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Subscribe to RSSRep. Paul Ryan acknowledged this morning on MSNBC’s Morning Joe that Medicare played a role in the Republicans’ loss in NY-26.
“The president and his party have decided to demagogue” the issue, the Wisconsin Republican said, calling the campaign against his budget plan “Mediscare.”
When asked to clarify if he believed the “demagoguing” of Medicare played a role, Ryan said, “That’s a big part of it.” He added, that Democrats are “scaring seniors that their current benefits are going to be affected.”
He also acknowledged on Morning Joe, “People in the Republican Party are nervous because of these kinds of ads,” referring to a Web video depicting him throwing an elderly woman in a wheelchair off a cliff. “You should have seen how many takes it took to make that work,” he joked. He argued, as President Obama did during the health-care debate, that the biggest hurdle is that this is a complicated issue that is difficult to explain. “Once people learn the facts, we are fine,” he claimed.
So what are the facts?
1. Would Medicare continue to exist?
It’s true that anyone 55 and older would not be affected under Ryan’s plan, so a video depicting someone currently older than 55 being thrown off a cliff is misleading.
But Ryan claimed that Medicare would continue to exist. The more important question, however, is in what form?
When asked by one of the Morning Joe panelists, “For people who are 54 years of age or younger, when they're 70 years of age, are they dealing and negotiating with an insurance company?”
“No,” Ryan responded.
“Or are they dealing with Medicare?”
“It's Medicare.”
But as the Congressional Budget Office wrote in its analysis of Ryan’s plan:
“People who turn 65 in 2022 or later years and Disability Insurance beneficiaries who become eligible for Medicare in 2022 or later would not enroll in the current Medicare program but instead would be entitled to a premium support payment to help them purchase private health insurance.”
In other words, traditional Medicare would, in fact, be phased out for those 54 and younger. They would be significantly impacted. Lost in the back and forth of the exchange with Ryan was that in the same answer, he went on to outline just how much Medicare would change – albeit not explicitly.
“You select the plan that you want,” he said. “You can't be denied. And then Medicare subsidizes your plan. That's how it works for a lot of insurance arrangements. For federal workers, Medicare Advantage and plenty of others work like this. Medicare subsidizes a plan you choose.”
Those who are 65 by 2022, would select private insurance from an exchange system – something similar to that of the health-care overhaul passed last year. Then, the CBO writes: “The premium support payments would go directly from the government to the plans that people selected.”
This would significantly impact those 54 and younger. CBO:
“Under the proposal, the gradually increasing number of Medicare beneficiaries participating in the new premium support program would bear a much larger share of their health care costs than they would under the traditional program. … That greater burden would require them to reduce their use of health care services, spend less on other goods and services, or save more in advance of retirement than they would under current law.”
In short, in 10 years, people would pay more for health care when they’re seniors under the Ryan plan than they would under traditional Medicare.
And because participation in Medicare would be voluntary, CBO says the number of uninsured seniors would increase:
“[C]osts to individuals (beyond those covered by the premium support payment) would be higher under the proposal than under traditional Medicare, and some individuals would therefore choose not to purchase insurance … the number of older Americans without health insurance would be higher.”
2. Did the idea for “premium support” come from a Bill Clinton commission?
Ryan also claimed on Morning Joe that the idea for “premium support” “came from Bill Clinton's bipartisan commission to save Medicare.” He added that the “Brookings Institution first coined the phrase ‘premium support.’”
While it is true that Alice Rivlin, a senior fellow at Brookings and Clinton’s former Office of Management and Budget director, worked with Ryan on coming up with the idea of “premium support,” there are two key differences. She told Ryan she could not support his plan, according to comments she made to Politico last month, because:
1) Seniors do not have a choice between staying with traditional Medicare or not
2) The increases in the amount of subsidies are too small
“She said seniors would have the choice between keeping their current form of Medicare or choosing to enter the pool,” Politico wrote. “In Ryan’s version, he did not keep the beneficiaries with the choice to keep what Rivlin called the ‘default option.’”
And: “The other main difference is in the rate of growth in subsidies for beneficiaries entering the new exchange system. ‘In the Ryan version, he has lowered the rate of growth and I don’t think that’s defensible,’ Rivlin said. ‘It pushed too much of the cost onto the beneficiaries.’”
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they say 55 today and next year they say everyone---give the republicans control and kiss medicare by by. if the voucher system is the same as medicare then why do anything- YOU ARE A LIAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lyin Ryan,
That's what we call him in his district in Wisconsin now. May he go down in history as the dishonest dope that ruined the GOP forever...
For years Progressive Power has known about the continued lies of "Richie Rich Ryan." The economic supporters for little "Richie Rich Ryan" are big energy corporations, big insurance companies, and the large Wall Street Banks. He is politically good friends with the Koch Brothers, and many large big oil CEO's. "Richie Rich Ryan" is a poltical manure sales man, and his voucher system is a scam. This is fact!
The First Read Fact Check is correct, and Progressive Power facts checks have come up with the same information about "Richie Rich Ryan." His "Economics Of Evil" goes way beyond the killing of Medicare. He wants to kill Social Security, and he is for the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts of 2000. "Richie Rich Ryan" is for no tax cuts for the Middle Class or the working poor. Large Tax Cuts for the very rich, big oil, large corporations, and large insurance companies are the goal for "Richie Rich Ryan." He is not for economic safety nets for the disabled and the elderly. His past poltical and economic record is not a secret. It's clearly stated on the record. The "Hoodlum's On The Hill" already voted to kill Medicare, and in the eyes of the GOP/RNC. Medicare is already a dead program. "Richie Rich Ryan" economically wants a voucher system that will make his Large Insurance CEO donators even richer. That is fact!
If we really want to save Medicare/Medicaid why not try increasing payroll taxes a bit. I'm sure people would prefer paying a little more into it now to ensure having it when they are in their golden years. Premium Support will be a disaster, after a while you will have millions of seniors with no insurance and we will be back to where we were before Medicare.
MSNBC 'fact check' plays to the leftwing zealots like Feisty (why does she get the first comment on every thread?)
MSNBC 'fact check' in action:
".....so a video depicting someone currently older than 55 being thrown off a cliff is misleading."
The official Obama 'fact check' network, MSNBC, thereby encourages videos showing Republicans throwing 54 year olds off a cliff...
MSNBC has fact checked the Democratic plan to prevent entitlement bankruptcy and found no misleading claims...since it DOESNT EXIST.
Misrepresenting his OWN PLAN! Unbelievable.
It's amazing how badly the republicans have screwed up on every level of government in only 6 months. They mistook voter anger about the economy to be some vast "okay" to their right-wing social engineering agenda (thanks Newt). Think of what would happen if the elections were again today.
Can't that man simply answer a question?! What is with the GOP? If they believe in something they should stand up for it each and every time they are questioned about it. I'm so sick of the double talk.
I like the fact check that seniors turning 65 in 2022 would not be in the Medicare system that we now have, but would be in an altered system. What I don't understand is that there are so many attacks on the Ryan plan. If we maintain the Medicare system we currently have, then won't seniors turning 65 in 2018 (and all that are on the medicare system by then) be on no system at all. Wasn't there just a Trustee Report noting that it will go bankrupt by then?
We really need to be talking about solutions. If you have to bag on the one plan out there, please put in your two cents as to how to fix it.
LOL if dems even did half of the demagoguery on Angel Eye's plan that repubs did to Obama's health care plan...
If you are going to grab the ball and get in the Demagoguery Game then stfu when the opposing team uses some of your own moves on you because it is just silly when you did the same thing 10x harder on them before.
He should sit back and watch some of those repub's speeches and the commercials the PACs & Rove spent $$$$$$ on, it was all about 'obamacare', 'death panels' and scaring grandma.
-Glass houses, stones. Pots, kettles. You know the routine.
If this plan is so wonderful I think that Ryan and anyone who voted for it should adopt that plan for themselves. Now. Give up their own coverage and buy insurance in the free market. Better hope they don't have any health issues that will affect their coverage. And their parents or spouses should do the same. Hey if it's good enough for all of the american people it should be good enough for their families as well. Give it real life test drive. And then if they all still support it, they can come out and tell us all why. And maybe how this plan actually saves money.
I thought that was exactly what the plan was all about. It gives the same plan to all Americans that Congressmen get.
yeah, right.....
Give Ryan enough rope and enough time and he will hang himself. A person can't talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time without spilling forth some untruths. He is changing his spiel so quickly that he is starting to sound like a carnival barker. Not that I have anything against carnival barkers. Where does the Republicans come up with these clowns?
Let's give control of senior healthcare to the insurance companies. That's a heck of a plan Ryan. Oh, forgot, the Republicans answer to their corporate pimps, not the American middle class. Government by the rich, for the rich and to hell with everyone else. The Koch Brothers laugh all the way to the bank and the Tea Party morons do the dirty work. Keep talking right wingnuts, the more you say, the more your true colors are exposed.
I thought I heard as such on this morning when he spoke on Morning Joe, but wanted to make sure I heard what I thougtht I heard, but could someone please provide the source that supports the numbers Ryan just casually through out saying that Medicare was '30 Trillion dollars in the hole'!?!?!?!
What in the hell does that mean...how exactly does the Ryan approach make up 30 Trillion dollars and his plan doesn't even kick in for another 10 years?!?!
He bust out with stuff like that and calls others 'shameless'!?!?!
Has anyone actually seen a model of what Ryan's plan will look like in 2022. My questions are, what will insurance equivalent to the coverage of medicare of today cost in 2022, how much will the voucher payments be (how much out of pocket will seniors have to pay) and since all of us have been paying into Medicare all our working adult life how does the math work out (what we've paid in versus how much the vouchers will cost over the life of my retirement). I'm thinking if the Medicare Taxes and Social Security taxes were put is a conservative mutual fund and let grow for 40+ years that I might be better off.
Definition of DEMAGOGUE
1
: a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
If I recall this right, wasn't it the repubs that demagogued this administrations health care plan so horrid. And now that they are having to get a taste of their own medicine, only shows what type of folks we're really dealing with. Sure when they did it and the Scott Brown senate election was decided the saying went that the American people have spoken. Yet now after all of these town-hall gone south meetings and this NY26 election results. The repubs true colors are starting to show. What a bunch of hypocrites. But whats even worse then these fake-out artists in congress, are that they have people out there that keep putting them back in office. So why should they change or do anything different, knowing that they will get another chance. "WAKE-UP"
I wonder what all you jerks will say when medicare is broken beyond repair and the morons in Washington can't fix it...
I'm not a big fan of the Ryan plan because I think it can be done better, but I do give him credit for starting the conversation. Obama raped medicare of 500 billion so he has no idea of what to do and I'm not sure he cares what happens to seniors either. So when are we as a country going to have an adult conversation about the huge budget problem?? When it's too late or it makes good politics... My guess is the latter...
pathetic truly pathetic
MAXX Good post,this isn't strictly a right or left thing. I've brought this point up before when I do I get accused of being not a Dem, being a racist( though I'm not white I usually don't bring it up because color is not the isssue), rarely will you see an adult conversation here. It's strictly name calling,placing you in a specific category, rarely do you see a solution. It's usually you must vote dem only or repub only.
Pathetic is a proper discription
Please,
time 4truth
Wayne I'am black but color isn't the issue for me.
#6.8 - Thu May 26, 2011 8:16 AM EDT
( though I'm not white I usually don't bring it up because color is not the isssue),
#43.1 - Thu May 26, 2011 8:26 AM EDT......
You should bring it up sometime.
Nothing will change for those 55 or older, But those 54 and younger will be screwed royally
Bo What's the answer then? I don't agree with Ryan's plan but I don't agree with Obama care they both run Medicare into the ground. We need reform but who has the answer?
I do not foresee any future in which, regardless of whose plan or what approach we adopt, most people are not spending substantially more for health care than they presently do. It's ultimately very, very simple: either health care is going to cost less, or we're going to buy less of it, or we're going to spend more money on it.
Unfortunately, Americans as a people and America as a culture cannot conceive of the idea of of health care as a societal, rather than a personal, effort. Paying a higher premium so that someone else has care who could not otherwise afford it, and so that the payor has access to care at some future date, is just beyond the boundaries of what Americans, as a people and as a culture, can think about.
So long as that is true, we will try to deal with health care costs on a personal basis, and that means each of us will have to pay a lot more at precisely the point where we can least afford it. Health-care related bankruptcies will continue to increase. The number of people who just plain don't get the care they need will increase. All of the evils of the present system will continue, buried under whatever window dressing someone comes up with.
We have a choice: accept that future, or figure out a way to start thinking in a radically different way, a way that admits that we, as a society, face this issue together, or fail to face it at all.
The choice is ours.