Good Morning Navy I see you survived the rapture.

Ohio's workers. According to the organizers of that petition drive, they are now 93 percent of the way to achieving this goal after just one month of signature gathering"

It looks like ole Mitch is between Ba-rack and a hard place. LOL 80% of the people is good. Mitch's karma is bad. He is getting exactly what he deserves. Finally, Mitch is going to find out the true meaning of the word "NO" .
I've never liked John Kasich. I hope Ohio gets 200% of signatures

Beverly in Chicago,

Why are republicans pulling out against running with Obama? Darn, now all we have left are Carnival Barkers (my new word - thanks Frank Luntz)...all they need is now throwing in the likes of Palin and Bachmann and you havea real circus.

LOL... at the rapture comment... that guy was definitely nuts... and you would think what would make someone follow a person like that.... it has been said in the bible passage after passage that there are false prophets... and that no one knows...

As a Christian, if one really follows what the Bible says, you'd clearly see that it says worship no man - and the truth is within each and everyone of us. And that salvation is attainable through only one way - believing, and trying to be like him. As a scientist, I sometimes have doubt, but what's there to lose right? That's how not to follow nut job, egomaniacs like David Korresh, Ted Haggard, or this wacko.... same applies to Islamic terrorist.

In any event, I digress...

Even if the Democrat in the NY 26 race loses a close race, the very fact that a democrat has a chance to win speaks volumes about just how badly the GOPTP misread the 2010 elections.

Several weeks ago, Senator Scott Brown said he would vote for the Ryan Budget--that was before the Town Hall meetings which clearly show the people do not support killing medicare and more tax cuts for the rich.

Right on Bev.

You know those Repugs who voted for the House Bill, but are now up for re-election ,will flip flop and vote NO in the Senate. How easly these "Chicken Little's" can be terrified by the Tea Party. No backbone and these are our Senators. Thank God their not mine. Discussting.

Great post USN, and well said Jody. So far there hasn't been a lot in terms of real "bellweather" elections, but with a number of strongly Republican areas suddenly very competitive for Democrats it's very encouraging.

OoOOOOOO I can feel the luv! Just make sure you clean up the mess!

Progressive Friends, Great start to the week. However, I hope we all keep the people affected by the massive tornado, in our thoughts and prayers.

5 months after his inauguration, latest polls show only 3 in 10 Mainers support our TeaPublican governor.

Under a Republican majority legislature and governor, there have been attempts to roll back environmental regulations that were passed with bipartisan support in previous years. Attempts to repeal the ban on billboards along our highways, lower the minimum wage to $5.25 for those under 20, reducing teacher's benefits while giving the wealthiest Mainers a $2,700.00 tax cut. Naturally, they are spending hours debating the legality of abortion.

Not to mention the three LePage appointees who have had to step down for 1) insulting remarks at a Chamber of Commerce dinner 2) conflict of interest 3) facing 5 personal bankruptcies while promoting the governor's "get tough on poor people" agenda.

The bottom line is, the Republican Party has one idea, and one idea only: corprations should call the shots in our country.

Collapsed by the Tea Party Conservatives.

Heathens, Daniels, Huntsman and Bachman:

I guess I'm a heathen because I was left behind. All my friends, family and acquaintances must also be heathens because they too were left behind. All my friends and foes on First Read are still here, so they were not ruptured up. I expected politicians to be left behind. The point is that there really are some real crazies among the fundamental Christians, and they are tolerated. Perhaps reasonable people should show tolerance to the Muslim people as well. It's who we are as Americans: tolerating people with different beliefs.

Damn, it's hard to not to say "I told you so". I was reasonably certain Daniels would not run and expressed my doubts on FR many times. Mitch may give "family reasons" for not running, but it is more than that. There are a lot of skeletons in the Mitch Daniels' closet and being "thin skinned" he did not want to defend past actions. Mitch is a numbers guy and not a people person. He does not like shaking hands, smiling, asking for your vote, he would rather be in an office pouring over numbers and charts. Additionally, Daniels liked the attention he received, but does not have that fire-in-the-belly to go out and campaign for the next 18 months.

Huntsman is beginning to fall in the flip-flopper trap as he is changing his position on the individual mandate provision in the Affordable Healthcare Act. He once was for it, now against it. In terms of crediting our President as an outstanding leader, he now wants to marginalize the compliment as a social courtesy. He has been waffling on environmental issues and it may be a matter of time before he opposes civil unions and giving undocumented workers a path to citizenship. But what Huntsman does not realize is that the Tea Party keeps score and has long memories. I contend that Jon Huntsman is in this election to develop a network. He will have his chance in 2016.

While Daniels does not have the desire to campaign, Michele Bachmann will be running. She is now queen of the Tea Party and Democrats couldn't be happier. There will be a lot to write about in the months to come.

I see the collapse police got Feisty already.

BTW, all you regular readers, say a prayer for No Jo, No Bo, NJ... according to an earlier post daughter is in the hospital and its pretty severe.

While I hope we have a Democratic win in NY-26, some are much too sanguine. A loss would still be a loss. In 2010 many of the races were close losses. The warning that Democrats should see in NY-26 is not that the GOP and affiliated groups will come to the defense on individucal seats, but that the GOP and groups have the resources to do so. The GOP is outspending I think at least 4 to 1 in the district. The Dems would be naive not to realize that the GOP can do that in every swing district and then some in 2012, and are more than willing to do so. Campaign money goes a long way to fix policy gaffes or at least muddle things. The Dems are content to win policy debates. We need to win elections.

Jiminy, the collapse cowards strike again. Well, when the right wing gets hammered with facts and exposes, it just dumps the subject. Fristy, you got us start well, once again. Here's a repost of the piece I added to the #1 thread:

Great stuff to start the week with, Navy, Feisty, Bev, Ron, Anna Molly.

As the field of GOP presidential candidates continues to sport "carnival barkers," the pressure on rigid ideologues from the Tea Party and Libertarian wing of the GOP mounts. It is showing in the reckless stand they have taken on the debt ceiling vote.

The so-called deficit and debt "crisis" is a LIE manufactured by ultra-right-wing propagandists to justify pursuit of their anti-government ideology. The kinds of cuts and revenue increases necessary to address the issues belong in budget debates, NOT the matter of raising the debt ceiling.

This entire debacle is being orchestrated by conservatives such as Grover Norquist, and is all of a piece with Tea Party platforms at both the national and state levels. It was baldly admitted in the inaugural speech of Texas' Lieutenant Governor, David Dewhurts: "We pronounce the word C R I S I S as 'opportunity'." (P. 18, The Nation, May 30, 2011)

Most especially now that the Tea Party's destructive policy agenda has outraged former supporters and independents, as well as most moderate Republicans, the push to cram their extrmist agenda down the nation's throat has gained greater urgency. The rigid ideologues know that their opportunity is fading fast, and after the 2012 elections is more than likely to vanish.

Thus the manufactured "crisis" in Washington. Even at the price of reversing the nation's economic recovery, destroying hundreds of thousands of jobs, and fundamentally altering the national social compact, the ideologues stamp their feet and hold the entire world hostage as the true "crisis" looms - U.S. debt default.

It is indisputable that the cost of two wars, the burden placed on the country from the Bush Recession, and the huge deficits and debt accumulated during eight years under G.W. Bush (on top of record deficits accumulated during the prior Reagan-Bush Administrations) pose a challenge that must be answered.

Many of the proposed solutions, however, especially the Ryan budget proposal, or the Bowles-Simpson plan, are economic wrecking balls.

For example see what a Nobel winning economist says about the Bowles-Simpson budget plan. Not only will it "wreck the economy," says Joseph Stiglitz, but it harms the nation's development and future. "We need to think about what kind of economy, and what kind of society, we want to create; and how tax and expenditure programs can help achieve those goals," he said.

He bluntly stated the Bowles-Simpson proposal is a "suicide pact."

The Ryan budget proposal is even more draconian.

There is a counter-proposal in the House Congressional Progressive Caucus budget. Unlike the Ryan plan, which is not serious about debt or deficit, as it adds trillions more to the defecits in coming years and takes 60 years to finally reach "balance," this plan combines revenue increases with spending cuts and still maintains appropriate government functions and services. And it reduces deficitis, addresses debt, all with a responsible and sane approach.

Anti-government zealots in the Tea Party and Libertarian wing of the GOP have already worked havoc in states around the nation. If the states are supposed to be the "laboratories" of government, then it's evident that the same agenda now being hawked in Washington should be junked and no further serious talk about it allowed to affect the vote in raising the debt ceiling.

6+ years into Gov. Daniels 8 years as Governor......first thing he's ever done that I agree with him.

dirp101

BTW, all you regular readers, say a prayer for No Jo, No Bo, NJ... according to an earlier post daughter is in the hospital and its pretty severe.

Consider it done, hope everything turns out okay.

So sad and pathetic that Feisty Readhead had to insult No Jo on the very first comment.

How shameful of her. Personal, and unrelated insults do absolutely nothing to further the discourse. How unfortunate that Feisty Readhead also seems to not be able to recognize how spiteful and petty her comments make her look.

I should know better to respond to a Feisty (Feisty?) post... they always get collapsed for being irrelevant, mean spirited, or off point... but here I go again:

Pawlenty good political news today! Another candidate brave enough to remind the country that Obama has not been telling the truth for over 2.5 years.... and I don't think he's too worried the libbies will use their best weapon, the 'race card', in their soon to come attacks on him.

I believe we will see the dirtiest campaign ever from an incumbent President in 2012! I also believe Feisty (Feisty?) and Bev the Chitown organizer will love to participate in such a dirty campaign, they know no other way...and it's easier than speaking the truth.

God bless the folks in Missouri! Our thoughts and prayers go out to them from Nevada!

Dirp 101 - BTW, all you regular readers, say a prayer for No Jo, No Bo, NJ... according to an earlier post daughter is in the hospital and its pretty severe.

Here is to keeping No Jo and her family up in prayers.

-just sayin'-

Americans do not elect people that look odd. Mitch looks like an alien.

Kinda makes one wonder just how bad her "other" hubby looked or smelled since she went back to him... alien head and all.

All of the Conservatives who like to claim our President has no standing in the world need to see what's happening in the streets of Dublin right now. Untold thousands filling the streets well beyond the ability to actually see the American president with roots in their great nation. An enthusiastic, excited, supportive crowd of spectators cheering the leader of the free world. It's an inspiring sight.

Thanks to the Irish people, btw, for their scattered boos directed at the Birthers when President Obama made an offhand reference to people questioning one's heritage.

Amen Yellowdog and Dirp!

Can we put aside our differences for a moment to keep NJ in our prayers?

Feisty? Bev?

John A.-400474
Jiminy, the collapse cowards strike again. Well, when the right wing gets hammered with facts and exposes, it just dumps the subject. Fristy, you got us start well, once again. Here's a repost of the piece I added to the #1 thread:

Great stuff to start the week with, Navy, Feisty, Bev, Ron, Anna Molly.

As the field of GOP presidential candidates continues to sport "carnival barkers," the pressure on rigid ideologues from the Tea Party and Libertarian wing of the GOP mounts. It is showing in the reckless stand they have taken on the debt ceiling vote.

The so-called deficit and debt "crisis" is a LIE manufactured by ultra-right-wing propagandists to justify pursuit of their anti-government ideology. The kinds of cuts and revenue increases necessary to address the issues belong in budget debates, NOT the matter of raising the debt ceiling.

This entire debacle is being orchestrated by conservatives such as Grover Norquist, and is all of a piece with Tea Party platforms at both the national and state levels.

/p>

The manufactured "crisis" in Washington. Even at the price of reversing the nation's economic recovery, destroying hundreds of thousands of jobs, and fundamentally altering the national social compact, the ideologues stamp their feet and hold the entire world hostage as the true "crisis" looms - U.S. debt default.

John that is so true I' ve been saying it over.

I call it the Master Plan. Like I said before on Wall street we are the "stock exchanged"

As Heraclitus said: How can we know anything in a world that never is, but instead is always becoming something else?

NoJo

Please accept my heartfelt wishes for your daughter's recovery.

skip

I see that TAGD is still upset that he wasn't "raptured" over the weekend and I can assure you I feel your pain TAGD.

We were all hoping you would be raptured on Saturday.

You think it could have something to do with the un-Christian tone of your posts?

Give it a little thought, huh? Better luck next Rapture.

What are you talking about TAGD? My tone showed sympathy, empathy and my comment was made in a spirit of real concern for you and your immoral...uh sorry, immortal soul.

Look to the inner man TAGD and..like I said, better luck next Rapture.

Some of you posting in this thread wouldn't know a fact if it jumped in front of your car, splatted against your windshield and, in its dying breath whispered "A half truth is a whole lie."

Yes, I'm a paragon of virtue and brilliance. A bright shining star in the gloom of a Tea Party night. But I try not to let it go to my head.

Better luck next rapture.

...and I don't need to look up the word "vacuous" I know it's a picture of a Hoover.

My sincere thoughts and prayers go out No Jo and her daughter. I hope her daughters recovery is soon and successful.

Luckily, for Obama, the media was so wrapped up in his "historic run" that they pretty much gave him a pass. No such luck for the GOP...........Just because they didn't find anything doesn't mean they didn't search. You just can't get over the fact that there was nothing else to find.

So sad JUST and pathetic that Feisty Readhead had to insult No Jo on the very first comment. BECAUSE SHE SAID THIS..........I'm certain one particular poster in NJ, is sobbing in her Cheerio's this morning, now that Mitch 'The Last Great White Hope' Daniels has wimped out on challenging President Obama ...................................................................................................................I I should know better to respond to a Feisty (Feisty?) post... they always get collapsed for being irrelevant, mean spirited, or off point... or by mean and vindictive people who cant handle the truth.

dontgivemethepenguin

fiesty, POTUS off to discover his roots? Does he know where, what his roots are from? How many roots does he have? When can we see him go to Africa? What country will he discover his roots are spread from next? Maybe he is going to Ireland to develop jobs for us, lmao, wtf? ...............I suppose since you have no roots you show your ignorance by criticizing.

It seems like everyone need to show just how insulting they can be by pointing crooked fingers at others.

That's a great approach, USN. It makes great sense to play these sort of "what if" games in order to put things into proper perspective. It's clear whether you're looking forward or applying the Republican model to the recent past that this draconian attack on the middle class is a disaster, a dramatic restructuring of America.

It will be a disaster for Ryan`s Bill to even get close, we need a landslide decision against it. These idiots playing God with everyone's lives need to be kicked out on their butts. And the bast$%^s pulling their strings need to be put in jail.

Flawed as Ryan's plan may be, at least it attempts to tackle what is known by all to be a real and imminent threat of collapse of the system.

It was highly telling yesterday on MTP. When asked directly what the democrat's plan was all Van Holland could do was say "...but republicans are for subsidies for the oil companies."

That was a very clear admission that there is no democrat plan. So given that it is undisputed that medicare will fail, and in just a few years, the democrats have chosen not to be part of any solution. That is not in the country's best interest.

muffintopfatso,

I wonder what you will say when the Dems do release their budget plan... my guess is that all you repukes will do the same as usual, hate it because it was President Obama's idea, or give Bush credit.

Republicans insisted they'd fix the budget (and the entire economy) if given control of the House of Representatives.

Republicans control the House and therefore ALL budgetary matters.

Their first attempt is an epic fail.

That doesn't relieve Republicans of the responsibility to produce a budget that actually works.

TAGD...see that's what I'm talking about. Snarky and very un-Christian.

I'm thinking that's why you were "left behind" on Saturday.

TAGD

You're so funny, you made me laugh out loud.

I looked up hypocrisy and saw a picture of you and Newt.

You poor soul. No wonder you didn't get raptured.

Great TAGD, the House passed a draconian budget that only makes sense in an Ayn Rand novel, one that they knew in advance would have no support from the other side of the aisle. That's not their job.

Their job is to pass a realistic budget, one that works in the real world, one that has a chance of actually being signed into law.

Instead they passed a budget that destroys Medicare against the wishes of a large majority of the American public. Republicans knew that, so they lied about it and referred to it as "saving Medicare." And we still don't have a budget.

Epic Fail.

I don't need to look up "vacuous" because I know it's a picture of a Hoover.

HA! Thought you could pull the wool over my eyes, but I was too smart for you.

See, that's why people like to read my posts. I"m funny, intelligent, informative and clever. I brighten their day with my humor and my little pearls of wisdom.

You, on the other hand TAGD, are like a hunk of cement tied to the neck of a drowning man.

You are always negative.

I exude a positive outlook with just a little wink of humor.

While you are a black cloud constantly whining and complaining, challenging people to ANSWER THE QUESTION and basically really bringing us all down.

I think that's why you got left behind.

So...I say to you with all sincerity...better luck next rapture.

Obama/Biden 2012

True AMerican: you need to educate yourself about both medicare and why its as popular as it is, and why the Ryan plan will not work. Ryan turns medicare into a block grant to the states...the STATES. If you don't understand what that means, and why it guts medicare as we know it, you can't even begin to understand the discussion or why the R's are having such difficulty with the idea. Yes, they tried to deal with it by exempting those over 65, but much to their bad luck, that's a generation unwilling to sell out others in order to fund the corporate tax rate cuts Ryan says will 'trickle down' into eventual savings. Even RYAN doesn't say his plan touches the deficit because it doesn't (in fact the CBO says it'll ADD substantially to it.)

Regardless of your faulty argument it's entirely possible to disagree with you AND think for myself.

Here's the deal--replacing Medicare as a single-payer, state-directed system with "vouchers" that won't pay for the cost of a private insurance policy, won't keep up with inflation, and will allow seniors to be affected by recission, preexisting conditions clauses, and other offensive insurance company practices DESTROYS MEDICARE. Claiming otherwise is a lie, and the public knows it. That's why the Republican budget is rightly unpopular.

As far as the debt is concerned the GOPTP budget just continues the very policies that got us into this mess;

This graph shows what happened since Oct. 1, 1981, the day Reagan started his first budget. First Reagan increased the debt by $1.9 Trillion (see for yourself). Then Bush brought that to $3.4 Trillion. Then all that started collected interest for the next 17 years, and with compounding that grew to $8.2 Trillion by Sept. 30, 2010. Clinton, Bush II and Obama are not to blame for that interest, and without it, Clinton would have paid off most of the $1 Trillion WWII debt that Reagan scared us with to get elected. And Bush II (and his supply siders) would have run up only $3.8 Trillion — not $6.1T, which is what actually happened under Bush II. (A clear proof of this with document links.)
Before the supply siders, Dems and Repubs brought the debt down relative to our income in 27 out of 35 years. The supply siders (with Reagan and the Bushes) raised it 20 out of 20 years. That's no accident.
The Supply-Sider's Hoax: Bush-I called it voodoo economics (but he got stuck with it). Their "theory" is that cutting taxes for the super rich will encourage them to work so much harder and make so much more money that they will pay more taxes, even though their tax rate went down. Well the voodoo didn't work in 20 out of 20 years. And now they want to try it again. And they've scared America again about the debt. It's easier now that they've run it through the roof.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Uh-oh, looks like TAGD got "raputured".

I wonder at what point the GOP establishment takes Ryan into a room and has a Come to Jesus with him.

He ain't helping.

JC, I don't think they can at this point--the Republican Party itself is divided into Conservatives and extremist Conservatives, and many of the deep-pockets party supporters fall into the latter camp.

Yes, it is. Had trouble posting my comment.

Well we finally have something to agree on Navyboy. This sites been a bit unstable today. You still never answered what you did in the Navy. I was a senior noncom assigned to a Naval Weapons group (Mobile Magazine) My specialty was booby trapping the perimeter once we built our forward deployed armory. Nothing like a lil C4 and Claymore welcome party!

Hi Nash--hope you had a good weekend. I truly think that the Republicans think they have done their job by obstructing anything the President proposes. They must not feel an obligation to propose concrete economic plans (beyond more tax cuts for the wealthiest) since they never do it.

The political pundits are starting to remind me of the weather people on TV----they always make the forecast seem more dire so people stay home and watch TV. I think that is why they keep reminding us that there is a path to Republican victory in 2012.

I like your idea of disbanding Congress---eliminate the middle man and let the corporations run things.

Maybe the so-called "serious" candidates expected the world to end Saturday so there was no need!

The more I hear these candidates speak, the more I understand they live in some alternate universe which ignores the damage THEIR party did for not just 8 years but for the 30 since Reaganomics became their rallying cry.

Nash & Steeler fans...

They are already eliminating the middle men & women. Hell the whole MIDDLE CLASS is on the chopping block for these guys. SCOTUS already said that the all mighty company has spouted a flesh and blood body personifying a voter. WE ALL are under attack from the RIGHT flank and they will lie and plow untruths into the groud just to get their way.

GOP/TP - Welcome to Election 2012. The one in which no one has the courage to run or the gravitas to win against OBAMA's record. His performance has, and will, overwhelm anyone fool enough to run when the TRUTH gets out about where they want to take the country.

Hint: It's out. On everyone running thus far and most of the scardy cats afraid to jump into the fray just yet. That's why we see the panic and frantic search for their knight in shining suit. (I did mis-spell that.)

Same toxic message. Same toxic result. Sad.

Steeler Fan:

I had a productive weekend, so I guess we will call it "good" . . . felt kind of llike "work" . . . lol! Definitely a lot of dramatics in the political media . . . bet they miss the days when they could spend an entire week going through Reverend Wright's sermons! :o)

Jody:

So true Jody . . . I finally understand what they mean by "personal responsibility" . . . they are going to hold US responsible to pay the bill for THEIR mistakes. Classic.

Missy:

Thanks for your comment . . . nice to see some fresh faces around here!

Now you KNOW you are speaking my language . . . in my humble opinion, the "corporate people" own the country at this point, and they are pretty much daring us to do anything about it. . . now if only we could wake the rest of America up . . . maybe we have a chance!

No question about it,FR. Conservatives keep screaming about what a "failure" the Obama administration has been, but the facts demonstrate otherwise. Then again they shrieked for years about the "successes" of the GW Bush administration when he was an unmitigated failure by virtually any measure.

Obama let these thugs keep their tax breaks and still no jobs WTF are you talking about. Look at our world because of the greed on Wall Street Yea it`s not just us suffering it`s everyone. They`re just having fun now watching us suffer and fight among ourselves, they are LTAO at us, because they have so much now they do not need to do anything for us.

Barb.H:

Please do enlighten us as to what you would recommend for the President to do in order to unilaterally take away tax breaks, when the body that is constitutionally in control of that function, Congress, is owned by these same folks.

The "blame Obama" strategy may make you feel better, but it doesn't address the problem.

Obama's actions have hurt the country very much, but we all know how difficult it is to impeach a sitting President. It just won't happen.... we can only hope that for the remainder of his term he continues to seek his roots in other countrys and work on his golf game.... sometimes doing nothing well is better than doing something poorly!

OK miked, please enlighten us which of President Obama's actions constitute impeachable offenses.

John B,

I was responding to another post that wondered why impeachment wasn't on the table... I do not advocate impeachment for the President but here is a list of issues that concern many citizens:

1. Voter irregularities around the country, during the 2008 Presidential Election, involving ACORN and illegal voter registration.

2. Continuing concerns about his actual birth place.

3. His application and subsequent acceptance of a fellowship scholarship as a Foreign Citizen

4. His comments claiming America is no longer a Christian Nation

5. His comments claiming America is a Great Muslim Nation.

6. His seeking to take over and control the banking institution

7. His take over actions of America's auto industry

8. Grave concerns of releasing Classified Military Documentation

9. The impending closure of GITMO

10. His continued apologies to foreign countries about America being a strong Nation.

While none of thiese issues would warrant impeachment, they do ask questions that have yet to be answered clearly...

All things that have been asked and answered...repeatedly. Only the Conservative echo chamber cares about any of these phony controversies at this point.

I realize the radio talkers and Faux News are desperate to keep these lies going, but it's a losing battle.

John B, nice try... most of the questions have not been adequately answered, and those that have still leave doubts.

When backed into a corner, Liberals will respond with name calling and Faux outrage... never with facts.

Miked: geez, where do these wing nuts get this stuff?? I mean none of your post even makes any sense..."concerns lots of people"??? things like impeachment for "impending closure of Gitmo". Well Congress blocked the closure of Gitmo because no one will accept the prisoners..but what about that debate is an impeachable defense? Where do you or anyone get this absurd notion that we're a "christian" nation? HAve you ever read the founding fathers on that notion that we are most decidedly NOT? Ever read Jefferson on the whole issue of religion?? Come on...read something for heaven's sake. Continuing concerns about his birthplace?? By who? Neo nazis and the wing nut birthers who've been discredited so many times they've become the laughing stock of the county...what's "impeachable"? The facct you have a president you don't like?? Come on...did you pass middle school social studies?? Do you know anything about this country and how it works?...out of the woodwork and up from under the rocks they come....scary scary people (luckily irrelevant)

AP, you should read the thread. I never advocated impeachment! That is utter nonsense. I replied to someone else discounting that idea!

Obama said we were no longer a Christian nation, this is true! He also said we were a Muslim nation, this was true but I would suggest we're closer to a Christian nation than Muslim. Our President says many things depending on who he is speaking to... that's why he has a strong propensity to flip flop on issues. That's what a politician does, and he is a very good politician. Other items on the list aren't mine but have been voiced by others many times....

Gitmo was a promise he made, and he still wants to see it closed... despite the setback he received, this also is true.

Again.... when backed into a corner, the liberal will resort not to facts, but name calling and smear tactics. You qualify on both accounts. By the way, I am quite familiar with T.Jefferson and his thoughts on religon, big government, and other issues that this administration seems to have ignored.

The democracy will cease to exist
when you take away from those
who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for
Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the
pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

OK miked, I was going to go easy but you insisted;

1. Voter irregularities around the country, during the 2008 Presidential Election, involving ACORN and illegal voter registration.

There is NO EVIDENCE that significant numbers of people were registered illegally, even less that significant numbers of people actually voted, and NON WHATSOEVER that the Obama campaign had any involvement. Yes, some individuals who were being paid to collect registration cards filled some of them out falsely, but the organizations that collected them REPORTED THE IRREGULARITIES TO AUTHORITIES. http://departments.oxy.edu/uepi/acornstudy/acornstudy.pdf

2. Continuing concerns about his actual birth place.

Ah, you're a Birther. Reason enough to disregard your input because either you're a fraud or nuts, but I'm enjoying answering your other points.

3. His application and subsequent acceptance of a fellowship scholarship as a Foreign Citizen

You aren't even smart enough to check www.snopes.com , are you? http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

4. His comments claiming America is no longer a Christian Nation

America has NEVER been a "Christian Nation." It has ALWAYS been a nation where ALL are free to practice whatever religion speaks to each of us in freedom. Try reading the Bill of Rights sometime.

5. His comments claiming America is a Great Muslim Nation.

America has one of the largest Muslim populations of any country in the world, and please refer back to that First Amendment thing.

6. His seeking to take over and control the banking institution

What are you TALKING about? My guess Glenn Beck or someone of the like has been telling you lies about the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

7. His take over actions of America's auto industry

You mean the auto industry that would have been dead and gone for good without federal assistance and has already paid back most of what it owes the US taxpayer? I'm confident it was a good deal--just as it was when President Reagan bailed out Chrysler.

8. Grave concerns of releasing Classified Military Documentation

Please direct me to the particular corner of the Wingnutosphere where this information resides.

9. The impending closure of GITMO

Blocked by filibuster of Conservative Republicans in the Senate, who for some reason aren't proud enough of their actions to want to claim them.

10. His continued apologies to foreign countries about America being a strong Nation.

More lies from the fevered imaginations of the Conservative echo chamber. Thanks for visiting us from Beckistan, be sure to visit the gift shop on your way out.

AP, opinions are not facts. No matter how hard you are convinced otherwise!

miked,

Your misinformed rant isn't fact. Quite frankly it is a poor attempt at fiction.

Keep sucking the hookah, there, bub - your party must be SO proud of your incessant efforts at relevancy.

You make a good point, Jody----the Republicans seem to have a serious case of amnesia regarding the Bush legacy as well as an inability to admit that the "trickle down" theory of Reagonomics is flawed. I don't see them admitting that they are wrong, though----where does it leave them if they do?

Steeler Fan, I don't think it's amnesia nearly so much as an attempt to create an alternate reality. Karl Rove said they create their own reality, apparently much of the Conservative world is still trying to do exactly that. It isn't working, people are smarter than that as witnessed by widespread disapproval of the Republican budget.

They don't have amnesia. They are just stuborn. They will not compromise. They are delusional and believe their own lies willfully. Have for years. The first sign I saw of this uncaring vein of stubbornness was when Mr. Raygun refused to ever utter the word AIDS even when his & Nancy's lifelong friend Rock Hudson lay dying.

Quite a different response than to the scourge of Legionaire's Disease a few years before. It was an omen of things to come from the people who surrounded the Rayguns. Yes, Nancy screaming "JUST SAY NO!" was part of the show but the true puppets were the neocons. No treatment support for what to do after you've had the courage to say "No". (shades of W's lack of budgeting and 'Compassionate Conservatism' prowess).

He took his cue to run 2 wars and prescription drug coverage for seniors off the books from Daniels; all to continue to create this crisis we are in NOW. No wonder he won't run. His twice wife said NO! She has learned the Republican answer to everything well.

Thanks for the post, Jody.

Steele ... It leaves them holding the proverbial bag! A very uncomfortable spot for Righties. They do not know who to give it to.

Jody, can you back up those comments with facts? :)

Jody may be aware, miked, but these are the facts;

From Reagan's first speech as President: "A trillion dollars would be a stack of thousand-dollar bills 67 miles high. The interest on the public debt this year we know will be over $90 billion, and unless we change the proposed spending for the fiscal year beginning October 1st, ..."

Well he changed it all right, and when he left office the stack of $1000 bills was 191 miles high.
So what did Reagan tell us about calculating his debt? (1) Start on October 1, 1981, and (2) Don't forget the interest costs of the debt.
October 1, 1981 is the beginning of his first budget year (fiscal year). He's right. He is not responsible for Carter's last budget year that runs until Oct. 1. But Reagan is responsible for his own last budget year, which ran until Sept. 30 1989. That's eight years, which is right for two terms. Reagan was right and fair about this, and that's what the spreadsheet above does.
And, like he said, the interest on the debt matters. And since he and Bush-I left us $3.4 Trillion of extra debt when Bush-I's last budget year ended on Sept. 30, 1993, that debt started collecting interest, and it still is. Clinton, G.W. Bush and Obama are not responsible for that interest. So the spreadsheet actually over-states G.W. Bushes debt because quite a bit of that was interest on the Reagan-Bush-I debt. But shifting that responsibility to Reagan-Bush (as the graph shows) does not affect our total for Reagan and the Bushes.
G.W. Bush took control of the budget on Oct. 1, 2001, when the debt was $5.8 Trillion and his last budget year ended Oct. 1, 2009, with the debt at $11.9 Trillion. During that last year, Obama got a stimulus bill passed, but that's the only significant change he was able to make in federal spending. (You can see it subtracted above.) Spending the stimulus money was slow, so only $36 Billion ($0.036 Trillion) contributed to Bush's deficits. So instead of raising the debt $6.10 Trillion, he only raised it $6.06 Trillion.
About $0.2 Trillion is still left from WWII, and Obama has $1.25 Trillion that's his. Of course half of that is from the Bush-II tax cuts and most of the rest is because of the Great Recession.

http://zfacts.com/p/1170.html

But how do you see Huntsman getting through the primaries with all those pictures of him standing next to Barack Obama?

Which Republican was it who thought we didn't need FEMA any more? I expect the people in Joplin this morning are glad it is there!

Frank---would be interested to hear your thoughts on Daniels' role in the Bush administration as its budget director. Could you have gotten past that to support him? Do you believe the family issue is why he isn't running or is it just the stated reason?

Does it trouble that Huntsman was a member of the Obama administration and would now be running against the President?

Hi Steeler Fan and Houston!...

You both asked a similar question, so I'll address that. I am in no way, shape, or form bothered by Huntsman being a former member of the Obama Administration. To me, that adds to his appeal in a general election campaign...he can state that he is bipartisan...a trait I personally find very important in a candidate. Now of course, he has to get through the primary, and yes, other candidates will surely be throwing pictures of him and President Obama around. And many of the farther right voters will be bothered by it. If I'm Huntsman, I play up the electability issue as well as the fact that he is probably the most well-versed candidate on the foreign policy front...that could be important with all that is going on in the Middle East these days. He's gotta walk a fine line...because if he tries to do what so many candidates are doing, which is disavowing their past, it looks like pandering.

I am concerned that the right flank of the party will keep him out...they've done an outstanding job of getting rid of good candidates these days. Heck, a Tea Party candidate is about to cost us a seat in New York, where a Dem may win with less than 40% of the vote.

Steeler Fan...you asked about Daniels' role in the Bush Administration. I'll be honest...most of what I know about him and have heard about him centers around his role as governor of Indiana. His role as budget director in the early Bush administration certainly wouldn't help his fiscally conservative credentials. But, it sounds as though he may have beefed those up in Indiana. Anyway, as for his stated reason, I'm inclined to think that his wife REALLY didn't want him running. From all accounts that period in their lives where he raised the girls on his own reflects poorly upon her and would certainly be difficult for her as well as the other family that was hurt. I'm inclined to believe him here, but I certainly don't know for sure.

Take care!

You raise the problem your party is facing everywhere, Frank---the role of the most conservatives in the primaries versus the moderates/independents in the general elections. A question of how much power the ultra-conservatives have and how rigid their ideology---do they want to be pure or in power?

But how do you see Huntsman getting through the primaries with all those pictures of him standing next to Barack Obama?

Same way Barack Obama is going have to explain how he extended the Bush Tax rates at a time the deficit was over $1T but will raise taxes once he's no longer able to be re-elected.

Alan, NJ

Anyone with a half a brain knows why President Obama extended the Bush Tax cuts. He did so because the Republicans Tea Party held the unemployment extension benefits and the people receiving then as hostage.

The bottom line, extend the tax cuts or we kill the unemployment extension benefits.

So, this is an old bull sh! t talking lie, being throw out to the base of people stuck on stupid.

"Grimey"

Don't you think Huntsman is really priming for 2016? There will likely be a lot of rebuilding the GOP if the right wing ever loosens its' grasp. Also, what do you think of the possibility of a right wing 3rd party candidate launching a run at the last minute as an uindependaent or even a Libertarian?

Same way Barack Obama is going have to explain how he extended the Bush Tax rates

This same tired response? Again? Really?

Anyone with a half a brain knows why President Obama extended the Bush Tax cuts. He did so because the Republicans Tea Party held the unemployment extension benefits and the people receiving then as hostage.

You may fall for this line because you are a moron who if you had another neuron it would be lonely.

You believe that the "best politician in a generation" couldn't even negotiate a tax increase for the top 2%? He couldn't peel one Republican senator because that's all he needed.

However, others with more intelligence can see that this it was a calculated political ploy to inject another $800B in stimulus into the economy in the hope that unemployment would be falling right around 2012. Then, when safely re-elected Barack Obama can call for the higher taxes he has always advocated to push his "wealth-spreading" agenda. A very cynical act that put party and self before country.

Of COURSE the same tired response, Fielden. They have NOTHING that works with the public outside the most rabid, radical Conservative base so they have no choice but to double down on tired narratives. EVERYONE knows it was a Republican filibuster that forced extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest among us...yet somehow there's nothing about that which makes them proud enough to take credit for it.

Alan: well if that's your theory than I guess you're going to have a heck of a difficult time through Obama's second term. (but dn't let the facts get in the way...at least you can continue the fiction that you're the ONLY one who understands the REAL conspiracy).

Ryan has already lost. All he's done is get the R's on record for dismantling medicare and social security to secure further corporate tax cuts. With that kind of a friend, the R's don't need any more enemies.

Perry cannot be trusted to keep his word or promises, so it would be no surprise if he were to run for the presidency.

Could be, unless he decides to secede from the Union as he has threatened. I don't think the Constitution allows you to run for president of the United States if you're the leader of a hostile foreign power.

Rush Limbaugh says Perry is "lurking in the wings....waiting to light things up and he (Perry) has great hair." While Limbaugh and others may see Perry as their latest "new hope", all the talk of seceding and his far right agenda will only appeal to the far right. Therein lies the problem for all the Teapublican candidates, to win the primary, they must claim the extremist views as theirs, it makes them perpetual flip-floppers which will not sit well with the rest of voters.

Huntsman made one error already; he is on board with the Ryan Budget to kill medicare to pay for more tax cuts for the richest 2% and tax breaks for big oil and other commodities as well as tax breaks for businesses which ship jobs overseas. Personally, Huntsman would be a solid presidential candidate but to be viable in 2012, he must align himself with the extreme right of the party. Most voters are not extreme right, just as they are not extreme left. Huntsman in 2012 would be better served to remain true to his previoius convictions without pandering; thereby setting himself up as a serious candidate in 2016. The GOPTP is suffering an identity crisis, no one knows the outcome but extremism never ultimately wins.

If the GOP is to survive, it must find its way back to what it was prior to Reagan; the country cannot survive with their current ideology and remain "exceptional" let alone a super power. We only need to look at North Korea to see that when a nation spends most of its money on military might, that country starves itself.

Perry has directly brought about a huge crisis in our educational system; every district will be underfunded due to state budget cuts to education. This was predicted when Perry urged passage of steep cuts to property taxes (the main source of funding for education here) in 2005. He has refused to use rainy day funds (or very little) to help blunt the pain for individual districts. Teachers, administrators, and support staff and being laid off by the hundreds. Just wonderful for our kids, our economy, our future!

Recently, it came to light that revenues from sales taxes and high oil prices were better than expected, and the "rainy day fund" has grown to almost $10 billion. But Perry STILL does not want to use any of the funds to help districts. Ironically, to try to maintain basic services to students, cities will have to RAISE property taxes. I would say that Perry has a poor record to run on, and he is too tied to Bush to be electable. I'm one Texan (and I know lots of others) who has never voted for Perry and never will!

Rick Perry doesn't have a snowballs chance in H-E-double hockey sticks, maybe if he had run years ago, but not now, now that he's coming to the end of his term, he's all about him and starting to throw Texas under the bus, he needs to go away.

Bethie,

Somehow, I think that with Perry's and the Tea Party's disrespect for teachers and funding education their favorite song must be Pink Floyd -The Wall.

"We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control. Teachers leave those kids alone!"

The good news is that the state Senate has finally convinced the house to use $4 billion in Rainy day funds. What will Perry sign is the next big question.

Ricky certainly fits the lunacy paradigm. He is all stand, model and comb. A vacuous puppet like Dubya without the varnish. A player to the far right or anyone who will pay attention or pay the fee. Accountability? Not so much. The hand he has played in the just finishing sessions in Austin will leave a very visable stain on Texas even IF he relents and spends the 'rainy day' fund. No wonder he wants to RUN. Oh, he does NOT have OBAMA Gob'mint funds to shore up that budget this year like last but he won't tell you that.

Yep, he has oily cheerleaders. The same ones who brought us Bush Redux!

Missy - Even if a portion of the Rainy Day fund is used, the inadequacy for this bienium not withstanding, the problem will not be solved. Texas will continue to have fiscal problems whether it is led by a Republican or a Democrat.

The only solution is to accept some cuts, but new revenue must be brought in. State personal income taxes need to be implemented. The state's entire financial structure and revenue generating system is not sufficient. No politician Democrat included will suggest this solution.

Alan, NJ

As usual you get the prize for being wrong. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the games these Republican-Tea Party bast@rds are playing with the poor and middle class.

President Obama has done a great job in attempting to correct the massage damage done by President Bush during his 8 years in office.

So, we are looking forward to 2012, and seeing the large number of Republicans-Tea People that well be sent home. Then, maybe we can get the tax levels back to where they should be.

And now we look forward to the end of the world in 2012 based on the idea the Mayan calender stops.

Whew - what a relief! Looks like I can still use that bumper sticker I just got that says "Sarah Palin in 2012 - The World's Going To End Then Anyway".....

JoAnne,

Where can I get that bumper sticker? I gotta have one, it will be the perfect compliment to my "Republicans for Voldemort" bumpter sticker.

Skip -

Hmmm, can I answer that without being collapsed for advertising? Okay, let's try this......I don't work for them, have no financial stake in them, and I'm not in any way, shape, or form endorsing them or implying that either you or anyone else reading this should ever buy a single thing from them.....but I myself just happen to have gotten a couple of really cool bumper stickers, t-shirts, etc from a place whose first name is northern and their second name is sun. Unless you intend to find them online, in which case it's all one word followed by .com.......but you didn't hear that from me, okay? :)

Way to go JoAnne, I'll NOT IN ANY WAY check them out.

The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) is a book by Arthur Koestler, which advances the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a Turkic people. Koestler's hypothesis is that the Khazars converted to Judaism in the 8th century, and migrated westwards into Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe

There are supporters of the false hypothesis that all present-day Jews are not of Israelite origin but Khazars, and they found their claim in the fact that many Khazars adopted Judaism as their belief. Even if such assertion be true for a large number of Jews (which is not), this may be said exclusively of the Ashkenazim, which is only one of the ethnic branches of the Jewish nation. Actually, nobody can ascribe Khazar origin to the Sephardi, Teymani, Mizrachi, Bukharan, Indian, Ethiopic and all the other branches, that constitute the majority of the Jewish population and are undoubtedly of Semitic, Israelite origin. Therefore, whoever tries to undermine the Jewish right on Eretz Yisrael has failed the goal since the beginning: even if none of the Ashkenazim be a true Jew, all the non-Ashkenazim Jews are enough to claim the Land of Israel as their homeland, with Yerushalaym as their capital.

Ira Lapin,

A very detailed history and explanation of the many negotiations that have been discussed by the two groups. Thank you.

I am for a two state solution but like you I hope that a fair playing field be realized. Realistic goals and borders must be proposed and not fanciful ideas that only one party can agree to. Concerning the negotiations, first and foremost, it is hard to negotiate with a entity when a portion of that entity is sworn to your destruction. For all of Israel's concessions, including the relinquishment of Gaza which included forcibly removing their own settlers, I have seen little good will from Fatah or Hamas. Now that those groups have entered into a unity governing authority, I see them as one and the same.

Many people don't understand all that is entailed in the proposals. This includes Presidentail candidates. I had to laugh when Herman Cain, a republican said that the Palestinians should have the right of return. Anyone who knows anything about the negotiations would know that this is something Israel can not accept - right of return to Israel proper. It is clearly one of the big objections from Israel as Palestinian return would lead to a very non-Jewish state. After the Fox host asked the questions, the commentator tried to coach Cain so he would realize that what he was proposing was against his own talking points (Pro Israeli). You could clearly see that Cain didn't know what he was talking about.

I was also disturbed on Friday that so many partisans clearly jumped on the band wagon that Obama's speech and border solutions were the answer. Again, I would suggest that some of them didn't know what they were talking about. Regarding Obama's speech, I think that Obama's proposal was naive. Although it was hard to hear Netanyahu give the Pres. a live history lesson at the White House, what did Obama expect after he floated his ideas during a worldwide broadcasted speech.

Some posters here said, Obama's proposal was the first step in negotiations, but based on Bibi's utter rejection of it I see it very differently. Although I agree that some bash Obama for any reason, others support him for any reason.

Beverly in Chicago,

Why do you try to delegitimize the ancestry of the current Jews living in Israel? I don't see why that was a fitting response to Ira's history of Israeli/Palestinian peace proposals.

Yellowdog-Mark D
Beverly in Chicago,

Why do you try to delegitimize the ancestry of the current Jews living in Israel? I don't see why that was a fitting response to Ira's history of Israeli/Palestinian peace proposals.

Beverly in Chicago,

I am not arguing that after Jews were dispersed from the Holy Land in the Diaspora, that there were not some Jewish converts to enter Europe. However, your claim that ALL eastern European Jews are based more on a converted Turkish people in lieu of ancestoral Jews is simply not believable.

I am not an expert on this subject and have not read a book about Jewish DNA. However, I just wonder why this is so important to you?

You forget the Sephardic Jews merchants based in Spain had ties to Israel during Solomon's reign. A reign that has historical proof in corroborating ancient texts other than the bible.

While most everyone lauds the year 1492 as the supposed discovery of America; after the Spanish reconquest from the Moors, Sephardic Jews see that year as the Spanish "Edit of Expulsion". The law enacted the Spanish Inquisition that required that all Jews convert to Catholicism or face the pain of torture and death.

In fact many of the conquistadores and later settlers of New Spain (Mexico) were called Marranos, Jews who still secretly kept their faith but left Spain for freedom in Mexico. They often left all the fortune and money behind. Unfortunately the Inquisition followed them to Mexico but many still kept their faith. Again, just because they left their ancestral home doesn't mean that they didnt' still have a Jewish lineage or keep their faith.

This issue is important to me because, my great grandmother was Jewish, her son, my grandfather was Jewish. He was almost not born and I would not be here but by the grace of God. When she became pregnant and it became known to her husband that she was Jewish, she was shunned and forced to flee with her family across the Rio Grande leaving all their property behind. While a mitigating factor was that the Mexican Revolution 1910 - 17 was going on with revolutionaires confiscating haciendas and land, a major fact in their expulsion was because they were Jewish.

What you fail to realize is that Jews throughtout history whether it is in the Middle East, Europe or Latin America have always been attacked and scapegoated. They have had to preserve and withstand so much.

A good book about this subject is "Sephardic Jews in New Spain." I read it long ago, loaned from my Dad, I can't remember the Author. However, these are my family facts, my story. Again I ask why is it so important to you to try to delegitamize people.?

Yellowdog-Mark D
Beverly in Chicago,

I am not arguing that after Jews were dispersed from the Holy Land in the Diaspora, that there were not some Jewish converts to enter Europe. However, your claim that ALL eastern European Jews are based more on a converted Turkish people in lieu of ancestoral Jews is simply not believable

Perhaps, you didn't read my post throughly. I spoke of the intermarriage which gave validty to some Jewish heritage.
I read those horrible things about Arthur Koestler this AM which is not good. However, those claims still do not negate the facts.

Just saying maybe the media got it wrong.

To the post written by Beverly in Chicago...

To her friends...

You need to tell her to stop posting quotes from a Holocaust deniers and rabid racist. Iran is sworn to the destruction of Israel.
You know that.

I will ignore her ignorance as much as it upsets me but she is exposing herself as to what she is, not horribly misinformed as I have stated, but something horribly worse.

Please make her stop before, I hope FR does.

Ever wonder Ira, if the Bush 43 administration had actively continued to work on the Israel/Palestine problem and build upon what Clinton had done, the Obama administration might not have had to start over.

I support Israel but as I have grown older, I also recognize they are sometimes part of their own problem. The 1967 borders should be the basis for negotiation because it represents what the world determined the state of Israel would be. I also support a Palestinian state but they are sometimes part of their own problem. The point is that both sides must be dragged to the table kicking and screaming to have any hope for either to succeed let alone survive.

Jody, Iowa

Two points..

First. The idea of Israel returning to its 1967 borders is a Saudi Arabian proposal adopted and ratified by Arab League members. This is NOT a US initiative. The US has adopted it as a basis for seeking peace.

Second. This is not a "world resolution". The United Nations Security Council Resolution 242-- Resolution 242, passed unanimously by the Security Council in the wake of Israel's 1967 victory, and contemplated some territorial adjustments necessary to assure Israel's security against future attacks. It also contemplated that Israel would hold onto the Western Wall, the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem and the access roads to Hebrew University, without the need for any land swaps. Land swaps would only be required to make up for any areas beyond those contemplated by Resolution 242? The Obama formulation would seem to require land swaps even for the Western Wall.

I'm NOT against a Two State Solution, in fact I'm totally for it. My quarrel is that Israel must go back to 1t's pre- 1967 borders which were so indefensible they were attacked 3 different times, 1948, 1967 and 1973 over these same borders. The old borders are indefensible and need to be adjusted to ensure Israeli sovereignty.

beave and fisty will disappear when Obama loses his reelection ala jimmy carter, one and done.

Naw, dontgiveme, Feisty wouldn't have anything to occupy her day other than rant about the conservatives, or anyone with a differing view of hers.

After all, what else can she do after hearing her rants? What a bore she must be in actual life.

So says safecracker, who spends his time stewing about Feisty.

Nope Dawing,

I can care less about Feisty. Just stating a factual opinion......being a libbie today. I actually spend my time working to move into that top 1% range the ProgressiveDemocrats attempt to have pay for everything!

But I do read Feisty's posts for a laugh though. she's so funny with her self-proclaimed importance.

As he continues his daily stalking of Feisty. Apparently, safecracker, who purports to know all about computers cannot find the "ignore author" flag.

Nope NewDay,

Where did I indicate that I purport to know all about computers? Why you silly libbie, are you attempting to change my words to satisfy your desire?

I know about the "ignore author" flag, but I continue to read Feisty and Bev for the laughs. Now why is that an issue for you?

Ira, the President said that the pre-1967 borders should be considered ALONG WITH land "swaps", not concessions. Other presidents have said exactly the same thing--Bush, Carter, Clinton, Johnson. So how is Obama a naive appeaser?

The support I have for Israel is rooted in the hope that they will be able someday to live with greater safety and security. I personally don't see how people would want to move into neighborhoods that are in contested areas and that are subject to attacks from Palestineans angry over the expanding settlements. Why would you choose to put your children in harm's way? It doesn't seem that they are very "free" where they live--when they don't have peace.

bethie in texas..

I point you to the response I posted to Jody, Iowa.

OK--but again, I take issue with you calling the President an "appeaser". Did you feel the same way about the other Presidents (including Bush 43) who called for very similar plans? The point is to get both countries some lands that they are happy with and can live with. Maybe this is impossible. Would you want to live in that kind of situation? How can current situation be good for Jewish families? (not to mention Palestinean ones) You didn't address that point in your post to Jodi.

bethie in texas..

Couple of points..

I am for a Two State Solution but against the Obama formulation.

Would I want to live like that, absolutely not, but I also would not want to trade my safety and my countries safety for an unenforceable peace agreement. Would you accept a peace agreement with Al- Qaeda under good faith conditions?

On Israels reluctance to cede the land, I refer you to this:

In July 2000, U.S. President Bill Clinton convened a peace summit between Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Barak offered the Palestinian leader approximately 95% of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, as well as Palestinian sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and that 69 Jewish settlements (which comprise 85% of the West Bank's Jewish settlers) would be ceded to Israel. He also proposed "temporary Israeli control" indefinitely over another 10% of the West Bank territory—an area including many more Jewish settlements. The remaining area would be under Palestinian control

Arafat rejected this offer. President Clinton reportedly requested that Arafat make a counter-offer, but he proposed none. A US spokesman has said that "never, in the negotiations between us and the Palestinians, was there a Palestinian counterproposal."

No tenable solution was crafted which would satisfy both Israeli and Palestinian demands, even under intense U.S. pressure. Clinton blamed Arafat for the failure of the Camp David Summit.

It strikes me that Obama is a lot like Chamberlin. He is an appeaser, a compromiser and a bit naïve.

Sorry, but that's bull crap. The president that took out Osama Bin Laden is not an appeaser. However, Obama does believe in compromise, which Obama haters believe is a dirty word.

There are two side in the Israel-Palestine dispute. Both sides share the blame for the current mess there. But I really get tired of anyone who dares to criticize Israel is an appeaser, or worse, an "anti-semite." What gets me most is that, since there are many Jews who criticize Israel's treatment of Palestinians, the ultra-right in the US and Israel attack them as "self hating Jews." What a crock.

When did this thread change to the jewish-palestinian civil war?

Mozoltov and shekka-lekka-ding-dong.

This thread is about how Mitch Daniels couldn't win the election based strictly on his alien looking head.

NoTea4Me-2605757
When did this thread change to the jewish-palestinian civil war?

This thread is about how Mitch Daniels couldn't win the election based strictly on his alien looking head.

This Ira person is obsessed.

Start with Frriday, Saturday and today; in fact it's in other threads today. you'll this person has called me Anti-Semtic simply because I mentioned historical facts and how and why I think the President is correct. At least that's how I see it.

He will and take the 11 million dollars of gullible people's money with him.

Apparently being a FALSE prophet is quite profitable,...

and the sheep go, "BAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAA" Loosely translated I think it means, "Can I get a Witness?"

Misinformation and ignorance and willful deception about something so important to one's identity is indeed painful. I am pleased to see you take the time to set the record straight. You may be able to empathize with supporters of the President and understand why it has been so frustrating to see people spread rumors and lies about Obama's birth, faith, education, etc. And even when FACTS and PROOF are provided, people willfully choose to ignore them. Just because they want to believe the lies that fit their narrative.

Ira your posts are always well written, respectful and supported by researched facts. Unfortunately other posters on this site would rather have a knee jerk reaction and post information without research just because they think it supports their view point. Having a brother who is a newspaper editor, I know readers needs to take into account the background of the writer as their bias can color their version of facts . Sir, we would all do well to follow your lead.

Some in this country continue to believe that African Americans are inferior based on similar nonsense--that doesn't make it true. Nor does it mean that posting historical information bringing said information to the attention of others makes one anti- or pro- anything. Some topics are called "hot button" for a reason; they bring out passion and often results in misunderstanding of intent, accusations, assumptions based on personal view and so on.

bethie in texas..

You clearly have not read my posts prior to this topic.

I have been a fervent Obama supporter throughout. Ask the conservatives here whom I've had heated political discussions with. One called me left of center. We're still friends and I know they and I look forward to even more "discussions.

Jody, Iowa

Jody, Iowa

Some in this country continue to believe that African Americans are inferior based on similar nonsense--that doesn't make it true. Nor does it mean that posting historical information bringing said information to the attention of others makes one anti- or pro- anything. Some topics are called "hot button" for a reason; they bring out passion and often results in misunderstanding of intent, accusations and so on.

.......................................................................

So you mean stuff like Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya is just misinformation we can ignore as a hot button issue. Misinformation that is intended to stir up racial hatred must always be addressed and answered. That's why Obama produce a long form birth certificate. That's why cited the historical inaccuracies in the post. Even after that, today the poster is quoting Ahmadinejad, a Holocaust denier and man who has publicly stated that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth as support for her "facts". That's way beyond misinformation. Call it what it is.

Ira, I am beginning to think that some people are brainwashed into believing lies. Even when Obama produced the long form BC, Trump said he "hoped" it was authentic. People who don't want to accept Obama's citizenship will insist that the long form recently shown is a fake or whatever. Why they find it easier to believe what's NOT there than what IS there is beyond me.

I also meant to say that I empathize with you even though I am not Jewish. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for you when people post misinformation about your heritage with manufactured "facts" and questionable links. Again, I applaud you for hanging in the fight and shedding light on the situation. It has been very informative for me. :)

No, Ira that is NOT what I said! Read it again. I also did NOT say to ignore hot button issues; they are important to discuss. I merely pointed out that hot button issues get clouded during the discussion by both sides making assumptions and accusations about what a person posts based on their own personal views or interpretation of intent--something we all do. Moving on....

Jody, Iowa..

Sorry if I misunderstood you. When the poster quoted Ahmadinejad, a Holocaust denier and man who has publicly stated that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth as support for her "facts", well, to me that went beyond misinformation.

Again. sorry if I misunderstood you.

Hey Ira,

Why dont you have the jews and palestinians settle it by fist fight?

The average American could really care less. We have our own problems to solve here.

ESPECIALLY since the teapublicans have decided to rape our entitlements.

btw....you're way behind on the entitlements issue.....NO ONE who understands the problems associated with Medicare is buying that argument anymore.....NOT EVEN SENIOR CITIZENS!

I guess you don't watch the news. Seniors have been protesting loudly againt Ryan's plan.

And this thread isn't about the jews and palestinians, there are other threads for that.

True American gets Disabled

NoTea.....you do realize that "seniors" will not be affected by the Ryan Plan, don't you?......it only affects people over 54 years old.......so, seniors have no need to protest.....unless they listen to the lying liberal media outlets that tells them it "kills granny"

Oh the contrary you don't realize yes, it will. The plan forces future seniors into a more expensive private plan in 2022, doubling the cost to seniors. The Republican budget plan lowers federal Medicare costs by shifting more of the burden on to seniors. That burden becomes larger over time since the value of the voucher does not keep pace with the increase in health care costs.

True American: you are anything but--You have swallowed that "we're so broke" mantra hook, line and sinker clearly without having any notion of what you've swallowed. You actually are ignorant enough to think this plan to gut medicare is something new? (George Bush the first called this idea --even old by then--"voodoo economics"--the "trickle down theory") Even Ryan admits his budget plan will INCREASE the deficit because he funnels savings from medicare into corporate tax cuts. Your post shows you obviously don't even know the meaning of demogoguery.

fake controversy as they always do in such weeks.

You mean like it's costing U.S. tax payers; $200 BILLION dollars a day?

That one is one of my fave's! ;o)

Okay, I think it was actually "only" $200 million, not billion, but that doesn't make it any less fake of a non-troversy. Along those same lines, I'm amazed at the President having the courage to visit England at all, since those same impeccable sources were also reporting not too many weeks ago that all of England was up in arms and calling for his head because of him "selling their nuclear secrets to the Russians". It's why he wasn't invited to the wedding, right? But don't worry, Mr. President - if they do throw you in the Tower, Seal Team 6 is standing by to come get you out!

Oh, well.....does anyone know if he'll be having a private shindig with Sir Paul McCartney while he's there? :)

Wasn't there also a "non-troversy" over his returning a bust of Churchill or something? Gifts to the Queen?

I find it refreshing for our President to travel overseas and be greeted by excited crowds waving American flags.

Steeler Fan -

Thanks, I'd forgotten about that one - the bust that had been LOANED to President Bush by Tony Blair after 9/11 that was always intended to be returned to them.

Oh, gosh, and let's not forget that Michelle Obama once actually put her arm around the Queen.

Off with their heads!

Ira Lapin
Bev in Chicago...

The DNA of Abraham's Children

First of all, you brought it up again. I responded because I knew you have been attacking me since last week. Second of all, if you just read you'll see I did post that the DNA did indicate Jewish linage. I also wrote Arthur Koestler, himself, is Jewish and has been changelled.

The Thirteenth Tribe;

In the book, Koestler advances the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a Turkic people originating in and populating an empire north of and between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea. Koestler's hypothesis is that the Khazars converted to Judaism in the 8th century, and migrated westwards into current Eastern Europe (primarily Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Hungary and Germany) in the 12th and 13th centuries when the Khazar Empire was collapsing. At the end of the book's last chapter, Koestler summarizes its content and his intentions as follows: "In Part One of this book I have attempted to trace the history of the Khazar Empire based on the scant existing sources. In Part Two, Chapters V-VII, I have compiled the historical evidence which indicates that the bulk of Eastern Jewry — and hence of world Jewry — is of Khazar-Turkish, rather than Semitic, origin. In the last chapter I have tried to show that the evidence from anthropology concurs with history in refuting the popular belief in a Jewish race descended from the biblical tribe."

[edit] Sources

Mattias Gardell writes that Koestler's thesis is "partly based on amateur anthropology",^[1] and its scientific arguments come from The Myth of a Jewish Race (1975) by Raphael Patai and his daughter Jennifer.^[2] It also relies on the work of earlier historians, particularly Russian-Israeli historian Abraham Poliak's Hebrew book Khazaria: Toledot mamlakhah yehudit (1951),^[3][4] and the History of the Jewish Khazars (1954) by Douglas Morton Dunlop, the author who Koestler himself describes as a main source.^[5] Neil McInnes writes that Dunlop was, however, "much more tentative" in his conclusions, as were other historians of Khazars, including Peter Golden and Moses Shulvass.^[5] Golden himself described the book as "controversial", stating it contained "sweeping claims of Khazar legacy and influence".^[6]

[edit] Koestler's reason for writing it

Koestler biographer Michael Scammell writes that Koestler told French biologist Pierre Debray-Ritzen he "was convinced that if he could prove that the bulk of Eastern European Jews (the ancestors of today's Ashkenazim) were descended from the Khazars, the racial basis for anti-Semitism would be removed and anti-Semitism itself could disappear".^[3] According to George Urban, Koestler's desire to connect Ashkenazi Jews with Khazars was "based on a tacit belief that the intellectual brilliance of and international influence of Hungarians and Jews, especially Hungarian Jews or Jewish-Hungarians, was due to some unexplained but clearly ancient affinity between the two peoples".^[7]

snip;

In the Arab world the theory espoused in Koestler's book was adopted by persons who argued that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of the Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists.^[10] The Saudi Arabian delegate to the United Nations argued that Koestler's theory "negated Israel's right to exist".^[11] Koestler did not see alleged Khazar ancestry as diminishing the claim of Jews to Israel, which he felt was based on the United Nations mandate and not on Biblical covenants or genetic inheritance.^[1][12] In his view, "[t]he problem of the Khazar infusion a thousand years ago... is irrelevant to modern Israel."^[12]

Koestler's book was praised by the neo-Nazi magazine The Thunderbolt as "the political bombshell of the century",^[11] and it was enthusiastically supported by followers of the Christian Identity movement.^[1][13] According to Jeffery Kaplan, The Thirteenth Tribe was "Identity's primary source for the Khazar theory"; they felt Koestler's book confirmed their own beliefs regarding Jews,^[12][14] and sold it "through their mail order services".^[12] Goldstein writes that "... Koestler and the Khazar theory he advanced lives on in the fever swamps of the white nationalist movement".^[15] Michael Barkun writes that Koestler was apparently "either unaware of or oblivious to the use anti-Semites had made of the Khazar theory since its introduction at the turn of the century."^[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe

Hard to believe some people actually spent every dime of their savings, quit their jobs, etc. It really is sad that some so willingly accept what a false profit claims.

The guy is rolling in (Pizza) dough!

You mean this Herman Cain & his vast experience on middle east policy? lol

The Sarah Palin lite?

But this morning on Fox News Sunday, Cain showed just how limited his understanding is of the Middle East peace process. Asked by host Chris Wallace what he would be prepared to offer Palestinians as part of a deal, Cain responded, “Nothing.” Just moments later, Cain was dazed and confused when Wallace referenced the issue of “right of return” of Palestinian refugees:

WALLACE: Where do you stand on the right of return?

CAIN: The right of return? [pause] The right of return?

WALLACE: The Palestinian right of return.

CAIN: That’s something that should be negotiated. That’s something that should be negotiated.

Wallace then helpfully offered Cain a definition of “right of return” — “Palestinian refugees, the people that were kicked out of the land in 1948, should be able to or should have any right to return to Israeli land.” Cain again showed his lack of knowledge, veering completely off his pro-Likud script. “I don’t think they have a big problem with people returning,” Cain said. Watch it:

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/22/herman-cain-right-of-return/

GOD help us all...

not to mention he wants to implement a 23% sales tax, getting rid of the federal tax, and being in bed with the FED, it's just not going to happen.

Scott Brown earlier this month fully supported the Ryan Budget--only after the fall out that appeared during the 2-week break did Brown change his mind. He's going to have a tough time in 2012, wouldn't be surprised if he gets a primary challenge.

you don't understand: they WELCOME the label "extremist" . Just don't call them a moderate or you'll really have a fight on your hands.

I think it was Chris Brown who joked the mrorning after the election that the headlines should have read, "Black man elected to the worst job in America".