blocked and embarrassed but still driven to pursue its goals: MR. SPEAKER, TEAR DOWN THIS GOVERNMENT!

The Tea Party is a pernicious blend of the militia movement, the age-old anti-government Libertarian movement, and in some places even the KKK (though they take out ads proclaiming otherwise). In the Tea Party movement we see elements of the old John Birch Society, the "Sovereign Citizen" movement (exemplified by No Jo), and the extremist anti-tax movement, characterized by the theme, "Taxes are theft."

Nowhere here will you find contributors to Mother Theresa's missions in India.

The Ryan budget was neer a serious attempt to deal with debt and deficit. It added $6 trillion to the deficit in the next decade. It wouldn't reach balance for another 60 years. THE RYAN BUDGET WAS ALWAYS A LIE - IT DID NOT JUST WANT TO WRECK MEDICARE, IT WANTED TO TEAR DOWN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

I am amazed at the vote on the Obama budget, and surely want more info about that vote. It isn't the "victory" the right wingers desperately cling to that they may divert the conversation about the bankruptcy of the GOP/TP fiscal account - there are absolutely political and process reasons on this score. But count on folk like Ben, a toxic substance controllable by the EPA, to try and wring some solace from it.

All the hypocritical electorate of the republican/teaparty are doing an ass-backwards dance in the end-zone on the Dem's side.....NOBODY WILL EVER TAKE AWAY MEDICARE FOR THE ELDERLY,DISABLED.....PERIOD!...We'll have to sustain medicare for the long run(TAX THE RICH)......The Dems. are going to get back their Majorities in both houses & the President will be reelected by a landslide,2012 will be a a good year for the working class people,unions,poor,elderly,disabled........POWER TO THE PEOPLE!....Obama/Biden 2012...YES WE CAN!

TO: Ben-636050 who wrote: “I am angry at the Republicans for not playing as hard as the dems. There ought to be commercials showing the effects of obamacare with seniors waiting for hours upon hours to see a doctor and seniors coming to a doctors office with the sign on the door "No More Medicare Patients Accepted." That is a real scenario -- not one having grandma going off a cliff. Don't you think that Republicans have grandmas and grandpas and not nearly as rich as you think they are. They are not going to throw anyone off a cliff.”

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ben, it isn't that Republicans haven't "played it hard" because they did. The fact is, the American People just DISAGREE with Republicans.

By the way, people know you made that stuff up, and there are no “real scenarios” nor are there any real stories of anyone waiting for hours waiting to see any doctor because of HCR, and there are no signs on any doctor’s door telling anyone to go away.

Republicans are NOT making any points with the Majority of the American People by refusing to listen to the Majority of Average Americans who are sick tired of being the only ones paying these Big Bills. So long as Republicans continue with these Big Tax Giveaways to the richest businesses in the world and refuse to take taxes back to rates they were under President Clinton, and being that the Tea Baggers failed to deliver on their JOBS, JOBS, JOBS promises, combined with Paul Ryan's plan to just confiscate our Social Security and cancel our Medicate, I think it may be pretty difficult to get another Republican into any office with such a devastating record of 100% undeniable failures.

@JohnA -- I don't know enough about the vote on the obama budget to comment either. But maybe -- and this is coming from a conservative -- just maybe the democrat-controlled senate said ok we shot down Ryan and we shot down obama -- now do you want to sit down and hammer this out. If it was, then I'd tip my hat to the dems.

Cut Bennie some slack will ya?

It's not his fault he likes to play fast and loose with FACTS!

He also has a propensity for 'uh hum' borrowing thoughts that are NOT his but claiming they are! ;o)

eight is enough -

but heaven forbid we even talk about raising taxes by even a few percent!

It's about 4% . . . going back to the rates before Bush. Yes, a whopping 4% is what the GOP is fighting against. FOUR f***ing percent.

John A -

It was a wholly ideological attempt to fulfill the dreams of ultra-right, John Birch Society-style right-wingers accumulated since 1935.\

I wish I could remember where I read it, but there was a very good article written about the John Birch society influence on the Tea Party. It even included the Birch Society books that Glen Beck had all his followers read. A scary and honest look about the real influence behind the right-wing movement.

Ben -

Or should there be a coming together of the minds that will address spending and deficits in a meaningful way? I say tax the rich more. I say end the oil subsidies. I say cut back on defense spending. Now what say you? What will you give up?

First, the GOP/TP has already stated that there will NOT be a "coming together of the minds" . . . they flat out refuse to compromise. This is your party, REFUSING to work together with Dems. They have stated it is their way, or no way. Don't you feel proud?

Second, taxing the rich, cutting oil subsidies and defense spending are liberal platforms . . . don't try to steal them and call them conservative. Your platform is to replace Medicare with a voucher that increases at 3.1% each year. Medical costs increase at 3.9% each year. So as the years go by, your voucher covers less and less . . . what happens when they can't afford the care? What do we do with them?

@Feisty -- I said the following was in the wall street journal in my post. I didn't write it.

Easy there Benny - I wasn't talking about this particular post, I was referring to your 'sticky fingers' in the past! ;oP

David Noah,

What about those who lost most of their retirment investments in the crash? I would say that those people were planning ahead for retirement & lost it through no fault of their own. I guess no one else is as smart as you.

Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance.

Ben -

You may be willing to give in on some things to start the conversation, and some GOP reps agree with your stance. However, the Tea Party has stated that they refuse to compromise, and any Republican that does will be removed. People need to be willing to compromise before they can start negotiations . . . as it stands, half the GOP base is not willing.

Ben:

The Ryan plan has one saving grace: it called attention to the Medicare problem. That's it.

Let's look at reality. In the last six or seven years, medical insurance premiums have doubled, even as co-pays were rising. Mind you now, those are "good" risk customers. They have been cherry picked, so to speak.

When statistics clearly show that the highest medical expenses occur at the tail end of our lives. Those senior citizen "customers" who will now be able to pick and choose as they waltz down "Freedom of Choice Lane" will be treated like cherry pits.

The voucher that Ryan promises will be a joke. NO insurance company can afford to offer a policy that will be covered by those vouchers. Come on Ben, actuarials know all about this stuff.

Given the current rate of inflation in health care insurance, under the Ryan plan, people who are now 55 can expect to see insurance costs double by age 62 and almost double again before they hit Medicare age.

It is either insane and/or outright stupid to suggest that we can meet the health needs of our seniors and soon-to-be-seniors by killing Medicare and giving more money to the already ridiculously wealthy.

Ryan's plan is not cynical, it is impossibly stupid.

Again, yes we have a problem with Medicare, but Ryan's plan is not a solution in any way, shape, or form.

Tough Luck, Paul!

Guess you'll just have to find some others a whole lot weaker to bully and abuse...

Try your local school yards; Grandma & Grandpa won't be going over any cliffs!

Ben-636050

I am angry at the Republicans for not playing as hard as the dems. There ought to be commercials showing the effects of obamacare with seniors waiting for hours upon hours to see a doctor and seniors coming to a doctors office with the sign on the door "No More Medicare Patients Accepted

What are you talking about, I am a cash paying patient and I have to wait. It called they are BUSY< EMERGENCIES HAPPEN>

List of offices where this ACTUALLY happens, the sign on the door????

Feisty Redhead,

"Yes indeed, X do mark the spot...". Just great wit out-done only by intellect, Congratulations! Another way of saying it is, gotcha now you SOB's, but it is not nearly as eloquent or 'biting'!

Guys ,guys. Let the ultra libs win this one, and when the next report comes out that they vastly under rated how much Obamacare would cost Meddicare, and that the money will run out much sooner, everyone will know who to thank.

Keep on pushing that status quo agenda. It's working awesome so far....

David noah, do you even know what COLA is or the reason why those on S.S. didn't receive it? I'm not going to tell you, because maybe you'll move your butt and look it up and not sound quite so uneducated.

Ryan's republican plan (if you can call it that) wouldn't affect someone like me since I'm over that 55 limit, but it would affect my child, nieces, nephews and it most certainly does destroy Medicare as we know it. It's just another scheme to give a little money to insurance companies who could make the deductible on a senior citizen whatever they wanted to and screw them over.

Sure there have to be big cuts "everywhere," but why should all of them be on the backs of the poor and middle class. The republicans just voted down taking away subsidies from oil companies, for gosh sakes. And they don't seem interested in touching big farm "corporations," and the most wasteful defense contractors. No, they go after unions and government workers pensions and anything and everything having to do with women.

I have an idea, republicans. Why not take away all the pensions and free health care for all members of Congress, present and former, all presidents, v-ps, Secretaries of whatever and add that money to the pot? They should have some "skin" in this game also.

But, I thought Republicans were against "death panels"? lawl

Wow, the party that throws the term "party of NO" around so freely is saying NO? Harry Reid and clan is once again, standing in the way of progress as he and the Democrats have done many times before and continue to do today.

Fact of the matter is Harry Reid and the Democrats are costing Americans BILLIONS in revenues ANNUALLY. Big oil pays 18.75% in royalties for off shore drilling. Mining gold, for example, pays Americans 0% in royalties even though gold is over $1,500 per ounce. We own the land and mineral but don't get a dime out of it since Harry Reid has blocked every attempt to charge the mining industry the appropriate royalty owed to you and me costing Americans BILLIONS ANNUALLY. Imagine that, all of those public sector union jobs could be saved. But nope, Harry won't save your jobs, he wants the campaign contributions the mining industry gives the Democrats. All of you teachers out there that are about to loose your jobs, well, blame Harry!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Yes indeed, 'X' does mark the spot now don't it!

Shoving Grama & Grampa off the cliff is not going to sit well with voters in 2012!

They might be old but, their NOT stupid!

Wow, the only "stupid" people are those that believe Ryan's plan would hurt Grama & Grampa. Pushing Grama off the cliff in that misleading ad was quite funny. It belongs with either Tosh O or SNL.

Here's the kicker, what Ryan is promoting is exactly what Clinton's panel of experts recommended during his term. So the Democrats are bashing their own ideas from the Clinton era.

michelle-1073610

What the Dems are really doing is pushing the system toward the only viable option that will reduce costs, Single Payer!

We have a single payer system already in place...it's called Medicare. How is that working out? Michelle what I think you are saying is you want socialized medicine. Who else could this single payer be? You want to make all the hospitals government owned and all the doctors government employees and this is going to save money or make healthcare better? No thank you. I prefer having my freedom to choose the doctor I want to see and the care I receive.

Single payer or socialized medicine won't reduce costs, it will just increase taxes.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Shoving Grama & Grampa off the cliff is not going to sit well with voters in 2012!

You're right...we should have advertisements showing the democrats shoving small children off a cliff...that will be much better. Because, by ignoring that medicare needs drastic changes as well as spending that's exactly what the democrats keep doing by kicking the can down the road.

952liz

Bull - anybody have questions about Obama's Healthcare Plan should just read the plan. It's online - just read it and make your on decisions about it.

I've read it and realize that it doesn't accomplish anything toward cutting the cost of care. I also realize that the additional medicare provisions it establishes will break medicare.

Ben's cut and paste from the Wall Street Journal article is accurate. What's really telling is that the Trustees report that shortened the lifespan of Medicare by 5 years last week...and that takes into account Obama's reductions! What most don't realize is that if these reductions (in what is paid per procedure to doctors/hospitals) are approved, many doctors, especially the good ones, will discontinue seeing medicare patients or limit them. At today's rates of payment, doctors lose money, or barely break even by seeing medicare patients and the dems want to reduce that by another 30%?

Last years trustees report stated that it was based on the assumption that Obamacare would be enacted, even though the reductions "were not feasible".

John A.-400474

Folks, let's not forget that the Ryan budget was more than just the insane and purely ideological attack on Medicare.

Folks, let's not forget that the HCR bill pushed through by Reid, Pelosi and Obama is more than just insane and an ideological attack on the future of healthcare and medicare in this country.

Politicians doing the ostrich thing. So sad to see them sell the sheepple down the road. They get their campaign money, they get to vote themselves raises, they do not have to worry about medicare ( they have their cadillac plan ) and all of them belong to the elitist rich class that wants for nothing.

While we can expect S.S. to be broke when we go to retire, if there is any Medicare money left ( doubtful ) the medical coverage we be minimal. Sad the cheerleaders of the financial destruction of America can not believe that the words coming out of the rich politicians mouths are lies.

Go back to rooting for your side - red / blue whatever. Grab a cold one and a stogie, turn on dancing with the stars and switch off the logic.

This is to ben you say you are willing to give in on these issues about tax and cutting mil. spending. you are only one person that might be willing to do the compromising. I'll even give that to you. But the repub/tp will never give in. so your talk is real cheap.

feisty redhead -- give em hell feisty!

Hey Red- y'gotchya protective gear laid out for tomorrow in the trenches yet?

Sure do!

Just picked up my haz-mat suit from the cleaners! ;o)

You gotta love Rand Pauls position, he can vote against it saying its not enough. Best of both worlds..

How much further can you go than Ryan's plan? What does Rand want, and end to medical care?

The wall streeters have manage to so demonize the word socialism that the conservative rank and file won't even attend barn raisings any more. Socialism does not = red menace, no matter how many nits believe it. Many parts of our civilization would benefit from socialistic procedures. Hell, civilization itself is a form of socialism.

Did anyone catch the socical security rates being decreased from 6.2% to 4.2% when extending Bush tax cuts?!?!

Employers should implement the 4.2% employee social security tax rate as soon as possible, but not later than January 31, 2011. After implementing the new 4.2% rate, employers should make an offsetting adjustment in a subsequent pay period to correct any overwithholding of social security tax as soon as possible, but not later than March 31, 2011.

In a time when they are complaining about the Social Security is going insolvent, they want to reduce the revenue going into the fund even more. Nice one.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the COLLAPSE COWARDS -- you have managed to DOUBLE my vote totals!

Thanks again you flag pin wearing hypocrites! :o)

sickenedtothecore - I am with you 100% We have to start thinking of how to get our house in order. I will throw myself out there for ridicule by saying I believe we need to raise taxes for a bit while reducing spending programs. We need to figure out how to help the truly needy while screening those who feed off the working class. I see where Europe is not happy with us for not footing more of the bill in ME but oh well we need to take care of our own first. Big American corporations need to step up and have values other than the bottom line, this is all our country.

Sickened to the Core and Gary: Thanks for your comments. As a conservative, I run the risk of being labeled, but glad to see I am not alone. Both political parties have shortchanged America....but I don't necessarily blame them completely. I blame us as a people. We have allowed them to become corrupt, deceitful entities that thrive on power. We want to be taken care of by the government and render ourselves void of any responsiblity. We march for our "rights" and scream for the budget to be balanced, so long as it is not on OUR backs.....don't touch MY welfare, MY Medicare, MY pension. We all want to take, but give nothing and make no sacrifice. We have divided into groups and forced politicians to pander to groups such as Latinos, Gays, Seniors and Women as individual causes rather than as one nation. What has happened to our once great country? Sad, indeed.

Tough Luck, Paul!

Guess you'll just have to find some others a whole lot weaker than you to bully and abuse... Try your local school yards.

Grandma & Grandpa won't be going over any cliffs!

If they would close the tax loopholes they would generate $ 1.7 trillion dollars a year in revenue, however they won't even consider that option because they say that that is the same as raising taxes. The truth is that if they would close those loopholes they could lower all the taxes down to at least 20% or less and they would still be in a surplus. If you didn't have all those write offs, you could lower taxes and save social security and medicare both. You still would need to focus on government spending reform. Closing those loopholes would would be a 100% guarentee that we would overcome our debt and it would only take 6 to 8 years to be 100% debt free.

I know we need to give, but lets start at the top and go down, not at the bottom and never go up. Period. The rich feel it a bit and the middle class feels that their giving is worth it. Think about it whoever you are.

Had enough - that is precisely why I say, they extended the tax cuts - sort of. What they did was cut the SS withholding and shortened the 15% rate bracket so you pay 25% sooner. It actually works out to a overall slight tax increase to those earing something like 18,000 per year or about $9.00 per hour. Democrats never give everything they say - and republicans are naive enough to believe what the democrats tell them.

Something has to be done and soon. Social Security is now paying out more than it receives...yeah it has a couple triilion of reserves held in U.S. Treasury Bonds...so when it has to redeem those bonds where does the U.S. Gov't get the money to redeem them???

We are already ruiing a defecit so the answer is we have to borrow it...from the Chinese...or Japan...or OPEC. And if they don't want to lend to us?

Let's take it from the rich! We don't just tax them...we take all their money, stocks, cars, houses everything...how much would we get? According to Forbes (see partial article below) if we got all of the wealth of all the richest Americans (the billionaires) we would get $1.6 trillion (37% of $4.4 trillion)...and let's see this years defecit...just this years defecit...is around $1.3 trillion...so we could cover this year with a little left over! Now next year we could go after the millionaires...and after them...WHERE DO WE GET THE MONEY THEN?

When taking everything from the richest people in America barely covers this year's defecit...IT'S TIME TO WAKE UP! WE HAVE TO CUT SPENDING NOW!

PARTIAL REPRINT OF THE FORBES ARTICLE

Forbes

The World's Richest People
World's Billionaires
Luisa Kroll 03.05.08, 6:00 PM ET

For the first time ever, the number of billionaires Forbes could identify crossed into four figures, reaching 1,125. The total net worth of the group is $4.4 trillion, up $900 billion from last year. Despite the turbulence in the U.S. markets, Americans account for 42% of the world's billionaires and 37%, of the total wealth; those shares are down two and three percentage points, respectively, from last year.

Joe, what's your point ?????? Ken you sound like you understand the problem. Trying to be EVERYTHING to EVERYONE, with others money

had-enough-470242

Did anyone catch the socical security rates being decreased from 6.2% to 4.2% when extending Bush tax cuts?!?!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is the real reason the Republicans are trying to dismantle Social Security and Medicare. If they can "privatize" SS and Medicare the employers would keep the money they now pay into it. If they put people back to work the SS system would still take in more than it pays out but the trillions of dollars that was in the fund was spent by the politicians and now they don't want to pay it back.

Once again I have to express my appreciation for Congressman Paul Ryan for personally driving a stake through the heart of the GOP/TP.

I guess it will leak out eventually so, we might as well admit it now.

Paul Ryan is a deep cover agent of the Democrat party. His assignment was to infiltrate the Republican party and plant a "poison pill" that would destroy the party and it's hold on the soul of the American people.

Good work Congressman Ryan, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! With your single selfless act you have shown the people of the United States the true agenda of the GOP/TP.

Of course, your efforts, like those of Seal Team Six, can not be officially recognized. No ticker-tape parades. No civilian service awards. No Congressional Medal of Honor.

But we, the people of the United States, owe you a great debt of gratitude.

Obama/Biden 2012 Way to go Paul, thanks to you it's in the bag!

OFF "Comment collapsed by the cummunity", it sucks!

Wyngs, you are somewhat mistaken and confused. I don't need the GOP demonizing socialism to me. I know what socialism is and it is not good. Basically, we all work for the good of the people. They lazy stay home and eat off the work of those who want to work. The rich stay rich and make us buy their goods and services. The government leaders reap a lifestyle only the rich and government officials can have.

Where is socialism working? Name a country that is better off than America that has a socialistic system. There is not one.

Well Diz, I think to answer your question you first have to define "better off".

Not everybody defines "better off" the same.

The Swedes have free medical care, free college tuition, and much more. Now the "free" part is a relative term because their tax rate is almost 50% to pay for it. But the majority of Swedes like the system and support it. I think a majority of Swedes would say they are "better off" than us with our ridiculous high medical costs, etc.

Like I said, it's all relative, so give us YOUR definition of "better off".

I really wish people here would get off their talking points and actually think for themselves INSTEAD of letting other people tell you what to think. You would find out that the Ryan plan, while a bitter pill to swallow isnt all that bad, and does address some, but not all of our problems.

I will say one thing though... At least the House Repubs are doing something. Where is the Senates Ideas ?? Harry said after whatsher name won in NY that its a sign the people want more Obama type policies.. Well show us.. You have said no to every damn budget proposal that has come your way. You have said NO to every damn spending cut thats been proposed. You said that a 1 percent cut, when we are having to Borrow almost 50 cents for every dollar we spend was too much.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

Well Diz, I think to answer your question you first have to define "better off".

Not everybody defines "better off" the same.

The Swedes have free medical care, free college tuition, and much more. Now the "free" part is a relative term because their tax rate is almost 50% to pay for it. But the majority of Swedes like the system and support it. I think a majority of Swedes would say they are "better off" than us with our ridiculous high medical costs, etc.

Like I said, it's all relative, so give us YOUR definition of "better off".

wow skip, just wow.. you really think they get FREE anything? Let me clue you in on something here, NOTHING in this world is free. They pay for everything they get via taxes, but lets get back to the real point.

http://www.indexmundi.com/sweden/demographics_profile.html

There are the demographics for Sweden.. 9 million people in said country... United States has over 300 million people. HUGE Difference, and if you cannot see that then you are truly hopeless. STOP trying to compare the US to Sweden... Its like comparing a gold fish to a whale.

Ya, SOCIALISM so great. I would like America to look like Venezuela or Cuba. And BO and The Dems are working very hard to make that dream come true for all of us. Vote for the Democratic National Socialist party (DNC)

Well Jeremy I think you and I suffer from the same reading disorder. I clearly stated in the portion you quoted that the Swedes tax rate is nearly 50% to pay for all their "free" services. Despite that I believe the majority of Swedes (my opinion) like their system and would consider themselves better of than us.

Re-read what I said. I qualified my statement.

Still no definition of "better off" from Diz.

All Senate Democrats voted no.

What's this? Party of NO and not proposing any ideas of their own???

Ultimately I think medicare is 70 percent waiste but their are a lot of folks like my father who vote and depend on it.

Thinkforyourself,

70% waste how in the world did you get there, it already is less expensive than private insurance? Does that mean private insurance is 80-90% waste?

jkh

If you actually listened to Ryan or read his plan, he specifically says the plan will not change a thing for people 55 and older, so your father need not worry. However, Medicare as it is will go bankrupt in less than 10 years - and THAT will affect your father, and not in a good way. If all of you would put down your cups of koolaid and pay attention, perhaps something good will happen. The Dems don't have a plan.

Waste? What about the 25-30% overhead in private insurance companies? What about the Shrub not negotiating w/Big Pharma for reasonable med prices for seniors?

Don't forget the lovely anti-trust exemption that health insurers have regarding competing across state lines and have individual payers! I can buy car insurance from anywhere at a rather competitive price, but heaven forbid that one could do the same with health insurance.

At this point, I'm ready to go as far as revoke the for-profit corporate charters that these companies operate under. I tend to think that as soon as health insurers could switch from non-profit and started worrying about appeasing shareholders more than expanding coverage, things started going down hill.

On TV yesterday Sen Boxer said Medicare has an 1.5 % rate for expenses, while private insurance has over 20 %. Much of our health care dollars go for all the TV ads we see. One item not mentioned was the fraud that some Drs. and Medical companies commit when they over bill medicare. We should make the penalties more severe. When Bush passed the drug benefit written in the bill was that Medicare could not negotiate for cheaper drugs. Why? Sounds stupid to me. Is the government so rich we can afford not to get the lowest prices we can?

Jim:

An important note re LESS EXPENSIVE. Who do you think is paying for the rest of the costs for the provided care? My mother brags about the fact she pays a couple dollars for a doctor's visit and a couple dollars for her medications. She compares these costs to my family costs. And who do you think is paying the rest of her real costs? The rest of us are paying. There is no free lunch!

I dont mind paying to help other people.I support that more than killing innocent civilians. Call me ignorant or a socialist? I dont care. My wife and I are not rich,we make an honest living and raise our three kids as best we can. We donate our clothing and old cars, we give at church. We pay taxes and we dont complain.

There are things government does that scare me,the least of which is Medicare.

It really amazes me when I meet people who are far above my station when it comes to income and they complain about the government taking their money.Kids in private school,multi-million dollar house, heated -salt water swimming pool. I dont have a problem with people making money,but really? You are going to complain? Give me a break. These people talk about the struggle they face and take 6 vacations a year, 3 in thier secluded cabin and 3 in their beach house. Must be nice.

Dont get me wrong, those are my goals also.

The only waste in Medicare is the billions in fraud that republican CEOs like Rick Scott perpetrate on Medicare and the American people.

I think the 70% he is talking about is the people who abuse the system. Don't know the figures but I have lot's of family members that get way more than they should be entitled to. Doctors abusing program is probably another large percentage. Lower medicine costs and the right to find the cheapest health care would be helpful.

The Democrats have no plan. Medicare will be in even worse shape because of the Healthcare Bill. So far, the Democrats, including our president have lied to the public about Ryan's plan and continue to kick the can down the road. Wake up folks and pay attention. Ask yourself why the Dems have no plan at all while they purposely distort Ryan's plan. At the very least it was a place to start, but the Dems only want to use the misinformation to panic the uninformed public into thinking the Republicans are out to kill them off. The Democrats have no plan period. What are we going to do, wait until this country is insolvent?

A national health trust is what is needed, I guess that could be a single payer system but could still leave room for private insurers if one so desired. There is some waste no doubt and overbilling no doubt in medicare that always will be the case and needs to be policed. But if moneys were paid into a trust and then it paid the provider directly you would save about 20% right off the top, the insurance industry minimum profit. That is why they hate the idea. The trust fund can determine its own rules for preexisting conditions and other terms, not just the max profit insurance model.You could allow small business, big business, and individuals to buy into the national health care trust fund to provide health benefits to their employee's at a more reasonable cost with more reasonable terms. I don't believe at this point you even need a mandate, because if they just set this up in competition with the insurance companies people would voluntarily flock to it. People are fed up with getting killed by health care costs for the last 25 years, everybody needs this we all get sick,we get old, they know it they raise rates, they make profits only the oil companies can rival and they still raise rates and cut services, year in year out. A voluntary national health care trust fund would work and it would be a hit. Then and only then will you get a free market solution, how do you get a market solution if nobody offers a better deal. The insurance companies would be forced to operate on a reasonable profit margin competitive with the fund are believe me they would be left in the dust because health care trust funds work.

Deomcrat, Republican, which team are you one.. pick a side... BAH, THATS SICK AND IGNORANT. Fact is, having insurance COMPANIES exist to MAKE money is what is wrong with the whole thing. They are looking to make a PROFIT off of insuring folks health. It should be a "break even" enterprise and even that would include high salaries for the ones heading the situation along with employeees all having jobs and EARNING an income. The way it is now lots of people "invest" and make a profit. Thing is you CANNOT MAKE A PROFIT. You TAKE a profit from people paying in more than they take out.. Its so criminal to profit on "isurance" where you bet against yourself and even if you win (meaning you NEED insurance like medical procedures so you are suffering yet "winning" the money game) as an overall whole we MUST LOSE for the "insurance" companies gambling MUST make money... ITS A RACKET. Garanteed profit gambling where anyone "investing" is betting on a sure thing run by people whos job it is to take in more than it gives out.. ITS A RACKET and its complete and total BULL!#%^T. The ones opperating care nothing about our health, yet everything about MAKING (taking) a buck. I understand money talks and in my mind no one is ENTITLED to healthcare they cannot afford. BUT... no one should profit from people trying to stay healthy or stay alive aside from those whose JOB it is to make them healthy and perform the WORK.

Occam,

That's very nice but it has nothing to do with cost who pays the bill is not remotely the same thing. Regardless of who writes the check the cost is the cost. If Personal choice reimburse the provider $100.00 for a service and medicaire reimburses $80.00 the cost of providing service is less for medicaire. This is the advantage of single payer the cost to the insurer is lower. When the cost is passed on by the consumer either privately or publically the cost is passed on to them marked up for overhead and for the private insurer profit. Medicaire buys the product for less and has no profit motive. The idea that privatizing insurance can be less expensive and better than a single payer system can be more effective economically is idiotic. There is no example of it working anywhere in the world at any time. Before for profit healthcare arrived in the late 70s and given favorable antitrust and tax status during the Reagan years the US had the best and one of the most affordable systems in the world and it was dominated by non profits such as Blue Cross.

jkh

One of the biggest cost savings, and thus a boost in profitability for the doctors themselves, that would come from a Single Payer System would be the fact that the doctors would no longer need a large, dedicated billing staff. That is actually one of the biggest costs that doctors face, along with the majorly overpriced insurance that they pay for malpractice. We NEED to go to a Single Payer System and, as a part of it, require doctors to be a part of a malpractice database. These are two things that would help address the actual costs for medical care. Another solution is needed for the suppliers of medical related equipment and supplies and the insurance that those companies pay to cover possible liabilities. The Insurance Corporations are reaping BILLIONS of dollars from all sides of the medical care system, from the patients, the doctors and the medical suppliers, and then doing their damnedest to prevent or limit payouts when required. Anti-trust legislation needs to be instituted on these insurance corporations and, yes, force them to return to a non-profit status whereby it becomes illegal for them to hand money over to their shareholders in the form of dividends since those shareholders are profiting yet have done absolutely NOTHING to help in medical care, they are just a drain of money from the system. I am not saying that companies that provide the needed insurance should not profit, but they should not profit extravagantly at the cost of people's lives.

By the way the real fraud is on the part of the providers over charging or scamming the system for services not provided. Very few people steal health care, it isn't like people just come in and get all the colonoscopies they can get because they are free.

Lanoki Ron, Lanoki Ron, we do have a plan. Its called medicare for all. That's the plan it always was the plan. You will never have to ask what the plan in now or in the future...........Medicare. Medicare for all. That should clear the matter up. Thanks.

Don't forget the lovely anti-trust exemption that health insurers have regarding competing across state lines and have individual payers!

What are you talking about? What anti-trust exemption? Many health insurers would love to operate across state lines. And, what about individual payers?

Grump: Except for Rand, there isn't one person you named who is a moderate. Snowe, Collins and Murkowski are all liberals. In fact, just 20 years ago they wouldn't even have been able to get elected on the democratic side as they are that liberal. Brown is from Mass. That says it all.

Of course, so far the only budgets voted on have been proposed by the repubs. Ryan's plan isn't perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. Why the dems want to see medicare go bankrupt is beyond me. Obamacare takes a half trillion out of it and speeds up it's bankruptcy. Obamacare will also put a lot of doctors and hospitals out of business. Everyone agrees that the only way it has to save money is to just reduce reimbursement rate. As it is now, doctors and hospitals are getting the reimbursements that are promised and they are already losing money on the reimbursements. Think the rich have it good now, they are going to be the only ones who will have medical under Obamacare. Why do you think the administration is granting all those waivers? So the dumb people who think Obamacare is great won't feel the full force and effect of it until after the 2012 election.

Ahh.... But the economy is booming along at full employment and low infaltion thanks to Obama, Pelosi and Reid!

Let's get the facts correct. I just pulled down the revenue and income for 6 of the insurance companies who are health care insurers. What I found is the average net income after taxes for these companies in total is 4.66% in 2010; 4.20% in 2009; 3.16% in 2008. The numbers are consistent with other industries. The caution is that if you want to regulate how much money these companies can make you are hurting yourself. Most major retirement systems have large holdings in these companies, therefore you decrease your earnings to support your retirement income.

We all want to get on the band wagon and slay the latest dragon invented by some person who lacks knowledge as to the true situation. Our congress and media is really good at leading us down these paths. I ask you to consider the following: pharmacuetical companies make the money they do because they fund their R&D that provides new drugs. The benefits of these new drugs is reductions in open surgeries you had 15 years ago. There exist a huge benefit to their research. We should outlaw their ability to provide back payments or beneficial treatment to physicians to write scripts for their drugs.

Once again, you are giving percentages of a business. The healthcare industry is everywhere but here...........a social service. So, let's forego the concept of for profit for the moment. Healthcare is a social service that, like many social services, is not structured to make profit. The military does not make profit for example. So, quoting the percentage high or low does not apply except here in the United States. It is a matter of philosopy. Medicare is not intented to make a profit. As far as doctors running away like their hair's on fire, where are they running? You can have private healthcare in the UK as well as the NHS for those that can't afford healthcare. Mute conversation.

Lanikai Ron, The not only don't have a plan but ObamaCare steals $500B from an already failed entitlement in order to give it to, you guessed it, ObamaCare. Talk about thowing grandma over the cliff.

Skip the Healthcare industry is a social service everywhere but here for a reason. We are a capitalist country, we let the free market decide our prices by supply and demand. That is what made us the country we are today, and what made EVERYWHERE else follow behind us. Why is it do you think that almost every foreign leader or foreign rich person comes here to have surgery. Why is it that we have the best technology in our hospitals, why do we have the best doctors, why do kids from all over the world come here to learn medicine? Why don't you research foreign healthcare industries and just see the problems that they are facing. You really think that those systems are perfect without flaws. Sure they may cover everyone, but how much of a drop in quality medicine are you willing to give up? When some says well that country does it, I stop and think well why is that country behind us when it comes to economy, technology, health

11. United States

The U.S. spends over 15% of its gross domestic product on health care--with little to show for it. In 2006, almost 16% of the population lacked health insurance. Still, of the 15 countries on the list the U.S came out on top when measuring infant mortality rate. The country also has the second-highest healthy life expectancy. What's more, air pollution is relatively low, and the U.S. boasts one of the world's lowest TB rates.

So for me lowest IDR, Highest healthy life expectancy, and yet we are able to pull this off despite this:

The Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1965 (the Hart-Cellar Act) removed quotas on large segments of the immigration flow and legal immigration to the U.S. surged. In 2006, the number of immigrants totaled record 37.5 million.^[81] After 2000, immigration to the United States numbered approximately 1,000,000 per year. Despite tougher border scrutiny after 9/11, nearly 8 million immigrants came to the United States from 2000 to 2005 – more than in any other five-year period in the nation's history.^[82] Almost half entered illegally.^[83] In 2006, 1.27 million immigrants were granted legal residence. Mexico has been the leading source of new U.S. residents for over two decades; and since 1998, China, India and the Philippines have been in the top four sending countries every year.^[84] The U.S. has often been called the "melting pot" (derived from Carl N. Degler, a historian, author of Out of Our Past), a name derived from United States' rich tradition of immigrants coming to the US looking for something better and having their cultures melded and incorporated into the fabric of the country.

Appointed by President Clinton, the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, led by Barbara Jordan, called for reducing legal immigration to about 550,000 a year.^[85] Since September 11, 2001, the politics of immigration has become an extremely hot issue. It was a central topic of the 2008 election cycle.^[86]

The number of foreign nationals who became legal permanent residents (LPRs) of the U.S. in 2009 as a result of family reunification (66 percent) outpaced those who became LPRs on the basis of employment skills (13 percent) and humanitarian reasons (17 percent).^[87] Since World War II, more refugees have found homes in the U.S. than any other nation and more than two million refugees have arrived in the U.S. since 1980. Of the top ten countries accepting resettled refugees in 2006, the United States accepted more than twice as much as the next nine countries combined.^[88]

I say some of you are so worried about the things that are wrong in this country and dont get me wrong there are things that are wrong and we can make better but at the same time there is a reason we have been on top for the past century or more. There is a reason people still flock here from all over the world. There is a reason for American Exceptionalism. We may have our problems but they are very fixable if we work together to get things do like we always have. We do have our faults but those are far less than any other country I can think of.

)

David, what made us great was to be the best one could be and have that opportunity to be such. Along with that responsibility was the need to also address that as a society, imperfect as it may be, was certain aspects to insure that we remained great. Individual freedoms are not universal otherwise we would have "survival of the fittest". This one issue, the issue of the health of the nation, very much like other services of this Great Country are not subject to profit/loss. If I worked hard all my life and was able to control all the water rights in the US, everyone would have to purchase water from me. Only those that could afford water at whatever price I commanded would benefit from my control of water. In pure capitalistic mode, this is how it would be. Unbridled capitalism benefits only some. It neglects those that somehow were not able (or yes willing) to meet individual needs. Government steps in when unbridled capitalism fails society at large. Same as when Democracy fails and government steps in i.e. Civil rights, women's right to vote, education on offer for all, equal rights for all. I lived in the United Kingdom for 25 years. The NHS was a wonder I had never known. I always had insurance in the US. Of course, because without it you were always going to find yourself on the short end. However, the idea that everyone had the right to see a doctor was hard fought for and has been a beacon of what healthcare stood for as a social service. I have never met a doctor in the UK who lived on the street. In the UK, I was a patient of my doctor. Here in the US, I am a customer of my doctor with little in the way of competition. What is the price of an MRI scan? Do you know? I don't. So, I recognize your position. I choose, though, to disagree with it.

My main point skip is the question of how do we offer Universal Healthcare to all when we dont even know or have on the books anywhere from 10-30 million people. Those are people who dont put into the system yet take out when they get hurt. In this country it is illegal for a hospital to turn you away even if you are from another country. And even if they know your illegal. From what I have read about Universal Healthcare in other places is that they will accept your insurance but if you dont have insurance and your a visitor or immigrant that they will turn you away at the door. Now if we adopted that policy in this country(which is absurd and I am not saying we should do it) people without insurance would be in danger for about 5-10 years maybe but after that I believe you would have serious reduction in not only service prices but then also insurance prices that would allow most to afford it. Just a thought.

@ David-2425738

An interesting factoid, the SCOTUS upheld Arizona's right to fine/jail employers that don't do their due dilligence to hire only legal residence eligible to work in the US.

I tend to think that once jobs dry up for most illegals, far fewer of them will be coming to the US and many here now will self-deport.

With fewer illegal residents, presumably there would be less of a strain on emergency care to provide services without any chance of reimbursement.

After a few years of enforcement, I'm curious to see the economic picture in AZ, both from a general employment standpoint to the changes in costs to their public services ranging from public school, emergency services, subsidized housing etc.

As for universal healthcare, it doesn't work, the price of the services are just too astronomically high. Places where universal healthcare are implemented show numerous problems, including waiting lists that take many orders of magnitude longer to receive care compared to hear in the US, ranging from cancer treatments to routine checkups. There's got to be a reason why much of the rest of the world travels to the US for medical services.

I think the road to reform and fixing our medical system is to remove various barriers to entry and massive monopolies and protectionist groups.

1. Lift the exemption that allows health insurers to not have to compete with each other across state lines
2. Allow for individual payer plans, require insurance companies to allow individuals to transfer their insurance policy when switching employers.
3. Consider removing the for-profit status for the health insurance industry. Profits should be directed into expanding coverage, lowering deductibles, or lowering prices; not in issuing dividends to shareholders, ever increasing advertising, lobbying and executive bonuses
4. Audit the AMA and university accreditation systems that make it extremely difficult for new medical universities to open in the US while protecting the ones that currently exist.
5. Pour additional funds into subsidized student loans for students seeking to become doctors. Be sure to provide the best loans for general practitioners, ENT, heart, brain, anesthesiology, radiology, and other areas of medicine lacking in qualified practitioners.
6. Revise medical malpractice law to increase the burden of proof on the plaintiff to show undue negligence

THere's more, but this could go one for a while ^_^

Wow, I really rushed out this upper post.

A few corrections

Residents...not residence

here...not hear

Good one!

FG: Perfecto!

I see your all still drinking the kool aid, but what the heck your not paying for it , you enjoy leaching true dems , lie cheat, and laugh about it, such a pity

hey KEv, hows YOUR kool-aid taste? Enjoy paying your insurance company and making more folks money for doing nothing but getting you to buy into a losing investment so they have a profiting investment. All dems do this or that? pretty strong drink you got... everyone who thinks this or that is on the OTHER team... must be potent kool-aid as well that youve got there. Right wingers dont lie, cheat and laugh about it... while belittling the stupid, "liberals" for doing the same thing... that doesnt happen. Actuallly, while thinking about it... you are the pity and I feel so sad for all the folks JUST LIKE YOU on the right and left. well more sad for the folks like me that there are folks like you out there.

Hey Kevin kido, leach my ass, cut me a check for the $205,000 I have paid in and I'll walk away, but not until, you want to end medicare for somebody that is 54 and paid all their life, cut me a check.

I paid in the FICA max for 45 years with employer matching before I retired and if they screw up my SS and Medicare at least my pension will carry me over long enough to hunt down the ones responsible. The irony is those same Republicans strongly protect my right to own the gun I may need to see that justice is served.

We could not have written a better script.

Our Nation has found it's balance and it's about Moderation. Surgical cuts can be made to the budget in a meaningful way. An real example would be defense. With the US spending 45% of the entire world's defense spending it's a f--king joke. We spend less than any other of the G7 countries on social programs and more than the other 6 combined on defense---find the balance. Ms Snowe--I applaud your sensibility.

When can we expect a Senate budget proposal from the Democrats as it has been 1 1/2 years since the last one. I am curious if that is your idea of responsible government

I assume most of you believe in santaclause and the tooth fairy.If not you better have a good retirement and medicial plan, because medicare,medicade and socila security will not be there.grandpa,grandma on the bus,but you are under the bus.

Instead of getting caught up in picking sides let's all work together to make real changes for the good of us all. Of course the career politicians want us all chosing teams and beating each other up. Let's make it one team, TEAM USA!

Be careful what you wish for, your welfare check may not come next month, because theres no one else to pay your way, Such a loser

I hope you weren't speaking to me Kevin - I have worked for everything I have all my life and I am sure I have more than you do. You lose your little job you may have now and please don't come running with your hand out. Save your pennies son you may need them.

What is really scary is that 40 Republicans voted for it in the Senate. Just think if they would have had the majority and this thing would have passed. I am an independent and used to be a Republican and this is the biggest reason why I will be voting democratic in 2012 because the Republican party is way to radical. They don't believe in any of the principles that even Reagan expounded anymore and are being led by extremists and corporations. When will the Republican party wise up and start doing what is best for their constituents and not for the far extremist in the party. And I urge any sensible Republican to please send a message to the party and vote against them next year and let them know that if they don't back to the center then they will be left out in the cold.

Song to Don Mcleans "American Pie"

I had a grandma who got very ill, and I asked the doctor for a medical pill, but he just smiled and turned away. I then went down to the Medicare store, where she paid her money years before, but the man there said that Medicare wouldn't pay.

And in the streets the children screamed, the families cried and the poets dreamed, but not a word was spoken, Medicare had been broken. And the three men I relied on most: the doctor, nurse and her Medicare, they caught the last train for the coast. The day that grandma died.

They were singing "Bye, bye Miss American Pie", drove my grandma to the levee but the levee was dry, the Grand Old Party was drinking whiskey and rye, saying "This will be the day the she dies, this will be the day she dies".

Kudos Dacabe- VERY creative :)

The only budget voted on was the Republican Ryan budget.

Budgets can only come from the House.

It is clear to see that some people do not anything about how our government works. But alas they still get a vote,that assuming the Repugs do not get their way and implement voter id requirements.

Anyone with any ideas?...

Yeah. It's called The People's Budget. Read it & weep...

( cpc.grijalva.house.gov ) - put that in your search engine - you'll find it.

Hey Jimmy - the Repubs forced the Dems to put 0bama's budget that he submitted in Feb on the floor. Do you read anything or just spit out lib talking points. It failed 97 - 0.

black, admit it. You just saw 0-97 and ran with it, correct? Now go find out why no one voted on it.

Because it's been superceded by....oh never mind. You still won't have a clue even if I take you there on the short bus.

What are you going to do when the debt ceiling is not raised , fire all the republicaian , because your not getting your welfare check. Why not quit taking money you didnt earn.

wow, you have no clue at all, do you?

kevin sure is familiar with welfare checks isn't he. Not surprising though.

Mary,

Great contribution............I don't think many people remember what a moderate Republican who thought about the citizens more than his contributors was really like.

Thank you

So then OXBRon - Why waste your pinkie skin typing that useless information? You already know Americans are not going to destroy these programs. Maybe clean them up a bit though?

Eishenhower would be roundly denounced as a RINO today--Good grief! A Republican who didn't think compromise was a dirty word! Imagine!

And that, Mary, was the beginning of the end. When my children grow up facing 80% tax rates and the ruins of our country, I'll reference that little bit of wisdom.

John, I'm confident that your children will be aware enough to realize it was unfunded wars, tax cuts for cronies, entitlements for Big Pharma and Big Insurance, NCLB, and Foreclosure Phil Gramm's mortgage crisis that created the debt. Hopefully, with more Dems and a few moderate Repubs voted into Congress in 2012, we might just get the tax cut repeals we need to start really shrinking the deficit.

John Galt...If you don't want your children to grow up with 80% tax rates, maybe you need to step up to the plate and demand the rich pay their fair share. They don't and I am not going into a debate about that. The GAO in 2005 reported that with Bush tax credit, 1% of the wealthiest Americans were 11% richer...okay...now they've demanded 2 more tax credits. Can we assume they are now 33% richer at that 11% rate or is math for the rich performed differently?

If you are children are taxed at 80%, it's because there isn't enough of that 1% with all the money paying their taxes. Taxes are not a new thing. When you want bridges and roads repaired, you pay for it. I guess the rich figure out that their private jets don't use the roads...But Corporate America's big semis do. And that doesn't even count the numerous other government services the rich use 500 times more than any Middle Class individual.

You can't bleed those earning 500 times less than the 1% who don't want to pay ANY taxes. Sorry....time for them to put back what they take from the system.

John cries for his children and expects everyone to "save his children" while he sits and whines and doesn't pony up a damn thing. John wants everyone else to take care of HIS responsibility. typical.

The Paul clan also voted against

ending taxpayer subsidies to oil

companies. What hypocrites.

Actually, that was more clever than I gave Paul credit for, I think. Probably the only way to be able to say he voted against it, with any hope of surviving the TeaBagger lynching party headed his way.

You had me till you mentioned Michael Moore..lol

And What have you done to earn any of it, , Class warfare is and excuse for losers,

No way! You quoted Michael Freakin' Moore?!? I hope you were going for sarcasm!

Kevin,

and what precisely have the majority of those 400 done to earn any of their money - the heirs of Sam Walton?? Just what did they do? and the same for most of the others.

trust Kevin, he's and expert in excuses for losers.

Wow, strawman much?

You can spew your vitrol for Michael Moore as much as you want, it doesn't change the fact that what he says is true.

Sorry, meant ad hominem much. Mixing up my logical fallacies, my apolgies. :)

Grassley and O. Hatch were on the record (TV clip) stating that the only way health care could work is for everyone to have coverage...it's the responsible thing to do. When Obama agreed & said, "What a good idea" the GOP said "What were we thinking". Anything Obama does they are against even if they had the idea. I too am a lifelong Republican and consider myself a fiscal conservative. The Bush tax cuts (once given hard to pull back as we are seeing), the unfunded Part D drugs, the war (kept off the books) all have undermined our economy. The way out is through better education, more teachers, many more days a year in class.

Let's not forget the Senate "pay-go bill", that had 7 Republican sponsors, until they found out that Obama was for it and then they immediately withdrew all support for the bill. Surely that can't be called bipartisanship, much less governing.

It certainly appears that way. as a matter of fact i don't think it matters what this president does as mcconnell said their goal is to make this president a one term president even if it means holding the country hostage. It appears to me that this is all about his color. God help us we are dividing this nation and if things continue as they are i have a strong feeling we are heading down the road to a civil war.

You do realize, Mary, that the liberals think THEY are smarter and have a higher earning capacity than all conservatives, right? That's the tone I repeatedly hear and see as liberals put down conservatives. That plainly puts the screws to what you just said. How can all the rich be conservative. You talk in circles and basically make no sense at all.

Hockey girl, it's not that liberals are smarter or that we have a higher earning capacity, we just use the God given sense God put in our heads and we DON'T vote against our own best interests!!

I am a liberal, and I do not think myself smarter than all conservatives. I do not have a higher earning capacity either. I am from a blue-collar working class family, born and raised in Ohio. I gotta tell you, hockey girl, you are talking nonsense when you say all liberals are elitists. It just isn't so any more. More and more middle-class and elderly are turning against the Repub party because of their plan to further plunderize the poor and disadvantaged in our society by ruining Medicare and SS. Younger folks are angry at our continued rape of the environment, decreases in educational funding and opportunities, and are energized by the recent demise of OBL at the order of President Obama, and are trending liberal. Everywhere I go in my little town, people are talking against the Ryan budget plan. We will be out in numbers for each and every election for years to come, and we will indeed take back our country, from the true "elite" - the rich and corporations who are bloating up like ticks with all the money, while the rest of us get sucked dry. People are finally realizing they need to vote these right wing nuts out of office so we can finally tilt the pendulum back the other way. Only then will all of us have the chance to better the lives of our families and friends.

Let me clue you Billionaires don't pay squat on income tax. They do not receive paychecks. Giving them a break on income tax is a moot point. If you want to raise revenue you raise the Capital Gains Tax. If you do that you won't see Buffet, Gates and Zuckerberg telling the press go ahead I don't mind if you raise taxes.

Study finds left-wing brain, right-wing brain

Excerpts:

Even in humdrum nonpolitical decisions, liberals and conservatives literally think differently, researchers show.

Exploring the neurobiology of politics, scientists have found that liberals tolerate ambiguity and conflict better than conservatives because of how their brains work.

In a simple experiment reported today in the journal Nature Neuroscience, scientists at New York University and UCLA show that political orientation is related to differences in how the brain processes information.

Previous psychological studies have found that conservatives tend to be more structured and persistent in their judgments whereas liberals are more open to new experiences. The latest study found those traits are not confined to political situations but also influence everyday decisions.

Liberals had more brain activity and made fewer mistakes than conservatives when they saw a W, researchers said. Liberals and conservatives were equally accurate in recognizing M.

Researchers got the same results when they repeated the experiment in reverse, asking another set of participants to tap when a W appeared.

Frank J. Sulloway, a researcher at UC Berkeley's Institute of Personality and Social Research who was not connected to the study, said the results "provided an elegant demonstration that individual differences on a conservative-liberal dimension are strongly related to brain activity."

Analyzing the data, Sulloway said liberals were 4.9 times as likely as conservatives to show activity in the brain circuits that deal with conflicts, and 2.2 times as likely to score in the top half of the distribution for accuracy.

Based on the results, he said, liberals could be expected to more readily accept new social, scientific or religious ideas.

"There is ample data from the history of science showing that social and political liberals indeed do tend to support major revolutions in science," said Sulloway, who has written about the history of science and has studied behavioral differences between conservatives and liberals.

www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,2687256.story

No, They will hire the undocumented workers since american citizens want way too much money for their services

good research

Like Feisty, I used to vote for Republicans--I voted for Reagan (his second term) the first time I could vote in a presidential election. I voted for Bush 41--twice. The turnaround came for me in the 2000 presidential election. Not just because I felt that Bush 43 didn't hold a candle to his father (he doesn't), but also because I felt that Al Gore supported some of the causes that I realized were very important to me, especially protecting the environment.

When your president goes on national television and admits that he likes to keep expectations low, it's very disappointing. Bush said this in 2006. He certainly lived up to the low bar he set for himself. I'm not talking about silly gaffes or mispronunciations--everyone does that (look at Obama's "2008" signing yesterday)--this comment shows a real lack of character. I know, I know. He's not our President anymore--thank goodness.

Obama has disappointed me some, too; I thought he should have closed Gitmo by now, and I wished he had stood up more against the lies and negative rhetoric about he health care bill. I hope that he can somehow get these congressmen and women to work together to hammer out a budget that will get us back on the right road. And he needs to get us out of those wars! That would be a huge help for our budget.

huh??? another right winger rewriting history.

Don, re-read. That's hardly right wing...

Such an intelligent post! I'm overwhelmed with your vocabulary.

I guess we all laughed a little at that comment that "Reagan said that deficits do matter" which we all know is completely backwards.

If you don't understand a joke, just move along.

The Republicans filibustered the Democratic Budget. Next question.

John, you can't argue with stuck on stupid. If any of these so-called social, compassionate republicans would do some research they would see exactly what President Obama and his administration has accomplished in under 2 1/2 years into his presidency.

But if I got all my talking points from Faux News and Mr. Bouncy, Bounce, I too would be totally uninformed.

It would actually mean something if the senate or house democrats would have proposed and passed a budget over the last 2 to 3 years

How pathetic is it that the legislature and this president have not formulated and passed a budget. I am sick and tired of hearing how effin great Obama is when this bozo can't lead this country on such a basic item as our darned budget.

Hey Kyot

You are aware the budget, by design - begins in the House of Representatives - not with the President or the Senate?

Hey lefty genuises, can you say "continuing resolution". That's the Dem synonym for "budget". BTW, The repubs were nowhere to be found in '09 & '10. Now, they control only the House. The dems have spent like there's no tomorrow, without a budget they certainly could have passed. Yea. I know, "Bush sucks!", but what the excuse now?

I resent you taking the term Bozo away from President Bush, and giving it to President Obama. Nobody could have carried that title as well as Bush!

That's a lie.. they did not Filibuster the budget... that's absurd. There was never a filibuster by the way. The congress was gridlocked by the THREAT of one?

Oh yes I know how it works I am "aware" are you aware of what the word "legislature" means? Apparently you're not "aware" it means Congress. But the President is well within his power to come up with a budget and presidents have done so in the past. You wingnuts can play these left wing loser games all day long... in the end the country will go down the toilet and I guess you'll be happy then... for about 2 days when you realize no checks are coming from Obama!

I'm not a republican so you can't be talking to me... I'm not "stuck" on any ideology... and is "stupid" code or synonym for democrat? What has Obama accomplished in 3 years anyway? If spending 2.6 trillion dollars on entitlements of more welfare, medicaide, foodstamps, subsidizing unemployment so that it went from 8 % to 10% ... you call that accomplishments? I call that a dismal failure.

Been trying to tell people that the "new world order" the neocons are always talking about isn't a liberal idea, we aren't that organized. The neocons have a plan and they dont care how many die during it's implementation. I learned about the "Project for a New American Century" when I worked for the Sane/Freeze in 1991, the more I looked into just what it is that they and other wingnut "think tanks" wanted for the future of this country the more frightened I became especially since passages like "Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses" are all to common in their writings. They are cold and callas, they have no morals, no ethics and the only human life they value is that of an unborn child, they rest of us are cannon fodder or future slave for the "chosen" (wealthy). They are insane and they must be stopped.

Oh, so the do nothing dem senators, who have produced no budget ideas this year and passed no budget whatsoever last year, are able to put the other side "on the spot" for actually doing something?

Gee, that is just friggin great! I'll tell you why the dem senators don't put out any ideas - because any they have include tax increases so noxious that they know they would be run out of town on a rail. I guess if we had a functioning media they'd be "put on the spot" for not doing anything but that isn't going to happen with anybody working for a crony capitalist non-tax paying corp like GE.

Damn rick h, you are just a walkin' talking point arent you? oh you missed a couple, George Soros and Bill Ayers, oh yeah throw in "socialist agenda" and you too could work as a GOP troll!!!

Ryan's re-spin on medicare is pure fantasy, what Im sure of no republican can tell the truth.

You whacknuts are worried about the new world order? Please get a effen grip! This country is getting sold out by your local congressman and mine... NOT some puppet-masters or the Rothchildes or rockefeelers... you're nutso.